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| 02:09.38 | wook | Heya guys :) |
| 02:09.51 | wook | Probably all sleeping here too |
| 02:13.59 | ieatlint | that's how it begins |
| 02:17.34 | wook | I need tool for extracting and repaking firmware files (rx-71.bin) |
| 02:17.52 | wook | Good morning, btw :) |
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| 02:20.43 | stroughtonsmith | I'm assuming I'm *really* late to the party, but if anyone is interested, I found a fix for the brightness on N9/N950 : http://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/129738932068950016 |
| 02:21.31 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 02:22.12 | stroughtonsmith | the AMOLED looks /way/ nicer now that's it's not running at half all the time |
| 02:22.42 | SpeedEvil | Now, how do you set it to really, really dim. |
| 02:23.02 | stroughtonsmith | there's a range of options in the gconf stuff |
| 02:23.19 | stroughtonsmith | not sure if you can change the lowest setting, but would be interesting |
| 02:24.56 | wook | Display on n950 is "don't have bad word for it in vocabulary" |
| 02:26.26 | SpeedEvil | echo >/sys/*/brightness worked at least at one point |
| 02:27.23 | wook | guys, how to repack firmware? :| (sorry for newbish questions :() |
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| 02:29.09 | SpeedEvil | What were the issues with n950 display? |
| 02:29.16 | SpeedEvil | Maybe I'm uncritical. |
| 02:29.21 | SpeedEvil | wook: What are you doing? |
| 02:30.18 | wook | Speedevil, well, i am s60 poweruser and just comparation of e7 and n950 makes me feel bad :S with i can repack n950 to e7 :D |
| 02:31.08 | wook | However, i need tool to extract context of rx-71.bin and after i modify it to pack it back to binary |
| 02:31.45 | wook | On s60 we have "readimage.exe" and "rofsbuild" for this, but, headers are different from images in s60 and meego |
| 02:33.49 | wook | Just want to edit some conf files...guess nothing more... |
| 02:33.58 | SpeedEvil | 'repack' |
| 02:34.06 | SpeedEvil | What are you trying to do? |
| 02:34.21 | wook | Yes, repack... |
| 02:34.24 | SpeedEvil | If you mean run binarys from n950 on e7, absolutely not. |
| 02:34.30 | wook | Noooo |
| 02:34.48 | wook | I am not stuoid or anything (not that much) :D |
| 02:35.01 | wook | I mentioned e7 just because of display |
| 02:35.04 | stroughtonsmith | you're modding the n950 firmware? |
| 02:35.06 | stroughtonsmith | is it signed? |
| 02:35.19 | SpeedEvil | Simply modifying conf files won't work if they're signed. |
| 02:35.29 | wook | Stroughtonsmith, i don't know, that'swhy i am here |
| 02:36.32 | wook | So, guess there's no rom cooking tools here? Only OEM can play with this? :S this is not COOL at all |
| 02:36.40 | SpeedEvil | What conf files are you trying to modify. |
| 02:38.02 | wook | SpeedEvil, as you know that file browsing and editind on device is really lousy...mostly i wanted to explore /usr/share/...from pc |
| 02:38.15 | SpeedEvil | ssh device |
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| 02:38.44 | stroughtonsmith | wook: I wonder, since there's a meego community edition rom for the n950, if you can use that process to help you |
| 02:38.46 | wook | Can't :S don't have driver |
| 02:39.33 | wook | I can't download nothing larger than 20mb at the moment :S |
| 02:40.53 | SpeedEvil | Also, there is a file browser in ovi |
| 02:40.57 | wook | How is ce.bin made? |
| 02:41.08 | DocScrutinizer | wook: you basically can not mess with harmattan |
| 02:41.13 | wook | SpeedEvil, can you upload your drivers for me? |
| 02:41.15 | stroughtonsmith | dunno who runs the community ed stuff. Stskeeps can probably weigh in when it's daytime over there |
| 02:41.33 | wook | Aha |
| 02:42.06 | DocScrutinizer | meegoCE != harmattan though |
| 02:42.15 | wook | Hmmm |
| 02:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | 100% not equal |
| 02:42.37 | stroughtonsmith | right, but packaging a flashable OS might help |
| 02:42.55 | DocScrutinizer | you can not package a flashable harmattan image |
| 02:43.05 | wook | I was reading abt CE and flashing process didn't made me like it...toooo many shell commands to memorise for my poor brain :D |
| 02:43.43 | wook | Can i extract harmattan and pack it as CE is packed? |
| 02:43.55 | DocScrutinizer | and btw nobody, really *nobody* would want to flash a new image to get your however clever hacks on his device |
| 02:44.15 | DocScrutinizer | there's a commonly supported installing process |
| 02:44.39 | DocScrutinizer | wook, no |
| 02:44.42 | DocScrutinizer | you can not package a flashable harmattan image |
| 02:45.10 | wook | Doc, i am not intending to release mods or something, just for internal use (as always) |
| 02:45.19 | DocScrutinizer | you can not package a flashable harmattan image |
| 02:45.44 | wook | Ok then...can anyone upload win32 drivers for n950? :D |
| 02:46.10 | DocScrutinizer | hell you can't even edit most of the files in /etc/* on a live system without making the device eneter MALF |
| 02:46.40 | wook | Aha |
| 02:47.12 | DocScrutinizer | and you can not change any of the preinstalled binaries and/or libraries |
| 02:47.19 | wook | So...must wait till qtsdk updator download repos :S |
| 02:47.34 | DocScrutinizer | won't help |
| 02:47.53 | DocScrutinizer | when I say you can not, then I mean "by no means whatsoever" |
| 02:48.38 | SpeedEvil | wook: What do you mean by 'drivers' |
| 02:48.58 | wook | Doc, for some reasons, LandscapeEnabler is not enabling anything, i can't install that "source code editor" for some reason :S |
| 02:49.05 | DocScrutinizer | duh, I ignored that for a pun |
| 02:49.36 | wook | SpeedEvil, usb drivers for phone :-O |
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| 02:49.47 | wook | Ones that comes with qtsdk |
| 02:50.05 | DocScrutinizer | usblibfoo |
| 02:50.18 | DocScrutinizer | windoze |
| 02:50.31 | SpeedEvil | I use linux. |
| 02:50.41 | wook | Ahh speed, i use win32 |
| 02:50.46 | DocScrutinizer | probably 80..90% here do |
| 02:51.33 | wook | I am 1% who's playing with ReactOS and XP :D |
| 02:51.43 | DocScrutinizer | nevertheless you're lucky ~flashing has generic advice for windows users as well, applicable to harmatan flashing almost 1:1 |
| 02:51.47 | DocScrutinizer | ~flashing |
| 02:51.47 | infobot | well, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 02:53.57 | wook | I've just flashed phone ;) that works fine though |
| 03:00.29 | wook | Ttyl guys, cu |
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| 03:43.36 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 03:54.33 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 04:16.56 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 04:22.51 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 04:24.12 | TSCHAKeee | hmm Expansys not shipping 64GB N9 units yet in the US |
| 04:24.26 | TSCHAKeee | anyone know of anywhere else in the US that is? |
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| 05:55.11 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 06:02.16 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 06:06.41 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 06:12.56 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 06:14.52 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 06:22.05 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 08:12.04 | djszapi | X-Fade: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=soprano&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan -> Not possible to delete files, maybe because of the '+' character ? |
| 08:18.16 | X-Fade | djszapi: How do you want to delete? Using webui or osc? |
| 08:19.02 | djszapi | osc works; webui does not. |
| 08:19.12 | djszapi | but please do not delete this since it is now building. |
| 08:19.38 | djszapi | my guess is that the webinterface does not allow deleting packages containing '+' character. For instance, I cannot even upload them properly from the webui, just from osc. |
| 08:20.11 | X-Fade | djszapi: Ok, well let's hope that is an OBS 2.1 issue. We're going to upgrade to 2.3 this weekend :) |
| 08:20.54 | djszapi | X-Fade: okay. |
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| 08:40.16 | X-Fade | wants to point developers to http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4803, prepare your packages for apps.formeego.org |
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| 09:03.14 | alterego | lardman|gone: was gonna do a enum but string type is okay I guess ;) |
| 09:10.48 | dm8tbr | X-Fade: nice! :) |
| 09:11.05 | X-Fade | dm8tbr: Let's get the ball rolling :) |
| 09:11.59 | djszapi | X-Fade: you at least test it for regressions before the update ? |
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| 09:16.11 | X-Fade | djszapi: Yes, but no way you can find everything. |
| 09:16.25 | X-Fade | And 2.1 is basically unsupported atm, so we have to upgrade. |
| 09:18.28 | djszapi | ok, just saying since there were some regressions in the near past. |
| 09:21.27 | X-Fade | djszapi: Sure, and I guarantee there will be now too. |
| 09:21.43 | X-Fade | But let's hope the pros are more than the cons :) |
| 09:22.25 | djszapi | the problem is not that if there are corner cases regressions, but the fundamental ones should be caught imho. |
| 09:22.36 | djszapi | for instance a continous compiler crash is easy to catch .. |
| 09:23.00 | X-Fade | djszapi: That has nothing to do with OBS. |
| 09:23.11 | X-Fade | So that is not the problem. |
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| 09:23.15 | djszapi | well, it worked previously, and also works locally. |
| 09:23.26 | X-Fade | djszapi: That is qemu, which is not OBS. |
| 09:23.38 | X-Fade | djszapi: So upgrading our OBS will not fix that. |
| 09:23.41 | djszapi | qemu works fine locally. |
| 09:23.52 | djszapi | also, without an obs update previously, it worked oob |
| 09:24.23 | djszapi | and there were more continous issues like that that was easy to catch by us during the update "testing". |
| 09:24.26 | X-Fade | OBS is just a set of scripts which call the things that do the actual stuff. |
| 09:24.50 | X-Fade | Your problem is a complicated thing with arm emulation, has nothing to do with OBS per se. |
| 09:25.00 | djszapi | well, I do consider it as regressions for the users if something worked for them, and does not work after the obs update. |
| 09:25.19 | djszapi | whatever causes it, it is not nice, and should not be upgraded until figured out imho. |
| 09:25.19 | X-Fade | again, nothing to do with OBS. |
| 09:26.08 | djszapi | it only happens on OBS really, you can ask others who said the same. |
| 09:26.31 | X-Fade | It will also happen in a plain chroot with the same tools. |
| 09:26.42 | djszapi | never happened for me. |
| 09:26.50 | X-Fade | Anyway, not going to argue. I have better things to do. |
| 09:26.55 | djszapi | also, it even worked locally, and also another repository. |
| 09:27.12 | djszapi | that is a very sad consequence if a feedback is considerd as "arguing". |
| 09:27.52 | X-Fade | No, we're looking into things. This is complicated and you are very close to being a troll. |
| 09:29.33 | djszapi | All I said is that there were serious regressions, and would be better to have a bit more QA process for the upgrading. If this is trolling, okay, I stand it. |
| 09:30.36 | X-Fade | Well, you can help by using osc to do local builds and try with different versions of qemu. |
| 09:31.08 | djszapi | as I said, did, worked. |
| 09:31.19 | djszapi | that is why I gave this feedback for better QA in the future .. |
| 09:31.40 | X-Fade | djszapi: Where did you list the combinations that worked? |
| 09:31.52 | djszapi | actually, I even reported some of those. |
| 09:32.02 | djszapi | (no answer since reporting) |
| 09:32.11 | X-Fade | djszapi: I need exact versions, tested in openSUSE. |
| 09:32.25 | djszapi | yes, it is all in the relevant bugreports. |
| 09:32.52 | X-Fade | djszapi: Also, you can drop a qemu in your home project and try to build with that. |
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| 09:33.59 | djszapi | X-Fade: all we could do is watching with big innocent eyes why it works everywhere but c-obs. |
| 09:34.23 | X-Fade | This way you can help out yourself. |
| 09:34.24 | djszapi | ( and why the same package built previously before an update ) |
| 09:34.38 | X-Fade | Or you can keep talking about it and we might never find the real cause. |
| 09:34.52 | djszapi | what else can I do than testing locally ? |
| 09:35.04 | X-Fade | djszapi: Also, you can drop a qemu in your home project and try to build with that. |
| 09:35.08 | djszapi | and reporting the issue with the exact details ? |
| 09:35.23 | djszapi | I did not understand that sentence for the first try either. Could you please reword it ? |
| 09:35.36 | X-Fade | You can add a qemu package to your project. |
| 09:35.50 | X-Fade | You can then use that qemu instead of the system qemu. |
| 09:36.03 | djszapi | well, it is the same version basically. |
| 09:36.08 | X-Fade | So you can test different versions out on the obs version itself. |
| 09:36.24 | X-Fade | -version |
| 09:37.13 | djszapi | yes, sure, I can do that for my X package, but I am sure it is better to automate the regression unit tests before an upgrade. |
| 09:37.28 | djszapi | than everybody starts dropping "random" qemus into every homeprojects. |
