| 00:32.48 | *** join/#harmattan stroughtonsmith (~steven@64.0.233.114.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 00:33.14 | artemma | just got news that N9 is on sale in USA |
| 00:33.21 | artemma | without any carrier support though |
| 00:35.23 | ieatlint | oh? |
| 00:35.38 | artemma | RT @tomiahonen: suddenly the #N9 is actually for sale in the USA - but no carrier contracts, no subsidies, costs $690.. |
| 00:35.39 | ieatlint | distributed to the US, or a US retailer imported a case themselves? |
| 00:42.40 | ieatlint | i had a good experience here in the states getting a microsd card |
| 00:43.05 | ieatlint | they assumed i had an iphone |
| 00:43.21 | ieatlint | were then very interested when they saw the n9 |
| 00:43.34 | DocScrutinizer | means they charged you premium :-P |
| 00:44.04 | ieatlint | waived the fee :P |
| 00:44.11 | ieatlint | normally $20 though |
| 00:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | anyway seems the concept of SIM isn't really common knowledge in USA. I couldn't say how else you see people using disposable mobile phones in CSI and other TV crap |
| 00:47.13 | ieatlint | varies... since LTE uses a SIM, pretty much everyone deals with them now |
| 00:50.53 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 00:51.04 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 00:51.12 | DocScrutinizer | anyway now I feel like "toldya" once more, why should Nokia forbid selling of N9 in USA? gosh was that a whining when the USA Nokia webshop didn't announce any sales start date, and I always claimed there's bo use in building a phone with octaband or what it was, other than using it in USA with their lunatic carriers and bands |
| 00:51.45 | DocScrutinizer | s/ bo/ no |
| 00:55.04 | DocScrutinizer | another anyway: "no carrier support" sounds to me like US wholesale mentality. "No subsidized devices" is more like it |
| 00:56.06 | ieatlint | it's not a lunatic carrier issue |
| 00:56.13 | ieatlint | our carriers are just as retarded as yours |
| 00:56.23 | ieatlint | the bands were just used already |
| 00:56.34 | DocScrutinizer | hell that was a bummer when not even this omniband device supported USA carriers' bands |
| 00:56.55 | ieatlint | i laugh that the lumia phones don't support all the US bands |
| 00:57.07 | ieatlint | "oh no, i can't use the latest nokia winphone :(" |
| 00:57.32 | DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: not really, running UMTS on a band clearly defined as GSM-only... *erhm*Ü |
| 00:57.48 | ieatlint | well, that's ATT |
| 00:57.56 | ieatlint | they're just like that |
| 00:58.04 | ieatlint | my carrier does 1700/2100 |
| 00:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | which is all sane for 3G |
| 00:58.54 | DocScrutinizer | but don't tell me 850 was "occupied" so they "had to use UMTS on that freq" |
| 01:00.04 | ieatlint | 850 was used for GSM at one point |
| 01:00.15 | ieatlint | but they stopped it to reuse it, since it was the only bands they had |
| 01:00.58 | DocScrutinizer | I *might* accept there were real reasons for 850/1900 in USA (though I don't buy the military story). But with abusing bands for 3G that were 2G worldwide, no no no |
| 01:01.59 | ieatlint | 1900 is still gsm i think |
| 01:02.55 | DocScrutinizer | which is especially insane as 3G cell size is smaller per definitionem, so they better had abused the 1900 band rather than 850 |
| 01:04.05 | ieatlint | sounds like you should visit ATT and teach those guys a lesson about european standardization |
| 01:04.09 | ieatlint | tell them about metric too |
| 01:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | LOL about devel.nokia.com - sends cookies with expiration date 1969-12-31 23:00 |
| 01:06.56 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart ATT, with a 0.01AWG branded wire |
| 01:06.56 | infobot | pours gasoline all over ATT, with a 0.01AWG branded wire, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 01:15.12 | DocScrutinizer | well, there's a link that leaves nothing to add for a comment |
| 01:16.55 | DocScrutinizer | http://maps.mobileworldlive.com/network.php?cid=280&cname=United States |
| 01:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | compare e.g. http://maps.mobileworldlive.com/network.php?cid=133&cname=Germany ;-P |
| 01:21.08 | DocScrutinizer | the difference? other than the FCC the germen authorities sold bands nationwide, not per region/district/village |
| 01:25.43 | DocScrutinizer | N9: Frequency Bands GSM 1800 GSM 1900 GSM 850 GSM 900 WCDMA Band I (2100) WCDMA Band II (1900) WCDMA Band IV (1700/2100) WCDMA Band V (850) WCDMA Band VIII (900) |
| 01:25.58 | Mek | hmm, I guess nobody here knows how to flash an image to an n950 that is older than what is currently on it? (i.e. get around the downgrade disallowed security check?) |
| 01:26.59 | DocScrutinizer | it's mere impossible |
| 01:27.07 | DocScrutinizer | for mere mortals |
| 01:27.40 | Mek | damn... |
| 01:28.58 | SpeedEvil | Many know how. |
| 01:29.04 | SpeedEvil | We just lack the certs to do so. |
| 01:30.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | my laptop acts up on ethernet |
| 01:31.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 01:31.14 | infobot | ~pong |
| 01:33.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | rather, the bastards are doing an unscheduled downtime on my DSLAM |
| 01:39.46 | *** join/#harmattan Smtih (~degtep@93.88.184.12) |
| 01:43.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 01:43.26 | infobot | ~pong |
| 01:43.40 | GeneralAntilles | yawns. |
| 01:43.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | moo gan |
| 01:43.54 | GeneralAntilles | Hey-oh |
| 01:44.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | humm |
| 01:44.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | yay |
| 01:45.21 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 01:45.49 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 01:46.03 | GeneralAntilles | The 24 hours of Call of Duty charity event got taken down with a DMCA violation. |
| 01:46.17 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 01:46.25 | GeneralAntilles | Activision is such a scumbag company. |
| 01:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | That'S what we call "making friends" |
| 01:47.32 | DocScrutinizer | or even pretty good PR |
| 01:48.36 | DocScrutinizer | forget friggin charity, you should save all your money to pay for our decoders |
| 01:49.59 | DocScrutinizer | games actually |
| 01:53.59 | DocScrutinizer | wonders when EA sports will take down the champions league |
| 01:54.51 | *** join/#harmattan stroughtonsmith (~steven@64.0.233.114.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:55.07 | DocScrutinizer | similarly reasonable claim - "we have a game of that name" |
| 02:05.11 | DocScrutinizer | https://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9/ Regional Availability Global |
| 02:05.48 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, if they say so. |
| 02:15.48 | DocScrutinizer | hooray, Nokia website reproducably kills my konqueror |
| 02:24.01 | GeneralAntilles | chuckles at thriving entrepreneurship at OWS. |
| 02:30.59 | ieatlint | i'll take OWS seriously when they display basic intelligence, and two different people from the movement can give me similar answers as to what they're protesting |
| 02:33.03 | GeneralAntilles | I think it's just cathartic for most involved. |
| 02:33.06 | GeneralAntilles | Aside from the union assholes. |
| 02:33.34 | ieatlint | true enough |
| 02:33.38 | GeneralAntilles | I find it funny that they're protesting against crony capitalism and bank bailouts, but seem to be for student loan bailouts. |
| 02:34.23 | SpeedEvil | in some ways I'd be in favour, for people with real degrees. |
| 02:34.46 | GeneralAntilles | People with real degrees usually don't need it |
| 02:34.50 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 02:34.56 | GeneralAntilles | because they didn't spend $200k on a degree in Peace Studies. |
| 02:35.11 | SpeedEvil | Social work - for someone actually doing low-paid social work say. |
| 02:35.36 | GeneralAntilles | See, here's the problem though |
| 02:35.39 | GeneralAntilles | Incentive matters |
| 02:35.43 | SpeedEvil | And yes, I know. |
| 02:35.57 | SpeedEvil | Which is why I said 'in some ways'. |
| 02:35.57 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah |
| 02:35.57 | SpeedEvil | moral hazard and all that shizzle. |
| 02:36.10 | GeneralAntilles | The unlimited funds available have been a large part of what's driven up the prices of degrees. |
| 02:36.27 | SpeedEvil | Similarly with health. |
| 02:36.31 | ieatlint | they need to realize they were supposed to pick a viable career path |
| 02:36.36 | Tronic | I've only been following by Google+ posts but it seems pretty clear that they are protesting against corporations (owned by the 1 %) having too much lobbying power, i.e. there being no true democracy. Everything else follows as a consequence of that. |
| 02:36.44 | GeneralAntilles | Well, they can get a degree in whatever they want |
| 02:36.46 | ieatlint | because i don't see many protesters down there with MBAs and computer science degrees |
| 02:36.54 | GeneralAntilles | but making unlimited funds available for useless career paths isn't productive |
| 02:37.02 | SpeedEvil | Government is _way_ too willing to listen to lobbying. |
| 02:37.12 | SpeedEvil | Rather than getting sane opinion on subjects. |
| 02:37.14 | ieatlint | Tronic: they all seem to give that message, but they then list off several more at random |
| 02:37.18 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, personally, I'd argue government has way too much power. ;) |
| 02:37.25 | GeneralAntilles | and thus lobbying is way too effective. |
| 02:37.30 | ieatlint | Tronic: and they are just angry about it, they don't propose any sort of solution |
| 02:37.31 | GeneralAntilles | Incentive still matters. |
| 02:37.41 | Tronic | What I do wonder is where does this "no clear message" nonsense comes from. |
| 02:37.50 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, sure there's true democracy. |
| 02:37.57 | GeneralAntilles | They voted for Obama. |
| 02:38.19 | Tronic | Go to *any* demonstration and you will find signs that seem off the point. OWS seems far more consistent in message than your average demonstrations do. |
| 02:38.31 | ieatlint | Tronic: where are you? |
| 02:38.33 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, until you start talking to demonstrators. :P |
| 02:38.43 | Tronic | ieatlint: Finland. |
| 02:38.49 | SpeedEvil | UK government is currently pissing me off by lots of stories about 'benefit cheats' - and releasing stats about 'fraud (and in a subscript) and error' |
| 02:38.51 | ieatlint | how many OWS protesters you have there? |
| 02:39.10 | ieatlint | because i'm traveling between san francisco and oakland, and i see homeless encampments |
| 02:39.14 | Tronic | ieatlint: A handful but I have no idea what they do. As I said, I've been following this via Google+. |
| 02:39.18 | SpeedEvil | The clear implication is that fraud is rife - this has been picked up by lots of tabloid newspapers and TV. |
| 02:39.32 | SpeedEvil | But official stats make it clear that error is the huger slice. |
| 02:40.11 | SpeedEvil | And payments due to errors by claimants are only 50% more that than errors due to highly trained staff. |
| 02:40.22 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 02:40.35 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, fraud is a pretty sizable problem with the welfare system here. |
| 02:40.39 | GeneralAntilles | But the bigger problem is incentive. |
| 02:40.48 | SpeedEvil | Same here. |
| 02:40.50 | GeneralAntilles | The system incentivizes all of the wrong things. |
| 02:40.55 | SpeedEvil | I'm currently on disability benefits. |
| 02:41.14 | SpeedEvil | I'm trying to get approval to so small amounts of work at irregular intervals as my health permits. |
| 02:41.30 | SpeedEvil | - maybe 3-4 hours a week of design work self employed. |
| 02:41.41 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, how bad is working from home for you? |
| 02:41.48 | SpeedEvil | There is _no_ help for how to go the self employment route. |
| 02:41.50 | GeneralAntilles | (if it's not too prying) |
| 02:42.00 | SpeedEvil | And it's all geared to minimum wage. |
| 02:42.04 | SpeedEvil | Basically: |
| 02:42.38 | GeneralAntilles | Well, that's government bureaucracy. |
| 02:42.48 | Tronic | ieatlint: Finland already has very strong social security and also the division of wealth is not that much screwed here, so I guess that is a reason why the movement is rather minor here. |
| 02:43.04 | SpeedEvil | I get extremely tired when concentrating for extended periods, or doing any task that involves doing something for more than 20 minutes or so, and have to rest. And much of the time am feeling like head is packed with cotton wool. |
| 02:43.10 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, wealth isn't a zero-sum game. |
| 02:43.10 | SpeedEvil | Hence progress is difficult. |
| 02:43.21 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Quite true. |
| 02:43.27 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, sounds awful. |
| 02:43.38 | *** join/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 02:43.46 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, if the government would quit stealing Peter to pay Paul the GM Executive. . . . |
| 02:43.46 | ieatlint | Tronic: if they had a concise message, i'd be more supportive |
| 02:43.56 | ieatlint | but they've pigeonholed themselves into radical status |
| 02:43.58 | strannik1 | Hello |
| 02:44.06 | ieatlint | and i also dislike movements that decide they represent me |
| 02:44.17 | SpeedEvil | Not fun. Having to concentrate on benefits, and spending much of my potentially productive time reading caselaw, and 'decision makers guides' - is not helping either. |
| 02:44.21 | GeneralAntilles | ieatlint, yeah, I hate that. |
| 02:44.33 | SpeedEvil | Greenpeace are especially good at that. |
| 02:44.33 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: I could otherwise understand left wing politics but what I cannot agree is trying to punish the rich "because it serves them right" rather than try and improve the society as a whole. |
| 02:44.49 | ieatlint | the last time i recall someone telling me they were doing a big political thing for me, we invaded iraq |
| 02:44.54 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, that's a large part of the reason I'm in favor of private charities over government. |
| 02:44.56 | ieatlint | so yeah.. |
| 02:44.56 | SpeedEvil | is depressed again at the whole glowing Japan thing. |
| 02:45.13 | ieatlint | i'm off for food |
| 02:45.22 | SpeedEvil | just as nukes looked plausible to start building again, it's discounted on the basis of 50yo designs. |
| 02:45.40 | SpeedEvil | And private charities don't always work so well. |
| 02:45.48 | SpeedEvil | It works great for kiddies with lukemia. |
| 02:45.54 | SpeedEvil | They are sexy. |
| 02:46.00 | strannik1 | This sounds interesting .. Whats the debate? |
| 02:46.19 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, it's a sad setback for what's mostly a clean and safely (and incredibly effective) energy system. |
| 02:46.20 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't work nearly so well for some other groups. |
| 02:46.28 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, whatever my drunk ass feels like tossing in here. |
| 02:46.36 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, no, I don't disagree. |
| 02:46.39 | strannik1 | :) haha awesome |
| 02:46.57 | GeneralAntilles | But at least the incentive tends towards a positive direction rather than a bureaucratic one. |
| 02:47.17 | SpeedEvil | Guide-dogs-for-the-blind, for example, in the UK recently spent $30M on a custom dogbreeding facility involving hydrotherapy pools for the doggies. |
| 02:47.34 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: I do think that strong social security (I'd prefer basic income) and free education are good things for the society as a whole but harder taxes on the rich won't really have much effect on the public economy, therefore it is merely punishing the rich, not helping the society. |
| 02:47.34 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, started with complaining about OWS hypocrisy and inconsistency, throw in a little bit about bureaucratic welfare inefficiency and waste, and top if off with some nuclear energy depression. |
| 02:47.55 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, so, my issue there is that incentive still matters. |
| 02:48.08 | M4rtinK | well, there is a 2 block (about 2000 GW-E) upgrade planed in Czech Republic :) |
| 02:48.10 | GeneralAntilles | and government doesn't do anything efficiently. |
| 02:48.38 | M4rtinK | seen that powerplant this summer, its pretty monumental even now :) |
| 02:48.39 | strannik1 | I say screw socialism. Capitalism is the way to go |
| 02:48.44 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, does free education include degrees in useless shit? |
| 02:48.57 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, does it have any controls on price inflation in education? |
| 02:49.07 | strannik1 | Education should be available to everyone though |
| 02:49.18 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, I suspect a large core of the origin of OWS in the US is the insane education bubble over the last 20 years. |
| 02:49.19 | SpeedEvil | The UK recently raised the compulsory education age from 16-18 |
| 02:49.30 | GeneralAntilles | largely brought on by unlimited monies available for student loans. |
| 02:49.37 | SpeedEvil | And has recently had an aim of putting 50% of people into university. |
| 02:49.41 | strannik1 | But the uk increased uni fees 3x |
| 02:49.42 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, I agree, but what form does that education take? |
| 02:49.44 | SpeedEvil | Which... |
| 02:49.44 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: There should be reasonable limits on the number of students accepted to each degree, eliminating most of those "useless degrees". |
| 02:50.07 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: The point about education being free is that the students get chosen by entrance exams or similar means, not by wealth. |
| 02:50.09 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, some people aren't well served by pursuing a university degree. |
| 02:50.09 | SpeedEvil | strannik1: It's not quite that simple. |
| 02:50.24 | SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Or indeed continuing education from 16-18 |
| 02:50.29 | strannik1 | The uni fees? Or education for everyone? |
| 02:50.42 | SpeedEvil | strannik1: many people will not pay back their loans, they are written off. |
| 02:51.00 | SpeedEvil | strannik1: And if you don't end up earning 'reasonably' - you don't have to pay anything. |
| 02:51.08 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, well, are we talking mandatory public education or a reasonable sum of money attached to each student that their parent's can decide where to spend. |
| 02:51.30 | SpeedEvil | Parents can make really, really bad decisions. |
| 02:51.40 | strannik1 | Yea true |
| 02:51.44 | GeneralAntilles | is very happy to be off cold medicine and onto alcohol (just for tonight, though) |
| 02:51.47 | Tronic | Being a supporter of (mostly) free market economy, I do think that private schools should be permitted, of course. If someone is willing to pay their own expenses, then why not... |
| 02:52.08 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, what about vouchers (attaching money to the student to take where they please)? |
| 02:52.18 | strannik1 | Yea i was about to say |
| 02:52.38 | SpeedEvil | And how does it work for home-schooling? |
| 02:53.17 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Depending on the limitations of the voucher, it is pretty much the same thing I'd prefer (i.e. any institution can get the public funding instead of having to be state-driven). |
| 02:53.34 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, sure, anybody can make really bad decisions. |
| 02:53.37 | GeneralAntilles | But that's part of life |
| 02:53.59 | GeneralAntilles | Trying to have the government protect everybody from any bad decisions they might make ends up hurting more than it helps. |
| 02:54.21 | SpeedEvil | In some areas. |
| 02:54.53 | SpeedEvil | Trying to encourage local industry, and decrease flows of capital out of the country may be positive. |
| 02:55.09 | strannik1 | SpeedEvil: this whole student loan thing cant be an answer to students problems.. Apparently next year there will be 20-25% less people going to uni |
| 02:55.16 | GeneralAntilles | The whole "locally made is better" thing is sort of a fallacy. |
| 02:55.17 | SpeedEvil | And individuals don't do that. |
| 02:55.23 | SpeedEvil | And not 'locally made is better'. |
| 02:55.32 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, trade imbalances? |
| 02:55.37 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 02:55.52 | SpeedEvil | The current model of trade in the 'west' is scary. |
| 02:55.53 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's an interesting problem. |
| 02:56.03 | SpeedEvil | Apple is not a manufacturing company. |
| 02:56.15 | strannik1 | Apple is a fruit! |
| 02:56.16 | SpeedEvil | They're a company that sticks labels on boxes made inchina. |
| 02:56.19 | strannik1 | :) |
| 02:56.26 | SpeedEvil | All the profit stays in the US. (pretty much). |
| 02:56.57 | SpeedEvil | There is no technical reason why chinese OEMs can't bite real hard into this, and similar markets, making all the stuff in china, but keeping all the profit in china. |
| 02:57.16 | SpeedEvil | At this point, the balance of trade goes _really_ into the crapper. |
| 02:57.42 | strannik1 | Are you saying it should be fairer? |
| 02:57.50 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 02:57.56 | SpeedEvil | I'm saying that we're fucked. |
| 02:58.03 | GeneralAntilles | Trade deficits are sort of misleading, though. |
| 02:58.09 | strannik1 | We as the western world? |
| 02:58.39 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, hypothetically they could |
| 02:58.43 | GeneralAntilles | but is it actually in their best interest? |
| 02:58.52 | GeneralAntilles | I mean, the money obviously comes back for a reason. |
| 02:58.58 | SpeedEvil | When the chinese brands start rising in the west, and US branded sales (or UK or western) drop, the balance of trade gets nasty. |
