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| 06:09.48 | iekku | huomenta |
| 06:09.50 | iekku | morning |
| 06:19.42 | dm8tbr | moaning |
| 06:34.03 | yipdw | heh, using a swipe-based interface with a mouse is pretty hard |
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| 07:07.33 | heeeegua__ | hi....guys...I'm just met an issue.. |
| 07:08.02 | heeeegua__ | when i tried to complie the C source...but |
| 07:08.18 | heeeegua__ | the harmattan cann't find the base include source. |
| 07:08.28 | heeeegua__ | anyone know why?! |
| 07:08.49 | heeeegua__ | I have searched the relevant source folder of toolchain.... |
| 07:09.28 | heeeegua__ | like this:D:\workspace\N9BarcodeDe\zxing\oned\Code128Reader.cpp:181: error: 'fmaxl' was not declared in this scope |
| 07:09.51 | heeeegua__ | fmaxl come from the math.h |
| 07:10.14 | heeeegua__ | that is a base include file of C in linux. |
| 07:10.30 | heeeegua__ | so why the harmattan cann't find it. |
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| 07:17.56 | djszapi_ | heeeegua__: make sure math.h is present... |
| 07:19.41 | djszapi_ | to be precise, make sure fmaxh is present.. |
| 07:20.04 | djszapi_ | it is not available here... |
| 07:20.33 | djszapi_ | not even on my host... |
| 07:26.15 | heeeegua__ | in this path D:\QtSDK\Madde\sysroots\harmattan_sysroot_10.2011.34-1_slim\usr\include |
| 07:26.15 | heeeegua__ | it can be found... |
| 07:26.15 | heeeegua__ | math.h |
| 07:26.16 | heeeegua__ | but... |
| 07:26.17 | heeeegua__ | it always print out -unix is deprecated. |
| 07:26.18 | heeeegua__ | -unix is deprecated. |
| 07:26.18 | heeeegua__ | each time when i qmake |
| 07:26.20 | heeeegua__ | so i think it has some relevant issue with it... |
| 07:26.22 | heeeegua__ | why i tried to qmake the project. the console give me the result with -unix is deprecated. |
| 07:26.23 | heeeegua__ | I want to known why it occurs. |
| 07:27.06 | djszapi_ | to be precise, make sure fmaxh is present.. |
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| 07:44.49 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer: |
| 07:44.49 | MohammadAG | ~israel-sucks |
| 07:44.49 | infobot | methinks israel-sucks is http://www.dhl.com/content/g0/en/express/tracking.shtml?brand=DHL&AWB=6936258346%0D%0A |
| 07:45.44 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: got the replacement N950 yet? |
| 07:46.11 | MohammadAG | I wouldnt be on coloquy if i did |
| 07:46.52 | hiemanshu | I see |
| 07:47.03 | hiemanshu | MohammadAG: what happened to the second one? stuck as well? |
| 07:47.19 | MohammadAG | Pretty much seems like it |
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| 10:12.43 | corecode | hi |
| 10:12.54 | corecode | where do i find the source for fenix? |
| 10:15.07 | djszapi_ | probably not open source ? |
| 10:15.33 | djszapi_ | try apt-get source fenix |
| 10:15.43 | djszapi_ | if it does not work, you are out of your luck |
| 10:19.51 | djszapi_ | X-Fade ping |
| 10:27.35 | djszapi_ | X-Fade https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=24313 |
| 10:27.42 | _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 24313 maj, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, Unresolvable package issue with available dependencies |
| 10:30.39 | *** join/#harmattan lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:32.33 | X-Fade | djszapi_: Hmm no, it seems I don't have the latest version imported. Need to do that. |
| 10:32.53 | djszapi_ | X-Fade you mean the latest repository ? |
| 10:33.04 | X-Fade | djszapi_: yeah |
| 10:33.05 | djszapi_ | X-Fade please do, it blocks at least 10-15 packages |
| 10:33.16 | djszapi_ | and of course the stuff depending on those |
| 10:38.15 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: Also https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=alure&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard even if "osc rebuild" gave "ok". |
| 10:40.05 | *** join/#harmattan heeeegua_ (~heeeegua@124.161.106.50) |
| 10:40.37 | X-Fade | djszapi_: One thing at a time :) |
| 10:41.05 | djszapi_ | yes, of course. |
| 10:57.49 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: btw, I rebuilt kdelibs at least ten times since October 22 and that is still the latest publishing date, why ? Although, I never bumped the version. |
| 10:58.06 | djszapi_ | I tried to bump the version for gluon in the same situation, but did not really get published yesterday either.. :/ |
| 10:58.21 | tabasko | hmm, which one is better Communi or SimpleIRC? |
| 10:58.44 | djszapi_ | none, irc-chatter |
| 10:58.45 | djszapi_ | :) |
| 10:58.52 | X-Fade | djszapi_: I'm blocking until I fixed your other problem, no use spewing multiple issues at me :) |
| 10:59.16 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: well, I just report them, and you work whenever you have the time... |
| 10:59.27 | djszapi_ | would be all kind of sad to swallow these issues without reporting.. |
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| 11:00.58 | tabasko | djszapi_: irc-chatter can be found from rzr repo? |
| 11:01.48 | djszapi_ | sure |
| 11:02.32 | djszapi_ | though, I would prefer writing an IRC accounts plugin based on telepathy |
| 11:02.55 | djszapi_ | will do it when I have time :) |
| 11:03.47 | tabasko | that would be neat |
| 11:04.15 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 11:04.20 | tabasko | with n9, using ssh+irssi is not so great |
| 11:05.14 | djszapi_ | agree |
| 11:11.54 | Jare_ | i have circumvented that by using a setup consisting of an xmpp server, irssi and a modified linkchan.pl irssi script |
| 11:12.10 | Jare_ | oh and plus bitlbee |
| 11:13.14 | djszapi_ | sounds rather hacky |
| 11:18.32 | Jare_ | the irssi channel linking script might be a bit hacky, but otherwise it isn't too complicated imo. And it provides an ability to store offline messages, so i'm able to see the backlogs also in the n9 chat |
| 11:19.14 | djszapi_ | it should be done nicely by a simple client |
| 11:20.26 | deram | irssi-proxy could be usable with n9 irc client... |
| 11:20.28 | Hq` | forgive me for advertising again, but ssh+irssi were the exact reason why I made http://hqh.unlink.org/harmattan ;) |
| 11:21.03 | deram | at least that used to work with my S40 qwerty-phone back when ssh was something impossible to use on phones |
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| 11:23.42 | djszapi_ | irssi is a wrong approach in my personal taste, and does not integrate well with the system |
| 11:24.59 | deram | djszapi_: it is the only approach giving you all chat history possible |
| 11:25.36 | djszapi_ | not really. |
| 11:25.38 | deram | irssi in proxy mode and native client contacting that would be the most integrated approach |
| 11:25.55 | djszapi_ | it it the false approach |
| 11:26.05 | deram | how is so? |
| 11:26.14 | djszapi_ | actually if you have an accounts plugin that I am planning to do based on telepathy as almost all the other accounts anyway |
| 11:26.25 | djszapi_ | you can just stay logged that way, and pick the messages /anytime/ from /any/ client |
| 11:26.44 | deram | you need to have some irc-client running all the time to get all messages someone is sending you, even when not actually online |
| 11:26.54 | djszapi_ | ofc course irssi will be plain wrong since you need to hack an irssi wrapper then |
| 11:27.06 | djszapi_ | yes, and I told what would run, please listen to me. |
| 11:27.14 | djszapi_ | course* |
| 11:27.25 | deram | irssi has proxy support, it pretends to be an irc server you connect |
| 11:27.36 | deram | ok. |
| 11:27.42 | djszapi_ | that does not really matter |
| 11:28.03 | djszapi_ | accounts plugin can also pick up stuff from the server anyway, once. |
| 11:28.06 | djszapi_ | and any clients can ask it |
| 11:28.14 | djszapi_ | and that is the way of integrating with the platform anyway |
| 11:29.23 | deram | what stuff you are talking about with picking up from server? |
| 11:29.42 | deram | IRC servers don't serve chat history |
| 11:29.44 | Jare_ | so are you going to implement a server application for that of what? |
| 11:30.01 | djszapi_ | sorry, I do not understand the questions |
| 11:30.14 | djszapi_ | how hard is it to type a server address where your super irc client is running ? |
| 11:30.23 | djszapi_ | line an input field, and get history checkbox ? |
| 11:30.28 | djszapi_ | I mean seriously, it is very simple. |
| 11:30.39 | djszapi_ | like* |
| 11:30.50 | djszapi_ | and not this hackish like above. |
| 11:31.04 | deram | I don't follow |
| 11:31.36 | djszapi_ | make the long story short: 1 lineedit + button/checkbox can get the history from the accounts plugin I am planning to write |
| 11:31.43 | djszapi_ | in comparison with all the hackery above. |
| 11:31.48 | deram | so youd have one irc client providing the chat history via some protocol and another running in N9 contacting real irc server? |
| 11:32.06 | w00t | it sounds like he expects the n9 to be permanently connected |
| 11:32.14 | djszapi_ | nope |
| 11:32.20 | djszapi_ | actually the whole point is the opposite |
| 11:32.26 | Jare_ | isn't that the same thing irssi proxy does then? |
| 11:32.29 | w00t | then what is writing the history? :) |
| 11:32.33 | djszapi_ | the accounts plugin would connect to your remote super irc client |
| 11:32.45 | djszapi_ | to fetch the hisitory |
| 11:32.47 | w00t | so what you're writing is basically quassel, and not irc as such, ok |
| 11:32.51 | deram | ok. and after that? |
| 11:32.52 | djszapi_ | history*, and then all the irc clients could get it |
| 11:33.14 | djszapi_ | no, it is not quassel |
| 11:33.19 | djszapi_ | quassel is not an account plugin. |
| 11:33.29 | djszapi_ | for Harmattan based on telepathy connection manager |
| 11:33.44 | deram | hmm.. so you are talking about having one superirc-server providing irc interface for all your irc clients? |
| 11:33.49 | w00t | no, but it is an irc core that serves history to remote clients :) |
| 11:34.03 | djszapi_ | w00t: sorry, but what is your point ? |
| 11:34.15 | djszapi_ | you need to get the history somehow anyway, if you do not wanna be online all the time. |
| 11:34.17 | w00t | that it already provides one piece you could reuse |
| 11:34.41 | djszapi_ | w00t: yes, of course if there is a lib for getting that, I will use it |
| 11:34.56 | djszapi_ | but that is not the main point, just implementation details. |
| 11:35.08 | djszapi_ | I was just presenting my idea about having a better integrated irc'ing option for Harmattan |
| 11:35.15 | djszapi_ | than the irssi hack above. |
| 11:35.35 | deram | so, in your approach there is one proxy server the irc accounts plugin would contact and ask for history |
| 11:36.03 | djszapi_ | if you wanna get remote history, without being online nonstop, you do not have other choice |
| 11:36.39 | deram | in my approach I'd use irssi as the server, as I use it already, and connect to that with that accounts plugin application if possible |
