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| 19:57.54 | ndnihil | http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2016-05/18/nokia-smartphones-tablets-deal-microsoft-hmd |
| 19:58.32 | ndnihil | I wonder if they'd be interested in injecting some cash/manufacturing/technical assistance into neo900 |
| 19:59.57 | ndnihil | though I think I might be forced to play with a cat s60 until this one comes out |
| 20:00.08 | ndnihil | I love my standlone FLIR, having one on the phone would rock |
| 20:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat s60 looks cool, yes |
| 20:01.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually I pondered similar things about Nokia |
| 20:01.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | about the FLIR in that s60 i'm not entirely convinced about the quality |
| 20:02.05 | ndnihil | the lepton is actually supposed to be pretty decent |
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| 20:02.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yeah, definitely a cool thing. I already have plans for my FLIR Neo900 addon |
| 20:02.34 | ndnihil | I've got a modded e4, which basically removes the firmware cripple on resolution (and adds a shitload of new features) |
| 20:02.46 | ndnihil | turns a $1k FLIR into a $3k FLIR |
| 20:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 20:03.04 | ndnihil | http://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/ |
| 20:03.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks a lot |
| 20:03.51 | ndnihil | though I seem to recall reading something about the newer units being patched against the modification |
| 20:04.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | it has such note in first post, yes |
| 20:04.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, 1.22 whatever that is nowadays |
| 20:04.47 | ndnihil | ah, downgradable, so that's good |
| 20:05.14 | ndnihil | but still some issues |
| 20:05.22 | ndnihil | glad I got mine when I did |
| 20:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL @ x-ray |
| 20:06.49 | ndnihil | but yeah, the lepton in the s60 is supposed to be better than this sensor |
| 20:07.00 | ndnihil | which is pretty decent for the price |
| 20:07.08 | ndnihil | x-ray? |
| 20:07.58 | ndnihil | I mean, you do see -some- detail in the right circumstances, that you wouldn't otherwise in standard human vision wavelengths |
| 20:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | the video in that link you gave |
| 20:08.23 | ndnihil | but you'd stll be better off perving through a high quality camera with the IR filter pulled, and used in sunlight |
| 20:08.39 | ndnihil | ah, I haven't read through that thread in years |
| 20:09.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1:00 |
| 20:09.28 | ndnihil | hah |
| 20:09.38 | ndnihil | dude has fun toys |
| 20:10.49 | ndnihil | that ellsworth chick has/had a SEM in her garage at some point |
| 20:10.59 | ndnihil | that would be a lot of fun too |
| 20:11.14 | ndnihil | but I do wish she'd focus on getting me my castAR |
| 20:11.38 | amatus | i know a guy with a SEM |
| 20:12.10 | ndnihil | I scan the academic/scientific auction sites every so often for them |
| 20:13.11 | amatus | http://hackerfriendly.com/tag/sem/ |
| 20:13.39 | ndnihil | gah, 2300x |
| 20:13.41 | ndnihil | I want |
| 20:13.53 | ndnihil | my optical setup can only feed 800x into my D90 |
| 20:14.07 | ndnihil | or was it 400x |
| 20:15.20 | ndnihil | father in law wanted me to have a go at recovering his s3 |
| 20:15.35 | ndnihil | a year after he got into a pool with it in his pocket |
| 20:15.39 | ndnihil | https://old.ndnihil.org/micro/galaxyS3_vs_water/ |
| 20:16.18 | ndnihil | that was just the cmos cam for it, didn't bother with the nikon |
| 20:17.12 | ndnihil | that was after a very gentle brushing with a soft bristled toothbrush |
| 20:17.16 | ndnihil | to get the corrosion off |
| 20:17.27 | ndnihil | knocked at least half those components off |
| 20:17.43 | ndnihil | I'm guessing the more corroded pads are what caused the final failure |
| 20:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that's what you get from water and PCB under voltage |
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| 21:08.48 | ceene | ahycka has done a few boards pretty dense |
| 21:09.09 | ceene | but we've never calculated how much area is populated with components |
| 21:09.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | good, we will need that for the final design, for proto_v2 the UPPER board can be of arbitrary size, to simplify layout |
| 21:10.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also proto_v2 has no SoC etc at all, we connect the protoboard to a BB-xM for that |
| 21:11.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the layout should be relatively relaxed for proto_v2 |
| 21:12.39 | ceene | great |
| 21:12.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | the goal for proto_v2 is to electrically/logically verify all the new stuff we got |
| 21:13.54 | ceene | miniaturization can come after that |
| 21:14.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 21:14.25 | ceene | how many layers are expected for proto_v2 and final? |
| 21:14.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | proto_v2 a 4-layer would be great |
| 21:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | for final we expect to need at least 4 layers for LOWER and 8 layers for UPPER |
| 21:15.43 | ceene | 4 layers is a moderately simple design |
| 21:16.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | TI claims you could do the OMAP BGA breakout with 6 layers, but... meh |
| 21:16.30 | ceene | i know altium does some magic with bga footprints |
| 21:16.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's highly appreciated |
| 21:17.04 | ceene | but maybe that requires a more expensive manufacturing technology, class 8 vs class 7 |
| 21:17.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly the point: for final we need to check what our PCB house can do |
| 21:17.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for how much ;-) |
| 21:18.07 | ceene | where are you manufacturing? |
| 21:18.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I have no clue where Nikolaus got the PCB from |
| 21:18.38 | ceene | i can provide prices for some boards we've done, just have to look at old receipts |
