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| 04:12.47 | Estel_ | no plans for shuttding down (hiding) extras-devel light, to make people resync with main repos again? |
| 04:12.53 | Estel_ | sound like fragmentation |
| 04:13.07 | Estel_ | btw, 10+ packages got build already |
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| 04:14.19 | Estel_ | including [shameless advert] nicest and greatest, like new build of bnf [/shameless advert] :P |
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| 07:49.10 | freemangordon | guys, help :) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1330432&postcount=143 |
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| 08:57.41 | Estel_ | kerio, dpkg -r hald-addon-bme is enuff to avoid device shutdown, when using replacement bme? |
| 08:57.51 | kerio | i don't think so |
| 08:57.54 | kerio | you have to restart hal |
| 08:57.59 | kerio | to unload hald-addon-bme |
| 08:59.29 | Estel_ | osso-actdead also wants to harakiri itself |
| 08:59.33 | Estel_ | when no hald-addon-bme |
| 08:59.52 | Estel_ | I hope it doesn't bork reboot ;) |
| 09:00.28 | Estel_ | erm, hal restart = hald restart? |
| 09:00.34 | Estel_ | kerio ^ |
| 09:00.40 | kerio | idk |
| 09:06.55 | Estel_ | freemangordon, you've said that new pixman, even with your changes, performs "almost" as good as old one |
| 09:07.01 | Estel_ | what are benefits of new one, then? |
| 09:07.18 | Estel_ | some new possibilities, some bugs fixed (you said no bugs hitting old one)? |
| 09:21.32 | Estel_ | from different barrel - where maemo loads wifi things for the first time? I would like to affect it by iw reg set JP |
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| 10:07.09 | freemangordon | Estel_: new pixman opens the door for new xserver (for example). Also microb can be re-compiled to use system pixman, now it uses built-in with NEON accel disabled |
| 10:07.25 | freemangordon | Estel_: bew pixman means we can try to upgrade cairo as well |
| 10:07.32 | freemangordon | *new |
| 10:13.38 | Estel_ | freemangordon, so answer seems simple |
| 10:13.43 | Estel_ | upgrade ;) |
| 10:14.02 | Estel_ | Am I qualified to thumb up there, or is it targeted at coders only (serious question, 0 irony) |
| 10:15.12 | Estel_ | btw, just in case you've forget, I really count on that q9700 module for usb->ethernet adaptors in next kp :P |
| 10:19.19 | freemangordon | Estel_: well, If you have an argument, it is should not matter if you are developer or not |
| 10:19.42 | freemangordon | s/is should/should/ |
| 10:19.53 | Estel_ | those things about what new pixman means, were it presented in that thread already? |
| 10:24.14 | freemangordon | hmm, no |
| 10:39.57 | kerio | freemangordon: are the changes to /proc/mounts somehow backportable? do you know? |
| 10:40.21 | kerio | the ones that make it closer to /etc/mtab |
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| 11:38.35 | freemangordon | kerio: no idea |
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| 13:09.51 | merlin1991 | Estel_: I wont shut down devel light, because I use it myself :D |
| 13:09.55 | merlin1991 | I'll sync it soon though |
| 13:10.46 | merlin1991 | also it does have a distinct advantage of a smaller packages file |
| 13:12.05 | freemangordon | merlin1991: what's your opinion re pixman? |
| 13:12.35 | merlin1991 | no regressions --> thumbs up, weird shit --> no can do, stuff still todo --> hey you're developer, get on it ;) |
| 13:12.44 | merlin1991 | s/on/to/ |
| 13:12.48 | merlin1991 | arf |
| 13:12.56 | merlin1991 | more than one on in the sentence |
| 13:13.17 | merlin1991 | I just hope we don't run into more problems with our ancient X |
| 13:14.01 | merlin1991 | btw HEL airport is nice |
| 13:14.14 | merlin1991 | currently sits there waiting for the next flight |
| 13:14.18 | freemangordon | merlin1991: well, there ARE some 5% speed regressions on some of the benchmarks, but vast improvement on some other |
| 13:14.40 | freemangordon | merlin1991: that's why I am undecided. |
| 13:14.58 | merlin1991 | we could try throwing in some debug stuff to measure usage in the general case |
| 13:15.02 | merlin1991 | over a week or so |
| 13:15.21 | merlin1991 | and if the speedups hit the more used parts and vice versa I'd say perfect |
| 13:16.15 | freemangordon | merlin1991: well, IIUC it is not that simple. How we can estimate the speedup in microb rendering if compiled against system pixman? (just an example) |
| 13:16.52 | merlin1991 | IIUC? |
| 13:16.58 | freemangordon | ~iiuc |
| 13:16.58 | infobot | iiuc is probably If I Understand Correctly. Well, that's my best understanding. |
| 13:17.30 | freemangordon | merlin1991: also, look at the benchmarks |
| 13:17.34 | merlin1991 | dunno if we look at the usage of pixman stuff, and the faster stuff is used way more often, then it should speed up the system in general |
| 13:17.35 | merlin1991 | will do |