| 02:59.00 | GeneralAntilles | Rational self-interest and all that is a powerful thing. |
| 02:59.10 | SpeedEvil | And US purchasing power drops a lot. |
| 02:59.35 | SpeedEvil | We're at the moment living off investments made by our grandfathers and great grandfathers. |
| 02:59.41 | Tronic | University students here get up to 470 €/month social security but most people still end up working part-time for extra income, causing the studies to be delayed (instead of the five-year nominal length, Bachelor+Masters takes more than seven years by median and quite often more than 10 years). |
| 03:00.09 | SpeedEvil | In really good infrastructure, food safety, and a large number of other things that made an efficient workforce. |
| 03:00.24 | strannik1 | Tronic: which country is this? |
| 03:00.28 | Tronic | strannik1: Finland. |
| 03:00.41 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, I know plenty of people who completed their studies in 4 years working 20-40 hours a week. |
| 03:00.53 | Tronic | Oddly enough, the unemployed get (depending on various things) around 800 €/month. |
| 03:01.01 | berndhs | trade deficits in the short term mean someone isn't getting paid for their production |
| 03:01.14 | SpeedEvil | But China (and the rest of the world) are catching up. |
| 03:01.34 | SpeedEvil | berndhs: Not quite. They mean they're not getting paid equally on each side of the planet. |
| 03:02.09 | berndhs | they are getting paid by promises to get paid later, which doesn't always happen |
| 03:02.14 | Tronic | How are the social security benefits in USA, BTW? |
| 03:02.21 | SpeedEvil | But local payment rates may be much lower in one place. |
| 03:02.26 | SpeedEvil | making it 'OK' for a while. |
| 03:02.45 | strannik1 | It really worries me how socialism is discussed so much in general at the moment... I spoke to a spanish guy (about socialism). I never knew people in europe existed who want what sounds to me |
| 03:02.48 | strannik1 | Like communism |
| 03:03.08 | SpeedEvil | This is one reason why I'm so in favour of nuclear. Competing with the rising chinese middle class for energy 20-40 years out is a _scary_ prospect. |
| 03:03.27 | SpeedEvil | Which is why we need to get off fossil fuel fast. |
| 03:03.28 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, Europe appears to be largely all about that these days. :P |
| 03:03.46 | Tronic | strannik1: The left wing politics are on the rise now, quite possibly due to the depression since 2008. |
| 03:03.47 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, out of interest, where are you located? |
| 03:03.56 | strannik1 | I study in the uk |
| 03:04.01 | strannik1 | But i live in germany |
| 03:04.11 | strannik1 | But i am actually russian |
| 03:04.23 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, sounds like a lot of traveling. |
| 03:04.30 | Tronic | strannik1: Also they are now getting a lot of media attention, something that I haven't noticed happening before. |
| 03:04.42 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: Uranium also is fossil |
| 03:04.52 | strannik1 | It feels like having left socialist russia . For socialist europe |
| 03:05.06 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Well - yes. But it - and thorium - aren't likely to run out soon. |
| 03:05.16 | SpeedEvil | Then there is fusion. |
| 03:05.25 | DocScrutinizer | while solar clearly isn't, as are wind power mills |
| 03:05.43 | SpeedEvil | Solar is in some ways a distraction without massive amounts of energy storage. |
| 03:05.44 | strannik1 | I think it must have been better in europe in the 70s because there was fear of socialism/communism... Now there is no fear . And europe can slip right into it by accident |
| 03:05.55 | berndhs | thorium would buy use a few hundred years to get past these issues |
| 03:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (not likely to run out) are you sure about your data on that ? |
| 03:06.04 | Tronic | Uranium is not a fossil fuel by definition. |
| 03:06.06 | SpeedEvil | What happens in greece will be illuminating. |
| 03:06.13 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, it's the romance of the 60s hippie movement (at least with OWS). |
| 03:06.33 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: The exploitable reserves of uranium are quite high. Thorium even higher. |
| 03:06.36 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, well, the US is still a little better (for now). |
| 03:07.03 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I heard different |
| 03:07.21 | SpeedEvil | What is currently available in existing mines is fairly low. |
| 03:07.27 | SpeedEvil | This is because the uranium price crashed. |
| 03:07.31 | strannik1 | Yea the us sounds like one of the only countries really fighting for democracy, capitalism etc |
| 03:07.41 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: according to some scenarios fission fuel may each peak before oil does |
| 03:08.07 | DocScrutinizer | reach* |
| 03:08.20 | berndhs | DocScrutinizer: I remember those scenarios from when I was a child, we're running out in about 1980 |
| 03:08.20 | SpeedEvil | That can only be assuming existing mines only. |
| 03:08.27 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, that tradition seems to be going away thanks to the overwhelming success of public education, but we're still better off the most of the rest of the planet. |
| 03:09.02 | GeneralAntilles | There's a crazy amount of opposition to using any of the huge oil reserves in North America. |
| 03:09.11 | strannik1 | Nuclear power isnt bad as long it is properly controlled . If the facilities are regularly maintained its not a problem |
| 03:09.12 | GeneralAntilles | For some reason people would rather give money to Iran and Saudi Arabia. |
| 03:10.09 | SpeedEvil | Paradoxically, if I was Iran, or Saudi, I would actually be investing in nuclear power. |
| 03:10.21 | Tronic | DocScrutinizer: There is plenty of uranium for centuries to come and it is a rather common mineral in Earth crust. Even the existing deposits will take us so far that it simply isn't profitable to look for new ones. |
| 03:10.36 | SpeedEvil | And superconducting power infrastructure, to be able to supply power when the oil runs out. |
| 03:10.39 | GeneralAntilles | Yeah, the Israelis aren't making that easy, though. |
| 03:10.55 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - the politics of the area is fun. |
| 03:10.55 | Tronic | DocScrutinizer: Also, fast breeder reactors can use the current "nuclear waste" as fuel, greatly increasing the amount of available energy. |
| 03:10.59 | strannik1 | GeneralAntilles: thanks to public education? Surely public education includes history lessons that teach how socialism brought down the soviet union in the end .. Which is what .. 20 years ago |
| 03:11.09 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, not really. |
| 03:11.25 | GeneralAntilles | Public education is about teaching learning, not teaching reasoning. |
| 03:11.43 | GeneralAntilles | and most of the public employees hold socialist views. |
| 03:11.47 | Tronic | Thorium is also an option but it hasn't been investigated because there is no shortage of uranium. |
| 03:12.43 | berndhs | i thought thorium was actually better than uranium, less readiactive waste, down side is you can't make bombs from it |
| 03:12.49 | DocScrutinizer | actually there's been a Thorium reactor in Germany, for some weeks or months :-P |
| 03:13.13 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, the history texts characterize it as Stalinism bringing down the Soviet Union (which is a form of communism, which isn't related to socialism at all, etc.) |
| 03:14.17 | strannik1 | GeneralAntilles: my argument is this... True socialism is great .. Lets start sending all our wealth to africe . Because the labour class doesnt realize that they are actually the rich being in the top20% of the wealthiest people on earth |
| 03:14.19 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, the history texts don't actually tell you that 3000+ civilians were murdered in the Tiananmen Square protests. |
| 03:14.20 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, I hate all fission processes for the decay products |
| 03:15.17 | strannik1 | GeneralAntilles: well i find it funny how people in europe dont know that the soviet union never had communism.. Instead it was socialism |
| 03:15.25 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, yeah, the US Census Bureau is trying redefine the poverty line to be about at about 2,200 USD higher than it was. |
| 03:15.39 | GeneralAntilles | ~$22k to ~$24k for a family of four. |
| 03:15.43 | Tronic | berndhs: It is hard to tell, as pretty much the only material you can get on it these days is by pro-Thorium lobbyists. |
| 03:16.08 | GeneralAntilles | Of course that family of four usually has an HDTV and cable. |
| 03:16.16 | strannik1 | Haha :) |
| 03:16.46 | strannik1 | 80% of the world makes about 10 dollars a day i think |
| 03:16.48 | Tronic | berndhs: That sort of material is probably correct about the benefits but it is also likely to ignore any disadvantages there might be. |
| 03:16.56 | strannik1 | 50% make about 5 dollars a day |
| 03:17.12 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, most of my primarily-self-supporting college-student friends would qualify for Federal food stamps. |
| 03:17.30 | strannik1 | Hahaha XD |
| 03:17.38 | strannik1 | Well i would too |
| 03:17.48 | SpeedEvil | Income can be misleading in the face of high living costs. |
| 03:17.55 | GeneralAntilles | Largely that's because of the insane expansion of the program under the Obama administration. |
| 03:18.07 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, true, but you don't live in the SF Bay Area making $24k. |
| 03:18.20 | GeneralAntilles | There are lots and lots of cheap places to live in the US. |
| 03:18.29 | GeneralAntilles | We have plenty of empty square-footage. |
| 03:18.34 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 03:18.55 | SpeedEvil | Problem then becomes where are the jobs for those that'd have to move? |
| 03:19.06 | GeneralAntilles | But, my issue isn't so much with what people want to define poverty as as how they seem to want to "address" it. |
| 03:19.41 | SpeedEvil | The most broken aspect of the UK for lower earners is houses. |
| 03:19.50 | SpeedEvil | We haven't been building significant numbers. |
| 03:19.59 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, well, that's why I'd argue you don't want crushing, burdensome government parasitism and regulation impeding commerce. |
| 03:20.00 | strannik1 | SpeedEvil: in socialist soviet union the jobs, demand and supply was created by the government .. When it collapsed people were confused on how to get a job |
| 03:20.02 | Tronic | It'll be interesting to see if the housing crisis hits Finland at some point. I paid 235 k€ for an apartment in 2010 and the prices still keep rising despite the depression. |
| 03:20.08 | SpeedEvil | And people have been splitting up and living in lower family sizes. |
| 03:20.28 | SpeedEvil | meaning that the average 'first time buyer' without parental support is approaching 40. |
| 03:20.34 | strannik1 | SpeedEvil: if someone moves to a new area .. Surely jobs can be created |
| 03:20.35 | Tronic | I hear that apartments here are more expensive than in Manhattan. |
| 03:20.49 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, the core of the real estate burst here was the insane amounts of near-unlimited no-questions-asked credit put out at the behest of Congress. |
| 03:21.04 | strannik1 | SpeedEvil: i mean by the very same people who move |
| 03:21.27 | GeneralAntilles | Demand creates commerce. |
| 03:21.33 | GeneralAntilles | As long as the government can stay out of the way. |
| 03:22.59 | strannik1 | Yea screw goverment intervention |
| 03:23.10 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Btw, did you watch the movie about that? Too Big to Fail (2011) |
| 03:23.22 | Tronic | One of the better movies this year. |
| 03:23.40 | strannik1 | I think the whole perception of government systems is screwed anyway |
| 03:24.13 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, haven't seen it. |
| 03:24.36 | GeneralAntilles | I despise most of the big-name characters listed. |
| 03:24.53 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, "too big to fail" is a result of government meddling |
| 03:25.12 | strannik1 | Whats government meddling? |
| 03:25.58 | GeneralAntilles | That banks, insurance companies, airlines and car manufacturers are supposedly "too big to fail". |
| 03:26.23 | strannik1 | Dunno , i think thats bullshit |
| 03:26.26 | GeneralAntilles | It's part politics and part the creation of monopolistic type companies via government barriers to commerce. |
| 03:26.31 | strannik1 | The bigger you are the harder the fall |
| 03:26.34 | GeneralAntilles | s/politics/bullshit |
| 03:26.58 | strannik1 | The bigger the investment the greater the loss if it fails |
| 03:27.04 | SpeedEvil | Sometimes monopolies emerge. |
| 03:27.13 | SpeedEvil | not due to governmental action. |
| 03:27.16 | SpeedEvil | For example, ebay. |
| 03:27.29 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, it's true. |
| 03:27.47 | GeneralAntilles | But eBay's success is essentially dependent on its ability to serve its customers. |
| 03:27.51 | berndhs | ebay, railroads, oil companies, regional transportation,... |
| 03:27.57 | SpeedEvil | Though a faiiilure of ebay would probably not be a cataclysmic event. |
| 03:28.08 | GeneralAntilles | If eBay stopped doing that somebody else would step up to do business. |
| 03:28.15 | GeneralAntilles | But eBay doesn't /really/ have a monopoly |
| 03:28.27 | SpeedEvil | it has a functional monopoly due to network effects. |
| 03:28.29 | GeneralAntilles | Craigslist being a big competitor |
| 03:28.35 | SpeedEvil | in some places. |
| 03:28.41 | DocScrutinizer | never heard of it |
| 03:28.42 | SpeedEvil | Not, for example, in the uk. |
| 03:28.44 | berndhs | the railroads were effectively monopolies for large regions |
| 03:28.45 | strannik1 | We can say its monopolistic |
| 03:28.49 | GeneralAntilles | berndhs, infrastructure is slightly more complicated. |
| 03:28.56 | GeneralAntilles | berndhs, that was largely government interference. |
| 03:29.20 | berndhs | it is more complicated, but the problems of monopolies versus free markets remains in those cases |
| 03:29.28 | strannik1 | Berndhs: meh ,, the uks railroads suck .. Always late and they brake down if there is half an inch of snow |
| 03:29.31 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: I would think that it actually stems from a bigger fundamental problem with the monetary system. We wish for more money to be created all the time, to allow people to keep paying their debts. As a result, the interest rates have been 0.5-1.5 % for a very long time even though inflation is getting far ahead of that. The low rates both help people manage their monthly payments and encourage others to take more ... |
| 03:29.37 | Tronic | ... loans, keeping the system running. |
| 03:30.13 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, debt is a big problem. |
| 03:30.23 | GeneralAntilles | But the government appears to be leading by example here. ;) |
| 03:31.02 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 03:31.17 | strannik1 | Maybe we europeans already live in communism without know it.. Last time i checked you pay about 5% less taxes in china than most european country |
| 03:31.23 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: What the US goverment and the bankers have done with investment instruments (i.e. making the vast majority of the economy consist of those rather than real goods) follows from the need to keep increasing the monetary economy, even if we cannot actually produce more/better material goods. |
| 03:31.42 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, there's nothing wrong with a strong financial market. |
| 03:31.57 | GeneralAntilles | Where do you think capital comes from? |
| 03:32.09 | berndhs | the volume of financial markets is about 10 times that of production, world wide |
| 03:32.16 | GeneralAntilles | But the government's meddling in the financial system needs to stop. |
| 03:32.38 | *** join/#harmattan pcfe (~pcfe@redhat/pcfe) |
| 03:32.42 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Capital comes from loans, which are oversupported by various systems (yes, including the governments). |
| 03:32.43 | berndhs | so the capital in financial markets comes from betting on production and consumption |
| 03:33.49 | *** join/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 03:34.29 | strannik1 | Btw you guys know that china is socialist and not communist? And that the soviet unions was also socialist and never communist |
| 03:34.43 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Unfortunately I don't think that'll help but I would certainly be willing to accept it *if* it also meant no more bailouts. I.e. if the private sector takes the profits, they also need to handle the risks. |
| 03:35.00 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, oh the fun meddling redefinition of terms you'll find there in the US education system. |
| 03:35.12 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, bailouts are meddling. |
| 03:35.37 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Yes, just needed to clarify because many think that "no meddling" only means more freedom. |
| 03:36.04 | GeneralAntilles | Tronic, Orwellian redefinition of the language is becoming more and more frustrating. :( |
| 03:36.15 | Tronic | Quite true. |
| 03:36.31 | berndhs | I like states like Qatar, privately owned :) |
| 03:37.03 | strannik1 | Ok here is a mindfuck question . How do you know that we dont live in a dictatorship or socialism/Communism here in the western world? |
| 03:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in the term we're using to describe what's happening in e.g. Russia |
| 03:37.21 | DocScrutinizer | USSR |
| 03:37.25 | DocScrutinizer | china |
| 03:37.36 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, we don't. We can only hope. :P |
| 03:37.43 | strannik1 | Hahaha lol |
| 03:37.57 | GeneralAntilles | strannik1, but look at the ever-increasing power of bodies like the EU and the UN. |
| 03:37.57 | strannik1 | Even in the ussr you had parliament elections |
| 03:38.03 | GeneralAntilles | Unelected, unaccountable. |
| 03:38.26 | strannik1 | European Union ,, Soviet Union .. Get the hint haha .. Now imagine the blue flag is red ;) |
| 03:38.43 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 03:39.08 | strannik1 | Add some socialism into the mix |
| 03:39.25 | GeneralAntilles | I don't get the whole "the 1% controls everything!" Well, what's your answer? "Give more power to the 1%!" |
| 03:39.28 | strannik1 | Maybe putting weaker eu states into debt and robbing them |
| 03:39.41 | GeneralAntilles | Greece is going to be fun. |
| 03:40.02 | strannik1 | They should leave the eu fast |
| 03:40.10 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Not to mention Italy and others still being ignored. |
| 03:40.28 | GeneralAntilles | EU should dissolve. |
| 03:40.33 | DocScrutinizer | ignored by whom? |
| 03:40.34 | Tronic | GeneralAntilles: Need to handle one of them at a time because nobody wants to see the big picture. |
| 03:40.37 | GeneralAntilles | It's not good for anybody but the EU elites. |
| 03:40.38 | strannik1 | Infact i think spain is off just as bad as greece financially |
| 03:41.03 | strannik1 | GeneralAntilles: yea true .. Not even for the elites because weaked members pull down the elites |
| 03:41.05 | *** join/#harmattan clbr1 (~clbr@e178004109.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 03:42.00 | Tronic | DocScrutinizer: There are plenty of EMU members whose economy is screwed already. We are expected to bailout one at a time. In the Spring it was Portugal, now it is Greece (again), others will follow as soon as we have Greece sorted out. |
| 03:42.36 | Tronic | Iceland is not doing too badly, now is it? |
| 03:43.01 | strannik1 | I thought china was going to help with the greece bailout |
| 03:43.12 | strannik1 | I dunno if theyre still going to send over the money |
| 03:43.25 | GeneralAntilles | Greece needs to get its house in order. |
| 03:43.31 | Tronic | strannik1: They pulled out, apparently due to the mess with Greece not being able/willing to make those budget cuts. |
| 03:43.33 | GeneralAntilles | Bailouts aren't going to help there. |
| 03:44.16 | strannik1 | Tronic: greece should just leave ..they will end up being a bitch of europe |
| 03:44.24 | strannik1 | If it doesnt end in war |
| 03:44.38 | Tronic | Iceland is an interesting country in that that they simply decided not to pay their debts. |
| 03:44.50 | strannik1 | Or a second euro currency should be made to help the weaker states |
| 03:45.29 | Tronic | strannik1: Their own currency won't really solve any of the issues. |
| 03:45.56 | strannik1 | Well it will .. They could regulate their own inflation for instance |
| 03:46.00 | GeneralAntilles | Alright, it's been fun gentlemen, but I've got to get up early tomorrow to vote. 'night. |
| 03:46.31 | strannik1 | Night night .. What you voting for? |
| 03:46.45 | strannik1 | Peace , freedom and pink furry elephants? |
| 03:46.51 | GeneralAntilles | City council elections and a handful of power-grabbing referendums. |
| 03:47.02 | GeneralAntilles | So, "underdog" and "no." |
| 03:47.14 | strannik1 | Go get em!! And remember in the ussr you could vote too :) haha |
| 03:47.25 | GeneralAntilles | Hehe |
| 03:47.26 | GeneralAntilles | later |
| 03:47.31 | Tronic | strannik1: Assuming that Greece switched to Drakhma, the value of that would be next to nothing. Now, their internal market might seem good then but they couldn't afford to import anything anymore. |
| 03:47.50 | strannik1 | I think its interesting how the pirate party is getting more and more votes |
| 03:48.11 | Tronic | strannik1: Banks would get huge losses from the public debt shrinking with the currency change. |
| 03:48.51 | strannik1 | Tronic: low currency for greece would actually be excellent . It would mean a lot of foreign investment |
| 03:48.57 | strannik1 | Therefore jobs |
| 03:49.02 | strannik1 | Facilities , etc |
| 03:49.05 | Tronic | strannik1: Why would anyone invest in Greece? |
