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| 00:09.00 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks | LATEST ~update |
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| 00:09.06 | djszapi | they seem to remove the file in 1-2 minutes |
| 00:19.11 | djszapi | may my bank charge me with some extra fee for making this 1 EUR Ovi payment ? |
| 00:21.58 | ieatlint | uh, if your account is in a currency other than euros, you'll probably get a foreign currency fee |
| 00:22.28 | djszapi | I just recall I had to pay something like 10 EUR more when I did not make the transfer in my netbank account |
| 00:22.44 | djszapi | but explicitely giving out the data (while booking a flight ticket). |
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| 00:31.52 | itsnotabigtruck | credit card foreign currency fees are usually around 3% |
| 00:32.00 | itsnotabigtruck | so not that big of a deal on a 1 euro charge |
| 00:32.27 | itsnotabigtruck | but no idea about it on a debit card |
| 00:32.44 | djszapi | visa election / debit / eur |
| 00:45.07 | itsnotabigtruck | http://www.nordea.fi/Personal+customers/Cards+and+payments/Cards/Prices/1012022.html |
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| 00:45.15 | itsnotabigtruck | hmm, i'm not finding anything about foreign currency transaction fees there |
| 00:46.11 | itsnotabigtruck | (also, 24 euros a year for a debit card? x_x) |
| 00:51.28 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: er, wait a min, your account is probably in EUR, so why is a foreign transaction fee an issue? |
| 00:51.45 | itsnotabigtruck | but i did find this http://www.nordea.fi/Personal+customers/Cards+and+payments/Advice+on+cards+and+payments/Exchange+rates+to+card+transactions/1414462.html |
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| 01:40.12 | faenil | qml doesn't let you use enums as function parameters :O |
| 01:40.16 | faenil | crap! |
| 01:44.08 | ieatlint | javascript doesn't have enums i thought? |
| 01:44.22 | ieatlint | should translate back to ints fine |
| 01:50.09 | faenil | it says type unrecognized |
| 01:50.16 | faenil | I'm passing the enum from c++ to qml |
| 01:50.28 | faenil | and qml sees it correctly (the autocompletion sees it) |
| 01:50.36 | faenil | but I get the error at runtime |
| 01:51.02 | ieatlint | huh... i guess cast it to int in c++ first |
| 01:52.45 | faenil | I used another workaround |
| 01:52.48 | faenil | but eh |
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| 16:00.22 | *** join/#harmattan infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 16:00.22 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | ~aegis-no-thanks | LATEST ~update |
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| 16:01.11 | *** join/#harmattan jreznik_n9__ (communi@nat/redhat/x-iesagpionakvydsp) |
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| 16:22.50 | Jeffrey041 | friend is helping me to build a package with pyside code |
| 16:22.54 | Jeffrey041 | and i am getting this error |
| 16:22.55 | Jeffrey041 | :-1: error: Packaging Error: Command '/Users/jeffrey04/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad dpkg-buildpackage -nc -uc -us' failed.Exit code: 2 |
| 16:23.03 | Jeffrey041 | what is the problem here? |
| 16:25.28 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@plexyplanet.org) |
| 16:25.41 | Jeffrey041 | in full, i am getting these error |
| 16:25.42 | Jeffrey041 | find: -printf: unknown option |
| 16:25.43 | Jeffrey041 | dh_installdeb: command returned error code |
| 16:25.43 | Jeffrey041 | make: *** [binary-arch] Error 1 |
| 16:25.43 | Jeffrey041 | dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules binary gave error exit status 2 |
| 16:25.43 | Jeffrey041 | Packaging Error: Command '/Users/jeffrey04/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad dpkg-buildpackage -nc -uc -us' failed.Exit code: 2 |
| 16:25.43 | Jeffrey041 | Error while building project restricted-mode-toggler (target: Harmattan) |
| 16:25.43 | Jeffrey041 | When executing build step 'Create Debian Package' |
| 16:26.13 | jpwhiting | Jeffrey041: looks like an error in your debian/rules file |
| 16:26.27 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: please use some paste sites :) |
| 16:26.38 | jpwhiting | :) yep |
| 16:26.38 | Jeffrey041 | jpwhiting: i get those from qtcreator |
| 16:26.41 | itsnotabigtruck | https://gist.github.com/ |
| 16:26.42 | jpwhiting | pastebin is your friend |
| 16:26.48 | Jeffrey041 | lol, sorry |
| 16:27.01 | jpwhiting | Jeffrey041: in compile output tab? |
| 16:27.04 | djszapi | hey itsnotabigtruck :) |
| 16:27.08 | itsnotabigtruck | > find: -printf: unknown option |
| 16:27.17 | Jeffrey041 | jpwhiting: yes |
| 16:27.18 | Jeffrey041 | :D |
| 16:27.25 | itsnotabigtruck | well, that's the problem...grep your package files for printf maybe? |
| 16:27.52 | itsnotabigtruck | if you're using the printf shell command maybe it's being stuck on the end of a find command |
| 16:28.00 | itsnotabigtruck | that would do it, probably |
| 16:28.18 | Jeffrey041 | package files? |
| 16:28.24 | itsnotabigtruck | you know, anything that isn't code |
| 16:28.30 | itsnotabigtruck | on second thought it's probably in your makefile install target |
| 16:28.38 | Jeffrey041 | http://pastebin.com/wtD1eMQf |
| 16:28.47 | Jeffrey041 | no idea, got everything set up by qt creator |
| 16:28.58 | Jeffrey041 | http://pastebin.com/wtD1eMQf < the complete compile log |
| 16:28.59 | itsnotabigtruck | btw don't pastebin things with the privacy set to public :p |
| 16:29.28 | Jeffrey041 | lol |
| 16:30.12 | itsnotabigtruck | apparently -printf is an argument to find...on some versions |
| 16:30.19 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: as jpwhiting advised: can you show the debian/rules file ? |
| 16:30.20 | itsnotabigtruck | probably not on busybox or whatever madde uses though |
| 16:30.30 | Jeffrey041 | let me find where it is |
| 16:30.55 | itsnotabigtruck | https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-21908 |
| 16:31.15 | itsnotabigtruck | it's not your fault |
| 16:31.32 | itsnotabigtruck | are you using os x? because if so that's def it |
| 16:31.35 | itsnotabigtruck | (as your dev OS) |
| 16:32.19 | Jeffrey041 | yea, using os x |
| 16:32.28 | Jeffrey041 | snow leopard |
| 16:32.39 | djszapi | use gnu find :) |
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| 16:33.27 | Jeffrey041 | so moral of the story: use any linux distro for harmattan development? lol |
