| 00:02.38 | bhima | I don't think we've put the paper up on your web site yet - I'll let you know when it's up. I do think that, right now, the work is really only at the early stages, and is more of a platform for plugging interesting algorithms into rather than useful yet. We do have a student working for us right now doing a (I forget the German word, something like a thesis) on interesting algorithms for decision making. |
| 00:05.00 | cp15 | Ok. Thanks. I think we need a killer feature to let people move from windows to linux. Something like this might be it. |
| 00:07.15 | bhima | Mmm. I think that really good contact integrated contact management, task management, and contextual knowledge of people might help a lot. |
| 00:09.06 | cp15 | Do you have any specific ideas? |
| 00:10.17 | bhima | I have some ideas about task management / scheduling software that I'd like to implement. I think that linking communications with tasks would be useful as well. |
| 00:10.41 | bhima | When I call somebody, or send an e-mail or SMS, that should usually be linked with some purpose. |
| 00:11.05 | bhima | In terms of scheduling software, I usually find that I have a list of things to do with various contraints. |
| 00:11.31 | bhima | I don't find that the usual model of selecting a time for each task, _or_ a To-Do list with deadlines, works that well. |
| 00:11.41 | bhima | Some things have times, but not everything. |
| 00:11.50 | bhima | so I'd like to start the day and look at what things I should do. |
| 00:11.59 | bhima | and select one of them and say I'm going to do that for an hour. |
| 00:12.14 | bhima | Then have it beep at me and tell me it's time to do something else. |
| 00:12.48 | bhima | if I have 5 hours of tasks due today, and 4 hours left, I'd like a constraint satisfaction warning. |
| 00:13.22 | bhima | Tasks could have various constraints such as time deadlines, order, they could require I be some place, or that I work with some person. |
| 00:14.48 | cp15 | Sounds great. Do you have a list of such things? When I get something new, I have thousand ideas what could be improved, but the longer I work with the device, the more the ideas disappear... |
| 00:15.21 | bhima | I don't have any documents written on this right now. It's just in my head. It is evolving a lot... |
| 00:19.12 | bhima | I should write more and scribble some user interfaces... |
| 00:21.21 | cp15 | I am currently working with gpe (gtk-based). Sometimes things work very nice and easy, sometimes not. For example to be able to use the "Make Call" button to redial a previous number, I had to call about 5 complicated functions to get the currently selected number |
| 00:24.30 | bhima | I need to, at some point, just select some widgit toolkit and learn it. |
| 00:24.53 | bhima | I think that will probably be gtk/maemo, since the Nokia 770 is a very promising platform. |
| 00:25.10 | bhima | I should be able to keep stuff running on standard gtk, I believe. |
| 00:25.20 | cp15 | What is maemo? |
| 00:25.34 | bhima | http://maemo.org/ The open source part of the Nokia 770. |
| 00:25.43 | bhima | gtk-based application environment. |
| 00:27.16 | cp15 | Ah... They have an email client... I haven't found a useable one yet. They were either too simple or too fat |
| 00:27.56 | bhima | heh. I'll see what it's like when I get mine. I'm pretty sure that, at least right now, the e-mail client isn't opened. They've been working to open more parts up. |
| 00:29.41 | cp15 | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/1.0/applications just contains maemopad with nearly 20kBytes of code :-( |
| 00:30.34 | bhima | They're really busy with debugging and release foo. |
| 00:32.47 | cp15 | What resolution does the nokia have? |
| 00:33.28 | bhima | 800x480, around 220 dpi. |
