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| 07:16.32 | Tronic | I wonder if PR1.3 is cancelled now... |
| 07:17.36 | Tronic | Nokia just announced that it is firing 10000 people and terminating its Salo factory and Ulm office. AFAIK all the Linux/Qt development was in Ulm. |
| 07:20.03 | denism | Tronic: could you give a link for Ulm? I can not find it right now from google |
| 07:20.24 | ab | Tronic: part of work was in Ulm, not everything |
| 07:20.36 | ab | Tronic: and Qt development was never in Ulm |
| 07:20.47 | denism | and yle.fi has news about Finnish part only |
| 07:20.48 | ab | denism: look at press.nokia.com, first press-release of today |
| 07:20.54 | denism | ab: thanks |
| 07:21.10 | denism | I have to read official pages sometimes :) |
| 07:21.35 | ab | however, closing of Ulm is indeed worrying |
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| 07:26.46 | denism | yes, there were hundreds of jobs in Ulm last autumn. So it might be an incorrect decision for a lot of people |
| 07:28.17 | ab | Timo Toikkanen was SVP, Customer and Market Operations in Middle East&Africa, and also vice-president for Nokia in China before |
| 07:28.48 | ab | so this is business guy, knows how to deal with feature phones |
| 07:29.31 | b00^wk | <Tronic> Nokia just announced that it is firing 10000 people and terminating its Salo factory and Ulm office. AFAIK all the Linux/Qt development was in Ulm. |
| 07:29.32 | b00^wk | fuck |
| 07:30.21 | b00^wk | nokia got sold to ms completely now |
| 07:32.50 | ab | on that wave, I have to congratulate Scalado guys |
| 07:32.58 | ab | very good cashout |
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| 07:34.03 | aparaatti | hi, where could I get gnu screen for n9, anyone know? |
| 07:34.15 | ab | also, press-release says "R&D in Salo to continue" so it is factory that's closed, not product development/prototyping |
| 07:35.12 | Tronic | AFAIK the factory is only for prototyping anymore. |
| 07:35.16 | Tronic | (even prior to this) |
| 07:35.29 | ab | Tronic: my n9 is made at Salo |
| 07:35.58 | b00^wk | sure not assembled in china ? |
| 07:35.59 | Tronic | Did you buy it from a store? |
| 07:36.08 | ab | Tronic: yes |
| 07:36.21 | Tronic | Okay, I guess they do some manufacturing for the markets as well. |
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| 08:06.21 | b00^wk | hey, what do you use to make a new kernel config ? i'm used to menuconfig, but this aint working well in the scratchbox |
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| 08:32.27 | djszapi | http://press.nokia.com/2012/06/14/nokia-sharpens-strategy-and-provides-updates-to-its-targets-and-outlook/ |
| 08:40.39 | unreal- | djszapi: please resume? |
| 08:41.56 | djszapi | well, next-billion is cancelled. |
| 08:42.06 | djszapi | Nokia seems to remain a hardware developer company. |
| 08:44.49 | rcg | or to put it even shorter: same shit different day |
| 08:44.56 | rcg | ssdd |
| 08:45.10 | djszapi | except that, Qt might be gone this way |
| 08:45.24 | djszapi | so it is way way way, and let me repeat: WAY bigger shit. |
| 08:45.45 | jussi | far out |
| 08:46.16 | jussi | I can almost cry. bloody elop. |
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| 08:49.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | well, plus just I read another 10k layoffs til 2013 |
| 09:05.04 | denism | lets clarify, 'next billion' is not cancelled :) as it might be that Smarterphone :) and so on :) |
| 09:07.57 | djszapi | sales pitch on ? :p |
| 09:09.31 | djszapi | QtCS is not cancelled yet for next week =p |
| 09:17.08 | Lava_Croft | of course nokia is firing people |
| 09:17.27 | Lava_Croft | they arent there to provide welfare |
| 09:18.06 | djszapi | that is just a natural consequence of the decision... |
| 09:18.58 | Lava_Croft | its a natural consequence that comes from years of bad management |
| 09:19.14 | Lava_Croft | even if elop wasnt around and nokia didnt switch to WP7, they still would have to fire these people |
| 09:19.32 | djszapi | fully agree... the main problem was MeeGo IMO. |
| 09:19.34 | Lava_Croft | the days of 3210 and a nokia service point in just about every town are over |
| 09:19.40 | djszapi | and Elop was nowhere back then. |
| 09:19.55 | djszapi | we had a nice Maemo story.. why MeeGo ? why ? why ? why ? |
| 09:19.58 | Lava_Croft | i personally, as a total non-dev, think the blunt switch to Meego did it |
| 09:20.08 | Lava_Croft | not just physically, but also mentally |
| 09:20.08 | frals | warning, warning, expert in the building |
| 09:20.11 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 09:20.28 | Lava_Croft | maemo is a nice story |
| 09:20.36 | Lava_Croft | but its not the story that is or was going to make nokia a lot of moneys |
| 09:20.42 | Lava_Croft | :< |
| 09:20.48 | djszapi | I disagree |
| 09:20.54 | djszapi | Harmattan could have made money for Nokia. |
| 09:21.25 | djszapi | They are now trying to get money from almost the same hardware with a lot crappier software. |
| 09:21.48 | Lava_Croft | there's more to a this that just having the best software |
| 09:21.54 | Lava_Croft | than*& |
| 09:22.14 | Lava_Croft | my typing is on fire |
| 09:22.20 | icota | it's also about having good hw |
| 09:22.25 | Lava_Croft | and about the whole back end |
| 09:22.26 | icota | imagine a next gen N9 |
| 09:22.29 | Lava_Croft | the 'app store' stuff |
| 09:22.32 | b00^wk | it sounded like not about 'make a lot ..' , more like, 'can we survive ..' |
| 09:22.36 | Lava_Croft | everuthing around it |
| 09:22.39 | Lava_Croft | everything* |
| 09:23.02 | djszapi | trivial, but the Nokia hardware is IMO good enough for getting money. |
| 09:23.09 | djszapi | as an opinion from a user. |
| 09:23.18 | Lava_Croft | it feels better than samsung |
| 09:23.19 | Lava_Croft | my n9 |
