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| 00:58.24 | *** topic/#nslu2-linux is nslu2-linux developer channel - use #nslu2-general for end-user questions |
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| 07:41.25 | sime | Does a standard slug handle read/write to NTFS... if so, does it mount the ntfs drive some how through samba ? |
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| 08:35.12 | rwhitby | sime: yes and yes |
| 08:35.58 | rwhitby | although it is reported to not be 100% stable |
| 08:39.08 | sime | rwhitby, ic, then do the third party firmwares do similar ? |
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| 09:12.14 | rwhitby | sime: Unslung uses the vendor NTFS kernel module directly, so it has the same stability. |
| 09:12.35 | rwhitby | SlugOS and Debian have standard Linux 2.6.x kernel NTFS support. |
| 09:15.06 | blaster8 | i.e. r/o (with very limited r/w) |
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| 12:14.41 | CIA-8 | 03rwhitby * r627 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.19/05-mtdpart-redboot-partition-truncate.patch: Added the description and signed off - this one has been accepted upstream |
| 12:15.28 | CIA-8 | 03rwhitby * r628 10kernel/trunk/ (8 files in 2 dirs): Additional configuration files for apex on different devices |
| 12:26.12 | NAiL | ~seen philpem |
| 12:26.29 | jbot | philpem <n=NotQuite@executor.castlecore.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #classiccmp, 72d 14h 8m 8s ago, saying: 'nyahaha, behold vmware and virtual network interfaces, the malware reverser's friends!'. |
| 12:30.20 | *** join/#nslu2-linux mial (n=Semionsi@shound.org) |
| 12:30.27 | mial | hello |
| 12:30.52 | NAiL | morning |
| 12:35.06 | mial | does someone know how to use the nslu2's beeper ? |
| 12:35.25 | mial | I found a module, ixp4xx-beeper, loaded it, but don't know how to use it |
| 12:35.27 | NAiL | what firmware are you running? |
| 12:35.34 | NAiL | Try "beep" |
| 12:35.35 | mial | debian |
| 12:35.49 | mial | semial@anaelle:~$ beep |
| 12:35.50 | mial | -bash: beep: command not found |
| 12:36.02 | NAiL | apt-cache search nslu2 |
| 12:36.21 | NAiL | I think there's a package called nslu2-utils |
| 12:37.46 | mial | ok |
| 12:38.33 | mial | I installed the beep package |
| 12:38.43 | mial | when I call beep, the nslu2 emits a strange sound |
| 12:38.56 | mial | like "shkrr" |
| 12:39.44 | mial | mh, nslu2-utils is already installed |
| 12:40.27 | NAiL | beep --help |
| 12:40.35 | NAiL | I think it should be possible to adjust freq |
| 12:40.48 | mial | I see |
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| 12:41.18 | NAiL | morning likewise :) |
| 12:41.29 | likewise | morning :-) |
| 12:42.42 | mial | sudo beep -f 4 -l 200 |
| 12:42.46 | mial | makes a better sound |
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| 13:22.10 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r629 10kernel/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Update STATUS file with latest upstream submission info |
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| 15:24.13 | likewise | blaster8: tnx for fixing http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1675, can I close it? |
| 15:24.55 | blaster8 | didn't spot that |
| 15:25.29 | blaster8 | yeah, close it |
| 15:32.53 | likewise | done |
| 15:33.23 | blaster8 | thanks |
| 15:33.45 | blaster8 | I'm not entirely sure we should be shipping reiserfs, to be honest |
| 15:33.59 | blaster8 | not sufficiently reliable IMO, even on x86 |
| 15:34.14 | blaster8 | still, it's there and now it's fixed |
| 15:56.41 | likewise | blaster8: I *used* to use it on my x86 boxen as it was fast for small files (read: source code) but I do not trust it with regards to regression over several versions. |
| 15:56.54 | blaster8 | same here |
| 15:57.33 | blaster8 | migrated to XFS on the one partition which *needs* to be fast, and used ext3 on the others (UPS-backed btw) |
| 15:58.39 | likewise | blaster8: Yup, I like XFS in terms of design, but ext3 is a very nice default. ext4 should be very good in terms of design as well. |
| 15:59.09 | blaster8 | XFS is only possible if you have a UPS, really |
| 15:59.30 | blaster8 | any interruption, be it a crash or a power 'event' can leave you with serious data loss |
| 16:00.19 | blaster8 | but I got a ridiculous second hand 1000VA UPS with new batteries to power all of my kit |
| 16:00.55 | likewise | blaster8: I would be happy with a 5 minute UPS that just allows the systems to shutdown properly. Only have 1 powerfail per year here so far. |
| 16:01.24 | likewise | blaster8: 1000 VA for how long? |
| 16:01.36 | blaster8 | over half an hour |
| 16:01.57 | blaster8 | we get too many failures here, about 6 over 30 secs every year |
| 16:02.24 | likewise | blaster8: half an hour, that allows you to email all your online friends to tell you are going offline. |
| 16:02.33 | likewise | :-) |
| 16:02.48 | blaster8 | with the big computers off, it powers my network infrastructure for about 4 hours |
| 16:03.02 | blaster8 | so I can still use wireless and ADSL ;) |
| 16:31.27 | *** join/#nslu2-linux Texture (n=mux@vil69-7-88-163-153-84.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:34.18 | Texture | hey. could anyone suggest a method to backup my root filesystem (Debian/NSLU2) to another partition or to a file? i tried cpio and dd so far, and i was never able to restore a functionnal system. |
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| 16:38.32 | *** join/#nslu2-linux RobNC (n=RobNC@user-0c8hao0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 16:38.43 | RobNC | join #openwrt |
