| 00:07.20 | *** join/#maemo-ssu amiconn_ (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 00:08.17 | *** join/#maemo-ssu DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
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| 03:04.33 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 03:05.21 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by DocScrutinizer05 -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo6; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo4.1 | Meeting: Thu. 1900UTC |
| 03:05.51 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by DocScrutinizer05 -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo6; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo4.1 | Meeting: Thu. 12-13 1900UTC |
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| 03:06.19 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 03:06.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: still awake? |
| 03:14.19 | merlin1991 | yep |
| 03:17.30 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: ^^ |
| 03:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yay, my highlighting audio is borked again |
| 03:42.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: you contacted reggie? |
| 03:43.46 | merlin1991 | well after you wrote your email I thought it isn't necessary anymore |
| 03:45.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | somehow reggie still needs an account, to do the ftp transfer |
| 03:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | needs credentials for such account |
| 03:46.06 | merlin1991 | true, I'll contact him |
| 03:46.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd however suggest rsync rather than ftp |
| 03:46.54 | merlin1991 | yep |
| 03:47.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 03:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for handling this |
| 03:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | this will be the end of maemo "community" anyway, when tmo goes out of business |
| 03:48.21 | merlin1991 | kinda sorta yes |
| 03:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders whether to open a yahoo-group or similar shit, and officially announce it as a stand-in for tmo |
| 03:50.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, I seem to recall my co-admin on my server installed some forum or blog or whatever |
| 03:50.38 | merlin1991 | hm does phpbb have a postgres plugin? |
| 03:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc |
| 03:51.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | reggie suggested that most foss forum software nowadays has a import function for VBulletin |
| 03:53.49 | merlin1991 | yep phpbb does do postgre |
| 03:59.18 | merlin1991 | and there seems to be a vbulleting converter for it aswell |
| 03:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) we *need* to archive all the knowledge in historic tmo |
| 04:02.59 | *** join/#maemo-ssu DocScrutinizer05 (~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:03.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
| 04:03.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-12 04:59:18] <merlin1991> and there seems to be a vbulleting converter for it aswell |
| 04:03.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-12 04:59:43] <DocScrutinizer05> a) we *need* to archive all the knowledge in historic tmo |
| 04:03.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-12 05:00:05] <DocScrutinizer05> b) we'd maybe want to allow continue using it as a forum |
| 04:03.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-12 05:00:45] <DocScrutinizer05> for a) any arbitrary archiving is fine, as long as it allows access and maybe searching |
| 04:03.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-12 05:01:26] <DocScrutinizer05> for b) we *might* consider to move the forum elsewhere |
| 04:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-12-12 05:02:15] <DocScrutinizer05> of course if we can keep a huge part of the properties and functionality of current tmo, that would be as good as it gets |
| 04:04.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and i'm honestly concerned about board *again* considering to "ask for volunteers" to administrate tmo |
| 04:05.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | figures e*_ volunteering |
| 04:05.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd think current moderators would be a very natural choice for next super-admin |
| 04:08.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders to get one of those 32GB RAM octocore dedicated server monsters, just to facilitate hosting of maemo stuff |
| 04:09.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, I probably even could reduce my taxes to pay, this way |
| 04:10.10 | merlin1991 | that would be sneaky :D |
| 04:10.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | 600EUR for first year, so what. I still could ask for donations to recompensate my expense |
| 04:13.01 | merlin1991 | hm you'd need to seperate the maemo stuff into several machines, I don't know any hoster where you easily get several ips todo it via virtualization, and 3 or 4 distinct server tend to be on the expensive side |
| 04:13.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, installing vservers seems a common practice |
| 04:14.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | additional IPs are 10bucks/year each I think |
| 04:14.38 | merlin1991 | well ie hetzner gives you 2 ipv4 addresses, for everything else you need to contact them especially |
| 04:15.11 | merlin1991 | and they don't advertise what their policy is for granting more |