| 16:33.32 | itsnotabigtruck | basically yeah |
| 16:33.37 | itsnotabigtruck | specifically debian or ubuntu |
| 16:33.50 | djszapi | btw |
| 16:33.58 | djszapi | what the heck is qtcreator doing ? :) |
| 16:34.06 | djszapi | never had the need for such a file/code. |
| 16:34.19 | itsnotabigtruck | that's a good question...i'm having trouble figuring out what that line actually does |
| 16:34.29 | djszapi | I have ported 200-300 packages. |
| 16:34.35 | djszapi | but I never had to have such a file/content. |
| 16:35.22 | itsnotabigtruck | ok, what it's doing is stripping the buildroot prefix off of it |
| 16:35.27 | itsnotabigtruck | to generate a conffiles list |
| 16:35.38 | itsnotabigtruck | it's assuming every file in /etc/ should be considered a conffile |
| 16:35.49 | *** join/#harmattan jreznik (jreznik@nat/redhat/x-itidwltcqgrjlkts) |
| 16:36.07 | itsnotabigtruck | which means that when you upgrade the package, if you modified the file, the user is asked whether to overwrite it or set it aside for merging |
| 16:37.01 | djszapi | phantastic qtcreator :) |
| 16:37.25 | itsnotabigtruck | well, it looks like it's actually debhelper (debian code) which explains why it's relying on gnu stuff |
| 16:37.43 | alterego | Well, everything under /etc should generally be a configuration file :P |
| 16:37.48 | Jeffrey041 | erm, where is this dh_installdeb? |
| 16:37.52 | djszapi | I would not bother with such a generated code. |
| 16:37.58 | itsnotabigtruck | so Jeffrey041: if you hack the problematic script and change out the line to the one at the very end |
| 16:38.14 | itsnotabigtruck | of the bug comments |
| 16:38.41 | itsnotabigtruck | then it'll regex away the path prefix, which is slightly less reliable but is ok realistically |
| 16:38.57 | Jeffrey041 | where is the script located?! |
| 16:39.06 | itsnotabigtruck | i think it says somewhere in the bug too :p |
| 16:39.19 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: debian folder. |
| 16:39.21 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@131.114.171.29) |
| 16:39.28 | itsnotabigtruck | nope, well, try a find -name dh_installdeb |
| 16:39.34 | itsnotabigtruck | from the root of madde |
| 16:40.26 | djszapi | debian file is nope in the debian folder ? huh ? :) |
| 16:40.39 | itsnotabigtruck | also alterego: sort of, but you don't necessarily always want the conffile treatment |
| 16:40.57 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: well, i'm not sure what you mean by the 'debian folder' - this isn't one of the package control files |
| 16:41.16 | itsnotabigtruck | it's a system script that's probably somewhere in the madde root |
| 16:41.21 | djszapi | I do not think debian file is part of the project |
| 16:41.26 | alterego | itsnotabigtruck: maybe _you_ don't but what if a user expects it? |
| 16:41.28 | djszapi | it is more like part of the packaging which is the debian folder. |
| 16:41.41 | alterego | Anyway, for "apps" you probably want to stick your config under ~/.config or something .. |
| 16:41.54 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: it's neither...it's part of "debhelper" which is a set of system scripts for automating package generation |
| 16:42.18 | djszapi | and that is what I meant with the debian folder. |
| 16:42.19 | itsnotabigtruck | those scripts don't go with the user code/etc. |
| 16:42.32 | djszapi | yes of course |
| 16:42.48 | itsnotabigtruck | oh...normally the 'debian folder' is where the user puts all the control files |
| 16:42.56 | itsnotabigtruck | rules, changelog, postinst, etc. |
| 16:43.21 | djszapi | well I will not argue about misunderstand if it is clear by now :) |
| 16:43.47 | itsnotabigtruck | anyhow...jeffrey041: did the find command work? |
| 16:43.48 | djszapi | I had also weird issues in madde I have never experienced in scratchbox. |
| 16:44.27 | alterego | djszapi: you should perhaps be clearer to be better understood. I don't see how anyone can think "debian folder" refers to debians packaging helper scripts .. |
| 16:44.39 | alterego | Or, if you're wrong, just say so. |
| 16:44.44 | djszapi | well I will not argue about misunderstand if it is clear by now :) |
| 16:45.04 | alterego | Sure, whatever, you don't argue when you're wrong. I get it. |
| 16:45.37 | alterego | itsnotabigtruck: what is the nature of your application? |
| 16:46.02 | itsnotabigtruck | alterego: mine? Jeffrey041 is having the build problem :p |
| 16:46.04 | djszapi | also, I find it weird on the qt bug tracker if it is actually a madde issue |
| 16:46.08 | alterego | itsnotabigtruck: like I said, you should probably use the /home/user/.config directory for your applications' configuration. /etc should be used strictly by system processes. |
| 16:46.12 | alterego | Oh, Jeffrey041 then ;) |
| 16:46.13 | Jeffrey041 | itsnotabigtruck: found it |
| 16:46.39 | Jeffrey041 | not really paying attention to the chat, did i miss anything lol? |
| 16:47.19 | itsnotabigtruck | Jeffrey041: ok, so patch it :D |
| 16:48.14 | djszapi | I do not still understand why they generate that automatically. |
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| 16:48.29 | itsnotabigtruck | btw @everyone http://zunedevwiki.org/misc/calendar-live-icon_0.1_armel.deb < live calendar icon for PR1.1 |
| 16:48.49 | itsnotabigtruck | i didn't realize PR1.2 already had this functionality when i made it... /me blushes :P |
| 16:49.39 | alterego | itsnotabigtruck: hah, yeah, they stole your idea ;) |
| 16:49.43 | itsnotabigtruck | but it's still pretty neat for us N9-owning plebeians |
| 16:49.52 | alterego | I did notice that and chuckled to myself. |
| 16:50.26 | itsnotabigtruck | unlike the previous attempt that's in the ovi store right now, this one uses a scheduled task and reacts to time and time zone changes |
| 16:50.47 | Jeffrey041 | wahahaha, i don't see my package |
| 16:50.48 | itsnotabigtruck | so e.g. if you disembark from a plane and take your phone off flight mode at 0100h local time, it'll autoupdate the calendar |
| 16:50.51 | Jeffrey041 | dunno where it is |
| 16:51.12 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: it is probably not done yet since there was an error |
| 16:51.20 | alterego | itsnotabigtruck: neat :) |
| 16:51.20 | djszapi | or you already patched it and it built ? |
| 16:51.22 | Jeffrey041 | done without an error |
| 16:51.24 | Jeffrey041 | lol |
| 16:51.29 | Jeffrey041 | patched |
