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| 00:16.13 | Termana | good morning |
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| 07:20.15 | slaine | morning all |
| 07:20.55 | thiago_home | morning slaine |
| 07:21.22 | sx0n | morning |
| 07:21.35 | slaine | now for some coffee to make it official |
| 07:22.25 | Stskeeps | passes slaine the pot of coffee |
| 07:22.55 | slaine | hmmmm, black and smooth. Just the way I like my.....erm.....coffee |
| 07:23.00 | slaine | ;) |
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| 07:26.44 | slaine | Stskeeps: pity none of the TSG answered your query about the big reveals |
| 07:26.52 | thiago_home | dirk did |
| 07:26.56 | Stskeeps | dirk isn't in TSG |
| 07:26.56 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 07:27.05 | thiago_home | right, but he's imad's right hand |
| 07:27.08 | slaine | and pity not a one meego team lead responded to mine |
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| 07:27.16 | slaine | thiago_home: ah, didn't know that |
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| 07:28.57 | Stskeeps | well, would be good to hear it from them directly as well - i'll be asking on the TSG meeting at least. dirk's opinion was good, but it's difficult to interact with strawmen (bad term, i know) of TSG without knowing they are :) |
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| 07:45.16 | *** topic/#meego is MeeGo - http://meego.com - FAQ: http://meego.com/about/faq | This channel is logged, see them at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who - add yourself | Blog post, Day One is here: http://bit.ly/9sQdbg | The Next TSG meeting is 19 May 19:00 UTC, http://bit.ly/9L3vpy in #meego-meeting. |
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| 08:56.31 | Tuju | http://meego.com/developers/getting-started how one installs a 'meego toolchain' into fedora? or is that just a bundle term for already existing tools? |
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| 08:57.53 | Tuju | if that requires this http://repo.meego.com/tools/repos/fedora/12/ , it should read on that page. |
| 08:58.44 | Tuju | also, that repo config could be in rpm so that would install automatically. |
| 08:59.03 | slaine | Tuju: those tools are for making meego images |
| 08:59.13 | slaine | nothing to do with getting started developing applications |
| 08:59.19 | Tuju | ack |
| 08:59.25 | slaine | On the getting started page, they tell you what to install |
| 08:59.44 | slaine | namely Qt Creator and a compiler tools chain |
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| 09:00.14 | Tuju | it would be more obvious if it would have a list of software packages for example. |
| 09:00.20 | slaine | There's no MeeGo-SDK at present, so a basic Qt application is the way to go for now |
| 09:01.00 | slaine | well, each system has it's own packages |
| 09:01.26 | slaine | there's a certain level of assumption there I guess that you as a developer whould know how to install the developer tools on your host system |
| 09:01.28 | Tuju | slaine: for example, # yum install 'Qt Creator' --> No package Qt Creator available. |
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| 09:01.50 | Tuju | slaine: i maintain packages in fedora so i do know something about the topic. |
| 09:02.22 | Tuju | knowing something doesn't mean that instructions could be clear. :) |
| 09:02.32 | slaine | Tuju: so you're being pedantic to make a point ? |
| 09:02.41 | Tuju | trying to make a point. |
| 09:03.32 | slaine | Well, the pages are setup on a wiki for just this reason. Contributions are welcomed to make things easier |
| 09:03.37 | Tuju | for example, some developing enviroments require some specific versions etc. I started thinking, does this have some kind of chrooted toolchain or are we just using the regular system tools? |
| 09:04.53 | Tuju | i just logged in, so i guess i'm not in the stage of modifying things/telling others, being wiki or not. |
| 09:06.18 | stefan99 | email the mailinglist about your consern and maybe some people will notice it |
| 09:06.47 | Tuju | i think 369 people already did. |
| 09:07.54 | stefan99 | well maybe its not so high on the priority list then |
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| 09:13.17 | Tuju | so where do i get that 'virtual machine' ? |
| 09:14.30 | stefan99 | well for example here |
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| 09:14.37 | stefan99 | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/0.9/0.9.80.2.20100512.1/ivi/images/meego-preview-ivi-noemgd-ia32/ |
| 09:14.58 | stefan99 | use the iso to install in virtual box |
| 09:15.09 | Tuju | ack |
| 09:15.11 | Tuju | thanks |
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| 09:16.21 | stefan99 | its "MeeGo 1.0 In-Vehicle" but pretty much standard desktop with xfce |
| 09:16.39 | Ionakka | <Tuju> slaine: for example, # yum install 'Qt Creator' --> No package Qt Creator available. <--- which page says that you can install rpm package named 'Qt Creator'? o.O |
| 09:17.02 | Tuju | ivi stands for something 'in vehicle' ? |
| 09:17.12 | stefan99 | probably |
| 09:17.42 | jusliukk | ivi = in-vehicle information |
| 09:17.42 | Tuju | Ionakka: you missed my point but it's okay, nevermind. |
| 09:17.51 | stefan99 | http://www.vimeo.com/11779730 |
| 09:17.59 | stefan99 | there is a video of which someone made |
| 09:18.44 | stefan99 | one of my best sentences.. ;) |
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| 09:19.56 | slaine | sorry, was away from keyboard, packing up some gear for a courier |
| 09:20.33 | slaine | Tuju: well, as suggested, contributions are welcome. Most of us here are like yourself |
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| 09:21.52 | Tuju | how is this meego in license point of view, is there a some kind of diagram of components somewhere and list of their licenses? |
