| 00:14.20 | pawky | to put in the openmode kernel one uses the flasher software right? |
| 00:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | right, that's what I'd suggest to use |
| 00:55.28 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: yeah, sorry... and as far as i understand you can get stuff back to stock root by reflashing it with the original pr1.1 firmware right? :-) |
| 00:55.43 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: (as it will flash both kernel and .. the rest) |
| 00:55.45 | GeneralAntilles | frals, paid for by your ridiculous, burdensome taxes. |
| 00:56.11 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 00:56.30 | pawky | GeneralAntilles: yo what? |
| 00:56.39 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: Thanks.. |
| 00:56.53 | GeneralAntilles | frals is trolling me on delay. :D |
| 00:57.17 | DocScrutinizer | you'll need the stock kernel to replace the openmode kernel, and you'll need a clean rootfs that doesn't make aegis go haywire |
| 00:57.33 | GeneralAntilles | Merry Christmas, to my European friends. :) |
| 00:57.50 | DocScrutinizer | thnaks :-/ |
| 00:58.10 | pawky | GeneralAntilles: merry christmass to you as well.. and all in here :-) |
| 00:58.22 | DocScrutinizer | xmess |
| 00:58.51 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@75-101-67-197.dsl.dynamic.omsoft.com) |
| 00:59.07 | GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, well, it's only once a year so you might as well enjoy it. ;) |
| 00:59.19 | DocScrutinizer | one of the worst days in the whole year |
| 00:59.41 | DocScrutinizer | have a hard time to enjoy it, I'm hungry |
| 01:00.13 | DocScrutinizer | and TV is unbearable |
| 01:00.45 | DocScrutinizer | irc is basically dead |
| 01:00.59 | Clint | it's a hard-knock life |
| 01:00.59 | GeneralAntilles | Sleeeeep |
| 01:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | sooooon |
| 01:01.19 | GeneralAntilles | Everything looks better under sunlight. :P |
| 01:01.39 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: don't use TV, get your films and docs from the net and have a quality time instead :-) |
| 01:02.02 | pawky | GeneralAntilles: depends on who your dating.... |
| 01:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not exactly equipped to do that |
| 01:02.40 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: well.. your online right, thats a good start :-) |
| 01:03.17 | DocScrutinizer | linux doesn't support the VGA out of my laptop, and copying movies to N900 is the nly annoying way to watch anything on a decent screen |
| 01:03.56 | DocScrutinizer | though quality of AV from N900 is sub par |
| 01:04.05 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: what strange laptop do you have? |
| 01:04.26 | DocScrutinizer | FujiSie Esprimo |
| 01:04.41 | DocScrutinizer | dirt cheap crap |
| 01:04.44 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: great on the N9 as well. It's strange they don't advertice the AV out anywhere even though works very nicely |
| 01:05.00 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: Ill guess thats a fujitsu.. |
| 01:05.24 | DocScrutinizer | fujitsu Siemens |
| 01:05.42 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: it sounds quite strange to me its not supported.. are we talking about VDPAU or the card in general? |
| 01:06.26 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: Ive used fujitsu for many years without any problems.. i still have around... 4-5 in my closet with linux on nicely running.. |
| 01:07.02 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: when it comes to VDPAU you might be out of luck, but thas only if you want to watch high def movies.. |
| 01:07.12 | DocScrutinizer | has a friggin video chipset that even Raster gave up on teaching manners, so I got even crappy interpolation lines on the *800 display as the chipset driver doesn't know other than 768 |
| 01:07.46 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: I think they uses the ATI chip right?.... what flavour are you running? |
| 01:07.52 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 01:08.00 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: or intel.. |
| 01:08.04 | DocScrutinizer | npe |
| 01:08.24 | DocScrutinizer | my brain asked Freud about how to handle the name.... |
| 01:08.36 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: npe? |
| 01:08.39 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 01:08.50 | DocScrutinizer | SIS |
| 01:08.58 | DocScrutinizer | SIS970 or sth |
| 01:09.08 | DocScrutinizer | crap |
| 01:09.08 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: ohh.. yeah... these old cards... |
| 01:10.05 | DocScrutinizer | I'm actually amazed it supports anything better than hercules |
| 01:10.54 | DocScrutinizer | well, the whole friggin thing was cheaper than a N900 |
| 01:11.17 | DocScrutinizer | and is 2 years older |
| 01:12.35 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: and you have checked the net thoroughly you wont be able to get it to work? |
| 01:12.41 | DocScrutinizer | fan broke 2 times already, I'm waiting for my brute force fix not sustaining it to work and I'll probably bin it then |
| 01:13.12 | DocScrutinizer | pawky: yes, I think I did |
| 01:13.35 | DocScrutinizer | and I think 3 or 4 years ago Raster did as well |
| 01:14.03 | DocScrutinizer | and I'm not hoping for any new drivers to emerge *now* |
| 01:14.04 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: what linux flavour did you say you are running? |
| 01:14.16 | DocScrutinizer | err, openSuse |
| 01:14.24 | DocScrutinizer | does this matter? |
| 01:14.37 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: err... I have used it on most boxes... it usually works... weird.. |
| 01:14.42 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: tried debian? |
| 01:15.05 | DocScrutinizer | nah, debian xorg doesn't have better drivers for graca |
| 01:15.31 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: well.. yes and no, what comes with it and what you have to compile yourself.. |
