irclog2html for #nslu2-linux on 20050711

`00:00.47`	`NAiL`	`DaKa2: You're outdoing me now ;)`
`00:02.52`	`DaKa2`	`:)))`
`00:07.28`	`CIA-8`	`03repvik * r70 10/releases/OpenSlug-2.0-beta/openembedded/packages/nfs-utils/nfs-utils_1.0.6.bb: Promote nfs-utils to stable`
`00:09.23`	`DaKa2`	`well, this seems to work perfect, needs changing in monotone: add one package, add CONFIG_VLAN_8021Q=m to kernel package`
`00:10.10`	`kolla_`	`mf..dang`
`00:10.54`	`kolla_`	`now I forgot to add ipv6 support to the kernel again`
`00:13.03`	`kolla_`	`what's the use of those pcmcia-cs packages? :)`
`00:14.48`	`NAiL`	`DaKa2: You're one mean machine ;)`
`00:14.55`	`NAiL`	`DaKa2: Which package`
`00:14.58`	`NAiL`	`?`
`00:15.26`	`DaKa2`	`NAiL: http://david.thg.se/saker/vlan_1.8.bb`
`00:15.37`	`DaKa2`	`missing maintainer, otherwise ok`
`00:15.47`	`DaKa2`	`I think..`
`00:24.44`	`DaKa2`	`Im kind of suprised it was that simple, and actually worked`
`00:25.06`	`NAiL`	`sometimes it just does ;)`
`00:25.12`	`DaKa2`	`I've tested it all I can with my equipment now, perfect`
`00:25.26`	`DaKa2`	`now my slug has 25 ethernet ports :-)`
`00:25.48`	`DaKa2`	`(26 port switch - one for the slug)`
`00:26.36`	`kolla_`	`cool :)`
`00:28.32`	`DaKa2`	`I dont know about this halfcheep vlan-capable switch I have, but with real cisco gear it could be 4095 ports`
`00:28.38`	`DaKa2`	`you just need lots of switches`
`00:29.38`	`DaKa2`	`wonder what linux thinks of 4000 interfaces...`
`00:33.52`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * r03d194f3... 10/packages/vlan/vlan_1.8.bb: Added vlan-package (DaKa2)`
`00:33.55`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * r41be7c70... 10/packages/meta/openslug-packages.bb: Added vlan-package to openslug-packages`
`00:33.57`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * r1388a66a... 10/packages/postfix/postfix_2.0.20.bb: Postfix Now adds user when installed`
`00:35.00`	`DaKa2`	`NAiL: is it possible to change the default kernel-config to include CONFIG_VLAN_8021Q=m, so it builds that module`
`00:35.36`	`CIA-8`	`03repvik * r71 10/trunk/openslug/nslu2-linux/packages/vlan: Added vlan`
`00:35.36`	`NAiL`	`of course. gimme a sec`
`00:35.46`	`DaKa2`	`:) no rush`
`00:36.23`	`DaKa2`	`I guess Im one of the few wanting this feature anyway`
`00:37.41`	`NAiL`	`it's in openslug-kernel 2.6.11.2 already. So when the kernel is changed back, it'll be built ;)`
`00:37.59`	`DaKa2`	`ah, good`
`00:38.26`	`DaKa2`	`and, linux doesnt seem to mind 4000 interfaces :)`
`00:38.39`	`rwhitby`	`NAiL: was postfix new, or existing in OE ?`
`00:39.32`	`rwhitby`	`kolla_: keeping pcmcia-cs was easier than changing bluez to not use it :-)`
`00:40.25`	`kolla_`	`aha :)`
`00:42.26`	`NAiL`	`rwhitby: existing`
`00:43.33`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * re04c6d4a... 10/packages/linux/nslu2-kernel/2.6.12/defconfig: Add CONFIG_VLAN`
`00:43.35`	`rwhitby`	`is the way of adding users the same for other OE distros? or did you do it in an openslug-only way?`
`00:45.15`	`NAiL`	`rwhitby: as long as they have adduser, it should be fine. busybox/tinylogin both work`
`00:45.44`	`NAiL`	`I can add a check so that it doesn't even try if there's no adduser`
`00:45.53`	`rwhitby`	`NAiL: that's something you should check with mickeyl then.`
`00:47.22`	`NAiL`	`ok`
`00:48.07`	`rwhitby`	`we have to be careful about assumptions about what other OE distros can do. We don't want to break a package for another distro because they are missing some feature that we start depending on.`
`00:54.44`	`jbowler-away`	`rwhitby: I don't see any problems with the 2.6.12 kernel, specifically there's nothing in slugbug about mtd corruption and I've been using it without any detectable problems for weeks now.`
`00:55.42`	`rwhitby`	`jbowler-away: but it's missing the serial console on boot. that's pretty serious.`
`00:55.57`	`jbowler-away`	`Is it? I don't see any problems.`
`00:56.23`	`rwhitby`	`you're seeing kernel boot messages on the serial console on boot?`
`00:57.20`	`jbowler-away`	`I don't have a serial console - jacques reported that as a problem several weeks ago, but no one seems to be motivated to fix it and it hasn't stopped anyone making progress...`
`00:57.52`	`jbowler-away`	`According to rumour (nothing seems to have been written down) it comes to life after boot.`
`00:58.01`	`rwhitby`	`ok, fair enough. maybe I'll get a chance to look at it sometime.`
`00:58.12`	`rwhitby`	`it comes to life after the pivot`
`00:58.56`	`rwhitby`	`ethernet didn't come up either after I flashed 2.0, and then did a reflash of the latest image I built from yesterday. but that could be a local problem - I haven't debugged it yet.`
`00:59.00`	`jbowler-away`	`Hum. That's useful information - it's consistent with what jacques said.`
`00:59.46`	`jbowler-away`	`eth0 - you maybe have a 2.6.11.2 ixp kernel module somehow.`
`01:00.16`	`jbowler-away`	`(It happens on incremental build - the ixp* packages don't get rebuilt unless they are cleaned).`
`01:00.24`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, that's what I was thinking.`
`01:00.48`	`rwhitby`	`I'm rebuilding openslug from scratch now`
`01:01.37`	`jbowler-away`	`That's why I sent the warning email - kernel changes are tricky and should probably always get a loud warning on the mailing list.`
`01:01.55`	`rwhitby`	`then will reflash that. Hmm - will have to transfer it over on a usb stick as I don't have a network connection :-)`
`01:02.12`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, this was on my test openslug - production is still at 1.12`
`01:02.33`	`rwhitby`	`(no reflection on 2.0, I just haven't had the time to migrate yet)`
`01:02.46`	`jbowler-away`	`My production slug is now at OpenSlug-2.0 (actually the monotone head) - I lost it two or three days ago (hence my absence ;-)`
`01:04.27`	`kolla_`	`hm, new error.. glib wants libxml`
`01:04.33`	`jbowler-away`	`NAiL: does that PREFERRED_VERSION_nslu2-kernel which you added in openslug.conf fail silently? (I haven't tried it.)`
`01:04.50`	`kolla_`	`nothing provides libxml`
`01:04.52`	`NAiL`	`not silently, it just states that that version is unavailable`
`01:05.13`	`jbowler-away`	`Ok, at least is says something...`
`01:05.58`	`rwhitby`	`jbowler-away: re nslu2-kernel - did you see my comments in the logs about that?`
`01:07.07`	`jbowler-away`	`kolla_: I can't debug slugbug 186, and I suspect it might be specific to your system - could you try adding --disable-docdir to EXTRA_OECONF? (It might just error out, but it might fix it.)`
`01:07.21`	`jbowler-away`	`rwhitby: no I didn't, approximately what date?`
`01:07.36`	`rwhitby`	`jbowler-away: nm - I'll summarise.`
`01:08.19`	`rwhitby`	`Basically, I'm wondering whether nslu2-kernel should be merged into openslug-kernel, and nslu2-kernel reserved for just being a container (rather than a kernel which is actually built) for stuff which is common between unslung and openslug kernels.`
`01:09.01`	`rwhitby`	`we can put versioned dirs for 2.6.12 under openslug-kernel, so they don't collide with 2.6.11`
`01:09.30`	`jbowler-away`	`It could be. The only reason I used it was because I was under the impression that [g2] was making an openslug-kernel_2.6.12 but I wanted to get 2.6.12 into testing.`
`01:09.39`	`rwhitby`	`it should be possible to add a new major non-preferred kernel version under openslug-kernel without affecting anything existing.`
`01:09.43`	`kolla_`	`jbowler-away: I did that`
`01:10.10`	`rwhitby`	`nslu2-kernel is simply ambiguous if it's being used for an openslug kernel.`
`01:10.23`	`kolla_`	`jbowler-away: but now something else showed up :)`
`01:10.25`	`jbowler-away`	`Exactly. I have the following three files sitting on my disk:`
`01:10.26`	`rwhitby`	`(the name of it is ambiguous)`
`01:10.40`	`jbowler-away`	`packages/linux/openslug-kernel-2.6.12/README`
`01:10.40`	`jbowler-away`	`packages/linux/openslug-kernel-2.6.12/defconfig`
`01:10.40`	`jbowler-away`	`packages/linux/openslug-kernel_2.6.12.bb`
`01:10.58`	`jbowler-away`	`The latter is exactly like nslu2-kernel_foo.bb (i.e. just a few lines)`
`01:11.30`	`rwhitby`	`ok, so you're on the way to the point I wanted to get to ....`
`01:11.35`	`jbowler-away`	`Actually, it only has one non-comment line ;-)`
`01:11.56`	`rwhitby`	`are there any files which are shared between unslung and openslug ?`
`01:11.59`	`rwhitby`	`(kernels)`
`01:12.08`	`jbowler-away`	`I think so - though whether nslu2-kernel would work without modification for unslung, I don't know`
`01:12.25`	`jbowler-away`	`shared files: I'm not sure.`
`01:12.36`	`rwhitby`	`can I propose that we migrate to 2.6.12 under openslug-kernel, and then deprecate nslu2-kernel ?`
`01:12.49`	`rwhitby`	`(and just keep openslug-kernel and unslung-kernel)`
`01:13.37`	`jbowler-away`	`Meaning using my version of openslug-kernel?`
`01:13.51`	`rwhitby`	`I think that even if there were shared files, it probably doesn't make sense to share them, as openslug will move forward, but unslung will probably not change much (especially if a new unslung release manager doesn't step up to the plate).`
`01:14.01`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, your version of openslug-kernel`
`01:14.11`	`jbowler-away`	`My version has this line:`
`01:14.13`	`jbowler-away`	`include nslu2-kernel_${PV}.bb`
