irclog2html for #htc-blueangel on 20051011

01:21.51immolofinally :D it's built
01:22.08immolotime to do a quick backup and test
05:53.51*** join/#htc-blueangel immolo (n=immolo@cpc1-cosh1-4-0-cust126.cos2.cable.ntl.com)
06:43.13*** join/#htc-blueangel JuNuKN (n=JuNuKN@K9c9a.k.pppool.de)
06:48.53*** join/#htc-blueangel rob_w-cgi (n=txuser@dd1010.kasserver.com)
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06:49.08rob_w-cgigood morning to all
06:49.48rob_w-cgiseems we will have haret sound support soon
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07:14.49cp15Good morning
07:54.58geroogood morning all
07:55.04geroois there anybody can help me
07:55.57cp15Depends on your problem. Just try it
07:56.13bhimagood morning.
07:57.22gerooi have blue angel with WM05
07:59.11cp15There we got the problem already ;-)
08:02.17cp15Hmm... Strange
08:06.12*** join/#htc-blueangel geroo (n=gezzat@62.193.74.139)
08:06.27geroohello
08:07.14geroosorry for disconnected
08:08.39geroocan anybody help me installing linux in my blueangel
08:08.49cp15So, describe your problem (if it's WM05 related, you are probably out of luck)
08:09.18cp15Ah, ok. I got one report haret doesn't work with WM05
08:09.36cp15Have you already tried?
08:09.41geroook i will restore to wm 2003 se
08:09.47gerooyes i tried
08:10.01cp15To which state does it get?
08:12.29gerooit start the linux benguin
08:12.33gerooand stop
08:12.57cp15Did the thermometer fill up?
08:13.04cp15Did the eyes went red?
08:13.05gerooyes
08:13.16cp15Did you need a hard reset after running it?
08:13.38geroothe eye start to be red and be  wider but it not filled totaly with red
08:13.48gerooand i had to hard reset to get it work again
08:13.51cp15Yes, thats ok
08:14.18cp15Hmm... That means the kernel got at least loaded
08:14.22rob_w-cgididnt know that ba is able for wm05 ??
08:15.03cp15HTC accidentially leaked a WM05 rom. It was full of problems, but the community managed to fix some of them
08:15.19gerooand i will list the files i loaded to the BA
08:15.39rob_w-cgicp15 is it worth looking ?
08:16.09cp15Don't know. For me: definetly not, I want Linux :-)
08:16.17geroome
08:16.18gerooto
08:16.23geroobut i can not make it work
08:16.29gerooso what do you sugesst for me
08:16.49gerooshall i go back to wm03
08:17.13cp15Well, if you don't need WM05 make a downgrade. It's probably less trouble than trying to fix haret.
08:17.20rob_w-cgigeroo , go for a normal reset and make sure ACtive sync did not run at all .. yeah it does work for us
08:17.57cp15Which zImage have you used?
08:18.17geroo2.6.12
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08:18.54cp15From where downloaded?
08:19.02geroofrom the wiki
08:19.19geroozImage-2.6.12-hh2
08:19.51cp15Can you give me an url, just to be sure?
08:19.59geroook just a second
08:22.34geroohttp://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BlueangelKernel
08:25.43cp15You can try http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=zImage-2.6.12-hh2-2
08:26.25cp15which is a bit newer, but the problem is most likely WM05 related.
08:28.17gerooso i will downgrade first and try
08:28.25gerooi have another question
08:28.58gerooi have reformated the extended rom of my device and resize it to 128k instead of 15mb
08:29.22gerooshall i return to the normal size of the extended rom
08:30.17cp15Not necessary for linux, it runs currently entirely from SD card
08:30.41geroook
08:30.57geroothe zimage size is 800kb is this ok
08:31.13rob_w-cgicp15 is this sound haret already done `?
08:31.24cp15geroo: Seems ok
08:31.30geroook thanks alot
08:31.35geroogod bless you all
08:31.37cp15rob: Yes, take a look at the handhelds wiki
08:31.56cp15geroo: One question from me
08:32.23geroosure
08:32.39cp15What happens if you resize the extended rom? Do you get a working windows immediately after the cut & paste excercise?
08:33.05gerooyes
08:33.26gerooit is a utility on xda-developer that resize and format the extended rom
08:33.39cp15Ah, ok. Good to know
08:33.39geroobut first you have to unlock and unhide
08:33.50geroothen you repartition and format
08:34.12gerooi have another question
08:34.20cp15I have already done this and changed the customization to boot linux :-) But it's easier to use autorun.exe
08:34.42rob_w-cgigreat
08:35.01rob_w-cgiso only the haret.exe is needed no additonal paramteres ..
08:35.03geroowhere shall i copy the files
08:35.09gerooany place on my pda
08:35.16gerooor shall be on a sd card
08:35.43cp15It works from any place, but the recommended setup is as follows:
08:36.14cp15Use a SD card, make 2 partitions on it, format the first one fat, the second one ext3
08:36.44cp15Place haret, startup.txt, kernel and initrd on the first partition in a folder linux
08:37.49cp15create a folder 2577 on the first partition and put autorun.exe (download it from http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel) in this folder
08:38.00rob_w-cgidoes it happen to you tha tthe ba wakes up after some sec ..