| 09:23.22 | djszapi | if I take a look at other hardwares out there, well ... well ... and well. |
| 09:23.23 | Lava_Croft | but not better than an iphone4 |
| 09:23.27 | Lava_Croft | just holding it in your hand, that is |
| 09:23.45 | b00^wk | hold a small brick man :) |
| 09:23.51 | Lava_Croft | i have a n900 |
| 09:23.55 | Lava_Croft | does that count as a small brick |
| 09:24.06 | b00^wk | yes if thats how you think of your hw |
| 09:24.07 | djszapi | at any rate, I think Harmattan was the best bet for Nokia |
| 09:24.13 | djszapi | ofc IMO. |
| 09:24.14 | Lava_Croft | harmattan was the only bet for nokia |
| 09:24.16 | jreznik | Nokia is going to be OEM - buy hw, buy sw and sell it with Nokia logo |
| 09:24.34 | Lava_Croft | nokia is certainly going to survive one way or the other :) |
| 09:24.41 | djszapi | well, they at least did something unlike Intel. |
| 09:24.51 | b00^wk | yes, by being a MS whore |
| 09:24.59 | Lava_Croft | i dont see nokia as an ms whore |
| 09:25.04 | djszapi | me neither |
| 09:25.07 | b00^wk | of course |
| 09:25.09 | icota | is there any way to fork harmattan UX? is it open source? the mer stuff looks different |
| 09:25.09 | jreznik | djszapi: yep, intel, another story :) |
| 09:25.11 | Lava_Croft | and i certainly dont feel for all the puberty-induced anti MS raging |
| 09:25.15 | djszapi | I did work closely with Intel inside Nokia, but Intel was even a lot bigger crap |
| 09:25.33 | djszapi | a lot lot lot, let me repeat a LOT bigger crap. |
| 09:25.44 | jreznik | djszapi: for intel, it is still game - but game they can loose everything |
| 09:25.52 | jreznik | s/they/where |
| 09:26.11 | djszapi | jreznik: Intel did not provide anything valuable to my life. |
| 09:26.12 | jreznik | how many years they are promising real mobile cpus? |
| 09:26.15 | djszapi | jreznik: Nokia did with N9 |
| 09:26.31 | b00^wk | baaah |
| 09:26.32 | djszapi | I mean in the mobile phone sector. =) |
| 09:26.35 | b00^wk | like, 3 years late ? |
| 09:26.36 | b00^wk | unfinished |
| 09:26.36 | Lava_Croft | the n9 is really nice, but its also quite rough around the edges |
| 09:26.41 | djszapi | or actually even in the embedded including tablets. |
| 09:26.44 | Lava_Croft | and in no way a competitor for ios or durrrdroid |
| 09:26.54 | jreznik | b00^wk: only three? but yeah, could be |
| 09:27.04 | b00^wk | in my lagging estimation |
| 09:27.12 | b00^wk | and dead before born kinda |
| 09:27.16 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 09:27.22 | Lava_Croft | n9 is too little too late, sadly:< |
| 09:27.28 | djszapi | that is exactly what me and Lava_Croft said |
| 09:27.30 | b00^wk | ed zachory |
| 09:27.40 | djszapi | IMO, MeeGo killed Harmattan as well |
| 09:27.45 | Tronic | Lava_Croft: No, you are quite wrong. N9 was right on time. Lumia was badly late. |
| 09:27.48 | djszapi | I was saying this in 2010, but everything was telling me I was talking bullshit. |
| 09:27.58 | Lava_Croft | Tronic: if you think that 2011 is right on time |
| 09:28.03 | Lava_Croft | when iphone was released in 2007 |
| 09:28.13 | jreznik | Tronic: N9 was late, Lumia is even more late |
| 09:28.13 | Lava_Croft | it only took them 4 years right |
| 09:28.20 | Tronic | Lava_Croft: Yes, I do. N9 is *much* better than iPhone (the one released in 2007, especially). |
| 09:28.26 | Lava_Croft | Tronic: for me personally too |
| 09:28.33 | Lava_Croft | but overall, its not |
| 09:28.36 | Lava_Croft | people want iphones |
| 09:28.40 | Lava_Croft | not n9's |
| 09:28.43 | Corsac | or android |
| 09:28.55 | Lava_Croft | i had a galaxy nexus for 2 weeks |
| 09:29.00 | Lava_Croft | i longed for Symbian^3 |
| 09:29.05 | Tronic | Lava_Croft: In case you haven't been paying attention, a lot of people now want Android. |
| 09:29.24 | b00^wk | yea, there is this small thing called android |
| 09:29.38 | jreznik | and Nokia really fails delivering phones to market - first time I heard about SIII was one month ago, announcement a little bit later and you can buy S3 here... you can't buy Lumia 900 here... and here it's Nokia market (50%+) now looks Samsung is taking 50%+ here |
| 09:29.40 | Tronic | Lava_Croft: Had Nokia done the right thing and pushed new Harmattan-based devices as they keep pushing new Lumias, the situation could be entirely different. |
| 09:29.40 | djszapi | I am the only happy with my N9 ? :D |
| 09:30.11 | Corsac | I am too |
| 09:30.21 | Corsac | well, except that I'm cursed with all the imap bugs :/ |
| 09:30.22 | Lava_Croft | Tronic: I have run into way too many people living in some kind of dreamstate |
| 09:30.26 | b00^wk | papa Bill came, and said, i save you poor Nokia, just bend down and take the windows |
| 09:30.28 | jreznik | djszapi: hey, I'm the happiest! |
| 09:30.39 | Lava_Croft | Ill just say you are completely right and be done with it! |
| 09:30.42 | djszapi | if there is no this damn MeeGo thingy... |
| 09:30.46 | jreznik | If they start loving us, we could |
| 09:30.47 | jreznik | end up in a deadly embrace like Nokia ... |
| 09:30.48 | Lava_Croft | and papa bill didnt came |
| 09:30.53 | Lava_Croft | dumb finnish people came |
| 09:30.54 | jreznik | (from our mailing list today :D) |
| 09:30.56 | djszapi | Harmattan would be a super killer to me. |
| 09:30.57 | Lava_Croft | and did shit for years |
| 09:31.00 | b00^wk | dumb finish ? |
| 09:31.02 | Lava_Croft | yes |
| 09:31.08 | Lava_Croft | nokia was run by finnish people |
| 09:31.09 | b00^wk | dumb NOkia / :) |
| 09:31.17 | Lava_Croft | finnish people that were sleeping while apple and samsung took over |
| 09:31.20 | Tronic | Lava_Croft: Well, I constantly keep running into people with that Windows Phone dreamstate. The markets constantly keep saying the opposite, so who's dreaming? |
