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| 00:32.22 | Sazpaimon | is there a way to enter the pipe key when vncing into the N900? |
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| 08:52.54 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
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| 10:51.14 | MohammadAG | the Galaxy SII isn't that bad |
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| 10:51.45 | ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/09/09/microsoft_demos_windows_8_in_eight_second_boot/ |
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| 11:07.15 | Sicelo | so much for 24 hours DocScrutinizer, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1084856&postcount=853 |
| 11:07.35 | Sicelo | been occupied here and there |
| 11:07.42 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
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| 11:09.17 | Sicelo | i promised to give feedback about current draw after using N900 hostmode |
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| 11:47.12 | DocScrutinizer | aah |
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| 11:51.51 | kevin_b | hey guys if I build Qt in scratchbox, for the ARM target |
| 11:52.24 | kevin_b | will my binaries be exactly the same like I would have built it directly on device? |
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| 11:53.36 | kevin_b | (not really exactly, i just wanna if differences are and what they would they be) |
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| 12:00.56 | RST38h | Google has built a brand-new programming language for "structured web programming", one that appears to be suited to browser-based apps. |
| 12:01.01 | RST38h | Oh no not again... |
| 12:01.11 | marmoute | RST38h: link ? |
| 12:01.40 | RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/09/google_dart_web_programming_language/ |
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| 12:16.56 | Jaffa | X-Fade: ping (can you remove mp-fremantle-community-pr from Extras-devel, please? MohammadAG oopsed ;-)) |
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| 15:49.14 | RST38h | omg live penguinbait |
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| 15:56.34 | penguinbait | tis true, I am alive |
| 15:59.34 | GeneralAntilles | Everybody run! |
| 16:00.07 | penguinbait | how about a fast shuffle |
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| 16:22.21 | scoobertron | anyone here using the enna media centre on the n900? |
| 16:22.34 | scoobertron | I was wondering if it works as a dlna control point |
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| 16:28.46 | Sazpaimon | scoobertron, if it uses dlna it should work |
| 16:29.02 | scoobertron | so I could use it to control my hifi |
| 16:29.24 | Sazpaimon | Im not sure about that |
| 16:29.32 | Sazpaimon | I know I use a dlna server to stream media TO my N900 |
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| 16:30.49 | scoobertron | I have a dlna server that streams to my tv, hifi and n900, I just want a tool to control it all. |
| 16:31.27 | Sazpaimon | Maybe Rygel can do it |
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| 16:32.26 | Sazpaimon | Zahaan as well |
| 16:32.51 | Sazpaimon | Zahaan may be your best bet |
| 16:33.10 | Sazpaimon | or is it Zhaan, I cant remember how its spelt |
| 16:33.12 | scoobertron | I have been playing with zhaan. So far I have managed to get it to play one song and then crash. |
| 16:33.23 | scoobertron | Which is kind of a success. |
| 16:34.27 | Sazpaimon | Yeah ive never used it before |
| 16:34.35 | Sazpaimon | It would be your best bet though |
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| 17:27.03 | bindi | hmm |
| 17:27.12 | bindi | I wonder if anyone has made picture uploading automagic |
| 17:27.39 | bindi | I would like to scp pics taken after a blessn900 session automatically.. is this at all doable? |
| 17:27.57 | kerio | fcam > blessn900, but sure |
| 17:28.01 | kerio | have rsync in a cron job |
| 17:28.14 | bindi | hmm |
| 17:28.19 | kerio | or get a button to launch it |
| 17:28.58 | bindi | what's so better about fcam over blessn900? |
| 17:29.08 | bindi | I actually think I have fcam since I have CSSU |
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| 17:30.32 | kerio | i always had crappy results from blessn900 \_o_/ |
