| 00:21.20 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: how did it go? |
| 00:22.34 | DocScrutinizer | not at all yet, chillout failed. Somebody thought it's a good idea to get me even more upset by pestering me about infobot |
| 00:43.42 | merlin1991 | arcean: do you have time for another meeting next wednesday after 20 utc? |
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| 01:04.17 | arcean | merlin1991, ok, no problem |
| 01:08.32 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o merlin1991] by ChanServ |
| 01:09.09 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by merlin1991 -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo2.1; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo2.1 | meeting 28.03 20:00 UTC |
| 01:09.20 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o merlin1991] by merlin1991 |
| 01:12.48 | arcean | merlin1991, thanks and bye :) |
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| 11:51.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, what about my nick? |
| 11:52.17 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, pong |
| 11:54.32 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, ping |
| 11:54.40 | psycho_oreos | you were wanting me before? |
| 11:55.23 | freemangordon | psycho_oreos, yeah, you had some issue you were thinkong it might be casued by CSSU, how it went? |
| 11:56.41 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, ahh it wasn't related to CSSU, DocScrutinizer cleared that up as it was an issue with autodisconnect. I got some help from #maemo where we actually found the culprit |
| 11:57.07 | freemangordon | ok, good |
| 11:57.26 | freemangordon | I'll search the logs |
| 12:02.42 | LaoLang_cool_ | Is CSSU testing stable enough for daily usage? |
| 12:03.20 | psycho_oreos | what's wrong with the current stable version? |
| 12:04.24 | freemangordon | psycho_oreos, it is missing lots of features from -testing |
| 12:04.50 | freemangordon | LaoLang_cool_, that is what I am using on my only phone, so I assume it stable |
| 12:05.09 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, heh if the user wants stable, there's stable, otherwise there's testing and that's for those who risk it just to be on bleeding edge |
| 12:05.21 | LaoLang_cool_ | freemangordon: wow, good :) |
| 12:05.48 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure that sort of rule applies to anything one tries, you either stick with stable and be happy or you can run the risk for the added benefits and go with bleeding edge |
| 12:06.06 | psycho_oreos | I'm also using the latest testing as well |
| 12:06.12 | freemangordon | psycho_oreos, actually -testing is not -devel ;) |
| 12:06.31 | Lava_Croft | -testing is kind of like the area for release candidates |
| 12:06.36 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, though in CSSU terms -testing == -devel :) |
| 12:06.38 | freemangordon | so there is very little chance something to be totally broken |
| 12:06.45 | freemangordon | no |
| 12:06.50 | freemangordon | it is not -devel |
| 12:07.02 | psycho_oreos | so there's actually a devel CSSU? :) |
| 12:07.04 | Lava_Croft | it certainly is not |
| 12:07.12 | Lava_Croft | if it was -devel, i wouldnt never use it |
| 12:07.16 | psycho_oreos | thinks of that gitorious repo? |
| 12:07.54 | psycho_oreos | s/?/\./ |
| 12:07.55 | LaoLang_cool_ | though it'd called testing, but its updating is not so active, so it can be thought as stable |
| 12:08.00 | psycho_oreos | bah |
| 12:08.16 | freemangordon | psycho_oreos, ask merlin1991 for "devel-repo-to-be" |
| 12:09.04 | psycho_oreos | freemangordon, I'll do so when I see merlin1991 |
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| 13:01.12 | DocScrutinizer | hi folks, what about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8347 - we already got the patched libsms in CSSU? |
| 13:01.13 | povbot | Bug 8347: Cell Broadcast Feature not available |
| 13:01.36 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: ^^ ? |
| 13:03.57 | DocScrutinizer | it's thoroughly tested and seems to work without *any* problems |
| 13:05.15 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI it's part of this new provider thingie |
| 13:10.19 | DocScrutinizer | the jonwil thingie |
| 13:10.29 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, that patched binary is licensed under nokia closed |
| 13:10.37 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 13:10.46 | Pali | should we ignore license arguments and push patched binary to CSSU? |
| 13:10.56 | Pali | I think that Nokia does not care about that now... |
| 13:11.13 | DocScrutinizer | so we either ignore that, or deliver the patch proggie (a c 5 liner I wrote) |
| 13:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | rather I provided the template, it's been written by jonwil I guess |
| 13:11.52 | Pali | I think the best should be to push binary deb package which contains that library to CSSU (with patched binary) |