| 09:31.24 | jreznik | Lava_Croft: that was probably the main issue - finnish people :) |
| 09:32.06 | jreznik | Lumia is not bad for MS, a few nice ideas but it's still very unfinished os as harmattan was in time of release... just wp are out a year longer |
| 09:32.17 | Tronic | Lava_Croft: The same goes for people with the iPhone dream, btw, not noticing how quickly Android is taking over the market. |
| 09:32.20 | Lava_Croft | nokia needs more time to actually put their mark on that wp7 shit |
| 09:32.22 | djszapi | will lead the Qt5 Harmattan session at QtCS anyway, no matter how others dislike this Harmattan phone... |
| 09:32.27 | Lava_Croft | Tronic: and |
| 09:32.52 | b00^wk | yea, pushing their android crack around.. getting people hoocked on it .. |
| 09:32.59 | Lava_Croft | android is cheap and omnipresent |
| 09:33.03 | Lava_Croft | of course people get on with it |
| 09:34.10 | djszapi | but a total crap from Qt story POV. |
| 09:34.28 | Lava_Croft | android is total crap from a lot of POV's |
| 09:34.37 | b00^wk | pubs |
| 09:34.40 | b00^wk | pubes |
| 09:34.51 | djszapi | I respect Bogdan's work and all that jazz |
| 09:35.01 | djszapi | but that platform cannot be powered up with Qt nicely by its nature. |
| 09:35.39 | b00^wk | what is powered up with Qt, and why would it need it ? |
| 09:35.40 | djszapi | Though, there is no other option for the foreseeable future apart from Qt5 Harmattan if any... |
| 09:35.51 | djszapi | because Qt is awesome |
| 09:36.07 | Lava_Croft | i like that qml stuff |
| 09:36.20 | djszapi | You do not really ever wanna to write in a total different environment for each platform |
| 09:36.32 | djszapi | I recommend reading the qt introduction, and try to understand its main goal. |
| 09:36.41 | djszapi | that the trolls established about 20 years ago. |
| 09:37.46 | b00^wk | ah wait, here comes another ex-nokia qt programmer , wants job |
| 09:37.54 | b00^wk | actually two of them freshly hired here ... |
| 09:37.58 | b00^wk | scarry |
| 09:38.24 | djszapi | 1) I do not work for Nokia 2) I do have a Qt job. |
| 09:38.36 | djszapi | so nothing correct, but whatever =) |
| 09:38.45 | Lava_Croft | he said ex-nokia |
| 09:38.48 | Lava_Croft | which means you dont work for nokia |
| 09:38.52 | Lava_Croft | that part was correct |
| 09:39.27 | b00^wk | i've spend 3 -5 hours looking at Samsung phones , and ... |
| 09:39.31 | b00^wk | i couldnt buy it |
| 09:39.32 | djszapi | ok, let me put it this way: |
| 09:39.40 | djszapi | I did not work for Nokia directly either. |
| 09:39.49 | Lava_Croft | the galaxy nexus was really horrible |
| 09:39.57 | b00^wk | yea ? i only read good reviews |
| 09:40.05 | Lava_Croft | it feels cheap plastic |
| 09:40.08 | Lava_Croft | and the software, well |
| 09:40.29 | djszapi | I think there is a bit of disagreeing opinions here ... |
| 09:40.57 | djszapi | I am basically looking for a phone where I can develop without a totally new environment, so that I do not need to spend enormous man power for porting a little tiny application, not even bigger ones... |
| 09:41.07 | Lava_Croft | for me, android feels very not tought through |
| 09:41.22 | Lava_Croft | as if they made part A and the C, later on they created B and tucked that inbetween A and C |
| 09:41.29 | Lava_Croft | much like Symbian^3 on the N8 feels |
| 09:41.34 | djszapi | so things like iphone, or droid is not even a consideration to me ideally ... |
| 09:41.44 | Lava_Croft | and it wasnt able to smoothly scroll through a list |
| 09:41.51 | Lava_Croft | on a dual-core cpu |
| 09:41.55 | aard_ | djszapi: just be patient... ;) |
| 09:42.08 | djszapi | aard_: why would I ? |
| 09:42.14 | djszapi | I will go for Qt5 Harmattan as of now. |
| 09:42.23 | djszapi | I like hacking, hobby is not something you can postpone. |
| 09:44.41 | b00^wk | Lava_Croft, may be your have jerky fingers ? :) |
| 09:44.54 | Lava_Croft | :) |
| 09:45.42 | djszapi | anyway, I am still grateful to Nokia about how they invested into Qt ... |
| 09:47.52 | b00^wk | ah., i see you can build qt apps for android too .. |
| 09:48.24 | djszapi | yes, a huge PITA, but you can. |
| 09:48.28 | djszapi | without proper components, etc. |
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| 09:48.40 | djszapi | with much smaller Qt community around. |
| 09:49.51 | djszapi | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:50.11 | b00^wk | what does that mean ? |
| 09:50.27 | djszapi | have you ever tried to actually write a hello world Qt app for Android ? |
| 09:50.39 | b00^wk | no, im just reading articles now |
| 09:50.50 | djszapi | right, you /have/ to use QtCreator mostly. |
| 09:51.09 | djszapi | there are certain workarounds by nowadays like back then at Symbian times, but then again: royal PITA. |
| 09:51.26 | b00^wk | and they don't run natively , i see :/ |
| 09:51.47 | djszapi | and then again, I do not consider the android hardwares any good in comparison with N9. |
| 09:51.55 | djszapi | nor in smoothness. |
| 09:52.18 | b00^wk | djszapi, well this is really depends on what / how you compare |
| 09:52.35 | djszapi | smoothness does not depend, no. |
| 09:52.43 | djszapi | you are flickering, etc. |
| 09:52.47 | djszapi | moving stuff around |
| 09:52.51 | djszapi | it is not smooth. |
| 09:52.57 | djszapi | not that I even like the UI itself. |
| 09:53.06 | b00^wk | strange, i have not noticed any of those on my wife's 2 year old htc with android |
| 09:53.24 | djszapi | we did |
| 09:53.52 | b00^wk | ui is subjective again.. i may dislike the anroid, she hates / finds 'stupid' the n9's i have |
| 09:54.00 | djszapi | and the htc hardware is a joke to my taste :) |
| 09:54.04 | djszapi | after getting an N9 anyway |
| 09:54.14 | b00^wk | yea a 2 year old htc vs 2011 nokia |
| 09:54.18 | b00^wk | may be |
| 09:55.26 | djszapi | well, I had HTC Desire. |
