| 00:19.23 | Lava_Croft | screen rotation on the n900 is one of those things that sounds great, but the execution just wants makes you want to shut down your n900 |
| 00:19.42 | Lava_Croft | just wants to make you* durrrr |
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| 00:51.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | shoot down* |
| 00:57.43 | Lava_Croft | 'shooting down' an electronic device would only make sense if it tried to kill me or something |
| 00:57.46 | Lava_Croft | skynet orso |
| 00:58.05 | Lava_Croft | also, where am i going to get a new one then? :) |
| 00:58.10 | Lava_Croft | and shooting on christmas? |
| 00:58.12 | Lava_Croft | tsk |
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| 01:22.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok :-) |
| 01:23.44 | Lava_Croft | Ill do it the 27th |
| 01:23.47 | Lava_Croft | ;) |
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| 02:43.27 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: still awake? |
| 03:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup |
| 03:04.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^ |
| 03:05.24 | merlin1991 | pm |
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| 12:11.08 | ThreeM | hi there |
| 12:11.17 | ThreeM | is there any changelog vor 7.1 ? |
| 12:11.44 | freemangordon | ThreeM: on TMO, wiki is broken atm |
| 12:12.08 | ThreeM | ahh oki :( |
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| 12:56.23 | BCMM | what's the correct way to have CSSU and a real /usr/bin/top? |
| 12:56.44 | BCMM | apt-get says that installing procps will remove usybox-symlinks-procps and mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 12:57.08 | kerio | BCMM: well, removing mp-fremantle-community-pr won't really remove CSSU |
| 12:57.19 | BCMM | is it not cssu's metapackage |
| 12:57.40 | BCMM | i mean, will i still get updates without it? |
| 12:57.45 | kerio | not from HAM |
| 12:57.56 | BCMM | how, then? |
| 12:58.01 | kerio | from apt, maybe |
| 12:58.13 | kerio | or you could reinstall the metapackage, update, install procps again every time |
| 12:58.19 | BCMM | i've been told not to do apt-get update on the n900 |
| 12:58.49 | BCMM | debian packages can depend on "one of these two packages", right? why can't it depend on procps or the bb symlink? |
| 12:59.08 | kerio | BCMM: one of them conflicts with the other |
| 12:59.34 | BCMM | kerio: i know, they provide the same files |
| 12:59.41 | kerio | no, i mean |
| 12:59.49 | kerio | busybox-symlinks-procps has Conflicts: procps |
| 13:00.00 | BCMM | i know |
| 13:00.22 | kerio | hrmpf, there's no equivs in the repos |
| 13:00.48 | BCMM | sorry, I'm slightly newbish on debian packaging, what are equivs? |
| 13:00.49 | kerio | BCMM: hold on, i'll make a fake busybox-symlinks-procps package |
| 13:01.03 | kerio | BCMM: a bunch of scripts to make dummy packages |
| 13:01.26 | BCMM | is that debian's way of recording that bb-s-p has the same functionality as procps? |
| 13:01.45 | kerio | BCMM: not quite, Conflicts tells dpkg to never have both installed at the same time |
| 13:01.53 | kerio | busybox-symlinks-procps also has Provides: procps |
| 13:02.19 | kerio | it tells dpkg that busybox-symlinks-procps fulfills dependencies on procps |
| 13:02.38 | BCMM | kerio: provides: procps means that a package requirong procps will be satisfied by bb s p? |
| 13:02.39 | freemangordon | kerio: OMP rotation in tasknav - how to reproduce? |
| 13:03.04 | BCMM | kerio: so why doesn't the metapackage just require procps? then it would work with either package, right? |
| 13:03.14 | kerio | BCMM: Provides can't specify a version |
| 13:03.25 | BCMM | ah, i think i see now |
| 13:03.28 | kerio | and the metapackage depends on the updated version so that HAM can update busybox with all its extra packages |
| 13:03.43 | kerio | BCMM: the fix is to make a busybox-symlinks-procps dummy package with a high version that doesn't care about procps |
| 13:04.01 | BCMM | and is it not possible for a package to depend on "one or the other of these packages"? |
| 13:04.13 | kerio | ...actually, yes |
| 13:05.15 | kerio | but if you make the metapackage depend on "busybox-symlinks-procps (>= whatever version it needs) | procps" then the dependency would be fulfilled already, because busybox-symlinks-procps Provides procps |
| 13:05.15 | BCMM | sorry, the only comparable thing i'm really familiar with is Gentoo's "virtual/" system |
| 13:05.46 | kerio | the metapackage thing is just a bunch of bullshit, and not really what apt is supposed to work with |
| 13:05.58 | BCMM | what's the normal Debian way of saying, for example, "package requires a Java runtime but doesn't care which implementation is used" |
| 13:06.13 | BCMM | (for a reasonable common example)!? |
| 13:06.30 | BCMM | (sorry for !, on n900 kb) |
| 13:07.53 | kerio | BCMM: depend on a certain package name |
| 13:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if I could kick ass of dpkg / apt database with a hexeditor or whatever, to fix that shit |
| 13:08.01 | kerio | and the various JVMs would Provide it |
| 13:08.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: just make a busybox-symlinks-procps package with a high version |
| 13:08.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc how to do that |
| 13:08.47 | kerio | freemangordon: do you have a box with equivs installed? |
| 13:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | just know I got my MP deinstalled by procps |
| 13:08.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | or camera-ui |
| 13:08.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever |
| 13:09.05 | BCMM | kerio: ah, i see. same ideas as gentoo's virtual/ category; making sure individual packages don't have to mantain alternatives lists |
| 13:09.20 | kerio | BCMM: it's what kernel-power does, for instance |
| 13:09.55 | BCMM | kerio: provides the normal kernel, right? |
| 13:09.57 | kerio | it provides a bunch of kernel-feature- packages |
| 13:10.05 | BCMM | ah, i see |
| 13:10.37 | BCMM | uh, why does the symlink package provide procps rather than the other way around, when the symlink package is the default? |
| 13:11.05 | BCMM | i mean, why doesn't procps provide: busybox-symlink-procps? |
| 13:11.41 | kerio | because procps doesn't provide symlinks for busybox to act as procps :) |
| 13:11.50 | BCMM | fair enough |
| 13:12.16 | kerio | and a bunch of stuff in debian depends on procps |
