| 00:26.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: you finished your boot marathon? |
| 00:27.06 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: gave up when the battery ran out |
| 00:27.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 00:27.21 | merlin1991 | so I can say for sure, it doesn't happen before ones battery runs out :D |
| 01:00.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, let's start another funny little game |
| 01:00.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-D |
| 01:01.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | t900:~# uptime |
| 01:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohnoes! |
| 01:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it's iroN900 then to suffer the boot |
| 01:02.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;) |
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| 01:02.53 | dreamer | hmm, I'm updating and I get a popup: 'to update your device to this version of the os you must use Nokia PC Suite on your pc.' << wth? |
| 01:03.00 | dreamer | or is that just for the backup? |
| 01:04.59 | dreamer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Installation_FAQ << hmm, so maybe there's not enough space for the rootfs? |
| 01:05.12 | dreamer | should be ok |
| 01:06.19 | dreamer | wtf? why am I expected to have windows? sorry but what BS is this? |
| 01:06.55 | dreamer | confused |
| 01:07.00 | dreamer | I'll update tomorrow -_- |
| 01:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff |
| 01:07.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | or simply read /topic! |
| 01:08.36 | merlin1991 | dreamer: it also helps to read the very first A: text on the wiki page you posted |
| 01:08.56 | dreamer | DocScrutinizer05: topic is tl;dr |
| 01:09.05 | dreamer | and it's really not the time atm to do an upgrade -_- |
| 01:10.22 | dreamer | nn |
| 01:11.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff |
| 01:23.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe notice on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Installation_FAQ helps |
| 01:28.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: I compared CAL before and after PANIC reboot, no difference |
| 01:30.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | since I'm pretty sure there's no reboot counter of that kind anywhere in rootfs, and I wouldn't know where else it might get stored, conclusion is it got nuked by Nokia |
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| 03:07.38 | m_pahlevanzadeh | hi, |
| 03:08.22 | m_pahlevanzadeh | Alarm-clock doesn't any feature to change incremental to permanent playback |
| 03:08.54 | m_pahlevanzadeh | Also doesn't any feature to change time of playpack |
| 03:09.03 | m_pahlevanzadeh | how i change it? |
| 03:10.59 | m_pahlevanzadeh | I told it in development of maemo, and they said Alarm clock is not open source and CSSU must change its code. |
| 03:12.03 | m_pahlevanzadeh | I don't think change of its code is consuming..... |
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| 06:39.48 | freemangordon | merlin1991: well, I was wrong for apt, but camera-ui is deffinitely compiled with no optimizations |
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| 07:28.14 | kerio | freemangordon! hi! |
| 07:28.54 | freemangordon | kerio: hi |
| 07:34.38 | kerio | freemangordon: don't use exact versions in the metapackage! |
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| 08:15.47 | zeq | freemangordon: I've had absolutely no time lately. :( Have had some paid work though, which is good! What's been happening on the glibc/pthread front? Is it still waiting for me to implement a fallback? |
| 08:16.06 | zeq | s/pthread/pselect/ |
| 08:16.16 | zeq | I need to wake up! ;) |
| 08:17.25 | kerio | Pali: is pselect support in KP52? |
| 08:17.37 | Pali | kerio, I think no |
| 08:17.44 | kerio | add it plskthx |
| 08:17.45 | Pali | I did not get any patch |
| 08:17.48 | kerio | aww :( |
| 08:17.54 | kerio | zeq: patch to Pali plskthx |
| 08:18.25 | zeq | one moment |
| 08:20.15 | zeq | http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/sigmask/tif_restore_sigmask-syscalls-arm.patch |
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| 08:26.10 | Pali | ok, also I need provides name for deb package |
| 08:26.50 | kerio | zeq: kernel-feature-? |
| 08:27.01 | zeq | -sigmask? |
| 08:27.50 | zeq | or -pselect |
| 08:29.51 | zeq | The only reason against calling it kernel-feature-pselect is the other syscalls |
| 08:30.27 | Pali | so kernel-feature-sigmask should be ok? |
| 08:30.43 | Pali | or we have some packages now which depends on this provides? |
| 08:30.53 | kerio | Pali: nothing, so far |
| 08:31.03 | zeq | as far as I know nothing yet |
| 08:31.20 | kerio | and the future glibc will probably be patched in a way that it'll also "work" without the syscall |
| 08:31.47 | Pali | ok |
| 08:31.49 | zeq | glibc will probably be the only thing, and the consensus is as kerio notes thay we should have a fallback implemented |
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| 08:32.17 | zeq | that said it's still a good idea to have the dependency |
| 08:32.31 | Pali | ok, I will add kernel-feature-sigmask to kernel-power-flasher |
| 08:32.40 | zeq | the fallback would just be in case of user error |
| 08:33.05 | zeq | (installing an old kernel) |
| 08:34.36 | zeq | I haven't had time to work on it yet though |
| 08:35.08 | zeq | I've been running here a couple of months without a fallbak though, so it does definitely work :) |
| 08:38.36 | Pali | freemangordon, in bme changelog is written that bme communicate with DSME |
| 08:38.56 | Pali | we need to know what BME is sending to DSME, and it should be implemented in hald-addon-bme |
| 08:39.11 | kerio | problem: depending on the kernel feature means that you're depending on a flasher that was installed at some point in the past |
| 08:39.23 | kerio | and not necessarily on the feature in the kernel itself |
| 08:39.52 | zeq | not the running kernel you mean |
| 08:39.53 | kerio | for instance, if you update kernel-power-flasher and glibc |
| 08:39.57 | kerio | zeq: yeah |
| 08:40.05 | kerio | you end up fullfilling the dependencies |
| 08:40.06 | zeq | that's a good point |
| 08:40.22 | kerio | but anything you run between the end of the installation of the new glibc and the reboot can fail spectacularly |
| 08:40.32 | kerio | unless we provide a fallback |
| 08:40.36 | zeq | there needs to be a way to check the running kernel on pre-install |
| 08:40.41 | kerio | and HAM doesn't really have a nice way to do incremental updates for something like this |
| 08:40.47 | kerio | zeq: then you bork HAM updates |
| 08:41.22 | kerio | also, what do people that only have the bootitem do? |
| 08:41.28 | kerio | do they install fake packages? |
| 08:41.33 | zeq | apt must be able to check for runtime dependencies before installing a package? |
| 08:41.48 | kerio | apt is able, HAM is not going to be willing |
| 08:42.02 | kerio | HAM upgrades the system in bulk only |
| 08:42.22 | chem|st | o/ |
| 08:42.29 | kerio | zeq: providing a fallback is the only sensible solution |
| 08:42.42 | kerio | anyway, the same thing happens when installing cssu-thumb |
| 08:42.51 | kerio | if you don't have a thumby kernel already |
| 08:42.58 | zeq | yes, it's exactly the same issue |
| 08:43.01 | kerio | the kernel is installed and flashed together with all the packages |
| 08:43.24 | Pali | * Ignore ADC offset for BTEMP Fixes: NB#139328 - Battery temperature calculation needs to be changed. |
| 08:44.08 | Pali | reading that bug could be usefull for battery temperature formula |
| 08:44.47 | kerio | hai chem|st o/ |
| 08:45.28 | zeq | as long as the glibc is installed last it shouldn't be a problem, but it would be better to have a test binary with the glibc package to block install if it fails on the running kernel. |
| 08:45.42 | kerio | zeq: and hold off every HAM update? |
| 08:45.45 | zeq | a fallback is better though |
