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| 07:07.08 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: yes. Intel's powertop doesn't help much on ARM, at least that was the case the last time I've checked it |
| 07:09.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, since ARM is not an intel product, that's not really surprising |
| 07:09.44 | freemangordon | sure |
| 07:20.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also start frowning when I hear "Lennart's PA is better than Nokia's PA" |
| 07:20.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia for sure didn't patch PA for NIH reasons |
| 07:21.35 | freemangordon | afaik nokia's patches were meant to be upstreamed |
| 07:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | there been quite a number of problems with PA (no surprise after all, eh?) and Nokia applied patches to fix those issues |
| 07:23.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | At OM we discarded PA all together since it didn't work at all |
| 07:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia been already more brainwashed by the Lennart&RH propaganda and obviously thought PA is a mandatory component to provide functions that allegedly were not available in ALSA |
| 07:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wish they were more brave and had refused to include PA at all |
| 07:26.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | if they had invested same amount of bugfixing and coding extensions to ALSA that they did to PA, they had ended with a better audio system |
| 07:31.16 | sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: DocScrutinizer05: Yes, but there are armel builds in the link from debian and the full source. |
| 07:35.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? the design still is for intel processor |
| 07:37.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, compare powertop output/interface of your PC's (intel) powertop with that of N900 |
| 07:37.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you won't find much they have in common |
| 07:39.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, ok, a cerain similarity is there, but still the ARM CPU/SoC is pretty different to a PC ISA architecture |
| 07:40.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc FatPhil said he's about to rewrite a ARM powertop in a scripting language, like perl or whatever |
| 07:41.41 | jonwil | Would using ALSA have allowed Nokia to use all their proprietary audio algorithms and still have been able to keep them closed source? |
| 07:43.13 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: BTW, the problem we have with powertop and KP seems to be because a bug in powertop - it tries to map CPU c-states to frequencies, which is plain wrong IMO |
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| 07:44.10 | sixwheeledbeast | they have a build for most architectures which seems stupid if they don't work. |
| 07:44.53 | jonwil | you have to remember that a lot of what Nokia did in the audio system for Fremantle was connected to the need to use these algorithms and the desire to keep things closed |
| 07:46.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I don;t see how's c-state could be related to cpu freq |
| 07:46.16 | freemangordon | *hore |
| 07:46.19 | freemangordon | *how |
| 07:46.22 | freemangordon | :( |
| 07:50.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: same as with PA |
| 07:51.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: what makes you think it maps freq to C state? |
| 07:53.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | the fact that Cstate table and fre-table share same rows n printout doesn't mean they are related or linked in any direct way |
| 07:53.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: exactly |
| 07:54.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 07:54.32 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i am looking at what powertop does |
| 07:54.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | powertop doesn't try to map anytjhing there - you do |
| 07:54.58 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: run powertop and see the columns in the first table it prints |
| 07:55.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | guess what I did 3 min ago |
| 07:55.19 | freemangordon | see http://pastebin.com/5Zwj4Naw |
| 07:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | the fact that Cstate table and fre-table share same rows n printout doesn't mean they are related or linked in any direct way |
| 07:55.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure, that is what I am sayng |
| 07:56.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's exactly what you're denying |
| 07:56.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're assuming the opposite |
| 07:56.47 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: could be my english, but that is what I tried to say :) |
| 07:56.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're implying that powertop somehow maps them internally, since it displays them in same section of prntout |
| 07:57.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's no bug in powertop, that's at best a cosmetic flaw |
| 07:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | in printout formatting |
| 07:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, have to pause - vision impairing issue |