| 13:17.42 | merlin1991 | atm crafting a tmo message |
| 13:18.13 | freemangordon | merlin1991: the preformance difference is some 2-5 %, well enough in the error margin |
| 13:18.31 | freemangordon | (excluding some exotic I'll fix if it makes sense) |
| 13:28.34 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: any idea why all cairo demos are faster on stock? |
| 13:29.23 | freemangordon | merlin1991: I guess upstream has a couple of more checks that lead to that small performance loss |
| 13:30.55 | freemangordon | merlin1991: but it is not that bad, I mean, I can swallow 3% performance loss |
| 13:31.10 | freemangordon | merlin1991: also when compiled with 4.7.2, it looks different ;) |
| 13:31.16 | merlin1991 | yea |
| 13:31.21 | merlin1991 | but that's future talk ;) |
| 13:31.28 | freemangordon | yeah :D |
| 13:31.31 | merlin1991 | also you'd have to compare that to stock on 4.7.2 ;) |
| 13:32.03 | freemangordon | merlin1991: I am not sure it makes sense |
| 13:33.01 | freemangordon | as the point to introduce newer pixman is not the performance |
| 13:33.06 | merlin1991 | well possibly you have even higher regressions when comparing 4.7.2 compiled stock to pixmen |
| 13:33.09 | merlin1991 | yeah I know |
| 13:33.32 | merlin1991 | but we also don't want to get the system to a grinding halt by adding "smallish" speed regressions all over the system |
| 13:33.53 | freemangordon | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:34.06 | freemangordon | it is 4.2.1 which can;t deal well with upstream C code |
| 13:34.30 | merlin1991 | makes me wonder is gcc at fault or the upstream code? ;) |
| 13:34.36 | freemangordon | both |
| 13:35.15 | merlin1991 | err how can the code be at fault? |
| 13:35.15 | merlin1991 | weird gcc > 4.2.1 specific tweaks? |
| 13:35.44 | freemangordon | merlin1991: hmm, no, it is just that the code is more comlicated so 4.2.1 can;t optimize it well |
| 13:35.50 | freemangordon | that's my understaning |
| 13:35.59 | freemangordon | *compilcated |
| 13:36.05 | freemangordon | fuck :D |
| 13:36.23 | merlin1991 | yep the word itself is complicated aswell ;) |
| 13:37.20 | merlin1991 | I'd really try to gather *some* statistics about the more/less used functionality pixman exports as a library, if the regressions fall into not so much used areas we can go forward without loosing any sleep |
| 13:37.21 | freemangordon | naah, it is the stupid remote desktop over 3G, sometimes it does not register keypresses |
| 13:37.45 | merlin1991 | remote desktop over 3g? dafaq? |
| 13:38.06 | merlin1991 | why don't you use quassel, some shell + irssi, znc ? |
| 13:38.22 | freemangordon | merlin1991: wish you luck, just look at haow many different code paths there are in the benchmark |
| 13:38.29 | freemangordon | merlin1991: to windoze XP? |
| 13:38.49 | merlin1991 | no to your irc client |
| 13:39.23 | merlin1991 | so you have the keyboard handling locally ;) |
| 13:39.30 | freemangordon | aah, but I need my PC, i am doing some coding while taking rest from my job ;) |
| 13:40.09 | merlin1991 | you do can tab between your remote desktop window and a local irc client ;) |
| 13:40.22 | merlin1991 | also WTF do you code on windoze xp |
| 13:47.37 | merlin1991 | kerio: I just checked apt-mirror does not find the new packages, (me guesses foobar db), that will take some time to fix |
| 13:47.49 | freemangordon | merlin1991: My home desktop pc OS is Win XP |
| 13:48.21 | merlin1991 | yeah, how can you possibly get anything done on there? :D |
| 13:48.27 | freemangordon | so it does not mater what i code, I do it either inder wn or under VM |
| 13:48.32 | kerio | merlin1991: maybe i didn't make it clear enough, but i was sarcastic ;) |
| 13:49.12 | merlin1991 | kerio: even though people lately scream at me I still care about maemo ;) |
| 13:50.02 | freemangordon | merlin1991: which reminds me... when will be the next meeting? |
| 13:50.55 | merlin1991 | well next thursday or later |
| 13:51.42 | merlin1991 | bah hel homepage only has terminal, but not gates for departing flights on the webpage, now I have to stand up and go over to the list xD |
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| 14:04.06 | freemangordon | oh, poor merlin1991, he has to walk :P |
| 14:05.35 | merlin1991 | kerio: currently resyncing my apt-mirror |
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| 14:23.54 | Estel_ | urgent qauestion, please |
| 14:24.28 | Estel_ | how to deal with f****n, broken package, that fails on deinstall due to fckd postrm script, and no matter of force for dpkg -r --force-all makes a difference? |
| 14:25.03 | Estel_ | can't install any new things, and I'm urgently preparing a device for someone who is leaving soon |
| 14:25.06 | kerio | delete the postrm script from /var/dpkg/info |
| 14:25.18 | Estel_ | huh? |
| 14:25.28 | kerio | and then uninstall |
| 14:25.38 | Estel_ | doesn't even have /var/dpkg |