| 16:51.47 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: it is out of the projectroot normally. |
| 16:51.51 | itsnotabigtruck | Jeffrey041: normally packages go into the directory just above the source code folder |
| 16:51.52 | djszapi | at least in my scratchbox. |
| 16:51.59 | djszapi | not sure about qtcreator. |
| 16:52.08 | itsnotabigtruck | so, foo/debian/../.. |
| 16:52.30 | itsnotabigtruck | but maybe qtcreator moves them somewhere else yeah |
| 16:52.37 | Jeffrey041 | no idea |
| 16:52.39 | djszapi | find :) |
| 16:52.44 | djszapi | find ./ -name *.deb or so |
| 16:53.01 | itsnotabigtruck | make that -name '*.deb' |
| 16:53.08 | itsnotabigtruck | to prevent shell wildcard expansion |
| 16:53.13 | djszapi | or \*.deb |
| 16:53.43 | djszapi | I never use quotes myself, and had no problems so far. |
| 16:54.19 | alterego | Yes, but you do have to escape it. |
| 16:54.36 | alterego | quoting is more convenient when you've got more wildcards. |
| 16:54.49 | djszapi | and where do you see more wildcards above ? :) |
| 16:55.08 | alterego | I don't see an escape either, I was mearly pointing out the best use of both. |
| 16:55.15 | Jeffrey041 | ok, found it |
| 16:55.17 | Jeffrey041 | :) |
| 16:55.18 | Jeffrey041 | finally |
| 16:55.30 | djszapi | where was it ? |
| 16:55.49 | Jeffrey041 | in the build directory |
| 16:55.59 | alterego | qtcreator creates it under ../project-build-harmattan/project_v.v.v.deb |
| 16:56.07 | alterego | Or something similar. |
| 16:56.11 | Jeffrey041 | cos os x doesn't assign a different icon i overlooked just now lol |
| 16:56.12 | Jeffrey041 | sorry |
| 16:56.41 | itsnotabigtruck | nice |
| 16:57.01 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: I might need your help with testing a qt patch if/when you have time and sake. |
| 16:57.06 | itsnotabigtruck | before installing it, it might be a good idea to examine the content to make sure your program's actually in there, and it didn't do anything stupid |
| 16:57.17 | itsnotabigtruck | also make sure you're asserting all the privileges you need |
| 16:57.20 | alterego | dpkg -x ftw :) |
| 16:57.23 | Jeffrey041 | djszapi: huh? but i am new to all these things lol |
| 16:57.47 | djszapi | :) |
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| 16:58.30 | itsnotabigtruck | isn't there a dpkg subcommand that lets you just list? |
| 16:58.39 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, dpkg -c |
| 16:58.57 | itsnotabigtruck | and dpkg -I displays package info |
| 16:59.06 | itsnotabigtruck | so use those two on your deb to make sure it looks nice |
| 16:59.43 | djszapi | mmm, dpkg -c seems useful |
| 16:59.49 | djszapi | I have not used it yet. |
| 17:01.01 | djszapi | does not still understand why madde bothers with this etc thing |
| 17:01.15 | Jeffrey041 | :P |
| 17:02.36 | djszapi | meanwhile it might be a good idea on archlinux etc, what will the harmattan average enduser benefit out of that ? |
| 17:03.37 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 17:03.43 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: well, it's intended for system daemons and things like that on normal debian systems |
| 17:03.54 | alterego | Today feels like a Blue day, think I'm going to use my other N9 |
| 17:03.56 | alterego | giggles |
| 17:04.19 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: yes, it makes sense on arch, debian and so on as I said, but on harmattan ? :) |
| 17:04.39 | djszapi | where an average does not even meet the console |
| 17:04.50 | itsnotabigtruck | well, they didn't put that there specifically for harmattan |
| 17:04.50 | Jeffrey041 | alterego: how many n9s do u have? |
| 17:04.51 | djszapi | actually it could mess up the things for end users. |
| 17:05.01 | alterego | 2 personal, 1 work |
| 17:05.13 | itsnotabigtruck | also, wtf |
| 17:05.17 | itsnotabigtruck | why |
| 17:05.19 | alterego | And an N950, though that's for super mer hacking |
| 17:05.24 | Jeffrey041 | whoa |
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| 17:05.30 | itsnotabigtruck | these aren't cheap hardware |
| 17:05.33 | itsnotabigtruck | even with the recent price cuts |
| 17:05.36 | alterego | I only paid for one |
| 17:05.46 | itsnotabigtruck | btw newegg cut its n9 pricing again |
| 17:05.53 | Jeffrey041 | lol, they are priced ok'ish in malaysia |
| 17:05.54 | Jeffrey041 | :P |
| 17:05.55 | itsnotabigtruck | a couple weeks after i finally buy :( |
| 17:06.08 | djszapi | has every color expect pink :( |
| 17:06.12 | djszapi | except* |
| 17:06.45 | alterego | Yeah, I've got black, blue and white too :P |
| 17:06.50 | itsnotabigtruck | Jeffrey041: like how much specifically? |
| 17:07.06 | alterego | should buy some from Malaysia then :P |
| 17:07.08 | Jeffrey041 | 16gb official price myr1799 |
| 17:07.12 | djszapi | got white from Nokia one and half a year ago |
| 17:07.17 | djszapi | blue at the qt dev days |
| 17:07.33 | Jeffrey041 | djszapi: oh, you got the prototype? |
| 17:07.36 | djszapi | and black at some internal stuff |
| 17:07.46 | djszapi | I have not seen free pink devices |
| 17:07.51 | Jeffrey041 | lol |
| 17:08.11 | Jeffrey041 | mine is a 64gb black (white is not available yet), myr2088 |
| 17:08.21 | alterego | You'd think _those_ would be the ones they'd give away. :D |
| 17:08.28 | itsnotabigtruck | Jeffrey041: that comes out to just about US$600 even |
| 17:08.40 | itsnotabigtruck | but you said that's list price, what about street price |
| 17:08.50 | djszapi | alterego: so give one to me please, or let us change :) |
| 17:08.59 | Jeffrey041 | about rm100 off the rrp |
| 17:09.01 | alterego | I don't have one :P |
| 17:09.02 | itsnotabigtruck | also, what is it with those damn unicorn N9s |
| 17:09.06 | alterego | I have the same selection as you |
| 17:09.07 | Jeffrey041 | ~30usd |
| 17:09.11 | itsnotabigtruck | it seems that 100% of the retailers that stock them don't ship overseas |
| 17:09.14 | alterego | As well as two black Lumia 800s :S |
| 17:09.22 | itsnotabigtruck | only within the EU or within scandinavia |
| 17:09.24 | alterego | Well, I gave one away, so I've got one now actually. |
| 17:09.52 | itsnotabigtruck | Jeffrey041: they're currently going for US$470 free shipping on newegg |
| 17:09.57 | Jeffrey041 | lol |
| 17:09.59 | Jeffrey041 | cool |
| 17:10.02 | itsnotabigtruck | but that's with no sales/vat taxes |
| 17:10.09 | Jeffrey041 | free shipping worldwide? |