| 11:36.41 | djszapi_ | it is independent of my application |
| 11:37.01 | deram | but whatever floats anyones boat |
| 11:37.18 | djszapi_ | you can use anything for the server really. |
| 11:37.21 | Jare_ | yeah, well my hack was done in an hour, but i'll be glad to use your concept when you get it done...some day ;) |
| 11:37.33 | djszapi_ | but the point is that you do not need to have irssi client usage on your N9 |
| 11:37.50 | djszapi_ | you have all the fancy qt stuff this way |
| 11:38.06 | djszapi_ | and integrated with the platform, and you provide the same history for any irc apps, not just for yours |
| 11:38.08 | deram | of cource you don't... that was the beauty of this irssi-proxymode I proposed |
| 11:38.32 | deram | you just have one irc client which contact your irssi as it would contact any other irc server. |
| 11:39.33 | djszapi_ | the point is that it should be centralized |
| 11:39.38 | djszapi_ | and that is done by accounts plugin |
| 11:39.38 | deram | and there you have the history, and you have the same nick, not confusing anyone to write to your mobile nick when you are not connected mobile |
| 11:39.50 | djszapi_ | and you can then have y our irssi client on your N9, remote irc server and what not |
| 11:40.05 | djszapi_ | I can also have my local telepathy connection manager based client, irc-chatter, communi or what not |
| 11:40.06 | deram | yes.. I agree, IRC client should be centralised as accounts plugin and such |
| 11:40.41 | djszapi_ | I am now writing an Open Collaboration Services plugin so I am getting some experience with it |
| 11:40.47 | deram | that irc-chatter would be my best bet for the client I'd use to contacting my irssi-proxy.. |
| 11:40.52 | djszapi_ | I hope I can write an irssi plugin more simpler :) |
| 11:41.06 | djszapi_ | irc* |
| 11:41.40 | tabasko | hmm, tried to install tmux from rzr but get: |
| 11:41.41 | tabasko | install: can't change ownership of /var/run/tmux: Operation not permitted |
| 11:43.25 | djszapi_ | that is very simple to fix |
| 11:43.28 | tabasko | but irc-chatter did install fine :) |
| 11:43.48 | tabasko | djszapi_: change ownership manually? |
| 11:44.05 | tabasko | I should think before asking |
| 11:44.23 | djszapi_ | no |
| 11:45.54 | *** join/#harmattan tabasko-N9 (~ircchatte@83.145.236.157) |
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| 11:56.54 | djszapi_ | mmm, android seems to use softfp, not hardfp as Harmattan |
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| 12:10.21 | djszapi_ | radiofree: this is the closest page I have found: http://www.macrobug.com/blog/2007/11/25/using-scratchbox-to-build-complex-arm-binaries-for-android/ |
| 12:12.09 | X-Fade | djszapi_: Import of a few packages in b3 failed because of the control issue we looked at last time. Need to check now if I have the updated solver. |
| 12:12.57 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: well, you told me previously we already had and you grabbed the relevant system-services package from upstream |
| 12:13.41 | X-Fade | djszapi_: No I patched the package back then, while waiting for the patch to be integrated. |
| 12:14.17 | djszapi_ | yes, I know, but then the patch got accepted after my report, like in few mins |
| 12:14.23 | djszapi_ | and you even told the solver was published. |
| 12:14.36 | djszapi_ | I mean you were able to get the it with that patch |
| 12:14.47 | X-Fade | djszapi_: Yeah, so I wonder if it got in a build already. |
| 12:15.03 | X-Fade | djszapi_: As I run latest version there. |
| 12:15.17 | djszapi_ | then probably not for some reason. |
| 12:16.22 | X-Fade | Trying to find out where BSSolv is in the Tools/Unstable repo. |
| 12:18.58 | X-Fade | Hmm is from the 25th of Aug. |
| 12:20.21 | djszapi_ | no |
| 12:20.33 | djszapi_ | I mean the patch happened few weeks ago at leaset :) |
| 12:20.36 | djszapi_ | least, even :) |
| 12:20.49 | X-Fade | Yeah, but last package is from then. |
| 12:20.50 | lizardo | does anyone know why http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/k/kernel/ does not contain the kernel source currently shipped in latest N950 image ? |
| 12:21.03 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: so it is not involved ? |
| 12:21.21 | X-Fade | djszapi_: It is not published yet. |
| 12:21.30 | djszapi_ | meh |
| 12:21.39 | djszapi_ | what now ? |
| 12:21.50 | djszapi_ | because it really breaks 10-20 packages atm |
| 12:21.53 | X-Fade | Trying to find the commit to see if I can patch it myself. |
| 12:21.58 | djszapi_ | right |
| 12:22.02 | djszapi_ | commit is involvedi n the report |
| 12:22.25 | X-Fade | No, because that pointed to the wrong package. |
| 12:22.56 | djszapi_ | mmm, not really: https://github.com/openSUSE/sat-solver/issues/4#issuecomment-2759512 |
| 12:23.14 | djszapi_ | weird, he commits something, but does not provide url |
| 12:23.15 | X-Fade | Yeah, but satsolver != perl-BSSolv |
| 12:23.20 | X-Fade | yeah. |
| 12:23.22 | djszapi_ | sorry ? |
| 12:23.39 | djszapi_ | it is not just a problem for satsolver ? |
| 12:23.45 | X-Fade | It was reporeted in another repo that it got patched. |
| 12:23.50 | X-Fade | *than |
| 12:25.14 | djszapi_ | I am not following |
| 12:25.28 | djszapi_ | the guy made the patch in the wrong repository, or you gave me wrong reporting url ? |
| 12:25.48 | X-Fade | Well. The problem was in that package, but they decided to patch something else. |
| 12:26.22 | X-Fade | Read the history in your reported issue. |
| 12:27.00 | X-Fade | https://github.com/openSUSE/libsolv/commit/3200333bb99807b51e235c2c6a81335efe46e15f |
| 12:27.00 | djszapi_ | I am not following |
| 12:27.14 | djszapi_ | he patched libsolv, so ? |
| 12:27.23 | djszapi_ | if that is the new name of it, it is more than ok imho |
| 12:27.36 | X-Fade | Yeah, but it didn't get published yet. |
| 12:28.05 | djszapi_ | well, the old would be ? |
| 12:28.09 | djszapi_ | in my understand, not either |
| 12:28.18 | djszapi_ | so there is no problem apart from not published |
| 12:28.28 | djszapi_ | but I bet you can make this small patch against the currently released one |
| 12:28.36 | djszapi_ | you do not need to fetch that word by word |
| 12:28.48 | X-Fade | Problem is that it is a binary. |
| 12:29.05 | djszapi_ | cannot you build it ? |
| 12:30.52 | X-Fade | Not that easy. |
| 12:33.26 | djszapi_ | well, I am not sure what to say |
| 12:33.40 | djszapi_ | from user pov, we have broken packages. |
| 12:34.48 | djszapi_ | so any workarounds are welcome, whatever the simplest is :) |
| 12:35.19 | X-Fade | Yeah, trying to find out how to do that best. |
| 12:53.18 | *** join/#harmattan lizardo (~lizardo@189.2.128.130) |
| 12:55.37 | djszapi_ | lizardo: sorry, but what do you check ? The kernel source /is/ there. |
| 12:56.20 | djszapi_ | it does not boot after the compilation, or what is the precise question ? |
| 12:57.10 | Stskeeps | djszapi_: i have 20113701 on my n950 and 20112910's on there |
| 12:57.30 | Stskeeps | on beta3 |
| 12:57.36 | Stskeeps | so something does look od |
| 12:57.37 | Stskeeps | d |
| 12:57.44 | djszapi_ | 3701 ? :o |
| 12:58.15 | *** join/#harmattan jluisn (~quassel@187.115.172.24) |
| 12:58.32 | Stskeeps | yeah, PR1.1 for n950 |
| 12:59.53 | Stskeeps | djszapi_: what kernel version do you see on PR1.1 and on the harmattan-beta3 repo? |
| 12:59.54 | djszapi_ | well, there is for sure no N950 kernel source, but I would try apt-get source which probably gives this result after all. |
| 13:00.03 | djszapi_ | I mean no separated one published. |
| 13:02.07 | Stskeeps | odd |
| 13:03.01 | djszapi_ | we do not have different kernels for different devices |
| 13:03.09 | djszapi_ | with the same firmware, that is |
| 13:03.22 | djszapi_ | we basically have the same image for both, I have just checked. |
| 13:03.26 | Stskeeps | yes, i know |
| 13:03.39 | djszapi_ | so the source is available, that is the answer |
| 13:03.42 | Stskeeps | that's why i'm surprised to not found the source matching what i have on device, they're usually very precise with that |
| 13:03.53 | Stskeeps | except it's not.. i can't find 3701 online? |
| 13:03.54 | djszapi_ | about the version, I am not sure... |
| 13:03.57 | djszapi_ | why does it matter ? |
| 13:04.01 | djszapi_ | that is the main question |
| 13:04.49 | Stskeeps | it matters because i don't have the source code for a GPLv2 kernel :) |
| 13:05.11 | Corsac | aha, nicely named files: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/ |
| 13:05.24 | djszapi_ | right, so technically speaking, not law-wise ? |
| 13:05.30 | Stskeeps | djszapi_: law wise |
| 13:06.07 | djszapi_ | I cannot help with that, I am not a lawyer :) |
| 13:06.29 | Stskeeps | i'm not asking you to help, just saying that there is a problem when a kernel source isn't published but a binary is.. |
| 13:06.49 | MohammadAG | Sigh |
| 13:06.59 | Corsac | yeah, I noticed that when PR1.1 was released, someone suggested it was just a delay in the repository update |
| 13:07.16 | Corsac | but I intended to make a mail to the email address for gpl stuff |
| 13:07.43 | MohammadAG | Tweet @nokia, if their next reply isn't to you, sue |
| 13:08.06 | djszapi_ | I wish this was the biggest problem :) |
| 13:08.10 | Stskeeps | from Nokia POV, this is a problem: 4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except as expressly provided under this License. Any attempt otherwise to copy, modify, sublicense or distribute the Program is void, and will automatically terminate your rights under this License. However, parties who have received copies, or rights, from you under this License will not have their licenses terminated so long as ... |
| 13:08.16 | Stskeeps | ... such parties remain in full compliance |
| 13:08.18 | Stskeeps | simple as that |
| 13:08.20 | djszapi_ | and not that basic packages are missing, and technically break things :) |
| 13:08.29 | Corsac | I don't tweet, and since there's a mail address for that, using another channel might not be a good idea :) |
| 13:08.30 | Stskeeps | by not complying, their rights to the linux kernel terminates |
| 13:08.43 | Stskeeps | simple as that |
| 13:08.53 | Stskeeps | so that's why i think it's a bigger problem :) |
| 13:09.05 | djszapi_ | I do not personally care about their lawyer issues |
| 13:09.15 | djszapi_ | I only care as a third-party developer, if something is technically broken. |
| 13:09.21 | MohammadAG | You're missing the point |
| 13:09.25 | djszapi_ | I have better things to do than caring about the law and stuff |
| 13:09.32 | Stskeeps | ok, fine |
| 13:09.35 | Stskeeps | yawns |
| 13:09.46 | MohammadAG | follows Stskeeps |
| 13:10.23 | djszapi_ | If I had cared, I would have reported many people here speaking about security holes in public. |
| 13:11.00 | MohammadAG | Thats not a legal issue |
| 13:11.13 | djszapi_ | read your contract you signed for the N950 |
| 13:11.16 | MohammadAG | Again missing the piibt |
| 13:11.26 | Stskeeps | djszapi_: it lists about source code requests |
