IRC log for #maemo-ssu on 20140103

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16:22.27freemangordonsolofight: hi
16:23.35freemangordonsolofight: you said you want to participate in fremantle porting to neo900
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16:44.46freemangordonsolofight: here
16:45.28freemangordonsolofight: but I guess you first need to install ssh server on your device and ScratchBox on your desktop :)
16:45.33freemangordon~sb
16:45.34infobotfrom memory, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, or hosted by maemo.org now, maintainer thedead1440
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16:46.17solofightfreemangordon: am here :)
16:46.18solofighthow can i help with the kernel dev ?
16:46.36freemangordonsolofight: do you have kernel development skills?
16:46.53freemangordonsolofight: for example cameras don;t work in upstream
16:47.16freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: o praticular reason, just...
16:47.18freemangordon*no
16:47.37freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: some kind of gut feeling :)
16:47.45solofighti have been programming applications on platforms - this will be the first time to program the platform itself (kernel)
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16:48.19solofightfreemangordon: gut feeling ? dont understand why you pasted his messages here to me
16:48.29freemangordonsolofight: it was to DocScrutinizer05
16:48.32DocScrutinizer05pretty poor excuse for abandoning tested optimized N900 kernel for the known-poor-powermanagement 3.x
16:49.02freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: we should have plan B if we fail to port 2.6.28
16:49.44freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: BTW, if we manage to do it right, I think 3.14 and up will have better PM than stock
16:50.37DocScrutinizer05we shouldn't start with plan B while ignoring more pressing affairs like RE of the bits we can't port anyway
16:51.03freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: 1 more function to go :P (fmtxd that is)
16:51.24freemangordonsolofight: any idea what IDA is?
16:52.15solofightfreemangordon: nope
16:52.37DocScrutinizer05alsaped
16:52.50freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: closed?
16:53.02DocScrutinizer05isn't it?
16:53.06freemangordonNFC
16:53.28freemangordon"E: Unable to find a source package for alsaped"
16:53.29DocScrutinizer05friggin policy enforcer daemon nobody is able to grok
16:53.45freemangordonso... closed
16:53.51DocScrutinizer05sure
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16:54.21freemangordonarcean_: hi!
16:54.26DocScrutinizer05as are the errr prolog(?) scenario descriptions
16:54.45freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I think pali groks those
16:54.48freemangordonme not :)
16:55.04DocScrutinizer05not really, he just RE'd them
16:55.13freemangordonit was more than 20 years I touched prolog for the last time
16:55.29DocScrutinizer05that's just like stating you grok alsaped since you can disassemble it
16:55.35freemangordonand it has a bit of weird syntax
16:56.00freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that'd be truee, you can't do a good RE if you don;t understand what it does
16:56.02DocScrutinizer05we have no clue what API this shit has
16:56.43freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ok, maybe I'll fire IDA agains alsaped after I finish with fmtxd. If it has x86 binary
16:56.50freemangordon*against
16:56.54DocScrutinizer05pali just created prolog source from the compiled version
16:57.09solofightfreemangordon: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83447&page=2 ???
16:57.10freemangordonhe changed some stuff there
16:57.36DocScrutinizer05at least to me it's *completely* obscure how this whole abomination works
16:57.58DocScrutinizer05starting at API down to the prolog stuff and it's semantics
16:58.29solofightis there a way to emulate the os on my PC like the android emulator or the blackberry simulator ?
16:58.44freemangordonsolofight: toldya, scratchbox
16:58.58freemangordonsee the backscroll
16:58.59solofightsearched and found a project yesterday which promised it but all download links seems to be 404 and project is no more existing
16:59.15DocScrutinizer05hell, I can't even say I had a faint idea about PA itself
16:59.38freemangordonsolofight: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
16:59.52freemangordondo not use gui installer
16:59.56solofightthanks freemangordon
17:00.07freemangordonand use mirror, nokia links are dead
17:00.15solofightwhy not the gui installer ?
17:00.19freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: me neither
17:00.26freemangordonsolofight: it is broken
17:00.32solofightgot it
17:00.56solofightwill meet you tomorrow morning with the installer version in my pc  (and the SSH on my mobile to play with apmefo :P)
17:00.57freemangordonsolofight: what OS is your desktop?