| 14:25.40 | Estel_ | on device |
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| 14:25.42 | kerio | er |
| 14:25.48 | kerio | hmm, /var/lib/dpkg? |
| 14:25.55 | Estel_ | (thanks for trying to help) |
| 14:26.14 | Estel_ | yes, many catalogs there |
| 14:26.21 | Estel_ | no idea where to look? |
| 14:26.31 | kerio | /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.postrm |
| 14:26.34 | kerio | delete it |
| 14:27.14 | Estel_ | LOL things for all packages here, but nothing for php5-common |
| 14:27.22 | Estel_ | yet, when trying to uninstall it: |
| 14:27.33 | Estel_ | ah shit |
| 14:27.34 | Estel_ | lol |
| 14:27.39 | Estel_ | looking from wrong device |
| 14:27.43 | Estel_ | *.* |
| 14:28.48 | Estel_ | kerio, thank you very much |
| 14:28.52 | Estel_ | worked as charm |
| 14:29.10 | Estel_ | really, how I suffered many times without knowing that |
| 14:29.24 | kerio | yeah, not reading the documentation causes that, often |
| 14:29.30 | freemangordon | :D |
| 14:29.31 | Estel_ | I wonder why it isn't first google result, everyone f**ks about force commands, which doesn't work in most cases |
| 14:29.34 | Estel_ | :D |
| 14:29.41 | Estel_ | agreed |
| 14:30.06 | Estel_ | but I tried, really, it's not my fault (tm) |
| 14:30.19 | freemangordon | it was like that (tm) |
| 14:30.28 | Estel_ | .) |
| 14:30.36 | kerio | ah shit what happened to your eye |
| 14:31.38 | Estel_ | popped up while writing "I even forgive you for asslicking, during giving help on formatting syntax to ban me (which haven't worked, anyway)" |
| 14:31.42 | Estel_ | ;) |
| 14:32.05 | Estel_ | so I'm even more glad it (advice) worked this time so "no-problem'ly" |
| 14:32.14 | Estel_ | so I'm even more glad it (advice) worked this time so "no-problem'ly" |
| 14:32.17 | Estel_ | brb, need to finish with that device |
| 14:32.21 | Estel_ | sorry for echo |
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| 14:57.59 | merlin1991 | funky my laptop keeps telling me it can run for 1 more hour |
| 14:58.05 | merlin1991 | regardless how long it ran in the meantime |
| 15:09.01 | kerio | merlin1991: it's like my homework |
| 15:09.03 | kerio | i'll do it tomorrow |
| 15:09.19 | merlin1991 | hm homework |
| 15:09.24 | merlin1991 | I shoudl read a full book |
| 15:09.33 | kerio | which kind of book? |
| 15:09.37 | merlin1991 | but I'm currently in finland, without the book :D |
| 15:10.04 | merlin1991 | actually I even forgot the title, and I have no idea what it contains, but we have to have read it after easter |
| 15:10.37 | kerio | for what? |
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| 15:39.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, andre__ left |
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| 15:41.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're in Finland?? |
| 15:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^ |
| 15:41.47 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: yep, crashing nokia headquaters and staying there long enough untill they hand out source code |
| 15:41.57 | merlin1991 | nah visiting friends .) |
| 15:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | the fist variant sounded way more fascinating |
| 15:50.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | first* |
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| 16:26.29 | Estel_ | I'm afraid no one left in Nokia HQ, that know what source code is |
| 16:27.21 | Estel_ | freemangordon, before starting N900, had you linux background? |
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| 16:28.55 | Estel_ | I'm curious, as I seem to remember vaguely, that answer is "no" or "not a much". I'm just to, finally, set u proper VM and scratchbox in it, and even patchwork a maemo dev env on my device (via easy debian, or dedicated partition and plain chroot...), and start some coding |
| 16:29.20 | Estel_ | probably, porting some terminal/CLI tools first to get a handle of how maemo works |
| 16:29.37 | Estel_ | now, doc I've seen are a mess, some reffer to pr1.1, some to diablo too... |
| 16:30.30 | Estel_ | apart from generic coding knowledge, where should beginner look for proper documentation about maemoities (thing needed only for maemo to compile) |
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| 17:09.15 | marmistrz | merlin1991: ping |
| 17:09.18 | marmistrz | freemangordon: ping |
| 17:10.07 | merlin1991 | marmistrz: pong |
| 17:10.36 | marmistrz | I noticed the things that changed about hildon-desktop and X-CSSU-Force-Landscape |
| 17:10.38 | marmistrz | in latest version |
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| 17:10.52 | merlin1991 | hit arcean over the hea |
| 17:10.55 | merlin1991 | *head* |
| 17:10.58 | merlin1991 | he's not here though |
| 17:11.08 | merlin1991 | btw cssu version, or version in cssu-devel? |
| 17:11.13 | marmistrz | he said it's something about the new "policy" |
| 17:11.16 | marmistrz | cssu testing |