| 13:12.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I want that friggin messybox just to drop and keep sticky stinky fingers off (proc)ps |
| 13:12.37 | BCMM | oh i remember, you said the metapackage depends on the ymlink package because it wants to specify a version, not as an odd way of saying it needs a procps implementation |
| 13:13.06 | kerio | that, too |
| 13:13.42 | BCMM | another newbie question: why can't procps substitute BB's symlinks instead of conflicting with the package? |
| 13:13.53 | BCMM | sorry, forgot what the feature is called |
| 13:14.17 | BCMM | that thing where you can replace another packages file, and it will get cleanly put back if you uninstall |
| 13:14.23 | kerio | procps don't care, procps don't give a fuck |
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| 13:14.37 | BCMM | (i should know this, I used it to replace my boot video cleanly...) |
| 13:14.37 | kerio | besides, it's in the sdk/tools repo, so it shouldn't even be installed on normal n900s |
| 13:14.53 | kerio | BCMM: dpkg-divert, but that's not really the cleanest way to replace it :) |
| 13:14.57 | BCMM | wait, what? do i have a repo i shouldn't? |
| 13:15.00 | kerio | you can remove the boot video package cleanly |
| 13:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, tbh I probably would want procps to become gnuprocps |
| 13:15.29 | kerio | and add your own entry to /etc/hildon-welcome/ |
| 13:15.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | just like everything else - though it makes my ass bleed |
| 13:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check sth |
| 13:16.23 | BCMM | kerio: yes, but then my boot video package would complain of a conflict instead of just installing |
| 13:16.39 | kerio | BCMM: nah, there's a directory for entries, you can have multiple ones |
| 13:16.46 | kerio | hildon-welcome is actually fairly decent in that regard |
| 13:17.33 | kerio | goddammit, why does equivs require this much stuff |
| 13:18.00 | kerio | oh well |
| 13:18.02 | BCMM | kerio: yes, but multiple entries = multiple videos playing on boot |
| 13:18.26 | kerio | BCMM: so remove hildon-welcome-default-logo |
| 13:18.31 | kerio | :) |
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| 13:19.01 | kerio | i'm not sure if you can prompt the removal of a package from a .install |
| 13:19.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | mv $(dpkg -L procps|grep /usr/bin/) /usr/bin/gnu/ ???? |
| 13:19.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: /bin/ps |
| 13:20.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm ok, maybe there's sth missing, but was this a viable way to handle this shit? |
| 13:20.26 | kerio | sure, but it becomes a manual install |
| 13:20.33 | kerio | hell, at that point why not /usr/local? |
| 13:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I couldn't care less |
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| 13:21.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | now for camrea-ui |
| 13:21.39 | chem|st | moin |
| 13:21.42 | kerio | manual install for that, too |
| 13:21.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got stock camera |
| 13:21.48 | kerio | i s'pose |
| 13:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I the fuck want to keep it, still do update to new T7 |
| 13:22.22 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: divert /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch somewhere else in /opt maybe |
| 13:22.35 | kerio | then put your camera-ui.launch there |
| 13:22.40 | chem|st | can s/o help me out on tmo, a guy is stuck with stabe upgrade and I have no idea apart of telling him to apt-get upgrade without any devel repos active |
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| 13:23.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: apt-get install maemo-mp-cssu-stable ? |
| 13:23.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: sudo dpkg-divert /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch |
| 13:24.04 | kerio | then copy your old /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch there |
| 13:24.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't have a .launch for nicocam afaik |
| 13:24.28 | kerio | future camera-ui installs will put that file in /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch.distrib |
| 13:24.30 | kerio | we do |
| 13:24.36 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: don't know if apt-get install -f will do the job as it is allready flagged for install |
| 13:24.56 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i think that the rest is about the same |
| 13:24.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: I'm lost |
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| 13:25.13 | chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: drunk again|still |
| 13:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ask kerio, he is a fool but he knows a shitload of apt and dpkg ;-) |
| 13:25.44 | kerio | chem|st: who's the stuck guy? |
| 13:26.05 | kerio | oh, "zero" |
| 13:26.08 | chem|st | kerio: it was with cssu-testing that you had to fix dependencies yourself as ham does not uninstall things |
| 13:26.38 | chem|st | but I did not upgrade anything... might it be that he has testing? |
| 13:26.50 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hold on, you're still with the old camera-ui right? |
| 13:27.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | not still, again |
| 13:27.18 | kerio | sudo dpkg-divert --divert /opt/camera-ui.bullshit /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch |
| 13:27.22 | kerio | sudo apt-get upgrade camera-ui |
| 13:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get install camera-ui=<version> |
| 13:27.36 | kerio | yeah, yeah |
| 13:27.59 | kerio | but by diverting the .launch file away, you'll just stay with your current camera-ui.launch |
| 13:28.05 | kerio | as it upgrade |
| 13:28.06 | kerio | s |
| 13:28.25 | kerio | chem|st: we need the actual error message to help that guy |
| 13:28.37 | kerio | "please use nokia pc suite" can mean a ton of shit |
| 13:29.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought that's been killed in cssu HAM? |
| 13:29.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe not in S |
| 13:29.47 | kerio | i think that the error message is still the same, you just get the full error if you want |
| 13:29.51 | chem|st | not in S |
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| 13:49.12 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i has a dummy symlinks-procps package |
