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| 17:14.11 | freemangordon | merlin1991: BTW I don't get it why the hack in README-SCRATCHBOX is needed to build glibc |
| 17:14.24 | freemangordon | I can uild glibc happily without it |
| 17:14.30 | freemangordon | build even |
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| 18:11.35 | _ade_ | freemangordon: congrats, all the tz changes I expected are in place now with the extra diff file. |
| 18:13.14 | freemangordon | _ade_: good, I'll push the changes on gitorious and put .debs in cssu-devel as soon as you confirm everything is working as it should |
| 18:14.32 | _ade_ | don't forget the dependency to the new libcityinfo. I will do some further testing. |
| 18:19.07 | freemangordon | _ade_: you mean for packages in cssu-devel? hmm, what exactly is the dependency? |
| 18:21.05 | _ade_ | freemangordon: well the modified wdb file from libcityinfo relates to the modified timezone files |
| 18:21.15 | freemangordon | ok |
| 18:21.31 | freemangordon | won't forget then :) |
| 18:21.44 | freemangordon | waiting for your confirmation... |
| 18:45.57 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: yes |
| 18:45.58 | merlin1991 | and then you check your syssomething header |
| 18:45.58 | merlin1991 | and ooooh |
| 18:45.58 | merlin1991 | ppoll is disabled |
| 18:45.58 | merlin1991 | and then you run childspin with the happily built glibc, and it instastalls |
| 18:45.58 | freemangordon | merlin1991: oh, wait |
| 18:45.58 | merlin1991 | and then you realize that bastard of a system did not take your kernel headers |
| 18:46.46 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ok, but how to pass the kernel headers directory? |
| 18:46.47 | merlin1991 | unless ofc you have the modfied kernel headers in /usr/include then it works |
| 18:46.57 | merlin1991 | there is some env variable |
| 18:47.09 | merlin1991 | which also doesn't matter without the patch |
| 18:47.10 | freemangordon | merlin1991: which one, couldn't find it |
| 18:47.14 | merlin1991 | err gimme a second |
| 18:47.30 | freemangordon | merlin1991: what about copying kernel headers in debian/include? |
| 18:47.31 | merlin1991 | because that env variable is added as gcc -isysem flag |
| 18:47.38 | merlin1991 | after the spec file ... |
| 18:48.56 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: look it takes either headers from that env variable or from /usr/include then does some magic to them and after that builds with "-isystem $pkgroot/debian/include" |
| 18:48.56 | merlin1991 | BUT |
| 18:49.30 | merlin1991 | our fancy scratchbox prepends the build with -isystem /usr/include which renders that moot |
| 18:49.30 | merlin1991 | unless ofc you build with your thumb compiler, because that one does not have the same spec iirc |
| 18:49.31 | freemangordon | merlin1991: hmm, wait |
| 18:49.36 | freemangordon | gcc -g -O2 -isystem /home/ivo/workspace/cssu/glibc/debian/include ... |
| 18:49.52 | freemangordon | that is how configure calls gcc |
| 18:50.14 | freemangordon | and I guess cmdline overrides gcc.specs |
| 18:50.22 | merlin1991 | nope |
| 18:50.27 | merlin1991 | commandline adds to specs |
| 18:50.35 | merlin1991 | commandline gets added after the specs stuff |
| 18:50.49 | freemangordon | hmm, I am sure that is how I build glibc by the time I was testing ppoll/pselect patch |
| 18:51.09 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ok, it is the same |
| 18:51.31 | merlin1991 | well at least for me without the specs hack it took the wronger headers and stalled on childspin |
| 18:51.32 | freemangordon | the last one passed to the cmd line overwrites previous |
| 18:51.53 | merlin1991 | eventually I put some pragma to make the build stop when it includes the header and it hapilly ran past it |
| 18:52.06 | freemangordon | merlin1991: did you try to copy headers to debian/include? |
| 18:52.12 | merlin1991 | that's when I realized that it takes the headers from elsewhere |
| 18:52.30 | merlin1991 | that's done by the buildscript at some point |
| 18:53.29 | freemangordon | oh, maybe I installed kernel-cssu headers |
| 18:53.43 | freemangordon | and removed omap1 |
| 18:53.55 | freemangordon | can't remember right now |
| 18:54.15 | freemangordon | merlin1991: BTW while you're here - what about pestering chem|st about new -stable? |
| 18:54.38 | merlin1991 | good idea |
| 18:55.07 | freemangordon | merlin1991: and another big one - merging -thumb with -testing (and eventually -stable at some point)? |
| 18:55.35 | freemangordon | that depends on Pali's laptop being finally repaired ofc :D |
| 18:55.57 | freemangordon | so kcssu finally to enter -testing |
| 18:56.41 | freemangordon | BTW I just build glibc with -mthumb, going to test it ;) |
| 18:57.52 | _ade_ | freemangordon: did some more sampling on correctness, especially towards GMT +0 (could mean missing city). Nothing out of the ordinary. And I was using new tz files for a long time (for what it is worth :-)) |
| 18:57.52 | merlin1991 | LINUX_SOURCE is the env it should take |
| 18:57.53 | _ade_ | Rebooted and all okay. |
| 18:58.46 | freemangordon | _ade_: good |