| 01:16.20 | DocScrutinizer | there's nuttin neither for precompiled nor for building by myself, for any flavour of kernel |
| 01:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | alias Xserver |
| 01:16.48 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: i got stuck with "#¤%!! ATI radeon card on a mini pc a couple of years ago, and knew there would be no update ever.. thus I know how it feels.. |
| 01:17.33 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: But at least some hardware modes should work... at least standard vga 800x600.. or similar.. |
| 01:18.06 | DocScrutinizer | 1024*768, but the display is *800 |
| 01:19.01 | DocScrutinizer | or was it 1280*768? |
| 01:19.12 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: ill bet the first one.. |
| 01:19.13 | DocScrutinizer | meh, useless |
| 01:19.31 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: if its a 4x3 screen |
| 01:19.39 | DocScrutinizer | 16:10 |
| 01:19.52 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: then the latter.. |
| 01:20.25 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: well... i can tell you the worst investment so far for me has been an ASUS Transformer... |
| 01:21.55 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: except for its powersupply litterarily falling to pieces, and it giving low current through its alloy fram you can feel... the battery halfway falling out of the keyboard so you cannot plug int the power cord on the side without pushing, the whole idiotic idea of having a phone OS on a computer, limited like hell.. well, shall I continue? |
| 01:21.57 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its 1280x800 or 1366x768 those or the common modes, 16:9 or 16:10 |
| 01:22.08 | hiemanshu | s/or/are/ |
| 01:23.32 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (~faenil@188.11.5.60) |
| 01:23.40 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: I wish I will soon be able to flash the unit with Debian... once and for all... |
| 01:24.17 | pawky | hiemanshu: yeah... that sounds more like it.. |
| 01:25.23 | DocScrutinizer | Silicon Integrated 771/671 PCIE VGA adapter |
| 01:27.35 | DocScrutinizer | http://paste.debian.net/150120/ |
| 01:30.00 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: some guy here is saying if one contacts him, he has a 3d driver.... http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Fujitsu_Siemens_Esprimo_Mobile_V5535 |
| 01:30.01 | DocScrutinizer | monitor: width:1024, height:768 |
| 01:30.14 | DocScrutinizer | the display is *800 though |
| 01:30.33 | DocScrutinizer | and thus is interpolating every 15th line or sth |
| 01:31.03 | DocScrutinizer | pawky: wow |
| 01:31.15 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: Irony? |
| 01:31.36 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder if I should do some work to put a half-broken hw to final purpose |
| 01:31.46 | DocScrutinizer | no irony, just amazed |
| 01:32.57 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: the page might have old links... but it at least gives a hint someone somewhere, might have a solution to it all.. :-) |
| 01:33.12 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: its just a matter of getting old of that guy or the code.. |
| 01:34.20 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: but maybe you'r on your way to by a new machine anyway... then it might not be worth the hunt... if not for the thrill... |
| 01:35.21 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: in return, I will have to pester you a bit more regarding this openmode stuff... :-) |
| 01:35.49 | DocScrutinizer | you're more than welcome to do that |
| 01:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | though I'm not the ultimate expert on it |
| 01:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | as mentioned I just host this stuff for somebody else who wants to stay anonymous |
| 01:36.54 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: reading on that clod-7.de site, they are taling about booting into the openmode kernel to install the opensh deb... is this the same as the opensh kernel? (I know.. but you have been reading up a bit more than me :-) ) |
| 01:37.39 | DocScrutinizer | there's no opensh kernel |
| 01:37.41 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: and then return to closed mode, still having root. All I want to achieve at the moment is to be able to install what ever I want to install.. forever.. |
| 01:37.55 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: ok.. so its the deb they are talking about then... |
| 01:38.30 | DocScrutinizer | I thought I added a "THIS DOESN'T WORK!" at top of opensh page? |
| 01:38.31 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: aha... and that one doesn't really work as well as adverticed then. As you are back in restricted mode... |
| 01:38.52 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: yes..... you certainly did... but other said.... etc.. |
| 01:39.01 | pawky | s/other/others/ |
| 01:39.44 | DocScrutinizer | opensh does NOT work, installation of any pkg causes MALF when entering secure mode (aka using stock kernel) later on |
| 01:40.09 | DocScrutinizer | opensh would work if yu could get it installed |
| 01:40.59 | DocScrutinizer | but it won't install under secure mode, and it causes malf when installed under open mode, as soon as you revert back to secure mode |
| 01:41.34 | DocScrutinizer | you probably *could* install it when you got a hacked secure mode |
| 01:41.40 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: As you might understand.. now after nearly two monts of battering with Nokia to get a new phone and finally having it, im a bit hesitant to put in some other kernel screwing things up.. Then again, I value the freedom of being able to install what I want very highly. |
| 01:42.05 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: and there is no such thing as a hacked version yet, right? |
| 01:42.38 | DocScrutinizer | the unpatched kernel doesn't differ from stock kernel in any way, except for stock kernel has Nokia signature |
