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| 08:52.00 | luf | freemangordon: I think it's good time for testing new bluez-4.99 ;) |
| 09:25.32 | kerio | luf: i keep having minor issues when connecting my BT headphones to the n900 |
| 09:27.01 | kerio | but they work fine once connected |
| 09:27.12 | kerio | and it only happens once in a while, so it's an unfindable bug :( |
| 09:27.22 | luf | kerio: no report no issues ... |
| 09:27.33 | kerio | i know :( |
| 09:27.45 | luf | What's exactly the problem? |
| 09:28.25 | kerio | i get the "connected" message and the icon in the status area, but after a tiny bit it disappears, the bluetooth icon still blue and the UI still reporting it's "connected" |
| 09:28.32 | kerio | usually disconnecting it and reconnecting it fixes it right away |
| 09:29.04 | luf | Hmmm ok. |
| 09:29.21 | luf | What are you tryiing to connect? HF or computer? |
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| 09:30.47 | kerio | luf: A2DP |
| 09:30.55 | luf | So audio ... |
| 09:31.03 | kerio | yep |
| 09:31.11 | kerio | http://www.lg.com/us/cell-phone-accessories/lg-HBS700-tone <- these ones |
| 09:31.20 | kerio | (they're *really* neat) |
| 09:32.39 | luf | I think it doesn't matter which kind. There is probably some ugly bug in audio. I'll try to find it but to be honest I'm short on time this week. |
| 09:36.49 | Skry | kerio: those do look neat, how's the audio (music) quality? |
| 09:36.56 | kerio | Skry: pretty good |
| 09:37.30 | kerio | compression artifacts tend to be exacerbated by the decode-encode-decode though, so you *really* want to start with some good quality audio |
| 09:37.50 | kerio | say, V0 VBR MP3s, or some high-bitrate CBR |
| 09:38.03 | kerio | the range is kinda poor, but i think that's also a problem of the n900 |
| 09:38.21 | kerio | it's perfectly fine if you keep your phone in a jacket's pocket, a bit less so if you keep it in your pants' pockets |
| 09:40.10 | kerio | it's got some heavy bass though, so you might need to get used to it in the beginning |
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| 09:42.20 | Skry | I have mostly flacs so that's no prob, and stuff I mostly listen is not that bass heavy. I was thinking about spending ~80eur to wired headphones so might as well give those a try. |
| 09:43.50 | kerio | mind you, they still sound worse than a good pair of wired headphones |
| 09:43.56 | kerio | they're just a lot more convenient, imo |
| 09:45.12 | Skry | well, they must beat those headphones that came with n900 so should be improvement anyways |
| 09:45.21 | kerio | i said *good* :) |
| 09:46.34 | luf | kerio: I'm just curious had you change all pulseaudio rates in N900 to 44100 from 48000? |
| 09:46.57 | kerio | luf: i changed the default one iirc |
| 09:47.00 | kerio | could it be the reason? |
| 09:47.23 | kerio | i changed default-sample-rate from 48000 to 44100 |
| 09:47.25 | luf | No I thinking about totally different thing ;) |
| 09:47.39 | kerio | luf: how many resample methods are there, btw? |
| 09:48.06 | luf | Very few :( |
| 09:48.46 | luf | Just speex and two unusable as I remember. |
| 10:03.33 | kerio | luf: how do i check what's going on with pulseaudio at a specific time? |
| 10:03.47 | kerio | for instance, how do i check what's the samplerate of a certain stream? |
| 10:08.58 | luf | kerio: pactl list |
| 10:09.05 | kerio | luf: anyway, how do we configure audio sink? |
| 10:09.44 | luf | kerio: :) Look into the history ... |
| 10:12.34 | kerio | anyway, it feels like your bluez is a bit less reliable :( |
| 10:12.58 | kerio | it makes no sense though, it's the same codebase |
| 10:13.45 | kerio | maybe it's just that i notice these annoyances more, though? |
| 10:16.24 | kerio | luf: why is your pulseaudio +0m6? |
| 10:18.01 | luf | kerio: I like feelings :) |
| 10:18.13 | luf | It's easy to find the problem with it. |
| 10:18.32 | luf | kerio: pulseaudio because of some bt patch + new module? |
| 10:19.08 | kerio | luf: so? |
| 10:19.15 | kerio | +0m6 would be harmattan |
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| 10:19.32 | luf | No. |
| 10:20.20 | luf | It's just version of the package not the maemo version as I understand from packages (changelogs). |
| 10:20.28 | kerio | why do you think +0m5 is called m5? |
| 10:21.04 | kerio | luf: anyway, there *should* be no resampling in pulseaudio |
| 10:21.17 | kerio | sink input from mafw is s16le 2ch 44100hz |
| 10:21.26 | kerio | and the sink output to my headphones is s16le 2ch 44100hz |
| 10:24.50 | luf | And what do you mean with less reliable - worse sound? disconnecting? lagging? |
| 10:25.02 | kerio | disconnecting sometimes |
| 10:25.13 | kerio | but as i said, maybe it used to happen before too and i just didn't focus on it |