| 08:45.47 | Pali | * Disable BQ charging termination when in RD-mode to (temporarily) enable battery hot-swap for RD-purposes. Fixes: NB#142794 |
| 08:45.54 | kerio | perfectly fine by me, HAM is awful, but other people might object ;) |
| 08:46.00 | zeq | hold off all but kernel upgrade |
| 08:46.09 | kerio | it has to be done manually |
| 08:47.51 | zeq | One good thing is the kernel can be pushed straight away |
| 08:48.59 | zeq | maybe it's sufficient to just make it two-stage |
| 08:49.14 | kerio | it absolutely is, but it has to be done manually by the user |
| 08:49.39 | kerio | ...on the other hand, i doubt there are many things launched between the upgrade and the HAM reboot that depend on pselect |
| 08:50.19 | zeq | in *theory* there shouldn't be anything, that's the point of using HAM right? |
| 08:50.35 | zeq | in practice... |
| 08:50.37 | zeq | ? |
| 08:51.24 | kerio | hehehe |
| 09:42.55 | Pali | I found it, BME sending to DSME battery status (ok, empty) and charger status (connected, disconnected) |
| 09:43.13 | Pali | like batttest program (opensource, part of dsme) |
| 09:43.22 | Pali | freemangordon, ^^^^ |
| 09:43.36 | Pali | I will implement this into hald-addon-bme |
| 09:44.44 | kerio | Pali: have you found a good way of completely replacing bme? |
| 09:44.55 | Pali | I think yes |
| 09:45.06 | Pali | I will implement it and try it under qemu |
| 09:45.06 | kerio | does it involve moving binaries in preinst? |
| 09:45.16 | Pali | no |
| 09:45.22 | Pali | it will replace packages |
| 09:45.28 | kerio | hm |
| 09:45.41 | Pali | e.g installing new version of packages: bme-rx-51, hald-addon-bme, libbmeipc, ... |
| 09:46.26 | kerio | yay |
| 09:46.34 | kerio | well, i hope it's not actually called like that |
| 09:46.47 | kerio | otherwise it's going to be a bitch to distribute |
| 09:49.11 | kerio | Pali: do you have a repo for it yet? |
| 09:49.28 | Pali | no, it will not be in apt repository (yet) |
| 09:49.38 | Pali | replacing bme is critical part of system |
| 09:49.57 | Pali | and users should not do it without warning... |
| 09:50.36 | zeq | good stuff Pali :) |
| 09:51.26 | kerio | Pali: it should be in a repo though |
| 09:51.30 | kerio | your own repo! |
| 09:52.30 | Pali | and what, some brainless user will create HAM install file which integrate repository to system and other brainless users will click on it... |
| 09:52.48 | Pali | maybe there will be problem and they got MALF state |
| 09:53.21 | Pali | sorry I do not want to see "packages not working, it damaging n900..." |
| 09:54.08 | kerio | Pali: otoh, if you keep the same names then half of those could be upgraded |
| 09:54.09 | Pali | kerio, make decision only about yours programs... |
| 09:54.34 | Pali | why? you just upgrade all packages |
| 09:54.38 | Pali | dpkg -i package1 |
| 09:54.42 | Pali | dpkg -i package2 |
| 09:54.50 | Pali | this working fine... |
| 09:55.00 | kerio | Pali: yeah but what if, say, CSSU ships a libbmeipc upgrade? |
| 09:55.25 | Pali | kerio, first ask cssu people about it |
| 09:55.40 | Pali | and I'm not maintainer of cssu and cssu apt repository |
| 09:55.59 | Pali | kerio, you are not too |
| 09:56.03 | kerio | Pali: if you keep the same name, *your* package is going to be uninstalled when the package with the same name is upgraded |
| 09:56.16 | kerio | no, i'm talking from the user's perspective here |
| 09:56.37 | Pali | what? package is uninstalled when is installed??? |
| 09:57.01 | kerio | Pali: user downloads your .debs, installs them, everything works fine |
| 09:57.12 | Pali | so where is problem? |
| 09:57.14 | kerio | your debs are just upgrades to the current packages, right? |
| 09:57.20 | Pali | yes |
| 09:57.34 | kerio | then, CSSU ships an upgrade to libbmeipc |
| 09:57.41 | Pali | WTF? |
| 09:57.49 | kerio | you can't say it can't happen |
| 09:57.51 | Pali | why?? |
| 09:57.58 | Pali | this never happends |
| 09:57.59 | kerio | i don't fucking know, but it could happen |
| 09:58.12 | Pali | nobody will not touch any closed source library of bme |
| 09:58.21 | Pali | and why somebody will shit it?? |
| 09:58.35 | kerio | since the package has the same name, it's effectively the same package in apt's eyes, so if the new version is higher than yours, it gets updated - and it stops working, because it expects the real bme |
| 09:59.05 | kerio | keeping the same name, if it's not a real upgrade, is not a good idea |
| 09:59.14 | Pali | kerio, sorry, but stop talking shits... |
| 09:59.15 | kerio | yours is a replacement, it should be a replacement |
| 09:59.27 | kerio | ie: Conflict and Provide the old package |
| 09:59.29 | kerio | with a different name |
| 09:59.38 | Pali | if some day cssu will have something for bme it will be this replacement... |
| 10:00.13 | Pali | I do not see reason why cssu should wirting other/new bme replacement which will be different that my prepared packages |
| 10:00.33 | Pali | and plus it will be in conflict with my packages |
| 10:01.18 | Pali | sorry, but this is nonsense what you are writing kerio |
| 10:01.46 | kerio | Pali: someone finds a nasty bug in libbmeipc0, and it can be fixed by hex editing, so they release 0.8.55+0m5+0cssu1 |
| 10:02.07 | Pali | yes, they release "0.8.55+something" |
| 10:02.13 | kerio | ok, that's kind of a bad example, it'll probably be lower than your version |
| 10:02.17 | Pali | they will not release "1.0" |
| 10:02.25 | kerio | but your solution is quite not future-proof |
| 10:02.43 | Pali | sorry, but NOBODY will be looking for bugs in BME |
| 10:02.53 | kerio | you can't know that! |
| 10:02.53 | Pali | it has a lot of bugs in design |
| 10:03.12 | kerio | calling your replacement with the same name is just a flat-out lie |
| 10:03.54 | Pali | ok, I'm going coding... |
| 10:03.56 | Pali | bye |
| 10:04.05 | kerio | oh ffs |
| 10:04.16 | kerio | bye :( |
| 10:06.21 | kerio | gregoa: lil' help? |
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| 11:20.49 | freemangordon | zeq, Pali: glibc depending on kernel feature if fallback is implemented makes no sense |
| 11:20.57 | freemangordon | zeq: BTW hi :) |
| 11:21.03 | freemangordon | nice you're back |
| 11:22.30 | kerio | freemangordon: yeah, the idea is just to provide the fallback |
| 11:22.42 | kerio | to avoid problems during the upgrade |
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| 11:48.07 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu is Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.1; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo4.1 || READ!!: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 |
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| 14:03.08 | zeq | hi freemangordon |
| 14:33.55 | merlin1991 | kerio: well Pali is 100% right, cssu will never touch the bme related packages in their current form, it is a closed source crap thing after all |
| 14:34.52 | kerio | merlin1991: that's not the point |
| 14:35.25 | kerio | it's a completely different package, it should have a different name |
| 14:36.00 | Pali | and what to do with bme files now? |
| 14:36.03 | kerio | again, i'll wait for gregoa's advice on this |
| 14:36.15 | Pali | I will delete original and copy my bme init file? |
| 14:36.17 | kerio | Pali: a different package that conflicts and provides those packages |
| 14:36.31 | merlin1991 | we have no proper support for conflicts in ham |
| 14:36.41 | kerio | merlin1991: this is something that people will have to dpkg -i anyway |
| 14:37.02 | merlin1991 | kerio: you just invalidated your "have and apt repo" stance |
| 14:37.17 | kerio | yeah, that's a different thing |
| 14:41.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | packages of same name should provide compatible API, not only border API but also internal |
| 14:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | my 2 €ct |
| 14:43.00 | Pali | libbmeipc - will provide *same* API |
| 14:43.17 | Pali | hald-addon-bme - provide all *same* API as orignal closed source |
| 14:43.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly you can't go for "A2, B2, C2 replace A, B, C, and the former 3 play nice together, not though with mixing them with any of latter 3" |