| 01:42.52 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: And people are heavily working on it I asume?... |
| 01:43.38 | pawky | DocScrutinizer:and it will boot as such everytime I boot the thingy... no need to press special buttons and what have you? |
| 01:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | no need to press special buttons, it just may display the warranty warning on each boot, or maybe not |
| 01:45.25 | DocScrutinizer | then boots up system into open mode |
| 01:45.50 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: sounds great!.... time to press enter ;-) |
| 01:45.58 | DocScrutinizer | NOLO detects that kernel has no (valid) signature and switches device to pen mode |
| 01:46.27 | DocScrutinizer | later on aegis will notice that the hardware is in open mode and will somewhat reduce his nastiness |
| 01:46.30 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: fair enough :-) |
| 01:46.54 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: somewhat?... i want it gone!... gone forever... nada enchiladas... muerto... |
| 01:47.02 | pawky | :-) |
| 01:47.53 | DocScrutinizer | I told you aegis is implemented on a number of places in kernel, filesystems, initscripts and so on. It's a LOT of work to clean aegis out of harmattan |
| 01:47.58 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: I haven't paid for it in the first place!.... well.. as a matter fo fact I have... but anyway... its just as evil as... hmm... Android.. |
| 01:48.21 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: I really hope someone is working on getting it out of there :-) |
| 01:48.33 | DocScrutinizer | mer is what you want then |
| 01:48.40 | pawky | DocScrutinizer:ahh.. thats the name :-D |
| 01:49.17 | DocScrutinizer | as a number of apps (like conversations for example) won't work on a completely aegis-free system, it depends on aegisfs AIUI |
| 01:49.33 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: Usually i don't chicken out that much.. I am very trigger happy.. press enter first, read later... but this time when finally... having a phone that actually works... ;-) |
| 01:50.20 | DocScrutinizer | well, just make sure you got a proven to work way to reflash stock PR1.1 |
| 01:50.25 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: it wont work?.. i am all ears... i assume AIUI can be replaced.. as far as I know it doesn't exist on the N900 right? |
| 01:50.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~aiui |
| 01:50.43 | infobot | well, aiui is As I Understand It |
| 01:51.06 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: yeah.. I got the stock earlier from here.. thats how the dispute with mr... dj... started |
| 01:51.28 | DocScrutinizer | conversations app is rather different on HARM than on fremantle |
| 01:51.31 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: oh my god........ didn't see that one coming ;-) |
| 01:52.24 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: in what way?.... something talking.. TCP/IP i presume.. |
| 01:53.10 | DocScrutinizer | SMS are stored in a different way, that is based on aegis-filesystem, on HARM |
| 01:53.31 | DocScrutinizer | that'S why you probably will lose all your text msgs when switching to open mode |
| 01:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | contacts probably all the same |
| 01:54.02 | DocScrutinizer | accounts for sure too |
| 01:55.19 | DocScrutinizer | pawky: http://paste.debian.net/150121/ |
| 01:58.24 | pawky | right.. :-) |
| 02:00.57 | *** part/#harmattan zk8 (~tester@p54B908A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:02.21 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: thus as far as i got it, will i ever want to use any alternative repository besides their market, Aegis has to go... |
| 02:06.29 | pawky | Why can hardware manufacturers never advertice the limitations on their devices giving you the opportunity of choice BEFORE one buys their product?... grrr... |
| 02:22.40 | *** join/#harmattan marsje (~anonymous@marcelvb-1-pt.tunnel.tserv11.ams1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 02:26.11 | *** part/#harmattan pawky (~pawky@c80-217-75-20.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 02:26.25 | *** join/#harmattan pawky (~pawky@c80-217-75-20.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 02:49.00 | pawky | This is odd.. Shouldn't flasher find the phone when you plug it in and its off? |
| 02:55.42 | ieatlint | yes, but it takes a little bit for the phone to boot into the setup mode |
| 02:55.52 | ieatlint | also, before you plug the phone in, the flasher should be looking for it |
| 02:56.37 | pawky | did that... no effect. Moved the phone to different slots, and no effect. Worked well with my old buggy phone, but not my new one... |
| 02:57.03 | pawky | But do i get it right I must flash the firmware as well when wanting to change the kernel to openmode? |
| 02:57.10 | ieatlint | and the flasher never says anything at all? |
| 02:57.19 | pawky | nope.. just waiting.. |
| 02:57.29 | pawky | it is a bit odd to the least.. |
| 02:58.14 | ieatlint | can the phone boot? |
| 02:58.17 | pawky | i can see the unit with lsusb when turned on.. and the port works fine when plugging anything else into them.. |
| 02:58.21 | pawky | yes, phone boots fine.. |
| 02:58.28 | ieatlint | because you can also do it with the phone on, if you select "sync" mode when the phone is plugged in |
| 02:58.50 | pawky | flasher version 3.12 |
| 02:58.57 | pawky | flasher version 3.12.1 |
| 02:59.31 | pawky | tried --query-rd-mode, but to no avail.. |
| 03:00.22 | pawky | ahh.. now that last command succeeded :-) |
| 03:02.20 | pawky | does anyone know If I can only replace the kernel with flasher or do I have to reflash it all? |
| 03:03.06 | pawky | well.. that answer provided itself when trying ;-) |
| 03:12.05 | pawky | oh.. didn't know about that sync mode.. :-) |
| 03:20.40 | ieatlint | you can flash just the kernel, yes, but i don't remember the command off hand |
| 03:21.08 | ieatlint | the help command might be useful |