| 09:55.46 | b00^wk | hey, if I want a package to be added to Harmattan for N9, whats the easiest way? its just a console tool i like to have |
| 09:55.53 | b00^wk | i see it seems compiles & runs .. |
| 09:56.13 | b00^wk | i want them to add it :P |
| 09:58.23 | b00^wk | djszapi, i hever had an Android phone, but , now i decided to actually try and use one. just bought one to try, use it for a while side by side my n9 - to get my own un-biased opinion |
| 10:00.22 | djszapi | b00^wk: well, I am biased about Qt as a developer obviously. :) |
| 10:00.49 | b00^wk | i understand |
| 10:02.26 | Lava_Croft | there's no sane software to do irssi over ssh on android |
| 10:02.40 | Lava_Croft | nor did i find any sane software to just play an icecast stream |
| 10:02.55 | b00^wk | but i find a much better nfc support |
| 10:03.04 | Lava_Croft | that's hardly a selling point for me |
| 10:03.12 | djszapi | Lava_Croft: there are tons of WORKING irc clients though. |
| 10:03.18 | b00^wk | and will prob soon have much more drivers |
| 10:03.19 | djszapi | which we basically do not have for Harmattan. :( |
| 10:03.22 | Lava_Croft | who needs tons of irc clients when one has irssi over ssh |
| 10:03.40 | djszapi | almost everybody uses working UI client |
| 10:03.51 | djszapi | and almost nobody in percentages, "irssi over ssh". |
| 10:03.57 | Lava_Croft | that says very little |
| 10:03.58 | b00^wk | well i actually paid for one (cheap but..), and the basdard eats power |
| 10:04.06 | b00^wk | unlike irssi |
| 10:04.06 | Lava_Croft | now you imply that just because a lot of people do something, that is the correct way? :) |
| 10:04.29 | Lava_Croft | i could use a gui client to connect to my irssi |
| 10:04.39 | Lava_Croft | but gui clients for an apps that just displays text... |
| 10:04.41 | Lava_Croft | not really for me:) |
| 10:04.48 | djszapi | Lava_Croft: no, I am saying that, that was done because that is the majority |
| 10:04.58 | b00^wk | i find that n9 term too small for meee eyeess |
| 10:05.02 | Lava_Croft | b00^wk: fingerterm |
| 10:05.11 | djszapi | I wish, somebody had done a working IRC client for Harmattan. |
| 10:05.22 | Lava_Croft | b00^wk: http://hqh.unlink.org/harmattan/ |
| 10:05.35 | djszapi | as for irssi, you would need an app as the console anyway |
| 10:06.33 | b00^wk | Lava_Croft, must try |
| 10:06.50 | Lava_Croft | b00^wk: it sadly doesnt seem to allow to run multiple instances of itself, but apart from that its just pretty damn good |
| 10:07.24 | b00^wk | there was this term i used long long time ago with multiple instances .. |
| 10:07.47 | Lava_Croft | xterm on the n900 maybe? :) |
| 10:07.59 | b00^wk | i never had n900 :) |
| 10:08.34 | djszapi | you dislike terminal stuff as well anyway |
| 10:08.40 | djszapi | since you have an app only for text |
| 10:08.53 | b00^wk | which app ? |
| 10:08.57 | djszapi | the terminal app. |
| 10:09.03 | djszapi | also, not telling to you, but Lava_Croft :) |
| 10:09.19 | b00^wk | 'dislike terminal ' .. 'terminal app' |
| 10:10.20 | b00^wk | hey, when i scratchbox, right, and in the ARMEL target, if i use apt-cache search, will that search through the actual available/ not things for the arm version of the Harmattan ? |
| 10:10.23 | djszapi | wrong quote.. you miss the "stuff" which is an important word in there. Let us not play word game though. :) |
| 10:10.51 | djszapi | man apt-cache |
| 10:10.59 | djszapi | it is a basic stuff that needs to be understood :) |
| 10:10.59 | b00^wk | thanks mate |
| 10:11.10 | djszapi | it is obviously searching in the updated list locally. |
| 10:11.36 | djszapi | like the "cache" could hint you :P |
| 10:11.44 | b00^wk | well my apt-get update is from yesterday |
| 10:15.22 | djszapi | anybody having g_serial experience in here ? I would like to test that between the laptop and board with minicom-minicom ping ? |
| 10:15.35 | djszapi | but I am not getting anything on the other side. |
| 10:15.44 | djszapi | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=23219 -> was reading this stuff. |
| 10:16.57 | jussi | is still grumbling that he cant find a working quassel2go... |
| 10:18.33 | b00^wk | is there a dpkg sources for non-free packages ? :) |
| 10:23.57 | b00^wk | ah, there ... nope, won't download sources for nokia's non-free packages |
| 10:24.01 | b00^wk | (i know, i'm stupid) |
| 10:33.40 | djszapi | it annoyed me as well |
| 10:33.53 | djszapi | I mean they do not even show on the webpage them for browsing. |
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| 11:23.28 | ajalkane | irc-logging for this channel has been turned off? |
| 11:24.00 | djszapi | ajalkane: nope |
| 11:24.04 | djszapi | http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/latest.log.html |
| 11:28.09 | ajalkane | ah thanks... apparently turned on again. 13th day is missing from there |
| 11:29.09 | djszapi | yeah, because that time we bitched about aegis again xD |
| 11:33.35 | b00^wk | niiiiiceee |
| 11:33.59 | b00^wk | isnt nice to have I n c e p t i on |
| 11:34.06 | b00^wk | ^______^ |
| 11:34.14 | djszapi | ofc it is not. |
| 11:34.31 | b00^wk | smacks djszapi on the head with a big wooden bat |
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| 11:42.17 | mgedmin | ajalkane, yeah, povbot was gone off the face of IRC for some reason during the 13th |
| 11:42.27 | mgedmin | netstat showed me it was connected just fine |
| 11:42.40 | mgedmin | dunno what happened there; netsplit? |
| 11:43.09 | djszapi | mgedmin: netsplit should not cause a total loss. |
| 11:43.19 | djszapi | it would just listen to a non complete traffic. |
| 11:43.37 | mgedmin | yeah |
| 11:43.50 | mgedmin | supybot is a funny thing |
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| 11:54.21 | djszapi | b00^wk: inception is for weaks :D |