| 13:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | if this helps me using T while still proper ps, I'm your thankful fan |
| 13:50.58 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1405219/busybox-symlinks-procps_42_all.deb |
| 13:51.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn your HTTPS ! |
| 13:51.42 | kerio | lol why u mad tho |
| 13:51.55 | kerio | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1405219/busybox-symlinks-procps_42_all.deb |
| 13:53.43 | BCMM | kerio: cool |
| 13:53.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | mad cause |
| 13:53.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | FEHLER: Fehler beim Prüfen des Zertifikates für dl.dropbox.com: unable to get local issuer certificate |
| 13:53.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Verwenden Sie »--no-check-certificate«, um zu dem Server »dl.dropbox.com« eine nicht gesicherte Verbindung aufzubauen. |
| 13:53.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | Es ist nicht möglich, eine SSL-Verbindung herzustellen. |
| 13:54.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | (and wget doesn't obey LANG=C) |
| 13:54.15 | kerio | try LC_ALL |
| 13:54.25 | kerio | anyway, the http link works fine too |
| 13:54.30 | kerio | and wget should really learn about ssl |
| 13:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I already figured that, thanks :-) |
| 13:54.42 | BCMM | kerio: btw the reasoning for my boot video is that the package installs without issues and disables those damn hands, and doesn't prevent removal of the hands package afterwarss |
| 13:55.11 | kerio | BCMM: yeah but what if i want both? |
| 13:55.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what's the howto? |
| 13:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | dpkg install, profit? |
| 13:55.49 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: install that .deb, be happy ever after |
| 13:55.51 | kerio | yep |
| 13:56.05 | kerio | it's just an empty busybox-symlinks-procps package at version 42:42 |
| 13:56.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gather I still need to reinstall MP |
| 13:56.11 | kerio | yes |
| 13:56.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | k |
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| 13:57.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | BM time |
| 13:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I first should get another coffee, to not die from boredom during this enterprise |
| 13:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | BM: 15min, reinstall MP, probably 20min |
| 13:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | find out if I still need to update T7 after that: rest of the day |
| 13:58.51 | kerio | 15 minutes? what the eff |
| 13:59.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | boot plus full backup? sure |
| 13:59.09 | kerio | how is "reinstall MP" a 20 minute endeavour |
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| 14:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | because it will face me with all sorts of "DANGER, DOOM! I'll nuke your X, Y, CAM, $RANDOM" |
| 14:00.21 | kerio | have you diverted camera-ui.launch like i told you? |
| 14:00.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, I pondered going back to nicocam for now |
| 14:00.49 | kerio | so this is how much you trust me :s |
| 14:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I trust you |
| 14:01.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're just too smart for me |
| 14:01.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 14:02.13 | kerio | ... |
| 14:02.16 | kerio | ¬.¬ |
| 14:02.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd actually ponder how to link camera-ui into alternatives |
| 14:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the concept at least |
| 14:02.52 | kerio | make it a user-upgradeable package |
| 14:03.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme first check what would happen when I installed MP right now |
| 14:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth wrong with internet today? |
| 14:08.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* |
| 14:09.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | THAT'S why I estimated 20min for "install MP": pastebin.com/5Tb8cF7B |
| 14:09.41 | kerio | oh, because you haven't actually upgraded in a while |
| 14:10.00 | kerio | like, this update |
| 14:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF pavumeter |
| 14:11.40 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: can .install files remove packages? |
| 14:12.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, not afaik |
| 14:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you get something in *install script doing that, or some conflicts will automatically remove pkgs |
| 14:13.22 | kerio | add a stock-camera-ui package with the stock camera, make a page in the wiki with two .install files, one that removes stock-camera-ui and installs camera-ui, another that removes camera-ui and installs stock-camera-ui |
| 14:13.32 | kerio | i'm not sure that conflicts will remove packages in HAM |
| 14:13.49 | kerio | if so then it's even easier, make camera-ui and stock-camera-ui provide/replace/conflict with each other |
| 14:13.59 | kerio | and make them both user packages so they can be updated |
| 14:14.17 | kerio | camera-ui has to be nicocam at this point |
| 14:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/meetings/2012-05-14.txt |
| 14:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you basically just sketched what we designed for alternative/optional CSSU pkgs |
| 14:32.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | backing up opt - time:380 |
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| 14:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily this works unattended |
| 14:34.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | time:460 |
| 14:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | 715s for opt |
| 14:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, now for your awesome dummy pkg |
| 14:44.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | 42 \o/ |
| 14:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | must be the right thing :-) |
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| 14:52.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: merlin1991: could you check http://paste.ubuntu.com/1467293/ please? |