| 00:33.40 | bhima | maemo is currently fixed resolution only, sadly. |
| 00:34.03 | bhima | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Nokia_770_Hardware_Specification |
| 00:34.28 | cp15 | That will make it a bit hard to adapt it to a pda phone |
| 00:35.24 | bhima | Yes. I would probably have two slightly different versions of the code. |
| 00:35.29 | cp15 | But the other specs (except g wlan) are way worse than the blueangel ones |
| 00:36.10 | bhima | It's expected to cost around Eu300. |
| 00:37.01 | bhima | I wouldn't mind more DRAM, but I don't really mind the CPU speed. |
| 00:37.17 | bhima | However, I will definitely be using my blueangel with it. |
| 00:37.38 | cp15 | Yeah, but this means that the BA should be (except for the resolution) easily run the apps |
| 00:38.35 | cp15 | I don't understand why they put so less dram in the devices. 64 MB were appropriate in the old zaurus days, but now 128 MB should be standard |
| 00:38.39 | bhima | porting maemo to the blue angel might be annoying; apps themselves are gtk based so it should be easy to keep code in sync. |
| 00:39.16 | cp15 | I have seen they extended the gtk widget set. I hope they implemented good geometry management |
| 00:43.42 | cp15 | So, I will go to bed now. |
| 00:43.46 | cp15 | Good night |
| 00:43.49 | bhima | night. |
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| 08:24.16 | *** mode/#htc-blueangel [+o cp15] by ChanServ |
| 08:24.25 | cp15 | Good morning |
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| 15:52.49 | cp15 | Hi pH5 |
| 15:53.11 | pH5 | hi cp15 |
| 15:53.30 | cp15 | Did you get something interesting from haret? |
| 15:54.16 | bhima | hey guys. |
| 15:54.22 | pH5 | i didn't find the time yet, i guess i know why you asked now. |
| 15:54.41 | cp15 | Ok, I know this problem :-) |
| 15:54.46 | cp15 | Hi bhima |
| 15:54.56 | cp15 | alsa-bluetooth did not work |
| 15:55.28 | cp15 | The headset activated the audio, but there was only very low frequency static noise to hear |
| 15:56.00 | bhima | Interesting. What headset? |
| 15:57.38 | bhima | eww. Glade-2 on OS X has a bit of an issue with tooltips. They are underneath the window :) |
| 15:58.07 | cp15 | According to fcc id: http://www.v-three.com/V3%20BTH1+%20UG.pdf |
| 15:58.13 | cp15 | Maybe it was too cheap :-) |
| 16:00.18 | cp15 | Do you know a useful algorithm for looking up numbers in the addressbook? I think there are 9 cases: |
| 16:01.16 | cp15 | (Number with +,Number with 0,Number without 0 at the beginning dialled) x (Number with +, Number with 0, Number without 0 at the beginning in the addressbook) |
| 16:02.07 | bhima | Oh, you mean you want to know if you should add a country code or something to the number? |
| 16:02.22 | bhima | So, the answer is, that is a hard problem. |
| 16:03.02 | cp15 | No, maybe (ehmm... sure) I am a lazy guy and put the number of a friend as 089xyzabc in the contacts |
| 16:03.19 | cp15 | If my friend calls me, I will get +4989xyzabc |
| 16:04.15 | bhima | Right. Fully solving that problem is quite hard. I believe most phones do something lazy, which could include matching the right-most N digits of the number. |
| 16:04.54 | bhima | To convert 089xyz to the proper form, you need the prior assumption that 49 is the country code. |
| 16:05.12 | bhima | You also need to know that in +49, '0' is the prefix for out of area long distance. |
| 16:05.43 | bhima | That should let you convert to a better form. |
| 16:05.49 | cp15 | Yeah, and if my friend is on the same network, i also have to guess the dial prefix |
| 16:06.16 | bhima | If they're on the same network, you don't need to dial the area code? |
| 16:06.45 | cp15 | No, if I have +49172abc as number, and my friend +49172def, I can just dial def |
| 16:06.56 | bhima | Eww. |