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| 09:23.06 | Stskeeps | core system and UX'es are fully open source, hardware adaptations may occasionally be more usable with closed source drivers |
| 09:23.10 | Tuju | http://meego.com/about/licensing-policy |
| 09:23.39 | Corsac | Stskeeps: nice way to say it :) |
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| 09:26.07 | slaine | Is there still the issue with copyright waiver on patches ? |
| 09:26.40 | smoku | especially with you're chosing between closed drivers and no drivers :> |
| 09:27.55 | Stskeeps | slaine: as far as i can tell, it wouldn't be a waiver, but it would be an assertion that you own the code/can push legally and do not push illegal stuff etc.. |
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| 09:29.35 | slaine | Stskeeps: ok, thats different to what I'm referring to |
| 09:29.53 | Stskeeps | slaine: (which fwiw is a fair thing to do :P) |
| 09:29.56 | slaine | basically, on Moblin, if you submit a patch, you've to give up all rights to it, iirc |
| 09:29.58 | Stskeeps | copyright waiver is worse |
| 09:30.14 | slaine | yeah, that's what I'm talking about |
| 09:30.19 | slaine | Moblin has that |
| 09:30.59 | Stskeeps | worth starting a thread about? |
| 09:31.33 | Stskeeps | ah |
| 09:31.34 | Stskeeps | no |
| 09:31.42 | Stskeeps | MeeGo project will neither require nor accept copyright assignment for code contributions. The principle behind this is on the one hand to avoid extra bureaucracy or other obstacles discouraging contributions. On the other hand the idea is to emphasize that contributors themselves carry the rights and responsibilities associated with their code. MeeGo is a common concern of its project community and all participants should represent ... |
| 09:31.48 | Stskeeps | ... themselves and continuously influence the result through their own contribution. |
| 09:32.25 | Tuju | what i read, the UX will be under proprietary license then. |
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| 09:32.45 | Stskeeps | what makes you say that? |
| 09:33.30 | Tuju | 'framework tech must allow linking of proprietary components' sounds like it. |
| 09:33.48 | Stskeeps | no, that just means that there's room for differentiation |
| 09:34.14 | Stskeeps | personally doesn't mind closed plugins if the framework's sole purpose isn't to provide for closed plugins |
| 09:34.18 | Tuju | which is quite blurry concept. |
| 09:34.40 | Stskeeps | that's what might come on a vendor device. |
| 09:34.42 | tmzt | what legal framework is that supposed to fall into? |
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| 09:36.22 | stefan99 | closed source etc has a place in linux, better get used to it |
| 09:36.27 | stefan99 | look at ubuntu one |
| 09:36.53 | stefan99 | it will grow more and more |
| 09:37.44 | Stskeeps | :nod: |
| 09:37.54 | Stskeeps | you're only as good as your drivers, properitary or otherwise |
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| 11:58.27 | Siva_ | hi guys.. |
| 11:58.53 | Siva_ | can any body provide a link to source code of the meego webruntime.... |
| 11:59.52 | Siva_ | any ideas...? |
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| 12:02.15 | zaheerm | it is not released yet i believe |
| 12:02.30 | Tumi_ | is there any idea about release date? |
| 12:03.02 | zaheerm | Tumi_, meego 1.0 with netbook ux is due in may |
| 12:03.14 | fraggeln | zaheerm: and meego for n900? :D |
| 12:03.28 | Siva_ | oh is it |
| 12:03.47 | Siva_ | but does nokia n900 which is a meego phone doesnt support webruntime...? |
| 12:04.00 | zaheerm | fraggeln, meego 1.0 with handset ux is due shortly after the nertbook ux one |
| 12:04.21 | zaheerm | Siva_, the n900 runs maemo 5 and does not have web runtime on it yet |
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| 12:04.59 | fraggeln | zaheerm: cool. |
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| 12:05.29 | Siva_ | oh thanks zaheer......the memo current release does have wrt...? or still they are implementing...it..? |
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| 12:05.45 | Siva_ | i mean meego |
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| 12:06.30 | slaine | Nothing tangible has been released yet. you might be able to install it from the repo's, not sure |
| 12:06.58 | slaine | I'd give the handset ux release at least a month after the netbook release |
| 12:07.01 | zaheerm | Siva_, no Web runtime is not available yet |
| 12:07.35 | Siva_ | thanks zaheer.. |
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| 12:11.40 | zaheerm | Siva_, however http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/google-gadgets-meego is available, this tries to make google gadgets (the ones on igoogle) run on meego |
| 12:12.02 | Siva_ | oh.. |
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| 13:12.54 | stskeepsie | morning DawnFoster |
| 13:13.20 | DawnFoster | morning stskeepsie |
| 13:14.47 | DawnFoster | stskeeps: the meego meetbot seems to be missing from meego-meeting? |
| 13:15.17 | stskeepsie | yes, hence my special nick. I think it's just a temporary network outage at where i host that and my IRC client |
| 13:15.24 | stskeepsie | as all the other servers are offline as well |
| 13:15.44 | stskeepsie | a meeting scheduled for today? |
| 13:15.47 | DawnFoster | hmmm, we have a meeting in 45 min |
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| 13:15.57 | DawnFoster | community office meeting |
| 13:16.09 | stskeepsie | i'll set up an emergency one then. hang o |
| 13:16.10 | stskeepsie | b |
| 13:16.10 | stskeepsie | n |
| 13:16.25 | DawnFoster | thanks |
| 13:16.50 | X-Fade | Last resort is to post the irc log itself though. |