| 04:16.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | IP-Adressen1 inkl., bis zu 4 möglich (server4you) :-S |
| 04:16.51 | merlin1991 | also I don't really like vservers :D |
| 04:17.55 | merlin1991 | running 5 things on the same machine in vserver for the sake of "security" is kinda moot in my eyes |
| 04:23.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, it's mainly not security but about maintainability |
| 04:24.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | safety |
| 04:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you easily reboot one vserver, without any impact on the other services running on same iron |
| 04:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | backup also way easier, in a certain way |
| 04:25.06 | merlin1991 | though why would you ever want to reboot a linux server ;) (unless ofc you got a new kernel installed) |
| 04:25.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, every now and then some weird lockups may happen |
| 04:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when e.g on one vserver the syslog explodes and brings the system to a grinding halt, you just reboot and fix that vserver, while rest of your stuff continues to work as usual |
| 04:26.36 | merlin1991 | in any case, I've mailed reggie myself now, we'll see what happens |
| 04:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, I *think* we could consolidate a *lot* |
| 04:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe running everything on one phy box |
| 04:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | without vservers |
| 04:28.03 | merlin1991 | I wouldn't run the build servers on the same box as the web presence |
| 04:28.19 | merlin1991 | that would be *awesome* if each and every build brings the forum to a grinding halt :/ |
| 04:28.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | better start 'small' but start, than design a monster infra that never gets established and paid for |
| 04:28.47 | merlin1991 | I'd go with 2 servers for small 1 everything but building and 1 build server |
| 04:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | how many builds we seen per day last time the buildhost worked |
| 04:29.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 04:30.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | how's been the duty cycle? |
| 04:30.19 | merlin1991 | hmbuildhost still works |
| 04:30.42 | merlin1991 | todays import into tiny extras-devel failed due to a fancy new package: Character 0x44 not allowed in package name: 'Defense_Gear'! |
| 04:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | does it really matter when we throttle buildhost down to a power where it takes 30min per pkg? |
| 04:31.15 | merlin1991 | well that would be the other way |
| 04:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, octocore, 32GB RAM, c'mon |
| 04:32.26 | merlin1991 | hm security update for perl on debian |
| 04:32.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | this has to be a friggin monster |
| 04:33.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really don't think that two servers with 64GB RAM each of Nokia's setup make any sense nowadays |
| 04:35.02 | merlin1991 | hm http://www.debian.org/security/2012/dsa-2582 |
| 04:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: hidden |
| 04:39.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: maemo.orginfrastructureforHildonFoundation.pdf |
| 04:39.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc why all that stuff isn't public |
| 04:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | "slim hosting" -> 11 servers |
| 04:42.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Virtual Machines - Full Environment Current HDD need: 1990 GB |
| 04:42.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | 18 VM, 5 dedicated servers with 64GB each |
| 04:43.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | for managing 2TB |
| 04:43.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and Nokia is *buying* the hw and dumping it at nemein, so board has to pay for colocation - INSANE |
| 04:44.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | board pays for colocation (rackspace, power, network data volume, aircon, hw-service) |
| 04:44.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | AND admin |
| 04:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | of nemein, which is of pretty poor quality, in my book |
| 04:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | sd69 hopes it will be cheaper than renting a dedicated server 8or two) at e.g. hetzner :-o |
| 04:47.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I suggested to ask nokia to NOT buy that shitty hardware and rather donate the money to board directly |
| 04:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we could pay for hosting of several dedicated servers, plus a lot of spare money to pay the openmoko sysadmins who offered to help on a professional paid basis, fultime |
| 04:49.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui Nokia is even willing to pay arbitrary amounts of migration effort, but so far only if that's done by ... (again) nemein :-( |
| 04:51.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess they insist on nemein since with them they already have contracts (and NDAs), and so Nokia doesn't need to worry about what to migrate and what to keep/delete from those irons |
| 04:56.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: yeah, hmm |
| 04:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | (xen) |
| 07:15.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I have a school-mate who is one of the owners of the datacenter, wonder shall I ask him if he can and is willing to help |