| 10:25.24 | luf | It's the same as with stock ... |
| 10:26.21 | kerio | apophenia is a bitch |
| 10:29.34 | luf | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51894 |
| 10:29.41 | luf | for example ... |
| 10:30.12 | luf | But I can't say if it's more/less often with stock/4.99 |
| 10:30.28 | kerio | yeah, yeah |
| 10:30.34 | kerio | that's what i was guessing |
| 10:34.13 | kerio | luf: what would really be awesome would be an ICD plugin to do PANU in a simple way :3 |
| 10:37.37 | luf | :D Sure. |
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| 10:37.55 | luf | It should be nice project for you, isn't it? |
| 10:38.36 | kerio | luf: that would involve me doing things |
| 10:39.29 | luf | As I saw you have a lot of time at uni ;) |
| 10:41.15 | luf | kerio: bluez - disconnecting. I need some debug logs and maybe also hcidump if you're able to collect it .... |
| 10:42.07 | kerio | luf: i checked the syslog (it wasn't doing debug output though) and it only said "bluetoothd: audio device disconnected" or something similar |
| 10:42.54 | luf | kerio: Are you sure you had bluetoothd in debug (-d '*') ? |
| 10:43.08 | kerio | as i said, i didn't have it in debug mode :) |
| 10:43.50 | luf | It's useless without debug. |
| 11:51.05 | kerio | luf: the issue is a lot simpler than i thought, i think |
| 11:51.50 | kerio | it's a range issue |
| 11:52.38 | kerio | luf: keeping the connection open requires less quality than opening a new one, or reopening it after powersaving |
| 11:52.51 | kerio | is there a way to pump up the tx power? |
| 11:52.54 | kerio | :3 |
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| 12:42.00 | luf | kerio: I don't know. I'm not such good in hw ... |
| 12:43.11 | luf | kerio: Do you have some debug? Or from what you judged that it's txt power? BTW increasing tx power leads to higher battery usage. |
| 12:43.42 | kerio | luf: it connects fine when i'm holding the n900 vaguely close to my headphones, it doesn't connect when the n900 is in my pocket :) |
| 12:45.55 | luf | kerio: And are you sure the problem is on N900 side? |
| 12:46.27 | kerio | i think it's a mix of bad range on the n900 *and* the headphones |
| 12:46.57 | luf | That's for sure true :D You didn't miss any option ... |
| 12:47.13 | kerio | to be fair the range on the n900's bt is fairly awful |
| 12:49.49 | luf | I have no problem in car ... even in the back part (for baggage). |
| 12:50.05 | luf | What's awful for you? |
| 12:55.05 | luf | kerio: can you next time you'll meet the bug with disconnected x icon and status connected try to run hcitool to see what BT is thinking? I need to know if it's a problem of bluez or just AIS or whatever ... |
| 12:57.59 | kerio | k |
| 12:59.07 | luf | kerio: have you started working on icd plugin for bluez PANU client? :) |
| 12:59.29 | kerio | nope |
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| 13:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: most likely BT-TXlevel is fixed |
| 13:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: my N900 connects to sony headset even when meters away, and range seems like going thru 2 walls from living room to kitchen |
| 13:33.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | (~ 8m) |
| 13:33.44 | kerio | maybe it's these headphones then |
| 13:34.26 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: also, A2DP is a lot more heavy than HSP/HFP |
| 13:34.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't have N900 alu case, it probably is the headset, yes |
| 13:35.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm talking about listening to music, so A2DP |
| 13:35.10 | kerio | i have a plastic case, it shouldn't affect radio |
| 13:35.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on the plastic |
| 13:44.27 | luf | DocScrutinizer05: do you mean some alu plactic? |
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| 14:21.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | luf: nope |
| 14:22.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN is known to not work nicely when some quite common case-plastic is too close to antenna, it gets detuned |
| 14:22.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | BT has same freq |
| 14:22.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | even shares same antenna |
| 14:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | on some devices |
| 14:23.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | normal windowglass is known to give GPS a -6 to -18dB |
| 14:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pastic isn't any different in that regard, depending on the particular material and thickness |