| 13:17.02 | stskeepsie | yeah, i can always replay it if need be |
| 13:17.08 | DawnFoster | X-Fade: exactly |
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| 13:18.09 | DawnFoster | stskeeps: in other words, we'd issue the meetbot commands, and you'd run meetbot on the logs later (like we did to fix last week?) |
| 13:18.27 | stskeepsie | yes, but i'm working on getting a bot up anyway :) |
| 13:18.37 | DawnFoster | coolio |
| 13:21.13 | timeless_mbp | hi DawnFoster |
| 13:21.28 | DawnFoster | hi timeless_mbp |
| 13:22.28 | timeless_mbp | 17621 timeless 25 0 521m 513m 2016 R 5.4 30.2 109:24.90 genxref |
| 13:22.30 | timeless_mbp | sighs |
| 13:22.40 | timeless_mbp | 19 97734 of 304234... 209 defs |
| 13:22.46 | javispedro | mxr? |
| 13:22.49 | timeless_mbp | yeah |
| 13:23.01 | javispedro | i'm seeing that the parser seems less accurate as of lately |
| 13:23.04 | timeless_mbp | it's um.. "not done" with repo.meego.com |
| 13:23.25 | javispedro | specially the search results page tends to confuse declarations, definitions and uses |
| 13:23.39 | timeless_mbp | yeah, those bits were never perfect |
| 13:23.50 | timeless_mbp | heck, its C handling tended to double things :) |
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| 13:23.59 | timeless_mbp | should try to fix that |
| 13:24.03 | javispedro | it's a hard problem either way |
| 13:24.09 | javispedro | and at least it's usable, so not really a problem |
| 13:25.25 | timeless_mbp | Mem: 1740944k total, 1726788k used, 14156k free, 101024k buffers |
| 13:25.56 | timeless_mbp | hrm, i suppose the fact that mxr is using 500mb of ram and there's only 14mb of ram left when it's only 1/3rd through the parsing could be a problem :( |
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| 13:32.30 | slaine | thiago: got Qt using the GTK+ style, thanks for the type (ran qtconfig-qt4 and changed from Default to GTK+) |
| 13:32.38 | slaine | Where does that setting get saved though ? |
| 13:32.50 | slaine | I want to include the setting in an /etc/skel |
| 13:33.09 | thiago | ~/.config/Trolltech.conf |
| 13:33.14 | thiago | but there's a default file that is read |
| 13:33.22 | thiago | let me read qsettings sources |
| 13:33.28 | timeless_mbp | chuckles |
| 13:33.35 | CosmoHill | hey slaine |
| 13:33.40 | slaine | Hey |
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| 13:35.23 | luist | can anyone here help me with some moblin graphic problem? :) |
| 13:35.32 | slaine | ask and we'll try |
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| 13:36.44 | thiago | slaine: it also reads /etc/xdg/Trolltech.conf, if I'm reading this right |
| 13:36.46 | CosmoHill | luist: does it invole nvidia? |
| 13:36.50 | thiago | and /Trolltech.conf, which makes no sense |
| 13:37.37 | luist | CosmoHill, hm... i rebuilt a moblin application to run in suse 11.1, but im getting error: ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to find suitable GL visual. and it wont load the graphic interface because of that... in an specific computer i installed a video driver and it worked... but i cant make it work on intel video cards... (it works in suse 11.2 in all computers) what am i missing? |
| 13:37.45 | slaine | thiago: I assume the /etc/xdg/Trolltech.conf is the same format as the one I just created in ~/.config ? |
| 13:37.48 | CosmoHill | should have stayed quiet |
| 13:37.59 | thiago | slaine: yes |
| 13:38.07 | luist | CosmoHill, true :D |
| 13:38.21 | CosmoHill | if I'm honest, I have no idea |
| 13:38.29 | CosmoHill | I just came online to find one person who isn't there |
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| 13:38.57 | thiago | slaine: standard .desktop-style cascading configuration file |
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| 13:39.13 | slaine | thiago: cheers |
| 13:39.22 | sankar | Hi |
| 13:39.35 | thiago | but it's not a .desktop file, it's a QSettings INI-style file |
| 13:39.49 | sankar | I would like to know whether the ofono telephony stack provide any apis for the applications? |
| 13:39.59 | thiago | QSettings can read .desktop files, but it can save things that aren't .desktop |
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| 13:40.05 | thiago | sankar: it does |
| 13:40.07 | slaine | luist: FunkyPenguin might be able to help out there ??? |
| 13:40.40 | sankar | is it like a direct c api or how is it defined, can you please elaborate more on this |
| 13:41.34 | sankar | from the code reading it looks like, the ofono stack exposes certain dbus methods to the applications and applications need to call these methods |
| 13:42.30 | luist | FunkyPenguin, wake up :D |
| 13:43.14 | CosmoHill | hates his assignment |
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| 13:43.48 | CosmoHill | only in project management could you get a difference of £1.2 million between two options |
| 13:44.32 | FunkyPenguin | luist, sorry, i missed your issue :) |
| 13:44.48 | luist | FunkyPenguin, hm... i rebuilt a moblin application to run in suse 11.1, but im getting error: ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to find suitable GL visual. and it wont load the graphic interface because of that... in an specific computer i installed a video driver and it worked... but i cant make it work on intel video cards... (it works in suse 11.2 in all computers) what am i missing? |
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| 13:45.31 | FunkyPenguin | luist, what graphics chipset? |
| 13:45.51 | FunkyPenguin | I didnt have any issues with 2.0 or 2.1 on 11.1 |
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| 13:48.14 | luist | FunkyPenguin, i tried with sis671, but i installed the driver and it worked.. but i cant make it work with intel |
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| 13:51.09 | luist | FunkyPenguin, it works on suse 11.2 so i think im missing something that is not the driver |
