IRC log for #maemo on 20110205

00:00.21toresbegood enough for me
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00:06.02wazddamn, android on n900 is totally sick :)
00:06.15wazdWi-Fi is not working though :(
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05:59.51*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | Source: http://mxr.maemo.org/ http://maemo.gitorious.org/ http://meego.gitorious.org/ | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Epic OC fatality: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68795
06:02.46SazpaimonKen-Young, except Openmoko cases are ugly
06:03.19Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Hey - the whole thing's gonna be ugly.   But it's extremely cool.
06:03.44Ken-Youngacellermonet, compass, gyroscope, altimeter...
06:03.47SazpaimonI would rather see someone make a beagle board that fits in a more contemporary case
06:03.54Sazpaimonyou know, like the N900
06:04.09*** join/#maemo psycho_oreos (~no@115.131.2.11)
06:04.36Ken-YoungSazpaimon, If you care how it looks, you're not the target audience.
06:04.47Sazpaimonindeed
06:06.41Ken-YoungTry finding another phone with expansion cables for peripherals and data collection.
06:06.49Ken-YoungAnd JTAG
06:08.15Ken-YoungTry finding another phone that you can order today, even though the manufacturer hasn't figured out how much RAM it will end up having.
06:13.28johnxheh. well it wasn't a phone, but the pandora was like that :)
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06:19.34DocScrutinizertell you what - it's a brilliant plan to get their gta02 out of the shelf, those otherwise would collect dust forever. And hey, a 5$ ugly plastic case plus 60$ display for just 260$, that's a real bargain
06:20.30Ken-YoungI wonder how many they still have on the shelf.
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06:21.00DocScrutinizerGoldelico prolly a dozen or two - "we" some thousands
06:22.31Ken-YoungWell, I still use my Freerunner - it's a very nice GPS unit, IMHO.
06:22.31johnxActually though, I'm not sure the lack of knowing the RAM size is that huge an issue. AFAIU, on the OMAP3 different pin-compatible packages with different amounts of memory are available, so it's not something that need major rework to change the memory size (hope I'm not too far off ...)
06:23.38Ken-Youngjohnx, Well, I plan on buying one if they ever really go on sale.
06:23.56jacekowskiyou would have to change xloader
06:24.01jacekowskinolo xloader
06:24.06jacekowskisigned part
06:24.10Ken-YoungI've got two gta02s and a gta01, so I might as well convert one.
06:24.21johnxjacekowski, errr, but this isn't for the N900 ...
06:24.41jacekowskias it's xloader that's setting up memory maps and stuff
06:24.53jacekowskiahhh
06:25.35Ken-Youngjacekowski, Sorry, I'm off-topic.
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06:30.22DocScrutinizerKen-Young: when I cnnect all my gta02 to a beowulf they are way faster than gta04 :-P
06:30.52Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, How many of them do you have, personally?
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06:31.20DocScrutinizerlast time I ztied to count them, It's been sth ~one dozen
06:31.36DocScrutinizers/zt/tr/
06:32.48Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, I'm jealous - do you still use any of them?
06:32.48DocScrutinizerdepends which pile of junk and wreck you count in or not :-P
06:33.07DocScrutinizerraaaaarely
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06:34.44Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Has anyone looked into trying to make an extremely secure software stack for the Freerunner - something with full volume encryption?
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06:35.04DocScrutinizersome 2 or 3 are even 850/1800/1900 - quite useless here
06:35.28DocScrutinizerdunno
06:35.51Ken-YoungMight be a viable niche product.
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06:38.22DocScrutinizerI fail to see the usecase and target user group
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06:40.04Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Our marvelous department of Homeland Security has begun confiscating cell phone at the border.
06:40.15DocScrutinizerI guess the main usage will be for some openBB hackers for a long time still
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06:40.57johnxKen-Young, and they'll tell you to hand over the keys or stand in contempt of court
06:41.49DocScrutinizerlol, those print-out-the-internet fools
06:41.50Ken-Youngjohnx, It's not clear - the courts have not ruled uniformly about whether or not you can be forced to reveal keys.
06:42.31johnxTell me how it works out for you then :)
06:43.10Ken-Youngjohnx, And in any event,, a truly secure phone would allow you to have a separate hidden volume.
06:43.22DocScrutinizernobody can force you to reveal keys, as nobody can prove existence of data in a well done crypted virtual volume or stegano-file
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06:47.04DocScrutinizerlast time I checked, the cryptvolume solutions for linux did rather smart things like deleting with random bitnoise, and encoding both startpoint into volume and cypher key with the passphrase, so you can have arbitrary number of independent "volumes" in one physical volume, and nobody can tell if there's any data at all in it
06:47.59johnxI assume it also has a way for you to prove the key for a 'clean' volume which may appear to be the entire volume?
06:48.12DocScrutinizernow embed this file into a (number of) .bmp file(s) and here you are
06:48.23Ken-Youngjohnx, Yes, you can do that.
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06:48.38DocScrutinizerjohnx: that's the idea
06:50.13DocScrutinizerbut then they will torture or jail you until you give out the 2nd, 3rd, and 42nd passphrase, so it's better to hide the data completely, inside e.g .bmp
06:50.28DocScrutinizersee steganography
06:50.55johnxhilariously, if you give out the keys for the data in the .bmp files as well, they may hold and torture you for keys you don't have :)
06:51.07johnxdouble edged sword ;)
06:51.20johnxprotip: don't get detained
06:51.26DocScrutinizerthat's the meaning in my first statement about 42nd passphrase
06:51.42johnxah, parsed that as 4th :)
06:53.02DocScrutinizerbut the idiots they obviously are, they never will be able to even think about a set of family snapshots stored as .bmp or .png actually holds hidden info
06:53.28johnxunless there's an episode of CSI like that ;)
06:53.52DocScrutinizerjust don't publish the original unstegano'ed pictures on your facebook site :-P
06:54.12DocScrutinizerotherwise they could cmp and find "oops they differ"
06:54.26Ken-YoungI take a lot of pictures of dirty white walls...
06:55.01johnxKen-Young, How fascinating. I take pictures of analog static on televisions :)
06:56.39DocScrutinizerNB a well embedded stegano info isn't detectable, but also is at least a bloat up of file size by factor 10, compared to netto hidden info
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06:59.48DocScrutinizerwell, you could get away with factor 4 even. like using the lower bits of 5/6/5 in a 8/8/8 bmp format
06:59.57RST38hjohnx: you are not taking videos of that static?
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07:00.37RST38hDoc: Sorry, but if it blows up the file size by x10, how is it undetectable?
07:00.39johnxRST38h, just to mess with services that have to transcode video :)
07:00.47RST38hevil =)
07:01.27DocScrutinizerRST38h: the idea is to replace least significant bits of a real bmp with the split secret data
07:01.54DocScrutinizerso you're adding some rather unspectacular noise to an arbitrary picture
07:02.41RobbieThe1stWhich is perfectly believable, these days
07:02.47DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography
07:03.35RobbieThe1stY'know, one thing you could easily do - take your data, compress/encrypt it, and name it to a .dll or .so. Most people wouldn't give it a second thought
07:03.42RobbieThe1stProvided it's in the right folder
07:04.16johnxC:\My Documents\Bomb plans.dll
07:04.48RST38hDoc: Yes but if it is 10 times bigger than normal then somethign is wrong, isn't it?
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07:07.27RST38h"Firefox 4.0 Beta 4 has been released for Android and Maemo - you can download it from this page. This release is the fastest performing Firefox 4 Beta for mobile yet. You will notice faster start-up, page load times and responsiveness to panning and zooming."
07:07.38RST38hWhy don't I see any of these improvements?
07:07.59johnxbecause 5% faster than slow is still slow
07:08.10TermanaNationStates... do I give more spending money to the Department of Defence or give in to the protesters outside my Parliament House that wish to "Disarm now!"?
07:08.17RST38hIt actually feels slower than before
07:08.22derfBecause of the checkered backround for areas that aren't rendered yet.
07:08.45RST38hTermana: I suggest you just buy more bear.
07:08.54RST38hs/bear/beer mhm
07:09.05TermanaRST38h, no no, I think you were right
07:09.14TermanaMore bear, would protect the nation just fine
07:09.20RST38hderf: It takes 40+ seconds just to start up
07:09.20johnxmore bears are the answer to national self defense
07:09.43RST38hderf: and hangs for up to 5 seconds at a time when scrolling, checkered background or not
07:10.08derfI certainly don't remember that the last time I used a recentl build on an N900.
07:10.12derf*recent
07:10.27derfIt takes like 3 or 4 second to start on Android.
07:10.34johnxto be fair, microb gets to run in the background all the time
07:10.36derf*seconds
07:10.46RST38hjohnx: Yea, but 40 seconds?
07:11.02RST38hjohnx: And you pretty much cannot scroll in Firefox, with these hangups
07:11.13johnxam playing with it now
07:11.25RST38hTakes 40+ seconds to load and render a web page too
07:11.25johnxwith just mediaplaye rrunning it seems to take about 10-20s to start
07:11.31DocScrutinizerRST38h: (if it is 10 times bigger than normal) you don't get it. The covertext is of course same size it's always been. It just holds hidden info (around 1..20%) in least significant bits, or other uninteresting parts so the original picture, music, whatever covertext LOOKS unaltered
07:11.40RST38hI have Messages, Phone, and XTerm running
07:12.12RST38hDoc: Ah ok
07:12.45RST38hDoc: So, x10 thing was in relation to the efficiency? I.e. you need Nx10 image to store text of size S?
07:12.53DocScrutinizeryep
07:13.10RST38hMaybe we should all switch to Android or something...
07:14.00johnxRST38h, you first
07:14.14Termana:p
07:14.32johnxI'd switch to webos before android, honestly
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07:15.38RST38hjohnx: How about the latest crackberry devices? =)
07:16.04johnxugh. I'd easily switch to N800+dumbphone first
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07:16.54johnxor zaurus with console-only PIM+motorola startac (sp?)
07:17.23RST38h"...Furthermore, if papal organs were donated, they would become relics in other bodies if he were eventually made a saint."
07:17.48RST38hjohnx: hell, where would you finda functioning zaurus?
07:17.58johnxtwo on my desk :P
07:18.10TermanaRST38h, ebay
07:18.53johnxI almost wish I picked up an extra last time I saw some in a store ...
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07:19.16RST38hjohnx: the one I have seen was pretty beaten =)
07:19.34johnxmine are too :) Only real problems are battery related
07:19.43johnxand lack of recent kernel in the case of the SL-5500
07:20.06TermanaWhat do you guys think of the OQO? Besides it's bulkyness obviously
07:20.22RST38hIt is a PC.