| 14:44.20 | Pali | orignal nokia bme-rx-51 package provides: bme daemon and upstart script which spawn bme daemon |
| 14:44.41 | Pali | new package will provide also upstart script, but without daemon |
| 14:44.58 | Pali | sorry, but I do not want to create something like dpkg-divert ...... |
| 14:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the problem is (aiui) that new bme-rx-51 will not work with old libbmeipc? |
| 14:46.23 | kerio | to be fair the new bme-replacement shouldn't even provide bme-rx-51 |
| 14:46.34 | Pali | new bme-rx-51 package will contains only upstart script which will not use bmeipc |
| 14:46.35 | freemangordon | kerio: it won;t provide |
| 14:46.41 | freemangordon | it will be |
| 14:46.44 | kerio | nothing depends or rdepends on bme-rx-51 |
| 14:47.05 | freemangordon | kerio: and what is the way to uninstall an installed package? |
| 14:47.07 | Pali | and what will you do? HAM conflicts does not working... |
| 14:47.25 | kerio | you said you'll only ship packages anyway, right? dpkg -i |
| 14:47.37 | freemangordon | kerio: trolling mode again? |
| 14:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't see trolling |
| 14:48.01 | Pali | kerio, more packages depends on bme-rx-51 !!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 14:48.03 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: seems we have a different criteria |
| 14:48.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a valid concern how to package that stuff |
| 14:48.08 | kerio | Pali: which ones? |
| 14:48.14 | Pali | grep bme -R /etc |
| 14:48.18 | Pali | dsme |
| 14:48.20 | Pali | rcS |
| 14:48.23 | kerio | apt-cache rdepends bme-rx-51 showed JACK SHIT |
| 14:48.37 | kerio | (well, it showed mp-fremantle-generic-pr, but that's outdated anyway) |
| 14:48.47 | Pali | more upstart scripts depends on bme |
| 14:48.52 | freemangordon | Pali: leave that |
| 14:48.59 | Pali | and if you delete it then system will not boot |
| 14:49.01 | Pali | ok |
| 14:49.05 | Pali | bye |
| 14:49.08 | *** part/#maemo-ssu Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 14:49.11 | kerio | no, fuck you |
| 14:49.14 | kerio | gaaaaah |
| 14:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: please!! |
| 14:49.36 | kerio | please what? he's being a child |
| 14:50.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems yesterdays productive mood left no reserves for today |
| 14:50.11 | merlin1991 | kerio: as far as I see you were the one with swearwords and a general scream towards him |
| 14:50.19 | merlin1991 | s/words/word/ |
| 14:50.30 | freemangordon | merlin1991: did you see my note re camera-ui? |
| 14:51.05 | freemangordon | I am going to implement proper packaging and .launch stuff |
| 14:51.36 | merlin1991 | I'd just ask nicolai about -O flags before you add them |
| 14:51.57 | freemangordon | merlin1991: why? |
| 14:52.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I anticipated problems on packaging/shipping of bme replacement. It's messing with system on a lot of distinct levels |
| 14:52.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and doing a partial "messing" will render your system FUBAR |
| 14:52.32 | freemangordon | merlin1991: look at debian/rules and src/Makefile |
| 14:52.53 | freemangordon | it is deffinitely a bug |
| 14:53.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | only (deprecated) way I see now is a MP |
| 14:53.30 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: okay |
| 14:53.35 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: just mark the package as essential |
| 14:53.42 | kerio | apt will throw a fuss before removing it willfully |
| 14:53.54 | freemangordon | merlin1991: not to say that -dbg package contains debug build, not debug symbols ;) |
| 14:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: how's that helping on shipping a flock of packages that depend on each other, conflict with several system packages, and should be optional? |
| 14:54.51 | kerio | oh, i meant in general |
| 14:54.58 | kerio | apt-get remove bme will work fine |
| 14:55.10 | *** join/#maemo-ssu SpacedOut (david@SubSpace.fries.net) |
| 14:55.27 | kerio | without doing the "type 'yes, do as i say'" thing |
| 14:55.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but will not get us any proper working replacement for bme |
| 14:55.52 | merlin1991 | freemangordon: btw about .launch, does it mean our camera-ui didn't use the .launch magic at all? |
| 14:56.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | since we need replace bme (by bq24150.ko), AND libbmeipc, AND hald-addon-bme, AND several other bits like upstart scripts/whatnot |
| 14:56.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | all *same* time |
| 14:57.24 | merlin1991 | anybody got the wiki page regarding .launch files handy? |
| 14:57.30 | merlin1991 | fails @ wiki search |
| 14:57.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | errr, .launch files? |
| 14:57.54 | merlin1991 | the whole maemo-launcher madness |
| 14:57.59 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah but it ends up being a replacement of three packages |
| 14:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so what? |
| 14:58.32 | kerio | one completely detached from the dependency system (bme-rx-51), and the other two a bit more so |
| 14:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: tbh nfc about maemo-launcher |
| 14:59.21 | kerio | ooh, osso-systemui-actingdead depends on hald-addon-bme |
| 14:59.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: is it related to mime-types etc? |
| 15:01.18 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: nope it is related to having several process share libraries through 1 master spawn process |
| 15:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah that stuff |
| 15:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah now my brain found a working synapse to process your words |
| 15:02.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 15:02.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | is maemo-launcher FOSS? |
| 15:03.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. if we got sources, I'd guess that's as good as it gets about documentation |
| 15:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff |
| 15:14.48 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: you don't need to spam your general notice all the time :D |
| 15:15.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe not in this chan anymore |
| 15:15.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | in #maemo however it seems we get another bitching every 12h at least |
| 15:16.24 | *** join/#maemo-ssu NIN101 (~NIN@p5DD292FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:16.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd love to make a bot spam the general notice whenever * joins channel |
| 15:17.46 | merlin1991 | that would be +b && kick material ;) |
| 15:18.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I already whould've set up an autoresponder if only I knew the proper regex to match service msgs like those |
| 15:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 15:19.33 | merlin1991 | doesn't chanserv have a feature to send a notice onjoin? |
| 15:20.05 | *** part/#maemo-ssu merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 15:20.07 | *** join/#maemo-ssu merlin1991 (~merlin@Maemo/community/cssu/merlin1991) |
| 15:20.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think so, yes |
| 15:21.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas it's not linked to the channel, so usually goes unnoticed on most clients |
| 15:21.49 | merlin1991 | yeah, it ususally ends up in the current open buffer |
| 15:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | right |
| 15:22.35 | kerio | it's because most irc clients are stupid |
| 15:22.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | useless if your client does several autojoins |