| 21:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | those are prolly for a bazillion of boards |
| 21:19.17 | ceene | oh, no |
| 21:19.22 | ceene | we do very small batches |
| 21:19.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | we only need 10 to start with, then later on 500 or 1000 |
| 21:19.30 | ceene | less than ten each time |
| 21:19.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 21:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok |
| 21:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 21:19.40 | ceene | https://techdocs.altium.com/display/ADOH/Fanout+and+Escape+Routes fanning out bga on altium |
| 21:19.57 | ceene | biggest drawback of our manufacturer is starting price |
| 21:20.16 | ceene | a new order is at least ~1000 euros |
| 21:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, 1mm pitch |
| 21:20.32 | ceene | but they do a pretty exhaustive verification of the design |
| 21:20.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got 0.4mm iirc |
| 21:21.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, those costs are expected |
| 21:21.41 | ceene | well. altium doesn't care, it's just a matter of defining minimum line width and other constraints, such as via size, etc |
| 21:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly, and to get to know what is the min line width the PCB manuf can handle safely |
| 21:22.29 | ceene | that's right |
| 21:22.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly in-pad vias, capped |
| 21:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | buried vias, etc |
| 21:23.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess a in-pad via design is way more reliable than interleaved offset vias in a FPBGA |
| 21:24.15 | ceene | http://www.lab-circuits.com/en/index.php |
| 21:24.33 | ceene | this is our manufacturer, i think their design rules are somewhere on the site |
| 21:25.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | great |
| 21:25.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'll ask Nikolaus about the same |
| 21:25.27 | ceene | the one that populates the components is another company |
| 21:25.39 | ceene | for bga we've been told no vias under pads |
| 21:25.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, we have GC for that |
| 21:25.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 21:26.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | only capped vias, yes |
| 21:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | open vias, even plugged vias are an absolute nogo |
| 21:26.43 | ceene | yep |
| 21:26.55 | ceene | http://www.lab-circuits.com/en/para_fabricacio_multicapa.php |
| 21:27.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 21:29.26 | ceene | boards themselves are quite cheap in the end |
| 21:29.36 | ceene | first batch though is expensive |
| 21:30.11 | ceene | i'll try and find some receipts tomorrow for different circuits |
| 21:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 21:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if we get away with CLASS6 for final |
| 21:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't see stacked microvias |
| 21:31.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, they are a mess anyway, aiui |
| 21:32.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | also don't see capped vias but I'm sure they can do this |
| 21:33.05 | ceene | yes, no problem |
| 21:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually I think it's 'plated vias' |
| 21:33.37 | ceene | i think they can do almost anything |
| 21:34.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, the min track width and min via diameter and ratio are looking good, the rest is basically derived values |
| 21:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ratio up to 13 is extremely good aiui |
| 21:36.17 | ceene | well, my n900 is crying out for power, so i should go to sleep and recharche myself too |
| 21:36.26 | ceene | recharge |
| 21:36.35 | ceene | the other thing sounds too french |
| 21:36.43 | ceene | recharchè |
| 21:36.48 | ceene | i'm sure it exists |
| 21:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I should finally change that crying dieing HDD |
| 21:37.12 | ceene | i had one hdd that crashed miserably |
| 21:37.20 | ceene | put them out |
| 21:37.31 | ceene | two weeks later it started working again flawlessly |
| 21:37.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 21:37.47 | ceene | never failed again... i won't ever understando how or why |
| 21:37.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | mine has 24 bad sectors meanwhile |
| 21:38.07 | ceene | that's not too bad |
| 21:38.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not, if those bad sectors where always there |
| 21:38.30 | ceene | unless 24 more follow those, and over and over |
| 21:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | it started with 12, then 18 then 24 |
| 21:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 21:38.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | during 2 days |
| 21:39.04 | ceene | that's only an arithmetic progression |
| 21:39.12 | ceene | it can go like that for a year |
| 21:39.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 21:39.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I nevertheless will swap it for a RAID1(?) of two decens enterprise grade server disks |
| 21:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.seagate.com/de/de/internal-hard-drives/enterprise-hard-drives/hdd/enterprise-capacity-3-5-hdd/?sku=ST2000NM0033 |
| 21:40.45 | ceene | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/one-billion-hours-on-and-hgst-still-rules-the-roost-for-hard-disk-reliability/ |
| 21:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas I already bought them, learned about HGST only later |
| 21:40.55 | ceene | you may be interested in that |
| 21:41.00 | ceene | just read it today |
| 21:41.26 | ceene | oh, that's it |
| 21:41.38 | ceene | well, this thing is gonna shut off, so night night! |
| 21:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/ |
| 21:42.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | n8 ceene |
| 21:45.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, I hope the seagate will behave. If not, I got a RAID and a hardware shop nearby |
| 21:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...a RAID, and a... |
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