08:38.21cp15This allows you to boot linux as soon as the SD card is inserted or the cut & paste excercise is completed
08:38.28geroook how can i do partitions on sd card
08:38.51cp15Hmm... Does the initrd include fdisk... I have to check
08:38.51rob_w-cgiu chose fdisk
08:39.22geroofdisk from the linux or windows
08:39.24rob_w-cgino it doesnt and also not the needed mkfs.fat/ext2/3
08:39.29gerooi did not try this before
08:39.43cp15Maybe we should add mkfs and fdisk to initrd
08:40.07cp15And maybe also a little script which auto-partitions and auto-formats the sd card
08:40.12rob_w-cgihehe
08:40.19gerooor sahll i use linux operating system on my machine
08:40.34rob_w-cgigeroo , yeah go for that
08:40.38cp15Do you have a sd card reader working on a linux machine?
08:40.54geroono i have it working on my windows xp lap
08:41.34rob_w-cgigeroo with that you should be able to create 2 partitions but not format the 2nd with ext2
08:42.37rob_w-cgicp15 why cant i use sh inside the linuxrc .. i only can call gpe-dm direclty but not sh into some scripts like start scripts , then the kernel " attempts to kill init "
08:43.59cp15Don't know, it should work
08:44.18cp15geroo: Can you do dcc?
08:47.09geroowhat is the dcc
08:47.30cp15Direct client connect, used to transfer files between irc clients
08:47.41gerooi am sorry i am totaly have no experience in linux
08:47.58cp15It's not a linux feature
08:48.05geroook
08:48.13gerooi got what you mean
08:48.22gerooand what you need to transfer
08:48.44cp15Ok, then I will provide you a initrd which includes fdisk, mkfs.ext3 and mkfs.fat
08:48.53geroogreat
08:48.59cp15You can then partition the sd card from linux
08:49.35cp15But you need either a linux host with usb to login via network or a serial cable
08:50.19gerooso what shall i do to get teh file
08:50.51cp15You will get a requester, I have to prepare the file first, it will take a few minutes
08:51.01geroook take your time
08:51.54geroowhile i am downgrading to wm03
08:53.02cp15Ok, but I request from one of you to write and publish a little documentation
08:58.37gerooi have another question
08:58.48cp15Just ask
08:58.55gerooafter i installthe linux on my pda
08:59.05geroohow i will synchronise with my pc
09:00.22cp15I hope you are not too disappointed when I tell you that linux on the ba is still at a very early stage and synchronisation is a feature which does not yet work
09:00.42cp15Which what master do you want to sync?
09:00.47gerooOK
09:01.04gerooIS THERE ANY BACKUP TOOLS WITH THE LINUX
09:01.34cp15I use rsync, it works far better than the windows backup
09:01.44cp15Which reminds me to let it run
09:02.14gerooand as i understand that i can switch to the wm03 when just unplug my sd card
09:02.46cp15Yes, but it will require a hard reset
09:02.54geroook
09:30.24cp15Ok, initrd is ready. Who wants it first?
09:42.49rob_w-cgicp15 what is changed ?
09:44.08cp15I have added fdisk, mkfs.ext2/3, mkfs.msdos/fat, fsck.ext2/3 and fsck.msdos/fat
09:44.22cp15Shamelessly stolen from debian
09:44.32rob_w-cgibastard
09:44.45cp15Debian packages work quite nice on the blueangel
09:45.05rob_w-cgiyeah
09:46.08gerooI AM WAITING FOR THE INITRD
09:46.46cp15Sorry, wrong click
09:47.06gerooOK RESEND
09:47.49gerooSORRY IT WAS REJECTED SEND AGAIN
09:48.30cp15So, now you should see a file transfer request
09:48.54gerooYES THANKS
09:49.36cp15It's still not transferring, you have to accept it
09:50.31cp15Seems like it doesn't work
09:50.33gerooI ACCEPT BUT IT FAILED IN THE NEXT STAGE I DO NOT KNOW WHY
09:50.49cp15I will put the initrd on the handhelds wiki
09:50.55gerooOK
09:50.58gerooMUCH BETTER
09:51.45gerooI HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION CONCERNING THE CONTACTS AND CALENDAR, ARE THEY WILL BE AVAILABLE AFTER INSTALLING THE LINUX OR NOT
09:53.17cp15If you download the root filesystem, yes, they will be available
09:54.33cp15http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=initrd-2.6.12-hh2.gz-3
09:56.34rob_w-cgigeroo mind your CAPS LOCK
10:03.55cp15I have modified the linuxrc in the initrd a bit
10:04.32cp15You can specify boot_mmc=y in startup.txt to boot from sd card
10:05.03cp15You can specify linuxrc_mountsrc and linuxrc_mountdst to mount a nfs filesystem and boot from nfs
10:05.37cp15If you did none of them, it will boot from initrd
10:25.58*** join/#htc-blueangel frost_ii (n=frost_ii@81.3.154.196)
10:36.58gerooif i do not have an SD card
10:37.05geroowhat shall i do
10:38.35gerooi have a problem said that unable to mount root fs on unkown-block
10:39.19cp15Ah, ok. Show me your startup.txt
10:39.55cp15If you don't have an SD card you have three options
10:40.03cp151. Go out and buy one
10:40.35cp152. Use your linux host as nfs server and let it run from nfs (but you can't take it with you then)
10:41.00cp153. Stick with the ramdisk, but you can't do anything useful
10:42.32geroook i will got one
10:43.40cp15From which part of the world are you?
10:43.49gerooegypt
10:43.56geroou think i am stuiped
10:44.09cp15?
10:44.34geroothis is my first time to deal with linux even on pc's i do not have any idea about that
10:44.52gerooso forgive me if i am asking suiped and simple things
10:46.12cp15No problem. But one question: Why do you want to run linux on your BA?