| 18:59.04 | merlin1991 | it's in debian/sysdeps/linux.mk starting line 27 there the buildscript decides which headers to use and symlinks them in debian/include to finally add them via export CPPFLAGS = -isystem $(shell pwd)/debian/include |
| 18:59.23 | freemangordon | will push those 2 packages in -devel in a couple of hours |
| 18:59.38 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ok, got it |
| 19:00.13 | freemangordon | merlin1991: so I'll just install KP headers and will remove omap1 when building glibc |
| 19:00.31 | merlin1991 | yep that is a solution too |
| 19:15.35 | freemangordon | merlin1991: what about "and another big one - merging -thumb with -testing (and eventually -stable at some point)?" |
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| 20:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | [merging -thumb with -testing (and eventually -stable at some point)] could you please make a copy of last *sane* CSSU for all those not interested in swapping their complete system of their daily phone for something new? |
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| 20:18.13 | sixwheeledbeast | merging thumb with testing makes sense, especially since practically everyone on testing uses thumb. |
| 20:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I know i'm the only one still using testing |
| 20:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | however nothing in testing makes sense when it's not meant to enter stable sooner or later |
| 20:24.42 | sixwheeledbeast | I suppose, that's a fair point. |
| 20:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and once we go for thumb, we definitely strayed from any sane path of keeping compatibility to other stuff that messes with kernel, like multiboot, uboot, you-never-heard-of-it-till-user-starts-bitching |
| 20:25.36 | sixwheeledbeast | However, why can stable not have a thumb and non-thumb version? |
| 20:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure it can |
| 20:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I suggested exactly that, over in tmo |
| 20:32.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1383697#post1383697 |
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| 22:13.54 | _ade_ | freemangordon: I don't think we need to have libc6 depend on libcityinfo0-0. A new libcityinfo0 should have the right libc6 dependency. |
| 22:14.03 | _ade_ | If the old libcityinfo is in place, some references may be out of date, but nothing serious. |
| 22:14.10 | freemangordon | _ade_: sure |
| 22:14.35 | _ade_ | sorry for any confusion |
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| 23:03.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe we should not only make sure that all thumb-binaries reliably bail out the very moment they got started when kernel/system doesn't support thumb |
| 23:04.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | we alsi should define a minimum requirements for system to work even when a full thumbification gets busted by wrong kernel - it still shouldn't result in a bootloop that's not recoverable |
| 23:06.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think it might be a reasonable requirement that a system in such pathological state still offers a self-contained way to recover, e.g by unconditionally loading HAM which mustn't segfault and must allow to install thumb-enabled kernel or in any other way successively recover from that situation |
| 23:07.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | all thumbification then had to make sure that such recovery is always possible |
| 23:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | i.e. it shouldn't be allowed to thumbify the init process (upstart, eh?) and the init shell |
| 23:11.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | then the init shell can test for proper system support of thumb and branch to an emergency recovery scheme when that support is missing |
| 23:17.38 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm, that one sounds sane |
| 23:17.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! :-) |
| 23:19.32 | freemangordon | though... I was thinking of thumb-compiling glibc, so maybe a way to achieve ^^^, is to have non-thumbified libc6 (and all other needed libs) somewhere in /lib/non-thumb/ |
| 23:20.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | or bind statically |
| 23:20.23 | freemangordon | busybox? |
| 23:20.37 | freemangordon | might work |
| 23:20.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm |
| 23:21.04 | freemangordon | preinit script is executed by /bin/sh afaik |
| 23:21.15 | freemangordon | which is BB imo |
| 23:21.34 | freemangordon | but should be possible to be done |
| 23:22.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, you might pull in a statically linked non-thumb miinimal aka standard version of busybox to do that initial testing. Could exec to busybox-power-thumb when test been success |
| 23:22.34 | freemangordon | exactly |
| 23:23.23 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no -power- :) unless it enters cssu some day :) |