| 15:22.42 | kerio | and can't handle NOTICEs |
| 15:22.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope |
| 15:23.04 | *** join/#maemo-ssu toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 15:23.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's because [notice] isn't linked to a particular channel |
| 15:23.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that which gets sent by chanserv, aiui |
| 15:23.36 | merlin1991 | kerio: notice on protocoll level only goes to a user |
| 15:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's of same class like christel's (global notice] |
| 15:24.05 | merlin1991 | hm actually seems to work targeted on a channel too |
| 15:24.17 | kerio | merlin1991: yeah, but it's still annoying :) |
| 15:24.23 | kerio | almost as bad as CTCP to a channel |
| 15:24.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's either targeted at a channel, or at a user |
| 15:24.45 | Skry | oh please :D |
| 15:24.46 | merlin1991 | yeah that's the main problem you can't target it at a user in a channel |
| 15:24.51 | merlin1991 | remembered |
| 15:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | when targeted at user, it's losing any relation to a particular channel |
| 15:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | so irc client has no means to sort it to related buffer |
| 15:25.38 | Raimu | Bling! Bling! |
| 15:25.49 | kerio | wtf, lizardo? |
| 15:25.55 | kerio | you're 6 minutes ahead of your correct time |
| 15:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, we got channel ctcp enabled here??? |
| 15:26.29 | merlin1991 | also wtf kerio stop the ctcp madness |
| 15:26.35 | kerio | i did *one* ctcp time |
| 15:26.50 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 15:27.13 | merlin1991 | hm what's the flag to disable channel ctcp? |
| 15:27.19 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+C] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 15:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope this one (a guess) |
| 15:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | lower case c is color afaik |
| 15:28.23 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yep |
| 15:28.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | yoh |
| 15:28.33 | kerio | hopes it doesn't block actions |
| 15:28.37 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 15:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 15:28.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's set in #maemo since ages |
| 15:30.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: if you feel like doing sth useful, NOW you might try to send another CTCP |
| 15:30.48 | kerio | can't send to channel |
| 15:30.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | demonstrates action meanwhile |
| 15:30.52 | kerio | yep |
| 15:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks |
| 15:31.12 | merlin1991 | hm why do we have +p on here actually? |
| 15:31.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf +p? |
| 15:31.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | private? |
| 15:31.35 | kerio | hrmpf, why isn't gregoa here? he's in my timezone |
| 15:31.39 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 15:32.02 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: p is "do not show up in whois query channel list unless you're also in the channel" |
| 15:32.04 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-p] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 15:32.22 | kerio | merlin1991: i think it's enabled by default on freenode |
| 15:32.24 | kerio | or should be enabled by default, at least |
| 15:32.29 | kerio | eeeek, my privates! |
| 15:33.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think freenode never shows channels of others that you (the one who does /whois) are not in |
| 15:34.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | /whois infobot |
| 15:35.05 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: yep, true freenode seems to censore the whois channel list |
| 15:35.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway o/ |
| 15:35.41 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o DocScrutinizer05] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 15:36.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | c u l8r |
| 15:36.14 | merlin1991 | bb |
| 15:36.27 | kerio | cya |
| 15:36.41 | kerio | god, we sound 13 |
| 15:37.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1337 |
| 15:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | SMS I get sometimes are way worse. with all that xxx and whatnot stuff |
| 15:39.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | burps and waves again |
| 15:40.20 | merlin1991 | goes into full 1337 mode, s33 y4 d0c |
| 15:50.39 | dafox | hi all. Quick question: I recently updated my phone to the latest cssu, which seems to have replaced busybox (eg. I am now missing 'diff'). I read on tmo that I should just apt-get reinstall the busybox-power package. However when I try that I get a scary message complaining about md5 sums on the busybox executable. Is it safe to proceed with this reinstall or is there a different method I should use? |
| 15:51.00 | kerio | dafox: yeah, it's safe to proceed |
| 15:51.10 | dafox | ok, thanks :) |
| 15:51.15 | kerio | dafox: you'll have an /opt/busybox you can remove afterwards, but it's harmless |
| 15:51.37 | kerio | to be extra certain of that, try running /opt/busybox-power/busybox.original and check the version string |
| 15:51.44 | kerio | it should be something+0cssu0 |
| 15:52.47 | dafox | the original says 'Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-losso30+0m5" |
| 15:53.04 | kerio | yep, that's fine |
| 15:53.47 | dafox | there doesn't seem to be any /opt/busybox though |
| 15:53.53 | kerio | hm |
| 15:54.06 | kerio | idk |
| 15:54.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | 13.08.0112 03:07:21 network_service_status clear cell name |
| 15:54.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | 13.08.0112 03:07:21 operator_code clear cell name |
| 15:54.10 | kerio | anyway, what does /bin/busybox say? |
| 15:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | still fuckedup date! |
| 15:54.24 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, the fuckedup date is everywhere i think |
| 15:54.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, everywhere |
| 15:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | just examples |
| 15:54.52 | dafox | kerio: that one says "Debian 1.20.0power1" |
| 15:54.57 | kerio | hm |
| 15:55.01 | kerio | that should be correct |
| 15:55.01 | dafox | and 'diff' seems to work now |
| 15:55.16 | dafox | so I guess regular busybox got auto-uninstalled |
| 15:55.23 | kerio | you should upgrade busybox-power though |
| 15:55.30 | kerio | dafox: no, busybox-power does a weird replacement |
| 15:55.38 | kerio | because it modifies a system binary |
| 15:56.24 | dafox | aha, ok, then I don't know where it is, or if /opt/busybox was ever there |
| 15:56.45 | kerio | no, /opt/busybox is where the old version should've ended up |
| 15:56.48 | kerio | because there was a new one |
| 15:56.56 | kerio | but regardless, i might be mistaken on that |
| 15:57.09 | kerio | busybox.original is the correct version, busybox.power is the correct version too |
| 15:57.14 | kerio | although it's oudated, you should upgrade it |
| 15:57.45 | dafox | ok, how do I upgrade it though? I just (re)installed it, shouldn't it be at the correct version now? |
| 15:57.57 | kerio | you said it's at 1.20.0 |
| 15:58.04 | kerio | apt-cache policy busybox-power |
| 15:58.10 | kerio | the current version is 1.20.2 iirc |
| 15:58.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafox: you're aware that a proper bash install plus gnu-utils will serve better purpose than busybox-power? |
| 15:58.22 | kerio | yep |
| 15:58.32 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no swapon with priority |
| 15:58.35 | kerio | so it won't |
| 15:58.40 | kerio | just sayin' |