| 07:15.34 | freemangordon | *a datacenter |
| 07:15.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | which datacenter? |
| 07:15.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, a* datacenter |
| 07:16.04 | freemangordon | 3DS, here in Bulgaria |
| 07:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, any donations welcome |
| 07:16.20 | freemangordon | lemme see if they have webpage |
| 07:16.27 | freemangordon | donations? |
| 07:16.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | provide a server for example |
| 07:17.11 | freemangordon | yeah, but what for? |
| 07:17.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now for installing and running tmo on it |
| 07:17.43 | freemangordon | we lack server to run TMO on? |
| 07:17.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a month for general maemo infra |
| 07:17.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | at the moment we lack any server |
| 07:18.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: but what with those servers Nokia will buy? |
| 07:18.19 | freemangordon | or I am missing something |
| 07:18.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's nonsense |
| 07:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't buy servers |
| 07:18.32 | freemangordon | elaborate please |
| 07:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you rent hosting |
| 07:18.42 | freemangordon | sure you can |
| 07:19.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, and then you have a friggin expensive hardware which you need to service on your own, and pay a fortune for colocation |
| 07:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolute nonsense |
| 07:19.59 | freemangordon | agree, but afaik that's what will happen |
| 07:20.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's like donating a beggar a rolls royce with not even gasoline in the tank, parked in a no-parking zone |
| 07:20.32 | freemangordon | :D |
| 07:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the beggar is a smartass, he will sell that shit as long as it's not towed away |
| 07:21.30 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i understand what you mean, but nevertheless HF will own those servers, so someone should find a way to gain something |
| 07:21.47 | freemangordon | be it money or whatever |
| 07:21.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I still hope HF is rejecting this poisoned offer |
| 07:21.58 | freemangordon | and without infra maemo is doomed |
| 07:22.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the fee for first month of colocation we probably can rent dedicated servers for one year and still have spare money for paying professional admins |
| 07:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm already pondering to sponsor one dedicated server for one year |
| 07:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | so don't tell me we need to accept that schierling cup from Nokia |
| 07:24.50 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I am telling nothing to you ;) |
| 07:25.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | cup of hemlock is the right english term |
| 07:25.28 | freemangordon | I was wondering if I could be of any help with this guy |
| 07:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I told you, any donations of hosting welcome |
| 07:26.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | also professional administration welcome |
| 07:26.17 | kerio | donates a vm on his home server |
| 07:26.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | contact me when you plan to offer the latter |
| 07:26.48 | kerio | it's got *twice* the ram a n900 has! |
| 07:27.18 | freemangordon | well, ok, i'll try to reach him today or tomorrow for some preliminary talking |
| 07:27.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do you think nokia is offering that on purpose? |
| 07:28.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway 2013-01-01 is definitive deadline for tmo, unless we find sponsoring of USD 468 / month, to push this for a month or two |
| 07:29.12 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what are those money for? |
| 07:29.20 | kerio | i say static mirror and new forum |
| 07:29.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | reggie's server hosting |
| 07:29.34 | freemangordon | where is that hosted? |
| 07:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | whois is your friend |
| 07:29.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: come on |
| 07:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if you prefer that answer |
| 07:30.07 | freemangordon | which country? |
| 07:30.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | US? |
| 07:30.15 | kerio | whois doesn't have info about the hosting |
| 07:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: it has, if you know how to establish that |
| 07:30.46 | freemangordon | someone told something about the difference in privacy laws in US and EU |
| 07:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | US privacy is moot |
| 07:32.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: any estimate on storage space/traffic? |
| 07:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | reggie told "tmo is running from my own server (at least the one I've been renting)" |
| 07:32.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3.8G |
| 07:33.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | traffic no clue |
| 07:33.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | you generally don't buy any hosting that has limited traffic |
| 07:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | way too risky |