| 17:11.21 | marmistrz | (esp. thumb) |
| 17:11.58 | merlin1991 | we did talk about it and X-CSSU-Force-Landscape should work again |
| 17:12.05 | merlin1991 | don't know it that is in cssu-devel already |
| 17:12.09 | marmistrz | ok, thx |
| 17:12.38 | marmistrz | just wanted to make sure with the CSSU HQ :_ |
| 17:12.45 | marmistrz | s/:_/:) |
| 17:13.56 | merlin1991 | hm looking at gitorious I don't see a related change, I'll talk to him when he shows |
| 17:15.57 | marmistrz | ok, thx |
| 17:20.11 | freemangordon | merlin1991: afaik the change is in both gitorious and caasu-devel |
| 17:20.18 | freemangordon | *cssu |
| 17:21.09 | merlin1991 | maybe already on page 2 of the changes :) |
| 17:21.22 | freemangordon | could be |
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| 17:58.26 | freemangordon | merlin1991: still no access to cssu repo? |
| 17:59.17 | freemangordon | we have way above critical mass of packages, nuclear explosion is imminent :D |
| 18:00.55 | Estel_ | is there a way to lock phone application to portrait in cssu? |
| 18:01.19 | Estel_ | it's rotating even when status applet lock is on, and it drives me mad |
| 18:01.21 | freemangordon | Estel_: you need latest and greatest HD and lock applet ;) |
| 18:01.49 | Estel_ | you mean lock applet from devel? I hope it'll make it way to cssu-thumb soon enough |
| 18:02.03 | Estel_ | thanks anyway :) |
| 18:02.23 | freemangordon | Estel_: it will make it to -thumb as usual - after CSSU-T is out :) |
| 18:02.44 | Estel_ | most of the times I'm just about to hit "answer" in landscape, and I end up hitting "reject" in portrait |
| 18:02.59 | Estel_ | yea, that was allusion that I hope for cssu-t release :p |
| 18:03.10 | Estel_ | in whatever repo |
| 18:03.39 | Estel_ | does tech staf works about import problem? last time I asked what doesnt work yet, they forget to even mention it |
| 18:04.00 | freemangordon | no idea |
| 18:04.17 | Estel_ | ...while they remembered about things like non-working maemo.org account (not garage or wiki one) |
| 18:04.45 | Estel_ | heh, merlin1991, how long ago you complained to tech staff about import non working so cssu can't get fixed in repos? |
| 18:05.43 | Estel_ | I hope it wont reveal itself to be like autobuilder - everyne told me that no one know how to fix it all the time, then, I have asked once, and jacekowski answered he know how it works :P |
| 18:05.52 | Estel_ | it's just that no one asked before |
| 18:05.58 | Estel_ | maybe it's same this time? |
| 18:07.09 | Estel_ | 3 days later we had autobuilder working, maybe this time my enfant terrible habbit of asking straight question will help again :P |
| 18:07.40 | Estel_ | shit, 5 GB home becoming too low |
| 18:07.49 | Estel_ | and I don't install everything I see |
| 18:08.29 | Estel_ | from different barrel - does anyone know how to run grub installer for maemo? |
| 18:08.37 | kerio | wat |
| 18:08.45 | Estel_ | I have something epic for maemo pentesting, waiting for arrival in repos |
| 18:08.57 | Estel_ | but part of it is installing grub to /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 18:09.09 | kerio | grub as in the grand unified bootloader? |
| 18:09.11 | Estel_ | it doesnt affect normal usage, I have it in my device |
| 18:09.12 | Estel_ | yea |
| 18:09.13 | Estel_ | :P |
| 18:09.15 | Estel_ | part of it |
| 18:09.16 | kerio | which grub? |
| 18:09.18 | Estel_ | at least |
| 18:09.20 | kerio | for x86? |
| 18:09.32 | Estel_ | yep |
| 18:09.42 | Estel_ | i mean it's going to be used with x86 |
| 18:09.54 | Estel_ | I made kon-boot work with maemo |
| 18:10.06 | Estel_ | and even got author permission to put it into non-free extras |
| 18:10.17 | kerio | can't you install it in the same way as you'd install it on a flash drive? |
| 18:10.42 | Estel_ | sure. From desktop pc. but I would like to avoid any dependency on other devices |
| 18:10.48 | Estel_ | me wanna make extras package for it |
| 18:10.57 | kerio | ship an image, i guess? |
| 18:11.05 | kerio | or just make update-grub or whatever work |
| 18:11.17 | kerio | certainly *that* part isn't arch-dependent |
| 18:11.17 | Estel_ | from device, you mean? |
| 18:11.24 | Estel_ | yes, it shouldn't be |
| 18:11.39 | kerio | maybe you'll have to tell it to do the thing for x86 |
| 18:12.02 | Estel_ | well, as with image, I would like to avoid nuking file content on mmcblk0p1 of users ;) |
| 18:12.10 | kerio | instead of complaining because "what is this and i am an ARM" |
| 18:12.15 | Estel_ | hehe |
| 18:12.31 | kerio | ...can you even install a bootloader on a single partition? |
| 18:12.33 | kerio | where does it go? |
| 18:12.52 | Estel_ | generally, maemo mass-storage mode denied kon-boot for working due to being non-bootable, even if grub installed, but I've found a way around it... |
| 18:12.58 | Estel_ | no idea, but it works :P |
| 18:13.33 | Estel_ | later I'll find equivalent of what I need to prepare partition from suckin windoze script |