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| 17:30.46 | kerio | if either of those has a way to specify a script to execute after a photo, you can use that |
| 17:30.55 | kerio | but you probably want to group the uploads together |
| 17:31.03 | kerio | so an extra button linked to rsync is probably better |
| 17:31.19 | bindi | wonder if I can add the button to blessn900 D: |
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| 18:30.49 | DocScrutinizer | 50 virtual invisible karma point for the first one explaining what the command >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop << will cause (beyond the obvious edit of one letter), and why this is or is not a good thing :-D |
| 18:30.57 | DocScrutinizer | the contest starts... |
| 18:30.59 | DocScrutinizer | NOW |
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| 18:31.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer: i dunno, read the man page |
| 18:31.53 | DocScrutinizer | kerio is ut |
| 18:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | out |
| 18:31.59 | kerio | :( |
| 18:33.22 | DocScrutinizer | everybody on the bleachers wonders where's javispedro, the champion and winner of last contest. Will he join in late, will he miss on this contest? |
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| 18:33.41 | RST38h | Hehe |
| 18:34.18 | DocScrutinizer | c'mon guys, there's an amazing 50 virtual invisible karma points waiting for the winner |
| 18:35.02 | DocScrutinizer | (and maybe even a memorial plate in the hall of fame of CSSU!) |
| 18:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, we'd need a review prior to shipping that, so please have a look |
| 18:37.33 | RST38h | Doc: Need I say that sacrifices are supposed to be submitted in human blood? |
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| 18:37.39 | DocScrutinizer | what are the benefits, what are the possible side effects? |
| 18:40.24 | SpeedEvil | I don't see the file |
| 18:40.33 | SpeedEvil | I've got hildon-desktop-wait |
| 18:40.41 | DocScrutinizer | duh |
| 18:41.15 | DocScrutinizer | #!/bin/sh |
| 18:41.17 | DocScrutinizer | export HILDON_DESKTOP_APPS_PRESTART=auto |
| 18:41.18 | DocScrutinizer | # sadly, we have to use dsmetool here, so we cant respawn session.. |
| 18:41.20 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t /usr/bin/hildon-desktop |
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| 18:41.36 | DocScrutinizer | . |
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| 18:42.20 | DocScrutinizer | is what a IroN900:~# cat /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop # gives me |
| 18:42.36 | SpeedEvil | odd |
| 18:42.41 | DocScrutinizer | PR1.3+CSSU16.5 |
| 18:42.58 | SpeedEvil | Oh - nocssu here yet |
| 18:43.02 | SpeedEvil | I need to play with that |
| 18:43.25 | DocScrutinizer | I didn't think CSSU is messing with Xsession config (yet) |
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| 18:44.33 | Sicelo | has same setup as SpeedEvil |
| 18:44.48 | Sicelo | that file doesn't exist on mine too |
| 18:44.53 | DocScrutinizer | see how important it is to get a review? |
| 18:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what'S up with yours? |
| 18:48.21 | DocScrutinizer | grep hildon-desktop -r /etc/X11 |
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| 18:50.07 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, dead battery |
| 18:50.10 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, make that >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/2*hildon-desktop << |
| 18:50.43 | MohammadAG | but afaik hildon-desktop was 17 on mine |
| 18:50.47 | MohammadAG | or was that camera-ui |
| 18:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | dang |
| 18:50.54 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, make that >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/*hildon-desktop << |
| 18:52.15 | Sicelo | lol, it is there, 20hildon-desktop on mine |
| 18:52.27 | DocScrutinizer | same here on t900 |
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| 18:53.02 | DocScrutinizer | so Sicelo SpeedEvil you're in? |
| 18:53.03 | MohammadAG | N900 booted |
| 18:53.13 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 18:53.25 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-09 20:30:49] <DocScrutinizer> 50 virtual invisible karma point for the first one explaining what the command >> sed -e "s/ -t / -f /" -i /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop << will cause (beyond the obvious edit of one letter), and why this is or is not a good thing :-D |