| 09:37.53 | X-Fade | djszapi: No, that is not the point. But that will prove that that version is working for you and then I can replace the system qemu. |
| 09:38.06 | X-Fade | That way you actually help testing, instead of just complaining. |
| 09:38.24 | djszapi | it should be caught pre-update by the system, and not pro-update by individual users for X packages. |
| 09:39.01 | X-Fade | We're 2 guys doing it in our spare time. Hire me and get more support. |
| 09:39.15 | djszapi | that is not really I see as community |
| 09:39.17 | djszapi | to pay 2 people. |
| 09:39.28 | djszapi | I would more like prefer to give access to other contributors.. |
| 09:39.32 | djszapi | that is how the community works after all |
| 09:40.08 | X-Fade | Well, I told you how to help out. |
| 09:40.13 | X-Fade | goes to get coffee |
| 09:45.34 | vadimq | X-Fade: what project are you working on? |
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| 10:24.48 | flux | great. is devel-sh now gone? |
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| 10:25.15 | flux | ah, just renamed |
| 10:25.27 | flux | and no changes in output of accli -I. phew. |
| 10:25.32 | flux | (it's develsh now) |
| 10:26.27 | deram | devel-sh? what did that do? |
| 10:26.46 | flux | gives access to various things a normal root doesn't have |
| 10:26.47 | deram | remember using devel-su, but not -sh |
| 10:26.57 | flux | such as iptables |
| 10:27.03 | Kaadlajk | pretty sure it was always develsh |
| 10:27.25 | flux | hmm |
| 10:27.39 | kimju | iirc it was with both names. |
| 10:30.42 | Kaadlajk | kimju: true, at least with >1.13-11 version of develsh |
| 10:31.19 | MohammadAG | it was develsh afaik |
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| 11:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# devel |
| 11:58.46 | DocScrutinizer | devel-su develsh |
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| 12:03.03 | Kaadlajk | RM696-39-4_PR_001:~# devel |
| 12:03.03 | Kaadlajk | devel-sh devel-su develsh |
| 12:04.49 | mece | is it possible to get sudo on N950? |
| 12:05.18 | mece | I find devel-su inconvenient since I want the command history in one place |
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| 12:10.42 | deram | does devel-su have -c option for setting runned command |
| 12:12.10 | mece | deram, would that be like devel-su -c apt-get update |
| 12:12.40 | deram | probably -c "apt-get update" |
| 12:13.06 | mece | yes! |
| 12:13.11 | mece | nice thanks! |
| 12:13.12 | mece | :;D |
| 12:13.14 | mece | oops |
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| 12:13.49 | mece | hmm so perhaps I could alias that, now the other problem is that it always require password tho. |
| 12:13.54 | Velmont | Two questions; 1) How can I change font size in messages? - The web browser is also not so good as Android in zooming into text (because it doesn't restrict the width in the same way). |
| 12:14.15 | mece | whereas sudo usually have a certain time where you can use without re-entering password |
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| 12:14.35 | deram | mece: yyes.. that is one of the drawbacks |
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| 12:14.53 | mece | deram, is there anything in particular that hinders sudo from working? |
| 12:15.01 | Velmont | The second one I'm not so interested in myself, but an aquanitance asked about syncing with the N9 using Ovi Suite, -- it doesn't work he says. -- I use Linux so I don't care personally :-) |
| 12:15.12 | deram | I don't know if aegis lets you have own suid programs in there.... |
| 12:15.53 | deram | sudo would have to be owned by root and have SUID bit set... |
| 12:16.02 | mece | ok.. |
| 12:16.33 | mece | hmm there's sudo in the repos... |
| 12:16.47 | vadimq | question, is it possible to buy the N950 now? |
| 12:16.59 | mece | vadimq, no |
| 12:17.33 | vadimq | hmm, I figured, there seems to be a lot of talk about it though. So the N9 isn't getting a lot of use? |
| 12:18.30 | mece | vadimq, it's just that developers got N950's from Nokia, and some of them are here. |
| 12:18.54 | vadimq | makes sense |
| 12:19.13 | mece | deram, is there a way to test if one can set the suid bit? |
| 12:20.05 | deram | mece: copy /bin/sh to say /bin/mysh and chmod u+s /bin/mysh... then try to run it |
| 12:20.24 | deram | if you get root shell, suid worked |
| 12:21.57 | mece | run it as user? |
| 12:22.03 | deram | yes as user |
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| 12:22.11 | mece | I get "applet not found" |
| 12:24.22 | mece | but /bin/mysh is -rwsr-xr-x <- so it has the s there... |
| 12:25.16 | deram | it's probably not the setting the bit, but the system acting on it |
| 12:25.25 | mece | ok.. |
| 12:25.42 | mece | hmm /usr/bin/sudo is aegis protected, so I don't think I'll be messing with that. |
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| 12:28.15 | deram | mece: sorry, I made mistake.. didn't remember sh is busybox application in n9 |
| 12:28.25 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 12:28.38 | mece | deram, so what changes? |
| 12:29.01 | deram | you need to copy it somewhere else with exact name sh |
| 12:29.20 | deram | or try with any other app |
| 12:30.02 | mece | deram, but the goal would be to do chmod u+s /usr/bin/sudo ? |
| 12:30.21 | deram | yes, if it is not handled by aegis already |
| 12:30.47 | mece | well apparently not, but wouldn't aegis be upset if I did it? |
| 12:30.56 | deram | maybe.. |
| 12:31.26 | deram | /bin/devel-su does not seam to have suid on, so it would seem to be handled with aegis instead of suid bits... |
| 12:32.03 | deram | usually in linux sudo is suid program |
| 12:33.29 | kimju | with aegis and correct manifests you don't need to set the suid bit. |
| 12:34.14 | deram | I really need to look more into this whole aegis... |
| 12:36.59 | deram | it seems to be the road to root access in there, and the suid bit does nothin |
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| 12:40.55 | vadimq | deram: it looks like it's possible to load an alternate kernel to open things up, but that seems to make a lot of stuff stop working |
| 12:41.04 | vadimq | btw, what is aegis stopping you from doing? |
| 12:43.22 | deram | there was this question would sudo be possible to be used... I tried to answer, but was bit misinformed... |
| 12:43.52 | deram | so sudo with correct aegis manifest should be usable as is without any suiding? |
| 12:45.38 | clbr | vadimq: aegis was stopping me from directly modifying the calendar (sqlite) database. needed to delete hundreds of empty "PC-SYNC" calendars left from isync-plugin-testing. if you need examples |
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| 12:48.06 | vadimq | hmm, that does sound like a pain. How do you backup it? |
| 12:48.23 | vadimq | with the N900 I just rsync the whole thing regularly |
| 12:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | deram: aegis is the road to administration-"free" consumer-only devices. For sure not the road to "root access" whatever you think that means. You got root on HARM, just it doesn't do what you think, thanks to aegis |
| 12:50.26 | DocScrutinizer | deram: and you can't get the required aegis tokens, as some are available to Nokia only |
| 12:50.31 | clbr | vadimq: you can read it, just not modify |
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| 12:50.56 | vadimq | Here I'm hoping that an alternative fully open distro for phones and such devices catches on. Buy the device and reflash it |
| 12:50.59 | clbr | and also not restore from backup |
| 12:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | clbr: vadimq: indeed, restore is impossible |
| 12:51.40 | clbr | i can't see the point, reading should be forbidden for privary issues |
| 12:51.45 | deram | DocScrutinizer: yes.. I was thinking in means to gaining root access on the N9 harmattan. It seems to go through aegis and not kernel suid interpretation.. |
| 12:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | clbr: aegis is about protecting device from you, not protecting your data from threats |
| 12:53.28 | deram | and it is perfectly fine for now that way. |
| 12:53.28 | clbr | DocScrutinizer: I know |
| 12:53.29 | clbr | DocScrutinizer: I really wonder if it mostly about proctecting something in the device I shouldn't know. But let's not get paranoid |
| 12:53.51 | clbr | at least the hosts-file is used |
| 12:54.01 | clbr | and writeable |
| 12:54.15 | DocScrutinizer | clbr: it for example reliably forbids overclocking. Just for that I almost might like aegis |
| 12:55.01 | clbr | my N900 is running better with 850 than the stock 600, but I unterstand the idea |
| 12:55.07 | DocScrutinizer | clbr: a lot of files are writeable. The question is what happens immediately after write access ;-P Buzzword MALF |
| 12:56.03 | clbr | It just should be possible to have your own signing key, a user-controllable aegis |
| 12:56.03 | DocScrutinizer | the fun part of aegis: it doesn't forbid, it punishes |
| 12:56.04 | vadimq | DocScrutinizer: tried flashing it with Meego CE? |
| 12:56.07 | clbr | yeah, very old-school concept of society control |
| 12:56.10 | vadimq | hm? punishes how? that's interesting |
| 12:56.16 | DocScrutinizer | clbr: won't ever happen, for very complicated set of reasons |
| 12:56.18 | clbr | all those cloud-service are far more advanced |
| 12:56.37 | DocScrutinizer | (user key) |
| 12:56.56 | clbr | in that they let the user self-control himself |
| 12:57.22 | clbr | DocScrutinizer: If the base keys are at Nokia, maybe something smuggles them out |
| 12:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | vadimq: search for MALF |
| 12:57.40 | clbr | but I read your messages from yesterday, thanks for the explanations |
| 12:58.12 | razvanpetru | hi everyone, quick question - running around with devmode enabled on an unsecured wi-fi - what could be the consequences? |
| 12:58.50 | clbr | razvanpetru: depends on if you changed the root password, if I understand correctly |
| 12:58.54 | vadimq | DocScrutinizer: hm, search where? Not finding anything on google |
| 12:59.26 | clbr | device MALFunction |
| 12:59.28 | razvanpetru | nothing changed, out of the box harmattan with devmode enabled |
| 12:59.39 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg |
| 12:59.41 | razvanpetru | a lot of people were doing this at devdays I bet :) |
| 12:59.44 | Jonno | razvanpetru: Shouldn't do anything unless someone sees your devmode password, or know the password for "user" or "root" (which have a default value you really should change) |
| 12:59.56 | clbr | razvanpetru: then everyone should be able to login as root via ssh |
| 13:00.23 | vadimq | DocScrutinizer: whoa, screwy. Is this fixable by reflashing? |
| 13:00.30 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
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| 13:00.40 | Jonno | It's fixable by changing your password using the terminal. |
| 13:00.47 | b00^portal | hello guys |
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| 13:01.04 | DocScrutinizer | the result of changing any aegis-protected bit, be it a file, a permission, whatever |
| 13:01.08 | clbr | razvanpetru: yes, use use "passwd" as root and set your own |
| 13:01.09 | b00^portal | question: where would I get information on the nfc driver in the MeeGo/Harmattan linux kernel ? |
| 13:01.16 | vadimq | DocScrutinizer: ok, I'm convinced I really don't like this thing. So any ways around it, or funtional third party firmware? |
| 13:01.35 | DocScrutinizer | get meegoCE |
| 13:01.47 | clbr | vadimq: one day nemo might be an alternative |
| 13:01.49 | DocScrutinizer | forget harmattan, completely |
| 13:01.57 | clbr | meegoCE = nemo |
| 13:02.05 | DocScrutinizer | err, yep |
| 13:02.27 | Jonno | MeeGo CE isn't really ready yet, but if you want to play around with it, see my howto at http://jon.severinsson.net/N9CE |
| 13:02.53 | Jonno | Nemo should be better, but are only "ready" (eg alpha) for N900, no N950 or N9 yet. |
| 13:03.03 | razvanpetru | thanks, so let's assume someone did login as root with ssh, can they install malware/spyware or does aegis at least prevent that? |
| 13:03.24 | vadimq | Jonno: is it expected to be functional as a phone with full support for the hardware? |
| 13:03.24 | Jonno | they can install anything you could, eg any arm deb |
| 13:03.34 | Jonno | vadimq: NO |
| 13:03.53 | flux | can one enable the 'install from non-ovi sources' option over ssh? |
| 13:03.58 | Jonno | N9CE's only connectivity is the USB cable. |
| 13:04.09 | DocScrutinizer | razvanpetru: the fun bit is aegis doesn't completely forbid installing "malware" |
| 13:04.26 | DocScrutinizer | depending on your definition of malware |
| 13:04.46 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Is it possible to programatically tick 'install apps from non-ovi sources' |
| 13:04.52 | razvanpetru | keybd logger, something that reads tracker & uploads it somewhere |
| 13:04.54 | vadimq | Jonno: you mean not now but maybe later, or probably not ever? |
| 13:04.57 | DocScrutinizer | aegis however ensures the *system* is intact |
| 13:05.04 | razvanpetru | I'll just reflash this thing :( |
| 13:05.12 | clbr | DocScrutinizer: but it forbid installing malware blockers, like a local visual firewall |
| 13:05.26 | Jonno | vadimq: not now, but probably in a few months, when Nemo gets of the ground. |
