IRC log for #maemo on 20101126

00:01.24pupnikPauly: perhaps you have found a bug
00:06.08Paulywant me take a screenshot?
00:07.02Paulybut the title of the page says ovi store coming soon.
00:07.26FIQ|n900double check your firmware version
00:07.34FIQ|n900@ settings @ about your device
00:09.09Pauly20.2010.36-2.002
00:09.21Paulyi know its pr1.3
00:09.30FIQ|n900yeah
00:09.35FIQ|n900it is
00:09.56Paulyovi store work with yours?
00:11.40FIQ|n900dunno, that icon has disappeared from my menu for some time
00:11.45FIQ|n900haven't cared
00:12.07Paulyshould be a browserf bookmark
00:12.36FIQ|n900ah, there
00:12.47FIQ|n900hm...
00:12.54FIQ|n900yep, working here
00:13.16Paulyuh oh maybe my phone is broke
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00:17.46comawhitePauly, did it turn into a paper weight?
00:18.12Paulyno i am currently on it
00:18.38Paulyim on the webchat on freenode on n900
00:18.56comawhiteah
00:20.29Paulyshould i restart it?
00:20.43Paulybut that would kill my battery
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00:24.52myuupaperweight app now on extra-devel?
00:25.15DocScrutinizeryeah, for 0.99$
00:25.29DocScrutinizeruninstaller: 199$
00:25.39myuulool
00:26.47DocScrutinizerI wonder how long that would survive on OVI, and how many sales actually
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02:23.12DocScrutinizerhm, frozen planet. That'd suggest the answer to my previous question is "rather long, 0"
02:24.34DocScrutinizeroops, if I tried to speak what I write I would hav noticed nobody ever says " That'd suggest " :-P
02:25.30derf"That suggests" is more idiomatic, but "That'd suggest" is not terrible.
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02:36.55DocScrutinizertry to speak it loud! Don't come and ask how to fix your tongue after that :-P
02:38.08DocScrutinizerfeels like a mix of australian bushman and arab
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02:40.01Ryuodjincan i ask if updating n900 to pr1.3 will cause it to lose all data?
02:40.30derfIt poses no problem for my tongue.
02:44.19DocScrutinizerRyuodjin: usually no data is lost when updating by OTA/SSU. Nevertheless a backup by using the backup app is strongly recommended. Also best this backup is stored to a uSD card rather than internal eMMC
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02:49.24pytherHello
02:49.34pytherI want to convert a mkv to watch on the N900
02:50.02pytherwhat would be a reasonable bitrate? THe wiki seems to suggest 300 at a scale of 352:208
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03:03.18ShadowJKh264 baseline, 800x480.. dunno bitrate, 2M perhaps?
03:04.29pytherShadowJK: ok cool, I actually found a handbrake file that should give me h264 baseline, so I'm trynig that
03:04.57nox-hm if n900 would be `fast enough' for h264 why isnt fennec's html5 webm stuff watchable?
03:06.01SpeedEvilThere is hardware accel
03:06.20DocScrutinizermaybe because fennec doesn't have DSP accelerated H.264?
03:06.34nox-ah hm
03:07.28ShadowJKAlso if it wants to blend stuff ontop of the video, the CPU requirements go up dramatically :)
03:10.43DocScrutinizerif it doesn't exploit the hardware multilayered video buffering that obviously is used in mediaplayer, then yes, this would kill much stronger CPUs
03:12.09ShadowJKThe "multilayered" stuff is more like two independent displays, and the video shines through a specific shade of black drawn on the usual display
03:13.09ShadowJKFlash wants to do alphablending, in rgb, ontop of the video, so even if the decode was hw accelerated, pulling the decoded picture back into the CPU and converting it to RGB is already probably using more CPU than playing it with the media player does in the first place :-)
03:13.16DocScrutinizerthat's what I meant, yes
03:14.16ShadowJKnvidia on x86 with the vdpau stuff has nice way to deal with that for subtitles and such
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04:00.21DocScrutinizerI'm sad I missed to start a N900 marathon with IRC on 8 chan over 3G, some 6h ago. Probably I could have reached a new record for battery live, given the fact the internets seem to have died. Solar activity?
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04:02.18DocScrutinizerSNOW :-(((
04:03.08DocScrutinizerok, the internets not dead, just frozen
04:03.21DocScrutinizer~howl
04:03.22infobotAROOOOOOOO!
04:03.56Dante_Jnot frozen in Brisbane, Australia
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04:05.12DocScrutinizermeh, you're upside down. Take care you're not falling off the ball
04:05.37Dante_Jenjoy the cold :p
04:05.47DocScrutinizer:-S
04:06.29pupnikmarp
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05:14.21Paulyhi
05:14.55Paulydoes any twitter app for n900 have scrollable homescreen widget?
05:15.03Paulythat yous know of
05:15.10Paulythank you
05:15.55Paulyoh btw i fixed my ovi store problem it was because of hide user agent
05:20.45pupniknice Pauly
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06:49.58ddhananji m getting com.nokia.package_manager.Error.OperationFailed while installing a package
06:50.01ddhananjany help?
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06:53.19psycho_oreosmessage not verbose enough
06:54.16psycho_oreosmaybe try installing by hand (apt-get) and see if there's any issues with installation, if not, its an issue with HAM then I suppose
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07:03.54slonopotamusrandom observation: passing --fast to flex produces parser that is ~10% faster
07:04.32RST38hslono: the main trouble is yacc/bison anyway
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07:07.16slonopotamus_meh.
07:07.18slonopotamus_RST38h: what trouble?
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07:08.02RST38hslono: performance, weird behavior (usually traceable to something you have done wrong though)
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07:10.12slonopotamus_Season significantly affects bison performance with winter feed intake and gain lower than the other three season
07:10.32slonopotamus_:D from "bison performance" google results
07:10.35meceslonopotamus_, good to know.
07:10.46RST38hehhehe
07:11.04meceI'll stock up on high energy food for my bisons
07:11.08meceerm bison
07:12.21slonopotamus_RST38h: well, i'll rephrase. adding --fast gives 10% performance gain to my flex+bison parsing thingie
07:12.37RST38haha
07:12.42slonopotamus_so raw flex gain might be even bigger
07:12.49RST38hchecks what the magicaloption actually does
07:13.48RST38hah, ok, it does not compress parsing tables then
07:14.20slonopotamus_yep, whole flex file grew from 70 to 100kb.
07:17.54slonopotamus_RST38h: actually, after some tests, real gain comes from the fact that it uses read instead of fread
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07:18.54RST38hinvoluntarily rotfls
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07:21.08DocScrutinizerchem|st: HIIIIILFE!
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07:25.15DocScrutinizerRST38h: wanna rotfl? --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883071&postcount=441 ff ff ff
07:25.25DocScrutinizerheaddesks
07:26.34meceDocScrutinizer, aaahah, I LOL'd
07:27.51MohammadAGplease take a stone LOL
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07:30.30RST38hDoc: This one wouldn't pass the Turing test, for sure.
07:31.39MohammadAGwhy does microB suck in terms of browserd reloading
07:31.57MohammadAGif browserd is restarted, it just sits there
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07:44.26khertan_Morning
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07:51.18yaccRST38h, beg pardon, I'm no problem :-P
07:51.48yaccAnyone got an idea how much traffic skype might be producing?
07:52.24Surfadepends
07:52.34Surfatypically not much
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07:54.16DocScrutinizer51haha
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08:00.30CableTwitchMorning :O)
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08:03.57Termanagood morning
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08:26.43crashanddiesup #maemo
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08:29.15MohammadAGmorning crashanddie
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08:34.12psycho_oreoshi crashanddie
08:34.18Pillumdoes psfreedom work with powerkernelv46?
08:34.38Pillumheard, it isnt working because of usb host mode
08:34.47khertan_Morning crashanddie
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08:36.00khertan_is really surprize by his old amd64 3200+ which is currently oc at 3.2Ghz : with only aircooling 55°C ... really good
08:37.21CableTwitchWhat heatsink, stock?
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08:38.44PillumMohammadAG: ?
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08:46.58MohammadAGdoes fcam work with stock 1.3 kernel?
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08:48.45JaffaMorning, all
08:49.20PillumMohammadAG: yes it does
08:49.45MohammadAGPillum, so the problem's with kernel-power, ty
08:49.50MohammadAGlooks at sources
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08:49.57psycho_oreosthere's a huge thread for it MohammadAG
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08:50.02psycho_oreoshang on lemme find it
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08:51.08psycho_oreosMohammadAG, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58899&page=4
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08:59.36sjkhow would i edit maemos dictionary (used when texting etc)? there are  a couple of strange entries in it
08:59.55jacekowskithat's probably user dictionary
09:01.01sjkwhere can I find it?
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09:04.59DocScrutinizer51theres an app for that
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09:08.58CableTwitchYou know, you can measure the latency between replies in coversations here in days, sometimes... XD
09:09.47phellarvCableTwitch: sssshhhh - We're busy doing nothing.
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09:10.43CableTwitchSo I noticed.
09:10.53CableTwitch(Please read the above in about an hours time)
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09:12.39Pillumlol
09:13.32sjkoh
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09:15.19Pillumwhat?
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09:21.03DocScrutinizer51better silence here than another idiot spam on tmo in one thread from one moron every 3 minutes
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09:22.49CableTwitchI dunno. I like people talking about stuff in here. I might learn things now and then :O)
09:23.57yaccWonder if anyone has measured how much skype in idle mode uses bandwidth?
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09:26.14yaccCableTwitch, latency of days can be quite normal on some irc channels. It's enough that the core members are all concentrated in one time zone, and during their night you won't get much of an answer.
09:26.20crashanddiestudy how long did it take you to as yoda speak?
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09:30.54Pillum@yacc bandwidth of skype is never constant
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09:32.05Pillumcause some things on skype are p2p
09:32.07Pillumlike chatting
09:32.14Pillumso
09:32.35Pillumits probable that your skype app will redirect other ones' messages
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09:37.55PillumMohammadAG: ?
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09:58.35Pillumsomeone here with powerv42 and not working camera?
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09:58.52TermanaIt did take me very long at all to learn how to speak like yoda crashanddie not.  Herh herh herh.
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10:03.11Pillumhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883645&postcount=410
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10:18.33chem|stpong
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10:18.54chem|stDocScrutinizer51: pong
10:19.30Pillumping
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10:20.28chem|stpong
10:20.41CableTwitchTwang
10:20.43PillumMARCOO!!!
10:20.59BCMM_how can i restart PA?
10:21.04PillumPA?
10:21.11FauxFauxPule.
10:21.12FauxFauxs
10:21.20CableTwitchPenny Arcade? Click on the button that takes you to the first comic.
10:21.52PillumPennsylvania?
10:21.54crashanddiepulseaudio is what he is talking about
10:21.56BCMM_pulseaudio
10:21.58crashanddienot stop being trolls
10:22.03chem|stBCMM_: pactl?
10:22.44BCMM_also, it's stupid, but i thing my sound probs. start when i boot up with the wallcharger plugged in
10:22.45CableTwitchTrolling is winding people up, not making silly comments ;O)
10:22.45chem|stBCMM_: killing it helps too as it should be on autostart
10:22.53BCMM_thanks
10:22.54Pillumpulseaudio -k; pulseaudio -D
10:23.06chem|st^^
10:23.25Pillum:O
10:23.42BCMM_uh, what is the daemon usually called?
10:23.47chem|stBCMM_: having stuff plugged in while booting seems to be a problem in some cases
10:23.54Pillumpulseaudio i think
10:23.55chem|stpulseaudio
10:23.57BCMM_cause i'm not sure it's running
10:24.03Pillumpulseaudio --check
10:24.29BCMM_Pillum: as root?
10:24.37Pillumduno
10:24.41chem|stBCMM_: no as pulse
10:24.48Pillum--check
10:24.48Pillum<PROTECTED>
10:25.07Pillumso pulseaudio --check; echo $?
10:25.25BCMM_chem|st: it runs as user pulse?
10:25.27chem|stBCMM_: ps fax shows me a usr/bin/pulseaudio running as pulse
10:25.36chem|stBCMM_: yes
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10:26.06BCMM_chem|st: bb's ps ignores parameters
10:26.29chem|stBCMM_: then top
10:26.34chem|stor htop
10:27.05chem|stwell then ps|grep pulse
10:27.09BCMM_when i'm the user pulse, it doesn't execute 'pulseaudio'
10:27.44BCMM_no perms
10:27.51chem|styou do not become pulse ... what for?
10:28.18chem|stjust kill the bastard and start any playback
10:28.28BCMM_chem|st: you sais i should run it as pulse...
10:28.39chem|stit runs as pulse automagically
10:28.44BCMM_chem|st: i can't kill it because it isn't running
10:29.02Pillumthen just start it again :D
10:29.03chem|stBCMM_: playback should make it start
10:29.16BCMM_it doesn't
10:29.19chem|stmmh
10:29.27BCMM_no audio anywhere
10:29.32Pillumthen do pulseaudio -D ?
10:29.34chem|stBCMM_: start it as user
10:29.46chem|st^^
10:29.49chem|stdaemoned
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10:30.07BCMM_i've tried making calls, using mediaplayer, mplayer, aplay, listening for the little window close noise and so on
10:30.11BCMM_nothing
10:30.27chem|stweird as it should be on autostart...
10:30.27PillumBCMM_: already started it via command line?
10:30.28BCMM_also, volume keys don't pop up the osd
10:30.37Pillumthen just reboot .D
10:30.37Pillum:D
10:30.53BCMM_Pillum: doesn't fix it. taking battery out does...
10:31.06BCMM_also, this keeps hapenning
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10:32.25chem|stBCMM_: then something is hanging up the hardware
10:33.31WhiteWidowinstalled custom pulse audio packages?
10:33.47BCMM_doing pulseaudio --system as root fixed it
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10:33.52BCMM_this is odd...
10:33.56chem|stok just trying like I would do on my desktop
10:34.20BCMM_i'm going to reboot and see what happens
10:34.26chem|stthis is fscking crazy what nokia did to maemo
10:34.53CableTwitch?
10:34.55BCMM_i recently installed a custom fmtxd and fmtx kernel mod, could that do this?
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10:37.52BCMMwell, this just gets weirder
10:38.00RobbieThe1st?
10:38.07BCMMrunning pulesaudio --system from the command line fixed it, as in it was still fixed after reboot
10:38.26BCMMnormally, i need to take the battery out to fix that...
10:38.54RobbieThe1stInteresting
10:39.42BCMMas far as i have observed so far: after i boot it once with the wall charger plugged in, this happens every boot until i either take hte battery out or run pulseaudio --system
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10:39.58BCMMdoes that make any sense at all to anyone?
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10:40.09BCMMah, this time a regular reboot fixed it
10:40.14BCMMso i don't know now
10:40.33BCMMi'm still pretty much sure it happens every time i boot up with the charger connected though, which is annoying
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10:58.35yaccPillum, yeah, but the moment I've changed from my G1 to the N900, my data usage has gone up by around 900MB. Before it was seldom over 100MB mobile data, now it's over 1GB month by month. And while the browser is better, so I surf more, it's mostly text-oriented stuff that would work fine in lynx, ...
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10:59.10yaccPillum, the only thing that I've got "more" on the N900 is Skype, ...
11:00.09yaccActually the N900 is nicer because it manages to reliably connect my WLAN here, and while working it routes through USB, so it should have a bit of less mobile traffic.
11:00.19chem|styacc: and automatic software update calling down 5-25MB everytime you login (depends on active repos)
11:00.38yaccchem|st, login?
11:00.56chem|stconnect to 3G internet
11:01.11yaccchem|st, I don't use the normal GUI, I prefer to do all my package management via apt.
11:01.26chem|styacc: "automatically"
11:01.36chem|styacc: not "userset"
11:01.52yaccchem|st, every time I connect to 3G internet? How do I disable that? Without removing the sources in /etc/apt?
11:02.09yaccI don't need any automatic apt-get update calls.
11:02.30yaccchem|st, OTOH, I use it mostly in 2G mode, to save battery.
11:02.54chem|styacc: anytime you connect to the internet once a day afair (does not matter if 2G 3G or wifi)
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11:03.23chem|styacc: gconftool -s –type=int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 60000
11:03.35yaccWell, 2G with 4KB/s max download does not manage more than 15MB/hour.