| 07:57.53 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it uses the same for() loop variable to print c-states and frequensies |
| 07:57.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't read anymore |
| 07:58.25 | freemangordon | is out too |
| 08:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? for (n=1; n<10; n++) printf("linenumber %d | cstate %d | freq %d", n, cs[n], f[n]); nothing wrong with that |
| 08:02.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't mean cn[] and f[] are linked/entangled in any way |
| 08:12.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I dont see any other obvious and straight way to implement this |
| 08:13.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the running var is "linenumber" and not anything relevant for the properties of Cstate or CPUfreq |
| 08:14.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | the only "bug" I can see is: make 3rd "|" a "|||" |
| 08:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and probably the true "bug" in powertop with KP is that powertop isn't prepared to have an array with >4 items for CPU-freq[], ot maybe the parser for sysfs node content is not prepared to parse the output provided by KP |
| 08:20.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is however *completely* unrelated to C-states I'd think |
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| 08:21.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | C-states are not related to CPUfreq, neither in real life nor in powertop, they just happen to get printed in neighbourhood of the CPU-freq table |
| 08:24.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and tbh I'm not all sure it's any bug in powertop (iirc powertop actually prints all the available freq but their value is "NAN" for the 'new' ones), it might as well be a bug in sysnode format of powerkernel which maybe prints the new freq not in a way that they are supposed to and expected by powertop |
| 08:30.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | arbitrary made-up(!) example: when sysnode now has content like " freq:2:500:600 values:2:20:80" and powertop changes that to " freq:3:500:600:800 values:2:20:70:10" then it would clearly be KP to blame since the second format is incorrect, it doesn't set correct number of fields for "values" (2 instead of a correct 3) |
| 08:30.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/powertop/KP/ |
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| 08:53.07 | FatPhil | Open source powertop replacement: http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop |
| 08:53.33 | FatPhil | Reverse engineered from scratch using "strace" and nothing else. |
| 08:54.15 | FatPhil | Doesn't do everything the nokia one does, but it should be easy to extend |
| 08:56.30 | FatPhil | I split the C-states and frequency tables, there was no need to combine them into one tale. |
| 08:56.55 | FatPhil | Also more friendly for the output on 8-core systems |
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| 09:29.19 | Pali | freemangordon: kcssu wiki page updated |
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| 10:26.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: are there tabs in http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt ? formating/indenting looks odd at least in my browser |
| 10:28.31 | Sicelo | looks good in IE :p |
| 10:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | look at |
| 10:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:29.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | open(S, "</proc/stat"); |
| 10:30.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | negative indentation |
| 10:30.27 | Sicelo | also looks fine |
| 10:31.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, in FF it looks fine, in konqueror not - I assume that's due to my different tab width |
| 10:31.33 | Sicelo | and, btw, just a work computer. i run linux on my personal one ;) |
| 10:31.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I asked if there are tabs in there |
| 10:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I strongly suggest to not use tabs at all in sourcecode |
| 10:37.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/f3559dd1ea |
| 10:41.07 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: why not use tabs? |
| 10:41.11 | Pali | I suggest to use tabs |
| 10:41.54 | Pali | because your editor and you can see TABS (which are use for indentation) and LOT OF SPACES (used where are spaces really needed) |
| 10:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | because tabs are not defined |
| 10:42.33 | Pali | defined? |
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| 10:42.39 | Pali | they are in ASCII table |
| 10:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually tabstops are not defined globally |
| 10:42.44 | Pali | they are difined |
| 10:43.15 | Pali | what is tabstops? |
| 10:43.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, see? |
| 10:43.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | what is tab? |
| 10:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell me what tab does |
| 10:43.40 | kerio | '\t', duh |
| 10:44.15 | Pali | tab is 9th char in ascii table |
| 10:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | every smart editor can user a 3 or 4 or 6 or 8 spaces as representation of a tab in text |