| 16:07.14 | bhima | Well, then, you need to have a concept of default country code, and default area code. |
| 16:08.13 | cp15 | That probably means the user has to configure his phone before using it... Hmm... |
| 16:08.15 | bhima | If an incoming number starts with the long distance access code for the current country, then you convert it to an appropriate canonical representation. |
| 16:08.33 | bhima | Yes. I do not think it is possible to properly solve this without at least some config. |
| 16:08.55 | bhima | Hmm. I also don't recall what happens for incoming calls if you're roaming. |
| 16:09.10 | cp15 | How do other phone operating systems solve this problem? |
| 16:09.30 | bhima | They guess based on right-most digits. |
| 16:09.34 | cp15 | They have the same +[country-code] syntax |
| 16:09.48 | bhima | But you're not guaranteed to get a + on all incoming calls. |
| 16:09.56 | cp15 | Really? |
| 16:10.03 | cp15 | Oh no |
| 16:10.29 | cp15 | That will be quite hard to code in sql :-( |
| 16:10.43 | bhima | I know when I was roaming in Germany with a US SIM, I got incoming caller ID that didn't work for outgoing :) |
| 16:10.52 | bhima | hmm. wait. |
| 16:10.54 | bhima | I may be wrong. |
| 16:11.28 | bhima | I know that multiple dial strings resulted in my phone thinking that the call was to person Foo. |
| 16:11.39 | bhima | I don't recall if that was incoming, or just outgoing. |
| 16:12.08 | bhima | I know that in my "recent calls" list, I saw a list of "Foo", "Foo", "Foo", but that the phone used the _actual_ number rather than the stored version. |
| 16:12.16 | bhima | So some of them worked and some didn't :) |
| 16:12.23 | bhima | And, no, you aren't going to do this in SQL. :/ |
| 16:12.38 | bhima | I think you should convert all numbers into a canonical reprsentation. |
| 16:12.45 | bhima | Country code, number code. |
| 16:13.27 | bhima | When you go through the address book on the SIM, you convert numbers into that format. |
| 16:14.09 | cp15 | That would be useful, but then I have to load the complete addressbook from sqlite |
| 16:14.35 | cp15 | convert every number to a canonical format and compare it |
| 16:15.00 | cp15 | If you want to do it dynamically on call lists, and you have many contacts, it will be slow |
| 16:15.26 | bhima | Directly after you read it from the SIM card, you will convert it to the canonical form |
| 16:16.10 | cp15 | Yeah, but not all contacts are from sim card. Maybe I have entered one manually or got one via bluetooth, irda, sms or whatever |
| 16:16.22 | bhima | Before you store those, convert them to canonical form. |
| 16:17.20 | bhima | Maybe I'm not understanding. Why do you think that the canonical conversion will add any significant overhead...? |
| 16:17.29 | cp15 | Maybe one could add an additional field to the database: canonical value. But this means a relatively big change in contacts |
| 16:19.00 | bhima | I think it's important to convert to canonical form as quickly as possible. If you have, say, a phone number on your local cellular network stored on your database, and swap SIM cards, you'll break everything. |
| 16:20.18 | cp15 | Yes, I know this problem :-) But the user probably knows best what he wants to put into the phone number fields |
| 16:20.45 | bhima | Make the user select or approve the canonical conversion. |
| 16:21.42 | cp15 | That would be a nice solution, even for a lazy one like me :-) |
| 16:23.31 | cp15 | I will check the sim card information. Maybe it contains something which helps |
| 16:23.46 | immolo | Will there be an updated version of the sd image soon? I wouldn't mind being able to boot fully into linux and see if I can add anything myself |
| 16:23.55 | bhima | Nope. There's no way to know your phone number from a SIM card. :( |