| 03:49.15 | strannik1 | If the currency was so cheap |
| 03:49.18 | Tronic | It is a country infested with massive corruption. |
| 03:49.32 | strannik1 | Say you could open a hamburger shop for just 100 bucks there |
| 03:49.46 | berndhs | Tronic: if its dirt cheap to buy the corruption, its still attractive to investors |
| 03:49.52 | strannik1 | Yea |
| 03:50.11 | Tronic | strannik1: Yes, but you also get almost no profits at all (in USD/EUR because the local currency is so weak). |
| 03:50.17 | strannik1 | Thats why having an own currency is good |
| 03:50.34 | Tronic | berndhs: Good point. |
| 03:51.03 | strannik1 | Tronic: well if everybody starts going in because its cheap it will eventually raise the currency |
| 03:51.38 | ieatlint | haha, it's still going |
| 03:51.42 | strannik1 | And even if you dont make a lot of money at first it might be a good long term investment |
| 03:52.05 | strannik1 | Look at cocacola and pepsi |
| 03:52.17 | strannik1 | They will sell you the drinks at a loss if they have to |
| 03:52.18 | Tronic | Well, at least they have very strong military forces. It appears that a lot of the bailout money so far has gone into new tanks and battleships. |
| 03:52.51 | strannik1 | Brb |
| 03:54.51 | ieatlint | keep fighting for the proletariat, comrades |
| 03:54.58 | ieatlint | (there, that should stir it a bit longer) |
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| 03:55.28 | berndhs | we haven't argued deb vs rpm all month |
| 03:59.40 | strannik1 | Does anyone know what the socialist movement in london was all about? |
| 03:59.45 | Tronic | sings The Internationale |
| 04:00.04 | strannik1 | The people gathering at st pauls |
| 04:00.05 | Tronic | strannik1: Black movement, actually (AFAIK) |
| 04:00.27 | strannik1 | Yea the media keeps saying its the blacks lol |
| 04:00.46 | strannik1 | So the blacks want socialism? |
| 04:01.04 | Tronic | No, they want new flatscreen tellies. |
| 04:01.12 | strannik1 | Hahahaha XD |
| 04:01.18 | strannik1 | Yea and iphones |
| 04:01.31 | strannik1 | But they left the bookstores intact |
| 04:01.37 | Tronic | No wonder. |
| 04:02.00 | strannik1 | Education should be forced upon people ha |
| 04:02.45 | strannik1 | Funny how in the ussr the peasants took over the farm lands and killed the previous owners |
| 04:03.00 | strannik1 | They didnt know how to make good use of the farm land , and manage it |
| 04:03.02 | Tronic | On a more serious note, there has been a very strong clash between classes (labour vs. "the suits") in London (dunno of the rest of UK) long before those riots. |
| 04:03.07 | strannik1 | So it ended up in famines |
| 04:04.13 | strannik1 | This is what i dont get.. Everybody has the chance to compete in the market |
| 04:05.03 | strannik1 | It seems fair to me .. Everybody has to work hard |
| 04:05.15 | Tronic | Well, that's the problem. In socialism everybody must be equal. In market economy you get ahead if you are better. |
| 04:06.08 | strannik1 | Not neccesarily if you are better , but if you are hard working i would say |
| 04:06.38 | Tronic | In an ideal capitalistic society everybody has the same starting point and some finish off better than others. |
| 04:06.42 | strannik1 | A lot of the labour complain that ceos dont do any work ... I dunno if that is true |
| 04:07.16 | strannik1 | Tronic: yea and everyone has a choice which path to take |
| 04:07.17 | SpeedEvil | hard working, and lucky. |
| 04:08.01 | strannik1 | 90% work 10%luck .. A teacher used to tell us before we took exams |
| 04:08.06 | Tronic | strannik1: But if you are stupid, less lucky or whatever (assuming attributes you cannot change yourself), you may end up at the bottom. |
| 04:08.14 | Tronic | The reality is that people are not "created" equal. |
| 04:08.16 | berndhs | hard working, lucky, helpful uncle, ... |
| 04:08.24 | SpeedEvil | Tronic: ugly |
| 04:08.39 | Tronic | In a socialist society everybody is forced to finish equal. |
| 04:09.43 | berndhs | again, unless you have a helpful relative |
| 04:09.45 | strannik1 | Or if you are superclever but you are a lazy bum who just cant be fucked |
| 04:10.22 | Tronic | Also, there is no ideal capitalistic society because in reality some already have wealth while others have to start from the bottom. The existing wealth may be used to prevent new competitors from entering the market. |
| 04:11.07 | strannik1 | But those who start at the bottom have less risk |
| 04:11.17 | strannik1 | They have nothing to lose |
| 04:11.37 | strannik1 | Its kinda like in a casino |
| 04:11.53 | strannik1 | It doesnt matter if you are playing roulette with 100 , or 100,000 |
| 04:12.00 | strannik1 | Its actually exactly the same |
| 04:12.20 | Tronic | A typical example is that of an important company (say, Intel) forcing its customers not to use the competitor's product by threatening to stop selling to them otherwise. |
| 04:12.30 | SpeedEvil | Having no safety net reduces the ability of those one step up fromthe bottom to try to improve themselves. |
| 04:12.36 | SpeedEvil | As their risk is much higher. |
| 04:12.48 | Tronic | So, Dell cannot ship PCs with AMD CPUs because then they would no longer have access to Intel hardware. |
| 04:13.58 | Tronic | The governments interfere by setting antitrust limitations, trying to prevent such behavior. |
| 04:15.06 | strannik1 | Meh , generally the more capitalistic a country is the better |
| 04:15.52 | Tronic | Capitalistic or liberal? |
| 04:16.05 | Tronic | The latter meaning completely unregulated markets. |
| 04:16.26 | strannik1 | Government intervention should only apply to essential needs. |
| 04:16.54 | strannik1 | Tronic: probably liberal . But with a very few limitations |
| 04:17.10 | Tronic | Allowing free competition on a market is a rather essential need, wouldn't you say? |
| 04:17.43 | strannik1 | I would actually yea |
| 04:17.49 | Tronic | If a monopoly corporation can block everybody else out, I don't see how the free market could function. |
| 04:18.16 | strannik1 | Tronic: that is tricky actually yea |
| 04:19.24 | strannik1 | Well microsoft is monopolistic for example |
| 04:19.38 | strannik1 | Is it that bad? |
| 04:19.47 | Tronic | They would be much more so if it weren't for the law preventing them. |
| 04:20.05 | berndhs | the problem with all these systems is that they are not stable |
| 04:20.21 | Tronic | E.g. consider forcing laptop manufacturers to only ship with Windows preinstalled. |
| 04:20.33 | berndhs | free markets don't tend to stay free, "fair" systems like socialism or anarchy don't stay fair |
| 04:20.39 | Tronic | How could one sell an alternative OS if everybody has to pay for the preinstalled Windows in any case? |
| 04:20.42 | SpeedEvil | And requiring bootloaders that do not allow unsigned code. |
| 04:20.55 | SpeedEvil | Tronic: that's in the case in the UK pretty much. |
| 04:20.59 | SpeedEvil | You can't get refunds |
| 04:21.16 | Tronic | Yep. |
| 04:21.55 | strannik1 | You can always build your own pc .. Buy a mac |
| 04:22.11 | strannik1 | With a laptop you would be struggling |
| 04:22.45 | berndhs | soon you will get safe, authenticated signed boot loaders. Good luck making your own OS then |
| 04:23.21 | Tronic | berndhs: Not gonna happen (as a mandatory feature) on PC, though... But it is already on all other devices. |
| 04:23.24 | strannik1 | I hope that won't happen |
| 04:23.48 | Tronic | On PC historically always the more open/compatible system wins. |
| 04:24.01 | SpeedEvil | historically, yes. |
| 04:24.01 | strannik1 | It has been true for mobile devices and consoles |
| 04:24.38 | SpeedEvil | If hardware makers figure out how to get a cut of 'appz' revenue... |
| 04:25.30 | strannik1 | Porn |
| 04:25.43 | Tronic | SpeedEvil: Pretty much the only company that could pull that off is Intel but not even them as long as AMD is well alive (anyone remember Athlon64 vs. Intel trying to phase out x86?) |
| 04:26.08 | strannik1 | Yea |
| 04:26.39 | Tronic | Haven't seen many Itaniums around but AMD's 64 bit arch is everywhere. |
| 04:26.55 | strannik1 | True |
| 04:27.09 | SpeedEvil | Your average user does not care about openness. |
| 04:27.18 | SpeedEvil | They care about 'will it run crysis at xpfs' |
| 04:27.27 | SpeedEvil | Or 'does it run the internet' |
| 04:27.34 | strannik1 | Haha lol yea |
| 04:27.44 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: no |
| 04:27.57 | SpeedEvil | It's only if there are enough niche users, that it's a worthwhile marketing opportunity that there is a pressure towards continued openness. |
| 04:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: business >> home |
| 04:28.11 | berndhs | Intel has been promoting Trusted Boot to redhat et al |
| 04:28.17 | SpeedEvil | And yes - there is that. |
| 04:28.49 | strannik1 | There should be more hackers around |
| 04:28.59 | Tronic | SpeedEvil: The average user doesn't but the extremely heterogenous PC industry appears to be the force that keeps everything free/open. |
| 04:29.03 | strannik1 | The new kids are too impatient |
| 04:29.16 | strannik1 | And the hacker community today just sucks |
| 04:29.58 | strannik1 | Yea i dont think it will go down the route of everything being closed down |
| 04:30.07 | strannik1 | Having to have signed software to run |
| 04:30.10 | strannik1 | Tho who knows |
| 04:30.26 | Tronic | SpeedEvil: E.g. UEFI doesn't get much attention until Asus and others start putting it on their motherboards, despite Intel's best efforts. |
| 04:30.28 | berndhs | it's all for your saftety :) |
| 04:30.58 | Tronic | The BTX standard pushed by Intel died at birth because the M/B manufacturers preferred the better compatibility of ATX. |
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| 04:32.43 | berndhs | oh well |
| 04:32.49 | berndhs | good night |
| 04:32.56 | SpeedEvil | Hackers getting distracted into pointless ventures, like android ROMs, and apple cracking is depressing. |
| 04:32.58 | SpeedEvil | night! |
| 04:33.10 | *** part/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 04:33.58 | strannik1 | I am off to bed |
| 04:34.00 | strannik1 | Night all |
| 04:34.10 | strannik1 | Getting 4 hours of sleep :(( |
| 04:34.15 | Tronic | One manufacturer, one ecosystem, one OS - that's the model where you always end up with no right to tinker. |
| 04:34.41 | *** part/#harmattan strannik1 (~Strannik@81.5.157.62) |
| 04:35.25 | Tronic | Fortunately the PC is the opposite of Nazi Germany. |
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| 04:36.05 | Tronic | Well, it was nice chatting politics and whatnot with you lads for a change. I'm off to gym-> |
| 04:36.20 | SpeedEvil | Have fun. |
| 04:37.16 | Tronic | Thanks :) |
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| 04:49.36 | hiemanshu | is there printing support in harmattan yet? |
| 05:00.16 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
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| 05:25.28 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: why do laugh? :P |
| 05:25.53 | ieatlint | me not know |
| 05:30.59 | dm8tbr | some CUPS and a ui to send files to it shouldn't be too hard... :) |
| 05:42.43 | SpeedEvil | Is it posssible to talk to bluetooth printers with the existing modules though. |
| 05:42.55 | SpeedEvil | Because if you can't, you can't install cups |
| 05:43.06 | SpeedEvil | well - you can, but you can't use it |
| 05:44.05 | SpeedEvil | Well - not bt |
| 05:48.19 | dm8tbr | hm? cups could still talk to network printers using various protocols |
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| 05:49.35 | hiemanshu | yeah, I have a shared printer, and wanted to print emails without powering on laptop, could probably write a UI for it |
| 05:57.12 | dm8tbr | I wonder how you'd dump the email though |
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| 06:08.17 | hiemanshu | email attachments :P |
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| 06:18.58 | chpwn | this page says the 16GB N9 should have 9.7GB for user data: http://www.nokia.co.za/za-en/support/faq/?action=singleFAQ&caseid=FA136377_en_US |
| 06:19.25 | chpwn | but mine shows "Total Memory: 8.46 GB" and then "User data: 179.5 of 2.1GB |
| 06:19.26 | chpwn | " |
| 06:19.45 | chpwn | I was able to find this discussion reporting a similar issue, but it didn't seem to have a solution: http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-and-MeeGo-Devices/16gb-N9-but-it-shows-8gb-in-the-memory-menu/td-p/1199385 |
| 06:28.02 | chpwn | Ignore me. A reboot fixed it. nevermind. |
| 06:28.15 | ieatlint | i'm already on it |
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| 06:46.54 | Tronic | Photo printing from gallery app would be cool. |
| 06:51.00 | Sazpaimon_ | does the N9 wifi driver have packet injection |
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| 06:52.15 | Corsac | I would doubt it |
| 06:53.40 | psycho_oreos | if its based on mac80211 framework then it should. Whether or not will aegis allow you to muck around and do proper wireless pentesting is something else |
| 06:58.27 | Sazpaimon_ | i also really wish they would use a chip that did AP mode |
| 06:58.38 | Sazpaimon_ | adhoc mode needs to die |
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| 07:03.01 | psycho_oreos | I thought that chipset was supposed to be capable of master/AP mode. Well at least according to http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers wl1271 is listed as yes to AP mode |
| 07:03.32 | psycho_oreos | according to the specifics, it may require a different firmware for Access-Point (maybe they're referring to access point/master mode)? |
| 07:04.21 | Corsac | I didn't even tried wifi hotspot yet |
| 07:04.32 | Corsac | but with n900 tethering through usb was just enough for me |
| 07:04.42 | Corsac | going wireless isn't really useful and takes too much battery |
| 07:08.08 | hiemanshu | wireless is useful when you have multiple machines |
| 07:08.12 | psycho_oreos | its another way if you look at it from this perspective than using USB networking and to have the device sucking off laptop's power |
| 07:09.04 | psycho_oreos | well not exactly, wireless is handy when you have multiple mobile workstations and you don't have access to proper networking equipment handy |
| 07:09.39 | hiemanshu | that, or if you are in my position and ISPs dont want to give you proper internet :P |
| 07:11.56 | psycho_oreos | I'm sure its more or less the same reasoning if for instance you had an android device with SIM card/CDMA and is connected to internet. Setting up USB networking is somewhat a little complex but I'm sure users will find hotspot somewhat more friendly when setting it up is a few button clicks away |
| 07:14.03 | Sazpaimon_ | psycho_oreos, yeah but the firmware is closed |
| 07:14.16 | Sazpaimon_ | and i dont think there's anything for ARM that does AP mode |
| 07:14.33 | psycho_oreos | besides that, AP mode can also be used in various other wasys, like for example it can be used for pentesting.. as a target or as the attacker setting up a honeypot |
| 07:15.11 | Sazpaimon_ | also that page says wl1271 isnt capable of monitor mode |
| 07:15.17 | Sazpaimon_ | but im pretty sure it is |
| 07:15.24 | psycho_oreos | Sazpaimon_, I wouldn't know right now but I wouldn't say AP mode isn't possible until its been fully ruled out |
| 07:15.42 | Sazpaimon_ | actually wait what did the N900 have |
| 07:15.52 | Sazpaimon_ | wl1251? |
| 07:15.54 | psycho_oreos | wl1251 |
| 07:16.07 | Sazpaimon_ | okay |
| 07:16.14 | Sazpaimon_ | so that does support monitor mode yeah |
| 07:16.28 | Sazpaimon_ | and the N9 has wl1271 which apparently doesnt support monitor mode |
| 07:16.37 | Sazpaimon_ | so it might not be able to do packet injection |
| 07:17.01 | psycho_oreos | probably not as yet |
| 07:17.19 | psycho_oreos | thought it might though, I should ask in #linux-wireless however |
| 07:17.43 | Sazpaimon_ | but it does to AP mode, interesting that the hotspot app does adhoc mode then' |
| 07:18.30 | psycho_oreos | again I'm not sure why but if you go to wl1271 specifics page you'll see that it seems it requires a different firmware possibly to enable AP mode.. not to mention you needed to install and configure hostapd |
| 07:18.54 | Sazpaimon_ | yeah |
| 07:19.00 | psycho_oreos | I guess for developers its easier for them to program it that way :þ |
| 07:19.07 | Sazpaimon_ | so no injection, no AP mode |
| 07:19.12 | psycho_oreos | iwconfig wlan0 mode ad-hoc, etc, etc, etc |
| 07:19.23 | psycho_oreos | probably not as yet |
| 07:20.03 | Sazpaimon_ | and even when a kernel module that adds it comes out, we cant add it thanks to aegis |
| 07:23.59 | psycho_oreos | looks like the firmware doesn't support rfmon. Though there might be a bit of chink in the armour: "TI has licensed the FW to several partners that may be interested in helping you to implement a sniffer." |
| 07:24.09 | psycho_oreos | http://e2e.ti.com/support/low_power_rf/f/307/p/139041/500836.aspx |
| 07:25.53 | psycho_oreos | you can't load/unload modules as root? |
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| 07:28.24 | psycho_oreos | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1074611&postcount=27 |
| 07:29.30 | psycho_oreos | sounds like as if N950 has more of a chance than N9 in succeeding rfmon and ultimately packet inject |
| 07:29.34 | psycho_oreos | s/inject/injection/ |
| 07:31.04 | qronic | who knows on which stage (and where in code) SEAL bit is set into /sys/kernel/security/validator/enabled? |
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| 08:02.26 | alterego | Can someone tell me what package devel-su is in? |
| 08:05.10 | hiemanshu | alterego: busybox-devel-su |
| 08:06.13 | alterego | Thanks |
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| 08:12.08 | qronic | what chip is responsible for the top (talk) speaker? card 0: dfl61twl4030 [dfl61-twl4030], or |
| 08:12.08 | qronic | card 1: dfl61dac33 [dfl61-dac33] |
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| 09:05.14 | Corsac | hmhm, does anyone know what rd mode and rd flags do on N9/950? |
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| 09:12.49 | Venemo | good morning everyone :) |
| 09:19.23 | jonni | Corsac: they dont do much, you can disable some watchdogs with it, and enable the serial console pins that are under n950 battery. |
| 09:21.49 | qronic | PR1.1 came on N9! |
| 09:22.20 | qronic | just |
| 09:22.35 | jonni | serial-console is the only semi usefull feature, since with that you can remove fix malf state |
| 09:24.25 | deram | any way to get to N9 serial pins? |
| 09:24.51 | Stskeeps | heh, good fucking luck on those :) |
| 09:25.48 | qronic | week 40 |
| 09:27.12 | qronic | oh, btw, look here http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/ |
| 09:27.42 | qronic | beta3 for n950? what's that? is it pr1.1? |
| 09:27.57 | gri | qronic: really? Damn, don't have network connectivity on the n9 here :( |
| 09:28.21 | qronic | yep, downloading it now, 200mb |
| 09:28.43 | gri | also 39-5? |
| 09:28.48 | qronic | nope, week 40 |
| 09:29.00 | qronic | I guess it's the same basically |
| 09:29.55 | qronic | that beta3 for n950 folder was created today, kernel files there are compiled on 29th of Oct |
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| 09:30.13 | gri | my n9 doesn't find updates (on 3g) |
| 09:30.29 | X-Fade | Update once more. |
| 09:30.30 | deram | mine neither. |
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| 09:31.27 | deram | oh, now I see 20.2011.40-4 |
| 09:31.37 | qronic | yep |
| 09:32.44 | gri | hmm, then mine is too stupid to say "connection too bad" and just displays "device is up to date" when clicking refresh in updates |
| 09:33.04 | qronic | maybe they're rolling it in some countries first |
| 09:33.31 | qronic | what's your battery %? |
| 09:33.57 | gri | 84 |
| 09:34.12 | qronic | not the case, then |
| 09:34.29 | gri | Well, I check at home again, can't update from here anyway |
| 09:35.30 | decibyte | where's the "check for update" button? |
| 09:35.46 | mece | decibyte, settings->applications->manage |
| 09:35.53 | gri | settings -> programs -> updates |
| 09:35.59 | gri | damn, too slow :) |
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| 09:36.27 | decibyte | yeah, just found it. there's no updates for me :( |
| 09:37.14 | mece | oo,I have an update too! for sdk connectivity tool :) |
| 09:38.02 | decibyte | oh, i _do_ have updated. yay! |
| 09:38.43 | decibyte | *updates |
| 09:38.51 | deram | Updating 0 % |
| 09:39.14 | X-Fade | sdk for beta3 is still uploading, so I'd suggest you wait for a bit :) |
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| 09:39.45 | alterego | Heh# |
| 09:39.58 | qronic | so what is beta3? Pr1.1? |
| 09:40.06 | gri | So we have update-day, n9, qt sdk and necessitas? :) |
| 09:40.14 | X-Fade | qronic: Not exactly, but close. |
| 09:40.40 | deram | I hope the N9 update is compatible with sdk... |
| 09:40.50 | X-Fade | b3 has updated qt components and a few small other fixes. |
| 09:41.06 | gri | loves the black menu bars of pr 1.1 |
| 09:41.31 | X-Fade | But it is compatible with 34-1 and up. |
| 09:42.24 | qronic | btw, developers have no control over disabling locking screen? For exmaple, I want to have a timer running for 2 minutes, so I can't make the display not lock for these 2 min? |
| 09:42.41 | qronic | if lock period is set to 1 min |
| 09:42.53 | RST38h | Well, the display actually locks faster than the period |
| 09:42.56 | RST38h | I have no idea why |
| 09:43.12 | gri | qronic: I think you can since games can do that |
| 09:43.32 | gri | and there's an app in ovi store which blocks the screen from locking |
| 09:44.00 | leinir | qronic: sure, you can force the screen to not lock until you allow it again... look through the screen control api, not sure where it is but i know i ran across it at some point :) |
| 09:44.41 | qronic | thanks, guys, it's good, now I canl email the author of MTimer :) |
| 09:44.56 | petteri | I see the update also. Updating right now |
| 09:45.00 | petteri | for N9 |
| 09:45.09 | RST38h | What update? There is an update? |
| 09:45.29 | leinir | is working on an NFC powered update for his tea (and eggs and pasta and whatever else) timer app... :) |
| 09:45.30 | qronic | scroll up a bit ) |
| 09:46.37 | qronic | updating right now |
| 09:49.06 | alterego | Heh |
| 09:49.17 | alterego | leinir: I bought 10 NFC stickers the other day :) |
| 09:49.25 | alterego | Still contemplating what to stick them to :) |
| 09:49.34 | alterego | TV is one, and my laptop. |
| 09:49.46 | gri | sticker the cat, one gets diet food, the other not :P |