| 10:45.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: I didn't ask which cahr in ascii table is called "tab", I asked what you think it DOES |
| 10:45.47 | Pali | but this representation is not bijektion |
| 10:45.55 | jon_y | I think there is also vertical tab |
| 10:45.55 | kerio | i think his idea is to use tab to indent and then space to align |
| 10:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? |
| 10:46.06 | kerio | but that never works in practice, really |
| 10:46.20 | jon_y | ewww, mixed |
| 10:46.32 | jon_y | I just use space, everywhere all the time :) |
| 10:46.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 10:46.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | only sane way |
| 10:46.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually your editor does that for you |
| 10:47.10 | jon_y | I mean, you can't escape using spaces |
| 10:47.14 | jon_y | so don't use tabs |
| 10:47.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | by inserting 4 or 8 spaces for each time you press tab key |
| 10:47.20 | jon_y | unless you are in python |
| 10:47.41 | jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: assuming your editor isn't retarded :) |
| 10:47.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | why would I use a retarded editor? |
| 10:48.03 | Pali | if you get some file (source code) you do not know 1) how many spaces are used for one indentation and also 2) you do not know if this N spaces are indentation or not |
| 10:48.11 | jon_y | more like vi settings that need to be fixed |
| 10:48.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: sorry? |
| 10:48.54 | kerio | jon_y: no, you *always* use spaces in python |
| 10:49.04 | kerio | or guido will haunt you at night |
| 10:49.10 | jon_y | I thought python uses tabs? |
| 10:49.14 | kerio | ewww |
| 10:49.21 | kerio | that would be horrible |
| 10:49.22 | Pali | that mapping is some kind of homomorphism |
| 10:49.24 | jon_y | I don't normally do python though |
| 10:49.33 | kerio | it supports them for backwards compatibility |
| 10:49.39 | jon_y | yes, tab is syntax in python |
| 10:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: seems you are describing exactly what I'm facing with that zzztop source, where the tab stop definition (number of spaces equaling one tab) is not in line with what I use locally |
| 10:49.45 | kerio | and it parses them *always* as 8 spaces |
| 10:49.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: that's why you shouldn't use tabs ever |
| 10:50.02 | kerio | tab is not syntax in python |
| 10:50.06 | kerio | indentation is syntax |
| 10:50.22 | kerio | and it's preferrable to indent with 4 spaces |
| 10:50.23 | kerio | following PEP8 |
| 10:50.24 | jon_y | ok, so you are screwed if your editor fixes it to 4 spaces? |
| 10:50.38 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: if you always use TABS you can configure editor to show TABs to number of spaces you want |
| 10:50.38 | jon_y | or even 2 spaces |
| 10:50.40 | kerio | if you only use tabs to indent, no |
| 10:50.49 | kerio | but **use spaces** |
| 10:50.55 | Pali | and if TABs are used only for indentation, it does not matter to number of spaces |
| 10:51.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: see zzztop |
| 10:51.08 | Pali | and TABs are used only for indenatation... |
| 10:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | it using 4 spaces, one tab, one tab + 4 spaces, 2 tabs |
| 10:51.49 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: in zzztop is another problem: mixing TABS and SPACES |
| 10:52.25 | Pali | and you cannot mix it, becuase it really cause problems... |
| 10:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | my tab is set to 3 chars tabstop |
| 10:52.57 | Pali | but if you always use *only* TABS for indentation, it does not matter how many chars have tabstop |
| 10:53.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | since with the usual 8, most sources fall off right side of my screen |
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| 10:53.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: yes, that's correct |
| 10:53.43 | Pali | :-) |
| 10:54.34 | Pali | problem with spaces is that 1) somebody want to use other chars for tabstop and 2) you do not know if N spaces is indention or something other (where N spaces are really needed and it is not indentation) |
| 10:55.02 | Pali | when using TABs you can set chars for tabstop as you want and nothing will break |
| 10:55.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, citation needed. Couldn't think of such case |
| 10:55.31 | Pali | of what? |
| 10:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | spaces really needed |
| 10:56.40 | Pali | aesthetic comments (4TABS for indentation + 5 spaces) |
| 10:56.56 | Pali | or using HERE DOCUMENT in bash |
| 10:57.04 | Pali | (also in perl __DATA__ section) |
| 10:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | but basicaly we agree, FatPhil should set his tabstop/tabwidth to 4 and use only tabs instead of a mixed scheme that indents by 4 using spaces and 8-tab mixed |
| 10:57.48 | Pali | or multiline string definitions in more programming languages where in string are lot of spaces |
| 10:57.56 | Pali | and specially at begining of line |
| 10:58.54 | Pali | in all these cases editor *must* fully know formal language grammer to know that 8 spaces of begining of line are really spaces (because this is multiline string) and not indentaion |