| 18:13.49 | Estel_ | and we'll try to find "the least we need" for maemo counterpart for that |
| 18:14.32 | Estel_ | result is, no more need for carrying that pesky pendrives |
| 18:14.57 | Estel_ | just connect your n900 to any desktop on boot, and you may skip password on any account ;) |
| 18:14.58 | *** join/#maemo-ssu zogg_ (~zoggrules@109.67.197.191) |
| 18:15.19 | Estel_ | we will end in endgadget with their jaws dropping :P |
| 18:15.30 | Estel_ | (that was a joke, I have endgadget in ass, honestly) |
| 18:16.40 | Estel_ | still, it must look supercool to ignorants - one connect n900 to desktop, invoke terminal command, and OS on desktop - any windows or linux boot in administrator mode, without asking for password |
| 18:16.54 | Estel_ | imagine android lusers face |
| 18:17.05 | kerio | they can do the same fucking thing dude |
| 18:17.12 | Estel_ | shhh! |
| 18:17.19 | Estel_ | I knowp but they don't |
| 18:17.34 | Estel_ | especially on endgadget. there they doesn't know anything |
| 18:17.39 | Estel_ | + androids require reboot |
| 18:17.42 | Estel_ | n900 doesn't :P |
| 18:17.53 | kerio | also, why the hell are you using mmcblk0p1 |
| 18:17.55 | kerio | instead of a file |
| 18:18.01 | Estel_ | because they mass storage won't be bootable while system is loaded |
| 18:18.26 | Estel_ | because it don't hurt my mmcblk0p1 at all, loopback file might work too, if it would want to make itslf bootable |
| 18:18.45 | kerio | it won't help your mmcblk0p1 either |
| 18:18.54 | Estel_ | in which way? |
| 18:18.56 | kerio | and with an image, you can also provide a bootable linux system for cheap |
| 18:19.15 | Estel_ | thats true, too |
| 18:19.28 | Estel_ | but as for mmcblk0p1, I haven't noticed any problems |
| 18:19.37 | kerio | there's no need to dick around with the user's data if you can just modprobe g_file_storage luns=1 bootable=1 file=whatever |
| 18:19.46 | kerio | (modulo correct parameters' names) |
| 18:19.53 | Estel_ | but n900 as seed for installing linux distro in any desktop is cool idea that I've thought about before, focues on kon-boot for start |
| 18:20.12 | Estel_ | ro=1 too |
| 18:20.22 | Estel_ | hm, is it that simple? |
| 18:20.31 | Estel_ | no need to fck with loopback images externally? |
| 18:20.33 | Estel_ | nice |
| 18:20.58 | Estel_ | ro=1, because g_file_storage doesn't unmount from maemo |
| 18:21.11 | Estel_ | you DON'T want to get concurrent writes from maemo and mass storage |
| 18:21.11 | kerio | i think that writing to the file would work, too |
| 18:21.15 | Estel_ | at the same time |
| 18:21.19 | kerio | why not? it's just writing to a file |
| 18:21.28 | kerio | maemo isn't going to touch it, anyway, it's just an image |
| 18:21.37 | Estel_ | sure, both OS'es not aware of what another one is doing |
| 18:21.43 | Estel_ | try concurrent write to same thing |
| 18:21.50 | kerio | ...you're not aware of what you're doing in this case, then |
| 18:21.56 | Estel_ | i mean whole device |
| 18:22.03 | kerio | it's *a file* |
| 18:22.05 | Estel_ | image file sits on some partition |
| 18:22.17 | kerio | shit writes to the same file all the time |
| 18:22.23 | Estel_ | concurent write to same partition by two unaware oses could be catastrophic for that partition |
| 18:22.25 | kerio | yes, you might get corruption if there's no locking |
| 18:22.35 | kerio | but why would you write to that file anyway, from maemo? |
| 18:22.38 | Estel_ | but not from 2 separate oses not knowing aboyt other existence |
| 18:22.45 | Estel_ | that partition |
| 18:22.51 | Estel_ | file sits on partition |
| 18:22.53 | kerio | yes, the filesystem drivers would be confused |
| 18:22.56 | kerio | IF THERE WERE MORE THAN ONE |
| 18:23.16 | Estel_ | no idea how emmc hardware flash wearer would act, too |
| 18:23.16 | kerio | unless you're going to also mount the same image file from maemo at the same time for some weird reason |
| 18:23.23 | Estel_ | they made mass storage unmount for a purpose |
| 18:23.47 | kerio | yep, but you're going to use **a file** |
| 18:24.06 | kerio | which isn't opened by anything on maemo's side |
| 18:24.10 | Estel_ | but that file is behind partition which is behind single flash chip which is behind single controller |
| 18:24.13 | Estel_ | hardware one |
| 18:24.16 | Estel_ | transparent to OS |
| 18:24.25 | kerio | ...do you think that the export gives direct access to the hardware? |
| 18:24.29 | kerio | what the hell are you smoking |
| 18:24.38 | kerio | everything goes through linux's IO scheduler |
| 18:24.45 | Estel_ | I have no idea what would happen if two unaware things would like to write, and I don't wanna check it on my device |
| 18:24.49 | Estel_ | well |
| 18:24.52 | Estel_ | hope so |
| 18:25.24 | Estel_ | last time I asked why the fuck maemo unmount partitions when mass storage'ing, if it work without unmounting, some people warned me about serious risk ;) |