| 13:12.06 | Pali | and really ignore nokia license |
| 13:12.13 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 13:12.36 | Lava_Croft | stand up against the man |
| 13:12.49 | DocScrutinizer | seems we're already shipping other nokia binaries, no? |
| 13:12.53 | Pali | quim wrote something about that we can redistribute nokia closed binaries for open projects |
| 13:13.04 | Pali | RE binaries :D (l10n) |
| 13:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | which btw IIRC was one of the reasons to get CSSU on Nokia server |
| 13:13.56 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, only l10n binaries we have yet |
| 13:14.04 | Pali | nothing more |
| 13:14.34 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: it was too much hassle and too little benefit for the certman stuff |
| 13:14.50 | DocScrutinizer | right? |
| 13:14.52 | Pali | certman is now full open :D |
| 13:14.59 | Pali | I forced nokia to open it :D |
| 13:15.16 | Pali | the only stuff which was open for fremantle |
| 13:16.32 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, what is needed to test cell broadcast? |
| 13:16.42 | DocScrutinizer | anyway that libsms has a severe and clearly located bug, with a verified fix |
| 13:17.26 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil's provider/location thingie for status area |
| 13:17.37 | DocScrutinizer | or my python proggie |
| 13:17.46 | DocScrutinizer | plus of course the patched lib |
| 13:18.30 | DocScrutinizer | there's a thread in tmo about it |
| 13:18.37 | DocScrutinizer | don't ask me where |
| 13:18.42 | Pali | https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/libconnui-dev/trees/master |
| 13:18.46 | Pali | should be? |
| 13:19.26 | DocScrutinizer | errr, dunno, the lib is called libsms or licisisms or sth like that |
| 13:20.25 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil provided all it needs to get the stuff into CSSU, and I honestly thought we included it long ago |
| 13:21.21 | Pali | ok, I suggest to create same DEB packages which are on download.maemo.nokia.com/.... with increased version |
| 13:21.52 | Pali | should I start creating dsc? |
| 13:23.29 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-03-11.log.html#t2012-03-11T17:38:11 |
| 13:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-03-10.log.html#t2012-03-10T03:19:16 |
| 13:25.11 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: ^^^ |
| 13:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: what's state of operator-name-cbs-widget? |
| 13:26.39 | DocScrutinizer | does it ship with patched libsms, or patch-libsms binary? |
| 13:27.10 | DocScrutinizer | does it ship at all with latest T? |
| 13:27.42 | DocScrutinizer | jonwil (and I) are working on this since felt years |
| 13:28.16 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: I want to add a comment to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8347: "fixed in CSSU" |
| 13:28.17 | povbot | Bug 8347: Cell Broadcast Feature not available |
| 13:29.46 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's been >1 year |
| 13:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | absolutely what CSSU is meant for |
| 13:32.31 | DocScrutinizer | forgetting to include it in recent CSSU-T was rather rude against jonwil |
| 13:34.10 | DocScrutinizer | the patch for libsms has to go into CSSU anyway, no matter what's the decision about operator-name-cbs-widget |
| 13:34.41 | DocScrutinizer | see rationale above |
| 13:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | libsms has a severe and clearly located bug, with a verified fix |
| 13:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-June/028440.html |
| 13:40.31 | DocScrutinizer | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2011-June/028444.html |
| 13:45.27 | amiconn | likes cssu as such, but hates its update procedure |
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| 13:46.06 | amiconn | It always (1) loses packages (used to be three, down to one now but still annoying and (2) disables bluetooth |
| 13:51.14 | rlinfati | flash10 can be accepted in cssu ? |
| 13:51.27 | rlinfati | adobe flash player |
| 13:55.09 | NIN101 | it would be news to me that adobe flash 10 exists for maemo... |
| 13:55.24 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 13:56.05 | DocScrutinizer | there's been that "pirated" stuff from TI, which proved to be worse than original flash9 incl special Nokia patches |
| 13:56.38 | DocScrutinizer | amiconn: which pkgs get lost? |
| 13:58.54 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: it was supposed to end up in latest testing, but mag had some build errors |
| 13:59.01 | merlin1991 | so we postponed to next testing |
| 13:59.08 | DocScrutinizer | sheeeet |
| 13:59.09 | merlin1991 | which hopefully arrives around next friday |
| 13:59.17 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 13:59.18 | rlinfati | and the flash9 with the version string changed to report 10 or 11 ? |