| 13:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: good question, for sure it is possible, just the question: which tokens are needed |
| 13:06.09 | SpeedEvil | I mean - if it can't be - you need to get your malware into ovi store before it can be automatically run |
| 13:06.17 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 13:06.22 | clbr | razvanpetru: I wouldn't think script kiddies are already targeting N9/N950 in developer mode |
| 13:06.25 | razvanpetru | has anyone done any dbus work on n9? I hear there might be a vuln where mail user/pass are sent in the clear through dbus... |
| 13:06.44 | DocScrutinizer | but OP asked for a situation where develmode already enabled |
| 13:06.44 | b00^portal | anyone working with nfc on N9 here by any chance ? |
| 13:06.45 | razvanpetru | clbr: yeah, but maybe someone was naughty at qtdd |
| 13:06.55 | razvanpetru | b00 - I am :) |
| 13:07.03 | clbr | i see ;-) |
| 13:07.25 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, where do I get info on the hardware rfid reader they have on that phone ? |
| 13:07.28 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: >><razvanpetru> thanks, so let's assume someone did login as root with ssh...<< |
| 13:07.33 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, info on driver, and support libs, etc |
| 13:07.46 | flux | docscrutinizer, but you need to enable separately the ability to install non-ovi apps, don't you? |
| 13:08.02 | flux | but if that is as well enabled, well, perhaps you need to ensure people don't log in as root to your phone :) |
| 13:08.39 | *** join/#harmattan xmlich02 (~imlich@2001:67c:1220:80c:21c:c0ff:fe18:9398) |
| 13:08.41 | *** join/#harmattan TSCHAKeee (~TSCHAKeee@173.9.2.181-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 13:08.50 | razvanpetru | b00: it seems you need very low level info and I don't know where you might get that. I assume you need to do an API partnering with Nokia or know someone that works on the NFC team. |
| 13:09.05 | razvanpetru | BUT, if you just need to use the thing, the docs/libraries are quite good |
| 13:09.20 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, i need to get lower acces that the Qt mobility |
| 13:09.41 | razvanpetru | lower than sending commands? |
| 13:09.44 | b00^portal | I need to know if there is any configuration you can set on the kernel module for example, |
| 13:09.55 | b00^portal | what if at all nfcd can be configured , |
| 13:09.59 | razvanpetru | ah yes, you need to talk with meego team, there is no way to get that info |
| 13:10.03 | b00^portal | whats inside the nfc hal they have, etc |
| 13:10.13 | b00^portal | ah, i see |
| 13:10.43 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, is that meego team at Nokia ? I tried at #meego, and was redirected here kindly :) |
| 13:11.02 | DocScrutinizer | b00^portal: no way to mess with kernel modules etc, paegis forbids |
| 13:11.07 | clbr | try #meltemi (just kidding) |
| 13:11.18 | b00^portal | paegis ? |
| 13:11.19 | razvanpetru | b00, I don't think you can get to them on IRC, at least not this server |
| 13:12.06 | razvanpetru | heh, does settings > reset > clear device restore the device as I would flash a bin on it? I don't want to flash it unless I need to... |
| 13:12.10 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, oh i see. So what would you recomment? I can post on Nokia Developer forum , see if anyone would reply ? |
| 13:12.13 | DocScrutinizer | ~paegis is the ~aegis policy, a short term used to make those happy who claim aegis is great and just the particular policy is flawed |
| 13:12.13 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 13:12.39 | clbr | razvanpetru: no, root password e.g. does not get reset by a factory reset |
| 13:12.51 | clbr | razvanpetru: mostly /home/user and /opt i guess |
| 13:13.04 | razvanpetru | clbr: good enough to get rid of malware/spyware? :) |
| 13:13.15 | clbr | don't think so |
| 13:13.35 | razvanpetru | grr |
| 13:13.40 | clbr | I had problems to get developer mode activated after, posted the workaround here yesterday |
| 13:14.02 | clbr | and there isn't an official flash image for the N9, or? |
| 13:14.30 | razvanpetru | nope, not yet afaik |
| 13:14.31 | DocScrutinizer | I guess there's none yet |
| 13:14.45 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, what do you do with nfc on N9 ? |
| 13:16.14 | razvanpetru | b00 - pokenMOBILE |
| 13:16.24 | b00^portal | a game ? |
| 13:17.08 | razvanpetru | no, it's like a digital businesscard |
| 13:17.25 | Corsac | btw, do some people here got their device from handtec and have a voucher code? |
| 13:17.41 | razvanpetru | it's the so-called "social" NFC |
| 13:17.58 | flux | it's a shame it's not the secure variant |
| 13:18.27 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, social nfc, ok ... no clue :) |
| 13:19.02 | razvanpetru | b00 - well you can exchange contacts, add them to a timeline and then see what they've been up to. pick up objects from conferences and then comment on them, view attached docs, pics, etc |
| 13:19.10 | razvanpetru | it's social because you interact with people |
| 13:19.15 | razvanpetru | secure nfc is payments, etc |
| 13:19.21 | b00^portal | ah ok |
| 13:19.21 | DocScrutinizer | razvanpetru: hah, my r0ket did sth like that :-) |
| 13:20.16 | razvanpetru | r0ket? :) |
| 13:20.40 | razvanpetru | flux: what would you use secure nfc for? |
| 13:20.42 | hiemanshu | a badge thing IIRC |
| 13:20.58 | flux | razvanpetru, for example physical access control |
| 13:21.10 | flux | of course, I could just make-do with the current one and ignore the security issues :) |
| 13:21.29 | razvanpetru | can you work around them enough or do you really need the hw? |
| 13:22.07 | flux | I don't know anything about the hw or the protocol :) |
| 13:22.15 | flux | but it sounds to me like only the secure nfc is, well, secure |
| 13:22.22 | clbr | razvanpetru: isn't secure NFC mostly about certification? |
| 13:22.51 | razvanpetru | clbr, I think you need special hw also |
| 13:22.51 | flux | that is, not subject to MITM or replay attacks or whatever |
| 13:23.21 | *** join/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
| 13:23.22 | b00^portal | <razvanpetru> lower than sending commands? |
| 13:23.29 | b00^portal | can you send commands directly ? |
| 13:23.32 | flux | I'm not saying it's less secure than simple access control tags people use these days |
| 13:23.43 | flux | (as I don't really know) |
| 13:23.47 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, tag specific commands |
| 13:24.59 | razvanpetru | b00, you can |
| 13:25.18 | RST38h | yawns, asks what's up |
| 13:25.22 | razvanpetru | although, I think this is only on Symbian. the docs say that maemo6 does not support tag specific access |
| 13:25.32 | b00^portal | razvanpetru, yes ... |
| 13:25.37 | b00^portal | why, or why .. |
| 13:25.40 | b00^portal | seriously a flaw |
| 13:25.41 | razvanpetru | maybe it will in later pr versions |
| 13:25.50 | b00^portal | yea ok |
| 13:27.12 | chouchoune | hi |
| 13:27.12 | DocScrutinizer | razvanpetru: http://r0ket.badge.events.ccc.de/software |
| 13:27.35 | chouchoune | hw specification doesn't include security I think |
| 13:27.55 | DocScrutinizer | http://r0ket.badge.events.ccc.de/ |
| 13:28.21 | chouchoune | Ernst Haselsteiner and Klemens BreitfuĂź described different possible types of attacks, and detail how to leverage NFC's resistance to Man-in-the-middle attacks to establish a specific key.[37] Unfortunately, as this technique is not part of the ISO standard, NFC offers no protection against eavesdropping and can be vulnerable to data modifications. Applications may use higher-layer cryptographic |
| 13:28.23 | chouchoune | protocols (e.g., SSL) to establish a secure channel. Ensuring security for NFC data will require the cooperation of multiple parties: device providers, who will need to safeguard NFC-enabled phones with strong cryptography and authentication protocols; customers, who will need to protect their personal devices and data with passwords, keypad locks, and anti-virus software; and application providers |
| 13:28.25 | chouchoune | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:28.28 | RST38h | Doc: What is our current firmware version btw? |
| 13:28.53 | RST38h | chouchoune: A URL would suffice |
| 13:29.10 | chouchoune | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication |
| 13:29.18 | chouchoune | > Security aspects |
| 13:29.24 | razvanpetru | Doc: cool |
| 13:29.59 | chouchoune | concerning Qt, I think that secure NFC is not part of the SDK yet but will be in the future |
| 13:30.54 | DocScrutinizer | sorry guys, no highlighting on "doc:" |
| 13:31.24 | DocScrutinizer | RST38h: see /topic ? |
| 13:31.47 | RST38h | Aha, tthanks |
| 13:31.54 | RST38h | So, Koreans have not got the update yet |
| 13:32.02 | RST38h | And thus killed my Ovi submissions |
| 13:32.23 | *** join/#harmattan rlinfati (~rlinfati@edu128.deis.unibo.it) |
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| 13:38.29 | DocScrutinizer | (doc:) if you feel DocScrutinizer is too long to type, and your IRC client is too crappy to feature auto nick completion, you may use "joerg:" or "DocSc:" |
| 13:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | even docsc: |
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| 13:40.33 | razvanpetru | pidgin does have nick completion, but it's not auto :) |
| 13:45.13 | rlinfati | b00^portal, what do you wanna do with nfc= |
| 13:45.34 | b00^portal | rlinfati, ok , |
| 13:46.16 | b00^portal | I want , for starters, know more about the hardware reader and driver, |
| 13:47.04 | b00^portal | to know if they can pickup tags which are not common nfc (yet) |
| 13:47.09 | *** join/#harmattan CepiPerez (~Matias_Pe@190.221.197.125) |
| 13:47.54 | b00^portal | i have a specific tag (looking for an ISO standard..), which , manufactuerr says, |
| 13:48.05 | b00^portal | are readable by NFC enabled sets |
| 13:48.14 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 13:48.15 | b00^portal | however, as I tried, i dont' see N9' |
| 13:48.20 | b00^portal | picking it up, thus |
| 13:48.55 | b00^portal | I'm wondering if its really the reader, driver, configuration, nfc lib, or .. which is not ready |
| 13:48.55 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 13:49.12 | X-Fade | b00^portal: N9 sees my passport for instance. |
| 13:49.16 | rlinfati | the N9 detect the tag ? |
| 13:49.20 | djszapi | X-Fade: is it possible to upload files to obs containing '+' character using the webui ? (2.3 version) |
| 13:49.26 | b00^portal | I'm working with this specific tag on the EEPROM side (internal system), and external PC RFID client |
| 13:49.37 | b00^portal | X-Fade, yes, i know, it reads my bus card too |
| 13:50.09 | b00^portal | rlinfati, as far as the nfcinfo test app , and the traces from the nfsd - no |
| 13:50.20 | b00^portal | but .. I hope its because its misconfigured :)))) |
| 13:50.22 | b00^portal | stupid me ? |
| 13:50.49 | X-Fade | I can unlock angrybirds levels with my passport ;) |
| 13:50.56 | b00^portal | hahahah :) |
| 13:51.02 | X-Fade | It actually worked :) |
| 13:51.10 | b00^portal | yyea it does |
| 13:51.12 | rlinfati | X-Fade, i can unlock using "vi" |
| 13:51.28 | X-Fade | rlinfati: Yeah, did that too. But that is less cool :D |
| 13:51.39 | b00^portal | i did not quite get why they did this |
| 13:51.44 | b00^portal | but its ..fun i guess |
| 13:52.51 | rlinfati | b00^portal, if the nfc not detect the tag, you can not do nothing about, aegis protect all files |
| 13:53.22 | *** join/#harmattan rafael2k (~rafael2k@187.106.20.152) |
| 13:53.23 | rlinfati | if you edit, modify the nfc stack, the N9 will be MALF |
| 13:53.37 | X-Fade | djszapi: Yes. |
| 13:53.59 | b00^portal | rlinfati, whats a dissapointment.. and now i need ot check wtf is aegis |
| 13:54.09 | DocScrutinizer | ~aegis |
| 13:54.09 | infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif |
| 13:54.23 | rafael2k | Hi people, I mailed Quim about the aegis and the SDK been outdated |
| 13:54.39 | rafael2k | I got a "look at the forum" anwser |
| 13:54.57 | rlinfati | b00^portal, or use MeegoCE/Mer (it's support nfc ? ) or .... Âż? |
| 13:55.14 | b00^portal | MeegoCE/Mer ? |
| 13:55.19 | b00^portal | ok , .. will look |
| 13:55.24 | b00^portal | CE - windows CE ??? |
| 13:55.43 | djszapi | Community Edition. |
| 13:55.46 | rafael2k | If I have time this night I'll try to write a script that gets a binary I want to run and packs it into a deb, install the deb and run the binary |
| 13:55.47 | b00^portal | oops |
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| 13:56.08 | *** join/#harmattan pycage (~mgrimme@178-26-197-61-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 13:56.12 | rlinfati | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N950 |
| 13:56.22 | djszapi | rlinfati: nfc is a hardware chip, it is not just software thingy |
| 13:56.34 | b00^portal | yea, and no info in that chip, |
| 13:56.39 | rafael2k | I would consider the N950 my best phone if I could get rid of this annoying aegis stuff |
| 13:56.40 | pycage | X-Fade, hi |
| 13:56.44 | djszapi | hard to manage nfc without the relevant chip ;) |
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| 13:56.59 | b00^portal | i've asked on Nokia forum, perhaps they reply .. unlikely will get anywhere . ah wlel |
| 13:57.02 | b00^portal | well pitty |
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| 13:59.19 | djszapi | pitty what ? |