| 09:50.18 | leinir | alterego: Tehee :) |
| 09:50.30 | leinir | i picked up a bunch of them at devdays in Munich ;) |
| 09:51.22 | leinir | also made sure to grab a bunch for my little brother's uni project - scored them two N9s and a set of four type1, four type2 and four mifare tags for their mobile project next semester :) |
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| 09:53.37 | qronic | not a good sign, update has failed, asks to retry or cancel |
| 09:55.26 | qronic | retry: downloads another 313kb and tries again |
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| 09:55.58 | qronic | I feel like it's gon fail again, probably will have to reboot and then try again |
| 09:56.54 | leinir | hmm... wondering if it might'be been published a little too early :) |
| 09:57.09 | leinir | as in, the information the update is there is |
| 09:57.33 | leinir | so that the notification is made before the actual data's done uploading and spreading to the various mirrors |
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| 09:59.11 | qronic | I think the actual data was uploaded on week 40-41 |
| 09:59.14 | RST38h | Contradicting earlier reports from the Guardian, Reuters reported late Monday that four sources close to the matter have confirmed that WebOS is being sought by companies, potentially Oracle, and that HP is weighing the benefits of a potential sale. |
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| 10:00.20 | qronic | why would oracle need it? btw, I've read reoprts how good webos is, but got the touchpad on the sale and damn, webos is a crap next to harmattan |
| 10:00.25 | qronic | at least on the UI side |
| 10:01.41 | qronic | ok, it failed again |
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| 10:04.20 | deram | qronic: failed downloading or updating? |
| 10:04.37 | qronic | updating |
| 10:05.09 | qronic | resetted, trying again |
| 10:05.34 | deram | I'm updating at 58% |
| 10:05.54 | qronic | I've never seen anything other than 0% :) |
| 10:06.00 | ArkanoiD_ | browses xkb config trying to find damn autocapitalization rules |
| 10:06.00 | chouchoune | 21% |
| 10:06.11 | ArkanoiD_ | no idea where can it be |
| 10:06.15 | chouchoune | is it normal that it switchs to flight mode during the update ? |
| 10:06.32 | X-Fade | chouchoune: yes |
| 10:06.35 | chouchoune | (just after 17%) |
| 10:06.38 | chouchoune | ok, great |
| 10:06.40 | deram | at 0% it probably does integrity checking for the update. |
| 10:06.55 | chouchoune | thanks |
| 10:07.33 | decibyte | ArkanoiD_: please tell us if you find it |
| 10:08.47 | deram | yep.. in device with quite usable shift, there is no reason for autocapitalize |
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| 10:17.05 | deram | woh... update restarted phone, asked pin, and asked security code... just that the virtual keyboard took about a minute to load... |
| 10:17.35 | Stskeeps | reindexing happened, probably |
| 10:17.40 | Stskeeps | tracker |
| 10:17.41 | Stskeeps | :P |
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| 10:18.30 | decibyte | it's almost like xmas :) |
| 10:18.40 | decibyte | even better |
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| 10:22.14 | djszapi | X-Fade lbt is this site served by you ? http://apps.formeego.org/applications/ |
| 10:22.25 | X-Fade | djszapi: yes |
| 10:22.27 | djszapi | Do you use the Open Collaboration Services Standard in the background ? |
| 10:22.36 | X-Fade | djszapi: yes |
| 10:22.43 | djszapi | We are about to make a ocs account plugin. Just thought, might be useful for you as well, not just for us, Gluon. |
| 10:23.06 | X-Fade | We're not providing the account part yet though. |
| 10:23.19 | djszapi | is it planned ? |
| 10:23.31 | X-Fade | djszapi: http://apps.formeego.org/ocs/providers.xml |
| 10:23.41 | djszapi | oh grat. |
| 10:23.43 | djszapi | great* |
| 10:23.56 | X-Fade | djszapi: It is a nice to have, but it is not planned atm. |
| 10:24.04 | leinir | weeell... ocs is all about social distribution, it'd be pretty cool if you got that in there - it's something that no other platform has, so... :) |
| 10:24.35 | X-Fade | Yeah, but right now the priority is still in getting the thing working ;) |
| 10:24.44 | djszapi | sure. |
| 10:24.51 | X-Fade | But I agree that it would be cool. |
| 10:25.11 | X-Fade | And some parts would be reasonably easy to add. |
| 10:25.25 | *** join/#harmattan dymaxion (~dymaxion@unaffiliated/dymaxion) |
| 10:25.37 | djszapi | mmm, attica is not available by default on this platform. We might need to package that into the account plugin. |
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| 10:25.47 | qronic | X-Fade: are there any logs to see why the update fails? |
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| 10:25.59 | djszapi | qronic: what sort of update ? |
| 10:26.08 | leinir | X-Fade: priorities++ ;) |
| 10:26.14 | X-Fade | qronic: I have no idea, not my area of expertise. |
| 10:26.28 | qronic | I see |
| 10:26.33 | qronic | <djszapi>: PR1.1 for N9 |
| 10:26.34 | X-Fade | qronic: fwiw, my N9 updated fine just 10 mins ago. |
| 10:26.53 | djszapi | qronic: you mean ssu ? |
| 10:26.54 | qronic | yeah, but mine is stuck on 0% and then fails |
| 10:27.10 | pinheiro_ | were does one report bugs? |
| 10:27.28 | djszapi | pinheiro_: there are no bugs on Harmattan :D |
| 10:27.31 | qronic | <djszapi> that came over-the-air for N9 users |
| 10:27.49 | decibyte | my 3g connection dropped a few mb before the download was completed :'( |
| 10:28.18 | djszapi | pinheiro_: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3906 |
| 10:28.34 | djszapi | pinheiro_:http://developer.nokia.com/bugs |
| 10:28.44 | pinheiro_ | for some reason my n950 keeps asking me for random account passwords all the time is that new? |
| 10:28.53 | decibyte | oh! it doesn't hav to re-download all of it. hooray! |
| 10:29.08 | X-Fade | pinheiro_: I got that too all of a sudden this weekend. |
| 10:29.10 | djszapi | qronic: I am not getting you |
| 10:29.32 | X-Fade | pinheiro_: After I entered all the passwords once, it stopped. |
| 10:29.47 | djszapi | X-Fade: do you have an idea why "osc" needs static qemu ? |
| 10:29.52 | djszapi | why the stock qemu does not work ? |
| 10:29.59 | pinheiro_ | X-Fade: it wont stop |
| 10:30.12 | X-Fade | djszapi: Because it runs it inside the chroot? |
| 10:30.38 | djszapi | X-Fade: cannot dynamic qemu be used inside chroot ? |
| 10:30.51 | djszapi | probably not, so question is: the rason :) |
| 10:30.55 | djszapi | reason* |
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| 10:31.09 | X-Fade | djszapi: If you want to install complete arm libc and every dependency down the tree etc ;) |
| 10:31.16 | decibyte | qronic: did you get past 0%? |
| 10:31.18 | Stskeeps | dynamic qemu can't be used inside chroot |
| 10:31.37 | djszapi | X-Fade pretty unlucky, we do not have qemu on archlinux :/ |
| 10:31.37 | qronic | decibyte: no |
| 10:31.51 | X-Fade | djszapi: Can't you just compile it? |
| 10:31.56 | qronic | install goes like this in ps ax: 5772 root apt-desktop add-interesting mp-harmattan-001-pr libcontentaction |
| 10:32.03 | X-Fade | djszapi: There are instructions on the meego wiki about it iirc. |
| 10:32.16 | decibyte | qronic: poor you. i thought mine was stuck too, but it just moved to 2%. |
| 10:32.18 | djszapi | X-Fade: I would like to make a packge, if I spend the time with it. Arch is a common distribution, and I am pretty sure others face the same issue. |
| 10:32.29 | djszapi | package*, but that will require more time when I find that. |
| 10:32.32 | pinheiro_ | btw wasnt the radio suposed to not work on the n950? |
| 10:32.38 | qronic | I guess, I'll have to wait for stand-alone flasher and image |
| 10:32.52 | X-Fade | djszapi: Can't you steal the packaging from another distro? Not familiar with arch. |
| 10:33.03 | djszapi | X-Fade: no, arch was stolen by other distros :p |
| 10:33.07 | djszapi | like chakra .. |
| 10:33.17 | djszapi | X-Fade: do you have that link off-hand ? |
| 10:33.24 | X-Fade | djszapi: no |
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| 10:34.12 | jreznik | is downloading the update, slow but it works |
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| 10:36.08 | djszapi | X-Fade: I will make a try to install deb or rpm on arch :p |
| 10:36.25 | X-Fade | djszapi: Does alien work there? |
| 10:36.33 | djszapi | hope so, or dpkg |
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| 10:44.57 | djszapi | X-Fade: I do not find a (meego) wikipage for building static qemu |
| 10:45.14 | djszapi | hi faenil o/ See your short talk in the Qt Dev Days video :) |
| 10:45.39 | faenil | djszapi: ahahah :D yeah xD that was fun, glad it was a short one XD |
| 10:45.56 | faenil | the real interview was much longer, I'm glad they only used those 5 seconds :D |
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| 10:53.58 | petteri | update worked nicely. N9 seems notable faster to use |
| 10:54.14 | decibyte | did the vibration change in the new firmware? |
| 10:54.33 | petteri | don't know. I have not used it |
| 10:55.06 | faenil | update?? |
| 10:55.20 | faenil | which update? |
| 10:56.04 | decibyte | it just made a lot more noise on the table that i think it used to. maybe it's just my imagination. but i'd really like it to vibrate more than it used to. |
| 10:56.21 | decibyte | faenil: update for the n9 |
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| 10:57.09 | deram | I'd like to see vibrate update, that allows you to disable vibrate when phone is not in pocket. |
| 10:57.09 | jreznik | petteri: really? faster? on n950 I'm feeling it's slower with PR1.1 but I hope it's true - it's unusable as music player, every action leads to mmus--ic-cc skipping... |
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| 10:57.43 | faenil | decibyte: which version? |
| 10:57.56 | alterego | Oh neat, flasher has a -T option that allows you to supply an overlay of the image you're flashing on to a device. |
| 10:58.03 | decibyte | faenil: erh... 1.1? ask the other guys :) |
| 10:59.09 | deram | PR1.1 it is |
| 10:59.17 | faenil | yey! When was it released? |
| 10:59.21 | decibyte | faenil: as in "i don't know" - not to be rude. |
| 10:59.23 | deram | today? |
| 10:59.29 | petteri | jreznik: yes nice and snappy |
| 10:59.40 | faenil | wow :) |
| 10:59.50 | faenil | decibyte: np ;) |
| 10:59.55 | deram | I'm having bit studdering in some places... nothing much open... |
| 11:00.04 | deram | might help when restarted,,, |
| 11:00.07 | faenil | like? |
| 11:00.24 | decibyte | hello, pretty music controls on lock screen :) |
| 11:00.34 | faenil | :) |
| 11:00.39 | deram | decibyte: but not in ovi music... |
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| 11:01.10 | decibyte | deram: why not? but i don't use ovi music. |
| 11:01.41 | deram | I don't know.. just that there was no next button there when playing genreradio |
| 11:03.19 | decibyte | oh, well... still no ovi music in denmark :/ |
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| 11:26.20 | djszapi | hi M4rtinK o/ Do you know whether there is a bullet-proof wiki about building qemu statically from scratch ? |
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| 11:28.30 | faenil | darn PR 1.1 is not available here! :( |
| 11:28.36 | M4rtinK | djszapi: no idea, I actually know qemu from a high level user perspective only |
| 11:29.09 | djszapi | M4rtinK: we should probably add the build steps to your section as soon as we figure it out. |
| 11:30.34 | decibyte | faenil: i had to tap the update button in the top right corner of the "manage applications" update screen to see it |
| 11:32.08 | deram | I had to go twice in to that updates menu... |
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| 11:35.53 | qronic | updates are stored in /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 11:36.00 | qronic | 227.1M /var/cache/apt/archives/ |
| 11:36.12 | qronic | gonna rm -rf 'em and start again |
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| 11:39.20 | ArkanoiD_ | fsck |
| 11:39.37 | ArkanoiD_ | got all resource-consuming tracker-store just like on n900 |
| 11:40.00 | X-Fade | ArkanoiD_: after firmware update? |
| 11:40.36 | ArkanoiD_ | nope, just "happened" |
| 11:40.58 | qronic | <ArkanoiD_> what you're using? n9/n950? |
| 11:41.02 | ArkanoiD_ | n950 |
| 11:41.17 | ArkanoiD_ | rebboted -- it was definitely nuts |
| 11:41.34 | djszapi | so any Ui designers apart from the never available wazd ? :p |
| 11:42.23 | ArkanoiD_ | oh no |
| 11:42.26 | ArkanoiD_ | it did not help |
| 11:42.38 | ArkanoiD_ | it woke up again and still doing "something" |
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| 11:43.04 | ArkanoiD_ | UI is almost unresponsive |
| 11:43.16 | ArkanoiD_ | battery is draining fast |
| 11:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | yay, updates. IS any of that backed up by a flashable official image now? aka OCF? |
| 11:45.36 | ArkanoiD_ | the most stupid thing is that gestures almost stopped working |
| 11:45.44 | ArkanoiD_ | i get "random taps" instead |
| 11:49.07 | RST38h | Arkanoid <-- obviously did something to piss off gadget gods |
| 11:49.34 | *** join/#harmattan Jonno (~jon@62.127.211.186) |
| 11:51.57 | djszapi | Where are the Harmattan Qt Components documented ? |
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| 11:55.00 | mgedmin | djszapi, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com, IIRC |
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| 11:56.03 | djszapi | mgedmin: so where do you actually see the qt components there documented ? |
| 11:56.05 | mgedmin | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components.html?tab=1 |
| 11:56.51 | mgedmin | and the generic qt components are at http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt4/qdeclarativeelements.html?tab=1 |
| 11:57.02 | Venemo | thanks mgedmin, I didn't know |
| 11:58.02 | RST38h | moos at mgedmin |
| 11:58.25 | mgedmin | waves vaguely |
| 11:59.59 | djszapi | mgedmin: thanks. |
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| 12:00.28 | djszapi | mgedmin: well the last one is not component thingie. That is more like plain QML |
| 12:00.47 | mgedmin | I'm a bit fuzzy on the terms |
| 12:01.04 | mgedmin | I though "component" == QML element |
| 12:01.12 | ArkanoiD_ | is there something like iotop or conky? |
| 12:01.24 | RST38h | iotop exists |
| 12:01.28 | djszapi | mgedmin: components mean native look'n feel to me. Pure QML does not know that. |
| 12:01.31 | RST38h | even part of developer tools, I think |
| 12:01.57 | RST38h | conky is actually a visualisation tool, not a measurement tool |
| 12:02.15 | mgedmin | djszapi, right, but some "upstream" QML elements are still necessary; meego-specific ones don't cover everything |
| 12:02.18 | djszapi | at any rate .. this link aforementioned sounds like a good reference on the landing page. |
| 12:03.29 | djszapi | added |
| 12:06.06 | kirma | great. |
| 12:06.30 | ArkanoiD_ | omfg |
| 12:06.32 | kirma | upgraded N9 to PR1.1 with maybe a bit of apt-get force, and now I don't have localizations. |
| 12:06.54 | ArkanoiD_ | it remembered all gestures i made while it was non-responsive and now is trying to perform corresponding actions |
| 12:07.02 | kirma | for instance, PIN/security code buttons are no more numbers |
| 12:07.28 | kirma | and application names are "!! Something" |
| 12:07.49 | RST38h | that means they have not been translated |
| 12:08.17 | RST38h | should not have used apt-get |
| 12:08.24 | kirma | obviously. |
| 12:08.36 | RST38h | should have figured out what packages prevent upgrade, remove these packages, then upgrade normally |
| 12:09.09 | RST38h | awaits this evening's update process with fear |
| 12:11.32 | mgedmin | ArkanoiD_, :D |
| 12:11.57 | mgedmin | so, I opened a 1300-page PDF (the pages are scanned bitmaps, not text!) |
| 12:12.00 | deram | swype+terminal+ssh+irssi=plain wrong things to random channels |
| 12:12.02 | mgedmin | N9 did not even blink |
| 12:12.05 | mgedmin | until I locked the screen |
| 12:12.28 | mgedmin | and then I experienced the same thing: my unlock gestures started working after a 3-minute wait (and an OOM-killer killing process call-history message in dmesg) |
| 12:12.58 | ArkanoiD_ | wonders how long event queue is :-) |
| 12:15.22 | RST38h | the size of your disk? |
| 12:17.30 | kirma | I wonder what should I do next to get the damn phone fixed... |
| 12:17.43 | kirma | thankfully it's not bricked |
| 12:18.31 | qronic | reflash it with stock firmware |
| 12:18.44 | qronic | then apply PR1.1 properly |
| 12:18.47 | DocScrutinizer | stress --help |
| 12:18.56 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: ^^^ |
| 12:19.14 | mgedmin | ? |
| 12:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: better tha 1300 pp random pdf |
| 12:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | qronic: well, <DocScrutinizer> yay, updates. IS any of that backed up by a flashable official image now? aka OCF? |
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| 12:21.12 | frals | no idea why they arent publishing the fuckin images already |
| 12:21.15 | frals | beyond retarded |
| 12:21.40 | kirma | hah. |
| 12:22.09 | DocScrutinizer | kirma: qronic: I'd really be interested if you could flash downgrade this time, or if the new image again peeps up at some obscure 3rd party webpages/tools - if there's any for 40-4 |
| 12:22.28 | kirma | now my phone is updating developer-mode, and at the moment the top-bar menu is losing entries and text in flight, and even has entries that are aligned in different orientations... |
| 12:22.35 | kirma | "eh" |
| 12:23.19 | DocScrutinizer | wow |
| 12:23.52 | Corsac | hey |
| 12:24.03 | kirma | I'm starting to suspect it's removing existing installations, starting from base software |
| 12:25.56 | mgedmin | my N9 is strangely warm |
| 12:26.21 | mgedmin | /usr/bin/messageserver is eating 100% CPU again |
| 12:26.46 | vladest | updating qtsdk |
| 12:26.58 | vladest | is there is new fw for 950? |
| 12:27.42 | mgedmin | kills it with fire (-9, since it ignores SIGTERM) |
| 12:27.47 | X-Fade | vladest: no, but this update for n9 is about the same as what you have on n950. |
| 12:28.00 | vladest | ah, ok |
| 12:28.15 | mgedmin | so swipe down now unconditionally closes apps? ugh, I don't think I'll like that |
| 12:28.32 | RST38h | mgedmin: login issue. kill. |
| 12:28.36 | X-Fade | mgedmin: You can disble it? |
| 12:28.44 | X-Fade | *disable |
| 12:28.50 | mgedmin | in PR 1.0, yes |
| 12:28.51 | RST38h | mgedmin: yes, swipe down closes apps by default, but can be disabled in some text file |
| 12:28.53 | kirma | heh. now the phone really uninstalled all the pieces that'd allow fixing it again |
| 12:28.56 | kirma | quite a feat |
| 12:29.02 | mgedmin | in PR 1.0 there's an option in the settings app |
| 12:29.09 | kirma | how to reflash n9 over usb? |
| 12:29.33 | mgedmin | kirma, take it to a Nokia Care Center -- they haven't published a firmware image, the bastards |
| 12:29.57 | Corsac | there's a firmware image available from Nokia servers |
| 12:30.04 | Corsac | but it's not really official |
| 12:30.18 | kirma | heh. thought about calling them, but I don't have a working phone... |
| 12:30.31 | kirma | is there a tool, too? |
| 12:30.38 | Corsac | flasher |
| 12:30.48 | Corsac | ~google unbricking n9 |
| 12:30.55 | kirma | hmmh |
| 12:31.27 | X-Fade | points to the topic |
| 12:31.48 | Corsac | X-Fade: the OCF won't help for N9 |
| 12:32.12 | Corsac | http://www.stochasticgeometry.ie/2011/10/20/unbricking-n9/ worked for me |
| 12:32.31 | kirma | hmmh. |
| 12:32.33 | kirma | thanks |
| 12:33.54 | kirma | well, download link for the firmware of course doesn't work. |
| 12:34.04 | Corsac | see comments |
| 12:34.24 | sandst1 | kirma: use http://www.symbian-toys.com/navifirm.aspx to download the image |
| 12:35.07 | Corsac | if you have a windows box |
| 12:35.08 | DocScrutinizer | Corsac: pointer |
| 12:35.12 | mgedmin | .exe |
| 12:35.22 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: pointer? |
| 12:35.30 | sp3000 | 0x00000000 |
| 12:35.34 | Corsac | :) |
| 12:35.36 | sandst1 | try installing with wine? |
| 12:35.40 | sp3000 | it's my favorite |
| 12:35.43 | DocScrutinizer | to 40-4 image on nokia fileserver |
| 12:35.47 | Corsac | ha, no |
| 12:35.53 | Corsac | no PR1.1 afaict |
| 12:36.04 | Corsac | well, there might be but I don't have it, sadly |
| 12:36.11 | sandst1 | only 34-1 in the server, just checked |
| 12:36.24 | DocScrutinizer | yep, just what I thought |
| 12:36.34 | kirma | well, anything goes if it works |
| 12:36.57 | DocScrutinizer | kirma: you can get those files without the friggin navifirm |
| 12:37.36 | Corsac | hmhm |
| 12:37.37 | Corsac | though |
| 12:37.46 | Corsac | a quick magic reveals that http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MUETOCUA/--LID--FiRe1314871641348/DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4-1_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin exists |
| 12:37.50 | DocScrutinizer | http://mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productType=RM-696&releaseID=6324395729&version=10.2011.34.1 |
| 12:38.00 | Corsac | but maybe it's just the same 10.2011.34.1 |
| 12:38.29 | Corsac | yeah, any filename exists |
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| 12:38.53 | DocScrutinizer | wut? lol |
| 12:38.55 | Corsac | there's some clever url redirects, the important parameters are before that, I guess |
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| 12:40.16 | hiemanshu | newer image? |
| 12:40.43 | Corsac | hmhm, kernel didn't change |
| 12:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | http://mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productType=RM-696&productID=4823499691 |
| 12:41.46 | DocScrutinizer | could anybody try to downgrade flash to 34.1? |
| 12:42.14 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 12:43.01 | Corsac | I don't think I'll upgrade on 3G so I'll wait for tonight to upgrade |
| 12:43.20 | kirma | nice N9 with one capability now: by pressing power button, it shows nokia logo |
| 12:43.42 | gri | huh? It always shows the nokia logo when shutting down |
| 12:43.46 | kirma | I'm really impressed by the fact that developer-mode upgrade actually removed base system |
| 12:44.03 | kirma | well, it shows nothing else when I power up... ever :I |
| 12:44.10 | X-Fade | kirma: What did you do? Enable developer mode? |
| 12:44.24 | Corsac | hmhm, no kernel update though |
| 12:44.24 | X-Fade | kirma: And then it didn't boot anymore? |