| 11:54.47 | b00^wk | yea right |
| 11:55.43 | b00^wk | disable aegis-crap-stuff, and then your contacts don't work & what else not working, right ? |
| 11:57.06 | djszapi | you are talking to an ex-aegis-dev :p |
| 11:57.15 | b00^wk | ! |
| 11:57.25 | b00^wk | I need to take you for a walk in the dark forest .. |
| 11:57.27 | b00^wk | ! |
| 11:57.40 | djszapi | good, I like nature :) |
| 11:57.50 | djszapi | we do not have enough dark here in Finland now anyway :) |
| 11:58.07 | b00^wk | i will find you one here in Norway |
| 11:58.26 | b00^wk | or may be i take you for a nice fjord sightseeing, like, 900m above the sea |
| 11:59.12 | b00^wk | you will have to beg for mercy, and wish you never developed aegis |
| 11:59.35 | djszapi | I am proud of it, as in very really. ;) |
| 11:59.43 | b00^wk | yea ok |
| 12:00.20 | b00^wk | the best part is that it comes with Inception |
| 12:00.21 | b00^wk | :D |
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| 15:04.23 | djszapi | beford: o/ |
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| 15:05.40 | beford | hey djszapi |
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| 15:18.42 | djszapi | I wonder if Nokia made the next billion open source... |
| 15:19.07 | virtuald | what |
| 15:19.42 | djszapi | yeah, it would be cool to see Qt5 and QML2 codes for this market. |
| 15:26.36 | jreznik | djszapi: open what? :) |
| 15:30.15 | virtuald | the next billion €? the next billion phones and tablets? |
| 15:32.22 | ieatlint | no, you misunderstand, it's the next billion in losses |
| 15:32.26 | ieatlint | which nokia announced today |
| 15:39.28 | virtuald | they announced they will make another billion in losses? |
| 15:39.43 | virtuald | they will lose another million* |
| 15:39.49 | virtuald | billion* |
| 15:43.04 | ieatlint | yeah, http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-14/nokia-to-cut-10-000-jobs-as-elop-tries-to-stanch-losses.html |
| 15:43.46 | ieatlint | they've announced they're spending 1bn EUR to cut 10k jobs and close three facilities, and warned their q2 report coming in a month is going to be horrible |
| 15:43.58 | djszapi | jreznik: open source |
| 15:44.42 | jreznik | djszapi: lol :) |
| 15:44.59 | jreznik | but I'd like to see QML code |
| 15:45.10 | jreznik | (Qt Quick 2 code) - what's possible |
| 15:45.30 | djszapi | yeah, it would be nice IMO, too. That is why I mentioned. |
| 15:45.52 | jreznik | but do you believe there's still a code to open source? :) |
| 15:46.09 | djszapi | what do you mean ? |
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| 17:13.04 | Venemo_N9 | hey |
| 17:13.43 | djszapi | 'sup |
| 17:14.02 | Venemo_N9 | I'm fine, thanks :) |
| 17:14.17 | Venemo_N9 | Finland is an awesome place |
| 17:14.53 | djszapi | yes, we know. :p |
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| 17:18.37 | ZogG_N9 | sup |
| 17:19.15 | djszapi | wazzap |
| 17:19.21 | ZogG_N9 | fine |
| 17:19.27 | djszapi | http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NOA3.DE |
| 17:19.30 | Venemo_N9 | djszapi, I can't really get used to the light, but that's my fault |
| 17:19.37 | ZogG_N9 | got from army week |
| 17:19.49 | djszapi | the russian oligarchy will be happy soon. :) |
| 17:19.53 | ZogG_N9 | Venemo_N9, mazal tov with n9 |
| 17:20.03 | djszapi | Venemo_N9: you have not been in Oulu yet |
| 17:20.04 | ZogG_N9 | djszapi, why? |
| 17:20.08 | djszapi | I was there last weekend |
| 17:20.14 | djszapi | well, basically nonstop light... :) |
| 17:20.20 | djszapi | at least we have some dark in Helsinki. |
| 17:20.24 | djszapi | or dark'ish :) |
| 17:20.35 | djszapi | ZogG_N9: 'cause the russian oligarchy will buy up in pieces. |
| 17:20.55 | ZogG_N9 | djszapi, buy what? |
| 17:21.34 | djszapi | ZogG_N9: flying saucers |
| 17:21.44 | Venemo_N9 | djszapi, well, it's daylight here in the middle of the night |
| 17:22.01 | Venemo_N9 | I didn't sleep well becuse of that |
| 17:22.12 | djszapi | then do not go to Oulu :p |
| 17:22.26 | djszapi | I did not notice in the "palju" it was 3-5'ish am. |
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| 17:22.43 | Venemo_N9 | I didn't notice here either |
| 17:22.59 | djszapi | there is some dark'ish here. |
| 17:23.18 | Venemo_N9 | maybe the only difference is that the streets were empty and the pubs full |
| 17:24.29 | djszapi | it reminds me to go home :) |
| 17:24.44 | Venemo_N9 | :) |
| 17:25.05 | Venemo_N9 | but anyway, I can see why you like this country |
| 17:25.14 | djszapi | I am leaving it unfortunately :/ |
| 17:25.33 | ZogG_N9 | what cointry? finland? |
| 17:25.43 | djszapi | ZogG_N9: Pakistan xD |
| 17:25.56 | ZogG_N9 | wtf |
| 17:26.38 | Venemo_N9 | djszapi, where're you going? back home? |
| 17:26.54 | djszapi | Ireland. |
| 17:27.21 | Venemo_N9 | hm. |
| 17:27.24 | Venemo_N9 | new job? |
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| 17:27.32 | djszapi | there is no Qt community in there... I need to establish one. |
| 17:27.32 | djszapi | :p |
| 17:27.41 | Venemo_N9 | I see. |
| 17:27.52 | Venemo_N9 | oh, and I got a new toy :) |
| 17:28.47 | ieatlint | you working for nokia now Venemo_N9 ? |
| 17:28.57 | Venemo_N9 | no |
| 17:29.00 | denism | ~logs |
| 17:29.00 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23harmattan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. |
| 17:29.17 | djszapi | ieatlint: working for what ? |
| 17:29.34 | Venemo_N9 | I'm just here for the devaamo summit |
| 17:29.37 | Venemo_N9 | :) |
| 17:29.42 | ieatlint | nokia, it's this weird company that speaks some made up language up north |
| 17:30.12 | ieatlint | ah, cool |
| 17:30.13 | djszapi | ah yeah, the devaamo thingy... |
| 17:30.18 | djszapi | too bad I cannot be there. |
| 17:30.26 | Venemo_N9 | yeah, too bad. |
| 17:30.33 | djszapi | Tampere is an aweasome city. :) |