17:01.00solofightgud nyt all
17:01.06solofightwin7
17:01.09freemangordonOMG
17:01.22solofighti am planning to put ubuntu 12 or bt5 on it
17:01.25solofightas dual boot
17:01.33solofightwhy ?
17:01.44freemangordonubuntu12.04 will do the job for SB
17:01.49solofightsb ?
17:01.56freemangordonScratchBox
17:01.58DocScrutinizer05~sb
17:01.58infobothmm... scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, or hosted by maemo.org now, maintainer thedead1440
17:02.00solofight:P ok
17:02.17solofightgot to get used to all acronyms that you people are suing here :P
17:02.31DocScrutinizer05ask infobot
17:02.31freemangordonanyway, I am back to REing fmtxd
17:02.34DocScrutinizer05;-)
17:02.46solofight~fmtxd
17:02.47thedead1440__has got to get used to being highlighted too ;)
17:02.56DocScrutinizer05~pkg
17:02.56infobot[pkg] http://maemo.org/packages/
17:03.13solofightwhat is fmtxd ?
17:03.18solofightfreemangordon: ^
17:03.28solofightRE = reverse engineer ?
17:03.38freemangordonyep
17:03.49solofightfmtxd ?
17:04.02freemangordonsolofight: FM transmitter daemon
17:04.12DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Media_Player
17:04.15solofightah ok
17:04.21DocScrutinizer05find "fmtxd"
17:05.13solofightah ok, FM handsfree FM txn/rxn
17:05.24DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/FM_Transmitter_API_Usage
17:05.44freemangordonsolofight: you're aware that n900 has FM transmitter, ain't?
17:06.03DocScrutinizer05wtf is http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmtx-middleware-doc/
17:06.14solofightdo you guys know that transmitting audio over a set frequency in a moving vehicle the freq drops !
17:06.20solofightyes
17:06.25solofightfreemangordon: ^
17:06.26freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: fmtxd is part of fmtx-middleware ;)
17:06.42solofighton moving vehicle the transmitter works poor
17:06.54DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_nokia-binaries_explicit_armel/fmtx-middleware-doc/0.55+0m5/  F U
17:07.31freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hmm?
17:07.44DocScrutinizer05solofight: that#s the Doppler effect ;-P
17:08.00DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: empty friggn docs pkg
17:08.08freemangordonooh, empty
17:08.09solofightDocScrutinizer05: i know i already asked you this, but just exploring the possibilities .... any possibility at all to have suitable hardware which supports dual sim in neo 900
17:08.21solofightif yes - it will be my dream phone --- seriously
17:08.40DocScrutinizer05solofight: the modem currently doesn't support that
17:09.06solofightnothing can stand infront of neo900 then
17:09.18DocScrutinizer05[2014-01-02 13:54:16] <Leverator> Will the neo900 have two SIM connectors?
17:09.19DocScrutinizer05[2014-01-02 14:24:32] <-- Leverator has left this server (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
17:09.21DocScrutinizer05[2014-01-02 14:29:23] <DocScrutinizer05> even while s/he left: P*S8 modem modules for now do not support DSDS, so no real benefit from adding a second SIM tray. But we are keeping an eye on that as well, asking Gemalto if maybe their future pin-compatible modules support DSDS and if so, then on which pads of the footprint. If we receive according info from them, we will adapt our design accordingly, allowing hw or even sw/fw(!!!)
17:09.22DocScrutinizer05upgrade to DSDS
17:09.27solofightDocScrutinizer05: how about a change in the modem ?
17:10.10freemangordonsolofight: are you kidding?
17:10.41solofightfreemangordon: never
17:10.54solofightrequest for a dual sim sound like kidding ?
17:11.19DocScrutinizer05the modems we originally planned to use had DSDS, but were too high and discontinued
17:11.30freemangordonsolofight: the only one that can change anything in the modem is the manifacturer of the modem. And I doubt Gemalto will do it
17:12.22DocScrutinizer05Gemalto definitely will not change a single byte for *us*. They however might eventually add DSDS to their product feature list for all their customers
17:12.29solofightlet me tell you this - ive spent some good time in the market and i neva found a matching phone to n900's capabilities and comfortness for me except for the dual sim feature
17:12.35solofightoh
17:12.43solofightwhy Gemalto then ?