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11:03.47chem|styacc: the 60000 are minutes, there is no way to turn it off I know about
11:03.48PrimeZAnyone got n900?
11:04.27chem|stPrimeZ: nope noone in here got anything like that... wht was the question again?
11:04.48yaccchem|st, yeah I figured that 1440 looks like 24h expressed as minutes ;)
11:04.59chem|styacc: exactly
11:05.31chem|styacc: it is weird enough that it is minutes but not having an OFF key
11:05.54chem|stPrimeZ: what are you after?
11:06.49chem|styacc: and back in PR1.1.1 the delete button key value for mediaplayer was false...
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11:07.41yaccchem|st, Yeah we all use other maemo mobiles, that's why the channel is #maemo and not #n900 :-P
11:08.45chem|styacc: sure but it is obvious that the amount of n900 owners in here is >0 just from nicknames
11:09.15PrimeZchem|st: the n900 call volume is too low. Trying to see if there's a fix to it.
11:09.22PrimeZOr yet it seems another nokia failure
11:09.30yaccchem|st, Well, the amount of non-n900 users here is probably not that high.
11:09.34BCMMhmm seems OK to me
11:10.07chem|stPrimeZ: it is only the gsm call volume and that highly depends on your network and the other end
11:10.10BCMM(the call volume)
11:10.16PrimeZboth the call volume AND when activating the call speaker, which is nowhere near the ringtone volume.
11:10.35PrimeZchem|st: I have another nokia phone here with an incredible volume on both.
11:11.19chem|stPrimeZ: is the volume low in skype/sip/jabber or any other calling software
11:11.37PrimeZanywhere
11:11.44PrimeZskype/regular phone calls etc
11:12.02PrimeZthe 6131 i got here volumes are awesome
11:12.15chem|stmmh check your volumes in x-terminal
11:12.17PrimeZI guess its a hardware issue
11:12.22PrimeZchem|st: how?
11:12.36chem|stalsamixer for one
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11:12.50PrimeZhm
11:12.53PrimeZchecking
11:13.00chem|stpress TAB until you see all controls
11:13.34chem|stput them to 100%
11:13.52PrimeZnice
11:13.54PrimeZbut they are at 100
11:13.55PrimeZ:)
11:14.12chem|stPrimeZ: yeah that is expected
11:14.43PrimeZshit, now after googled, i guess its game over
11:14.43PrimeZ:p
11:14.46PrimeZeveryone complains about it
11:14.50PrimeZcoplainED
11:15.04PrimeZold threads
11:15.24chem|stPrimeZ: not exactly, I have only issues with gsm and that depends on the other end as well as on which network I am calling to
11:18.36PrimeZlol i see people disassmble the n900 to increase the volume, omfg
11:19.00PrimeZtaking open source to the hardware levels
11:19.00PrimeZ:D
11:21.26MohammadAGsigh Nov 26 13:13:03 Nokia-N900 init: pulseaudio main process (1104) terminated with status 127
11:21.36MohammadAGis there any way to debug that shit?
11:21.43lollooI get buzzing sounds when calling, do you think it's hardware or software?
11:21.55chem|stMohammadAG: not that I know
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11:22.18chem|stMohammadAG: do you knwo how to get some sink info out of pulse?
11:22.30MohammadAGnope lol
11:23.26chem|stMohammadAG: it is so damn hard to figure things out with all these stripped tools
11:24.43chem|ston a desktop the user in group pulse is able to configure, on maemo I get for most control stuff "no pulse running" reply
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11:28.25yaccWorse, anyone got an idea why my n900 does not ring (phone, alarm clock, calendar alerts), but it beeps fine on IM messages (and last time I checked played fine music)?
11:29.16chem|sthttp://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode
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11:31.07chem|stjust checked it is not normal to have it as gloabl service and I do not have it on my desktop that way, the pulse group is just to be abel to start pulse I guess
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11:31.42chem|st"much higher memory usage and CPU load in system mode"
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11:33.05yaccchem|st, yeah, I wondered about that too. CPU okay, it seems fast enough, but memory? On a memory starved device like the n900?
11:33.34chem|stwould be interesting how that compares to a proper usersetup with pulse
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11:34.17chem|styacc: that system mode is for embedded systems or thin clients where no real local user exists
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11:35.23yaccchem|st, well, we do have one "proper" (or not, don't get philosophical about that) user, Mr. "user" ;)
11:35.43yaccwonder what would happen if I rename the user and move the $HOME, ...
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11:37.13BCMMmaybe they said "fsck security", and patched it so it didn't disable shared memory?
11:37.33BCMMi don't know whether that's better or worse than saying "fsck performance" on an embedded device
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11:40.33kerioyou should say "fuck those morons, let's have performance *and* security"
11:41.32chem|stBCMM: both security measures are off by default
11:41.57chem|stpulse gives a warning that they arent set when starting on CLI
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11:42.30BCMMchem|st: not sure i understand - PA website says they are forced disabled in system mode
11:46.57alteregoyawns
11:46.58chem|stBCMM: and nokia managed to enable to have an easy access to pull things around wether being root user or anyone else
11:47.19BCMMnow i really don't understand...
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11:51.02chem|stBCMM: module loading should be disallowed or even forced to be disabled but it isn't on my n900 so nokia people managed to enable stuff which used to be disabled (forced or not)
11:51.50chem|stbut they did not remove the check part for it so pulse complains about those active modules on startup
11:51.56alteregoPart of the open platform that is maemo :P
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11:53.05BCMMah, so they broke pulseaudio's security a bit
11:53.16BCMMwithout removing the warnings?
11:56.31chem|stat least it looks alike
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12:02.37dazoAnyone had issues with Media Player not finding songs after flashing to PR-1.3? ... I have quite a collection of songs, in mp3, mp4 and ogg ... it worked very fine before, but after flashing and installing OGG support again, none of my songs are found any more - only the "demo songs" and songs on my SD card
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12:09.22chem|stMohammadAG: do you know where the actual volume values are stored?
12:09.57MohammadAGchem|st, you can get them with dbus i think
12:10.17chem|stMohammadAG: and set them with dbus I guess
12:10.32MohammadAGi know how to set them  :P
12:10.36MohammadAGsec
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12:10.55alteregoHrm, how can I detect when my app is switched into background?
12:11.00chem|stMohammadAG: I'd like to read all volumes
12:11.02MohammadAGdbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:100
12:11.05MohammadAGfor 100
12:11.22chem|stMohammadAG: thats percent then
12:11.55chem|stMohammadAG: and gstr, I am looking for the sink volumes of pulse
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12:12.32chem|stMohammadAG: as it seems that they are not set to a proper value
12:13.44PrimeZ<PROTECTED>
12:13.45PrimeZ:D
12:13.47PrimeZteh iphone 4
12:13.52MohammadAGalterego, isn't a dbus signal sent?
12:13.57PrimeZthats my the conclusion i reached 1 hour ago
12:13.57PrimeZ:p
12:14.05*** join/#maemo blackthorne (~blackthor@unaffiliated/blackthorne)
12:14.11alteregoMohammadAG: don't know.
12:14.32PrimeZsince 3g, nokia has been an epic failure, and now with the touch.
12:14.48blackthornewhat is the required apt-get repository for zip/unzip tools?
12:15.49yaccPrimeZ, well, actually I'm quite happy, you can see how critical phone communication is to me by the fact that I've ignored this little fault for over a week without trying to figure it out ;)
12:17.04chem|stPrimeZ: iphone is not a good phone; however, it is a good dog leash
12:17.04PrimeZwell i thought the nokia was good
12:17.09PrimeZuntill i saw my friend iphone 4
12:17.16PrimeZwhich does everything the n900 can, but better
12:17.18PrimeZfar better
12:17.21*** join/#maemo andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre)
12:17.39yaccPrimeZ, the N900 is clearly way nearer to my idea of a perfect phone than more "normal" phones where I have first to root them or jailbrake them to own them, which I understand as my right as I've been buying fullprice phones for years now.
12:17.42PrimeZdid u see the gps on google map? fast and super clean user experience.
12:17.45PrimeZthe ui is amazing.
12:18.24PrimeZyacc: apple brought jailbreak on themselves, either way, after a small modification, the iphone is clearly far superior to the n900
12:18.31yaccPrimeZ, and an iPhone is not even a contender as I need to switch SIMs between different countries.
12:18.32blackthornePrimeZ: I really like the iPhone 4 but no, it doesn't everything the n900 can
12:18.33BCMMPrimeZ: it can not do everything the n900 can do.
12:18.44PrimeZorly?
12:18.45BCMMPrimeZ: for example, it won't run stuff i wrote.
12:18.57blackthorneBCMM: you can, though
12:19.10BCMM(without occasionally bricking during a routing update)
12:19.14BCMMand i like programming!
12:19.15blackthornePrimeZ: you can't do this: python
12:19.15*** part/#maemo rmoravcik (~rmoravcik@gtsgw.ttc.cz)
12:19.24yaccPrimeZ, the jailbroken iPhone of my wife for example does not to tethering. The N900 does tethering in practically all thinkable setups.
12:19.26PrimeZBCMM: you see this specific trait of the n900 is for an ultra low % of people that actually wanna run thier own apps.
12:19.37BCMMPrimeZ: well, that's not everything
12:19.37chem|stPrimeZ: you just got marked as apple fanboy, and as long as iphone is more a style gadget than a useful item it will be for guys without balls only
12:19.42BCMMPrimeZ: the iphone is not for geeks
12:19.44blackthornePrimeZ: flash, you don't run flash better in your iPhone 4
12:19.57BCMMthis channel is probably primarily geeks, and i think you are intentionally trolling them
12:20.09blackthornePrimeZ: flash is not such a geeky thing...
12:20.12BCMMfcam is pretty cool as well
12:20.20chem|stPrimeZ: export your iphones gps as BT serial device?!
12:20.22BCMMcan you do that sort of low-level camera control on an iphone?
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12:20.52BCMMthe main thing the iphone is missing is something like "cool stuff it wasn't designed for"
12:20.56BCMMit's hard to hack.
12:21.03yaccPrimeZ, and I don't think that the iPhone can compete on the browser front either, considering that it cannot do flash at all, I think 10 of the top 10 brands in the US have a website that is not viewable by an iPhone ;)
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12:22.26Choom1[6~
12:23.14PrimeZI dont consider myself a super geek, but im working as a java programmer
12:23.25PrimeZbut i dont see myself going into the x terminal with my n900 too often
12:23.33chem|stmost iphone friends I have live at facebook and are easy target for identity theft ;)
12:23.39blackthornePrimeZ: you can't replace your iphone's battery
12:24.02PrimeZblackthorne: yea that i know, but there are those 3rd world stores that can do it :)
12:24.11BCMMPrimeZ: iphone can't port scan wireless networks
12:24.16yaccPrimeZ, nor does the iPhone tuxpaint, which made my N900 quite popular with my daughter, but then my daughter has loved tuxpaint since being a toddler.
12:24.17BCMM(talking of the terminal)
12:24.19blackthorneI mean, you can't carry 2 batteries with you
12:24.25chem|stPrimeZ: then it is the wrong phone for you...
12:24.32chem|stPrimeZ: wanna sell yours?
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12:24.49PrimeZchem|st: im looking for an iphone
12:24.54PrimeZbut cant find a proper price for it
12:24.55chem|stblackthorne: there are mobile chargers
12:24.59blackthornePrimeZ: the things they in common, iPhone 4 tends to be better from the user perspective but there are a lot of things beyond that the iPhone 4 can't even do
12:25.03PrimeZsince i live in a half third world country
12:25.03PrimeZ:D
12:25.18PrimeZIf I lived in the US i had most certainly get the iphone
12:25.20PrimeZsince its only like 500$
12:25.24chem|stPrimeZ: 950eur iP4 32GB?!
12:25.27PrimeZthe UI is unmatched
12:25.29blackthornechem|st: chargers? you mean those solar toys?
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12:25.32yaccPrimeZ, and hint, the iPhone does use up battery as any other smartphone when you "power-use" it.
12:25.41BCMMPrimeZ: hang on, where is half third world, but isn't the US?
12:25.46PrimeZisrael
12:25.46PrimeZ:P
12:25.49chem|stblackthorne: no mobile batteries
12:25.51PrimeZat the moment
12:26.13chem|styacc: dead in 3.5h
12:26.14BCMMi would call the n900 a computer
12:26.19BCMMi would not say the same for an iphone
12:26.19PrimeZit is
12:26.37yaccPrimeZ, so one of the critical items on my checklist is not even feasible is "having an external charger that can charge the 2nd (or 3rd) battery pack without the phone".
12:27.04blackthornechem|st: well yes, it's not as good considering the volume and the price. Other thing, you may have to throw away your ipod/iphone if the battery dies not as easy as replacing a battery in the n900
12:27.15BCMMthe iphone is a better fit for you than the n900 if the iphone is a better fit for you than a full computer
12:27.41chem|stblackthorne: true, didn't throw on that ;)
12:27.57chem|stBCMM: wrong way around
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12:28.21chem|stif the iphone is a good gadget for you the n900 is the wrong to even look at
12:28.39yaccPrimeZ, then the lack of a physical keyboard, which is important to me. But the closed-ness of the iOS ecosystem is a show stopper. I will not let Mr. Jobs dictate what I can do on a phone that I bought.
12:28.45BCMMwhat i meant was that the iphone is an easy but somewhat limited experience. you'll prefer it to an n900 if you also prefer it to using a proper computer
12:29.04chem|stthe only thing I am missin here is a magnetic-compass
12:29.26BCMMyeah
12:29.35BCMMthere is that
12:29.41yaccPrimeZ, can the iPhone access the internet via USB? Can I remote control it from the PC via VNC?
12:29.58chem|styacc: we can stop now...
12:30.03BCMM(does hostmode work well enough for us to troll iphone users with it yet?)
12:30.06chem|stthis discussion is pointless
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12:30.14chem|stBCMM: yes
12:30.19BCMMhave you seen the compass in gpxview?
12:30.20yaccBCMM, with the power user kernel I think so.
12:30.21Termanayacc, ACTUALLY it can
12:30.26BCMMnice workaround for lack of a magnetic compas
12:30.32yaccTermana, ?
12:30.42BCMMit shows you a compass with north, your target, and the position of the sun on it
12:30.50TermanaMaybe you should actually think about what your saying before trying to be a smart arse and talk like an idiot
12:31.05chem|stBCMM: very good at night on a boat where your gps just died
12:31.10TermanaThe iPhone can access internet over USB and you can control it with a PC with VNC
12:31.10BCMMheh
12:31.42TermanaI'll admit, you need to jailbreak to gain this functionality
12:31.46TermanaBut it is there
12:31.53BCMMchem|st: not sure what you mean about the gps dieing, the n900 has gps
12:32.07chem|stBCMM: the on-boat one
12:32.10yaccTermana, the USB thing might be feasible, but then it uses non-standard protocols for USB, so I cannot even USB-tether it with my Linux laptop. And Linux is where I earn my money.
12:32.11BCMMoh ok
12:32.18BCMMboat is a perfect example of where you don't need a magnetic compass, since you are in constant forwards motion
12:32.37chem|stBCMM: actually no
12:32.48RST38h1
12:32.54BCMMoh, currents could cause you to move sideways, yeah
12:32.55yaccTermana, and jailbreaking phones are so compatible with itunes and small kids that are Windows-trained and press "yes" or "ok" on every dialog without thinking.
12:33.32chem|stI am at a mooring and turning slightly I quickly need the direction for land as it is dark as hell... just one use case
12:33.37BCMMbut at any rate, in a boat that's actually moving, you will be able to see the vector you are following, and correct it
12:33.40chem|stmovement is less then 5m per minut
12:33.41yaccTermana, my wife loved that one, because I made her jailbreak her phone herself, OTOH, she survived for almost 2 weeks without a mobile before managing that feat ;)
12:33.58BCMMchem|st: yeah, a magnetic compass is useful really
12:34.22chem|stindeed
12:34.23Termanayacc, I'm not even sure what you just tried to say, it makes no grammatical sense
12:34.31TermanaRST38h, 2
12:35.05chem|stTermana: jailbrake does not count as you may put another OS on it if capable of the coding
12:35.06yaccTermana, jailbreaking an iPhone is a way more stressy procedure than installing openssh-server via the Application Manager app.