| 13:59.31 | DocScrutinizer | next friday which universae? |
| 13:59.37 | merlin1991 | :D |
| 13:59.40 | merlin1991 | I know |
| 14:00.11 | merlin1991 | currentlye queued for next testing is krev-c, alarmd, libxml, and the smslib + widget |
| 14:00.33 | NIN101 | rlinfati: I don't think CSSU would mess with flash version strings... |
| 14:00.34 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 14:00.59 | merlin1991 | we're not going to mess with flash version string ever |
| 14:01.06 | NIN101 | see :-). |
| 14:01.16 | merlin1991 | there is a package for that in -devel, dunno if it went up to extras |
| 14:01.25 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not that averse |
| 14:01.38 | DocScrutinizer | there might be good reasons to patch the version string |
| 14:01.57 | merlin1991 | and that would be? |
| 14:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | websites querying the string |
| 14:02.22 | merlin1991 | in any case announcing I am version x though in reality you are y is bound to break at some point |
| 14:02.37 | merlin1991 | if the user wants to take that risk there is a package for that in -devel |
| 14:02.43 | NIN101 | yep. |
| 14:02.46 | DocScrutinizer | in fact what we got is more 10 than 9 |
| 14:02.48 | merlin1991 | not something that should be forced on the general |
| 14:02.58 | merlin1991 | s/general/general user/ |
| 14:03.19 | DocScrutinizer | afaik at least |
| 14:03.29 | DocScrutinizer | 9 plus massive patches |
| 14:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | which actually are backported 10 features |
| 14:03.53 | DocScrutinizer | AIUI |
| 14:04.18 | DocScrutinizer | so it's maybe 9.75 |
| 14:04.33 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, merlin1991 - I'm creating correct debian/* stuff for that cellular libconnui packages |
| 14:04.40 | DocScrutinizer | you might argue a verstr=10 matches better |
| 14:05.10 | Pali | it will produce same package name as in nokia repository |
| 14:05.12 | merlin1991 | anybody who wants to edit his version string can use http://maemo.org/packages/view/tweakflashver/ |
| 14:05.22 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: I dunno about libconnui |
| 14:05.35 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: fair point |
| 14:05.52 | merlin1991 | it's even in extras :) |
| 14:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | actually there's nothing in CSSU that would suggest we need to fix the version string, for now |
| 14:07.20 | DocScrutinizer | I'm a bit deciding this based on my gut feelings, which so far were good enough for companies to listen to me |
| 14:07.49 | merlin1991 | amiconn: which package did you loose this time around? |
| 14:08.01 | merlin1991 | btw DocScrutinizer did you update already? |
| 14:08.14 | DocScrutinizer | libsms: part of system, closely woven in by API calls from other parts. flash version: not visible to system at all |
| 14:08.19 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 14:09.49 | DocScrutinizer | I sometimes have a hard time to explain why I decide one way or another, but when and after I do, it becomes clear usually that there's sound reason |
| 14:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | of course that'S not a basis for discussion when somebody challenges my decisions |
| 14:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | otoh we're on same page for now, regarding libsms as well as flash |
| 14:10.56 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 14:11.02 | merlin1991 | :) |
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| 14:12.04 | DocScrutinizer | as soon as massive reports come in that e.g. youtube refuses to work with unpatched flashlib while it works with patched flash version string, I'd prolly change my mind |
| 14:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | as then it's obvious the system as a whole has a "bug" which can get fixed easily |
| 14:14.07 | DocScrutinizer | and again I like to push for a extras-cssu repo, that has apps tested on and tailored for CSSU |
| 14:14.41 | DocScrutinizer | for now we already have ONE app in there: orientation-lock-widget |
| 14:14.58 | merlin1991 | that's not going to happen on maemo.org |
| 14:15.36 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: I'm passionless about where that repo lives |
| 14:17.31 | DocScrutinizer | we probably not even need a new repo, just similar logic/stics like extras, where some pkgs are not visible via HAM and still can get installed |
| 14:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | this class would make our CSSU core |
| 14:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | while the visible pks are the optional ones |
| 14:18.29 | DocScrutinizer | don't you think this can work? |
| 14:21.16 | DocScrutinizer | we also might want to move e.g. nicocam to that optional class |
| 14:21.48 | DocScrutinizer | which solves our problem of "not possible to rollback" |