| 07:33.59 | freemangordon | 4GiB? that's nothing, one can host it on n900 :D |
| 07:34.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 07:34.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if that includes file attachments though |
| 07:34.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither do I know if those are of any significant size for tmo |
| 07:35.51 | freemangordon | I guess 3x72 GB in RAID5, 4/8 GB RAM and 2 or 4 CPUs will do the job easily |
| 07:36.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, technically we can run all maemo infra on a server costing 50EUR/month |
| 07:36.15 | freemangordon | if we talk about hardware, not virtual server |
| 07:36.55 | freemangordon | ok, i'll see what I can do. |
| 07:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | for tmo your specs should suffice for sure |
| 07:37.32 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: in the meantime could you discuss ^^^ with the rest of the council and (maybe) with the board. |
| 07:38.19 | freemangordon | I want to know the "official" position on the matter before going into preliminary negotiations |
| 07:40.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "official" position is: board think council shall announce the facts on ML and TMO, on behalf of reggie, and board is in a pinch and hopes for something magically moving |
| 07:41.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | while reggie is willing to "donate" the database to board/council/whomever |
| 07:42.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and will shut down server on 1-1 unless somebody paying the server hosting fee for January for him |
| 07:43.06 | freemangordon | is that info available in public? |
| 07:43.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for very obscure reasons it's not |
| 07:43.42 | freemangordon | :( |
| 07:44.13 | freemangordon | who is ahead of the council? mentalist? |
| 07:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | it consists of private mail between ivgalvez(?) and reggie, which the former forwarded to council at m.o |
| 07:44.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | council has no head |
| 07:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | mentalist traceur is our chairman, means he's doing the protocols etc |
| 07:45.28 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 07:46.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm designated admin in chief of board's servers to be |
| 07:46.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | FWIW |
| 07:46.41 | freemangordon | well, ok, will try to find the guy ASAP to see if I can be of any help |
| 07:47.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask him if maybe his company wants to donate a server for a year |
| 07:47.15 | freemangordon | ok |
| 07:47.17 | freemangordon | will do |
| 07:47.42 | freemangordon | will we allow ads if needed? |
| 07:47.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're willing to mention the fact, so they can use it in their copmpany image |
| 07:48.00 | freemangordon | at least hosting company logo or something |
| 07:48.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | no ads though |
| 07:48.11 | freemangordon | ^^^ |
| 07:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yea sth like that is for sure feasible |
| 07:48.14 | freemangordon | ok |
| 07:49.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | footer "server hosting courtesy $<ACME-CORP>" |
| 07:50.14 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: any clue how many active users TMO has? an estimate. |
| 07:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | shot into the blue: 30k |
| 07:50.40 | freemangordon | ok |
| 07:51.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | though definition of "active" is a tad difficult |
| 07:51.10 | freemangordon | yeah, got it :) |
| 07:51.42 | freemangordon | who will install OS, DB and do the migration? |
| 07:51.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question |
| 07:52.23 | freemangordon | well, OS should be done locally, thats for sure |
| 07:52.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm still puzzled why Reggie refused |
| 07:53.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | but all in all setting up a vbulletin or phpbb forum on a server shouldn't be that hard |
| 07:53.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | vbulletin lizence costs some 180$ though |
| 07:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | licence* |
| 07:53.58 | freemangordon | sure, but someone have to do it, a real human, it won't happen magically once we have the server |
| 07:54.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | for that we'll find someone |
| 07:54.31 | freemangordon | per year? does the board have any funds right now? |
| 07:54.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's my hopes |
| 07:54.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | no funds |
| 07:54.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | zarro |
| 07:54.49 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 07:54.53 | freemangordon | ok |
| 07:55.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui the licence is infinite |
| 07:55.18 | freemangordon | aah, one time payment. I see |
| 07:55.49 | freemangordon | ok, i have enough info for now |
| 07:56.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end I'd appreciate when one of the current mods of tmo would volunteer for admin |
| 07:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | "owning" that system |
| 07:56.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas chem|st is already quite busy with CSSU |