07:20.26TermanaI could see myself picking up one of those... and RUNNING MINIX
07:20.28Termana:O
07:20.31Termana:p
07:20.35johnxDidn't they go bankrupt?
07:20.50Termanajohnx, sure, but you can still find some around, especially on ebay
07:21.07johnxRST38h, If I wanted another one, I'd just stop by here; http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167911/
07:21.12TermanaOr, 11 on ebay at the moment to be precise
07:22.10RST38hjohnx: Instant gadget orgasm.
07:22.21johnxThat was an awesome shop :)
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07:32.42DocScrutinizerakihabara at night is so weird
07:33.06DocScrutinizerno cars, and gibberish signs painted on the road
07:33.28johnxAh, on sunday they used to close the street
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07:34.32johnxand yeah, I never did end up driving there ... so I still have no clue WTF some of the road signs mean
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07:40.12johnxsleeps
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08:29.53DocScrutinizerMOO
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08:31.44wazd__DocScrutinizer: heya
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08:53.21n900-spacehey all
08:53.22n900-space\o/
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08:57.04n900-spacecan anyone tell me if there is a way to flash n900 even if the "keep pressing u key while connecting the usb cable to the n900 and the computer" doesnt work?
08:57.46n900-spaceif "u" key doesnt not result in the small usb icon on the top right
09:00.22wazdn900-space: you should press and hold :)
09:00.36wazduntill it appears
09:00.41n900-spaceyes but its not working :(
09:00.51n900-spaceit never does, not for the last 3 days !!
09:00.52wazdhmm, let me check
09:01.25n900-spaceit gives steady yellow light, a dim nokia screen shows up and nothing, it restarts after few seconds
09:01.35n900-spaceI wanna know onw thing
09:02.17n900-spacethe flasher document shows a "--usb-device" option, it says "Specify USB device to use (bus:device address)"
09:02.18n900-spacebrb
09:03.39wazdso, you are holding "u" and plugging n900 in?
09:04.07wazdcause that definitely works for me :)
09:04.30n900-spaceback
09:04.42n900-spaceyea i know
09:04.45n900-spaceit has always worked
09:04.47n900-spacebut not now
09:04.47n900-spaceits messed up
09:04.59n900-spacei installed meego and things got messed up
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09:05.07wazdaah
09:05.10n900-spacenow half the things of maemo r flashed and half are not :$
09:05.26n900-spaceand i'm sure its not the battery drain problem as well
09:05.35wazdsorry, then you need smarter guy than me :(
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09:06.23n900-spacecuz when the device is off, and i press and hold power button, the bright white light comes up after which the whitescreen with nokia logo comes up
09:06.31n900-spaceseems like everyone is away
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09:08.53n900-spacesigh
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09:20.16Sicelon900-space: can you please try to search the irc logs... your problem has been discussed before
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09:21.03Sicelo(just a pity that i don't really remember how it was solved, but all I remember is that it is possible to flash without the U key)
09:21.22n900-spaceok cool Sicelo , i will search
09:24.14Siceloand if your device is really bricked, you may want to search for NOLO as well in the logs
09:24.47Siceloyou will probably also find Jebba's work useful, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Debrick_without_reflashing.21
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09:44.28DocScrutinizermeh, drive-by askers
09:44.43DocScrutinizer~flatbatrecover
09:44.44infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover
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09:46.29DocScrutinizernever try flashing if your battery isn't COMPLETELY charged. If battery gets too low to convince NOLO entering flashing mode (USB icon on holding 'u'), and your system (as in OS, maemo) is not correctly working to charge up the battery, you're cought in a deadlock
09:48.58DocScrutinizeronly (end user) solution: get a freshly charged battery, by whatever means. Thi smight involve buying an external charger, buying a new battery, or charging the battery in a compatible Nokia phone (see http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility)
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10:01.28DocScrutinizernota bene ~flatbatrecover DOES NOT work when device doesn't correctly boot up into maemo!
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10:13.07alteregoUrgh, my brain
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10:13.25RST38halterego: more drugs?
10:13.35alteregoOr non compatible phone DocScrutinizer
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10:13.43alteregoI charged it in an N810
10:13.59alteregoRST38h: yeah, alcohol.
10:14.42DocScrutinizeralterego: might work, when you're not too lefthanded
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10:16.45DocScrutinizeralterego: users running into flat bat deadlock probably aren't hardcore maemo addicts though, so it's not likely they got a "non-compatible" device that actually could be used to charge the BL-5J
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10:18.28DocScrutinizeranyway, for completeness' sake: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-4l/compatibility
10:19.00pupnikthose are the good phones
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10:19.10pupnikdoes nokia have a more powerful battery?
10:19.14alteregowonders if his download rate is being killed by IO speed.
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10:20.18DocScrutinizerpupnik: to replace bl-5j? nope
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10:21.41DocScrutinizerwhatever, seems neither n900-space nor Sicelo (for blaming him for broken link) are here, so never mind
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10:22.22VenemoMohammadAG: ping
10:23.14DocScrutinizerwhen one of them re-joins, you might want to point them to http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-05.log.html#t2011-02-05T11:44:28
10:24.15DocScrutinizermoo lardman|gone
10:24.42DocScrutinizero/ Venemo
10:25.03Venemohi DocScrutinizer :)
10:25.19RST38hmoo wazd
10:25.23RST38h(in case you are alive)
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10:28.18keriopupnik: buy a MUGEN battery
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10:29.22pupniki bought a 3g card for my thinkpad tablet
10:29.30pupniknow i need power :)
10:30.42DocScrutinizerMOAA POWAAA
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10:31.51mc_teohey
10:32.03mc_teoim getting a SIM error
10:32.19mc_teocan someone have a look at my dmesg output?
10:32.25DocScrutinizererr, is this a sequel?
10:33.53mc_teoa sequel as in happened before?
10:33.56mc_teothen no
10:33.57mc_teohttp://paste.villavu.com/show/391
10:34.02mc_teois the dmesg log
10:34.03pupnikDocScrutinizer: how come i don't see more people with modified battery packs for their laptops?  from what i've read, you can hook up cells (same type) in parallel
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10:35.14DocScrutinizerpupnik: you actually can. Make sure they are all charged to same level (I.E. full) prior to doing so
10:35.27lardmanpupnik: heavy
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10:35.33Venemoachipa: ping
10:35.37lardmanand there are plugs everywhere these days
10:35.44lardmansockets even
10:35.47DocScrutinizerand steampunk
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10:36.04Venemoachipa: why are the links broken on http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Maemo/Documentation/ ?
10:36.14lardmansteampunk everywhere? :)
10:36.23Venemoachipa: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=936668#post936668
10:36.54pupniki wonder if you could build a portable laptop battery charger that was placed under the feet (desk, coffeetable) and pumped/driven by user
10:36.56DocScrutinizermc_teo: sequel as in http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-03.log.html#t2011-02-03T14:30:30
10:37.37pupnikhowever generating even 10w power with legs is noticeable work
10:38.39lardmanI read an article about piezo fabrics in New Scientist a while back iirc
10:39.16DocScrutinizerpupnik: SpeedEvil is planning a similar dynamo device
10:39.30mc_teoDocScrutinizer: well i get like a big error, saying like all emergency calls are disabled, etc and a reboot might fix it
10:39.39mc_teo10 reboots later, no joy
10:39.55DocScrutinizerumm, lemme check the pastie
10:41.34DocScrutinizernothing in dmesg
10:42.14DocScrutinizertry removing your SIM and see if then emergency calls are enabled
10:43.14mc_teorighto, brb
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10:55.25mc_teoDocScrutinizer: just tried that
10:55.34mc_teosame error, even with SIM card out
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10:55.47mc_teotakes unusually long time to reboot too
10:55.50DocScrutinizerreflash cmt
10:56.04lcukx200damn autobuilder
10:56.37DocScrutinizeri.e reflash :-D
10:56.50mc_teoemmc too?
10:56.54DocScrutinizernah
10:57.08mc_teoand to pr1.3?
10:57.37DocScrutinizeryep, international version. US version is notorious to create issues with cmt
10:58.11mc_teoi am from ireland
10:58.13mc_teoi got it here
10:58.22DocScrutinizerhm, ok then :-D
10:58.27mc_teoso it could be uk version?
10:58.39DocScrutinizerI'd use global version
10:59.04alteregoI'm in the UK and I always use global version ..
10:59.06mc_teoand should i like back up all my stuff, like applications, etc, or would this replicate the error
10:59.24DocScrutinizernobody ever found a difference not to mention a reason for UK / US / foo version
10:59.26alteregoYou should always back stuff up.
10:59.45alteregoIs there even a UK pr1.3?
10:59.56alteregoI thought they stopped the UK variant ..
11:00.03mc_teoi think so
11:00.10DocScrutinizermc_teo: you should backup and restore, but test prior to restore
11:00.18mc_teoi read something on it earlier
11:00.23lcukx200alterego, \o
11:00.24mc_teookay
11:00.44lcukx200waits for autobuilder to know whether it worked
11:00.49mc_teowould my /home/user/* be safe?
11:00.52alteregoHey lcukx200 :)
11:00.58Venemomc_teo: make a backup
11:01.03mc_teoor should i move that to MyDocs?
11:01.14lcukx200if a build on autobuilder FAILS
11:01.15mc_teoits a lot of stuff
11:01.19lcukx200can I up a new version with same number?
11:01.24lcukx200I kinda like the one I am using
11:01.51alteregolcukx200: I'd increment a packaging version number like: 1.0.0-1
11:01.52ShadowJK/home/user isn't safe
11:02.01alteregoThe 1.0.0-2
11:02.07lcukx200alterego, I always bump package version
11:02.07Venemolcukx200: you can upload a fix with the same version, yes
11:02.09lcukx200I am just seeing
11:02.12lcukx200awesome
11:02.23Venemolcukx200: but if it succeeded, then you must increment the version number
11:02.24lcukx200./mpackage
11:02.29lcukx200yes of course
11:02.32lcukx200published etc
11:02.33alteregoNothing is ever safe :)
11:03.33DocScrutinizermc_teo: it's not explicitly erased on flashing rootfs, but it's not 'safe' as in 'safe backup storage'
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11:05.07DocScrutinizermc_teo: creating a copy of complete /home/user (minus the MyDocs fs of course) is a good idea anyway
11:06.46DocScrutinizermc_teo: if you want to do even more, you can use backupmenu "app" to create a full logical image of / and /home
11:07.03alteregoAlways good to make regular backups, you never know what may happen.
11:07.35alteregoFlashing is one good reason, but so is using your phone, you may drop it in a puddle tomorrow etc ..