| 10:59.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, with const definitions of strings or whatever, you might run into trouble when your editor treats 4 spaces as if it were one tab |
| 10:59.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | in very rare cases |
| 10:59.43 | Pali | __DATA__ in perl is not rare |
| 10:59.48 | Pali | and here document in bash too! |
| 11:00.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, but editor messing with those in a way you don't like is highly unlikely |
| 11:00.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you need a real TAB there and your editor converts it into spaces |
| 11:01.02 | Pali | every editor which converting tabs and spaces *always* messed all perl or bash code which I edited |
| 11:01.17 | Pali | (code with here document) |
| 11:02.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, when you're editing a source done by another editor and you tell your editor to *convert* it to a tab-only or space-only format, then sure you always run into trouble |
| 11:03.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but when I write a here-document and I use 8 space at start of line, then how's the editor going to interfere with that? |
| 11:03.38 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: look at here document bash syntax or perl __data__ section |
| 11:03.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 11:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know what's a here-document |
| 11:04.02 | Pali | ok |
| 11:04.25 | Pali | so problem is that editor internally think that 8 spaces are indentation |
| 11:04.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | the editor doesn't think anything |
| 11:04.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | the editor inserts 8 spaces when you hit tab key |
| 11:04.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's it |
| 11:05.11 | Pali | some even more evil editors doing that it convert TABs to 8 spaces when editing that part |
| 11:05.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when you hit backspace on end of a sequence of 8 spaces, then it deletes 8 instead of 1 space |
| 11:05.49 | Pali | so if you have code with here document where is TAB and you will start editing that line, some editors automatically convert all TABs on that line to spaces |
| 11:06.08 | Pali | [12:05:42] <DocScrutinizer05> and when you hit backspace on end of a sequence of 8 spaces, then it deletes 8 instead of 1 space >>> this is another problem |
| 11:06.19 | Pali | I want to remove only one space... |
| 11:06.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that is what I said above, when you're telling your editor to *convert* then yes, you will possibly run into trouble |
| 11:06.51 | Pali | I saw more editors which have this default behaviour |
| 11:07.19 | Pali | and I'm fed up that this is default on more systems editor (e.g. kde kate) |
| 11:07.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: depending on your editor you then either use a special key macro to delete only one space instead of 8, or you delete 8 char pseudo-tab, then insert 7 space instead |
| 11:08.00 | Pali | and kde kate has other stupid default behavious: when you press TAB it insert 4 spaces. But when there are 8 spaces it replace it by \t char |
| 11:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | now THAT is buggy |
| 11:08.41 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: right, but I do not want to start configuring new editor (on not my machine) if I need to edit some code... |
| 11:08.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | that is terribly buggy |
| 11:08.51 | Pali | and learning for that sepcial key macro... |
| 11:09.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 11:09.03 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: yes, all this is buggy.... |
| 11:09.22 | Pali | so this is reason why I want working TAB and not some buggy editor... |
| 11:09.45 | Pali | which doing some autoconversion, but do not understand full BASH formal grammer... |
| 11:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, you convinced me best is to use \t *only*, for indentation. Second best is to use spaces *only* |
| 11:10.32 | Pali | yes |
| 11:10.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | using space and \t mixed is prone to mess up |
| 11:11.22 | Pali | yes big mess and thanks to more editors it is default options.... |
| 11:11.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 11:12.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | use edlin! |
| 11:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 11:12.23 | Pali | I'm using vim :-) and here I can configure what I want |
| 11:12.54 | Pali | and I belive that configuration for TABs in vim will not be moved to another name (or config dialog :-) where to configure it |
| 11:13.18 | Pali | funny editors which changing design every version changing also all config options in config dialog |
| 11:13.29 | Pali | and always it is hard to find where is TAB configuration... |
| 11:13.43 | Pali | vim should not change this config :P |
| 11:17.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, if vim had a less steep learning curve, it would be a really great editor |
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| 11:30.24 | FatPhil | DocScrutinizer05: there are tabs. I use emacs, TAB indents the line to style (default perl style) using a mixture of tabs and spaces. I never manually do any indentation. |
