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| 09:41.58 | freemangordon | Pali: your formula to calculate the voltage in rx51_battery is U=(10000*Uraw)/1705 |
| 09:42.23 | freemangordon | or simila, but that should do the job too |
| 09:42.35 | freemangordon | merlin1991: would you delete clutter from the repo |
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| 09:48.43 | Pali | freemangordon, ok |
| 09:49.15 | Pali | freemangordon, what is state of 720p video playback? |
| 09:49.44 | Pali | is your patched gstdsp from maemo6 branch working also without new dsp codecs? |
| 09:50.01 | freemangordon | Pali: no change, though I have to release a slightly new version of gstdsp |
| 09:50.18 | freemangordon | Pali: it has been wotking for an year or so |
| 09:50.29 | Pali | ok |
| 09:50.31 | freemangordon | Pali: aah, sorry |
| 09:50.44 | freemangordon | no, i does not work iirc |
| 09:51.11 | Pali | so 720p video playback needs: kernel-feature-720p, new gst-dsp, ti dsp baseimage & codecs, right? |
| 09:51.13 | freemangordon | actually it depends on how it is built |
| 09:51.30 | freemangordon | Pali: yep |
| 09:51.44 | freemangordon | and removal of openmax codecs |
| 09:51.55 | kerio | what does that entail? |
| 09:52.02 | kerio | (the uninstallation of openmax) |
| 09:52.11 | Pali | I will create one deb package which will have all these binaries |
| 09:52.15 | freemangordon | it allows gstreamer to use gst-dsp |
| 09:52.32 | freemangordon | Pali: don't put gst-dsp in it |
| 09:52.44 | kerio | wait, so gst-dsp is an openmax replacement? |
| 09:52.45 | Pali | I think nobody care about publishing nokia ti codecs |
| 09:52.48 | kerio | doesn't get it |
| 09:52.59 | Pali | freemangoron, why not put gst-dsp? |
| 09:53.04 | freemangordon | it has its own packaging. and I was in a aprocess of creating gst-dsp version which works with both stock and harmattan codecs |
| 09:53.42 | Pali | problem with uninstalling openmax could be solved that deb package will move or dpkg-divert that openmax library |
| 09:53.47 | freemangordon | didn't finished it, but still, I was planning to return to gst-dsp once new -thumb is out |
| 09:53.54 | Pali | freemangordon, ok |
| 09:54.07 | kerio | Pali: hmm, can .install files tell HAM to remove a certain package? |
| 09:54.21 | freemangordon | Pali: we should provide openmax replacement |
| 09:54.32 | Pali | freemangordon, it is possible to have installed both old maemo and new harmattan TI codecs? |
| 09:54.57 | Pali | e.g when you will boot non 720p kernel, it will fallback to normal... |
| 09:55.25 | freemangordon | Pali: hmm, not sure |
| 09:55.38 | Pali | freemangorodon, openmax replacement - do you mean to fix openmax library or create dummy package? |
| 09:56.01 | freemangordon | as I don't know whether /lib/dsp is not hardcoded |
| 09:56.07 | freemangordon | dummy |
| 09:56.19 | Pali | ok, dummy empty package |
| 09:56.22 | freemangordon | the fix is in a different component |
| 09:56.30 | freemangordon | JPEG codec |
| 09:57.09 | Pali | nokia released new version of TI dsp codecs, on tmo post is still used old |
| 09:57.11 | freemangordon | Pali: lemme finish with thumb stuff, i'll be back to 720p |
| 09:57.16 | Pali | new version not working? |
| 09:57.16 | Pali | ok |
| 09:57.33 | freemangordon | Pali: iirc the newer version is worse |
| 09:57.44 | Pali | ok |
| 09:57.51 | freemangordon | Pali: in the meanwhile you may want to merge pselect() patch |
| 09:58.05 | Pali | already in kp git tree |
| 09:58.25 | freemangordon | and rename kernel-cssu to kernel ;) |
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| 09:58.51 | freemangordon | Pali: BTW did you pass your exams? |
| 09:59.01 | Pali | not all yet |
| 09:59.19 | Pali | but calculus and graph therory yes :-) |
| 09:59.27 | freemangordon | great |
| 09:59.54 | Pali | implicit function theorem :D |
| 10:00.34 | freemangordon | whatever it is :D:D:D |
| 10:01.22 | Pali | do not ask, what it is :-) |
| 10:01.35 | freemangordon | i won't :) |
| 10:02.06 | freemangordon | is out of cigarretes, is going to bye some |
| 10:11.13 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ping |
| 10:30.25 | kerio | freemangordon: the basis of algebraic geometry |
| 10:30.30 | kerio | and also a really, really ugly theorem |
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| 10:38.23 | fw190 | freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both? |
| 10:41.19 | kerio | fw190: you should wait |
| 10:41.54 | kerio | are you on the current thumb? if so, you just flat-out can't do anything until fmg fixes a couple of things |
| 10:41.59 | kerio | er, sorry |
| 10:42.01 | kerio | are you on the current testing? |
| 10:43.09 | kerio | in fact, i'd disable the thumb repo before you install anything from it |
| 10:43.20 | kerio | it's in a weird state right now |
| 10:45.32 | fw190 | kerio: hi, I'm on latest T. thumb not installed |
| 10:45.55 | kerio | then you can't install thumb right now |
| 10:46.03 | kerio | fmg is working on the appropriate thumb release |
| 10:46.07 | kerio | the one that matches the testing one |
| 10:46.12 | fw190 | ok |
| 10:46.17 | kerio | have you installed anything from the thumb repo' |
| 10:46.17 | kerio | ? |
| 10:46.42 | fw190 | but when it is out should I turn off T repo and turn on thumb repo or have both |
| 10:47.02 | fw190 | my phone is fresh after reflash so nothing with thumb |
| 10:47.19 | kerio | you should follow the instructions on the TMO post :P |
| 10:47.32 | kerio | but no, community-thumb is a repo that works in addition to community-testing |
| 10:48.01 | fw190 | true. I did it lat time but my questions came with the new repos added automaticallt |
| 10:48.06 | kerio | and cssu-th works by recompiling the cssu-testing packages and giving them a version that puts them just slightly ahead of their non-thumb counterpart |
| 10:50.03 | kerio | fw190: the .install file adds the community-testing and community-thumb repos |
| 10:50.07 | kerio | those should be kept enabled |
| 10:50.18 | fw190 | thanks for the tips. got to go by |
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| 11:12.55 | Pali | hald-addon-bme now working fine, it also handle unloading driver bq2415x_charger |
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| 11:40.00 | freemangordon | Pali: great |
| 11:40.03 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ping |
| 11:40.10 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: pong |
| 11:40.26 | freemangordon | merlin1991: could you clear clutter and gtk from the repo? |
| 11:40.51 | merlin1991 | on my way :) |
| 11:40.56 | freemangordon | ok :) |
| 11:42.52 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: done |
| 11:43.06 | freemangordon | 10x |
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| 12:03.42 | kerio | Pali: hm, why would one unload that module? |
| 12:13.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait!! dafaq! indeed there's thumb repo on everybody now??? |
| 12:13.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | is not happy about that |
| 12:13.32 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what? |
| 12:13.42 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: disabled by default |
| 12:13.42 | freemangordon | why? |
| 12:13.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | my cssu-t has thumb repo now |
| 12:13.58 | freemangordon | aah, disabled, ok |
| 12:14.25 | kerio | wat? |
| 12:14.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | invitation to mess up stuff for everybody, see above |
| 12:14.40 | kerio | merlin1991, freemangordon: oh you |
| 12:14.52 | merlin1991 | kerio: actually Pali did that ;) |
| 12:14.57 | kerio | Pali: oh you |
| 12:14.57 | freemangordon | kerio: naah, not me :P |
| 12:15.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart Pali |
| 12:15.01 | infobot | beats Pali over the head with a microkernel |
| 12:15.08 | kerio | it's the new community-ssu-enabler? |
| 12:15.16 | merlin1991 | kerio: yes |
| 12:15.27 | kerio | luckily i don't have it =D |
| 12:15.38 | Pali | kerio, before some commited patched, hald-addon-bme freezed when /sys/class/power_suppy/bqsomething was dissappeared |
| 12:15.52 | kerio | oh, i see |
| 12:15.53 | Pali | and eat 100% of CPU |
| 12:15.53 | freemangordon | luckily you will have it today or tomorrow |
| 12:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I get tired to fire [general notices] |
| 12:16.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yet... |
| 12:17.03 | Pali | new cssu-enabler has all cssu repositories in system |
| 12:17.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] do **NOT** enable cssu-thumb catalog in HAM unless you **lknow* what you're doing!! |
| 12:17.10 | kerio | grabs the popcorn |
| 12:17.29 | Pali | only those are enabled which was enabled before installing cssu-enabler |
| 12:17.41 | freemangordon | makes sense |
| 12:17.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's sane how? |
| 12:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq! |
| 12:18.06 | kerio | Pali: are they installed with the proper domain? |
| 12:18.07 | freemangordon | you can easily enable -devel anf -thumb repos if you're brave |
| 12:18.09 | Pali | e.g when you click on CSSU install icon on wiki page, it enable stable or testing repo (depnds on click) and then install enabler |
| 12:18.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?[2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both? |
| 12:19.00 | Pali | deb postinst script will see which repos was enabled, remove old repos and install new domain into system (+ enable enabled repos) |
| 12:19.36 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I was not aware of the change, will update thumb thread on TMO as soon as I am ready with the new update |
| 12:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~spank pali |
| 12:19.56 | infobot | ACTION bends pali over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on pali's pasty white buttocks. |
| 12:20.37 | merlin1991 | Pali: we should make the domain stuff into seperate packages (stable thum testing devel) and jsut have the enabler depend on 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
| 12:23.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | which other new catalogs are sneaked in to user's catalog setup? |
| 12:23.57 | merlin1991 | stable and -devel |
| 12:24.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | WHICH -devel?? |
| 12:24.20 | merlin1991 | cssu :D |
| 12:24.27 | kerio | :D |
| 12:24.31 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 12:24.37 | kerio | grabs more popcorn |
| 12:24.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart merlin1991 for offense against non-ambiguity law |
| 12:24.45 | infobot | sends a legion of lawyers after merlin1991's head for offense against non-ambiguity law |
| 12:25.21 | kerio | Pali: is there a way to add the correct domain info without actually adding the repo? |
| 12:25.52 | freemangordon | merlin1991: would you delete hildonfm2, tinymail, modest |
| 12:27.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | sneezes and swears and curses maemo.org |
| 12:27.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | FUUUUUCK |
| 12:27.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | w.mo.o stalls after loading 50% of page |
| 12:28.18 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: done |
| 12:28.24 | freemangordon | 10x |
| 12:28.41 | kerio | freemangordon: to be sure - libgtk2.0-0, libgtk2.0-bin and libgtk2.0-common, right? |
| 12:28.52 | freemangordon | yep |
| 12:29.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | gets *really* grumpy |
| 12:29.22 | kerio | heh, dpkg is spewing warnings about package downgrades |
| 12:29.35 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 12:30.34 | kerio | the gtk version is actually the same, right? |
| 12:30.41 | kerio | i cba to reboot |
| 12:30.48 | freemangordon | yep, recompiled with 4.7.2 |
| 12:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | searches something to kick and beat a bit |