| 17:10.14 | itsnotabigtruck | no, only in the us |
| 17:10.21 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure if newegg does export sales |
| 17:10.30 | Jeffrey041 | then it would cost probably just as much when they are shipped to malaysia |
| 17:10.44 | itsnotabigtruck | right |
| 17:10.51 | Jeffrey041 | lol, my daemon doesn't run at startup hahahaha |
| 17:10.57 | itsnotabigtruck | my point was more that myr1699 isn't a very good price |
| 17:11.16 | Jeffrey041 | but it does work it seems |
| 17:11.17 | itsnotabigtruck | well, it's not bad at all actually |
| 17:11.22 | itsnotabigtruck | hrm |
| 17:11.42 | Jeffrey041 | i mean the daemon works, just that it is not called by upstart at start up lol |
| 17:11.44 | itsnotabigtruck | btw make sure you really need a daemon |
| 17:11.53 | itsnotabigtruck | last thing users want is a bunch of useles daemons |
| 17:12.25 | itsnotabigtruck | e.g. doesn't that manga reader program load a daemon? that's a perfect example of something undesirable |
| 17:12.31 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: have you waited at least couple of minutes ? |
| 17:12.31 | Jeffrey041 | i really wish nokia would do this http://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=55 |
| 17:12.36 | djszapi | is it in /etc/init/app/ ? |
| 17:12.43 | djszapi | have youtried to run the job manually ? |
| 17:12.47 | Jeffrey041 | conf is in /etc/init/app |
| 17:12.47 | djszapi | /etc/init/apps* |
| 17:12.58 | djszapi | try to run manually |
| 17:13.03 | djszapi | it will report the syntax failures, if any. |
| 17:13.06 | Jeffrey041 | yea, ran it manually |
| 17:13.30 | djszapi | have you waited enough after the reboot ? |
| 17:13.41 | Jeffrey041 | how long does it take ? |
| 17:13.43 | djszapi | it is run even later the the gui stack. |
| 17:13.44 | itsnotabigtruck | ugh, 'behavior by design' is one of the most BS responses to an enhancement request there ever was |
| 17:13.52 | Jeffrey041 | huh, ok |
| 17:13.58 | itsnotabigtruck | of course it's behaving by design, that's why someone filed a report about it |
| 17:14.13 | djszapi | Jeffrey041: 5-10 minutes |
| 17:14.15 | djszapi | I do not know |
| 17:14.20 | Jeffrey041 | ok |
| 17:14.25 | Jeffrey041 | didn't expect that |
| 17:14.27 | djszapi | so it works manually ? |
| 17:14.32 | Jeffrey041 | yea |
| 17:14.35 | Jeffrey041 | it works manually |
| 17:15.04 | djszapi | then only patience that comes up to my mind, sorry. |
| 17:15.23 | Jeffrey041 | yea, it works manually |
| 17:15.28 | Jeffrey041 | gotta try again |
| 17:15.35 | itsnotabigtruck | oh, the daemon is for your wireless control daemon, right |
| 17:15.55 | itsnotabigtruck | and yeah, it can take about 2 mins for upstart stuff to run |
| 17:16.07 | itsnotabigtruck | maybe you should wire your script to run earlier |
| 17:16.08 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: why is it a bull shit if someone wanna have a different goal for the software ? |
| 17:16.19 | *** join/#harmattan xTs (~foo@p4FF354A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:16.29 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: because it's one thing to have some logic behind it |
| 17:16.51 | itsnotabigtruck | it's another to say "your request to add a feature is invalid, because that feature hasn't been added" |
| 17:16.54 | itsnotabigtruck | it's circular logic |
| 17:16.56 | djszapi | we also closed reports like that |
| 17:17.04 | djszapi | enhancement reports so that to keep the project KISS |
| 17:17.10 | djszapi | and not getting overbloated. |
| 17:17.13 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah, because it's a classic strategy to get rid of reports instead of doing something about htenm |
| 17:17.23 | itsnotabigtruck | of course, you can't actually do every enhancement requesy |
| 17:17.29 | djszapi | no |
| 17:17.32 | itsnotabigtruck | but you also don't invalidate them under BS pretenses |
| 17:17.36 | djszapi | it was just about we had different goals |
| 17:17.48 | djszapi | for our software in comparison with 1-2 reporters expected. |
| 17:18.00 | djszapi | I do not think having different goal is a bull shit, is it |
| 17:18.01 | itsnotabigtruck | and what's the goal in this case? not allowing the user to control their access? it doesn't make a lot of sense |
| 17:18.07 | itsnotabigtruck | if it was about bloat, then say that |
| 17:18.10 | itsnotabigtruck | but no one said bloat here |
| 17:18.27 | djszapi | I am replying to your original post |
| 17:18.39 | djszapi | andaccording to that, you cannot say universally it is a bull shit |
| 17:18.59 | djszapi | "ugh, 'behavior by design' is one of the most BS responses to an enhancement request there ever was" -> it is not universally bull shit, that is what I meant to write. |
| 17:19.26 | djszapi | in qt-components they even refused bug fixes for which I even sent patches :) |
| 17:19.43 | *** join/#harmattan risca (~risca@wi-secure-1813.cc.umanitoba.ca) |
| 17:19.46 | itsnotabigtruck | i'm standing by my point, it's nonsensical to say an enhancement request (i.e. a request to alter the design) |
| 17:19.52 | alterego | What you perceived as a bug .. |
| 17:19.54 | itsnotabigtruck | is not valid because it's not part of the design |
| 17:20.07 | alterego | You're notoriously pedantic. |
| 17:20.08 | itsnotabigtruck | if there's a good reason to not resolve the request, then say it |
| 17:20.10 | djszapi | alterego: and also the manager |
| 17:20.19 | djszapi | alterego: but he said "it is not serious bugfix enough". |
| 17:20.23 | alterego | I thought that was flags. |
| 17:20.23 | itsnotabigtruck | if fixing the bug isn't realistic given time and money, then say it |
| 17:20.29 | itsnotabigtruck | don't invent BS reasons to get rid of reports |
| 17:20.32 | djszapi | alterego: no, they were not. |
| 17:20.35 | itsnotabigtruck | that's 3rd rate support |
| 17:20.57 | alterego | Why don't you send the MRs yourself. |
| 17:21.12 | djszapi | alterego: MR does not help |
| 17:21.18 | djszapi | but I belive you know it better than me |
| 17:21.26 | djszapi | MR /was/ sent, it /was/ merged |
| 17:21.35 | djszapi | but if it is not flagged for a bugfix release, what can we do ? :) |
| 17:21.38 | alterego | Oh yes, it caused a regression |
| 17:21.43 | djszapi | no |
| 17:21.50 | djszapi | that is a different patch |
| 17:21.55 | alterego | Well, one of yours did last week. |
| 17:21.57 | djszapi | and that was an enhancement. |