| 23:24.12 | freemangordon | anyway, I'll think about some runtime protection |
| 23:24.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | for that thumb version that gets explicitly started by init scripts and is not needed to run nit initially, I don't mind |
| 23:24.49 | freemangordon | yeah, should make no difference |
| 23:25.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | can be busybox-super-mega-power and live on eMMC and eat 200MB there |
| 23:25.08 | freemangordon | no |
| 23:25.16 | freemangordon | this must be on rootfs |
| 23:25.26 | freemangordon | nothing elese is mounted at that point |
| 23:25.31 | freemangordon | *else |
| 23:25.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, you have postpone the exec then |
| 23:25.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | until eMMC mounted |
| 23:26.16 | freemangordon | checking for thumb support in the kernel should be the first think to be done in preinit script IMO |
| 23:26.23 | freemangordon | *thing |
| 23:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could even bindmount the bb-supadupa from eMMC on top of the original one in rootfs |
| 23:27.11 | freemangordon | I can't as it will be the thumbified bb that will contain the mount and it could sigill ;) |
| 23:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | for those who think bb-supadupa is absolutely mandatory for init, for whatever reason |
| 23:27.44 | freemangordon | so the first sh to run should be non-thumb |
| 23:27.54 | freemangordon | sh/bb |
| 23:28.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: you should consider if you want to start a business with neo900 group |
| 23:28.55 | freemangordon | hmm, business as in? |
| 23:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need or rather want an OS |
| 23:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should have added value that's stuff like VPN, cryptfs, another few goodies, and it should have support from maintainer for registered users, and we would ship it with each Neo900 and pay you per device sold |
| 23:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could even offer monthly or per-year registration to the servers offering the updates and stuff |
| 23:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course I think it should be based on fremantle ;-) |
| 23:32.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically you could run a SSU |
| 23:35.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course we don't expect new software getting developed, just distro maintenance basically |
| 23:36.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you package a distro (much like SuSE did in former times, and still does with SLES etc) and you charge for that service |
| 23:36.24 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is that I can work on that project only in my spare time, which is a bit limited |
| 23:37.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you think you could coordinate a group of developers all willing to work on it parttime and share the dollars? |
| 23:37.24 | freemangordon | I think yes |
| 23:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you think you could *find* such group of developers? |
| 23:37.52 | freemangordon | though, keep in mind, I am not doing all this stuff for money ;) |
| 23:38.00 | freemangordon | no, this is a big problem |
| 23:38.15 | freemangordon | I can;t even find good developers for my dayly job |
| 23:38.16 | dos1 | is interested |
| 23:38.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: see? ^^^ :-) |
| 23:38.53 | freemangordon | yeah :) |
| 23:38.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: maybe just try a tiny bit harder ;-) |
| 23:39.31 | dos1 | I'm available at around half-time next semester ;) |
| 23:40.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course we (Neo900) are willing to place adds to the website and do whatever we can to find devels for your group |
| 23:40.22 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: see, if I am going to get money for a job, I should be involved more than my free time allows. remember, there are other people that count on me for a job to be done :) |
| 23:41.48 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: anyway, let me have some time to think about that stuff |
| 23:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 23:42.30 | freemangordon | (and to finally find the reason why gcc4.7.2 screwes glibc locales) |
| 23:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we maybe can slightly modify the whole business model when you e.g. say you don't want to run SSU infra, we can find somebody else for doing that |
| 23:43.36 | freemangordon | maybe some of the ex-nokians would be interested |
| 23:43.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible |
| 23:46.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if anybody else is listening and thinking "Umm, *I* could do *that*" - don't hesitate to ping me or send a mail to contact at neo900.org. We are not picky about who's "boss" of such project |