12:35.39yaccTermana, there are people that managed to put Android on a iPhone, so what? It's still first playing cat and mice with the manufacturer.
12:35.50yaccTermana, that's not a way to treat me as a customer.
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12:36.44BCMMyeah, i don't think anything that will make the manufacturer attempt to brick your device can be used when arguing for your device's usefullness
12:37.01yaccTermana, well, when my wife's iPhone was un-jailbroken by iTunes because our daughter was at the PC, I refused to jailbreak it for her, and she had to google herself through seedy sites to jailbreak it.
12:37.03Termanayacc, well, I've done two iPod Touches I have laying around (somewhere), and it didn't really seem "stressy". I plugged them in and hit a button, waited for it to finish and reboot.
12:37.18Termanayacc, right that makes more sense.
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12:37.50chem|stTermana: the point is that you need to jailbrake it to have some use of it
12:37.50Termanayacc, In regards to the lock down, you realise even Nokia will be doing this in the future?
12:37.53yaccTermana, not really my observation, my wife lived without a mobile for over a week till she managed to find her way ;)
12:38.29yaccTermana, how so? They had the first smartphones? I could program my old Nokia E61 with Python.
12:39.23chem|stand nokia will use meego in the future now tell how that will lock down devices (I am really curious!)
12:39.27Termanayacc, locked down as in, you change your kernel you won't access data, certain apps etc.
12:39.30yaccTermana, well, they might, they probably will do it for some of their phones. But the others are doing things to make it extra hard on their customers today.
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12:39.49SpeedEvilBeing able to run your own programs on it is not quite the same as not bein glocked down.
12:40.19Termanachem|st, that's a silly thing to say. Android is open as well, but Android phones are locked down.
12:40.26yaccTermana, You mean like certain Motorola Androids that brick themselves in hardware when you do one thing wrong during "rooting" them?
12:40.28Termana(most) Android phones*
12:40.46Termanayacc, yes and then looks at some techniques other manufactures are using
12:40.48TermanaNAND lock
12:40.54TermanaWiping NAND caches
12:41.05Termanalook*
12:41.09chem|stok that is another class for itself
12:41.13CorsacTermana: there's a large chance that meego phones will be locked as well
12:41.20yaccTermana, Well, my G1 was not locked down, and I would not accept a locked down phone. Funny not even my wife finds a locked phone acceptable after enjoying Apple's take on customer friendliness.
12:41.35TermanaCorsac, <Termana> yacc, In regards to the lock down, you realise even Nokia will be doing this in the future?
12:41.40chem|stwell I got my n900 and as long there is hardware there will be someone to code for it ;)
12:41.53CorsacTermana: do we have confirmation that Nokia will do it?
12:42.06TermanaCorsac, Nokia said they will if carriers ask them to
12:42.13Corsacok
12:42.23TermanaConfirmation for the Harmattan device at least - beyond that, who knows I suppose
12:42.35*** join/#maemo FireFly|n900 (~n900@unaffiliated/firefly)
12:42.53CorsacI'm not really sure what harmattan means nowadays anyway :)
12:43.05Termanayacc, unless you got a Developer's Phone direct from Google, your G1 WAS locked down
12:43.07yaccTermana, basically a closed toy-device cannot compete with a serious work phone, which in my case means that I can tether through it in less than 1h after unpacking it. (that's the roaming freelancer in me, that's a hard requirement).
12:43.46yaccTermana, well, yes it was locked down but after unlocking it once, I was never bothered again by iTunes trying to break it for me.
12:44.06DocScrutinizerchem|st:  could you move a few posts?
12:44.17Termanayacc, iTunes would have updated the iPhone. If you had done an OTA update for the G1 it would break it as well
12:44.18yaccTermana, and I could have gotten an ADP1 as easily it would have been just more expensive.
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12:45.24yaccTermana, but yes, nobody tries to force an update on me. iTunes has a tendency to ask nicely for that. And if you plug it in to a 3rd party PC with installed itunes, ...
12:47.08chem|stDocScrutinizer: sure
12:47.15blackthornehow do I add the extras-testing repository ?
12:47.21Termanayacc, right, plugging the iPhone into another person's computer is not a good idea - that's a problem. Problems are good to identify and point out to show advantages of one thing over another, but talking about something untruthfully doesn't.
12:47.34BCMMwhat happens if you do?
12:47.57TermanaBCMM, AFAIK an iPhone can only sync with one computer
12:48.14Termanaso it will delete all your music, possibly apps and sync to that person's music etc.
12:48.24chem|stblackthorne: same as extras but with -testing in the web address
12:48.29BCMMwhat does sync mean? does that mean you can't just use it as mass storage?
12:48.32yaccTermana, basically an iPhone is not relevant because it does not allow by default to put any SIM into it. It does not allow tethering by default. The whole jailbreaking experience is fragile, e.g. some versions of the jailbreak rely on the PC to do it every time it starts. Fun if you run out of battery traveling, ...
12:49.08yaccTermana, well, I had my VNC setup on my n900 on day 1. I've never read or seen a VNC setup for an iPhone.
12:49.08TermanaBCMM, you could if you killed the iTunes daemon I suppose. iTunes runs a daemon in the background to detect iPhones, and automatically starts when you plug one in
12:50.01Termanayacc, your first point is US based only. I can get an off-contract iPhone here in Australia that will work with any carrier here.
12:50.05yaccTermana, plus there is always that funny problem, that Apple seems to have no working download links for Linux iTunes :)
12:50.17Termanayacc, but I know VNC works
12:50.29yaccTermana, you cannot get it in Austria.
12:50.42TermanaAustraLIA
12:50.44yaccTermana, you cannot get it without a special iPhone plan in Austria to be exactly.
12:50.53yaccTermana, Austria != Australia, I know.
12:51.10Termanayacc, oh I see, your in Austria? sorry :p
12:51.30TermanaTripped me up for a second there
12:51.45chem|stTermana: don't tell you do not know the "No Kangaroos in Austria" flaw at G20...
12:51.46yaccTermana, but again, an iPhone seems to need iTunes to activate at all. No Linux iTunes, so it's not feasable for to use it. Simple?
12:52.25Termanayacc, in regards to iTunes for Linux - I think Apple would probably rather ignore Linux because they would see it as a potential threat
12:52.42yaccTermana, yeah I know, it was funny 20 years ago when some US border guards in North Dakota of all places kept us for hours because they mistook our Austrian passports for badly forged Australian ones.
12:52.54yaccTermana, yeah, so basically iPhones are not being offered to me.
12:53.31Termanachem|st, I didn't until now :p
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12:53.50chem|stTermana: http://202.58.40.60/elements/img/article/638x359/skynews_537774.jpg
12:53.51yaccTermana, I can easily use an Android as a Linux user. The n900 shines in that role. Emporer Jobs dictates to me which OS I should use to do my work?
12:54.48chem|stTermana: they put up figures of all prime ministers with a stereo type clothing and put the australian one in a red white austria "tracht"
12:54.56Termanachem|st, heh :p
12:55.14crashanddiedon't feed the troll
12:55.19crashanddieyacc, take your trash outside
12:55.28yaccTermana, btw, Nokia S60 works perfectly with Linux too.
12:55.38*** join/#maemo arno0ob (~arno0ob@nor75-19-82-244-51-6.fbx.proxad.net)
12:55.46Termanachem|st, I didn't think our international communications were that bad :p
12:55.56nidOtbh s60 works well at pretty much everything except being pretty
12:58.02DocScrutinizerohhh, Friday?
12:58.25nidOindeed, day off \o/
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12:58.36yaccTermana, it's like comparing buying and owning a car (where you can do everything that is legal with your property) versus renting a car or carsharing (where you are basically only a tenant and your landlord decides many things that can be done or not done).
12:59.28blackthornemy friend the acquired an n900 two days ago
12:59.32blackthornealready screwed it up
12:59.39blackthornewith the kernel extras package, I think
13:00.20blackthornethe new SMS message opened prepopulated with "random" data
13:00.53blackthorneother than that
13:00.58ShadowJKwhy the hell are newbies installing extra kernel packages
13:01.19blackthornehe restored factory defaults
13:01.24blackthorneand then... brick
13:01.38blackthorneturns on the device, sees the Nokia logo
13:01.41blackthornejust that
13:03.27yaccblackthorne, well, than he needs to reflash it.
13:03.38blackthornethat's what I told him
13:03.46blackthornethough I am newbie too
13:03.52blackthornejust have it for one day
13:05.31blackthornestill looking for zip/unzip tools and a decent twitter client for this
13:08.37crashanddieblackthorne, khweeteur works
13:09.02MohammadAGFCam Error: V4L2Sensor: Error opening /dev/video0: Device or resource busy
13:09.09MohammadAGdoes anyone know what that means?
13:09.52javispedroebusy :)
13:10.20MohammadAGobviously :P
13:10.39MohammadAGit works fine on my device, but not on a friend's
13:10.49javispedrocamera app open?
13:10.52DocScrutinizerdamn, my spyware didn't free the frontcam
13:10.55javispedrouse fuser or lsof to check
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13:13.35*** join/#maemo peb (~peb@p579D467E.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:13.54pebHi folks ..
13:14.16DocScrutinizerlo
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13:17.31blackthornecrashanddie: lists support ? dual account?
13:17.51crashanddiesorry?
13:18.03blackthornekhweeteur
13:18.30crashanddieno idae
13:18.59blackthornemaybe it's going to be my first n900 project
13:19.03blackthornea decent twitter client
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13:23.17DocScrutinizerwhat's thp's taskswitcher patch?
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13:30.01thpDocScrutinizer: the hildon-desktop patch for having bigger thumbnails in the switcher?
13:30.26thphttp://thp.io/2010/maemo/hd-single_column_layout.png
13:30.32DocScrutinizermhm
13:31.01thpyou'll find the patches at http://thp.io/2010/maemo/
13:31.18thp(the "big-task-switcher" one)
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13:32.11DocScrutinizerthanks
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13:34.41yaccAny idea how came that the settings app cannot access audio, despite that pulse is running fine?
13:35.00DocScrutinizererrr
13:35.11DocScrutinizerwhy should settings app access audio?
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13:37.59yaccCan anyone with a working sound do a ls -l /proc/*/fd/* | grep /dev/snd and privmsg it to me?
13:38.19yaccDocScrutinizer: Well I try to set a different ring tone, ...
13:38.53yaccDocScrutinizer: Actually I'm interested to figure out why my phone does not ring, while not on silent profile, and with a volume set that should be hearable.
13:39.27DocScrutinizerI'd guess one of your extras-devel pkgs is acting up
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13:40.25DocScrutinizerlrwx------ 1 root      root      64 2010-11-26 14:39 /proc/760/fd/3 -> /dev/snd/controlC0
13:40.26DocScrutinizerlrwx------ 1 pulse     pulse     64 2010-11-26 14:39 /proc/798/fd/18 -> /dev/snd/controlC0
13:41.10yaccDocScrutinizer: let me guess ps | grep 760 gives you some alsa named process, and 798 is pulseaudio
13:42.55DocScrutinizerlrn2ask :-P
13:43.00DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# lsof /dev/snd/controlC0
13:43.01DocScrutinizerCOMMAND   PID  USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME
13:43.03DocScrutinizeralsaped   760  root    3u   CHR  116,0      1742 /dev/snd/controlC0
13:43.04DocScrutinizerpulseaudi 798 pulse   18u   CHR  116,0      1742 /dev/snd/controlC0
13:44.01MohammadAGyacc, pulseaudio not started?
13:44.05MohammadAGit's fucking annoying me
13:44.21yaccMohammadAG, it's started but even mediaplayer refuses to play anything.
13:44.28MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what kernel are you on?
13:44.42yaccActually it beeps that it cannot do it.
13:44.43DocScrutinizerpr1.2 stock
13:44.44MohammadAGI'm thinking kernel-power's causing problems with pulseaudio
13:44.55yaccMohammadAG, I'm on stock kernel too.
13:45.05yaccLinux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown
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13:46.01alteregoMohammadAG: fixed columbus to suspened UI updates when in background or screen locked now, so your battery issue shouldn't be a problem anymore ;)
13:46.14alteregoMohammadAG: fancy being one of my beta testers next week?
13:46.23DocScrutinizeralterego: \o/
13:46.30yaccIs there one process that I can kill so that the whole user interface restarts?
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13:47.01DocScrutinizerhildon-desktop?
13:47.10MohammadAGalterego, yay, sure :)
13:47.16MohammadAGnope
13:47.25MohammadAGyou need to killall hildon*
13:47.49DocScrutinizerduh
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13:48.22alteregoDocScrutinizer: I'll put you on the list too ;)
13:48.28DocScrutinizerfeel tempted to google hildon
13:48.30alteregoI've got three people, should probably be enough.
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13:48.35alterego4 inc me.
13:49.15lcukalterego, open source, open testing?
13:49.23alteregoclosed source, closed testing :P
13:50.11alteregoBut I like you, and you've been benificial, so you can be a tester too if you like ;)
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13:59.42yaccDocScrutinizer: could you do again a ps for me? Is it normal to have two hildon-status-menu, hildon-home and hildon-desktop running?
14:00.05yaccGuess so, the pids are always N and N+1, so I guess all these do internally fork.
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14:02.02DocScrutinizeryes
14:03.28yaccSo control-panel still says it cannot play because something else is using the device, ...
14:04.40Shapeshifterman it's annoying that people always put their guides in some random forum thread instead of editing the wiki...
14:05.03Shapeshifterthis is a problem so specific to the maemo 'community'.
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14:06.47MohammadAGopens thread about pulseaudio on tmo, expects no replies
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14:09.51MohammadAGShapeshifter, indeed
14:11.50BCMMShapeshifter: yeah, i was surprised by how much it seems to revolve around the forum
14:12.08DocScrutinizeryacc: I guess you rebooted?
14:12.22BCMMwhen every other project i pay attention to has something like an IRC channel, a wiki, and a bugzilla
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14:14.02DocScrutinizerBCMM: wiki and IRC are not exactly troll compatible
14:14.29BCMMdo you mean aren't troll-proof, or aren't good for trolling?
14:14.46DocScrutinizerbugzilla in fact kinda is, but there's a harsh moderation :-P
14:15.02yaccDocScrutinizer: nope, but now I'm completely baffled because the phone app can access the sound devices to make a call.
14:15.10DocScrutinizerI mean trolls don't like them
14:15.38DocScrutinizeryacc: praise PA
14:15.52yaccIn "unsupported" system-mode ;)
14:16.11yaccSo Nokia took that on them to support themselves, but yes, PA is usually a PITA.
14:16.12DocScrutinizerI get lags of up to WEEKS(!!) for desktop event sounds, on my PA enabled laptop
14:16.28yaccWEEKS?
14:17.12BCMMDocScrutinizer: what?
14:17.22BCMMyou mean it actually plays a sound several weeks later?
14:17.42DocScrutinizernot several but more than 7 days sometimes, yes
14:17.53yaccDocScrutinizer: wow
14:19.01yaccDocScrutinizer: Although when I send a SMS once to a collegue in Australia, he got it 2 weeks later too. (And came online in emergency mode because the SMS alerted him to the fact that the production servers are down. Well had been down two weeks earlier).
14:19.26DocScrutinizerhehe
14:19.29alteregoHeh
14:20.23DocScrutinizeryeah, there's no guaranteed time to delivery for SMS
14:20.50DocScrutinizerthere's just a timeOUT you can set for SMS
14:21.15DocScrutinizerSMS never meant to be a realtime thing, just like mail
14:21.35yaccDocScrutinizer: yeah, although there is a "timeout" functionality, where you can set how long delivery trials should be done. OTOH, most modern phones do not know how to set this property.
14:22.04DocScrutinizer:nod: :-/
14:22.21alteregoBloody apt-worker ruining my development.
14:22.40DocScrutinizereh?
14:22.54DocScrutinizeris it rewriting your code?
14:23.15alteregoNo, stops me installing my packages.
14:23.29DocScrutinizer:-P
14:23.48DocScrutinizerheuristic QA
14:24.34DocScrutinizerdoes it install a "****" icon instead?