| 18:25.45 | Estel_ | I know g_file_storage is just a kernel module... |
| 18:25.47 | kerio | ...because the data *is* accessed more than once at the same time |
| 18:26.00 | Estel_ | well, lets imagine tracker traverse |
| 18:26.05 | kerio | which reads |
| 18:26.09 | Estel_ | and briefly checks image to filter it out |
| 18:26.12 | Estel_ | hm |
| 18:26.49 | Estel_ | in theory you,re right, but frankly, for what fuck I need write for kon-boot or livecd image? |
| 18:26.50 | kerio | setting it read-only is good /because you probably want it to be read-only/, not to "avoid catastrophic writes from separate things" |
| 18:26.53 | Estel_ | livecd in quotes |
| 18:26.56 | Estel_ | live whatever |
| 18:27.06 | Estel_ | it's tailored to be run from opticaml media, which is ro too |
| 18:27.09 | kerio | hell, it should be in /opt/kon-boot/something and it shouldn't be writeable by user anyway |
| 18:27.44 | Estel_ | goddie idea, but are you sure that g_file_storage bootable=1 works as advertised? |
| 18:27.53 | kerio | nah, there's no bootable in that |
| 18:27.57 | Estel_ | maybe it would spare messing with grub |
| 18:28.08 | kerio | just make sure that the image has a MBR with a bootable flag |
| 18:28.14 | kerio | most BIOSes are picky |
| 18:28.22 | Estel_ | ah, so that si why I filtered out this possibility some time ago |
| 18:28.24 | Estel_ | hm |
| 18:28.30 | Estel_ | sounds nice |
| 18:28.34 | Estel_ | will try it asap |
| 18:28.47 | Estel_ | and put you into credits (no irony) for that method if works |
| 18:29.04 | kerio | "that method" = "the way to make things boot on pcs since the 70s" |
| 18:29.04 | Estel_ | you will end up in endgadget, happy? :P |
| 18:29.18 | Estel_ | this method - loopback file via g_file_storage |
| 18:29.21 | Estel_ | don't be silly |
| 18:29.26 | Estel_ | I know about mbr ;) |
| 18:29.42 | kerio | it's just an emulated usb mass storage device :\ |
| 18:29.57 | Estel_ | had no idea it accept files directly |
| 18:30.09 | kerio | there's nothing else, in unix |
| 18:30.12 | Estel_ | what do you want, I can't know anything before actually getting to know it |
| 18:30.26 | Estel_ | so why we use swap partitions, not files :P |
| 18:30.36 | Estel_ | heard they don't work for maemo swap |
| 18:30.40 | Estel_ | at all |
| 18:31.02 | kerio | perhaps because of nokia's swap algorithm |
| 18:31.11 | kerio | which still works on normal files, but makes it worse and not better |
| 18:31.16 | kerio | because files are inherently fragmented |
| 18:31.22 | kerio | files in a filesystem i mean |
| 18:31.22 | Estel_ | shit, link for thumbified homeworld expired |
| 18:31.30 | Estel_ | and gdizzz is MIA for a while |
| 18:31.59 | kerio | also, maybe 2.6.28.10 is a bit too old to not notice the difference |
| 18:32.15 | Estel_ | probably performance would hurt too |
| 18:32.33 | kerio | hm, actually no |
| 18:32.34 | Estel_ | but I've heard files don't work for maemo swap at all (tm) |
| 18:32.43 | kerio | in 2.6, if the swapfile isn't fragmented, it's effectively /the same thing/ |
| 18:32.48 | Estel_ | well, loopback image files for easy debian hurt in performance |
| 18:32.51 | kerio | for extfs, at least |
| 18:33.07 | Estel_ | compared to native partition |
| 18:33.17 | kerio | if you mkfs and then make the swapfile, it's the same thing |
| 18:33.42 | kerio | loopback mount is a bit more complicated maybe? i dunno |
| 18:33.46 | kerio | swap is pretty optimized in the kernel |
| 18:33.59 | kerio | having a partition guarantees unfragmentedness :) |
| 18:34.02 | Estel_ | well, try it on your device and share results |
| 18:34.10 | kerio | which is the big deal here |
| 18:34.15 | Estel_ | sure, unless swap data written exceeds total swap size |
| 18:34.27 | Estel_ | then freakin alghoritm kicks in |
| 18:34.48 | Estel_ | and bye bye to consecutive linear write |
| 18:34.54 | kerio | this comes before that |
| 18:35.04 | kerio | imagine running nokia's swap algorithm on a fragmented file |
| 18:35.10 | kerio | even the first pass will be shit |
| 18:35.28 | Estel_ | but dedicated swap partition doesn't have this problem |
| 18:36.21 | Estel_ | until you already written 2GB data to a 2GB file (counting one that have been freed meantime, doesn't matter) |
| 18:36.39 | Estel_ | s/file/partition/ |
| 18:37.20 | Estel_ | unless that, it just write, ignoring free blocks in pats, where it have written already |
| 18:37.23 | Estel_ | thus ~ereswap |
| 18:37.29 | Estel_ | ~ereswap |
| 18:37.34 | Estel_ | eh, shit |
| 18:37.39 | kerio | i'm aware of what ereswap is |
| 18:37.53 | kerio | i just toggled between two partitions with a script i made for a while |
| 18:37.57 | Estel_ | I'm honored to no end ;) |
| 18:38.00 | kerio | then i just merged the partitions because i couldn't be bothered |
| 18:38.15 | Estel_ | I could, as I see hitting swap limit instantly |
| 18:38.20 | Estel_ | by slowiness of whole ui |