| 12:44.51 | kirma | actually, the manual upgrade was a bit funny, and after it it suggested upgrading developer mode... well, things started to disappear from menus and so on |
| 12:44.53 | djszapi | have anybody written an account plugin so far ? Seems a bit more work than I thought :p |
| 12:44.55 | w00t | X-Fade: afair, he did a forced upgrade with apt-get |
| 12:44.57 | djszapi | has* |
| 12:45.09 | kirma | planning to reflash once I get the image... |
| 12:45.10 | X-Fade | w00t: That is a recipe for disaster. |
| 12:45.16 | gri | gets http error 404 when doing apt-get update on the n9 :) |
| 12:45.30 | X-Fade | Just because you can, doesn't mean you should :) |
| 12:45.31 | kirma | obviously :) |
| 12:45.43 | kirma | really, not end of the world for me. |
| 12:46.08 | X-Fade | kirma: Did you try NSU? |
| 12:46.28 | Corsac | djszapi: are you trying to create a jabber account plugin? |
| 12:46.33 | kirma | just that the failure mode was almost hilarious |
| 12:46.51 | gri | djszapi: I did create an accounts-ui plugin in qml |
| 12:46.56 | kirma | "I'll upgrade this package - well, not really, but instead I remove the base installation" |
| 12:47.25 | Sput | sounds like something apt would do |
| 12:47.39 | Sput | years ago, it removed X11 when I tried installing qt4. |
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| 12:48.06 | kirma | even better is seeing how things start to disappear from the system live |
| 12:48.25 | kirma | I mean, menus get shorter and whatnot |
| 12:49.09 | xranby | kirma: if for nokia manages to connect to wifi then you might be able to login over ssh |
| 12:49.30 | xranby | and fix this by reinstalling the removed packages |
| 12:49.32 | kirma | I don't believe this phone does anything before I completely reflash it |
| 12:49.46 | kirma | also, it doesn't really matter. less hassle with flasher, I bet. |
| 12:50.12 | xranby | kirma: sure flashing sounds like a safe option |
| 12:50.19 | xranby | to get things working again |
| 12:52.21 | DocScrutinizer | apt-get upgrade -> *deprecated* ... wait this was for fremantle, seems it's still valid |
| 12:52.51 | sandst1 | kirma: reflashed my n9, now the 1.1 update is properly installing. |
| 12:53.17 | flux | it's always sad when a gui tool right-out deprecates a command-line one |
| 12:53.43 | djszapi | Corsac: ocs account plugin |
| 12:53.43 | flux | (instead of building upon the cli tool and improving it in the process) |
| 12:53.47 | djszapi | gri oh col |
| 12:54.02 | djszapi | cool* |
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| 12:54.21 | gri | well not that cool as it's ugly code :P |
| 12:55.19 | Corsac | djszapi: ocs like for the building service? |
| 12:55.28 | DocScrutinizer | kirma: would you try to reflash it with latest available image, right now? |
| 12:56.38 | X-Fade | Corsac: no, same name, different thing. |
| 12:56.52 | DocScrutinizer | flux: aiui that's exactly what at very least fremantle HAM did, it used apt-get via apt-worker thread |
| 12:56.58 | gri | djszapi: I have no idea how to save passwords more secretly than plain text, account creation is simple |
| 12:57.07 | flux | docscrutinizer, but then it did something additional to that in some cases? |
| 12:57.22 | djszapi | Corsac: OCS and OBS. They are different terms :) |
| 12:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | yes, it was "building upon the cli tool and improving it in the process" |
| 12:57.57 | Corsac | ok :) |
| 12:58.12 | Corsac | grmbl, the music player still can't do random album playback :( |
| 12:58.40 | djszapi | Corsac: our last OCS sprint: http://dot.kde.org/2011/05/18/open-collaboration-services-next-sprint :) |
| 12:59.26 | Corsac | k |
| 12:59.28 | DocScrutinizer | the music player has no friggin way to watch the actual playlist, not to think of editing it, or jumping forth (and maybe back) to random positions in the list |
| 12:59.37 | Corsac | djszapi: is it related to the freedombox initiative? |
| 13:00.02 | djszapi | I do not know what freedombox is |
| 13:00.03 | djszapi | sorry. |
| 13:00.19 | Corsac | http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ |
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| 13:01.45 | kirma | DocScrutinizer: well, which/where is latest available image? |
| 13:02.15 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-11-08 13:41:00] <DocScrutinizer> http://mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productType=RM-696&productID=4823499691 |
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| 13:03.12 | flux | docscrutinizer, yes, but it didn't improve the cli tool, but rather did the improving part by itself, in the gui app |
| 13:03.44 | DocScrutinizer | flux: right |
| 13:04.11 | kirma | DocScrutinizer: I think I'm downloading that already |
| 13:04.18 | decibyte | is it really true there's an fm transceiver in n9? ...but no radio app (yet)? |
| 13:04.21 | DocScrutinizer | like does tar for the gzip/bzip etc binaries |
| 13:04.42 | kirma | at least file name matches |
| 13:04.47 | DocScrutinizer | kirma: you're aware of that thread: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4728 ? |
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| 13:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | ForumHandset Firmware flasher for Nokia N9 |
| 13:05.06 | xranby | decibyte: there exist a community made radio app that work on my n9 |
| 13:05.30 | decibyte | xranby: cool. what's it called? |
| 13:06.23 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder if it works without dev-mode enabled |
| 13:06.35 | kirma | hum |
| 13:07.29 | xranby | decibyte: fmrx: http://my-meego.com/downloads/search.php?name=FM%20Radio |
| 13:08.07 | xranby | decibyte: i downloaded .deb file and moved it over to my n9 using a usb cable |
| 13:08.29 | xranby | FM Radio |
| 13:08.48 | xranby | decibyte: its sort of a prototype.. you have to manually tune into the station but it "work" |
| 13:09.01 | xranby | its missing an autotuner |
| 13:09.47 | decibyte | xranby: i'll take a look at it. thanks! |
| 13:10.28 | DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=34639#post34639 >> Either way, one thing is for sure: *It requires developer mode to work.* << |
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| 13:10.39 | xranby | decibyte: remember to plug in earphones, its using its cable for antenna :) |
| 13:11.00 | decibyte | xranby: as the n900 did (and almost every other phone, i guess) |
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| 13:19.19 | gri | LOL, the Nokia.de sites greets with Lumia phones and this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4vkYq8k9aD0 - The voice sounds like it was spoken by a trainee .. |
| 13:19.29 | gri | (well, german video) |
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| 13:33.42 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, and while I don't feel like commenting on that radio app on my-meego: The reason it needs BT enabled is the FMRX control is via same chip interface as BT, so BT needs to be *enabled* to get access to the radio function of the chip |
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| 13:36.12 | xranby | DocScrutinizerthanks, one mosytery explained :) |
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| 13:36.14 | xranby | mystery |
| 13:36.37 | decibyte | i'm just glad to find out it has fm tuner |
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| 13:37.22 | xranby | im looking for a good bluetooth keyboard |
| 13:37.44 | hiemanshu | one that you can duct tape to a N9 :P |
| 13:37.53 | xranby | hiemanshu: yes, preferably |
| 13:38.12 | xranby | or perhaps something i can attach to the arm |
| 13:38.17 | xranby | a startrek |
| 13:38.24 | decibyte | haha |
| 13:38.29 | kirma | yet to try out my el cheapo dealextreme bt keyboard with N9 |
| 13:38.36 | deram | there is few made for iPhone... wonder if those could be modded for N9 form |
| 13:38.57 | xranby | deram: i will check them out they probably work out of the box |
| 13:39.00 | DocScrutinizer | decibyte: it even has a FMTX, technically (though I seem to recall somebody claiming this special chip variant doesn't have it) - anyway it's useless as no antenna connected to the chip's pin, so it will not send *anything* |
| 13:39.14 | hiemanshu | xranby: logitech dinovo |
| 13:39.17 | hiemanshu | or something like that |
| 13:39.20 | deram | http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Case-4G/dp/B004JW4E7U |
| 13:39.24 | deram | this for example |
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| 13:39.56 | DocScrutinizer | I think N9 doesn't work with any hw kbd |
| 13:40.02 | decibyte | DocScrutinizer: i saw that. isn't it just the same as n900? the transmitter wasn't really any good there, i think |
| 13:40.26 | deram | I saw some thread got n9 working with bt-keyboard |
| 13:40.46 | DocScrutinizer | decibyte: on N900 the FMTX was as good as it got designed to be, and it had a PCB antenna |
| 13:40.48 | xranby | hiemanshu: hmm thank you for the link.. i have to be carefull.. in order to get a keyboard with all the important {[]} ; easily accessible |
| 13:41.01 | deram | http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/11/connect-bluetooth-keyboard-n9/ |
| 13:41.08 | xranby | would be hard to run any IDE and code on the phone wihtout them |
| 13:41.28 | decibyte | DocScrutinizer: okay. i only tried it once. the range was about 20cm and quality awful. |
| 13:41.29 | kirma | xranby: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/55401 |
| 13:41.34 | decibyte | *sound quality |
| 13:41.38 | kirma | don't ask me about it being good, but it's cheap :) |
| 13:42.06 | xranby | kirma: looks decent |
| 13:42.15 | gri | djszapi: It's hard to recognize you on the ocs-blog picture :) |
| 13:42.22 | DocScrutinizer | decibyte: well, you can crank up N900 TX power, and by attaching e.g. a USB charger cable and/or headset it gets even stronger |
| 13:42.36 | xranby | deram: thanks nice info |
| 13:42.48 | djszapi | Pap7518 |
| 13:42.56 | decibyte | DocScrutinizer: okay. didn't know that. i doesn't really matter anyways :) |
| 13:42.57 | djszapi | gri why so ? |
| 13:43.10 | decibyte | kirma: does it work with n9? |
| 13:43.19 | gri | djszapi: I wasn't expecting long hair :) |
| 13:43.27 | djszapi | long hair ? |
| 13:43.42 | gri | well, longer than you have now |
| 13:43.52 | kirma | I don't know, but to my knowledge (and as far as I tried quite a time ago), it should be bt (of course dealextreme can ship whatever...) |
| 13:44.00 | xranby | decibyte: looks like whats next to the n9 in this picture but with blue print on the keys http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/11/connect-bluetooth-keyboard-n9/ |
| 13:44.57 | decibyte | xranby: may very well be |
| 13:45.04 | djszapi | gri: :) |
| 13:45.20 | djszapi | is learning designing Ui interfaces :p |
| 13:45.34 | decibyte | speaking of peripherals, how does tv out work? usb-to-hdmi or...? |
| 13:45.37 | gri | djszapi: Wohoo :) |
| 13:45.51 | djszapi | gri: conference tomorrow, too |
| 13:45.56 | djszapi | :) |
| 13:46.05 | gri | about? |
| 13:46.06 | gri | ui? |
| 13:46.23 | djszapi | gri: about many things, but my talk is the opening of the linux mobile session :p |
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| 13:46.33 | djszapi | mobile linux session is the most interesting to me. |
| 13:46.54 | gri | who would have guessed that :P |
| 13:48.12 | gri | the necessitas 0.3 installer always crashes :( |
| 13:48.45 | djszapi | because of aegis ? ;) |
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| 13:51.09 | gri | djszapi: my guess or the crash? |
| 13:51.27 | djszapi | gri: There is no central point of integration, i.e. presence-ui grabs information of it's interest from accounts db, thus to know how to extend it, I would need to know what is uses. Ppreferably access to presence ui sources or docs. |
| 13:51.44 | djszapi | gri: do not think that much, if android installer crashes, it must be aegis. It is that simple ;-) |
| 13:52.12 | gri | djszapi: Yeah, they somehow managed to get aegis into my ubuntu vm :D |
| 13:52.14 | DocScrutinizer | smiles like a clam at >>according to ***http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth***, it possible with dbus...<< at http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=34131#post34131 |
| 13:52.25 | djszapi | gri: There was some big idea of making accounts lib transparent to any ui workflow, so it only serves some very basic purposes, like enumerating accounts, and then you read xml directly. |
| 13:53.25 | djszapi | gri: I feel really bad, that I do not actually know what are those xml tags. There is even "plugin writing guide" in libaccounts-ui code. It has about page of text... one xml example, not much description. I guess I'll be reading thru its code next: to see if I can know anything |
| 13:53.47 | gri | djszapi: I also found that once |
| 13:53.58 | gri | I wrote to alberto margedan (listed as author) |
| 13:54.07 | gri | he replied he has quit Nokia ... |
| 13:54.19 | djszapi | big surprise :) |
| 13:54.46 | matrixx | djszapi: do you know if registration is still ongoing on the 14:00 coffee break tomorrow? |
| 13:55.14 | djszapi | matrixx: I think it was closed on Monday morning. You might join anytime, but you do not get this attendee package. |
| 13:55.15 | matrixx | I can't make to register earlier |
| 13:55.33 | alterego | Urgh: https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/PageStackWindow.qml#line137 |
| 13:55.35 | matrixx | djszapi: I've been registering, but I mean where can I get my badge |
| 13:55.48 | gri | djszapi: Since I did not know how to use libaccounts-ui, I just created the provider xml, created a qml plugin for accounts and wrote the account editing ui with qml |
| 13:55.52 | djszapi | matrixx: ohh, not sure. :) Can you ask Sergey please ? |
| 13:55.59 | matrixx | I'll email him |
| 13:56.00 | matrixx | thanks |
| 13:56.01 | alterego | That is probably one of the ugliest lines of code I've seen in a while, I find it kind of weird that it's valid. |
| 13:56.28 | djszapi | gri: was it a big job ? |
| 13:56.44 | gri | Not really |
| 13:57.52 | gri | when the accounts-ui starts your application, you can receive all data by creating a ProviderPluginProxy (or whatever it was called, don't have the exact name here) |
| 13:58.09 | gri | it tells you whether the Account* you got is going to be created or an existing one |
| 13:59.02 | kirma | ah, reflashing helped at least a bit. yet to see how much. |
| 14:00.27 | alterego | export AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN=com.nokia.maemo; dpkg --force -i qt-components_1.2~git20111102-2_armel.deb |
| 14:00.31 | alterego | bawlz |
| 14:00.40 | gri | djszapi: If the community repository is up, we could also create a generic accounts qml plugin so that someone who wants to create a ui only needs to supply .qml files |
| 14:01.44 | kirma | now it keeps cycling the "working" indicator, for many minutes already. wonder what's going on... |
| 14:08.08 | DocScrutinizer | kirma: setup |
| 14:08.50 | DocScrutinizer | or rather formatting/flashing the bigger chunks of eMMC |
| 14:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | I'd not mess with it for at least 30 min - though I never seen this on N9(50) with my ~2 flashings so far |
| 14:11.32 | DocScrutinizer | (note that my prev posts were mere guesswork about what's going on) |
| 14:13.53 | flux | is there such a thing as a gift card to ovi store? |
| 14:14.48 | Corsac | btw, besides 'ip' in terminal, is there a way to know the current ip address? |
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| 14:15.27 | RST38h | moo, rm_you |
| 14:15.58 | qronic | well, I've tried several times, cleaned /var/cache/apt/archives/ - nada. I'll wait for firmware&flasher stand-alone |
| 14:16.09 | rm_work | moo RST38h |
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| 14:16.56 | kirma | hmmh. I suppose the flasher image was PR1.0. now fetching updates again... |
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| 14:18.02 | flux | heh, ovi store says to me "Hello, Anonymous" after signing in, I guess they figured my secret identity.. |
| 14:19.08 | sandst1 | kirma: yep. same here |
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| 14:25.32 | kirma | I get the feeling the PR1.1 update fails *again* for me... soon |
| 14:25.43 | kirma | stuck on 0% |
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| 14:28.15 | javispedro | Corsac, one thing re your open kernel thing, have you tried doing flasher -k zImage-.... -l -b ? |
| 14:28.24 | javispedro | Corsac, instead of -l -b -k zImage-... as you do now? |
| 14:28.58 | sandst1 | kirma: did you do a cold flash..? |
| 14:29.21 | javispedro | fails to remember if the order of args in flasher is important |
| 14:29.23 | kirma | no, but non-cold flash did recover the device into otherwise reasonable state |
| 14:29.33 | kirma | maybe I'll copy the damn backup now and cold flash it |
| 14:29.47 | sandst1 | kirma: i first did a non-cold flash, and upgrade failed (stuck on 0%), after a cold-flash it worked |
| 14:29.54 | sandst1 | javispedro: not important |
| 14:30.18 | kirma | the positive side is that backups are still there |
| 14:30.37 | javispedro | hmh |
| 14:30.40 | sandst1 | kirma: yeap. it's not touching the emmc at all |
| 14:31.11 | kirma | where those backups are? accessible in usb storage mode or not? |
| 14:31.58 | petteri | for me it stood about 15 minutes in 0% |
| 14:32.37 | sandst1 | kirma: /home/user/MyDocs/.backups |
| 14:37.01 | kirma | ... aand cold-flashing after backup. |
| 14:37.08 | DocScrutinizer | coldflash is useless |
| 14:37.17 | DocScrutinizer | for your problem at least |
| 14:37.38 | kirma | ehm hm |
| 14:37.53 | javispedro | has anyone seen a notification appearing on the lock screen, but then going into the messages/phonelog application and the message/missed call NOT being there? |
| 14:38.21 | kirma | DocScrutinizer: sandst1 has different experience. well, let's see. |
| 14:38.29 | Corsac | javispedro: let me check |
| 14:38.45 | Corsac | javispedro: yes |
| 14:39.08 | Corsac | (for the flasher thing, not for the notification) |
| 14:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | coldflash simply means it's not using the device NOLO but rather loads an auxiliary NOLO to RAM of device and executes that one to flasg a new NOLO to device |
| 14:39.19 | javispedro | :S |
| 14:39.25 | kirma | hmh. |
| 14:39.28 | Corsac | javispedro: I'll try the kernel flash once updated to PR1.1 too |
| 14:39.36 | javispedro | by then it'll surely not work |
| 14:39.39 | Corsac | javispedro: but are you aware to successful kernel flashs to N9? |
| 14:39.46 | javispedro | Corsac, you have several on the same thread |
| 14:39.49 | Corsac | well, the kernels source are identical |
| 14:39.55 | Corsac | (at least beta2/beta3) |
| 14:39.58 | javispedro | nope |
| 14:40.01 | javispedro | LOCALVERSION differs ;P |
| 14:40.04 | qronic | update goes like this: |
| 14:40.04 | qronic | 15882 root sh -c /usr/bin/aegis-origin '/var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb' |
| 14:40.05 | qronic | 15883 root /usr/bin/aegis-origin /var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb |
| 14:40.05 | qronic | 15884 root sh -c aegis-deb-release /var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb |
| 14:40.06 | qronic | 15885 root aegis-deb-release /var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb |
| 14:40.12 | Corsac | javispedro: hmmh |
| 14:40.17 | qronic | it install apps but % is 0 |
| 14:40.23 | Corsac | javispedro: the debian versions were the same :/ |
| 14:40.39 | javispedro | hm?? |
| 14:40.41 | javispedro | they are not |
| 14:40.46 | javispedro | you have a N9? |
| 14:40.49 | qronic | no logs so far found, /var/log/apt/term.log has nothing about this |
| 14:40.49 | Corsac | yes |
| 14:41.01 | Corsac | javispedro: I mean http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta2/free/k/kernel/ vs http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/k/kernel/ |
| 14:41.02 | qronic | boom, failed |
| 14:41.32 | javispedro | Corsac, "20113701" here |
| 14:41.43 | Corsac | what?! |
| 14:41.44 | MohammadAG | oh hey, Nokia didn't take javispedro after all |
| 14:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: eh? |
| 14:42.05 | Corsac | javispedro: on your N9 or on the website? |
| 14:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | and hi1 |
| 14:42.14 | javispedro | Corsac, on my PR1.1 N950 |
| 14:42.17 | Corsac | ha |
| 14:42.26 | javispedro | Corsac, seemingly they've just copied beta2 folder |
| 14:42.30 | Corsac | yeah |
| 14:42.31 | javispedro | Corsac, maybe they're still uploading |
| 14:43.04 | Corsac | I think I'll find the GPL contact addres if there's any and ask for it, once upgraded :) |
| 14:43.06 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade said "still uploading" - for the SDK though iirc |
| 14:43.14 | Corsac | ha. thanks |
| 14:43.43 | Corsac | I'm still a bit puzzled to that beta-naming, but hey :) |
| 14:45.30 | Corsac | javispedro: btw, on your n950, does accli -I returns “open mode” with a vanilla kernel? |
| 14:45.39 | javispedro | yep |
| 14:45.44 | Corsac | ok |
| 14:52.44 | Corsac | javispedro: I'm still puzzled about the signed module loading though |
| 14:53.05 | Corsac | javispedro: aiui from the thread, just rebuilding the kernel should just work, no need to disable aegis or so |
| 14:53.35 | javispedro | Corsac, and it does |
| 14:53.44 | javispedro | Corsac, the modules don't change, so the checksums match. |
| 14:54.58 | Corsac | yeah, but http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=34657&postcount=144 confused me |
| 14:54.58 | DocScrutinizer | the funny part was the missing warning on N9 |
| 14:55.38 | Corsac | especially since that's where you have a warranty to void :) |
| 14:56.06 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 14:56.43 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seems you missed 3 posts |
| 14:56.52 | djszapi | aheinecke: do you have libkdeedu packaged for harmattan ? |
| 14:57.04 | aheinecke | djszapi: no |
| 14:57.21 | sandst1 | so. root ssh is disabled. ssh developer@<ip> works, devel-su doesn't work, nor with the pwd i had, neither with 'rootme'. any ideas..? |
| 14:57.35 | *** join/#harmattan milot (~Milot@46.99.251.13) |
| 14:57.44 | *** join/#harmattan baraujo (~Bruno@189.2.128.130) |
| 14:57.45 | aheinecke | djszapi: but i think it was packaged for fremantle i belive someone had marble running on an n900 |
| 14:58.08 | djszapi | aheinecke: marble used pure Qt on mobile. |
| 14:58.20 | aheinecke | ah ok |