| 16:44.18 | [g2] | RobNC I think you want a / on that :) |
| 16:48.53 | *** join/#nslu2-linux RobN1 (n=RobNC@user-0c8hao0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 16:48.57 | RobN1 | yeah sorry my fault... touchpads stink |
| 16:52.49 | gda_ | hi, made an optware ipk for fuse for the ds101g, to make it perfect I have to stage the kernel sources from my kernel modules ipk |
| 16:53.12 | gda_ | what do you think, simply copy the kernel sources to staging/src/linux? |
| 16:53.33 | RobN1 | what's this on the wiki about UART2 Tx pins not "brought out"... is this really true? |
| 16:55.02 | blaster8 | yes |
| 16:55.42 | RobN1 | so the pads don't go to vias on the bottom of the 420? |
| 16:56.01 | blaster8 | no |
| 16:56.32 | blaster8 | or at least, not that anyone has ever found them |
| 16:56.35 | RobN1 | But Rx works, so it could potentially be used for things like, UPS daemons, etc. |
| 16:56.53 | RobN1 | I have an x-ray machine at work, I might try to confirm it. |
| 16:56.55 | blaster8 | well, for a dumb ups |
| 16:57.07 | RobN1 | yeah I dont have $$ for smart ones. |
| 16:57.07 | blaster8 | RobN1: makes sense, if you can |
| 16:57.21 | blaster8 | RobN1: neither do I, until you buy them second hand |
| 16:58.26 | RobN1 | oops sorry my nick should be RobNC... true. Some ppl get rid of them b/c the batteries are bad but the batteries are pretty cheap compared to the electronics |
| 16:59.49 | blaster8 | RobN1: if you want more serial ports, USB-Serial seems to be the best way to go |
| 17:00.53 | RobN1 | yeah it's just more peripherals and larger size. I see that there are three more ports available. It is kinda funny how only one port supports thumbdrives but actually all ports should work. Linksys didn't connect the power on the other port. In fact, they have a ferrite bead instead of a fuse, on the powered one. |
| 17:01.21 | blaster8 | strange |
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| 17:07.36 | *** join/#nslu2-linux RobNC (n=RobNC@user-0c8hao0.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 17:08.10 | RobNC | sorry - lost connection (WRT issues) |
| 17:13.12 | blaster8 | FreeBSD Wireless Router |
| 17:13.25 | blaster8 | Wireless network issues a thing of the past :) |
| 17:14.11 | blaster8 | 75 days uptime flawless without a reboot until I decided to update the system |
| 17:15.56 | RobNC | heh I am working on that but have to first hack the heck out of a BHR-HP-54G. I've added JTAG and serial port, but it won't boot just yet b/c config registers probably need updating. I replaced 16MB with 128MB. |
| 17:16.14 | RobNC | (my current router is WRT54G v1.0) |
| 17:17.40 | blaster8 | WRAP - 266MHz Geode x86 running pfSense |
| 17:17.42 | RobNC | yeah I thought of that but that's almost like having an ONT outside your house. |
| 17:18.20 | blaster8 | ? |
| 17:18.34 | blaster8 | WPA2/802.11g |
| 17:18.55 | RobNC | um, I mean like one of those optical network terminations (i.e., Verizon FiOS) |
| 17:19.09 | blaster8 | UK, don't know about those things |
| 17:21.23 | RobNC | ah okay sorry about that confusion. Those BCM5352 should be good enough, 200MHz (o/c to 250MHz I hear), but flash and RAM are too small. |
| 17:21.39 | RobNC | I mean from factory, much like nslu2 :-) |
| 17:22.19 | blaster8 | it's good, but too much work to replace for me |
| 17:22.32 | blaster8 | especially then having to run Linux/MIPS on them... |
| 17:23.17 | RobNC | ah I have access to the necessary tools. Got a fatslug now, gotta replace redboot with APEX but I think APEX doesn't have recovery modes, like RedBoot, right? |
| 17:24.25 | RobNC | I wouldn't attempt it w/o microscope and SMT soldering stations. |
| 17:26.58 | RobNC | maybe it |
| 17:27.58 | RobNC | maybe it's better to just rebuild Redboot. We use uboot at work, and that seems to be pretty flexible (mostly environment options for config). |
| 17:30.49 | blaster8 | APEX does have a recovery mode |
| 17:30.59 | blaster8 | but no networking on ixp4xx |
| 17:31.07 | blaster8 | so you need to use serial |
| 17:33.03 | RobNC | ah okay so it can support xmodem for transfer mode, like apex? |
| 17:33.07 | RobNC | I mean like redboot |
| 17:33.11 | blaster8 | indeed |
| 17:33.18 | blaster8 | the website is offline for some reason atm |
| 17:33.31 | blaster8 | it's a damn site easier to build than a new redboot as well |
| 17:33.56 | RobNC | Thing I didn't like about redboot. You can receive a file, etc. to the NSLU2 but no way to (over serial) to send a file? |
| 17:34.39 | RobNC | I mean, i.e., send the contents of memory location A to B via xmodem. I guess you have to use JTAG for that, and that's a bit messy for me (yet). |
| 17:35.02 | blaster8 | JTAG is best for full flash backup |
| 17:35.29 | blaster8 | I wouldn't think that trying to build a new Redboot for the NSLU2 is a good idea |
| 17:35.34 | RobNC | Got the nslu2 with JTAG hard wired up, but haven't tested openwince JTAG yet. I did confirm the interface for the BHR-HP-WRT (detects bcm5352 and flash, and hairydairymaid works) |
| 17:36.29 | RobNC | yeah it can be risky. I haven't done a cross-compiler before but I do have linux running (albeit Fedora) and compiler/libraries installed. |
| 17:36.59 | RobNC | Wonder if it'd be better to install debian for this purpose. Or some ppl say Knoppix (also debian based) |
| 17:37.40 | blaster8 | RobNC: I would use Debian Etch |
| 17:37.53 | blaster8 | I have a dedicated virtualised build machine using OpenVZ |
| 17:38.32 | blaster8 | Building a cross-compiler is trivial with our build system |
