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| 01:33.32 | jackman | i was just reading the SATA thread. |
| 01:33.40 | jackman | What are people using to power their sata devices? |
| 01:34.00 | jackman | the bus doesn't care power in itself, right? |
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| 02:13.24 | djenkins35 | I've got a little power supply that came with a USB to SATA adapter |
| 02:14.07 | djenkins35 | http://www.rosewill.com/products/903/productDetail.htm |
| 02:16.02 | djenkins35 | was hoping to get one of the small 2.5" drives working though, so I could power everything from a single 5v supply |
| 02:16.22 | djenkins35 | ~25W for everything I've got connected |
| 02:16.23 | jackman | thats what i was thinking |
| 02:16.54 | jackman | the end product will need to have a barcode reader and a gps unit |
| 02:17.05 | jackman | kinda borderline for power |
| 02:17.16 | jackman | i just ordered a powered hub for development |
| 02:17.31 | jackman | right now i can't connect my kb and mouse even. :( |
| 02:18.07 | jackman | have you had any difficulties with drives as mentioned in the mailing list? |
| 02:18.34 | djenkins35 | well, I've got 3 that don't seem to work |
| 02:18.38 | djenkins35 | and one that does |
| 02:19.19 | djenkins35 | the one that does is a 3.5" drive, and that one requires 12v and 5v input |
| 02:19.26 | djenkins35 | so, not ideal |
| 02:21.33 | djenkins35 | I bought one of these to power everything I want to add to my project: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Phihong/PSA25LS-050-R/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu0oxGuRuNKH0S78hoDI42JZR7WWrvJErs%3d |
| 02:21.58 | djenkins35 | so, I need to find a way to get a small drive working |
| 02:22.18 | jackman | sexy |
| 02:25.13 | jackman | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182057 |
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| 05:44.15 | kblin | jackman: I haven't gotten the hardware yet, but I'm also planning on using a sata->usb adapter kit's power supply for a 3.5" drive |
| 06:03.50 | jackman | kbin: do you have a link? |
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| 06:35.44 | eFfeM_work | wrt sata power, if you are using a 2.5" drive that only needs +5 v you might be able to make a cable from sata power to 5v usb. |
| 06:36.02 | eFfeM_work | eg by taking http://www.dealextreme.com/feedbacks/BrowseReviews.dx/sku.9809 and cutting it in two and mount a usb connector |
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| 07:36.02 | jackman | I thought about that, but I was hoping for something a little prettier, more production ready. |
| 08:35.09 | eFfeM_work | jackman: if you find one, please let us know |
| 08:39.04 | jackman | roger. :) |
| 08:42.36 | kblin | jackman: can't find an english link to the thing right now, but looks pretty similar to what djenkinssuggested |
| 08:43.48 | kblin | jackman: if that doesn't work, I'll try one of these "plug in your external hdd" things that have a usb2 and an esata port, and use ith with an esata->sata cable |
| 08:45.40 | kblin | I went for a WD AV-GP 750 GBhdd, as that's 24x7 rated |
| 08:46.33 | jackman | I'm seeing a lot of this kind of stuff: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=5v+sata+power+adapter&hl=en&cid=5858484026912320462&ei=McBfTL3VB6XWiwT_xNDnAw&sa=title&ved=0CAwQ8wIwATgA#p |
| 08:47.30 | jackman | wow |
| 08:47.33 | jackman | didn't realize the mess |
| 08:47.43 | jackman | i'll tiny it. |
| 08:48.06 | jackman | http://tinyurl.com/2ffapbc |
| 08:48.20 | kblin | hm, interesting |
| 08:48.34 | kblin | and where does the power for this thing come from? |
| 08:49.36 | jackman | i've seen a lot with a split usb cable for add'l power. |
| 08:50.31 | kblin | ah, it seems like esata does support powering the drive, a bit like usb does |
| 08:51.09 | kblin | I don't trust that with my usb drives either :) |
| 08:51.38 | jackman | ya... |
| 08:51.56 | kblin | and I don't think it'll help you for the hawkboard |
| 08:52.08 | jackman | i think i'd be tempted to add a dedicated 5v rail to a sbc if i were ever to customize it |
| 08:52.28 | jackman | i'm annoyed by the power issue. |
| 08:56.01 | jackman | http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=515 |
| 08:56.06 | jackman | barely within USB power spec. |
| 08:57.14 | jackman | I need to find an ammeter to measure the power consumption on my hawkboard... |
| 08:59.29 | jackman | http://tiny.cc/xbmsu |
| 08:59.36 | jackman | 200mA |
| 08:59.39 | jackman | :) |
| 09:00.31 | jackman | I think I'll just solder my own and dress it up real nice. |
| 09:00.40 | jackman | (the power connector, that is) |
| 09:02.05 | jackman | kblin: what language was that link in you were telling me about earler? |
| 09:03.51 | kblin | jackman: German, on reichelt.de |
| 09:10.53 | jackman | i'll look at it for the pic. :) |
| 09:17.53 | jackman | i was just looking at batteries |
| 09:18.24 | jackman | I can use cheap, rechargeable 9v cells with 5v regulators |
