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| 10:01.09 | Wikiwide | My mobiles have swallowed a fair bit of sand this weekend. Samsung Soul U900 has gone mute, probably on that account. |
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| 10:09.55 | brolin_empey | Wikiwide: Xorg is the X.Org X server (display server for the X Window System), the successor to XFree86, which is the successor to X386. |
| 10:12.24 | brolin_empey | XFree68 also existed for m68k but I do not know if XFree68 is still maintained or if it is as historical as XFree86 3.x or maybe early XFree86 4.x . |
| 10:15.36 | brolin_empey | Is the Linux kernel still developed for m68k? I thought that Debian dropped its m68k port years ago. |
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| 10:48.55 | Wikiwide | No idea. But I think that Linux mainline kernel is still developed for the Motorola Linux flip phone with T9 keyboard, what was its name?.. |
| 10:52.50 | buZz | A780? |
| 10:53.30 | buZz | i dont see any mainline support for that existing |
| 10:54.08 | buZz | oh its a PXA270 , yeah -that- has mainline support still :) |
| 10:54.14 | buZz | fancy intel ARM |
| 10:55.21 | Wikiwide | I have one of those. Haven't tried putting mailline Linux on it yet. But fancy running Leste on it... |
| 10:55.26 | buZz | last commit 2008 |
| 10:55.27 | buZz | lol |
| 10:55.40 | buZz | yeah i dont think 'still developed' means what you think ;) |
| 10:56.45 | Wikiwide | Software doesn't have to be recently updated to be maintained. Such common updates indicate either plenty of bugs being fished out all the time, or continuous catch-up with fashion. |
| 10:57.01 | buZz | or nobody cares anymore ;) |
| 10:57.11 | buZz | but i run mainline on a PXA270 system all the time |
| 10:57.13 | buZz | it works well |
| 10:57.47 | buZz | 2008 is almost -12- years ago, Wikiwide ;) |
| 10:57.47 | bencoh | that phone is "cute" tbh |
| 10:57.53 | Wikiwide | For example, Intel's CPU's Spectre and such bugs are a cause of updates. |
| 10:58.01 | buZz | no they are not |
| 10:58.32 | buZz | PXA270 isnt affected by that, even though its made by intel originally ;) |
| 10:59.15 | Wikiwide | Yes, so it is :-) "Cute" :-) |
| 10:59.50 | Wikiwide | Yes, that's what I mean: that which doesn't have bugs, doesn't need updates |
| 11:00.44 | Wikiwide | Web browsers need updates because: HTML, SSL, and GUI fashion. |
| 11:04.38 | Wikiwide | And these problems would be solved easier if protocols/SSL part, HTML/PDF/document/viewing/editing part, and GUI/frontend part were separate. |
| 11:04.54 | buZz | PXA270 support isnt A780 support though |
| 11:05.07 | buZz | the A780 specific stuff didnt update since 2008, probably because there's no users |
| 11:05.11 | Wikiwide | Because drivers? |
| 11:05.42 | buZz | the fact that you consider HTML/GUI/SSL stuff makes me feel like you dont know the difference between kernel and userland :) |
| 11:05.52 | Wikiwide | Anyway, should look up how to put modern mainline Linux onto A780 some time. And try it. |
| 11:05.59 | buZz | have at it |
| 11:07.14 | Wikiwide | buZz: I just point to web browsers as the most actively updated software, as the other side of the world from ancient, slowly if at all updated software that just works and doesn't need updates. |
| 11:07.46 | buZz | 'software without bugs is software without users' |
| 11:07.51 | buZz | write that above your monitors |
| 11:08.15 | buZz | -all- software has bugs, and if none reported over 12 years, that means there are zero users |
| 11:08.22 | Wikiwide | Anyway, good night. XPaint or MyPaint are good examples of software that doesn't need updates, much. |
| 11:09.16 | buZz | mypaint was updated 9 days ago |
| 11:09.34 | buZz | and over 100 commits this year |
| 11:09.53 | buZz | over 20 bugs reported in 2019 |
| 11:10.05 | Wikiwide | Huh, was it?.. Haven't seen it in my HAM, but then, did it reach repository yet?.. |
| 11:10.21 | buZz | maybe nobody was active enough to -put it- there |
| 11:10.29 | Wikiwide | /me checks whether it is currently installed |
| 11:10.36 | buZz | 'i didnt see a update' doesnt mean there -was none- |
| 11:11.31 | Wikiwide | Daily updates of source code don't mean as much when it is not in repositories. Apkenv is a well-known example |
| 11:12.07 | buZz | right, these mypaint commits are in repository |
| 11:12.10 | buZz | the official one |