| 12:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | luckily I have no pets |
| 12:34.53 | kerio | you have lots of n900s |
| 12:35.26 | Pali | kerio, yes you can add domain info (name, gpg key) without repository info (name, url, ...) |
| 12:35.40 | freemangordon | anyone willing to make a .dep providing kernel-feature-errata-workaround? so -thumb repo to be usable in SB. |
| 12:36.03 | kerio | Pali: yeah but does the new repo work as intended if you add it later, manually? |
| 12:36.15 | Pali | yes |
| 12:36.17 | kerio | or does it count as a custom repo? |
| 12:36.17 | kerio | neat |
| 12:36.30 | Pali | domains is in other files |
| 12:36.45 | Pali | repository (catalogues) are separate files |
| 12:36.57 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: that's easy :D |
| 12:37.13 | kerio | then maybe the repos shouldn't've been added? |
| 12:37.21 | Pali | in catalogue file you specify, domain id, human name, deb url, enabled/disabled by default... |
| 12:37.36 | Pali | and in domain file you specify: domain id and gpg keys |
| 12:37.52 | Pali | and trust level |
| 12:38.47 | Pali | community repositories have higher trust level as nokias, so we can update system packages |
| 12:38.59 | freemangordon | merlin1991: yes, i know :) |
| 12:39.56 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, this change comes from commit 2012-06-28 00:47:06... |
| 12:40.22 | kerio | Pali: yeah but does manually adding the repo work, afterwards? |
| 12:40.45 | kerio | can you specify the domain id from a .install file? |
| 12:40.53 | Pali | I do not know |
| 12:41.03 | Pali | maybe not |
| 12:41.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair adding the repos, disabled by default, sounds like the only sensible option |
| 12:41.38 | Pali | so If you install cssu stable, you will not be enable to update to cssu devel without hacks again |
| 12:41.51 | Pali | because HAM disable updating cssu-enabler package |
| 12:42.03 | Pali | which comes from "trusted" repository |
| 12:42.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | DAFAQ |
| 12:44.29 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: HAM is weird as fuck |
| 12:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, cssu devels are weird as fuck |
| 12:44.49 | kerio | Pali: can't we just enable the HAM hidden settings that enable domain transfers without bitching? |
| 12:45.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | you DARE messing with my catalog settings? for no good reason?? |
| 12:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm NOT amused |
| 12:46.30 | kerio | [ ] Ignore packages from wrong domains [X] Ignore the third party packages policy for SSU |
| 12:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Why The Fuck would I want cssu-thumb repo in my catalog list????????????????????????? |
| 12:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | if i'd want it, don't you think I'd be well capable to add it in HAM? or at *very least* be able to click a fucking .install file? |
| 12:48.55 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: simply no |
| 12:49.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not really, it needs to be in the correct domain in HAM |
| 12:49.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh? Thanks!!! For whatever that "no2 means |
| 12:49.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-(( |
| 12:49.35 | kerio | HAM doesn't allow you to add a repo as a system repo |
| 12:49.44 | kerio | you need to do that by modifying the domain and catalog list |
| 12:49.52 | kerio | they're xml files |
| 12:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | so WHAT?? |
| 12:50.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | does that mean you messed it up and now you found a way to deal with that? |
| 12:51.08 | Pali | if you want to update system packages from repo R, R must be trusted in system |
| 12:51.17 | Pali | install files cannot add trusted repositories |
| 12:51.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | again |
| 12:51.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | Why The Fuck would I want cssu-thumb repo in my catalog list????????????????????????? |
| 12:51.50 | kerio | because it's one of the catalogues that your HAM trusts |
| 12:52.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOOO SIR! |
| 12:52.05 | kerio | yep |
| 12:52.26 | merlin1991 | it's disabled, it has no effect, it's like an installed pub key you trust |
| 12:52.27 | merlin1991 | fs |
| 12:52.30 | merlin1991 | s/f/ff/ |
| 12:52.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I have to say I'm sorry I have to kill HAM and the one who sneaked it into my system, cause *I* *DONT* trust cssu-thumb |
| 12:53.26 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure if tolling or whatever, but it is *DISABLED* IT WILL NOT FUCKING TOUCH YOUR SYSTEM UNLESS YOU STUPIDLY ENABLE IT YOURSELF |
| 12:53.41 | kerio | *trolling |
| 12:53.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR |
| 12:53.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-15 14:18:31] <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?[2012-09-15 12:38:23] |
| 12:54.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and NO I DON'T WANT THAT REPO, even disabled I DONT WANT IT!!! |
| 12:54.33 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hm, is it removable? |
| 12:54.34 | freemangordon | then delete it |
| 12:54.42 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: it isn#t deleteable |
| 12:54.44 | merlin1991 | thanks to trust level |
| 12:54.46 | merlin1991 | also |
| 12:54.51 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 12:54.54 | merlin1991 | suggests to let go of the caps key |
| 12:55.57 | kerio | hmm, why do we need the trusted/nontrusted separation again? |
| 12:56.56 | kerio | (freemangordon: "modest" downgraded, "libtinymail*" and "libhildonfm2" upgraded) |
| 12:57.21 | freemangordon | kerio: do you keet the complete list? |
| 12:57.25 | freemangordon | *keep |
| 12:57.37 | kerio | freemangordon: well, this channel is logged :) |
| 12:57.50 | kerio | freemangordon: anyway, your new modest is outdated |
| 12:58.08 | kerio | the current modest in testing is 3.90.7-11.2, you're pushing the same as the old thumb one, 3.90.7-11.1 |
| 12:58.28 | freemangordon | kerio: hmm, my bad the |
| 12:58.31 | freemangordon | *then |
| 12:58.38 | freemangordon | I will waise the version |
| 12:58.44 | freemangordon | fuck :D |
| 12:58.46 | freemangordon | *raise |
| 12:58.48 | kerio | freemangordon: well, maybe there's actually an update? |
| 12:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no fucking sane reason whatsoever to ship cssu-thumb repo with cssu-t upgrade. NONE. If cssu-thumb needs some special quirks to enable the repo in HAM then I suggest you ship that with cssu-thumb, NOT with cssu-t |
| 12:59.33 | kerio | freemangordon: yep, modest and tinymail are updated in the latest cssu-testing |
| 12:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | but again, fine!! damage done |
| 12:59.57 | freemangordon | kerio: I think there is only a version raised, but still |
| 13:00.13 | kerio | modest Enabled horizontal scrolling in settings dialog. |
| 13:00.21 | freemangordon | ok, ok |
| 13:00.22 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: modest has a fix fo... kerio was faster |
| 13:00.25 | kerio | tinymail Fixed invalid/NULL pointer in get_folder_status, prevent heap corruption in list. |
| 13:00.33 | freemangordon | that's me ;) |
| 13:00.48 | freemangordon | i know that fix, it is already int -thumb |
| 13:01.11 | kerio | oh ok, then just match the versions |
| 13:01.16 | freemangordon | yep |
| 13:01.20 | kerio | but if you have to recompile again, get the same sources |
| 13:01.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | MEH, I'm pondering to declare CSSU as having entered fsckedup state again, as it last did around some 16 months or so ago, and just roll back and leave it that way |
| 13:01.57 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: a lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible |
| 13:02.10 | merlin1991 | kerio: nah we can ship a new enabler update |
| 13:02.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://www.alessonislearned.com/ it's a really nice webcomic :) |
| 13:09.31 | freemangordon | kerio: new modest is there |
| 13:12.54 | kerio | freemangordon: are you sure all the changes are there? |
| 13:13.10 | freemangordon | i did git merge master |
| 13:13.18 | kerio | k |
| 13:13.57 | kerio | freemangordon: libtinymail has the same problem |
| 13:15.03 | freemangordon | merlin1991: wuould you push your local changes to tinymail :P |
| 13:15.28 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: ah yeah I'll don in a minute |
| 13:18.25 | merlin1991 | pushed |
| 13:21.12 | kerio | merlin1991: right now, is there something in community-devel that's not in community-testing? |
| 13:21.32 | merlin1991 | kerio: that was about git not the repos |
| 13:21.40 | kerio | no, my question is unrelated |
| 13:21.54 | merlin1991 | possibly, I don't control community-devel |
| 13:23.47 | kerio | merlin1991: ok, there's nothing that i have installed |
| 13:25.22 | freemangordon | it there a way to tell apt-get to ignore dependencies? |
| 13:26.37 | merlin1991 | you can tell dpkg but apt-get is foobar after that |
| 13:26.50 | kerio | merlin1991: no it's not |
| 13:26.58 | kerio | it just complains a whole lot |
| 13:27.00 | kerio | :) |
| 13:27.01 | freemangordon | well, what is the easiest way to create a empty package then :D |
| 13:28.08 | merlin1991 | mkdir myawesomefaker-0.1 && cd myawesomefaker-0.1 && dh_make && vi debian/control && dgpk-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc |
| 13:28.27 | freemangordon | thanks |
| 13:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes it is! apt will *only* complain and refuse to do anything else. That's my definition of fubar |
| 13:36.52 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: fubar means fucked up beyond all repair |
| 13:37.06 | kerio | "apt-get install -f" is meant to repair |
| 13:37.12 | kerio | clearly, it's not beyond repair |
| 13:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | it doesn't repair, though |
| 13:37.58 | kerio | it tries, at least |
| 13:39.30 | kerio | -f, --fix-broken attempt to correct a system with broken dependencies in place |
| 13:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I suggest you care about cssu from now on, your rationale and mindset seems just appropriate |
| 13:40.02 | kerio | not sure if serious... |
| 13:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | waits for kerio suggesting to rename cssu-testing to cssu-tried |
| 13:42.22 | kerio | or maybe cssu-tested |
| 13:42.30 | kerio | it's much more encouraging |
| 13:42.49 | kerio | we should have cssu-tested, cssu-testing and cssu-notyettested |
| 13:43.19 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 13:45.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously cssu-t is cssu-notatalltestedyet |
| 13:45.57 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair you're the one complaining hard about something in cssu-*testing* |
| 13:46.20 | kerio | i mean, it's fixable |
| 13:46.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | to be fair I'll let you know that your rationale makes me spit my coffee over my keyboard |
| 13:47.13 | kerio | is it one of those crappy flexible plastic keyboard? |
| 13:47.45 | kerio | because if not, i suggest you immediately detach it and wash it under purified water |
| 13:50.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: if you haven't noticed yet, I'm severely pissed by you and others here obviously suggesting to throw unreviewed untested even undiscussed changes into cssu-testing to see what happens, then wait for complaints coming in and ponder if you care at all and eventually fix some of the stuff. And thus you might imagine how much I care about your suggestions |
| 13:50.59 | kerio | i suggested jack shit |