| 14:00.19 | b00^portal | the main thing that my tag not picked up, and that, i hoped perhaps I can get some more info on that hardware reader, get soem more info and perhaps add the required configuration for it to read my tag ? :) |
| 14:00.52 | b00^portal | btw, I dont' see N9 listed as able to run the meegoCE |
| 14:01.23 | rafael2k | b00^portal: try at #meego channel |
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| 14:02.09 | b00^portal | k |
| 14:03.02 | djszapi | rafael2k: what is wrong about aegis ? |
| 14:04.19 | b00^portal | is there an 'aegis disabler' :) |
| 14:04.30 | djszapi | ofc nope |
| 14:04.44 | djszapi | rafael2k: the script you wanna write is an available deb tool for many years.. |
| 14:05.50 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 14:06.20 | DocScrutinizer | no |
| 14:08.54 | DocScrutinizer | and it seems Nokia platsec is resolutely determined to fix any detail in aegis that would allow any such aegis disabler |
| 14:09.50 | b00^portal | well its gay |
| 14:09.59 | DocScrutinizer | (which btw is the reason I'm still on 22-6 here) |
| 14:10.22 | b00^portal | DocScrutinizer, and what is a 22-6 ? |
| 14:11.05 | DocScrutinizer | the first firmware version N950 shipped with - allows some eagis disabling via a hack |
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| 14:35.48 | gri | hmm |
| 14:36.03 | gri | whole city controlled by the police now, machine guns everywhere |
| 14:36.46 | Corsac | where? |
| 14:37.24 | gri | augsburg germany - some guys shot a policeman this morning and now the bavarian police is checking everywhere in the city |
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| 14:38.10 | Corsac | wow |
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| 14:50.33 | DocScrutinizer | does birthday "calendar" work in recent RP ? |
| 14:51.15 | DocScrutinizer | yay Augsburg |
| 14:58.08 | gri | RP? |
| 15:00.00 | gri | docScrutinizer: yes, very nice ... the sister of my girlfriend is a policegirl (?) but on holiday these days |
| 15:00.46 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.73.237) |
| 15:01.27 | Arkenoi | how to get to the battery on n950? i remove screws first, but cover still does not go off, what next? |
| 15:04.07 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Why do you need to be in there? |
| 15:04.41 | Arkenoi | i bricked it and seems that battery is dead, i want to charge it to try coldflashing |
| 15:05.01 | MohammadAG | I thought it should charge fine as is |
| 15:05.02 | pycage | X-Fade, hi, I removed a few bugs on the apps client |
| 15:05.04 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Use a usb cable to charge. |
| 15:05.24 | Arkenoi | X-Fade: would i ask if it charged? it is completely bricked. |
| 15:05.28 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: And start the flasher. It will charge your device before it flashes. (Needs 10%) |
| 15:05.58 | Arkenoi | completely, i mean, it does not appear as usb device at all |
| 15:06.00 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: I had that happen and when I left it in the flasher it charged and flashed it. |
| 15:06.20 | Arkenoi | nor it did flash when it was recognised as "Nokia ROM" |
| 15:06.22 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: But it did blip the led flash a few times. |
| 15:06.52 | X-Fade | Ehm, the white led on the front I mean. |
| 15:07.27 | X-Fade | pycage: Ah, did you find out the install issue? |
| 15:07.46 | pycage | the check no longer hangs now |
| 15:07.53 | pycage | i was able to install attitude e.g. |
| 15:07.56 | X-Fade | pycage: Cool. |
| 15:08.08 | pycage | some other stuff could not be installed because the packages must be in another repo |
| 15:08.36 | Arkenoi | so i better try to get to the battery, it might help at least |
| 15:08.40 | X-Fade | Yeah, not every app in Apps installs now anyway. Left over from some of our tests. |
| 15:08.51 | pycage | I'm now trying to build on OBS, but OBS itself seems to have some issues atm |
| 15:08.57 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Yeah then you can charge it manually. |
| 15:09.17 | X-Fade | pycage: Yeah, I just imported beta2. So it takes a while for that to sync over to meego.com. |
| 15:09.27 | Arkenoi | i need to take the battery out and to use clip-on charger |
| 15:09.40 | Arkenoi | and then try coldflashing |
| 15:09.43 | pycage | X-Fade, ah, ok |
| 15:10.16 | X-Fade | pycage: Did you fix the makefile generation? |
| 15:10.29 | pycage | i hope so |
| 15:10.39 | X-Fade | pycage: hehe, let's see :) |
| 15:11.25 | pycage | version is displayed again in the packages list |
| 15:11.40 | X-Fade | Ok, cool. |
| 15:11.49 | pycage | that was my fault that it got lost :) |
| 15:12.13 | X-Fade | pycage: hehe, that happens :) |
| 15:12.21 | Arkenoi | so the question remains: how i take the cover off? |
| 15:12.54 | pycage | Arkenoi, I don't think you're supposed to do that, though, since the N950 is property of Nokia and not your's actually ;) |
| 15:13.34 | Arkenoi | pycage: i am pretty sure they won't blame me if i try that :-) |
| 15:13.36 | X-Fade | I guess that is still fair use. |
| 15:13.46 | kimju | Arkenoi, remove the screws, then start from the speaker corner, lastly the usb connector. note that the whole back cover comes off, not only the grooved part where the screws where |
| 15:13.49 | berndhs | Arkenoi: torx 4 screwdriver I think |
| 15:14.00 | DocScrutinizer | achipa considered removing and losing the screws a normal part of the unboxing procedure of N950 |
| 15:14.08 | Arkenoi | i already unscrewed it |
| 15:14.15 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 15:14.27 | Arkenoi | just afraid to apply any force to the cover as something might break |
| 15:14.31 | DocScrutinizer | then open it next to speaker. See landing page as in /topic |
| 15:14.32 | pycage | DocScrutinizer, lol :) |
| 15:14.36 | pycage | good to know that |
| 15:14.52 | kimju | it comes off quite easily, no excessive force required. |
| 15:15.16 | DocScrutinizer | yes, but you need to start next to speaker, not in the middle |
| 15:15.24 | Jaffa | pycage: Installed using your client? |
| 15:15.29 | DocScrutinizer | both ends are part of the cover and come off as well |
| 15:15.33 | pycage | Jaffa, yes |
| 15:15.56 | Jaffa | pycage: Cool. What's the project page coordinating your installer / any screenshots yet? |
| 15:16.00 | X-Fade | Jaffa: We're using your app as a test in Apps :) |
| 15:16.17 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Hardware_related_bits |
| 15:16.17 | X-Fade | Jaffa: But then again, it has always been one of the first apps :) |
| 15:16.22 | pycage | Jaffa, sorry, there are no screenshots yet, but we have a git repo for the code |
| 15:16.50 | pycage | Jaffa, https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-applications/meego-apps-client |
| 15:16.55 | X-Fade | pycage: I'll add some screenhots to the project. |
| 15:17.11 | X-Fade | pycage: We need it to put the client in Apps anyway :D |
| 15:17.31 | pycage | X-Fade, yeah :D |
| 15:18.25 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: but al that won't earn you anything regading battery charging as long as you don't own a external charger or compatible device or fresh batery |
| 15:18.45 | X-Fade | pycage: Your app is now building. |
| 15:18.45 | razvanpetru | like nokia dc-11 |
| 15:19.04 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: i am going to buy and external charger |
| 15:19.27 | pycage | X-Fade, nice *crossing fingers* :) |
| 15:19.32 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: ok then, You managed to remove the back cover now? |
| 15:19.45 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: 4V, 1A should be fine for a few minutes too ;) |
| 15:19.53 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: it's really easy when you know how to do it |
| 15:20.11 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: If you have a lab powersupply. |
| 15:20.35 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: yep |
| 15:20.38 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: lab PSU is usually way too "hard" |
| 15:21.10 | DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: I.E. way too low impedance |
| 15:22.09 | X-Fade | pycage: Very long madde paths still in there. |
| 15:22.54 | DocScrutinizer | unless you have a PSU that doesn'T fold back but rather limits the max current and you can adjust that to 1A (or rather 750mA) |
| 15:22.54 | Jaffa | X-Fade: Quite right :-) |
| 15:23.17 | Arkenoi | i wonder why they made it the way it may get stuck in situation it cannot charge |
| 15:23.45 | DocScrutinizer | usually lab PSU have a fold back characteristic that basically completely switches off output voltage when max current gets tripped |
| 15:24.08 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Normally if you leave it on regular usb it will do some emergency charging. |
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| 15:24.25 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Will still act dead, but in fact it charges. |
| 15:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 15:24.42 | DocScrutinizer | well, LED will shine, or even flash |
| 15:24.51 | pycage | X-Fade, hmm, right. the Makefiles don't have to be there anyway since they're autogenerated by qmake :) |
| 15:25.14 | X-Fade | pycage: But your qmake includepath or so is wrong. |
| 15:25.15 | DocScrutinizer | afaik |
| 15:25.19 | DocScrutinizer | not tested yet |
| 15:25.42 | X-Fade | pycage: Should point to /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf instead of /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/sysroots/meego-core-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.2.0-fs/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf |
| 15:25.50 | Arkenoi | X-Fade: seems that it does not. i guess while it presented itself as "nokia ROM" there was some remaining charge and when it is gone it became completely deaf and dumb |
| 15:26.11 | pycage | X-Fade, which file do you mean? |
| 15:26.20 | DocScrutinizer | and, as X-Fade mentioned, plugging it to PC with flasher started will always initiate charging |
| 15:26.28 | Arkenoi | i have no other explanation to the way it behaves |
| 15:26.28 | X-Fade | pycage: Well, it shows now in attica. |
| 15:26.49 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Did you keep it in your pocket for a while and then tried charging? |
| 15:27.04 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: if it still shows up on USB, yes |
| 15:27.10 | X-Fade | Arkenoi: Added warmth might just push it over the edge. |
| 15:27.25 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: err, what? shows up on USB? |
| 15:27.30 | Arkenoi | X-Fade: yes |
| 15:27.45 | X-Fade | Too bad. I guess you really have to do the hack thing then. |
| 15:28.22 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: as i mentioned before, it entered "completely dead" state after being detected as "Nokia ROM" which still refused cold flash for a while |
| 15:28.38 | Arkenoi | before that it was detected as "Nokia update mode" and tried to flash |
| 15:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | that's where flasher kicks in |
| 15:28.59 | Arkenoi | failed with rootfs, though, complaining about certificates and stuff. |
| 15:29.10 | DocScrutinizer | you may need that -charge-battery parameter |
| 15:29.14 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: now there is no "Nokia ROM", just nothing at all |
| 15:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:29.31 | Arkenoi | when you plug it in there is no new device in USB |
| 15:30.07 | DocScrutinizer | sorry "in USB" doesn't translate to any of my MMI on my PC |
| 15:30.07 | Arkenoi | and i hope charging might help |
| 15:30.58 | Arkenoi | huh? i just check dmesg to see if anything new appears, there is nothing |
| 15:31.07 | DocScrutinizer | if you say there's no log in your PC's syslog then I'd say you probably should get an external charger |
| 15:31.18 | Arkenoi | bingo |
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| 15:31.27 | Arkenoi | that's what i am trying to do :-) |
| 15:31.52 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: actually i still feel there is a bit of misdesign in the fact such a state is possible |
| 15:32.12 | DocScrutinizer | though actually bat removal for 5 min might reset some hw to a state where it resumes emergency charging |
| 15:32.27 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: for sure |
| 15:32.33 | Arkenoi | hmm, worth trying :-) |
| 15:32.41 | DocScrutinizer | this must not happen, ever |
| 15:33.01 | DocScrutinizer | though, wait a minute |
| 15:33.26 | DocScrutinizer | emergency charging works *only* with a Nokia conforming fastcharger |
| 15:33.45 | DocScrutinizer | by detecting the D+- short |
| 15:34.03 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: well, will try that better, thanks |
| 15:34.10 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
| 15:34.34 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@173-152.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 15:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | come back report please |
| 15:35.35 | *** join/#harmattan pH5 (~ircchatte@brsg-4dbb114e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:35.41 | Arkenoi | wow, i got led lit |