| 11:33.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, however it's quite probelmatic for any other editor or viewer |
| 11:36.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd suggest sed 's/\t/ /g;s/ /\t/g' zzztop.pl.txt |
| 11:36.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | err |
| 11:38.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd suggest sed 's/^([[:space:]]*)\t/\1 /g;s/^([[:space:]]*) /\1\t/g' zzztop.pl.txt |
| 11:40.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | actualy I think you need to split that into two sed runs, since sed doesn't work on own result buffer afaik |
| 11:42.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm quite stunned that emacs is shipping with such broken macros |
| 11:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: on another related topic, prolly more serious: http://privatepaste.com/f3559dd1ea |
| 11:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: I downloaded the file with wget |
| 11:46.10 | FatPhil | shit |
| 11:46.35 | FatPhil | THat file I grabbed from my old laptop before leaving. |
| 11:47.12 | FatPhil | I did leave in a bit of a rush, but I don't remember any changes since the stable version I was testing everywhere. |
| 11:47.57 | FatPhil | runs fine on my desktop |
| 11:49.01 | FatPhil | and my server |
| 11:50.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, in line 483 there's actually a " // ", and in line 506 there's a "/" |
| 11:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever that means |
| 11:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc abour perl here |
| 11:50.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | about* |
| 11:51.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | perl version? |
| 11:51.55 | FatPhil | I'm 5.10, // is a bit like || |
| 11:52.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems my perl thinks it's a "multi-line // string" |
| 11:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea what perl version takes effect on N900, I just noticed some perl5.8.3 |
| 11:54.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ll `which perl5.8.3 ` |
| 11:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 10708 2010-09-01 15:08 /usr/bin/perl5.8.3 |
| 11:55.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ll `which perl` |
| 11:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 10708 2010-09-01 15:08 /usr/bin/perl |
| 11:56.47 | FatPhil | Just tweaked it to use || instead, thanks for but report, portability is my goal |
| 11:56.57 | FatPhil | s/but/bug/ |
| 11:57.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the life of mine I can't figure what "" my $prevals = $pre->{$p} // [0,0]; "" means |
| 11:58.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
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| 11:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just know I'd like to own all the $$$ in all those perl sources ;-) |
| 12:00.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: so you suggest to s@//@||@ ? |
| 12:01.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, seems to work \o/ |
| 12:03.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, that's mad useful! |
| 12:03.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | kudos FatPhil |
| 12:04.02 | FatPhil | yup, that's the only change I made |
| 12:04.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | great stuff |
| 12:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 12:05.27 | FatPhil | I realise now, I probably only ever tested it on n950 and a galaxy. |
| 12:05.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd probably list all alternative values, even when 0 |
| 12:06.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems I've seen a var (const?) regarding that? |
| 12:06.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | -a ? |
| 12:07.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | hihihihi |
| 12:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ./powertop.pl -a -s=0 -t= 5 WARNING: Only low accuracy timing available .Detected 1 cpu sDetected 4 cpuidle states (3 )Sleeping for 0 seconds before collecting data for 5 second s Illegal division by zero at ./powertop.pl line 506. |
| 12:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 12:08.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I like the -a parameter |
| 12:11.46 | FatPhil | Aha - I never expected -s=0, as you always want the system to quiesce |
| 12:12.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tried to figure how to make $calibrate=0; when $sleep==0; but I give up on perl syntax |
| 12:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | (line 504) |
| 12:13.38 | FatPhil | Seems like we can just ignore calibration when -s=0. fixed, just grab again. |
| 12:14.19 | FatPhil | perl's pretty cranky. I've been using it nearly 20 years, and I forget how alien is sometimes is |
| 12:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, scary stuff |
| 12:17.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 12:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O powertop.pl |
| 12:17.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | frowns at .pl suffix |
| 12:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | suggests officially calling it fpowertop |
| 12:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | to distinguish from powertop |
