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| 11:43.32 | atk | wpwrak: I just noticed, you wrote the documentation for initrd (kernel docs) |
| 11:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup he did |
| 11:44.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | since afaik he developed initrd |
| 11:44.16 | atk | Cool |
| 11:44.38 | atk | DocScrutinizer05: you'll be pleased to hear that I completely replaced systemd init on my system with runit. |
| 11:44.44 | atk | And init isn't a mystery anymore. |
| 11:44.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
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| 12:20.12 | bencoh | on what system? |
| 12:20.31 | atk | bencoh: arch |
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| 13:25.13 | cg132 | TransferWise hates me. Anyone have another route for bankwire? |
| 13:30.15 | cg132 | DocScrutinizer05? dos1? wpwrak? |
| 13:35.15 | cg132 | I still dont understand why they've invoked their right to "refuse to accept any user or to complete any instruction to send money at any time." |
| 13:35.38 | cg132 | They must be evil. |
| 13:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | paypal? yes |
| 13:36.12 | cg132 | Not palpal, transferwise has refused to work with me. |
| 13:36.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | transferwise? oh, no experience with them |
| 13:36.31 | cg132 | They are evil. |
| 13:36.32 | cg132 | :P |
| 13:37.31 | cg132 | Are you folks not accepting paypal any more? |
| 13:37.41 | cg132 | I thought you got over those troubles. Still on going? |
| 13:37.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, we're constantly searching for better payment methods, but except BTC (and we still miss a processor for that) we didn't find anything that's proven to work so far |
| 13:38.18 | cg132 | :( |
| 13:38.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got your money from paypal, but that doesn't solve the PP problems which would recur as soon as we accept new payments via PP |
| 13:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, afk |
| 13:39.26 | cg132 | I submitted preorder few days ago and have not been able to bank wire you folks. |
| 13:39.52 | cg132 | I don't know why but no one wants to send euros to germany.... what the heck! |
| 13:40.32 | cg132 | Maybe western union? |
| 13:45.54 | cg132 | arg, never had this much trouble giving away money before. >,< |
| 13:46.06 | cg132 | usually companies are all too happy to take it |
| 13:46.19 | cg132 | this is the first time I've ever seen multiple companies refuse it. |
| 13:48.27 | cg132 | you guys must of pissed off a lot of banks haha! |
| 13:49.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's a general issue with US banks, they never heard of SEPA and SWIFT |
| 13:49.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and are gangsters with fees for overseas transfers |
| 13:50.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | some banks you got there are actually semi-reasonable with overseas transfers |
| 13:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | *our* bank OTOH has pretty tough conditions for accepting credit card payments |
| 13:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that any other bank here (or anywhere else) would be better. This was the problem with PP as well |
| 13:53.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | CC payments are generally a PITA for the receiver, as sender can roll back for months or years |
| 13:54.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | and receiver has to pay all expense for fraud |
| 13:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | and takes all the risk |
| 13:56.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.swift.com/ |
| 13:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell your bank about https://www.swift.com/your-needs/banking/get-started-with-swift |
| 14:00.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't even know anybody in banking business is _not_ using it |
| 14:10.01 | cg132 | Oh wow! |
| 14:10.51 | cg132 | i've not heard of swift. |
| 14:11.08 | cg132 | Yep, being an Amercian guess I'm stuck with ancient banking practices. |
| 14:11.30 | cg132 | :/ Well I will endeavor to get my money over to you guys. |
| 14:11.42 | cg132 | I understand your reluctance in accepting CC transactions. |
| 14:11.56 | cg132 | I just dont understand how you fell for the paypal trap. XD |
| 14:12.15 | cg132 | You should move the money out of pay pal as soon as it comes in. |
| 14:12.30 | cg132 | Paypal is a nightmare, i've had trouble with them but not to the extent you folks have. |
| 14:13.09 | cg132 | Well, I just wanted to let you guys know I'm still trying to send money.... just being difficult. |
| 14:13.24 | cg132 | Hope my funds make it there before production ends. |
| 14:13.27 | cg132 | :D |
| 14:14.04 | cg132 | Thanks for the info DocScrutinizer. I'll be in touch. |
| 14:21.02 | cg132 | ...and may the force be with you. :) |
| 14:23.38 | wpwrak | cg132: hmm, once upon a long ago, someone tried to use transferwise, they declined, i asked, and then they lifted their ban. so it should actually work, as far as neo900 is concerned. was there an indication whether they didn't like us or whether they didn't like your money ? |
| 14:24.21 | cg132 | Nothing yet. |
| 14:24.33 | cg132 | Still probing with questions. |
| 14:24.45 | cg132 | First email sent to appeals@transferwise |
| 14:24.58 | cg132 | they replied with canned statement quoting their terms of service. |
| 14:25.09 | cg132 | So I've asked specific questions regarding my account, your account, etc.... |
| 14:25.17 | cg132 | hopefully the reply with useful information. |
| 14:25.23 | cg132 | However.... |
| 14:25.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we don't have a transferwise account, but yes we got sort of "approved" a long time ago |