10:55.13gerooi think it is much better than WM05
10:57.08cp15Hmm... It might be later, but at its current state it is only for real enthusiasts
10:57.27geroou mean for developer
10:57.52cp15You don't have to be a developer, but it helps
11:01.44cp15I have to leave now, but will be back in a few hours
11:59.27*** join/#htc-blueangel geroo (n=gezzat@62.193.74.139)
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14:46.47rob_w-cgiah guees you are here ,.. so your cvs check in`s
14:48.29cp15Yes, seems so
14:49.26cp15I think to get further we need more developers
14:50.44cp15The basic things are done, phone is useable including ringtones, kernel works for the important features, a distribution is in progress
14:51.26cp15But there are still things which have to reverse engineered, drivers have to be developed, gomunicator and gpe in general has to be improved
14:52.05cp15I can't do that all on my own
14:52.17cp15HHHEEELLLPPP!!!
14:53.53cp15Still below 200 :-)
14:55.56bhimaheh.
14:56.02bhimaso, what do you want me to do?
14:57.13cp15Well, at first I think you need to start with getting a useable system
14:57.21bhimaYeah. :)
14:58.00cp15Then, since you already experimenting with gtk and glade and are a gsm expert, how about improving gomunicator?
14:59.06bhimaOk. I'll look at that. Is there a handy image with everything on it I can download? :)
15:01.43cp15Well, since geroo disappeared, I ask you to write a "Installing Linux on Blueangel" howto. I will tell you what you need to do and you try and document it.
15:02.28bhimaok.
15:03.24cp15At first you need an SD-Card with at least 128 MB and no valuable data on it
15:03.40bhimaBut all my data is valuable! :)
15:06.10bhimaok. got one.
15:06.39bhimaIs an MMC card likely to work or not?
15:10.28cp15It will work, but the performance will be even worse as with sd
15:14.37bhimaok.
15:15.39cp15Remove all files on the card and create a folder linux
15:17.26cp15Put the following files in the linux folder:
15:17.34cp15http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=haret.exe
15:17.41cp15http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=zImage-2.6.12-hh2-3
15:17.47cp15http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=initrd-2.6.12-hh2.gz-3
15:22.20bhimasorry, I'm running around right now. I will be paying attention, but I'll be randomly away and returning.
15:23.05cp15Ok, then we continue better when you have time
15:28.10rob_w-cgii can take care of the howto
15:28.34rob_w-cgilets do it on the wiki so all can contribute
15:28.41rob_w-cgineed to run cu
15:28.44bhimaI figured I'd put it on the wiki.
15:30.20cp15bhima: It is probably better when you do it, since you will encounter the problems
15:30.49bhimahehehe. Good point. :)
17:05.15immoloheya
17:05.26immolocp15- you going to be around in 30mins?
17:19.37cp15immolo: I think so
17:24.05immolowell less then 30mins :P
17:24.16immolowe have a distro :D
17:25.39cp15Cool.
17:25.48cp15bhima: Do you want to test?
17:26.03immoloI just need to tune an initrd to get it fully working
17:26.46immolobut it boots up and shows gpe etc
17:27.04cp15I have uploaded a new initrd one to the handhelds.org wiki
17:27.21immoloI'm just trying your new kernel and initrd now :P
17:27.34immolodoes this one pivot_root?
17:27.58cp15Yes, but you have to specify boot_mmc=y in haret startup.txt
17:28.19cp15If you don't it will boot into ramdisk
17:28.51immoloand it will load gpe-dm?
17:29.13cp15No, it will execute init from the sd card, which has to do the rest
17:30.35immolowell for now I will do ramdisk
17:31.06immoloit's been so long since i've messed with init not using rc-update
17:34.18cp15Yes, init might work, but there are things which will fail: touchscreen, network, etc...
17:34.28cp15So you don't have control over your device
17:55.05*** join/#htc-blueangel rob_w (n=bob@p213.54.155.82.tisdip.tiscali.de)
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17:55.46bhimahey rob.
18:04.48rob_whey
18:07.10immolook I'm finished baby juty so lets see what happens
18:07.58immolodoes the new haret doing anything?
18:15.55cp15It just activates audio in windows. This sets some yet unknown stuff and lets audio under linux work
18:17.33immolocool
18:17.46immoloright lets try test two
18:18.20immoloI really need to find out how to make fat16 on my linux box
18:18.45cp15In the initrd is a mkfs.msdos and mkfs.vfat
18:19.51immoloyeah but my linux boxes just don't like fat16
18:20.02immolofat32 no issue
18:20.20immoloI most probley need to add an option
18:21.38immolo....
18:22.26immolosometimes I think my ba dislike linux :P
18:23.12cp15What happened?
18:23.33immolocp15-  did you stop the ba from setting the ip 192.168.0.206?
18:23.49cp15No, it is still active
18:24.04immoloit doesn't get the ip when I boot
18:25.08cp15Does the message "usb0: full speed config #1: 100 mA, Ethernet Gadget, using CDC Ethernet Subset" appear on the screen?
18:25.17immolono
18:25.33cp15Do you get a usb0 on your host?
18:25.38immolonope :P
18:25.52cp15does lsusb show something?
18:25.57immolotwo secs
18:26.40immolowould being connected to synce have any issues?
18:26.48cp15Had you usb connected under windows? If not, this is still a bug
18:27.06cp15It shouldnt
18:27.13cp15what shows lsusb?