| 15:58.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | get swapon (I said get gnu-utils) |
| 15:59.42 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: what's the package name? |
| 15:59.55 | merlin1991 | dafox: if you're not on the current version of bb-power a simple apt-get install busybox-power will update to the current version |
| 16:00.00 | dafox | DocScrutinizer05: no, why? I installed busybox-power quite some time ago, because it seemed to be the most light-weight option (I haven't really needed the power of a full bash-shell on my phone yet) |
| 16:00.15 | kerio | dafox: because he's a grumpy, grouchy guy |
| 16:00.31 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Sc0rpius (~naikel@190.201.107.179) |
| 16:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | because user shells shouldn't mess with system shell, and should live in 7opt |
| 16:00.48 | kerio | merlin1991: hm, i think that if he used --reinstall it'll reinstall the old version |
| 16:00.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:01.12 | merlin1991 | kerio: that's why I said install |
| 16:01.16 | merlin1991 | without --reinstall |
| 16:01.28 | merlin1991 | --reinstall preserves the previous version |
| 16:02.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafox: if you're concerned about lightweight, a proper user shell in /opt is the better alternative for sure |
| 16:02.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you want to use the power of bb-p in bootscripts |
| 16:03.13 | dafox | I'm more concerned with run-time lightweight actually :) |
| 16:03.25 | kerio | dafox: install the thumby one! |
| 16:04.05 | dafox | yes, I've heard positive things about that experiment, but I'm a bit afraid to mess up my phone :P |
| 16:04.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | run-time lightweight nothing beats a dedicated shell-only-shell with distinct binaries that get loaded only when needed |
| 16:04.47 | dafox | (I think you're talking about the recompile-with-new-compiler-something-something thingy, right?) |
| 16:04.56 | kerio | dafox: and with a different instruction set, yes |
| 16:05.06 | kerio | you free a bunch of space on the rootfs |
| 16:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafox: (mess up phone) sound rationale, cssu-thumb is very experimental still |
| 16:05.23 | kerio | but yeah, there are some problems |
| 16:05.25 | dafox | ok, so application-manager says there are no updates, I'm going to try the direct apt-get install now |
| 16:05.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | WAAAAIT! |
| 16:05.52 | kerio | dafox: btw, is extras-devel enabled? |
| 16:06.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: busybox-power is a user package |
| 16:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | dafox: HAM needs several minutes to update screen |
| 16:06.20 | dafox | I know... |
| 16:06.40 | dafox | there is this spinning circle type thing that indicates it's done though? |
| 16:06.50 | kerio | dafox: eeeh, not always |
| 16:06.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | messing things up by using a mixedpickles set of apt-get * commands won't serve you well |
| 16:07.02 | kerio | wait for idle cpu |
| 16:07.31 | dafox | I learn great new things about this awesome application manager I come here |
| 16:07.36 | dafox | *every time |
| 16:07.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-P |
| 16:08.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually it improved a tad in new cssu version |
| 16:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 16:08.29 | merlin1991 | dafox: the best way to know that ham has finished ist to use top |
| 16:08.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g we got rif of friggin "use PC Suite..." BS warning |
| 16:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | rid* |
| 16:08.46 | merlin1991 | if there is any apt-worker process eating your cpu ham is still working |
| 16:09.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: nah, cpu load applet, a must-have |
| 16:09.00 | dafox | ok, so ssu-devel is currently disabled. I only enable it when I want to install a specific application which has no 'stable' or 'testing' counterpart, which I think is the advice here too? |
| 16:09.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 16:09.46 | dafox | but I think you want me to install the busybox-power from ssu-devel? |
| 16:09.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | though it's not the recommendation for cssu-devel |
| 16:09.59 | kerio | no, no |
| 16:10.01 | kerio | extras-devel |
| 16:10.04 | merlin1991 | there is no busybox power in cssu-devel |
| 16:10.07 | kerio | busybox-power is in extras-devel |
| 16:10.16 | dafox | ok, that one is/was disabled too |
| 16:10.25 | dafox | enabling now |
| 16:11.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually when you're concerned about "bricking your phone" you should delete cssu-devel repo/catalog |
| 16:11.42 | kerio | cssu-devel is as bleeding-edge as possible |
| 16:11.46 | dafox | DocScrutinizer05: yes, but then I don't get some applications that I do like :) |
| 16:11.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, which ones? |
| 16:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't know we got any leete new apps in cssu-devel |
| 16:12.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | in cssu-devel *only* |
| 16:13.23 | dafox | mm, from the top of my head? I'm not sure exactly, there were some though |
| 16:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-devel is not like extras-devel |
| 16:13.41 | dafox | the infra-red-remote app maybe? |
| 16:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah |
| 16:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | unrelated to CSSU |
| 16:14.20 | kerio | community-devel is now completely in sync with community-testing anyway |
| 16:14.27 | dafox | DocScrutinizer05: I think I may be confusing cssu-devel and extras-devel then :) |
| 16:14.31 | kerio | i think |
| 16:14.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm sure you did |
| 16:14.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I'm emphasizing it |
| 16:14.56 | kerio | merlin1991: do the packages in cssu-t go through the autobuilder? |
| 16:15.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-devel IS NOT extras-devel |
| 16:15.05 | merlin1991 | kerio: no |
| 16:15.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | not a bit similar |
| 16:15.24 | kerio | merlin1991: so are the cssu-t packages bit-by-bit the same as the cssu-d packages with the same version? |
| 16:15.31 | kerio | i mean, the installed files |
| 16:15.40 | merlin1991 | probably not |
| 16:15.44 | kerio | D: |
| 16:15.53 | kerio | are they functionally equivalent at least? |
| 16:15.57 | merlin1991 | they are built from the same source |
| 16:16.00 | kerio | alright |
| 16:17.08 | dafox | oh boy, now there are a bunch of packages wih upfates |
| 16:17.21 | kerio | dafox: hahaha |
| 16:17.33 | kerio | pierogi updates *a lot* |
| 16:17.54 | dafox | I'll install just the busybox one, for now |
| 16:18.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: would you advise/help me to set up a repo-sanitize.install file, similar to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install ? |
| 16:18.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | for cssu-t and cssu-s |
| 16:19.13 | kerio | what do you mean sanitize? |
| 16:19.45 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: well you can get the entries from http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing-fremantle.install and http://repository.maemo.org/community/community-fremantle.install |
| 16:19.52 | merlin1991 | but there is no point whatsoever in doing that |
| 16:20.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, since those are the files I planned to prepare ;-D |
| 16:20.43 | dafox | ok, now busybox-power is at version 1.20.2power1, is that the correct one? |
| 16:20.59 | kerio | dafox: you just upgraded it, it's the latest version |