| 14:25.47 | cg132 | I fully expected another generic canned statement like "we do not wish to engage in this conversation without our lawyers present" |
| 14:26.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | even though the transfer that caused the approval never made it |
| 14:26.10 | cg132 | Yeah transferwise is just a facilitator. |
| 14:26.18 | cg132 | They're moving money form my bank to your bank. |
| 14:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 14:26.25 | cg132 | But still, they hate me. :( |
| 14:27.03 | cg132 | Was hoping someone got a private paypal and can shuffle to bank account.... |
| 14:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I possibly could do |
| 14:27.45 | cg132 | :O |
| 14:28.02 | cg132 | We'll have to discuss this further some time. :D |
| 14:28.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that would kill my private account too, if push comes to pull |
| 14:28.17 | cg132 | :( |
| 14:28.20 | cg132 | you're right |
| 14:28.33 | cg132 | Paypai is evil. |
| 14:28.40 | cg132 | They might try to seize those funds too. |
| 14:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | PP is great at linking your account to even your neighbour's with all their problems |
| 14:28.50 | cg132 | lol |
| 14:29.00 | cg132 | Rotten bastards. |
| 14:29.26 | cg132 | I'll head into the bank this afternoon and see if they can help me out. |
| 14:29.38 | cg132 | You guys will hear back from me some time soon. :) |
| 14:29.46 | cg132 | So strange no one wants to take my money. |
| 14:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw we already have waived our right to use PP, simply by doing this conversation. according to their TOS |
| 14:29.57 | cg132 | oh |
| 14:30.01 | cg132 | :( |
| 14:30.15 | cg132 | Well that idea is out the window. |
| 14:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | "though shalt not speak evil about your PP" |
| 14:30.30 | cg132 | haha! |
| 14:30.44 | cg132 | Someone needs to kick paypal in the nuts. |
| 14:31.58 | cg132 | Well guys. Still at square one trying to get money overseas. I'll let you know if I come up with anything good. |
| 14:32.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta |
| 14:32.22 | cg132 | I'll let you guys get back to doing what yer doing. |
| 14:32.27 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: do they have secret_police to check up on this? |
| 14:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/though/thou/ |
| 14:32.46 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: is it equally an offence to fail to report such conversations to the paypal-police ? |
| 14:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not secret |
| 14:33.13 | enyc | ;p |
| 14:33.17 | cg132 | hahaha! |
| 14:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think the latter is in their TOS, but maybe that's their secret policies |
| 14:33.24 | cg132 | i say just take your money out of pay pal and run |
| 14:34.00 | cg132 | <sigh> such a horrible situation |
| 14:34.04 | cg132 | i really feel for you folks |
| 14:34.12 | cg132 | seen it before, sure this wont be the last time |
| 14:35.11 | cg132 | secret paypal police |
| 14:35.19 | cg132 | thats gunna have me chuckling for a while |
| 14:58.01 | enyc | =) |
| 14:58.12 | enyc | I'm wondering how the layout is going and what obstacles being found |
| 14:59.10 | cg132 | obstacles? its like a tv game show. |
| 14:59.18 | cg132 | i'm pretty sure at this point i've fallen into the mud below |
| 15:00.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're learning kicad layout, cleaning and debugging schematics, and waiting for Ahycka to return from holiday end of this month |
| 15:01.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | kicad is all new at least to me |
| 15:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm not a layouter anyway |
| 15:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can layout like you can buiold a brick wall. You know how to do it, doesn't mean you are experienced or good at it |
| 15:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | Ahycka OTOH is a professional layouter |
| 15:04.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually that brick wall analogy is pretty good |
| 15:05.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | since many people can _see_ if a brick wall been built by professionals or is botch, but not everybody who can see that is also capable to _build_ a good brick wall |
| 15:05.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can see if a layout is good |
| 15:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can do small changes, but I probably suck at doing a layout of that complexity |
| 15:06.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I eventually could finish something, but of questionable quality and would take ages |
| 15:07.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | layouter is a profession you got to learn |
| 15:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | like brick layer |
| 15:08.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | just more demanding |
| 15:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: no obstacles |
| 15:09.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the conversion from eagle to kicad worked great |
| 15:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and kicad seems to be a decent tool capable of the job at hand, as far as our initial evaluations suggest |
| 15:21.57 | cg132 | kicad does look comparable to autocad. But all in all cad layout is a professional skill. Its not easy to pick up. Steep learning curve. |
| 15:22.22 | cg132 | I could make a happy face in auto cad. |
| 15:22.31 | cg132 | But I couldn't design a cir cut board. :P |
| 15:24.03 | cg132 | circuit* |
| 15:24.10 | cg132 | my fingers not working today |
| 15:24.26 | cg132 | Glad to hear theres no roadblocks in development world. :) |
| 15:24.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: http://neo900.org/stuff/kicad/proto_v2/2016-08-16/ |