| 13:11.37 | MohammadAG | It says i was 18 when i signed |
| 13:11.40 | MohammadAG | I was 17 |
| 13:11.46 | djszapi_ | Stskeeps: what I do not understand, why you do not write to them, if it bugs you ? |
| 13:11.50 | Stskeeps | djszapi_: people have |
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| 13:13.16 | djszapi_ | right, so wait until they can fix it or report Nokia to I do not know whatever forum. |
| 13:13.22 | djszapi_ | where the legal issues are handled. |
| 13:13.56 | Stskeeps | so you're saying we can't discuss the ongoing process? |
| 13:14.07 | djszapi_ | probably, time-consuming, and useless, but that is what you can do apart from waiting.. |
| 13:14.46 | Stskeeps | anyway, it's not productive to discuss this with you anyway, as you say |
| 13:14.50 | Stskeeps | so back to hacking |
| 13:15.00 | djszapi_ | agree |
| 13:15.30 | djszapi_ | the legal authority is your best bet, not someone from here. |
| 13:17.15 | djszapi_ | actually, it is even a known bug internally. |
| 13:17.18 | Corsac | uh, nice, reboot on plug with sync & connect :/ |
| 13:17.57 | djszapi_ | Stskeeps: if you write to the lawyer, you will get it on DVD |
| 13:18.35 | djszapi_ | Stskeeps: and that is completely correct according to the gpl license |
| 13:18.41 | djszapi_ | so Nokia is actually not breaking anything |
| 13:18.58 | Stskeeps | sure, but noone is actually replying |
| 13:19.17 | djszapi_ | replying to what ? |
| 13:19.26 | djszapi_ | you wrote to the lawyer ? |
| 13:19.39 | Stskeeps | people doing the source code request address as stated in the PLA and in the device's license info |
| 13:20.32 | djszapi_ | Stskeeps: the not publishing is obviously not because of pissing off the open source warriors, there are reasons btw |
| 13:20.46 | djszapi_ | I do not think anybody needs to guess anything bad about Nokia regarding this |
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| 13:21.53 | djszapi_ | Until the OVI Store cannot realize whether a package will run on my device I will put it onto (mainly if I paid for that), we cannot update thee SDK since that. The sources go out with the SDK |
| 13:22.11 | Stskeeps | i don't know what the reasons are, but the situation is simple, if you've published the binary of a GPLv2 source code you must provide the source code somehow |
| 13:22.28 | Stskeeps | i don't care if it's on DVD, website or by pigeon |
| 13:22.43 | djszapi_ | sorry, but this is really lawy matter. |
| 13:23.00 | Stskeeps | also, why the fuck are you continuing to discuss when you're saying exactly that you don't want to talk about it? |
| 13:23.06 | djszapi_ | you need to address those people, and waiting for their reply. |
| 13:23.47 | djszapi_ | or the legal authority whatever it is, as I said earlier. |
| 13:24.07 | Corsac | nice, now taping on Phone (when in sync&connect, not sure it matters) crashes the system |
| 13:24.18 | djszapi_ | but you probably need to know the law better than the Nokia lawyers, otherwise you lose. |
| 13:24.30 | Stskeeps | this is like talking to abill_uk |
| 13:27.21 | Corsac | aha, even nicer, now I just have a black screen instead of the three screens, and logs show: |
| 13:27.23 | Corsac | Nov 29 14:25:50 (2011) signon-ui: Meego graphics system destroyed |
| 13:29.50 | djszapi_ | Stskeeps: frankly, I just think you need to wait if people did really write to the proper address. Collecting everything for a DVD is not 2 minutes. |
| 13:30.14 | djszapi_ | Nokia lawyers would not get Nokia into troubles. You can be pretty certain about that. |
| 13:34.59 | djszapi_ | Corsac: btw, the guy forgot to write where to add those lines ideally into the configure.ac |
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| 13:39.35 | MohammadAG | Youre not making sense |
| 13:41.20 | Corsac | it's unrelated :) |
| 13:42.22 | Corsac | djszapi_: http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/trunk/xfce4-session/debian/patches/04_fix-missing-lm.patch?view=markup here's what I did for a similar issue |
| 13:42.43 | Corsac | (basically I put it next to some AC_CHECK) |
| 13:43.25 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: would you like to have temporary +o to fix the issue? |
| 13:44.02 | MohammadAG | No, that doesnt fix it |
| 13:44.09 | iekku | :D |
| 13:44.10 | DocScrutinizer | indeed :-/ |
| 13:44.24 | iekku | going home, making some popcorn, please don't stop |
| 13:44.25 | iekku | :P |
| 13:44.29 | MohammadAG | It's like taking cocaine to ease pain |
| 13:45.24 | MohammadAG | I'd love one of those GPLv2 pigeons though |
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| 13:45.44 | lardman|work | must be hefty to carry an entire printed kernel source |
| 13:46.00 | djszapi_ | Corsac: thanks, I will try it out. |
| 13:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | on the topic of "smarter than the nokia lawyers" - believe me, my friend Harald Welte has lawyers that actually are WAY smarter than Nokia |
| 13:46.24 | MohammadAG | lardman|work: They used to carry babies in cartoons |
| 13:47.16 | MohammadAG | Sorry, but looking at Nokia's situation my ass looks smarter |
| 13:47.18 | DocScrutinizer | if Nokia lawyers think they can outsmart GPL they will have to learn that they're doomed to fail |
| 13:49.32 | radiofree | are there any actual precedent setting cases regarding GPL compliance? |
| 13:49.35 | DocScrutinizer | btw what an asshat attitude - "we don't care about whether we comply to GPL, if you think you can force us, find lawyers that are better than ours" |
| 13:49.50 | radiofree | I mean, against a large company with fancy lawyers like Nokia? |
| 13:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | radiofree: google for Harald Welte |
| 13:50.15 | Stskeeps | it's just bad press too |
| 13:50.35 | DocScrutinizer | radiofree: he won serveral such law suits |
| 13:50.42 | lardman|work | MohammadAG: those are stalks not pigeons |
| 13:51.05 | radiofree | DocScrutinizer: thanks, he beat D-Link, in court! |
| 13:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | yes, I know |
| 13:51.20 | DocScrutinizer | among others |
| 13:51.21 | Stskeeps | http://www.latindevelopers.com/ivancp/wp-content/uploads/crazy-pigeon.jpg <- GPLv2 pigeon |
| 13:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | most companies retreat |
| 13:51.59 | DocScrutinizer | and finally comply, and recompensate |
| 13:52.09 | DocScrutinizer | in *money* |
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| 13:52.34 | DocScrutinizer | for paying the smarter lawyers of Harald ;-P |
| 13:52.37 | djszapi_ | M4rtinK: have you tried gtk# ? |
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| 13:56.12 | M4rtinK | djszapi_: do you mean GTK with Mono bindings or something else ? |
| 13:58.05 | djszapi_ | yes, I saw some mono running on a Nokia device, and I thought it would be cool to try out. |
| 13:59.19 | M4rtinK | I think someone even ported a Monodevelop and a C&C clone |
| 13:59.41 | djszapi_ | I would be fine with mono as a first step without the monodevelop. |
| 13:59.59 | djszapi_ | it is available on iphone, and also on android like monodroid. |
| 14:01.28 | M4rtinK | yeah, might be nice to program in |
| 14:01.55 | M4rtinK | but other than that it doesn't seem to be very widely used & available |
| 14:02.11 | M4rtinK | at least when compared to Python :) |
| 14:03.30 | djszapi_ | I do not know, but it would be nice to port "mono" in my opinion. |
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| 14:04.02 | djszapi_ | I guess there are tons of dependencies to be ported :) |
| 14:07.10 | djszapi_ | M4rtinK: interestingly enough, fewer than expected: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7), dpkg-dev (>= 1.13.19), libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.4), bison, libtool, libxml-dom-perl, libxslt1-dev, dc, lsb-release, libx11-dev, libxt-dev, zlib1g-dev, autoconf, automake |
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| 14:09.24 | M4rtinK | interesting :) |
| 14:10.57 | djszapi_ | M4rtinK: actually, all of them are available on the platform, so one should just give a try. |
| 14:12.03 | M4rtinK | don't forget COBS :) |
| 14:12.17 | djszapi_ | is it down for you now ? It is for me at least. |
| 14:12.23 | M4rtinK | might be still quite an interesting build :) |
| 14:13.27 | RST38h | kills a hamster, ritually |
| 14:13.41 | djszapi_ | M4rtinK: something triggered a complete rebuild again :/ https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan |
| 14:14.14 | M4rtinK | then web UI seems work fine |
| 14:14.24 | M4rtinK | *to work |
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| 14:32.53 | djszapi_ | M4rtinK: mmm, it does not build. http://paste.kde.org/152618/ |
| 14:34.27 | M4rtinK | djszapi_: try to disable tests |
| 14:35.04 | djszapi_ | it does not fail at a test case. |
| 14:35.17 | M4rtinK | oh now I see |
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| 14:35.43 | M4rtinK | hmm - then try to disable parallel build :) |
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| 14:41.51 | djszapi_ | M4rtinK: it has already been there. |
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| 14:55.44 | gri | anyone here with a xbox 360 and knowledge of its parental control? :) |
| 14:56.50 | djszapi_ | gri: can you try gluon-games this time please ? |
| 14:56.52 | djszapi_ | hi btw :) |
| 14:57.33 | *** join/#harmattan pawky (~theo@c80-217-75-20.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 14:57.53 | pawky | is it just me or are everybody having a problem with the freenode irc server? |
| 14:58.04 | gri | djszapi_: hi - is the version number increased? so can I just upgrade? |
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| 14:59.14 | djszapi_ | gri: yes, it was published |
| 14:59.24 | pawky | I am sorry to anoyingly ask this question a third time, but having problems with freenode i haven't been able to see any replies for my question regarding where to find the latest firmware for N9 |
| 14:59.25 | djszapi_ | gri: do not ask me why X hours later with the old date/time :) |
| 15:00.10 | djszapi_ | pawky: see the topic |
| 15:02.20 | pawky | djszapi_ well... don't developers have to reflash now and then? |
| 15:02.57 | djszapi_ | what do you mean ? You asked the firmware, and the topic has a link. |
| 15:04.13 | pawky | djszapi_ oh, right.. but is the N9 firmware the same as the N950? |
| 15:04.57 | djszapi_ | that is not the N9 firmware. Check the last part of the url |
| 15:05.18 | djszapi_ | ahh not I got your question, sorry |
| 15:05.30 | djszapi_ | I misunderstood, mmm, I think they are different images. |
| 15:05.36 | pawky | djszapi_ yeah.. |
| 15:05.37 | djszapi_ | and imho, you can only use the update. |
| 15:06.21 | pawky | djszapi_ but the update i had used on the old N9 phone is to old for the one i have gotten now :-( |
| 15:06.49 | gri | djszapi_: Why is the framerate in the menu so bad? |
| 15:07.14 | djszapi_ | which menu, the player or the game ? |