| 13:51.13 | kerio | if i had to suggest, i would've suggested cssu-devel as a ground for that |
| 13:51.27 | kerio | and afaik community-ssu-enabler was updated there first |
| 13:52.27 | kerio | either nobody tested it, or nobody thought it was a problem |
| 13:53.39 | freemangordon | merlin1991: qt-mobility needs to be purged |
| 13:53.50 | freemangordon | kerio: new tinymail uploadad |
| 13:54.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: where was *your* testing? |
| 13:54.14 | kerio | you have 5 n900s, right? |
| 13:55.17 | merlin1991 | removed |
| 13:55.32 | freemangordon | 10x |
| 13:55.52 | freemangordon | the fuch, lots of packages reamining to be build :( |
| 13:56.07 | freemangordon | I don;t think i will make it today |
| 13:57.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: no sir, you're not going to accuse me for not taking care about testing stuff. Please go take your shit elsewhere. If Pali introduces changes without even discussing them here, I'm not going to hunt for those changes to spot them and test them |
| 13:58.03 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I wrote more times about these changes |
| 13:58.42 | Pali | also see commit date |
| 13:59.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | please pont me to the quote where you said "cssu-t catalog list will include amndatory cssu-thumb repo now" |
| 13:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | MEH |
| 14:00.01 | kerio | has no greppable logs |
| 14:01.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and this is where the process of "devs get some testers for themselves and then report back" for "critical" packages |
| 14:02.20 | kerio | *fails |
| 14:03.53 | freemangordon | merlin1991: libxml too |
| 14:04.29 | freemangordon | kerio: would you test libxml for me(once it is uploaded) |
| 14:04.51 | gregoa | freemangordon: you can use equivs for creating empty packages |
| 14:05.08 | kerio | freemangordon: how? |
| 14:05.35 | freemangordon | kerio: install it and reboot, if nothing is broken then test passed :D. |
| 14:05.44 | freemangordon | gregoa: thanks |
| 14:05.45 | kerio | perfect |
| 14:05.55 | freemangordon | kerio: it is just a version change |
| 14:06.15 | freemangordon | from - to + |
| 14:07.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i don't even know, does CSSU have a "process"? |
| 14:07.48 | freemangordon | merlin1991: libcurl too |
| 14:08.47 | merlin1991 | done |
| 14:18.35 | kerio | freemangordon: downgradan' |
| 14:27.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: the process been (in good old times when that worked and everybody in here understood) ## a) devel/maintainer creates a patched or new package, comes here (and maybe to ML) to introduce and explain it in all its aspects, discuss the concept and architecture and possible problems or improvements it might need ## b) maintainer tests on his own device against standard install of system the pkg is meant for, and usually keeps the |
| 14:27.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | inner circle public updated about his progress, changes to concept, and thoughts/plans ## c) maintainer publishes his work either via own private repo or via tarball on tmo, and finds some (usually at least 6) testers either in tmo or here that do b) in their domain for him ## d) maintainer collects feedback (maybe goes back to a) when something turned out to need more work) and comes here to present his testing process results to |
| 14:27.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-* maintainers, on which occasion the cssu-maintainers plus other persons with merit decide by acclamation if the pkg is fit for inclusion to testing (implies that the pkg is considered free of known bugs and *completely* tested by pkg maintainer and the half dozen testers) |
| 14:28.00 | *** join/#maemo-ssu nzerox (~rrajaratn@5ac213e5.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:28.25 | nzerox | hey guys, i have ssu-stable installed, is it possible to update to testing? |
| 14:28.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | lately we got cssu-devel as an alternative to tarball on tmo and private repo, in c) |
| 14:29.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | except cssu-thumb which is fmg's own playground and similar to cssu-devel |
| 14:29.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: was it this you asked for? |
| 14:30.23 | merlin1991 | nzerox: yes, you have to add the -testing repo to ham and update |
| 14:30.48 | freemangordon | merlin1991: microb-engine and xserver are (hopefully) the last packages that need cleanup |
| 14:30.58 | nzerox | merlin1991: will the testing and stable conflict, or will stable be removed? |
| 14:31.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | nzerox: cssu-stable is a subset of cssu-testing |
| 14:31.52 | merlin1991 | done |
| 14:32.26 | nzerox | merlin1991: cool, so its as simple as going to the ssh sit and clicking the testing link |
| 14:32.44 | nzerox | merlin1991: thank you |
| 14:33.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | nzerox: so basically you may (dunno if "can", since last bright "improvement" to HAM/cssu-enabler) remove the cssu-stable repo when you add cssu-testing |
| 14:35.34 | nzerox | DocScrutinizer05: yeah i think i can turn of the catalog |
| 14:35.43 | nzerox | DocScrutinizer05: is that what you mean? |
| 14:35.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | nzerox: anyway do a proper BM backup prior to that upgrade, since it's the only feasible way to roll back from cssu-testing to cssu-stable. Just in case |
| 14:36.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I meant you can remove the catalog, you don't need it anymore |
| 14:37.49 | nzerox | i'm just playing around with it, i'll reflash if i have problems :) |
| 14:37.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you MUSTN'T enable cssu-thumb catalog, or your system will become prone to frequent segfaults unless you installed kernel with thumb-fix |
| 14:37.53 | nzerox | thanks guys |
| 14:38.23 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: stop talking bullshit, -thumb -mp installs the required kernel |
| 14:39.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha great, so you think enabling cssu-thumb will simply upgrade MP and pull in kernel? |
| 14:39.17 | freemangordon | exactly that will happen (once the new update is out) |
| 14:39.59 | freemangordon | that is a part of Depends: kernel-cssu-flasher ( = 1:2.6.28-10cssu3 ) | kernel-power-flasher ( >= 1:2.6.28-10power51r1 ) |
| 14:41.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see that happen the next few weeks, in any safe manner. Since installation of kernel is still a risky operation in my book, that has quite some potential to break stuff like uBoot, intentional powerkernel revisions kept for kernel, wtc |
| 14:41.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | etc* |
| 14:42.11 | freemangordon | while that *MIGHT* be true, it is a tottaly different beer from "<DocScrutinizer05> and you MUSTN'T enable cssu-thumb catalog, or your system will become prone to frequent segfaults unless you installed kernel with thumb-fix" |
| 14:43.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, I thought you said >>"...(once the new update is out)"<< |
| 14:43.57 | freemangordon | well, right now the repo is inconsistent so noone can install -thumb by using HAM fapman or whatever |
| 14:44.16 | freemangordon | will be ok in half an hour though |
| 14:44.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | starts to think this hasn't been an accidental fsckup, but rather a carefully crafted yet half-baked plot to pull users to thumb without even asking them |
| 14:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | since disabling cssu-thumb catalog will NOT roll back to clean cssu-testing |
| 14:46.42 | *** part/#maemo-ssu nzerox (~rrajaratn@5ac213e5.bb.sky.com) |
| 14:46.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both? |
| 14:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | other users might not even know wtf cssu-thumb *is* |
| 14:48.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: are you trying to put me in a position to prove my sister is not a whore? |
| 14:49.17 | freemangordon | I already told you I was not aware of that change |
| 14:49.32 | freemangordon | no matter if I like it or not |
| 14:49.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, my english lacks this phrase |
| 14:50.22 | freemangordon | well, it means " once it is believed your sister is a whore, go and prove you don't have a sister" |
| 14:50.40 | freemangordon | anyway |
| 14:51.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm just stating that cssu-testing users are now just 3 clicks - without proper warning - away from moving to thumb irreversably |
| 14:51.43 | freemangordon | yes, I see, maybe a good idea to issue a warning |
| 14:51.53 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ^^^ |
| 14:51.56 | merlin1991 | irreersably is invalid aswell |
| 14:51.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book that stinks |
| 14:51.59 | merlin1991 | there is uninstaller now |
| 14:52.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL oh yeah |
| 14:52.22 | freemangordon | merlin1991: not sure what will happen with the kernel though |
| 14:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | surely tested like hell for rolling back from thumb to testing |
| 14:53.02 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it will roll back to stock PR1.3 |
| 14:53.06 | freemangordon | not to -testing |
| 14:53.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | see? |
| 14:53.25 | freemangordon | see what? |
| 14:53.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably exactly what users will want to do, after accidentally scooped in to thumb |
| 14:54.07 | merlin1991 | go and accidentally enable an apt catalogue |
| 14:54.15 | merlin1991 | in my book that's downright retarded |
| 14:54.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | hahahahaha |
| 14:54.38 | freemangordon | no need another paste |
| 14:55.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: yeah, you seem to get my thinking |
| 14:55.12 | kerio | enabling repos and then blindly upgrading is retarded |
| 14:55.12 | kerio | BUT |
| 14:55.16 | kerio | users *are* retards |
| 14:55.29 | freemangordon | merlin1991: I still think a warning on TMO should be issued |
| 14:55.46 | kerio | to be fair cssu-thumb and cssu-devel aren't even proper cssu projects |
| 14:56.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | <joerandom> Why the fsck does cssu-testing even ship with that catalog, when I'm not supposed to enable it? |
| 14:56.18 | freemangordon | kerio: how do you decide that? |
| 14:56.54 | freemangordon | what is your criteria for "proper cssu project"? |
| 14:57.09 | kerio | curl wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | grep thumb |
| 14:57.21 | kerio | to be fair it gives out three lines, but it's because <div class="thumb tnone"> |
| 14:57.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g a wiki frontpage with explanations and install procedure and one-click install |
| 14:57.29 | freemangordon | see :P |
| 14:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and with proper warning about all possible pitfalls |
| 14:58.25 | kerio | reasking a question that i already asked but was left unanswered: do we really need the distinction between trusted repo and nontrusted repo? |
| 14:58.53 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, there is TMO thread with that. yes, wiki is a better place, feel free to write the article |
| 14:59.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | for thumb? dream on |
| 14:59.15 | kerio | freemangordon: the issue is that now the repo is something that just happens to be shipped with the other cssu stuff |
| 14:59.35 | freemangordon | kerio: I know, not saying it is a good thing |
| 15:00.17 | freemangordon | I told you, I was not aware of that change, so don't argue with me about the possible implications |