| 14:23.07 | DocScrutinizer | as those CSSU installations out there that already have nicocam can happily pull updates from "cssu-optional" class when next CSSU rev rolls out, while those installing fresh wouldn't automatically include nicocam any more |
| 14:27.02 | DocScrutinizer | actually AIUI our CSSU is a MP and visible in HAM from CSSU repo, while the pkgs inside that MP are not visible and also live on same CSSU repo. Right? |
| 14:28.02 | DocScrutinizer | move nicocam and orientationlock-applet out of MP and into an own class similar to CSSU-MP, et voila |
| 14:28.46 | DocScrutinizer | class here means HAM app class, that decides about visibility and category |
| 14:29.44 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not into HAM that much to know how that's implemented, but I heard it's several classes some of which HAM actively filters and doesn't display |
| 14:30.27 | DocScrutinizer | unless you put HAM into redpill mode ;-D |
| 14:31.44 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: you #maemo ping already serviced? |
| 14:31.53 | DocScrutinizer | your* |
| 14:37.31 | Pali | merlin1991, see this: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/libconnui-dev/merge_requests/1 |
| 14:38.05 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, is there a way to get usb speed when hostmode is active? |
| 14:38.19 | Pali | or it is impossible? |
| 14:38.38 | DocScrutinizer | find out which speed? |
| 14:39.15 | Pali | autodetect low/high/full mode |
| 14:39.27 | DocScrutinizer | well, first of all you have to actively set speed when using N900 hostmode |
| 14:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | as you can't change speed as soon as vbus got attached |
| 14:40.00 | DocScrutinizer | and you can't detect speed of periipheral without vbus |
| 14:40.50 | Pali | so, not possible? |
| 14:40.53 | DocScrutinizer | that'S the whole reason why h-e-n has speed selector, and why autospeed detection doesn't work |
| 14:41.40 | DocScrutinizer | kernel detects speed of attached peripheral on vbus engaged, but then kernel can't switch speed accordingly anymore |
| 14:43.22 | DocScrutinizer | and since vbus isn't controlled in kernel domain, you have to implement all "auto-speed" in h-e-n or a similar userland app that enables vboost, reads out what kernel found out about peripheral, then removes vbus for long enough to terminate the USBG session, sets speed accordingly and ramps up hostmode incl vboost again |
| 14:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | blueled's script is trying to do exactly that |
| 14:45.11 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: does this explanation answer your questions? |
| 14:46.34 | DocScrutinizer | I may add that this inability to switch speed with vbus attached is an idiosyncrasy of exploited testmode we had to resort to, to make hostmode possible at all on N900 |
| 14:47.06 | Pali | yes |
| 14:47.46 | Pali | As vbus is controled by my bq2415x driver in kernel, I'm thing if it can be possible to autodetect speed also in kernel |
| 14:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | on a proper usual usb-hc, the speed is switched automatically even in musb-core hardware block, and kernel only takes notice but doesn't actively switch speed |
| 14:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | so even if you'd decide to try auto speed-detect in kernel, you still are far away from how USB *usually* works |
| 14:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | plus you get layering issues when trying to control vbus boost in bq24150 from musb-hdrc, I'd guess |
| 14:50.50 | Pali | communication between bq2415x and isp* modules are done via platform data in board-rx51.c |
| 14:51.10 | Pali | so some hook can be added into musb*.c to call some platform_data function |
| 14:51.44 | DocScrutinizer | and since kernel is .. well kernel, you lose control of what it actually does regarding vboost and charging and hostmode etc, means you'll have a hard time to recover when any of this stuff doesn't behave with a particular paripheral the way you (the kernel devel who designed all this) thought |
| 14:52.25 | DocScrutinizer | I strongly suggest not to implement anything like this into kernel |
| 14:52.28 | Pali | bq2415x driver is fully configurable via sysfs |
| 14:52.42 | Pali | ok |
| 14:52.51 | DocScrutinizer | since kernel still ahs to cope with bme, if nothing else suggests not to do it |
| 14:54.00 | Pali | bq driver does not work with BME :D and it replacing bme |
| 14:55.11 | DocScrutinizer | you'll have an incredibly hard time to make your kernel compatible with bme, even if you'd do "the right thing" and replace the vboost-enable function already existing in kernel (but empty function, formerly controlled twl4030 chargepump) by something that directly drives bq24150 |
| 14:55.36 | merlin1991 | Pali: I can't merge that mg |
| 14:55.50 | DocScrutinizer | that'S exactly why we decided NOT to do it like this when we patched kernel for h-e-n |