| 15:07.54 | djszapi_ | but it means it is running then. It is cool :) |
| 15:08.12 | pawky | djszapi_ after i got the "repaired" N9 and went into developer mode it just reboots all the time complaining about dnmasq |
| 15:09.09 | pawky | djszapi_ I believe I might get out of this endless loop by reflashing it myself, but need the newest firmware :-( |
| 15:10.22 | djszapi_ | pawky: if it is not on the Nokia site, you cannot do it legally. |
| 15:11.55 | pawky | djszapi_ I don't care if it's leegal or not, they should have fixed the phone and took 3 weeks to send me this pease of shit, now I desperately need to flash it, and it complains about the firmware I have being to old. I am not going to send it back another 3 weeks again, thus I need their firmware. besides, the error message tells me to do this flashing anyway |
| 15:12.56 | pawky | djszapi_ I believe someone somewhere must have this firmware.. |
| 15:13.45 | pawky | djszapi_ of course any other idea how to get the phone out of this endless boot loop is also welcome :-) |
| 15:13.47 | gri | djszapi_: Some kind of volume control would be nice :D |
| 15:15.25 | djszapi_ | gri: well, that is up to the game developers... |
| 15:16.22 | djszapi_ | gri: but which meny did you mean to give a hint to ? |
| 15:16.25 | djszapi_ | menu* |
| 15:16.35 | djszapi_ | pawky: I am not a partner in illegal things. |
| 15:16.42 | gri | djszapi_: main menu and it's submenu |
| 15:17.14 | djszapi_ | gri: so you meant to say the game player, not the game menu scene, mmm.. not sure it is really slow ? I mean it works here. |
| 15:17.16 | DocScrutinizer | I got notice in private from inside Nokia that they are looking into what's wrong with kernel-source publishing |
| 15:17.18 | pawky | djszapi_ fair enough, but why would the latest firmware release be a secret, whilst the older one not being so?? |
| 15:17.41 | djszapi_ | pawky: have no clue. I do not decide about that. |
| 15:18.08 | pawky | djszapi_ I can accept burning the earlier version as well, if any one knows how to do so.. |
| 15:18.17 | djszapi_ | gri: to me, it seems faster than the settings framerate :p |
| 15:19.51 | djszapi_ | gri: that is what I do for the click only: https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/entry/player/harmattan/MainPage.qml#L49 |
| 15:20.09 | djszapi_ | I load such a tiny QML file: https://projects.kde.org/projects/playground/games/gluon/repository/revisions/master/entry/player/harmattan/GameDetailsPage.qml |
| 15:20.17 | X-Fade | pawky: Did you try nsu? |
| 15:20.23 | pawky | djszapi_ Ok, so whats your suggestion I do with this replacement phone rebooting itself constantly? |
| 15:20.36 | pawky | X-Fade: nsu? |
| 15:20.41 | X-Fade | pawky: http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/device-software-update?N9= |
| 15:20.42 | djszapi_ | pawky: maintenance service |
| 15:20.53 | X-Fade | nokia software updater :) |
| 15:21.06 | pawky | X-Fade: for linux? :-) |
| 15:21.14 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: his phone does not boot :/ |
| 15:21.27 | X-Fade | pawky: Nah, windows is the way to go :) |
| 15:21.52 | djszapi_ | ahh it is also possible from PC ? |
| 15:22.03 | djszapi_ | even before the boot ? |
| 15:22.06 | X-Fade | djszapi_: That is the only way. Windows flasher. |
| 15:22.09 | pawky | X-Fade: but all it does is flashing it anyway, so if anyone has the nsu, they should also have the firmware file. |
| 15:22.51 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: ah so it is a flasher application hiding the firmware ? |
| 15:23.18 | X-Fade | djszapi_: Guess so, well hiding... |
| 15:23.48 | djszapi_ | gri: did you mean the scrolling framerate, or what framerate specifically ? |
| 15:23.50 | pawky | so... anyone having installed the nsu, should be able to rip out just the firmware... and I cannot really se that as being something illeagal |
| 15:23.59 | gri | djszapi_: scrolling, yes |
| 15:24.08 | gri | seemed slow but I can try later again |
| 15:24.16 | djszapi_ | gri: how can that be slow ? |
| 15:24.24 | gri | first I have to find out how to control that damn xbox of my brother |
| 15:24.26 | djszapi_ | it only fetches the data once, I guess |
| 15:25.37 | djszapi_ | pawky: why not just nsu and one ? |
| 15:25.39 | djszapi_ | done* |
| 15:26.47 | pawky | djszapi_: could it be because I hate Windows?... and thus doesn not have it?.... ;-) |
| 15:27.15 | pawky | djszapi_ Thats why I bought this cool (when working) phone in the first place |
| 15:27.50 | djszapi_ | Nokia did not publish the image for a reason. |
| 15:27.58 | pawky | djszapi_: like? |
| 15:28.09 | pawky | djszapi_: I believe they are just a bit slow in doing so... |
| 15:28.45 | djszapi_ | :)) |
| 15:28.47 | pawky | djszapi_: and I am phine with flashing the older one, if I could make the unit not refushing to do so |
| 15:28.53 | X-Fade | pawky: Nah, it is a consumer product. Consumers can't possibly use linux :) |
| 15:29.14 | pawky | X-Fade: well thats what most people actually do everyday... |
| 15:29.28 | djszapi_ | my mother does not use Linux. |
| 15:29.29 | pawky | X-Fade: routers, web servers.... |
| 15:29.55 | pawky | djszapi_: have you given her a chance to do so? |
| 15:30.06 | djszapi_ | yes, ubuntu was horribly buggy |
| 15:30.15 | pawky | djszapi_: try openSuSE |
| 15:30.16 | djszapi_ | sadly, windows worked better. |
| 15:30.46 | pawky | djszapi_: until you end up with tons of viruses, or antivirus softwares, phising etc.. etc.. |
| 15:31.08 | pawky | djszapi_:well lets not make this a windows, linux flame war shall we? ;-) |
| 15:31.10 | djszapi_ | which is easier to reinstall for her than hacking linux... |
| 15:31.41 | djszapi_ | please do not, get a windows and do |
| 15:31.51 | djszapi_ | if you wanna proceed, or send it back. We do not see better solution |
| 15:32.02 | pawky | ahh.. my phone (after 20 reboots) tells me "Device not working properly, try updatin the software" , which is what I want to do |
| 15:32.18 | pawky | djszapi_:if she would run a linux Live CD no reinstallation would ever be needed ;-) |
| 15:32.40 | djszapi_ | and reinstall everything after each reboot ? |
| 15:32.57 | pawky | djszapi_: I would call it reload... not reinstall.. |
| 15:33.14 | pawky | or, give her a USB key to boot from.. |
| 15:33.33 | pawky | any one knowing what problem this phone might have with dnsmasq ? |
| 15:33.35 | djszapi_ | I think you start making it difficult for a person. |
| 15:33.41 | djszapi_ | an elder person* |
| 15:34.35 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: btw, have you ever tried this ? I am now trying it out :) I am curious |
| 15:35.18 | pawky | djszapi_:trust me, I could install the system once and for all, and then a reinstallation for her would never be necessary.. as Linux doesn't slow down by age.. |
| 15:35.59 | pawky | djszapi_:But I believe this is another topic to discuss outside the #harmattan channel ;-) |
| 15:36.23 | pawky | and I still need that firmware somehow... |
| 15:36.35 | djszapi_ | you are basically saying I am not aware of Linux, so that I could not try to make ubuntu work properly ? |
| 15:36.47 | djszapi_ | because of my knowledge ? |
| 15:37.33 | djszapi_ | A normal operating system should not need any "expertise" to install "for eternal life" anyway. |
| 15:38.33 | pawky | djszapi_:please, I believe this discussion is far beyond this channel, but a 3 year old could install Linux without problems |
| 15:39.08 | pawky | djszapi_:just try a Live CD, or similar.. then you don't even have to install anything.. |
| 15:39.17 | djszapi_ | well you started it, and I now stop itt. Please get a free windows or send your device back. There is no other way around! |
| 15:40.47 | pawky | djszapi_:Well, I beg to differ... and i presume there might be people in this place who has the knowledge howto, as they helped me before. |
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| 15:43.35 | pawky | djszapi_: (I am a bit curious though, where you could get a "free windows"? I haven't heard of such ever...) |
| 15:44.15 | *** join/#harmattan adlan_ (~adlan@110.159.229.85) |
| 15:45.36 | djszapi_ | there zillion ways, as a student obviously one, as an employee, you can ask your company, in any case: you can find a friend using windows and do it on that PC. Please be creative. |
| 15:45.59 | djszapi_ | but if you cannot really get to a legal Windows in any way, not even any familiars, I recommend to send it back and they will handle it. |
| 15:46.59 | pawky | djszapi_:I just got it back from them today... after a 3 week rendez vous to to Hungary... |
| 15:47.20 | djszapi_ | so what ? You do not wanna solve your problem ? |
| 15:47.35 | pawky | djszapi_:I didn't want the problem in the first place |
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| 16:02.11 | pawky | djszapi_:doesn't the nokia software updater actually need your phone to be up and running to be able to do any update? |
| 16:02.39 | djszapi_ | why would that make any sense ? |
| 16:02.46 | djszapi_ | if your phone is up and running you can do it yourself |
| 16:02.52 | pawky | djszapi_:and if not? |
| 16:03.06 | djszapi_ | if not, you cannot do it yourself, hence PC. |
| 16:03.10 | djszapi_ | that is my logic. |
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| 16:03.38 | pawky | djszapi_:but have you tried to do it with the phone off, on a Windows machine? |
| 16:03.59 | djszapi_ | no, got distracted. |
| 16:04.09 | pawky | I believe the software will kindly ask you to boot up your phone into USB mode. |
| 16:04.25 | djszapi_ | except if it gets the image and flash it. |
| 16:04.41 | djszapi_ | it would make no sense to update it if you can do it yourself anyway |
| 16:05.11 | pawky | djszapi_:so, you are SURE it doesn't want you to boot up you phone? |
| 16:05.43 | X-Fade | pawky: you never have to boot your phone to flash it. |
| 16:05.52 | X-Fade | pawky: The bootloader takes care of that. |
| 16:06.04 | pawky | X-Fade: then why does the WINDOWS nvu tell me to? |
| 16:06.19 | X-Fade | pawky: It tells you to wait for the usb icon. |
| 16:06.43 | pawky | X-Fade:nope, it tells me to boot up, write in my pin codes and go into USB mode.. |
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| 16:07.16 | X-Fade | That is just pain wierd :) |
| 16:07.26 | pawky | X-Fade:i know.... |
| 16:07.37 | djszapi_ | interesting, our complainer got windows running in few minutes... |
| 16:08.20 | pawky | djszapi_:well, my friends might not be as fortunate as me.. |
| 16:10.46 | pawky | Is there any way to make the N9 stop rebooting itself? |
| 16:11.18 | X-Fade | Hold power button for >9 secs |
| 16:11.19 | tomma | shut it down? =) |
| 16:11.32 | djszapi_ | :))) |
| 16:11.32 | pawky | and why does Nokia seem to have an "unplanned service break", just when i need them the most? |
| 16:11.44 | pawky | X-Fade: done that, still reboots |
| 16:11.51 | djszapi_ | because we wanna make people's life hard. |