| 18:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | s/21/*/ |
| 18:53.52 | SpeedEvil | I'm not doing anything sensible today. |
| 18:55.19 | SpeedEvil | I'm exhausted after pressure-washing the inside and outiside of a shed, to find that I need to attempt some welding or other fixes on it |
| 18:55.40 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 18:56.04 | DocScrutinizer | welda shed?ing? |
| 18:56.13 | DocScrutinizer | damn touchpad |
| 18:56.23 | DocScrutinizer | welding? a shed? |
| 18:57.18 | Sicelo | is out .. too much of a noob :P |
| 18:57.26 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 18:57.37 | DocScrutinizer | hint: dsmetool --help |
| 18:57.48 | Sicelo | i 'm onthat already |
| 18:58.18 | Sicelo | i'd say it's bad |
| 18:58.20 | Sicelo | :/ |
| 18:58.26 | DocScrutinizer | why? |
| 18:59.43 | Sicelo | in the even that hildon-desktop cant start properly, you seem to have no other means to get control of the device |
| 18:59.48 | MohammadAG | done, time to crash hildon-desktop |
| 18:59.56 | Sicelo | besides taking battery out :/ |
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| 19:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: what do you think was the operation sequence with an unmodified system in that situation? |
| 19:06.12 | DocScrutinizer | I think the alternative to "have to remove battery" is "bootloop, please reflash" |
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| 19:06.47 | DocScrutinizer | unless hildon-desktop would magically "repair itself" during a reboot |
| 19:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: you prefer bootloop to take-out-battery ? |
| 19:07.53 | MohammadAG | hildon-desktop has a rescue.sh |
| 19:07.55 | MohammadAG | idk what it does |
| 19:09.11 | Sicelo | is trying to figure out what the greek means on that file :p |
| 19:09.23 | DocScrutinizer | probably it's meant to reset all widgets, walpapers and whatnot to factory defaults, but it needs to detect there'S something odd to actually do that |
| 19:09.45 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: greek? |
| 19:10.30 | Sicelo | i mean i don't really understand what is happening exactly |
| 19:11.05 | Sicelo | the -t switch says, ... after which do a SW reset, is that a reboot? |
| 19:11.09 | DocScrutinizer | dsmetool starts hildon-desktop, exactly as you already found out |
| 19:11.19 | DocScrutinizer | yes, this is reboot |
| 19:12.07 | DocScrutinizer | cat /proc/bootreason ->> sw-reset |
| 19:13.14 | DocScrutinizer | if hildon-desktop blows chunks on e.g. a terribly messconfigured desktop widget, then you'll see a bootloop |
| 19:15.02 | DocScrutinizer | I once triggered that by doing really nasty and pulling weather-widget from one screen to another, which caused h-d to explode during ransition to new screen and probably messing up the config files for weather-widget. A bootloop ensued which forced me to reflash |
| 19:15.25 | DocScrutinizer | (back when I had no idea about R&D mode) |
| 19:15.34 | Sicelo | 0.0 |
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| 19:16.41 | DocScrutinizer | note that I theoretically could have logged in via ssh and fixed things, if only the sshd was up for more than 2 seconds on N900, per bootloop-cycle |
| 19:18.02 | Sicelo | what is the -17 for? |
| 19:18.35 | DocScrutinizer | so I think even a situatin where you have to remove battery to reboot/shutdown is better than a bootloop. Besides that MohammadAG claims mce and thus powerbutton hard shutdown still works even when h-d segfaulted |
| 19:18.50 | DocScrutinizer | some resource tweaking for OOM |
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| 19:23.23 | MohammadAG | hard? it's the same shutdown as always :) |
| 19:24.16 | Sicelo | will go insane trying to figure this out ;) |
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| 19:43.21 | Sicelo | admits defeat, and hides |
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| 20:30.13 | RST38h | OMG they have buried Steve Jobs |
| 20:30.20 | RST38h | [prematurely, I guess] |
| 20:31.35 | ThreeM | brurned? |
| 20:31.50 | ThreeM | ach buried..... my fault |
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| 20:37.30 | rzr-mob | hi |