`01:14.19`	`jbowler-away`	`(That's it)`
`01:14.34`	`rwhitby`	`oh, sorry. I mean copy the contents of nslu2-kernel across to openslug-kernel`
`01:14.47`	`rwhitby`	`and then deprecate nslu2-kernel`
`01:15.23`	`jbowler-away`	`The thing that line does is change the PN so that the FILES_PATH can pick up non-generic stuff. The reason for having nslu2-kernel is so that someone who wants to make something which is derived from openslug but is not openslug can do so with minimal work.`
`01:16.22`	`jbowler-away`	`So it means that 'jonslug' can be created with jonslug-kernel.bb and jonslug.conf - avoiding any possible confusion with openslug.`
`01:16.55`	`rwhitby`	`hmm - so you're saying that nslu2-kernel is the standard linux kernel on the nslu2 hardware, and that openslug is just one distro derived from that generic kernel`
`01:17.07`	`jbowler-away`	`Yes, that was my idea.`
`01:17.09`	`kolla_`	`this new error of glib wanting libxml.. is it just me?`
`01:17.42`	`rwhitby`	`jbowler-away: ok, I can see the sense in that. As long as openslug-image refers directly to openslug-kernel, and not to nslu2-kernel, then I'm happy with that.`
`01:18.26`	`jbowler-away`	`Yes - what I did was temporary. I think maybe I should just check in my openslug-kernel_2.6.12.bb (after making sure the defconfig is up-to-date.)`
`01:18.37`	`rwhitby`	`yeah`
`01:18.51`	`jbowler-away`	`bbl, time to make chile...`
`01:19.24`	`rwhitby`	`I thought Chile was already in existence ... somewhere in South America isn't it?`
`01:27.27`	`dyoung`	`that model will make it really easy for VoodooZ_Log to make his roboslug configuration.`
`01:27.56`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, it's a Good Plan from jbowler-away`
`01:28.28`	`rwhitby`	`VoodooZ_Log could even make a roboslug-broken-gpio.bb :-)`
`01:28.39`	`dyoung`	`hehe`
`01:29.08`	`rwhitby`	`... just in case anyone else blew up their gpio in the same way ...`
`01:29.23`	`dyoung`	`so we could in theory back port 2.6.11.2 to that model for those that are nervous about using 2.6.12 family kernels.`
`01:29.51`	`rwhitby`	`yep, Good Plan. Then they can set that specifically in their local.conf`
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`02:16.13`	`Christopher`	`hey, anyone here?`
`02:16.33`	`rwhitby`	`yep`
`02:17.15`	`Christopher`	`I think I might be able to get us hosted by the open source lab at my university, we would have to provide the box`
`02:17.34`	`Christopher`	`They would provide us with bandwidth and other services though`
`02:18.11`	`Christopher`	`I met a guy this summer who works there and he said that they are trying to host more embedded projects`
`02:20.21`	`Christopher`	`is it something you guys would be interested in?`
`02:21.39`	`rwhitby`	`Christopher: yes, we are interested`
`02:22.02`	`rwhitby`	`do you have a URL with details?`
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`02:23.25`	`Christopher`	`rwhitby: http://osuosl.org/`
`02:23.35`	`Christopher`	`that is the home page`
`02:24.03`	`rwhitby`	`ok, good. we've been looking at that in the past, and have just needed someone with the right connections to make it happen.`
`02:24.34`	`Christopher`	`yeah, I'll write the e-mail then and see what I can do`
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`02:43.17`	`Christopher`	`rwhitby: what is total daily bandwidth for the packages and wiki combined?`
`02:44.54`	`rwhitby`	`wiki is 300MB per day`
`02:45.11`	`Christopher`	`ok`
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`02:47.06`	`rwhitby`	`we peaked at 3GB per day for packages in May`
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`02:47.51`	`rwhitby`	`with the mirror infrastructure that is being set up, I'm not really sure that we need OSL hosting at the moment. So it would just be an initial discussion rather than an immediate need.`
`02:48.26`	`Christopher`	`ok`
`02:48.49`	`Christopher`	`I will phrase it in that way`
`02:48.55`	`rwhitby`	`and I'm not sure that we would move the wiki anyway.`
`02:49.12`	`Christopher`	`alright`
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`02:50.00`	`rwhitby`	`just make the contact, find out whether we would be acceptable, without making any commitment, and find out what we would get and what we would have to supply.`
`02:50.58`	`Christopher`	`ok`
`02:51.44`	`rwhitby`	`thx Christopher`
`02:51.51`	`Christopher`	`np`
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`02:58.24`	`CIA-8`	`03bzhou * 10unslung/ (Makefile make/gnupg.mk): gnupg ready for cross testing`
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`05:43.43`	`CIA-8`	`03jbowler 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * ree2ea524... 10/packages/bind/bind_9.3.1.bb:`
`05:43.43`	`CIA-8`	`Fix build break - bind apparently requires openssl for the configure`
`05:43.43`	`CIA-8`	`step to succeed, this breaks the osuclibc build (at least) because openssl`
`05:43.43`	`CIA-8`	`is not built (before bind).`
`05:43.45`	`CIA-8`	`03jbowler 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * re94fdb8f... 10/ (5 files in 4 dirs):`
`05:43.45`	`CIA-8`	`Official openslug-kernel_2.6.12`
`05:43.46`	`CIA-8`	`This is simply a copy of the nslu2-kernel_2.6.12 with one (minor) change`
`05:43.48`	`CIA-8`	`to the defconfig to include the ACM kernel module (lost in the nslu2-kernel`
`05:43.50`	`CIA-8`	`defconfig).`
`05:46.22`	`jbowler-away`	`Dang, that last change also includes a fix for the 'libxml' build break (should have been libxml2 in openslug-packages).`
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`07:05.21`	`jbowler-zzz`	`NAiL: adduser takes a number of interesting, undocumented, options... --system is probably very useful, along with --no-create-home`
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`07:49.17`	`jacques`	`jbot, test`
`07:49.17`	`jbot`	`Test Passed!`
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`08:34.29`	`CIA-8`	`03dyoung 07org.nslu2-linux.dev * r1972dc78... 10/Makefile: Fix the bitbake fixing line`
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`10:28.41`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * r49e8d85b... 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fix samba LINUX_LFS problem in a proper way. FIXES #58 (OE)`
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`11:05.14`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * r36acbbe1... 10/ (77 files in 57 dirs):`
`11:05.14`	`CIA-8`	`propagate from branch 'org.openembedded.dev' (head ef5052f6f05fb50a73e1535b3bfe8a3458070397)`
`11:05.14`	`CIA-8`	`<PROTECTED>`
`11:26.30`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux rwhitby-away (~rwhitby@rwhitby.nslu2-linux)`
`11:28.45`	`CIA-8`	`03nail 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * ree06322d... 10/packages/linux/openslug-kernel-2.6.12/defconfig: Added CONFIG_VLAN_8021Q, required for vlan package`
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`11:32.30`	`rwhitby`	`FWIXP420BL <- "L" for Linksys ?`
`11:33.38`	`NAiL`	`I was wondering about that`
`11:35.00`	`rwhitby`	`Obviously Intel has found out about out de-underclocking, and has quickly pushed through a chip revision to counter our nefarious activities.`
`11:35.14`	`NAiL`	`hahah`
`11:39.08`	`jacques`	`L for Low speed :-)`
`11:41.14`	`jacques`	`geez would suck if newer ones weren't 266MHz capable`
`11:43.49`	`NAiL`	`Where did the BB number come from? I've got a BL`
`11:44.24`	`jacques`	`ah cool, and it's running at 266MHz?`
`11:44.27`	`NAiL`	`yes`
`11:44.37`	`NAiL`	`It's the first slug I deunderclocked`
`11:44.56`	`NAiL`	`Does anyone have a BB?`
`11:45.59`	`rwhitby`	`http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/uploads/NSLU2-board-front-hires.jpg <- this one does`
`11:46.10`	`NAiL`	`oh`
`11:47.03`	`NAiL`	`Anyone else have a BL? The BL one I have was the one I removed R64 from, not R83`
`11:47.17`	`rwhitby`	`back in a bit - time to upgrade home.rwhitby.net to openslug 2.1 latest ...`
`11:56.12`	`jacques`	`NAiL, does your BL id as B0 stepping in cpuinfo?`
`11:56.43`	`jacques`	`oh hmm that's not in there`
`11:57.15`	`jacques`	`what about these:`
`11:57.20`	`jacques`	`CPU variant : 0x0`
`11:57.20`	`jacques`	`CPU part : 0x41f`
`11:57.20`	`jacques`	`CPU revision : 1`
`11:57.23`	`NAiL`	`Both my slugs are BL actually`
`11:57.51`	`NAiL`	`CPU variant : 0x0`
`11:57.51`	`NAiL`	`CPU part : 0x41f`
`11:57.51`	`NAiL`	`CPU revision : 1`
`11:58.06`	`jacques`	`tho I dunno what mine is`
`11:58.14`	`NAiL`	`Probably BL ;)`
`12:21.42`	`NAiL`	`rwhitby: whose slug is that in the picture?`
`12:21.54`	`rwhitby`	`NAiL: allan's`
`12:22.10`	`rwhitby`	`actually, it could be [g2]'s slug which got salted`
`12:22.24`	`NAiL`	`oh`
`12:40.56`	`VoodooZ_work`	`morning`
`12:41.20`	`NAiL`	`VoodooZ_work: morning`
`12:48.37`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux Tiersten (tman@Tiersten.nslu2-linux)`
`12:52.33`	`DaKa2`	`all mine are BL`
`12:59.55`	`Tiersten`	`They're all BL. L is the speed grade`
`13:00.06`	`Tiersten`	`It identifies itself as a BB via JTAG`
`13:02.28`	`DaKa2`	`so.. L = 133?`
`13:02.45`	`DaKa2`	`C = 400, D = 533..`
`13:02.49`	`Tiersten`	`No. We don't know what it stands for`
`13:03.02`	`DaKa2`	`A should be 133..`
`13:03.26`	`Tiersten`	`No point speculating as we don't know what it stands for and they've always been like that`