| 11:12.16 | buZz | which is on https://github.com/mypaint/mypaint |
| 11:12.54 | Wikiwide | And how is that repository supposed to be added to HAM? |
| 11:13.05 | buZz | it isnt |
| 11:13.25 | buZz | a package maintainer's responsibility is pushing updated versions from source repo to binaries for users to install |
| 11:13.31 | buZz | if there's no users, then nobody will do that |
| 11:13.54 | dreamer | Wikiwide: ah that's why windows XP is still the best windows, because it doesn't need updates any more? |
| 11:15.00 | Wikiwide | The fact that it does need updates and does have bugs, is why "No updates == not maintained" holds true for Windows. |
| 11:15.58 | Wikiwide | Otherwise, if it had no bugs, it could be maintained without much updates. Just occasional response to feature requests would have sufficed. |
| 11:17.22 | brolin_empey | Microsoft keeps making exceptions to the support status of Windows XP and releasing security patches for Windows XP. |
| 11:17.27 | Wikiwide | Yo, mypaint 0.8.2 in repository has two maintainers: Anders Gud and Aapo Rantalainen |
| 11:18.44 | buZz | mypaint is on 1.2.2 beta already , and a 2.0 alpha has been pushed |
| 11:19.13 | buZz | 0.8.2 is from Jul 29, 2015 |
| 11:19.38 | buZz | brolin_empey: well, probably cause so many ATMs etc still run it |
| 11:19.45 | brolin_empey | s/and releasing/by releasing/ |
| 11:20.13 | sixwheeledbeast | Windows 7 users are being spammed with update to 10 at the moment. Support ends January. |
| 11:22.00 | Wikiwide | 2.0.alpha, wow... So, does MyPaint from GitHub need Maemo Hildon patches to be put into repository? |
| 11:22.14 | buZz | Wikiwide: not if there's no users ;) |
| 11:22.34 | buZz | the 0.8.2 release has > Please use a more recent release if you can! |
| 11:29.55 | dreamer | you think they are updating their computer? |
| 11:35.40 | buZz | of course not |
| 11:35.54 | buZz | there were no updates for his msdos 6.22 so no bugs |
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| 11:41.30 | KotCzarny | you know what's nice about win7? |
| 11:41.43 | KotCzarny | m$ cant force you to update without your consent |
| 11:44.56 | sixwheeledbeast | I know plenty of people that would argue against that. |
| 11:45.35 | sixwheeledbeast | They left there machine on and it updated to 10 they came back mid way through the install. |
| 11:46.05 | sixwheeledbeast | I know of at least 5 machines that did that. |
| 11:50.27 | buZz | sixwheeledbeast: you consented to that |
| 11:50.38 | buZz | when you didnt see the 'disable automatic updates' checkbox :) |
| 12:12.44 | sixwheeledbeast | I didn't do anything, I have been completely Linux for around a decade |
| 12:12.56 | buZz | ;) |
| 12:13.08 | buZz | plural you, then |
| 12:14.34 | sixwheeledbeast | i am just saying that even in Win7 there have been systems that just update. |
| 12:14.52 | buZz | yes, because 'disable automatic updates' is default not enabled |
| 12:15.09 | buZz | its a option during install iirc, and its not very clear |
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| 12:28.08 | sixwheeledbeast | I would argue that you want automatic updates but not automatic upgrades. |
| 12:28.35 | sixwheeledbeast | M$ doesn't seem to understand the difference. |
| 12:35.12 | buZz | i think microsoft doesnt understand a lot of things :) |
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| 15:39.08 | KotCzarny | but if you disabled automatic windows updates, it will stay at win7 indifinitely |
| 15:39.14 | KotCzarny | which isnt true with win10 |
| 15:39.46 | KotCzarny | where that option reverts back to 'we will update whenever we like' after a week or womething |
| 15:40.06 | KotCzarny | i keep win7 machines only for gaming |
| 15:40.13 | KotCzarny | and dual boot to linux for anything else |
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| 16:50.08 | sixwheeledbeast | I think the requirement for gaming is becoming less and less due to steam |
| 16:50.50 | sixwheeledbeast | A lot of Win only titles run fine with proton now. |
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| 22:10.34 | sixwheeledbeast | Voting period for Debian Init Diversity is open. |
| 22:10.49 | sixwheeledbeast | https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 |
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| 23:55.19 | lupine | mashes F |