| 03:32.30 | pawky | ieatlint: I did check the help command.. .not much there... |
| 03:34.03 | pawky | ieatlint: im trying to find the DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4.339.2_PR_339(.bin?) file somewhere on the net for download without success |
| 03:34.36 | pawky | ieatlint: (i am only running linux, thus no navifirm) |
| 03:58.28 | *** join/#harmattan Hq` (hqh@unlink.org) |
| 04:42.10 | *** join/#harmattan marsje (~anonymous@marcelvb-1-pt.tunnel.tserv11.ams1.ipv6.he.net) |
| 04:54.40 | *** join/#harmattan fignew` (~woowoo@user-1121aab.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 05:35.17 | DocScrutinizer | there'll be only one location to find it: nokia's fileserver |
| 05:56.51 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer2 (~halley@p5493ACD8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:56.56 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer2 (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 06:27.29 | *** join/#harmattan Sazpaimon (~wat@c-68-32-58-174.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 06:41.52 | ieatlint | as i recall, there's a way to flash just the kernel from a fiasco image |
| 06:41.58 | ieatlint | but i haven't done it in a while |
| 07:40.28 | *** join/#harmattan luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 08:06.58 | *** join/#harmattan Sazpaimon (~wat@c-68-32-58-174.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 08:45.34 | *** join/#harmattan l32606 (~l3606@111.161.72.9) |
| 08:58.23 | l32606 | hi guys, how can i change the MNotification disappear-time? Is there the API? |
| 09:01.55 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 09:10.36 | merlin1991 | --flash-only ? at least that was it on the n900 flasher |
| 09:15.25 | *** join/#harmattan tulliovic (5b402c4b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.64.44.75) |
| 09:17.01 | tulliovic | hey guys. i tried to install kontact touch on my n9, but it didn't work. the howto says to download it directly and install it via dpkg: http://userbase.kde.org/Kontact_Touch/Harmattan but the link doesn't work anylonger. http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/g/gmp/ am i right in this channel? |
| 09:18.23 | Kaadlajk | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/g/gmp/ |
| 09:18.56 | tulliovic | ah thank you :-) |
| 09:21.12 | *** join/#harmattan Pali (~quassel@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 09:28.37 | *** join/#harmattan stroughtonsmith (~steven@86-44-94-8-dynamic.b-ras2.bbh.dublin.eircom.net) |
| 10:00.17 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@f053145080.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:05.09 | *** join/#harmattan M4rtinK (~M4rtinK@mail.melf.eu) |
| 10:07.26 | *** join/#harmattan Stecchino (~bart@amarok/developer/Stecchino) |
| 10:29.18 | *** join/#harmattan ejasmudar (ejasmudar@111.92.74.249) |
| 10:32.50 | ejasmudar | can we change the refresh rate of the events window? |
| 10:33.46 | Elleo | ejasmudar: settings -> applications -> feeds -> auto-update interval |
| 10:34.37 | Elleo | that might just be the rss feeds in the events stream though |
| 10:34.49 | Elleo | also #n9 might be a better place for that sort of question |
| 10:34.50 | ejasmudar | Thanks. WIll the battery consumption be very high for 30 minute |
| 10:34.59 | ejasmudar | Oh, there is an #N9? |
| 10:35.04 | ejasmudar | Thanks for the info |
| 10:35.13 | Elleo | yeah, #harmattan is mostly dev stuff |
| 10:35.40 | ejasmudar | regd developement |
| 10:36.06 | ejasmudar | is it required to setup scratchbox in windows? |
| 10:36.12 | ejasmudar | (i'm running windows) |
| 10:36.20 | ejasmudar | or is just qtcreator enough? |
| 10:36.53 | Elleo | I wouldn't have thought scratchbox would work at all under windows |
| 10:37.17 | ejasmudar | hmmm so how can we go about developing in windows? |
| 10:37.23 | Elleo | I think you should be able to setup qtcreator and qemu for emulation under windows though, dunno for sure though |
| 10:37.29 | Elleo | I'd suggest reading the dev docs |
| 10:38.03 | ejasmudar | yeah sure |
| 10:38.04 | ejasmudar | thanks |
| 10:38.10 | Elleo | ejasmudar: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Developer_Library.html |
| 10:38.55 | *** join/#harmattan diverse_izzue (~hunzikea@153-121.cable.senselan.ch) |
| 10:39.09 | Richlv | woders whether votes in harmattan bugzilla affect anything, because they allow 10000 votes :) |
| 10:54.58 | *** join/#harmattan diverse_izzue (~hunzikea@153-121.cable.senselan.ch) |
| 11:01.49 | *** join/#harmattan zk8 (~tester@p54B909A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:46.04 | *** join/#harmattan Pali (~quassel@ip-88-212-34-237.antik.sk) |
| 11:46.04 | *** join/#harmattan Pali (~quassel@unaffiliated/pali) |
| 12:14.49 | RST38h | moos at themoon |
| 12:21.54 | *** join/#harmattan BrettQ (~BrettQ@99-38-191-36.lightspeed.clmasc.sbcglobal.net) |
| 12:25.21 | *** join/#harmattan SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 12:25.29 | *** join/#harmattan techwa (techwa@111.92.69.13) |
| 12:25.49 | techwa | hi, |
| 12:26.12 | techwa | in harm, conversations are stored in tracker, right? |
| 12:27.04 | techwa | is there anyway we can edit it? |
| 12:43.29 | *** join/#harmattan arcean (~Arcean@aadd175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 12:58.50 | *** join/#harmattan jabis_ (~jabis@beta.pumppumedia.com) |
| 13:28.05 | merlin1991 | techwa: I don't think tracker has integrity checks and it only some sort of db |
| 13:28.08 | merlin1991 | so I guess yes |
| 13:28.19 | merlin1991 | techwa: tracker source should be avaiable |
| 14:10.06 | *** join/#harmattan Nixi (~ircchatte@aenm121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 14:31.38 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 15:00.39 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, but a major PITA |
| 15:01.01 | DocScrutinizer | what is it you want to edit? |
| 15:02.05 | DocScrutinizer | tracker is using some sort of plugins/conduits to extract the info bits from raw scanned data files, you can configure and augment these |