| 07:57.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh it seems the time requirements that Reggie faces right now are not that much either |
| 07:58.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, all this is stuff that needs further discussions and clarifications, for now we need a server where we can *run* a tmo-successor |
| 07:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | and where the recent tmo db can get transferred to (though merlin1991 is about to get a copy on his server right now) |
| 08:00.29 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 08:00.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if jolla could do some sponsoring |
| 08:01.16 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: frankly, I am not sure jolla is/could be of any goot to maemo. Don't ask me why, just a gut feeling |
| 08:01.29 | freemangordon | *good |
| 08:01.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sponsoring it doesn't really matter |
| 08:02.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as they don't think they got a word in running the whole stuff |
| 08:02.27 | freemangordon | are you sure you want a sposor that might get vanished in 6 months? |
| 08:02.45 | RST38h | Any sponsor can vanish |
| 08:03.09 | freemangordon | RST38h: sure. but for some it is way easier to happen that for the others |
| 08:03.12 | RST38h | Will Jolla be willing to sponsor and use tmo/etc as a platform for their community? |
| 08:03.15 | freemangordon | *than |
| 08:03.29 | freemangordon | I doubt |
| 08:03.36 | RST38h | That would probably be considered as a huge step toward the community |
| 08:04.13 | freemangordon | their target user base is totally different from TMO users AIUI |
| 08:05.03 | freemangordon | they will gain nothing but rants "I want sailfish on my n900, please" |
| 08:05.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://hildonfoundation.org/openletter/ >> Of course, the Foundation is also very concerned with ongoing development within both the Mer and Nemo projects, so facilitating their future is also quite important.<< |
| 08:05.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui jolla heavily depends on nemo / mer, so why shouldn't they sponsor board? |
| 08:06.41 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: imo they already have all of the mer/nemo devs on board, why should they care for HF? |
| 08:07.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | "community" |
| 08:07.07 | freemangordon | meh |
| 08:07.48 | freemangordon | jolla is a corporation fighting to take a piece of the cake |
| 08:08.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I don't care *why* they would donate, as long as they *do* |
| 08:08.40 | freemangordon | until they got it, "community" is their last concern. IMO of course. |
| 08:09.20 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure, but if they were willing to do it, there should be some news on that till now |
| 08:09.42 | freemangordon | *should have been |
| 08:09.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | they'll need own infra in the long run anyway, so why wouldn't they maybe share it with maemo |
| 08:10.05 | freemangordon | because they gain nothing |
| 08:10.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll ask anyway |
| 08:10.31 | freemangordon | sure, costs no money :D |
| 08:12.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | first desaster to stop anyway is Nokia donating that rolls royce to board, thus eating up about 10 times the amount of what board can possibly ever rise on funds, just for useless silly colocation |
| 08:14.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | currently the mood in board seems to me like accepting whatever offer to get a server for a month for free, no matter if it can get paid in february |
| 08:15.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's what that Nokia offer basically is: January for free, starting from Feb/Mar it will cost 77 fortunes just for running the infra |
| 08:17.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if board could sell those server hw Nokia is buying for them right now |
| 08:18.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably not that easy when it's located in a aircon server room $somewhere |
| 08:19.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also wonder who's going to swap a HDD if ever needed, on those servers owned by board and unclear where they are actually located |
| 08:23.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: if Nokia is buying new servers, aren't those supposed to be boxed? |
| 08:23.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | unclear |
| 08:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems they again ordered nemein to do that for them |
| 08:24.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I really start to get curious who's that nemein |
| 08:24.21 | freemangordon | i see |
| 08:25.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://nemein.com/fi/ :-S |
| 08:26.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah a tad better: http://nemein.com/en/ |
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| 08:29.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, basically nemein is a service provider, here specifically administration service |
| 08:30.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | we (community) can't afford such service, unless they use another tarriff than they did for Nokia |
| 08:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I'm not all that happy with the quality of their admin service lately - see wiki which is dead since over a month |