11:07.46DocScrutinizerheh, I got a cron job on my PC, to rsync
11:08.08alterego(I hear of this all the time, people completely breaking their phones then bitching when Nokia Care wont retrieve their data.)
11:08.25alteregoDocScrutinizer: lazy :P
11:08.29SpeedEvilpupnik: Planning a similar device may be a bit strong.
11:08.30DocScrutinizersure
11:08.32DocScrutinizer:-P
11:08.41SpeedEvilpupnik: I assume you're aware of car foot-pumps?
11:08.57lcukx200now I have not tested this
11:09.24lcukx200but if I push 2 interdependent packages to autobuilder without waiting for building will they both work
11:09.29pupniknope SpeedEvil
11:09.31lcukx200(assuming code has no bugs)
11:09.35pupnikwhat are those for
11:09.48SpeedEvilpupnik: Say 40Kg*10cm = 40J. Once every second - going some - is 40W. Optimistically, you might get 30W out
11:09.53DocScrutinizerfor inflatng tires
11:09.57pupnikohhh ok
11:10.12SpeedEvilhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-25996-Double-Cylinder-Foot-Pump/dp/B0001K9RFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296904200&sr=8-1
11:10.24pupnikyeah but sitting at a desk means only a couple kg on each foot
11:10.29SpeedEvilpupnik: Indeed
11:10.33pupnikmaybe the pump could be placed under the butt of the user :)
11:10.45pupniklol
11:10.55SpeedEvilpupnik: Basically - 40W - sustained in any manner - is moderately hard work.
11:11.11SpeedEvilpupnik: It has to involve large movements of big muscles.
11:11.11DocScrutinizeryou bet
11:11.13pupniki got my lappy down to about 10watts
11:11.19pupnikand that still seems a bit much
11:11.39pupnikbut sometimes i 'sewing machine' my legs (bouncing them up and down)
11:11.47pupnikseems like usable energy
11:11.52SpeedEvilpupnik: that's not quite what it seems.
11:11.59pupnikthat's resonant yes
11:12.02SpeedEvilpupnik: notice that when you're doing that, it's ...
11:12.03SpeedEvilyeah
11:12.14SpeedEvilso the power you might expect is divided by Q
11:12.18pupnikty
11:12.25pupniki didn't think
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11:12.50SpeedEvilThe 'least bad' highish power output you can do is on a cycle.
11:13.06RobbieThe1stHm... Anyone know stuff about RTMPdumping and grabbing flash video streams?
11:13.08SpeedEvilBut that's pretty much required to be quite large.
11:13.13SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: som
11:13.13SpeedEvile
11:13.42pupnikSpeedEvil: how about a flat device with two coasting pads for your feet, and you push them back and forth on the floor?
11:13.56SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: I use get_iplayer to grab BBC streams, and also rtmpproxy to grab flash streams when played by the browser.
11:13.57pupnikforward and backward, alternating
11:14.18SpeedEvilpupnik: Not impossible, again. It's not going to be easy.
11:14.36SpeedEvilpupnik: mechanically annoying too, as you pretty much need the base to be as large as the slide
11:14.39pupniki kind of like that one
11:14.46pupnikyes
11:14.47RobbieThe1stAlright. I saw this little video on Wired, and decided to download it: http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/brazilfootage
11:14.49DocScrutinizerlet's face it: 1 or 2W are easy, 10 and up real hard work
11:14.59SpeedEvilI was hoping to make a footpump class device that folded up pretty much into a n900 shape and size.
11:15.02SpeedEvil(though not weight)
11:15.15SpeedEvilAnd that was able to charge a n900 in 100 steps or so.
11:15.22RobbieThe1stIt's apparently using 'jwplayer', and has a config file of http://assets.uncontactedtribes.org/films/356/config.xml which links to http://assets.uncontactedtribes.org/films/356/streams.rss
11:15.49SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: I never worked out how to do this.
11:16.03SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: It seemed too hard, and rtmpproxy just worked
11:16.07RobbieThe1stHm...
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11:16.29SpeedEvilErr
11:16.33SpeedEvilI mean rtmpsuck
11:16.38SpeedEvilWith the iptables wrapper
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11:22.02RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: Hm, how do you use rtmpsuck again?
11:22.09RobbieThe1stI've got it, but I can't find any instructions
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11:22.27SpeedEviliptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 1935 -m owner \! --uid-owner proxy \
11:22.27SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
11:22.27SpeedEvil./rtmpsuck --debug
11:22.53RobbieThe1stJust run that as a command?
11:22.56SpeedEvilWith rtmpsuck setuid to 'proxy'
11:23.13SpeedEvilyou probably don't actually need the --debug
11:23.20lcukx200paces
11:24.31SpeedEvilIt's documented in the README in the rtmpdump source
11:24.48lcukx200hrm
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11:25.55lcukx200at the bottom of the build log from autobuilder
11:26.02lcukx200for diablo, it had:
11:26.03lcukx200[2011-02-05 13:20:57] liqbook 0.1.0 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository
11:26.11lcukx200but that line is missing from the fremantle one :S
11:26.22lcukx200https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbook_0.1.0/summary.log
11:26.28lcukx200https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/liqbook_0.1.0/summary.log
11:26.43Venemocould someone tell me the output of 'dpkg -l | grep libqt4' on an N810?
11:27.12SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: you possibly won't also have the right iptables modules fot that to work
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11:30.30pupnikknow of any stealth cameras that fit in a power socket?  http://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/30210-strom_steckdose.jpg
11:30.38RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: It actually -did- work. I'm absolutely amazed
11:31.03mc_teo~flashing
11:31.03infobotrumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
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11:31.57lardmanhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68714 someone doing what I was talking about yesterday
11:32.30lardmanusing OpenGL on-device for doing processing rather than graphics stuff
11:32.31pupnikvery neat, lardman
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11:34.27lardmanthough having an OpenCL impl would be better
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11:34.45SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: Great!
11:35.13SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: It would be awesome if it could also spit out what it understood of the negotiation, so you could point rtmpdump to it seperately
11:35.42SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: I want to do a rtmpproxy that transcodes to a lower bandwidth - but I don't have the energy.
11:36.27RobbieThe1stWhy'd you want -lower- bandwidth?
11:36.38RobbieThe1stI mean, most internet streams are low enough already :\
11:36.55SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: My connection sometimes goes down to 160K.
11:37.24SpeedEvilAt these times, I would like at least audio of some video streams, with maybe a bit of picture, even if I can't get good video.
11:37.29RobbieThe1stSo you'd run the proxy on a remotely hosted machine?
11:37.45SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: yes.
11:37.49RobbieThe1stThat does make sense
11:38.29SpeedEvilAlso good for mobile use of course. In many cases you don't actually need even 240p video, if you're watching video on the train.
11:39.27mc_teoDocScrutinizer: i have nitdroid installed with multiboot, i presume this will erase it too?
11:43.30Venemowhat is the good practice for packaging something both for fremantle and
11:43.34Venemowhat is the good practice for packaging something both for fremantle and diablo?
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11:49.07RST38hJaaksi posted the first message from HP at his blog
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11:56.38mc_teojust finished flashing
11:56.55mc_teostill taking a while to boot, therefore i am not too optimistic
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11:57.50VenemoRST38h: it is the second one actually
11:58.18MohammadAGwho has a USB 3G modem here?
11:58.44mc_teome
11:58.50SpeedEvilMe
11:59.05mc_teoi have it connected to a wireless router, though
11:59.32alteregoMohammadAG: does two N900s count?
11:59.42MohammadAGlol
12:00.25MohammadAGI tried the sim of one in the N900 and it connects to the internet without problems
12:00.37MohammadAGso why do people want h-e-n drivers for them?
12:01.04mc_teoive never had a problem
12:01.21mc_teoif dont want to use laptop with 3g modem
12:01.29mc_teoi just swap sims, and it works grand
12:01.33SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Some providers lock the SIM.
12:01.40MohammadAGbut why use a 3G modem on the N900?
12:01.48MohammadAGah
12:01.58SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Also, you can't recieve calls on the n900 if you do that.
12:02.12mc_teoDocScrutinizer: well my SIM works after rebooting, thanks
12:02.34MohammadAGSpeedEvil, how come?
12:02.37mc_teolol, greeting by a nokia text
12:02.50SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Because the new SIM hasn't got the same number.
12:03.01mc_teosince your using 3g modems sim, MohammadAG, rather than regular
12:03.04SpeedEvilMohammadAG: And in at least one of my SIMs cases, it's only data, no SMS or voice.
12:03.14SpeedEvilWell - it will do inbound SMS
12:03.26MohammadAGso 3G modem sims differ?
12:03.38SpeedEvilMohammadAG: no.
12:03.47SpeedEvilMohammadAG: different mobile accounts differ.
12:03.58MohammadAGheh
12:04.01mc_teoi wouldnt think they differ, just the mobile provider has them marked as data-only
12:04.10SpeedEvilMohammadAG: They may not offer various services, or be extremely expensive for some, or be locked to one 'phone'
12:04.15MohammadAGone more question, do two 3G devices affect each other?
12:04.23mc_teoand will charge tons if used for sms or calls
12:04.26SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes, but not much.
12:04.35MohammadAGI have the N900 and the modem close to each other and they're both connected to 3G
12:05.08SpeedEvilMohammadAG: if they are right next to each other, and active, you may get some interference.
12:05.12SpeedEvilIn some modes
12:05.44mc_teohaving to flash my phone before breakfast, not the best start to the morning
12:05.48Venemoso MohammadAG, if I have a main SIM whose phone number everyone knows but I don't have a data plan on it and I have a 3G modem with a SIM which has a data plan but doesn't have a phone plan, then if I swap SIM cards, noone will be able to call me.
12:06.15MohammadAGVenemo, call diverting :P
12:06.25VenemoMohammadAG: call diverting also costs money.
12:06.52SpeedEvilMohammadAG: My mobile data SIM does not actually support voice calls - at all.
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12:06.59mc_teohmm, when did the n900 get sound effects?
12:06.59SpeedEvilMohammadAG: so I can't even in principle redirect.
12:07.06SpeedEvilmc_teo: ages ago
12:07.15Venemomc_teo: it always had them
12:07.19mc_teopre pr1.2?
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12:07.34SpeedEvilmc_teo: The noise when you plug it in, the haptic noise, the explosion in a cymbal factory of battery run out.