| 17:30.50 | Venemo_N9 | but lots of community members are here, so that's nice |
| 17:31.32 | ieatlint | one week until the qtcs starts... |
| 17:31.36 | ieatlint | is looking forward to that |
| 17:31.47 | djszapi | ieatlint: we will not be getting next billion devices |
| 17:32.05 | ieatlint | djszapi, i assumed not |
| 17:32.10 | djszapi | to be honest, there is no product around Qt5 visibly. |
| 17:32.14 | *** part/#harmattan astm (astm@nat/indt/x-fpjtotxrkjpgzhnp) |
| 17:32.14 | ieatlint | i'm not expecting any handouts |
| 17:32.20 | djszapi | I did. |
| 17:32.21 | Venemo_N9 | how awful is that. |
| 17:32.25 | djszapi | why else would I go there ? :p |
| 17:32.54 | Venemo_N9 | but anyway, I got this N9 for experimenting with Qt5 |
| 17:33.13 | ieatlint | how well does qt5 work on the n9? |
| 17:33.14 | djszapi | I would say, the Qt5 Harmattan session is a must have after the today news at QtCS. |
| 17:33.19 | djszapi | but let us see what others will think. |
| 17:33.28 | djszapi | ieatlint: well, qt5 is a toy yet |
| 17:33.41 | djszapi | totally unreliable for a product IMO. |
| 17:33.55 | djszapi | unsure if it is get mature after the today news. |
| 17:33.55 | Venemo_N9 | haven't actually tried yet. but I know it's alpha, don't expect much |
| 17:34.06 | djszapi | Venemo_N9: it is almost beta, if not yet. |
| 17:34.10 | djszapi | but still ... |
| 17:34.22 | Venemo_N9 | djszapi, beta is unreleased |
| 17:34.35 | Venemo_N9 | but I see your point |
| 17:35.00 | djszapi | there is no real useful product around Qt5. |
| 17:35.09 | ieatlint | djszapi, yeah, i know a bit on it all |
| 17:35.10 | djszapi | I am not aware of any bigger investigation (as in R&D) |
| 17:35.26 | ieatlint | and have enjoyed the pain of building qt5 many times |
| 17:35.28 | djszapi | Nokia was doing that mostly. |
| 17:35.32 | djszapi | oh yes, and KDAB with QNX. |
| 17:35.54 | Venemo_N9 | so, what'll happen in your opinion djszapi? |
| 17:36.03 | djszapi | building with VS 2012 RC is fun :) |
| 17:36.11 | ieatlint | hahaha |
| 17:36.22 | djszapi | Venemo_N9: well, it is part of the apocalypse anticipated by the end of this year by the maya dream team. |
| 17:36.46 | ieatlint | i'm actually sitting here in the background building a c library in a mingw32 toolchain with cmake |
| 17:37.04 | ieatlint | can't imagine the horror of the whole qt5 base on this :P |
| 17:37.26 | djszapi | I was lolled when I asked for help on #qt-labs |
| 17:37.34 | djszapi | with qt4 support work for a Qt5 module... |
| 17:37.46 | djszapi | to be honest, I had no other choice to go for as a commercial product base. |
| 17:38.00 | djszapi | I was getting a lot of feedback like who cares about qt4 :D |
| 17:38.07 | Venemo_N9 | lol |
| 17:38.33 | djszapi | as for me, it is working (TM) |
| 17:38.56 | djszapi | but yeah... good point to consider Qt5 for Harmattan, otherwise it remains a desktop thingy ... |
| 17:39.13 | npm | so what does all the bad news and "Elop said that Nokia will double down on the Lumia line" mean for harmattan, meltemi, etc? |
| 17:39.56 | djszapi | next-billion: gone |
| 17:40.02 | djszapi | etc: most likely gone |
| 17:40.09 | djszapi | harmattan: it had no presence anyway, so nothing new. |
| 17:40.13 | npm | waaah |
| 17:40.37 | Venemo_N9 | djszapi, was there going to be etc? |
| 17:40.44 | npm | ^^ sound of babies crying inconsolably |
| 17:40.47 | djszapi | well, IMO, the most reasonable question, when will Nokia go finally bankrupt :D |
| 17:40.50 | ieatlint | all rumour, but yeah, i wouldn't bet on meltemi seeing the light of day |
| 17:40.59 | djszapi | ieatlint: it is not. |
| 17:41.22 | ieatlint | heh |
| 17:41.45 | npm | if only they could keep elop from speaking, the stock price would stay high and they'd have money to pay employees. |
| 17:41.55 | djszapi | I kinda hoped for that Nokia can at least stay a hardware developmetn company. |
| 17:42.03 | djszapi | but I do not see how this company could survive at all for anything :D |
| 17:42.41 | npm | yeah but you seem to have fairly rigid viewpoints :-) |
| 17:42.55 | djszapi | indeed :) |
| 17:43.32 | djszapi | poor buying shares few years ago in the golden age ... |
| 17:43.38 | djszapi | poor people* |
| 17:43.46 | ZogG_N9 | Venemo_N9, sup man |
| 17:44.31 | npm | on the other hand, consider that the bad news is preparatory for bad times in EU, and thus nobody buying any handsets. in which case the announcements of staff reductions make sense |
| 17:45.09 | npm | but what doesn't make sense is that EU is not entire market, and NOK might have better presense in non damaged markets than others. |
| 17:45.32 | djszapi | you joking, right ? :) |
| 17:45.45 | npm | who sells in india and china? |
| 17:45.48 | djszapi | "nobody buying any handsets" -> with this. |
| 17:46.45 | npm | europeans tend to go into full ghetto mode as soon as there's a cloud on the horizons... americans keep charging their credit cards |
| 17:46.54 | ZogG_N9 | lol i'm totally ignored today |
| 17:47.15 | ieatlint | you should take it personally |
| 17:47.29 | djszapi | ieatlint: do not reply to him, just ignore :D |
| 17:47.30 | ZogG_N9 | Venemo_N9, btw push irc chatter to apps for meego |
| 17:47.51 | ZogG_N9 | djszapi, =) |
| 17:48.05 | ZogG_N9 | djszapi, i know u love me |
| 17:48.19 | npm | djszapi: http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuittinen/2012/06/14/silent-spring-what-the-handset-warning-cluster-means/ |
| 17:48.41 | npm | not that you can trust forbes but at least the author has a finnish sounding name |
| 17:48.48 | djszapi | haha xD |
| 17:49.31 | djszapi | unfortunately need to leave |
| 17:49.39 | ZogG_N9 | =( |
| 17:49.41 | djszapi | have fun to everybody :) |
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| 17:50.25 | npm | is security escorting you out of the building now and you got your box filled? |