`13:03.42`	`DaKa2`	`and, things work, so why complain :)`
`13:03.47`	`Tiersten`	`It doesn't appear to be a custom Linksys part as a couple random electronics supply houses in China/Hong Kong have supplies of them`
`13:04.21`	`DaKa2`	`yeah, saw that`
`13:04.27`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)`
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`13:15.26`	`VoodooZ_work`	`Strange. I'm trying to update my monotone repo and it's stuff at: monotone: [bytes in: 485.6k] [bytes out: 46.1k] [certs in: 427] [revs in: 133]`
`13:15.34`	`VoodooZ_work`	`s/stuff/stuck/`
`13:15.48`	`NAiL`	`not strange`
`13:15.58`	`NAiL`	`It'll take ages to check all 133 revs`
`13:15.59`	`VoodooZ_work`	`well, it's been a quote a few minutes./`
`13:16.06`	`NAiL`	`Give it 10-15`
`13:16.10`	`VoodooZ_work`	`damn.`
`13:16.13`	`NAiL`	`yes`
`13:16.24`	`VoodooZ_work`	`How hard is it to put a stupid ticker or some progress indicator!`
`13:16.36`	`NAiL`	`I really hope there's some work to speed up that a bit`
`13:16.42`	`VoodooZ_work`	`yeah.`
`13:17.03`	`VoodooZ_work`	`I wonder if it takes advantage of SMP capbable system?`
`13:17.05`	`NAiL`	`I don't think the monotone guys would mind if you hacked up a patch and sent them ;)`
`13:17.21`	`NAiL`	`I don't think so... afaik it doesn't run any extra threads`
`13:17.23`	`VoodooZ_work`	`hehehehe :) I doubt I'd even be able to find my way around!`
`13:20.19`	`VoodooZ_work`	`ok. It finally finished.`
`13:22.38`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux rwhitby-away (~rwhitby@rwhitby.nslu2-linux)`
`14:03.39`	`CIA-8`	`03rwhitby 07org.nslu2-linux.dev * r16b09eea... 10/Makefile: Fixed the setup-developer targets`
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`14:16.51`	`VoodooZ_work`	`hey!`
`14:29.06`	`CIA-8`	`03rwhitby 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * rfa9875cd... 10/packages/linux/openslug-kernel_2.6.12.2.bb: Reinstated openslug-kernel 2.6.12.2`
`14:29.08`	`CIA-8`	`03rwhitby 07org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * rb44bd1f0... 10/packages/linux/openslug-kernel-2.6.12.2/ (README defconfig): Reinstated openslug-kernel 2.6.12.2 defconfig and README`
`14:30.10`	`VoodooZ_work`	`rwhitby, Any other big changes coming up?`
`14:31.19`	`rwhitby`	`nope, that's it. Dunno if it works, but it used to be 2.6.12.2 and it went backwards to 2.6.12 when we moved from nslu2-kernel to openslug-kernel.`
`14:31.40`	`VoodooZ_work`	`yeah, I was confused as to how to implement my private changes.`
`14:31.54`	`VoodooZ_work`	`So the nslu2-kernel stuff is obsolete now or?`
`14:35.10`	`rwhitby`	`nslu2-kernel is the generic linux kernel, targetted for generic nslu2 hardware.`
`14:35.27`	`rwhitby`	`openslug-kernel is a distro kernel which is derived from nslu2-kernel.`
`14:35.47`	`rwhitby`	`VoodooSlug-kernel would be another distro kernel derived from nslu2-kernel`
`14:37.29`	`VoodooZ_work`	`I see. I like it.`
`14:38.13`	`VoodooZ_work`	`So If I wanted to change the nslu2.h file I would change it in nslu2-kernel/2.6.? right?`
`14:38.24`	`VoodooZ_work`	`Or I guess I could apply my own patches.`
`14:38.41`	`rwhitby`	`depends if it's a change for everyone, or a change for voodooslug`
`14:38.56`	`VoodooZ_work`	`no, for myself only (dead I/O pin)`
`14:40.13`	`VoodooZ_work`	`but why is the nslu2.h file (and others) in nslu2-kernel/2.6.11.2 and not a general place?`
`14:40.43`	`rwhitby`	`dunno, I didn't put them there.`
`14:41.19`	`VoodooZ_work`	`a transitional thing I guess.`
`14:42.32`	`[g2]`	`uh-oh I'm in emacs`
`14:42.49`	`rwhitby`	`heh`
`14:43.23`	`VoodooZ_work`	`not emacs!! :)`
`14:44.39`	`rwhitby`	`[g2]: at last you're using a real operating system. Emacs :-)`
`14:44.46`	`VoodooZ_work`	`hehe`
`14:45.11`	`NAiL`	`[g2]: merging, are we?`
`14:45.41`	`[g2]`	`A merge came up. I'm staring at the emacs screen`
`14:45.48`	`NAiL`	`reminds me I haven't had the time to put up that howto yet`
`14:45.59`	`NAiL`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:46.06`	`NAiL`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:46.13`	`NAiL`	`rwhitby> ok, once it is finished, hit C-x C-c`
`14:46.23`	`NAiL`	`That got me all the way ;)`
`14:46.54`	`VoodooZ_work`	`Can we change it to Vim instead?`
`14:46.55`	`[g2]`	`well a and b n and p just beep`
`14:47.08`	`[g2]`	`I know how to get around VIM`
`14:47.23`	`VoodooZ_work`	`vim can do multiple windows too.`
`14:47.45`	`[g2]`	`and where's the highlighting ?`
`14:47.53`	`VoodooZ_work`	`There's got to me an env. var. like $EDITOR or something.`
`14:48.03`	`VoodooZ_work`	`syntax highlighting you mean?`
`14:48.12`	`[g2]`	`yeah for the diffs`
`14:48.20`	`VoodooZ_work`	`in emacs?`
`14:48.29`	`NAiL`	`[g2]: there's no highlighting at all? Have you pressed anything after you entered ediff (or whatever its called)?`
`14:48.54`	`[g2]`	`I closed a little window`
`14:49.12`	`NAiL`	`ah, ok. Then I think you've done the same as I did the first time`
`14:49.16`	`[g2]`	`there are highlights further down, but the key working`
`14:49.37`	`NAiL`	`I solved it this way: I opened another terminal, killed emacs, restarted :P`
`14:49.51`	`NAiL`	`then a/b/n/p/q worked`
`14:50.50`	`NAiL`	`not the nicest solution, but it works`
`14:51.05`	`NAiL`	`Gotta go eat dinner`
`14:51.10`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux eno-away (~eno-away@adsl-216-100-135-23.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)`
`14:52.25`	`VoodooZ_work`	`[g2], Would you say it's "totally" safe for me to flash apex on my slug at this point?`
`14:52.58`	`Tiersten`	`You got JTAG?`
`14:53.04`	`VoodooZ_work`	`nope.`
`14:53.07`	`Tiersten`	`Then no`
`14:53.10`	`VoodooZ_work`	`hehehe.`
`14:53.11`	`[g2]`	`VoodooZ_work, it's never "totally" safe doing anything with computers`
`14:54.19`	`Tiersten`	`Get a JTAG adapter, install the software, make it work and then it'll be "safe" as you can make it`
`14:55.11`	`VoodooZ_work`	`ok, then, let me rephrase the question: would it work fine with the current openslug after it's flashed?`
`14:55.48`	`rwhitby`	`apex has no interdependency with either openslug or unslung (or stock firmware for that matter)`
`14:55.53`	`VoodooZ_work`	`I just need to boot to the internal JFFS2 FLASH. no more. And in less time that redboot`
`14:56.22`	`VoodooZ_work`	`true but It might not support the FS in question. Just making sure.`
`14:57.02`	`VoodooZ_work`	`I just want to speed up the boot and save Flash in the process potentially.`
`14:57.12`	`Tiersten`	`It does support JFFS2 the last time I heard`
`14:57.28`	`VoodooZ_work`	`judging from the page it does.`
`14:57.49`	`rwhitby`	`night all`
`14:57.53`	`VoodooZ_work`	`night`
`14:58.01`	`Tiersten`	`Night`
`14:58.41`	`VoodooZ_work`	`[g2], you still boot off your openslug with apex right?`
`14:58.57`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Aargh, 2.6.12`
`14:59.12`	`VoodooZ_work`	`what's wrong with it?`
`14:59.12`	`[g2]`	`I don't have a 64MB Redboot so my TurboFat slug runs it almost all the time`
`14:59.13`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Sorry, dumb error.`
`14:59.22`	`rwhitby-asleep`	`jbowler-zzz: np - it's fixed now`
`14:59.32`	`jbowler-zzz`	`"2.6.12" was the old one - I meant to check in "2.6.12.2"`
`15:00.03`	`rwhitby-asleep`	`jbowler-zzz: are the actual files that are there correct, and just incorrectly named?`
`15:00.09`	`jbowler-zzz`	`VoodooZ_work: the nslu2 files should be in the 'oldset' place where they worked.`
`15:00.28`	`VoodooZ_work`	`[g2], I see. I'll read the apex page further to see what's involved. I just don't know how to configure it yet.`
`15:00.37`	`[g2]`	`VoodooZ_work, booting from the jffs2 is slower because it reads the nodes in the fs and has some decompression to do`
`15:00.39`	`VoodooZ_work`	`jbowler-zzz, oldset?`
`15:00.49`	`jbowler-zzz`	`rwhitby-asleep: yes, there was no dependency on the PV in the files`
`15:01.08`	`VoodooZ_work`	`[g2], ummm. still faster than redboot though right?`
`15:01.24`	`jbowler-zzz`	`VoodooZ_work: the versions which worked in openslug-kernel-2.6.11.2 are still used in later kernels.`
`15:01.37`	`VoodooZ_work`	`ok.`
`15:01.42`	`rwhitby-asleep`	`VoodooZ_work: s/oldset/oldest/`
`15:01.51`	`VoodooZ_work`	`:)`
`15:02.17`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Ah, fingers wroking out of sequence :)`
`15:02.23`	`[g2]`	`rwhitby-asleep, jbowler-zzz it appears that we are still building 2.6.12.2`
`15:02.23`	`VoodooZ_work`	`hehe`
`15:02.48`	`rwhitby-asleep`	`[g2]: that's correct. jbowler-zzz vouched for it :-)`
`15:02.52`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: no I glitched it, my build is 2.6.12 (I just checked), rwhitby fixed it to build 2.6.12.2 again`
`15:03.27`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2], rwhitby-asleep: it shows up in the build because ${S} is actually (should be) 2.6.12.2`
`15:03.48`	`CIA-8`	`03rwhitby 07org.nslu2-linux.dev * r2e199969... 10/Makefile: Broke some superfluous dependencies`
`15:05.19`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Need to check that this change is in: <CIA-8> nail org.openembedded.nslu2-linux * ree06322d... /packages/linux/openslug-kernel-2.6.12/defconfig: Added CONFIG_VLAN_8021Q, required for vlan package`
`15:06.11`	`[g2]`	`so we are building 2.6.12.2 with the old 11.2 patches with the broken serial I/O and possible flash corruption ?`