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14:26.40DocScrutinizerponders a patch to HAM that replaces random installs by installing a ">>BEEP<<" pkg instead :-D
14:29.32DocScrutinizerduh, and my paperweight app for OVI needs some work :-D
14:30.24DocScrutinizerfeeling so Friday. Any other BS to invent?
14:32.02alteregoHeh
14:32.11DocScrutinizermaybe a server with a blacklist holding (user, regex) tuples, for HAM to look up for user names that aren't allowed to install packages matching regex. Mad usefull to deal with tmo lemmings
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14:32.30BCMMhehe
14:32.40alteregoWhere does HAM get usernames from though? :P
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14:33.20DocScrutinizerthat's the trick
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14:33.42chem|stmaehehhe I think I am in need of some new soldering coil for smd... one volume button does not work not even after proper cleaning
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14:33.52DocScrutinizermessaging, mail, a few other config data to skim
14:34.12CableTwitchYou knackered your volume rocker?
14:34.36alteregoI should probably come up with a better way to store GPS telemetry ..
14:34.36chem|stCableTwitch: 0.5L wheat-beer-coke mix direct hit
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14:35.13CableTwitchWow. Are you competing with MohammadAG to see who can wreck their device fastest? ;O)
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14:35.59CableTwitch(I'm winning, btw... I'll be on my 3rd when it gets back from the Nokia Wrecking Shop)
14:36.02alteregoActually, maybe I Don't.
14:36.22BCMMalterego: better than what?
14:36.46alteregoWell, I've created a TelemetryModel which inherits QAbstractTableModel
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14:37.00alteregoWhich basically stores positional information in a QList
14:37.03chem|stCableTwitch: my first... no scratch no nothing but a glass of beer in 11month...
14:38.00chem|stCableTwitch: and I am not that carefull but my last phone survived 3 years without a scratch on the display and I opened up bottles with it
14:38.26alteregoI should do some load tests ..
14:38.40CableTwitchSee, opening bottles with an N900? Thats not a good thing to be doing ;O)
14:40.02chem|stCableTwitch: it survived the beer attack pretty good, first the display was always on then the button started to tinker and so on everything back to normal but a few days ago the button refused to work anymore
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14:40.26BCMMalterego: also, what are you using telemetry for?
14:40.35BCMMare you building an n900-based UAV?
14:41.00alteregoBCMM: storing positional and lock information for rendering to my widgets.
14:41.08alteregoLike the trackview
14:41.19alteregoAnd the accuracy graph.
14:41.26chem|stCableTwitch: I was thinking of modifying the back with a hardened aluminium frame to have it as universal bottle opener (actual idea was a plug'n'play carmount but that looks just like a bottleopener)
14:41.28alteregoBasically all the widgets that display historical information :P
14:41.30BCMMalterego: are you using a different meaning of telemetry than i expect?
14:41.39BCMMchem|st: i choose to read that as "bear attack"
14:41.48chem|stehehe
14:41.51alteregoBCMM: probably.
14:42.01alteregoI'm talking about GPS positional data.
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14:42.30BCMMalterego: telemetry would usually be remote collection of data
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14:42.31chem|stBCMM: once I got the replacement I may try the wheely and after that the bear attack
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14:42.36CableTwitch"Modify the bear attack"...
14:42.52BCMMalterego: e.g. GPS position of a scientific balloon or something
14:42.53alteregoBCMM: yes, you're right.
14:43.05alteregoBCMM: I do stream over UDP or TCP/IP ;)
14:43.12BCMMchem|st: wouldn't an aluminium backplate wear down the other bit of the plastic body where it made contact?
14:43.27alteregoBut yes, this is a local issue.
14:43.28BCMMalterego: you're turning the n900 into a GPS bug?
14:43.53alteregoBCMM: no my app can just be used as a bluetooth or network connected GPS.
14:44.02BCMMi think i see
14:44.07alteregoIt has that capability built on top of its' data logging.
14:44.10alterego(logs to file too)
14:44.20BCMMoh, you could use the n900 like a bluetooth GPS adaptor for a PC?
14:44.28alteregoBCMM: exactly,
14:44.32BCMMthat's a good idea
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14:44.45alteregoI'm testing with an N810 though ^.^
14:46.59MohammadAGI'm gonna ask politely
14:47.05MohammadAGWHO THE FUCK OPTIFIES LIBRARIES
14:47.14ShadowJKwhy not
14:47.24ShadowJKthey take up space too :/
14:47.25alteregoMohammadAG: it would be fine, if they're in a "standard" location, like /opt/usr/lib
14:47.29alteregoand /opt/lib
14:47.35MohammadAGcause i've been pulseaudio-less for a week because of it
14:47.45ShadowJK/opt/maemo/lib :)
14:47.50MohammadAGlibflac8
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14:48.22DocScrutinizererr, so what?
14:48.30ShadowJKoh nice, does that mean ogg-support has finally been optified? it eats so much space on / :(
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14:48.36DocScrutinizerwho DOES NOT optify libraries?
14:48.50DocScrutinizer~optification
14:48.50infobot[optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3
14:48.54MohammadAGi have no idea, but pulseaudio doesn't start
14:49.42ShadowJKI wish base os was /usr and on nand, and extra stuff in /usr/maemoorg/ or something, on emmc
14:49.59DocScrutinizerso to me it seems the right question is: "WHO T F DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO OPTIFY CORRECTLY?"
14:51.39alteregoI'd say /usr on nand and /usr/local on emmc
14:51.42alteregoMakes more sense ..
14:51.52alterego(at least to me)
14:51.53GAN900I don't think many people are being polite here. :P
14:52.05ShadowJKit's okay, MeeGo is going to be on emmc/sd only, so then we either need devices with 1-2gig ram, or go on a massive microsdhc treasurehunt trying to find one that's fast (and class rating sucks)
14:52.10CableTwitchThis is unusual how?
14:52.28ShadowJKalterego, yeah that'd be fine too
14:52.51CableTwitchMo, did you manage to find any RAM modules that would work with the 900?
14:53.11CableTwitchI'd be interested in seeing how viable a self-service upgrade to system memory could be.
14:53.18ShadowJKwell the ram is soldered onto the cpu
14:53.28X-FadeCableTwitch: Forget about it, really.
14:53.37CableTwitchYeah, I kinda forgot about that bit... XD
14:54.04MohammadAGCableTwitch, nope
14:54.13alteregoUSB is faster than WiFi right?
14:54.16DocScrutinizeralterego: what's the use of having /usr on NAND? o.O
14:54.21MohammadAGCableTwitch, and if I did, I won't replace it
14:54.26CableTwitchI forget... is the CPU BGA?
14:54.28ajf_I'm on Vodafone UK and I upgraded to PR 1.3, since then my phone keeps losing signal and needs a reboot to get it back. Has anyone heard of this?
14:54.29SpeedEvilUSB may or may not be faster than wifi
14:54.30GAN900If you're good at BGA soldering you can source PoPs for reasonable prices in lots of 1000.
14:54.30MohammadAGalterego, yes, should be
14:54.34alteregoDocScrutinizer: because it's quicker for system stuff?
14:54.40GAN900CableTwitch, CPU and the PoP
14:54.47CableTwitchYay
14:54.54DocScrutinizeralterego: irrelevant
14:54.57ShadowJKYeah, want to be able to page in the phone UI faster :)
14:54.57alteregoSpeedEvil: say a USB 2 memory stick or hard drive and data transfer over WiFi
14:55.10SpeedEvilalterego: USB will usually be faster
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14:55.15alteregoDocScrutinizer: how is a justification irrelevant?
14:55.35alteregoO_o
14:55.45alteregoWhy don't you come up with a reason against it.
14:56.27DocScrutinizeralterego: FHS isn't for anybody and his dog inventing random new schemes. Learn to do proper system architecture
14:56.52alteregoO_O
14:56.57alteregoWhat is that supposed to mean?
14:57.04ShadowJKI guess we'll go back to /opt/vendor/ then
14:57.31alterego<PROTECTED>
14:57.46alterego(by the sysadmin)
14:57.51alteregoWhich in this case is the user.
14:58.03ShadowJKI prefer NetBSD's /usr for system, /usr/local for things you compile yourself, /usr/pkg for things from packag tree :-)
14:58.08alteregoTo me, it seems better to use /usr/local than have a load of /opt/blah directories
14:58.17alteregoAt least then we can have a consistent entry in ld.so.conf
14:58.34DocScrutinizerand tbh I happily rade in 20% speed loss on accessing /usr (and *only* on accessing /usr) for that mindboggling optification
14:58.37MohammadAGBack to the original problem :P
14:58.49MohammadAG/opt isn't ready when pulseaudio starts
14:58.59chem|stBCMM: so what? the backpanel is about 20€ but why would it wear down?
14:59.00MohammadAGthus, an optified library won't work
14:59.14MohammadAGlibflac8 shouldn't be opified
14:59.22alteregoDocScrutinizer: unneccesarry.
14:59.26ShadowJKsubmit bugreport against pulseaudio :D
14:59.31alteregoWe can have both
14:59.43alteregoA sane architecture and the performance we have now.
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15:00.20Venemo_N900why does modest have to be such a piece o' crap?
15:00.21alterego/usr/local over /opt just seems more intuitive to me, I don't know why they didn't do it.
15:00.24MohammadAGShadowJK, why not against libflac8
15:00.33ShadowJKI never understood why all the linuxen are mixing system packages and user installed packages anyway, though it hasn't ever had a well defined system border either, except on things like meego and maemo
15:00.44DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: then the library is ill placed. It has to go to /lib then, rather than /usr/lib
15:00.56ShadowJKMohammadAG, because / is precious
15:01.50Venemo_N900hi guys
15:01.51MohammadAG300K/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 seriously...
15:02.00MohammadAGit's only 300k
15:02.14Venemo_N900what's up?
15:02.23MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, pulseaudio loads from /usr/bin, obviously, /usr/lib is there when it starts
15:02.26MohammadAGhey Venemo_N900
15:02.49Venemo_N900hello MohammadAG :)
15:02.51alteregobrb
15:03.05ShadowJKthat's a cool strategy, split something up into 100 libraries and say "it's just 300k" for evrry one :)  (this is actually the reason why ogg-support has gigantic / use)
15:03.20Venemo_N900is on a train again
15:03.37DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so which noob moved a lib to /opt generically, without proper symlink from /usr/lib?
15:03.56DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: what you say doesn't make sense to me
15:04.11MohammadAGit is symlinked, but /opt won't be ready at that time so the symlinks is pointless
15:04.23MohammadAGand the maintainer is mikkov
15:04.46DocScrutinizerand the definition of /usr is it gets mounted later
15:05.29MohammadAGand /opt gets mounted even after that
15:05.34DocScrutinizerso anything needing stuff prior to mounting /usr needs to go to the corresponding root directories
15:05.51chem|stlikes dependencies based boot
15:06.29DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you're arguing with "we did that bad thing, so we now should tweak all pkg to make use of it"
15:06.59MohammadAGhuh? what?
15:07.40DocScrutinizerread FHS
15:07.45MohammadAGi'm just saying libflac8 shouldn't be optified
15:07.53DocScrutinizerunderstand what's the rationale behind /usr
15:08.06MohammadAGpulseaudio is started BEFORE /opt is mounted
15:08.49chem|stMohammadAG: then make it mount earlier
15:09.04chem|stit is dumb setup anyways
15:09.09DocScrutinizerAnd I told you /opt is irrelevant, as it's really /usr that shouldn't be used before it gets mounted. Nobody cares about maemo that didn't understand that and instead invented optification
15:09.11MohammadAGyeah, and wait for a new PR
15:09.53DocScrutinizerso if PA is started early it has to go to /bin /lib /sbin etc, NOT to their /usr/* counterparts
15:10.17MohammadAGPA is started from /usr/bin...
15:10.29MohammadAG/usr would be mounted duh
15:10.29chem|stDocScrutinizer: afair my debian does mount anything itself if in fstab on auto etc if called earlier than normal
15:10.31DocScrutinizerSO WHAT???!!! THIS IS WROOOOONG
15:10.45DocScrutinizerMEH!
15:11.20DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: had a booze night yesterday, or what?
15:11.26MohammadAGI think we can both agree it shouldn't be in /opt with a symlink in /usr/lib
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15:12.12chem|stDocScrutinizer: did you mean /usr should not be used before /opt is mounted?
15:12.17DocScrutinizerchem|st: irrelevant
15:12.31MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, I have 20 missed calls and 10 silent ones because of a damn lib that shouldn't be optified
15:12.42DocScrutinizerthe definition of /usr is it MUST NOT be used for system relevant and early things
15:13.08chem|stDocScrutinizer: pulse is not system relevant...
15:13.19DocScrutinizerbut early
15:13.34chem|sttrue
15:13.41DocScrutinizervim also isn't system relevant
15:13.47chem|stactualy the call isn't that early...
15:13.49MohammadAGpa is started after /usr is mounted and before /opt is mounted
15:13.51DocScrutinizerread FHS
15:14.04MohammadAGregardless, the module should not be optified
15:14.24DocScrutinizerobviously as it MUST NOT go into /usr
15:14.30chem|stMohammadAG: it should be but /opt should be mounted before any /usr call
15:14.34DocScrutinizerif they want to use it early
15:14.34nicolaithe interesting question is, why does pulse needs libflac.
15:15.08MohammadAGnicolai, ldd shows that it's tied to it
15:15.11DocScrutinizernicolai: ++
15:15.43nicolaiyes, but after reflashing with pr 1.3. ldd shows it isnt tied to it
15:15.49MohammadAGlibFLAC.so.8 => /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8 (0x4060a000)
15:15.51chem|stthe bloating pulseaudio setup of nokia is pissing me off anyway
15:16.12MohammadAGnicolai, err, what?
15:16.20MohammadAGso something is replacing pulseaudio?
15:16.21DocScrutinizerchem|st: congrats, now we're two
15:16.43chem|stDocScrutinizer: since march...
15:17.04chem|stMohammadAG: properly using pulse would be one idea
15:17.09DocScrutinizerI wouldn't be surprised to find that being a side effect in powerkernel (libflac)
15:17.46alteregoHrm ..
15:18.00chem|stthere is no need for a systemwide daemon running
15:18.35alteregoWhy does dbus go through the roof when I use it in Qt?!
15:18.41DocScrutinizer>>titan: "Duh, why not include a few nice codecs to PA by default?!"
15:18.44Venemo_N900hopefully they'll get it right in MeeGo
15:19.02chem|stthe only thing why pulse is needed that early is the damn hands movie
15:19.02DocScrutinizerthey won't
15:19.04Khertan<chem|st> the bloating pulseaudio setup of nokia is pissing me off anyway <<< the ubuntu one is worse :)
15:19.19DocScrutinizerchem|st: yep
15:19.23Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: why won't they?
15:19.43DocScrutinizermeego is adopting PA
15:20.14Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: well there is nothing wrong with PA itself
15:20.19chem|stKhertan: I knew there are a lot of reasons why I do not use buntu distros - it adds to it
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15:20.22DocScrutinizerorly?
15:20.28Venemo_N900lots of desktop distros use it too
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15:20.54DocScrutinizeryeah, screwit damn #@@!?%&/
15:21.12chem|stVenemo_N900: there is a lot wrong with pulse if you set it --system
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15:21.35Khertanchem|st, :) yep but i've still problem with my pulseaudio conf ... without using ubuntu :) but hem ... i can only blame myself
15:21.40DocScrutinizerbecause of some ****** shoving that PA shit down everybodies throat
15:22.01corecodeanybody hacked the mail client to store sent mail on imap?
15:22.09chem|stKhertan: Venemo_N900: and on my desktop I am fighting aswell but with my own setup from hell
15:22.19Venemo_N900heh
15:22.40chem|stMohammadAG: make pulse die after startup movie might help
15:22.45Khertanchem|st, i ve try to setup myself after just installing debian core
15:23.26Venemo_N900why not simply mount the necessary stuff earlier?
15:23.29DocScrutinizerchem|st: MohammadAG: you should listen carefully to what nicolai said
15:23.47chem|stKhertan: welcome to the jungle
15:24.10chem|stDocScrutinizer: you mean the "why does it need" part?