| 16:12.11 | pawky | djszapi_:I'll bet you do... |
| 16:12.14 | djszapi_ | (ironic before taking seriously) |
| 16:12.23 | X-Fade | pawky: Hold longer? |
| 16:12.27 | pawky | djszapi_:(i know) |
| 16:12.39 | pawky | X-Fade:use gun?... |
| 16:12.54 | X-Fade | pawky: I got it to shutdown during SSU and during flashing, so it should work always. |
| 16:13.14 | djszapi_ | gri: have you experienced that after unlocking the screen, my app appears some in diagonal mode ? :o |
| 16:13.22 | pawky | 9...10...11..15..20 |
| 16:13.31 | pawky | still rebooting |
| 16:14.16 | gri | djszapi_: No, atleast not in the main menu |
| 16:14.18 | pawky | this is sheer irony "Try updatin the device software with Nokia Sofware update... yada, yada" djszapi_ you are definitely right |
| 16:15.02 | pawky | but, anybody who wants to give me the right firmware so I can update it using the linux flasher, will be the hero of the day |
| 16:15.21 | pawky | I cannot wait another 3 weeks to also get this unit fixed.. |
| 16:15.24 | djszapi_ | so we are culsprit because we wanted to help with giving an idea ? |
| 16:16.03 | pawky | djszapi_:no... i cannot really see how you came to that conlusion... |
| 16:17.47 | pawky | djszapi_:if your not working for Nokia that is... |
| 16:18.31 | djszapi_ | I still work for Nokia. |
| 16:18.44 | pawky | djszapi_:Then you are the culprit to it all.. |
| 16:19.08 | djszapi_ | cheers ! =) |
| 16:19.16 | pawky | djszapi_:unless you help me out getting a binary to flash... which would make you a hero... |
| 16:19.36 | pawky | djszapi_:or reboot your software updater servers so they work... |
| 16:21.56 | pawky | I will gladly install the older firmware, and then update from it, if anybody knows how to bypass the "Downgrade disallowed" issue.. |
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| 16:27.07 | pawky | will -c coldflashing the unit make me able to install older firmware? |
| 16:27.13 | *** part/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 16:27.14 | frals | no |
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| 16:27.52 | pawky | is there anyway to erase user data? tried it with flasher but tells me not allowed.. |
| 16:29.05 | jonni | pawky: did you get replacement device already? |
| 16:29.16 | pawky | So, here I am, with my new N9 replacement unit rebooting itself to oblivia, Nokia having an "Unplanned Service Break" and only an older firmware available the unit refuses to flash |
| 16:29.16 | tomma | they dont release oneclickflashers for n9? |
| 16:29.25 | pawky | jonni: yes... :'( |
| 16:29.40 | pawky | jonni:took them 3 1/2 weeks, but now its here.... |
| 16:30.29 | pawky | jonni: booted up nicely. I configured 4 e-mail accounts and went for developer mode.. since then it constantly rebots and in the end coming up complaining about dnsmasq problems.. |
| 16:30.56 | jonni | and you checked that you got different device back, and not the original one? |
| 16:31.07 | pawky | jonni:how could I? |
| 16:31.18 | pawky | jonni:it just constantly reboots itself... |
| 16:31.46 | pawky | jonni: it doesnt even boot up... just goes halfway.. 30 times, then comlains about dnsmasq |
| 16:33.33 | jonni | it just sounds like that you got your faulty device back, you had the imei number in the old log that you gave me, and you could check if it matches to your device with ./flasher |
| 16:34.07 | pawky | jonni:can I somehow bypass the downgrade disallowance, so I can install the older firmware, and then upgrade using the N9? |
| 16:34.30 | jonni | pawky: nope, downgrade cannot be bypassed |
| 16:34.57 | jonni | navifirm has the latest firmware though |
| 16:35.05 | pawky | jonni:Device identier = IMEI? |
| 16:35.05 | djszapi_ | which is completely illegal |
| 16:35.43 | jonni | ohwell and NSU has the latest firmware too, which uses the same url's than navifirm. |
| 16:35.55 | Corsac | NSU? |
| 16:36.06 | jonni | Corsac: nokia software updater |
| 16:36.10 | pawky | djszapi_:why would it be illegal to install an OLDER version? |
| 16:36.19 | djszapi_ | not older, a pirate version |
| 16:36.31 | pawky | jonni:trying NSU it complains the servers are unavailable.. |
| 16:36.33 | djszapi_ | if you do that, you can forget your warranty, I am pretty sure. |
| 16:36.40 | Corsac | jonni: windows only I guess? |
| 16:36.47 | djszapi_ | all the people who did it here, it is in the log, so not hard to trace back. |
| 16:37.19 | pawky | djszapi_:well... maybe Nokia should check what the F.... they send back to me before starting to complain about warranty.. |
| 16:37.22 | jonni | Corsac: yep, NSU windows only, and pc suite might also work for updates. |
| 16:37.28 | Kaadlajk | how is that pirated if it is the same version that NSU uses |
| 16:37.49 | djszapi_ | Kaadlajk: who allowed them to publish what Nokia did not do for /their/ software ? |
| 16:37.54 | tomma | pawky, you can download those images straight from nokia ftp? |
| 16:38.20 | djszapi_ | it is b asically the same with other pirate services, they use an indirect service to the original source, and then get caught |
| 16:40.21 | pawky | tomma: sounds great... do you have any FTP address where this can be done? |
| 16:40.41 | djszapi_ | time to report these things to Quim, and let us see what he answers... |
| 16:41.01 | X-Fade | Quim doesn't work there anymore. |
| 16:41.11 | pawky | djszapi_:How can installing older N9 firmware on a N9 be any type of piracy, or illegal?.. |
| 16:41.35 | pawky | djszapi_:its the same OS for christ sake, just with more bugs.... or less. |
| 16:42.00 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: Quim is still nokian |
| 16:42.08 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: and he will know who it relates to. |
| 16:42.22 | X-Fade | djszapi_: Sure, but now purely on Qt. Don't bother him with random stuff ;) |
| 16:42.44 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: he asked me in the past when people complained about aegis, and published secutiy holes to report .... |
| 16:42.48 | pawky | ohh.. how cute, Nokias repair team in Hungary have been so kind to send me back the same unit... |
| 16:43.22 | X-Fade | djszapi_: But that was before he changed jobs. |
| 16:43.24 | djszapi_ | It is really out-of-my-attention, but it seems it became a daily habit here, illegal softwares, security holes and so on. It does really hurt them. |
| 16:43.33 | djszapi_ | X-Fade: no, actually it was after |
| 16:44.55 | djszapi_ | and I did really warn more times, and that is why it makes me sad. |
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| 16:53.30 | tomma | pawky, i have no idea if these are anyway valid images: http://cforum1.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=2572474 |
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| 16:56.06 | djszapi_ | It is simple, which is not coming directly from Nokia: it is not something they would like to share. |
| 16:57.20 | djszapi_ | so unless someone can show a link on a Nokia site to that image, it is quite illegal |
| 16:58.13 | Corsac | well, afaict the links were mostly to Nokia site |
| 16:58.36 | djszapi_ | have you ever seen that link ? |
| 16:59.00 | djszapi_ | that seems a download link, which is not intended because there was no Nokia announcement, and direct link |
| 16:59.02 | pawky | djszapi_: weirdly, I haven't ... |
| 16:59.30 | djszapi_ | so yes, sure, someone figured out the download URL...how legal! |
| 16:59.38 | Corsac | how illegal? |
| 16:59.56 | djszapi_ | no that was irony |
| 17:00.08 | Corsac | ianal, but that just look very spurious to me |
| 17:00.23 | djszapi_ | there are internals on this channel sharing security holes and illegal software links, I would not be surprised if the link comes from an internal... |
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| 17:00.55 | pawky | djszapi_: but now I have. on the other hand, jonni is just as sure as I, its a hardware issue.. |
| 17:01.18 | djszapi_ | pawky: I told you long ago to send it back... |
| 17:01.24 | djszapi_ | if nothing helps, not even Windows... |
| 17:01.29 | pawky | djszapi_: which I did! |
| 17:01.44 | pawky | djszapi_: They where just so kind to send me the same phone back! |
| 17:01.52 | Corsac | djszapi_: or a from a proxy log :) |
| 17:01.53 | pawky | djszapi_: with a new firmware.... |
| 17:02.08 | djszapi_ | pawky: you wanna suffers for you for sure, right ? :) |
| 17:02.08 | pawky | djszapi_: Jonni helped me confirm its the same phone.. |
| 17:02.22 | djszapi_ | they* |
| 17:02.51 | djszapi_ | mistakes happen, we are human... |
| 17:02.51 | pawky | djszapi_: Trying to keep up the spirit of Linux, by supporting it bying an N9, seem to really be a drag yes... |
| 17:03.03 | djszapi_ | the doctor here made an operation for the wrong client... |
| 17:03.06 | djszapi_ | patience* |
| 17:03.10 | pawky | djszapi_: I wrote in the description it needed to be replaced.. |
| 17:03.16 | pawky | djszapi_: ha ha ha.. |
| 17:03.21 | djszapi_ | it is not funny... |
| 17:03.33 | djszapi_ | the leg of the patience was amputated... |
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| 17:04.27 | pawky | djszapi_: Well...I'll bet that doctor now works for Nokia in Hungary... |
| 17:04.44 | pawky | djszapi_: fixing nokia N9 replacements.. |
| 17:05.39 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 17:09.14 | Kaadlajk | :-/ |
| 17:09.27 | Kaadlajk | what the hell was that about |
| 17:10.22 | *** part/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 17:10.25 | yipdw | an overextended metaphor |
| 17:10.56 | Kaadlajk | I find his comments and attitude very depressing |
| 17:12.04 | yipdw | whose? |
| 17:12.12 | Kaadlajk | djszapi_ |
| 17:12.16 | yipdw | oh |
| 17:12.16 | pawky | Kaadlajk:It's about me sending my phone for replacement to Nokia, who sent it to hungary, who just flashed it and sent the same unit back... |
| 17:12.28 | Kaadlajk | pawky: yes, I read that |
| 17:12.48 | pawky | Kaadlajk: and now it got into an endless loop not working at all.. |
| 17:12.57 | pawky | :-) |
| 17:18.15 | Kaadlajk | now he is threatening to report me to nokia authority |
| 17:19.08 | pawky | Kaadlajk:well.. are you the responsible Nokia repairman only flashing a unit instead of replacing it? |
| 17:19.31 | Kaadlajk | naah djszapi said I was encouraging people to use illegal images |
| 17:19.35 | Kaadlajk | which I was clearly not |
| 17:20.20 | pawky | Kaadlajk: Well don't take to much attention to it... |
| 17:20.39 | DocScrutinizer | Kaadlajk: please ignore djzapii |
| 17:20.50 | pawky | DocScrutinizer: right... |
| 17:20.57 | yipdw | pawky: you're on Linux, right |
| 17:21.03 | yipdw | pawky: have you tried http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Reference_documentation_Flashing_tools_Flashing_in_Linux.html ? |
| 17:21.15 | Kaadlajk | DocScrutinizer: ignoring him makes conversations on this channel look strange :-/ |
| 17:21.22 | Corsac | yipdw: he needs the firmware image :) |
| 17:21.24 | DocScrutinizer | Kaadlajk: he obviously isn't clear about his own job, and sometimes thinks he's bos of Nokia lawjyer dept |