| 14:52.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | if it looks sane |
| 14:53.02 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: if you're *that* worried, install the old mp and upgrade via HAM |
| 14:53.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | you won't believe me, I already pondered that |
| 14:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but actually CBA now, just want this to finish |
| 14:54.17 | kerio | looks right |
| 14:54.21 | kerio | remember to reboot afterwards |
| 14:54.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you see anything fishy? |
| 14:54.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, thanks |
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| 15:02.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yay: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1467313/ |
| 15:02.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | only about 10 minutes |
| 15:03.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the transitions.ini change should be an empty "whitelist = " entry at the end |
| 15:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | WRF?! >>gconftool-2: I've been haxored to use xml::/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults as the config source. |
| 15:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | WTF* |
| 15:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the diff showed about every single line different |
| 15:04.40 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah but the change from the old stock was the last |
| 15:04.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | changed sequence, changed whitespace, whatnot |
| 15:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | reboot time |
| 15:05.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | dsmetool -b that is |
| 15:06.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | trying to be nice |
| 15:06.26 | kerio | just REISUB dat shit |
| 15:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Tmaemo7.1 \o/ |
| 15:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | proper ps too |
| 15:09.44 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 15:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~spell reisub |
| 15:10.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ^^^ pick yours |
| 15:11.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW: sorry? |
| 15:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or quite brittish: beg your pardon |
| 15:12.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | -t |
| 15:13.59 | kerio | hold alt+sysrq and then r (keyboard in xline mode), e (TERM everything), i (KILL everything), s (sync filesystems), u (remount everything read-only), b (reboot) |
| 15:16.10 | kerio | mnemonic: reboot even if system utterly broken |
| 15:18.16 | BCMM | kerio: and where is the system request key on my n900? |
| 15:22.22 | kerio | BCMM: \_o_/ |
| 15:33.26 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean (~arcean@aaet151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:35.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, sysreq, suuure |
| 15:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | drills a hole into N900 to implant a sysreq key |
| 15:36.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah BCMM beat me to it |
| 16:30.30 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: have actually cursed the lack of sysrq more than once |
| 16:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: funny factoid: you *could* define a sysreq key in maemo kernel |
| 16:31.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should chose this one wisely though |
| 16:32.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's disabled on purpose in default maemo config |
| 16:33.57 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: at build time? is that a normal kernel feature or a maemo patch? never noticed it in a regular menuconfig |
| 16:34.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's some disabling echo 0>/proc/sysreq in preinit iirc |
| 16:35.34 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: not sure i understand |
| 16:36.14 | BCMM | i know that proc node, it's for triggering magic without pressing keys, like over ssh |
| 16:37.58 | BCMM | ah nm |
| 16:38.23 | BCMM | i'm thinking of sysrq-trigger, and that one's a bitmask of enabled sysrq magic |
| 16:39.21 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i'm on kernel-power and have a /proc/sysrq-trigger but no /proc/sysrq |
| 16:41.26 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean (~arcean@aaet151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:59.13 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 17:01.17 | freemangordon | the fuck. how it is possible i am so stupid to not include pango in -thumb?!? |
| 17:02.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: I only have a cloudy memory of that stuff, seen it a while ago, noticed it, placed it into a category of "eventually you might return here" in my mind |
| 17:05.18 | BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: subsequently realised that the trigger is in /proc but the control interface is in a subdir |
| 17:10.51 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-122-156-19-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 17:21.08 | merlin1991 | arcean: ping |
| 17:24.39 | freemangordon | oh, not only pango, freetype too :( |
| 17:27.44 | kerio | freemangordon: would it have a huge impact? |
| 17:27.52 | freemangordon | I hope so |
| 17:28.04 | freemangordon | freetype is font rendering afaik |
| 17:28.22 | merlin1991 | yep |
| 17:28.29 | kerio | freemangordon: btw, you're still missing x11 with gcc 4.7 |
| 17:29.10 | freemangordon | I know, will play with it when everything else is ok |
| 17:31.23 | *** join/#maemo-ssu luf (~luf@ip-89-102-208-114.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
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| 17:44.03 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean (~arcean@aaet151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:45.24 | arcean | merlin1991: pong |
| 17:45.52 | merlin1991 | see pm (which I'm writing atm) |
| 17:46.20 | arcean | ok |
| 17:52.10 | luf | I'll not be available for the meeting today. I'll be available tomorrow. |
| 17:53.32 | merlin1991 | damn |
| 17:56.22 | merlin1991 | luf: see pm |