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15:24.34DocScrutinizermore the >><nicolai> yes, but after reflashing with pr 1.3. ldd shows it isnt tied to it<< part
15:24.45GAN900DocScrutinizer, tell us how you REALLY feel.
15:25.02DocScrutinizerGAN900: huh?
15:25.24chem|stDocScrutinizer: it is called at that point anyway if MohammadAG isn't on his other phone...
15:25.59DocScrutinizerchem|st: sorry, you lost me
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15:26.56corecodewhat do you suggest, maemo sdk+, or just plain maemo 5 sdk from nokia?
15:26.58chem|stDocScrutinizer: thought he got two phones one at PR1.2 and another 1.3
15:27.15chem|stDocScrutinizer: nvm
15:27.16DocScrutinizerMohammadAG? not afaik
15:27.24Khertanchem|st, maybe i should try an working out of the box distribution ...
15:27.32Khertanchem|st, but based on debian :)
15:27.36MohammadAGnope, not me
15:27.47Khertanchem|st, linux mint seems a good candidate
15:27.59chem|stKhertan: what do you mean, own distro or use a OOTB one?
15:28.10chem|stKhertan: depends on the device you are using
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15:28.24DocScrutinizerI'd suggest a mass poll on ldd PA, vs stock or power kernel
15:28.27chem|stKhertan: and expectations you got
15:28.51DocScrutinizerI suspect a flaw in power kernel config
15:29.33Khertanchem|st, device will be a core i5 4gb ram sys on ssd , something fast, pyqt, pidgin, quot libet, firefox and libnotification :)
15:29.41Khertanand virtualbox :)
15:29.57Khertannot really complicated ... something that all distrib can provide :)
15:30.41chem|stKhertan: I was one of the earliest to adopt debian on a sammy nc10 (2 weeks after release in europe) fully supported, 3 month later linux mint worked OOTB...
15:31.02chem|stKhertan: so a desktop plugnpray machine
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15:31.36Khertanchem|st, hum ... i used debian squeeze with xfce + tint2 on my samsung n130 :)
15:32.03Venemo_N900corecode: what is maemo sdk+ ?
15:32.07Khertanchem|st, plugandpray ? why ?
15:32.41Khertanchem|st, i ve verified that all mainboard chipset are supported by the current squeeze version of debian :)=
15:32.57Khertan(audio, network, usb ...)
15:33.04chem|stKhertan: squeeze + ion3, pray as I got a 50:50 chance of melting something when I hotplug pciE cards ;)
15:33.53chem|stKhertan: sure... mint is debian derived
15:34.40Khertandid you hotplug pciE cards everyday ?
15:35.08chem|stKhertan: no just for several hours several times
15:35.38DocScrutinizerGAN900: what was it you wanted me to tell you?
15:35.59chem|stcompared cube and physics performance of nvidia cards and raidcontrollers
15:36.23chem|stfried one...
15:36.42Khertanchem|st, ;) ... i think i didn't plug or unplug something on my pc since april 2010
15:36.43Khertan:)
15:37.27chem|stKhertan: just some hours ago I had my n900 fully dissected
15:37.41Khertanbut the main question is why using mint instead of debian ... as it s just a derivated ... i didn't see the added value
15:38.15chem|stuh mint is just no hassle! I prefer pure debian
15:38.51chem|stmint is like "put it on a stick and boot, copy it on disk and reboot without stick!"
15:39.05chem|stsystem ready...
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15:40.39Venemo_N900the question is, why did the authors of mint start their own distro instead of contributing to Debian?
15:41.14GAN900DocScrutinizer, sorry, I forgot the sarcasm tags. *g*
15:41.47DocScrutinizerthough those wouldn't help me to understand what you were referring to
15:42.52KhertanVenemo_N900, yep ... also
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15:42.59DocScrutinizerNFC what you meant to say
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15:43.15chem|stVenemo_N900: most start because of the restrictive upstream management, the goal fro debian is to create a ultra-rock-solid-server distribution and so is the management
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15:43.37yaccWonder, is there any documentation on the boot process of the n900?
15:43.52GAN900DocScrutinizer, was addressing your anger about Nokia this morning. ;)
15:43.57Venemo_N900chem|st: ok so then there is ubuntu
15:44.08DocScrutinizerme? angry about Nokia?
15:44.12Venemo_N900chem|st: they could've contributed to that too
15:44.19RST38hGAN900: Have you been promising Doc pink unicorns, online? =)
15:44.23DocScrutinizernot more than usual
15:44.36chem|stVenemo_N900: religion?
15:45.00DocScrutinizerGAN900: [citation needed]
15:45.01Venemo_N900chem|st: maybe
15:45.25Venemo_N900chem|st: but I still think it is ridiculous
15:45.47chem|st170+ distributions is ridiculous!
15:46.47Venemo_N900chem|st: indeed
15:47.26chem|stI understand the common 15-20 but the rest... waste of space
15:47.28alteregoLooks like I've crashed Xorg ..
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15:47.40Venemo_N900chem|st: although I do not agree with it, I can understand why people do it
15:47.54chem|st2nd
15:47.56DocScrutinizeryeah, nuke *buntu and we are rid of some of the more annoying ones ;-P
15:48.08chem|stDocScrutinizer: for example
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15:48.49Khertanchem|st, and what did you think of using ssd ? does there is a real performance improve or not by using it for / but not /home and swap ?
15:49.23*** join/#maemo MohammadAG_ (~MohammadA@62.219.120.20)
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15:50.03chem|stKhertan: mainly useless, faster boot, all relevant stuff is in RAM anyway so performance you get for starting stuff but not for running stuff
15:50.29DocScrutinizerchem|st: ++
15:50.30MohammadAG_hmm, how do I get a USB headset working on maemo?
15:50.31Khertan(small ssd 32Go but Read: Up to 280 MB/s and write 170Mbs)
15:50.46DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: with the right drivers?
15:50.59MohammadAG_other than those?
15:51.15chem|stKhertan: so what? I would like to have that for my 2TB data partition
15:51.18Khertanchem|st, hum ... as it s arround 100Euros ... maybe i should go for 8Gb of ram instead of 4Gb for same price
15:52.14chem|stI dont care about slow startup of a program as I leave everything open, so fast swap with about 4GB is just enough
15:52.46chem|stKhertan: RAM I buy as much as the MB supports...
15:53.33chem|stKhertan: having a DVD cached in RAM while watching/burning/resampling etc. is a key feat.
15:55.07DocScrutinizerchem|st: ++
15:55.09chem|stKhertan: swap is only 4GB as it only swaps if realy needed, hibernate goes to swapfile somewhere
15:55.24chem|stDocScrutinizer: you agree alot today ;)
15:56.37chem|stKhertan: / is on my slowest disk /data is on my most energy efficient and /home on my fastest...
15:56.40DocScrutinizeryeah, I probably should throttle posting such noise
15:57.19chem|stDocScrutinizer: nope it is good the see that people agree on things I am normaly fighting for
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15:58.26yaccAh, anyone got an idea how the boot process inside maemo5 works? Googling turns up many pages related to installing MeeGo, Android, but not much related to things that happen after the kernel takes over.
15:58.30chem|stKhertan: I loose about 30MB/s just because of encryption...
15:58.53chem|sthave a nice weekend ppl
15:59.03Venemo_N900chem|st: you too :)
15:59.29DocScrutinizeryacc: a bit. ask specific questions
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15:59.48yaccDocScrutinizer: I'm still on my pulseaudio does not start problem.
16:00.13DocScrutinizerread backscroll, seems MohammadAG_ has found a cause
16:00.33Venemo_N900yacc: does 'start pulseaudio' as root solve it? it does for me most of the time
16:01.01DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: power kernel?
16:01.09yaccDocScrutinizer: The interesting part is that I cannot start pulseaudio (stopping because it's respawning to fast) after booting the device, but later (no idea how much later, I admit) I can start it.
16:01.22yaccDocScrutinizer: And no, I have the stock kernel, no power kernel for me.
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16:02.15Khertanchem|st, thanks, you too
16:02.39DocScrutinizertry starting PA directly, with the exact line that's used normaly as a parameter to dsme-tool im /etc/events.d
16:03.11DocScrutinizersee if you can get any meaningful output or syslog
16:05.14Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: nope, stock kernel here
16:06.02Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: still PA doesn't start in 50% of time
16:06.56Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: in most cases, I can start it with 'start pulseaudio', and it the crap upstart says "respawning too fast", then a reboot usually fixes it
16:07.26DocScrutinizerumm, for PA upstart does "respawn" no dsme-tool involved o.O
16:08.04DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: respawning too fast isn't any useful an errormsg
16:08.34DocScrutinizerit just indicates PA has quit and was restarted by upstart several times
16:08.45Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: afaik it is a bug in Maemo's Upstart that it says this when it's in a bad mood
16:08.54DocScrutinizerit doesn't tell WHY PA quits
16:09.02Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: indeed
16:09.16yaccDocScrutinizer: That's from now when pa does start: http://pastebin.com/bSL0ACCd
16:10.00yaccVenemo_N900, actually the respawning too fast happens for me after a reboot and goes away after some time.
16:10.17Venemo_N900what I'm saying is that Upstart randomly gives this message for other stuff too
16:10.52Venemo_N900we would need to find out why PA doesn't start in the first place
16:11.28DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
16:11.30alteregoupstart does that because it's shit.
16:11.49alteregoI've had so much hassle trying to get daemons running in upstart with that lame message.
16:12.06DocScrutinizeralterego: ???
16:12.13alteregoThere was actually a bug in the version of upstart used in maemo that caused that issue,
16:12.21alteregoDon't know if it was fixed.
16:12.29DocScrutinizerticket#?
16:12.33alteregoIt's a known upstream problem anyway.
16:13.29alteregoNo idea.
16:13.33alteregoDocScrutinizer: ^
16:13.40DocScrutinizerdoesn't sound convincing to me
16:14.38DocScrutinizersee /etc/event.d/pulseaudio, last line: >>respawn
16:15.16DocScrutinizerSo I tend to think upstart restarts PA as PA is segfaulting or otherwise quiting
16:15.58MohammadAG_yacc, copy the lib in /opt to /usr/lib
16:16.06DocScrutinizerif this happens too often, upstart is supposed to throw error "respawning too fast" -- init does same for respawning processes in inittab
16:16.10MohammadAG_and i wasn't the one who found the solution
16:16.54alteregoI could really do with another N900 :/
16:17.14MohammadAG_cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 yacc
16:17.15yaccThat's from when start pulseaudio complains about respawning: http://pastebin.com/KTCsW5EE
16:17.34MohammadAG_yacc do that and reboot, pa will work just fine
16:17.43yaccMohammadAG: how so?
16:18.04yaccAh.
16:18.14yaccopt is not yet mounted when pa tries to start first time?
16:18.22MohammadAG_yeah
16:18.26yaccusr/lib is a symlink to opt
16:18.31MohammadAG_(sometimes it is, that's why it wokrs 1% of the time)
16:18.35MohammadAG_works*
16:18.39MohammadAG_yep
16:19.02Venemo_N900well Upstart does that awful message for 'start sticky-notes' too sometimes... so... alterego is right, this is an upstart bug
16:19.04MohammadAG_err, not /usr/lib
16:19.04MohammadAG_/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0
16:19.35yaccMohammadAG: I know, I meant /usr/lib/libFLAC....
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16:19.52MohammadAG_yeah, that's a symlink, copy the file in /opt to overwrite it
16:20.03MohammadAG_~seen mikkov
16:20.11infobotmikkov <~mikkov@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 242d 18h 17m 26s ago, saying: 'http://ecoach.garage.maemo.org/'.
16:20.19Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: why just libflac? aren't there other libs on which it depends?
16:20.48MohammadAGapparently, only that one is optified
16:21.10Venemo_N900oh.
16:21.36yaccMohammadAG: Does not fix it for me. I restarted (actually did echo b >/proc/sysrq*) and it still cannot play ringtones in the settings app.
16:22.03yaccOTOH, pulseaudio is running, which is clearly an improvement.
16:22.24yaccWhere does upstart store the output of the executed commands?
16:22.39alteregoyacc: doesn't unless you tell it to
16:22.45DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: never blame a component to be buggy unless you have sound proof for what exactly is the bug
16:22.55yaccalterego, how do I tell it?
16:23.28alteregoyacc learn upstart config and read the config file :)
16:23.42alteregoBy default I don't think apps are created attached to a tty
16:24.00DocScrutinizeralterego: sounds more like it
16:24.01Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: well I didn't research into it much
16:24.03MohammadAG_alterego, is there a way to send a DBus signal when h-e-n enumerates something?
16:24.15MohammadAG_well, when a Qt app does something in general
16:24.29Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: there is QtDbus
16:24.32alteregoMohammadAG_: yeah, QtDbus :P
16:24.34MohammadAG_by sending a signal I mean sending my own signal for other apps to use it
16:24.58alteregoYes
16:25.02alteregoEasy, as pie :P
16:25.03Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: it is totally possible with QtDbus
16:25.29MohammadAG_would be nice to have an app that auto detects a mouse and activates the patched mouse driver + mouse pointer
16:25.37alteregoMohammadAG_: http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq20-dbus.html
16:25.42MohammadAG_ty
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16:25.49alterego"Sending and Receiving"
16:26.14alteregodbus is quite nice in Qt.
16:26.47Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qtdbus.html
16:26.50yaccAny way to get ls to show not only the inode number but also the st_dev?
16:26.50DocScrutinizerok, seems we excluded powerkernel from the usual suspects. So I guess everybody who has this PA problem has the pkg advanced-audio-codecs (or similar) installed. I could imagine there's a bug in this pkg with linking some PA module that gets replaced to a lib that's optified
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16:27.31MohammadAG_removing one line in libflac8.postinst to not optify it would do wonders
16:27.58DocScrutinizerwhich pkg is libflac8 ?
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16:28.36MohammadAG_libflac8 :)
16:28.41DocScrutinizerbah
16:28.43MohammadAG_decoders-support just depends on it
16:28.48DocScrutinizerk
16:28.50Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I have the "extra decoders support" installed, yes
16:29.03DocScrutinizercheck libflac8 of PR1.2
16:29.09DocScrutinizerthe pkg
16:29.14alteregoI've never had this issue ..
16:29.15MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, it's an extras package, can be fixed
16:29.24alteregoBut I don't think I installed extra codec support this time round.
16:29.44MohammadAG_would enumeration be better as a system bus signal or a session bus one?
16:29.45DocScrutinizercheck the module/lib that ld-depends on libflac8, in version of PR1.2
16:29.46Venemo_N900alterego: be happy then :)
16:29.51MohammadAG_votes system :)
16:29.59alteregoQ: My app has the option of screen keep-alive, should I, when my app is switched to background, inhibit that function if it's enabled?
16:30.11DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: prior to fixing we need to spot the bug
16:30.27alteregoSo, my app will only keep alive the screen, if it's in the foreground and the option is enabled.
16:30.33DocScrutinizeryou found a botch workaround, but haven't yet dissected where the bug came in
16:30.54Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: I found you this: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/examples-dbus.html
16:31.14alteregoDocScrutinizer: probably because PA doesn't have mountfs as one of its' dependants.
16:31.18MohammadAG_alterego, yes, that would be nice :)
16:31.32Venemo_N900alterego: yes, you should
16:31.50DocScrutinizer2 possible causes: a) libflac8.postinst is buggy in PR1.3,  b) the binary that links in this libflac8 is buggy
16:31.53alteregoYeah, done it, thought it'd probably be the sane choice ;)
16:31.56MohammadAG_Venemo_N900, thanks :D
16:32.00Venemo_N900alterego: or if you're not sure, place an additional option in your app whether to do so
16:32.06DocScrutinizeralterego: that's also quite possible
16:32.17MohammadAG_likes the chat example, would be nice to have a cross platform bluetooth messenger, classes are sometimes boring
16:32.29alteregoDocScrutinizer: if it's caused by mount happening too late, then that is the better solution I think.
16:32.30Venemo_N900:)
16:32.41ShadowJKalterego, yes that sounds sensible
16:32.47Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: why not just irc?