| 17:39.17 | RobNC | etch - is that an older version of debian (not sarge)? |
| 17:39.34 | mial | no |
| 17:39.35 | CIA-8 | 03gda * r4722 10optware/trunk/make/ds101g-kernel-modules.mk: ds101g-kernel-modules: added stage target |
| 17:39.45 | mial | it's the testing version |
| 17:40.45 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r630 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.20/KERNEL: Update to 2.6.20-rc1-git4 |
| 17:40.50 | RobNC | ah gotcha... it seems the debian testing is probably more stable than some of these fedora cores. I'd have to re-learn all the config stuff though (i.e., no /etc/rc.d and possibly problems with alien and rpms) |
| 17:41.48 | CIA-8 | 03gda * r4723 10optware/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): ds101g-kernel-module-fuse: fuse module with utils for ds101g |
| 17:42.00 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r631 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.20/ (7 files): Preliminary cleanup of ixp4xx for 2.6.20, workstruct api fixups pending |
| 17:42.00 | mial | I've got less problems with debian unstable than fedora core :) |
| 17:43.02 | RobNC | mial: that is what I am thinking... I had some issues with FC5 - everytime logging into desktop, the whole machine would hang. Video card was Radeon 7000, and using Dell SC400 (stable platform!). |
| 17:43.44 | RobNC | are there no DVD installs for etch? |
| 17:44.01 | blaster8 | hmm, not sure |
| 17:44.01 | RobNC | or do you first install sarge then upgrade to etch |
| 17:44.09 | blaster8 | I'd use the debian beta installer |
| 17:44.32 | mial | I think it's better to do a netinstall and install all the stuff you need from internet |
| 17:44.44 | blaster8 | http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ |
| 17:45.09 | blaster8 | http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/etch_di_rc1/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso |
| 17:45.13 | mial | (btw, sorry for my english, I'm only 14 and I'm from switzerland) |
| 17:46.04 | blaster8 | hey mial: I wish my schweizerdeutsch was as good as your english |
| 17:46.39 | mial | I'm from the french part of switzerland :) |
| 17:47.02 | blaster8 | hehe, oops |
| 17:47.42 | RobNC | mial: heh no probleml thanks for tip and thanks blaster8 |
| 18:13.03 | RobNC | blaster8 so with that CD net install, is it command-line based or some kind of easy to traverse GUI for installs? I.e., during the install, I hate not knowing whatsome of the packages do |
| 18:13.17 | blaster8 | there's a GUI now |
| 18:13.37 | blaster8 | Are you installing this on a primary work machine? |
| 18:13.47 | mial | yeah, there is a GTK GUI now |
| 18:13.59 | mial | as replacement for the legacy ncurses GUI |
| 18:16.03 | blaster8 | personally I would set up a headless machine with a minimal command line debian and ssh in from your favourite distro/OS |
| 18:17.13 | RobNC | mial: thanks, will have to try that in etch. Downloading CD image now but very slowly 500Bytes/sec. |
| 18:17.24 | blaster8 | aah |
| 18:17.24 | RobNC | blaster8: yes that is my plan, and VNC in as needed |
| 18:17.26 | blaster8 | mirror time |
| 18:17.49 | RobNC | blaster8 yeah true... gotta find a faster mirror |
| 18:20.01 | RobNC | mial: netinst CD has the GTK GUI install? |
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| 18:22.23 | blaster8 | probably not |
| 18:22.59 | RobNC | that stinks... it is a pain to use keyboard only to select things, esp with as many packages in debian |
| 18:23.19 | mial | but the ncurses GUI is not as bad |
| 18:23.40 | mial | and you can install all the packages you need later |
| 18:23.53 | Texture | hi. after restoring from a backup (using dd), my slug seems to boot correctly, except that eth0 does not come up. it seems to be detected (ixp4xx_mac driver 0.2.1: eth0 on NPE-B with PHY[1] initialized) but it won't come up and i can't access the slug. i'm clueless. if anyone has an idea... (Debian/NSLU2) |
| 18:24.52 | *** join/#nslu2-linux vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p549B6FC3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:24.52 | blaster8 | RobNC: install the minimum |
| 18:24.57 | blaster8 | then add things later |
| 18:29.37 | RobNC | blaster8 I see your point but lotta times you don't know what you need until after you don't have it. Then it's a ratrace (with at least Fedora), find this RPM, oops, deps fail, need another package, yada yada |
| 18:30.35 | mial | there is a lot of packages in the officials debian repositories |
| 18:30.38 | RobNC | I mean you may end up spending hours meeting all the dependencies, finding packages, etc. before you can install the package you want. This is a good thing as it adds stability but it can be a headache when you don't know where to get this dependency, etc. |
| 18:30.58 | mial | I've heard there is about 15k packages in it |
| 18:32.18 | RobNC | wow... that's actually a good thing but then it can be hard to decide which package to choose (that do similar things). |
| 18:33.53 | mial | $ aptitude install[tabulation][tabulation gave that: |
| 18:34.09 | RobNC | Then I didn't even mention the problems of installing a package and then the desktop manager expects another to be installed, or worse that one program doesn't know about another b/c they're not the default apps installed. I dunno - perhaps too many previous problems with redhat and fedora installs! :-) |
| 18:34.09 | mial | display all 23228 possibilities ? (y or n) |
| 18:34.45 | RobNC | cool - so can apt-get automatically get the dependencies as needed, much like yum? |