| 16:24.03 | bhima | The SIM card _might_ have your phone number. |
| 16:24.06 | bhima | But no promise. |
| 16:24.14 | bhima | It will have your IMSI though. |
| 16:24.26 | bhima | And, actually, it _might_ tell you your GSM country code... |
| 16:24.35 | bhima | ...and maybe your provider... |
| 16:25.10 | bhima | does each provider use just one area code in Germany? |
| 16:26.07 | bhima | I have a database of country name, country code, and long distance accessor numbers. |
| 16:26.36 | bhima | I don't know for sure how accurate it is, but it seems to be. I can send it to you if you want. |
| 16:29.36 | cp15 | There is a "Mobile station ISDN number" file on the sim card. But I don't know if it has to be there and it probably contains only a number without a structure |
| 16:30.20 | bhima | SIM cards have a space to store your phone number. The number there is changeable by the user and is not guaranteed to be accurate. |
| 16:30.40 | bhima | I think you should make a database of IMSI numbers and settings so people like me can swap our 15 or 20 SIM cards around our phones happily. :) |
| 16:31.41 | bhima | also, re: what immolo said, is there an updated image that can boot into gommunicator, etc? |
| 16:31.45 | cp15 | German poviders have several area codes. The bigger ones have three.two in the old gsm area and one in the umts area |
| 16:32.22 | bhima | Ok. SO that means that knowing the provider doesn't guarantee you know the area code even. |
| 16:32.43 | bhima | We could try to keep a database of provider and area code and country code stuff updated. |
| 16:33.28 | cp15 | And... Even more horrible... The numbers are portable... So you can take your vodafone number to t-mobile and so on |
| 16:33.38 | bhima | Yeah, same in the US. |
| 16:33.53 | bhima | So I think that prompting the user to enter the info is best |
| 16:34.18 | bhima | Some people might also enter an international number as "011 49 123456" |
| 16:34.41 | bhima | or whatever their local country's version of + is. |
| 16:35.04 | cp15 | Oh yeah, this is in germany also possible... I forgot this case |
| 16:35.29 | cp15 | Makes 16 possibilities... |
| 16:35.58 | bhima | so when you look at an address book, you need to look at the international list of those codes and see which ones are possible. :) |
| 16:36.59 | cp15 | As for the image... There is one at the handhelds.org wiki. But I haven't test it, and it definetly doesn't include the newest gomunicator (because I am working on it right now :-) |
| 16:37.51 | bhima | I have a really busy week. Tell me when I can have the device running and doing something cute with <15 minutes of easy work. :) |
| 16:38.12 | bhima | After I get back from Italy, I will be a _lot_ more relaxed. |
| 16:39.13 | cp15 | Ok, then its probably best to wait until you are back. I don't have time to fix everything what is broken and still be able to push development forward |
| 16:39.46 | bhima | I understand entirely. I don't want you to stop development so I can spend 30 minutes saying, "ooh, shiny!" to it :) |
| 16:39.59 | bhima | Right now I'm playing with glade-2. |
| 16:40.09 | bhima | and reading through Newton widget docs. |
| 16:40.19 | bhima | Trying to figure out where I will go next for development. |
| 16:40.29 | cp15 | But a person which maintains a little distribution would be nice. Any volunteers? |
| 16:40.58 | bhima | What does that entail? |
| 16:41.56 | cp15 | Collecting patches, compiling applications and creating a initrd and a root filesystem which is "ready to use" |
| 16:44.12 | bhima | Ok. I would be willing to take that on, I think. I will need to setup more toolchains of course. |
| 16:44.22 | bhima | compiled my first gtk+ app! :) |
| 16:44.37 | cp15 | Hello world? ;-) |
| 16:44.56 | bhima | not even that. I just used glade with random widgets. |