16:32.57yaccDocScrutinizer: Don't think so, because I just listed the st_dev and it's the same for all libraries referenced from /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/*.so :(
16:33.04DocScrutinizeralterego: could be a sleeping bug since ages, that came up on PR1.3 with some timing changes / race
16:33.24alteregoYeah,
16:33.36alteregoDo you want me to look at the upstart configs then? ;)
16:34.00DocScrutinizeralterego: would you verify it fixes things, and then open a ticket with a proper patch attached?
16:34.13alteregoWell, I don't suffer the issue.
16:34.37MohammadAG_Venemo_N900, cause my classmates don't use IRC :)
16:34.43Venemo_N900alterego: try the extra decoders support and see if you suffer it then
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16:34.55alteregom'kay.
16:34.55DocScrutinizerok, so explain to moh and yacc and Venemo_N900 how to fix it proper, and they will happily verify
16:35.03DocScrutinizeralterego: ^^
16:35.08Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: I meant #maemo :P
16:35.14alteregoI don't really want to suffer it thanks ;)
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16:35.21alteregoI'll explain the fix and make a patch.
16:35.33alteregoIf it seems to solve the issue then you can submit it.
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16:35.42MohammadAG_Venemo_N900, heh, I'm always on
16:35.56DocScrutinizeralterego: :-D
16:36.29Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: huh, really?
16:36.37Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: how does your battery handle it?
16:36.50*** join/#maemo peb (~peb@p579D467E.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:36.51pebis gone. Gone since Fri Nov 26 15:14:00 2010
16:36.52MohammadAG_Venemo_N900, well, I cracked the school's WEP so I don't need to worry about 3G
16:36.53yacclol, funny behaviour too: despite pulseaudio running, when the alarmclock wants to play an alarm all I get is a beep (could be also the first sub-second part of the ring tone, not sure).
16:37.09Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: lol :D
16:37.29MohammadAG_yacc, you probably used /etc/event.d/pulseaudio to start pulseaudio right?
16:37.45MohammadAG_I did that last week, make a call, it'll always go through the loudspeakers
16:37.54yaccMohammadAG_, well, after the libFLAC fix it does start on boot, so yeah, I guess so.
16:37.58Venemo_N900yacc: I haven't seen that bug yet, although I use the default alarm ringtone
16:38.00MohammadAG_reboot fixed it
16:38.07MohammadAG_ah, nvm then
16:38.21MohammadAG_thinks he has seen most bugs around maemo :P
16:38.32alteregoOkay, it appears the fix is to add: start on stopped rcS-late to /etc/event.d/pulseaudio
16:38.50yaccMohammadAG_: and despite that pa is running, the media player still says "cannot play, audio device is used by a different program"
16:39.10Venemo_N900hmm
16:39.27yaccalterego, add or replace the existing start on line?
16:39.34MohammadAG_add it
16:39.36alteregoadd it
16:39.44alteregoIt needs to start after dbus too.
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16:40.33yaccOk, rebooting.
16:41.07*** join/#maemo jaybee_away (jb@76.77.183.100)
16:41.23MohammadAG_rebooting
16:41.25alteregoThis may, however, stop the nokia tune from playing ..
16:41.37yaccalterego, that's a bonus :)
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16:41.41alteregoHeh
16:42.02MohammadAG_(file moved back to /opt, symlinked again)
16:42.02MohammadAG_I hope I haven't typod
16:42.06yaccalterego, nothing as irritating to be unable to restart the phone without letting the whole room know.
16:42.07MohammadAG_btw, reboot shuts down my device for some reason
16:42.30Jay_BEEgood (UGT) morning
16:42.35Venemo_N900yacc: well you can always remove the hands movie entirely
16:42.41alteregoyacc: well, that's an easy fix: echo -n > /usr/share/whereever/that/avi/is.avi
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16:42.49MohammadAG_alterego, didn't work :)
16:42.58alteregoInteresting.
16:43.16alteregoSo you still have the problem?
16:43.17Venemo_N900there is an option in powatool that turns that movie of
16:43.25*** part/#maemo wqapol (~quassel@117.192.126.31)
16:43.32alteregoI installed a custom one.
16:43.32yaccalterego, lol I think you can leave out the echo -n, the redirection on an empty command makes also an empty file.
16:43.58alteregoOh, cool :P
16:44.04alteregoLearn something new every day ;)
16:44.09yaccalterego, media player still tells me that something else is using the "sound device".
16:44.24Venemo_N900yacc: hm, interesting
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16:44.26MohammadAG_instead of clearing the avi file, clear the config
16:44.37Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: agreed
16:44.39MohammadAG_yacc, heh, had that one
16:44.44MohammadAG_only fix was to reflash :)
16:44.49Venemo_N900hm. is that avi optified at least?
16:44.54MohammadAG_I think so
16:45.05MohammadAG_lcuk, should know
16:45.28MohammadAG_btw, why does mce sorta depend on pulseaudio for haptic feedback?
16:45.49yaccMohammadAG_: that's not exactly a fix, that's a capitulation ;)
16:46.07DocScrutinizeralterego: event.d/rcS-late:
16:46.11DocScrutinizerscript
16:46.13DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
16:46.14DocScrutinizer<PROTECTED>
16:46.49alteregobleurgh
16:46.51alteregom'kay
16:47.18alteregoremote the -late
16:47.24MohammadAG_has yet to figure out how to scroll to the bottom of a QTextBrowser/QTextEdit
16:47.26alteregoThis might be the case
16:47.36alteregotry: start on stopped rcS
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16:47.54Venemo_N900MohammadAG_: #qt is a nice place
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16:48.09alterego#qt is full of trolls
16:48.23MohammadAG_agrees ^
16:48.28Venemo_N900yeah, literally :D
16:48.31Venemo_N900lol
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16:48.58yaccJust tried it out, my ringtone is the same as the ringtone in the alarm clock, 4 very short weak beeps.
16:49.23alteregoyacc: do you want to try with the modification I just said?
16:49.31yaccalterego, which one?
16:49.46yaccalterego, start on rc late, that one is already in there and rebooted afterwards.
16:50.03yaccalterego, the full way with pin request and all.
16:50.08alteregostart on stopped rcS
16:50.17alterego(without -late)
16:50.46yaccstart on stopped rcS
16:50.52alteregoYes
16:50.54yaccHope that's ok, reboot coming.
16:50.58alterego:)
16:51.03alteregoIt's okay for sshd :P
16:51.23alteregoStrange how rcS-late doesn't depend on rcS :)
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16:52.53yaccBtw, the sounds for "battery is charging" and "connected IM" are playing fine.
16:52.54Venemo_N900what does rcS stand for?
16:53.27Venemo_N900yacc: can the cause be file system corruption?
16:53.28yaccrc file for single user mode, that is always executed no matter what init level you want to go to?
16:53.39DocScrutinizeralterego: WUT?
16:53.45DocScrutinizero.O
16:54.05DocScrutinizeryeah, seems all quite... messed up
16:54.17yaccalterego, ok, did not help.
16:54.21alteregopfft
16:54.25MohammadAG_I'm more interested in why /etc/event.replace.d/ isn't cleaned up
16:54.27alteregoOh well, I give up, got things to do :P
16:54.28yaccmedia player still claims the device is busy.
16:54.39MohammadAG_yacc, I suggested reflashing, I had the same problem with the camera
16:54.48DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: who claimed it should?
16:54.57alteregoI might look into it later if I have the time and I fancy screwing my media playback capabilities :P
16:55.13alteregoWait, is yacc's problem not the one we're trying to fix:
16:55.15alterego?
16:55.16MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, I have duplicate scripts in /etc/event.d and /etc/event.replace.d
16:55.45DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: please enlighten me what exactly this event.replace.d is for
16:55.45yaccI wonder why some apps (the desktop for example) can play sounds while others cannot?
16:56.04Venemo_N900may be a permission issue?
16:56.11korhojoahmm, anyone tried using uprecords on their n900?
16:56.19MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, postinst of mce copies script from it
16:56.24MohammadAG_to /etc/event.d
16:56.31korhojoai got it installed on mine using the debian armel debs, but it doesn't keep the records updated
16:56.33MohammadAG_yacc, policy file issue?
16:56.35korhojoaeach reboot it resets them
16:56.42DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: hmm, so why should it be cleaned?
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16:57.14ereslibrehey, where can i find maemo bluetooth related code ?
16:57.14yaccMohammadAG: I've got two processes accessing /dev/snd, one is pa, and the other one is /usr/sbin/alsaped -p 4 -f /usr/share/policy/etc/curre
16:58.04DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: good point
16:58.11yaccMohammadAG_, Which policy files?
16:58.22yaccMohammadAG_: which package do I need to reinstall?
16:58.30MohammadAG_Nokia-N900:~# cat /usr/share/policy/etc/current/pulse/xpolicy.conf | pastebinit
16:58.30MohammadAG_http://pastebin.com/jZZaL3cE
16:58.46DocScrutinizeranybody of you installed the skip-on-headset-pushbutton app, or the pause-on-unplug-hs ?
16:58.50MohammadAG_you might want to remove the last two section if you don't have them
16:59.03MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, headphoned, yes, I have it
16:59.14DocScrutinizermight mess up policy file
16:59.28MohammadAG_and qwerty12's headset-control app, had it for quite some time, then my headset broke
16:59.37yaccDocScrutinizer: Now that you ask, I've got the pause-on-unplug app installed.
16:59.45Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: pause on unplug is here, works as always for me
16:59.57MohammadAG_yacc it doesn't cause issues
17:00.07DocScrutinizerthat doesn't mean it leaves the file intact though
17:00.19MohammadAG_it edits it, but it doesn't ruin it :)
17:00.33Venemo_N900anyway guys, I have to leave now
17:00.36DocScrutinizerit might introduce whatever issue, with 1.3
17:00.48Venemo_N900good evening to all of you and have a nice weekend :)
17:01.21DocScrutinizereven a perfect edit that was ok for 1.2 may mess up 1.3 PA
17:02.11MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, true, but I have it installed and it hasn't caused me issues
17:02.30MohammadAG_also, thp hasn't left the community, if it does cause issues he would've updated it :)
17:02.34DocScrutinizerI strongly suggest to check both apps. Deinstall, make sure the files were restored to original, check if error still occurs
17:04.19DocScrutinizerthe late mount story sounds good, but when mediaplayer is doing shakehands from optified medifile, then evidently /home has to be mounted at that point in time
17:04.53yaccMohammadAG_: That's the diff to mine: http://pastebin.com/wRGi6U1J
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17:06.03DocScrutinizerlooks fishy
17:06.11*** join/#maemo Coin (~coin@bl15-255-56.dsl.telepac.pt)
17:06.20alteregoLovely segfaulys.
17:06.23alterego~segfaults.
17:06.38*** join/#maemo Coin_Ope_Boy (~coin@bl15-255-56.dsl.telepac.pt)
17:06.40DocScrutinizerdon't call infobot names
17:07.24alteregoHeh
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17:08.49yaccsigh
17:09.17yaccDo we have some cmdline tools that I could try for playing a mp3 through pa?
17:10.28MohammadAG_looks at the two assignments he has to write and hand in tomorrow
17:10.39MohammadAG_goes back to Qt Creator
17:10.39alteregoYaaay, fixed me segfauly :)
17:10.41DocScrutinizerplay-sound
17:11.08alteregoAh, need to clean up that a bit ^.^
17:11.26DocScrutinizeralterego: ??
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17:13.59yaccNokia-N900-51-1:~# play-sound /home/user/MyDocs/Musik/Vangelis/The\ Hits\ of\ Vangelis/01\ -\ Pulstar.mp3
17:13.59yaccca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): File or data corrupt
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17:14.36yaccGoogle does not say anything about that error :(
17:15.20yaccaway for a moment
17:17.47nicolaiyacc: try a .wav file, play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-battery_low.wav
17:18.10BCMMit could be worse. i hate it when the only google results for an error are the source code of the program that just broke
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17:21.54DocScrutinizeryacc: play-sound knows .wav - seems it doesn't know other formats though (makes sense)
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17:27.58DocScrutinizeryacc: seems you're back to gst-* to playback mp3
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17:29.16DocScrutinizerBCMM: I'd love that
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17:30.09DocScrutinizerusually you find 37k-hits on lusers whining, and no proper link at all to the source
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17:39.15yaccDocScrutinizer: Isn't that funny, play-sound can play the wav file fine, ...
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17:40.06DocScrutinizeryacc: play-sound is using another policy. You can tell by the always-100% volume it uses
17:40.39yaccDocScrutinizer: By policy you mean the ini-file style sections in the xpolicy file?
17:40.46DocScrutinizeryep
17:41.35DocScrutinizerthe strange thing called policy enforcer in PA, that makes the volume separate for ringtones and for music playback and for calls
17:42.04DocScrutinizercontrolled by that file, among others. NFC how it works in detail, or where to find docs
17:42.11yaccDo I need to restart pa after changing the file?
17:42.14kerio"not fucking care"?
17:42.24DocScrutinizer~nfc
17:42.24infobot[nfc] No Fucking Clue
17:42.32kerioooh
17:42.52DocScrutinizeryacc: dunno
17:43.09DocScrutinizermaybe send SIGHUP to PA-foo
17:43.14DocScrutinizeror restart
17:43.18DocScrutinizeror nothing at all
17:43.30yaccLet's say, pulse audio is a really great piece of software. But just anyone (even people doing Linux over a decade, or perhaps especially these) hopes that their distribution gets it all right, and they don't need to touch it ;)
17:44.10keriopulseaudio is horrid
17:44.47DocScrutinizeryep. And I heard hundered times one of the major reasons for inventing PA was the abysmal ALSA doc. I can't say I find PA doc any better - hell I can't find any doc at all
17:45.14yacckerio, It can record stereo send it around half of the globe, and then replicate the stream to 3 Bluetooth headsets while recording it on harddisc with every headset having a seperate volume and so on. But setting it up makes hardcore Linux users go into panic mode.
17:45.36keriojackd does that too :(
17:47.02DocScrutinizeryacc: ACK
17:47.28DocScrutinizerbtw ALSA can do that as well... well maybe not around half the globe
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17:49.08yaccAh, just discovered GST pipeline syntax, ...
17:49.09DocScrutinizerthe really odd thing: all my mixers on my desktop are still kinda attributed ALSA mixer, not a single PA mixer
17:49.43yaccI love man pages that look like an annotated BNF
17:49.54DocScrutinizerand those ALSA mixers all can handle softvol controls quite naturally. You don't even notice it's not a hw control
17:51.26yaccYet another layer that can do everything. So Alsa can mix streams, PA too, and gstream pipelines seem to replicate a good part of that too, ...
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17:52.57yaccWho the fuck thought this eggheads about abstraction layers, sigh.
17:54.00yacccacasink:  cacasink: A colored ASCII art video sink
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17:54.13yaccI think that's clearly everything that I need, ...
17:56.26DocScrutinizer51caca YEP  XP
17:56.42alteregoyacc: alsa & PA can't decode/encode
17:56.56alteregoAnd muxing streams in gstreamer is different.
17:57.04DocScrutinizer51libcacafap
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17:57.50yaccalterego, any tool where I need more than 15 minutes to figure out from the manpage how to play a mp3 file is suspect to me?
17:58.20alteregoO_o
17:58.35alteregoMeh,
17:58.47alteregogst-launch isn't meant for playing an mp3 is it :P
18:01.08DocScrutinizerit's NOT?
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18:01.37DocScrutinizerI guess that's exactly what mediaplayer does though
18:02.06alteregoIt's one thing that it happens to be able to do.
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18:04.55yaccOk, so what conversion module does decode a mp3 file, ..
18:06.38yaccBecause the examples in the man page use mad which is not there on my n900.
18:07.22pupnikyacc: what language?
18:07.26*** join/#maemo javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro)
18:07.38yaccpupnik, language?
18:07.49alteregoHe's using gst-launch
18:07.55pupnikoh
18:08.01yaccTrying to.
18:08.05alteregoyacc: why not just use "play-sound" command?
18:08.18yaccalterego, because that one works and my media player does not.
18:08.27alteregoHeh
18:08.44GAN900Ah, Fall cold.
18:08.45yaccHence I want to see what the media player sees, because media-player error messages seem not always to be perfect clear.
18:08.46GAN900Lovely.
18:08.50alteregoYou mean the maemo media player?