| 18:38.30 | Estel_ | seems to be popular experience |
| 18:38.41 | Estel_ | 9/10 times I'm right that I've just hit limit |
| 18:38.53 | *** join/#maemo-ssu xes_ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 18:39.32 | kerio | i seldom hit the 2gb limit |
| 18:39.47 | kerio | and usually it's the cue to make a BM backup because it's been a week or so |
| 18:39.48 | Estel_ | infobot, ereswap is anti swap-fragmentation tool for maemo: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84413 |
| 18:39.48 | infobot | Estel_: okay |
| 18:40.01 | Estel_ | I hit 2GB daily ;) |
| 18:41.35 | Estel_ | btw |
| 18:41.49 | Estel_ | kerio, when we are at pali's bme replacement (as we are always on it) |
| 18:42.09 | Estel_ | I have a device with borked usb phy or whatsnot, where charging worth ok via usb port |
| 18:42.22 | Estel_ | except it need putting bq2415 into dedicated mode explictly |
| 18:42.25 | Estel_ | via sysfs |
| 18:42.31 | Estel_ | normally it's not a problem |
| 18:42.40 | Estel_ | unless battery runs out completely |
| 18:43.10 | Estel_ | as then I can't charge it unless from backupmenu (which i modified to use pali's module) |
| 18:43.12 | kerio | why dedicated? |
| 18:43.26 | Estel_ | because it doesn't detect anything from data lines |
| 18:43.36 | Estel_ | so doesn't know that need to start charging |
| 18:43.42 | kerio | oic |
| 18:43.46 | kerio | so... put it in dedicated mode? |
| 18:43.56 | kerio | i'd do that in /etc/event.d/bme |
| 18:44.05 | Estel_ | sure, and if battery runs out, it won't charge when plugged charger |
| 18:44.13 | Estel_ | thats what I was asking about |
| 18:44.26 | Estel_ | where to put it to make it start charging as early as possible during boot |
| 18:44.39 | Estel_ | at least before bme shuts device down due to low voltage |
| 18:44.41 | kerio | /etc/event.d/bme is the thing that loads the modules |
| 18:44.46 | Estel_ | prefferably, even earlier |
| 18:44.49 | Estel_ | nice |
| 18:44.53 | Estel_ | huge thanks |
| 18:44.58 | kerio | you can't quite get earlier than that i think |
| 18:45.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's always preinit |
| 18:45.28 | Estel_ | for me it isn't problem to get into backupmenu and charge a little, but device is used by my 4 years old son |
| 18:45.41 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: good point, stuff like charging should be loaded then methinks |
| 18:46.00 | Estel_ | and I won't advise him to enter backupmenu root terminal and do echo dedicated > /sys/class/(...), at least until he learns how to write, lol |
| 18:46.10 | kerio | but you still have to wait until something mounts /sys to edit sysfs nodes |
| 18:46.14 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, will it work from as early as preinit? |
| 18:46.18 | kerio | ...unless you can pass it as a module parameter |
| 18:46.19 | Estel_ | hm, fbcon works... |
| 18:46.24 | Estel_ | can't |
| 18:46.29 | Estel_ | sysfs node only, sadly |
| 18:46.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the module *should* take module parameters that override defaults, on modprobing it |
| 18:46.53 | Estel_ | thats why I was concerned about preinit |
| 18:47.09 | kerio | Estel_: /etc/event.d/bme is early enough for stock-ish configs |
| 18:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: but yeah, it probably won't feel too happy without sysfs |
| 18:47.29 | kerio | nah, the module will be fine |
| 18:47.31 | kerio | but you won't |
| 18:47.32 | Estel_ | it's using bme replacement, thumb and things (so no stockich) shouldn't matter, though |
| 18:47.55 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, btw, this device is funny re usb - twl4030 or how it's called report ok |
| 18:48.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually I'm clueless how modules loaded really early handle sysfs, if there are any such modules that get loaded before sysfs mount but still do offer some sysnodes |
| 18:48.17 | Estel_ | and *sometimes* dmesg report, when charger plugged, switching from state 0 to 2 and 3 and 2 and 3 again |
| 18:48.39 | Estel_ | but as said port is ok and lines to testpoints are perfectly stable, low resistance |
| 18:48.46 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: try umounting /sys and then mounting it again |
| 18:48.49 | kerio | the things are still there |
| 18:48.52 | Estel_ | testpods under battery < - > usb port |
| 18:48.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: brilliant :-D |
| 18:49.02 | kerio | i think |
| 18:49.15 | kerio | test it on your box! |
| 18:49.20 | kerio | nothing can go wrong, surely! |
| 18:49.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | i doubt sysfs can get umounted ;-) |
| 18:50.07 | Estel_ | so if I would want super early, find where preinit mount /sys/ and modprobe my thing afterward? |
| 18:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | too many open files "error: fs in use" |