| 15:00.38 | kerio | the change was done, in good faith, by Pali |
| 15:00.50 | freemangordon | though on the other hand it is very good PR to have that catalog |
| 15:00.51 | kerio | because community-ssu-enabler doesn't have the old kludgy workaround for domain changes |
| 15:00.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: see? ^^^ Stop blaming *me* for not being aware of them and thus not testing them |
| 15:01.18 | kerio | and so, without adding your repo to the trusted repo list, you can't ship upgrades to system binaries |
| 15:01.25 | kerio | or something |
| 15:01.49 | kerio | which brings us back to my question: do we really need the trusted/nontrusted division for repos in HAM? |
| 15:01.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and kerio: see? ^^^ that's why the "procedure" I sketched above been in place in the better old times |
| 15:03.50 | kerio | adding trusted repos is a biatch |
| 15:03.51 | freemangordon | kerio: the "PR" point was: there is high demand for moving the whole CSSU to thumb, thus including -thumb repo in HAM brings good PR |
| 15:04.01 | freemangordon | (if we ignore doc's rants) |
| 15:04.05 | kerio | freemangordon: yes, but saying that will enrage doc |
| 15:04.13 | kerio | rightfully so! |
| 15:04.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-x |
| 15:04.40 | kerio | freemangordon: now look at what you've done! :( |
| 15:05.15 | kerio | anyway, changing a dude's kernel is something that no automated process should do |
| 15:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I just deleted a line with "sister" in it |
| 15:05.39 | kerio | haha |
| 15:05.58 | freemangordon | kerio: every Nokia PR did exactly that, flasheed a new kernel |
| 15:06.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, so you think cssu could try to do worse than Nokia? sound rationale |
| 15:07.04 | freemangordon | why worse? continue what Nokia was doing :P |
| 15:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | so THE FUCK go and TEST your shit same way Nokia did! but wait... you outright denied they ever did, no? |
| 15:07.43 | kerio | freemangordon: besides, i'm not sure that installing thumb packages together with the kernel is a sound idea anyway |
| 15:08.06 | freemangordon | kerio: why? |
| 15:08.32 | kerio | because then you have thumby binaries on a non-thumby kernel, until you reboot |
| 15:08.46 | merlin1991 | kerio: that's why you use fsckd ham for system upgrades |
| 15:08.49 | freemangordon | kerio: that is what HAM does ;) |
| 15:08.51 | merlin1991 | it shuts down non upgrade shit |
| 15:08.54 | merlin1991 | upgrades |
| 15:08.55 | merlin1991 | reboots |
| 15:09.03 | kerio | merlin1991: we can't know if the upgrade shit will launch binaries |
| 15:09.08 | kerio | preinst/postinst? |
| 15:09.16 | freemangordon | of course we can |
| 15:09.25 | freemangordon | because we provide them |
| 15:09.51 | freemangordon | (.postinst scripts) |
| 15:09.58 | freemangordon | and stuff like that |
| 15:10.42 | merlin1991 | anyway I'll split the catalogues out of the enabler packge and will provdie the upgrade asap |
| 15:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nah, deadend argument. It won't create real problems |
| 15:11.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: now THAT is a nice thing to read/hear |
| 15:11.56 | kerio | merlin1991: not all of them, though |
| 15:12.04 | merlin1991 | all of them |
| 15:12.16 | kerio | watches as CSSU suddenly becomes nonworking |
| 15:12.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | so i'll try to chill and go for a more reasonable way of argumenting: cssu-thumb repo should come with dedicated cssu-thumb-enabler like cssu-testing may have to come with cssu-testing-enabler. If anything |
| 15:13.02 | merlin1991 | kerio: the enabler will depend on "cssu-catalogues" and there is going to be a package for each cssu-flavour |
| 15:13.33 | kerio | hm, what decides the domain for a package? |
| 15:13.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: sounds sane |
| 15:14.06 | freemangordon | finally, microb-engine is built, hip hip hooray |
| 15:14.13 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: unless the cssu-catalogues package itself becomes a system package |
| 15:14.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ?? |
| 15:15.09 | kerio | i don't know what packages are marked as "only install from trusted repos" |
| 15:15.18 | kerio | it could even be "all packages that are in trusted repos" |
| 15:16.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, the foundation rationale for making cssu catalogs "system/trusted". Yeah I still fail to get the whole picture of that as well |
| 15:16.33 | merlin1991 | kerio: trusted repo goes as fast only trusted repo package with higher priority can override package from other trusted repo |
| 15:17.02 | kerio | and i ask yet again: why can't we just make HAM ignore all that noise? |
| 15:17.36 | kerio | it's literally two gconf keys from PR1.3, and then we can install our HAM that stops caring |
| 15:17.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it kinda feels like a move into wrong direction, I agree |
| 15:18.32 | kerio | i mean, it's not like you can protect yourself from evil repos, anyway |
| 15:18.44 | kerio | you just need to prompt *one* upgrade for a non-system package and you're running shit as root |
| 15:22.18 | kerio | throws his 0.02 on "drop the 'trust' nonsense, it's not like i trust nokia anyway" |
| 15:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm even unclear about whether al this is about trust at all |
| 15:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | or some priorisation thing, or just about disabling deletion of repos in HAM, or whatever |
| 15:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | so pretty please (no sarcasm): could somebody with more clue explain the rationale behind all that to me? |
| 15:24.45 | merlin1991 | remove the ugly hack from ham |
| 15:24.49 | merlin1991 | that's the rationale |
| 15:25.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, remove a ugly hack to get a ugly UX from a nice HAM code? |
| 15:26.04 | merlin1991 | there was a really ugly hack in plase over apt-worker to allow for cssu and other fun replacing system packages |
| 15:26.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now I don't think I perceive this as an improvement that any end user benefits from |
| 15:26.21 | merlin1991 | which also prompted the possibility of installing all kinds of system packges from -extras |
| 15:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just drop a sidenote here: development is not for developers to enjoy the code, development ideally is targeted at end users appreciating the result |
| 15:28.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise this whole enterprise was academic |
| 15:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | a) define UX, b) define what needs to be done in software to get that UX, c) find nice code to achieve a) thru b) |
| 15:31.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | idle patching on level c) only valid if you take care that neither a) nor b) see any impact |
| 15:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems this principle got forgotten a lot, recently, in cssu |
| 15:33.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the rationale behind the domain thing is on http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/repos-devel.html |
| 15:35.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: thanks a lot :-) |
| 15:37.28 | freemangordon | merlin1991: need osso-gnome-vfs2 too |
| 15:37.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: from what's written there, it's just a matter of gpg keys |
| 15:38.14 | kerio | so we don't need the actual repositories in HAM at all |
| 15:41.40 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: and it's basically apt priority, but with gpg keys |
| 15:44.33 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ping |
| 15:45.46 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: done |
| 15:46.09 | freemangordon | thanks |
| 15:47.22 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@193.2.218.150) |
| 15:49.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: would you be ok with it if we only shipped the domain information for the keys in those repos, but not the repos themselves? |
| 15:49.41 | kerio | those repos=community-thumb and maybe also community-devel |
| 15:57.52 | kerio | freemangordon: have you done all the updates then? |
| 15:58.02 | freemangordon | yep |
| 15:58.41 | freemangordon | fuck, does not boot :( |
| 16:00.45 | freemangordon | seems like xserver is broken :( |
| 16:01.04 | freemangordon | kerio: can you risk a reflash? |
| 16:01.13 | freemangordon | or BM restore |
| 16:02.09 | kerio | hell naw |
| 16:02.19 | freemangordon | ok |
| 16:02.46 | kerio | hold on, didn't you just recompile everything? |
| 16:02.54 | kerio | shouldn't it be the exact same thing? |
| 16:03.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: as long as the domain/key info doesn't alter UX I'm all fine with it |
| 16:03.56 | kerio | yeah, yeah, it would be just hidden |
| 16:04.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I actually never wrapped my head around how HAM7apt is suuposed to get the signature keys of any repo |
| 16:05.09 | freemangordon | kerio: yes, but with newer compiler |
| 16:05.13 | freemangordon | 4.7.2 |
| 16:05.13 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: apt-key :) |
| 16:05.22 | kerio | freemangordon: i see |
| 16:05.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | good point :-) |
| 16:08.00 | kerio | freemangordon: do you really need me to test the new xserver? :s |
| 16:08.16 | kerio | runs a BM backup |
| 16:08.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: not planning to pester you, but see how bugs sneak in. Now if a bug doesn't result in instant boot-failure but maybe introduces more sneaky hidden problems, we also get a problem with our quality requirements on cssu-'genuine' |
| 16:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | just saying: not even a "simple rebuild" is free of risk, and somebody needs to test every build |
| 16:10.53 | kerio | of course, that's what we're here for :D |
| 16:11.14 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and that is what I am doing right now :) |
| 16:11.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: we're simply not enough people here willing to do in-depth tests, to accomplish that task for a large number of packages |
| 16:11.46 | kerio | notes that right now, on a public repo, there's an xserver .deb that doesn't work |
| 16:12.19 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we can just increase the number of packages |
| 16:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: hm? if you're saying we can go package-by-package on our own pace... sure we can |
| 16:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | but to be honest I don't see any decent in-depth tests getting performed on any arbitrary single package right now |
| 16:16.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart wiki.maemo.org |
| 16:16.08 | infobot | executes killall -HUP wiki.maemo.org |
| 16:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | might help |
| 16:19.55 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, we just release so many that we can't be expected to test them all correctly |
| 16:19.59 | kerio | so people will be more understanding :3 |
| 16:21.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | haha |
| 16:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Quality is of paramount importance to the Community SSU. There are, therefore, two repositories: testing and stable. Changes are carefully tested, with an extensive set of tests, before things are made "stable".<< |
| 16:21.10 | kerio | freemangordon: found the problem? i have a backup |
| 16:21.21 | freemangordon | installing again |