18:27.27immoloBus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
18:27.27immoloBus 003 Device 002: ID 046d:c501 Logitech, Inc. Cordless Mouse Receiver
18:27.27immoloBus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
18:27.27immoloBus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
18:27.27immoloBus 001 Device 009: ID 0781:8889 SanDisk Corp. SDDR-88 Imagemate 8-in-1 Reader
18:27.28immoloBus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
18:27.30immolono pda
18:28.57cp15Does dmesg say something about "device not accepting address"?
18:29.33immoloon the host? no
18:30.13cp15Is there a message CKEN=0x<something> on the screen?
18:30.32immolonope
18:31.01cp15Have you tried dis- and reconnecting usb?
18:31.09immoloyeah :P
18:31.16immolodo you need g_ether on the host?
18:31.56cp15No, g_ether is for the client. The driver on the host doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't see a device
18:32.40immolohmm maybe my hdd is playing up again
18:33.10immoloI'll let the system reboot and while I take a call
18:37.52rob_wmy house stuff is soon done to some extend , then i can also help mote  get this baby up and running
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18:45.44cp15Cool... I have a bit too many projects open now
18:46.52immolohaha
18:47.02cp15haha?
18:47.09immoloI had to pull the cable out and put it back in
18:48.17immolook I have to turn eth0 off for a little bit
18:48.27immoloI'll be back in a few with the status
19:06.13*** join/#htc-blueangel immolo (n=immolo@cpc1-cosh1-4-0-cust126.cos2.cable.ntl.com)
19:12.43*** join/#htc-blueangel Fiona (i=user@213.243.96.71)
19:28.58rob_whi Fiona
19:29.28rob_whow is it going Fiona
19:50.52cp15immolo: How does it work?
19:52.19*** join/#htc-blueangel JuNuKN (n=JuNuKN@K9c9a.k.pppool.de)
19:53.57cp15Hi JuNuKN, you were the creator of the "Are there NO news on the Linux development" thread, right?
19:54.59JuNuKNYes correct ..
19:56.13cp15How can we help you?
19:58.10JuNuKNYou can't help me, .. because I am using a wallaby only! I am Interrested in the actual progress. To learn fromn you
20:01.30cp15I have checked, the wallaby is really much different to the blueangel
20:03.17JuNuKNYeah you still explained ....
20:03.38JuNuKNDid you own only the blueangel?
20:04.28cp15Yes, currently only the blueangel. Maybe I will buy a universal later, but the blueangel has to work first
20:09.41JuNuKNDid you make the progress alone until now? Is the knowledge part of your business? I didn't know where to start to learn
20:12.17cp15No, not alone. The work done by cr2, sis, many others and last but not least you (if you woudn't have started the thread, the wiki about blueangel would have been nearly empty and I wouldn't have bought one) was absolutely necessary
20:14.26cp15I started modifying haret, because of the comments from sis and cr2 I assumed it wasn't working. I modified lots of things just to find out that my modifications break haret, and it worked without any changes
20:15.18cp15Then I implemented serial debug output in the linux kernel and saw that the initrd already worked
20:15.48cp15And so we got one little step after another
20:18.48cp15Have you already tried to boot the existing kernel?
20:20.45JuNuKNWonderfull ... and I couldn't believe, that I have to stay on this WinCE without such things like Java and so on to be able to use community software.
20:21.35cp15Well, there is currently no Java for the BA linux also...
20:21.39JuNuKNNo not yet, because of my status of linux newby
20:22.24cp15It's never to late to learn something new
20:24.36Funklordeek! java
20:24.59JuNuKNShure not. I think I am meanwhile a little familar with it, because of my experiences with VDR, TuxBox-Linux of DBOX2 and so on, but I am still far away from understanding driverdevelopement of unix
20:25.50cp15It is not that difficult. Biggest problem: If you made a mistake, you most likely have to reboot
20:27.27JuNuKNYeah same problem as with dbox2. No real debug-interface, only Log-Files and a lot of reboots and so on.
20:27.35Funklordwho's working on power saving?
20:28.29cp15Probably I after I have finished recording and dpram
20:28.38cp15Or do you want to take the job?
20:28.59FunklordI'm probably much too inexperienced
20:29.17cp15That doesn't count
20:29.18JuNuKNWith a familie you haven't this time to learn every aspects and spend so much time.
20:29.20FunklordI haven't worked with this hardware before
20:29.46cp15Like me 2 months ago
20:29.57Funklordheh
20:30.13Funklordgot any guesses on what's causing the power drain?
20:30.31Funklordone of the radios?
20:30.35cp15JuNuKN: Yes, sometimes it has advantages to be alone, more often not
20:31.00cp15I guess the SD card. It is maybe not deactivated properly
20:31.28cp15The GSM radio has to stay up, and wlan and bluetooth are usually not activated
20:31.56cp15Do you have experience in electronics?
20:32.10FunklordI'd like to take mine apart and do some measurements
20:32.40Funklordcp15: I've only done a few little projects, but the basics yes
20:32.51bhimaWith the h6300, the battery unlock switch is actually software.
20:33.07cp15You don't have to take it apart, but I think it would be very interesting to measure the battery current
20:33.11bhimaIn theory, I believe, you could power it externally and measure its power consumption with the battery removed.
20:33.38bhimaI don't know how the BA's battery lock switch works, though.
20:33.52cp15I don't think its a switch
20:34.21bhimaI'm pretty sure it disconnects power when I remove it...
20:34.26Funklordthere is a switch alright
20:34.36cp15Ok, I have to correct me. It is a switch
20:34.43cp15I have to reboot now :-)
20:35.27bhimaWinCE devices have had some sort of battery interlock for a long time.