| 18:50.13 | Estel_ | then echo proper sysfs thing |
| 18:50.21 | Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, use |
| 18:50.27 | Estel_ | umount -l /sys |
| 18:50.28 | Estel_ | :P |
| 18:50.48 | kerio | Estel_: you said that the charging doesn't work anyway |
| 18:50.55 | Estel_ | lazy deattach will handle everything (tm) |
| 18:50.56 | kerio | is a behaviour the same as stock ok? |
| 18:51.10 | Estel_ | kerio, usb doesnt work anyway, charging work when forced |
| 18:51.18 | Estel_ | yea, the same on stock or whatsnot |
| 18:51.26 | Estel_ | not reflashable or coldflashable too |
| 18:51.37 | kerio | Estel_: /etc/event.d/bme |
| 18:51.40 | Estel_ | upon plugging to linuxbox usb, dmesg contains nothing (on linuxbox) |
| 18:51.43 | Estel_ | no change |
| 18:51.52 | Estel_ | 0 signs of life |
| 18:52.03 | Estel_ | charge from pc usb port as dumb device |
| 18:52.18 | Estel_ | otoh hardware on N900 reports ok |
| 18:52.31 | Estel_ | no idea what is screwed but for 100% hardware'ishly |
| 18:57.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: what are the symlinks into runlevel dirs? |
| 18:57.33 | kerio | nfc |
| 18:57.41 | kerio | probably old crap |
| 18:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you check? |
| 18:57.57 | kerio | i don't know how :s |
| 18:58.15 | kerio | but afaik there's nothing for backwards-compatibility with sysv init |
| 18:58.25 | kerio | as there usually is with these fucking non-init inits |
| 18:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ls -l /etc/rc2.d/*boot* |
| 19:00.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, that's already upstartified? |
| 19:00.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, you told it, I'm dull today, sorry |
| 19:00.53 | kerio | a lot of upstarties actually call /etc/init.d/foo so i assume there's nothing generic that does that |
| 19:01.00 | kerio | see for instance /etc/event.d/rcS |
| 19:01.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see "start on started dsme" in original events.d/bme |
| 19:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the new bme is not depending on dsme, then you probably should start on <something-earlier-in-boot> |
| 19:03.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | take care to split between bme-the-module and bme-the-hald-addon |
| 19:03.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: meh, just setting the sysnode in /etc/event.d/bme will be enough |
| 19:03.25 | kerio | i mean, it's enough to charge stock fremantle |
| 19:03.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure |
| 19:03.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | err wut? stock? |
| 19:04.03 | kerio | /etc/event.d/bme is the thing that starts bme |
| 19:04.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 19:04.11 | kerio | no charging happens before that, does it |
| 19:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | for stock that's correct |
| 19:04.49 | kerio | it's the same thing with the bme replacement |
| 19:04.52 | kerio | and it works fine |
| 19:04.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 19:05.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | since bme replacement doesn't depend on dsme |
| 19:05.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | for example |
| 19:05.25 | kerio | if ! /usr/sbin/waitfordsme ; then |
| 19:05.30 | kerio | apparently it does |
| 19:05.34 | kerio | not sure for what reason, but it does :) |
| 19:05.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the module itself can get loaded/modprobed as early as sysfs exists, the latest |
| 19:06.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | for what reason? cargo cult coding |
| 19:07.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | as already explained above, for bme replacement we should separate bme-the-module and bme-the-hald-addon_et_al into two separate upstart jobs |
| 19:07.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme-the-module "start on started sysfs" |
| 19:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | bme-the-rest "start on started hal" |
| 19:09.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I do't think anything in bme replacement gets handled/started by dsme, so why would the event-job depend on started dsme? |
| 19:10.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | the module doesn't depend on anything but kernel and maybe sysfs |
| 19:10.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so create a upstart job with correct dependencies |
| 19:12.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the whole remaining bunch of cruft (hald-addon-bme, systray-battery-applet, whatnot) I dunno who starts it and what it depends on, but for obvious reasons this will need to happen later on during init. And it's not needed by bme kernel module to start charging |
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