| 14:58.30 | djszapi | but for kanagram, I need it :/ |
| 15:00.17 | sandst1 | you people still have devel-su working after pr 1.1? |
| 15:00.31 | jonni | sandst1: works for me atleast |
| 15:00.38 | djszapi | so what happened with this repository ? http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ |
| 15:00.42 | DocScrutinizer | jonni: sshhh |
| 15:00.45 | javispedro | Corsac, as I've said, you void the warranty by doing _anything_ |
| 15:01.05 | Corsac | yeah, but there's no warranty on n950, is there? |
| 15:01.12 | javispedro | Corsac, that includes booting a kernel you built yourself using the same config and sources. |
| 15:01.13 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 15:01.23 | Corsac | so it's funny that a “warranty voided” warning is displayed on n950 and not on n9 |
| 15:01.46 | djszapi | it is on N9 too |
| 15:02.03 | javispedro | djszapi, for some reason it is not shown on some retail N9s |
| 15:02.19 | sandst1 | DocScrutinizer: thanks |
| 15:02.22 | djszapi | I know the reason, but cannot really talk about it |
| 15:02.31 | javispedro | but I guess that'd be swiftly fixed in the next PR. |
| 15:03.23 | sandst1 | jonni: ok. hmm.. |
| 15:03.47 | kirma | heh. finally it's upgrading... |
| 15:04.05 | kirma | I wonder what config file is exactly the cause for this. maybe some extra repo? |
| 15:04.24 | djszapi | anybody willing to help with packaging ? |
| 15:04.47 | kirma | (this time I didn't recover anything from backup image before upgrade... and of course I should have done that after first reflash already) |
| 15:04.52 | sandst1 | kirma: could be. my cold flashing deduction wasn't exactly waterproof :) |
| 15:05.15 | djszapi | aheinecke: helping with packaging some dependency for kdeeud ? :) |
| 15:05.16 | ArkanoiD_ | hmm, for some unknown reason "swipe down to close" gesture became extremely unreliable on my phone |
| 15:05.17 | djszapi | kdeedu* |
| 15:05.29 | ArkanoiD_ | it works as tap to a random place on screen |
| 15:05.34 | ArkanoiD_ | *very* annoying |
| 15:05.35 | javispedro | heh |
| 15:05.36 | SpeedEvil | ArkanoiD_: you know about portrait apps? |
| 15:05.48 | SpeedEvil | or landscape ones |
| 15:05.58 | aheinecke | djszapi: sorry working atm, what do you need packaged? |
| 15:05.58 | SpeedEvil | It's a swipe down in their orientation. |
| 15:05.58 | javispedro | on my N950 since PR1.1 it seems to follow the _real_ orientation instead of the current window one |
| 15:06.12 | javispedro | so even on portrait only apps you have to swipe "sideways" |
| 15:06.14 | djszapi | aheinecke: just look at the kdeedu packages, and everything which is missing |
| 15:06.18 | djszapi | package* |
| 15:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seen sth like that as well here |
| 15:07.05 | DocScrutinizer | on N9 |
| 15:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | was somewhat confusing and not exactly reproducable iirc |
| 15:08.09 | javispedro | it is fully reproduceable here |
| 15:08.12 | javispedro | with twitter app for ex. |
| 15:08.23 | javispedro | eer |
| 15:08.24 | javispedro | scrap that. |
| 15:08.51 | javispedro | with the clock app for ex, try to close it. |
| 15:09.46 | javispedro | you have to swipe from the "real" top edge instead of the current window's top edge. So if you hold the device in landscape, you have to swipe "sideways" |
| 15:10.01 | DocScrutinizer | N9 says "remaining standby time: 17 days" |
| 15:10.04 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 15:10.19 | DocScrutinizer | AMOLED is *nice*, in some respects |
| 15:11.02 | *** join/#harmattan CepiPerez (~matias@190.221.197.125) |
| 15:12.34 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: yup |
| 15:12.52 | frals | yeah whats considered "top" was argued quite a bit... |
| 15:13.29 | frals | someone probably had reason for making it not "whever the the application layout says top is" but... yeah |
| 15:13.48 | Corsac | javispedro: hmhm, I seem to be able to boot sashz kernel (though I don't have CAP::dac_override) |
| 15:14.03 | djszapi | aheinecke: http://kde.garage.maemo.org/screenshots_kdeedu.html -> There must be kde edu packages somewhere. |
| 15:15.28 | *** part/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 15:16.06 | aheinecke | djszapi: found something http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Marble/MaemoPackaging |
| 15:18.39 | Corsac | javispedro: ok in fact, -b doesn't seem enough (or I'm just dumb) |
| 15:18.47 | djszapi | aheinecke: that is just marble. |
| 15:18.56 | javispedro | ? |
| 15:19.01 | Corsac | javispedro: I flash my kernel, it boots, then stops to “charging” icon, then if I ask to boot, it's indeed my kernel |
| 15:19.13 | Corsac | (though, here, the device rebooted itself after some time :/) |
| 15:22.23 | deram | hardware watchdog? those reset the chip if software does not request not to in time |
| 15:22.33 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 15:24.48 | gri | When I change the language on the N9 it reboots without asking for my PIN - is the "session" active as long as there's power is on the sim card? |
| 15:24.57 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (4e0d6d74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.109.116) |
| 15:25.08 | faenil | still no pr1.1 :( |
| 15:25.09 | gri | (ignore last "is") |
| 15:25.16 | faenil | o/ gri |
| 15:25.24 | gri | faenil: You got pr 1.1 on your n950 :) |
| 15:25.34 | faenil | ) |
| 15:25.54 | faenil | but n950 is my dev device :P It's not starting atm, have a broken nemo image on it :P |
| 15:29.02 | jabis | PR 1.1 - there nao where is the image -.- |
| 15:29.32 | DocScrutinizer | gri: I seem to have witnessed even ssh wifi logins to survive a "reboot" which was actually just a initstate switch to act_dead aka charging |
| 15:29.43 | DocScrutinizer | sth like that |
| 15:30.33 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 15:30.50 | deram | pin query is done by sim-card, so if the sim thinks phone has been on all the time, there is no reason to ask it again |
| 15:31.33 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@vpn0.futurice.com) |
| 15:32.10 | DocScrutinizer | yoh |
| 15:36.56 | npm | does this n9 update ( http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/11/nokia-n9-update-20-2011-40-4/ ) also run on n950? |
| 15:37.24 | javispedro | you willing to sacrifice a n950 to test? :D |
| 15:37.32 | npm | nope |
| 15:38.13 | Corsac | javispedro: btw, do you know if there's a way to rebuild kernel using direct cross compile? |
| 15:38.28 | npm | at some point i need to upgrade it, but i've been focusing on getting out http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/ in record time |
| 15:40.14 | npm | now i guess i have to respond to those that don't understand release early and release often and say "fredericobsantos on a Nokia N9 1 day ago Has potential but right now its too overly complex for something that should simplify your life." <-- dude, get an iphone :-) |
| 15:40.56 | javispedro | Corsac, sure, you are cross compiling when using scratchbox =) |
| 15:41.43 | Corsac | yeah, but scratchbox is a pain, and it's a bit slow because it uses cpu transparency through qemu |
| 15:42.08 | javispedro | that's not entirely true -- it's cross compiling |
| 15:42.30 | Corsac | so the gcc binaries are native ones, not armel ones? |
| 15:42.31 | qronic | guys, deleted repos, apt-get update, reset, and updates goes!! |
| 15:42.33 | javispedro | it's using qemu to run a few binaries that generate some source in the kernel |
| 15:42.36 | javispedro | Corsac, yes. |
| 15:43.14 | Corsac | ok, thanks :) |
| 15:44.08 | npm | i'm not sure steve jobs would have allowed siri to do this :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCNwRXQFcdw |
| 15:45.13 | javispedro | npm, I had quite a lot of fun trying to get sphinx to recognize a single word :) |
| 15:45.28 | gri | qronic: That's why my n9 has a 404 when doing apt-get update? |
| 15:45.39 | qronic | I deleted not all repos |
| 15:45.47 | gri | Packages is 404 |
| 15:45.49 | gri | all others not |
| 15:45.50 | qronic | but only those that I've added: unofficial |
| 15:46.11 | qronic | so there just 2 files aegis**** oso.bin or whatever |
| 15:46.17 | qronic | left |
| 15:47.23 | npm | javispedro: that's why you shold try out voicetogoog.... whenever it misunderstands things it ends up being the most poetic combination of #trending babble , plus whatever google seems to be fishing off of porn sites.... |
| 15:47.44 | *** join/#harmattan artemma_ (~artemma@xdsl-84-20-143-145.nebulazone.fi) |
| 15:47.51 | npm | although when you speak clearly and there's not a lot of background noise, it is very effective |
| 15:48.06 | npm | but in a car, with the windows open, pure cyber poetry |
| 15:49.09 | faenil | gri: let me know if you get it to update ;) |
| 15:49.50 | javispedro | npm, btw, I write a Maliit input plugin to add dictation support to all harmattan apps using pocketsphinx |
| 15:49.53 | javispedro | npm, https://gitorious.org/javispedro-n950-misc/maesphinx |
| 15:50.04 | gri | qronic: http://pastebin.com/X2d2mXnM you did not do anything to these, right? :) |
| 15:50.09 | javispedro | npm, sphinx seems to be rather useless here but maybe google's service is more accurate and you might be interested |
| 15:50.11 | qronic | gri: btw, I've also activated flight-mode b4 running update and turned wi-fi on |
| 15:50.21 | javispedro | (I'm personally not happy with sending my voice to google though :P ) |
| 15:50.31 | snowpong | looking into aegis stuff, is it so that manifest.aegis is auto-copied by Creator to myapp.aegis when doing a build, and therefore I should edit manifest.aegis and not into myapp.aegis directly? .... |
| 15:50.35 | qronic | fri: correct |
| 15:50.53 | qronic | gri: correct |
| 15:50.56 | npm | javispedro: i will soon have sourcecode, it would be very interesting to to have an alternate "backend" for voicetogoog for when offline |
| 15:51.22 | javispedro | npm, I'm thinking the opposite; using google as a backend for a maliit dictation plugin |
| 15:51.39 | npm | then just hit the "(re)transcribe selection(s)" menu command on the ones that sphinx didn't get |
| 15:52.16 | qronic | gri: I've actually checked my /etc/apt/sources.conf.d folder when deleted unofficial repos |
| 15:52.18 | npm | javispedro: well i'll publish source soon and then you can grab my QML/C++ for talking to google |
| 15:52.56 | gri | qronic: Well ok, I don't have any unofficial repos on the N9 - that's why I wonder it's getting 404 |
| 15:52.58 | javispedro | npm, ah, nice |
| 15:53.00 | ieatlint | 40-4 is definitely better, but can't get wifi hotspot app to work on n9 now :( |
| 15:53.30 | npm | i've been planning on repackaging it in some way so it can be made available with a "microphone button" on a webkit searchbar or the platform QML vkb |
| 15:53.57 | qronic | gri: if it don't work then I would suggest reboot/try tomorrow/try again, if you don't want to make hard reset |
| 15:54.29 | javispedro | npm, by a "maliit plugin" I mean that, an alternate vkb that you can swipe (as you can do with swype on pr1.1) |
| 15:54.30 | faenil | I hope they have not screwed kinetic scrolling in n9 pr1.1 |
| 15:54.32 | faenil | as they have done with n950 pr 1.1 |
| 15:54.39 | npm | and behind the scenes, it could still be writing the voicetogoog sqlite database entries for voice entries, so you could have a history of what voice input you didn, and what command it launched |
| 15:55.04 | npm | if anybody has suggestios on inplementing the "what command it launched" part.... |
| 15:55.15 | npm | s/implementing |
| 15:55.18 | npm | s/suggestions |
| 15:55.23 | ieatlint | faenil: i've not noticed a broken kinetic scrolling on either 39-4 or 40-4.. how do you mean? |
| 15:55.44 | faenil | well it's handled differently...worse imho |
| 15:55.48 | faenil | and there is some bug |
| 15:55.52 | ieatlint | also, in my limited observations, i see no differences between 39-4 and 40-4, so if there's any difference at all, must be small bug fixes |
| 15:55.54 | faenil | when swiping through the homescreens |
| 15:56.00 | faenil | if you do it fast |
| 15:56.29 | faenil | the one in pr1.1 is less responsive, and gives more of a "fluid" effect... |
| 15:56.36 | javispedro | npm, either way, interesting app you have there :) |
| 15:56.38 | npm | ^^ re "what command it launched' is there a way to find out what the current "document" URL, email message id, or folder etc you're looking at on harmattan? |
| 15:56.38 | faenil | it's a choice, a bad one imho...apart from that little bug |
| 15:57.23 | npm | javispedro: thanks... i could use some help... then again, i need to get the damn source out so that i can take someone up on their offer to port to symbian |
| 15:57.59 | *** join/#harmattan vladest (~Vlad@195.238.92.177) |
| 15:58.28 | gri | faenil: The worst thing in 1.1 is: The twitter client's sectionscroller seems to slow down the whole ui when scrolling :) |
| 15:59.03 | npm | hm, interesting, javispedro ... i saw the "Meego IM Framework" and thought it was more for text messaging |
| 15:59.35 | npm | what makes a lot of sense is to use voice for inputting chinese. |
| 15:59.54 | faenil | gri: I still wonder why facebook and twitter clients lag so much ... |
| 16:00.02 | npm | the only problem -- someone please explain cuz i thought n9 available in china -- is china is the one country that voicetogoog has not been downloaded in |
| 16:00.04 | faenil | and phonebook too... |
| 16:00.10 | faenil | I mean, come on...:( |
| 16:00.33 | faenil | and another BIG question I'd like to ask is |
| 16:00.46 | npm | is nokia store available in china? or is google voice input blocked ? (i thought it wasn't) |
| 16:00.52 | faenil | Why does everything goes down to 10-5fps when the notification bar is open?? |
| 16:01.08 | javispedro | because it starts compositing |
| 16:01.13 | javispedro | same as if you hit the volume buttons |
| 16:01.35 | faenil | exactly... |
| 16:01.42 | faenil | that REALLY sucks... |
| 16:01.58 | faenil | I don't think that's the only possible way to do that |
| 16:02.04 | faenil | I just don't believe that... |
| 16:02.38 | gri | faenil: Saw the twitter client of a friend on htc sense today ... harmattan is much faster and he's jealous :P |
| 16:03.01 | javispedro | faenil, I don't have an iPhone or Android device to check, but I know the exact same thing happens on webOS for example. |
| 16:03.06 | faenil | gri: wow, guess who coded that twitter then :) |
| 16:03.32 | qronic | updated, hooray! |
| 16:03.34 | faenil | javispedro: this is really disappointing... |
| 16:03.47 | javispedro | faenil, it also happens when you start swiping |
| 16:03.58 | faenil | what do you mean? |
| 16:04.16 | *** join/#harmattan jreznik (jreznik@nat/redhat/x-ixmorwzijvafngch) |
| 16:04.21 | javispedro | the moment the window is slightly offsetted when the swipe animation starts, compositor also turns on |
| 16:04.26 | javispedro | thus fps reduced |
| 16:04.50 | faenil | yeah, but that's not as noticeable |
| 16:05.00 | npm | the compositing issue doesn't seem to be happening in http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1.11.1_armel.deb |
| 16:05.15 | faenil | I mean, if you're doing something, and you receive an sms,... you understand it because everything starts lagging |
| 16:05.24 | javispedro | faenil, then you are seeing a different problem I guess. |
| 16:05.29 | npm | when diddling the volume control while playing video |
| 16:05.36 | faenil | ...I haven't seen this on other platforms,notifications don't cause lags.. |
| 16:05.38 | npm | lemme try w/ something more "framy" |
| 16:05.49 | javispedro | npm, it is not an "issue", it's just reduced framerate. Same thing happens on the N900. |
| 16:06.26 | faenil | javispedro: I think we're talking about the same thing :) |
| 16:06.28 | npm | oh is see it |
| 16:06.46 | npm | it seems most;ly to happen at startup as it gets rescaled |
| 16:07.12 | npm | and then if you leave it up it restabilizes |
| 16:07.47 | npm | (tests w/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtBbinpK5XI ) |
| 16:08.25 | faenil | javispedro: if you scroll in phonebook and open notification bar, you see that the framerate is always reduced not only in the moment you open the bar |
| 16:09.57 | javispedro | well opening the notification area seems to use some lots of CPU early on |
| 16:10.00 | npm | oh yeah flickable is affected a lot worse than video |
| 16:10.03 | faenil | is the notification bar drawn by the raster engine? |
| 16:10.12 | javispedro | I guess that could be fixable, the rest probably not. |
| 16:10.33 | javispedro | either way, I guess you should be thankful scrolling is smooth at all. |
| 16:10.50 | gri | npm: "Video not available in your country. It violates GEMA's rights." |
| 16:10.50 | faenil | except it's not :D |
| 16:11.09 | npm | doh! |
| 16:11.17 | gri | germany sucks :/ |
| 16:11.25 | npm | sorry for the tease. i guess they don't want you to see what it looks like in LA |
| 16:12.31 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@catv-80-98-229-28.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 16:12.31 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 16:12.57 | faenil | javispedro: why can't that be fixed? |
| 16:13.12 | npm | gri: http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/08/video-red-hot-chili-peppers-the-adventures-of-rain-dance-maggie/ |
| 16:13.23 | faenil | I mean flickable elements are very smooth...it all depends and what you put in them,... |
| 16:13.39 | npm | gri: i assure you the US sucks more :-) |
| 16:14.25 | gri | npm: Ok, then youtube for germans suck because you're not allowed to watch music videos (not their fault) |
| 16:14.41 | npm | all music videos? |
| 16:14.49 | gri | not all, but many |
| 16:15.03 | gri | even if the artist wants to publish it :) |
| 16:16.29 | gri | npm: http://www.tgdaily.com/business-and-law-features/41913-youtube-blocks-gema-music-videos-in-germany |
| 16:17.59 | *** join/#harmattan briglia (~briglia@217.200.185.46) |
| 16:20.34 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: how did you solve the context problem in your maliit plugin? |
| 16:22.25 | jabis | f*ng updater fails all the time |
| 16:23.14 | DocScrutinizer | you'd want to use specific dictionaries depending on context aka "where's the focus? what apps are running in background?" |
| 16:24.54 | Venemo | hi guys |
| 16:25.10 | DocScrutinizer | hi Venemo |
| 16:25.25 | Venemo | hey DocScrutinizer, how're you? |
| 16:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | tired |
| 16:26.54 | Corsac | javispedro: uh, I think I might do something weird, did you experience at one point a "scripts/basic/fixdeps: No such file or directory" when building the kernel? (tried on a fresh scratchbox, apt-get source kernel / dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc) |
| 16:27.27 | npm | gri... ok that does suck... |
| 16:27.52 | javispedro | faenil, because when compositing, there's an extra rasterization, so it will by definition be always slower than non-compositing |
| 16:28.21 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer, remember I only do dictation, so I use a generic dictation dictionary. |
| 16:28.24 | npm | re updating N950: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=34666&postcount=3 |
| 16:28.27 | faenil | that's ok...but so slower...like from 60 to 10... |
| 16:28.27 | javispedro | Corsac, no... |
| 16:28.36 | javispedro | faenil, in truth it's like half the framerate. |
| 16:28.47 | faenil | whaat :O |
| 16:28.55 | faenil | so it's usually scrolling at like 24fps? |
| 16:28.59 | faenil | that doesn't seem like it :O |
| 16:29.00 | npm | so what does the author of http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=34666&postcount=3 mean by "had to wipe the device clean" before succeeding |
| 16:29.26 | X-Fade | He used some windex and a cotton cloth? |
| 16:29.35 | *** join/#harmattan deimos (~deimos@95.236.70.212) |
| 16:29.44 | X-Fade | That must be it :) |
| 16:30.02 | javispedro | looks at his n950 and wishes he had windex and cotton around |
| 16:30.02 | npm | oh misunderstood.... the author talking about same problem on n9 as n950 update, not using n9 update on n950 |
| 16:30.44 | Corsac | javispedro: damn, how did I manage to do that ¬¬ |
| 16:31.42 | Venemo | npm, reflash? |
| 16:31.50 | *** part/#harmattan mtnbkr (~mtnbkr@75.150.91.17) |
| 16:31.51 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, yeah, I'm tired too |
| 16:31.58 | jabis | only thing OTA did before failing was turn of sshd - f*ing brilliant |
| 16:32.18 | npm | javispedro: if you do a lot of dictation, i'd love to get some feedback on how voicetogoog works for you in spanish |
| 16:33.09 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 16:33.13 | npm | Venemo: so if i'm going to reflash my n950 is http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ still the thing to use, or one of the n9 updates?? |
| 16:33.39 | Venemo | npm, I'm not sure, but I do think that 39-5 is still the latest software for da N950 |
| 16:33.47 | npm | k |
| 16:34.19 | berndhs | 39-5 seems to break some things |
| 16:34.25 | Venemo | berndhs, for example? |
| 16:34.48 | javispedro | google talk! |
| 16:34.48 | berndhs | in my case, twitter and Ovi store |
| 16:35.02 | berndhs | breaking their own store is particularly alarming :) |
| 16:35.15 | jonni | usually its ssu update which breaks things and using flasher to flash works better. |
| 16:35.19 | Corsac | javispedro: ah, understood, the binary is native and it somehow doesn't find the transparency setting or so |
| 16:35.39 | DocScrutinizer | so you all updated your N9s to a FW rev that, when MALF or bootlooping, is impossible to "unbrick"? Or did somebody check if you could use the procedure and files as of http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4728 to flash this 40-4 to DFL61_HARMATTAN_10.2011.34-1 ? Or is there even a 40-4 image available meanwhile? |
| 16:35.53 | berndhs | I used the flasher from the download link in the topic |
| 16:36.50 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: I didn't upgraded yet :) |
| 16:37.06 | DocScrutinizer | berndhs: on N9? |
| 16:37.12 | berndhs | 950 |
| 16:37.24 | DocScrutinizer | ooh, sorry |
| 16:37.58 | Venemo | berndhs, it didn't break anything for me. |
| 16:38.23 | berndhs | Venemo: that's nice |
| 16:38.23 | Venemo | but generally the old truth is still true, you're better off with reflashing than with OTA. |
| 16:38.52 | Venemo | berndhs, only thing that wasn't very good about my 39-5 OTA is that I needed to reinstall a bunch of packages to get the developer mode working properly. |