17:13.01freemangordonsolofight: for various reasons, check neo900 thread on TMO
17:13.04DocScrutinizer05because the module fits and is actually available
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17:13.48DocScrutinizer05and they even disclose their docs to everybody, on informal request
17:14.22DocScrutinizer05and they seem really concerned about world coverage
17:14.52DocScrutinizer05the PXS8 even comes with both UMTS and CDMA2000
17:15.46DocScrutinizer05solofight: you're aware that dual-SIM doesn't automatically means dual-standby?
17:15.54DocScrutinizer05or even dual-online?
17:16.08solofightDocScrutinizer05: yes - atleast dual sim to start with
17:16.31DocScrutinizer05most dual- or even triple-SIM phones are silly convenience things that save you from swapping SIM
17:16.56solofightDocScrutinizer05: the one samsung uses is good as well right ? no idea about the producer though
17:17.06DocScrutinizer05Samsung does DSDS
17:17.08DocScrutinizer05yes
17:17.16solofightDocScrutinizer05: there is a good market for that feature
17:17.40DocScrutinizer05that's why I expect Gemalto to upgrade their modems to that freature
17:17.44solofightso samsung produces their own modem you say ? which has DSDS ?
17:18.02DocScrutinizer05nah, it's qualcom iirc
17:18.24solofightDocScrutinizer05: why can we use QUalcom ?
17:18.33solofightcant*
17:18.51DocScrutinizer05because no module with matching fitting formfactor exists
17:19.16solofightdamn
17:19.31solofightcant we order the custom size ?
17:19.45solofightbulk order would be considerd right ?
17:21.20jake42if we have 1M preorders for neo900 - sure :)
17:21.30solofightwhoa !
17:21.39jake42I mean one million :)
17:21.39DocScrutinizer051000 modules are a volume they don't consider stuff from shelf to us
17:22.28DocScrutinizer05they don't even change a single byte in firmware for us, on that order volume
17:22.53DocScrutinizer05*definitely* they won't develop a new smaller module hardware for us
17:23.39solofight:(
17:23.46DocScrutinizer05asking them for 1000000 modules, they will happily write a customized firmware for us
17:23.52solofightok off i go now and come here tomorrow
17:24.01solofightunderstand now
17:24.01DocScrutinizer05same here
17:24.24solofightbye all
17:24.28jake42bye
17:25.40DocScrutinizer05asking them for 10,000,000 modules they will look at us like we were idiots, since nobody uses modules for such quantities
17:26.02DocScrutinizer05bye solofight
17:26.26jake42that won't happen anyway :)
17:26.27DocScrutinizer05IOW no matter what we do, nobody will build a custom module for us
17:27.44DocScrutinizer05and - as I already said - we got advised to look for another module than the Option801
17:28.02DocScrutinizer05might be vaporware
17:28.35jake42hehe, atleast they don't let you wait for it
17:29.01DocScrutinizer05yeah, well, that's a kind supplier, not Option
17:29.18DocScrutinizer05RoundSolutions
17:30.24DocScrutinizer05we can't get Option modules from Option just like we can't get Gemalto modules directly from Gemalto
17:30.37DocScrutinizer05you always need retailers for that stuff
17:30.43jake42yep
17:31.04DocScrutinizer05as we can't get DM3730 SoCs form TI
17:31.07jake42should have bought nokia when the time was right :P
17:31.08DocScrutinizer05from*
17:32.07DocScrutinizer05Only big guys like Nokia or Samsung get the chips directly from chip manuf
17:33.11DocScrutinizer05we don't even need to bother give them a call, they will offer us a coffee and politely explain to us that they can't do business with us
17:33.34jake42they'll offer coffee?
17:33.59jake42I would have thought that they wouldn't even bother
17:34.35DocScrutinizer05nah, the real big guys often are surprisingly polite and kind
17:34.53DocScrutinizer05they take pride in that
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17:35.17DocScrutinizer05but only when you show up personally at their office
17:35.40jake42serving coffe over the phone is hard
17:35.43jake42i guess :)
17:35.43DocScrutinizer05same with Rolls Royce
17:35.59DocScrutinizer05or Daimler-Crysler
17:36.56DocScrutinizer05or Nokia ;-P
17:37.46DocScrutinizer05anyway, have to hurry, to get some shopping done
17:38.02DocScrutinizer05some food, and dinner
17:38.06DocScrutinizer05o/
17:39.00jake42me too..
17:39.01jake42bye
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