20:35.51bhimaThe ones with non-replaceable batteries had a simple switch; the h5555 has some sort of switch built in to the battery clip, etc.
20:36.32cp15The battery has 4 contacts. Do you think the other 2 are used for something like getting temperature?
20:36.37bhimaYeah.
20:36.46bhimatemperature, and possibly some sort of ID.
20:37.02bhimaor power measurement, it's possible they stuck a resistor in there.
20:37.59Funklordsomebody said that some of these devices can't measure battery power, that it's a timer
20:38.37bhimaAnything with a lithium ion battery has the capability to do reasonable power measurement stuff.
20:39.12bhimapower management with a timer only would be unimaginably bad.
20:39.52bhimaMost of these systems can actually estimate how much your battery sucks compared to a new one :)
20:40.16Funklordheh... I think the measurements you get from wince are very bad, in comparison to most other mobile phones
20:40.40bhimaIn fact, it wouldn't surprsie me if it were possible to measure current consumption reasonably well without extra hardware. not sure though.
20:40.52bhimaMost phones suck compared to the Ericsson T39m. :)
20:41.11bhimaWinCE doesn't really have good algorithms running for that.
20:42.02Funklordcan't wait to run kismet on the BA =)
20:44.32cp15There are currently some problems with the acx100. But if you can do the powermanagement, I can continue on the acx100 driver
20:45.06bhimawhat specifically needs to be done for power management?
20:45.28cp15Find out why the battery lasts so short
20:45.52cp15Check all drivers if there is a possibility to save energy when the device goes into shutdown mode
20:46.30cp15Maybe fix the sleep code. Currently the cpu doesn't really suspend, it goes into idle mode.
20:47.13cp15This is because wakeup after suspend calls the reset vector which points into the boot loader which does some checks before calling windows?
20:47.26bhimaahh, ok.
20:48.25cp15Well, maybe not. I have to check again. But a few things in linux have to be changed since the bootloader has it's own imagination of what to find in certain registers and memory locations
20:50.32cp15But to know whether it's the cpus fault we have to measure the battery current.
20:50.45cp15Funklord: Do you think you can do it?
20:51.51Funklordhmm.. I'll have to take a look, but I'm extremely limited in time
20:52.11FunklordI work full time, and I'm renovating the flat
20:53.49bhimawoot. Sphinx2 fixed point!
20:54.05bhimaan actual open source speech recognition system.
20:54.12Funklordif you wanna see where I work, this is a movie I edited:
20:54.22Funklordhttp://www.vibes.se/stuff/2005-09-02_docteq_kraeftskiva.xvid.mkv
20:54.28bhima(the speech code I work on in my lab is, unfortunately, not open source)
20:54.34Funklordactually the first movie I ever edited =P
20:55.17bhimaWhat format is that?
20:55.29Funklordmatroska/xvid/vorbis
20:56.57Funklordyou probably need mplayer linked with xvid, libmatroska and libvorbis
20:57.19bhimaThough, VLC seems to play it.
20:57.27Funklordhmm.. yeah vlc does
20:57.37Funklordmplayer osx doesn't
20:59.27cp15My mplayer works, but my connection seems to slow to stream it
20:59.27bhimaSo, yeah, if you want a speech recognition system on your BA, you can probably run sphinx2 at 2x RT or so.
20:59.48cp15Yes? Cool
20:59.57bhimavlc doesn't seem to handle HTTP streams that are too slow.
21:00.16bhimaI literally just got an announcemnt in my inbox :)
21:00.46bhimaSomebody at CMU has been working on in for a few months, and has decided it's fast and stable enough to send to us.
21:01.08bhimathe floating point version was around 1/100 of RT ;)
21:01.37bhimaOn a 206Mhz strongarm, that is.
21:01.41bhimaI built it a few years ago.
21:02.51cp15Funklord: Nice company. What are you working?
21:03.39Funklordcp15: e-invoicing for the masses =P
21:04.15Funklordone of those branches which gets a lot of investors
21:05.18cp15Tell me more about it
21:06.08Funklordwe're partners with most of the major banks etc. and basically make sure that all their suppliers can deliver e-invoices
21:06.44Funklordthere's a unified, inexpensive solution/service they get
21:07.09Funklordworks with just about any business system
21:07.18cp15So they don't get a paper invoice?
21:07.32Funklordyep
21:07.48Funklordit gets fed straight into the receivers business system
21:08.12cp15This is very difficult in germany to get accepted by the government
21:08.37cp15The invoice has to be signed with a government approved key
21:08.38Funklordin finland for example, the government is forcing people to send e-invoices
21:08.55cp15And the receiver has to check the key
21:09.31Funklordhow does the sender get the key?
21:09.39Funklordis it one key per invoice?
21:09.47cp15No, one key per sender
21:10.01cp15They have to order it from the government
21:10.14cp15It is used to make sure the invoice can't be changed
21:10.24cp15And it is authentic
21:10.24Funklordah, that's the same in finland, they call it "net service id"
21:10.43Funklordoh.. it's an encryption key
21:11.05cp15Yes, I think it's x509 based
21:11.18Funklordthat sounds like edifact
21:12.42cp15Anyway it is much too complicated and I don't know anybody who uses it
21:12.49Funklordwith heartbeats and stuff
21:13.00Funklordto keep the connection alive
21:13.34Funklordwell.. it's kinda cool that the gov makes sure people use secure stuff =)
21:14.13Funklordover here they're only starting to get frauds because of all the relaxed security in such systems
21:14.15cp15On the other hand there are a lot of companies which send their invoice as pdf to print out. Which is illegal in a strict sense.