| 20:38.00 | RST38h | rzr: Could you tell the name of a person responsible for the 'mg' package in your repository? |
| 20:38.44 | rzr-mob | i guess its me |
| 20:38.46 | rzr-mob | why? |
| 20:39.02 | RST38h | rzr: The name clashes with the name of my package that exists since N810 time |
| 20:39.09 | rzr-mob | is it a rootkit |
| 20:39.16 | rzr-mob | ah i see |
| 20:39.21 | RST38h | rzr: So I have been hoping you will rename the package |
| 20:39.32 | rzr-mob | i wont do that |
| 20:39.41 | rzr-mob | but i can remove it |
| 20:39.51 | RST38h | why remove it when it can be renamed? |
| 20:39.56 | rzr-mob | mg was years ago yours probally |
| 20:40.06 | rzr-mob | wont have time to do that |
| 20:40.08 | RST38h | yes,the original mg is pretty old |
| 20:40.26 | rzr-mob | i can disable it if you want |
| 20:40.28 | RST38h | remove it then,if it is ok with you |
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| 20:40.37 | rzr-mob | is your mg on obs ? |
| 20:40.41 | RST38h | unless of course it is really really really useful |
| 20:40.44 | RST38h | no, it is not |
| 20:41.10 | rzr-mob | i am an emacs fan |
| 20:41.21 | rzr-mob | so i planned to use it |
| 20:41.44 | rzr-mob | but cant u rename yours ? |
| 20:42.57 | rzr-mob | tell me if when it is supported by harmattan |
| 20:43.08 | RST38h | rzr: lots of people know it as 'mg' |
| 20:43.14 | RST38h | rzr: has been around for a while |
| 20:43.31 | RST38h | rzr: why don'tyou simply compile the whole emacs? N950 willpull it just fine |
| 20:44.13 | rzr-mob | depends on gtk |
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| 20:49.19 | jef91 | anyone else had issues with upstart preventing an upgrade recently? |
| 20:49.27 | jef91 | it's got some unresolvable deps it seems |
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| 20:56.31 | rzr-mob | RST38h, i disabled publishing of mg |
| 20:57.19 | rzr-mob | RST38h, if u port it i think about replacing with yours and rename the old one |
| 20:58.16 | RST38h | rzr: There is an emacs package for Fremantle. The easiest thing would be to recompileit forHarmattan, and that would be the real emacs, not the simulation |
| 20:59.07 | rzr-mob | that mg start at speedlight |
| 20:59.16 | rzr-mob | i use it everyday |
| 21:00.44 | rzr-mob | if you hate mg feel free to forkit and rename and push back mg and mg-editor |
| 21:01.02 | rzr-mob | i am in train now on my phone now |
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| 21:03.34 | RST38h | rzr: nah, I neither hate nor like it |
| 21:03.46 | RST38h | rzr: personally, used to pico (or nano) |
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| 21:48.40 | DocScrutinizer | oi javispedro |
| 21:49.00 | javispedro | hi there |
| 21:49.29 | rzr-mob | hi mr radio |
| 21:49.40 | javispedro | ha :) |
| 21:49.43 | javispedro | this reminds me... |
| 21:49.51 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ 16.7 installs |
| 21:50.22 | rzr-mob | what is this release ? |
| 21:50.31 | DocScrutinizer | CSSU |
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| 21:50.47 | rzr-mob | cool |
| 21:51.14 | javispedro | damn, neither Venemo or MAG are here =) |
| 21:51.35 | DocScrutinizer | duh, where's moh? |
| 21:52.22 | javispedro | ponders |
| 21:52.25 | javispedro | should I try fmtx? =) |
| 21:52.46 | DocScrutinizer | hah, why not |
| 21:53.38 | javispedro | requires runtime patching of the kernel ... check. ignroing several warnings about not doing it .. check. issuing potentially destructive commands to hw I don't know anything about ... check. |
| 21:53.51 | javispedro | yeah, let's do it :) |
| 21:54.32 | javispedro | aw no |
| 21:54.42 | javispedro | sadly, the system global orientation lock comes first :( |
| 21:56.01 | DocScrutinizer | hah, seems a global issue - semi-fixed it for CSSU today, for me |
| 21:57.26 | javispedro | from what I'm looking, it might be quite easy actually, despite what I thought earlier |
| 21:57.35 | javispedro | but either way, this is for #harmattan. |
| 21:57.57 | DocScrutinizer | or #maemo-ssu ;-) |
| 21:58.48 | javispedro | heh |
| 21:59.40 | javispedro | tbh it never really bothered in maemo, but on harmattan.... seriously, half of the RSS reader app is locked to portrait, the other half is not locked... a mess. |
| 21:59.47 | javispedro | s/in maemo/in Fremantle |
| 22:00.02 | DocScrutinizer | GAN900: seems there's a topic for next monday's MWKN :-D |