| 15:03.10 | DocScrutinizer | but obviously it's rather useless to edit something in a database that gets checked and updated to the 'real' data at arbitrary point in time rather soonish |
| 15:04.52 | DocScrutinizer | you'll never know when your edit "s/simon&garfunkel/Simon and Garfunkel/" will vanish and get restored to original info bit from media files that tracker scans frequently |
| 15:05.46 | DocScrutinizer | so since you can'T tell how long your edit stays stable, you as well can forget about it all together, and find a better method to achieve what you plan to do |
| 15:10.28 | *** join/#harmattan ZogG_laptop (~ZogG_lapt@109.64.202.139) |
| 15:10.59 | DocScrutinizer | tracker originally has a concept similar to spotlight and other well known local system wide indexer services - you could think of it as "the google search on your local machine". Alas Nokia decided to abuse it for an alternative filesystem directory, ignoring the real life fact that nobody is using google to skip from one page to the next of same site, once he found the relevant URL of the whole site via google. Nokia apps completely |
| 15:11.01 | DocScrutinizer | ignore locality and local relation of e.g songs of one album gathered in one directory |
| 15:13.56 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's almost impossible to find out about the true filename of a song playing in mediaplayer, and all sorting of your nediadata in a classical way using file and directory hierarchy is pointless as tracker will happily ignore it |
| 15:16.34 | merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: he talked about conversations though |
| 15:16.39 | merlin1991 | which are stored in tracker one way |
| 15:16.42 | merlin1991 | raw data is lost |
| 15:17.46 | DocScrutinizer | simple example: I'm using the camera to shoot holiday family shots and store it to device. Now I have photos done in my company's lab by a video microscope and I need those when I travel to a customer, I move them to a special folder on same device. On galery now all are mixed up and no way to stop my customer see my holiday shots, and my friends see secret business stuff while watching my holiday shots :-(((( |
| 15:18.00 | DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: indeed, next step to complete perversion |
| 15:19.22 | DocScrutinizer | this smell so extremely like sh...., err university BS not backed up by real life experience from some decades of IT. It makes me shudder |
| 15:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | "hey forget about fs directory hierarchy concept, it's old it's obsolete. We invent something way better in 18 months. Really amazing none of our 1000s of predecessor IT experts had that idea before..." OMFG |
| 15:22.46 | DocScrutinizer | s/experts/expert colleagues/ |
| 15:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | during the last ~40 years XP |
| 15:23.18 | DocScrutinizer | hybris par excellence |
| 15:24.03 | DocScrutinizer | invented by apple who failed epically with the concept, so Nokia thought they know how to do it *right* |
| 15:25.20 | *** join/#harmattan heymaster (~heymaster@78.61.212.188) |
| 15:28.26 | DocScrutinizer | >> [DocScrutinizer] an implementation and architecture like done by an alcoholic, based on a concept specified by a kid with only Tom&Jerry education<< http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-12-06.log.html#t2011-12-06T22:49:13 |
| 15:30.46 | DocScrutinizer | >> [Venemo] who the hell stores the contacts in the same place as the album arts?<< |
| 15:32.44 | DocScrutinizer | listen Nokia: if you're going to reinvent the filesystem directory hierarchy concept, you have the damn obligation to ALSO RE-IMPLEMENT *all* the filesystem related tools from unix toolbox, like ls, mv, rm, cat, you name it |
| 15:33.43 | DocScrutinizer | where T F is tracker-rm, tracker-mv, tracker-cp, tracker-grep, tracker-vi etc etc pp??? |
| 15:34.31 | DocScrutinizer | tracker knows just ONE thing: the analog to find(1) |
| 15:35.04 | DocScrutinizer | and even that is missing a function toolbix find delivers via -exec parameter |
| 15:35.14 | DocScrutinizer | toolbox* |
| 15:36.42 | Venemo | hey DocScrutinizer :) |
| 15:36.48 | DocScrutinizer | hey Venemo |
| 15:37.09 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, are you interested in betatesting Puzzle Master v2 on your N9(50)? |
| 15:38.52 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, not that much, as I rarely touch any of those devices, they are tethered to my laptop via ssh 24/7 and sit there on my desk collecting dust physically while I exclusively use shell to do "things" on them |
| 15:39.23 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 15:39.39 | DocScrutinizer | I hate that capacitive touchscreen, the vkbd, and whatnot else |
| 15:40.42 | DocScrutinizer | and I clearly stated that before and even while Konttori convinced me to apply for 950 |
| 15:42.17 | DocScrutinizer | I'm only interested in the raw system incl hw, not in the device as such, and my efforts regarding hostmode are 100% altruistic, as I never will want to use it for myself |
| 15:49.23 | DocScrutinizer | I just learnt I'm now one of the guys that bring to you the next generation Lumia chipset :-D Nova Thor ->http://www.netzwelt.de/news/89305-nokia-dual-core-windows-phones-arbeit.html |
| 15:50.19 | DocScrutinizer | which doesn't mean my (private) interest in Lumia was any higher than in N9/HARM |
| 15:54.12 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (3ea5ea56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.165.234.86) |
| 15:58.07 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.zdnet.de/news/41557685/nokia-bestellt-chips-fuer-windows-smartphones-bei-st-ericsson.htm |
| 16:04.43 | luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: you must be the only one not interested in Maemo to get a N950 :P |
| 16:05.10 | DocScrutinizer | seems about right |
| 16:07.21 | DocScrutinizer | don't get me wrong, I'm always interested in investigating hw properties of new stuff - but that's completely unrelated to N950. And when I applied for 950 I had no idea how bad HARM actually differs from fremantle, or from a true linux in that regard |