| 14:24.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | plastic* |
| 14:25.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | the funny example to figure: PIR motion detectors don't work thru window glass at all |
| 14:25.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite counter-intuitive |
| 14:26.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | something being transparent or non-conductive doesn't mean it's negligible for RF |
| 14:28.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i remember my range sucking even before i had the otterbox, though |
| 14:29.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: a lot of 'egoistic' WLAN AP in the neighborhood may spoil BT as well |
| 14:30.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | mind you, they share same frequency |
| 14:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | even your own AP might suffice to give BT a hard living |
| 14:30.55 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, i should try when i'm at my countryside house |
| 14:31.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | good plan |
| 14:32.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | there've been several reports that streaming media from internet via WLAN to N900 to BT headset doesn't work at all, since WLAN and BT have to 'co-exist' andthat can't work when both have to do a 100% job |
| 14:41.16 | jon_y | isn't wifi and bt spread spectrum? |
| 14:42.56 | jon_y | as long as it isn't too crowded, it should work regardless of frequency overlap |
| 14:52.31 | kerio | starts counting the visible wifi APs |
| 14:53.21 | kerio | 20 plus hidden |
| 14:53.27 | kerio | so yeah |
| 14:55.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: BT is freq hopping afaik |
| 14:56.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN isn't exactly spread spectrum |
| 14:57.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | but if a sufficient number of WLAN AP mess up each channel available for BT to hop on, BT can't work properly |
| 14:58.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | WLAN rather is TDMA, leaving open timeslots between pkgs sent |
| 14:59.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | if several WLAN AP use same freq (which is chan +/- 2, due to sidebands), then it becomes more and more unlikely that BT finds such an open timeslot in that range of BT channels |
| 15:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book WLAN is already zombie state in real life, due to absolute overload / crowding of RF band |
| 15:03.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and every luser and his dog ramp up both bandwidth used (by N etc), as well as TX power to shout down the neighbor |
| 15:04.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | since none of those lusers gets the catch that a proper cable is a million times better than crappy WLAN for connecting their PC to the router 30cm away |
| 15:05.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | waits for frist DSL-routermodem to come with WLAN only, no more ethernet ports at all |
| 15:08.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | thne they bitch about their crappy DSL connections while they don't realize it's actually the WLAN that doesn't go beyond 1 or 2 MBit, due to them themselves and all their neighbors basically 'abusing' WLAN for a cable replacement for distances of 2m between stationary devices |
| 15:09.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that |
| 15:09.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | 's where BT has to stand a living |
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| 15:14.13 | kerio | poor bt :( |
| 15:27.10 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: did you try the new testing already? |
| 15:35.53 | merlin1991 | who else in here tried the pre release -testing? |
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| 16:23.02 | vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: I have a solution. |
| 16:23.23 | vi__ | I have a 5dB gain enternal aerial to my AP. |
| 16:23.28 | vi__ | It works. |
| 16:23.50 | vi__ | So I going to replace it with 3 9dB antennas. |
| 16:24.04 | vi__ | There are no free channels near my home. |
| 16:24.42 | vi__ | If you cannot beat them...DESTROY THEM WITH POWER. |
| 16:45.18 | kerio | vi__: still won't work |
| 16:45.50 | kerio | you can't magically put bigger antennas and expect your wifi network to work better |
| 16:46.24 | kerio | it's still going to be crowded as fuck |
| 16:57.44 | vi__ | Yes, but if everyone else gets really shitty service, they might fuck off my channel. |
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| 19:20.56 | tadzik | is it advised to optify package which consists of a single 148K binary + manpages? |