| 17:50.48 | npm | shakes head with grim sarcasm |
| 17:52.25 | ieatlint | haha |
| 17:53.09 | Venemo_N9 | ZogG, i'm planning to |
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| 18:06.04 | ashfjjfjf_ | Venemo_N9, ping |
| 18:06.37 | ashfjjfjf__ | Venemo_N9, irc-chatter is broken. |
| 18:07.46 | Venemo_N9 | ashfjjfjf, yep. in what way? |
| 18:08.08 | lpapp | nick name change does not work |
| 18:08.22 | lpapp | as you can see, it only append an underscore |
| 18:08.35 | lpapp | ohhh I see why... |
| 18:08.45 | lpapp | cause djszapi is reserved |
| 18:08.52 | lpapp | and currently used |
| 18:09.11 | lpapp | perhaps you should not insert an underscore in that case. |
| 18:09.49 | Venemo_N9 | what should I do in that case? |
| 18:10.07 | lpapp | error, and keep the current |
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| 18:11.12 | Venemo_N9 | can't keep the current |
| 18:11.14 | love-aegis-kids | also, i do not see the changed nickname as a feedback either. |
| 18:11.32 | love-aegis-kids | why couldn't you ? |
| 18:11.32 | Venemo_N9 | the server'll disconnect if I keep the same |
| 18:12.07 | love-aegis-kids | funky architectural issue to me... |
| 18:12.13 | Venemo_N9 | anyway, the app truly needs some love. |
| 18:12.35 | love-aegis-kids | well, my about 20 reports are still in the queue :) |
| 18:12.42 | Venemo_N9 | but you can't connect with an already used nickname |
| 18:12.54 | love-aegis-kids | ... and ? |
| 18:12.56 | Venemo_N9 | indeed, they're in my mailbox |
| 18:13.11 | Venemo_N9 | haven't forgotten |
| 18:13.19 | Venemo_N9 | just not much time |
| 18:14.58 | love-aegis-kids | have you been in the amusement park ? |
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| 18:17.34 | Venemo_N9 | not yet |
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| 19:11.00 | CreMindES | Hi, can someone help me with N9 and SDK Connection setup, I'm continously getting 'Connection failed: The remote host closed the connection' over WLAN from Qt SDK? |
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| 19:12.37 | pa | anybody did something with python and qbluetooth? |
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| 20:08.26 | cremindes | I trying to set up the connection between my N9 and Qt SDK over Wifi, but I'm getting 'Connection failed: The remote host closed the connection' message when trying to deploy the key. Developer mode on, VNC runnig, ip is the same, ip 192.168.1.5, port 5900, same at USB except that it got the 192.168.1.15 ip |
| 20:08.33 | cremindes | Can somebody help me with this? |
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| 20:29.34 | cremindes | it's okay now |
| 20:34.29 | pa | question |
| 20:34.55 | pa | i tried to compile and install on the N9 the bluetooth scanner (widget version) demo application |
| 20:35.14 | pa | but why does it have the non very mobile UI, also with wrong orientation? |
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| 20:36.00 | pa | and i cant even close it |
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| 20:58.11 | pa | but is it actually possible to have a standard widget app on N9 that looks and feels like a mobile app? |
| 20:58.23 | pa | or MUST it be qtquick? |
| 20:58.35 | ieatlint | standard widget app? no |
| 20:59.21 | ieatlint | generally, you must use qml, but the exception is that there are libmeegotouchframework (aka libmtf) widgets |
| 20:59.22 | pa | so i must make it in qtquick, right? |
| 20:59.32 | pa | ah ok |
| 20:59.34 | pa | thanks! |
| 21:00.12 | ieatlint | but you're probably going to cause yourself more of a headache trying to use the mtf widgets than just accepting the javascript based bizarreness of qml |
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| 21:00.54 | pa | yeah i guess |
| 21:01.03 | pa | so i probably have to dive into qtquick |
| 21:01.14 | pa | any great starting point? |
| 21:02.27 | ieatlint | i don't have any good suggestions... someone else in here hopefully will |
| 21:02.38 | ieatlint | have fun though, it's a headache :P |
| 21:02.52 | pa | hmm :) |
| 21:05.43 | pa | i but btw is it true nokia fired a lot of qt developers? |
| 21:06.53 | beford | yes |
| 21:06.57 | ieatlint | there's no public statement to that effect, and i dunno much beyond that |
| 21:07.17 | ieatlint | hah, ouch then :/ |
| 21:08.05 | beford | https://twitter.com/#!/savola https://twitter.com/#!/tuomotanskanen and a couple more I've seen on twitter |
| 21:09.00 | beford | https://twitter.com/felipec/statuses/213225983849934849 |
| 21:09.48 | pa | rip nokia |
| 21:11.46 | pa | and poor guys :( |
| 21:15.08 | beford | yea sucks |
| 21:15.53 | pa | i wonder whether elop lives in finland.. |
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| 21:17.21 | beford | elopcalypse |
| 21:17.43 | ieatlint | 2.0 |
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| 21:18.56 | ieatlint | i'm getting vivid memories of the burning platform metaphors |
| 21:19.11 | ieatlint | funny how that only seems more true today |
| 21:19.25 | npm | https://www.google.com/search?q=selop+trollface does not yet return interesting results |
| 21:19.54 | npm | elopcalypsalooza |
| 21:20.46 | pa | funny they kill maemo and they keep symbian, tho |
| 21:21.01 | pa | (still) |
| 21:21.13 | ieatlint | symbian has a huge user base and app base |
| 21:21.21 | ieatlint | but they are killing it |
| 21:22.47 | npm | https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23elopcalypsalooza |
| 21:23.03 | npm | i call a hashtag |
| 21:23.10 | pa | i mean, considering that the users are becoming dumber and dumber, this strategy might actually work, as long as they keep good phone designers |
| 21:23.22 | pa | at least work for a while |
| 21:23.40 | npm | so is that where the 1.3 update went?? |