| 16:21.36 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: nowhere it says that the packages in those two repositories have quality, though :D |
| 16:21.41 | kerio | it's just really important to us |
| 16:22.20 | kerio | Quality is of paramount importance to the Community SSU. That's why we keep it for ourselves, and only release buggy shit. |
| 16:24.19 | freemangordon | yeah, it is deffinitely xserver that is broken lets find why |
| 16:24.57 | freemangordon | though I can simply compile it with 4.6.2 and investigate tomorrow |
| 16:29.30 | kerio | it would be better, yes :) |
| 16:29.37 | kerio | where do you compile, btw? |
| 16:29.47 | kerio | and how? |
| 16:29.54 | kerio | scratchbox? |
| 16:40.13 | freemangordon | yes |
| 16:40.28 | freemangordon | merlin1991: could you delete xserver from the repo? |
| 16:40.36 | merlin1991 | on my way |
| 16:41.39 | merlin1991 | done |
| 16:51.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i can't believe you still don't have cssu-thumb on one of your n900s, though :c |
| 16:55.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: my time is rather limited to do all the nice things I _could_ do :-/ |
| 16:56.01 | freemangordon | merlin1991: i think to use the old package for xserver, despite it has broken versioning |
| 16:56.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | better |
| 16:56.13 | freemangordon | any objections? |
| 16:56.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | no pretty version string can make up for real working property |
| 16:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW better have a nice package with a broken version, than a broken package with a nice version |
| 16:59.35 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 16:59.57 | freemangordon | just too tired now to get through all xsever debugging |
| 17:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | then better postpone it, debugging while tired is useless |
| 17:00.38 | freemangordon | exactly |
| 17:00.39 | *** join/#maemo-ssu fw190 (3e15513c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.21.81.60) |
| 17:02.28 | *** join/#maemo-ssu fw190 (3e15513c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.21.81.60) |
| 17:02.49 | fw190 | I think that my question started a little war |
| 17:02.59 | fw190 | :) |
| 17:04.01 | freemangordon | merlin1991: I need -mp thing deleted from the repo :) |
| 17:04.12 | kerio | fw190: nah |
| 17:04.21 | kerio | actually, thank you for exposing a minor problem |
| 17:05.07 | fw190 | maemo-ssu is hot as usuall :) |
| 17:08.28 | freemangordon | merlin1991: ping |
| 17:10.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | fw190: many thanks for making us aware of this issue |
| 17:12.56 | fw190 | freemengordon: If you need someone to test I can :) BM is there so and a reflash is not scarry :) |
| 17:13.27 | freemangordon | fw190: hopefully when merlin1991 appears there will be a new update :) |
| 17:17.36 | fw190 | ok. tu sum up. I should jus hit ther link from tmo first post? |
| 17:17.46 | freemangordon | yep |
| 17:18.07 | freemangordon | just wait for the new update though |
| 17:18.26 | fw190 | roger :) |
| 17:18.32 | freemangordon | :) |
| 17:18.34 | kerio | freemangordon: does the new xorg work? |
| 17:18.39 | kerio | well, the old xorg |
| 17:18.50 | freemangordon | yes, you have it installed on your device |
| 17:18.59 | freemangordon | I reupload the same package |
| 17:19.02 | kerio | oh you :3 |
| 17:19.56 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@193.2.218.150) |
| 17:22.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | reminds me of some acient TV advert for Palmolive dish deteregent: "you're just bathing your fingers in it...." - dunno why |
| 17:23.28 | kerio | freemangordon: but... the version is wrong! |
| 17:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 17:23.39 | freemangordon | but... it works |
| 17:23.49 | kerio | but... the version is wrong! |
| 17:23.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's the point |
| 17:24.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | it *works* |
| 17:24.09 | kerio | freemangordon: can't you change the version in the package? |
| 17:24.10 | freemangordon | and i doubt there will be xorg update in CSSU ever |
| 17:24.14 | kerio | or is it compiled? |
| 17:24.29 | kerio | freemangordon: you're showing a surprising lack of futureproofing :c |
| 17:24.32 | freemangordon | kerio: it is compiled and I don;t want to risk another broken build |
| 17:24.51 | freemangordon | kerio: it is only one package, we can alter the epoch if needed |
| 17:25.22 | kerio | freemangordon: hm, to be fair 2:1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.108+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 will be greater than what we have now |
| 17:25.29 | kerio | i think |
| 17:25.30 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: removed |
| 17:25.33 | kerio | no, actually it won't be |
| 17:25.34 | kerio | but whatever |
| 17:25.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | can see pissibility of Xorg updates in cssu |
| 17:25.40 | freemangordon | merlin1991: thanks |
| 17:25.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe pissibility |
| 17:25.46 | merlin1991 | also I can't even take a nice shower without you wanting me to remove something :D |
| 17:26.03 | kerio | merlin1991: i want you to remove xorg, because the version is wrong D: |
| 17:26.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: XD |
| 17:26.36 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 17:26.54 | merlin1991 | btw freemangordon you can alter the version in the old package aswell ;) |
| 17:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: schedule some lessons to teach me stand-in. Might also help when you're in holiday or get hit by a bus ;-D |
| 17:27.03 | kerio | merlin1991: not the version string compiled in the binary, though |
| 17:27.16 | merlin1991 | kerio: the binary contains one aswell? |
| 17:27.23 | kerio | i hope so? |
| 17:27.24 | merlin1991 | that is derived from the debian version? |
| 17:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not |
| 17:27.40 | fw190 | freemangordon: could you ping me when the time is right for starting? |
| 17:27.42 | merlin1991 | highly unlikely |
| 17:27.57 | freemangordon | fw190: in 10 minutes |
| 17:28.16 | fw190 | roger :) |
| 17:29.00 | kerio | freemangordon: hm, you could do what merlin1991 said |
| 17:29.11 | kerio | so we won't have a handful of package with the wrong versioning |
| 17:29.18 | merlin1991 | kerio: I couldn't find any -v / --version / whatever command towards Xorg |
| 17:29.20 | kerio | merlin1991: how do you change a deb? |
| 17:29.23 | kerio | merlin1991: yeah, me neither |
| 17:29.33 | freemangordon | the fuck "dpkg - warning: downgrading libosso-gnomevfs2-common from 2.16.3-2osso12+0m5+0cssu1.1 to 2.16.3-2osso12+0m5+0cssu1+thumb1" |
| 17:29.51 | kerio | it's a downgrade, yes |
| 17:30.11 | kerio | also wtf, why is it cssu1.1? |
| 17:30.20 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: 0cssu1.1 vs 0cssu1 |
| 17:30.28 | freemangordon | i see, but why? |
| 17:30.35 | freemangordon | why it is 1.1 |
| 17:30.50 | freemangordon | 1.1 is -for -devel, not for stable |
| 17:30.55 | freemangordon | -testing |
| 17:31.03 | merlin1991 | because "1" was badly thumb compiled in -testing |
| 17:31.08 | merlin1991 | aka mags scratchbox fun |
| 17:31.26 | freemangordon | but why not 2? |
| 17:31.43 | merlin1991 | becuase it was only a recompile and thus a minor change? I dunno |
| 17:32.33 | merlin1991 | kerio: you can use for example dpkg -x and dpkg -b to extract change and rebuild a .deb |
| 17:33.00 | merlin1991 | or you can go straight to the fun and use ar and tar (ar is the outer archive with tar archives inside) |
| 17:33.24 | kerio | merlin1991: sounds dirty |
| 17:33.26 | kerio | freemangordon: do eeeet |
| 17:33.29 | merlin1991 | :D |
| 17:34.11 | freemangordon | anyway, i fixed the version in -thumb |
| 17:36.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're nasty pushing freemangordon when he already said he's too tired to do proper debugging |
| 17:36.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 17:37.28 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yesterday i suggested meth |
| 17:37.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | seen that |
| 17:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | see what it got you? |
| 17:38.10 | kerio | no, i'm complaining because he didn't follow my suggestion and went drinking instead :( |
| 17:38.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | meth transforms your brain into a swiss cheese with huge holes |
| 17:42.22 | *** join/#maemo-ssu fw190 (3e15513c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.21.81.60) |
| 17:42.31 | freemangordon | fw190: you should be good to go |
| 17:42.40 | fw190 | ok |
| 17:42.48 | fw190 | starting launch sequence ;p |
| 17:43.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaaand liftoff! |
| 17:44.08 | fw190 | no |
| 17:44.13 | fw190 | HAM is still working |
| 17:44.20 | fw190 | I'm on the ground |
| 17:44.22 | fw190 | ;) |
| 17:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't worry, space won't vanish |
| 17:44.52 | fw190 | checking for updates... |
| 17:44.56 | kerio | i propose http://www.wpclipart.com/food/meat/pork/whole_ham.png as the new HAM icon |
| 17:45.06 | fw190 | I have only extras so it's quick |
| 17:45.42 | fw190 | question |
| 17:45.48 | fw190 | should I hit update all |
| 17:45.52 | fw190 | or just maemo |
| 17:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr |
| 17:46.04 | freemangordon | maemo |
| 17:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | what else is in there? |
| 17:46.10 | freemangordon | libqtm |
| 17:46.12 | fw190 | qt stuf |
| 17:46.27 | freemangordon | fw190: only mameo update |
| 17:46.37 | fw190 | ok |
| 17:46.43 | kerio | maemo, not mameo! |
| 17:46.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh *YOU* fscked my marble qtlineedit? |
| 17:47.04 | fw190 | 37,9mb - download started |
| 17:47.07 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: not unless you've been using cssu-thumb! |
| 17:47.07 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: not me, you don;t use -thumb |
| 17:47.29 | freemangordon | fw190: did you look at how much space will be freed? |
| 17:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | waves and hopes for making it out the door for dinner |
| 17:48.42 | kerio | freemangordon: ooh, why did you recompile modest? |
| 17:49.08 | fw190 | damn forgot to take a look |
| 17:49.23 | fw190 | it's updating |
| 17:51.24 | kerio | fscking messybox, why doesn't your grep have a way to have a pattern that starts with "-"? |
| 17:51.40 | fw190 | it said to me that the update went well |
| 17:51.43 | fw190 | reeboot ;) |
| 17:52.27 | kerio | oh no, -- works there too |
| 17:54.10 | kerio | freemangordon: alright, packages with still a busted version (that i have installed): busybox-power, curl, fennec, libcurl3, xserver-xomap, xserver-xorg-core |
| 17:54.17 | kerio | of those, only xserver is in the metapackage afaik |
| 17:54.44 | kerio | actually no, libcurl3 is also there |
| 17:54.53 | kerio | hey mr freemangordon! you forgot one! |
| 17:55.05 | kerio | freemangordon: and it's one of the problematic ones D: |
| 17:55.14 | freemangordon | kerio: what? |
| 17:55.20 | kerio | oh no, you haven't forgotten about that |
| 17:55.21 | freemangordon | which one |
| 17:55.22 | kerio | hm |
| 17:55.44 | kerio | no, nvm |
| 17:55.48 | freemangordon | kerio: look here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1267008&postcount=666 |
| 17:55.50 | kerio | i just didn't have it in the repo |
| 17:56.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | watches kerio playing shock-the-monkey with fmg |
| 17:56.33 | fw190 | works fo rme |
| 17:56.39 | kerio | fw190: yeah, yours is a new install |
| 17:56.46 | kerio | freemangordon: i disapprove |
| 17:56.48 | kerio | but it should work |