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| 22:02.42 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: /etc/X11/Xsession.post/21hildon-desktop:/usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -f /usr/bin/hildon-desktop |
| 22:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | I thought we're fed up with bootloops for no good reason |
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| 22:03.27 | javispedro | what's wrong with that? |
| 22:03.37 | DocScrutinizer | with THIS one nuttin |
| 22:03.55 | *** join/#maemo MohammadAG (~MohammadA@ipv6.indus.air.ai) |
| 22:04.05 | DocScrutinizer | the one *you* got on your device is /usr/sbin/dsmetool -c 3 -T 180 -m -17 -t /usr/bin/hildon-desktop |
| 22:04.20 | javispedro | boots fremantle |
| 22:04.24 | javispedro | hi MohammadAG |
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| 22:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG is back \o/ |
| 22:04.48 | javispedro | MohammadAG: really appreciate your offer about a MTF radio app =) but still deciding on the app and so. I will probably ship a QtMobility plugin |
| 22:04.58 | javispedro | (also really appreciate Venemo's offer too) |
| 22:05.08 | javispedro | s/on the app/on the API |
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| 22:06.27 | MohammadAG | javispedro, just make a normal Qt lib :) |
| 22:06.33 | MohammadAG | and hi :) |
| 22:06.39 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, /me stabs freenode |
| 22:06.46 | DocScrutinizer | heh |
| 22:06.56 | javispedro | hey, ipv6, don't complain |
| 22:07.01 | DocScrutinizer | they are *very* busy upgrading ircd seven atm |
| 22:07.09 | javispedro | the day I get ipv6 is the day I start my own internet fork |
| 22:07.18 | javispedro | and/or my own ISP =) |
| 22:08.03 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: 16.7 updates fine :-) |
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| 22:08.39 | MohammadAG | yay |
| 22:08.50 | DocScrutinizer | so what do you think, let's call it gold and fork to stable, on next monday? |
| 22:09.21 | MohammadAG | We should fix camera-ui first, then add the cert manager |
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| 22:09.32 | DocScrutinizer | ok, fair enough |
| 22:09.43 | MohammadAG | damn you DigiNora! |
| 22:10.37 | MohammadAG | javispedro, how long do you think you need for that lib? :) |
| 22:10.49 | DocScrutinizer | you know my notion regarding camera-ui. It'd be best we would find a way to kick it out of CSSU completely |
| 22:10.51 | javispedro | i would need an afternoon, but the problem is not me |
| 22:11.19 | javispedro | a Nokian has come and offered to do it the "proper way". Sadly, this means no time estimates. |
| 22:11.40 | MohammadAG | any comments from this nokian on FMTX? |
| 22:11.46 | MohammadAG | cause I kinda miss that :P |
| 22:11.47 | DocScrutinizer | if it wasn't in mp-cssu then this bug was just another app going havoc on user data, so what? |
| 22:12.03 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I'm trying FMTX after I get the global orientation lock thingie done |
| 22:12.17 | javispedro | have some ideas and a bit of help :) |
| 22:12.37 | ShadowJK | what's with fmtx? |
| 22:12.38 | javispedro | (but I wouldn't be optimistic..) |
| 22:12.44 | ShadowJK | has cssu broken it? |
| 22:13.26 | javispedro | sorry, this should have been in #harmattan |
| 22:13.34 | javispedro | messes twice |
| 22:13.49 | DocScrutinizer | FU Nokia, for http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 22:14.09 | DocScrutinizer | re "Nokia offered to do it 'the right way' " |
| 22:14.18 | MohammadAG | Android's security system, or lack thereof > aegis |
| 22:14.19 | Corsac | to do what? |
| 22:15.35 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: the current aegis policy allows me to do the daemon idea without many problems |
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| 22:15.55 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: indeed, and problem with HARM-FMRX isn't the FM but the mere friggin PA config |
| 22:15.59 | javispedro | but, such daemon would mostly be a pulseaudio clone, a sound server. |
| 22:16.20 | javispedro | and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Specially not a sound server. And more specially not if I it is hackish :) |