| 17:57.41 | luf | Our friends from Germany will visit us today ;) We see each other twice per year ... |
| 17:58.06 | merlin1991 | ah well I guess that's more important than cssu bug meetings .D |
| 17:59.29 | luf | For sure it is more important for me than weekly meeting (which maybe should be moved to tomorrow). |
| 18:00.51 | arcean | topic states that the meeting is tomorrow :P |
| 18:01.05 | merlin1991 | that too |
| 18:01.25 | luf | Aaaah I miss that :D Good for me. |
| 18:01.37 | luf | thx |
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| 18:54.55 | *** part/#maemo-ssu thedead1440 (~thedead14@cm53.sigma102.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 19:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | what friggin meeting today? |
| 19:42.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, arcean already noticed that too |
| 19:49.27 | freemangordon | kerio: h-d tasknav bug confirmed, though I don;t know how to reproduce it reliably |
| 19:50.32 | kerio | freemangordon: two bugs actually - for one thing, sometimes the thumbnail isn't rotated, and some other times there's a bar on the right side (matching the one that used to be there on top before rotating) |
| 19:50.54 | kerio | how do i grab a screenshot from the commandline? |
| 19:51.21 | freemangordon | i took a picture with my second device, will post it in TMO |
| 19:51.33 | freemangordon | BTW microb is affected too |
| 19:52.23 | kerio | freemangordon: when are you going to compile fennec with gcc4.7, btw? |
| 19:52.41 | kerio | freemangordon: by both bugs? |
| 19:52.55 | freemangordon | kerio: both? |
| 19:53.25 | kerio | thumbnail not rotating, and portrait thumbnail with artifact matching landscape menubar |
| 19:53.43 | freemangordon | I see only the second one |
| 19:53.58 | freemangordon | how to reproduce first one? |
| 19:54.01 | kerio | freemangordon: open OMP, enter the artist view, open the tasknav and start rotating |
| 19:54.37 | freemangordon | hmm, nothing strange |
| 19:54.38 | kerio | heh, got both at the same time |
| 19:54.43 | kerio | freemangordon: try a couple of times |
| 19:55.29 | freemangordon | kerio: WFM, do you have forced rotation enabled? |
| 19:55.33 | kerio | no |
| 19:55.44 | freemangordon | me too, but cannot reproduce it |
| 19:56.20 | freemangordon | kerio: however, I hope this is Qt thing, I am concerned about microb (not being Qt) |
| 20:00.55 | freemangordon | arcean, what have you done :( |
| 20:09.46 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean (~arcean@aaet151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 20:11.19 | kerio | <freemangordon> arcean, what have you done :( |
| 20:15.01 | kerio | freemangordon: yay pango |
| 20:23.19 | freemangordon | kerio: freetype to com shortly :) |
| 20:25.31 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean_ (~Arcean@aaet151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 20:28.14 | freemangordon | arcean: hi. h-d has a regression |
| 20:33.40 | arcean | freemangordon: then tell me about it :) |
| 20:37.11 | freemangordon | arcean: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1307992&postcount=1044 |
| 20:38.07 | freemangordon | thumbnail is drawn as if the application is in landscape. the same happened once with microb, but I am unable to reproduce it |
| 20:38.33 | kerio | arcean: not only that, i got it to display the correct thumbnail but at the wrong angle |
| 20:38.33 | arcean | about the first - that's why we are fixing Qt |
| 20:38.54 | kerio | so it had a transparent part |
| 20:38.57 | arcean | kerio: yes, I know about that too |
| 20:39.19 | arcean | I'm worried about microb part |
| 20:39.24 | freemangordon | arcean: :nod: |
| 20:39.30 | freemangordon | me too |
| 20:39.45 | arcean | freemangordon: by microb you mean the window with web page or the list of pages? |
| 20:39.52 | freemangordon | arcean: web page |
| 20:40.14 | arcean | so it's displayed in portrait with landscape thumbnail-bar ? |
| 20:40.18 | freemangordon | it was in portrait, with the same artifact |
| 20:40.20 | freemangordon | yes |
| 20:40.39 | freemangordon | happened only once |
| 20:41.22 | freemangordon | could be some timingissue |
| 20:42.35 | arcean | browser-ui should land on the whitelist |
| 20:42.46 | arcean | for me the default portrait mode is unusable :/ |
| 20:43.00 | freemangordon | arcean: irrelevant |
| 20:43.06 | freemangordon | we can;t do that |
| 20:43.15 | kerio | freemangordon: well, we can do that |
| 20:43.51 | freemangordon | kerio: no , we can't, CSSU is not supposed to break the stock functionality |
| 20:46.28 | arcean | freemangordon: I'm able to reproduce the OMP thing, but microb is out of my scope |
| 20:46.31 | arcean | at least for now :P |
| 20:47.02 | arcean | *reproduce on clean Testing7.1 |
| 20:47.16 | freemangordon | arcean: out of scope? you mean you can;t reproduce it or what, cannot parse :) |
| 20:47.28 | arcean | can't reproduce :) |
| 20:47.48 | freemangordon | toldya, it has happened only once |
| 20:48.15 | freemangordon | but looks like the same bug as with OMP |
| 20:49.21 | freemangordon | i.e. for some reason h-d "thinks" the application does not support portrait |
| 20:50.18 | arcean | ok, I see what's going on |
| 20:50.27 | freemangordon | :) |
| 20:53.51 | arcean | rotation in progress -> h-d checks if windows supports portrait (for thumbnail) -> Qt sets portrait flags (with delay) -> h-d renders thumbnail |
| 20:54.44 | kerio | arcean: while you're fixing qt's braindead rotation, can you fix qt's braindead text input? |
| 20:54.45 | freemangordon | arcean: I bet the same happens with microb |
| 20:55.07 | freemangordon | arcean: which commit broke that? |
| 20:55.41 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@APN-122-156-19-gprs.simobil.net) |
| 20:56.22 | arcean | nothing's changed in task nav |
| 20:57.36 | arcean | I'll check this with my 'stable' branch |
| 20:59.57 | arcean | freemangordon: h-d 2.2.142-22 - the same |
| 21:00.18 | arcean | oh crap |
| 21:06.19 | freemangordon | arcean: afaik there were changes, we discussed them a couple of days ago |
| 21:10.11 | arcean | I've tested h-d from 03 Aug 2012 :D |
| 21:12.21 | arcean | I'm going to check this against master branch |
| 21:12.31 | freemangordon | arcean: well the change is somwhere between 1:2.2.142-22 and 1:2.2.146-2 |
| 21:13.01 | arcean | 2.2.142-22 is also faulty |
| 21:13.07 | freemangordon | that was replaced in todays' -thumb |
| 21:13.11 | freemangordon | arcean: it was not |
| 21:14.05 | arcean | it is :D |