| 17:57.08 | freemangordon | is too tired to be shocked by anything but a lack of jack daniels |
| 17:57.28 | kerio | freemangordon: hm, why does the "new" curl want me to install libidn11? |
| 17:57.31 | kerio | is that intended? |
| 17:57.45 | fw190 | freemangordon: should I rn any tests? commands? for you? |
| 17:58.00 | freemangordon | kerio: read what I posted and follow the instructions ATL LEAST ONCE |
| 17:58.09 | freemangordon | fw190: well use you device |
| 17:58.13 | merlin1991 | ~lart ham |
| 17:58.13 | infobot | whips out his power stapler and staples ham's foot to the floor |
| 17:58.36 | kerio | freemangordon: dude, the only package i've yet to upgrade is curl |
| 17:58.42 | kerio | up/downgrade |
| 17:58.56 | freemangordon | well, running a script worths nothing |
| 17:59.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot, that's useless. HAM doesn't move feet anyway |
| 17:59.14 | kerio | it would do jack shit to me, i already have those exact versions installed |
| 18:00.28 | kerio | hold on, what? |
| 18:00.33 | kerio | the new mp wants me to remove procps |
| 18:00.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 18:00.56 | freemangordon | kerio: remove what? |
| 18:01.10 | kerio | oh ffs, it depends on busybox-symlinks-procps |
| 18:01.12 | freemangordon | busybox-power there? |
| 18:01.22 | kerio | no, wait |
| 18:01.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | runs before kerio got a chance to play shock teh monkey with him too |
| 18:02.27 | kerio | yep, the new mp-fremantle-community-pr, even the non-thumby one, depends on busybox-symlinks-procps |
| 18:02.38 | freemangordon | yep |
| 18:02.42 | kerio | and that's bullshit |
| 18:02.50 | freemangordon | ask merlin1991 |
| 18:02.51 | freemangordon | :D |
| 18:02.53 | kerio | merlin1991: that's bullshit |
| 18:03.45 | merlin1991 | kerio: it isn#t |
| 18:03.57 | merlin1991 | compare with pr1.3 mp |
| 18:06.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ rc procps 1:3.2.7-11maemo1+0m5 /proc file system utilities |
| 18:10.47 | *** join/#maemo-ssu M13 (~M13@170.133-224-87.telenet.ru) |
| 18:11.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, byebye mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 18:15.19 | *** join/#maemo-ssu nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 18:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ii procps 1:3.2.7-11maemo1+0m5 /proc file system utilities |
| 18:16.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# dpkg -l mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 18:16.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | pn mp-fremantle-community-pr <none> (no description available) |
| 18:19.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: lol indeed |
| 18:20.15 | kerio | merlin1991: i don't care about the pr1.3 mp |
| 18:20.21 | kerio | i care about the fact that procps isn't installable now |
| 18:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if it ever been, or |
| 18:21.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I accepted any breakage when I installed it last time |
| 18:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's obviously no gnu-ified pkg anyway |
| 18:22.12 | kerio | nope, the old mp had no mentions of busybox at all |
| 18:22.19 | *** join/#maemo-ssu BCMM (~ben@unaffiliated/bcmm) |
| 18:22.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm :-/ |
| 18:22.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: should procps Provide busybox-symlinks-procps? |
| 18:22.38 | kerio | it sounds... backwards |
| 18:22.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not? |
| 18:23.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | does it? |
| 18:23.11 | kerio | it doesn't |
| 18:23.15 | kerio | otherwise there would be no such breakage |
| 18:23.33 | kerio | interestly enough, busybox-symlinks-procps replaces, provides and conflicts with procps |
| 18:23.44 | kerio | that's bullshit, it doesn't provide procps at all |
| 18:23.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | if anything, any MP should ask for provides:procps, not any weird busybox package |
| 18:24.49 | kerio | MPs are the devil, anyway |
| 18:25.13 | kerio | goddammit why do i need community-ssu-enabler? |
| 18:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh, you coukd argue that only busybox-symlinks-procps guarantees availability during early boot? |
| 18:26.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: procps doesn't come close to /opt |
| 18:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: because it has awesome new repositories and an undo I don't have a clue how to even invoke it |
| 18:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | (/opt) indeed |
| 18:26.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it's like community-ssu-disabler |
| 18:27.02 | kerio | oh wtf |
| 18:27.04 | kerio | procps is fscked too |
| 18:27.10 | kerio | /etc/init.d/procps: Set kernel variables from /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 18:27.12 | kerio | what the FUCK |
| 18:27.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOLOLOLandCHEERS |
| 18:28.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sort that shit out, I expect to see a solution when I'm back from dinner! ;-P |
| 18:28.48 | kerio | i just uninstalled procps |
| 18:28.58 | kerio | i still don't want pali's weird catalogues all over my ham, though |
| 18:37.14 | *** join/#maemo-ssu fw190 (3e15513c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.21.81.60) |
| 18:37.41 | fw190 | ok I'm an idiot and installed uboot from pali, rebooted and... |
| 18:37.45 | kerio | lol |
| 18:37.48 | kerio | fw190: after installing thumb? |
| 18:38.02 | fw190 | Is there any chance fix this without reflash |
| 18:38.07 | kerio | sure |
| 18:38.11 | kerio | well, it's still a reflash |
| 18:38.17 | kerio | but only the kernel is flashed :) |
| 18:38.19 | fw190 | kerio: yes- jus as I told - I'm an idiot |
| 18:38.21 | Pali | flasher can load kernel without flashing |
| 18:38.41 | kerio | Pali: well, eventually he'll want a kernel that can boot a thumby system flashed |
| 18:38.52 | fw190 | I was uable to install uboot image from HAM why is that? |
| 18:39.07 | Pali | so download kernel-cssu-bootimg deb package |
| 18:39.16 | Pali | unpack kernel from it and boot it via flasher |
| 18:39.28 | Pali | and maemo will be running and install this package |
| 18:40.14 | Pali | set cssu kernel image as default for uboot, reboot and everything should work |
| 18:40.14 | fw190 | pali: thanks for the tips but flashing will be easier for me I think |
| 18:41.18 | kerio | Pali: are you absolutely sure that the domain thing works as intended? |
| 18:41.38 | kerio | because the HAM documentation states that the domain of a package is only determined by the key used to sign it |
| 18:41.52 | Pali | kerio, what is bad with ham domains? |
| 18:41.57 | Pali | that is not true |
| 18:42.28 | Pali | ham checking for gpg key and apt repository (like output from apt-policy) |
| 18:42.32 | Pali | see source code |
| 18:42.36 | kerio | hm |
| 18:42.41 | kerio | k |
| 18:42.55 | Pali | and ham doing its own gpg key checking |
| 18:43.14 | Pali | it not using system apt-key (/etc/apt/gpgsomething) database |
| 18:43.37 | Pali | but it loads gpg keys from /usr/share/hildon-app... |
| 18:44.40 | fw190 | does anyonne have diret link to flasher and images? |
| 18:44.46 | fw190 | maemo wiki doesn't load |
| 18:45.14 | Pali | for kernel-cssu? |
| 18:45.42 | Pali | you need to flash only kernel... |
| 18:46.56 | fw190 | I wanted to but I have to download the flasher |
| 18:47.02 | fw190 | as it's not my pc |
| 18:47.09 | fw190 | and I have to install it first |
| 18:47.54 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair procps is a weird-ass package from sdk tools |
| 18:48.06 | kerio | so i feel that we don't have a right to complain |
| 18:49.15 | *** join/#maemo-ssu fredrinLap (~fn@cm-84.208.108.15.getinternet.no) |
| 18:49.19 | fredrinLap | hai guise |
| 18:51.25 | Pali | ~flashing |
| 18:51.25 | infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 18:52.30 | kerio | fredrinLap: hai |
| 18:53.31 | fredrinLap | kerio: :) |
| 18:53.41 | fredrinLap | reboot now, so fare soo goood |
| 18:55.05 | fredrinLap | ok, seams ok |
| 18:55.15 | fredrinLap | just ran the freemangordon script |
| 18:55.38 | kerio | fredrinLap: do you mind pasting the output of a command for me? |
| 18:55.49 | fredrinLap | sure |
| 18:55.50 | kerio | dpkg -l | grep -- -thumb |
| 18:55.58 | fredrinLap | just see if ssh is working again |
| 18:58.40 | fredrinLap | Worked when I restarted the ssh init script |
| 18:58.51 | fredrinLap | how to check why it dont start at boot? |
| 18:59.24 | kerio | worksforme |
| 18:59.26 | kerio | \_o_/ |
| 18:59.31 | kerio | do you have syslog enabled? |
| 19:05.01 | fredrinLap | kerio: here it comes |
| 19:05.04 | fredrinLap | ii busybox-power 1.20.2power1-thumb0 Tiny utilities for small and embedded system |
| 19:05.04 | fredrinLap | ii hildon-thumbnail 3.0.51+0m5 Thumbnail library related programs. |
| 19:05.04 | fredrinLap | ii libhildon-thumbnail0 3.0.51+0m5 Thumbnail library. |
| 19:05.04 | fredrinLap | ii libnspr4 1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0-thumb1 Netscape Portable Runtime Library |
| 19:05.04 | fredrinLap | ii libnss3 1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0-thumb1 Network Security Service Libraries - runtime |
| 19:05.06 | fredrinLap | ii libnss3-certs 1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0-thumb1 Network Security Service Libraries - runtime |
| 19:05.09 | fredrinLap | ii xserver-xomap 2:1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.108+0m5-thumb0 Meta-package for X-related things |
| 19:05.11 | fredrinLap | ii xserver-xorg-core 2:1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.108+0m5-thumb0 Xorg X server - core server |
| 19:05.38 | kerio | hm |
| 19:05.46 | kerio | freemangordon: you forgot libnspr4, libnss3, libnss3-certs |
| 19:06.04 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@193.2.218.150) |
| 19:06.16 | kerio | fredrinLap: you should run apt-get install libnspr4=1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 libnss3=1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 libnss3-certs=1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 |
| 19:08.36 | fredrinLap | kerio: done |
| 19:08.41 | fredrinLap | reboot? |
| 19:08.51 | merlin1991 | kerio: those are part of libcurl iirc |
| 19:08.53 | kerio | nah, it's not really important |
| 19:09.09 | kerio | merlin1991: nope, microb-engine |
| 19:09.18 | merlin1991 | headdesks |
| 19:09.20 | merlin1991 | yeah you're right :D |
| 19:09.31 | kerio | fredrinLap: the version change is just a version change, the underlying source is still the same |
| 19:09.43 | kerio | although freemangordon used it to recompile everything with a newer compiler |
| 19:09.47 | kerio | so stuff should be slightly faster |
| 19:09.48 | fredrinLap | kerio: ok |
| 19:11.29 | kerio | freemangordon: see, this kind of thing is what happens when you try to do things manually instead of letting apt do what it does best |
| 19:12.04 | kerio | >;) |
| 19:22.00 | fredrinLap | hum, tried to install debianutils, then apt wanted me to remove 442MB of essential packages... |
| 19:23.37 | ShadowJK | installing stuff from non-maemo repositories is a bad idea? :) |
| 19:24.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | ohhi ShadowJK |
| 19:24.57 | kerio | ShadowJK: it's in extras-devel |
| 19:25.03 | kerio | no, wait |
| 19:25.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: I didn't exactly complain about procps |
| 19:26.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: it's kind of a mess, though |
| 19:26.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | just mentioning I thought I once got it installed |
| 19:28.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, maybe I shouldn't complain at all. Maybe if we ship another few annoyances time is right for deploying a proper migration untility to go T->S |