| 08:31.25 | RST38h | Well, if I understand it correctly, for Jolla it would be a really good chance to spread the word and earn somepositive marketing power |
| 08:31.30 | RST38h | while not spending too much |
| 08:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: that's what I thought as well |
| 08:45.19 | tadzik | hmm, the cssu-devel tklock was showing some random black squares on screen at first, then after a few lock-unlock cycles it look okay |
| 08:45.21 | tadzik | freemangordon: ^ |
| 08:46.52 | freemangordon | tadzik: forced rotation enabled? |
| 08:48.15 | tadzik | freemangordon: no |
| 08:50.17 | tadzik | and -alarm and -powerkeymenu look exactly like before, I don't see anything different so far :) |
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| 09:40.36 | chem|st | freemangordon: I push an update with libcurl next week, but I need to be able to build modest myself... |
| 09:42.43 | chem|st | merlin1991: how about that idea to have it all run on a server? testing build and stable? that way you build packages and I update git and mp- when need be... |
| 09:43.02 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: running more than two servers is overestimated |
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| 10:00.11 | freemangordon | chem|st: good. however i just reminded about libcurl3 |
| 10:01.19 | freemangordon | chem|st: if you wish i can give you PR1.3 SDK vmware image tar.gz, i have it backed up |
| 10:01.38 | freemangordon | so you will be able to start from scratch |
| 10:06.47 | chem|st | freemangordon: does not change the problem that I have |
| 10:07.39 | chem|st | I had two steps in scratchbox after a working build... download dev packages for some python crap and built it... then modest was borked |
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| 10:08.59 | chem|st | I did not logout or something... just those two tasks were done apt-get and building a package after modest |
| 10:10.42 | chem|st | going frenzie next time! |
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| 11:23.34 | tadzik | freemangordon: ok, I've got a bug in tklock. Run anything in portrait mode, lock screen, bring up tklock. It blinks for a second, tries to fit in portrait, then vanishes ans a black screen remains |
| 11:24.46 | tadzik | It actually works then, when I swipe the finger in the middle of the screen, then the slider bar is drawn and after sliding the screen unlocks |
| 11:25.04 | tadzik | only the slider is drawn tho, no clock or anything |
| 11:25.30 | freemangordon | tadzik: confirmed, will check |
| 11:25.32 | freemangordon | thanks |
| 11:25.43 | tadzik | thanks as well |
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| 16:44.51 | merlin1991 | chem|st: do I understand correctly, that the idea is we build the packages once, I park them somewhere and you just beuild the new mp using the files I generated? |
| 16:47.04 | freemangordon | merlin1991: sounds like a good idea to me |
| 16:48.48 | merlin1991 | hm I'll check if I still have the files |
| 16:48.56 | merlin1991 | but I fear they're gone by now |
| 16:49.37 | freemangordon | merlin1991: they are in the repo, at least modest, tinymail and libcurl |
| 16:49.51 | freemangordon | I don;t think anything has changed |
| 16:49.53 | merlin1991 | yeah we'll just have to handcraft .changes files |
| 16:49.58 | freemangordon | why? |
| 16:50.08 | merlin1991 | because those don't stay in the repo |
| 16:50.19 | freemangordon | aah, yeah :D |
| 16:50.28 | merlin1991 | repo import looks at changes file, imports everything referenced and discards the .changes file |
| 16:50.37 | freemangordon | ok, ok |
| 16:50.41 | freemangordon | got it :P |
| 16:56.16 | kerio | is there a way to lock everything except a certain list of applications in landscape mode? |
| 16:56.52 | freemangordon | kerio: whitelist? |
| 16:57.01 | kerio | freemangordon: that doesn't lock in landscape afaik |
| 16:57.02 | kerio | does it? |
| 16:57.30 | freemangordon | it enables force rotation on some of the applications |
| 16:57.48 | kerio | i want to forcibly disable the rotation on every application except some |
| 16:57.51 | freemangordon | if an application supports portrait, you can;t lock it to lanscape |
| 16:57.57 | kerio | i see :( |
| 16:58.04 | kerio | except with the applet |
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| 18:00.08 | kerio | merlin1991: i still haven't downloaded a pdiff :( |
| 18:00.37 | merlin1991 | kerio: tonights update failed |
| 18:00.41 | kerio | wat |
| 18:00.44 | merlin1991 | Character 0x44 not allowed in package name: 'Defense_Gear'! |
| 18:00.46 | kerio | oh, autobuilder? |
| 18:00.49 | kerio | FUCKING AUTOBUILDER |
| 18:01.12 | merlin1991 | I didn't have the time yet to see how I can work around that |
| 18:02.12 | kerio | delete everything |
| 18:02.18 | merlin1991 | :D |
| 18:02.26 | kerio | and tell the fucker who uploaded it to learn how to properly make a package |
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| 18:09.33 | luf | merlin1991: I forget I'll be available tomorrow at till 20:00 and than after 20:30 CET |
| 18:09.58 | luf | I can't be online from 20:00 to 20:30 :( |
| 18:10.23 | merlin1991 | damn |
| 18:10.39 | merlin1991 | we'll shift topics around then |
| 18:10.55 | luf | Ok. |
| 18:11.19 | freemangordon | merlin1991: we have plenty of things to do enyway |
| 18:11.22 | freemangordon | *anyway |
| 18:11.28 | merlin1991 | my thoughts :) |
| 18:11.36 | merlin1991 | but the more opinions, the better |
| 18:11.41 | freemangordon | sure |
| 18:11.56 | luf | I have to stay at work till 20:00 :( |
| 18:12.30 | freemangordon | merlin1991: 20:00 CET is 22:00 EEWT? |
| 18:12.45 | merlin1991 | it's 19 utc |