| 21:14.33 | freemangordon | going to revert |
| 21:15.05 | arcean | just keep rotating till the bug appears |
| 21:15.55 | kerio | freemangordon: are you going to do freetype too? |
| 21:16.08 | arcean | IIRC we've discussed orientation lock behaviour which was wrong |
| 21:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | nicocam shows nonsensical nn.dd cm values for focus (nobody wants to know ow even believes in 0.1mm focus accuracy!) and sometimes on focusing the frame goes green and that distance reading simply disappears |
| 21:16.22 | arcean | err orientation lock behaviour was wrong |
| 21:17.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes it shows me 10.48m distance for objects a 0.8m distant, though focus seems fine |
| 21:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | when screen blanking kicks in, not even focus switch will wake up the screen again - quite unfortunate for a camera |
| 21:18.26 | kerio | does the stock camera do the last one? |
| 21:18.45 | kerio | hell, why does the screen blank |
| 21:18.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno, since you can't have both concurrently installed X-P |
| 21:19.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, hell why does the screen blank? |
| 21:19.12 | kerio | freemangordon: why does the screen blank |
| 21:19.28 | freemangordon | kerio: when? |
| 21:19.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | in camera viewfinder |
| 21:20.08 | freemangordon | iirc it is the same for stock camera-ui |
| 21:20.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels wrong nevertheless |
| 21:20.48 | freemangordon | feels right, you can open lense cover by mistake, or forget to cloase it |
| 21:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, when screen goes blank, you indeed can |
| 21:21.19 | freemangordon | and your battery will be flat in an hour |
| 21:21.21 | kerio | feature request: servomotor to open/close the lense cover |
| 21:22.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | tzzz |
| 21:22.45 | kerio | *lens |
| 21:22.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems the vanishing distance display only happens when pointing down |
| 21:23.06 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hmm, macro? |
| 21:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4 out of 5 times when facing down to the floor |
| 21:23.38 | freemangordon | arcean: cannot reproduce with 1:2.2.142-22+thumb0 |
| 21:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | "A" |
| 21:24.21 | freemangordon | arcean: oops. |
| 21:24.27 | arcean | freemangordon: give me sec |
| 21:24.34 | freemangordon | hit it :D, you were right |
| 21:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 0 out of 10 times when facing to horizon |
| 21:25.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | now if that's not a feature! ;-P |
| 21:25.21 | freemangordon | arcean: the bug is in 1:2.2.142-22 |
| 21:25.24 | arcean | freemangordon: http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3351/frame00000.png |
| 21:25.26 | arcean | :D |
| 21:25.52 | kerio | arcean: how do you make screenshots in portrait? |
| 21:25.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | 6 out of 10 when facing down |
| 21:26.06 | arcean | gst-launch-0.10 ximagesrc ! video/x-raw-rgb,framerate=1/10 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc snapshot=false ! multifilesink location="frame%05d.png" |
| 21:26.11 | freemangordon | arcean: yeah, i reproduced it with 1:2.2.142-22+thumb0 too |
| 21:26.16 | kerio | arcean: what the shit |
| 21:26.26 | freemangordon | kerio: gstreamer shit :P |
| 21:26.42 | arcean | yeah, it even works, sometimes :D |
| 21:26.51 | kerio | arcean: i like the nice touch of showing the version on the terminal |
| 21:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | 0 out of 10 when facing to ceiling, but also 10 of 10 red frame despite correct focus |
| 21:27.29 | arcean | it was the easiest way :P |
| 21:27.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | nicocam is severely odd somehow |
| 21:27.56 | kerio | arcean: can you reproduce the other issue? |
| 21:28.28 | arcean | rotated content of a thumb? sure |
| 21:28.35 | arcean | it's almost the same bug |
| 21:29.28 | arcean | it's some kind of race condition |
| 21:29.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 7 out of 10 no distance when facing down to floor, the remaining 3 times were 6,xx and 7,xx m despite real distance ~1.20m and focus correct for all I can tell |
| 21:29.48 | arcean | between Qt and h-d |
| 21:30.08 | freemangordon | arcean: but there is check in h-d for HILDON_..._ATOM change |
| 21:30.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | something's terribly wrong with this focus thing |
| 21:30.30 | arcean | freemangordon: sometimes h-d is faster than Qt |
| 21:31.02 | freemangordon | arcean: ok, but nevertheless, the event will get fired. |
| 21:31.13 | freemangordon | (atom change) |
| 21:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | might nicocam ask for raw focus motor electrical current, not considering it takes more power to pull the lens in when facing down than it does when facing up? |
| 21:31.49 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it would be an amazing bug if so :D |
| 21:32.00 | arcean | hmm let's see if it's still there with new h-d and Qt |
| 21:32.02 | freemangordon | arcean: anyway, if you say you know whats going on, i trust you, it was too long ago i played with h-d to be able to argue :D |
| 21:32.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you're free to duplicate my findings |
| 21:32.30 | freemangordon | arcean: microb does it the same way as qt |
| 21:32.49 | arcean | freemangordon: so does the phone app? |
| 21:32.53 | freemangordon | the same for phone-ui |
| 21:32.59 | freemangordon | yes |
| 21:33.10 | arcean | I hate that :) |
| 21:33.16 | freemangordon | I know :) |
| 21:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite consistently nicocam makes 8m out of 1m distance to floor |
| 21:33.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | reproducable |
| 21:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1.30m becomes 16m |
| 21:34.56 | freemangordon | arcean: that https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/home/hd-task-navigator.c#line4597 is supposed to be called |
| 21:34.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | 60cm ->3.17m |
| 21:35.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you manage to get any readng |