| 19:30.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's just I thought T is testing for fitness to go S, not to do general fieldtest of beta versions |
| 19:31.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | since that's what cssu-devel is meant to be |
| 19:34.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'll try harder to nsist in independant *decent* testing prior to me shouting "yea" for any inclusion to cssu-t |
| 19:34.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | insist* even |
| 19:35.18 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: hey, blame merlin1991 |
| 19:35.22 | kerio | he's the dude with the release |
| 19:36.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | obviously devels are generally incapable to have a critical glance on their own babies (incl me of course) |
| 19:37.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'll blame merlin1991 for not discussing here what to include to cssu, like we did a year ago |
| 19:39.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | I'll also consider to blame him for not picking up on my offer to play guinea pig and install from a non-official repo prior to rollout |
| 19:41.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon already agreed on us needing to revive the IRC discussions what to (not) include to next T release |
| 19:42.14 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: i hope for you that community-ssu-enabler uninstalls nicely :D |
| 19:42.19 | kerio | but of course, it can't |
| 19:42.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | and any sane developer won't want to take sole responsibility for a patch and rather discusses it with peers, usually here |
| 19:43.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | hope for me? How am I concerned about it? |
| 19:44.43 | kerio | you were pretty upset by the catalogue thing |
| 19:44.55 | kerio | i meant you as a user |
| 19:46.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | aah |
| 19:46.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | well |
| 19:47.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | we'll see |
| 19:48.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | I was more upset on how it crept in than on the fact it did |
| 19:48.36 | kerio | hehe |
| 19:48.47 | kerio | tbh i vote for the removal of the silly domain thing |
| 19:49.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | tricky stuff |
| 19:49.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | needs nights of discussion |
| 19:49.28 | kerio | looks at the sky outside |
| 19:49.54 | kerio | hey, it is night! |
| 19:50.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | you don't rush n and improve stuff 20 other experienced devels tailored over weeks and months |
| 19:51.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer51: ...are we talking about the same HAM? |
| 19:52.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | if 10 experienced devels look at the code, ideally recall how it happened, and decide unisono "that's a bug", then fine |
| 19:52.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: this is about a maintenance concept much much larger than silly HAM |
| 19:54.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | and today you've seen live what happens when just picking pkg names or versions lightheaded |
| 19:54.44 | kerio | yeah, yeah |
| 19:55.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | how much moe impact to expect from stuff like that trust shit |
| 19:55.14 | kerio | on the other hand, completely disabling that priority system is what CSSU has done from the first version until now |
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| 19:55.54 | kerio | (it's what the wrapper around apt-worker did, it forcefed it the option to ignore the domains) |
| 19:57.29 | kerio | so we do have a lot of "field testing" for it |
| 20:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | so we might want to stay with it, unless somebody comes up with a really good story why and how we can do better, and what exactly are the benefits from that doing-better |
| 20:03.00 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: hold on, that can be parsed as supporting both ways |
| 20:03.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I'm definitely blaming Pali for not initiating and leading this discussion here |
| 20:05.01 | fredrinLap | what's this blame game? |
| 20:05.29 | kerio | shirley shirley bo birley banana fana fo firley |
| 20:05.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you come up with something you think is better, be prepared for bashing. It's always been like that, and it's in best interest of the project, since when you can defend your idea against all bashing it must have a good point to it |
| 20:05.36 | kerio | no, wait, that's the name game |
| 20:06.00 | fredrinLap | I'm with DocScrutinizer05, he's the oldest |
| 20:06.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: *only* when you can defend your idea against all bashing it *could* have a good point to it |
| 20:06.29 | merlin1991 | can we stop the blamegame? |
| 20:06.33 | kerio | but it's a fun game! |
| 20:06.41 | kerio | and it's DocScrutinizer05's fault for starting it, anyway |
| 20:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | blame is nothing negative |
| 20:07.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | hell, there's even a "blame" button in gitorious |
| 20:08.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | if devels think you're blame-worthy, feel honoured |
| 20:08.11 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: anyway, fixing the kludgy apt-worker wrapper was something to be done |
| 20:08.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | how much worse would be an ignore |
| 20:08.33 | kerio | otoh, there was a cleaner way to do the same thing |
| 20:09.03 | kerio | (ignore the HAM domains) |
| 20:09.26 | kerio | i'm not sure if it's something that only works with redpill mode enabled, though |
| 20:09.40 | kerio | that would be a UX change |
| 20:11.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to help each other to do our lessons here, understand what it's all about with this stuff, and discuss what we think is best direction to go |
| 20:12.07 | kerio | that would be a UX change |
| 20:12.10 | kerio | whoops, sorry |
| 20:12.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless we know that best direction, not moving at all is better than walking a minefield in the dark |
| 20:15.19 | kerio | i wonder if that was a ragequit |
| 20:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | (blame) as long as you're not on par with devels/hackers (in their POV) you'll just see a "forget it" or simply silence. As soon as you achive to attract their attention so they even criticise your work (aka blame), you're already one of them |
| 20:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | who quit? |
| 20:16.53 | kerio | pali :) |
| 20:17.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yayayay |
| 20:17.16 | kerio | Remote host closed the connection |
| 20:19.32 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: otoh, you could argue that adding the cssu repos as official "system" repos was something to be done, eventually |
| 20:19.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure |
| 20:19.54 | kerio | and the cute side effect for cssu-thumb is that packages won't be upgraded to nonthumb |
| 20:20.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I#m not averse to that, as long as it's the right repos for my distro/flavour |
| 20:20.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what i'm not convinced about is the need to add *the repos* to the list |
| 20:21.01 | kerio | i mean, the domain file and the catalogs file are completely different |
| 20:21.51 | kerio | so you could just add the domain information and the keys on the side, and just keep the user in control of the repos |
| 20:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | for now (unconfirmed by evaluation) I think cssu-testing-installer should install cssu-t repo as system repo, and cssu-stable-installer should install cssu-s repo. And probably thumb needs a similar installer |
| 20:21.57 | kerio | that they'll just automagically work |
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| 20:47.21 | merlin1991 | hm the packages for the domain and catalogue entry have to be a single package each, so create a component on giorious for each one / have them in the cssu-enabler tree / create 1 component on gitorious and have all 4 in there |
| 20:47.23 | merlin1991 | thoughts? |
| 21:01.28 | kerio | knows nothing about git |
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| 21:10.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme think about it, it's late on saturday |
| 21:10.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not even sure right now if your statement is too terse for me |
| 21:11.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, it's a A or B or C question, right? |
| 21:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, doesn't parse |
| 21:12.29 | kerio | merlin1991: it doesn't have to be the cssu-enabler package anyway |
| 21:12.33 | kerio | i mean, it's just repos |
| 21:12.43 | kerio | and i'd really like to not have to keep the enabler installed |
| 21:13.01 | merlin1991 | kerio: we have to put the dependency on the repo somewhere |
| 21:13.06 | kerio | no we don't |
| 21:13.09 | merlin1991 | and the enabler makes most sense in that regard |
| 21:13.17 | kerio | ...wait, what? |
| 21:13.28 | kerio | the enabler just installs them |
| 21:13.54 | merlin1991 | why do you even want to uninstall the enabler? |
| 21:14.02 | kerio | why do i have to keep it installed? |
| 21:14.14 | merlin1991 | because it holds the domain info |
| 21:14.23 | kerio | also, why do i have to keep busybox-symlinks-procps installed? |
| 21:14.42 | kerio | merlin1991: i don't care about the domain info, really |
| 21:14.53 | kerio | my HAM ignores that noise |
| 21:16.16 | merlin1991 | but the domain has to work from installing cssu (which is add repo + install enabler) untill the millionth update |
| 21:16.44 | merlin1991 | and without user interaction the enabler has to depend on the domain info in order to have ham not act up for the average user |
| 21:17.03 | kerio | idea: the .install installs community-ssu-enabler and the appropriate domain package |
| 21:18.06 | merlin1991 | though since the enabler installs the mp after some point we could have the enabler depend on the domain package, the mp aswell which frees the enabler from the needed packges after mp got instlled |
| 21:18.10 | merlin1991 | but on the other hand |
| 21:18.17 | merlin1991 | the enabler contains the disabler aswell |
| 21:24.41 | kerio | btw |
| 21:25.01 | kerio | i hope you realize that downgrading to the nokia PR is something that will probably blow shit up |
| 21:26.07 | merlin1991 | how? |
| 21:26.24 | kerio | there's bound to be something that goes horribly wrong |
| 21:26.30 | kerio | especially when dealing with upstart/ke-recv |
| 21:26.46 | merlin1991 | okay thumb is a special case, but everywhere else there's nothing changed that's going to go bad |
| 21:27.35 | merlin1991 | the whole change to upstart is a 2liner that just adds a notice to /etc/fstab and ke-recv works in a backwards compatible fashion |
| 21:27.54 | merlin1991 | the unly thing that "goes wrong" is the user experience due to missing features |
| 21:30.16 | merlin1991 | s/unly/only/ |
| 21:33.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | as lil as I could follow, I think installing repos and enabler from same install script is it |
| 21:34.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-s repo for Stable, cssu-t repo for Testing |
| 21:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and honestly, an unistalled that is neither documented not accessable, nor even does anything beyond what a reflash would do... (/me scratches head) |