| 15:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 15:35.50 | DocScrutinizer | toldya |
| 15:35.53 | Arkenoi | not blinking, just steady light |
| 15:35.56 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 15:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | that's emergency charging |
| 15:36.29 | DocScrutinizer | when it starts to blink, this means CPU actually "booted" (something, probably NOLO) |
| 15:37.45 | DocScrutinizer | shouldn't take too long until that |
| 15:37.54 | DocScrutinizer | usually a few minutes max |
| 15:37.57 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-89-241-10-50.as13285.net) |
| 15:38.43 | DocScrutinizer | tha miracle of BQ24153 charger chip ;-) |
| 15:39.05 | DocScrutinizer | does autonomous charging, without CPU supporting it |
| 15:39.36 | DocScrutinizer | needs enable from USB PHY detecting D+- short though |
| 15:40.20 | DocScrutinizer | once battery level reaches the threshold where CPU can come up, the system will boot, I.E. load NOLO |
| 15:40.41 | DocScrutinizer | NOLO probably switches LED to flashing mode then, and continues to chage a bit more |
| 15:40.52 | DocScrutinizer | eventually it tries to boot into linux |
| 15:41.20 | Arkenoi | i was back to my n900 for two days |
| 15:41.36 | Arkenoi | all woes of modest, microb and others |
| 15:41.39 | DocScrutinizer | that one works exactly same way |
| 15:41.48 | DocScrutinizer | regarding charging |
| 15:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | so basically ~flatbatrecover applies to N950 as well |
| 15:42.23 | DocScrutinizer | ~flatbatrecover |
| 15:42.24 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover |
| 15:43.01 | DocScrutinizer | s/amber/white/ |
| 15:43.21 | DocScrutinizer | bat removal dispensable, usually |
| 15:45.40 | DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: still no flashing amber err white? |
| 15:45.48 | Arkenoi | yep |
| 15:45.56 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:45.59 | Arkenoi | still constantly lit |
| 15:46.02 | pycage | X-Fade, looking good now. I killed the unnecessary Makefiles |
| 15:46.04 | DocScrutinizer | well, keep it |
| 15:46.17 | rafael2k | djszapi: what deb tool? |
| 15:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | it's charging |
| 15:47.31 | DocScrutinizer | if you haven't killed your system so it won't boot up normally even on good battery, you will recover from flatbat flawlessly this way |
| 15:48.09 | Arkenoi | i guess it is killed, so i need to coldflash probably |
| 15:49.14 | DocScrutinizer | then you should snatch it as soon as constant white changes to flashing, or LCD lits up, and plug it to waiting flasher *immediately* |
| 15:50.09 | rafael2k | people, is it possible to install a firmware older then mine, lets say beta2 which allows aegis in a relaxed mode? |
| 15:50.27 | DocScrutinizer | as you only got like 60s until the main system trying to boot up will deplete battery again so much that CPU will stall |
| 15:52.15 | DocScrutinizer | no charging on defect system, no flashing a clean system on discharged battery |
| 15:52.19 | DocScrutinizer | deadlock |
| 15:53.05 | DocScrutinizer | you got an extremly short window after emergency charging dfinished where you could use N950 flasher to make it continue charging |
| 15:53.50 | Arkenoi | ok! says bettery is low and it is now charging (while trying to coldflash) |
| 15:54.00 | DocScrutinizer | COOOĂ– |
| 15:54.01 | Arkenoi | and i should retry in a few minutes |
| 15:54.03 | DocScrutinizer | L |
| 15:54.14 | Arkenoi | (led still does not blink but i guess it is ok) |
| 15:54.21 | *** part/#harmattan razvanpetru (~razvan@188.27.87.32) |
| 15:54.22 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 15:56.23 | rafael2k | DocScrutinizer: are you still using beta firmware? |
| 15:56.35 | DocScrutinizer | 22-6 |
| 15:57.08 | rafael2k | do you think it`s safe to re-flash to an older version (I'm with latest one)? |
| 15:57.22 | DocScrutinizer | it allows me to do my hw investigation hacking |
| 15:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | no, downgrading is not allowed |
| 15:57.45 | rafael2k | no? |
| 15:57.49 | rafael2k | oish |
| 15:57.54 | DocScrutinizer | will defintely not work |
| 15:58.02 | rafael2k | how dumb I was... |
| 15:58.09 | rafael2k | :/ |
| 16:02.30 | Arkenoi | waiting.. after a few minutes flasher still reports that battery is at 0% |
| 16:02.34 | *** join/#harmattan piggz (~piggz@host-89-241-10-50.as13285.net) |
| 16:03.38 | Arkenoi | after a few months with n950 going back to n900 is painful, despite the much better variety of software available |
| 16:04.40 | Arkenoi | ah, ok, now it is 2% so it is really charging |
| 16:06.37 | *** part/#harmattan b00^portal (~ivan@10.81-167-85.customer.lyse.net) |
| 16:09.44 | DocScrutinizer | cool |
| 16:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | you actually made it |
| 16:10.17 | SpeedEvil | Arkenoi: :) |
| 16:10.30 | DocScrutinizer | when exactly did you switch from wallcharger to PC+flasher? |
| 16:11.48 | Lilltiger | Is there no Scratchbox for Windows? |
| 16:13.25 | DocScrutinizer | Lilltiger: all the ones that *don't* answer right now are probably those who use linux anyway and don't know about windows |
| 16:13.36 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 16:14.05 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:14.43 | Lilltiger | DocScrutinizer: I normaly use linux as well, just a bit in a gaming addiction right now :p |
| 16:15.30 | MohammadAG | <Arkenoi> after a few months with n950 going back to n900 is painful, despite the much better variety of software available |
| 16:15.38 | MohammadAG | believe me, you'll get used to it |
| 16:15.42 | MohammadAG | I got an iPod to help |
| 16:15.51 | MohammadAG | well, help understand how good the N900 is |
| 16:16.06 | Lilltiger | But as noone seems to try out XBMC on the N9 i figured id do it myself.. but to lazy to boot back into linux to set stuff up |
| 16:19.43 | Lilltiger | Also, do anyone know if there are some work being done on the media player used in the browser on the N9, because it crashes alot, and also cant play all stuff, like svt play mobile streams cant be watched on it. |
| 16:21.31 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:23.30 | Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer: i waited for led to dim, then tried flashing, it falied and i used -Owait-charging as it suggested |
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| 16:30.17 | mtd | anyone know if it's OK to change the tracker db from python/sqlite while tracker is running? |
| 16:32.18 | radiofree | mtd: you mean using sparql? |
| 16:33.29 | radiofree | ah, sorry, sqlite - wouldn't know for sure |
| 16:34.52 | mtd | radiofree: sparql would be cool, too. I'm trying to play with the contacts (suggest merges & merge them) since I have tons of dupes |
| 16:35.03 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:35.06 | mtd | radiofree: mbarisione's N900 merge plugin is my inspiration |
| 16:35.25 | radiofree | mtd: http://gitorious.org/+pymaemo-developers/harmattan-python/python-qtsparql |
| 16:35.27 | mtd | radiofree: right now the graph aspects of the tracker db are perplexing me, in case you know of any good sources for that |
| 16:35.35 | mtd | radiofree: thanks, will check it out now |
| 16:38.59 | radiofree | mtd: if you run messaging-ui with TRACKER_VERBOSITY=3 you can see the queries it uses |
| 16:39.11 | radiofree | (in syslog) |
| 16:39.24 | mtd | radiofree: cool, thanks for the tip |
| 16:40.05 | mtd | radiofree: is there a good way to actually do that besides "killall messaging-ui ; TRACKER-VERBOSITY=3 messaging-ui"? |
| 16:40.19 | mtd | radiofree: actually if I run the store with verbosity = 3 I see the queries too, IIRC |
| 16:40.27 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@46-126-187-70.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:41.48 | radiofree | mtd: you can also set it in ~/.config/tracker/tracker-store.cfg |
| 16:43.56 | radiofree | mtd: erm, actually, it's probably more useful for you to do all that on contacts |
| 16:44.09 | mtd | radiofree: yup, that's what I do now. I will look more closely at them. |
| 16:44.26 | mtd | radiofree: sorry, I meant that in reference to the tracker-store.cfg |
| 16:45.05 | mtd | radiofree: thanks for the tips. It's nice that I can watch this all myself, though I still find it hard to see the wood for the trees reading the cpp. |
| 16:45.28 | mtd | (as opposed to the source being closed) |
| 16:45.53 | *** part/#harmattan berndhs (~berndhs@2604:8800:11b:1:21e:90ff:fe8f:8bee) |
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| 16:53.24 | Arkenoi | great! successfully unbricked and even found by data intact! now let's play with sowatch -- my metawatch arrived the same day i bricked the phone :-) |
| 16:54.24 | ab | Arkenoi, that seemed to be my case as well -- it drained the battery to 0% while I attempted to flash |
| 16:54.50 | ab | Arkenoi, once batter was up a bit, everything went fine. Though in my case even bootloader was missing |
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| 16:56.19 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 16:58.52 | DocScrutinizer | hmmpf, seems newer PR versions have a bug in "Birthday" calendar |
| 16:59.05 | rantom | Yep |
| 16:59.32 | rantom | And a temporary fix: https://twitter.com/#!/alblurrow/status/128741511864139776 |
| 16:59.45 | DocScrutinizer | Incredible Nokia is shipping N9 with this bug |
| 16:59.48 | rantom | I've yet to test though, I'll try later probably with the N950 |
| 16:59.54 | rantom | DocScrutinizer: Indeed |
| 17:00.01 | rantom | I remember it working with beta1 |
| 17:00.38 | rantom | frals: Thanks for the link |
| 17:00.51 | DocScrutinizer | birthday calendar and esp notifications of pending birthday events and (missing) markup of birthday dates in calendar month view were worse enough in 22-6 |
| 17:01.25 | DocScrutinizer | seems Nokia thought it was so bad they better remove it completely for later PR X-P |
| 17:01.58 | rantom | :D |
| 17:02.16 | DocScrutinizer | after all who would ever think to use his PDA/smartphone to keep track of firends' birthdays? |
| 17:02.56 | rantom | DocScrutinizer: I googled about it and it turned out to be an issue in another Nokia phone too, I think it was E61? |
| 17:02.59 | DocScrutinizer | shame on you, Nokia QA |
| 17:03.00 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 17:03.00 | Corsac | DocScrutinizer: I quite lack that on n900 I don't get a notification (for example at 12:00 on that day) |
| 17:03.06 | rantom | That post was from 2010 so it's probably fixed by now |
| 17:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hi! |
| 17:03.56 | javispedro | helo |
| 17:04.51 | DocScrutinizer | Corsac: seems my N900 works better than the HARM calendar at least |
| 17:05.30 | DocScrutinizer | at very least I get a notice in my desktop widget there, together with all other pending events |
| 17:05.46 | Corsac | yeah |
| 17:06.03 | Corsac | but I'd appreciate the same notification as the other events |
| 17:06.04 | *** join/#harmattan [XeN] (~XeN]@p5795B42E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:06.04 | DocScrutinizer | ok, no 'alram' - right |
| 17:06.07 | Corsac | an alarm, I mean |
| 17:06.08 | Corsac | yeah |
| 17:06.11 | rantom | DocScrutinizer: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Software-Updates/Contact-birthdays-in-calendar/td-p/155067 it's quite old but there was an issue apparently in 2007 and 2010 too |
| 17:06.53 | DocScrutinizer | somebody must hate birthdays over in Finland |
| 17:07.01 | MohammadAG | javispedro, can you have the FM Radio Qt lib ready when I get my N950? :P |
| 17:07.21 | javispedro | my plan was to try and do it this weekend, as I have some holiday on monday |
| 17:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | WHEN you get... |
| 17:07.36 | MohammadAG | javispedro, no rush |
| 17:07.45 | MohammadAG | when I get my N950 is like, when PR1.4 is out |
| 17:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, no rush. It will get clearance delay for another 3 months ;-P |
| 17:08.13 | javispedro | by PR1.4, aegis will disallow use of X11 by apps |
| 17:08.14 | MohammadAG | I still have hope it'll be delivered on Monday |
| 17:08.21 | MohammadAG | javispedro, N900's PR1.4 :p |
| 17:08.55 | javispedro | who wants to bet which one is more probable? ;P |
| 17:09.55 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: please review johnwil's sms-cb work for compliance with CSSU, comments appreciated |
| 17:11.44 | *** join/#harmattan spenap (~spena@cs27060077.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:13.38 | spenap | pH5, ping? |
| 17:15.17 | pH5 | spenap, hej |
| 17:15.26 | spenap | pH5, about the fast scroll component |
| 17:15.48 | spenap | is it possible to make it anchor in other place than the top of the page? |
| 17:17.36 | pH5 | spenap, yes. the component should be changed to anchors.fill:listView instead of anchors.fill:parent |
| 17:18.13 | vadimq | hmm, what's a good place where to buy a N9? I'm in Spain, and AFAIK it's not sold here |
| 17:18.29 | spenap | vadimq, Portugal? |
| 17:18.33 | spenap | expansys also sells it |
| 17:18.47 | pH5 | and if your Page has margins, set the bottomMargin of whatever is above the listView to the same. |
| 17:19.04 | spenap | pH5, I'm checking it |
| 17:19.13 | vadimq | and to top it off, Nokia closed the online shop. Wow. In freaking 2011, I have to haul my ass to a physical shop |