| 16:08.42 | DocScrutinizer | actually I'm undecided if I'm any more interested in hooker800 than in N950, other way round, or if simply the interest for both is exactly 0.00 from a "use it for a daily phone, or develop on it" perspective |
| 16:17.11 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@dslb-092-074-244-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:22.40 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, all right, sorry for bothering you :) |
| 16:23.18 | DocScrutinizer | np Venemo - sorry for not feeling like helping on that with joy. If you ask me to test it I will do it nevertheless |
| 16:24.02 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, naw, I've already have a couple of testers, I just recalled that you liked the old version on the N900. |
| 16:27.45 | Venemo | well, Lumia 800 is not bad at all. I know most Linux fans here will kill me for saying this, but I kinda like WP7 too. |
| 16:36.52 | DocScrutinizer | the WP7 GUI, apart from all crippledness regarding paradigm and configurability, is pretty swift and better than anything I found on any linuxy phone yet |
| 16:37.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe also due to the 1.4GHz CPU in hooker |
| 16:37.58 | DocScrutinizer | maybe due to lower screen res, NFI what they actually use |
| 16:38.40 | frals | probably also due to lack of multitasking |
| 16:39.02 | frals | ie not in foreground and not ms approved to run in bg? -> you dont get cpu |
| 16:41.51 | Venemo | indeed. |
| 16:42.33 | Venemo | it's very primitive, but in the good sense. I've never needed to think where I need to click to find what I want |
| 16:42.44 | Venemo | I also like the way I can change the colors in its theme. |
| 16:43.29 | Venemo | frals, I'm not exactly sure how they achieve the "feeling" of multitasking though. |
| 16:43.51 | Venemo | frals, ie. what happens to the process when it's sent to the background |
| 16:52.47 | *** join/#harmattan norayr (~noch@46.162.228.75) |
| 16:53.36 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I wondered several times where to click to get what I want :-D Each time I finally failed to find it... It's just not there |
| 16:54.34 | DocScrutinizer | I'm basically missing any status menu |
| 16:55.21 | DocScrutinizer | and long tap to "<-" button was sth that took me a while to find out |
| 17:02.05 | arnet | I think people here aware about maemo devices, so, I would like to discuss which is better, no get N9 or N900. |
| 17:02.17 | arnet | Actually I prefer N950 as it has keyboard |
| 17:02.24 | arnet | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.38 | arnet | My purpose is non commercial development and tinkering with device for fun. |
| 17:02.49 | arnet | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.57 | arnet | On the other hand I can develop for harmattan and test on device if I get N9 |
| 17:03.04 | arnet | But this N9 is too slim for me. I'd prefer possibility to change the battery and sd card slot |
| 17:03.17 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, well, I've had some experience with the WP7 emulator (as I'm a .NET dev), so I knew about long-press "<-", but yeah, it's non-discoverable otherwise. |
| 17:05.16 | arnet | Also, as far as I know, I need to get a firmware with navistore, in order to reflash a device if I brick it. I bricked my n900 many times during experiments. I had known that I always can reflash it. Now its harder. |
| 17:06.31 | arnet | Then, afaik there are no fcamera ports for harmattan, I use fcamera almost every day. |
| 17:07.47 | Venemo | arnet, methinks you've pretty much convinced yourself |
| 17:12.10 | Venemo | anyway, I need to leave, so good night everyone :) |
| 17:26.06 | *** join/#harmattan Scifig (~Scifig@c-24-4-32-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:28.13 | Scifig | Good Morning |
| 17:28.49 | Scifig | Does any one know where are the contact avatars stored in harmattan? |
| 17:29.47 | GeneralAntilles | Egads the Lumia 800 screen looks like shit. |
| 17:29.58 | GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure who thinks PenTile is an acceptable compromise |
| 17:30.07 | GeneralAntilles | But that person should go play somewhere else. |
| 17:31.26 | Scifig | GeneralAntilles, I can adjust to the tiles concept but can't tolerate so much of screen space being wasted |
| 17:31.49 | GeneralAntilles | AMOLED sucks. |
| 17:32.22 | Scifig | hopes Nokia will announce the existence and future of so-called Meltemi at CES 2012 |
| 17:35.31 | arnet | GeneralAntilles: as I am in process of making decision about bying N900 ar N9 please tell me more about amoled |
| 17:36.58 | arnet | and why it sucks |
| 17:38.25 | arnet | Today I compared my N900 screen to the N9 screen, and colors and brightness on N9 was way too impressive |
| 17:39.03 | arnet | On the other hand I dont get a device only because af the impressiveness |
| 17:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | arnet: livetime of AMOLED still under evaluation |
| 17:40.31 | DocScrutinizer | burn-in is a known problem, that's why the standby-screen clock on N9 jumps all the time |
| 17:41.26 | DocScrutinizer | in bright sunlight AMOLED still barely readable, while N900 at least gives you a semi-monochrome "passive" transflexive display |
| 17:43.00 | DocScrutinizer | on the bright side lighting up a few pixels on OLED is rather power economic so you *can* do such things like standby-screen clock at all, while LCD backlight would eat way too much no matter what's the display content |
| 17:43.22 | arnet | հմ |
| 17:43.32 | arnet | hmmm |
| 17:48.41 | RST38h | merry christmas, etc |
| 17:49.13 | RST38h | Doc: Nokia's LCD standby clocks also jump |
| 18:11.57 | GeneralAntilles | AMOLED's big problem is that it has half the resolution with the stupid PenTile shit. |
| 18:12.01 | GeneralAntilles | arnet, just get the N9. |
| 18:12.03 | GeneralAntilles | You'll be happier. |
| 18:12.34 | *** join/#harmattan lbt_ (~david@78.32.229.233) |