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| 13:58.41 | sankar | How does the ofono stack communicate with the vendor specific cellular stacks |
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| 14:00.38 | lcuk | sankar, shouldnt most people not care? ie most will treat ofono as black box to do its job? or are you tihnking from a specific vendor pov? |
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| 14:01.56 | sankar | my question is it uses the gstreamer to exchange the at commands, for standard at based modem, same is the case with the vendor specif ones? |
| 14:02.02 | luist | FunkyPenguin, this is how its running on suse 11.2: http://imagebin.org/97327 |
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| 14:07.59 | timeless_mbp | sankar: that seems unlikely |
| 14:08.06 | timeless_mbp | presumably ofono is pluggable |
| 14:08.17 | FunkyPenguin | luist, i think it might be a case of some funky patches needed to get things running smooth on 11.1 - I forget tbh |
| 14:08.23 | timeless_mbp | and i don't think that 'at' commands are part of an audio stack... |
| 14:08.34 | timeless_mbp | so i suspect you're at least confusing your stacks |
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| 14:09.28 | speculatrix | I have a US15W/GMA500-based netbook (fujitsu u820), and I am trying out meego IVI. It boots up fine, but if I choose the install option and try for custom partitioning, it can't start the partitioner and then wants to reboot. |
| 14:09.42 | FunkyPenguin | luist, im currently trying to make sure the last of the packages are in for Factory/11.3 and things seem to be going well |
| 14:09.52 | speculatrix | I downloaded the ISO from here and copied it to a flash drive... http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/0.9/0.9.80.2.20100512.1/ivi/images/meego-preview-ivi-noemgd-ia32/ |
| 14:09.54 | sankar | I agree at commands are not part of audio stack but they are part of cellular stack. |
| 14:10.23 | sankar | my question is, whether new plugins can be added, which will interact with the cellular stacks |
| 14:10.29 | speculatrix | meego runs fine "live" booted off usb flash drive |
| 14:10.55 | speculatrix | is this a known problem? should I report it as a bug? |
| 14:11.41 | luist | FunkyPenguin, well maybe i can make it uses less (or none) graphic resources ? |
| 14:11.55 | luist | FunkyPenguin, i just need this application to work asap... |
| 14:15.29 | luist | FunkyPenguin, this is the configure.ac http://pastie.org/965603 |
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| 14:21.03 | slaine | speculatrix: I've not tried it, but that sounds like a bug |
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| 14:31.44 | speculatrix | never mind, I have created bug report: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2261 |
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| 14:41.41 | stskeepsie | can only hope the karma discussion dies down after a decision has been made and argued |
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| 14:46.53 | slaine | thinks karma is a waste of time |
| 14:47.13 | stskeepsie | i think metrics are more flexible and fits into more real-life situations |
| 14:47.41 | slaine | nod |
| 14:47.54 | stskeepsie | like, if we have a meetup for up-and-coming team members, we can measure/establish that with metrics, if we want a certain focus on a conference, we can choose from a wide data set |
| 14:47.57 | stskeepsie | :P |
| 14:49.32 | bergie | metrics are definitely needed |
| 14:50.12 | bergie | that is what a karma system would build on anyway :-) |
| 14:50.35 | *** part/#meego mic311 (~shu@kulnet-nat-2.kulnet.kuleuven.be) |
| 14:51.03 | stskeepsie | going full circle, it bends down to a bit of e-penis length competition since all the other uses are possible to measure with metrics :) |
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| 14:51.59 | GAN900 | Hey, those comparisons help drive activity. |
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| 14:52.26 | slaine | GAN900: not healthy activity though : |
| 14:53.36 | javispedro | healthy computing? where |
| 14:53.37 | javispedro | ? |
| 14:54.05 | slaine | What's OSU ??? |
| 14:54.11 | stskeepsie | slaine: osuosl |
| 14:54.21 | stskeepsie | (google it) |
| 14:55.04 | slaine | Ah, thanks |
| 14:55.18 | stskeepsie | great place for hosting |
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| 14:56.32 | yaledioma | . |
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| 14:58.54 | Termana | That was assuredly exciting I'm sure |
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| 15:05.50 | GAN900 | slaine, depends |
| 15:06.11 | GAN900 | slaine, personally, competing with timeless for top slot on bugs filed keeps me filing. |
| 15:06.22 | GAN900 | Seems healthy enough to me. |
| 15:06.46 | slaine | I was kidding in reference to stskeepsie comment |
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| 15:07.05 | GAN900 | slaine, ah. |
| 15:07.24 | timeless_mbp | and i don't even try! |
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| 15:07.24 | GAN900 | is only vaguely paying attention to things GAN900 isn't saying. :P |
| 15:07.27 | timeless_mbp | eep |
| 15:07.32 | timeless_mbp | although i did just crash excel |
| 15:07.36 | CosmoHill | :o |
| 15:07.40 | timeless_mbp | .mac |
| 15:07.44 | CosmoHill | I've crashed word 2010 a few times |
| 15:07.49 | GAN900 | Too bad that's not a Maemo product. :P |
| 15:07.52 | timeless_mbp | this is 2008 |
| 15:08.01 | CosmoHill | well 2010 comes out next month so... |
| 15:08.05 | CosmoHill | ^.^ |
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| 16:18.43 | CosmoHill | stabs MS project |
| 16:19.45 | robtaylor | CosmoHill: i feel for you.. |
| 16:20.11 | CosmoHill | thanks |