| 17:19.31 | spenap | yes, pH5, anchoring to fill listView works perfectly :) |
| 17:19.36 | vadimq | spenap: thanks, will check |
| 17:19.48 | SpeedEvil | vadimq: :/ |
| 17:19.53 | pH5 | great |
| 17:20.00 | SpeedEvil | It's deeply annoying when that happens. |
| 17:20.38 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@ip-94-79-139-110.unitymediagroup.de) |
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| 17:27.09 | Arkenoi | is it normal that metawatch does not sync time with the host? |
| 17:28.26 | DocScrutinizer | err you're on tab too low in my chantab list ;-P |
| 17:28.31 | DocScrutinizer | one* |
| 17:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | /join #metawatch :-) |
| 17:29.38 | javispedro | Arkenoi: are you talking about subminute precision, or larger? |
| 17:30.17 | Arkenoi | javis: i just did not set up time on the watch and it shows something completely different |
| 17:30.33 | javispedro | :S |
| 17:30.38 | javispedro | are you using my software, or what do you mean? |
| 17:31.59 | GeneralAntilles | So, you have to completely unmount and disassemble modern microwaves to replace a stupid halogen bulb? |
| 17:32.01 | GeneralAntilles | WTF |
| 17:32.15 | RST38h | mooo javispedro |
| 17:32.16 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 17:32.21 | RST38h | Any QML developers? |
| 17:32.26 | javispedro | helo RST38h |
| 17:32.39 | RST38h | has hit a wall with QML and is considering dropping it |
| 17:32.57 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: actually something I planned to do since ages - disassemble a microwave oven to see what's realy inside |
| 17:33.01 | spenap | RST38h, while you can ask here, I bet you'll have more luck in #qt-qml |
| 17:33.17 | RST38h | nah, I do not want qml ideologues |
| 17:33.21 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, what sort of wall? |
| 17:33.26 | RST38h | I need to solve a specific harmattan related problem |
| 17:33.29 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you'll let the magic fairies out! |
| 17:33.42 | RST38h | General: QML import statement requires you to specify package version |
| 17:33.42 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 17:33.51 | khertan | RST38h: i ve hit several wall with QML and currently trying html5/js |
| 17:33.52 | DocScrutinizer | magic fairies in my flat |
| 17:34.07 | RST38h | General:Out N950 have got Qt.labs.components 1.1, while N9s got 1.0 |
| 17:34.26 | RST38h | General: So, I can either release packages that work on N9s but fail on N950s, or the vice versa |
| 17:34.29 | khertan | RST38h: while qml while are higher, there are most smaller html5 wall |
| 17:35.03 | MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, can't you just put a watercooling pipe in the microwave? |
| 17:35.09 | RST38h | khertan: again, not giving a flying fuck about ideology ofthe whole thing. as far as I am concerned, it should have been QWidgets all along |
| 17:35.13 | khertan | RST38h: you should use only Rectangle, Button, and image .... it s qml |
| 17:35.20 | MohammadAG | replace the water with something that glows when heated |
| 17:35.36 | RST38h | khertan: and what am I supposed to do with rectangle button and image? |
| 17:35.45 | khertan | RST38h: an powerfull application :) |
| 17:35.49 | spenap | lol |
| 17:36.00 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, shouldn't that be fixed with PR1.1? |
| 17:36.10 | RST38h | Doc: They finally started adding PCP to the water supply in Germany? |
| 17:36.15 | khertan | RST38h: make a choice, immature QML, or depecrated and unthemed QWidget :) |
| 17:36.21 | RST38h | General: it got broken by PR 1.1 |
| 17:36.29 | MohammadAG | or best of both worlds MTF |
| 17:36.38 | RST38h | General: Because N9s have not got PR 1.1, they got PR 1.0 |
| 17:36.44 | MohammadAG | QWidget is NOT FUCKING deprecated |
| 17:36.49 | MohammadAG | sorry, but people keep saying it is |
| 17:36.52 | RST38h | khertan: QWidget. |
| 17:36.53 | khertan | MohammadAG: or deprecated mtf without binding :) |
| 17:36.54 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: HAHA good point. Yeah GeneralAntilles why don't you just stick a neon light into the microwave, with 2 stripes of scotchtape? |
| 17:37.03 | RST38h | Mohammad: that is their new marketing pitch |
| 17:37.10 | khertan | MohammadAG: yeah sorry qwidget is unthemed not deprecated :) |
| 17:37.15 | MohammadAG | khertan, no offense, fuck python :p |
| 17:37.27 | khertan | s/without/ without python binding |
| 17:37.28 | Arkenoi | javispedro: yours, is there any other? |
| 17:37.32 | MohammadAG | it's the slowest thing since toasters that made sliced bread good |
| 17:37.40 | Arkenoi | actually looks like it does not communicate at all |
| 17:37.44 | RST38h | MTF does look like the best choice for harmattan development |
| 17:37.49 | Arkenoi | i paired and set up config |
| 17:37.50 | khertan | MohammadAG: yeah ... lol this is because you don't know how to program in python |
| 17:37.54 | khertan | :) |
| 17:37.56 | MohammadAG | not really |
| 17:38.02 | MohammadAG | it's cause I know C/C++ :p |
| 17:38.12 | Arkenoi | then started the app and selected "start service" from the menu |
| 17:38.14 | javispedro | Arkenoi: from what you ware talking I thought you were talking to the watch using the raw protocol or similar =) |
| 17:38.20 | Arkenoi | but looks like nothing happens |
| 17:38.27 | RST38h | decides to give #qt-qml a try, even if for trolling purposes only |
| 17:38.32 | khertan | the concept is do most of thing in libs which are c/c++ libs |
| 17:38.34 | MohammadAG | RST38h, one way is |
| 17:38.35 | javispedro | Arkenoi: you have to write a configuration file |
| 17:38.38 | MohammadAG | provide a C++ plugin |
| 17:38.43 | MohammadAG | if on N9, do this |
| 17:38.46 | MohammadAG | if on N950, do that |
| 17:38.55 | khertan | RST38h: good luck with #qt-qml |
| 17:38.57 | MohammadAG | make it return a bool and import accordingly |
| 17:39.08 | MohammadAG | good luck with #qt* in general |
| 17:39.09 | javispedro | Arkenoi: see https://gitorious.org/sowatch/pages/Home |
| 17:39.11 | RST38h | Asked. Waiting for the fun to begin. |
| 17:39.19 | khertan | RST38h: i'm not sure but 4.8 give conditionnal qml import |
| 17:39.24 | khertan | it s maybe qt5.0 |
| 17:39.26 | khertan | not sure |
| 17:39.33 | MohammadAG | 4.8 is not that big of a change |
| 17:39.49 | khertan | MohammadAG: but there is small improvement on qml |
| 17:40.06 | Arkenoi | javispedro: that's exactly what i did: paried, edited the config and started the app |
| 17:40.28 | javispedro | Arkenoi: so are you sure the MAC on the config file is correct? ;) |
| 17:40.38 | Arkenoi | i still see old watch homescreen with bt address and firmware revision |
| 17:40.44 | RST38h | Actually, I have got an idea |
| 17:40.46 | Arkenoi | yep, double checked it |
| 17:40.46 | khertan | RST38h: are you using only qml ? or does there is a c part ? |
| 17:40.48 | javispedro | Arkenoi: in which case, open a ssh session to the device, run /opt/sowatch/bin/sowatchd and hit me with the log |
| 17:40.51 | RST38h | WHY NOT INCLUDE BOTH PACKAGES? =) |
| 17:41.03 | javispedro | RST38h: that's how I thought it was supposed to be |
| 17:41.12 | khertan | RST38h: can you not write dynamically the import part in qml root object ? |
| 17:41.19 | javispedro | I mean, this entire import package version thing is OBVIOUSLY done to allow including both packages |
| 17:41.22 | Arkenoi | javispedro: as user or as root? |
| 17:41.33 | javispedro | the fact that they didn't smells as a fsck-up |
| 17:41.36 | RST38h | javispedro: bonk. bonk. bonk. |
| 17:41.37 | javispedro | Arkenoi: user is fine |
| 17:41.55 | RST38h | hits his head at the wall |
| 17:42.22 | MohammadAG | whispers seductively, MTF, MTF, MTF |
| 17:42.27 | Arkenoi | javispedro: says it loaded watchlets and everything it fine, but exactly at the moment i ran it watch screen went blank |
| 17:42.44 | javispedro | Arkenoi: you have a digital or analog watch? |
| 17:42.48 | RST38h | Mohammad: WIll have to spend at least a week moving to MTF especially considering that MTF is completely incompatible with QWidgets |
| 17:42.49 | Arkenoi | digital |
| 17:42.58 | javispedro | Arkenoi: is it still blank? |
| 17:43.00 | Arkenoi | iirc analog is unsupported anyway |
| 17:43.07 | MohammadAG | RST38h, what app is this? |
| 17:43.09 | Arkenoi | yes |
| 17:43.13 | javispedro | Arkenoi: oh, send me the log |
| 17:43.16 | RST38h | Ok, #qt-qml is not very helpful |
| 17:43.17 | MohammadAG | moving from QWidget to MTF is piss easy |
| 17:43.18 | Arkenoi | will try to reboot the watch |
| 17:43.21 | RST38h | Mohammad: EMULib |
| 17:43.35 | MohammadAG | RST38h, you have the same underlying code |
| 17:43.41 | MohammadAG | you just need to add the widget code again |
| 17:44.00 | javispedro | RST38h: MTF does have its own shared of weirdness, but I enjoyed the fact that is C++, and I also had a bit of experience with QGraphicsView |
| 17:44.00 | Arkenoi | http://pastebin.com/6xpsrK0L |
| 17:44.04 | RST38h | Mohammad: the whole config ui is in the freaking QML |
| 17:44.11 | Arkenoi | handling 0 watches is suspicious |
| 17:44.14 | RST38h | Mohammad: Have to rewrite all that |
| 17:44.17 | MohammadAG | RST38h, change it to MTF |
| 17:44.20 | khertan | RST38h: http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/qml-how-to-not-crash-if-qtmobility-location-is-not-available/ <<< could interest you |
| 17:44.21 | MohammadAG | tell you what |
| 17:44.26 | MohammadAG | RST38h, point me at the code |
| 17:44.27 | javispedro | Arkenoi: very, can you pastebin the config file? |
| 17:44.28 | RST38h | Mohammad: Furthermore, have to rewrite app startup,event handling, etc |
| 17:44.40 | khertan | RST38h: nice work arround for import if plugin not available in the qml scope |
| 17:44.47 | Arkenoi | javispedro: it is exact copypaste of yours except the mac address |
| 17:44.47 | javispedro | Arkenoi: 0 watches means it didn't even try to connect... no idea why your screen when white. |
| 17:45.00 | Arkenoi | may be just coincidence |
| 17:45.09 | javispedro | Arkenoi: something is wrong, filename is wrong, path is wrong.. |
| 17:45.29 | Arkenoi | ~/.config/sowatch |
| 17:45.32 | javispedro | ~/.config/sowatch/sowatchd.conf |
| 17:46.08 | RST38h | khertan: thanks =) |
| 17:46.15 | khertan | :) |
| 17:46.21 | Arkenoi | ah. i am idiot |
| 17:46.28 | Arkenoi | will fix and try again |
| 17:46.46 | khertan | RST38h: i hope one day i ll found a workarround for syntax hilighting text in qml |
| 17:46.52 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: Arkenoi: concurrent instances running? |
| 17:47.16 | khertan | instead of doing it in qgraphicproxywidget which have many glitches |
| 17:47.23 | DocScrutinizer | ps aux|grep sowa |
| 17:47.46 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: would show something different |
| 17:47.56 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@93-97-163-190.zone5.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:47.56 | *** join/#harmattan leinir (~leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 17:47.58 | Arkenoi | works, great |
| 17:47.58 | javispedro | such as "Unknown bluetooth error" ;P |
| 17:48.31 | javispedro | so screen went white means you are getting out of battery ;P |
| 17:48.37 | javispedro | s/getting/running |
| 17:49.26 | javispedro | note: battery metter you can see by hitting topright button shows _phone_ battery, not watch. |
| 17:50.19 | Arkenoi | hmm |
| 17:50.26 | Arkenoi | is there watch battery meter? |
| 17:50.53 | MohammadAG | javispedro, would be nice if the watch could vibrate on phone app gone crazy |
| 17:50.58 | MohammadAG | another thing |
| 17:51.03 | MohammadAG | does sowatch work on the N900? |
| 17:51.09 | MohammadAG | I need a metawatch :/ |
| 17:51.16 | javispedro | MohammadAG: with Qt Mob 1.2, it could work |
| 17:51.23 | javispedro | achipa was porting qtm 1.2... |
| 17:51.44 | javispedro | of course, one would need to write a way to get notifications on the n950.. |
| 17:51.47 | javispedro | *n900 |
| 17:52.23 | MohammadAG | we have that |
| 17:52.38 | javispedro | Arkenoi: currently, there's an ugly way which goes like a) disable/kill sowatch b) hit topleft button c) read battery voltage on screen and do the math d ) restart sowatch |
| 17:52.39 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure I should buy the metawatch just because of my recent lost N950 issue |
| 17:52.50 | MohammadAG | wonder if shops sell this thing |
| 17:52.55 | javispedro | you'd do better to solve the n950 thing first.. |
| 17:53.08 | MohammadAG | I can't do anything except wait till Sunday |
| 17:53.37 | Arkenoi | javispedro: what is "proper" voltage for it? |
| 17:53.40 | MohammadAG | but I don't feel like doing the same thing for the watch |
| 17:53.42 | javispedro | MohammadAG: and by the way, my commiserations |
| 17:54.04 | MohammadAG | your ammunition may be more useful :P |
| 17:54.27 | javispedro | Arkenoi: around 4.1v charged, around 3.5 it cuts off bluetooth |
| 17:56.44 | RST38h | Ok, including BOTH packages |
| 17:57.18 | javispedro | MohammadAG: I'd send you my tazer, but then they'd "lose" it |
| 17:59.10 | RST38h | javispedro: send him 5kg of flour in an arabic-marked package |
| 17:59.58 | RST38h | just to be sure, make several holes in the package with a needle |