| 18:12.34 | *** join/#harmattan lbt_ (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 18:18.27 | GeneralAntilles | Well, it's official WP7's IE is a better browser than Harmattan's WebKit shit. |
| 18:22.01 | ZogG_laptop | ms is tha best |
| 18:24.56 | ZogG_laptop | damn i can't continue to develop my app till pr1.2 coz Nokian's politic are not the smartest thing |
| 18:26.46 | cos^ | anyone else have problems with setting up mms on N9(50)? |
| 18:29.25 | ZogG_laptop | what do you mean by setting? it works outofthebox |
| 18:31.56 | *** join/#harmattan arcean_ (~Arcean@aacu8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 18:33.03 | *** join/#harmattan smokex|away (~smokex@208.43.241.48) |
| 18:42.29 | arnet | GeneralAntilles: hmmm. I personally dont care about screen that much. I explained I need something to tinker with. I can run Nemo on n900. |
| 18:42.49 | arnet | But Nemo has small amount of users |
| 18:43.51 | *** join/#harmattan tulli (~tulli@91-64-44-75-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 18:43.56 | arnet | I may write and test something on N9 for N9 users. On the other hand as I can see from the apps.formeego.org there are no communnity. |
| 18:44.06 | DocScrutinizer | arnet: you won't tinker much with HARM, thanks aegis |
| 18:44.42 | arnet | Yes, and I aslo wonted to talk about drm |
| 18:44.47 | arnet | wanted |
| 18:45.07 | arnet | As far as I understood I can disable it |
| 18:45.29 | tulli | Does anyone know how I can change the MAC address on an N9 with developer mode enabled? |
| 18:45.30 | arnet | but then propriatary nokia staff like maps won't work |
| 18:45.56 | tulli | `ip link set wlan0 down` gives `Operation not permitted`. |
| 18:46.07 | arnet | I use Mappero (OPSM) so I dont need nokia maps anyway |
| 18:48.09 | *** join/#harmattan beford (~fercho@unaffiliated/beford) |
| 18:59.15 | arnet | DocScrutinizer: I can disable drm and also I can reflash the N9 if I brick it right? |
| 19:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | arnet: well, both answers should be "yes". Though we're in the beginning of investigating all that |
| 19:21.29 | DocScrutinizer | and also there's not exactly any DRM, but rather a security framework protecting system integrity, while DRM would be about multimedia content etc |
| 19:21.46 | arnet | ok |
| 19:24.14 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. you can't playback DRM-protected media on HARM, and you can obviously transfer any media content from N9 to other devices. What you can't do is messing with initscripts, backup and restore any user data like contacts, msgs etc, install own programs that would need to do any of those (the tokens only available to Nokia) |
| 19:24.46 | DocScrutinizer | etc |
| 19:25.00 | arnet | the same is on n950? |
| 19:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro has set up a wiki page "what aegis policies forbid" or sth like that |
| 19:25.29 | DocScrutinizer | yes, same on 950 |
| 19:25.34 | arnet | and there are no official way to change it? |
| 19:25.38 | arnet | is |
| 19:26.48 | DocScrutinizer | the "official way" is using openmode kernel, which basically is just a stock kernel missing Nokia signature, so bootloader will switch hw to openmode state, and aegis should detect this and stop throwing sticks at your legs |
| 19:27.41 | DocScrutinizer | but as mentioned above, we are in initial phase of investigating all this |
| 19:28.11 | DocScrutinizer | there's no mature tested way to get openmode yet |
| 19:29.02 | DocScrutinizer | even reflashing of the device with stock firmware seems rather experimental yet - no official advice from Nokia how to do it |
| 19:30.05 | arnet | ok, thanks :) |
| 19:30.13 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 19:31.14 | DocScrutinizer | (last comment applies to N9 only, for N950 Nokia advised developers how to reflash with latest firmware) |
| 19:36.25 | arnet | I've read smth about downloading the firmware with navistore |
| 19:36.51 | arnet | but at least I have to find someone with windows to dowsload it once |
| 19:47.51 | npm | GeneralAntilles: the pentile lumia 800 display is a mixed bag... however it makes videos look really nice... and combined w/ silverlight and drm necessitated for distributing tv/movie content, i can now watch movies on this device that i could formerly not watch, given that i have no windows boxes that run silverlight... |
| 19:49.02 | npm | and i have best of both worlds... nice big n950 lcd, and lumia 800's amoled... |
| 19:49.25 | npm | and i no longer risk my n950's delicate display as a daily use phone |
| 19:49.49 | npm | and don't need to carry it around in a huge sunglasses case to protect it from fumbles when walking around |
| 19:50.42 | npm | now if someone would just get Qt and QtMobility up on this phone, i can start developing apps. |
| 19:54.09 | npm | in the future, i'm hoping nokia will be sending us meltemi devices to celebrate may-day :-) |
| 20:03.14 | *** join/#harmattan tulli (~tulli@91-64-44-75-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:41.45 | *** part/#harmattan RzR (~rzr@rzr.ww7.be) |
| 20:41.55 | *** join/#harmattan RzR (~rzr@rzr.ww7.be) |
| 21:31.51 | beford | hey, is there any kind of guide to port a Qt app to QML/harmattan? |
| 21:34.44 | *** join/#harmattan luke-jr (~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49) |
| 21:39.03 | *** join/#harmattan zk8 (~tester@p4FF479C9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:04.46 | rcg | beford: http://wiki.meego.com/Porting_Fremantle_Applications_to_Harmattan |
| 22:04.56 | rcg | you might give that one a try |
| 22:09.52 | beford | thanks going to check it rcg |
| 23:05.55 | *** join/#harmattan macmaN (~chezburge@138.167.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 23:05.58 | *** join/#harmattan ajalkane (~ajalkane@a88-115-212-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 23:17.26 | *** join/#harmattan macmaN (~chezburge@138.167.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 23:26.13 | ajalkane | So Lumia 800 probably arriving tuesday. Is there any chance of hacking Mer to it? |