| 17:21.26 | yipdw | oh |
| 17:21.27 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 17:21.35 | Kaadlajk | I will ignore him in my head and think happy thought |
| 17:21.35 | Kaadlajk | s |
| 17:21.38 | DocScrutinizer | Kaadlajk: I know :-D |
| 17:21.47 | RST38h | Kaddlajk: Simply tell him you are going to report him to his boss at Nokia |
| 17:21.51 | pawky | yipdw:Thanks, but jonni again helped me confirm its a hardware issue.. |
| 17:21.53 | RST38h | This usually does the job of pacification |
| 17:22.21 | yipdw | pawky: ok |
| 17:22.35 | yipdw | interesting hardware issue |
| 17:22.44 | pawky | yipdw: I dohave the flashing stuff already.. before confirming it was a hadware issue (or to be frank the same phone as the one i sent for rpairs) I wanted to get the latest firmware... |
| 17:22.57 | djszapi_ | maybe bad memory. |
| 17:23.13 | pawky | djszapi_:yeah, either that, or the I2C chip.. |
| 17:23.19 | pawky | or both.. |
| 17:24.16 | pawky | I am writing a complaint to nokia@careview.se ... |
| 17:24.40 | Stskeeps | Kaadlajk: irssi has a feature to ignore messages going towards a person too |
| 17:25.03 | RST38h | yeah. /ignore <nick> private should work |
| 17:25.05 | pawky | :-D |
| 17:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: won't help as usually users don't consequent highlicghting |
| 17:25.32 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i just group them in with mentally insane people and that does the trick |
| 17:25.35 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 17:27.04 | yipdw | on a different subject, has anyone looked into what it would take to get the music player to do gapless playback? |
| 17:27.30 | yipdw | I'm hoping this isn't a "the audio architecture makes it really hard" problem |
| 17:28.11 | pawky | yipdw:isn't that a preload issue? |
| 17:28.13 | DocScrutinizer | btw this insane threatening people becuase the allegedly "violate Nokia's TOS" is upsetting me, as most people here in meanwhile probably not even are using a device they had to sign any TOS contract with Nokia for, so they are free to use whatever "illegal firmware" they like, and they are free to talk about it, and there's no djszapi to stop them from doing so |
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| 17:28.54 | yipdw | pawky: it is necessary to preload part of the next file, yeah, but I'm wondering how much work has been done towards figuring out the most appropriate place to add that |
| 17:29.19 | pawky | DocScruitinizer:come on, hes not that bad mr djszapi_ he is just being concerned about us N9 users ;-) |
| 17:29.37 | yipdw | as far as I can tell, Harmattan uses PulseAudio, so anything that applies there should apply to the Harmattan music player |
| 17:29.38 | pawky | yipdw:thus no gap problem then :-) |
| 17:30.02 | yipdw | pawky: there's already a way to preload part of the next track? |
| 17:32.26 | pawky | yipdw:I am sorry not being able to answer that... |
| 17:32.42 | yipdw | pawky: no problem; I was just wondering if I've just missed something |
| 17:33.44 | pawky | yipdw:This i don't know.. my thought was just that it shouldn't be a hardware limitation.. |
| 17:34.02 | yipdw | pawky: yes, I agree, the hardware is most likely capable of handling that |
| 17:34.44 | yipdw | I don't suppose the source code to the music player is open, is it? |
| 17:35.25 | yipdw | was poking around the PulseAudio mailing list; evidently gapless playback is the sort of thing Lennart thinks is a client issue |
| 17:35.40 | djszapi_ | yipdw: you can always try to use apt-get source |
| 17:35.45 | yipdw | fair enough |
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| 17:43.06 | yipdw | oh, heh |
| 17:43.13 | yipdw | I have no source URLs defined in /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 17:43.18 | yipdw | ok then, gotta go find those |
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| 17:49.36 | djszapi_ | Stskeeps: can you please send me the kernel source request ? I have asked the leader of the SDK, and he did not get such a request yet. I do not find it on google either. |
| 17:50.56 | DocScrutinizer | jonni: comments? |
| 17:51.05 | djszapi_ | yipdw you have something like: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-001-tr.list |
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| 18:01.58 | djszapi_ | yipdw: I believe gstreamer already has some support for that. |
| 18:02.09 | djszapi_ | Anyway, Pulseaudio isn't really concerned here. |
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| 18:03.22 | djszapi_ | For gapless playback the music player should use just one stream, and not create new one every time the track changes. |
| 18:03.48 | DocScrutinizer | Kaadlajk: since I am on his ignore list, you might want to inform djszapi_ about two facts: 1) there's no such thing like "illegal images" (maybe there's a thing like illegally publishing copyrighted material, but no illegal image or illegal usage of an image), and 2) if he continues to threat people, no matter if publicly or in private queries, then I'm not hesitating to remove him from this IRC channel |
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| 18:04.45 | jabis | how would you preload anything over the current running stream tho... |
| 18:05.58 | *** join/#harmattan michael_Behman (~michael_B@41.196.240.251) |
| 18:06.24 | djszapi_ | It's then up to gstreamer to start generating more audio for the one continuous stream when the track is about to end. So, the only important thing from Pulseaudio point of view is that the stream is continuous. Then there are no track changes at all from Pulseaudio's point of view, thus Pulseaudio isn't really concerned. |
| 18:08.42 | michael_Behman | Evening guys, I understand the PR1.1 OTA hasn't reached egypt yet, right? But shouldn't I be able to update using "Nokia Software Updater"? For some reason, it also says that there are no updates available. Any thoughts? |
| 18:10.20 | djszapi_ | If you're for some reason forced to create new streams for each track, then you're out of luck. There's no way of synchronizing one stream's ending to another one's start in Pulseaudio. |
| 18:11.22 | DocScrutinizer | Michael_Behman: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79792 |
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| 18:25.28 | RST38h | heh, smoku, live. |
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| 18:27.00 | Michael_Behman | I'm sorry DocScrutinizer, but what am I looking at exactly. It's more of comments about people who got their OTA updates. I'm willing to even do it using "Nokia Software Updater" from the computer. Is that also bound by the region? |
| 18:27.48 | ajalkane | michael: NSU, no, you need to use Navifirm if you want to update. Dunno exactly why. |
| 18:27.48 | DocScrutinizer | seems there's no way to get recent image other than using a windowscrap app called navifirm |
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| 18:30.57 | Michael_Behman | Hmm, I don't think I like this much. Nokia is being already influenced by Microsoft's "Regional priority" policy. Any ideas why the update wasn't just realized to everyone everywhere? |
| 18:32.13 | ajalkane | There's region specific customizations in the different firmwares. So I guess it's up to each region to decide when they're ready to push it OTA. |
| 18:32.53 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 18:33.26 | DocScrutinizer | and updating the firmware via flashing isn't exactly riskfree, so I suggest you carefully read the whole thread |
| 18:33.54 | villager | I suspect it's up to the mobile operators that sells the phone in the region |
| 18:34.03 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 18:34.05 | villager | to update the firmwares for their region |
| 18:34.58 | DocScrutinizer | the whole update scheme is meant to keep branding, and that'S probably where delay comes from |
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| 18:35.52 | DocScrutinizer | probably operators complained about it been too easy to debrand N900 |
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| 18:36.27 | ajalkane | operators are such assclowns, really |
| 18:36.56 | DocScrutinizer | as opeators also have a tendency nowadays to shove premium value-added-services down their customers' throats |
| 18:37.01 | yipdw | djszapi_: that mode of operation sounds fair to me; and yeah, I do have /etc/apt/sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-005.list, but I've not yet been able to figure out how to derive the source URLs from what's in there |
| 18:37.11 | yipdw | the obvious deb -> deb-src doesn't work |
| 18:39.34 | jabis | the OTA was held back in other regions, because a lot of people bricking their phones with it (and operators being assclowns) |
| 18:42.43 | Michael_Behman | How nice :/ |
| 18:43.18 | Michael_Behman | Well, thanks anyway guys. I think I'll get PR1.1 by the release of PR1.3. |
| 18:44.21 | Michael_Behman | but I still believe that Nokia should provide an alternative way to update manually. But not that risky also. |
| 18:44.30 | Michael_Behman | Anyway, thanks again for the help. |
| 18:44.31 | pawky | DocScruitinizer:That's exactly my thoughts regarding images and such... |
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| 18:46.35 | jabis | Michael_Behman: I dunno whether the NSU on nokia UK still has the update or not, you could check from there - but the thread you were linked to has a lot of info you should be aware if you decide to go thru with anything other than the official OTA that comes at some point - also there's your regional nokia care, that will do the flashing for you for small fee (or should be) |
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| 18:47.38 | jabis | my friend didn't want to go thru with anything, paid ~40e to have it serviced |
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| 18:48.42 | Michael_Behman | jabis, yeah, maybe I will go ask there. But if they'll be doing it using navifirm, then I'd rather do it myself. |
| 18:49.07 | smoku | hi |
| 18:50.57 | pawky | does anyone have a md5sum on the firmware downloadable using navifirm? |
| 18:51.31 | djszapi_ | yipdw: it is probably not open source then |
| 18:51.34 | pawky | just want to check if the japanese/chinese site has the same ones |
| 18:51.58 | yipdw | djszapi_: that's my thought; in that case, I guess I can ask Nokia to open it up |
| 18:52.15 | djszapi_ | yipdw: probably futile, but you can do for sure. |
| 18:52.33 | daniel_2 | pawky: there are a lot of different firmwares, i think they have different md5sums |
| 18:52.36 | yipdw | yeah, that or port some other player |
| 18:53.07 | lizardo | djszapi_: not wanting to resurrect the great flame war here but... Are you aware of any security bug bounties for N9? It would really improve platform security in general by bringing attention from security researchers |