| 18:00.30 | MohammadAG | javispedro, send a vibrator, I'd like to see them lose that somewhere |
| 18:00.43 | RST38h | They WILL |
| 18:02.39 | Arkenoi | javispedro: quite strange, shows 4.199 but goes off sponaneously after being disconnected from the clip :-( may be i got a faulty one :-( |
| 18:02.55 | javispedro | Arkenoi: :( |
| 18:03.01 | javispedro | Arkenoi: have you tried reflashing it? |
| 18:03.04 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD286B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:03.37 | Arkenoi | not yet |
| 18:11.07 | *** join/#harmattan TSCHAKeee (~TSCHAKeee@173.9.2.181-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:15.43 | Arkenoi | ah. i think the reason was clip contact was poor, and 4.199 was to mean value while plugged in to charger |
| 18:17.19 | javispedro | that's not the case, usually. |
| 18:18.54 | *** join/#harmattan pH5 (~ircchatte@brsg-4dbb114e.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 18:25.32 | *** join/#harmattan ajalkane (~arto@a88-115-212-112.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:26.48 | ajalkane | Hi... can't register as a publisher to Nokia Store. That's annoying. Anyone have that working in recent days? |
| 18:27.07 | ajalkane | Getting "The website encountered an error while retrieving https://publish.ovi.com/register/approve_payment_terms. It may be down for maintenance or configured incorrectly." |
| 18:27.39 | RST38h | sighs at Android |
| 18:27.49 | RST38h | On the other hand, it is less of a clusterfuck than QML. |
| 18:28.08 | MohammadAG | shouts MTF |
| 18:28.09 | flux | has someone packaged rsync for n9(50)? |
| 18:28.16 | MohammadAG | probably, on rzr's repo |
| 18:28.24 | flux | which would be.. ? |
| 18:28.42 | MohammadAG | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4218 |
| 18:29.01 | flux | thank you. |
| 18:30.29 | RST38h | The Guardian: HP shutdown of webOS division said to be 'imminent' |
| 18:30.55 | RST38h | javispedro: and to add insult to the injury, they are experimenting with Win8 on the same WebOS tablet hw |
| 18:31.00 | *** join/#harmattan Arkenoi (~ark@178.177.73.237) |
| 18:31.01 | ajalkane | Good thing Ari Jaaksi continued WebOS development full steam ahead |
| 18:31.13 | RST38h | Where is he now? |
| 18:31.14 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@dslb-088-065-177-150.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:31.27 | ajalkane | I think his steam has not ran out yet |
| 18:31.30 | flux | interestingly its version of rsync depends on base-files (>= 4.0.1) but 3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso45+0m6 is to be installed |
| 18:31.45 | flux | so I guess those are compiled for n950 |
| 18:31.54 | ajalkane | checks Jaaksi's last twitter update |
| 18:31.59 | flux | I sort of doubt that kind of depedency reaaaally exists in rsync |
| 18:32.25 | flux | (hm, maybe its daemon support needs to do something for that, then) |
| 18:34.02 | ieatlint | wonders if we'll ever see nfc fully working on the n9 |
| 18:34.10 | flux | well, it was worth the try |
| 18:34.16 | flux | infobot, how does it not work fully? |
| 18:34.45 | flux | (ieatlint :)) |
| 18:34.59 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 18:35.22 | ieatlint | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/connectivity-api.html#known-issues-and-limitations |
| 18:35.34 | ieatlint | specifically the NFC subsection |
| 18:35.45 | RST38h | javispedro: "The Guardian: HP shutdown of webOS division said to be 'imminent'" |
| 18:36.09 | ieatlint | no tag type specific action significantly reduces what can be done |
| 18:36.18 | javispedro | RST38h: was all written in stone since the apothecalypse |
| 18:36.52 | RST38h | javispedro:and I guess they are not open sourcing it. a valuable asset like that cannot be open sourced, better squander it |
| 18:36.56 | flux | ieatlint, hey, at least we get the magic levels for angry birds! |
| 18:38.46 | ieatlint | yeah, basic llcp works alright |
| 18:39.19 | ieatlint | but it's slower to initiate a connection than symbian, and with tag read/write, it's slow and unintuitive |
| 18:39.26 | javispedro | RST38h: considering they have already "scorched" the tablet market for a while with the $100 touchpad, I really don't see why they couldn't opensource it. |
| 18:39.40 | javispedro | but of course, not gonna happen. |
| 18:40.01 | javispedro | that's the final destination of icd2 and some of the other components of maemo. nearest garbage can. |
| 18:40.07 | javispedro | sighs. |
| 18:40.17 | ieatlint | hold a tag up, it vibrates, plays a jingle and shows a blue ribbon to say it was read -- but for application access, that means the read/write operation just begain, not ended, so if you remove the tag then, the read/write fails |
| 18:41.52 | RST38h | javispedro: That is because you think like an engineer, not like a manager =) |
| 18:42.23 | javispedro | hey, I appreciate the compliment :) |
| 18:43.03 | ieatlint | they might not be able to opensource it |
| 18:43.15 | ieatlint | it runs a propriatery commercial version of qt, for instance |
| 18:43.39 | RST38h | still wonder where Ari Jaaksi is. Is he off to RiM now? =) |
| 18:43.49 | javispedro | ieatlint: totally a roadblock |
| 18:44.21 | javispedro | you might want to argue that it is like scorching the earth if they ever want to enter the market again, or similar stuff... |
| 18:44.37 | ieatlint | it is when it suddenly becomes a licencing discussion, and requires engineers to rework things to make it releasable |
| 18:45.00 | ieatlint | suddenly it's pushing more money into a project that you've already killed off with no returns to shareholders for releasing it |
| 18:45.14 | RST38h | javispedro: I doubt the word "want" is applicable to their current management |
| 18:45.50 | ieatlint | but yeah, i have a $150 touchpad courtesy of hp here :) |
| 18:45.54 | RST38h | javispedro: "likely to", "forced to", "might" are all better choices |
| 18:45.59 | javispedro | noone is saying to build a "complete product" |
| 18:46.17 | ieatlint | it's as slow as they say, but it has a couple swiping gestures reminiscent of meego |
| 18:47.04 | javispedro | but there's a shitload of stuff that's fully developing inhouse, that's even already cleanup for public scrunity (e.g. because it was supposed to be a public API), and it's going to the dump. |
| 18:47.11 | javispedro | *developed |
| 18:47.13 | RST38h | once again sadly notes that he world needs gnome for mobiles |
| 18:47.42 | RST38h | and ubuntu for mobiles too |
| 18:48.21 | javispedro | RST38h: did you pust gnome in a good light? |
| 18:48.34 | javispedro | you must be in certain good mood! ;P |
| 18:49.26 | ieatlint | and solaris with twm for mobiles |
| 18:50.00 | RST38h | javispedro: I mean, Gnome before gnomes went bonkers |
| 18:51.00 | RST38h | javispedro: i.e. something intuitive and pleasant to use as opposed to their puny attempts to copy Hildon Desktop on 24"+ screens |
| 18:51.23 | SpeedEvil | I've come up with a theory. |
| 18:51.42 | SpeedEvil | The latest developments in UI design are all because the leaders of UI projects of old are going blind. |
| 18:51.48 | SpeedEvil | And needing bigger fonts. |
| 18:51.57 | SpeedEvil | They're also shaky, so can't hit little buttons. |
| 18:51.59 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: GOOOOD guess |
| 18:52.15 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: and senile two,can't handle more than one window at a time |
| 18:52.33 | GeneralAntilles | Death to the Boomers |
| 18:52.42 | javispedro | and with reduced mouse precision and/or agility |
| 18:52.47 | RST38h | hence the switch from desktop metaphor to the huge task switcher |
| 18:52.49 | javispedro | otherwise can't explain the giant margins |
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| 18:54.03 | SpeedEvil | Stiff necks - can't move up and down -> widescreen |
| 18:57.12 | GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, time to write your thesis |
| 18:58.12 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: Ok I have got a question |
| 18:58.42 | RST38h | SpeedEvil: In terms of your aging theory, how do you explain their idea of moving from Gnome Desktop to Gnome OS? |
| 18:59.08 | SpeedEvil | Large amounts of LSD. |
| 18:59.38 | javispedro | RST38h: Blame lennart. |
| 19:00.11 | RST38h | javispedro: But of course |
| 19:00.39 | RST38h | javispedro: Pretty much the only reason for this thing I could find online is his systemd becoming Gnome's dependancy |
| 19:01.45 | javispedro | Either way, not that I am much worried, I've already made my first xfce4 panel applet, to be used as soon as gentoo pushes me gnome3. |
| 19:02.38 | javispedro | it was also way easier than the way gnome did it... which is best described as "you are not going to understand it, just copy the boilerplate". |
| 19:04.21 | RST38h | OMG |
| 19:05.00 | javispedro | I love how they talk about the customization features of gnome-shell, than you can even write plugins in javascript... but if you want to do something that actually changes something functionally instead of recoloring things, like, say, a global menu bar, ... |
| 19:05.07 | RST38h | javispedro: Well, C++ is another object of their mysterious hate, somewhere between users and Linus Torvalds |
| 19:05.11 | *** join/#harmattan rcg2 (~rc@e180221193.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:06.31 | javispedro | RST38h: there are enough reasons to hate C++, so I won't argue with that... |
| 19:08.14 | RST38h | javispedro: not when you compare it to GObject model though... |
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| 19:18.35 | javispedro | I've been pondering learning perl as of late. |
| 19:20.21 | *** join/#harmattan druid23 (~druid23@46-126-187-70.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:21.05 | *** join/#harmattan KaziKluBey (KaziKluBey@c-83-233-222-176.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 19:21.10 | RST38h | javispedro: Latest research (by British scientists (tm)) has shown that PERL is about as efficient to program in as a language with random syntax. |
| 19:22.17 | ajalkane | Ruby is a bit like Perl but with sensible syntax. I had to learn Perl for work, and Ruby I learned for fun. It has the better aspects of Perl with good OO syntax. |
| 19:22.32 | javispedro | thing is that I made a small parsing script in Perl in about a few minutes despite having to look it up whether it was "print" or "echo" |
| 19:22.53 | javispedro | less time it would have taken me to look up the name of the regular expressions module in python =) |
| 19:23.07 | ajalkane | Perl is really good for few line scripts just like that |
| 19:23.54 | SpeedEvil | loves awk. |
| 19:24.10 | ajalkane | I was just about to say that with Perl you can forget about awk :) |
| 19:24.12 | RST38h | wait until you find about // =) |
| 19:24.58 | M4rtinK | what about Python ? :) |
| 19:25.19 | ajalkane | If you know perl then you don't have to know awk and sed. Although I still prefer sed for some things. But those things would be easily doable with perl too. |
| 19:25.46 | javispedro | (anecdote: I made my original remark about wanting to learn perl because I was writing a sed snippet) |
| 19:26.19 | ajalkane | Python is nice... Ruby and Python are IMO equally good for a bit larget programs. I just like Ruby more, something about Python rubs me the wrong way. |
| 19:27.21 | javispedro | btb |
| 19:27.23 | javispedro | *brb :P |
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| 19:32.23 | RST38h | Meanwhile: TSA has always intended to expand beyond the confines of airport terminals. Its agents have been conducting more and more surprise groping sessions for women, children and the elderly in locations that have nothing to do with aviation. |
| 19:32.58 | RST38h | Federally approved pedobears galore. |
| 19:36.07 | Arkenoi | still does not understand why n950 has nfc castrated out |
| 19:40.26 | RST38h | Mghm |
| 19:40.32 | RST38h | "PHABLET" (C)Engadget |
| 19:49.21 | GeneralAntilles | RST38h, clearly they can only be responsible if we give them MOAR POWAR |
| 19:49.31 | ajalkane | Who needs NFC... We have Forever Alone for that. |
| 19:51.55 | ieatlint | i need NFC |
| 19:52.15 | ajalkane | Just use Forever Alone. Bug status: WON'T FIX |
| 19:52.18 | ieatlint | hippies aren't as afraid of cell phone radiation these days, i need to show them my phone produces more kinds |
| 19:54.45 | *** join/#harmattan miroslav (~miroslav@kde/mirko) |
| 19:54.50 | miroslav | Heya |
| 19:55.16 | miroslav | Is this where all the people hang out that got a N9 at the Qt DevDays? :-) |
| 19:55.43 | ieatlint | stabs miroslav with a red dot |
| 19:56.06 | mgedmin | sniper! duck! |
| 19:56.50 | miroslav | urgh |
| 19:56.57 | miroslav | is dead :-| |
| 19:57.11 | mgedmin | quick, grab his N9! |
| 19:57.20 | miroslav | Dammit, where is it? |
| 19:57.35 | mgedmin | already got one, at the Vienna Hackathon |
| 19:58.05 | miroslav | Yo. I have a question. I have a N9 and a N950, and I cannot enable developer mode on any of them |
| 19:58.27 | ieatlint | what happens when you try? |
| 19:58.55 | miroslav | It asks to download packages, then for additional dependencies, which I confirm. I then get "Can't complete the download… Try again?" |
| 19:59.10 | miroslav | Got the same on 3g network and on WiFi. Internet is working otherwise. |
| 20:00.00 | miroslav | Any ideas? |