`15:07.53`	`jbowler-zzz`	`NAiL's VLAN change is there (the defconfigs are identical for 2.6.12 and 2.6.12.2, as they should be.)`
`15:08.38`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: no, the 11.2 patches don't all apply - it's building with the patches I have had since before OpenSlug-2.0 was released.`
`15:09.44`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: I've no evidence of memory corruption (i.e. I've been running with this kernel since before OpenSlug-2.0 release without any problems.)`
`15:10.18`	`[g2]`	`sweet dreams rwhitby-asleep`
`15:11.20`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: according to rwhitby the serial problem is still there in 2.6.12.2 (i.e no output until pivot_root, which I believe means that the kernel kprintf doesn't output to the serial line) - someone with a serial line needs to debug it. I suspect a config change (I would look at how kprintf puts the messages on both the serial and in the memory log).`
`15:12.05`	`[g2]`	`jbowler-zzz, it's a well known issue I think things need to be changed from uart to buart or something like that`
`15:14.28`	`[g2]`	`Before I was all up for moving to 2.6.12, however, after the potentential jffs2 mtd error was mentioned in #oe I think it we need to seriously its possible effects`
`15:15.57`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: shutdown -r also fails, both because the watchdog reset hangs (most of the time with a disk attached) and because I couldn't get soft reboot to work. This is slugbug 145.`
`15:16.30`	`[g2]`	`nod... that's still an open issue`
`15:16.52`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: openslug disk errors (irq26 - nobody cared) still happens, the slugbug (109) is marked as critical but I don't believe it (or I wouldn't be running OpenSlug-2.1+ on my central file server ;-)`
`15:17.18`	`[g2]`	`it's actually a "Significant" error`
`15:17.38`	`[g2]`	`but as you noted it's not critical`
`15:17.58`	`jbowler-zzz`	`'severity' on 109 is 'critical', not 'significant'. Hum, I'm going to fix that, it isn't critical.`
`15:18.50`	`[g2]`	`I'd been hoping Lennert would have that fixed by now`
`15:19.38`	`jacques`	`I was wondering why we don't build the kernel with preempt`
`15:19.59`	`jbowler-zzz`	`jacques: I tried, it crashed, but that was 2.6.11.8-mm4`
`15:20.39`	`[g2]`	`iirc there was some mention of issues with preempt on lak`
`15:21.06`	`VoodooZ_work`	`jacques, good question. I just modded my defconfig to enable it.`
`15:21.29`	`VoodooZ_work`	`Mine worked fine for 2 months with preempt.`
`15:21.37`	`Tiersten`	`Under heavy load?`
`15:22.21`	`jbowler-zzz`	`VoodooZ_work: which kernel?`
`15:22.24`	`VoodooZ_work`	`reading a usb2.0 camera at full speed and processing the image. and other stuff.`
`15:22.52`	`VoodooZ_work`	`probably 2.6.11.2 as I just switched to monotone last week and thus 2.6.12.`
`15:23.05`	`jbowler-zzz`	`My x86 gentoo system with preempt (2.6.11.3-mm4) fills /var/log/messages with whines about the device drivers not being preemptible`
`15:23.07`	`jacques`	`ah I forgot there were posts about it on lak`
`15:23.09`	`VoodooZ_work`	`I'll be doing more test this week with 2.6.12 and I'll let you know`
`15:23.33`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Eh? I didn't think preempty was in the kernel main line in 2.6.11`
`15:24.04`	`Tiersten`	`Unfortunately a lot of this stuff is only ever properly tested on x86`
`15:25.38`	`jbowler-zzz`	`CONFIG_PREEMPT is there in both 2.6.11.* and 2.6.12.*, but maybe the -mm stuff had something else. Also when I say 'crashed' I mean I didn't get to a dropbear prompt...`
`15:26.00`	`VoodooZ_work`	`Let me flash my new kernel and I'll run some tests.`
`15:27.41`	`jbowler-zzz`	`We've got a fixed set of device drivers, so getting it working safely is potentially a lot easier than on x86.`
`15:28.02`	`Tiersten`	`For the core stuff anyway. If you want other USB devices then you're on your own :)`
`15:28.15`	`Tiersten`	`I'm just worried about the IXP driver`
`15:28.46`	`Tiersten`	`Most of that is just one huge blackbox because of the lib`
`15:29.21`	`[g2]`	`I think lennert had a debugging interface setup for the NPEs`
`15:30.32`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: what systems have MTD problems on 2.6.12.2? (I'm thinking that if it is a driver issue it's almost certainly a non-issue for NSLU2)`
`15:31.20`	`NAiL`	`iirc, either pb_ or mickeyl mentioned it`
`15:31.43`	`NAiL`	`My log doesn't go back that far`
`15:31.45`	`[g2]`	`jbowler-zzz, mickeyl is in #openslug -- he was the one mentioning it was at the MTD layer`
`15:32.00`	`[g2]`	`we should ask him`
`15:32.07`	`NAiL`	`VoodooZ_work: which kernel, and why blind?`
`15:32.23`	`[g2]`	`because kernel serial output is busted in 2.6.12`
`15:32.27`	`VoodooZ_work`	`the latest and greatest. 2.6.12.2 w/ preempt.`
`15:32.28`	`jbowler-zzz`	`no serial until pivot_root?`
`15:32.29`	`VoodooZ_work`	`nod`
`15:33.06`	`VoodooZ_work`	`yep. no serial from "done booting the kernel" to "Openslug Booting.."`
`15:33.25`	`NAiL`	`well.. doesn't matter very often, does it? ;)`
`15:33.40`	`NAiL`	`only if you can't mount a root fs, or have done changes to the kernel ?`
`15:33.42`	`[g2]`	`that's very important to me`
`15:33.56`	`NAiL`	`I want serial as well`
`15:34.17`	`VoodooZ_work`	`yep.`
`15:34.23`	`jbowler-zzz`	`[g2]: edit your local.conf as described on the wiki to choose the kernel you want.`
`15:34.27`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux ByronT (ByronT@ByronT.nslu2-linux)`
`15:34.27`	`VoodooZ_work`	`booted fine with preempt.`
`15:34.46`	`jbowler-zzz`	`VoodooZ_work: do you have ethernet?`
`15:34.53`	`VoodooZ_work`	`yep.`
`15:35.20`	`VoodooZ_work`	`would uname -a mention the preempt option like modinfo does?`
`15:35.23`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Hum... Annoying that it can't be set in local.conf.`
`15:35.44`	`jbowler-zzz`	`jacques, VoodooZ_work: what are the arguments for CONFIG_PREEMPT?`
`15:36.00`	`jbowler-zzz`	`(The one against is that something may stop working...)`
`15:37.09`	`VoodooZ_work`	`jbowler-zzz, uh? in defconfig you mean? I only put CONFIG_PREEMPT=y.`
`15:38.57`	`VoodooZ_work`	`damn, I think my build got dirty or something as it won't load my preempt modules. Probably should have bb cleaned the packages. dope!`
`15:38.59`	`VoodooZ_work`	`brb`
`15:39.23`	`jbowler-zzz`	`I mean, are then any arguments for changing the OpenSlug release to use CONFIG_PREEMPT=y?`
`15:42.01`	`[g2]`	`Is anticipatory I/O in 2.6.x ? or just in the -mm series ?`
`15:44.23`	`VoodooZ_work`	`jbowler-zzz, no clue.`
`15:44.48`	`VoodooZ_work`	`[g2], yeah, that could be useful too.`
`15:45.27`	`[g2]`	`I would think we'd get our biggest gains from anticiptory I/O and USB/Ethernet optimizations`
`15:45.36`	`VoodooZ_work`	`It looks like my openslug build inserted the preempt version of the modules but the old non-preempt version of the kernel! dang!`
`15:46.19`	`Tiersten`	`that's not a good thing`
`15:46.57`	`VoodooZ_work`	`I messed up during the build`
`15:46.59`	`[g2]`	`there was mention in the Intel manual about locking data storage for the stack of an ISR to use the mini data cache area`
`15:47.22`	`Tiersten`	`we don't use that at all do we at the moment?`
`15:47.41`	`[g2]`	`I thought of the stack for the USB disk or for packet data`
`15:47.47`	`jbowler-zzz`	`No, only the standard kernel locking is done.`
`15:48.24`	`jbowler-zzz`	`The standard stuff only knows about locking vm pages, if I read it correctly.`
`15:48.25`	`[g2]`	`Also using the second NPE for DMA x-fers would might help offload the processor`
`15:49.07`	`[g2]`	`s/would might/might`
`15:51.41`	`[g2]`	`IMHO my guess is the biggest gain would come from the anticipatory I/O on a HD with a cache buffer`
`15:52.10`	`[g2]`	`or using the minicache for storing some of that data`
`15:52.22`	`[g2]`	`or actually the main data cache`
`15:53.40`	`[g2]`	`with a block size of 512 that'd be 4 blocks per 2K.`
`15:54.19`	`jbowler-zzz`	`NAiL: sounds like we need a generic solution to the 'install/strip' problem. I'm thinking that I can make a really dumb install-native which drops the correct shell script into staging/host/bin.`
`15:57.52`	`jbowler-zzz`	`NAiL: slugbug 190, assigned to me - feel free to grab it if you (or anyone) wants to fix it before I do...`
`15:59.05`	`[g2]`	`The default in the kernel 2.6 is the anticipatory scheduler.`
`16:00.42`	`jbowler-zzz`	`rwhitby-asleep: are you aware of a problem with default DHCP? I only have very limited environments in which to test it (so if anyone encounters any problems please enter a slugbug)`
`16:05.00`	`[g2]`	`grep "io scheduler" m`
`16:05.00`	`[g2]`	`io scheduler noop registered`
`16:05.00`	`[g2]`	`io scheduler deadline registered`
`16:05.17`	`[g2]`	`that's from the 2.6.11.2 kernel dmesg`
`16:09.51`	`jbowler-zzz`	`As I remember it there is little point having more than one scheduler and little point in having anything other than the smallest. I think we're using noop at present, but deadline is built too.`
`16:13.47`	`jbowler-zzz`	`Yes, it looks like the primary method of changing the scheduler is the kernel command line, though I thought there was a user space way to do it too.`