| 16:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | so *where* to get a 40-4 image? |
| 16:39.05 | Venemo | is there 40-4? for N950? :O wow |
| 16:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | no, for N9! |
| 16:39.19 | qronic | you can download all the packages that come in OTA update |
| 16:39.22 | Venemo | who cares about N9? |
| 16:39.27 | qronic | somebody zipped them |
| 16:39.27 | berndhs | Venemo: yes the re-enable of developer has to be done 1 package at a time, takes a while |
| 16:39.57 | Venemo | berndhs, well it worked for me to reinstall a couple of them at once. of course I needed a reboot. |
| 16:40.35 | jabis | I care about N9 goddamnit -.- |
| 16:41.04 | berndhs | I care about N9, about hunger in Africa, wars in the middle east,... |
| 16:41.11 | Venemo | well ok, I was just being jealous. |
| 16:41.21 | psycho_oreos | jealous when you have N950? |
| 16:41.48 | jabis | I care that the OTA failed and shat bricks on sshd |
| 16:42.28 | berndhs | yeah that's a negative thing |
| 16:42.37 | Corsac | javispedro: fwiw, having both sbox and qemu-user-static installed was the problem |
| 16:42.48 | jabis | now I'm having an interesting looping-issue with 3G & WLAN battling over who's to connect |
| 16:43.42 | qronic | how did they disabled root ssh account? |
| 16:43.52 | qronic | PermitRottLogin set to yes and still... |
| 16:44.14 | DocScrutinizer | allowed-users |
| 16:44.15 | faenil | have you tried with root@127.0.0.1? |
| 16:44.17 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 16:44.59 | qronic | root@127.0.0.1's password: |
| 16:44.59 | qronic | Permission denied, please try again. |
| 16:45.03 | djszapi | qronic: very easily. |
| 16:45.08 | qronic | AllowUsers *@127.0.0.1 *@10.0.0.0/8 *@172.16.0.0/12 *@192.168.0.0/16 |
| 16:45.11 | qronic | which is ok |
| 16:45.15 | djszapi | qronic: root ssh makes zero sense |
| 16:45.25 | macmaN | geez people |
| 16:45.33 | qronic | I like it, I can do more things being root than user without devel-su |
| 16:45.39 | macmaN | why are you not making life easier for yourself, enable user@ ssh |
| 16:45.40 | macmaN | http://goo.gl/g44iJ |
| 16:45.46 | djszapi | qronic: no, you are not root |
| 16:45.51 | djszapi | you are developer .. |
| 16:46.03 | djszapi | do not mix up the bits. |
| 16:46.36 | qronic | ok, b4 PR1.1 id told me uid=0(root), that's it, now it can't be achieved ithout devel-su |
| 16:46.52 | *** join/#harmattan dragly (~svennard@login1.uio.no) |
| 16:46.57 | qronic | I guess they patched sshd code to deny root logins |
| 16:47.03 | djszapi | no, we did not. |
| 16:47.16 | qronic | ok, would you mind sharing how it's done? |
| 16:47.19 | jabis | I'm now no-one as I can't do jackshit - N9 pushes me to flight mode and WLAN showing 0 bars and 3G won't connect either \o/ whoo-fucking-ray |
| 16:47.21 | macmaN | my main gripe right now is how gps apps like foursquare cant get position when background connections are turned off |
| 16:47.27 | djszapi | it is actually very simple generic linux skill |
| 16:48.06 | qronic | emm, I have generic skills ) |
| 16:48.14 | qronic | key auth would work? |
| 16:48.22 | macmaN | qronic: of course |
| 16:48.27 | macmaN | qronic: http://goo.gl/g44iJ |
| 16:48.29 | frals | it adds disable root login flag in the start up script |
| 16:48.29 | qronic | with root account? |
| 16:48.37 | frals | unless you have rdc, which you dont |
| 16:48.40 | macmaN | both with root and user |
| 16:48.44 | qronic | <macmaN>, thanks |
| 16:49.40 | jabis | I'm having Updating: 0% until fails and reboot is needed -.- \o/ resetting the phone, to see wtf is up |
| 16:49.46 | qronic | though, there's "user" user enabling howto |
| 16:50.17 | qronic | <frals>: could you point at that script? |
| 16:51.02 | djszapi | qronic: you cannot modify startup scripts anyway |
| 16:51.16 | qronic | that's ok, just curious |
| 16:51.31 | frals | qronic: i think aegis is enforcing some retarded policy so its gonna bite you in the ass if you mess with it |
| 16:51.39 | dragly | is there a way to copy/paste in the terminal on N9 or N950 yet? |
| 16:51.40 | frals | why is beyond me, but thats policy for you |
| 16:51.54 | DocScrutinizer | ~may-i-edit |
| 16:51.54 | infobot | may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && exit; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } |
| 16:52.14 | djszapi | frals: aegis does not decide policies |
| 16:52.21 | snowpong | some example for postrm scripts for Harmattan? |
| 16:52.27 | djszapi | I do not seriously believe it you have been a platform developer for so long and do not know ... |
| 16:52.38 | djszapi | snowpong: what do you mean ? It is upstream debian |
| 16:52.39 | jabis | I did see that "your phone could be unusable even for emergency calls upon starting the update" but bricking my network connectivity alltogether when it fails is what makes this OTA a really crappy thing |
| 16:52.42 | frals | yes, someone is deciding retarded policy and aegis is enforcing it :) |
| 16:53.00 | qronic | btw, wMarkku Kylänpää wrote whole aegis kernel stuff, pretty neat code |
| 16:53.07 | djszapi | qronic: no, he did not |
| 16:53.08 | snowpong | djszapi: OK, I was guessting they might have some templates ready |
| 16:53.17 | djszapi | snowpong: debian maintainers guide |
| 16:53.29 | djszapi | qronic: I was also writing kernel stuff, and also other colleagues of mine |
| 16:53.41 | *** join/#harmattan arcean_ (~Arcean@aacx234.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 16:53.42 | frals | qronic: /etc/init/ssh.conf |
| 16:53.53 | djszapi | Markku K. has nothing to do with the runtime policy fw for instance |
| 16:53.58 | qronic | <djszapi>, sorry than, just seen his credits in the code |
| 16:54.11 | qronic | <frals>: thank you, sir |
| 16:54.12 | frals | qronic: unfortunately its on aegis shitlist, so dont mess with it |
| 16:54.30 | djszapi | ssh.conf is not an aegis file ... |
| 16:54.42 | djszapi | that is an upstart job, oh my god seriously |
| 16:54.55 | djszapi | if a platform developer does not know what can we expect from externals ... |
| 16:55.14 | frals | grep ssh.conf /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist |
| 16:55.14 | frals | S 15 com.nokia.maemo H 40 268648a5c1d4eb2bf2ced2ed79780515da6e5bae A 0 0 33188 P 15 system-services R 17 etc/init/ssh.conf |
| 16:55.21 | frals | is what i meant with "its on aegis shitlist" |
| 16:55.35 | frals | going by the may-I-edit alias DocScrutinizer kindly provided |
| 16:55.40 | frals | is this not correct djszapi? |
| 16:55.46 | djszapi | I think I ignore you, I do not need this swearing |
| 16:55.52 | frals | lol |
| 16:56.05 | qronic | <djszapi>: could you please point when the SEAL bit is written into ..../validator/enabled? If that's your expertise area |
| 16:56.23 | frals | am i completely mistaken in what i said or is someone just having PMS? |
| 16:58.08 | djszapi | frals: it is not just about your technically incorrectness |
| 16:58.21 | djszapi | it is also about the fact we aegis developers do not like reading things like "shitlist" |
| 16:58.45 | djszapi | I doubt anybody would like. I thought a platform developer is a bit more mature than a child. |
| 16:59.54 | djszapi | you have this style internally too unfortunately. |
| 17:00.18 | DocScrutinizer | frals: yoh |
| 17:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | frals: is on aegis shitlist may look like is an aegis shitlist, when some myopia comes to the game |
| 17:01.46 | frals | djszapi: s/shit/hit/ then, makes you happy? |
| 17:02.00 | djszapi | my ignore makes, thanks. |
| 17:02.21 | Robot101 | (speaking of acting like a child?) |
| 17:02.36 | frals | shit happens i guess |
| 17:03.33 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | my ignore list makes this convo especially funny |
| 17:04.19 | GeneralAntilles | chuckles. |
| 17:04.26 | GeneralAntilles | djszapi, this is the wrong channel to shit on frals in. :P |
| 17:04.28 | jabis | what's with them lists x) |
| 17:05.51 | jabis | kk enabling the user with passwd -u user got me back my ssh - now to dig the OTA packages - I want to see what's borken - why ain't it updating |
| 17:06.29 | jabis | btw. resetting the phone and starting the OTA again didn't halp |
| 17:07.13 | DocScrutinizer | jabis: the hashreflist is a list of files that you don't wanna touch unless you want to reflash due to MALF |
| 17:07.23 | *** join/#harmattan bkre (~bkre@193.158.222.114) |
| 17:07.43 | qronic | in PR1.1 for N9 when posting the picture in twitter, the message is broken for non-latin locales |
| 17:09.12 | jabis | DocScrutinizer: I'm not touching refhashlist - I want to _see_ which of the packages fail |
| 17:09.39 | DocScrutinizer | nobody talked about touching hashreflist |
| 17:10.05 | jabis | DocScrutinizer: Updating fails - and everything gets left like after a nuclear war ain't my perception of handy new tools for N9 x) |
| 17:10.52 | jabis | oh I misread - but why did you point me to hashreflist to begin with x) |
| 17:11.05 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-11-08 18:04:27] <jabis> what's with them lists x) |
| 17:11.44 | jabis | DocScrutinizer: I was referring to shit/hit/ignorelists - not about hashreflist ;) |
| 17:12.08 | DocScrutinizer | hashreflist = shitlist |
| 17:12.43 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-11-08 17:54:12] <frals> qronic: unfortunately its on aegis shitlist, so dont mess with it |
| 17:12.48 | jabis | for me a shitlist is something else :D |
| 17:13.13 | jabis | but nvm - can someone throw a link where I could dl the OTA packages |
| 17:17.38 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.87.159) |
| 17:17.44 | gri | Was anyone able to update to 1.1.4 QtSDK? Mine always fails with downloading the harmattan documentation |
| 17:18.00 | berndhs | I can do ping but not ping6 from devel-su, why would that be ? |
| 17:18.45 | gri | Ignore that, I was trying the last 2 hours to update and when I write on irc, it works :P |
| 17:22.27 | npm | DocScrutinizer: does that 'hashreflist' included QML files of apps installed from nokia store? |
| 17:23.04 | djszapi | npm you can very easily check it |
| 17:23.07 | npm | i.e. if one modifies an app's qml in /opt/*/qml/*/*.qml will the device brick? |
| 17:23.22 | npm | where is that file? or how to checkl |
| 17:23.38 | djszapi | read above like 30 lines |
| 17:23.43 | npm | ok |
| 17:24.21 | npm | well the last person that spoke about qml above was me... |
| 17:24.46 | djszapi | http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-11-08.log.html#t2011-11-08T18:54:55 |
| 17:25.11 | npm | oh the 'may-i-edit' thing? |
| 17:25.21 | faenil | gri: mine's still trying to download Harmattan Emulator... |
| 17:25.35 | djszapi | npm: seriously, it is a simple grep for that file ... |
| 17:26.44 | gri | faenil: qt for android (necessitas sdk) also does not install for me, like the n9 update :P |
| 17:26.52 | djszapi | npm: though, it is /etc/refhashlist |
| 17:26.52 | npm | so the only thing in the file is the binary "voicetogoog R 31 opt/voicetogoog/bin/voicetogoog" |
| 17:27.08 | djszapi | so frals was completely incorrect technically |
| 17:27.54 | faenil | gri: I have to get a working hello world app with qt on android by next monday :D |
| 17:27.59 | npm | correctness is overrated |
| 17:28.14 | djszapi | faenil: 2 minutes |
| 17:28.19 | djszapi | actually you can just download the example |
| 17:28.35 | faenil | djszapi: sure ;) I was told nothing worked in the session at devdays :D |
| 17:28.54 | djszapi | faenil: I have a qt application for Android. I should upload to androidmarket |
| 17:29.01 | faenil | :) |
| 17:29.15 | faenil | do you know if there's any problem with opengl? |
| 17:29.18 | djszapi | also, I am not sure which devdays that could be |
| 17:29.18 | gri | djszapi: Did you try the alpha 3 of necessitas which was released today? |
| 17:29.24 | faenil | I should port a mesh viewer as my thesis |
| 17:29.27 | gri | I'd be interested if it works for anyone else |
| 17:29.33 | djszapi | gri: I build it myself daily anyways :) |
| 17:29.39 | djszapi | from the kde repository |
| 17:29.54 | gri | hmm that's the other way :) |
| 17:30.06 | djszapi | faenil: I think you misunderstood or talked to the wrong person. They were actually very impressive |
| 17:30.16 | djszapi | all the guys I talked to |
| 17:30.18 | faenil | gri was ther eI think :D |
| 17:30.39 | npm | so how much of qt-mobility is available in necessitas alpha 3? |
| 17:30.50 | djszapi | npm: please check out the presentation ... |
| 17:30.53 | faenil | anyway, do you know anything about my question? :) |
| 17:30.55 | djszapi | these things are really written there. |
| 17:31.03 | npm | where |
| 17:31.22 | djszapi | qt android presentation at dev days. Shall I make you the google part ? |
| 17:31.31 | npm | no |
| 17:31.47 | frals | cat /etc/refhashlist |
| 17:31.47 | frals | Aegis3.0 |
| 17:31.52 | faenil | damn it qtsdk updater is not downloading anything, that's why it's stuck :( again :( |
| 17:31.54 | frals | is that just for me? |
| 17:31.58 | jabis | http://pastebin.com/uk1FbnVN here's what's happening on OTA if anyone want's to have a looksie |
| 17:32.01 | gri | faenil: mine worked now |
| 17:32.25 | faenil | gri: ;) do you know anything about opengl on qt android? is it completely ok? |
| 17:32.42 | gri | faenil: as of alpha 3 it should work out of the box |
| 17:32.51 | faenil | gri: ok thanks... |
| 17:33.14 | djszapi | npm: just for you ... http://cutehacks.com/2011/10/28/devdays2011/ |
| 17:33.17 | djszapi | 32/77 |
| 17:33.26 | gri | faenil: http://groups.google.com/group/android-qt/browse_thread/thread/1d729d895b0379ed |
| 17:33.27 | jabis | on syslog that is - kernel throws up over wlan but is still apparently needing something from the network |
| 17:34.33 | faenil | gri: so I'm lucky :) |
| 17:34.36 | faenil | hope it works correctly :D |
| 17:34.46 | gri | faenil: You could try the installer |
| 17:34.51 | gri | if you're on linux |
| 17:34.55 | faenil | yeah |
| 17:34.59 | faenil | not atm... |
| 17:35.09 | faenil | and got to finish that damn uni project I have before starting with the thesis |
| 17:35.20 | faenil | the one I wanted to show you at dev days |
| 17:35.23 | faenil | still can't get out of the raypicking problem |
| 17:35.55 | gri | my uni projects consist of "bit shift rgb pixels" :D *shame* |
| 17:36.03 | djszapi | the only problem with my qt app on android and market, I need to pay 25 EUR |
| 17:36.18 | djszapi | if I am not mistaken. |
| 17:36.28 | djszapi | to be able to upload. |
| 17:36.53 | gri | djszapi: $25 != 25 |
| 17:36.54 | faenil | :) |
| 17:36.56 | gri | :) |
| 17:37.19 | faenil | gri: I'm not supposed to implement raypicking by myselft, but that's what I'm doing... |
| 17:37.31 | faenil | is there anyone in here which knows about 3d graphics? |
| 17:37.45 | faenil | I really need help, need to sort this out... |
| 17:38.01 | djszapi | gri: yeah, I find it a bit amusing. |
| 17:38.26 | Arkenoi | avg idle consumption 290mA <- WTF? |
| 17:38.54 | djszapi | faenil: wrong channel, qt-3d |
| 17:38.57 | djszapi | or opengl |
| 17:39.23 | faenil | djszapi: yeah I know just wanted to know if there was anyone in here...anyway, I'm not using qt-3d |
| 17:39.36 | Corsac | Arkenoi: tracker maybe? :) |
| 17:39.44 | djszapi | faenil: they /do/ know 3d inside and out |
| 17:40.04 | faenil | djszapi: I know but since I know people here, I asked here before going there :P |
| 17:41.06 | *** join/#harmattan arcean_ (~Arcean@aafu111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:41.43 | gri | faenil: Don't be so shy ;) |
| 17:44.03 | faenil | gri: it's not about that... |
| 17:44.13 | faenil | problem is usually none answers... |
| 17:44.32 | faenil | I've already written there...let's see if anyone comes us up with time/ideas :) |
| 17:44.48 | faenil | while if you know someone he's more keen on helping :) |
| 17:45.29 | RST38h | <yawn> |
| 17:45.35 | snowpong | seems I got the postrm now working correctly, however now I can't uninstall from the UI, I've got to do it from within Manage Applications ... |
| 17:45.35 | djszapi | faenil: Sarah Smith answered to me in 2 hours |
| 17:45.47 | berndhs | 39-5 doesn't set the DNS servers from the wifi settings |
| 17:45.50 | djszapi | snowpong: use the "user" category |
| 17:45.59 | djszapi | in your control file, and will work oob |
| 17:46.10 | djszapi | faenil: and Sarah is the leader of the 3d team |
| 17:46.16 | snowpong | djszapi: I am asking for user credentials in the aegis (as suggested by some internal OVI QA) |
| 17:46.27 | djszapi | snowpong: I am not referring to that |
| 17:46.39 | snowpong | djszapi: I get that, I will check my control now |
| 17:47.14 | djszapi | Section: utils -> that needs to be user |
| 17:47.36 | djszapi | and even if it comes from unknown origin, package manager will be able to un-install it. |
| 17:48.33 | djszapi | snowpong: do you remember when I asked about kdelibs for android in Munich ? I am really about to start experimenting :) |
| 17:49.40 | djszapi | snowpong: also, we discussed this shared package containing also the dynamic qt so libraries. Do you have such a package by off-hand for a sample ? |
| 17:50.21 | snowpong | djszapi: yeah I remember the kdelibs question, didn't realize you were the same guy here |
| 17:50.59 | snowpong | djszapi: the .so files are part of necessitas if you just want to inspect their deps? |
| 17:51.28 | snowpong | djszapi: my controls says: "Section: user/other" |
| 17:52.14 | djszapi | snowpong: It would be nice to have an example for qt app devs who would like to submit their packages to android market since this dynamic shared library in the same package seems to be the way of proceeding. I might be mistaken, though. |
| 17:53.41 | snowpong | djszapi: ah, you mean an example of a complete package with the Qt .so's included - no, no such thing exists atm, not well documented and public at least |
| 17:54.03 | snowpong | haven't had time to try that yet, but others have when reading the list |
| 17:57.45 | djszapi | faenil: back to your question, one guy has been working on the opengl support, and getting fine |
| 17:57.50 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 17:58.09 | djszapi | faenil: pretty sad, you missed the opengl examples running on the galaxy device. It has been super impressive to me. |
| 17:58.40 | faenil | djszapi: yeah I was in another session.. |
| 18:00.41 | snowpong | faenil: djszapi: http://cutehacks.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/image04.png picture of opengl es backend rendering on Galaxy S2 |
| 18:00.53 | snowpong | it was Thomas S. who held the talk |
| 18:00.53 | jabis | where does OTA files get stored - I'm quite confident it's the download that failed |
| 18:00.57 | jabis | I'm seeing only 315kb downloaded by the phone |
| 18:01.02 | jabis | as it's supposed to be ~220 megs |
| 18:01.09 | djszapi | snowpong: yep, from Munich, Nokia |
| 18:01.15 | snowpong | djszapi: jupp |
| 18:01.34 | djszapi | we had a gluon sprint there with them before the qt dev days, cool guys :) |
| 18:02.05 | snowpong | and easy to spot ;) |
| 18:02.14 | djszapi | hehehe :) |
| 18:09.18 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 18:12.54 | Venemo | snowpong, does that stuff run on Android? |
| 18:14.25 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@g230050070.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:16.51 | snowpong | Venemo: what stuff? that is a screenshot showing realtime HDMI output from an android device |
| 18:16.56 | snowpong | (the image) |
| 18:17.04 | Venemo | snowpong, yeah, I'm referring to the image |
| 18:17.17 | Venemo | snowpong, so Qt now runs on Android? that's nice :) |
| 18:18.18 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 18:19.14 | snowpong | Venemo: that's ages ago, you can now even publish Qt apps in the Android Market - it still needs lots of polish, a promise of BIC etc. before it's really good |
| 18:20.43 | Arkenoi | damn |
| 18:20.54 | Arkenoi | my phone is doing "something" |
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| 18:20.58 | Arkenoi | not shown with top |
| 18:21.13 | Arkenoi | but draining battery and being sloooow |
| 18:21.30 | Arkenoi | likely to be some MfE glitch :-/ |
| 18:24.23 | faenil | snowpong: thanks :) |
| 18:25.15 | Venemo | snowpong, hmm, that is lovely |
| 18:25.33 | Venemo | snowpong, can that Android version of Qt display QML with sane performance? |
| 18:27.03 | snowpong | Venemo: yeah, alpha2 uses raster backend so it's good on mid/high-end devices, I'm not sure if latest alpha3 uses opengl out-of-the-box so I haven't tried speed of that atm |
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| 18:27.42 | snowpong | Venemo: try out for yourself - http://twitter.com/#!/snowpong/status/133578670152495104 |
| 18:27.43 | faenil | snowpong: it should...as of http://groups.google.com/group/android-qt/browse_thread/thread/1d729d895b0379ed?pli=1 |
| 18:28.26 | snowpong | faenil: indeed, cool :D |
| 18:28.35 | faenil | :) |
| 18:28.39 | snowpong | faenil: will test soon, gotta update my talk for devdays SF :D |
| 18:28.47 | faenil | good luck! :) |
| 18:28.53 | Venemo | snowpong, I don't have an Android device, neither do I have the Android SDK :S |
| 18:28.58 | faenil | I'll start using android qt next week :) |
| 18:29.03 | faenil | same here XD |
| 18:29.20 | Venemo | but I intend to borrow a device for a week or two to port my app and release to the Android market :) |
| 18:29.33 | snowpong | Venemo: you can use the emulator, and the Necessitas/Qt SDK linked there includes _all_ software needed both AndroidSDK and QtSDK + Creator |
| 18:29.47 | Venemo | snowpong, so it integrates with Qt Creator too? |
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| 18:30.10 | snowpong | Venemo: yes, you basically get a new Target: Android when creating a new project |
| 18:30.17 | Arkenoi | now it is tracker-store again |
| 18:30.20 | Venemo | snowpong, that is fucking awesome :) |
| 18:30.26 | snowpong | Venemo: tell me about it! ;D |
| 18:30.37 | faenil | anyone with Norway product code who got n9 update? |
| 18:31.10 | Venemo | snowpong, Qt Creator integration means that I won't have to do any voodoo when developing for Android :) |
| 18:31.12 | snowpong | faenil: how do I know product code, I've upgraded but I might have gotten my phone through less normal connections |
| 18:31.26 | faenil | I got it at qt dev days |
| 18:31.35 | faenil | anyway, the product code is on the back of the simholder |
| 18:31.52 | faenil | or, you can read it by scanning the barcode on Settings -> Info about product |