12:07.35Sc0rpiusyes
12:07.43SpeedEvilI think even in PR1.l0
12:07.46SpeedEvil1.0
12:07.47Sc0rpius"Enable system sounds" in Settings
12:07.53Sc0rpiusin profile settings
12:08.08Sc0rpiussince the phone exists it has that option
12:08.11mc_teoi flashed pr1.2 and ota to pr1.3 when they first came out, and have never heard them
12:08.22mc_teoperhaps i had them muted
12:08.46MohammadAGThe N8 inhertied the battery low and battery empty sounds from the N900
12:09.16MohammadAGthough battery empty doesn't stutter on the N8
12:11.12alteregoHeh
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12:24.03VenemoMohammadAG: it doesn't stutter on my N900 either
12:24.24MohammadAGVenemo, it stutters on all N900's I've seen
12:24.31MohammadAGthe multiple beeps at the end of it
12:24.40MohammadAGthey're only 3, they seem like 9 or something on the N900
12:25.10alteregobbl
12:25.51Venemohmm
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12:49.20mc_teolol
12:51.48achipaVenemo: thx for the note - will check with the webteam on monday
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12:52.42Venemoachipa: thx
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13:20.08mc_teodamn
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13:20.14mc_teonot the same error
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13:20.40mc_teobut the sim keeps... i dont know how to describe it
13:20.51mc_teoits like it logouts every so often
13:21.10mc_teoive had trouble before with this sim card
13:21.24mc_teomy old phone was a sony ericsson w810i
13:21.49mc_teowhich had a sim holder, where you needed to slide it out
13:22.06mc_teoit seemed a guarenteed way to break the sim card
13:22.13mc_teoso perhaps i damaged it there
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13:24.36ShadowJKI had a problem where I got the crossed out sim icon
13:25.07frits_I'm experiencing (very) distorted phone calls. I'm running kernel-power (not overclocked). I RMA'd my phone a while ago because of this, but it wasn't fixed when it came back (although they told me they "replaced some parts"). It seems that the distortion happens almost always while connected to a 3G network and frequently while connected to a 2G network. Even the ringing itself when calling someone is distorted and the person I'm calling with is hearing me
13:25.08frits_(very) distorted as well. Could someone help me with this? Or should I RMA the phone again :( ?
13:25.17ShadowJKand also notification about all telephony disabled
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13:26.35isakhello, is it possible to merge conversations from a backup ?
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13:32.36RST38hhttp://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-spartacus-live-on-al-jazeera/
13:32.39SpeedEvilfrits_: The mic is distorted, or the speakers?
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13:36.13mc_teoShadowJK: yes? did you resolve it?
13:38.09mc_teoif so how/
13:38.10mc_teo?
13:38.51ShadowJKno I tried with several different sim cards
13:38.55ShadowJKsame thing
13:39.04ShadowJKso I sent it to nokia for repairä
13:39.18ShadowJKstill waiting on it to come back
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13:43.25SpeedEvilhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MBWTqfCFd0&feature=related - neat. Code deobfuscation by optimisation.
13:43.52SpeedEvilBasically, automatically eliminate dead paths.
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14:03.07jacekowskiis there any way to stream N900 camera video to interweb
14:03.16jacekowskito multiple people
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14:04.33SpeedEvilIt'd be lovely if flash knew how to work the camera.
14:05.22SpeedEvilI assume you mean some nice way, not a hack involving mencoder, and netpipes?
14:06.44frits_SpeedEvil: I'm sorry, I didn't read your respons (timed out). Both are distorted
14:07.08frits_SpeedEvil: Though I'd check the logs if someone replied and saw you did :)
14:07.31SpeedEvilfrits_: Does recording auio, or playing back audio suffer from the same distortion?
14:07.44frits_SpeedEvil: No, only phone calls
14:07.54SpeedEvilhave you tried recording audio?
14:08.32SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/
14:08.52frits_Not yet, I'll try
14:09.27frits_The distortion seems random, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. Also, sometimes both me and the other person are distorted and the other time just one of us
14:09.36SpeedEvilhmm
14:09.45SpeedEvilOdd.
14:09.59frits_I'm really thinking it is some HW problem, but I hate to RMA it again for obvious reasons
14:10.30SpeedEvilI'd try seeing if same issue hits with SIP. Does it happen often?
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14:10.38Sicelo~rma
14:10.38infobotrma is, like, Return Materials Authorisation, or the process you go through when you want to return a dead part to a manufacturer in exchange for a new one
14:11.20frits_SIP? You mean stuff like Skype etc? If so, I'm not subscribed to any of those services :-/
14:12.07frits_It happens almost alwasy while connected to a 3G network and less frequently while connected to a 2G network (although still often)
14:13.35BCMMfrits_: skype doesn't use SIP
14:13.46BCMMfrits_: skype has a propriatary protocol of it's own
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14:14.46frits_~sip
14:14.46infobotsip is probably Session Initiation Protocol, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/ (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP!
14:15.13frits_BCMM: don't know what SIP mean to be honest, I only make 'regular phone calls?
14:15.18frits_*means
14:16.40frits_To me it looks like something goes wrong decoding/encoding the phone signal when calling, but I ain't no expert on that
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14:25.40frits_I got to go now. I'll install recaller and see what it records when calling. I hope I'll get wiser on this issue and if not, I guess I'll have to say goodbey to my phone for a while again. Anyway, thank you for your help
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15:44.25DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moinmoin
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15:45.05javispedromorning
15:48.27RST38hmourning javispedro
15:48.48RST38hseen a blog post by Ari Jaaksi about how happy he is at HP?
15:48.54javispedrooh
15:49.03javispedrogoogles
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15:50.21javispedroheh, yet another os poll =)
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15:51.13GAN900facepalms.
15:51.22GAN900This is gonna be a long Saturday.
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15:51.42RST38hGAN: Something wrong?
15:51.56javispedronot for me, I'd _wish_ it was a long Saturday ;)
15:52.14RST38hWell, my Saturday is almost over, so a bit late for wishing
15:52.56javispedrolaughs slightly at the ari's blog trolls https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16130344&postID=6981172879459598430
15:53.48RST38hsome sad shit is being pointlessly unhappy, indeed.
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15:55.46javispedronow finds a proper use for the lenovo: wall mount it.
15:55.58GAN900RST38h, cosmos are out of alignment again
15:56.04RST38hjavispedro: on the inside of a restroom door.
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15:57.42RST38hGAN: the usual then
15:57.56DocScrutinizermeh
15:58.32DocScrutinizerwho is Ari Jaaksi?
15:58.35javispedroRST38h: running windows media center, on a restroom. brilliant!!
15:59.14GAN900DocScrutinizer, really?
15:59.23DocScrutinizernah
15:59.27RST38hjavis: the lenovo can do windows media center? hmmm
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16:00.03DocScrutinizerjust another Nokia victim
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16:00.37jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i've seen meego posters at fosdem
16:01.12DocScrutinizer...
16:01.20javispedroRST38h: it can if you can stand the choppy framerates
16:01.23DocScrutinizerwaiting for the point
16:01.34javispedrofor some reason 720p videos play better than the UI.
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16:02.04DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hw gfx accel?
16:02.17javispedronope, the card only does mpeg2
16:02.24DocScrutinizerumm
16:02.33javispedroI guess it's because the UI is written in .NET =)
16:02.52DocScrutinizerLOL
16:04.04jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: no maemo posters
16:04.14jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: == more people care about meego
16:04.15DocScrutinizertaadaaaa
16:04.41DocScrutinizerit's just we don't care about people :-P
16:06.45DocScrutinizeris a late adopter by nature - so doesn't give a flying F about random hype for future developments
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16:08.23DocScrutinizerI happily stay with desktop linux version of 2008, until some shit *forces* me to upgrade, which is always a PITA day (err week, month) in my life
16:09.24DocScrutinizerI got 2 N900, one's running PR1.1 with PK47, the other happily works on PR1.2 as my daily phone
16:09.37jacekowskiPK47?
16:09.53DocScrutinizerpowerkernel with uBoot, v47
16:09.56DocScrutinizeriirc
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16:12.28DocScrutinizerI'm NOT eager to get a working meego version eventually, finally. Probably final meego sucks same way the very first mickey mouse webpages sucked
16:13.05johnxever the optimist :)
16:13.13DocScrutinizerand all I hear of facts reported about meego UI seems to support that notion
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16:14.14RST38hHey, don't put down the upcoming meego ui
16:14.24DocScrutinizers/very first micke mouse/ very first mickey-mousey meego/
16:14.30RST38hI am sure the best UX engineers from Nokia are designing it as we speak
16:15.18DocScrutinizerI bet the dresscode in this workgroup is similar to that of disneyland :-P
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16:15.46Venemoalterego: you lied to me :P
16:16.23Venemoalterego: ui->graphicsView->setViewport(new QGLWidget()); makes it actually slower.
16:16.27johnxIsnt someone trying to forward port the Maemo 5 window management to Meego?
16:16.30RST38hDoc:I am sure you mean it in a good, well-natured way!
16:16.43DocScrutinizersuuuure
16:16.45RST38his being positive tonight
16:16.54Venemojohnx: if you mean hildon-desktop, then yes, smoku and I are
16:17.12DocScrutinizerRST38h: I am well aware Nokia needs to address the *young* audience
16:17.28Venemoalterego: and I'm not sure if this entire QGraphicsView thing made it any faster at all.
16:17.29DocScrutinizerthose that never in their life seen a decent desktop
16:17.45johnxVenemo, ah, keen. A lot of us might be relying on that depending on that :)
16:17.48RST38hDoc: Of course!
16:18.19Venemojohnx: 'that' being what?
16:18.21DocScrutinizerI'm growing gray and grumpy, and am happy with diablo hildon
16:18.32johnxthe forwared-ported hildon-desktop
16:18.52Venemookay johnx :)
16:18.53johnxin case the 'native' Meego UI ends up being a regression
16:19.18DocScrutinizerjohnx: yo da man!!
16:19.49RST38hjohnx: You will need gtk+ libs then, too
16:20.17johnxerrr, s/depending/wishing you the best and relying on your work/g
16:20.21johnxdon't get the wrong idea :)
16:20.42johnxalso: good morning
16:21.31DocScrutinizermeego UI *is* a regression by definition
16:21.35DocScrutinizerI heard...
16:21.50Venemohehe
16:22.03DocScrutinizersimplified to FUBAR
16:22.23DocScrutinizeraka Mickey Mouse!!!
16:23.00RST38hSo, could you give a URL of the definition?
16:23.11DocScrutinizerand honestly, this goes together well with parts of the core OS systems I looked at
16:24.31DocScrutinizerRST38h: this definition is kept in a vitrine at home of one of the 4 attendants of that legendary pub meeting
16:24.36VenemoDocScrutinizer: which systems?
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16:24.52DocScrutinizerit's the paper towel they scribbled meego foundation on
16:25.05DocScrutinizerVenemo: e.g sensorfw
16:27.21DocScrutinizers/vitrine/glass showcase/
16:28.02Venemookay, I don't get this.