| 15:25.45 | cg132 | So Doc, what about physical mailing address? If I sent a courier over there with a money order would that be acceptable payment? |
| 15:26.26 | cg132 | I have a buddy in Germany who wouldn't mind a road trip. ;) |
| 15:26.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 15:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | no probelm on my side |
| 15:27.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess your buddy could also do SEPA |
| 15:27.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and do the trip to some lovely countryside instead ;-D |
| 15:28.12 | cg132 | Hmm! Not sure he has a german bank at this moment but I will find out! :D |
| 15:28.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | my place isn't really worth a trip |
| 15:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | he can pay on our account at DeutscheBank, any arbitrary branch office |
| 15:29.25 | cg132 | But only in euros huh. Yep I could paypal him, and he could show up at your bank! |
| 15:29.34 | cg132 | This could work....hmmm! |
| 15:29.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | he can do SEPA transfer with any arbitrary european bank account |
| 15:29.50 | cg132 | He has american bank. :/ |
| 15:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, then payment in cash in a DeutscheBank |
| 15:30.15 | cg132 | Yes. |
| 15:30.27 | cg132 | Going to get in touch with him first before I visit my bank. |
| 15:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | there should be one next to him, no matter where in Germany he lives |
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| 15:33.40 | cg132 | Hes in Baumholder right now. |
| 15:34.01 | cg132 | Guess that 300km journey is a bit much to ask. |
| 15:34.12 | cg132 | Yea looking for DeutscheBank now. |
| 15:37.56 | cg132 | Looking like Idar-Oberstein is closest |
| 15:38.18 | cg132 | closest branch to my buddy. |
| 15:38.40 | cg132 | I'll talk to him tonight. :) |
| 15:40.06 | cg132 | 20km journey |
| 15:40.11 | cg132 | much better ^_^ |
| 15:52.38 | cg132 | anyhoo, off to work |
| 15:52.42 | cg132 | have a wonderful day gentlemen ! |
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| 17:12.53 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: looks preety =)... Wondering how circuit gets verified and laid out ... |
| 17:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: first we review the schematics, at least twice, by two independent persons. Then we get layout done (relaxed version for proto_v2), then we produce PCB, assemble and finally test the proto_v2 |
| 17:37.23 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: ... and then we're in a good position to show a realistic ''plan'' for completion to more possible investors/backers/otherwise |
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| 18:34.37 | n1x_ | is there any chance that the Neo900 is going to have upgradable hardware (e.g. like the Dragonbox Pyra)? |
| 18:52.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: yes, that's the plan |
| 18:53.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | n1x_: not really, the Neo900 already is an upgrade of N900 and we're more constrained by avaolable volume inside case than Pyra. We checked and for example Pyra's OMAP5 doesn't even fit in |
| 18:55.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | n1x_: however we also have a LOWER board with modem and all, and an UPPER board with CPU. So just in case there *might* eventually come up a SoC with higher specs than what we use, we could swap UPPER and keep the rest |
| 18:56.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | n1x_: you're aware that Nikolaus (GolDeliCo) been involved in both Pyra and Neo900 design? |
| 18:57.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are quite some synergies from that |
| 19:03.13 | n1x_ | I didn't know that he was involved with both projects actually. But if I understand correctly, it's not planned but at least theoretically possible. Which was mainly what I was wondering. |
| 19:03.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 19:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~step2 |
| 19:03.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 19:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | we plan a new device instead of an upgrade for Neo900 (dubbed 'STEP2'), which will use a larger screen, SoC with more grunt (OMAP5 most likely), and own (or sourced in numbers) case to accomodate the larger screen |
| 19:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | however don't hold your breath, it's not clear yet if we ever will get there, neither when |
| 19:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | just I plan to offer a special deal to Neo900 owners when STEP2 gets available |
| 19:07.03 | *** join/#neo900 ravelo (c151472c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.81.71.44) |
| 19:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | not sure, depending on commercial success of STEP2 we even might give them to Neo900 owners for free |
| 19:10.07 | galiven | cg132 is gone now but I had to call up to my bank (credit union) and repeat all the transfer details over the phone to send the money. |
| 19:10.34 | galiven | It was a bit annoying that I had to use the old fashioned phone instead of technology, but it wasn't terribly bad. |
| 19:11.04 | n1x_ | I hadn't heard of that. But given the development pace of the Neo900, yeah I won't torture myself with anticipation about STEP2 lol |
| 19:11.43 | n1x_ | curious though if you guys have thought about whether it would have a physical keyboard. IMO that's one of the biggest appeals of hte Neo900 compared to other smartphones these days |
| 19:23.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, STEP2 will definitely come with an alternative to onscreen vkbd, most likely a classical hw kbd to slide out |
| 19:24.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless somebody invents something even better than that |