| 17:22.02 | alterego | I'm losing track of your little "improvements" :P |
| 17:22.05 | djszapi | and that was even fixed and merged |
| 17:22.12 | alterego | I know, I helped you fix it. |
| 17:22.16 | djszapi | yes I had many fixes :) |
| 17:22.22 | itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: well, couldn't it be rescheduled for the x+0.1 release? |
| 17:22.23 | djszapi | but that is what you face while developing an app anyway :) |
| 17:22.44 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: no they said they are not serious enough |
| 17:22.59 | djszapi | I made the selection model finally work |
| 17:23.07 | djszapi | with C++ models. |
| 17:23.20 | Jeffrey041 | ok, the daemon is working like it should lol |
| 17:23.20 | itsnotabigtruck | i thought by 'bugfix release' you mean an x+0.0.1 release |
| 17:23.33 | Jeffrey041 | thanks for the help :P |
| 17:23.35 | djszapi | and it was not considered serious enough so the release might be shipped with still useless (multi)selectiondialog :) |
| 17:23.36 | Jeffrey041 | time to sleep |
| 17:23.40 | itsnotabigtruck | since qt minor releases definitely aren't just minor bugs |
| 17:23.53 | alterego | Useless to you, no one else has complained. |
| 17:23.53 | djszapi | it is not qt |
| 17:23.56 | djszapi | it is qt-components. |
| 17:24.01 | djszapi | alterego: what ? |
| 17:24.10 | djszapi | many people here starting with me ajalkane Venemo and so on |
| 17:24.23 | djszapi | there is even a separate thread and even a long blog discussion about that |
| 17:24.29 | djszapi | and they were all like facepalm |
| 17:24.37 | djszapi | it is not gonna get fixed |
| 17:24.41 | alterego | djszapi: you have to remember, that you're asking the wrong people. Harmattan PR releases is one thing, if your patches were of good quality and didn't cause regressions you'd get them into qt-components no problme. |
| 17:24.57 | djszapi | there was no regression |
| 17:24.58 | alterego | You're complaining about getting your patches into PR releases of Harmattan, which is a _whole_ other ball game. |
| 17:25.01 | alterego | Something you should no. |
| 17:25.03 | alterego | ~know |
| 17:25.03 | infobot | well, know is Any fool can know, the point is to understand. - Albert Einstein |
| 17:25.13 | alterego | ^ ++ |
| 17:25.14 | djszapi | what ? |
| 17:25.27 | djszapi | it got merged, had no regressions |
| 17:25.34 | djszapi | tested by other folks here, asked the manager |
| 17:25.36 | djszapi | he rejected |
| 17:25.39 | alterego | So? |
| 17:25.40 | djszapi | community had a facepalm |
| 17:25.45 | alterego | That's how it is. |
| 17:26.01 | djszapi | this is plain embarassing |
| 17:26.14 | alterego | It's business as usual. |
| 17:26.19 | djszapi | and it is not even about a new feature, but make a component work with C++ models, like stringlist :) |
| 17:27.03 | alterego | aaaanyway. |
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| 17:27.12 | alterego | Not getting involved in your trolling any more .. |
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| 17:32.03 | alterego | Well, I just need to glitz up my user interface and I'll submit my IP camera operator UI to Ovi :) |
| 17:32.19 | alterego | Though think I'll test it with some cheap Chinese models that are supposed to be compatible with the Foscam .. |
| 17:32.26 | djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: can you show that bugreport ? |
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| 17:39.16 | DrGrov | Hi everyone |
| 17:39.41 | DrGrov | Is lpsmagic 1.3 available in the Nokia Store for the N9? Or I get it from TMO? |
| 17:40.51 | djszapi | http://store.ovi.com/search?q=lpsmagic |
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| 17:48.21 | itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: no, but you can turn on devmode and install the deb |
| 17:48.33 | itsnotabigtruck | in fact, i'm not sure you even need devmode, just download and run the deb |
| 17:48.45 | itsnotabigtruck | you just need to have unsigned installation turned on first |
| 17:49.06 | itsnotabigtruck | (settings > applications > installations) |
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| 17:51.26 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, I will update it later on tonight. |
| 17:52.22 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: You got a link to the thread of lpsmagic? |
| 17:52.48 | itsnotabigtruck | yeesh :p http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81923 |
| 17:54.23 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Good |
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| 17:54.28 | DrGrov | I will pick it up later |
| 17:55.45 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Can you post instructions on how to install it to cryptch? |
| 17:55.52 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: I remeber some parts but not every part |
| 17:56.28 | itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: my instructions were unneededly complicated |
| 17:56.58 | itsnotabigtruck | if you can't install it from the gui (browser downloads box or a file manager) |
| 17:57.08 | itsnotabigtruck | then just use: pkgmgr install-file -f path/to/deb.deb |
| 17:57.17 | itsnotabigtruck | that will autoinstall the deps and stuff |
| 17:59.33 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Great, I will use pkgmgr install-file -f /path/to/deb.deb then |
| 17:59.35 | itsnotabigtruck | <as root> apt-get update; apt-get install wget; wget http://blah/blah.deb; pkgmgr install-file -f blah.deb |
| 17:59.39 | DrGrov | Ah yes |
| 17:59.42 | DrGrov | Those I do remember |
| 17:59.44 | DrGrov | :) |
| 17:59.44 | itsnotabigtruck | there's complete instructions including the download part |
| 18:00.04 | DrGrov | devel-su for root, rootme normal password? |
| 18:00.08 | itsnotabigtruck | yeah |
| 18:00.16 | DrGrov | I got luckily wget already fixed :) |
| 18:00.22 | DrGrov | Since I got 1.1 of lpsmagic earlier |
| 18:00.54 | djszapi | Finally there's a killer app for Symbian, but it's quite a bit too late... http://t-tests.blogspot.com/2012/02/boobies-for-symbian3-phones.html :) |
| 18:00.57 | DrGrov | I wonder, does it matter if I do devel-su and then wget? I just get the .deb in root then. Should not be a problem? |
| 18:01.05 | DrGrov | Ah, boobies :) |
| 18:02.13 | djszapi | should not. |
| 18:03.13 | DrGrov | Good, I just gotta remember to delete the .deb from root |