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| 11:08.30 | kblin | jackman: http://www.reichelt.de/?;ACTION=3;LA=5;GROUP=EA4;GROUPID=750;ARTICLE=98366 |
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| 16:05.09 | jackman | thanks |
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| 18:36.23 | kblin | jackman: as you noticed, it's pretty much what djenkins35 suggested |
| 18:36.33 | jackman | exactly |
| 18:37.17 | kblin | but for a 3.5" drive, that seems like the best way to get 12V power to the drive |
| 18:37.37 | jackman | are you needing the hdd? |
| 18:38.01 | jackman | if it was convenient, i might have gone with it,but i think i'll stick with the sd card for now |
| 18:39.13 | jackman | i'm not doing any serious data gathering or anything |
| 18:39.19 | kblin | I want to do an embedded storage solution thing |
| 18:39.23 | jackman | ah |
| 18:39.52 | jackman | i'm trying to think of a reasonable way to do database synchronization with intermittent network access... |
| 18:39.53 | kblin | I already have two beagles and a shevaplug, but all of those are usb only |
| 18:40.10 | jackman | have you seen the beagle-xm? |
| 18:40.38 | kblin | not shipping yet, I think :) |
| 18:40.43 | jackman | no, not yet |
| 18:40.47 | jackman | they keep pushing the data back |
| 18:40.50 | jackman | date* |
| 18:41.08 | kblin | I need the hardware for a demo at the storage developers's conference in september |
| 18:41.21 | kblin | so it was a hawkboard or a guruplug |
| 18:42.06 | jackman | looks up guruplug |
| 18:43.02 | jackman | esata? |
| 18:43.13 | kblin | but there were so many reports on thermal problems that I shied away from it |
| 18:43.20 | jackman | ah |
| 18:43.32 | jackman | hawkboard still gets hot, but i'm told it can take it |
| 18:43.41 | jackman | i put a chipset heatsink on it just the same. |
| 18:44.13 | kblin | well, the guruplug's problem seems to be the 2 GbE ports getting rather hot |
| 18:44.24 | jackman | the ports themselves? |
| 18:44.30 | jackman | like melting the plug? |
| 18:45.00 | kblin | nah, more the phy or whatever does the number crunchy stuff for ethernet |
| 18:45.12 | jackman | ah |
| 18:46.07 | kblin | given that on the day I wanted to place my order, my second shevaplug PSU died, I was looking at another company's product for a change |
| 18:46.54 | jackman | just out of curiousity, why not reduce your standard to usb2? |
| 18:47.06 | jackman | it's still gonna keep up with the ethernet, no? |
| 18:47.13 | jackman | well... maybe not GbE... |
| 18:47.57 | kblin | I said I'd do SATA in my talk proposal :) |
| 18:48.36 | kblin | once they fix the thermal problems with the guruplug, that looks like a very attractive platform for what I'm playing with |
| 18:49.15 | jackman | that's cool |
| 18:49.28 | jackman | just out of curiousity, what is the advantage of using a product like yours? |
| 18:49.35 | jackman | do you have a copy of the proposal i can look at? |
| 18:50.27 | kblin | looking |
| 18:50.58 | kblin | but to be honest this is more of a thing I try because I think it could work |
| 18:51.32 | kblin | http://www.snia.org/events/storage-developer2010/agenda2010/abstracts#embedded_cloud_samba |
| 18:51.59 | kblin | and I'm probably winning in buzzword bingo for my track |
| 18:52.25 | kblin | saving the yet to be announced keynotes.. hard to beat marketing managers |
| 18:53.23 | jackman | kind of a samba-torrent hybrid? |
| 18:53.53 | kblin | no, a samba cluster actually looks like a single file server to the clients |
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| 18:55.18 | kblin | I'm pretty convinced you can make a hawkboard run a pretty decent active directory setup for a SOHO environment |
| 18:55.40 | kblin | but I talked about embedded active directory domain controllers last year |
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| 18:56.24 | jackman | so you have a controller that does load distribution? |
| 18:56.57 | jackman | am i looking at the right one? (Volker Lendecke) |
| 19:00.53 | kblin | no |
| 19:01.15 | kblin | Embedded Private Cloud Using Samba and Ceph |
| 19:02.35 | kblin | volker is talking about the same thing on big beefy hardware |
| 19:03.35 | kblin | my idea is more like using a couple of small boxes to replace a single beefy server |
| 19:04.38 | kblin | not about having a cluster because really, really big beefy servers are too slow |
| 19:05.42 | kblin | of course volker earns a living with his stuff, for me it's a fun hobby and an excuse to get more toys |
| 19:05.57 | kblin | er.. hardware... not toys, of course |
| 19:06.17 | kblin | 0:) |
| 19:07.06 | kblin | if I had to sell a product, I'd focus on embedded AD controllers |
| 19:08.11 | jackman | slick |
| 19:08.22 | jackman | did you ever read Asimov's Foundation? |
| 19:11.16 | kblin | yeah, been a while though |
| 19:11.30 | kblin | and I don't have a belt-size nuclear power plant ;) |
| 19:29.00 | jackman | hehe |