| 19:24.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | inflatable kbd, whatever ;-) |
| 19:24.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I pondered laser projected kbd, but they suck big time |
| 19:25.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and only work on tables |
| 19:25.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we could have a detachable hw kbd though |
| 19:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing decided yet about STEP2, except it will definitely come with a decent kbd |
| 19:26.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and with a larger screen |
| 19:27.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and thus also _larger_ kbd |
| 19:27.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it will be a phone, not a console like Pyra |
| 19:31.31 | n1x_ | Yeah, the Pyra seems like it'll be really neat but making it replace a phone would be awkward. Too bad STEP2 won't be coming anytime soon, if at all :^) |
| 19:31.58 | n1x_ | You said that you guys might give Neo900 owners discounts on the STEP2 if you come out with it? |
| 19:32.25 | n1x_ | That would be much more incentive for me personally to invest in a Neo900. Aside from just generally being very dissatisfied with other smartphone options |
| 19:35.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I'm absolutely determined to reward Neo900 supporters when it comes to STEP2. They made it possible |
| 19:36.09 | enyc | =) |
| 19:37.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and since STEP2 is planned in the 10.000s range, not <1000 like Neo900, we should be actually be able to do this |
| 19:37.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | *if* STEP2 flies |
| 19:38.01 | n1x_ | That sounds pretty awesome. I'll definitely be keeping up to date with development. Hopefully getting a Neo900 as well when I'm not broke ;^) |
| 19:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | even if we give away STEP2 for free to all Neo900 owners, this should have less than 10% impact on the sales price of STEP2 |
| 19:38.36 | n1x_ | That would be amazing. |
| 19:39.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | we vlaue our faithful supporters |
| 19:39.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | value even |
| 19:39.22 | sixwheeledbeast | :) |
| 19:41.11 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: good luck , kkep going, plesaed to see that you (persanally) seem to be recovering etc apparently |
| 19:41.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, I'm somehow feeling a tad less overwhelmed |
| 19:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | some good progress and nice incidents made the burden from this project a tad easier |
| 19:42.47 | enyc | keep good organization going, etc. |
| 19:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | just a very helpful supporter spotted a larger amount of refurbished N900 |
| 19:44.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hellekin doing a hell of a job meanwhile to get newsletters and generic PR rolling again, and also he helps us organizing our internal coordination |
| 19:44.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, how did you like our newsletter? |
| 19:45.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | (sorry we afaik didn't make it yet to send it by email too, so only online version available) |
| 19:46.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/#news |
| 19:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | next which is already in the pipeline is a review and evaluation of the Snowden&Bunnie iPhone security sleeve(?), and why it's inferior in many aspects to Neo900 concept |
| 19:52.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty proud we still offer the only known high security hardware phone :-) |
| 19:52.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | no blackphone and no cryptophone can compete |
| 19:53.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither a S&B pimped iPhone |
| 19:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ASN.1 is excellent promotion for us ;-D |
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| 20:12.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually some (or all) of the big players in phone business, to supposedly/allegedly fix the ASN.1 vuln, will provide a modem firmware update for some (or most) of their devices. However when they do they will provide such update via OverTheAir direct update to modem, which means A) you can't know what they do nor could you inspect the firmware (possibly even don't notice it gets updated) and B) such OTA update is an excellent occasion |
| 20:12.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the modem to grab and transfer upstream *all* data on your Samsung/LG/Sony/even-iPhone device without anybody wondering what's going on. Abd I wouldn't be too surprised if later RE-analysis of that new firmware shows it has one pubkey more now, to authenticate remote users who have full access to the modem |
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| 20:35.34 | enyc | hrrm |
| 20:39.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | I had a disconnect from >.....who have full access to the modem< to your 'hrmm' |
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| 20:40.37 | *** join/#neo900 dal (~dal@172.58.43.19) |
| 20:41.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | so if enything been posted there, I didn't see it |
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| 20:51.38 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz (~illwieckz@AToulon-256-1-176-26.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:51.38 | *** join/#neo900 illwieckz (~illwieckz@unvanquished/developer/illwieckz) |
| 22:37.21 | *** join/#neo900 dal (~dal@172.58.43.19) |
| 23:08.07 | *** join/#neo900 rootman (~rootman@83.164.147.60) |