| 16:21.00 | CosmoHill | for each resource it gives me two team group error messages |
| 16:21.29 | CosmoHill | it might as well go going "something bad has happened but I can't tell you" |
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| 16:31.39 | Unmensch | hi, will meego be officially supported by nokia on the n900 or just be ported? |
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| 17:16.20 | Stskeeps | DawnFoster: meeting bot back up, log put up at http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-05-18-14.00.html |
| 17:17.07 | DawnFoster | stskeeps: great, thanks. I'm also happy to hear that your servers are back up :) |
| 17:17.52 | TSCHAKeee | :D |
| 17:18.11 | Stskeeps | so am i :P |
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| 17:59.14 | Stskeeps | it's an lbt abroad! |
| 17:59.28 | an_lbt_abroad | reclines on his deck chair |
| 18:01.01 | Stskeeps | how's the weather up there? |
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| 18:04.20 | an_lbt_abroad | really sunny |
| 18:04.30 | an_lbt_abroad | I bought shades 8) |
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| 18:04.57 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 18:05.35 | Stskeeps | floods and rain here - was supposed to go hiking in slovakian mountains this weekend, which seems unlikely, even though we're going with people who think it's a perfectly fine vacation to "go help secure the area with sandbags" |
| 18:05.41 | Stskeeps | (not my words) |
| 18:05.59 | an_lbt_abroad | gapes |
| 18:06.08 | an_lbt_abroad | err, no thanks |
| 18:06.35 | an_lbt_abroad | although hiking appeals... it's been a while |
| 18:06.36 | DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I can think of better things to do on vacation :) |
| 18:06.54 | an_lbt_abroad | I'm just drafting up a 'policy' proposal for tomorrow night |
| 18:06.59 | lcuk | Stskeeps, take bucket and spade and play ontop of the new artificial beach |
| 18:07.06 | Stskeeps | only time i'm doing that is when at a music festival, rain has been pouring for ages, and we need to protect the tents and beer from water. |
| 18:07.20 | CosmoHill | before I had a laptop I spent a lot of time reading on hoildays |
| 18:07.22 | pupnik_ | :) |
| 18:07.48 | an_lbt_abroad | paraphrased: the wiki is authoritative; it's OK to report a bugs if a package != wiki |
| 18:07.50 | CosmoHill | then i got a laptop and worked out how to teather my phone to it |
| 18:08.03 | an_lbt_abroad | (wrt packaging) |
| 18:08.24 | an_lbt_abroad | tether |
| 18:08.25 | Stskeeps | an_lbt_abroad: i still wonder how packaging/guidelines can sanely exist in a wiki |
| 18:08.34 | Stskeeps | ie, without being locked somehow |
| 18:08.37 | an_lbt_abroad | ah, that's part deux |
| 18:09.05 | an_lbt_abroad | all changes to the wiki should go via the mailing list and be approved by the packaging team |
| 18:09.28 | an_lbt_abroad | we may have to lock it but I hope not |
| 18:09.55 | an_lbt_abroad | right now I can (and do) just go in and change packaging policy |
| 18:10.03 | lcuk | why lock? its a wiki it has full history if something isnt liked it can be reverted |
| 18:10.22 | an_lbt_abroad | indeed lcuk... and typos and stuff |
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| 18:10.33 | DawnFoster | having wiki changes go through a mailing list is probably counterintuitive for most people |
| 18:11.04 | pupnik_ | agree with lcuk |
| 18:11.20 | lcuk | discussing whether to keep the changes is where the ML/discussion helps |
| 18:11.28 | an_lbt_abroad | http://pastie.org/966103 |
| 18:11.45 | an_lbt_abroad | DawnFoster: I agree - but it isn't a normal wiki page |
| 18:12.01 | DawnFoster | right, but people assume that it's on a wiki, so editing is ok |
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| 18:12.32 | an_lbt_abroad | Yep... we'll need to fix that. Maybe pages tagged 'policy' should have a header? |
| 18:12.51 | DawnFoster | not that you can't do it, but I expect that people will forget that certain pages are "special" and can't be edited |
| 18:12.54 | an_lbt_abroad | Either that or we set up another website to host the content |
| 18:13.01 | an_lbt_abroad | which sucks |
| 18:13.09 | *** join/#meego aloisiojr (~aloisio@200.184.118.130) |
| 18:13.13 | an_lbt_abroad | or lock it ... which also sucks |
| 18:13.45 | DawnFoster | or just deal with people forgetting and be prepared for a few reverts :) |
| 18:14.02 | lcuk | and if it grows to be a problem reexamine process |
| 18:14.11 | an_lbt_abroad | yup ... minimal suckage.... and a chance to recruit the writer |
| 18:14.11 | DawnFoster | agree with lcuk |
| 18:15.17 | an_lbt_abroad | so I put the draft email in the pastie... thoughts anyone? |
| 18:15.37 | an_lbt_abroad | I'd like to run it up to the TSG tomorrow |
| 18:16.27 | DawnFoster | we're already finalizing the TSG agenda & the agenda already might be too long |
| 18:16.47 | DawnFoster | You might need to wait for the next one. |
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| 18:17.34 | DawnFoster | In general, we start working on finalizing the agenda around 48 hours before the meeting - best shot to get into the TSG is to have your items prepped on the Friday before the TSG. |
| 18:18.03 | DawnFoster | we might be able to squeeze it in, but just letting you know it may not make it this week |
| 18:18.11 | an_lbt_abroad | DawnFoster: mmm... OK. This is coming from our product management at nokia. We'd appreciate it |
| 18:19.09 | DawnFoster | ultimately, Imad and Valtteri make the call on what gets on the agenda, but I think they might have finalized the agenda already |
| 18:19.18 | *** part/#meego apoirier (~apoirier@sakura.nagare.org) |
| 18:20.35 | an_lbt_abroad | OK. I'll drop it into the wiki anyway. If we have to wait another couple of weeks I'm *sure* they'll understand ;) |