| 18:03.58 | DrGrov | Anyone using any Nokia Bluetooth handsfree on the N9/N950? |
| 18:04.18 | DrGrov | Are they working as they should? Volume buttons working properly, answering call with button on the BT? |
| 18:20.56 | ieatlint | DrGrov: yep |
| 18:21.12 | ieatlint | however for stereo audio playback i get issues |
| 18:22.06 | ZogG_laptop | sup |
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| 18:24.02 | npm | some bluetooth issues have been improved for PR1.2 |
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| 18:24.53 | djszapi | anybody having an ssh config setup for the qt-project beyond an insane corporate proxy ? |
| 18:25.06 | djszapi | http://paste.kde.org/205286/ -> trying to get it work hard, but does not work out :/ |
| 18:25.18 | djszapi | I wanted to avoid corkscrew so far. |
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| 19:00.57 | ZogG_laptop | frals: ping |
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| 19:07.41 | blueslee | frals: hello, can you post an image where more than 2 colors are used and the screen is not flickering? for me simple cases dont work |
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| 19:22.12 | DrGrov | admiral0: Hi there. Lpsmagic guy :) |
| 19:22.51 | DrGrov | admiral0: Did you mean that to install version 1.3 of lpsmagic it has to be done the same way as 1.1? But not need to uninstall before, just overwrite install the 1.3 .deb ? |
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| 19:30.25 | frals | ZogG_laptop: pong |
| 19:30.38 | frals | blueslee: http://irc.frals.se/~frals/colors.png dont see any flicker here at least |
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| 19:31.10 | ZogG_laptop | frals: can i bother you little bit more about same thing? |
| 19:31.25 | frals | ZogG_laptop: sure, i cant promise i can do anything thou |
| 19:31.42 | ZogG_laptop | may i pm? |
| 19:31.53 | frals | go ahead, no need to ask |
| 19:32.13 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: I hope 1.3 is installed properly |
| 19:32.44 | DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: InstallFile /root/ls-magic_1.3_armel.deb 100% |
| 19:33.03 | DrGrov | /root/ls-magic_1.3_armel.deb installed successfully! |
| 19:34.01 | DrGrov | I used "pkgmgr install-file -f ls-magic_1.3_armel.deb" |
| 19:35.36 | *** part/#harmattan Jeffrey041 (~Adium@175.139.10.65) |
| 19:35.38 | admiral0 | DrGrov: yes |
| 19:35.52 | admiral0 | lpsmagic is safe to upgrade |
| 19:36.04 | blueslee | frals: thank you, your image is working ... can you check this one for me http://postimage.org/image/6pkyr1n5f/3b7f8d77/ |
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| 19:36.32 | frals | blueslee: do you have a version thats not compressed like hell? |
| 19:36.33 | DrGrov | admiral0: Ok, good. It says installed successfully so. |
| 19:36.48 | DrGrov | admiral0: Do I notice any differencies between 1.1 and 1.3 upon startup? |
| 19:37.25 | blueslee | frals: hehe, you think that may be a problem? |
| 19:37.31 | admiral0 | nope |
| 19:37.38 | admiral0 | 1.3 fixes 1 issue |
| 19:37.43 | frals | blueslee: yes, you are using all kinds of crazy colors in that image ;) |
| 19:37.43 | blueslee | one moment, i will generate one |
| 19:37.52 | frals | blueslee: ill create one that looks like that myself and see |
| 19:38.00 | admiral0 | flash space detection is no more fatal |
| 19:38.24 | blueslee | frals: i thought magenta and cyan would be okay, 00ff00, ff0000 and so on |
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| 19:40.13 | blueslee | frals: my aim is to display a chess board http://postimage.org/image/it87e7atj/ |
| 19:43.31 | vsync | wonder if it'll ever be possible to change background for the applications-view |
| 19:44.08 | frals | for the appgrid? it already is |
| 19:45.02 | frals | blueslee: http://irc.frals.se/~frals/colors2.png works fine for me |
| 19:45.30 | frals | blueslee: do notice the difference that mine is not compressed and is PNG-8 (with only 4 colors in the palette) |
| 19:50.49 | itsnotabigtruck | admiral0: you did fix the dependencies in 1.3 right? |
| 19:51.07 | itsnotabigtruck | because if you didn't, my pkgmgr command would have autoremoved the dependencies |
| 19:53.00 | admiral0 | i think i did |
| 19:54.04 | admiral0 | itsnotabigtruck: it's ok |
| 19:55.06 | admiral0 | i'm thinking of a way to test on the device |
| 19:55.28 | admiral0 | i hate the fact i can't test on the desktop :\ |
| 20:06.06 | ZogG_laptop | hey, anyone with scratchbox here? can you run locate -i xauth ? |
| 20:10.36 | admiral0 | ZogG_laptop: package xauth, /usr/bin/xauth |
| 20:11.14 | frals | hes looking for something like account-plugin-xauth |
| 20:11.56 | ZogG_laptop | admiral0: searching for headers |
| 20:15.20 | admiral0 | ZogG_laptop: |
| 20:15.22 | admiral0 | dpkg-query -S /usr/include/X11/Xauth.h |
| 20:15.25 | admiral0 | libxau-dev: /usr/include/X11/Xauth.h |
| 20:15.38 | ZogG_laptop | not that =) |
| 20:15.47 | ZogG_laptop | the one part of signon plugin |
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| 20:49.52 | npm | "harmattan" was the answer to http://www.theworld.org/geo-quiz-challenge.php -- apparently this year's was very large over west africa |
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| 20:51.39 | Arkenoi | is there any trick to get "Extraplugins accounts UI" working on n950? I get "waiting" and then "download error" |
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| 21:22.45 | npm | blindly runs new /opt/QtSDK/InstrumentationDashboard/bin/instrumentation_dashboard that came w/ qtsdk update |
| 21:23.07 | npm | poked in eye w/ /opt/QtSDK/InstrumentationDashboard/bin/instrumentation_dashboard: /usr/lib64/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.14' not found (required by /opt/QtSDK/InstrumentationDashboard/bin/../lib/libdeviceclient.so.1) |
| 21:27.20 | npm | well it runs on meego 1.2 so i'll just blame it on ancience of desktop |
| 21:31.07 | npm | and it's pretty useful with a nice set of utilities... |
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| 21:36.35 | npm | notes "Following packages need to be installed on device, otherwise the tool name in Instrumentation Dashboard "Tools" menu will be greyed out." |
| 21:38.31 | npm | QUESTION: how come i get "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! latrace swaplogger |
| 21:38.40 | npm | but strace installs w/o complaint |
| 21:41.30 | npm | and so did latrace but .... |