18:08.55javispedrohey GAN900
18:09.02javispedrobtw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNKOImlCWHk (yes I filmed that)
18:09.04alteregoyacc: the maemo media player uses mafw
18:09.11GAN900Howdy-ho
18:09.17alteregoyacc: mafw is a dbus service that uses gstreamer to play audio.
18:09.21yaccmafw? So where's the documentation?
18:09.37alteregoIf you want to see what media player sees, you need to use dbus-send and dbus-monitor :P
18:09.53alteregodo a google search for mafw ..
18:09.57GAN900javispedro, that thing was creepy.
18:10.11yaccalterego, cool, so where's the docs?
18:10.13pupnikjavispedro: minitube doesn't see your link, but browser does
18:10.21yaccGoogle associates mafw with "Morris Area Freewheelers Bicycle Club - Home"
18:10.24alteregoyacc: google
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18:10.31GAN900pupnik, unlisted video.
18:10.35alteregoI'm sure you can be a bit more inventive than that.
18:10.42alteregoIt stands for "Media application framework"
18:11.24javispedropupnik: try now, i've made it public (nothing interesting though :) )
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18:14.31DocScrutinizer( <alterego> yacc: why not just use "play-sound" command?) [2010-11-26 18:21:53] <DocScrutinizer> yacc: play-sound knows .wav - seems it doesn't know other formats though (makes sense)
18:14.41pupnikty got it javispedro
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18:14.54javispedroplay-sound as
18:15.07javispedro*also uses system  notifications volume
18:15.10javispedroso it will be loud
18:15.42DocScrutinizerahaaaa, where from you got that special secret wisdom?
18:15.48RST38hheya javispedro
18:15.53DocScrutinizerI always wondered which policy it uses
18:15.56javispedrohi RST38h
18:16.05javispedroDocScrutinizer: pure experimentation
18:16.10DocScrutinizerlol
18:16.29DocScrutinizerisn't doc excellent on the whole audio-shit?
18:16.35javispedrocompletely!
18:16.44javispedrothere's no hidden x-maemo stuff whatsoever.
18:16.55javispedroeverything documented.
18:17.01korhojoa:D
18:17.03javispedrosighs
18:17.03DocScrutinizeruhum
18:17.28*** join/#maemo chenca (~chenca@187.58.96.84)
18:17.29*** join/#maemo troulouliou (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou)
18:17.40yaccDocScrutinizer: The point is not to play a mp3 file, the point is to get to see what really happens when it spits out it's error message. Last time when pa was dead it said something like "cannot play files in this format", .... <= not exactly the real cause, ...
18:17.40RST38hopen, yes
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18:17.45troulouliouhi could anybody give me the output of glxinfo on its maemo ?
18:18.09BCMMyacc: it complains about the format if anything at all goes wrong
18:18.26BCMMyacc: i've had that due to PA dieing and due to the DSP getting a broken state
18:18.36BCMM^in
18:19.04BCMMtroulouliou: sure, which package is it in?
18:19.08yaccBCMM, so it's perhaps understandable that I want to know more, because with such generic error messages it's hard to debug the situation.
18:19.20troulouliouBCMM: apt-get install mesa-utils
18:19.30DocScrutinizer51yeah, maemo just works, why bother about error msgs or docs
18:19.33*** join/#maemo Vanadis__ (~Vanadis@84-75-177-123.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:20.00troulouliouthe app manager is too slow here so i drop it definitively :)
18:20.13erstazijust curious: N900 users, how do you know your N900 is charging?
18:20.23*** join/#maemo BCMM_ (~user@unaffiliated/bcmm)
18:20.28troulouliouther is a led blinkning in the corner
18:20.30javispedrotroulouliou: there's no GLX in the Maemo xorg server.
18:20.30erstazidoes the little red light on the bottom left blink?
18:20.36erstazitroulouliou: ^
18:20.43BCMMerstazi: a light comes on (by default), and you can see it in the status area too
18:20.52BCMMerstazi: that light isn't always red
18:20.58BCMMerstazi: by default, it's orange for charging
18:21.06DocScrutinizer51amber
18:21.10erstaziBCMM: right but that is if the phone is on (: but if the phone is off, does the normally white light blink red when it is off?
18:21.22yaccIf I trust dbus-monitor nothing beyond a stop message is transmitted, ...
18:21.24trouloulioujavispedro: what is the equivalent
18:21.34BCMMerstazi: still orange, by defualt
18:21.35DocScrutinizer51no
18:21.35erstazichecks the user manual
18:21.41DocScrutinizer51no red ever
18:21.42BCMMorange blinking light, even if hte phone is "off"
18:21.49*** join/#maemo PrimeZ (~Copter@bzq-79-183-22-208.red.bezeqint.net)
18:21.50BCMMred is for errors, and i think for the front cam being on
18:22.04BCMM(but i've messed with my settings and might've forgotten the defaults)
18:22.11DocScrutinizer51amber :-P
18:22.11trouloulioujavispedro: cause opengles 1.0 suport it i think
18:22.27javispedrotroulouliou: it's a long story, but the equivalent is  EGL
18:23.07javispedrotroulouliou: anything specific you want to know?
18:23.28trouloulioujavispedro: yeah i m porting an application that compil against GLES 1.0
18:23.54BCMMjust installing a pastebin script
18:23.54troulouliouand its using GLX for window rendering
18:24.01BCMMincidentally, glxgears doesn't work right :(
18:24.25trouloulioujavispedro: so i hoped that at least the mesa-glx was working fine
18:24.38javispedrotroulouliou: are you sure it's GLES (not GL)? It'll be the first time I have ever seen such a combination (possible though)
18:24.52javispedroBCMM: no wonder, as I guess glxgears is GL1.0 (not GLES1)
18:24.53BCMM_http://pastebin.com/VSRHDZJS
18:25.08BCMMtroulouliou: &
18:25.16BCMM^, rather
18:25.25javispedrohandle with care, that is very probably sw rendering
18:26.09BCMM"OpenGL renderer string: Mesa X11" - yep
18:26.11BCMMwhy's that?
18:26.25javispedroI am trying to explain, above :)
18:26.30javispedrothere's no GLX at all in the N900.
18:26.31BCMMGLXgears was weird, incidentally: just a fullscreen transparent window...
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18:26.50trouloulioujavispedro: think it is , it is based on ogre
18:27.08javispedroogre itself was ported to the n900
18:27.22BCMMso OpenGL ES isn't implemented through mesa?
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18:29.01troulouliouBCMM: both 1.0 and 2.0 have their own driver
18:29.31javispedrotroulouliou: I'm quite sure the GLES port of Ogre uses EGL, not GLX...
18:29.35javispedrosee http://ogre.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ogre/trunk/RenderSystems/GLES/src/
18:29.41BCMMis ES not entirely a subset of opengl proper then?
18:29.53javispedroit's a long story BCMM, GLX was never part of OpenGL
18:29.56javispedroproper.
18:30.16troulouliouBCMM: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES
18:30.29BCMMjavispedro: opengl itself has never cared about windowing systems on any platform, right?
18:30.36javispedroOpenGL is not a "complete" API in the sense that you cannot use it at all unless you have some extra platform depended API
18:30.38javispedroBCMM: exactly
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18:31.06BCMMjavispedro: and GLX doesn't do opengl-es?
18:31.13javispedroit can
18:31.17javispedrobut not on the N900.
18:31.32BCMMah... why not?
18:32.18javispedroprobably two reasons
18:32.31javispedroEGL is suggested for GLES, and no other platform used X11 with GLES
18:33.55DocScrutinizer51hmm, raster would know some details. If you would"mt mind he's using 'u' instead of 'you'
18:34.32DocScrutinizer51alas somebody thought that's a reason to kick
18:34.45javispedroheh
18:35.01yaccOk, I guess pnatd is not open source, but I wonder if there is any documentation on it at all?
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18:35.45DocScrutinizer51none I know of
18:35.55javispedroeither way, noone should know the obscure glx stuff
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18:38.55trouloulioujavispedro: iphone is using egl or glx or anything else ?
18:39.52javispedrotroulouliou: a propietary api
18:39.55javispedroit is usually called eagl
18:40.08trouloulioujavispedro : ok got it now
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18:40.43javispedrosimilar to egl btw, I'd call it "EGL on ObjC"
18:40.47javispedrobut not exactly the same
18:42.16troulouliouand egl is only compatible gles1.0 ?
18:42.31erstaziif I take the battery out, it flashes yellow/anber but if I put the battery back in, it flashes red.
18:42.33troulouliouor there is one for gles1.0 et another one for gles2.0
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18:42.51ds3a
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18:43.41javispedrotroulouliou: you can potentially use EGL with any API
18:44.04javispedrogles, gl, vg...
18:45.07javispedroflashing red? heh.
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18:49.09javispedrobtw, capacitive stylus suck.
18:49.18javispedrothe required pressure is.... wow.
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18:49.48RST38hWon't any metal object work though?
18:49.51MohammadAGsed 's/stylus/*/' :P
18:50.08javispedroRST38h: you're not going to press any metal object so hard against the screen
18:50.24*** part/#maemo renato (~renato@189.119.238.55)
18:50.27javispedroI don't know why but it requires extreme pressure to be able to detect anything at all
18:50.39javispedro(save for one's finger)
18:52.33javispedroso much for capacitive.
18:52.49javispedroif this is the way the N9 is going to work...
18:52.49DocScrutinizererstazi: battery dead, or phone hw dead
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18:54.35DocScrutinizerjavispedro: toldya capacitive sucks
18:55.14DocScrutinizertry wiener - works great and you can eat it
18:55.33RST38hnot after it touches that germ-infested touchscreen!
18:55.34javispedrobut I hoped to use a stylus for precision stuff / writing
18:55.37DocScrutinizerI'll come up with a mustard dispenser app for N9
18:56.04javispedroso the fact that it is hardly sensitive to a conductive stylus is shit.
18:56.13RST38hwonders if terminals of charged capacitors will do the job
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18:56.37DocScrutinizerjavispedro: capacitive needs a certain conduvtive *area* in close contact to screen
18:56.50myuu_hey anyone here having trouble wth Netstory?
18:57.04pupnikjavispedro: the screen denter
18:57.13DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no way for precision stuff on c-ts
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18:58.17RST38hMohammadAG is trolling lemming.
18:58.18DocScrutinizererstazi: try reflashing. If that doesn't help, try to get new battery. If that doesn't help, get a new device
18:58.26*** join/#maemo nox- (noident@p5B10484A.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:58.27RST38htrolling lemmings that is, sorry Mohammad
18:58.41javispedroI've seen too kinds of capacitive stylus, http://www.songtak.com.tw/downloadfiles/iphone%20stylus%20with%20gloves2.jpg (useless for writing), and http://www.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/CapacitiveStylus.jpg (with a "peephole", the one that requires insane pressure to work)
18:58.46RST38hhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66226 <== Not even sure if he is serious :)
18:59.23javispedrojust send them a dcma c&d
18:59.28javispedro*dmca
18:59.57MohammadAGRST38h, I am, and it works :D
19:00.03troulouliouit is possivle to replace the boot-splash hand  by console output ?
19:00.16myuu_erstazi have you ever tried to jumpstart your batt.?
19:00.22RST38hMohammad: Too bad none of these folks can appreciate the beauty of this method =)
19:00.31MohammadAGIndeed :)
19:01.09nox-moin
19:01.26DocScrutinizermeh
19:01.41DocScrutinizermoin nox-
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19:02.31nox-moin DocScrutinizer
19:02.32DocScrutinizertroulouliou: yes, with a special fb-enabled kernel, that is notorious to reboot 5 times until it comes up
19:02.50troulouliouok thanks :)
19:02.50DocScrutinizertroulouliou: ask MohammadAG
19:03.09erstaziDocScrutinizer: working on all of those.
19:03.35trouloulioui just got mine , is there anythong special to do so that when i turn it it activate the phoine ?
19:03.39MohammadAG/usr/share/hildon-welcome.d/ I think
19:03.42erstazimyuu_: working on that, thanks
19:03.43MohammadAGand /etc/hildon-welcome/
19:03.45erstaziDocScrutinizer: thanks
19:03.51trouloulioui have a friend that have that option
19:04.34DocScrutinizerthere's no need to jumpstart battery. It's actually strongly deprecated and discourraged
19:05.00MohammadAGhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Welcome_screen
19:05.14jacekowskiyou know what
19:05.15*** join/#maemo Diod (~Diod@unaffiliated/diod)
19:05.15jacekowskiit's friday
19:05.17DocScrutinizerin fact a dead battery that causes red flashing might be rather dangerous to "jumpstart"
19:05.43DocScrutinizerjacekowski: actually
19:06.09DocScrutinizerjacekowski: noticed same thing/mood/symptoms some 6h ago :-P
19:06.17MohammadAGstarts saving for the Fender Rock Band 3 guitar
19:06.37MohammadAG$280 :(
19:06.39DocScrutinizerMohammadAG - the one man band
19:06.42javispedrotries to install some 1998 game in IdeaPad, let's see if that works with reasonable performance
19:07.04DocScrutinizerwith drumset on back and guitar in his hands
19:07.18DocScrutinizerhihat on his head
19:07.26DocScrutinizerblowing a harp
19:07.50RST38hMohammad: There is some experimental camera-based contraption that will let you do the air guitar -)
19:07.50MohammadAGno, I use beat-maker on the N900 for drums
19:08.09MohammadAGRST38h, I don't know how to play a guitar, let alone an air one :P
19:08.10DocScrutinizeroh, so no drumset in red wood anymore?
19:08.15RST38hjavispedro: I assume you tried VGBA already?
19:08.26RST38hMohammad: But that is the whole point of the air guitar! =)
19:08.54*** join/#maemo slonopotamus (~slonopota@80.90.124.130)
19:08.57DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: air guitar is easy, it's never detuned :-P
19:09.18troulouliouCOuld anybody tells me what is the best replacement for appManager cause here it takes like 2 minutes to refresh
19:09.31*** join/#maemo FIQ|n900 (~user@unaffiliated/fiq)
19:09.32troulouliouand synaptic can not be installed due to scrollkeeper broken package
19:09.33MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, heh
19:09.48DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nad you always get the right note
19:10.21MohammadAGI'm impressed with the N8's 300kbps BT speeds (with my laptop)
19:10.23DocScrutinizeryou just need to lear to shake your head like an idiot :-P
19:10.26MohammadAGI wonder if it's BT 3.0 or something
19:10.37MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, headbanging ftw :P
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19:11.26javispedroMohammadAG: 300? BT2.0 max should be 200 iirc
19:11.31DocScrutinizeralso air guitars are considerably lower price than fenders
19:11.31javispedroah
19:11.41javispedroa laptop with BT3.0? =)
19:12.28DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I have a few nice and cheap ones here, start at 20$
19:12.34MohammadAGno idea
19:12.42MohammadAGI just got 300
19:12.50MohammadAGis the N8 3.0?
19:13.13MohammadAGapparently, it is
19:13.17DocScrutinizererr, BT3.0?
19:13.43DocScrutinizerscratches head
19:13.53DocScrutinizerwasn't that the fake BT that'
19:13.56DocScrutinizers
19:14.01DocScrutinizeractually a WLAN?
19:14.31MohammadAGno, it's BT3.0 :)
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19:18.47DocScrutinizerBluetooth 3.0 + HS (auch Seattle Release genannt) ... Unterstützung eines zusätzlichen Highspeed-Kanals auf Basis von WLAN und UWB
19:18.57DocScrutinizerhttp://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth
19:19.43javispedroAber ich spreche nür ein bischen Deutsch!
19:20.07javispedrohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Bluetooth_v3.0_.2B_HS
19:20.12comawhiteanyone using Qt in Maemo?
19:23.27MohammadAGmost of the developers probably
19:24.23javispedrodammit
19:24.47javispedroanyone knows what's the protocol apple uses for cdrom sharing?
19:24.52javispedrototally offtopic question =)
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19:25.19MohammadAGjavispedro, probably sftp :P
19:25.35MohammadAGdubbed as iShareCDs
19:25.44DocScrutinizerN8 official Nokia specs: Bluetooth Spezifikation 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate)
19:26.32kerioMohammadAG: i doubt it
19:26.36kerioit doesn't share files
19:27.49luke-jrDocScrutinizer: uh, so?
19:28.04DocScrutinizerluke-jr: eh, yes?