21:15.12cp15Well, the security in it is not to protect the people from getting false bills, but the government from having to pay back too much sales tax
21:16.09Funklordhow does that work?
21:17.01cp15If a company makes an invoice for another company, it first has to pay the sales tax to the government
21:17.21cp15The company which receives the invoice can get the sales tax back from the government
21:17.52cp15If the receiver is a person, it won't get anything back
21:18.20cp15So if you have a faked invoice, you can get the sales tax back from the government which has never been payed
21:18.36bhimaIn Pennsylvania, you have a number you give to be exempt from sales tax. The company won't charge you.
21:19.21Funklordcp15: ah but.. wouldn't the government check the other end of the deal?
21:19.55Funklordif the sale was declared by the seller company
21:19.58Funklord?
21:20.34cp15They do from time to time. But with the signature they can check immediately whether at least the sender is a valid company
21:21.34cp15And the invoice is still valid and no numbers have been changed
21:21.52Funklordok.. but it doesn't seem like a show-stopper to me
21:22.09Funklordsome of the banks put some pretty evil requirements on our users
21:22.37Funklordwe bundle key-card reader drivers, connection software etc.
21:23.09Funklordgemplus etc.
21:23.35bhimaWhy have the money go to the government in the first place? Why not just not charge tax on the sale?
21:24.37Funklordthe government likes this type of handling, it makes all mistakes either become their profit, or breaking the law
21:26.01cp15Exactly. So no company could say: Oops, didn't know the other party was a person and not a company.
21:27.18Funklordwhen I was running my company we had an accountant who did this stuff =P
21:27.32Funklordso I'm not very clear on all the rules
21:27.53cp15I wan't to know everything what happens in my company
21:28.12Funklordthat's good
21:29.45Funklordcp15: what business you in?
21:30.25cp15IT. I am selling mostly service to other companies.
21:30.26bhimaIn the US if they were wrong, then they, I believe, still need to pay the government the money.
21:30.38bhimaMaking a mistake doesn't fix that.
21:30.55Funklordcp15: what kind of service?
21:31.14bhimaOnly companies that re-sell to others are exempt, and only on things that are used for re-sale purposes.
21:31.48cp15Fixing things, making installations, improving existing installations
21:32.35Funklordanything BA related?
21:33.34cp15No, only Linux and Unix related
21:34.02immoloI still want a job that pays to use irc
21:34.13cp15My biggest customer is Audi where I am maintaining the production control system
21:34.41cp15A very critical system, if it fails, it takes only minutes to stop the complete factory
21:34.54Funklordcool
21:35.18FunklordI'd like to work on some mission-critical systems for once
21:37.27cp15Well, sometimes it's fun, but if they call you in the middle of the night because something doesn't work as expected, it isn't.
21:38.19Funklordok, let me rephrase that, "if they have realistic deadlines"
21:38.24Funklordheh
21:41.59JuNuKN... by the way. What do you think? How far your away from Linux for the BA, to USE GSM and Device under (for example) GPE.
21:43.22cp15I am already using it everyday.
21:44.04JuNuKNReally? Thought, it uses to much current and has no UI for Phone until now?
21:44.48cp15I charge it every evening and every morning, and there is a (alpha) UI available: gomunicator
21:46.07JuNuKNAnd GPE PIM is also available? Sorry, I didn't recognized wether you still be able to access SD Card memory!?
21:47.29cp15Yes, SD Card works, linux is installed on sd card. There is a todo, addressbook and calendar and some other things. But they are still a bit primitive
21:47.47immolocp15- want the good news?
21:47.54cp15But I like the gpe concept of using sqlite much more than the qpe xml stuff
21:47.59cp15It works?
21:48.04immolokinda :P
21:48.17Funklordsqlite <3
21:48.31immoloit loads but no touchscreen
21:48.41cp15Ok, let me look
21:49.02immolook let me put sophie to bed quick and then I'll dcc
21:49.08JuNuKN.... what loads?
21:49.10Funklordcp15: have you installed a toolchain on yours?
21:50.37cp15On the BA? No, doesn't make sense in my eyes
21:51.30Funklordheh.. ok
21:51.38FunklordI can't live without one
21:52.25cp15The cross tool chain is much faster and the device where it runs as a better keyboard :-)
21:53.10Funklordwhat if you wanna code somewhere you haven't got another box handy?
21:54.07FunklordI coded a lot of apps on my old psion 5mx
21:54.09immoloah compiling on crappy embedded hardware :D
21:54.17cp15Ok, convinced, maybe I will install one later :-)
21:54.55cp15A sd card with it's complete source code would be nice. So you can fix an urgent bug while flying over the atlantic.
21:55.30immolocp15 - I'm using robs initrd as it boot in after displaying some errors
21:56.05cp15What errors?
21:56.16immoloI did get quite far with your initrd until it some of my sdcard died
21:56.20immoloNo free VT
21:56.58immolowhich I'm pretty sure you made me look at, at the start of all this
21:57.52immolo:D guess what's been included into the oe tree
21:58.17cp15Your .bb files?
21:58.23immoloand machine config
21:58.41cp15Wow, we are really getting forward now
21:59.27immolohehe we are beating the wallaby now I think
22:00.04cp15Don't be so cruel, we have a wallaby user here
22:01.03immolo:P
22:01.05JuNuKN... yeah. Until now .... !
22:01.31immoloI'm compressing the stuff now cp
22:01.48cp15Ok, how big is it?