| 18:12.53 | luf | 20 CET is 21 Bulgarian time ;) |
| 18:13.02 | freemangordon | luf: yeah, thanks :D |
| 18:13.57 | freemangordon | perfect |
| 18:14.18 | luf | Oh it's true in summer. I think it's also true in winter (but I'm not sure about daylight saving in bulgaria TZ) |
| 18:15.31 | freemangordon | the fuck?!? acording to wikipedia Bulgaria is using EET in winter only since 1894! |
| 18:16.04 | freemangordon | luf: your math is ok, EET is UTC+2 |
| 18:16.19 | freemangordon | during the winter and UTC+3 in summer |
| 18:17.34 | kerio | luf: just... irc at work? |
| 18:17.57 | luf | kerio: the same like at uni ;) |
| 18:18.14 | kerio | oh, you actually like your job? neat |
| 18:19.05 | luf | kerio: yes. I like it so much that I'm going to change the company ;) |
| 18:19.27 | kerio | i'm not sure if you're sarcastic or not... |
| 18:20.03 | merlin1991 | hands kerio a sarcasm detector |
| 18:20.55 | freemangordon | hands him another one, to check the results from merlin1991's one |
| 18:21.14 | merlin1991 | what, you don't trust my hw? |
| 18:21.43 | freemangordon | I trust it, but trust mine more :P |
| 18:21.52 | merlin1991 | bah |
| 18:22.46 | luf | kerio: I'm sarcastic in first part and serious in the second part |
| 18:24.07 | freemangordon | luf: so you like your job but not your company? |
| 18:24.55 | luf | freemangordon: exactly. I like to be sys admin but I don't like the style of work in the company I work now. |
| 18:26.04 | freemangordon | luf: what's wrong with you? you like to be a sysadmin while having knowledge in C/++ and development in general? |
| 18:26.14 | freemangordon | I don;t believe it :P |
| 18:26.40 | luf | Because I hate to be developer in my job ;) |
| 18:27.08 | freemangordon | luf: don't tell me sysadmins are better paid than developers in your country |
| 18:27.17 | luf | Everything has to be done right now without any concept. That I hate in my job. |
| 18:27.31 | freemangordon | what has "liking" to do with the money? |
| 18:27.48 | merlin1991 | :D |
| 18:27.53 | luf | I have enough money for my life so I don't care. As you know I'm very good sys admin ;) |
| 18:28.54 | luf | And to be honest a lot of developers has lower salary ;) (and a lot of sys admins too) |
| 18:29.10 | merlin1991 | ie me :D |
| 18:29.39 | merlin1991 | then on the other hand, I am *young* |
| 18:29.42 | freemangordon | luf: trust me, this is the best possible approach. Once a "corporate" style kicks in (read project plans and shit like that), you may start seeing the particular company as going down the drain |
| 18:30.41 | freemangordon | merlin1991: yeah |
| 18:31.31 | freemangordon | luf: strange, here an ordinary developer usually takes twice as much as an ordinary admin |
| 18:34.26 | luf | freemangordon: I'm not ordinary ;) And here it's same in start position. I trust that top architect or top devel can earn more than top admin. But as I said I earn enough for my life. I don't need more and admin position is usually a little bit quiet not under so high stress (more conceptual). |
| 18:35.02 | luf | *bit more quiet and |
| 18:35.06 | freemangordon | though, the answer from such an admin to my request "dammit, tell stupid XP to NAT from external to internal network" was "noo, XP cannot do that" ;) |
| 18:35.17 | freemangordon | luf: yeah, makes sense |
| 18:35.40 | luf | I'm not win admin I'm sys admin :D |
| 18:35.48 | freemangordon | :D |
| 18:36.17 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: xp can't do that :D |
| 18:36.28 | luf | But I have to know win too ... |
| 18:36.38 | freemangordon | merlin1991: thats why your sallary is low :P |
| 18:36.48 | merlin1991 | the functionality exists in vista upwards afaik |
| 18:36.53 | freemangordon | netsh ip ... |
| 18:36.59 | freemangordon | merlin1991: try again |
| 18:37.11 | merlin1991 | well I'm not a win developer |
| 18:37.14 | merlin1991 | oh wait I am |
| 18:37.15 | merlin1991 | damn |
| 18:37.26 | luf | What masochist can use win machine for such thing? |
| 18:38.31 | freemangordon | merlin1991: netsh has nothing to do with development, it is built-in command (well, not in shell, but still) |
| 18:38.34 | luf | freemangordon: BTW as you can read N900 can send file via BT using OPP profile ... |
| 18:38.58 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: it was a joke about knowing ones target platform |
| 18:39.21 | freemangordon | aah, ok |
| 18:39.26 | freemangordon | luf: how? |
| 18:39.31 | luf | But It's a little bit chaotic to use different BT features in N900. |
| 18:39.42 | freemangordon | I mean, using dbus? |
| 18:39.50 | freemangordon | (dbus-launch) |
| 18:39.59 | luf | FileBox (or how it's called in english), menu Sharing vi BT ;) |
| 18:40.51 | freemangordon | luf: hmm, I don;t have FileBox(or how it's called) and can send files via BT for the last 2 years or something |
| 18:41.01 | freemangordon | using OPP afaik |
| 18:41.19 | luf | Ok, you're not ordinary user ;) |
| 18:41.19 | freemangordon | stock file manager supports that since PR1.1 iirc |
| 18:41.31 | luf | Yes FileBox is the stock file manager. |
| 18:41.35 | freemangordon | aah |
| 18:41.45 | freemangordon | but, but... thats not new |
| 18:42.12 | luf | It's new for me. I never tried sharing for sending files :D |
| 18:42.23 | freemangordon | click-n-hold, share |
| 18:43.17 | luf | share is passive action in my mind ... I never searched there. |
| 18:44.33 | freemangordon | luf: you can even do multi-select if you choose "share" from the menu |
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| 20:52.20 | _ade_ | merlin1991: thanks and also sorry |
| 20:53.05 | merlin1991 | where, when, what did I do? |
| 20:53.10 | merlin1991 | _ade_: ^ |