`16:14.29`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux marceln (~marceln@pion.xs4all.nl)`
`16:16.26`	`jbowler-zzz`	`NAiL: there may be a bug in the priority handling for the kernels, because it looks like kernel 2.6.12 is being build in preference to 2.6.12.2, might just be me...`
`16:23.57`	`jbowler-zzz`	`NAiL: false alarm, it's me`
`16:28.04`	`[g2]`	`I don't think we are building AS right now`
`16:28.22`	`[g2]`	`so we can't try it out without a rebuild`
`16:30.34`	`jbowler-zzz`	`That's correct.`
`17:00.28`	`VoodooZ_work`	`jbowler-zzz, yeah, would this explain why I had the wrong kernel in my final image?`
`17:01.01`	`VoodooZ_work`	`oops. sorry I didn't fast enough.`
`17:16.32`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux [cc]smart (~smart@gw.ptr-62-65-149-158.customer.ch.netstream.com)`
`17:46.31`	`VoodooZ_work`	`my roboslug seems to work fine with preempt right now.`
`19:07.01`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux AdamBaker (~aab@userch028.dsl.pipex.com)`
`19:13.24`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux jp30-work (~jp30@jp30.nslu2-linux)`
`19:40.01`	`NAiL`	`jbowler-zzz: yes, the generic solution sounds nice`
`19:42.37`	`NAiL`	`jbowler-zzz: At the moment I'm not gonna take on any more bugs. My ToDo list kills whichever wiki I try to put it on :-P`
`19:42.54`	`Tiersten`	`What do you mean by kill the wiki?`
`19:43.01`	`Tiersten`	`I've been meaning to ask you about that`
`19:43.24`	`NAiL`	`Well, not kill it, but it cuts off the text and adds an �`
`19:43.34`	`NAiL`	`"�"`
`19:43.45`	`Tiersten`	`Email me what you're trying to add`
`19:43.47`	`NAiL`	`It apparently only happens to me though`
`19:45.40`	`NAiL`	`Tiersten: mail sent`
`19:46.18`	`NAiL`	`uhm... trying to send, actually`
`19:46.31`	`Tiersten`	`How big IS this?`
`19:47.11`	`NAiL`	`not that big.. like a couple of pages`
`19:47.19`	`Tiersten`	`It should be fine then`
`19:47.20`	`NAiL`	`There are bigger pages on the wiki afaik`
`19:48.19`	`NAiL`	`What happens is basically this:`
`19:48.31`	`NAiL`	`I have a page that is somewhat long, and add a few lines`
`19:48.45`	`NAiL`	`When I press save, it doesn't save, and just returns me to the edit page`
`19:48.55`	`Tiersten`	`It should print out something`
`19:48.59`	`NAiL`	`but the text in the textbox has now been cut off`
`19:49.12`	`NAiL`	`and been replaced by a single "�"`
`19:49.13`	`Tiersten`	`You sent the email yet?`
`19:49.24`	`NAiL`	`I seem to be having mail server woes`
`19:49.39`	`NAiL`	`It doesn't say anything about any error either... that's what's bugging me`
`19:49.54`	`Tiersten`	`you got weird 8 bit chars in this or something?`
`19:49.55`	`NAiL`	`hmm.. I think I'm gonna restart the mailserver`
`19:50.01`	`Tiersten`	`it's definitely something on your end...`
`19:50.04`	`NAiL`	`yes`
`19:50.07`	`NAiL`	`well`
`19:50.20`	`NAiL`	`I can't understand what`
`19:51.09`	`NAiL`	`aha`
`19:51.34`	`NAiL`	`The mail was sent when I switched off the hardware firewall`
`19:52.05`	`Tiersten`	`You doing some sort of transparent filtering?`
`19:52.12`	`Tiersten`	`Not so transparent anyway`
`19:52.28`	`NAiL`	`Apparently not very good`
`19:52.39`	`NAiL`	`The wiki thing works now`
`19:53.04`	`NAiL`	`Did you get the mail?`
`19:53.57`	`Tiersten`	`yes`
`19:54.03`	`NAiL`	`ok`
`19:54.16`	`Tiersten`	`what firewall you using?`
`19:54.35`	`NAiL`	`It's the onboard NVidia stuff... I just hadn't switched it off`
`19:55.24`	`Tiersten`	`Sounds a bit crap if it can't even pass basic HTML through...`
`19:55.45`	`NAiL`	`yes`
`19:56.11`	`NAiL`	`Wonder if a BIOS update or something fixes it... no idea how it actually works`
`19:57.50`	`Tiersten`	`Might want to try the drivers as well`
`19:59.03`	`NAiL`	`yeah, only I updated them yesterday :P`
`19:59.51`	`NAiL`	`oh well.. Integrated stuff is bad. It's not exactly the reason I bought this card. I only found out after installing that it had a firewall-thingy`
`20:01.51`	`NAiL`	`(and it'n not like I'm the one that paid for it)`
`20:05.25`	`Tiersten`	`Wasn't the integrated firewall supposed to be one of the big features of the nvidia range? :)`
`20:05.38`	`NAiL`	`heh`
`20:05.42`	`NAiL`	`Possibly`
`20:05.46`	`Tiersten`	`Any way of configuring it not to fiddle with HTML content as it goes past?`
`20:06.10`	`NAiL`	`No idea.. I've barely looked at it.. It's actually using apache for configuration ;)`
`20:06.22`	`[cc]smart`	`hi all... somebody willing ot care about /var on tmpfs issue ?`
`20:06.26`	`Tiersten`	`that's interesting`
`20:07.08`	`[cc]smart`	`and all got quiet :)`
`20:07.39`	`NAiL`	`[cc]smart: I'm very interested. I vote for most of var on disk, but log, run and tmp on ramfs. :)`
`20:08.00`	`[cc]smart`	`me,too. just a hero needed to do it :)`
`20:08.03`	`NAiL`	`That'll leave spool, mysql, and other stuff like that persistent`
`20:08.52`	`[cc]smart`	`sigh`
`20:08.59`	`[cc]smart`	`will think about it tomorrow`
`20:09.10`	`[cc]smart`	`in any case, it seems cyrus stuff wil come out nice.`
`20:09.15`	`NAiL`	`yeah`
`20:09.25`	`NAiL`	`btw, what user does cyrus need?`
`20:09.45`	`[cc]smart`	`typicaly it's caled cyrus and simply is any non prioviledged account`
`20:09.58`	`[cc]smart`	`dunno if there is an informal agreed uid used`
`20:10.12`	`NAiL`	`I talked to mickeyl about creating users in ipkg, and he gave me a small task.. Standardize the way to do it for all of OE :P`
`20:10.50`	`[cc]smart`	`i would have thought there should be a "sample" passwd file`
`20:11.07`	`[cc]smart`	`where all the system accounts possible form a default setting`
`20:11.27`	`NAiL`	`yeah, I had started doing that with base-passwd`
`20:11.29`	`[cc]smart`	`then in .bb scripts there would be like a new variable that would name the accounts needed by the package`
`20:11.58`	`[cc]smart`	`so oyu still in the ned only have accounts you need`
`20:12.20`	`NAiL`	`but it looks like the better way is to create a new .bbclass that makes it easy to implement in each ipk that is installed`
`20:12.46`	`NAiL`	`how'd you plan on updating the passwd on an already installed system?`
`20:13.22`	`[cc]smart`	`no different. you could prepend a wite out of a passwd line by the deletion of that same one`
`20:14.42`	`NAiL`	`I'm not sure I get what you're talking about. If that solution was in place now, and you have just flashed openslug. If I then add a package in OE, and do the passwd mumbo-jumbo, will my change end up in your passwd file when you install the ipkg?`
`20:14.54`	`NAiL`	`Just using adduser is simpler, no?`
`20:15.10`	`[cc]smart`	`like grep -v cyrus: /etc/passwd >/tmp/passwd; echo "cyrus:...." >> /tmp/passwd; cp /tmp/passwd /etc/passwd`
`20:15.27`	`NAiL`	`not good idea`
`20:15.29`	`NAiL`	`well`
`20:15.35`	`NAiL`	`I thought about that`
`20:15.45`	`NAiL`	`But how do you guarantee that the UID isn't already taken?`
`20:16.04`	`[cc]smart`	`that's the job of the master passwd file in OE repository`
`20:16.21`	`NAiL`	`How can that file know what users have been added to the local system?`
`20:16.46`	`[cc]smart`	`nonono`
`20:16.50`	`[cc]smart`	`exampl:`
`20:17.08`	`[cc]smart`	`you add a new file to OE: openembedded/files/passwd.master`
`20:17.30`	`[cc]smart`	`passwd.master contains all possible system accounts as goes:`
`20:17.46`	`[cc]smart`	`root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash`
`20:17.53`	`NAiL`	`I get that part`
`20:17.55`	`[cc]smart`	`squid:x:31:31:Squid:/var/cache/squid:/bin/false`
`20:17.58`	`[cc]smart`	`and so on`
`20:18.03`	`[cc]smart`	`including cyrus and whatnot`
`20:18.13`	`NAiL`	`mysql, ntpd, postfix, you name it`
`20:18.25`	`[cc]smart`	`then in your package dependent .bb file you introduce a new variable:`
`20:18.40`	`[cc]smart`	`USED_SYSTEM_ACCOUNTS = "cyrus"`
`20:18.43`	`Tiersten`	`cyrus is more complicated. I think you need to set a password for the cyrus user since it's the default admin.`
`20:19.14`	`NAiL`	`Tiersten: Ok, that can be handled by the ipkg. If not automatically, prompt the user to do so.`
`20:19.28`	`[cc]smart`	`then the pipkg adds a line in passwd, a line in shadow and possibly lines in group which are associated with that user`
`20:19.52`	`[cc]smart`	`you can per se let this system write a default passwd`
`20:20.04`	`[cc]smart`	`it's alread in the passwd.master shadow.master group.master`
`20:20.16`	`DaKa2`	`hm.. should I write something in the wiki about using sane and vlans?`
`20:20.51`	`[cc]smart`	`DaKa2: if there is OE/slug specific information`
`20:20.52`	`[cc]smart`	`sure`
`20:21.07`	`[cc]smart`	`if general only, i like the ease of linking :)`
`20:21.33`	`DaKa2`	`well, atleast a bit oe/slug specific`
`20:21.52`	`[cc]smart`	`then you'll prolly have happy readers on the page`
`20:22.20`	`DaKa2`	`hm.. ok, bb when I have something on "paper"`
`20:22.53`	`[cc]smart`	`now what i don't know is iif you guys think the master file approach makes sense`
`20:22.57`	`[cc]smart`	`dunno really either`
`20:23.03`	`[cc]smart`	`but at least its an idea .)`
`20:23.32`	`DaKa2`	`does it matter if the info is specific for openslug? dont have unslung on anything..`
`20:23.52`	`[cc]smart`	`you can decide where to introduce the page :)`
`20:24.00`	`DaKa2`	`good`
`20:26.06`	`[cc]smart`	`goto(bed); sleep(8)`
`20:26.19`	`DaKa2`	`8 seconds?`
`20:26.23`	`DaKa2`	`damn..`
`20:26.24`	`[cc]smart`	`hrhr`
`20:26.38`	`NAiL`	[cc]smart: goto(bed); sleep(`echo $(8*3600)`)