16:28.12Venemowhy is my app slower with hw acceleration enabled than without it?
16:28.26DocScrutinizerhahaha
16:28.44DocScrutinizerglamo effect?
16:28.49VenemoDocScrutinizer: glamo?
16:28.54DocScrutinizer~glamo
16:28.54infobotsomebody said glamo was http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.openmoko.org+glamo+raster, or http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gta03/2009-April/000114.html
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16:29.31DocScrutinizer(a very poorly built and poorly integrated gfx chip of OM Freerunner)
16:30.13DocScrutinizeroverhead to operate the sparse incomplete gfx accel was higher than doing same cmpletely in sw
16:30.23*** join/#maemo Sicelo (~knoppix@41.215.145.1)
16:31.10Venemo:D
16:31.23Venemowell I can tell that it is indeed hw accelerated as the CPU usage is 0
16:31.44DocScrutinizeri.e. there's no use in doing one operation on the gfx card, if for the next operation on same dataset you need to transfer everything back to main menory
16:31.44johnxWell that's good in the long run anyways
16:31.48Venemohowever the puzzle pieces' movement became a lot slower and clumsy :(
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16:32.49DocScrutinizersounds exactly like glamo effect
16:33.05VenemoDocScrutinizer: yeah, but lots of more advanced apps than mine can run ot it smoothly
16:33.11VenemoDocScrutinizer: so the problem must be with my app
16:33.31DocScrutinizermaybe with your type of gfx operations
16:33.57VenemoDocScrutinizer: my type of gfx operations is ui->graphicsView->setViewport(new QGLWidget()); :P
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16:34.42DocScrutinizermoving around in memory huge chunks of graphic data tends to slow down everything, while it *looks like* nothing really got any load. DMA for example doesn't actually show up in CPU load
16:35.25DocScrutinizerand I have NFC what's actual overhead to setup GL
16:35.26johnxI was about to say it sounds a bit like it could be something like texture swapping, but I didn't want to lead you down the wrong path
16:35.40VenemoDocScrutinizer: okkay. but then why can more advanced apps, eg 3D games, run on it well, while my 2D thingy with a bunch of pixmap doesn't?
16:35.58johnxtoo many pixmaps to fit in graphics memory?
16:36.13Venemojohnx: I don't think so.
16:36.22DocScrutinizer3D maybe is doing more GL in a 'non-interruptable' way?
16:36.58DocScrutinizertoo simple GL operations that do too many callbacks to CPU too frequently?
16:37.18johnxDocScrutinizer, he was saying CPU usage was sitting around 0
16:37.33DocScrutinizerI know
16:37.46johnxUhm, this is totally out of left field ... but is the SGX's clock attached to the CPU clock in any way?
16:37.57DocScrutinizerquite possible CPU gets blocked waiting for GL to finish :-P
16:38.02VenemoDocScrutinizer: I've got no idea how QGL* works.
16:38.16DocScrutinizerneither
16:38.35VenemoDocScrutinizer: it worked well with some simple 3D demos I tried
16:38.43DocScrutinizeryou probably want to talk to rasterman about it
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16:39.43DocScrutinizeralas he got kicked in this chan several times, so won't come back anymore. You need to find him somewhere else
16:40.00GAN900DocScrutinizer, this channel?
16:40.05DocScrutinizeryep
16:40.35*** join/#maemo sezuan (bouncer@irc.scheff32.de)
16:40.39GAN900Hum, when, by whom and for what?
16:40.40*** join/#maemo lxp1 (~lxp@62-47-165-84.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
16:40.46*** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@HSI-KBW-091-089-033-054.hsi2.kabelbw.de)
16:41.02VenemoDocScrutinizer: I can /query him anyway. but who is he?
16:41.32DocScrutinizerlong ago, by crashanddie, one time for writing so fast it looked like pasting, another time for using u instead of you
16:41.39*** join/#maemo stevomanu (~stevomanu@178.105.237.184)
16:41.42VenemoDocScrutinizer: anyway, the first thing I would blame is the lots of fp calculations that the QGraphicsView fw do
16:42.48*** part/#maemo stevomanu (~stevomanu@178.105.237.184)
16:43.45DocScrutinizerVenemo: ~raterman
16:43.49DocScrutinizerVenemo: ~rasterman
16:44.01DocScrutinizer~rasterman
16:44.01infoboti guess rasterman is the guy that broke the mold with window managers and did stuff that people thought impossible.
16:44.26Venemoand he's familiar with QGL*?
16:44.35DocScrutinizer~seen raster
16:44.35infobotraster <raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 5d 7h 14m 21s ago, saying: 'jonwil: the channel disapproves of you :)'.
16:45.01Venemo~seen rasterman
16:45.01infoboti haven't seen 'rasterman', Venemo
16:45.15*** join/#maemo X-Fade_ (~xfade@178-116-43-116.access.telenet.be)
16:45.16VenemoDocScrutinizer: there is a person with that nick online right now
16:45.51DocScrutinizerhttp://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=Me
16:46.19VenemoDocScrutinizer: it doesn't say too much.
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16:49.50DocScrutinizerhttp://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=Main
16:49.53DocScrutinizermeh
16:50.03DocScrutinizerex OM colleague
16:50.06VenemoDocScrutinizer: in the news section, there's interesting stuff
16:51.26VenemoDocScrutinizer: search for 'Image Blend Occlude', 'Image Data ARGB', and 'Image Data ARGB Alpha'
16:51.53DocScrutinizerVenemo: when I suggest you might want to talk to rater, then you can trust in that suggestion ;-D
16:52.28DocScrutinizerraster* darn
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16:53.18johnxbut what he might convince you is that there's an insanely fast way to do it in software ;)
16:53.39RST38hNah, raster is all for OpenGL nowadays :)
16:53.53johnxthat's a bit of a change
16:54.29RST38hprobably just said "fuck it all" at some point and joined "the revolution"
16:54.39VenemoDocScrutinizer, johnx: after seeing those benchmarks, I now know what the problem was.
16:55.03VenemoI knew I'll need to sanitize my code in some time... just didn't expect it to be this soon :P
16:55.16johnxbetter sooner than later :)
16:56.08johnx(though I always avoid fixing my own hacks ...)
16:56.20Venemothing is, sadly what I was doing fell into the categories with negative changes in FPS. but I can fix that.
16:56.31javispedroVenemo: fullscreen?
16:57.48javispedronot to mention that yes, you're very probably doing 2d on software faster than the sgx, unless you're talking bout rotation&zooming of many things
16:58.27javispedromany things that don't change per frame ;)
16:58.35Venemojavispedro: the puzzle pieces were large pixmaps whose area composed of a small actual image and the rest of them were transparent
16:58.54RST38hVenemo: Still, you have to load that pixmap into PVR
16:58.56RST38htakes time
16:59.01Venemojavispedro: now that I removed the transparent parts, performance is acceptable
16:59.13javispedro"how did you do that"?
16:59.17Venemojavispedro: plus, the pixmaps are smaller
16:59.33Venemojavispedro: as I said, by making insane code saner.
16:59.53javispedroyou probably changed from 32bpp textures to 16bpp
17:00.07javispedrothereby nearly halfing the bandwidth.
17:00.32javispedromy suggestion is that if you're interested in the alpha textures experiment with the pvr format
17:01.12DocScrutinizermeh, what I said. too simple for GL
17:01.42DocScrutinizertoo much overhead
17:01.48Venemojavispedro: no, nothing like that
17:02.12javispedrothe good thing is that you can mostly estimate the overhead as constant
17:02.20RST38hDoc: Mostly because PVR does not allow you to have textures in memory, you have to load them
17:02.27Venemojavispedro: as I said, the pixmaps were large, with most parts simply transparent. now they are small with no transparent parts.
17:02.29RST38hAnd loading textures is slowwwww
17:02.34DocScrutinizeryup
17:02.40javispedroVenemo: ah, well.
17:03.11RST38hWhich works pretty well with the MIDP 3D APIs but fails for everything else
17:03.12johnxhuh. my guess of texture swapping was actually close :)
17:03.50javispedrotmo: "Has NITDROID project been aborted ?????? " (clearly, all of their developers have been killed, the money reassigned somewhere and their x-files shredded)
17:04.10RST38hOf cause it has been killed!
17:04.20DocScrutinizerhoooooray!
17:04.30RST38hNow, let us all have a funeral service right in that thread!
17:04.48DocScrutinizerwith champagne and shit
17:04.54RST38hrrright
17:05.25javispedroRST38h: supposedly, you were being positive tonight ;)
17:05.47DocScrutinizerbut wait, that means tmo... brrrrrr, not in the right mood for that now
17:05.52RST38hjavispedro: Am I not suggesting a festive celebration of sorts? =)
17:06.00javispedroheh, touché.
17:06.09johnxIt'd be more Irish wake style :)
17:06.32johnxSure, we'd drink and get in fights, but it's because we loved the idea of android on N900 ...
17:07.48*** join/#maemo noodles900 (~jpinx@202.91.18.194)
17:11.29GAN900johnx, do we?
17:11.58*** join/#maemo amanB (~chatzilla@110.224.37.192)
17:13.22johnxGAN900, sarcasm was happening there
17:13.32johnxI think my IRC client stripped the sarcasm tag ...
17:13.43javispedroevil non-standard irc clients
17:14.04SpeedEvilhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jan/20/rise-of-the-sarcmark
17:14.26fellu:D
17:14.35johnxIn my case I should just mark things that aren't meant sarcastically ...
17:14.54johnxor include the sarcmark in my sig and negate it later if I need to
17:15.05pupnikhttp://www.warmplace.ru/soft/sunvox/  synth/tracker for iphone/palm/linux/windows
17:15.12pupniktry it with preenv
17:15.23javispedropalm as in palmos, not webos
17:15.25javispedro=)
17:15.46GAN900johnx, ah, right.
17:15.47javispedroso, try it with garnetvm
17:15.49*** join/#maemo chx (~chx@drupal.org/user/9446/view)
17:15.52javispedropupnik^^
17:16.01pupnikoh oops
17:18.19javispedroit will probably work on the n8x0
17:18.55*** join/#maemo isak (~isak@78-69-9-172-no169.tbcn.telia.com)
17:20.09DocScrutinizermeh, no sarcmark here, or do I simply miss the unicode point?
17:20.21DocScrutinizerbut I got ¡
17:20.58DocScrutinizerjohnx: not sarcasm obviously is !¡ then ;-)
17:21.42johnxor a 0 length exclamatory sentence in Spanish :D
17:22.10DocScrutinizernah, that'd be ¡!