| 21:41.32 | npm | Aegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/swaplogger_0.13+0m6_armel.deb: package 'swaplogger' origin cannot be determined -- signature check failed |
| 21:41.49 | itsnotabigtruck | npm: the former two are probably from the harmattan-dev repo, i bet |
| 21:41.58 | npm | yeah |
| 21:42.03 | itsnotabigtruck | but that's strange, hrm |
| 21:42.36 | itsnotabigtruck | my understanding is that aegis can use either embedded package signatures or the normal apt signing system |
| 21:42.48 | itsnotabigtruck | in the latter case, it matters how you install the package |
| 21:44.29 | npm | so how do i get signatures for latrace and swaplogger |
| 21:44.46 | npm | and why does one succeed and one fail despite the same lack of sig? |
| 21:45.03 | npm | mysteries of PR1.2 |
| 21:49.32 | npm | well that's entertaining you can run your app and strace it from another screen w/ nice graphical summaries |
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| 22:50.44 | ieatlint | hah, so a major nokia manager has stated that there is no plan b should wp7 fail |
| 22:51.07 | ieatlint | not that there was much question that harmattan was truly dead |
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| 22:54.09 | Venemo_N950 | hey |
| 22:54.10 | admiral0 | ieatlint: eh? explain |
| 22:54.51 | ieatlint | from an interview in swedish originally... http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/08/nokia-we-dont-have-a-plan-b/ |
| 22:55.35 | admiral0 | fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu |
| 22:56.20 | ieatlint | plan b is they liquidate i suspect |
| 22:56.25 | ieatlint | (their smart phone biz) |
| 22:57.25 | Venemo_N950 | who cares anymore? |
| 22:57.30 | ieatlint | they're not on a burning platform anymore, they're on one that has yet to break the water surface |
| 22:57.52 | ieatlint | Venemo_N950: it's like watching a train wreck |
| 22:57.56 | ieatlint | you can't look away |
| 22:58.15 | Venemo_N950 | Harmattan was not a burning platform, it just suffered from mismanagement |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@131.114.171.29) |
| 22:58.32 | ieatlint | symbian was |
| 22:58.33 | ieatlint | is |
| 22:58.42 | faenil | evening |
| 22:58.43 | Venemo_N950 | srsly, why doesn't Nokia just ship 10 more Harmattan devices???? |
| 22:59.25 | Venemo_N950 | Harmattan requires very little polishing |
| 22:59.46 | Venemo_N950 | and everyone loves the ui |
| 23:00.03 | ieatlint | because a successful mobile platform these days requires 3rd party app support |
| 23:00.16 | ieatlint | and even wp7 has better app support than harmattan |
| 23:01.11 | ieatlint | nokia tried VERY hard to get 3rd party apps written for symbian/harmattan |
| 23:01.17 | ieatlint | they were laughed away most of the time |
| 23:01.20 | itsnotabigtruck | ieatlint: well, maybe they said that just to reaffirm how committed they are to wp7 or something |
| 23:01.30 | itsnotabigtruck | you know, "there's no plan b because we KNOW plan a will work" |
| 23:01.54 | Clint | "failure is not an option" |
| 23:02.06 | ieatlint | itsnotabigtruck: no idea... i also don't know nokia's management structure. it's also very possible he simply isn't actually aware of all the projects/plans |
| 23:02.09 | itsnotabigtruck | but yeah, nokia is sort of like the van in inception |
| 23:03.01 | itsnotabigtruck | relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOodDxr0pzs |
| 23:03.52 | itsnotabigtruck | that said, the big wp7 plan could work...i suppose the idea is to reposition themselves as the /premium/ wp7 vendor |
| 23:04.16 | itsnotabigtruck | because the other wp7 phones out there just don't seem very premium |
| 23:04.58 | ieatlint | at the end of the second quarter, they'll have a good idea what will happen |
| 23:05.14 | ieatlint | nokia wp7 devices have gone on sale in the US, or are about it |
| 23:05.17 | itsnotabigtruck | also, a big part of the problem is: where is a huge part of software development done |
| 23:05.19 | itsnotabigtruck | the US |
| 23:05.27 | itsnotabigtruck | the market that nokia has continually ignored for about 10 years |
| 23:05.30 | ieatlint | if by the end of q2 they don't see any real adoption... |
| 23:06.03 | itsnotabigtruck | if most programmers don't know what symbian even is, why would they program for it |
| 23:06.41 | ieatlint | haha, i got into a rather.. "heated" discussion with knut about that last winter, and how nokia failed so badly in the US |
| 23:06.47 | itsnotabigtruck | also something like harmattan is what nokia should have centered around 3 or 4 years ago |
| 23:06.54 | itsnotabigtruck | symbian touchscreen was an abject failure |
| 23:07.02 | ieatlint | he tried to explain to me how it's cheaper for me to buy my phones out-right rather than get a discount and sign a contract with a carrier |
| 23:07.09 | itsnotabigtruck | it was really good on phones like the E71 |
| 23:07.41 | itsnotabigtruck | but symbian s60 has a gui that's based entirely on keypad controlled popup menus and such, you can't just slap a touchscreen on top of that |
| 23:08.00 | ieatlint | s/can't/shouldn't/ |
| 23:08.12 | admiral0 | yep |
| 23:08.17 | ieatlint | they shouldn't have done it.. they did |
| 23:08.22 | admiral0 | the new symbian belle is nice |
| 23:08.24 | itsnotabigtruck | also, symbian s60 phones are more "phones with smarts" than "smartphones" |
| 23:08.28 | admiral0 | but it's years late |
| 23:08.31 | itsnotabigtruck | nothing wrong with that, my e71 was the stuff back in the day |
| 23:08.37 | ieatlint | and thus, a platform developed in like 1994 is still being released on phones today |
| 23:08.48 | itsnotabigtruck | but it means that you can't put that against the iphone and modern top-of-the-line android phones |
| 23:09.18 | ieatlint | MS took less time to go "oh shit, maybe we should stop this" ... they learnt a little from windows me anyway |
| 23:10.02 | itsnotabigtruck | also, while it can be cheaper to buy unlocked, a) nokia isn't the only company selling unlocked phones, and b) nokia did zero marketing in north america |
| 23:10.21 | itsnotabigtruck | nobody ever got ad blitzed about the n95, e71, n97, etc. |
| 23:10.28 | ieatlint | there were n95 adverts where i live |
| 23:10.37 | ieatlint | on bus stops and such |
| 23:10.46 | itsnotabigtruck | if no one hears about their products, why would they buy them, cost effective or not |
| 23:11.42 | itsnotabigtruck | all that aside, as much as i dislike nokia dumping maemo/harmattan the lumia 900 could move some units |