`20:26.46`	`DaKa2`	`thats better`
`20:27.05`	`DaKa2`	`gn`
`20:27.07`	`NAiL`	or, cd /dev/bed && sleep(`echo $(8*3600)`)
`20:27.24`	`[cc]smart`	`cat consciousnes >/dev/null`
`20:27.58`	`DaKa2`	`cat /dev/urandom > /dev/brain`
`20:28.23`	`[cc]smart`	`dd if=/dev/random/alcohol of=/dev/bloodstream bs=kettle count=50`
`20:28.59`	`DaKa2`	`... not good..`
`20:29.06`	`DaKa2`	`mv [cc]smart /dev/hospital`
`20:29.13`	`[cc]smart`	`:)`
`20:29.53`	`[cc]smart`	`nuff crazy stuff for today. need some left for tomorrow...`
`20:29.58`	`[cc]smart`	`n8`
`20:30.01`	`DaKa2`	`:) hehe. nite`
`20:30.54`	`marceln`	`I have a small question about busybox?`
`20:32.02`	`marceln`	`I have a script which is a factor slower in busybox then in bash.`
`20:32.28`	`marceln`	`I think the problem is that busybox forks for [ ... ] and bash not.`
`21:01.31`	`marceln`	`What is the configuration for /bin/busybox (not the 1.0 /opt/bin/busybox)`
`21:12.17`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux hannesr (~hannes@skynet.csn.ul.ie)`
`21:13.48`	`hannesr`	`hi people. I had problems building cron using the openslug-2.0 tarball. I made a patch that fixes the problem. Who/where can I usefully send this patch to?`
`21:15.45`	`NAiL`	`hannesr: you can send it to me`
`21:15.56`	`NAiL`	`but I think I might already have fixed this`
`21:16.01`	`NAiL`	`What caused it not to compile?`
`21:16.43`	`hannesr`	`error from GNU strip`
`21:16.47`	`NAiL`	`aha`
`21:16.56`	`NAiL`	`in do_install, I assume?`
`21:16.59`	`hannesr`	`it was calling the build machine's strip on a target binary`
`21:17.02`	`hannesr`	`that's the one`
`21:17.11`	`NAiL`	`exactly.. how did you fix it? :)`
`21:17.47`	`hannesr`	`I added a patch to cron's makefile that makes it use an explicit "strip" instead of "install -s".`
`21:18.38`	`hannesr`	`then I passed the "make" a "STRIP=${TARGET_SYS}-strip" from the .bb file, so it uses the right strip binary`
`21:19.01`	`hannesr`	`(the makefile calls it as "$(STRIP)")`
`21:19.13`	`NAiL`	`aha`
`21:19.37`	`NAiL`	`jbowler-zzz: ping?`
`21:20.01`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux VoodooZ (~VoodooZ@CPE00c0f021712c-CM014110003785.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`21:20.16`	`NAiL`	`we have an alternate solution, but I'd say yours is better`
`21:20.21`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, good find`
`21:20.57`	`hannesr`	`okay, can I mail someone a patch?`
`21:21.09`	`NAiL`	`just send it to nail@nslu2-linux.org`
`21:21.18`	`[g2]`	`if I may ask, what are you planning on using openslug for ?`
`21:21.34`	`[g2]`	`(other that some periodic task) :)`
`21:21.52`	`hannesr`	`at the moment, I have a slug as a backup server for a few unix boxes`
`21:22.02`	`hannesr`	`hence the need for cron :=)`
`21:22.15`	`jp30-work`	`hannesr, NAiL, sorry if you have already thought of this or if it's irrelevant, but autotooled packages should use install-sh to cross-strip. if you are working on an autotooled package, the right move may be to autoreconf with automake 1.6 or greater`
`21:22.17`	`[g2]`	`so you periodically pull stuff`
`21:22.22`	`hannesr`	`once that's sorted, I want it to play mp3s...`
`21:22.43`	`hannesr`	`g2, yeah, using rsnapshot (perl script around rsync)`
`21:23.02`	`[g2]`	`I'm guessing you built perl natively`
`21:23.03`	`NAiL`	`jp30-work: I'm not that much into this really, gonna talk to jbowler about it. He's been adding install-sh scripts to a few packages that break this way.`
`21:23.09`	`hannesr`	`jp30-work, cron doesn't use autotools, unfortunately`
`21:24.07`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, rsync from the feed ?`
`21:24.37`	`hannesr`	`g2, nope, got a workaround for the cross-compiled version (see http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/OpenSlug/ReleaseNotes2x0)`
`21:24.57`	`NAiL`	`hannesr: I'd be very interested in hearing what packages you are using that works, and what doesn't work. I'm trying to clean up the stable feed a bit.`
`21:25.05`	`hannesr`	`g2, yes rsync from the feed... why, is it broken?`
`21:25.15`	`[g2]`	`I don't think so`
`21:25.46`	`hannesr`	`NAiL, I was working with an old bitkeeper checkout until recently, I'm just in the process of upgrading to the 2.0 version`
`21:26.20`	`NAiL`	`hannesr: ok, I'd be happy for bugreports if you run into problems ;)`
`21:26.28`	`hannesr`	`So far I haven't seen anything broken other than perl and the cron build.`
`21:26.43`	`hannesr`	`I'll be sure to let you know if I see other badness.`
`21:27.08`	`NAiL`	`thanks`
`21:27.29`	`[g2]`	`and you are aware of #openslug right ? :)`
`21:28.05`	`hannesr`	`g2, I wasn't - is this channel supposed to be unslung-focused, or what's the diff?`
`21:28.23`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, so you did the "echo /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 > /etc/ld.so.preload"`
`21:28.29`	`hannesr`	`yep`
`21:28.55`	`hannesr`	`I can't say I understand what it side-effects it may have, but it's been working for me :)`
`21:29.02`	`[g2]`	`We talk openslug in both`
`21:29.06`	`hannesr`	`(i just googled it up)`
`21:30.13`	`[g2]`	`but if you're openslug only I wanted you to be aware of the channel`
`21:32.39`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, are you using nfs something else to pull the files ?`
`21:33.14`	`hannesr`	`rsync over ssh, with passwordless keys (ugh)`
`21:33.48`	`[g2]`	`ugh because it's slow with ssh ?`
`21:34.21`	`hannesr`	`more ugh because of the security implications of the passwordless keys.`
`21:34.21`	`[g2]`	`or ugh because you don't like using the passwordless keys`
`21:34.39`	`hannesr`	`although I have a script to at least limit them to running "only" rsync`
`21:35.16`	`hannesr`	`slowness isn't a problem for pulling backups, unless there's a _lot_ to back up...`
`21:35.38`	`[g2]`	`well different ppl backup different things :)`
`21:35.40`	`hannesr`	`anyway, rsync makes it fast again, as it intelligently checks for changes`
`21:35.50`	`[g2]`	`nod. there`
`21:35.58`	`[g2]`	`after the initial sync`
`21:36.18`	`hannesr`	`... so even running it on 25 gigs of mp3s is tolerable :-)`
`21:36.55`	`[g2]`	`hmmm... I'd guess that'd be around 6K songs`
`21:37.35`	`hannesr`	`it's scary what builds up over time.`
`21:38.15`	`[g2]`	`it's scary that an 80G external HD is < $99`
`21:39.27`	`[g2]`	`you'be probably got no plans to use samba or nfs then right ?`
`21:39.45`	`hannesr`	`g2, not anytime soon`
`21:40.01`	`[g2]`	`Ok... Well THX a bunch for all the answers`
`21:40.15`	`hannesr`	`there are some windows users in the house that could benefit from sambe, but i don't think I'll bother...`
`21:40.26`	`[g2]`	`Openslugger's are a special breed`
`21:40.39`	`[g2]`	`we don't hear a whole bunch from them`
`21:40.42`	`hannesr`	`"special" is right...`
`21:41.28`	`[g2]`	`as a dev I'm always curious what ppl are really doing with the box`
`21:41.29`	`hannesr`	`I'll be sure to pop in if I come across / break anything interesting.`
`21:41.39`	`[g2]`	`cool. thx`
`21:41.54`	`hannesr`	`(or when i'm finally looking for someone with a jtag ;-)`
`21:42.04`	`dyoung`	`JTAG is my friend.`
`21:42.10`	`[g2]`	`are you interested in JTAG at all ?`
`21:42.20`	`[g2]`	`JTAG is my friend too`
`21:42.38`	`hannesr`	`I meant "when I manage to accidentally erase redboot"`
`21:42.52`	`[g2]`	`probably unlikely`
`21:42.52`	`hannesr`	`it's only a question of time...`
`21:42.52`	`dyoung`	`hehe at least for you it would have been an accident....`
`21:43.12`	`dyoung`	`for me it's, "When I intentionally blow away redboot...."`
`21:43.14`	`[g2]`	`APEX is quite nice though :)`
`21:43.17`	`hannesr`	`which reminds me - what's the difficulty in upgrading the kernel image without reflashing everything?`
`21:43.48`	`[g2]`	`it's gotten much better`
`21:44.01`	`[g2]`	`there are just minor tracking issues`
`21:44.32`	`hannesr`	`i had a quick go at stuffing it in there using redboot (fis write blah), but after I did that the "boot" fell down in a heap.`
`21:44.50`	`dyoung`	`gotta keep the modules straight.`
`21:45.03`	`hannesr`	`so I guess you can't just write a zImage into the flash partition and expect it to work`
`21:45.16`	`[g2]`	`I think jbowler-zzz added a kernel update command`
`21:45.35`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, actually that's what I do with APEX`
`21:46.06`	`[g2]`	`I can ipkg update the zImage and the kernel-modules that are installed with a dest of /initrd`
`21:46.07`	`hannesr`	`g2, which is where your fried jtag comes in`
`21:46.18`	`hannesr`	`nice`
`21:46.38`	`[g2]`	`actually, I've been running APEX for months on the SLUGs but I don't have JTAG there yet`
`21:47.00`	`hannesr`	`brave.`
`21:47.03`	`[g2]`	`however, I did test it out on an OEM board and worked with beewookie`
`21:47.16`	`[g2]`	`and the OEM board had JTAG`
`21:47.41`	`[g2]`	`so it was only after lots of testing and others like dyoung and run it on the NSLU2`
`21:48.08`	`[g2]`	`heh bewookie`
`21:48.14`	`[g2]`	`that's beewoolie`
`21:48.15`	`CIA-8`	`03marceln * 10unslung/sources/ipkg-web/package.cgi: A web front end for ipkg`
`21:48.34`	`hannesr`	`lol, a wookie with yellow and black stripes..`
`21:48.43`	`[g2]`	`LOL`
`21:49.04`	`[g2]`	`depending on how security concious you are, APEX is a nice update in that regard`