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| 16:45.46 | cp15 | glade is nice, but it is a bit hard to draw the line what has to be done in glade and what in the application |
| 16:45.53 | bhima | Yes. |
| 16:45.59 | bhima | That is a very common problem. |
| 16:46.14 | bhima | My preferred widget editors draw that line a bit more interestingly. |
| 16:46.25 | bhima | The Newton Toolkit was a combo GUI designer and IDE. :) |
| 16:47.07 | cp15 | Ah... Ok... But this requires a lot of understanding of the code in the IDE |
| 16:47.26 | bhima | Yes. |
| 16:47.54 | bhima | itw as highly object oriented. |
| 16:48.07 | bhima | The code was directly intertwined with the widgets themselves. |
| 16:48.27 | cp15 | Sounds hard to debug |
| 16:49.34 | bhima | I think it's actually easier to debug than other setups. |
| 16:51.27 | cp15 | You are the expert in newton toolkit :-) |
| 16:51.47 | bhima | There are other things using similar principles, but most of them are research projects. |
| 16:52.08 | cp15 | So, I will continue coding now... I want to have the sms handling finished today, because today is the last day where internal smses are free |
| 16:52.08 | bhima | Retained object frameworks are more object oriented, and make it easier for you to know where things are hapening. |
| 16:52.23 | bhima | Ok, cool. I'll be around, but I need to do some house cleaning now too. |
| 16:52.53 | cp15 | I should do some cleaning too :-( |
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| 19:39.12 | Funklord | can't wait to get my qtek 9090 back from the service centre so I can test those images |
| 19:43.35 | cp15 | What happened to it? |
| 19:47.23 | Funklord | umm, a lot of problems cropped up |
| 19:47.54 | Funklord | glitchy keys, the headset broke, and the wireless is acting weird |
| 19:47.55 | bhima | The first one I got had a really unreliable touch screen. |
| 19:48.11 | Funklord | never had any probs with that though =) |
| 19:48.34 | Funklord | the wireless.. _could_ be a software problem though |
| 19:48.53 | Funklord | but it's pretty heavily used |
| 19:48.57 | bhima | It would sometimes produce zig-zags, and would need recalibration every two or three days. |
| 19:49.05 | bhima | How good is their service? |
| 19:49.34 | Funklord | they outsource it to a company here called "Engströms" |
| 19:49.54 | Funklord | I don't know how good yet though |
| 19:50.39 | Funklord | hope I can afford another once it finally braks down =/ |
| 19:50.46 | Funklord | *breaks |
| 19:50.59 | Funklord | I'd love to have an extra, in order to do some hacking |
| 19:51.10 | Funklord | since I need to use it for work |
| 19:51.53 | bhima | Mine is a work device. In 2 weeks or so, I think I'm going to be switching it to linux full time for work, so that's good. |
| 19:52.08 | Funklord | bhima: what parts have you been working on? |
| 19:52.19 | cp15 | You seem to be pretty optimistic :-) |
| 19:52.33 | bhima | Nothing, yet. I've just been talking. |
| 19:52.38 | Funklord | I found those wikis the other day.. and I was like wow, you guys have done shitloads in very short time |
| 19:52.55 | bhima | cp15: bluetooth works, the phone stuff works... |
| 19:53.42 | cp15 | But still no system audio :-( |
| 19:54.00 | bhima | I don't use the audio much. The only time I care about the audio is when the phone rings... |
| 19:54.12 | bhima | and wince kills the system audio to about 1/3 normal level when there's a phone call incoming. |
| 19:54.26 | bhima | So that makes it kinda useless for making the phone ring. |
| 19:54.59 | Funklord | you know you can give wince ringtones in wma/wave right? |
| 19:55.36 | Funklord | it took me a while to figure out which dir =P |