22:02.57JuNuKNI think you have more luck than the wallaby guys, - they seemed to stop the efforts. So they where not able to use the phone at all!
22:03.56JuNuKNIs it possible to switch between the CE and Linux without reflashing? I think about to buy one soon!
22:04.12cp15Being able to use the phone was an important motivation factor for me. As a linux fan I can't use a wince phone.
22:04.27JuNuKN... perhaps still need CE for Medion Navigator
22:04.36cp15In its current state it works as follows:
22:04.53cp15If you put the sd card in, linux will be loaded after a hard reset
22:05.02cp15If you don't windows will be loaded
22:05.51cp15But you need a hard reset to switch back to windows which means all your data will get lost and you have to make a backup before booting linux and restore it before being able to use windows again
22:06.01JuNuKN.... Great ... phantastic start! Ideal place to put a bootloader ... SD card.
22:06.54JuNuKNIt should be enought to use the stuff, hard to replace until now under linux
22:09.30JuNuKNI heard on heise or golem, that MS will provide a Streetnavigation until end of this month. Hopefully they will use net! So there may be a chance to reuse it under linux (mono) perhaps on the PDA. What do you think?
22:11.17cp15Are net binaries compatible between linux and windows?
22:11.57cp15I also have a street navigation in the drawer. I just have to polish and publish :-)
22:13.06JuNuKNThey should be ... if not using to much Windows-Forms stuff. But it is possible to decompile like java code ;o)
22:13.22immolothere are opensource streetmaps
22:13.33immoloerr gps
22:14.17FunklordI bet mono wouldn't fit on an SD card
22:14.18immolocp15-  also give me a second I may have found out why touchscreen failed
22:14.35cp15Yes, but they are not very good. My navigation system uses the map&guide map format, used in "Telefonbuch Map&Route" or "Marco Polo Grosser Reiseplaner"
22:14.36immoloyou can get 4gb sd now so I guess it could
22:14.46Funklordimmolo: who makes those?
22:15.04cp15Did you know sd cards > 4gb are impossible?
22:15.09immoloFunklord-  don't know but I know someone that can get me one
22:15.21cp15They used a very stupid protocol
22:15.26FunklordI thought 2gb was new =)
22:15.28immolomay of been 2gb
22:15.54immoloI was tried he offered it for a very low price and I said I would see
22:16.04immolostill ?40 for 2gb isn't bad
22:16.16Funklord40 what?
22:16.20Funklordeur?
22:16.22immolopounds
22:16.33Funklordthat's great
22:16.38immolodon't give me euro crap :P
22:16.54FunklordI saw them for more like 150eur
22:17.02Funklord=P
22:17.11immoloyeah I get free ink as well :D
22:17.34immolothere are perks to working in a bakery
22:17.37JuNuKNcp15: What means stupid protocol? Is it possible to correct card data right now?
22:18.16cp15The read command looks like read(offset_in_bytes,bytecount)
22:18.25cp15offset_in_bytes is a 32 bit number
22:18.33cp15You can't read beyond 4 GB
22:18.51Funklordreads must be fast then =)
22:19.11immolocp15-  isn't there software ways around it?
22:19.25immoloI remember seeing a simlar thing
22:19.43cp15They have to extend the protocol
22:19.44Funklordimmolo: can you get me one for that price too?
22:19.56immoloplus p&p
22:20.04cp15Which means that huge cards won't work in older devices
22:20.10immoloand a beer for the trouble
22:20.37Funklordhehe sure mate
22:20.46immolocp15-  I'll guess I'll looking at hooking a microdrive to my ba then
22:21.21immoloFunklord-  I'll see, I'm getting on for chirstmas so I'll ask for a second at the same time
22:21.35Funklordafaik microdrives aren't price effective compared to CF anymore
22:21.43cp15Is there a sd microdrive available?
22:21.53Funklordno
22:21.56immoloyeah but cf die quick
22:22.11immolocp15-  you can hook them up pretty easily I've read
22:22.24cp15And microdrives use much more power than the already hungry sd cards
22:22.33FunklordI wanna hook up a 2.5" drive
22:22.40immoloreally?
22:22.46Funklordthey do
22:22.48immoloI was told md uses less
22:23.00immoloand I thought sd was bad
22:23.46FunklordI've tried microdrives in several cameras that couldn't power them up
22:24.02Funklord(instead of CF)
22:24.06cp15They may be ok for cameras, since they are in use only short, but for a pda... Don't think so
22:24.28cp15On the other hand the newest zaurus is with microdrive. I wonder why they have done it
22:24.48Funklordit's better storage obviously =)
22:25.02FunklordI'd have preferred a BA with a hdd
22:25.19immololol the ba is chubby as it is
22:25.58immolowithout sticking a 160gb laptop drive on the back
22:26.01Funklord120Gb version of the BA
22:26.15immoloFunklord-  it's been done
22:26.23immoloit's called an nfs root :P
22:27.16immolosorry that wasn't funny
22:27.45immoloanyway any news on wlan yet cp?
22:29.10cp15No, does not yet work
22:29.20immoloshame
22:29.24cp15But dpram is close to completion
22:29.42cp15Which mean data calls and gprs will work
22:30.02immolohow are you starting gprs connections?
22:30.21cp15With a at command with many stars in it
22:30.36immoloI mean in gui :P
22:30.58cp15You type in the stars via the keyboard and press dial :-))))
22:31.39immololol, it's just if you add support for connecting via a button please add a way to turn the damn thing off
22:31.55immoloI got a ?400 gprs charge in a month
22:32.54immoloah I've solved the problem with touchscreen I think
22:32.59cp15Oops, how that?