| 18:34.53 | mial | yes |
| 18:35.06 | RobNC | ah that makes it significantly easier. So just one repository then? |
| 18:35.14 | mial | apt is probably the most powerful package manager |
| 18:35.19 | mial | yes |
| 18:36.23 | RobNC | yeah I thought so, after my limited use of it with nslu2 (running debian older version - needs to be upgraded) |
| 18:36.48 | mial | and if you install a package, who need a ton of dependances, and later you want to remove this package and all the deps who came with, apt remember which packages were installed as dependances, and remove them |
| 18:37.19 | mial | s/dependances/dependencies/ |
| 18:37.21 | RobNC | oh now that's nice. no stale files, etc. lying around? |
| 18:38.30 | mial | yes, exactly |
| 18:39.28 | RobNC | gotcha mial. maybe it's better to just get the 2 DVD installs and install that versus the minimal CD install for etch RC1 |
| 18:39.59 | mial | it's better to use aptitude install instead of apt-get, because it better handles the dependencies as apt-get |
| 18:40.32 | mial | RobNC: do you think you'll use all the packages there is in the dvd ? |
| 18:40.48 | mial | making a netinstall will save a lot of bandwith |
| 18:41.47 | RobNC | mial: yeah I see your point in regards to aptitude. True, I probably won't need all those language stuff, Tek, none of the X-devel, KDE/Gnome devel, so indeed netinstall would be the fastest. |
| 18:42.09 | mial | yes |
| 18:42.48 | RobNC | gotta find a faster source for netinstall blaster8 pointed me to |
| 18:43.11 | blaster8 | how fast are you downloading? I got 100KB/s from there |
| 18:43.34 | blaster8 | http://ftp.acc.umu.se/cdimage/etch_di_rc1/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso |
| 18:44.08 | RobNC | I'm in USA so that might be slow for me |
| 18:44.48 | RobNC | gatech prolly fastest for me - at mirror site now |
| 18:46.27 | RobNC | seems like not many mirrors have etch only have sarge (3.1r4) |
| 18:46.31 | blaster8 | mm |
| 18:49.09 | blaster8 | http://ftp.ticklers.org/cdimage.debian.org-cdimage/etch_di_rc1/i386/iso-cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso |
| 18:50.15 | RobNC | yeah significantly faster... 300kB/sec |
| 18:50.17 | RobNC | thanks! |
| 18:54.58 | RobNC | blaster8 you know where I can get an MD5 of that RC1? |
| 18:55.11 | blaster8 | http://ftp.ticklers.org/cdimage.debian.org-cdimage/etch_di_rc1/i386/iso-cd/MD5SUMS |
| 18:55.34 | RobNC | thanks, it's not on the website for debian for some reason (not even a link). |
| 18:56.10 | blaster8 | it's in the directory with the files |
| 18:58.22 | RobNC | yeah figured as much - after I saw that I did a "d'oh" |
| 19:03.40 | *** join/#nslu2-linux bullet (n=bullet@84-66.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:03.54 | *** part/#nslu2-linux bullet (n=bullet@84-66.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:09.34 | blaster8 | better to ask than to spend ages looking :) |
| 19:10.00 | RobNC | yeah this is true! |
| 19:13.10 | blaster8 | what computer are you putting this on? the one you are typing on now? |
| 19:16.28 | RobNC | blaster8: no, have separate PC for that. |
| 19:16.38 | blaster8 | good, just checking |
| 19:16.47 | RobNC | heh!! |
| 19:16.52 | blaster8 | debian is not necessarily what you want for a primary desktop PC |
| 19:17.04 | mial | shh |
| 19:17.20 | mial | Debian etch runs very nicely as a my principal desktop. |
| 19:17.44 | blaster8 | hehe |
| 19:18.18 | RobNC | blaster8 mial: I've used icewm over VNC over ssh2 - that works pretty well |
| 19:18.35 | blaster8 | not surprised, it's a good idea |
| 19:19.13 | RobNC | but KDE over VNC is a DOG |
| 19:20.08 | RobNC | gotta back up my /etc /home /root directories from fedora (re-use SSH keys) |
| 19:21.54 | RobNC | I also run boinc - presumably that's supported in debian. Do you guys use the nslu2 as-is w/o mods? |
| 19:22.56 | blaster8 | serial/overclock is a must |
| 19:25.28 | RobNC | indeed - the easiest mod is the de-underclock. |
| 19:25.59 | RobNC | I am really impressed with Intel's documentation available. JUST the opposite for Broadcom though |
| 19:26.26 | nbd | too bad their firmware redistribution policy is really nasty |
| 19:27.22 | RobNC | yeah I can't understand their paranoia but then again Intel probably has more $$ to go after those copycats in China and India |
| 19:27.51 | *** join/#nslu2-linux marceln (n=marceln@pion.xs4all.nl) |
| 19:27.52 | nbd | not that this helps even the slightest bit to hinder copycats... |
| 19:28.16 | nbd | it's not like product pirates pay attention to EULAs ... |
| 19:29.04 | blaster8 | Intel's documentation is ok, shame about the software AND the license |
| 19:29.10 | RobNC | yeah but Intel has sites in china and india so they could say they'll pull their sites (bluff!) |
| 19:30.23 | RobNC | yeah I hear that IX420 ethernet driver opensource will be avail soon? |
| 19:31.06 | blaster8 | well, there is a driver |
| 19:31.45 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4724 10optware/trunk/make/py-nose.mk: py-nose: added py25 subpackage |
| 19:33.18 | RobNC | I read somewhere that the OS driver is more stable than the Intel driver? |
| 19:33.36 | blaster8 | it is indeed |
| 19:33.50 | blaster8 | but it still has one major unresolved issue with heavy uploads |
| 19:34.06 | blaster8 | and it some code location changes are required before it can go upstream |
| 19:34.36 | RobNC | I ran into a problem when I did rsync -rsac over NFS mount that the NSLU2 would hang network access. Unplugging and reinserting ethernet cable, the network was restored. Verified via serial console. |