| 21:36.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather prefer to tackle extensions to HAM to handle proper optional packages, finally |
| 21:36.39 | merlin1991 | well it keeps the user data and settings at least compared to a reflash |
| 21:36.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | errrrr |
| 21:37.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I once heard somebody mumbling a rootfs reflash will also retain user data |
| 21:38.28 | merlin1991 | but not settings ;) |
| 21:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | which settings? |
| 21:39.20 | merlin1991 | everything that stores in the rootfs? |
| 21:39.24 | merlin1991 | ie /etc/ |
| 21:39.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is what? |
| 21:39.54 | merlin1991 | srly doc |
| 21:40.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | led patterns? |
| 21:40.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | transitions? |
| 21:40.28 | merlin1991 | come on stop trolling |
| 21:40.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, i'm serious |
| 21:41.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll even open tickets for anything that not belongs to /etc |
| 21:41.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all /etc is system wide, while $HOME is user data |
| 21:42.05 | merlin1991 | then again maemo is single user |
| 21:42.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | no it's definitely not |
| 21:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's at very least user 2user" and user "root" |
| 21:42.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I heard there might even be devel |
| 21:43.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the few locations with hardcoded "user" in pathnames etc are rather tickets than an argument not to check what's going on |
| 21:44.28 | kerio | is maemo unix? |
| 21:44.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 21:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | definitely, *nix |
| 21:44.48 | kerio | then it's definetely multiuser |
| 21:44.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | it evidently is |
| 21:45.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | we maybe don't have a multiuser capable desktop |
| 21:45.37 | kerio | can't the ipad do that? |
| 21:45.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | we definitely don't have a concurrent-multiuser desktop |
| 21:46.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | otoh I think I heard madde can run apps on device and display is on PC, and that's not user "user", that's user "devel" or whatever |
| 21:46.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui |
| 21:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | xephyr makes it |
| 21:48.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm stlll wondering what "userdata" or "settings data" might end up in /etc |
| 21:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB not system installation/configuration data, like ssh keys and whatnot, no, *real* per-user data |
| 21:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | LED patterns are arguable |
| 21:50.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book they should belong to user session and thus into $HOME |
| 21:51.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | all modem stuff is system, usually, for most who comment on it, since there's only one modem on embedded devices, and it has only one SIM with one PIN |
| 21:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and one phone-number |
| 21:52.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | evidence: PIN query dialog kicks in before even any H-D gets started |
| 21:53.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | these are all highly intriguing architectural considerations |
| 21:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I'd appreciate a lot one single instance of "user data" in /etc |
| 21:54.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I just can't come up with anything right now |
| 21:55.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | which was a shame if I'd tell BS to users asking for help regarding reflash |
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| 22:01.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme put it simple: drwxr-xr-x 93 root root 10472 2012-09-15 20:10 /etc |
| 22:06.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, i recently edited /etc/apt/preferences! |
| 22:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's evidently not USER-data |
| 22:07.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's clearly what I called "system config & installation" |
| 22:07.45 | kerio | hrmpf |
| 22:08.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's even *supposed* to get reset by reflashing, and also by "uninstalling" CSSU |
| 22:08.33 | kerio | heh |
| 22:09.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's backup app for it, to re-install all apps and related system config |
| 22:09.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | apps are not per-user, they are system global |
| 22:09.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | also are system maintenance settings for stuff like apt etc |
| 22:10.04 | kerio | i suppose that the rootfs is to be considered reflashable without any effect on user data |
| 22:10.18 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: procps is fukken huge |
| 22:10.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much ;-P |
| 22:10.47 | kerio | almost 1mb |
| 22:10.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | not only huge but also greedy for CPU and other resources |
| 22:11.13 | kerio | on the other hand, busybox's ps sucks balls |
| 22:11.21 | kerio | almost always uses pstree anyway |
| 22:11.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | bb ps is outright useless |
| 22:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless i'm all for gnu-ifying and optifying procps |
| 22:13.39 | kerio | seconds that |
| 22:13.48 | kerio | otoh, procps is not GNU, is it? |
| 22:15.34 | kerio | hahahahaha, ps' man page on os x lists this bug: |
| 22:15.35 | kerio | Since ps cannot run faster than the system and is run as any other scheduled process, the information it displays can never be exact. |
| 22:16.44 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are there any binaries in /usr, in procps? |
| 22:18.24 | kerio | meh, i'll just put them in /usr/bin/gnu anyway |
| 22:20.03 | kerio | aw, no, it has a bunch of crap in /usr |
| 22:22.03 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what do you think about the sysctl thing? |
| 22:22.08 | kerio | i'm not even sure that crap gets executed |
| 22:22.14 | kerio | there's no file in event.d for it |
| 22:22.43 | kerio | hm, apparently it installs a symlink in /etc/rcS.d |
| 22:22.49 | kerio | not sure if that is executed |
| 22:23.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | replace it by a dummy touching a flag file |
| 22:23.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'll get to know, after next boot |
| 22:24.40 | kerio | anyway, as usual there's no reason to touch the system shell, so procps should be optified/gnuified |
| 22:36.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | Xactly |
| 22:37.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | ps aka procps might even one of the most suspicious cmds when we think about former(?) boot fsckup when replacing bb by proper shell with unixtools |
| 22:37.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | eveb be* one... |
| 22:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sends a dsme -b to IroN900 |
| 22:38.13 | kerio | dsmetool -b, you mean |
| 22:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 22:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, still boots, despite procps |
| 22:42.43 | kerio | haha |
| 22:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | now for gnu-ification at install time: is there any option to do that? |
| 22:42.57 | kerio | it's in the nokia repos! |
| 22:43.05 | kerio | hm, what do you mean? |
| 22:43.27 | kerio | well |
| 22:43.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | install to other --prefix dir, don't conflict with mp-fremantle-commuity-pr |
| 22:43.44 | kerio | dpkg -u, move stuff around, change name and conflicts, dpkg -b |
| 22:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds good |
| 22:44.03 | kerio | i'm afraid apt doesn't work like that :) |
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| 22:57.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm going to fsckng 'install' that shit with tar et al, instead dpkg/apt |
| 22:58.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, simply copy away, uninstall, install mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 22:58.40 | merlin1991 | if you edit the .deb enough apt isn't going to complain at all |
| 22:59.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | that was my original plan :-) |
| 23:00.18 | merlin1991 | what's actually the problem with procps |
| 23:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:00.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ... |
| 23:00.29 | merlin1991 | where's the problem? |
| 23:00.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | it conflicts with bb in mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 23:01.19 | merlin1991 | so the procps package has a conflict with busybox? |
| 23:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 23:01.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | wit busybox-symlinks-procps to be precise |
| 23:01.58 | merlin1991 | hm so even if it is in extras people can't install it |
| 23:02.10 | merlin1991 | (on stock maemo that is) |
| 23:02.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly not |
| 23:02.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's in tools or whateber though |
| 23:02.44 | merlin1991 | because the nokia mp depend on buybox-symlinks-procps aswell |
| 23:03.09 | merlin1991 | so did you untar the fun or how did you du it now? |
| 23:03.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, failwhale |
| 23:03.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get insdtall procps |
| 23:03.25 | merlin1991 | s/du /do / |
| 23:03.34 | merlin1991 | hm that removed the community mp then |
| 23:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 23:03.47 | merlin1991 | and what's your plan for now? |
| 23:03.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: |
| 23:04.16 | merlin1991 | well without the community mp you won't have cssu updated via ham anymore |
| 23:04.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | optify, uninstall, install mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 23:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | (update) tbh I'm not sure if that makes me any sad |
| 23:05.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | right now I feel like cherrypicking |
| 23:05.45 | merlin1991 | hm I'd rather have the "optified" binaries attached to a package so I can remove them again easily, but that's a convenience thing |
| 23:50.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, I'm almost temped to patch them for gnu-* and compile and package. but only almost |
| 23:50.45 | merlin1991 | repacking that is a 5 min job for me :D |
| 23:51.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I look at du -hs /scratchbox and compare that 6.5GB with the original 4.7GB on old PC, and reconsider |
| 23:51.46 | merlin1991 | why do you even want to patch / recomile it, is there anything missing in the procps package from tools? |
| 23:51.58 | merlin1991 | because otherwise you could simply repack the deb archive |
| 23:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea, just thought I'd need to do some work to get it gnu-ified (and of course optified after that) |
| 23:56.58 | merlin1991 | if the binaries in the original package are already what you want, then you only have to repack |