| 22:16.47 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 22:17.19 | DocScrutinizer | see what PA gives us, I *adore* Lennart!!1!1!! >:-( |
| 22:19.11 | ShadowJK | can you turn off aegis yet? |
| 22:19.15 | DocScrutinizer | given the fact each shit regarding audio is set up using gstreamer anyway, I completely miss the rationale why we (=maemo system / Nokia) MUST use this crap PA |
| 22:19.43 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: we'll never be able to "turn off aegis" |
| 22:19.50 | ShadowJK | :-( |
| 22:20.14 | DocScrutinizer | it's designed to first and foremost forbid all turning-it-off |
| 22:20.26 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: this? again? really? I'm sure I explained to you already why Maemo uses it. ah well.... :P |
| 22:20.36 | ShadowJK | so this means I can't read my email |
| 22:20.40 | ShadowJK | on N9 :P |
| 22:21.08 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: we just added dynamic AC3 passthrough to pulse, its pretty cool, you can move your audio stream between the DSP, bluetooth headset or HDMI output dynamically |
| 22:21.12 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: sorry, I guess I forgot |
| 22:21.27 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: so that reconfiguring outputs dynamically is a good example |
| 22:21.56 | ShadowJK | but it can't move audio from fmrx to speakers/headphones? :) |
| 22:22.20 | Robot101 | I'm sure it can be made to - but its probably aegis that stops you modifying the binary or configuration |
| 22:22.29 | DocScrutinizer | it's probably also the only example we could possibly find. I admit PA might have a small edge there |
| 22:22.40 | Robot101 | am not really here though, I just wanted to correct DocScrutinizer in case anyone got the wrong idea :P |
| 22:23.24 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: for "reconfiguring dynamically" see what aegis done to that on HARM ;-P |
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| 22:23.30 | ShadowJK | Well those "cool things" would be neat tricks, but first you'd want the ability to play back sound working properly first ;D |
| 22:23.56 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: I think we agree about aegis a lot more than pulse... :D |
| 22:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 22:24.49 | ShadowJK | like, imagine installing Satnav on a Lada or something, there's no point becuase the car never goes far enough before breaking down that you couldn't walk back home without map/nav ;P |
| 22:25.16 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 22:26.58 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: given the concept of radically restricting all user access to any system config, using PA on HARM - under aegis - is mere pointless |
| 22:27.06 | javispedro | Robot101: there's an actual limitation in pulse here though, the fact that you can only specify one rate for a card, requiring a daemon reboot to change |
| 22:27.37 | javispedro | well, not really requiring a reboot, but removing/reinserting the module, which is next to a reboot. |
| 22:27.46 | ShadowJK | resampling is kinda expensive on low cpu |
| 22:27.54 | javispedro | however, that is a limitation shared by all sound servers I know. |
| 22:28.23 | DocScrutinizer | the idea of a sound server bewilders me |
| 22:28.23 | ShadowJK | recalls 10-20% on his Pentium3 for the minimum acceptable that doesn't butcher the audio entirely |
| 22:28.30 | javispedro | ShadowJK: I mean change the hw rate, precisely to avoid a resample operation |
| 22:28.43 | javispedro | (or, in the fmrx case, to allow capture in better rates than what are usually used with BT) |
| 22:28.48 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: no, really. pulseaudio does its job - and what it's permitted to do - on harmattan. |
| 22:29.23 | ShadowJK | javispedro, yeah I mean adjusting hwrate is something you'd want on cpu limited platform to avoid costly resampling |
| 22:29.35 | Robot101 | DocScrutinizer: the fact you're prohibited from reconfiguring it is a separate problem. it still implements the audio policy and calls pausing your music and beeps mixing with music and remembering volume, moving cellular audio from serial to the dsp, etc... |
| 22:29.43 | DocScrutinizer | Robot101: the only point is there's not much it's allowed to do |
| 22:29.52 | javispedro | aw, forget it. |
| 22:29.54 | DocScrutinizer | that can't be done without PA as well |