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| 18:53.42 | jabis | pawky: different regions & operators have different images |
| 18:53.44 | pawky | daniel_2:yes, that's why I want to figure out if one of them might be the same latest original firmware for the N9, so we Linux users do not have to buy a windows box to get hold of them. |
| 18:54.18 | pawky | jabis: fair enough, how about any swedish/Nordic md5sum? |
| 18:54.42 | jabis | wait a sec, I'll check my northern europe image |
| 18:54.46 | djszapi_ | lizardo: please do not start it all over again |
| 18:55.03 | jabis | oh shi - I don't have md5 tools x) (on windows) |
| 18:55.08 | pawky | jabis:how did you get hold of it?.. any URL? |
| 18:55.18 | smoku | is it possible to build package for fremantle using harmattan SDK? |
| 18:55.35 | pawky | jabis: yeah, there is a lot ask for on a Windows box... ;-) |
| 18:56.14 | lizardo | djszapi_: it is a simple question (yes/no) I didn't mention the "bad" word ;). If not, please bring it to your platsec colleagues if possible |
| 18:57.45 | djszapi_ | lizardo: you are internal, it is bit weird to be smart 2 years laters than neede |
| 18:57.49 | djszapi_ | d |
| 18:58.20 | djszapi_ | why didn't you give feedback when the system was designed ? This question makes no sense nowadays |
| 18:58.27 | djszapi_ | we even asked for feedbacks... |
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| 18:59.46 | jabis | pawky: cc828321c85b5f677e58f360b616ecf3 for NDT Northern Europe 059J187 version |
| 19:00.09 | jabis | pawky: DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin |
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| 19:00.54 | djszapi_ | lizardo: all that can be done is smaller bugfixes, but you should know this as an internal. |
| 19:01.09 | lizardo | djszapi_: I am *not* internal (thankfully). I worked with projects for nokia, not related to security at all. |
| 19:01.12 | pawky | jabis:Thank you :-) |
| 19:01.27 | djszapi_ | lizardo: this is the part of quoting your internal mails ? |
| 19:01.34 | djszapi_ | on the mailign list, or what ? |
| 19:02.27 | djszapi_ | you were internal, but anyway, this request is really rather outdated nowadays, sorry. What you ask, is just impossible, and were done durign the architectural design phrase anyway |
| 19:03.44 | djszapi_ | actually the part of the team were built upon security researchers anyway |
| 19:03.48 | lizardo | djszapi_: yes, I happened to subscribe to internal mailing lists through my external/subcontractor email. But now I lost access :) So consider this a question from someone (with no internal contact) asking if Nokia is willing to *pay* for security research (AKA find security holes) on harmattan |
| 19:04.06 | pawky | cool, then http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/p/d/fds_fire/1110/2709/6514740380/DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin is the right one to have if being in the Nordic countries. |
| 19:04.14 | djszapi_ | lizardo: we did that really, we had many hackfests. |
| 19:04.23 | djszapi_ | lizardo: the product is getting over, what do you expect really ? :) |
| 19:04.32 | pawky | djszapi_ now that wasn't so hard to tell was it ? |
| 19:05.36 | djszapi_ | lizardo: actually even got help from kernel experts, but this is just really trivial collaboration between teams :) |
| 19:05.52 | djszapi_ | lizardo: actually, the upstream kernel security maintainer (one of those) even worked for us |
| 19:06.01 | djszapi_ | so it might be that, you are just not informed properly :) |
| 19:07.12 | lizardo | djszapi_: that's all good but... supposing holes passed through all this hackfest/review and exist now, is anyone willing to pay for reporting them? |
| 19:07.38 | pawky | lizardo: pay for them? |
| 19:07.56 | djszapi_ | lizardo: ok, put it clearly since it seems it is not obvious for you even as an ex-worker: Nokia does not concentrate that much on Harmattan, no resource, understand ? |
| 19:08.06 | lizardo | pawky: yes, that's the concept of "bug bounties" like Mozilla ones |
| 19:08.42 | pawky | lizardo: no chivalry any more to be seen... :-( |
| 19:08.59 | pawky | lizardo: everything is just about money these days... |
| 19:09.34 | djszapi_ | pawky: google also pays you if you find a security hole. |
| 19:09.49 | lizardo | pawky: yes :( specially because the sec guys do this for a living usuallt |
| 19:09.49 | djszapi_ | the university from Oulu got 60000 EUR that way or so |
| 19:10.18 | lizardo | pawky: but the idea is actually to improve security for everybody |
| 19:10.40 | djszapi_ | pawky: what lizardo is missing 11th of February |
| 19:10.42 | pawky | djsjapi_ wouldn't the security holes pay more themselves, i mean if one is going for the money anyway? |
| 19:10.46 | djszapi_ | and that is what different for Nokia |
| 19:10.52 | lizardo | pawky: so usually they have some non-disclosure agreement, and the bug is usually private until it is fixed by the vendor |
| 19:10.58 | djszapi_ | pawky: no :) |
| 19:11.14 | djszapi_ | lizardo: that is not true |
| 19:11.27 | djszapi_ | it is non-disclosed until it gets released or even actually a bit more |
| 19:11.39 | djszapi_ | since the existing images would harm a lot. |
| 19:11.54 | pawky | lizardo: wouldn't it be better to let everybody know, so one could solve the issue oneself, instead of doing it the Microsoft way, security by obscurity? |
| 19:12.42 | yipdw | pawky: these days, it's infeasible to fix a security issue in software to which you don't have the source code |
| 19:12.43 | pawky | if there is a bug out there that might affect my software/hardware I would damn well want to know about it... |
| 19:13.10 | pawky | yipdw:true, but if one knows about it one can act, if not you just another sitting duck... |
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| 19:14.16 | djszapi_ | lizardo: I thought it is clear what happened inside Nokia |
| 19:14.25 | djszapi_ | ah...it would be much better to discuss it over a drink :) |
| 19:14.37 | pawky | yipdw:silence is only beneficial to the black hats, and the company owning the software/hardware, never the user |
| 19:14.40 | yipdw | pawky: in a lot of cases, sure. however, there's also the assumption that the bad guys already know about the flaw, which doesn't necessarily hold true |
| 19:15.02 | yipdw | and when we talk about "the bad guys", scale also matters |
| 19:15.03 | djszapi_ | but the point is this: we did not reach the state of a real "hackfest" until 11th of February. After that, everybody was leaving Nokia, no real decisions, architectural changes, work that much anymore. We have actually never reached we wanted, understand ? |
| 19:15.05 | pawky | djszapi_:Im in, then we can clear this Windows/Linux thing as well once and for all ;-) |
| 19:15.07 | djszapi_ | lizardo^ |
| 19:15.13 | lizardo | djszapi_: do you know anyone from security team still working on Nokia for N9 (in maintenance mode)? |
| 19:15.23 | yipdw | e.g. a few top-level black hats vs. any script kiddie who can download Metasploit |
| 19:15.46 | djszapi_ | lizardo: I am one of those. |
| 19:15.49 | pawky | yipdw: its better to assume they do, and then also let everybody else do.. |
| 19:16.27 | yipdw | pawky: it could be. I don't know, full disclosure's a tricky topic |
| 19:16.55 | djszapi_ | lizardo: it became clear to me after 11th of February, we have many holes we can never really fix. |
| 19:16.56 | lizardo | pawky: in a case where the vendor is not willing to fix bugs in a timely fashion (or has just abandoned the product) I can agree with you. But we usually want to find the "right path" and have vendors fixing bugs ASAP |
| 19:17.14 | djszapi_ | lizardo: I do not disclosure them, but until we fix those, it does not really make sense to have a really big hackfest. |
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| 19:17.42 | pawky | lizardo: but I would like to be able to make a dessicion if having to take action even before the fix exists |
| 19:17.49 | djszapi_ | lizardo: as you said, describes everything really. It is clearly got abandoned after the eleventh of February. |
| 19:18.25 | djszapi_ | lizardo: so you would like to beat the dead horse. |
| 19:18.59 | djszapi_ | we did really plan such things, we never got to the finish. |
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| 19:20.15 | djszapi_ | it is like testing an alpha API. |
| 19:24.27 | djszapi_ | lizardo: so your idea basically makes a lot of sense, but it is a "bit" la te. |
| 19:26.11 | lizardo | pawky: one approach is to do like some Apple(?) hackers did, use the security hole to fix itself (by hot-patching), but it feels so dirty, and you wonder if it is not better to switch to some other OS (I plan to contribute to #NemoMobile someday) :( |
| 19:27.26 | pawky | lizardo:how about reveiling the security flaw to the public? Then things would start happening, wouldn't it? |
| 19:27.55 | djszapi_ | the poitn of the security analyzes is to avoid them before the public.. |
| 19:28.23 | pawky | djszapi_:that's true, but what if nobody fixes them? |
| 19:28.44 | djszapi_ | that is what is happnening nowadays, no manpower at Nokia anyways :) |
| 19:29.18 | djszapi_ | but yes, probably there is another matter to speak about than security all the time right ? ;) |
| 19:29.37 | lizardo | pawky: I'm with yipdw in this matter (about full disclosure). Information is good, but some sort of fix should follow it. Otherwise the "regular" users can do nothing about it. |
| 19:30.12 | yipdw | well, that's not entirely true -- you can throw more stuff in front of the vulnerable object :P |
| 19:30.25 | pawky | lizardy:yes, if either oneself can provide it or if the vendor can. But if you can't and the vendor refuses, then one might reveal it to the public to give it a "push"... |
| 19:31.07 | pawky | if it gets known, one might at least be able to avoid the exploit to be used until its fixed, depending upon what the issue is about. |
| 19:31.25 | djszapi_ | and one can exploit even more ... |
| 19:31.51 | djszapi_ | which would most likely to be the case, since all the attentions would be there. |
| 19:31.57 | pawky | djszapi_:yes, but at least you know about it... better than being exploited no knowing about it... |
| 19:32.25 | djszapi_ | you know about it and others will also be exploited people knowing this fact. |
| 19:32.29 | djszapi_ | so it is even worse. |
| 19:32.41 | djszapi_ | imho, the bare minimum is to disclose something after a release. |
| 19:32.51 | yipdw | pawky: I think one assumption you're making is that the vulnerable system is something that can be fixed in a short amount of time after disclosuer |
| 19:32.53 | djszapi_ | or even later, because the vendor can say: hey here is the solution |
| 19:32.55 | yipdw | disclosure, too |
| 19:32.58 | lizardo | pawky: in a mobile phone scenario, to avoid such exploits you should not install anything from the web, even ovi store :( This is even more critical if there is some bug with the browser, so you can get exploited simply by visiting a malicious page |