| 18:31.56 | faenil | (how gay is that?) |
| 18:32.07 | gri | faenil: The n9s from devdays had a german power plug, so they are all german version? :) |
| 18:32.28 | w00t | gri: germany uses the same plug as the rest of europe... :) |
| 18:32.38 | faenil | gri: mine has norway product code |
| 18:32.45 | gri | w00t: I was told Italy has different ones but ok |
| 18:32.45 | snowpong | Venemo: here is a step-by-step guide from zero-to-hero with Qt and Android - http://www.slideshare.net/snowpong/targeting-android-with-qt |
| 18:33.01 | snowpong | Venemo: it's a bit dated since alpha3 but still 80% valid |
| 18:33.09 | faenil | w00t: main italian plug is different, but we can use german ones too |
| 18:33.33 | w00t | faenil: i think you mean to direct that to gri |
| 18:33.56 | faenil | nope that was to you :) referring to what gri said :D |
| 18:34.05 | Arkenoi | killed -9 tracker-store and *magically* everything other worked, including mfe sync that hanged for hours (sic!) |
| 18:35.48 | snowpong | what is the easiest way to install an app on the n9 when you have the .deb file locally, can I do it with a one-liner? I don't want to deploy through Qt Creator as it installs and starts the app as "developer" not "user" I believe.. |
| 18:36.22 | jonni | dpkg -i file.deb |
| 18:36.24 | SpeedEvil | dpkg -i foo? |
| 18:36.53 | snowpong | I mean locally on my linux box and I wanna install it (or upgrade) to my USB connected N9, I first gotta scp it? |
| 18:36.59 | Venemo | snowpong, thank you very much! saved to bookmarks, will return to it in a couple of weeks :) |
| 18:37.33 | snowpong | was hoping for a one-liner from pc --> n9 |
| 18:38.10 | snowpong | Venemo: excellent, I'll update it once I know whats changed with alpha3 |
| 18:39.48 | Arkenoi | hmm, in pre-beta2 there was twitter group in contacts. now it is no more and no twitter is associated to contact entries :-/ |
| 18:40.27 | Mek | something like 'ssh root@phone dpkg -i /dev/stdin < file.deb' might work in theory? |
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| 18:44.48 | snowpong | Mek: I'll just do it in two steps instead I guess, but thanks |
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| 18:49.36 | RST38h | N950 has got a color LED! |
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| 18:51.57 | gri | white is a color? |
| 18:55.43 | rcg | RST38h: ? |
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| 19:02.50 | Venemo | snowpong, I see in your slides that you work for Trolltech |
| 19:03.12 | MohammadAG | RST38h, ? |
| 19:04.14 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 19:04.23 | djszapi | Hi! What happened with this page ? http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ |
| 19:04.40 | djszapi | where is the public repository nowadays ? |
| 19:04.54 | X-Fade | djszapi: beta3 |
| 19:05.41 | djszapi | what do you mean ? |
| 19:05.52 | X-Fade | beta3 got released. |
| 19:05.58 | X-Fade | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta3/free/ |
| 19:06.05 | djszapi | thanks |
| 19:06.06 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 19:18.30 | gri | faenil: did you upgrade the sdk yet? |
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| 19:23.18 | Corsac | updates |
| 19:23.33 | Corsac | uf, slow server |
| 19:23.43 | Corsac | or loaded server :) |
| 19:26.44 | Corsac | Flash player is required to view release version and list of new features. |
| 19:26.47 | Corsac | frembl |
| 19:27.03 | Corsac | can someone with flash comment on what's in http://europe.nokia.com/support/product-support/device-software-update?N9= ? |
| 19:27.53 | *** join/#harmattan aheinecke (~quassel@osbk-4db1749e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:29.56 | villager | for me it says "there are no software updates for this device yet" |
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| 19:31.39 | Corsac | pfff, it's like 100kB/s |
| 19:31.53 | BluesLee | can someone tell me where to find the wifi mac address of my n9? |
| 19:32.16 | Venemo | BluesLee, Settings/About |
| 19:33.35 | BluesLee | thanx |
| 19:36.49 | Corsac | what is the difference between “sync and connect” and “SDK” usb modes? |
| 19:37.13 | *** join/#harmattan aheinecke (~quassel@osbk-4db1749e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:40.21 | djszapi | Corsac: SDK is SDK |
| 19:40.31 | djszapi | you have the SDK connection tool, developer and everything |
| 19:40.57 | Corsac | well, in sync & connect too, it seems |
| 19:41.14 | Corsac | well, at least you have the usb0 interface available, with dhcp listening etc. |
| 19:42.31 | djszapi | true, that was my impression. This is really weird. |
| 19:43.07 | djszapi | maybe tracker is not that silly in SDK mode, I do not know .. |
| 19:43.41 | Corsac | tracker? |
| 19:43.49 | djszapi | yes |
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| 19:48.04 | Corsac | what does it do in sync & connect? |
| 19:48.19 | djszapi | well, months ago, all kind of troubles. |
| 19:48.44 | djszapi | have not really tried recently, but indexing was screwed up back then |
| 19:51.28 | djszapi | but this is a silly speculation after all. Need to ask someone authorized. |
| 19:52.10 | Corsac | could you ask people authorized to look at bug reports too? :) |
| 19:53.20 | djszapi | well, I did send a mail to my colleague about it few minutes ago. |
| 19:53.32 | djszapi | sorry, but what bug. Could you please clarify this post ? |
| 19:54.13 | Corsac | well, every bug, in fact |
| 19:54.22 | Corsac | afaict there's no bug in ASSI state since august |
| 19:55.02 | djszapi | not gotcha .. |
| 19:55.38 | RST38h | MohammadAG: On the back of the phone, coupled with the flash, is the bright red LED |
| 19:55.51 | RST38h | MohammadAG: Which may contain other color LEDs. |
| 19:56.03 | RST38h | MohammadAG: The question is, how to control it? |
| 19:56.38 | SpeedEvil | video4linux |
| 19:56.40 | SpeedEvil | I assume |
| 19:57.04 | Corsac | djszapi: “not gotcha”? |
| 19:57.06 | SpeedEvil | It's how the n900 worked, and the flashlight app on n950 blocks the camera in the same expected way |
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| 19:57.19 | djszapi | Corsac: not getting you .. |
| 19:57.58 | Corsac | djszapi: http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/buglist.cgi?product=MeeGo%201.2%20Harmattan&component=Device&resolution=--- |
| 19:58.42 | RST38h | Speed; Notice that the red led and the flash led are two different animals, even while they are in the same physical unit |
| 19:58.48 | djszapi | I need to log in and so on. I will not do that for now, sorry |
| 19:58.54 | Corsac | the first bug in ASSI state is #364 opened on aug 15, last news from Nokia on aug 18 |
| 19:59.14 | djszapi | no clue what ASSI state means. |
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| 19:59.28 | Corsac | djszapi: and from looking a few bugs here and there, there no comment from Nokia on any bug more recent |
| 19:59.39 | djszapi | normal. |
| 19:59.48 | djszapi | you were very lucky to get one before that |
| 20:01.32 | berndhs | why do we report bugs if there is no feedback on them ? this isn't a Nokia-specific issue, it is very common |
| 20:01.50 | djszapi | very simple answer, no resource ? |
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| 20:02.07 | djszapi | as if nobody knew, what happened on the 11th of February... |
| 20:02.10 | berndhs | I don't believe that in the general case |
| 20:02.19 | djszapi | I do not care about general case |
| 20:02.50 | berndhs | if bugs remain "NEW" for several months, the natural assumption is that the report is ignored |
| 20:03.04 | djszapi | of course, so ... ? |
| 20:03.09 | berndhs | consequently the reporter will not bother to report further bugs |
| 20:03.20 | djszapi | yes, so ... ? |
| 20:03.38 | *** join/#harmattan rzr (~rzr@rzr.ww7.be) |
| 20:03.40 | djszapi | I do not understand what you try to get out of this |
| 20:03.41 | berndhs | and the reputation of the company suffers, as they are seen to not care about the quality of their products |
| 20:03.58 | djszapi | very childish consequence |
| 20:04.09 | djszapi | would be all kind of worse reputation to not deal with the blocker bugs |
| 20:04.18 | Corsac | djszapi: do we piss people off by reporting bugs? |
| 20:04.26 | Corsac | or are they just ignored |
| 20:04.30 | djszapi | Corsac: no, we do not even read those |
| 20:04.46 | djszapi | most of the people including me |
| 20:05.08 | djszapi | how would you read any of those when you have 550000 other tasks that your boss tells you to do ? |
| 20:05.31 | djszapi | please be gentle, we do not do it on wish for having you guys suffer .. |
| 20:05.36 | decibyte | am i a complete moron if i want to install git and/or mercurial on my n9? and if not, how do i do? |
| 20:06.32 | djszapi | decibyte: use the community repository ? |
| 20:06.39 | jonni | mostly the problem is that internal bugzilla on different and we mostly follow that one, havent even heard about developer bugzilla before reading today in irc. |
| 20:07.03 | decibyte | djszapi: yes please. where do i find it? well... i'll google a bit before asking more stupid questions. |
| 20:07.10 | djszapi | jonni: you have not heard about the public ? LOL |
| 20:07.17 | Corsac | djszapi: it might be wise to advise people not to report bug if they intend to have an answer (reporting is ok for other people to read, though) |
| 20:07.23 | djszapi | decibyte: landing page, read please. |
| 20:07.32 | Corsac | except that the bug tracker is not public |
| 20:07.35 | jonni | I even think that there is some monkey that copies the public bugs to internal one :) |
| 20:07.45 | djszapi | Corsac: reporting can help other community people |
| 20:07.49 | djszapi | if community answers ... |
| 20:07.49 | Corsac | yes |
| 20:08.06 | Corsac | but then dev.nokia.com is not the correct place imho |
| 20:08.06 | djszapi | jonni: have not heard of any |
| 20:08.33 | Corsac | and reporting about security issues or stuff inside closed apps won't really do anything |
| 20:08.43 | Corsac | well, the community can comment on workaround, but that's all |
| 20:08.50 | djszapi | decibyte: http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr:/harmattan/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/armel/git_1.6.5.7-0maemo0%7erzr2_armel.deb |
| 20:08.55 | djszapi | http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr:/harmattan/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/armel/git-core_1.6.5.7-0maemo0%7erzr4_armel.deb |
| 20:09.08 | djszapi | or just: echo 'deb http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/rzr:/harmattan/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/ ./' >>/etc/apt/sources.list.d/nicks.list |
| 20:09.17 | djszapi | and then apt-get install git/git-core :) |
| 20:09.20 | djszapi | so simple.. |
| 20:09.26 | decibyte | djszapi: thanks a lot :) |
| 20:09.40 | djszapi | Corsac: seriously, ask yourself, what is your point ? |
| 20:10.09 | Corsac | my point is to have issues fixed |
| 20:10.24 | djszapi | we have been doing, so be happy |
| 20:10.27 | djszapi | and patient |
| 20:10.36 | Corsac | I try not to report useless stuff, I try to provide information etc. |
| 20:10.47 | Corsac | I think my bug reports are valuable, at some point |
| 20:11.02 | Corsac | and I think reading them might not be a waste of time |
| 20:11.11 | Corsac | and I'm quite sure the other bugs are in the same situation |
| 20:11.13 | Corsac | that's all :) |
| 20:11.58 | djszapi | yes, so ... ? |
| 20:12.04 | djszapi | I am still not getting the point. |
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| 20:13.51 | Corsac | ok, I give up |
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| 20:58.39 | Arkenoi | incredible, but seems that it is well-reproducible: killing tracker-store process reliably unfreezes stalled MfE sync :-/ |
| 21:02.17 | tomma | is there any accounts plugin which support msn protocol? |
| 21:02.56 | tomma | or has anyone package for skype which is in n9? |
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| 21:18.07 | rzr | tomma: you can join msn network using xmpp |
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| 21:18.26 | rzr | tomma: http://rzr.online.fr/q/xmpp I can document more |
| 21:19.16 | rzr | hi Corsac , booting debian yet ? |
| 21:19.50 | rzr | djszapi: hi too , I have a working desktop now |
| 21:19.58 | rzr | laptop actually |
| 21:20.09 | djszapi | rzr: nice :) |
| 21:20.17 | *** join/#harmattan henkie (~henkie@2001:838:366:0:22cf:30ff:fef1:a2a1) |
| 21:20.32 | rzr | just did upgrade |
| 21:20.44 | rzr | and installed a couple of apps |
| 21:20.52 | rzr | git 1st |
| 21:21.37 | rzr | 's laptop : http://rzr.online.fr/q/oem# #LenovO ChinA sells OeM !MeeGo !GnU !LinuX #LapTop G470 but mine was w/ “CrimoSoft Win7 Shut up and PaY” edition |
| 21:28.54 | henkie | Hi, i am looking to buy a N9, but I am not sure yet. Is it possible to develop applications (pref. python/qt) for it, or do I need a n950 for this? |
| 21:29.14 | djszapi | rzr willing to package for us again ? |
| 21:29.22 | SpeedEvil | N9 is quite suited to development. |
| 21:29.45 | SpeedEvil | n950 was simply a sort-of-similar device that was available in small numbers before retail n9s were available. |
| 21:30.12 | SpeedEvil | It's no better to develop with - other than having a keyboard - which isn't actually a benefit. |
| 21:30.59 | henkie | SpeedEvil, tnx |
| 21:31.06 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 21:32.57 | henkie | I guess that only leaves a functional openvpn-client before I can/will buy one :) |
| 21:33.04 | Chaz6 | I like the keyboard on the n950 better than the n900 |
| 21:33.14 | Chaz6 | I find the n900's keys a bit small |
| 21:34.29 | henkie | had to replace my n900 keyboard, most of the markings were gone |
| 21:35.32 | henkie | N9 just got available for me in holland, but it's a lot of money, so I need to be sure it can replace my n900 |
| 21:40.32 | Corsac | javispedro: fwiw, kernel version didn't change after pr1.1 upgrade |
| 21:41.04 | javispedro | .. |
| 21:41.26 | javispedro | more details.. |
| 21:41.46 | SpeedEvil | I like the keyboard on the n900 much better |
| 21:42.07 | SpeedEvil | The shape of the keys gives a much better feel of where I am. |
| 21:42.13 | SpeedEvil | I can hit 30wpm on it. |
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| 21:45.52 | Corsac | javispedro: http://paste.debian.net/143967/ |
| 21:46.45 | Corsac | so LOCALVERSION didn't change |
| 21:46.56 | Corsac | (while the package version did) |
| 21:50.11 | jabis | fuck - camera borken with PR 1.1 |
| 21:50.42 | Corsac | indeed |
| 21:51.21 | javispedro | Corsac: what do you mean by "package version changed", what is the new one? |
| 21:52.10 | Corsac | http://paste.debian.net/143968/ |
| 21:52.26 | jabis | also frontside camera borkd |
| 21:52.50 | Corsac | I should have backuped dpkg -l before upgrading |
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| 21:53.25 | javispedro | this doesn't make much sense |
| 21:53.28 | javispedro | what does uname -v say |
| 21:53.39 | javispedro | s/-v/-r/ |
| 21:54.46 | javispedro | your update is probably borked or waiting for another reboot. |
| 21:55.14 | Corsac | uname says 2.6.32.39-dfl61-20112910 |
| 21:55.33 | Corsac | I already shutdown once, but it doesn't cost much to do it once more :) |
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| 21:56.19 | jabis | mine states exactly the same |
| 21:56.35 | Corsac | maybe the kernel wasn't flashed correctly? |
| 21:57.33 | jabis | About product Version: PR1.1 (10.2011.34-1_PR_001) |
| 21:57.42 | Corsac | ha, but that's PR1.0 |
| 21:57.50 | Corsac | is confused |
| 21:58.29 | jabis | the PR1.1 and () are extra from before update |
| 21:58.45 | Corsac | yeah, same here, PR1.1 but 10.2011.34-1_PR_001 |
| 22:00.09 | jabis | swype made it worse to type landscape on terminal x) |
| 22:00.52 | jabis | also disabled changin the layout via swiping over the vkb |
| 22:01.32 | gri | nice you show both names here |
| 22:01.34 | jabis | oh and besides - I've rebooted for over 6 times - can't be that |
| 22:01.45 | gri | Did anyone of you update to qtsdk 1.1.4? |
| 22:02.16 | ajalkane | There's already 1.1.4? I just upgraded to 1.1.3! |
| 22:02.31 | gri | since I have a 34-1 default madde environment |
| 22:02.43 | gri | but there's also a 39-5 one listed |
| 22:02.46 | gri | but not installed |
| 22:03.20 | gri | http://pastebin.com/ndQKYru3 (mad list output) |
| 22:03.39 | gri | oh noo, forget that |
| 22:03.48 | gri | runtime and target ... are different things :) |
| 22:04.42 | faenil | I'm trying to update the sdk, but it didn't work, so I stopped it... |
| 22:04.49 | faenil | don't know if it's worth trying again |
| 22:05.18 | gri | faenil: I removed mine and reinstalled it even after a successful update |
| 22:05.31 | faenil | yeah I think I'll do the same... |
| 22:05.34 | gri | faenil: Did your updater show a kb rate and time remaining? |
| 22:05.39 | faenil | the updater is broken... |
| 22:05.40 | faenil | nope |
| 22:05.42 | faenil | just % |
| 22:06.03 | gri | The 1.1.4 online installer lists time and download rate |
| 22:06.20 | gri | so you should try that one it does not seem to have used that one while updating |
| 22:08.40 | *** join/#harmattan buser (~test@c-5bcfe455.017-474-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 22:09.14 | toninikkanen | what, exactly, is Harmattan doing when, after the battery runs out, you plug it into a charger and restart it, and it takes 30 minutes to boot up again ? |
| 22:09.33 | toninikkanen | is it charging 29,5 minutes "just in case" and booting 30 seconds, or... |
| 22:09.51 | faenil | never happened... |
| 22:10.11 | mpr | do you actually plug it to a charger or to some usb port which might give very little power for some reason? |
| 22:10.21 | toninikkanen | a charger |
| 22:10.29 | toninikkanen | a genuine nokia charger plugged into the wall |
| 22:10.46 | toninikkanen | happens to me every time on N950 (currently running the 39-x whatever version) |
| 22:12.07 | jabis | it's the -x whatever -version feature I suppose |
| 22:12.48 | toninikkanen | i'd say what the x exactly were if the device would stop showing the spinner and let me see the exact version number... |
| 22:13.21 | jabis | check the logs for something failing in startup - a hanging script or a failing app? |
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| 22:14.14 | toninikkanen | i'll steal a jig from somewhere and see the serial console output... naah, maybe not |
| 22:14.42 | jabis | track & protect for example has been the source of many bitchy things for my N9 (come to a crawl and force a reboot when toggling GPS options) |
| 22:15.17 | jabis | also froze a few other niners upon first start |
| 22:15.20 | MohammadAG | unfortunately switching off GPS in options causes the device to hang |
| 22:15.23 | toninikkanen | have to check that once it's properly booted up again... |
| 22:15.34 | MohammadAG | whenever the libraries ask for GPS |
| 22:15.47 | MohammadAG | Unlike on iOS where it says Location is disabled |
| 22:16.54 | jabis | I couldn't get rid of it without removing all apps tho, which sucks, I'm not gonna apt-get install every other package in the blabal-harmattan-pr package just to rid one x) |
| 22:18.32 | *** join/#harmattan vladest (~Vlad@199-77-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 22:19.59 | jabis | MohammadAG: purely installing(not actually installing but first launch which forces you to set up the accounts) that app froze a batch of fresh N9's, slowly became unresponsive up to the time where the user had to hard-restart the phone, and that's BAD behavior of a bundled app :) |
| 22:22.16 | jabis | also people were confused that the phone is asking a security code no one had set.. which meant the code that one used with t&p, but didn't call it with the same name (no security codes anywhere) in the application |
| 22:24.49 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 22:32.27 | mgedmin | in qml, how do you ask for your app to be inverted (i.e. white on black, rather than the default black on grey)? |
| 22:34.22 | *** join/#harmattan artemma (~artemma@d85-194-229-245.cust.wlannet.com) |
| 22:34.46 | arcean | mgedmin: http://pastebin.com/4mPSDGbs |
| 22:35.24 | henkie | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.39 | mgedmin | thanks! |
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| 22:41.46 | faenil | sdk updater keeps saying it can't extract components.7z because something is blocking it from doing so... |
| 22:41.49 | faenil | what can I do? |
| 22:41.57 | faenil | there's nothing in processes which could prevent that... |
| 22:42.09 | mgedmin | are you out of disk space? |
| 22:42.11 | mgedmin | I'm out of ideas |
| 22:42.21 | faenil | nope |
| 22:42.22 | mgedmin | sdk updater EATS ALL MY RAM and fails to update anything |
| 22:42.28 | faenil | same here... |
| 22:42.31 | mgedmin | I've two copies of the meego stuff in my qt creator somehow |
| 22:42.33 | faenil | 40%cpu.. |
| 22:42.39 | mgedmin | I think I'll download the new one and reinstall |
| 22:42.52 | mgedmin | is trying to mock up a QML interface for Brogue |
| 22:44.09 | gri | is running 1.1.4 sdk and qtcreator 2.4.0 beta and fairly happy :) |
| 22:44.32 | faenil | because gri reinstalled everything :P |
| 22:44.57 | gri | yep, now I only have one .deb left which has to be manually installed into madde |
| 22:45.09 | gri | libcommhistory-dev is still only available from scratchbox and has to be copied from there |
| 22:49.01 | gri | good night faenil |
| 22:49.17 | faenil | good night gri :) |
| 22:50.34 | javispedro | omg |
| 22:50.41 | javispedro | might have got a touchpad after all |
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| 22:51.58 | *** part/#harmattan bkre_home (~bkre@ppp-93-104-138-176.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:52.06 | faenil | a touchpad? |
| 22:52.52 | faenil | damn sdk updater... |
| 22:53.02 | faenil | retry -> error....ignore -> same error.... |
| 22:53.02 | faenil | -.- |
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| 23:14.45 | mgedmin | haha icon-m-toolbar-cancle.png |
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| 23:25.31 | DocScrutinizer | ~larrt crappy cheap chinese fans |
| 23:25.39 | DocScrutinizer | ~lart crappy cheap chinese fans |
| 23:25.39 | infobot | shoots crappy cheap chinese fans in his sleep |
| 23:26.38 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you've seen I suffered exactly your bad fate |
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