| 16:21.25 | merlin1991 | yep 1.20.2power1 is the latest version |
| 16:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ...apart from all those .install are never cleaning up existing repos |
| 16:22.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 16:22.14 | dafox | ok, cool. thanks, I think everything is ok now then :) |
| 16:22.16 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you can clean up existing repos? how? |
| 16:22.22 | kerio | (with .install files, i mean) |
| 16:22.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | did I say that? |
| 16:22.36 | dafox | I'll wait for the other updates to trickle into -testing |
| 16:24.20 | dafox | oh, I see 'batterypatch' is still in there. I installed that off some guide once, does that one actually work? I later heard some conflicting reports... |
| 16:24.27 | kerio | eeeew |
| 16:24.41 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, you didn't say that |
| 16:24.58 | merlin1991 | dafox: batterypatch is evil, though afaik removing it doesn't really help |
| 16:26.50 | dafox | so I'd best leave it alone then? (no harm eitherway?) |
| 16:27.15 | merlin1991 | well harm (if any) was done already |
| 16:28.00 | dafox | ok |
| 16:40.32 | gregoa | kerio: I'm back home, if you still have a question where you think I might be able to help with. (I quickly skimmed over the backlog but was confused) |
| 16:40.38 | kerio | gregoa: ohai |
| 16:41.09 | kerio | gregoa: we need to replace three important packages with replacements that work in a completely different way |
| 16:41.57 | kerio | the two that matter most are hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc0 |
| 16:42.13 | kerio | they'll be replaced by some things with the same API |
| 16:42.34 | kerio | and bme-rx-51 which will be replaced by something weird and unrelated, and that it's going to be required by the replacement of hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc0 |
| 16:42.54 | gregoa | sounds like fun :) |
| 16:43.15 | kerio | indeed |
| 16:43.21 | gregoa | kerio: http://wiki.debian.org/Renaming_a_Package might be a good starting place |
| 16:44.25 | kerio | the weird thing is that it's not exactly a package rename - these are not more recent versions |
| 16:44.48 | gregoa | additionally: Breaks is newer than Conflicts, no idea if apt or HAM in maemo understand it. - and Provides can't have a version so this doesn't work for versioned rdeps |
| 16:45.28 | kerio | well, there's only one version of those three things anyway |
| 16:45.57 | gregoa | well, it's not a rename, but this page sums it up best. - of course the authoritative source is debian policy but there you have to dig through various sections. |
| 16:46.35 | gregoa | and this only works for apt, of course not for manual installs with dpkg (since dependency resolving is on the higher level) |
| 16:46.47 | kerio | yeah, yeah |
| 16:47.04 | kerio | dpkg handles stuff like conflicts, right? |
| 16:47.12 | kerio | it just doesn't handle the fetching of packages to fulfill deps |
| 16:48.26 | gregoa | dpkg "just" unpacks packages and then whines when a necessary dependency is not there or when it would overwrite files or .. yes, also on conflicts, I suppose |
| 16:49.13 | kerio | my main gripe with Pali's idea (the dude that's working on the actual coding for this) is that calling bme-rx-51 something that's clearly *not* bme-rx-51 is a flat-out lie |
| 16:50.22 | gregoa | you mean keeping the package name / using the same package name with totally different contents? |
| 16:50.26 | kerio | yep |
| 16:51.02 | kerio | well, actually for hald-addon-bme and libbmeipc0 the contents are going to be the same, or at least very similar |
| 16:51.10 | kerio | i mean, they're going to be the same files |
| 16:51.12 | gregoa | well, if it's a lie or not is not really a technical question :) |
| 16:51.14 | kerio | a daemon, and a library |
| 16:51.29 | kerio | but those will do their thing in a completely different way |
| 16:51.49 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean (~arcean@aadd45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:51.50 | kerio | i mean, just saying "maemo 5 is a mess anyway" sounds like an admission of failure |
| 16:52.14 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean (~arcean@aadd45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:53.00 | gregoa | I see your point, but maybe it might be technically easier than messing with a new transational package etc., especially given how silly HAM is. - don't know in this case, just a thought |
| 16:53.28 | merlin1991 | gregoa: that's the whole point :D |
| 16:53.29 | kerio | yeah, HAM is a whole different bag of bullshit :( |
| 16:54.14 | gregoa | merlin1991: I guessed so :) |
| 16:54.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | A, B, C are a triangle of dependencies, and while all three new packages have same API/ABI to "outside" of the triangle, the API inside, between A and C, and B and C, and A and B, are NOT compatible to the old versions of either of the 3 packages |
| 16:54.39 | gregoa | kerio: one could argue that the functionality is the same (if it is) even if the contents is different, as an argument for keeping the name |
| 16:55.17 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, you can just depend on a version >= than $foo |
| 16:55.29 | kerio | gregoa: mind you, this is all optional |
| 16:55.36 | kerio | and it's going to be optional for a while at the very least |
| 16:55.49 | kerio | hrmpf, pali is still angry at me :( |
| 16:56.39 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: they're actually not a triangle of dependencies, according to what dpkg sees |
| 16:57.08 | kerio | no, actually hald-addon-bme depends on libbmeipc0 |
| 16:57.32 | kerio | i don't know if the replacement of hald-addon-bme will depend on the replacement of libbmeipc0 though |
| 17:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so does this change the basic rationale? |
| 17:09.21 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i'd like to see how the stuff works first |
| 17:18.48 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dhbiker (~dhbiker@95.87.145.172) |
| 17:19.15 | dhbiker | hi there... i have a bit of a problem with the latest testing CSSU |
| 17:19.25 | dhbiker | i updated the operatorname widget |
| 17:19.29 | dhbiker | waited for an hour |
| 17:19.33 | dhbiker | and then updated CSSU |
| 17:19.36 | dhbiker | after reboot |
| 17:19.44 | dhbiker | i cant connect to internet |
| 17:19.49 | dhbiker | says no connections availible |
| 17:20.14 | dhbiker | any clue why it happens ? |
| 17:37.04 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Pali (~pali@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 17:49.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the internet connections that you'd expect to see available/active? |
| 17:49.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E. do you have automatic GPRS, WiFi? (anything else? ;-D ) |
| 17:50.23 | dhbiker | i have wifi |
| 17:50.31 | dhbiker | and GPRS + MMS |
| 17:50.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW is is just your WiFi that's failing? or GPRS also? |
| 17:50.44 | dhbiker | both |
| 17:50.58 | merlin1991 | do you have a syslog? |
| 17:50.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you can't even manually select them anymore? |
| 17:51.08 | dhbiker | i cant select anything |
| 17:51.15 | dhbiker | everything dissapears |
| 17:51.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm |
| 17:51.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's pretty weird |
| 17:51.33 | dhbiker | but under settings -> network connections i can see them |
| 17:51.41 | merlin1991 | dhbiker: those settings are cached |
| 17:51.46 | dhbiker | oh |
| 17:52.08 | freemangordon | merlin1991: new camera-ui |
| 17:52.15 | freemangordon | on gitorious that is |
| 17:52.26 | merlin1991 | gtg, hopefully someone else can help you dhbiker |
| 17:52.28 | kerio | what are we going to do with the camera-ui? |
| 17:52.56 | freemangordon | it is now -O2 compiled and uses maemo-invoker |