| 19:22.33 | Pali | yes |
| 19:22.51 | tadzik | okay |
| 19:23.22 | Pali | btw, autobuillder doing optification if debian/optify file has auto |
| 19:24.06 | tadzik | that's the first time I hear about autobuilder |
| 19:24.11 | tadzik | is that something garage-related? |
| 19:27.57 | Pali | it is builder for extrad-devel |
| 19:28.02 | Pali | but now not working |
| 19:28.18 | Pali | (also maemo wiki not working) |
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| 19:43.15 | Pali | merlin1991, freemangordon, can you test new battery applet? |
| 19:45.48 | Pali | and next question: What about creating new fiasco rootfs image with pr1.3.1 + cssu-stable and without some preinstalled apps (cheery, ...) |
| 19:59.40 | tadzik | what package is responsible for the behaviour of a longpress in, for example, file manager? |
| 20:03.42 | kerio | Pali: it's going to be tough to do |
| 20:04.01 | kerio | Pali: but go right ahead :3 |
| 20:05.57 | kerio | Pali: the ubifs image is going to be a bitch to work with |
| 20:06.17 | Pali | kerio, I can generate ubifs image, no problem |
| 20:06.24 | Pali | and I can also unpack and edit it |
| 20:06.37 | kerio | Pali: cool |
| 20:06.52 | kerio | i doubt the scripts will run nicely in a chroot jail |
| 20:06.57 | kerio | but you could do the things they do manually |
| 20:07.13 | kerio | i mean things like HAM |
| 20:07.16 | Pali | and I have patches for block2mtd.ko driver which creating mtd device from block |
| 20:07.31 | Pali | which allows me to mount ubifs image on computer without nandsim |
| 20:07.31 | kerio | you'd have to run ICD at the very least for HAM to work |
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| 21:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: sorry, not yet |
| 21:09.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I could install it on a fresh device, I'd not be able to find the time to test it at all, since I'm a tad ill (flu) |
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| 21:10.13 | tadzik | who can I ask questions related to hildon codebase? |
| 21:15.20 | wmarone | probably best to just ask |
| 21:16.02 | tadzik | that got no response :) |
| 21:16.07 | tadzik | what package is responsible for the behaviour of a longpress in, for example, file manager? |
| 21:16.14 | tadzik | I believe that's just the context menu |
| 21:16.52 | merlin1991 | tadzik: arcean knows best, but he's currently not here |
| 21:17.22 | tadzik | I'll look around for him, thanks |
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| 23:30.35 | FIQ | ok so I have a strange problem with CSSU installation, HAM first load something, then seems to do nothing. Then after a while, it simply said "Process failed" (might not be exact wording due to localized msg) and there's no icon |
| 23:31.44 | FIQ | I had a very similar issue last time I installed cssu (pretty much first thing I did that time, so no devel unless backupmenu required it, which I've forgot), but then there was an icon |
| 23:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: I think you're asking for mime-types |
| 23:33.54 | FIQ | While CSSU seemed to install fine then, any install afterwards of anything reissued the "Please accept these TOU" of cssu-install |
| 23:33.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | tadzik: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mime_Types#Using_hildon-mime-open |
| 23:34.54 | FIQ | so basically both of my cssu installations has failed strangely, and both that time and now, it's pretty much clean rootfs |
| 23:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: that for sure needs investigation. Please wait til the knowledgeable people respond |
| 23:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly merlin1991 (and mohammadAG) might want to have a look. |
| 23:38.40 | FIQ | I have used apt to install a few packages from extras+extras-devel (the following: bash xchat vgb gpspmgui coreutils-gnu findutils-gnu mlocate unzip) and some from HAM (backupmenu, openssh server+client) and I've changed default to /bin/bash. That's basically everything from factory state to now (might have forgot something, but nothing major) |
| 23:39.03 | FIQ | s/default/default shell/ |
| 23:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh lol, changed default shell |
| 23:39.43 | merlin1991 | FIQ: the cssu enabler mechanism runs a script that was never tested under bash |
| 23:39.52 | FIQ | ohhh |
| 23:40.04 | FIQ | so making /bin/sh default should work? |
| 23:40.13 | FIQ | or has things broken already? |
| 23:40.25 | merlin1991 | yeah, though I have nfc in what state you are now thanks to the broken install |
| 23:40.38 | FIQ | hm |