| 14:56.37 | merlin1991 | the problem is libconnui is not part of the fremantle scratchbox, so you can't link against it without the binary in the -dev package |
| 14:57.12 | Pali | merlin1991, ah ok |
| 14:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: to make a proper hostmode kernel with vboost work for a standard maemo fremantle system with bme, you'd need such massive nasty hacks to avoid bme interfere with vboost mode. It's not feasible |
| 14:57.57 | Pali | but why with BME? |
| 14:58.25 | Pali | bq24* driver is replacing BME |
| 14:58.30 | DocScrutinizer | because bme gets started in fremantle initscripts, and is needed by e.g hal-addon-bme etc |
| 14:59.04 | DocScrutinizer | of course you can build a proper hostmode kernel, but that one will be incompatible to fremantle |
| 14:59.19 | Pali | hal-addon-bme can be replaced |
| 14:59.31 | DocScrutinizer | well, actually a *proper* hostmode kernel doesn't even work on N900 |
| 14:59.34 | Pali | interface to HAL is known and bq241* interface to kernel too |
| 14:59.52 | DocScrutinizer | yes, it can. but not for stock fremantle |
| 15:01.04 | DocScrutinizer | plus, as elaborated above, the fsckdup N900 hw doesn't allow a really *proper* hostmode anyway. You always need to exploit testmode, with all the negative side effects as described above |
| 15:02.14 | DocScrutinizer | you need to implement into kernel what blueled's hostmode script is doing in userland right now. And you see this script doesn't work reliably. But at least you can reliably stop it |
| 15:02.33 | DocScrutinizer | you can't stop your kernel when it starts to act up |
| 15:03.04 | merlin1991 | oh you can, pull out the battery ;) |
| 15:03.08 | DocScrutinizer | honestly, I've been there, done that (or rather, decided not to do) |
| 15:03.49 | DocScrutinizer | and I suggest you don't try to implement stuff that 5 other devels discussed for months and concluded it's not feasible |
| 15:05.19 | DocScrutinizer | or, even when feasible, is absolutely not what we'd like to see n kernel domain |
| 15:08.04 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: honestly, if you want to improve hostmode kernel, you have no option but read and understand *all* that's been reported and discussed in the 3 lengthy usb-hostmode threads |
| 15:08.47 | Pali | ok |
| 15:08.56 | DocScrutinizer | then if you feel you're smarter, go ahead and discuss with the original devels - or just dive in head first. But then don't come and complain |
| 15:13.51 | DocScrutinizer | I'm happy to share some of my links: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31921 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=583165#post583165 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=588950#post588950 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=685367#post685367 ff, and of course the mailing list stuff on h-e-n garage (not much) |
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| 15:30.00 | Pali | DocScrutinizer, I have other problem with musb/?? with kernel-power: When I connect my n900 to notebook usb charging port n900 detect that charger is connected instead usb data |
| 15:30.29 | Pali | so I cannot use that usb port on notebook for n900 Pc-suite/mass storage |
| 15:30.38 | Pali | but with maemo pr1.3 kernel all is ok |
| 15:30.58 | Pali | where I can start to debug this problem? |
| 15:31.06 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 15:31.32 | Pali | usb charging port is classic port on my notebook, but it can charge phone if notebook is turned off too |
| 15:31.32 | DocScrutinizer | charger detect means 1707 PHY has detected a D+/- short |
| 15:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | so your PC port has some means or bug that triggers this detection in 1707PHY |
| 15:33.46 | guly | dsmetool -k /usr/bin/modest |
| 15:33.48 | guly | Process not killed: not found, not root or kill failed |
| 15:33.49 | Pali | but why with stock nokia pr1.3 kernel there is no problem? |
| 15:33.52 | guly | i'm root |
| 15:33.53 | guly | any hint ? |
| 15:34.01 | Pali | guly: killall modest |
| 15:34.08 | guly | doesn't work, spawn again |
| 15:34.13 | DocScrutinizer | to detect D+/- short, the 1707 connects one D-line to VBUS via a "pullup" resistor, and enables pulldown resistor on the other D-line. Then it checks if the line with pulldown resistor is pulled up to VBUS level |
| 15:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: a good question why it works on stock kernel |
| 15:35.09 | int_ua | guly: I've just renamed modest executable. You are trying to get rid of it, right? |
| 15:35.34 | guly | i'm trying to use it just when i need it, then actually kill it |
| 15:35.56 | DocScrutinizer | seems stock kernel either handles config of 1707 differently, or it handles OTG (aka charger) IRQ line from 1707 differnetly |
| 15:36.00 | merlin1991 | guly: might be |
| 15:36.10 | merlin1991 | dsmetool -k /usr/bin/modest.launch |