| 22:29.58 | Robot101 | responding to headset insertion and moving streams to/from the audio and the bluetooth headset |
| 22:30.10 | javispedro | as said in the current firmware I can do pretty much whatever I want to it =) |
| 22:30.26 | javispedro | including replacing all audio output with rickrolling |
| 22:30.56 | javispedro | oh, this just gave me an idea for a $2 app in Ovi Store... |
| 22:31.28 | Robot101 | javispedro: so I think this dynamic reconfiguration stuff has been improved in upstream pulse now, as a result of our recent work |
| 22:32.16 | javispedro | ah, upstream is so far here.... |
| 22:32.29 | javispedro | Robot101: wouldn't you know the story behind module-alsa-*-old btw? |
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| 22:33.13 | Robot101 | iirc for maemo 5 they did a lot of tweaks to the audio drivers (using unusual parts of the ALSA API) to support the latency requirements for gsm |
| 22:33.30 | Robot101 | and hacked the alsa drivers in pulse to use that work |
| 22:33.57 | Robot101 | an educated guess here would be, they kept all those hacks and the pulse work they had done, even though pulse's alsa stuff moved on a lot? |
| 22:34.00 | Robot101 | just a guess |
| 22:34.01 | ShadowJK | pulse on desktop seems to misreport latency by 10-900 ms for me, depending on its mood :P |
| 22:34.16 | Robot101 | yeah - alsa drivers usually get this wrong I think |
| 22:34.47 | ShadowJK | it's always spot-on when I use alsa direct |
| 22:34.51 | DocScrutinizer | hah, the story probably more like "PA got tweaks to support the more unusual alsa API parts that are needed only when you deal with realtime" |
| 22:34.55 | ShadowJK | killing pulse first |
| 22:36.12 | javispedro | IMHO, pulse tries to do too much, and as any good unix beard would say, "thus does not anything really well". |
| 22:36.32 | ShadowJK | If it goes much over 1s wrong, I can expect an imminent pulseaudio crash/exit/whatever, which reliable seems to make all programs using pulse go into an infinite cpu loop :D |
| 22:36.38 | javispedro | were it to be separated into sound server, policy enforcement, and "the rest".... it would be at least easier to replace. |
| 22:36.54 | Robot101 | you guys must hate systemd, huh? :) |
| 22:37.21 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, think we'll freeze on version 17 |
| 22:37.28 | javispedro | Robot101: you guess :D |
| 22:38.11 | Robot101 | turns out having fewer moving parts is actually a feature for an embedded device |
| 22:38.17 | Robot101 | do you guys lose sleep over busybox? |
| 22:38.23 | Robot101 | it does many things less well |
| 22:38.26 | Robot101 | entirely intentionally :D |
| 22:38.31 | javispedro | Robot101: ask DocScrutinizer, he calls it "messybox" |
| 22:38.35 | ShadowJK | and then i need to manually kill everything that uses pulse, restart pulseaudio, restart programs... it does this slightly less often than dmix doing weird crashes... But I hope someday someone will start over with a new system and Get It Right(TM) before adding fancy crap :) |
| 22:38.41 | Robot101 | hilarious |
| 22:38.44 | Robot101 | my work here is done :P |
| 22:38.44 | DocScrutinizer | ~messybox |
| 22:38.44 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
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| 22:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: dmix doing weird crashes? recently? Not seen this since errr last century |
| 22:42.05 | javispedro | alsa is horrible. |
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| 22:42.16 | ShadowJK | let's call it hangs |
| 22:42.21 | DocScrutinizer | basically I tend to agree |
| 22:42.44 | DocScrutinizer | but.. know what's even more horrible? PA on ALSA |
| 22:42.45 | MohammadAG | DigiNotar issue fixed in version 16.8 |
| 22:42.53 | ShadowJK | all apps are, when straced, stuck on a futex() syscall waiting for eachother or something, never progressing |
| 22:43.14 | javispedro | and due to weird architecture of alsa that's virtually impossible to debug |
| 22:43.14 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you're an animal |
| 22:43.29 | javispedro | note: alsa _userspace_ |
| 22:43.38 | ShadowJK | yes |
| 22:43.49 | ShadowJK | alsa kernelspace is fine |
| 22:44.08 | ShadowJK | as well as alsa sans plugins/etc |
| 22:44.21 | javispedro | (that was for DocScrutinizer, because PA on ALSA uses mostly ALSA kernelspace ;) ) |