| 12:19.02 | FatPhil | well, zzztop distinguishes it even more! |
| 12:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that's what you want it to get called |
| 12:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's not in line with your "howto2 though |
| 12:20.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | any mental hint on why it's called zzztop? |
| 12:20.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | zzz like zzZZzz ? |
| 12:21.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought fp was a nice initials of fpowertop |
| 12:21.55 | FatPhil | Zzz.. = sleeping |
| 12:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | where fp could mean FatPhil, but f could also mean "fixed" |
| 12:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm fine with sleeping Zzz |
| 12:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 12:23.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | so, for the sake of our "first level helpdesk hell" over at #maemo, could you fix the minit-howto, so users will have a binary zzztop on their devices? |
| 12:24.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop |
| 12:24.25 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 12:25.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Just save the source as powertop.pl --> Just save the source as zzztop |
| 12:27.04 | FatPhil | that comment I wrote about half an hour before I woke up this morning, after my g/f said "phil, wake up, powertop's being talked about..." |
| 12:27.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | or "root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop" |
| 12:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe |
| 12:29.25 | FatPhil | I should really fix the webserver so that it will happily serve .pl files as plain text, then I wouldn't need the .txt extension! |
| 12:31.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I like to see the .pl extension vanish too ;-) |
| 12:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no use in fixing webserver |
| 12:33.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, tested on N900 and approved :-D |
| 12:33.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: thanks a ton! |
| 12:33.37 | FatPhil | np, been meaning to do that for a long time |
| 12:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | now we just need somebody to test it on KP ;-P |
| 12:34.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: freemangordon: ^^^ ? |
| 12:36.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: zzztop is also ``` root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop ยดยดยด |
| 12:36.05 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: i'm not going to learn illegal characters |
| 12:36.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | idiot |
| 12:36.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: zzztop is also "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop "" |
| 12:36.27 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 12:36.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~zzztop |
| 12:36.35 | infobot | i heard zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop "" |
| 12:36.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang!!! |
| 12:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop "" |
| 12:37.21 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 12:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: zzztop is also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/zzztop |
| 12:41.34 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
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| 13:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | T8.3 out? |
| 13:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | our repo ninja hits again ;-P |
| 13:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ping! |
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| 13:30.02 | l4m3rx | btw it will be nice, to sync the releases of cssu-thumb & cssu-testing. |
| 13:37.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | they should be in sync |
| 13:37.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually cssu-thumb is just a layer on top of testing which is a layer on top of stock maemo |
| 13:38.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty hard to communicate |
| 13:38.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | users always seem to think of CSSU like an alternative distro |
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| 13:39.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ask even for weird stuff like "please hanmster instead of maemo filemanager in CSSU" - this is not how it works and not what it's meant to do |
| 13:40.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | l4m3rx: even when cssu-t rolls out a new version, you'll profit on cssu-thumb directly |
| 13:41.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | all update'able stuff from cssu-t gets updated on your cssu-thumb system |
| 13:41.48 | l4m3rx | well... in theory - yes... |
| 13:42.01 | l4m3rx | in real life...i'll avoid updating 'till thumb is out... |
| 13:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | which sometimes is a tad of a regression, if cssu-t rolls out a new version of a package that's also living in cssu-thumb in a thombified version |
| 13:42.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | but only then |