| 15:36.23 | merlin1991 | or however that launch binary was called |
| 15:36.24 | guly | tried, doesn't work too |
| 15:36.44 | guly | usr/bin/modest -> /usr/bin/maemo-invoker |
| 15:36.53 | guly | killing maemo-invoker scares me :) |
| 15:36.57 | merlin1991 | dsmetool ought to have some way to dump it's current watchhandlers |
| 15:37.11 | merlin1991 | yeah that would kill pretty much everything |
| 15:37.21 | merlin1991 | phone-ui, browser, everything that has a booster process |
| 15:38.16 | DocScrutinizer | Pali: I think freemangordon had a look into some similar issue around fastcharger detect, that caused problems with shutdown or startup of kernel when charger attached, or sth like that |
| 15:38.35 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess it's same root cause |
| 15:40.18 | NIN101 | guly: to get rid of modest, find modest.desktop and nuke the preload stuff... |
| 15:40.34 | NIN101 | I mean the X-preload or something |
| 15:40.45 | guly | NIN101: yes, commented and removed those two lines |
| 15:40.48 | guly | doesn't work |
| 15:40.56 | NIN101 | you need to reboot |
| 15:41.06 | guly | yes i know :) |
| 15:41.19 | DocScrutinizer | should work |
| 15:41.20 | NIN101 | well worked for me :-). |
| 15:41.51 | guly | so must be something strange with my configuration.. |
| 15:42.02 | DocScrutinizer | actually I had to do it (for xchat that I eventually had on "autostart" by that feature) in several places |
| 15:42.12 | DocScrutinizer | drove me nuts until I removed it again |
| 15:43.03 | *** join/#maemo-ssu DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) |
| 15:43.03 | *** join/#maemo-ssu Jaffa (~andrew@Maemo/community/contributor/Jaffa) |
| 15:43.03 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by lindbohm.freenode.net -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo2.1; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo2.1 |
| 15:43.15 | merlin1991 | wtf? |
| 15:43.18 | DocScrutinizer | iirc there are several places where this stuff gets cached or might live - can't remember the details, but I clearly recall I thought "duh, it "doesn't work") |
| 15:43.28 | merlin1991 | why did the irc server adjust the topic? |
| 15:43.38 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:43.49 | DocScrutinizer | no adjustment |
| 15:43.58 | DocScrutinizer | just server restart |
| 15:44.13 | merlin1991 | I've set it to include a metting next week at the end tonight |
| 15:44.14 | DocScrutinizer | netsplit or sth |
| 15:44.21 | merlin1991 | now it got set back |
| 15:44.27 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 15:44.40 | *** join/#maemo-ssu arcean_ (~arcean@aaer183.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 15:44.52 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [+o merlin1991] by ChanServ |
| 15:44.54 | DocScrutinizer | they had to restore a backup obviously ;-P |
| 15:45.25 | DocScrutinizer | barjavel freaked out last night |
| 15:45.34 | *** topic/#maemo-ssu by merlin1991 -> Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version (testing): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo2.1; (stable): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo2.1 | meeting: 28.03 20:00 UTC |
| 15:45.47 | *** mode/#maemo-ssu [-o merlin1991] by merlin1991 |
| 15:46.28 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 16:43:03] [Notify] Jaffa ist online (irc.freenode.org). |
| 15:46.29 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 16:43:03] [Notify] DocScrutinizer51 ist online (irc.freenode.org). |
| 15:46.31 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 16:43:04] [topic] #maemo-ssu Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, h |
| 15:47.29 | DocScrutinizer | nfc if there's sth like a home irc server for a channel |
| 15:48.01 | guly | actually it works, i must stop drinking aloe-based drinks |
| 15:48.08 | DocScrutinizer | anyway DocScrutinizer51 been on barjavel last night, and acted up like mad |
| 15:48.23 | DocScrutinizer | guly: toldya :-D |
| 15:48.52 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-24 16:48:43] [Whois] DocScrutinizer51 ist auf dem Server barjavel.freenode.net (Paris, FR). |
| 15:48.54 | guly | modest has some issue with true-crypted gconf dir but this is another story :) |
| 15:49.48 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: maybe the "master record" for this chan's /topic lives on barjavel |
| 15:49.51 | NIN101 | hmm truecrypted gconf dir |
| 15:50.02 | NIN101 | good idea actually. |
| 15:50.08 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 15:50.42 | merlin1991 | I don't trust truecrypt :D |
| 15:51.00 | NIN101 | yeah I am moving to cryptsetup (LUKS)... |
| 15:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | only if truecrypt passphrase requester doesn'T need *any* service that's using gconf keys |
| 15:52.00 | guly | well i encrypted just apps/modest dir |
| 15:52.16 | NIN101 | what is the "apps" dir? |
| 15:52.24 | guly | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:52.29 | NIN101 | ah. |