| 19:35.05 | blaster8 | post details to mlj28@cam.ac.uk and I will forward to the developer |
| 19:35.15 | RobNC | rsync run this way does a CRC integrity check over the network, which would run incredibly slow. |
| 19:35.28 | RobNC | ok, no problem... I didn't know if it was a known issue or not. |
| 19:35.55 | RobNC | This was with 170+ GB of data so it may be related to already known issues. |
| 19:35.56 | blaster8 | always assume it's not a known issue, especially with a driver this new and hardware this bloody complicated |
| 19:36.12 | blaster8 | there are only 2 known issues at all |
| 19:36.16 | blaster8 | and even if we k |
| 19:36.19 | RobNC | oh I'm not using the new driver, using the one from OpenDebian |
| 19:36.27 | blaster8 | ? |
| 19:36.31 | blaster8 | the Intel driver? |
| 19:36.42 | blaster8 | with kernel 2.6.17? |
| 19:36.52 | RobNC | yeah intel - gimme a sec to find details |
| 19:37.02 | blaster8 | aah, in that case it's not a big deal |
| 19:37.13 | blaster8 | the intel driver is broken, I thought you meant the OSS driver |
| 19:37.21 | RobNC | http://www.cyrius.com/debian/nslu2/ |
| 19:37.32 | blaster8 | Debian 2.6.18 contains the OSS driver |
| 19:38.46 | RobNC | ah no I'm not using OSS driver but I will soon, as I am using the older 3.1 debian with 2.6.16 (can't recall but think its BE) |
| 19:39.13 | blaster8 | ok |
| 19:39.51 | RobNC | "uname -a" shows Linux NSLU2 2.6.16 #1 PREEMPT Thu Jun 8 23:38:13 PDT 2006 armv5tel GNU/Linux |
| 19:40.05 | blaster8 | little-endian |
| 19:40.28 | RobNC | ah ok... and the APEX is only LE? |
| 19:40.56 | blaster8 | APEX? |
| 19:41.26 | RobNC | yeah I thought that the bootloader had to boot up in one mode and then the kernel, etc. had to be the same mode? |
| 19:41.32 | blaster8 | APEX is the bootloader we use to load a larger kernel, it is open source and can be compiled as big or little endian |
| 19:41.44 | blaster8 | your current install is LE, as shown by armv5tel |
| 19:42.04 | RobNC | ah ok, yeah it was a netinstall |
| 19:42.39 | RobNC | I'm hesitant to upgrade/reinstall b/c things are working now (NFS, samba) and it took a while to figure out deps etc. b/c it was unstable build |
| 19:42.53 | blaster8 | don't upgrade if it's a working production system |
| 19:44.09 | RobNC | oh no it's for home use (poor man's mirroring raid), using 2 drives and rsync over NFS |
| 19:44.59 | blaster8 | that counts as production |
| 19:45.08 | blaster8 | rsync over NFS! eek |
| 19:45.24 | RobNC | but I think it's worth it to upgrade if it fixes some annoying problems I've noticed with intel driver |
| 19:45.34 | RobNC | rsync over NFS is reportedly faster than rsync over ssh |
| 19:45.57 | blaster8 | rsync over rsync is the best, though |
| 19:45.58 | mial | yeah, it's true |
| 19:46.02 | blaster8 | if rather insecure |
| 19:47.13 | RobNC | the problem I've seen most recently is if you use DHCP, and no DHCP server is found, or if DHCP lease expires and no DHCP server responds, the Debian install of NSLU2 never re-tries to acquire a lease |
| 19:48.11 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4725 10optware/trunk/make/py-configobj.mk: py-configobj: added py25 subpackage |
| 19:48.15 | RobNC | you have to restart the network to get ifconfig configured properly |
| 19:50.28 | RobNC | and there's some problem with local dns - not sure if it's b/c I may not have bind configured or installed correctly? |
| 19:50.50 | blaster8 | bind is a monster |
| 19:51.13 | blaster8 | I just use dnsmasq for local dns |
| 19:52.30 | RobNC | seems that isn't installed on my system, that could be the issue. But mostly I use numeric IPs so it's not really a biggie but I'd prefer to use DNS so if I change the network topology |
| 19:53.04 | *** join/#nslu2-linux caplink811_log (n=caplink8@dslb-088-073-036-081.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:53.05 | blaster8 | ? |
| 19:53.12 | blaster8 | what is your router running on? |
| 19:53.27 | RobNC | router is wrt54g right now |
| 19:53.31 | blaster8 | OS? |
| 19:54.02 | RobNC | oh sorry router is WRT54G running tomato (hack of linksys firmware) |
| 19:54.20 | blaster8 | ok, so where are you running bind? |
| 19:55.04 | RobNC | oh yeah bind is not running, dnsmasq is running on the router, as server, but NSLU2 is client and is getting /etc/resolv.conf correct but can't resolve DNS names |
| 19:55.53 | blaster8 | no idea why that would be, unfortunately |
| 19:56.14 | blaster8 | might be a router issue, might be debian |
| 19:56.39 | RobNC | it's a problem on the NSLU2 for sure... other machines (WinXP / linux) work fine in getting DHCP info from router |
| 19:58.06 | RobNC | ah there is no nslookup? |
| 20:06.57 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r632 10kernel/trunk/Makefile: Update Makefile to cope with snapshots properly |
| 20:07.48 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r633 10kernel/trunk/Makefile: Revert to building 2.6.19 by default |
| 20:12.22 | RobNC | bbl/// |
| 20:36.27 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4726 10optware/trunk/make/ (4 files): py-paste*: added py25 subpackages |
| 20:41.47 | rwhitby | RobNC: if you have access to an X-Ray machine, an X-ray of the internal traces of the NSLU2 board would be *very* useful. |
| 21:04.53 | jacques | I'm not surprised rsync over ssh is slow - lots of cpu needed for ssh encryption |
| 21:04.57 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r634 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.20/KERNEL: Bump to 2.6.20-rc1-git5 to fix mincore error |