| 23:11.48 | itsnotabigtruck | though the 900 looks too large |
| 23:12.07 | itsnotabigtruck | it seems like the trend is toward gigantic phones that barely fit in a pocket, i don't understand |
| 23:12.25 | itsnotabigtruck | there's smaller android phones but they're all low-spec low-end models |
| 23:12.57 | itsnotabigtruck | the N9 is already imo stretching the limit of pocketability, and it's smaller than a lot of the android phones |
| 23:13.13 | ieatlint | eh, wp7 faces some of the same issues harmattan would've... namely, momentum |
| 23:13.24 | ieatlint | people want iphone and android |
| 23:13.27 | itsnotabigtruck | wp7 has a tonne of games |
| 23:13.56 | itsnotabigtruck | fewer than iphone i'm sure, but wp7 does have xbl integration |
| 23:16.59 | admiral0 | itsnotabigtruck: are you kidding? |
| 23:17.03 | admiral0 | games? |
| 23:17.30 | admiral0 | now you can only develop in XNA. |
| 23:17.38 | ieatlint | i'm pretty sure harmattan failed because it didn't have a grindr app |
| 23:18.12 | itsnotabigtruck | admiral0: yeah, but xna also makes it way easier to implement games |
| 23:18.31 | admiral0 | nope |
| 23:18.35 | ieatlint | games that can't be ported to/from wp7 |
| 23:18.39 | itsnotabigtruck | also it makes it fairly easy to port in stuff from xbox live arcade |
| 23:18.39 | admiral0 | consider this |
| 23:18.52 | itsnotabigtruck | also there's a number of pc games built in xna |
| 23:18.53 | ieatlint | xna is kinda odd from the very little i've seen |
| 23:18.55 | admiral0 | you have a game for android/iPhone |
| 23:19.08 | itsnotabigtruck | not all xbox live arcade games are xna based, but some are |
| 23:19.11 | itsnotabigtruck | those can be ported |
| 23:19.13 | admiral0 | you cannot have a C++ lib/engine |
| 23:19.25 | admiral0 | and change things in the frontend |
| 23:19.34 | admiral0 | you have to rewrite everything |
| 23:20.17 | admiral0 | and you don't have XNA on other devices |
| 23:20.31 | admiral0 | so why should you port? |
| 23:21.10 | ieatlint | because nokia sold 600k lumias in 2011, and that's a LOT! |
| 23:21.43 | admiral0 | sure |
| 23:22.01 | ieatlint | yeah, the native lib and opengl support of harmattan were big advantages |
| 23:22.02 | admiral0 | they also seem to have sold more N9 |
| 23:22.33 | ieatlint | oh look, it uses industry-wide specs? weird! |
| 23:23.07 | itsnotabigtruck | keep in mind the lumia launched in late 2011 and there's many other wp7 phones already out there |
| 23:23.16 | itsnotabigtruck | there's certainly well more than 600k wp7 phones total out there |
| 23:23.41 | ieatlint | finding a wp7 phone in the wild has proven less common than finding a webos phone in my experience |
| 23:23.54 | itsnotabigtruck | also the lumia 900 hasn't launched yet and i expect nokia to push that hard in the us |
| 23:24.08 | itsnotabigtruck | though android and iphone already dominated the market |
| 23:24.31 | ieatlint | yeah, we'll know when the second quarter figures are out |
| 23:24.52 | ieatlint | but they're going to have to heavily discount the phones to make sure they move... there's no profit margin on the horizon for them right now |
| 23:25.03 | ieatlint | (would also be largely true for harmattan) |
| 23:27.08 | itsnotabigtruck | no profit margin on a $600 phone? |
| 23:27.17 | itsnotabigtruck | well, nokia probably sunk a ton of r&d expenditure into harmattan |
| 23:27.43 | ieatlint | i meant that to move the n9 in large quantities it needs to be subsidized |
| 23:27.54 | itsnotabigtruck | but since it was developed assuming it wouldn't be killed the moment it was about to launch, it seems odd to attribute sunk r&d costs to the n9 |
| 23:28.05 | ieatlint | and for carriers to bother, nokia will need to take a hit |
| 23:28.21 | itsnotabigtruck | oh, right |
| 23:28.38 | ieatlint | getting someone to adopt a new phone platform is not always easy... typically price point is going to be the best bet in getting it done |
| 23:28.50 | itsnotabigtruck | of course nokia management themselves ensured the n9 won't move by excluding the largest markets |
| 23:29.02 | *** join/#harmattan admiral0_ (~admiral0@adsl-ull-71-141.48-151.net24.it) |
| 23:29.05 | itsnotabigtruck | uk: nope, germany: nope, usa: nope, canada: nope, france: nope |
| 23:29.14 | Venemo_N950 | is back again |
| 23:29.15 | itsnotabigtruck | (not sure if i got that right) |
| 23:29.29 | ieatlint | i think it might have sold in france |
| 23:29.31 | ieatlint | not sure |
| 23:29.58 | itsnotabigtruck | they basically excluded all the large western countries |
| 23:30.05 | itsnotabigtruck | you know, places with lots of people who would buy expensive phones |
| 23:30.40 | itsnotabigtruck | well, australia is large physically, but you know what i mean |
| 23:30.43 | itsnotabigtruck | heh |
| 23:31.11 | itsnotabigtruck | and i just checked, it wasn't marketed in france |
| 23:31.31 | itsnotabigtruck | i think they basically excluded anywhere that they intended to launch a wp7 marketing push later on for |
| 23:32.11 | ieatlint | ouch, you mean the aussies don't get wp7? |
| 23:32.13 | ieatlint | poor guys.. |
| 23:32.18 | itsnotabigtruck | lol |
| 23:32.29 | itsnotabigtruck | well, i assume they'll launch it there, but maybe they won't turn the marketing knob to 11 |
| 23:35.27 | itsnotabigtruck | btw is it possible that fopen, fread, fwrite, fseek, or fclose could return EINTR |
| 23:35.35 | itsnotabigtruck | i've had a hard time finding a precise answer |
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| 23:43.30 | ieatlint | yes |
| 23:44.45 | itsnotabigtruck | ieatlint: with glibc, on linux? |
| 23:45.03 | itsnotabigtruck | (note: not open, read, write, lseek, and close - but the stdio versions) |
| 23:45.34 | ieatlint | my man page says that at least fclose can return any error from close/write/fflush |
| 23:45.37 | ieatlint | which would include EINTR |
| 23:46.04 | itsnotabigtruck | right, i saw that on a stackoverflow post |
| 23:46.12 | itsnotabigtruck | but i thought that might be based on the posix standard |
| 23:46.19 | itsnotabigtruck | which basically says anything can fail for any reason |
| 23:46.32 | itsnotabigtruck | except a lot of those error conditions don't actually exist in reality |
| 23:47.51 | itsnotabigtruck | i just hate writing reams of additional code to handle fringe scenarios like eintr |
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