IRC log for #mseide on 20080325

00:19.33*** join/#mseide smarty (n=guest@host86-134-117-163.range86-134.btcentralplus.com)
00:21.14*** part/#mseide smarty (n=guest@host86-134-117-163.range86-134.btcentralplus.com)
11:35.27*** join/#mseide edubuntux-jurgis (n=ubuntu@ctv-84-55-2-110.init.lt)
11:38.17edubuntux-jurgison ubuntu -- trying  to make a new program, mseide complains
11:38.29edubuntux-jurgisFile "apps/ide/templates/default/program.pas" not found
11:41.15edubuntux-jurgisok, found Settings->configure,
11:41.26edubuntux-jurgisbut still should I make templates myself, or is there some distribution
11:46.05edubuntux-jurgisby the way, do you know someone, who uses mseide on ubuntu?
11:59.04edubuntux-jurgisand what does it mean "Fatal: No source file name in command line"
11:59.30edubuntux-jurgisis when I try to compile the very simple program
11:59.39edubuntux-jurgisthe first snippet from http://pascalprogramming.byethost15.com/lesson1.php
12:02.28edubuntux-jurgisthe program works fine with text ide fp (its like old turbopascal)
12:06.42Manuhave you visited this page? http://homepage.bluewin.ch/msegui/
12:07.28Manuyou must follow the Instalation steps to get MSEide working
12:08.15ManuThen to create a new project: Project->New->From Template
12:08.36Manuselect the template: default.prj and press OK button
12:09.10ManuSelect a dir where you want to save your project (or create a new one) enter the project name and press OK button
12:10.06ManuIn Settings->Configure MSEide you have to set the ${MSEDIR} var
12:10.31Manufor example: /home/user/mseide-msegui
12:10.44Manu(the directory where MSEide is)
12:12.02ManuTo create console projects you must use the console.prj template
12:13.59Manuedubuntux-jurgis: try it :)
13:00.03edubuntux-jurgisyes I have set ${MSEDIR}
13:00.40edubuntux-jurgisbut for new project there is also issue with dirs, as the zip  I downloaded from sf.net has only one bin and no templates
13:00.58edubuntux-jurgisbut I understand it's possible tu complile just a program (without having a project)
13:21.15Manuyou must download the bin and the sources edubuntux-jurgis
13:21.49Manuvisit http://homepage.bluewin.ch/msegui/ and follow the installation instructions
13:22.21Manuyou must download mseide_msegui_src_1_6.zip and mseide_bin_1_6.zip
13:23.09Manuand the var ${MSEDIR} must be set to the directory where the sources are
13:46.17edubuntux-jurgishey, so why don't you package them in one :)
13:46.37edubuntux-jurgisnow new project from default template trying to compile
13:46.38edubuntux-jurgismsesetlocale.pas(5,6) Fatal: Can't find unit libc used by msesetlocale
13:47.15edubuntux-jurgisa, by the way I try 1.8 (I think it should do at least defautl stuf ok)
13:49.01edubuntux-jurgissame with open demo.prj
13:49.31Manuit's a ubuntu issue (the missed libc unit)
13:50.24Manutry to use the FPC binaries from Free Pascal site, or just join #fpc and ask
13:50.28Manuthis is MSEide :)
13:50.38Manu#fpc is for general Free Pascal questions
13:50.57Manubecause I'm not ubuntu user, dunno what's the best fix
13:51.24Manuonce I used it and got it working downloading Free Pascal from FPC site
13:51.35Manuinstead of using the FPC ubuntu packages
13:57.24edubuntux-jurgisha even though libc is missing the project from program mentioned in http://pascalprogramming.byethost15.com/lesson1.php seems to work
13:57.45edubuntux-jurgisthough I don't see any console window..
13:57.59edubuntux-jurgisI call target console, but this doesn't help
13:59.15edubuntux-jurgisI mean, where should I look for write/writeln output
13:59.17edubuntux-jurgis?