22:33.01immoloyou wanna try that version
22:33.30immolocp15-  leaving irc on for a month connecting to busy channels :P
22:33.52cp15Was it an accident or on purpose?
22:34.03immoloa bit of both
22:34.25cp15GPRS is extremely expensive
22:34.40immolo?2 a meg with O2
22:34.57cp15And in germany they charge the same fee for umts. Per kilobyte
22:35.19immoloumts is pretty much free over here
22:35.27Funklordwe pay about 1.7eur/Mb
22:35.35FunklordI still think it's expensive
22:36.05immoloFunklord-  I only use it to double check ebay quick with the images off :P
22:36.38FunklordI use it for e-mail
22:36.57immoloanyway give me 5 minutes and I will have a dirty hacked initrd for loading the distro
22:37.04Funklordbut very little nowadays, since the company switched to exchange
22:37.20Funklordbasically I have to go to work to access my e-mail
22:37.27Funklordbastards
22:37.50immoloFunklord-  I have to use webmail, nothing is worse then that
22:38.17Funklordexchange webmail doesn't work properly, so I'm exempt =))
22:38.31immoloheh
22:39.21Funklordwonder if it's possible to configure an outlook, running at work, automatically upload them to an IMAP server
22:39.50cp15exchange also supports imap
22:39.56Funklordnot ours
22:40.09Funklordbecause the admin is a lazy bum
22:40.18immoloFunklord-  or find the servers and run fdisk
22:40.35cp15You could configure automatic forwarding, but at Audi it doesn't work for external adresses
22:41.18Funklordhmm.. but forwarding will mangle the e-mails
22:42.46Funklordimmolo: your suggestion is good, but instead of fdisk, a baseball bat
22:43.07immolowhy waste good hardware
22:43.31Funklordyou obviously haven't seen office space =)
22:44.08immolook replace good hardware with a good linux challage hardware setup
22:44.45FunklordI put knoppix in one guys box once
22:45.01Funklordhe almost fell off his chair when he came back from lunch
22:45.17immolocp15 - snd-oss-mixer needs to be loaded after blueangel_audio?
22:45.26immoloFunklord-  haha
22:45.35cp15Yes
22:45.55cp15But you can also load it before. It just won't appear a mixer
22:46.16immolobest to see where we stand
22:48.47immolooh one question I've been meaning to ask is what is the difference between an 0x5 board and an 0x6 board
22:50.39cp15The LCD display. 0x5 has a Sony, 0x6 has a Toppoly one
22:50.50immolocool I have a sony :P
22:52.50cp15Please enter your device at http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=BlueangelBoardIDs
22:53.28immoloit's pretty much the same as the german 02 one but black I think
22:53.45cp15Ok, dpram does work now, but I will test gprs tomorrow.
22:54.17cp15I am going to bed now
22:54.20Funklordwhat's dpram?
22:54.28Funklordis it where wince is stored?
22:54.49immolocp15- two secs I'll see if it's worth sending my beta/alpha quick
22:55.21Funklord(the installer)
22:55.43cp15Dual ported ram. The GSM part has two interfaces to the main cpu. One is an uart, used for command transfer, and one is a dual ported ram, to which both cpus have access and is used for gprs and csd data transfer
22:55.49immoloI'm a moron
22:56.04immoloI forgot to add an oldroot to the newroot :P
22:56.05cp15Why, did you a rm -rf /?
22:56.31Funklordoh ok =P
22:56.55immolono that's just being out of order to morons cp15
22:57.39immolomost distros stop it anyway now
22:57.40cp15I once have tried on a machine. There were still a handfull of files left :-)
22:58.23immoloI did rm -rf * in my / rather then a chroot once once
22:58.42cp15And what happened?
22:58.45immoloI didn't lose too much
22:59.00FunklordI did one on ~ once
22:59.45Funklordluckily kde puts a lot of conf crap there which took a while
23:00.02Funklordso hitting ctrl-c I didn't lose much
23:00.05immoloheh finally a use for bloated kde
23:00.09cp15:-) You alway notice when rm does something unexpected if it takes too long
23:00.34immolocp15-  Yeah like deleting a years worth of TV shows :P
23:01.21Funklordmore serious is bugs that most gui file browsers seem to have
23:01.21cp15And the liked rm * .o is still fast :-)
23:01.54Funklordmove files around long enough, and you'll notice them mystically dissapearing
23:02.08cp15Even under linux?
23:02.16Funklordespecially under linux
23:02.19immoloFunklord-  This is why I stick to Rox-Filer
23:02.38cp15A mv should be an atomic operation, even for a file browser
23:02.54Funklordall gui browsers I tried 1-2 yrs ago had these kinds of problems
23:03.34immolook cp15 I've can't hack the initrd :P
23:03.37Funklordan especially common one is.. moving a directory onto itself deletes it
23:03.44immoloyou still want the distro?
23:04.16cp15Just send it
23:06.40immoloI'll turn mldonkey off again
23:08.39immolobut at least I've very happy blueangel has been included into oe
23:20.55cp15I think we have to use fakeroot. su is suid immolo :-)
23:21.41immoloI can un do that anyway :P
23:22.03cp15Ok, thanks, I will look into it tomorrow
23:22.30cp15Thanks for your good work and good night
23:22.34immolocool, I'm going to play tonight but I hope this works good :P
23:22.38immolonight
23:57.34Funklordnight y'all =)

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