| 18:21.01 | DawnFoster | cool, thanks |
| 18:21.31 | DawnFoster | btw, where are you vacationing abroad? |
| 18:21.57 | an_lbt_abroad | Helsinki |
| 18:22.06 | an_lbt_abroad | not quite a vacation.... |
| 18:22.14 | an_lbt_abroad | more a long commute |
| 18:22.25 | DawnFoster | I was picturing something more exotic - like palm trees :) |
| 18:22.35 | an_lbt_abroad | I picture that too... |
| 18:22.46 | an_lbt_abroad | and they think I'm just asleep in the meetings... |
| 18:23.31 | Stskeeps | DawnFoster: actually helsinki weather isn't half bad :) |
| 18:24.23 | DawnFoster | stskeeps: unless there are palm trees, it doesn't count (just kidding) |
| 18:24.27 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 18:24.40 | DawnFoster | Apparently, I must be ready for another beach vacation |
| 18:24.51 | Stskeeps | i can imagine |
| 18:26.53 | Stskeeps | my vacation this summer will probably be a week worth of good music, beer and living in a tent at a music festival. usually recharges me with positive energy for the rest of the year :) |
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| 18:33.06 | lcuk | DawnFoster, i concurr with these guys, helsinki is a lovely city |
| 18:33.29 | Stskeeps | when it's not snowing and you slip at each step due to ice |
| 18:33.58 | lcuk | lol yeah |
| 18:34.33 | Stskeeps | had his honeymoon in helsinki and still isn't sure that was a good choice |
| 18:34.57 | lcuk | it wasnt helsinki that was the problem, it was that nokia were your best man |
| 18:34.59 | DawnFoster | I'll have to find an excuse to visit (during the summer) :) |
| 18:35.31 | lcuk | DawnFoster, indeed |
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| 18:38.03 | arjan | don't go to helsinki in summer |
| 18:38.05 | arjan | it never gets dark |
| 18:38.12 | bzhb | Hi, I tried to execute the "widgetsgallery" demo from MeeGo Touch UI framework core, but I get that error: |
| 18:38.13 | arjan | votes for mid may ;) |
| 18:38.15 | bzhb | MRemoteThemeDaemon: Failed to connect to theme daemon (IPC) |
| 18:38.15 | bzhb | MThemeDaemon - base theme directory not found: /usr/local/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libmeegotouchcore/style. Please (re)install meegotouchtheme package. |
| 18:38.18 | inz | arjan, sure it does |
| 18:38.30 | arjan | inz: it gets darkER, but not really dark :) |
| 18:38.33 | lcuk | arjan, better than visiting in winter |
| 18:38.47 | lcuk | at least you can see the city |
| 18:40.09 | bzhb | I tried to reinstall duitheme, ut it doesn't solve the problem |
| 18:40.36 | bzhb | any idea ? |
| 18:41.28 | an_lbt_abroad | DawnFoster: I've added it here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings#Backlog_of_Proposed_Topics I really think this is a 'rubber stamp' |
| 18:42.27 | an_lbt_abroad | arjan: hey :) take a look at this for me? : http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Policy |
| 18:43.39 | an_lbt_abroad | about to send a mail to -dev.... just soliciting comments before I hit send (and putting it on the wiki so DawnFoster can add it to the TSG for tomorrow) |
| 18:43.47 | DawnFoster | I wonder if that really needs to go to the TSG? |
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| 18:44.02 | DawnFoster | could it be resolved at a lower level in the project? |
| 18:44.13 | DawnFoster | not everything needs to go to the TSG. |
| 18:44.38 | VDVsx | an_lbt_abroad, coming to HELL soon ? :D |
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| 18:45.02 | VDVsx | its true almost 22h and still a lot of light :D |
| 18:45.09 | DawnFoster | let's start with meego-dev and only take it to the TSG if we need some kind of resolution |
| 18:45.18 | an_lbt_abroad | DawnFoster: I think this does. We want to be clear to packagers that this is our official policy and it's a bug not to comply |
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| 18:45.48 | an_lbt_abroad | we bounced this around this afternoon and agreed that this would be the best approach |
| 18:45.49 | DawnFoster | but the packaging team can determine their policies? |
| 18:46.07 | DawnFoster | define "we" |
| 18:46.26 | an_lbt_abroad | the nokia team doing the internal build policy work |
| 18:47.03 | an_lbt_abroad | and understanding how product owners could manage/track bugs back into MeeGo |
| 18:47.32 | an_lbt_abroad | we (same team) are likely to spawn work spitting out bugs to MeeGo packagers |
| 18:47.50 | an_lbt_abroad | saying "your changelogs are wrong" |
| 18:47.56 | an_lbt_abroad | and they'll say "so" |
| 18:48.02 | DawnFoster | like I said, it's up to Imad and Valtteri to determine the agenda, but I think it might have already been finalized |
| 18:48.07 | luist | hey... i rebuilt a moblin application to run in suse 11.1, but im getting error: ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to find suitable GL visual. and it wont load the graphic interface because of that... in an specific computer i installed a video driver and it worked... but i cant make it work on intel video cards... (it works in suse 11.2 in all computers) what am i missing? |
| 18:48.07 | an_lbt_abroad | *nod* |
| 18:48.30 | an_lbt_abroad | it is supposed to be open until 24 hrs before |
| 18:48.43 | an_lbt_abroad | DawnFoster: this is why you have a policy... |
| 18:48.53 | an_lbt_abroad | it used to be 48.... |
| 18:49.01 | an_lbt_abroad | then it got revised.... |
| 18:49.10 | DawnFoster | no, it's supposed to be finalized 24 hrs before. Dropping something onto the proposed list 15 minutes before the deadline is unlikely to make it |
| 18:49.42 | DawnFoster | at some point, Imad and Valtteri need to time to talk about what they want on the agenda with enough lead time to get it finalized |
| 18:50.10 | an_lbt_abroad | OK |
| 18:50.23 | DawnFoster | there is no specific deadline for proposals. Maybe there should be. |