14:33.09ManuMenu View->Console
14:33.23Manuedubuntux-jurgis: ^----
14:37.29edubuntux-jurgis"I call target console, but this doesn't help" -- can this be the issue of 1.8 beta
14:37.37edubuntux-jurgis?
14:38.58ManuI use 1.8 and trunk, but no problems
15:26.32edubuntux-jurgisby the way, do I need fpc-soure like in Lazarus
15:27.27edubuntux-jurgisby the way,  found some mysteriuos things with console -- the programs get input from console -- but don't output anyting to it??
15:27.54edubuntux-jurgisnow using Lesson1_Program3 from http://pascalprogramming.byethost15.com/lesson1.php
15:33.19Manuyes, you can display something with: writeln('whatever');
15:37.27edubuntux-jurgisthats the problem, that it doesn't show up
15:41.45Manuit's weird
15:42.43edubuntux-jurgisok, there's the rub
15:42.45edubuntux-jurgisuses  {$ifdef FPC}{$ifdef linux}cthreads{$endif}{$endif};
15:42.50Manuis there the Target Console opened?
15:43.08edubuntux-jurgisif I just start new project -> from program
15:43.16ManuI just did a hello world console project and it works fine:
15:43.22Manuprogram test;
15:43.23Manu{$ifdef FPC}{$mode objfpc}{$h+}{$INTERFACES CORBA}{$endif}
15:43.23Manu{$ifdef mswindows}{$apptype console}{$endif}
15:43.23Manuuses {$ifdef FPC}{$ifdef linux}cthreads,{$endif}{$endif} sysutils;
15:43.23Manubegin writeln('hello world');
15:43.33Manuend;
15:43.37Manumeand end.
15:43.43Manumean*
15:44.10edubuntux-jurgisyes -- directives seems to be important :)
15:44.11Manuprogram test;
15:44.11Manu{$ifdef FPC}{$mode objfpc}{$h+}{$INTERFACES CORBA}{$endif}
15:44.11Manu{$ifdef mswindows}{$apptype console}{$endif}
15:44.11Manuuses {$ifdef FPC}{$ifdef linux}cthreads,{$endif}{$endif} sysutils;
15:44.11Manubegin writeln('hello world');
15:44.13Manuend.
15:44.16Manuthis is better
15:46.12edubuntux-jurgisyes that means that coder has  to copy the directives from console.prj example to his program, when he starts Project -> New -> From Program
15:46.35edubuntux-jurgisI think You could not it somewhere in readme or doc's,
15:46.37edubuntux-jurgisok, Thanks
15:47.36Manunew from template..
15:48.00ManuMSEide lacks in docs
15:48.10Manuthat's the main problem for the new users
15:48.44Manubut once you understand how it works, it's pretty easy to use it
15:48.54edubuntux-jurgisthese directives seem to talk about FPC
15:49.05edubuntux-jurgisso why fp (text ide) works without them?
15:49.34edubuntux-jurgisa, ups, fp text ide is in console itself :)
15:50.17Manubecause MSEide is cross platform
15:50.51Manuit uses default directives to be windows and linux compatible
15:51.18Manumain reason of MSEide is to develop MSEide+MSEgui applicationis
15:51.22Manuapplications*
15:51.52Manuit dones't require external widgets toolkits like GTK2, QT..
15:51.55Manuit uses directly X in linux and GDI in windows
15:52.36Manuand MSEide uses CORBA model
19:01.27fpcfanwow there has been some talk :-)
19:26.53Manuheh :)
20:56.47*** join/#mseide edubuntux-jurgis (n=ubuntu@ctv-84-55-2-110.init.lt)
20:57.16edubuntux-jurgisis there mseide icon available in plain picture format? :)
20:57.27edubuntux-jurgiswe want to include it in ubuntu programs menu
21:25.55Manunope :/
21:27.24Manuthe image is a Leontopodium (snow flower)
21:28.01Manuthis image: http://lh3.google.com/_w9l1u97ZpYw/Rxky0Fk6kDI/AAAAAAAACUc/Hl3AOFKrkc4/s800/2005_0803+092a.jpg
21:28.37Manuor this one: http://reddeparquesnacionales.mma.es/parques/ordesa/flora/img/35.jpg
21:51.01*** join/#mseide mdaems (i=Miranda@d5152BBAF.access.telenet.be)
22:05.09*** join/#mseide mdaems (i=Miranda@d5152BBAF.access.telenet.be)
22:15.58edubuntux-jurgisi just screenshoted it http://popmokslas.projektas.lt/etc/mseide.png
22:17.19Manulooks fine :)
22:17.46Manuso are you going to add MSEide to ubuntu?