| 13:43.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | noting really bad will happen even then, just you lose the thumb-optimizations for a while until freemangordon updated thumb |
| 13:43.26 | l4m3rx | Yes. I''ve been using lnx for 11-12 years now... i pretty much understand it.... the main reason for delaying this update will be, that I need my phone to work 24/7 and that the last time I had bad expirience. |
| 13:43.47 | l4m3rx | For witch I don't blame any1, it just one for those things witch happend sometimes during updates :) |
| 13:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and only on that one package that got an ipdate on cssu-t, possibly for a really good reason, so you might prefer the new cssu-t version over the thombified old version |
| 13:44.50 | l4m3rx | Yes, i agree... that's why I thing delaying cssu-testing 'till cssu-thumb is ready will be good |
| 13:45.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's basically not related |
| 13:45.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I agree on delaying updates until some "quarantine time" expired and the early birds found the bugs |
| 13:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that applies to thumb as well as it does to testing |
| 13:46.35 | l4m3rx | why is there -devil then? |
| 13:46.43 | l4m3rx | I though -devel was for that. |
| 13:47.04 | l4m3rx | -devel>-testing/-thumb>-stable , isnt that the path of a package? |
| 13:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | for developers to test integration of packages. devel packages are *supposed* to be buggy |
| 13:47.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 13:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really |
| 13:47.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | -devel is sandbox/playground |
| 13:47.44 | dos1 | -devel is something like experimental in debian |
| 13:48.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | testing ---> stable is somewhat established concept |
| 13:48.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | everything else is not that clear, and -devel is basically unrelated |
| 13:51.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even a package in testing isn'r necessarily ever moving to stable eventually. It might turn out it's not fit for stable by concept |
| 13:51.53 | l4m3rx | That's understandable |
| 13:52.20 | l4m3rx | btw there should be some repo for depressed/removed packages.... and some package clean up from time to time.... |
| 13:52.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we actually eventually must start to think about that case, and how to keep testing and stable somehow in sync. Might be necessary to remove packages from testing |
| 13:53.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | removed packages could move to -devel |
| 13:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's undefined what's in devel, except that it usullay is buggy |
| 13:54.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | no user ever should want to install sth from -devel |
| 13:55.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | only devels install from devel, to debug |
| 13:56.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves |
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| 14:38.14 | jonwil | ~seen freemangordon |
| 14:38.16 | infobot | freemangordon is currently on #maemo (22h 22m 6s) #maemo-ssu (22h 22m 6s). Has said a total of 36 messages. Is idling for 6h 40m 23s, last said: 'DocScrutinizer05: it uses the same for() loop variable to print c-states and frequensies'. |
| 14:40.44 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
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| 17:05.34 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: pong |
| 17:05.35 | merlin1991 | yeah 8.3 is out |
| 17:05.44 | merlin1991 | changelog will be provided in a few minutes |
| 17:06.18 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o merlin1991] by ChanServ |
| 17:07.50 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by merlin1991 -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version: Testing(2013-10-27): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3; Stable(2013-01-10): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6 |
| 17:07.59 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o merlin1991] by ChanServ |
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| 17:21.43 | sixwheeledbeast | wishes to note that CSSU-S is "Stable(18.06.2013): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6.1" |
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| 17:23.19 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o merlin1991] by ChanServ |
| 17:23.54 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by merlin1991 -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version: Testing(2013-10-27): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3; Stable(2013-06-18): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6.1 |
| 17:23.57 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o merlin1991] by ChanServ |
| 17:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | tztztztztz |
| 17:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, nevermind |
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| 18:13.49 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: FatPhil: http://privatepaste.com/e6ad4e20cd |
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