`21:49.45`	`hannesr`	`why security? is it apex network-accessible?`
`21:50.13`	`[g2]`	`no network accessibilty and no back doors`
`21:50.21`	`[g2]`	`like upslug`
`21:50.49`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux beewoolie-afk (~beewoolie@florence.buici.com)`
`21:50.57`	`[g2]`	`sometimes security and useability are opposing one another`
`21:50.58`	`hannesr`	`right, upslug is a bit worrying if you have h4X0rs on your local network`
`21:51.17`	`[g2]`	`or if some just gets on the box`
`21:51.38`	`[g2]`	`they can trash the kernel part and reboot and it comes up waiting for an image`
`21:51.49`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie-afk, HEY`
`21:51.58`	`[g2]`	`I guess your ears were burning :)`
`21:52.06`	`hannesr`	`or they can just reboot and telet to redboot for real fun`
`21:52.07`	`dyoung`	`Hey beewookie.`
`21:52.23`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, there's a timing issue there`
`21:52.57`	`[g2]`	`beewoolie-afk, I don't know if it's in the stable feed but samba is all worked out`
`21:53.16`	`[g2]`	`thanks to NAiL jbowler-zzz et. al.`
`21:53.22`	`dyoung`	`beewookie-afk, nfs should be workable too.`
`21:53.30`	`[g2]`	`nfs was fixed too`
`21:53.36`	`[g2]`	`nfs-utils this`
`21:53.51`	`[g2]`	`but I don't know if they are pushed to the stable feed or not`
`21:54.04`	`[g2]`	`NAiL, ???`
`21:54.19`	`[g2]`	`hannesr, NAiL's the openslug package mgr`
`21:54.33`	`[g2]`	`morning sunshine!`
`21:58.46`	`rwhitby`	`jbowler-zzz: no problem with openslug dhcp as far as I am aware - it worked fine - I just forgot :-)`
`22:10.30`	`[g2]`	`jbowler-zzz, so "reflash -j jffs2.image" is my friend correct ?`
`22:10.36`	`beewoolie-afk`	`[g2]: K. I'll see if it pulls.`
`22:11.26`	`[g2]`	`On samba I just needed to copy the samba.cnf example in /etc/samba and do a little editing`
`22:11.37`	`[g2]`	`and create a smbpaswd`
`22:11.46`	`[g2]`	`and /etc/init.d/samba start`
`22:12.06`	`[g2]`	`quite fun actually`
`22:12.59`	`[g2]`	`and with the gphoto2 stuff working I think I'll be able to setup something for automatic dl'ing of the digital camera`
`22:14.04`	`rwhitby`	`[g2]: reflash -i foo.img is a better friend, cause then you get the right modules too`
`22:16.27`	`[g2]`	`rwhitby, I'm looking to go kernel partition less`
`22:16.54`	`[g2]`	`and the modules are in the jffs2 partition no ?`
`22:16.55`	`rwhitby`	`ah, ok, - cool`
`22:37.24`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux ByronT (~byron-por@ByronT.nslu2-linux)`
`22:43.29`	`NAiL`	`samba in the stable feed is worked out`
`22:44.01`	`NAiL`	`hannesr: It might be possible to implement the strip-stuff in a bbclass, so it's not so ugly`
`22:44.52`	`NAiL`	`hannesr: .ie btw? Do you live there? Lived in Cork for 13 months :)`
`22:45.10`	`hannesr`	`that would probably be the cleanest, if you could just do "inherit strip" or similar`
`22:45.17`	`NAiL`	`exactly`
`22:45.24`	`hannesr`	`I used to live in Limerick`
`22:45.40`	`NAiL`	`Ah, the place I never got around to going to :P`
`22:45.58`	`hannesr`	`you missed an opportunity to get stabbed...`
`22:46.30`	`hannesr`	`I'm in .de now.`
`22:47.33`	`NAiL`	`[g2]: nfs-utils and samba are pushed to stable`
`22:47.35`	`NAiL`	`so they work`
`22:47.40`	`NAiL`	`just so you know`
`22:47.43`	`[g2]-away`	`Na`
`22:47.46`	`[g2]-away`	`NAiL, cool`
`22:47.51`	`[g2]-away`	`beewoolie-afk, will be happy`
`22:47.53`	`[g2]-away`	`bbl`
`22:48.36`	`hannesr`	`NAiL, what would the bbclass do? putting a symlink to armeb_linux-strip on the path is the easiest thing that comes to mind.`
`22:49.31`	`NAiL`	`hannesr: to be honest, I haven't started looking at bbclasses yet, but from what I've understood, it shouldn't be too hard to do it that way`
`22:50.46`	`NAiL`	`I have to start learning though, because I'm going to do a adding-users-thing through a bbclass`
`22:52.39`	`NAiL`	`I've only been doing this oe-stuff for a few weeks`
`22:52.51`	`NAiL`	`learning as I go :)`
`22:53.04`	`hannesr`	`adding-users-thing? like having a user to own the files belonging to a particular package?`
`22:54.25`	`NAiL`	`adding a user when an ipkg is installed`
`22:54.49`	`NAiL`	`thing is that it should check that adduser is installed, preferrable check which adduser`
`22:54.49`	`hannesr`	`oe seems a bit big-and-scary, but I'm impressed by how cleanly you can add new packages.`
`22:55.02`	`NAiL`	`It's just a facade :P`
`22:55.09`	`NAiL`	`It's not that scary`
`22:55.46`	`hannesr`	`it's solving a scary problem, so it's entitled to some scariness`
`22:56.19`	`NAiL`	`Solving a bunch of scary problems actually`
`22:58.11`	`NAiL`	`anyway, adding a user should be "safe", no matter what setup the distribution has`
`22:58.21`	`NAiL`	`and doing that in each and every bb is painful`
`22:59.02`	`hannesr`	`so you wrap it all up in a class and let each bb just provide the user name`
`22:59.14`	`hannesr`	`sounds good`
`22:59.18`	`NAiL`	`yeah`
`22:59.52`	`hannesr`	`you will of course be removing the user again when the package is removed, right?`
`23:00.06`	`hannesr`	`unless another package is installed that wants the user to exist...`
`23:00.10`	`NAiL`	`hehe, well, hopefully yes ;)`
`23:00.30`	`hannesr`	`hmmm... you could just make the user a package and depend on it, I suppose.`
`23:00.32`	`*** join/#nslu2-linux jimtucker65 (~Jim@d66-183-125-209.bchsia.telus.net)`
`23:00.52`	`NAiL`	`that'd make a bunch of "useless" packages, imo`
`23:01.08`	`NAiL`	`but you did give me an idea there`
`23:01.20`	`hannesr`	`true, but solves the dependency-tracking problem where multiple packages want a user to exist`
`23:01.31`	`hannesr`	`not that I can think of an example of that, mind you...`
`23:01.44`	`NAiL`	`It can use the GECOS field to uniquely identify the user, and decide whether other packages depend on that user`
`23:02.14`	`NAiL`	`no, I think that's a very rare occurence`
`23:02.19`	`NAiL`	`but why not account for it? ;)`
`23:02.39`	`hannesr`	`GECOS == General Comprehensive Operating System ?`
`23:03.13`	`NAiL`	`no idea what GECOS actually means, but it's the field where realname, phone number, room number etc goes`
`23:06.14`	`Tiersten`	`General Electric Comprehensive Operating system`
`23:06.39`	`Tiersten`	`ye olde OS`
`23:07.41`	`NAiL`	`While GCOS is no longer in use, a small remnant of it is remains on UNIX (and UNIX-like systems such as Linux). Some early UNIX systems at Bell Labs used GCOS machines for print spooling and various other services; in order to accommodate this a field was added to /etc/passwd to carry GCOS ID information. This field was called the "GECOS field" and survives today in UNIX as the pw_gecos member used to store the user's full name and other h`
`23:07.54`	`NAiL`	`Neat. Now I know that as well`
`23:08.05`	`jimtucker65`	`Hi. I'm new to IRC but I've been using Linux on the the slug for a few months. May I please ask a question?`
`23:08.26`	`NAiL`	`jimtucker65: go ahead.`
`23:08.48`	`NAiL`	`You don't need to ask to ask though :)`
`23:09.01`	`jimtucker65`	`Not sure of IRC etiquette, but I'd like to ask about a PHP problem.`
`23:09.29`	`jimtucker65`	`I've been having problems with WordPress and Drupal running on my slug.`
`23:09.57`	`jimtucker65`	`I posted on the group about it but I have been unable to connect with others having similar problems with PHP scripts.`
`23:10.25`	`NAiL`	`What are the symptoms?`
`23:10.27`	`jimtucker65`	`Josh said in one message that others had had problems with PHP mail scripts. This could be my situation, but I'm not sure.`
`23:10.46`	`jimtucker65`	`The most obvious problem is that Apache/PHP dies.`
`23:11.04`	`jimtucker65`	`I can still access the slug via SSH and the standard Linksys web interface...`
`23:11.19`	`jimtucker65`	`but anything to do with Apache is dead at that point.`
`23:11.34`	`NAiL`	`Anything in the logs?`
`23:11.37`	`jimtucker65`	`This happens when, for example, I add a new user.`
`23:11.43`	`jimtucker65`	`I checked the logs...`
`23:11.51`	`NAiL`	`unslung, apache and php isn't exactly my strengt, to be honest`
`23:11.52`	`jimtucker65`	`Nothing really remarkable...`
`23:12.12`	`NAiL`	`well.. adding a user quite possibly triggers sending a mail`
`23:12.24`	`NAiL`	`or an attempt to do so, atleast`
`23:12.32`	`jimtucker65`	`I'd have to go back and check, but the Apache log didn't point to any smoking gun that I could see`
`23:13.00`	`NAiL`	`if it hangs on the mail thing, there's probably no errors in the log`
`23:13.08`	`jimtucker65`	`I think you're right, since adding a user in WordPress would probably send a confirmation notice to the new user.`
`23:13.26`	`NAiL`	`yeah, and also possibly a mail to admin`
`23:13.39`	`NAiL`	`I don't know if anyone is working on that issue`
`23:14.09`	`jimtucker65`	`I get similar results with Drupal on some operations, so it's most likely a general problem with PHP on the slug, rather than an app-specific problem.`
`23:14.41`	`NAiL`	`Yeah, quite possibly. php is a complex beast. I don't think it's very easy to compile cross.`
`23:14.50`	`NAiL`	`[g2]-away: ping?`
`23:15.02`	`jimtucker65`	`Anyway, since my question kinda died on the group discussion I thought I would dip my toe in the IRC world and see if anyone had advice on how to approach the problem, if not an answer to the specific situation.`