| 18:50.51 | Stskeeps | personally i wouldn't mind a week in discussion for any given proposal and then based on that it is tabled for tsg with a summary |
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| 18:51.10 | DawnFoster | keep in mind that Imad and Valtteri are both very busy. Getting a finalized agenda is difficult |
| 18:51.23 | DawnFoster | stskeeps: that's about what I was thinking, too |
| 18:51.35 | an_lbt_abroad | Stskeeps: but now they meet only every 2 weeks |
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| 18:52.25 | Stskeeps | well, a cyclus of tsg meeting - agenda prep meeting - tsg meeting could be interesting too |
| 18:52.39 | Stskeeps | or something |
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| 18:53.11 | Stskeeps | either way, this is just another example of the fact we don't have project structure with names out, leading proposals to be at too high levels (ie, TSG) |
| 18:53.17 | Stskeeps | so i hope there's news in that area :) |
| 18:53.58 | bzhb | Is there an other irc channel where I can find help for MeeGo Touch (aka DirectUI, aka Harmattan UI Framework) ? |
| 18:54.08 | an_lbt_abroad | well, I proposed a repository working group a while back.... but I'm sure someone said "that's a core function" about the packaging policy partd |
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| 18:54.54 | Stskeeps | wonders where packaging policy sorts under, at http://meego.com/sites/all/files/MeeGoDevStructureTSG_May5.pdf |
| 18:55.22 | Stskeeps | i guess RE enforcing, QA suggesting? |
| 18:55.31 | Stskeeps | or something |
| 18:57.07 | an_lbt_abroad | QA probably... depends on their scope |
| 18:57.53 | an_lbt_abroad | or DD |
| 18:58.05 | lcuk | bzhb, you might find more luck atm trying in #qt-maemo |
| 18:58.16 | an_lbt_abroad | if they are self-documenting |
| 18:58.38 | an_lbt_abroad | ie if the DD pkg maintainers manage their own policy |
| 18:59.08 | an_lbt_abroad | realises this is the first time he's been on irc as part of his job :) |
| 18:59.19 | bzhb | lcuk: thanks |
| 18:59.42 | Stskeeps | DawnFoster: btw, frozen and published 24 hours before is normally the goal? |
| 19:00.24 | DawnFoster | stskeeps: that's what we've said. Getting it finalized is always more difficult that it sounds :) |
| 19:00.46 | Stskeeps | hehe |
| 19:00.59 | DawnFoster | Imad is probably getting tired of me bugging him :) |
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| 19:08.40 | Stskeeps | and thank you for doing that for all of us :) |
| 19:10.06 | CosmoHill | an_lbt_abroad: lol |
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| 19:19.54 | lcuk | which of the meego UX thingies need to be rotatable? |
| 19:19.58 | lcuk | is it only the phones |
| 19:20.09 | lcuk | or are there other larger devices needing it |
| 19:20.16 | Stskeeps | i could mention a netbook scenario where rotation would be useful |
| 19:20.32 | lcuk | yeah my x41 is a convertable 12" slate |
| 19:20.57 | lcuk | practically netbook before they were fashionable ;) |
| 19:20.59 | arjan | for intel graphics... XRANDR works |
| 19:21.08 | arjan | one of the R's is for "Rotate" :0 |
| 19:21.08 | lcuk | even better running it at 600mhz :D |
| 19:21.20 | lcuk | arjan, that wasnt why i was asking |
| 19:21.39 | lcuk | i know technically it would work |
| 19:21.49 | arjan | oh you mean apps dealing with resizing ? |
| 19:21.57 | lcuk | i was wondering what use cases and stuff were being considered |
| 19:22.03 | lcuk | nahhh thats technical |
| 19:22.13 | lcuk | but will be pushed by the use cases |
| 19:22.22 | arjan | I suspect that the rule of thumb (no pun) is: Anything touch based also rotates |
| 19:22.37 | lcuk | its like maemo and the portrait thing, getting too far in with a project that wont wotate that needs to |
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| 19:23.06 | lcuk | arjan, but it doesnt open the discussion with a blanket :P |
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| 19:23.24 | lcuk | which UXes are going to be touchable? |
| 19:23.35 | arjan | at least handset and slate |
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| 19:23.50 | lcuk | in car? boat? wall? slate? kitchen? bedroom? alarm clock? |
| 19:24.32 | lcuk | different manufacturers of cars will have different screen availability if new cars are like older ones |
| 19:24.33 | Stskeeps | i guess slate is all the stuff that isn't a handset but uses touch exclusively and optionally a keyboad? |
| 19:24.37 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 19:24.39 | lcuk | some will have columns with touch |
| 19:24.43 | lcuk | others will have rows |
| 19:24.43 | Stskeeps | like, those n8x0 thingies everyone forgot about ;) |
| 19:25.05 | lcuk | the things i have 4 of on my desk you mean |
| 19:25.12 | lcuk | that i make notes on everyday |
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| 19:28.17 | Stskeeps | ponders idly about all the intel commercials he seems to be getting on comedy central |
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| 19:29.59 | lcuk | how many practical front ends for a media player would be needed/available? the one you use on your lap may be laid out completely different to the one you have on your photoframe |
| 19:30.27 | Stskeeps | ideally there'd be multiple views and one model? ;) |
| 19:30.35 | lcuk | indeed |
| 19:30.48 | lcuk | but thats down under the netbook ux at the moment |
| 19:30.54 | lcuk | if im reading stuff right |
| 19:31.13 | lcuk | but holding arm up to reach photoframe requires different agility to having it rest ing on knee |
| 19:31.47 | Stskeeps | personally i hope for a huge bunch of meego devices in all shapes and sizes. ideally, hackable too |
| 19:32.13 | lcuk | is it possible for an open project to not allow hacking? |