| 17:53.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | eat it for dinner (where /me should be since 3 h) |
| 17:53.25 | kerio | i mean, are we keeping nicocam as the official cssu camera application? |
| 17:53.34 | kerio | are we going to ship it but keep it optional? are we going to make it completely optional in HAM? |
| 17:53.44 | kerio | will the old camera-ui be uninstallable? |
| 17:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: you had something like auto-disconnect installed? You've seen merlin1991 asking for a syslog? |
| 18:00.26 | dhbiker | DocScrutinizer05: i restored that backup again |
| 18:00.40 | dhbiker | and no i dont have any auto disconnect installed |
| 18:02.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't see much in changelog T4.1->T5.1 that might cause your problem. maybe osso-wlan, but I wouldn't know how |
| 18:04.02 | freemangordon | hmm, using maemo-invoker deffinitely makes things to appear faster |
| 18:04.50 | freemangordon | kerio: camera-ui -thumb is in the repo, you may want to try it |
| 18:05.08 | dhbiker | sucks to be me then i guess |
| 18:05.26 | kerio | freemangordon: oh, the new one? neat |
| 18:05.47 | freemangordon | yep, 50k less in /root |
| 18:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | dhbiker: hang on, maybe merlin1991knows some advice |
| 18:05.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | or somebody else |
| 18:06.50 | dhbiker | ill update tomorrow |
| 18:06.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders wtf camera-ui needs to live in root - just saying |
| 18:06.53 | dhbiker | again |
| 18:07.03 | dhbiker | and upload syslog somewhere |
| 18:07.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | good plan |
| 18:08.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | o/ |
| 18:12.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: there are 2 complaints about h-e-n failing in PK51 |
| 18:12.36 | kerio | freemangordon: snapped a picture |
| 18:12.39 | kerio | A++ would snap again |
| 18:13.21 | kerio | (camera-ui 1.1.29.2+0cssu14+thumb0 confirmed working - and i made sure to kill the old camera-ui resident process) |
| 18:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ooh fun, you already answered - "h-e-n doesn't work anymore? try usbmode!" |
| 18:14.24 | Pali | I need to know if problems is in scripts or kernel |
| 18:14.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: do you plan to fade out kernel support for h-e-n in favour of new way to do hostmode? |
| 18:14.49 | Pali | there is same kernel support |
| 18:15.03 | Pali | both using same API |
| 18:15.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are same scripts in h-e-n, since ages |
| 18:15.24 | Pali | there was update to hen |
| 18:16.00 | Pali | also, with usb host mode there is problem with gadget drivers |
| 18:16.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, like 6 months ago, to include better booston which has been "tested" since a year without problems |
| 18:16.31 | kerio | hm, is it meaningful to keep gadget drivers loaded while host mode is on? |
| 18:16.37 | Pali | I fixed more problems (with my usb disks), that I rmmod & modprobe g_file_storage |
| 18:17.07 | Pali | my usb devices does not work without loaded gadget driver |
| 18:25.38 | freemangordon | kerio: does it start faster? |
| 18:25.53 | kerio | freemangordon: it feels faster, yeah |
| 18:26.02 | kerio | but i don't know if it's just suggestion |
| 18:27.36 | kerio | h-e-n confirmed working in kp51r1 |
| 18:29.15 | kerio | hm, i'm getting weird messages about "port 1 not reset yet" in dmesg |
| 18:29.24 | kerio | and then they stopped with "usb usb1: bus auto-suspend" |
| 18:29.26 | kerio | after closing h-e-n |
| 18:29.28 | kerio | is that intended? |
| 18:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I guess auto-suspend is ok, yes |
| 18:51.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc about "port 1 not reset yet" |
| 18:52.14 | kerio | hm, g_ether appears to be really dumb |
| 18:52.19 | kerio | and awful |
| 18:52.25 | *** join/#maemo-ssu nox-- (noident@p5798DACD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:03.36 | *** join/#maemo-ssu nox- (noident@freebsd/developer/nox) |
| 19:39.23 | *** join/#maemo-ssu dafox (~dafox@ip51cc571d.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:42.57 | *** join/#maemo-ssu toxaris (~toxaris@s83-180-246-172.cust.tele2.se) |
| 19:53.43 | kerio | freemangordon: btw, where are my updates brah |
| 20:13.14 | *** join/#maemo-ssu luf (~luf@ip-89-103-223-164.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 20:13.51 | luf | kerio: why do you think your N900 rebooted due to obexd? |
| 20:14.58 | kerio | huh? |
| 20:14.59 | kerio | no |
| 20:15.00 | kerio | i rebooted it |
| 20:18.30 | luf | 00:24 - kerio: i bet it's obexd's fault |
| 20:18.38 | kerio | that the icon for my MMC went missing |
| 20:18.47 | kerio | and no, i don't strongly believe that |
| 20:18.53 | kerio | but it was one of the few updates that i'd done |
| 20:19.05 | kerio | anyway, a reboot fixed that, and HAM would've updated anyway |
| 20:19.07 | luf | No problem. I just ask if I may hunting something ;) |
| 20:19.08 | kerio | so i can't complain |
| 20:19.13 | kerio | nah, don't worry |
| 20:19.31 | kerio | what's the big deal with the new obexd? |
| 20:19.37 | kerio | proper carkit support? |
| 20:20.19 | luf | Better carkit support. |
| 20:20.56 | luf | Or againist obexd-18 in maemo even PBAP and IrMC support :) |
| 20:21.14 | luf | s/obexd-18/obexd-0.18/ |
| 20:23.15 | *** join/#maemo-ssu xmlich02 (~imlich@2001:67c:1220:80c:1c:7069:498e:f9ec) |
| 20:32.41 | freemangordon | kerio: -thumb HAM is in the repo |
| 20:32.52 | kerio | :D |
| 20:32.57 | freemangordon | 1:2.2.72-5+thumb0 |
| 20:33.20 | kerio | hm, weird, no 0cssu0 for that one? |
| 20:33.55 | freemangordon | kerio: yeah, cssu is upstream |
| 20:34.05 | kerio | hm |
| 20:34.17 | freemangordon | the same for h-d |
| 20:37.05 | kerio | freemangordon: do i really have to test it? |
| 20:37.10 | kerio | i don't want to run HAM :( |
| 20:37.25 | freemangordon | try it, it is faster |
| 20:38.43 | kerio | apt-worker is thumb too, right? |
| 20:38.49 | freemangordon | yep |
| 20:41.15 | kerio | hm, it doesn't feel much faster |
| 20:41.31 | kerio | but then again, i haven't really used it enough to feel something like that |
| 20:41.36 | kerio | anyway, it appears to work fine |
| 20:51.29 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Guest66795 (~dafox@ip51cc571d.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:52.32 | kerio | freemangordon: do hildon-desktop next! :D |
| 20:52.34 | kerio | :D :D :D |
| 20:52.50 | freemangordon | kerio: nex is sleep |
| 20:52.58 | kerio | just do meth |
| 20:53.01 | kerio | like all serious people do |
| 20:53.06 | freemangordon | kerio: i will do everything which is in -testing |
| 20:53.27 | kerio | hildon-desktop is one of the ones with the botched version tho |
| 20:53.33 | freemangordon | kerio: hmm doing some sex sounds better |
| 20:53.38 | freemangordon | kerio: yes, I know |
| 20:53.46 | kerio | but sex will make you *more* tired, not less! |
| 20:54.01 | kerio | so you need merlin to delete the package or something, right? |
| 20:54.04 | freemangordon | exactly, my sleep will be more sound |
| 20:54.09 | freemangordon | kerio: yes |
| 20:54.28 | freemangordon | night guys |
| 20:54.34 | kerio | night fmg |
| 20:54.38 | merlin1991 | night fmg |
| 20:54.46 | kerio | don't die in your sleep! |
| 20:55.02 | kerio | don't die while awake, either |
| 20:55.07 | kerio | it's bad for your health |
| 21:01.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
| 21:01.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | Caesar got murdered in a rather unhealthy way |
| 21:01.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | along that line? |
| 21:02.28 | kerio | 70% of doctors agree, dying is unhealthy |
| 21:25.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | online ordering too. Got paper spam |