`23:15.26`	`hannesr`	`can you see any hung apache or php processes when you SSH to the slug? or does apache actually die in the sense of all processes exiting?`
`23:15.50`	`hannesr`	`(i know nothing about PHP, just guessing here)`
`23:16.25`	`jimtucker65`	`I'm not able to see my slug right now (router problem, and I'm away) but I think the processes are still there; they appear to be in an endless loop`
`23:16.53`	`NAiL`	`jimtucker65: Do you have strace installed?`
`23:17.13`	`jimtucker65`	`What's that?`
`23:17.17`	`hannesr`	`or lsof, perhaps`
`23:17.29`	`NAiL`	`strace traces the system calls a program makes`
`23:17.31`	`jimtucker65`	`Not that I know of`
`23:18.27`	`NAiL`	`What I suggest you try is this... Install strace (I think it's in the feed), then run strace -f <command to start apache> 2>&1 > /path/to/a/logfile`
`23:18.29`	`jimtucker65`	`I know enough Linux to be dangerous and I've written a few Perl scripts, but those programs I don't know`
`23:18.49`	`NAiL`	`That will probably be one huge logfile`
`23:19.02`	`NAiL`	`but it might give a hint as to where it hangs/loops`
`23:19.52`	`jimtucker65`	`Hmmm... if Josh Parsons was right and others have had PHP mail problems, I wonder if it would make more sense to find out who they are and what they encountered.`
`23:20.21`	`jimtucker65`	`I can do that with strace, but I wonder which is the better angle on the problem.`
`23:20.40`	`NAiL`	`If you do the stuff with strace, we might figure out what's wrong`
`23:20.58`	`jimtucker65`	`Okay. I'll give it a shot.`
`23:21.02`	`jimtucker65`	`Thanks for the advice.`
`23:21.05`	`NAiL`	`this option does not exclude finding other users with similar problems ;)`
`23:21.11`	`NAiL`	`np`
`23:21.33`	`jimtucker65`	`So on the IRC channel do you just barge right in like this, or are there protocols?`
`23:22.47`	`ByronT`	`no yellow flags thrown at you yet... ;)`
`23:23.23`	`jimtucker65`	`Okay, thanks.`
`23:23.52`	`rwhitby`	`jimtucker65: yep, sometimes one waits for a break in the conversation, but often there are multiple conversations going at once, so you just barge in.`
`23:24.11`	`rwhitby`	`the trick is to write enough information that is interesting enough for someone to want to respond :-)`
`23:24.16`	`CIA-8`	`03repvik * r72 10/releases/OpenSlug-2.0-beta/openembedded/packages/samba/ (files/config-lfs.patch samba_3.0.14a.bb): Update samba`
`23:24.49`	`*** part/#nslu2-linux AdamBaker (~aab@userch028.dsl.pipex.com)`
`23:25.37`	`jimtucker65`	`Thanks. Are there really 41 people actively involved, or are some/most of them away from their consoles?`
`23:25.58`	`NAiL`	`there's a lot of people idling at any given time`
`23:26.05`	`NAiL`	`~slugtime`
`23:26.05`	`jbot`	`slugtime is probably 40 hour days 10 hours in 4 timezones with overlap`
`23:26.22`	`rwhitby`	`dunno. the done thing is to change your nick to -away or -afk or something like that when you are away for a length of time`
`23:28.37`	`jimtucker65`	`Okay. I'll see what strace can tell me and check back in later. Thanks.`
`23:30.38`	`[g2]`	`jimtucker65, which versions of apache and unslung btw`
`23:30.58`	`[g2]`	`and drupal uses msysql right ?`
`23:31.05`	`NAiL`	`[g2]: nm the ping ;)`
`23:31.23`	`[g2]`	`NAiL, I was going to ask you about that?`
`23:31.26`	`[g2]`	`lfs support ?`
`23:31.27`	`jp30-work`	`jimtucker65, strace logs would be helpful, and we can probably do more real time in irc than on the email list. another thing to know about is that "httpd -X" will run apache single-threaded in the foreground`
`23:31.51`	`NAiL`	`[g2]: What about lfs support? On OpenSlug (both stable and unstable feeds), samba has lfs support`
`23:31.58`	`NAiL`	`since r6 IIRC`
`23:32.20`	`[g2]`	`NAiL, I was just guessing what your Q was`
`23:32.28`	`NAiL`	`ah`
`23:32.45`	`jimtucker65`	`the latest apache, php and mysql -- from memory PHP 5.x, Apache 4.x, can't remember which MySQL but I checked them all against the feed(s) a week or so ago.`
`23:32.48`	`NAiL`	`No, I just wondered if you had any experience with php/apache on unslung actually`
`23:32.59`	`[g2]`	`httpd -X that looks handy`
`23:33.02`	`jimtucker65`	`Yes, Drupal uses MySQL`
`23:33.32`	`jimtucker65`	`Would httpd -X be just for troubleshooting? What would that tell me?`
`23:33.50`	`NAiL`	`[g2]: He's away from his slug, just so you know :)`
`23:33.53`	`jp30-work`	`you'll find it easier to use strace (and gdb) with httpd -X`
`23:34.03`	`NAiL`	`aha`
`23:34.14`	`NAiL`	`jp30-work: why is that?`
`23:34.27`	`jimtucker65`	`I've got a network problem at home, so I can't access my slug from the cafe where I am now`
`23:34.48`	`jimtucker65`	`I was looking for direction, but didn't anticipate getting into troubleshooting right now, as much as I appreciate it.`
`23:35.34`	`jp30-work`	`if you "strace httpd" you only are only stracing the "parent process", not the "worker processes" of apache.`
`23:36.18`	`jp30-work`	`the parent process runs as root and its only job is to spawn one or more worker processes`
`23:36.35`	`NAiL`	`jp30-work: Won't strace -fF follow the children?`
`23:36.36`	`[g2]`	`jimtucker65, are you running from flash or hd`
`23:36.51`	`jimtucker65`	`HDD`
`23:37.04`	`[g2]`	`ok so you've got swap space`
`23:37.44`	`jimtucker65`	`Yes, my primary 120 GB drive has about 40% free. The other 250 GB drive has scads of space.`
`23:37.44`	`jp30-work`	`NAiL: hmm... i guess that would work. second reason: if the bug can be provoked with a single-threaded apache, that already tells us something, and the strace logs will be easier to read`
`23:38.25`	`NAiL`	`jp30-work: Yeah, I figured that. Just wondered if I was technically wrong or not. using -X is definitely a good idea`
`23:38.49`	`NAiL`	`I can't say I've used strace that much :P`
`23:38.54`	`[g2]`	`jimtucker65, I meant having a swap partition mounted which would prevent you from running out of memory`
`23:39.10`	`jp30-work`	`come to think of it, jimtucker65, you should make sure you absolutely can't reproduce the problem with php standalone or php-thttpd. they are muck easier to debug than php-apache`
`23:40.06`	`jimtucker65`	`Should I try strace first or php standalone?`
`23:40.13`	`jp30-work`	`php`
`23:40.15`	`[g2]`	`nod`
`23:40.32`	`jp30-work`	`then if you can reproduce the bug, "strace php <your script>"`
`23:40.54`	`[g2]`	`or -f`
`23:41.45`	`jimtucker65`	`okay I'll try php standalone when I get back to my slug`
`23:41.59`	`jimtucker65`	`should I worry about the swap partition thing?`
`23:43.09`	`jimtucker65`	`I don't remember setting up a swap partition, but I remember seeing a process in the ps list saying "kswap" or something`
`23:43.20`	`jimtucker65`	`I don't know if that has anything to do with what you're asking about.`
`23:43.42`	`jimtucker65`	`Is this a way of virtual-izing around the 32 MB limits of the slug?`
`23:43.51`	`NAiL`	`yes`
`23:43.53`	`[g2]`	`you've probably got a swap partition from the linksys setup`
`23:44.26`	`jimtucker65`	`sounds promising... it does seem like what I'm doing is pushing the limits of the slug`
`23:44.31`	`jimtucker65`	`should I try that first?`
`23:44.43`	`[g2]`	`I think you are pushing the memory limits some`
`23:45.13`	`jimtucker65`	`but kswap is different from a swap partition?`
`23:45.14`	`[g2]`	`but then I'm making 64MB HW units :)`
`23:45.42`	`jimtucker65`	`I've read about stacking chips... I'm not so keen on HW mods, though`
`23:46.05`	`[g2]`	`it's a custom design built new boards`
`23:46.09`	`NAiL`	`jimtucker65: Have you deunderclocked your slug yet? :)`
`23:46.35`	`jimtucker65`	`No, I have not right-clocked it, but again I've read some of the recent discussions.`
`23:47.30`	`jimtucker65`	`Before I hardware mod my slug I would probably just go out and buy a full-fledged box as a web server`
`23:47.33`	`jp30-work`	`running apache / php / mysql gets up to memory limits but shouldn't push 'em too hard. esp. if you are not using eaccelerator.`
`23:47.55`	`[g2]`	`and drupal ?`
`23:47.56`	`jimtucker65`	`(Again from memory) I think I DID install eaccelerator`
`23:48.29`	`[g2]`	`it's the default php script size like 8MB supported ?`
`23:48.33`	`[g2]`	`isn't`
`23:48.45`	`jimtucker65`	`Drupal seems to tax the slug more than WordPress. Also I have found fewer real uses for Drupal, so I have less experience using it.`
`23:49.21`	`[g2]`	`I was looking at setting up Drupal or WordPress`
`23:49.48`	`[g2]`	`but MySQL isn't all setup yet (I'm running OpenSlug)`
`23:50.10`	`jimtucker65`	`I played with the PHP script size configuration a bit, but no joy. I think I cranked it up and then back down again.`
`23:50.40`	`jimtucker65`	`I thought of taking it down to 4 MB, but I really don't know what that would do.`
`23:51.09`	`[g2]`	`I'd hope there would be some high-water marks`
`23:51.25`	`jimtucker65`	`g2, I recommend WordPress if you're wanting to blog. It can also be adapted to more general web publishing.`
`23:51.32`	`[g2]`	`so you could run some scripts for a while and then see the max memory used`
`23:52.06`	`jimtucker65`	`Sorry to but out just as this topic is getting started, but I've run out of time.`
`23:52.25`	`[g2]`	`np it's IRC`
`23:52.35`	`[g2]`	`thx for stopping by`
`23:52.35`	`jimtucker65`	`Thanks for the advice. I'll save this chat session and do some research.`
`23:52.43`	`[g2]`	`GL`
`23:52.45`	`jimtucker65`	`Thanks.`

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