| 15:53.31 | guly | have to go, bye |
| 15:53.42 | DocScrutinizer | I doubt you can simply add gconf dirs later on - I'd expect gconfd will try to access all of them on startup |
| 15:53.53 | NIN101 | maybe. |
| 15:54.33 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, the day fades away |
| 15:54.42 | DocScrutinizer | (wow, pure lyrics) |
| 15:55.05 | DocScrutinizer | gotta enjoy the big bluebox |
| 15:55.49 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
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| 16:36.42 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: ? |
| 16:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 16:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | sorry for highlighting you |
| 16:37.20 | Jaffa | Ah, wasn't specific? |
| 16:37.40 | DocScrutinizer | nope, just to document the returning barjavel irc server |
| 16:38.10 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, hi! :-D |
| 16:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: barjavel reset the chan /topic to an obsolete version |
| 16:40.51 | DocScrutinizer | strange thing |
| 16:41.20 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Heh |
| 16:41.24 | Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: hello o/ |
| 16:45.51 | *** join/#maemo-ssu javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 17:32.54 | amiconn | DocScrutinizer: Two packages which got lost with earlier cssu versions are fixed now (rtcom-accounts-voip-support and mdest-home-applet). The one which still gets lost is microb-geolocation. |
| 17:34.03 | amiconn | merlin1991 too ^ |
| 17:34.10 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 17:46.26 | *** join/#maemo-ssu sam23m (~user@112.201.222.115) |
| 17:47.11 | sam23m | any chance bug 11976 will be included in cssu? |
| 17:47.11 | povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11976 viewing sms conversations in portrait mode without horizontal scrolling (patch) |
| 17:48.44 | merlin1991 | sam23m: this one is quite controversal |
| 17:49.04 | merlin1991 | we can't reship the package due to the license |
| 17:49.13 | merlin1991 | so we have to build a proper patch pacakge |
| 17:49.18 | sam23m | ooooh |
| 17:51.15 | merlin1991 | like it is proposed in the last entry by pali |
| 17:51.47 | merlin1991 | though nobody ever invested the time to actually build such a thing |
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| 17:55.55 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: eh? the src is open, but licence forbids reshipping? |
| 17:56.08 | merlin1991 | something like that if I remember correctly |
| 17:56.15 | DocScrutinizer | WTF?! |
| 17:56.19 | merlin1991 | also src is open because the part to fix is a css file |
| 17:56.25 | merlin1991 | you can't close source that stuff ;) |
| 17:56.27 | DocScrutinizer | HAHA |
| 17:56.30 | DocScrutinizer | ok |
| 17:57.03 | DocScrutinizer | I'd not give a flying F on (C) of a CSS |
| 17:57.22 | DocScrutinizer | honestly if you got any problem with that, ship a patch instead ;-D |
| 17:57.35 | merlin1991 | that is a problem by itself |
| 17:57.46 | merlin1991 | there is no "patch" utility in fremantle |
| 17:57.49 | merlin1991 | only in the sdk repo |
| 17:57.54 | DocScrutinizer | dang |
| 17:58.19 | merlin1991 | though it should be possible todo it |
| 17:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, patch is GPL and a simple cmdline tool |
| 17:58.28 | merlin1991 | first of that |
| 17:58.32 | DocScrutinizer | no problem to ship it with CSSU |
| 17:58.53 | merlin1991 | and secondly since we can onsider rtcom fixed in version a simple echo >> cssfile should work aswell :P |
| 17:58.57 | merlin1991 | *consider* |
| 17:59.57 | DocScrutinizer | umm, you only need to append lines to "fix" the issue? great! |
| 18:00.28 | merlin1991 | yeah the only thing to consider is proper dpkg-divert or something to make it sane for a possible update |
| 18:00.52 | DocScrutinizer | anyway iirc diff can create several different output formats. one of them might fit for messybox sed or sth |
| 18:01.03 | merlin1991 | in other words someone has to spend about 2 hours medling with packaging untill it is secure and works |
| 18:01.19 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 18:01.28 | DocScrutinizer | not me, I hate friggin portrait mode |
| 18:01.34 | merlin1991 | :D |
| 18:02.15 | merlin1991 | I think the best approach would be to have a package that depends on the rtcom package, has a md5sum compare check for the version |
| 18:02.26 | merlin1991 | and in case of "yes we can fix this" applies the echo >> |
| 18:02.34 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 18:02.34 | merlin1991 | everything else should be taken care of by dpkg then |
| 18:03.06 | merlin1991 | I just need to figure out how dpkg-divert works for real |
| 18:03.20 | merlin1991 | it's a bit of black magic to me since I never looked into it |