| 19:33.25 | pawky | djszapi_:no, you have the option to choose wether to continue using the device, and accept the risk or not to. |
| 19:34.20 | djszapi_ | imho, it would be wrong if the vendor says, here is the security hole, but we do not have anything to fix it |
| 19:34.24 | pawky | lizardo:true, and I do have an option when it comes to what I install. But if it's a bug in the OS, then I would at least know if it exists, so I can choose not to use the device i |
| 19:34.33 | djszapi_ | this is typically not how the Qt security development happens either. That happens as I say. |
| 19:34.58 | pawky | djszapi_: well freedom of choice is better than not having it... you know, a free world :-) |
| 19:35.14 | djszapi_ | the exploit freedom ? |
| 19:35.52 | djszapi_ | fyi, qt also has a private mailing list for security issue discussions, even it is a super open governance project |
| 19:36.18 | djszapi_ | and only invited members can join. They will disclose the stuff after the fix, probably not after the release since Qt releeases were unexpected in the past. |
| 19:36.27 | pawky | if we are at a bar, I belive you would prefer to know that the beer is on the house, rather than everybody else knowing it, but you who would go and pay for yours. maybe you still want to pay, but you have the freedom of choice.. |
| 19:36.36 | lizardo | pawky: what I meant is , you can trigger these exploits by installing apparently innocent applications... For instance .deb files have scripts that are called by simpling attempting to install the application, one can put the exploit code on them |
| 19:37.03 | lizardo | djszapi_: do they have bug bounties? :D |
| 19:37.17 | djszapi_ | of course. |
| 19:37.31 | pawky | lizardo:true, that's why it might be a good idea to only use trusted repositories having a valid key |
| 19:37.36 | djszapi_ | but not in a large number like google has. Imho, google pays the largest attention at it. |
| 19:37.51 | djszapi_ | pawky: if the trusted repository is realyl trusted, but atm it is not. |
| 19:39.32 | pawky | maybe one should open up a free market where people could sell their exploits to the highest bidder? :-) |
| 19:39.47 | yipdw | I'm pretty sure that already exists |
| 19:39.51 | pawky | that would probably stir up things.. |
| 19:39.58 | pawky | yes, but how about an official one :-D |
| 19:40.15 | pawky | maybe I should register exploitmarket.com :-) |
| 19:43.14 | djszapi_ | the problem is that, we are discussing a dead platform |
| 19:43.19 | pawky | it cant be an illegal thing to sell or buy exploits, as far as i know... :-) |
| 19:43.21 | djszapi_ | aegis is far from the designed system |
| 19:43.42 | djszapi_ | so even if many things were disclosed, it would not probably say anything news to us |
| 19:50.18 | djszapi_ | pawky: it can only be illegal if you have n950 with the signed contract. |
| 19:56.23 | DocScrutinizer | public announcement: NOBODY is going to threat anybody here in this channel, except the chanops and chan owner. If you got issues with somebody misbehaving you approach a chanop (after you found you were not able to settle the issue with your opponent in a mature reasonable manner). If somebody threats you or generally misbehaves, you APPROACH CHANOP! Everybody repeatedly ignoring these rules will receive usual IRC treatment |
| 19:56.52 | frals | who are the chanops btw? :D |
| 19:57.27 | DocScrutinizer | /msg chanserv access #harmattan list witll tell you |
| 19:57.57 | djszapi_ | pawky: btw, why was your phone handled in Hungary ? |
| 19:59.34 | pawky | djszapi_: thats where Nokia sends it.. |
| 20:00.19 | pawky | djszapi_:I believe your colleagues will be able to answer it a bit better than me.. ;-) |
| 20:00.22 | djszapi_ | Esztergom ? |
| 20:00.48 | pawky | djszapi_:Is that a city? |
| 20:00.51 | djszapi_ | collaegues do not work at 22:00 :P |
| 20:01.24 | pawky | djszapi_:maybe they should, then I wouldn't have to wait 3.5 weeks to get the same phone back.. ;-) |
| 20:01.46 | pawky | ah.. at least the reflash got me out of the boot loop... |
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| 20:04.32 | daniel_2 | oh no.. |
| 20:04.53 | daniel_2 | my n9 just did a spontanious reboot :( |
| 20:09.46 | pawky | daniel_2: Welcome to the club! :-D |
| 20:10.19 | daniel_2 | i tried to enable developer mode.. but sth is wrong :D |
| 20:10.55 | pawky | daniel_2: when I did that it went into an endless reboot loop, and finally now I have been able to reflash it to get it out of that state.. |
| 20:11.30 | daniel_2 | :D i'm really glad i've never had a reboot loop |
| 20:11.58 | pawky | daniel_2:drains your battery for sure... |
| 20:12.19 | daniel_2 | uuh.. after the reboot, the dev mode is working, weird.. |
| 20:12.27 | jabis | daniel_2: it's normal for when enabling developer mode for the phone to boot (it even warns you of this) |
| 20:12.57 | daniel_2 | i know, but it showed several error messages before :D |
| 20:13.11 | daniel_2 | so i didn't expact the regular reboot |
| 20:14.04 | jabis | it would throw errors if you were trying to use anything before the installation was succesfull & prior rebooting the phone |
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| 20:14.35 | daniel_2 | hmm no i did nothing.. but it was really weird |
| 20:14.48 | daniel_2 | the usual way, just go to settings and enable dev mode, didn't work |
| 20:15.33 | daniel_2 | always " install interrupt" so i did some research and found in the chan logs, some hints, about installing some packages manually "develsh, openssh and meego-terminal" |
| 20:16.37 | jabis | so you had a broken package/other dependency issue before enabling developer mode, would throw errors too in that case |
| 20:16.40 | daniel_2 | so i tried, but openssh package was also not able to install.. than i tried to enable dev mode again, it said, install is corrupt, it will not work, or sth like that, i had to press ok and then it rebooted |
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| 20:17.06 | jabis | so it was an expected reboot after all x) |
| 20:17.32 | daniel_2 | xD seems like that :D it's working fine now, so i don't mind |
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| 20:28.39 | pawky | using ssh, as which user am i to log in? |
| 20:28.47 | pawky | user, devel-su, root? |
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| 20:30.56 | jonni | pawky: username: developer |
| 20:31.06 | pawky | the only one i didnt try... |
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| 20:41.32 | daniel_2 | is it possible to manually reinitialize the auto-contacts merging? |
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| 20:55.59 | pawky | The Nokia N9 is really the best phone in the world, when it works... :-D |
| 20:58.16 | pawky | ... in my humble oppinion.... |
| 20:58.45 | daniel_2 | signed/ |
| 20:58.47 | leinir | even when it doesn't work it's better than other phones when /they/ don't work ;) |
| 20:59.02 | leinir | ...because then, while the others look like poop, the N9 is still really pretty ;) |
| 20:59.12 | pawky | leinir: yeah, its good to look at as well, when being a brick.. ;-) |
| 20:59.33 | daniel_2 | :D |
| 20:59.43 | yipdw | how long have you two had your N9s? |
| 20:59.43 | leinir | Not happened to me yet, mind you, but it /does/ look super-pretty, so *giggles* :) |
| 20:59.48 | yipdw | mine arrived a week ago, hasn't blown up |
| 20:59.51 | leinir | since DevDays in Munich :) |
| 20:59.58 | leinir | been smooth sailing :) |
| 20:59.59 | pawky | yipdw: shortly enought to still admire it :-D |
| 21:00.16 | yipdw | I'm just wondering about age, so that I can have some idea of when I might expect issues |
| 21:00.21 | daniel_2 | 23.11 |
| 21:00.30 | yipdw | my N900 worked fine for a year until the screen shattered |
| 21:00.40 | yipdw | obviously not a hardware fault there :P |
| 21:00.42 | pawky | yipd: 1st day = trouble |
| 21:00.48 | yipdw | oh ok |
| 21:00.57 | pawky | yipdw: first day back from repair = trouble |
| 21:01.37 | yipdw | I guess you just got a lemon |
| 21:01.54 | pawky | yipdw: pretty old one then, as it is black by now... |
| 21:02.04 | yipdw | heh |
| 21:02.56 | Tronic | It is easy to forget that other phones have their issues too. My brother has the telephone app randomly crashing on his SGS and he will only notice that afterwards because there is no indication of incoming calls nor of the app being dead. |
| 21:02.59 | pawky | thought of trying some coreageous restoring on this unit... did all backups end up in /home/user/.backup ? |
| 21:03.30 | yipdw | Tronic: oh, I agree. I've got a 4th-generation iPod touch and ever since the iOS 5 update, the thing has been crapping out |
| 21:03.36 | pawky | Tronic: yeah, reboots and issues just gives it character :-) |
| 21:05.26 | djszapi | yes, this phone evolved a lot in comparison with 1 year ago :) |
| 21:06.02 | pawky | anyone having any suggestion where to put the backup files created with the phone before I sent it away? I forgot where they came from |
| 21:06.27 | pawky | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:26.07 | djszapi | X-Fade: the dependency issue between the repositories are not because of the source origin since we use apt-get and that is vanilla upstream. |
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| 23:12.57 | vadimq | is it possible to set up key based ssh access to the user account? Works with the developer one, but doesn't seem to be working for user |
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| 23:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | you need a password to make keys work (paradox, yes) |
| 23:16.53 | vadimq | need a password? |
| 23:19.44 | vadimq | here's what I'm up to: I found about the xclip commandline tool, which allows to manipulate the clipboard. That's awesome, now I can get text easier to the n9. The next idea is have a little program to ssh in and open a new tab in fennec, but I figure that has to run as "user". As developer I seem to get a new window |
| 23:21.40 | DocScrutinizer | develsh |
| 23:21.47 | DocScrutinizer | passwd user |
| 23:21.58 | DocScrutinizer | xyz |
| 23:22.01 | DocScrutinizer | xyz |
| 23:22.03 | DocScrutinizer | done |
| 23:22.39 | vadimq | no, I want to log in with a ssh key. The ones that go in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys2 |
| 23:22.47 | DocScrutinizer | the install your pubkey to ~user/.ssh/ |
| 23:22.51 | DocScrutinizer | then* |
| 23:23.05 | DocScrutinizer | and forget about the 2 at end |
| 23:23.18 | DocScrutinizer | but you need a password set to make ssh work |
| 23:23.42 | vadimq | weird. But keys bypass passwords anyway. |
| 23:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 23:24.04 | DocScrutinizer | but sshd refuses to log in to accounts that have empty password |
| 23:24.16 | vadimq | odd. Ahh, ok, thanks :-) |
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