| 21:06.31 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4727 10optware/trunk/make/py-protocols.mk: py-protocools: added py25 subpackage |
| 21:07.03 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4728 10optware/trunk/make/py-ruledispatch.mk: py-ruledispatch: added py25 subpackage |
| 21:08.33 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4729 10optware/trunk/make/py-simplejson.mk: py-simplejson: added py25 subpackage |
| 21:09.02 | *** join/#nslu2-linux blaster8 (n=blaster8@dsl-217-155-56-85.zen.co.uk) |
| 21:10.30 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4730 10optware/trunk/make/py-protocols.mk: py-protocols: fixed DEPENDS |
| 21:21.57 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4731 10optware/trunk/make/ (py-protocols.mk py-ruledispatch.mk): py-protocols & py-ruledispatch: fixed -dirclean |
| 21:24.54 | *** join/#nslu2-linux bullet (n=bullet@84-66.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
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| 21:54.40 | *** join/#nslu2-linux CIA-8 (i=cia@cia.navi.cx) |
| 22:03.46 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4735 10optware/trunk/make/tor.mk: tor: 0.1.1.25 -> 0.1.1.26 |
| 22:27.12 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4736 10optware/trunk/make/py-turbogears.mk: py-turbogears: added py25 subpackage |
| 22:28.09 | *** join/#nslu2-linux rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 22:30.10 | likewise | morning rwhitby |
| 22:30.54 | rwhitby | morning |
| 22:36.06 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4737 10optware/trunk/make/nanoblogger.mk: nanoblogger: added bsdmainutils for cal command now that cal has been fixed |
| 22:36.24 | *** join/#nslu2-linux yvasilev (n=yvasilev@189.140.153.14) |
| 22:51.31 | RobNC | rwhitby got ur message about xray machine |
| 22:52.17 | RobNC | the whole board or just certain parts? |
| 22:52.19 | rwhitby | cool - can you add to http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/PhotosOfTheInternals with some *real* internal images? |
| 22:52.47 | rwhitby | the whole board if you think you can get resolution to make out individual tracks |
| 22:53.24 | rwhitby | e.g. resolution like http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/uploads/NSLU2-board-front-bare.jpg |
| 22:53.36 | RobNC | yeah probably but hopefully easy to decipher. Might take some time though but better than nothing. Too bad we can't get the BRD file from Linksys. |
| 22:55.09 | RobNC | the X-ray machine can be blurry unless it's close and high resolution. It's mainly used for detection of cold solder joints for BGAs. |
| 22:57.16 | RobNC | I know the output goes to a CCD camera but not sure if there is a scanner built-in. I.e., dump it to a file directly versus printing and then scanning the output file. |
| 22:59.20 | NAiL | anyone tried the UIO stuff from gregkh? |
| 22:59.47 | NAiL | I've patched my kernel with the uio patches, but for some reason that is beyond me, it doesn't show up in make config |
| 23:01.13 | RobNC | rwhitby: Does Redboot have recover functionality that APEX lacks? |
| 23:02.08 | rwhitby | Linksys redboot has the upgrade protocol, which allows recovery without serial console access |
| 23:02.24 | RobNC | oh that's it? Since I already have serial port, it's moot then |
| 23:02.47 | RobNC | I was wondering why NSLU2 movement went with APEX versus uboot (what we use at work) |
| 23:02.49 | rwhitby | well, it also has networking, so you can tftp down a new image to flash |
| 23:03.07 | RobNC | yeah networking is kinda essential :-) |
| 23:03.22 | rwhitby | (that's Linksys Redboot I was referring to) |
| 23:03.32 | rwhitby | Apex doesn't have networking yet, but the author is working on it. |
| 23:03.52 | RobNC | OH I didn't know that. So no tftp recovery of flash image? |
| 23:04.06 | rwhitby | As for why Apex vs U-Boot - no real reason other than the Apex author was around :-) |
| 23:04.14 | rwhitby | Apex has no networking yet. |
| 23:04.21 | rwhitby | That's why we put it in as a second stage. |
| 23:05.07 | RobNC | ah okay. That helps! I gotcha but doesn't that eat up flash space? I guess it prolly doesn't matter if you're booting from external image but I thought the kernel was in flash? |
| 23:05.32 | rwhitby | the main reason for Apex is to get past the 1MB kernel limit |
| 23:05.39 | RobNC | And it's easier to use APEX than to re-make Redboot to support varying sizes? |
| 23:05.46 | rwhitby | Apex now has specific code that knows about the quirks of the nslu2. |
| 23:06.06 | rwhitby | varying size what? |
| 23:06.38 | RobNC | varying size in regards to SDRAM and flash sizes and populations |
| 23:07.01 | rwhitby | RobNC: you need to realise that these decisions are based on the premise that we will never expect the end-users of the 50,000 downloads on nslu2-linux firmware to ever reflash the bootloader. |
| 23:07.18 | nbd | which is a good thing |
| 23:07.20 | RobNC | this is true! Only necessary if there is a problem with the boot loader. |
| 23:07.26 | nbd | wouldn't want end users to mess up their boot loader |
| 23:07.39 | RobNC | yes, not everyone has access to SMT soldering tools!! |
| 23:08.23 | rwhitby | so we needed a second-stage bootloader which could help us get past the 1MB limit (so we could use the generic ixp4xx kernel in Debian), and was under the 128KB erase block size granularity. |
| 23:08.35 | *** join/#nslu2-linux blaster8 (n=blaster8@dsl-217-155-56-85.zen.co.uk) |
| 23:08.37 | RobNC | so the idea is use redboot to boot Apex, then boot a kernel in flash with different offset than when booting the kernel from redboot? |