22:30.02mdaemsIf so... What MSEide version? MSEide still changes daily. Ideally current SVN version should be used at least once a week.
22:30.29Manumdaems: there are stable MSEide+MSEgui versions :)
22:30.48Manubut advanced users use svn trunk ;)
22:30.53mdaemsYeah, sometimes they are build.
22:31.09mdaemsBut they are old....
22:31.33mdaems...by the time they are available.
22:31.53Manuold? not so old
22:32.36Manubut you can use trunk version because it's very stable too
22:32.51Manuand bugs are quickly fixed
22:32.56Manuas you know :)
22:33.55mdaemsLet's say 'outdated'. I solved it by correcting the SVN update/build script in such a way that I just have to click e menu item to get the newest version, Zeoslib included.
22:35.07Manuwell, MSEide+MSEgui is growing, I guess there are a lot of work to do yet
22:35.16Manuthings happens quick
22:35.21mdaemsIn my opinion an Ubuntu build based on the releases is almost useless to atract new users at the moment.
22:35.47mdaemsIt should be VERY easy to upgrade at the moment.
22:35.51Manuubuntu releases every 6 monts
22:35.57ManuI guess it's enough
22:36.01Manumonths*
22:36.18Manuavanced users once get familiarized with MSEide can try the svn version
22:36.38mdaemsYes, if MSEide were mature enough t the moment.
22:36.42Manuthen they don't need packages nor instalation
22:37.00Manuisn't mature? I use it in real cases with exit
22:37.34Manumy POS is working 24 hours a day and no errors (for now) :)
22:37.50mdaemsI have the impression it's still moving too quickly to call releases 'stable'
22:38.25Manustable means that version is not going to change :)
22:38.40Manulike feature freezed
22:38.48Manufrozen
22:39.06mdaemsWell, that's what is missing at the moment I think.
22:39.24Manunew features are added in trunk
22:39.36Manuit happens for every project out there, not only MSE
22:40.01mdaemsI believe that...
22:40.04Manufor example you use FPC stable.. but in svn new features are added
22:40.35Manubut using a stable version you are sure nothing you do is going to be broken
22:40.44Manuat last until the next release.. hehe
22:41.20mdaemsRight.
22:41.41Manuthe same happens with ZeosLib, right? :)
22:42.54mdaemsYes... But I'm an amateur.
22:43.06mdaems(Is that english?)
22:43.15ManuI understand it ;)
22:43.38Manunoob, newbie, amateur :)
22:44.19Manu~dict amateur
22:44.35mdaemsMaybe I'm wrong, but I have the impression all MSExxx users are on trunk.
22:44.45mdaemsSo it's english...
22:44.49Manuyes
22:45.00mdaemsWhy bother about release versions?
22:45.30Manuwell, I use the trunk version. I consider it stable enough
22:45.58Manuif problems, I always can rollback to a working version
22:46.00mdaemsAs long as that 'everybody is on trunk'  thing is true? (Which isn't the case for zeoslib)
22:46.27ManuI guess not everybody is in trunk, only the users in the news
22:47.11mdaemsBig question : who are the other users? How many downloads do the releases get?
22:47.47Manulemme check it...
22:48.14mdaemsI think I remember download 500.
22:48.19Manustable version (1.6) 1148 downloads
22:48.29Manu1.8 beta1 81 downloads
22:48.34mdaemsOhh. Nice
22:48.48mdaemsI stop talking...
22:49.07Manuand the beta was released on 2008-03-21
22:49.15Manu:)
22:49.21ManuI gotta go to sleep soon :/

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