| 23:26.54 | dm8tbr | no |
| 23:27.00 | ajalkane | I mean, I do intend to use it as my main phone for 2 weeks to get some idea what's WP's at. |
| 23:27.05 | ajalkane | Ah too bad |
| 23:27.25 | dm8tbr | it's completely different hardware, and there are no drivers and it's most likely HS with locked down silicon |
| 23:28.00 | ajalkane | Yeah. Well, no big surprise. Would have been nice... |
| 23:31.15 | RzR | will all n950club get a fake e9 ? |
| 23:31.48 | ajalkane | RzR: seems so |
| 23:32.28 | RzR | well i can infirm this |
| 23:32.36 | ajalkane | But I have to say it's a really nice gift from Nokia. While I'm not into WP and this whole strategy, I do appreciate it. |
| 23:33.05 | RzR | what is the process you can a mail and then you purchase it ? |
| 23:33.23 | ajalkane | RzR: yeah you order it pretty much like you did with N950 |
| 23:33.44 | RzR | but they need to get your lp id by email 1st ? |
| 23:33.55 | RzR | I might have lost that email |
| 23:34.11 | RzR | well i could live w/out |
| 23:34.34 | ajalkane | RzR: Yeah, at least for me they send an e-mail and I could only get it by following that e-mail |
| 23:35.19 | ajalkane | RzR: But yeah, I'm not "tingling with excitement" like I was with N950. It's just, it arrives when it arrives. Instead of clicking frantically on the delivery status to see where N950 is travelling. |
| 23:36.00 | ajalkane | I know I won't be developing for WP, but I'm willing to check what it's about as a user. |
| 23:37.09 | RzR | lets hope it will boot linux someday :) |
| 23:38.29 | ajalkane | RzR: yeah, for this christmas holidays, that's something to pray baby jesus for. Otherwise, I may use it as a phone when I go to cottage or some other accident-prone locations |
| 23:38.35 | RzR | when did you get that email ? |
| 23:38.50 | ajalkane | I got it last week. I think wednesday |
| 23:39.23 | ajalkane | And I know many other people got theirs the week before. So it seems also to be somewhat regional. |
| 23:39.33 | RzR | yes |
| 23:39.39 | RzR | you |
| 23:39.41 | RzR | you |
| 23:39.47 | RzR | are you in europe ? |
| 23:39.53 | ajalkane | I'm in Finland |
| 23:40.05 | RzR | ok they closer to nok |
| 23:40.07 | RzR | then |
| 23:40.22 | ajalkane | Hmm... I got it pretty fast after I wanted replacement N950. Dunno if it's correlated. |
| 23:40.28 | RzR | when i start mistyping this means its time to sleep :) |
| 23:40.36 | ajalkane | hehe |
| 23:40.47 | RzR | what happend to you n950 ? |
| 23:41.00 | ajalkane | RzR: a mass of dead pixels in the bottom |
| 23:41.34 | RzR | mine is ok and i dropped it twice |
| 23:41.38 | ajalkane | I wonder how many spare N950s they have |
| 23:41.50 | RzR | zillions |
| 23:42.08 | ajalkane | RzR: yeah I've treated it goldly. I don't know if it's the dropping temperatures in Finland or what caused it. |
| 23:42.14 | ajalkane | Just glad they gave me another one. |
| 23:42.38 | RzR | this is nice yes |
| 23:42.55 | *** join/#harmattan macmaN (~chezburge@138.167.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee) |
| 23:43.23 | ajalkane | yes, say what you (and I) will about the current direction, there's some good people there. |
| 23:44.05 | RzR | well i donno i have mixed feelings |
| 23:44.10 | RzR | the device is so brillant |
| 23:44.17 | RzR | and the community so weak |
| 23:44.36 | RzR | this is not the expected story |
| 23:44.55 | RzR | i was ready to wait maybe 10 years to get a n950 |
| 23:45.03 | ajalkane | maybe it just needs time. I don't know how much the N9 has sold, but I gather it's sold pretty well. |
| 23:45.09 | RzR | built on freesoftware |
| 23:45.15 | RzR | and now we got it |
| 23:45.56 | ajalkane | great device. The first one I've been excited about since N95. |
| 23:45.59 | RzR | and the probablity to get an other linux phone soon is very low |
| 23:46.17 | RzR | so this is unclear |
| 23:46.34 | RzR | i donno if we should jump into the nemo project |
| 23:46.40 | ajalkane | Unfortunately. This is pretty much now or who knows when :(. And the latter seems more likely |
| 23:46.53 | ajalkane | There's no other viable project right now |
| 23:46.56 | RzR | or just try to help for support as for maemo |
| 23:47.16 | ajalkane | So at least I'm going to put my time for now into this and hope for the best |
| 23:47.37 | ajalkane | If it doesn't pan out, at least I've had fun, and I've learned new things. |
| 23:47.56 | RzR | today i feel i can help to make harmattan sw support as good as freemantle |
| 23:48.35 | RzR | yes there is no reason to switch to wp |
| 23:48.50 | ajalkane | that's good... N900 is still the gold-standard in many ways in community support |
| 23:49.41 | RzR | if only nokia sold n950 |
| 23:49.50 | ajalkane | Android is IMO the only viable alternative. It's the least worst of what's left if maemo is dropped for good |
| 23:50.03 | RzR | android is no altertive for me |
| 23:50.27 | RzR | i do some android devel some time to time |
| 23:51.01 | ajalkane | Nothing is alternative to me as a development platform right now. But if I were to buy a new phone, it would be android unless N9 gets a successor. Or Tizen becomes something. |
| 23:51.04 | RzR | and i dont think it will bring us more freedom |
| 23:51.39 | RzR | n9 is a decent platform if you can of what google can not bring |
| 23:51.44 | RzR | if you care |
| 23:52.14 | ajalkane | yeah Maemo stands alone at the moment as a semi-mainstream Linux distribution based OS. |
| 23:52.34 | RzR | hey openmoko |
| 23:52.43 | ajalkane | hehe... it's not even semi. |
| 23:52.54 | ajalkane | Though I appreciate the effort. Too bad it didn't take off. |
| 23:53.30 | RzR | it did not crash neither |
| 23:54.28 | ajalkane | Can't say I have experience. Although I tried following what's happening with it, nothing seemed like something I wanted to purchase. |
| 23:54.48 | RzR | i can understand |
| 23:58.23 | RzR | so what does nokia expect from you to do w/ lumia ? |
| 23:59.13 | ajalkane | RzR: as far as I could see, nothing. It's a gift. If they expected development work, I would have refused it. |
| 23:59.59 | RzR | i will ask them to trade it for a spare n950 :) |