17:22.44*** join/#maemo MadViking (~user@88.193.150.143)
17:23.20johnxtrue, true. unless it was backwards day
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17:29.54*** join/#maemo pupnik_ (~pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik)
17:35.29DocScrutinizeranyway, infobot needs a new definition of factoid sarcasm¡
17:37.14pupnik_:)
17:40.50pupnik_considering how useless other phones are, 250 eu isn't bad for a used N900
17:40.52*** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@188.188.147.155)
17:41.55LjL250 is about the average price for it, although you can get one for less
17:42.05LjLused to cost more not too many months ago
17:42.28chxso. what will Nokia announce Friday? Merger with BlackBerry? Partnership with HP to use WebOS? what else can they do to save themselves? Waving a new handset and showing how cool it is wont cut it
17:43.39pupnik_how about saying 'screw the US market'
17:43.48johnxThey'll announce chx as head of marketing :)
17:43.54chxLOL
17:44.20SpeedEvilchx: Nice shiny completely open handset with a partially working OS, sold at cost to devs.
17:44.24chxpupnik_: that's another strategy. relegate themselves to the mid-to-low end , curb R&D costs and leverage the huge selling network. sure.
17:44.28chxSpeedEvil: haha
17:44.40pupnik_it's not a low-end strategy.  the USA is the low end.
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17:45.27RST38hsees strategists discussing the strategy@
17:45.28RST38h!
17:45.44pupnik_heheh
17:45.54*** join/#maemo madalu (~user@unaffiliated/madalu)
17:46.55pupnik_"I gots a shineyyy smartfoone and it onlyee costed me a hunnred dollars!"  (Says the USian locked-down and enslave by contract)
17:47.04pupnik_+d
17:47.21RST38hwho cares what the sheep say?
17:48.15johnxRST38h, the sheep whisperer?
17:48.40RST38hjohnx: possibly, but what do I know of these...
17:49.12johnxI think I'm supposed to make some joke about RST38h and sheep now :)
17:49.40johnxpupnik_, Just so you know, in a lot of cases you don't actually end up with a cheaper plan even if you bring your own phone
17:50.08RST38hjohnx: also true
17:50.19RST38hso, you are fucked either way
17:50.37derfHence the sheep.
17:50.38johnxand switching carriers here pretty much means getting a new phone, so a lot of people don't really see a 2-year subsidized deal as all that bad
17:51.02johnxRST38h, but the Canadians are screwed even worse
17:51.21chxnot any more
17:51.27chxwe are now fairly free
17:51.53RST38hderf: Just because you understand you are among the sheep,does not give you a ticket out of the farm =)
17:51.58johnxah, did someone do something with the 1700/2100 spectrum?
17:52.10chxwith Bell/Telus implements a standard HSDPA network (dudee what) second Mobilicty and Wind builds AWS networks
17:52.36chxjohnx: http://mobilicity.ca/ and http://www.windmobile.ca/
17:52.58johnxso you can switch companies, but do you actually get better monthly rates by bringing your own phone?
17:53.09chxjohnx: but, now, really Bell / Telus too in case you do not barf out in the store just to deal with them
17:53.16*** join/#maemo tackat (~trahn@p5B367CDC.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:53.16chxjohnx: yes
17:53.27*** join/#maemo thmarkus (~thmarkus@p5DCE1010.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
17:53.41chxjohnx: i am running my N900 on Wind and they charged me, i think 10 dollars for the SIM, i pay after and have no contract. Blis.
17:54.17RST38hwhat are traffic costs?
17:54.20johnxyeah, no contract, but I mean are the *monthly* rates lower than if you'd gotten a phone on contract?
17:54.40chxjohnx: there are no contracts. you can't sign one
17:54.51johnxah. interesting
17:55.11RST38hMeanwhile: Nokia reportedly planning 'organizational changes,' mobile phones exec on the outs
17:55.21RST38hjohnx: similar to here I guess
17:55.27*** join/#maemo ZogG (~zoggrules@bzq-79-178-43-84.red.bezeqint.net)
17:55.33chxjohnx: http://www2.windmobile.ca/en/Pages/WINDtab.aspx this is the version of "subsized" Wind-style
17:55.34RST38hjohnx: $5 for the SIM and the money goes to your account.
17:56.03RST38hjohnx: And then you just fill it up using any cell phone shop or a machine at the street or an ATM
17:56.06johnxchx, that's fairly recent, isn't it?
17:56.10chxit is
17:56.33chxthe only gotcha with Wind is that the mobile data have a limited (but not terribly limited) amount of ports. You need a laptop plan (you can't combine that with a voice plan) to have all ports
17:56.44*** join/#maemo pcacjr (~pcacjr@187.78.32.245)
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17:57.10RST38hthe paper stated that Mary T. McDowell, a bigwig in the mobile phones unit, as well as Niklas Savander, the manager of the markets unit, could be on the outs. Moreover, Kai Oistamo (Chief Development Officer) and Tero Ojanpera, the manager responsible for services and mobile solutions, may also be enjoying their final weekends as Nokia employees.
17:57.18chxjohnx: http://www2.windmobile.ca/WIND%20Docs/Fair-Usage-Policy.pdf this is the fair use policy for the unlimited plans. it's not unreasonable.
17:57.44RST38hwonders if this will be the only MWC announcement from Nokia =)
17:57.50johnxand it looks like your ISPs didn't get away with that law they were trying to put through about billing per GB.
17:58.14chxno, they didnt
17:58.17RST38hjohnx: I am billed per GB. Nothing wrong with that.
17:58.18chxyou cant imagine the outrage
17:58.33RST38hjohnx: Still paying twice less than I would in the US, at much higher speeds
17:59.31johnxRST38h, Let me find the chart of bandwidth costs in Canada. It would have ended up quite expensive for them if the law had gone through ;)
17:59.43chx$2 per gigabyte
17:59.46chxit was not pretty
18:00.03RST38hjohnx: Cryptosocialists. They cross the border and walk among us unnoticed. (C)Michael Moore
18:00.23luke-jrthat IS unreasonable
18:00.36luke-jr5 GB/mo is nothing
18:01.29chxBashing the Canadians are "socialists" by a nutjub like Michael Moore....
18:01.30chxerm...
18:01.42chxI did live in a socialist country
18:01.46RST38hchx: No, only the second sentence is attributed to him
18:02.02chxand now, I do live in Canada
18:02.03RST38hchx: And even that was made *before* he became the dork on a mission he is right now
18:02.06johnxRST38h, part of the problem is that the ISPs were into the content&telephony game as well, so there was a huge conflict of interest
18:02.32chxIf anyone calls Canada a socialist country they do not have the shortest idea of what socialism is
18:02.49RST38hjohnx: Eh.. Not like you would need a conflict of interest to charge higher rates, as long as customers pay them
18:03.07chxjust fyi, giving the poor health care is not socialism. It's called "humanity" :P
18:03.20RST38hchx: Notice the Crypto- prefix
18:03.28RST38hIt should have rung a bell or two...
18:03.31chxeven Crypto- is a faaaaar overshot
18:03.49chxi find it... hilarious? sad? when people from the first world throw that world around
18:03.53johnxRST38h, the thought being that they'd ramp up the bandwidth cost to push people away from streaming movies from a 3rd party, then offer their own overpriced movie-streaming plan that was bandwidth exempt
18:03.55chxtry to live in one first, dude.
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18:04.24GAN900chuckles.
18:04.36RST38hchx <-- suddenly detonated
18:04.56RST38hjohnx: Torrent it is.
18:05.30RST38hjohnx: And lawyers fighting over a service that only a few people are interested in, they are hilarious
18:05.42johnxRST38h, uhm, see the part about insanely high per GB bandwidth costs + throttling
18:05.47chxyeah that was the plan up until the point when people have flooded Mr. Clement's office with such an amount of mail that even the prime minister needed to stand up and say "we wont let this happen"
18:06.06johnxRST38h, netflix has gotten somewhat popular in the US&Canada
18:06.44RST38hjohnx: yes but that was since the DVD mailing time
18:07.19GAN900johnx, the problem of monopolies.
18:07.29*** join/#maemo lcukn900 (~lcuk@188.188.0.32)
18:08.06RST38hGAN: Telcos are natural monopolies, there is only a few wires going into your home and telcos own 'em
18:08.16GAN900RST38h, sort of.
18:08.24RST38hGAN: Hence their protests against municipal WiFi
18:08.40RST38hWhich they apparently managed t kill almost everywhere in the US, right?
18:08.53johnxRST38h, article from last year says: 15 million subscribers of which 60% stream content
18:08.58johnxhttp://techcrunch.com/2010/07/21/netflix-users/
18:09.07GAN900That combined with the crazy regulatory requirements imposed by the FCC makes it impossible for small companies to compete
18:09.10RST38hjohnx: Wow
18:09.29johnxit's admittedly a pretty slick service
18:10.12RST38hjohnx: do they still charge the same as they charged for mail-in DVDs?
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18:10.56johnxRST38h, they just added the streaming part free. Then later they bumped the plan by $1/month and offered a 'streaming only' plan at the old price
18:11.18RST38hGAN: You mean, nobody has figured they can wire a neighborhood with CAT5 and share the same account with an ISP?
18:11.36RST38hGAN: Or place a few WiFi access points, with the same effect?
18:11.48chxAHEM
18:11.49GAN900chx, out of interest. Do you see the flaws with an emotion-based argument like that?
18:12.06chxand then the ISP disables you  because sharing is not allowed.
18:12.23RST38hjohnx: Hmm, so basically it is unlimited movies for a flat monthly fee?
18:12.26chxyou need a "leased line" for that which, of course, is hideously expensive.
18:12.31RST38hchx: Howdo they know?
18:12.41chxRST38h: this has been so since forever?
18:13.02chxRST38h: unlimited movies for a flat fee, yes, but you cna't watch on Linux
18:13.15johnxRST38h, yeah, but they don't put the newest stuff online, and sometimes they don't get streaming deals with studios
18:13.26RST38hchx:So, how do they know, since forever? =)
18:13.39chxRST38h: what, read any ISP ToS
18:13.49RST38h(btw, leased lines were something like $700/mo and that was 13years ago)
18:13.59RST38hchx: You are not answering the question
18:14.11RST38hjohnx: Torrent then.
18:14.12chxRST38h: oh, how woudl the ISP know it?
18:14.15johnxbut really, it's a pretty great deal and the reason that I get away without having cable TV or even an antenna to receive OTA broadcasts :)
18:14.22*** join/#maemo Elfix (~elfix@wikipedia/pdpc.21for7.elfix)
18:14.33chxRST38h: that's a good question... deep packet investigation? i dunno, it could be your home NAT, right?