| 21:36.05 | freemangordon | arcean: though I don;t remember where I add that additional stripe for landscape apps |
| 21:36.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | facing up 80cm->16cm |
| 21:37.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I take bets now on my previous assumption |
| 21:38.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | anybody holding it? |
| 21:39.31 | arcean | freemangordon: the bug is fixed with the new h-d/Qt combo |
| 21:40.10 | arcean | at least I'm not able to reproduce it easily |
| 21:40.18 | freemangordon | arcean: :D |
| 21:40.31 | freemangordon | easily or at all? |
| 21:40.35 | arcean | :D |
| 21:40.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is the package for nicocam? |
| 21:40.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | where's the bugtracker? the tmo thread? |
| 21:40.59 | arcean | I was rotating my n900 like a crazy :D |
| 21:41.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's cssu camera-ui i suppose |
| 21:41.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no such package in maemo package interface |
| 21:41.50 | freemangordon | arcean: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/home/hd-task-navigator.c#line1982 |
| 21:42.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | so who's the maintainer of that nicocam? |
| 21:42.43 | freemangordon | we need something similar in https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/hildon-desktop/blobs/master/src/home/hd-task-navigator.c#line4597 |
| 21:42.45 | kerio | freemangordon: pango+freetype working |
| 21:42.50 | freemangordon | arcean: ^^^ |
| 21:43.16 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: nicolai |
| 21:43.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and where the heck I get a hold of him? |
| 21:43.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | to fix this silly bug |
| 21:43.42 | freemangordon | on TMO? |
| 21:43.43 | merlin1991 | he answers to pm on tmo |
| 21:43.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | not acceptable |
| 21:44.04 | merlin1991 | also can you write up everything into some txt so I can check with stock cam? |
| 21:44.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I report bugs in public, not in PM |
| 21:44.20 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: well there is the nicocam thread on tmo aswell |
| 21:44.24 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you can use camera-ui replacement thread too |
| 21:44.35 | kerio | doesn't garage have a bug tracker? |
| 21:44.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | could you point me to that thread? |
| 21:44.45 | merlin1991 | kerio: aren't we read only? |
| 21:44.46 | arcean | freemangordon: that's current revision: http://gitorious.org/~arcean/community-ssu/arcean-hildon-desktop/blobs/b6bcbec89d20af5777a9c166489445407d7fd2d7/src/home/hd-task-navigator.c#line4597 |
| 21:44.51 | kerio | oh right |
| 21:47.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, took me 5 min "lemme test that nicocam now that I again got it" and I gone WTF?! |
| 21:48.17 | freemangordon | arcean: don;t see much of a difference |
| 21:48.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: you can't check that distance reading in stock cam since it's not there for quite obvious reasons ;-) |
| 21:48.51 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: maybe because it's botched when you're pointing up or down |
| 21:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the rest: simply check if screen dims in stock cam, which I guess it actually does. Yet it doesn't feel right |
| 21:49.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the whole principle how the focus works doesn't allow such readout |
| 21:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a closed loop feedback that has no absolute values you could read out |
| 21:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least no derived ones |
| 21:51.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you have something like focus motor power in a sysnode, and that's a relative value from 0 to 255 for example. Nothing you could do with this, except maybe calculate battery load |
| 21:51.51 | freemangordon | arcean: so, are you able to reproduce it with latest h-d? |
| 21:52.56 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, i can reproduce the short reported distance when pointing up and the long reported distance when pointing down |
| 21:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, i have a stock cam, on t900 |
| 21:54.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you also have a stock cam *in the repos* |
| 21:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | which I'm going to fscking install soonish, nuking my MP again |
| 21:54.54 | kerio | don't |
| 21:55.03 | kerio | the only difference in packaging is /usr/bin/camera-ui.launch |
| 21:55.09 | kerio | divert it away and copy the file manually |
| 21:55.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, stock can of course also goes into standby mode |
| 21:55.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and locked screen |
| 21:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it also doesn't even wake on shutter-trigger, not to ask for focusswitch |
| 21:57.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that focus distance readout is so extremely silly this has to change |
| 21:59.00 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/camera-ui/blobs/master/src/camera-ui2-window.c#line579 |
| 21:59.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I gather when it vanishes this simply means it decided that focus must be infinite |
| 22:00.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: alas this don't leave me any wiser |
| 22:00.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, the next few lines however |
| 22:00.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ... |
| 22:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | gfloat diopters = 0.0315*(focus-227); :-P |
| 22:00.57 | freemangordon | now you are supposed to be wiser :P |
| 22:01.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | FSCK FOCUS_DISTANCE_CM_FMT |
| 22:02.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | delete line 579 - 594 |
| 22:02.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | done |
| 22:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | only fix available for that |