| 18:03.42 | DocScrutinizer | dpkg is all black magic to me |
| 18:04.10 | DocScrutinizer | as I never really looked into *any* packaging |
| 18:04.22 | DocScrutinizer | except installshield ;-P |
| 18:05.06 | DocScrutinizer | dang, that been a P |
| 18:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | PITA |
| 18:05.44 | merlin1991 | hehe installshield, kinda as bad as the native ms installer stuff |
| 18:05.51 | DocScrutinizer | still throws up, after 12 years |
| 18:07.01 | sam23m | how about this one http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1182569&postcount=369 |
| 18:07.24 | DocScrutinizer | make sure it works on win98, 98se, ME, NT, 2000 |
| 18:07.28 | sam23m | not sure if there is a bug report somewhere |
| 18:07.56 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 18:08.04 | DocScrutinizer | really have to run now |
| 18:08.15 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 18:08.30 | merlin1991 | sam23m: afaik, it never was found out *why* the database goes corrupt, and afaik the involved components are closed source |
| 18:08.46 | sam23m | oh thanks! |
| 18:09.08 | merlin1991 | so far I've only seen a "fix" to recover a corrupted databas |
| 18:27.28 | DocScrutinizer | nota bene structure of eventsdb changed IIRC with PR1.2 |
| 18:27.44 | DocScrutinizer | so it might already have been fixed |
| 18:28.54 | sam23m | i still experience it |
| 18:29.23 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, like for all messaging apps (mail, sms, whatnot else) it might be reasonable to move really old stuff out of the online database and keep them in some archive |
| 18:30.06 | DocScrutinizer | performance of any database doesn't improve with a large number of records |
| 18:31.00 | DocScrutinizer | btw!!!!! this seems to me like a plausible root cause for performance issues due to excessive ram usage and subsequent swapping: sql database size too large |
| 18:32.06 | DocScrutinizer | this might explain why some users seem to suffer frequently and terribly from such sluggishness of system, while others like me (with really small sql database) never really encounter it |
| 18:32.37 | DocScrutinizer | DIE TRACKER DIE!!!! |
| 18:32.50 | merlin1991 | yeah I only have problems with slow device when tracker goes mad |
| 18:33.05 | DocScrutinizer | it'S been the absolutely worst design decision ever to user trackerdb a lot for core things |
| 18:33.08 | merlin1991 | or if I start openoffice in easy-debian, but that's bound to happen :D |
| 18:33.29 | merlin1991 | tracker isn't that bad, it's bad how it's used in harm |
| 18:33.33 | merlin1991 | on maemo it does what it should |
| 18:33.36 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 18:33.40 | merlin1991 | index the device media for the media framework |
| 18:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | it also is used to store sms etc, no? |
| 18:34.01 | merlin1991 | nope |
| 18:34.06 | merlin1991 | sms are in a seperate sqlite db |
| 18:34.17 | merlin1991 | it stores sms and email on harm |
| 18:34.28 | DocScrutinizer | ok, then that'S applicable only for HARM |
| 18:35.22 | merlin1991 | yeah tracker on maemo just needs a lil saner filter options (see album art in music files) + less I need to reindex everything now because I feel like then it would perfectly do its job |
| 18:35.24 | DocScrutinizer | anyway sql engine tends to allocate SHITLOADS of RAM, and that happens for eventsdb on any inbound our outbound call or SMS, for tracker with any change on the monitored dirs, etc |
| 18:36.23 | DocScrutinizer | where $SHITLOAD_of _RAM is proportional to size * number of records in db |
| 18:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | so no suprise it eventually brings system to a grinding halt, no? |
| 18:37.52 | DocScrutinizer | same for mails I guess |
| 18:39.59 | DocScrutinizer | I feel like finally spotting the king of bugs after 2 years of hunting ;-D |
| 18:41.13 | DocScrutinizer | quite obviously Nokia never tested their system performance with shitloads of records in those databases. Maybe for tracker with music, but even with gallery they for sure didn't |
| 18:41.47 | DocScrutinizer | and you bet they haven't ever even thought about an eventsdb with 15000 SMS in it |
| 18:42.02 | DocScrutinizer | and 20000 phoncall events |
| 18:42.40 | DocScrutinizer | we should start a new investigation project for this |
| 18:43.19 | sam23m | please! |
| 18:43.41 | DocScrutinizer | "the mystery of sluggishness exposed" |
| 18:44.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | cya |
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| 20:04.32 | amiconn | 15000 SMS? o.O |
| 22:43.39 | DocScrutinizer | whatever |
| 22:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | maybe 150 are enough |
| 22:44.18 | DocScrutinizer | it's about the principle |
| 22:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | the principle is that rdbms are greedy with RAM |
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