| 19:57.47 | cp15 | And the speaker can be pretty loud. In one of my tries, holding it on my ear, thinking the sound might be very soft, I got nearly deaf |
| 19:58.09 | Funklord | ah yeah, I almost stepped on the phone once |
| 19:58.44 | Funklord | I was supposed to answer, then that message "call could not be received" comes up, with a loud DING! |
| 19:59.05 | Funklord | that really pissed me off, microsoft style |
| 19:59.25 | Funklord | i have a short temper when it comes to bad design |
| 20:01.59 | Funklord | hopefully, it can be solved with proper OSS interface design |
| 20:02.29 | cp15 | Does anybody know how to send linked sms (like smses split into 160 byte parts)? |
| 20:02.58 | bhima | I want to play context-sensitive ring-tones - it will decide based on both who's calling, and the current situation, what level and what ring tone to play... |
| 20:03.16 | Funklord | it's some kind of extended char that gets embedded in the message |
| 20:03.19 | bhima | cp15: no, but I can probably send you one if you want to disect it :) |
| 20:03.53 | bhima | funk: You shouldn't be using a microsoft OS if you ahve a short temper for bad design :) |
| 20:03.56 | cp15 | I know how they look when they are received, but the flag for "more to come" is not available when sending |
| 20:05.21 | bhima | gnokii is supposed to do that, as is now SMS. |
| 20:05.26 | Funklord | bhima: my phone came with an app like that, let's you choose groups, photos, and ringtones probably |
| 20:05.46 | Funklord | (for wince) |
| 20:05.50 | bhima | funk: yes, but can your app change the ring tone when the camera in the room has figured out that you're in a meeting? :) |
| 20:06.19 | Funklord | bhima: hehe |
| 20:06.37 | Funklord | I'd prefer a physical switch between maybe 4 modes |
| 20:06.50 | bhima | my phone can do that. |
| 20:06.58 | Funklord | one that you can actually feel, which mode it's in |
| 20:07.38 | Funklord | I'm using pocketpc because I can't find a single phone with linux yet |
| 20:08.00 | Funklord | and now my hopes are up =) |
| 20:08.21 | Funklord | has anyone tried to contact HTC? |
| 20:08.52 | Funklord | just wondering if they give a damn about the demand for linux |
| 20:09.38 | Funklord | bhima: so what exactly does the camera look for, to know that it is in a meeting? |
| 20:10.20 | bhima | funk: right now we have a hack. There's a face recognition camera pointing at the door to figure out if you've entered the room or not, to determine whether the room state applies to you. |
| 20:10.41 | bhima | funk: then, we have an overhead wide-angle camera in the center of the room. |
| 20:10.53 | bhima | If there are people moving around the meeting table, it's a meeting. :) |
| 20:11.11 | cp15 | But how does the phone know? |
| 20:11.32 | bhima | The phone's in communication with the room infrastructure over wifi, or GPRS. |
| 20:11.47 | Funklord | that's crazy integration |
| 20:11.50 | Funklord | haha |
| 20:12.25 | Funklord | how about just placing an rfid pin on everyone and triangulating them instead? |
| 20:12.48 | bhima | We can actually make the phone ring other devices in the room. |
| 20:12.57 | bhima | we have an directional speaker. |
| 20:13.19 | bhima | it's on a pan/tilt unit. When there's an incoming call, it can direct that towards you and play a ring tone. |
| 20:13.21 | bhima | Or speak the caller. |
| 20:13.49 | bhima | funk: RFID triangulation is probably a more complicated problem. |
| 20:14.12 | bhima | funk: however, the development of the vision and acoustic technologies is a fundamental part of the research project. |
| 20:14.48 | Funklord | it's damn hard to recognise faces |
| 20:15.13 | Funklord | a large part of our brains is dedicated to it |
| 20:15.25 | Funklord | we really look very similar |
| 20:15.45 | bhima | Mmmm. That's where probability estimates and sensor fusion come in to play. |