| 19:32.30 | Stskeeps | sure, just watch security framework :P |
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| 19:33.29 | Stskeeps | i wonder if TPM's are standard issue in atom developer boards though |
| 19:36.21 | lcuk | Stskeeps, so wheres the repo for the security framework stuff? |
| 19:36.28 | lcuk | and is it being woven through qt yet? |
| 19:36.51 | Stskeeps | does it need to be? |
| 19:37.00 | lcuk | would assume so? |
| 19:37.08 | Stskeeps | if done right, no good reason for that |
| 19:37.13 | lcuk | if i need to create an instance of call history or something? |
| 19:37.18 | w00t_ | if it's at the framework level then it's broken by design |
| 19:37.32 | lcuk | "security framework" |
| 19:37.46 | w00t_ | not what I meant and I suspect you know that :p |
| 19:37.56 | lcuk | was grinning as i pasted it |
| 19:38.11 | w00t_ | evil, evil lcuk |
| 19:38.15 | lcuk | ok so its at the app level? |
| 19:38.47 | lcuk | i thought its logical place was inside the qobject constructor |
| 19:38.49 | arjan | Stskeeps: most netbooks don't have tpm... just too much $$ |
| 19:38.53 | lcuk | that way everything can be traced |
| 19:39.06 | lcuk | or rejected as per whatever |
| 19:39.08 | arjan | those things are cost cut all the way |
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| 19:39.30 | lcuk | tpm is on practically everything isnt it? |
| 19:39.34 | arjan | nope |
| 19:39.38 | lcuk | just not activated after the outlash last time |
| 19:39.40 | arjan | it's a separate chip |
| 19:39.50 | arjan | and that means it's an OEM choice to add or not |
| 19:41.19 | lcuk | will it be required for meego |
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| 19:41.55 | arjan | no |
| 19:42.27 | arjan | but you need "somethign" if you want to do a locked down syste |
| 19:42.27 | arjan | m |
| 19:42.27 | arjan | but many folks don't care |
| 19:42.27 | arjan | and don't want to spend the $$ on hardware BOM for it |
| 19:42.41 | Stskeeps | arjan: regarding menlow, the problem with that is graphics right? and not instruction set etc i guess |
| 19:42.48 | lcuk | especially if it prevents them from doing stuff in future |
| 19:42.48 | arjan | correct |
| 19:43.06 | Stskeeps | ah, so it's the powervr fun |
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| 19:45.01 | lcuk | Stskeeps, do you know where the security framework is being developed? |
| 19:45.05 | lcuk | and is it open |
| 19:45.16 | X-Fade | Check gitorious |
| 19:45.20 | Stskeeps | lcuk: physical location or web? ;p |
| 19:45.34 | Stskeeps | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-platform-security |
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| 19:50.41 | lcuk | Stskeeps, so the framework is a hasher, credential checker tool(library?), and apt-get replacement ? |
| 19:50.54 | lcuk | ive added the link to repo on the wiki |
| 19:50.55 | lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_security |
| 19:51.01 | Stskeeps | i don't know anything about their openness |
| 19:52.02 | lcuk | security should be the most open of all because it is what everyone must place trust in? |
| 19:52.47 | ml-something | not if it's security to be used against you :) |
| 19:52.53 | X-Fade | The framework etc should be as open as possible now. |
| 19:53.01 | X-Fade | It is the policies you must fear ;) |
| 19:53.29 | X-Fade | The framework itself looks sane. |
| 19:54.01 | lcuk | then if its sane, it can be used by others. |
| 19:54.22 | X-Fade | Sure, it is supposed to be that way. |
| 19:54.36 | X-Fade | From the early documentation I have read. |
| 19:55.06 | lcuk | yeah ive sat in on 2 presentations now |
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| 19:57.23 | lcuk | anyway, vanishing \o bbl enjoyed convo folks as usual |
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| 20:40.45 | an_lbt_abroad | meego-dev is a moderated list? |
| 20:41.01 | thiago_home | no |
| 20:41.05 | an_lbt_abroad | oh |
| 20:41.10 | an_lbt_abroad | yes it is :) |
| 20:41.27 | an_lbt_abroad | Your mail to 'MeeGo-dev' with the subject... |
| 20:41.51 | an_lbt_abroad | Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.... |
| 20:42.02 | an_lbt_abroad | I posted from my @nokia account |
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| 20:42.19 | an_lbt_abroad | I only subscribe with my @dgreaves account... |
| 20:43.28 | poutsi | moderated is not really the same as only-members-may-post |
| 20:44.24 | an_lbt_abroad | depends if the moderator address is ~ dev/null .... |
| 20:45.08 | poutsi | heh, yes :) thankfully i've no such duties... i don't envy the ones who do |
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| 20:50.59 | slavik | the omap4 dev kit ... can that be used as an actual cellphone? or does it lack the cell connectivity parts? |
| 20:51.14 | thiago_home | does it have a GSM radio? |
| 20:51.26 | thiago_home | oh, right, that's what you were asking |
| 20:51.36 | thiago_home | I doubt that the GSM radio is in... |
| 20:51.39 | slavik | thiago_home: I would think so, but I don't have one :( |
| 20:51.49 | slavik | thiago_home: but that can be bolted on though, right? |
| 20:52.51 | thiago_home | yeah |
| 20:52.59 | thiago_home | I mean, the N900 is an OMAP3 |
| 20:53.01 | thiago_home | so it must be possible |
| 20:53.54 | slavik | at some point in my life, I want to learn ARM assembly (or how to write proper C for arm) |
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| 21:42.01 | slaine | Stskeeps: you about ? |
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| 21:56.29 | trem | nite all, sweet dreams |
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| 23:54.40 | CosmoHill | son of a bitch i knew it |
| 23:55.05 | CosmoHill | my windows laptop which has been asleep for a while just powered itself on and when into hibinate |