| 22:15.29 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Woody14619 (~Woody@66-162-186-66.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 22:15.29 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Woody14619 (~Woody@Maemo/Community/council/Woody14619) |
| 22:17.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/m/maemo-launcher/maemo-launcher_0.35-7+0m5.tar.gz README et al |
| 22:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Integrating the maemo-launcher painlessly |
| 22:18.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ========================================= |
| 22:18.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | These are the detailed changes needed to add support for the new maemo-launcher. [...] |
| 22:57.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: should we actually encourage the use of maemo-launcher? |
| 22:57.24 | kerio | it only works properly for gtk programs, anyway |
| 22:57.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not? |
| 22:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh?` |
| 22:57.39 | kerio | because it's ugly |
| 22:57.55 | kerio | hmm, actually i think it can also load qt programs |
| 22:58.34 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's already a system in place to load libraries and run binaries |
| 22:58.43 | kerio | it's the kernel |
| 22:58.53 | kerio | and ld.so or whatever |
| 22:59.39 | kerio | also, isn't maemo-launcher the one that overrides $DISPLAY? |
| 23:01.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> The only current useful booster module is for gtk, with an option to link against the hildon library to speedup symbol resolving. This module preinitializes components like pango and cairo.<< |
| 23:02.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yeah, environment passing might be a tricky resp borked aspect |
| 23:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((>> The only current useful booster module is for gtk,)) thought I've read about 3 booster modules suported, somewhere and some time during last hour |
| 23:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: >>TODO list * Pass environment from maemo-invoker to the launcher? << |
| 23:13.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: so you're absolutely right about $DISPLAY not taking effect when passed to launcherized apps |
| 23:13.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | since the *.launch binary executes in maemo-launcher environment, while environment passed to maemo-invoker goes unnoticed |
| 23:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might however be a way: pass proper $DISPLAY to maemo-launcher 'daemon', which will make *all* laucherized apps open on the new X server display |
| 23:16.50 | merlin1991 | only that this bitch starts early and runs forever |
| 23:16.56 | merlin1991 | so you'd have to restart it |
| 23:18.44 | merlin1991 | hm what is ususally the tool to read / write the rtc on linux? |
| 23:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yup, or start a second insatnce, and divert the socket on a per-case basis |
| 23:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | hwclock? |
| 23:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | even on maemo |
| 23:19.34 | merlin1991 | ah it's even in /sbin, time to find out why my clock is off by ages after each reboot |
| 23:20.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | take care about etc/adjfile! |
| 23:21.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually you want to invoke hwclock --noadjfile, but that doesn't exist on friggin bb-hwclock |
| 23:22.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I dunno if bb always or never uses /etc/adjtime |
| 23:23.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | (or whatever the friggin name) |
| 23:23.28 | merlin1991 | omfg |
| 23:23.48 | merlin1991 | hwclock -w --> hwclock: RTC_SET_TIME: Permission denied |
| 23:24.00 | merlin1991 | and yeah fsckd harm |
| 23:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | eh? |
| 23:24.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | HARM fun? |
| 23:25.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | on HARM you'll have much fun accessing RTC |
| 23:25.22 | merlin1991 | yeah, I've compiled openrdate to have a single ntp client to set the time when I feel like, but it doesn't set the RTC properly so I loose the setting after each reboot |
| 23:26.19 | merlin1991 | now I'll have to find out *how* the control panel ui does it and see how I hack that support in |
| 23:27.42 | merlin1991 | and ofc oauth --> twitter depends on the fact, that the system time is almost right |
| 23:28.28 | arcean | branoc |
| 23:29.21 | merlin1991 | "branoc" ? |
| 23:30.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: I guess some friggin binary has proper tokens or whatever the name, on this abomination claiming to be a linux |
| 23:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | so it has "allowed to access RTC dev file" in its list, and "you" don't |
| 23:31.51 | merlin1991 | well I am past aegis so I'll get that token aswell :) |
| 23:32.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure thing then |
| 23:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | just run under devel-su or develsh or the fsck knows |
| 23:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | and hwclock should work |
| 23:33.08 | merlin1991 | devel-su is not enough |
| 23:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | opensh or errr, meh ... I hate HARM |
| 23:37.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | aegis bullshit steals 80% of devel's productive time, to invent workarounds and shit that create more vulnerabilities than ever been in "everything is root"-openmoko SHR distro |
| 23:39.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly they fucked linux so terribly with aegis in HARM, it hurts to just think about it |
| 23:39.22 | merlin1991 | okay I need timed:TimeControl |
| 23:41.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't there something like the golden lemon or the slimy brown morel award for Linux ass-rapers? |
| 23:42.53 | merlin1991 | wtf is timed |
| 23:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | another nokia invention, I guess |
| 23:48.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | probably HARM's flavour of alarmd plus some additional cruft |
| 23:49.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess system-clock might not work all that flawless on a device with zeroclock, so instead of fixing some kernel functions, maybe they invented timed |
| 23:52.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | on SHR/FSO I investigated an incredibly stupid scheme used in time management to survive suspend: on suspend it calculated the time difference between systemclock and rtc, and adjusted systemclock to rtc+offset on resume *GHUALP* |
| 23:54.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | even worse, it somehow messes up stuff terribly in that process, adding an ever increasing offset of several tens of seconds on each suspend/resume cycle |
| 23:55.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course, as icing on top, it didn't refrain from ultimate stupidity and stored system time to rtc on shutdown |
| 23:56.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | (btw an extremely popular stupidity done on, I guess, 90% of desktop linus distros as well, by default) |
| 23:57.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | linux* |
| 23:58.34 | merlin1991 | hwclock should only be set to system clock after system clock has been synced with a proper timesource in my book |
| 23:59.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | just that usually desktop linux even includes adjtime file into the madness, so punishment on RTC for supposed systemic error increases each boot, until your system comes up with time set to 20.1.1613 one time, and to 4.7.2755 next time |
| 23:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: EXACTLY |