18:14.46RST38hjohnx: On the other hand, I have to admit I haven't used Torrent for anything more than downloading a season of Dr Who
18:14.53johnxRST38h, exactly. Netflix lets me cut down on my torrents ;) It's great for the "I want to watch something right now" mindset
18:14.57RST38hchx: So, there is no answer.
18:15.12RST38hjohnx: Still takes time to start streaming I guess
18:15.24chxRST38h: so let's put this way -- putting down CAT5 is expensive ('cos digging the street is epxneisve) and investing money on the hope the ISP won't catch is not the best business plan.
18:15.36RST38hchx:No, wrong answer.
18:15.38johnxRST38h, 30s? Probably longer to get a DVD off the shelf
18:15.44compengihello all, how do i check the currect firmware and maemo version? and does the software updater upgrades to the newest version and firmware or i should manually flash it?
18:15.52compengicurrent*
18:16.10RST38hjohnx: Can'ttake 30s
18:16.24johnxcompengi, Settings -> About product
18:16.27RST38hjohnx: Probably takes a couple of minutes at least, to fill up the buffer
18:16.47johnxcompengi, Current is: 20.2010.36-2
18:16.52johnxRST38h, want me to test it?
18:16.54RST38hchx: Don't need to dig it in, really
18:17.01RST38hjohnx: If you have the service, yes
18:17.11RST38hjohnx: Also, does it have hiccups?
18:17.23johnxrarely
18:17.23compengijohnx, aha, so i have the latest, and what about the firmware?
18:17.29RST38h'cause it is either fast startup or possibility of hiccups
18:17.56johnxRST38h, I think it's "more possibility of hiccups early" and then it keeps building a buffer
18:18.10RST38hjohnx: Depends on your connection I guess
18:18.18johnxI have a good connection ;)
18:18.33johnxand netflix has good connectivity
18:18.35RST38hjohnx: All attempts at streaming I have seen in the States (mostly Comcast) were PAIN
18:19.13johnxNetflix has some serious geopgraphic diversity, deals with multiple backbone providers
18:20.09johnxcompengi, what about it? It's the latest. Did you want to reflash?
18:20.22johnxRST38h, IIRC, their plan from the beginning was the streaming stuff, even when they were getting it jump started with the mailing DVDs thing.
18:22.07RST38hjohnx: Doubt it: when they came up to be, video streaming was a pie in the sky
18:22.10RST38hUnobtainable
18:22.19johnxabout 13s to moving video
18:22.29RST38hPretty good
18:22.32johnxmaybe it buffers in the background as soon as I pick a video?
18:22.41compengijohnx, i see, so the maemo software is the firmware
18:23.00johnxcompengi, yeah. people sometimes use both words interchangeably
18:23.03GAN900Netflix is great when it works
18:23.12RST38hjohnx: As longas your download speed is faster than play back, why not
18:23.13johnxRST38h, they might be doing some terribly 'clever' stuff for all I know, but the effect is that it works well from a user point of view
18:23.33compengijohnx, good to know :)
18:23.39RST38hjohnx: Nah, cannot cheat the information theory
18:24.03RST38hjohnx: It either looks like shit (see Youtube) or requires long startup, or hiccups, or (most often) all the above
18:24.22johnxRST38h, err, I mean there's a screen when you select a movie, before you hit 'play' for that movie. The might already be streaming it before I even confirm my choice
18:25.12compengibtw how much time does it usually take to fully charge the phone when it's turned off? i left the phone on till it went off and now charging it for ~2.5h, is it usual?
18:25.17RST38hprebuffering? should be easy to detect by watching network activity =)
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18:25.50johnxcompengi, Are you charging from USB? or a wall charger?
18:26.00compengifrom the wall charger
18:26.11johnxRST38h, or fast startup with higher probability of hiccups early on, then fill the buffer aggressively. They also do tricks with different quality levels to suit different bandwidth
18:26.21johnxcompengi, it's probably almost charged
18:27.06RST38hjohnx: again that requires the bandwidth
18:27.18compengijohnx, btw it's charging while it's on, i misinterpret myself
18:27.25RST38hjohnx: on the other hand, you may have the bandwidth given good connectivity in the US
18:27.47RST38hjohnx: As there is just a handful of pipes between here and the US, I do not have the same here :)
18:27.57johnxRST38h, yeah, but "see also: adaptive bitrate" :)
18:28.09johnxand they only offer it in the US and Canada anyways
18:28.18johnxyou'd need to do some clever proxying
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18:29.46RST38hjohnx: Torrent.
18:29.54johnxRST38h, whatever floats your boat :)
18:30.31RST38hjohnx: [un]funny thing is, I haven't downloaded a single US blockbuster movie, ever
18:30.52RST38hjohnx: It is always some weird, old, usually european stuff
18:31.19RST38hjohnx: and it is quite possible that I am not alone in this
18:31.48johnx:)
18:31.56derfThe internet is a great repository of things you cannot buy in any store.
18:32.31derfI was sad to find the link to Borland Turbo C 2.0 is dead.
18:33.44RST38hderf:YOu can still get WatcomC though, it is better! =)
18:34.04RST38hFor those times when you absolutely need to write a Novell driver or an OS/2app
18:34.10derfRST38h: That is actually what I did.
18:34.13johnxgrrrr, is there anything I can do to make "make modules_install" install to a $PREFIX?
18:34.26johnx(linux kernel)
18:34.27derfThey even have a Linux version, but it won't build for x86-64.
18:34.37derf"Unknown architecture"
18:35.26johnxnevermind. $INSTALL_MOD_PATH
18:35.27DocScrutinizercompengi: iirc the specs say it needs 3.5h
18:35.36lindi-johnx: O=$PREFIX?
18:35.37johnxneeded to RTFMakefile
18:35.54DocScrutinizerthough it is reaching some 90% after 90min
18:36.11RST38hderf: Hack it!
18:36.29derfThe goal of the exercise was to get something working fast.
18:36.30pupnik_wow, n900 just sold with english kb for 190 euro on ebay.de
18:36.37pupnik_and a few minutes before 290 euro
18:36.43pupnik_crazy price range
18:36.55derfI just needed to be able to test that some code worked with a 16-bit int, and real-mode DOS was the easiest platform to do that in.
18:38.45compengiDocScrutinizer, wow.. my n79 with 1200mAh used to charge in ~1.25h lol
18:39.28compengiDocScrutinizer, 3.5h while the phone is on or off?
18:39.32DocScrutinizercompengi: it's easy to make N900 tell you "charging finished" after 60min :-P
18:39.45DocScrutinizercompengi: that's largely irrelevant
18:40.14DocScrutinizerit's the pretty slow topping charge at end of charging that takes lots of time
18:40.16compengiDocScrutinizer, well.. i hope n79 didn't fool me
18:40.18compengi:P
18:40.42compengii know
18:40.43DocScrutinizerit'S a question how you define "charging finished" - nothing to do with fooling
18:40.49johnxDocScrutinizer, except for emergency charge, is it ever really charging while off?
18:41.00DocScrutinizerno
18:41.00johnxI mean, don't they use X11 to display the charging screen?
18:41.14jacekowskijohnx: no
18:41.19jacekowskijohnx: phone is running when charging
18:41.31jacekowskijust with minimal os
18:41.49DocScrutinizerit's entering a different init-state, like init 1 maybe
18:42.00DocScrutinizercalled ACT_DEAD
18:42.28DocScrutinizerit can even run sw-updates OTA during that :-D
18:42.33johnxah, on the N800 it booted all the way into X to display the charging icon
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18:42.50compengii wonder why nokia decided to use a 1320mAh battery on such a power consuming phone :/
18:43.06johnxit's already brick-sized :)
18:43.09DocScrutinizerprobably it was the best fit
18:43.18compengii've seen phones with 1800mAh
18:43.20DocScrutinizerform factor wise
18:43.45compengiwell.. n900 is already huge :P
18:43.49SiceloDocScrutinizer: sw-updates while charging in off state? :-O
18:43.52DocScrutinizerbtw N900 by no means is power hungry
18:44.01DocScrutinizerpoorly written apps are, though
18:44.09DocScrutinizerSicelo: yep
18:44.18jacekowskiwell, they could have used bigger battery anyways
18:44.19compengiif they would have added +1x1x1 cm it wouldn't make much of a difference, would it? :D
18:44.35DocScrutinizerLOL
18:44.50jacekowskido it like in nokia 5110
18:44.51DocScrutinizerthat'd be much more of a brick than even N810
18:45.00jacekowskiwhere battery was a back cover at the same time
18:45.06compengilol
18:45.09jacekowskiso you have bit more space
18:45.16compengii've seen such phones
18:45.23compengi6310i or so
18:45.28DocScrutinizerhaha
18:45.29compengimy dad uses it till now
18:45.50DocScrutinizermy 6210 is pretty lean, compared to even the N900
18:46.17DocScrutinizeranyway, dinnertime
18:46.20DocScrutinizercya o/
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18:46.59compengisee ya
18:47.09SiceloEnjoy it DocScrutinizer :)
18:47.10Sicelothanks for the info
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19:15.13compengican i switch off the sound while tapping on the touch screen?
19:15.21RST38hMeanwhile: Hackers Penetrate Nasdaq Computer Networks
19:16.05sleepeehello everybody.  i have a quick question about the n900 and was wondering if somebody could help me.
19:17.02SpeedEvilsleepee: maybe.
19:17.08SpeedEvilsleepee: What is your problem?
19:17.32felluyea
19:17.47sleepeewell, i got my n900 a while ago and am planning to use it with t-mobile, but they need to know where to put the APN.\
19:17.54compengiwow, that's nasty
19:18.00SpeedEvilsleepee: Are you in the US?
19:18.04sleepeethey don't know where to put this nuber
19:18.19sleepeein puerto rico, but i think it's the same t-mobile
19:18.30SpeedEvilsleepee: It is - but implementation details differ
19:19.03SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fapn/ for example
19:19.06sleepeehmm.. well, i've been playing with the phone trying to figure out where to put this number but i can't find it
19:19.21SpeedEvilIt's not a number usually
19:19.42SpeedEvilIt's an address, like an interenet address, but not really
19:20.04sleepeeahhh  i see.. so i have to download this app and use that?
19:20.26DocScrutinizer51APN for internet/data?
19:20.51sleepeeyes @ DocScrutinizer51 if i'm not mistaken
19:21.02SpeedEvilsleepee: that's one way to do it - usually your service provider will send you a  special SMS, and it just works.
19:21.24DocScrutinizer51you put that yourself into settings - internet - new_connection
19:21.49sleepeei can put the apn into the internet connections settings?