| 22:44.40 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 22:45.12 | Atarii | so with all the battery patches and speed patches on the forums, are any of these "recommended" ? |
| 22:45.23 | DocScrutinizer | NO |
| 22:45.38 | DocScrutinizer | definitely not, modulo swappolube |
| 22:45.54 | Atarii | that was easily answered :) |
| 22:45.57 | Atarii | modulo? |
| 22:46.02 | javispedro | Atarii: most of them contradict each other either way |
| 22:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | which is a proper frontend to tweak some kernel parameters that can use tweaking |
| 22:46.16 | ShadowJK | swappolube has a nice UI for changing settings, questionable/debatable defaults though |
| 22:46.25 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 22:46.35 | javispedro | you can improve one usecase, and at the same time inadvertently "unimprove" the others |
| 22:47.04 | Atarii | hmm |
| 22:47.16 | DocScrutinizer | one thing's for sure: battery patch is a nonsense in the mere wording already |
| 22:47.45 | Atarii | are there any good links to read up what these actually do? what kernel parameters etc |
| 22:49.04 | javispedro | kernel source Documentation/ folder =) |
| 22:49.06 | DocScrutinizer | I think the swappolube theead had a few pages where not only nonsense been written |
| 22:49.43 | Atarii | ok thanks |
| 22:51.02 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, usually if you're after battery and speed patches, your problem is caused by sth that should get tackled another way than with magic patches |
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| 22:52.19 | DocScrutinizer | frequently battery standby time get crushed by stupid aps that keep CPU busy, and speed sees massive impact mainly when too many apps eat way too much RAM so the system enters swap hell |
| 22:53.16 | Atarii | well I don't need to worry about that, I don't have any of those status applets etc |
| 22:53.27 | DocScrutinizer | installing and using a fresh clean fremantle often helps to adjust your POV about those issues |
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| 22:54.08 | Atarii | I just want something to put my device into a "sleep" mode when not in use, using as little battery as possible. And a way to kill all cell phone related processes |
| 22:54.20 | DocScrutinizer | the culprit is not the missing speed / battery patch but rather the app that - when inmstalled - makes problems appear |
| 22:54.55 | Atarii | I think the bleeding-edge wifi drivers is the reason my battery gets eaten so fast |
| 22:54.59 | DocScrutinizer | kill all cellphone related processes is easy: flight mode |
| 22:55.25 | DocScrutinizer | sleep mode is entered automatically as soon as no active processes hog the system |
| 22:55.38 | Atarii | doesn't flight mode kill wifi too? |
| 22:55.44 | DocScrutinizer | (wlan drivers) quite possible |
| 22:55.48 | SpeedEvil | I get over 5 days in wifi active but idle mode |
| 22:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | there's a tablet-mode |
| 22:56.10 | Atarii | yes, I've been using tablet-mode, guess I'll stick to that |
| 22:56.19 | SpeedEvil | And probabyl closer to 10, if everything is turned off, and it's idle in tablet mode |
| 22:56.31 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 22:56.39 | Atarii | that's amazing SpeedEvil, I wish I was getting that |
| 22:56.50 | Atarii | do you use the bleeding edge wifi drivers, or just stock? |
| 22:56.54 | SpeedEvil | stock |
| 22:56.57 | Atarii | ah |
| 22:56.58 | DocScrutinizer | wlan is known to eat batery like mad when it's constantly searching for APs |
| 22:57.15 | Atarii | yea I have that disabled too |
| 22:57.35 | DocScrutinizer | the driver might spoil this |
| 22:57.52 | Atarii | I guess it's the bleeding edge drivers, I'll have to reduce their usage |
| 22:58.03 | Sicelo | tablet-mode = disabling only cellmo? |
| 22:58.10 | DocScrutinizer | iirc icd2 actually unloads the wkan driver to power down wifi |
| 22:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: yes |
| 22:58.46 | Sicelo | thanks. |
| 22:58.51 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 22:59.00 | DocScrutinizer | waves |
| 22:59.07 | DocScrutinizer | afk |
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| 23:33.23 | javispedro | hmpf |
| 23:33.49 | javispedro | oops, forget, should talk in #harmattan |