| 23:08.38 | *** join/#nslu2-linux bullet (n=bullet@112.248.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 23:08.50 | rwhitby | yes |
| 23:08.54 | nbd | rwhitby: how big is that kernel? |
| 23:09.08 | rwhitby | nbd: about 1.2MB I think |
| 23:09.21 | nbd | hmm... maybe it could fit under 1 MB with lzma |
| 23:09.23 | [g2] | rwhitby just doesn't like reflashing the original bootloader :) |
| 23:09.32 | RobNC | so it's prolly not a good idea then to replace redboot with apex, just yet. |
| 23:09.36 | rwhitby | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1213948 Dec 12 09:58 vmlinuz-2.6.19-1-ixp4xx |
| 23:09.39 | RobNC | until networking is working |
| 23:10.38 | rwhitby | [g2]: yeah, I've done it once (unintended), and it's not much fun and would be beyond the capabilities of at least 99% of nslu2-linux firmware users. |
| 23:10.52 | RobNC | we had some issues at work with uboot and networking. Some switches were picky and would not do auto-negotiate correctly, and sometimes the TFTP transfer of kernel image would stall. |
| 23:11.40 | nbd | rwhitby: on one of our mipsel targets, the gzipped kernel was 1 MB, while the lzma-compressed one was only 700k |
| 23:11.49 | [g2] | RobNC u-boot on which platform ? |
| 23:11.58 | rwhitby | nbd: the nslu2 boots slow enough already ;-) |
| 23:12.04 | RobNC | rwhitby you would suggest backing up the flash from the application software versus through redboot? I don't know or believe that redboot can "tftp put" a file. |
| 23:12.09 | RobNC | g2: PPC |
| 23:12.18 | rwhitby | RobNC: cat /dev/mtdblock* in Linux |
| 23:12.30 | nbd | rwhitby: i think it won't take much longer than 2-3 seconds |
| 23:12.34 | [g2] | or dd |
| 23:12.54 | nbd | rwhitby: and you save all the flash space that would otherwise be used by apex :) |
| 23:12.54 | rwhitby | nbd: yeah, I was just poking you. |
| 23:12.57 | nbd | :) |
| 23:13.20 | RobNC | part of me is kinda stuck in the mindset of making backup of flash with JTAG or maybe I am just masochistic! :-) |
| 23:13.23 | rwhitby | the main reason for Apex is the future promise of being able to telnet into the bootloader, instead of having to solder on a serial port. |
| 23:13.43 | rwhitby | and being able to change the bootloader command line from userland |
| 23:13.43 | [g2] | RobNC that's a great idea of you want to verify your JTAT |
| 23:13.49 | [g2] | s/JTAT/JTAG/ |
| 23:14.03 | RobNC | g2: exactly!! I don't want to go down a path I can't get out. |
| 23:14.16 | [g2] | but unless you are running from the mtdblock dd works well |
| 23:14.23 | rwhitby | RobNC: as long as you don't overwrite the vendor redboot, you'll always be able to get out. |
| 23:14.45 | RobNC | the flash shouldn't be mounted once the kernel boots up, right? |
| 23:14.58 | rwhitby | depends where your rootfs is mounted from |
| 23:15.12 | [g2] | nbd got 5 minutes ? |
| 23:15.34 | RobNC | /dev/sda1 on / type ext3 (rw) |
| 23:16.00 | RobNC | but unsure where it boots from if no USB HDDs attached - isn't that flash? |
| 23:16.07 | [g2] | RobNC if you boot straight to sda1 then nothing will be mounted |
| 23:16.25 | nbd | [g2]: sure |
| 23:16.51 | [g2] | nbd a month or two ago we briefly chatted about verifing/kernel configs |
| 23:17.04 | RobNC | but isn't the kernel simply copied from flash to ram, and then run from ram? No linux kernel should be running from flash, I would hope! |
| 23:17.18 | nbd | [g2]: yes |
| 23:17.32 | [g2] | nbd I'm just about at that point for the XScale with setting up automated regression testing |
| 23:18.13 | nbd | interesting |
| 23:18.16 | [g2] | My current setup is for gcc 4.1.1 and LE |
| 23:18.52 | [g2] | I've got two main config I'm gonna verfiy. The avila platform and loft. The avila is basically a USBless Loft |
| 23:19.53 | [g2] | So I'm looking to verify, NFS, jffs2, squashfs, ramdisk, CF, for the Avila and those + USB for the Loft |
| 23:20.08 | [g2] | booting to all those and testing automated |
| 23:20.12 | rwhitby | RobNC: correct - kernel and modules are always in ram |
| 23:21.16 | likewise | [g2]: hi, interesting, all fully automated? |
| 23:21.20 | [g2] | nbd and I build the madwifi drivers from svn too |
| 23:21.36 | [g2] | likewise I'm pretty close |
| 23:21.38 | RobNC | so is it correct to say that the CFE variables are in flash, and that redboot might not read it, thus increasing NSLU2 RAM wouldn't be detected b/c of redboot or b/c CFE is not read? I thought that CFE is first thing read by processor. |
| 23:21.41 | likewise | nbd: do you have lzma kernel decompression for ARM? |
| 23:22.25 | rwhitby | RobNC: Linksys RedBoot has RAM size hard-coded to 32MB. |
| 23:22.40 | nbd | likewise: not yet. but i don't think that this is hard to do |
| 23:23.03 | [g2] | likewise right now I can build the full kernel and drivers from scratch and copy them to the DUT (Device Under Test) |
| 23:23.18 | rwhitby | nbd: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/kernel/browser/trunk/patches/2.6.19/squashfs |
| 23:23.39 | rwhitby | (I believe that's for lzma) |
| 23:23.48 | RobNC | rwhitby: and the kernel reads this from redboot? you'd think that if the CFE was changed, then the kernel should be able to work with it, irregardless of the boot loader? |
| 23:24.14 | rwhitby | RobNC: ARM kernels get RAM size from ATAGs. |
| 23:24.17 | likewise | rwhitby: no that's (my) lzma patch for squashFS |
| 23:24.18 | nbd | rwhitby: we already have squashfs lzma'd |
| 23:24.31 | nbd | rwhitby: i'm talking about the kernel image |