19:21.51DocScrutinizer51or you get that SMS
19:22.01DocScrutinizer51yes
19:22.55sleepeeoh, i see...   well, i'll download that fapn app just in case as well..  the t-mobile people had never seen the n900 and it didn't look like they knew what they were doing with that phone
19:23.06sleepeelol
19:23.30DocScrutinizer51compengi: check touchscreen click volume, in settings input (iirc, or screen)
19:23.37SpeedEvilGenerally, if you can get them to send a SMS with settings to the phone, it 'just works'.
19:23.59sleepeebtw, i don't need anything else to actually use the n900 on the tmobile network as a phone do i?
19:24.18DocScrutinizer51generally your provider doesn't ask you where to put that
19:24.22SpeedEvilsleepee: Shouldn't. Though I don't know if it works at all in brazil.
19:24.45SpeedEvilsleepee: generally, if it can work, it will work.
19:25.26compengiDocScrutinizer51, i don't have a volume option in the screen settings
19:25.39DocScrutinizer51mompls
19:25.46sleepeethe way they explained the apn to me, it seemed like just a type of access point or a router..
19:26.28DocScrutinizer51settings - profile, last setting there
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19:26.57DocScrutinizer51sleepee: that's correct
19:28.47sleepeeok.. well, i just downloaded the fapn app... it seems easy enough for the tmobile people to work with.  thanks for the help guys!
19:30.03sleepeeoh wait!! i have another question... not related to apn though.  lol
19:30.39compengiDocScrutinizer51, thanks, found it
19:30.53sleepeeto update the phone to pr 1.3 it seems like i need ovi suite or something installed on my computer.
19:31.00DocScrutinizer51sleepee: fapn is for mms
19:31.13DocScrutinizer51not needed for normal data access
19:31.58DocScrutinizer51you first should get normal data working, then see about MMS, they usually have a different APN
19:31.59sleepee@ DocScrutinizer51 idk, that's what the tmobile people told me i needed for internet access
19:32.24SpeedEvilOops - I thought it was for APN
19:32.34sleepeeit seems they have different internet apn's for different phones
19:32.36SpeedEvilThey can't just tell you teh APN? Or you look it up?
19:33.18sleepeehmm... i didn't ask.
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19:33.29sleepeei'll google it though
19:35.01sleepeei think i mightve found it.. epc.tmobile.com i'll give it a try..
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19:36.34DocScrutinizersure
19:37.17sleepeehmm..  i added with the fapn app and it tells me to edit the control panel.
19:37.52DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"
19:38.08DocScrutinizerDO NOT USE FAPN!
19:38.25sleepeelol.. ok.. no more fapn
19:38.38DocScrutinizerfapn is for MMS!
19:38.42lcukn900lolololol
19:40.36DocScrutinizer[2011-02-05 20:31:58] <DocScrutinizer51> you first should get normal data working, then see about MMS, they usually have a different APN
19:40.42SpeedEvilOops - sorry, I misundertood what it was for. I've never seen the normal set AP?N thingy
19:40.46sleepeeok... i added epc.tmobile.com to the ssid.
19:41.11DocScrutinizerto WHAT?
19:41.13SpeedEvilssid is the wrong place
19:41.28sleepeelol!!!  im confused..
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19:41.40DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"
19:41.41DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"
19:41.43DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"
19:42.37sleepeewhen i tap on new it asks me for the name of the connection.. i just put tmobile.
19:43.09SpeedEvilIs there an existing cellphone internet connection?
19:43.14SpeedEvilIf there is, it will do that
19:43.35SpeedEvilThe icon for an existing cellphone internet connection is like two arrows
19:43.36SpeedEvil->
19:43.38SpeedEvil<-
19:43.41SpeedEvilIn a circle
19:43.53SpeedEvilIf there is one, you need to edit it
19:43.58DocScrutinizeryep, sorry
19:44.12sleepeelol!!!  i think i forgot to tell youguys i don't actually have service with tmobile yet
19:44.31DocScrutinizerprolly you already have a connection of whatver name that's a GPRS connection, selct that one and 'edit'
19:45.17sleepeeok.. so when i actually get my cell phone activated with tmobile, i can edit the cell phone internet connection and from there add the apn?
19:45.37DocScrutinizeryou can only config one GPRS connection for data(internet) - a flaw of the settings and connectivity manager
19:46.32sleepeegprs?
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19:48.28sleepeeoh.. that's the cellular connection...
19:50.41sleepeehmm... i see..  well i was just askin for info for when i actually get my cell activated...  thanks for the help guys!
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19:53.57SpeedEvilGood luck.
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20:01.05Ken-YoungCan I talk some kind soul into testing my app (orrery) in the Extras Testing repository?   It's been in QA purgatory for a couple of weeks, and needs one more positive vote to graduate.
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20:02.47DocScrutinizer51you bet I'll do :-)
20:02.57Ken-YoungThanks!
20:03.04DocScrutinizer51orrery is GREAT
20:03.22Ken-YoungI didn't know you ever ran it.
20:03.45DocScrutinizer51I love it since _es
20:03.50DocScrutinizer51ages*
20:04.40Ken-YoungThat's great to hear.   Please, please let me know of any features you'd like to have added.   I'm afraid I'm adding stuff that nobody but me cares about.
20:05.15Ken-YoungLike the new analemma.
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20:18.47DocScrutinizer51damn, I never before heard of analemma, and it's nice to learn about the data in it
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20:19.51DocScrutinizer51I always wonder when the sat dishes will incinerate the LNBs, with this data I probably could figure
20:19.54Ken-YoungI think the analemma may be the science figure that more people have seen and puzzled over, than any other.   Most globes used to print the analemma in the Pacific Ocean for some reason.
20:21.21Ken-YoungThe analemma very slowly changes over time, as the earth's orbit changes, and the pole precesses.   orrery properly calculates it for the year you select - that's why it's rather slow, it's doing a very careful calculation that retures nearly 3/4 of a million trig function calls.
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20:21.44Ken-Youngs/retures/requires/
20:22.49DocScrutinizer51heh, now I see why it took 2s to open :-D
20:25.07Ken-YoungI'm slowly converting the solar system calculations to the VSOP87 package, with is far more accurate than the eorbital elements (and derivitives of orbital elements) that I'm currently using to plot planets.   VSOP87 gives sub-arcsecond accuracy.
20:25.17DocScrutinizer51still tries to wrap his head around the analemma +/-afew minutes
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20:26.46Ken-YoungWith VSOP87, I can now do things like calculate the moment when a season starts with high accuracy.
20:26.47DocScrutinizer51well, if it's optified then I doubt there could be anything fishy in such a professionally done app
20:26.59Ken-YoungIt's optified.
20:27.44DocScrutinizer51you should post the link to vote ;-)
20:28.08Ken-Younghttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/orrery/3.2.3-1/
20:28.24ieatlinti suspect if women had pants with pockets, their key chains wouldn't be so damned huge
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20:31.49Ken-YoungThanks, Doc!
20:31.55DocScrutinizerKen-Young: go ahead :-D
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20:32.45DocScrutinizerthanks for the nice app :-)
20:33.07DocScrutinizervoting for it is the least I can do
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20:42.53DocScrutinizercheers and hooray for another killer app in extras :-D
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20:44.43GAN900Flickr stats information is bad for my health.
20:44.48Ken-YoungNow I have to update the wiki...
20:45.08GAN900Someone is searching for pictures of wazd on Google and ending up on my photostream.
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21:10.38Ken-YoungI can no longer take screenshots on my N900 by pressing CNTRL+SHIFT+P  this may have started when I downloaded the Community OS Update.   Has anyone else seen this problem?   Could someone else running the Community OS mods try to take a screenshot that way, to see if it still works for you?
21:11.18VenemoKen-Young: worked for me last time I checked
21:11.35Ken-YoungVenemo, After enabling Community OS?
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21:13.15VenemoKen-Young: if you are refferring to the community SSU, then yes
21:13.41GAN900Somebody needs to code up a rimshot applet.
21:13.50VenemoGAN900: what's rimshot?
21:14.00Ken-YoungVenemo, Yes, that's what I meant.   THanks for the info - I've probably messed up my box in some other way, then.
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21:14.57GAN900Venemo, the drum sequence that plays when somebody makes a stupid pun.
21:15.14GAN900bad duh-dump tssshh
21:15.29VenemoGAN900: :D
21:15.54VenemoGAN900: get me the sound effect and I may make you such a widget :P
21:16.50GAN900freesound.org must have something.
21:17.03Loveable_rougeany body help with queenbeecon command problem
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21:22.25VenemoDocScrutinizer: wanna test the new version of puzzle-master?
21:22.45DocScrutinizer51sure
21:23.54VenemoDocScrutinizer51: do you have libqtm-sensors and qt 4.7?
21:26.22DocScrutinizer51let's assume I have
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21:29.59Venemosorry, this crap connection disconnected me
21:30.08VenemoDocScrutinizer51: do you have libqtm-sensors and qt 4.7?
21:30.22DocScrutinizer51let's assume I have
21:31.55VenemoDocScrutinizer51: well then you should wait 5 minutes until I commit to git and upload a deb somewhere
21:32.38DocScrutinizer51well, what if I don't wait ? :-P
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21:33.37GAN900I thought gerbick quit.
21:35.19DocScrutinizer51GAN900: eh?
21:41.00GAN900DocScrutinizer51, he posted an "I'm leaving thread", yet he's still out typing up silliness.
21:41.03GAN900(Talk)
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21:41.23DocScrutinizer51haha
21:44.34GAN900"I quit" threads never made much sense to me.
21:46.59VenemoDocScrutinizer51: "well, what if I don't wait ? :-P" -> you can teleport here and try on my N900
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22:11.36VenemoDocScrutinizer51: okay, I finished the code cleanup and also pushed to Gitorious.
22:11.43VenemoDocScrutinizer51: now building the package
22:13.32VenemoDocScrutinizer51: this is a fresh scratchbox installation so it could take a while to install the dependencies :(
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22:34.00VenemoDocScrutinizer51: see http://venemo.net/puzzle-master_1.1.0_armel.deb
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22:34.50VenemoDocScrutinizer51: most notable changes are perf improvements and some bux fixes, plus it now remembers the images you select
22:35.41vi_did anyone see that dickbag trying to sell his 'optomise n900 script'?
22:36.01Venemovi_: no, why?
22:36.15vi_made me rofl all over my corn flakes
22:37.46Venemolol vi_
22:37.57Venemovi_: yeah, some guys are thinking they can sell crap :D
22:38.02DocScrutinizer51Venemo: to keep up the myth I never go sleep, I just answer 'I'll check it later'
22:38.41VenemoDocScrutinizer51: what? you never go to sleep! :P
22:38.54vi_doc doesnt sleep...he bides his time.
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22:48.55SpeedEvilFun - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VrZ4C9kkZvA#t=850s - how to snoop on your citezens!
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