| 19:29.04 | jackman | i was thinking of that |
| 19:29.40 | jackman | i like the idea that tools can be individualized and available, independant of a major infrastructure. |
| 19:33.50 | jackman | in otherwords, small, collective units kick ass. :) |
| 19:34.50 | jackman | when i worked in a data processing facility, we learned very quickly that redundancy was invaluable. |
| 19:40.16 | kblin | well, I'm a microbiologist in my real life, so small things always are interesting :) |
| 19:47.04 | kblin | of course I don't think the big number-crunching stuff in genomics will run on embedded systems any time soon |
| 19:47.18 | jackman | you may be right |
| 19:47.34 | jackman | in the area where i was working, we were doing OCR, image manipulation, and data entry... |
| 19:48.02 | jackman | the idea was to create a highly adaptive processing cluster with interchangeable parts |
| 19:49.00 | jackman | considering that the system ran 24/7 and the biggest point of failure was Windows problems and hard drives, i opted for something along the lines of beagles... |
| 19:49.22 | jackman | we probably could have done it with flash-based PCs, like the nettops. |
| 19:54.30 | kblin | ah, for OCR the problem can be broken up pretty well |
| 19:54.59 | jackman | we were processing something like 200,000 images everyday, each image processed dozens of times. |
| 19:55.01 | kblin | for genome assembly, at some point you'll want to have all the pieces in ram |
| 19:55.27 | jackman | ah, gotcha |
| 19:55.47 | kblin | it's possible to do without that, but it's much faster with everything in ram :) |
| 19:56.04 | jackman | no doubt |
| 19:56.14 | jackman | most of our processing was managed by a central database. |
| 19:56.31 | jackman | every step of the processed was stored in SQL. |
| 19:56.57 | jackman | in a genome related project, the overhead would be rediculous... |
| 19:58.56 | kblin | but even in your setup, I doubt the DB server was on a small system :) |
| 19:59.41 | kblin | but I guess for OCR, the DSP on the beagle/hawk is pretty useful |
| 20:00.17 | jackman | it was never implemented, but trashed for a single unified mainframe-like system |
| 20:00.23 | jackman | it crashed shortly after i left. |
| 20:00.26 | jackman | >:D |
| 20:00.31 | kblin | hehe |
| 20:00.47 | jackman | throughput was the key thing |
| 20:01.03 | kblin | haven't actually dealt with OCR since my neural networking class |
| 20:01.14 | jackman | we had three SQL servers running, one for data entry, one for image processing, and one for the final, collected data. |
| 20:13.25 | jackman | I wanted to put in a fourth for monitoring and statistics collection |
| 20:13.30 | jackman | but, eh |
| 20:13.45 | jackman | what's the objective of your research? |
| 20:15.11 | kblin | I'm trying to predict biotechnogically interesting compounds produced by bacteria from their genomic data |
| 20:52.02 | Gaston|Home | kblin: So is CIFS integrated in to Samba now? |
| 20:52.51 | Gaston|Home | I'm only asking because people have warned me from turning it on in Solaris 10 |
| 20:53.33 | Gaston|Home | but Samba would be a perfect substitute |
| 20:54.56 | Gaston|Home | I guess i can do a little google resarch on it myself |
| 20:56.27 | kblin | Gaston|Home: cifs is just a fancy name MS used for a while |
| 20:56.52 | kblin | basically MS called everything NT4 did CIFS |
| 20:57.10 | kblin | but then at around XP time, they switched back to calling it SMB again |
| 20:57.29 | kblin | probably the "internet" hype had died down |
| 20:57.43 | kblin | in any case, samba handles those parts just fine |
| 20:59.00 | Gaston|Home | I seem to remember that MS is changing the protocol all the time, which should make it harder for Samba to keep track |
| 21:00.42 | Gaston|Home | anyways, so a windows 7 client is reversing the order of some ACL-stuff which makes the files unreadable by the same client that originally set the permissions on the Solaris-server .... |
| 21:02.09 | Gaston|Home | I dont really know this stuff, I just keep an ear open as I am migrating towards either OpenSolaris or Solaris 10 for my home server ... |
| 21:06.30 | Gaston|Home | Hehe, the wiki is quite funny on the CIFS subject |
| 21:07.22 | Gaston|Home | it mention grief, more grief and finally additional grief on porting of SMB to various *nix dialects. |
| 21:10.30 | Gaston|Home | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cifs |
| 21:11.24 | Gaston|Home | Please share your final submission to the conference (or rather draft as they might hold copyrights to the final version) |
| 21:40.01 | kblin | currently they're sharing all the documentation with us |
| 21:40.39 | kblin | http://protocolfreedom.org/ :) |
| 21:44.17 | kblin | Gaston|Home: samba 3.5 should work fine with win7, if you want smb2 and are not in a hurry, the yet to be released samba 3.6 will support that as well |
| 22:14.02 | Gaston|Home | thanks |
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