19:28.06MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I see
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19:28.54javispedrosmb for sharing cds with a netbook plain sucks
19:29.15javispedrono block access, smb process hogs mount point, etc etc
19:29.28javispedros/smb process/smb process and/or windows client
19:30.51DocScrutinizerjavispedro: remote scsi?
19:31.12javispedrooooh
19:31.14javispedrothanksssssss
19:31.30javispedrothere's a windows client for that seems
19:32.12DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'm just babbling buzzwords
19:32.58javispedroexactly what I'm looking for, buzzwords to google
19:34.35DocScrutinizerjavispedro: btw "nür" is quite charming
19:35.32DocScrutinizerthe rest was too perfect to be true
19:36.00javispedroheh
19:40.52korhojoahmm. the n900 should be able to be upgraded to bt 3.0, right? it's got bt 2.1 with edr and wlan, which is all that is required
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19:41.12SpeedEvilkorhojoa: probably not.
19:41.30korhojoawhy not?
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19:42.10SpeedEvilkorhojoa: The BT and wlan interfaces are not designed to work together.
19:42.24korhojoaisn't that all about the drivers to make it happen?
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19:42.37SpeedEvilThey require very intimate scheduling to make it happen - below the level of what drivers do.
19:42.50korhojoaah, okay.
19:42.52kerio:(
19:42.56SpeedEvilThink more of 'machine gun firing through propellor' than 'flying in formation'
19:43.18korhojoaThat is an interesting way to describe it
19:43.46SpeedEvilI couldn't think of a car analogy. :(
19:44.14korhojoamore like firing injectors than changing gears
19:44.29SpeedEvilthat works
19:44.48SpeedEvilhas a open-source ECU he needs to put together.
19:45.21korhojoamegasquirt?
19:45.27SpeedEvilyes
19:45.42korhojoaheh. a friend of mine has built a few
19:46.45korhojoahe's got a go-fast button :D
19:46.54SpeedEvil:)
19:46.59korhojoafor racing, it totally screws up emissions but gives him like 35 hp
19:47.05SpeedEvilI was actually more wondering about go slow buttons.
19:47.10RST38hMhm, CNN is covering the black friday as if it were some highly important global event
19:47.15korhojoaahh, saving fuel?
19:47.19SpeedEvilAnd extra measures - for example - cylinder idling
19:47.23SpeedEvilyes
19:47.34SpeedEvilAlso pulse mode.
19:47.47SpeedEvilSomewhat similar to 'pulse and glide' - but implemented in the ECU
19:47.57korhojoainteresting
19:48.09SpeedEvilRun at near WOT all the time - and just pulse on and off.
19:48.15korhojoafiring only two cylinders at high rpms to save stuff?
19:48.24korhojoawhere stuff is fuel
19:48.34SpeedEvilthat sort of thing, yes.
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20:04.34slonopotamusis it possible to use n900 as a modem?
20:05.11BugBluebluetooth 'modem' or so?
20:05.11*** join/#maemo guysoft42 (~guysoft@188.225.180.66)
20:05.20slonopotamusyep, bt
20:05.34jacekowskiSpeedEvil: thing is that isn't firmware in wlan and bt module upgradeable
20:06.05jacekowskiSpeedEvil: i would go with option that hardware is capable of doing it - just firmware would need changing
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20:44.31comawhitewhy is there ARM and X86?
20:44.45GAN900comawhite, different purposes?
20:45.41comawhitelike?
20:46.46GAN900comawhite, Wikipedia really sounds like a good place to start here.
20:47.13MohammadAGarchitecture is a good keyword
20:47.46GAN900Federal or Ranch?
20:47.47Nomait's like asking why there is Xbox and Playstation...
20:48.07MohammadAGno
20:48.19MohammadAGthat's a bad example :P
20:48.54*** join/#maemo tank-man (1000@S010600121729c6a1.vc.shawcable.net)
20:48.56Nomawell, they are from different developers and do a nearly same thing but are not compatible with each other
20:49.14dRbiGgee
20:49.25dRbiGNoma: read about each of them :)
20:49.58Nomai know what the difference is, but i just tried to find an analogue
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20:50.01dRbiGoh, sorry, meant to addres comawhite
20:50.32dRbiGi guess i'm tired
20:50.42comawhitei just need the gist of it ;P
20:51.21dRbiGthe gist is that arm is embedded and x86 is old and not for embedded appilcations
20:52.24comawhitesorry I mean why is there both x86 and arm on the maemo sdk
20:52.42dRbiGooo
20:52.50*** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1)
20:52.52comawhitesorry I should have been more clear
20:54.08dRbiGbecause you do developement on a 'big' computer with x86
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21:07.55KaRaan25ro_Hello!!!
21:08.29KaRaan25ro_who can I ask about a probem I have with Canola2 on my N900?
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21:09.41KaRaan25ro_who can I ask about a probem I have with Canola2 on my N900?
21:11.09jacekowskiask here
21:11.26comawhiteKaRaan25ro_, no need to repeatedly ask
21:11.46KaRaan25ro_on the channal?
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21:11.54comawhiteno the phone
21:12.09comawhiteyes
21:12.14KaRaan25ro_ok
21:12.25KaRaan25ro_sorry... don't know the rules
21:12.27KaRaan25ro_so...
21:12.59comawhitei have no idea about your question
21:13.31KaRaan25ro_I have installed Canola2 on my N900 but since I couldn't find a version for N900 I have installed one for N810 and it works fine but I can't type
21:13.52KaRaan25ro_the keyboard does not respond to the comands
21:14.06KaRaan25ro_so I can't login to Picasa, for example
21:15.02comawhiteblah scratchbox's site gives horrible speed
21:15.20KaRaan25ro_?
21:15.41comawhitei have a 3 GB/s connection and only getting 100-200KB/s
21:16.57jacekowski3GB/s?
21:17.01jacekowskiWOW
21:17.23KaRaan25ro_what is that have to do with the fact my N900 keyboard does not work in Canola2?
21:17.27jacekowskiwhole datacentre could run on that
21:17.51GAN900KaRaan25ro_, Enlightenment's keyboard input is broken.
21:18.00GAN900Dunno if there's a workaround
21:18.11KaRaan25ro_aha
21:18.15GAN900May be able to scare somebody up in #canola for specifics.
21:18.45KaRaan25ro_so there's no way I can make it work... the only option is just to forget about Canola on N900
21:19.24KaRaan25ro_no one on that channel says anything
21:19.56Choompeople aren't exactly there (or here) awaiting questions
21:20.07Choomregard IRC as you woul regard a sticky note
21:20.17Choompost the question and come back later to see if there's an answer
21:20.42KaRaan25ro_ok... well in the meantime all I have to do is NOT logout, right?
21:20.44GAN900What's the other one?
21:20.48GAN900Media Center?
21:21.29*** join/#maemo hd (~jd@unaffiliated/jd)
21:22.30KaRaan25ro_I have no idea... the last time I have used IRC was more than 10 years ago so I got the instructions to login here from someone I wrote an email to help me this this problem
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21:34.20corecodeanybody else also interested in having modest put sent mail on imap?
21:34.49nidOyes
21:34.56crashanddieKaRaan25ro_: right, basically, reponse times can vary from seconds to hours depending on the channel you're in
21:35.07nidOand all the other things that would actually make it function as an imap mail client :<
21:35.07corecodenidO: found some solution already?
21:35.12crashanddieKaRaan25ro_: it's friday evening in Europe though, so most people won't be very active
21:35.24corecodenidO: what is missing?
21:35.36nidOcorecode: currently my best solution to having a functioning imap client on my n900 is to simply carry me e90 as well.
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21:36.45corecodenidO: what is missing?
21:37.13KaRaan25ro_crashanddie: if I leave an email address for potential answers, do you think I'd have a chance of response?
21:37.27nidOwell as you say lack of sent messages on the server, imap-idle being disabled, no local folder subscriptions are the 3 major huge enormous flaws imo
21:37.28digitalstimulusdoes anyone know where PiTiVi config settings are located in ~/?
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21:37.40crashanddieKaRaan25ro_: slim to none
21:37.48digitalstimulussorry, wrong channel
21:37.57KaRaan25ro_great...
21:38.10KaRaan25ro_thanks anyway... I'll keep on searching
21:38.19corecodenidO: what are local folder subscriptions?
21:38.48nidOcorecode: being able to set which folders you're subscribed to locally rather than amending the server-side account-wide subscriptions
21:38.54crashanddieKaRaan25ro_: how about you restate your problem in a relatively short and concise sentence?
21:39.35KaRaan25ro_i can't type anything in Canola2 on my N900 :)
21:39.48corecodenidO: ah
21:40.31crashanddieKaRaan25ro_: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6511
21:40.32povbotBug 6511: Unable to type text in Canola on N900
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21:41.16KaRaan25ro_I found that link a few seconds ago too
21:41.20KaRaan25ro_thank you!
21:41.46crashanddieKaRaan25ro_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=429114#post429114
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21:44.09corecodeoh what?  remote drafts work, but remote sent mail doesn't?
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21:46.37KaRaan25ro_crashanddie: thank you for the link... I hope to find a way to repair it :)
21:46.52KaRaan25ro_Good night toall
21:47.18SpeedEviljacekowski: The problem is that it requires very low-level coordination of packets and radios. I don't think the bluetooth module can do this.
21:47.38SpeedEviljacekowski: at least - typically. Also - the bluetooth module is much 'smarter' than the wlan one.
21:48.19SpeedEviljacekowski: It does quite a lot internally, whereas the wlan one is - more or less (on the transmit side) software builds a packet, and tells the hardware exactly when to transmit.
21:49.02SpeedEviljacekowski: Also - session-migration between two modes is fun, and there may not be enough internal data exposed.
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21:49.23jacekowskithat's up to firmware to decide
21:49.26SpeedEviljacekowski: for example, this precludes GSM->wifi bridging.
21:49.28jacekowskiwhat is exposed
21:49.35SpeedEvilFirmware and hardware.
21:49.46*** join/#maemo disco_stu (~wrt54gl@190.216.32.137)
21:51.32SpeedEvilAlso - assuming for a moment that it's a CSR radio - that I think it is - most of the bluetooth code is closed.
21:51.52SpeedEvilYou can run software on the chip, but it's not allowed to see the insides of the bluetooth stack.
21:52.10SpeedEvilactually - no - it's broadcom
21:52.18SpeedEvildunno how that architecture works.
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21:55.29corecodeany hints how to change the brightness of the front camera?
21:59.17GAN900corecode, add a 12k
22:00.47corecodehuh?
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22:10.56SpeedEvilcorecode: A 1000W floodlamp
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22:12.54corecodethis channel is as useless as ever
22:13.31GAN900corecode, evidently you've not been entertained.
22:13.36GAN900kills himself.
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22:20.31alteregoI don't believe it ..
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22:24.17SpeedEvilcorecode: In principle, you could obtain the NDA'd datasheet of the cam
22:24.46corecodewell, something fiddles with the brightness
22:24.52corecodebecause sometimes it is completely dark
22:24.57corecodeand sometimes not
22:24.59corecodeso...
22:29.28MohammadAGhmm, how do i disable a hildon button?
22:29.39MohammadAGI use setEnabled(bool) in Qt
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22:33.24comawhiteanyone know why I get this error? E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable.
22:33.53alteregoNasty, you didn't install on a fat partition did you? ^.^
22:33.59comawhitetrying to install scratchbox
22:34.19*** join/#maemo Termana (~bradley@123-3-151-116.static.dsl.dodo.com.au)
22:34.34Termanagood morning
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22:41.04jacekowskiis there anything worth seeing in paris?
22:41.49alteregoaloha
22:42.52crashanddiejacekowski: quite a few museums, very nice clubs, bars and cafés, good restaurants as well. Historical places, eiffel tower, etc.
22:43.05crashanddiejacekowski: pretty much as much to see in Paris as say, London.
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22:43.24crashanddieTermana: g'day
22:46.19DocScrutinizermy weekend toy: http://www.kkcomputer.de/Default.aspx?tabid=34&txtSearch=cabstone solar charger&List=0&SortField=0&ProductID=12476&Pics=1
22:46.39pupnikthe people who are stealing the money are the criminals
22:46.40pupnikthe people who are murdering the people are the criminals
22:49.23ShadowJKweekend toy?
22:49.37DocScrutinizerjust unpacking it
22:50.06ShadowJKI've been trying to find a similar device, but thermoelectric instead of photovoltaic
22:50.11DocScrutinizerfunny device, 7.77€ yesterday's special
22:50.34ShadowJKThey're worth it even without the panel :-)
22:50.40ShadowJK(if otherwise in working order)
22:50.45DocScrutinizeryep
22:51.04SpeedEvilis idly pondering a large solar panel.
22:51.05*** join/#maemo guysoft42 (~guysoft@bzq-109-65-38-170.red.bezeqint.net)
22:51.08SpeedEvil(~1Kw)
22:51.22SpeedEvilSolar cells are cheap on ebay, and I have this big pile of bus-windows.
22:52.02ShadowJKwants something like http://www.tegpower.com/products.html
22:52.37SpeedEvilThe efficiency is unfortunately laughable.
22:52.46SpeedEvilBut not useless if you've got a free source of heat.
22:53.00DocScrutinizerI'd use mirrors to multiply the light on them, and cool them with liquid I'd use to do thermosolar
22:53.31ShadowJKwood is free from own forest (takes work though) :-)
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22:54.53SpeedEvilpasses ShadowJK a newcomen beam engine.
23:03.13DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:48 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process (20631) terminated with status 2
23:03.15DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:48 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning
23:03.16DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:50 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process (20650) terminated with status 2
23:03.18DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:50 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning
23:03.19DocScrutinizerGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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23:10.03DocScrutinizerincredble
23:10.38DocScrutinizerguess flashlight-extra uninstall scripts need a bit of love until it may promote to extras
23:11.48Proteouslol
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23:12.04alteregobluetooth streaming is working :D
23:12.15alteregotests with his N810
23:14.30alteregoWorking in master mode anyway, gotta setup slave mode next.
23:16.41alteregosweeeet :D
23:17.26myuu_what
23:17.35myuu_that sounds cool
23:17.45myuu_also my app manager is taking long to reload
23:17.50myuu_what can I do about that
23:18.06myuu_after an installation, its not slow in any other action
23:19.41marmouteI think it update after every installl.
23:20.39alteregoThere's something odd happpening, but it's kind of working :D
23:20.46myuu_oh you have it too
23:21.03myuu_yeah I dont mind it, i just change to another thing while I wait
23:21.21myuu_id like to know why its taking longer
23:21.38ShadowJKI think it's slower the more repositories (catalogs) you have enabled
23:22.32myuu_I only have extra-devel and maemo updates
23:22.49myuu_enabled, maybe its just a prob with extras-devel, ill check
23:22.55ShadowJKextra-devel would do it, it's huge :-)
23:22.59ShadowJKonly has extras
23:23.03myuu_well that makes sense
23:23.10myuu_ill time it vs extras
23:25.16alteregoSomething appears to be blocking my application.
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23:47.41alteregoThis is quite fun :)
23:48.23alteregoN900+Columbus --(via bluetooth)--> Laptop : Displayig my position on a map.
23:48.30alteregoWorks with the N810 pretty well too.
23:49.02alteregoSo, I think it's safe to say that it works with anything that can read NMEA.
23:50.59alteregoI think tomorrow, I'm going to drop it into my gfs' bag, and get it to stream over 2G to my server, then grab that stream from my server and use socat to create a serial device, then display it on a map.
23:51.55SpeedEvilVoice recording too, remember.
23:52.47SpeedEvilAlso FFT the accellerometer to reveal rhythmical motion in the 0.5-5Hz range.
23:52.55alteregowhy?
23:53.00alteregoHeh
23:53.32alteregoI was thinking of using my FFT to detect bottlenecks in a journey.
23:53.41alteregoAnd basically detect when you're not moving.
23:54.35alteregoI'm suprised at how crap all the GPS apps I've found for Linux are though :/
23:57.31jacekowskitomtom is linux based
23:58.55alterego-_-
23:59.14*** join/#maemo nidO (nidO@dsl-fixed-94-30-53-17.interdsl.co.uk)
23:59.37alteregoSomething that'll run on a desktop distro, that's foss

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