| 23:40.49 | FIQ | merlin1991: that can explain *this* fail |
| 23:41.01 | FIQ | but not the previous one, which gave strange problems too |
| 23:41.18 | FIQ | and then everything I did was installing backupmenu and making a backup |
| 23:41.29 | FIQ | (from factory state, that is) |
| 23:42.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it seems nobody can reproduce this, so far |
| 23:42.16 | FIQ | ok |
| 23:42.24 | FIQ | I'll try to switch shell and try again |
| 23:42.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you actually can reproduce failure to install CSSU on a factory image ülus BM, we got a new problem |
| 23:42.45 | merlin1991 | FIQ: did you get as far as runing the enabler script from the app menu? |
| 23:42.57 | FIQ | merlin1991: no |
| 23:43.05 | FIQ | i got to step 5 on wiki |
| 23:43.39 | FIQ | i.e. adding repo (I think), wait to HAM to do something |
| 23:43.42 | merlin1991 | FIQ: ok time to get some info |
| 23:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | indly wonders if CSSU repo is broken now too |
| 23:44.08 | merlin1991 | please pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list |
| 23:44.35 | merlin1991 | also the output of dpkg -l community-ssu-enabler |
| 23:45.28 | FIQ | not found |
| 23:45.36 | merlin1991 | the package or the file? |
| 23:46.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | or pastebin? |
| 23:46.02 | FIQ | http://pastebin.com/6caU7zZx is the sources list |
| 23:46.11 | FIQ | merlin1991: the package |
| 23:46.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | community-ssu-enabler not installed |
| 23:46.40 | merlin1991 | FIQ: ok then you basically only added the repo but did nothing else |
| 23:47.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | for some reason HAM blew chunks on installing enabler |
| 23:47.31 | FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: no, No packages found matching community-ssu-enabler. |
| 23:47.32 | merlin1991 | well change your shell back to /bin/sh and try again |
| 23:47.40 | FIQ | merlin1991: ok |
| 23:47.52 | merlin1991 | so far nothing happened to you system cssu wise :) |
| 23:47.58 | FIQ | ok :å |
| 23:48.56 | FIQ | s/å/p/ |
| 23:49.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>HAM first load something, then seems to do nothing. Then after a while, it simply said "Process failed" (might not be exact wording due to localized msg) and there's no icon<< conclusive |
| 23:49.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | might even be connection to repo |
| 23:50.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM log... |
| 23:50.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | or "out of memory"? |
| 23:50.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth... |
| 23:50.56 | FIQ | ehm |
| 23:51.03 | FIQ | i'm very skeptical to OOM |
| 23:51.14 | FIQ | connection could be the issue |
| 23:51.31 | FIQ | also how are you supposed to know when HAM is done? |
| 23:51.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are weird checks for available free storage in original HAM |
| 23:51.47 | FIQ | it just sits there, but wiki says that's supposed to happen |
| 23:52.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that might actually be a bit unfortunate with HAM |
| 23:53.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically as soon as you can do a new operation in HAM it's supposed to be finished so much that you can close it |
| 23:53.27 | merlin1991 | FIQ: yeah you can run top in a terminal |
| 23:53.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
| 23:53.40 | merlin1991 | as long as there is an apt-worker process eating your cpu ham is working :) |
| 23:53.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-worker keeps working even when you close HAM |
| 23:54.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no problem there |
| 23:54.21 | FIQ | good to know |
| 23:54.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | (unless our new brilliant HAM kills apt-worker) |
| 23:55.15 | FIQ | also what happens if you attempt to start the process again? |
| 23:55.33 | FIQ | when it's started, that is |
| 23:56.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | since it just installs cssu-enabler, there shouldn't be much harm |
| 23:56.36 | FIQ | because IIRC I did that when I tried to install cssu the first time because it stalled |
| 23:56.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | usual disclaimer: aiui |
| 23:57.30 | FIQ | as I didn't realize it was normal behaviour for HAM to do apparently nothing but in fact do something |
| 23:58.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: could we add a notifier to cssu-enabler post-install? |
| 23:59.58 | FIQ | how long should the process take? |