| 20:15.56 | Funklord | that's why you won't easily recognise a face that's upside down |
| 20:16.03 | bhima | An n-best match, combined with speaker ID can also help. |
| 20:17.03 | Funklord | anyhow, I'm interested in getting the sound going first =P |
| 20:17.26 | bhima | But, I agree, it's hard. We are supposed to be a leading research university, though, so we should have some people able to make at least some progress on the task. |
| 20:18.00 | bhima | Yeah, I want sound to work too. I would really like arbitrary ring tones, and VoIP. |
| 20:18.53 | Funklord | cp15: have you checked these resources? http://tuxmobil.org/phones_linux_sms.html |
| 20:19.09 | Funklord | there might be source code to point you in the right direction |
| 20:20.36 | Funklord | hmm.. most of them are closed source |
| 20:20.55 | Funklord | only thing I can think of... is dumping the serial streams |
| 20:21.04 | cp15 | No, I haven't, but thanks for the link. I will check them later... Basic SMS is working now |
| 20:21.24 | Funklord | I never send multipart sms |
| 20:21.55 | Funklord | since you never know if the receivers phone supports it |
| 20:22.40 | cp15 | It doesn't matter. The phone gets then in parts if it doesn't support it |
| 20:23.02 | Funklord | not true |
| 20:23.06 | cp15 | Sure? |
| 20:23.18 | Funklord | it detects them as binary data, and refuses to show them |
| 20:23.34 | Funklord | since there are extended chars |
| 20:24.10 | cp15 | Hmm... Ok... Then there seem to be 3 categories here |
| 20:24.20 | Funklord | it's annoying that some phones have multipart as default setting |
| 20:24.46 | Funklord | since unknowing users will sometimes send legible sms, and other times unreadable |
| 20:26.37 | Funklord | I'd like to know how the gprs quota/price system really works |
| 20:27.05 | Funklord | I mean, if you could get away with sending messages similar to sms, cheaper via gprs |
| 20:28.28 | Funklord | it seems that most nets, utilise some kind of rounding, so you pay for more traffic than you actually use |
| 20:28.45 | Funklord | what that value is based on, is a mystery |
| 20:34.04 | bhima | Most networks round per-session. |
| 20:39.23 | bhima | I think it's usually documented. |
| 21:13.03 | Funklord | yeah, and the sessions get cut off regularly most of the time |
| 21:13.19 | Funklord | especially if you're moving |
| 21:14.05 | Funklord | think it's way too expensice still |
| 21:14.10 | Funklord | *expensive |
| 21:15.40 | bhima | Really? I don't have problems moving around this city. |
| 21:17.59 | Funklord | I paid about 10eur to receive a 4mb file once |
| 21:19.15 | bhima | ouch. |
| 21:19.35 | bhima | I currently pay around Eu1/MB. |
| 21:19.48 | bhima | When I go back to the US, I will pay $6/month for unlimited :) |
| 21:20.09 | cp15 | A collegue of me payed 20 Euros for syncing his Emails |
| 21:20.16 | cp15 | one time |
| 21:23.34 | cp15 | I think I have to check the suspend code... Battery life is < 24h :-( |
| 21:27.34 | Funklord | if your gprs provider offers a "free" portal, I could hook you guys up with a solution which may possibly give you free gprs in linux |
| 21:28.10 | Funklord | but we can talk about that later =) |
| 21:28.22 | Funklord | it may be expensive to test too |
| 21:28.35 | cp15 | Does it use ip tunneling over dns? |
| 21:28.50 | Funklord | yes |
| 21:28.52 | Funklord | heh |
| 21:29.06 | Funklord | does it work? |
| 21:29.43 | cp15 | I haven't tried it with gprs, but with wireless lan in a hotel. Performance and round trip time were excellent |
| 21:30.00 | bhima | I have free WAP. |
| 21:30.31 | Funklord | yeah, I use it here, on a wlan that's available just about everywhere |
| 21:30.43 | bhima | Do be aware that doing that is likely fraud, legallly speaking. |