| 23:24.40 | rwhitby | ok, ignore my ignorance :-) |
| 23:25.39 | RobNC | rwhitby: does that mean via pullups/pulldowns? |
| 23:26.06 | rwhitby | RobNC: no, the bootloader passes the information to the kernel. |
| 23:26.20 | [g2] | RobNC whether a tri-stated line is pulled to VCC or GND |
| 23:26.54 | RobNC | g2 yep that would be pullup/pulldown :-) |
| 23:26.56 | rwhitby | http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/developer/booting.php |
| 23:27.17 | rwhitby | ATAG_MEM |
| 23:27.35 | [g2] | nbd are you guys still on .17 ? |
| 23:27.45 | nbd | no, .19 now |
| 23:28.03 | nbd | on all 2.6 targets |
| 23:28.06 | [g2] | nbd Ok excellent. We should compare kernel configs |
| 23:28.09 | RobNC | thanks guys ... brb ... dinnertime |
| 23:28.29 | [g2] | I'd like to compare the avila non-usb config |
| 23:28.34 | rwhitby | [g2]: you know that I booted OpenWRT on the nas100d yesterday? |
| 23:28.52 | [g2] | rwhitby no, but that's great news |
| 23:28.55 | [g2] | congrats! |
| 23:29.01 | likewise | good everning all, happy hacking. |
| 23:29.05 | *** part/#nslu2-linux likewise (n=chatzill@82-171-189-134.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl) |
| 23:29.11 | [g2] | rwhitby did you built from openwrt SVN ? |
| 23:29.29 | rwhitby | yep, and are pushing patches back in |
| 23:30.50 | [g2] | rwhitby pushing patches to which repe ? |
| 23:30.55 | rwhitby | OpenWRT. |
| 23:31.09 | [g2] | which changes ? |
| 23:31.15 | [g2] | or patches ? |
| 23:31.28 | rwhitby | stuff for NAS100d, then NSLU2 and DSMG600. |
| 23:31.54 | rwhitby | mostly just copying stuff from our kernel svn repo |
| 23:32.22 | rwhitby | the aim is to get the NSLU2 as a supported machine in OpenWRT. |
| 23:32.53 | [g2] | rwhitby Ok. so what's the plan with the config area and wireless support ? |
| 23:33.05 | rwhitby | [g2]: no plan yet |
| 23:33.40 | [g2] | rwhitby and you build BE I'm guessing |
| 23:33.45 | rwhitby | (i.e. I don't understand that stuff well enough to contribute to a plan) |
| 23:33.46 | [g2] | s/build/built/ |
| 23:34.03 | rwhitby | yes, but I did push a site defaults file so that LE will build :-) |
| 23:34.17 | rwhitby | (not that you would run openwrt in LE mode) |
| 23:35.56 | [g2] | rwhitby well if someone does get DC (data coherency mode) running then there would be no penalty for running in LE |
| 23:36.20 | [g2] | plus all the Debian stuff would come for "free" |
| 23:36.56 | CIA-8 | 03blaster8 * r635 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.20/ (4 files): Refresh/Enable DSM-G600 support |
| 23:42.24 | RobNC | is LE really slower than BE? |
| 23:42.46 | rwhitby | for networking, when running in Address Coherent mode, yes. |
| 23:43.06 | RobNC | ah I see, so that could make NFS faster, etc. too running in BE |
| 23:43.15 | rwhitby | although I've never seen numbers. |
| 23:44.06 | RobNC | so it could be FUD |
| 23:44.18 | [g2] | rough estimates are about at 20% CPU loss |
| 23:44.45 | RobNC | is it possible to run BE when bootloader is LE? |
| 23:44.57 | [g2] | when running multiple interfaces 3+ I hear things top out at 75-80Mbs |
| 23:45.29 | [g2] | RobNC it's pretty easy to switch the XScale between endianness |
| 23:45.48 | [g2] | iirc the box boots BE by default |
| 23:46.25 | RobNC | g2: yeah but no telling what's going on inside the processor. I.e., does it have to switch anything internally, thus causing some processing or latency penalties |
| 23:47.59 | RobNC | Didn't know that... thought redboot and apex were LE b/c kernel was LE but it sounds like it can be toggled anytime? |
| 23:48.34 | rwhitby | [g2]: Apex is an LE IXP4xx bootloader, if configured to be so :-) |
| 23:48.55 | [g2] | well it can be toggled nearly anytime, but unless you are prepared for it it's probably a bad idea |
| 23:49.08 | rwhitby | (and I do configure Apex LE for the nas100d running Debian) |
| 23:49.57 | [g2] | rwhitby nod. I know it can be configured LE. I'm just saying except for the PXA2{5|7}X like all the IXP4xx bootloaders I know of are BE |
| 23:50.04 | RobNC | aren't ARM and MIPS processors not binary compatible? so if this is the case, what would be gained in merging OpenWRT with NSLU2 |
| 23:50.30 | [g2] | rwhitby that's cool that you actually build APEX in LE mode for the nas100d |
| 23:50.37 | nbd | RobNC: they're not binary compatible at all |
| 23:50.43 | nbd | RobNC: but openwrt is not mips specific either |
| 23:51.01 | rwhitby | RobNC: it's not a merge. it's adding NSLU2 hardware support to OpenWRT |
| 23:51.18 | RobNC | ndb: rwhitby: ok gotcha |
| 23:51.38 | rwhitby | (nothing more than that. I don't want to hear anyone saying "SlugOS is dead, nslu2-linux is moving to OpenWRT" or anything like that. |
| 23:51.46 | [g2] | nbd so the WRT54Gs are 2.6 now ? |
| 23:51.59 | nbd | [g2]: we do support 2.6 and 2.4 on those |
| 23:52.04 | nbd | [g2]: but no wifi on 2.6 yet |
| 23:52.04 | [g2] | the BRCM drivers are all worked out ? |
| 23:52.29 | nbd | i'm working together with mb from bcm43xx to finish the rewrite of the system code based on their ssb bus code |
| 23:52.38 | nbd | and then we have a chance of making bcm43xx with d80211 work |
| 23:52.55 | RobNC | I got a BCM FAE to get me app notes and data sheets for BCM5352 but it stinks how their NDA prohibits redistribution. |
| 23:54.47 | RobNC | wish they were a little more open like Intel but I guess it's not too surprising coming from BCM. Most other fabless vendors are the same way. |
| 23:59.36 | RobNC | so, in regards to Fat SLUG, is it possible to use Redboot to boot APEX, to then boot into Debian per:http://www.cyrius.com/debian/nslu2/ |