| 22:02.53 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: do you have a full debian system handy? |
| 22:02.57 | kerio | deb-reversion would make your day |
| 22:03.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope |
| 22:03.12 | arcean | freemangordon: it's ok with the latest h-d/Qt |
| 22:03.16 | kerio | grab the stock camera-ui .deb, put a huge epoch at the beginning of the version, done |
| 22:03.18 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: camera-ui gets focus distance by using V4L ioctl VIDIOC_G_CTRL(V4L2_CID_FOCUS_ABSOLUTE) |
| 22:03.28 | freemangordon | arcean: great |
| 22:03.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: that's obviously a bogus value though |
| 22:04.07 | kerio | but a value, nonetheless |
| 22:04.08 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no sure, i'd bet on the used formula |
| 22:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet on my tests |
| 22:04.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | those show it's bogus |
| 22:05.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole optomechanical system has no means to evaluate true distance |
| 22:05.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | the lens is spring-fixed |
| 22:06.01 | freemangordon | "This control moves the focal point of the camera by the specified amount. The |
| 22:06.03 | freemangordon | unit is undefined. Positive values move the focus closer to the camera, |
| 22:06.06 | freemangordon | negative values towards infinity." |
| 22:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | gravity adds resp subtracts to that spring |
| 22:06.24 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that's why your bogus values |
| 22:06.38 | freemangordon | when focusing the floor/cailing :D |
| 22:06.44 | freemangordon | *ceiling |
| 22:06.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, I know that |
| 22:07.12 | freemangordon | hmm, I tend to agree we should remove that "focus distance" |
| 22:08.02 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean_ (~arcean@aaet151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 22:08.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might work when accelerometer Z(?) axis has a value of |Z|<0.1g |
| 22:08.26 | freemangordon | or we can adjust the reading by using accel readout :D |
| 22:08.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | might also work |
| 22:10.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd guess we'd need 3 formulae, one for facing up, one like the existing, and one for facing down. then interpolate between the 2 relevant ones in a ratio given by accelerometer readout for Z axis |
| 22:11.01 | kerio | stop being ridiculous |
| 22:11.16 | freemangordon | well, gravity should act in a linear way to the needed force |
| 22:11.45 | freemangordon | so a simple +a*ACC(z) should work too |
| 22:12.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | like accel=1g -> 100% formula_down. accel=0 -> 100% existing, accel=-0.5g -> (formula_up*Z + existing*(1-Z))/2 |
| 22:12.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: the spring is non-linear though |
| 22:12.42 | freemangordon | still, I think you are right and we should remove that |
| 22:13.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | acc, it's basically useless |
| 22:13.46 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i imagine a system similar to that in CD/DVD devices |
| 22:14.05 | freemangordon | you can assume it is linear (the spring) |
| 22:14.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | for focus? identical, yes |
| 22:15.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither the spring nor the motor are linear |
| 22:15.56 | freemangordon | motor? I am sure it is solenoid |
| 22:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure it is |
| 22:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just call it motor for simplicity |
| 22:16.21 | freemangordon | :) |
| 22:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and btw it eats power like mad, some 100mA |
| 22:17.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's what the driver chip is rated for |
| 22:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, what's the use of this reading? can you adjust it? no! Can you change your actions according to it? not that I see anything useful |
| 22:19.40 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 22:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | KILL pussycat KILL |
| 22:21.02 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ask merlin1991 to add it to TODOs :) |
| 22:21.54 | merlin1991 | thinks only a bugreport on bugs.maemo.org can be added to official TODOs ;) |
| 22:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | thinks bmo is in r/o mode |
| 22:22.38 | freemangordon | hmm, will it exist after the migration? |
| 22:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope so |
| 22:23.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless board goes bunkers and decides it's "too expensive to maintain" |
| 22:24.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | bonkers? |
| 22:24.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, the latter |
| 22:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, the resources and system maintenance all those systems need is negligible. It's the general system maintenance that costs, for the maemo subsystems like vBuletin management etc we actually can find volunteers |
| 22:26.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the general system administartion is not changing much when you run or not run a bugtracker for example |
| 22:27.05 | merlin1991 | thinks ro was the joke behind hist last message |
| 22:27.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 22:27.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | is immune to jokes ;-) |
| 22:29.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang, I managed to not walk more than 200 steps during last 72h, and I haven't changed clothes (though this pyjama is convenient) |
| 22:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | is the xmess outside already canceled? |
| 22:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway thanks for reminding me to send that email response, merlin1991 |
| 22:44.33 | merlin1991 | is lost |
| 22:44.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll find it on maemo-community ML in a minute or two |
| 22:46.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-December/005837.html |