| 21:31.07 | Funklord | it seems with current radius server solutions you can't really do anything about it |
| 21:31.45 | Funklord | heh.. as long as it doesn't get wide spread, they won't care |
| 21:32.15 | cp15 | Ah, I think the providers are aware of it. Lufthansa now offers internet in the sky on some flights. I know someone who knows the administrator of the system. He said: People who can do that are so cool, they are allowed to do it :-) |
| 21:32.56 | Funklord | haha |
| 21:33.04 | Funklord | like spoken by a true admin |
| 21:33.43 | bhima | Hmm. |
| 21:34.23 | Funklord | I'm more concerned about powering my laptop |
| 21:34.41 | Funklord | they rarely have any outlets in economy class |
| 21:35.07 | cp15 | You need a big bag of backup batteries |
| 21:35.08 | bhima | I don't have an inverter here, sadly.. |
| 21:35.24 | bhima | Back in Pittsburgh, I have a few 15Ah lead acid batteries. |
| 21:35.27 | Funklord | yeah, my ibm has 3 batteries |
| 21:35.35 | bhima | 80 or so, I believe. |
| 21:35.46 | Funklord | two normal ones, and one for the drive bay |
| 21:35.51 | Funklord | so you can switch |
| 21:36.01 | Funklord | it was damn pricey though |
| 21:36.12 | Funklord | the one for the drive bay |
| 21:36.25 | bhima | All the recent PowerBooks let you switch in sleep, except the 12". |
| 21:36.39 | Funklord | hmm.. I didn't try that |
| 21:36.45 | Funklord | so it doesn't die? |
| 21:36.53 | Funklord | there's a capacitor? |
| 21:36.54 | bhima | Correct. |
| 21:37.08 | bhima | or perhaps a small NiMh battery. |
| 21:37.23 | bhima | FOr the first PowerBooks, you could buy a little 9v power supply thingy |
| 21:37.49 | Funklord | the design on these powerbooks is like insane |
| 21:38.04 | bhima | You could use a 9v cell, and it would provide enough power during sleep. This was a third party thing. |
| 21:38.18 | Funklord | the only x86 boxes that are close, are IBM |
| 21:38.36 | Funklord | but they got problems too |
| 21:38.54 | cp15 | No, not ibm... Lenovo ;-) |
| 21:38.54 | bhima | One of my PowerBooks could attach an external battery charger directly to the standard power supply. |
| 21:38.55 | Funklord | I like the little white led at the top |
| 21:39.02 | bhima | It just clips on. |
| 21:39.19 | bhima | The machine shipped with one type of NiMh battery, then they updated it, and then they added LiIon. |
| 21:39.45 | bhima | The power cable from the laptop had a data connection to the PSU.. |
| 21:39.57 | bhima | So it could update the flash memory on the charger automagically to deal with new battery types :) |
| 21:40.33 | cp15 | :-) Wow... What a solution |
| 21:40.48 | Funklord | haha |
| 21:41.12 | Funklord | that's an intelligent charger |
| 21:41.25 | Funklord | none of them are intelligent nowadays afaik |
| 21:41.35 | bhima | Oh, no, they are all intelligent. |
| 21:41.43 | bhima | LiIon batteries need to be intelligent. |
| 21:41.46 | Funklord | those parts in the laptop nowadays |
| 21:41.50 | Funklord | the bios |
| 21:42.05 | bhima | Oh. NO. What I mean is, there was a socket on the side of the power supply. |
| 21:42.19 | bhima | You could plug an external charger into that |
| 21:42.21 | Funklord | ah I see, then it has to be |
| 21:42.35 | bhima | The normal charging is inside the laptop. |
| 21:43.12 | Funklord | hp and ibm do sell external chargers |
| 21:43.19 | Funklord | but they cost loads |
| 21:43.44 | Funklord | I saw some 12-24 battery chargers |
| 21:43.59 | Funklord | maybe useful for schools |
| 21:44.33 | bhima | I saw a cart for the eMate. You could attach 12 or 24 or something, and it would charge them as well as letting you lock them up. |
| 21:55.30 | cp15 | I will go to bed now. Good night |
| 22:41.43 | *** join/#htc-blueangel immolo (n=immolo@cpc1-cosh1-4-0-cust126.cos2.cable.ntl.com) |