| 20:53.46 | _ade_ | thanks for pointing out the issue for uploading Defense Gear, and sorry for the failed attempts |
| 20:53.55 | merlin1991 | ah :D |
| 20:54.22 | _ade_ | I was not aware of naming conventions like no upppercase and underscores |
| 20:54.40 | _ade_ | and I just did not get any proper error message |
| 21:00.37 | merlin1991 | kerio: I fixed the light-extras-devel import, you should have a pdiff now : |
| 21:00.39 | merlin1991 | +) |
| 21:01.19 | kerio | merlin1991: i love you <3 |
| 21:01.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: extras-devel update used 11kB :D |
| 21:01.33 | merlin1991 | btw _ade_ why did you upload to non-free? |
| 21:02.05 | _ade_ | merlin1991: as I don't have the source itself |
| 21:02.47 | _ade_ | merlin1991: where did you find the error message? |
| 21:03.23 | merlin1991 | I'm running a "light" mirror of extras-devel |
| 21:03.42 | merlin1991 | and the daily cron job importing from maemo.org threw the error |
| 21:03.58 | _ade_ | merlin1991: okay, that means you see that on the "server" side? |
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| 21:05.06 | merlin1991 | well depends on what you define by server side, if maemo.org is server side then my server is client side |
| 21:06.34 | _ade_ | merlin1991: I mean you cannot see in in some public web log? |
| 21:07.18 | merlin1991 | nope |
| 21:07.49 | merlin1991 | btw your package is actually up there: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/D/Defense_Gear/ |
| 21:08.10 | merlin1991 | the sw running the maemo repos is kinda not following standards |
| 21:09.25 | _ade_ | merlin1991: I now uploaded it to free, as it gives me response for sure. And the weird thing I now also see the first failed versions appear |
| 21:10.49 | _ade_ | merlin1991: anyway, thanks for pointing out the problem ;) |
| 21:12.07 | merlin1991 | np :) |
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| 21:30.05 | _ade_ | merlin1991: any idea how to remove the version from the non-free repo? I now have two version, as I thought the non-free upload ever arrived :( |
| 21:31.55 | _ade_ | merlin1991: or making the versions equal would make them appear just once in the application manager? |
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| 21:36.01 | _ade_ | merlin1991: no, forget about the last idea, it would not work, as that package name has the forbidden uppercases and underscore |
| 21:38.12 | merlin1991 | you can try to get a hold of x-fade |
| 21:38.32 | merlin1991 | other than that, it's there untill we have anyone with admin powers |
| 21:40.30 | _ade_ | merlin1991: too bad :( Afaik x-fade is hard to contact |
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| 22:32.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | how I hate sleeping |
| 22:32.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | morning |
| 22:34.06 | merlin1991 | dafuq? |
| 22:34.08 | merlin1991 | morning |
| 22:34.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | to be politically correct I could wait another 25 min for saying "morning" |
| 22:35.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn |
| 22:35.30 | infobot | xyawn is, like, big coffee |
| 22:36.47 | merlin1991 | morning when hwere? |
| 22:37.00 | merlin1991 | afaik you still live in cet :D |
| 22:37.08 | merlin1991 | ah yeah 0:00 |
| 22:37.11 | merlin1991 | now I get it xD |
| 22:42.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | the police' "guten Morgen!" |
| 22:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | when they stop your car at 00:15 |
| 22:43.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | they instantly earn all my sympathy doing that, each time ;-P |
| 22:49.53 | merlin1991 | hm so far only been stopped by police 4 times |
| 22:52.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | their policy regarding me changed with their files about me, I guess. When they thought I'm a RAF terrorist they *never* even showed up in uniform in my vicinity |
| 22:53.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | when they thought I'm cheating the Sozialamt, they stopped me in the morning when fetching my pretzels and in the noon when sending a letter and in the evening when taking a bike-ride to next pub |
| 22:54.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | they actually managed to stop me 4 times one single day |
| 22:56.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | the fourth time was no more fun, I just drove my car around next corner, coming from last check and not even gaining full speed yet, and the next police stopped me |
| 22:57.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I asked them how poor their coordination actually is, and if they don't notice what their colleagues are dooing, 200m away and 2 min back |
| 22:58.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that stop been a tad shorter than the one before |
| 22:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | the last 3 or 4 years I haven't had any such unpleasant encounters |
| 22:59.18 | merlin1991 | how did you earn a reputation as raf terroris o_O |
| 23:11.44 | Pali | Hi, now going to build u-boot in scratchbox and then push it into extras-devel |
| 23:12.15 | Pali | now when autobuilder working again, new u-boot can be in extras-devel :-) |
| 23:14.19 | merlin1991 | autobuilder works |
| 23:14.27 | merlin1991 | just not the web interface thingy |
| 23:17.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | (reputation) well, in the 80s it wasn't that difficult |
| 23:34.20 | Pali | u-boot was uploaded to autobuilder |
| 23:34.24 | Pali | ... now waiting... |
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