| 21:24.33 | npm | or will there be one still? |
| 21:24.48 | ieatlint | i wouldn't be either way |
| 21:25.48 | pa | lets hope they release the source code of everything, at least |
| 21:26.25 | ieatlint | highly unlikely |
| 21:26.33 | pa | i wonder how easy would it be to port it to some other chip, like omap4/5 or snapdragon |
| 21:27.12 | pa | well.. if i were one of the fired guys, i would make sure this would happen, in a way or another |
| 21:28.07 | juhaj | So, how many casualties are there to be found here today? =( |
| 21:31.42 | juhaj | I just got one of my best friends as a casualty today. The rest of them went in the first wave already. |
| 21:32.14 | pa | but are they keeping the rest, or will elop fire them all soon or late? |
| 21:33.16 | beford | I've read about 10mil wil be fired before 2013 |
| 21:33.20 | beford | will* |
| 21:33.23 | pa | hmm |
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| 21:40.22 | beford | i suppose killing meltemi is related to nokia+ms working on getting lower hw requirements for WP |
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| 21:40.48 | pa | wasnt Flop claiming that he was going to bring Qt to the "next billion"? |
| 21:41.18 | beford | "Engineers were locked out of their source code management systems and wikis before the announcements were made this morning." Really? |
| 21:41.58 | pa | like if they dont have the sources locally.. lol |
| 21:42.34 | rzr | the good news is http://swipe.nokia.com/ is back :) |
| 21:45.10 | beford | that means pr1.3 will be out sooner |
| 21:45.11 | beford | (?) |
| 21:51.51 | ieatlint | hah |
| 21:53.03 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 21:53.35 | ieatlint | no one should be acting that surprised |
| 21:54.08 | SpeedEvil | wishes he'd invested in some not-stock |
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| 21:56.32 | SpeedEvil | Nokia was last at its current stock price in 1996. |
| 21:57.07 | ieatlint | but what was the volume in 1996? |
| 21:57.52 | SpeedEvil | About a tenth of now |
| 21:58.16 | ieatlint | so the company is still worth 10x.. |
| 21:59.02 | SpeedEvil | Oh - sure - I know that. |
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| 22:05.34 | marsje_ | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/14/nokia_software_purge/ |
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| 22:06.30 | marsje_ | so, when will Meego be open-sourced? |
| 22:06.54 | marsje_ | and out of control of any manager-type person |
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| 22:09.46 | SpeedEvil | All - in all - :/ |
| 22:09.57 | SpeedEvil | I'd hoped that at least something would come out of meltmi. |
| 22:10.16 | SpeedEvil | Even if it was only hw with drivers. |
| 22:11.32 | marsje_ | how many mobile linux-based OS projects have been started and killed? |
| 22:11.58 | SpeedEvil | looks on ebay, to see a container of 40000 n950s, with a starting price of 1 euro. |
| 22:12.02 | SpeedEvil | (not really) |
| 22:12.06 | marsje_ | haha |
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| 22:12.47 | marsje_ | it's time some hardware company starts building open, OS-less phones, just like PCs |
| 22:13.48 | SpeedEvil | The second last phone that I bought booted to linux kernel panic, as it diddn't come with a rootfs. |
| 22:13.49 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:14.00 | SpeedEvil | hardware is annoyingly expensive. |
| 22:14.26 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/opensourcehw.txt canned rant |
| 22:17.23 | rzr | marsje_, geeksphone aims to do that isnt it ? |
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| 22:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 22:27.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | gta04.org |
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| 22:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, hw *is* annoyingly expensive to manufacture |
| 22:28.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | gta04 could be half the pricetag at 50 times the volukme produced |
| 22:29.56 | SpeedEvil | And yes. |
| 22:29.57 | SpeedEvil | That too. |
| 22:29.59 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 22:32.12 | juhaj | rzr: geeksphone? |
| 22:32.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | *burp* |
| 22:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | all kudos to Mr Schaller of Goldelico, who managed to produce GTA04 from his holiday purse |
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| 22:38.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the record: http://www.google.de/search?q=gta04+keyboard |
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| 22:45.45 | marsje_ | SpeedEvil: interesting link... but not sure why a phone needs to be so different as a pc |
| 22:46.28 | marsje_ | rzr: hadn't heard of geeksphone yet, but sounds interesting |
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| 22:47.12 | marsje_ | DocScrutinizer05: gta04 looks fun too |
| 22:48.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | GTA04 definitely is the better N9 |
| 22:49.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | marsje_: and it's definitely the open, Os-less device you asked for |
| 23:00.45 | rzr | and support qt (moko) |
| 23:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | N950 on Ebay - startung offer: 10kEUR |
| 23:10.44 | ieatlint | has anyone actually seen an n950 appear on ebay? |
| 23:11.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pondering |
| 23:11.08 | rzr | apple think different : http://www.newser.com/story/147523/1k-workers-riot-at-foxconn.html |
| 23:17.04 | SpeedEvil | marsje_: A PC motherboard likely costs even more than a phone to develop - especially if it's your first. |
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