| 20:00.23 | jabis | with 950 that shouldn't be a prob as you can download the package using terminal (or so I heard) but with N9 it's useless since the devmode installs terminal & sshd |
| 20:00.43 | svuorela | if(miroslav) { fail_install(); } |
| 20:00.58 | petteri | nokia's server are not reachable for some reason (down or not available at your location (syria)) |
| 20:01.02 | miroslav | svuorela: No shit :-) |
| 20:01.16 | miroslav | petteri: I am in Germany, |
| 20:01.44 | miroslav | jabis: Of course the N950 does not have Terminal installed, since it came with the final software. |
| 20:03.10 | jabis | I thought that terminal was preinstalled in 950 and you only needed to enable developer-mode in N9 for it - gee - I really shouldda gotten one -.- |
| 20:03.23 | ajalkane | miroslav: I had the same issue on N950 when trying to install the individual modules. But did you manage to activate the developer mode? |
| 20:03.28 | miroslav | jabis: That was the case until the latest software version. |
| 20:03.40 | ajalkane | After activating developer mode I had to try hitting Install many times before it started working |
| 20:03.45 | miroslav | ajalkane: No, that is the problem. It always goes back to where it was before. |
| 20:04.44 | ajalkane | Maybe it's the same problem. How long have you tried? |
| 20:04.58 | ajalkane | Try doing it again and again in the span of couple of days :) |
| 20:05.09 | ajalkane | Then contact nokia support if it still doesn't work |
| 20:05.27 | miroslav | ok |
| 20:05.38 | jabis | ping the repo with your desktop to see the packet loss of your connection |
| 20:05.41 | miroslav | I will let it retry a million times :-) |
| 20:05.50 | ajalkane | That's the spirit |
| 20:05.58 | ajalkane | Too bad it can't be scripted |
| 20:06.14 | miroslav | What is the repo location? |
| 20:07.43 | miroslav | Also, how can I trigger the OTA update? The phones are running 34-1, that is outdated, correct? |
| 20:08.07 | mgedmin | settings -> manage apps -> update tab at the bottom |
| 20:08.22 | ajalkane | miroslav: Go to Settings -> Applications -> Manage Applications -> Update |
| 20:08.55 | mgedmin | the repository is at https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com |
| 20:08.58 | *** join/#harmattan messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 20:09.13 | mgedmin | (according to apt-cache policy meego-terminal on my n9 anyway) |
| 20:09.13 | miroslav | Hehe, and just this second the N950 suggested a device update :-) |
| 20:09.26 | jabis | downloads.maemo.nokia.com is the server |
| 20:09.36 | jabis | *too late* |
| 20:09.40 | mgedmin | the one-click flasher is at http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ |
| 20:09.52 | mgedmin | in case OTA fails to work (like it did on my n950) |
| 20:10.07 | miroslav | Ok, thanks. |
| 20:10.11 | miroslav | The N950 is updating now. |
| 20:10.16 | jabis | remember that N9 doesn't have anything to flash against (at least yet) |
| 20:10.24 | jabis | *re-flash* |
| 20:10.53 | jabis | so if you brick it - you'll have a waiting game at hand |
| 20:12.06 | miroslav | Ok, cross your fingers :-) |
| 20:12.07 | miroslav | BIAB |
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| 20:13.55 | jabis | them bravehearts :D |
| 20:14.40 | ajalkane | I read that there's a flasher for N9 using navifirm. I know nothing about that so no more comments about it |
| 20:15.20 | jabis | there's a 34-1 image there, but try to flash an older one -.- |
| 20:15.46 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 20:15.52 | RST38h | solved the problem |
| 20:20.38 | jabis | RST38h: which prob? |
| 20:23.05 | ab | Arkenoi, the NFC chip was not ready by the time N950 hw was fixed in stone, maybe? |
| 20:24.46 | miroslav | Interesting, "https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/" give me an "Access Denied", that might explain why enabling developer mode failed. But why the error? |
| 20:25.24 | petteri | i get also access denied |
| 20:25.35 | jabis | PING downloads.maemo.nokia.com (2.21.195.200): 56 data bytes |
| 20:25.36 | jabis | 64 bytes from 2.21.195.200: seq=0 ttl=57 time=203.124 ms |
| 20:25.42 | ajalkane | Access deniee |
| 20:25.50 | ajalkane | d as far as I understand is normal |
| 20:25.52 | miroslav | Should that work, or are the devices connecting differently than a regular web browser? |
| 20:25.58 | ajalkane | it doesn't allow normal http browsing |
| 20:26.08 | jabis | I said PING it :) |
| 20:26.29 | miroslav | I see |
| 20:26.37 | jabis | open up cmd/terminal and type "ping downloads.maemo.nokia.com" without quotes ofc |
| 20:26.56 | miroslav | Yo, that works. |
| 20:27.13 | frals | you need user/pass to access it afaik |
| 20:27.30 | miroslav | MeeGo Update working, it is at 2% now. Holding my breath. |
| 20:27.42 | jabis | the time is of an essence here - if it takes too long to get a grasp of the server N9 surely gives up in due manner |
| 20:27.46 | ieatlint | i bet the issue will be fixed after the update |
| 20:27.56 | ajalkane | miroslav: I don't recommend holding your breath. You'll die before it's finished. |
| 20:28.00 | ieatlint | perhaps the dev mode packages for 34-1 were deprecated and removed from the server? |
| 20:28.26 | jabis | most certainly didn't - just opened up one N9 today for developer mode |
| 20:28.55 | ieatlint | the n9 is on a different software branch and may be hitting different versions |
| 20:29.45 | jabis | miro has both 950 and the niner and both refuse it |
| 20:30.21 | ieatlint | they probably just decided that people who got their phones at dev days didn't need it |
| 20:30.32 | miroslav | I will retry when the N950 finished updating. |
| 20:30.40 | miroslav | They where both outdated. |
| 20:30.48 | miroslav | 8% |
| 20:31.42 | ieatlint | important off-topic note: canned air is flammable |
| 20:31.43 | jabis | were there a one-click flasher and proper fw for N9 I wouldda started experimenting already -.- |
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| 20:37.52 | miroslav | The 39-5 image is the one that is not yet released for the N9, correct? |
| 20:40.09 | jabis | 34.1 is the one and only for N9 |
| 20:40.20 | jabis | N9 lacks a lot of love |
| 20:42.45 | miroslav | keels over and snaps for air. |
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| 21:01.11 | ajalkane | uh... is there some sort of secret handshake that has to be done before gitorious accepts pushes to newly created repositories? |
| 21:02.22 | ieatlint | git init? |
| 21:02.27 | ajalkane | I used QtCreator to do the local repo, then gitorious www interface to create a repo there. Then tried git remoteadd origin git@gitorious.org:myproject/repository.git |
| 21:02.46 | ajalkane | ouch sorry I meant tried git remote push origin master |
| 21:03.00 | ajalkane | ieatlint: as far as I understand QtCreator did the init |
| 21:03.10 | ajalkane | at least there's the .git directory with all sorts of stuff |
| 21:03.21 | ajalkane | I get == Gitorious: ========================================================== |
| 21:03.24 | ajalkane | Access denied or wrong repository path |
| 21:03.27 | ajalkane | ======================================================================== |
| 21:04.39 | ajalkane | Sometimes it feels a lot of hassle to be an open source developer :) |
| 21:04.50 | javispedro | you don't have to use gitorious you know ;P |
| 21:05.15 | ajalkane | javispedro: I know... just thought it would be nice, it being the most "open" of these git repos |
| 21:06.20 | ieatlint | did you add the remote origin on it? |
| 21:06.38 | ajalkane | ieatlint: yeah, according to gitorious' FAQ into .git/config |
| 21:07.01 | ajalkane | basically copy-pasted and changed project to my own project |
| 21:07.14 | ieatlint | you generally use git remote |
| 21:07.15 | ajalkane | I'm not too well-versed with git |
| 21:07.31 | *** join/#harmattan niqt (~quassel@host167-156-dynamic.56-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:07.45 | ajalkane | okay... I'll try with that. Revoke my changes, and try with git remote. |
| 21:07.57 | ieatlint | try a gui here :P |
| 21:08.08 | *** join/#harmattan lardman (~simon@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman) |
| 21:08.13 | ajalkane | what's a good gui for that in Linux? |
| 21:08.55 | ieatlint | i don't have a good suggestion :( |
| 21:09.21 | ajalkane | Using git remote add origin git@gitorious.org:project/repository.git |
| 21:09.24 | ajalkane | gave the same error |
| 21:10.11 | ajalkane | I'm kinda suspecting that /repository.git doesn't exist. But I'd think it's in gitorious end |
| 21:12.16 | ajalkane | I'm looking at my project page, and it doesn't have the usual buttons like "Clone repository", "Source tree" etc. Just "Activities" |
| 21:12.34 | ajalkane | I think I'm missing something really basic |
| 21:14.44 | *** join/#harmattan _MeeGoBot_ (meegobot@hal9000.afthd.hg.tu-darmstadt.de) |
| 21:14.44 | *** mode/#harmattan [+v _MeeGoBot_] by ChanServ |
| 21:14.57 | ajalkane | This kinda sucks. I'm schooling the baby for night sleeping without his mother, trying to drink beer, and having gitorious being a bitch at me. |
| 21:15.50 | ajalkane | Maybe I'll try taking my "business" to github |
| 21:15.57 | *** join/#harmattan [XeN] (~XeN]@p5795B42E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:17.47 | ajalkane | Wow... GitHub's instructions are like... "Welcome, idiot. Here's some pictures and verbose blabbering about how to do it". I like it! |
| 21:28.33 | SpeedEvil | looks up the safe units of alcohol per week for babies. |
| 21:29.05 | ieatlint | they underestimate that shit, just assume 20 is safe |
| 21:30.23 | ajalkane | Okay, it immediately worked with github. I guess gitorious just sucks. |
| 21:30.57 | ieatlint | well, it is opensource |
| 21:31.22 | ajalkane | I take it back... maybe QtCreator just sucks doing git init. It could be that too. |
| 21:31.31 | ajalkane | To think about it, that's more likely |
| 21:31.42 | ieatlint | well, it is opensource |
| 21:32.01 | ajalkane | God bless opensource. |
| 21:32.07 | ajalkane | Now I can fix it |
| 21:32.11 | jabis | if it worked with github with the same repo - it couldn't be QtCreator x) |
| 21:33.09 | ajalkane | jabis: I don't know, because I started over with github... ie. I did git init from command-line, with gitorious I did it the initialization from QtCreator. So it could be QtCreator did some weird stuff. |
| 21:33.38 | ieatlint | i've never liked the qtcreator git integration |
| 21:34.07 | ajalkane | ieatlint: So far I'm not really sure what's the integration. I can't even see where's "add file to git" |
| 21:34.22 | ieatlint | when you add a file to the project it will ask |
| 21:34.30 | ajalkane | That sucks |
| 21:34.34 | ieatlint | saving files updates them in git as i recall |
| 21:34.50 | jabis | I always use just command-line when gitting - so much less greavances |
| 21:34.57 | ieatlint | it comes off more like autosave with version history |
| 21:34.57 | ajalkane | Most of the time I'm copying some existing file, not using QtCreator's magical new file wizards |
| 21:35.46 | ieatlint | if i used it on a distributed project with random commits and no messages, i suspect my coworkers would be rather angry |
| 21:36.22 | ajalkane | That sounds like broken versioning |
| 21:36.39 | ajalkane | Does it auto detect that I have .git folder that or can I turn that kind of shit off? |
| 21:36.49 | ajalkane | *that -> there |
| 21:36.49 | ieatlint | yes, to both |
| 21:37.05 | ajalkane | you remember where's the off switch? |
| 21:37.42 | ajalkane | I see in Settings -> Git "Prompt on submit". No idea what's that about. |
| 21:37.48 | ieatlint | no, not as such |
| 21:37.50 | jabis | a few comedians in a team I lead, seem to think it's ok to only commit upon minor version changes -.- |
| 21:38.42 | ieatlint | i myself will do single line commits with messages like "felt a blank new line was prudent to add here", following by a 200 line commit with "made some changes" commit log |
| 21:39.00 | ajalkane | Well, I gots me code in some sort of repository. It's not gitorious as I dreamt in my high-fidelity dreams, but at least its somewhere. Now if only Ovi Store would work with new publishers. Ovi sucks. |
| 21:39.12 | ieatlint | i also like to keep changes saved up, and just before my coworkers are about to push, i beat them |
| 21:39.51 | ajalkane | I like to snicker in a cryptic commit just before I go on holiday, that breaks the system. Fun times. |
| 21:40.20 | ajalkane | Okay... I only do that by accident. But fun times nevertheless. |
| 21:40.42 | ieatlint | you must like having your holiday interrupted with an urgent phone call then |
| 21:41.07 | ajalkane | I rarely answer work related calls on my holiday. It's my time. |
| 21:41.50 | ajalkane | Nah, who am I kidding. Of course I often answer them. |
| 21:42.03 | ieatlint | yeah, i signed my life away |
| 21:42.13 | ieatlint | in exchange i get a free company branded shirt and coffee mug each year |
| 21:42.22 | ajalkane | I mean, I'm yelling at the kids, or listening at yelling from the phone. I choose the phone. |
| 21:42.34 | ieatlint | oh, they gave me a company branded 2gb usb flash drive too |
| 21:42.54 | ajalkane | Cool. I'm getting a damn shirt this christmas. Happy days. |
| 21:43.06 | ieatlint | embarrass your kids, make them use symbian phones |
| 21:43.09 | ajalkane | Oh... shit... I forgot to order it |
| 21:43.45 | ajalkane | The kid that understand anything about electronics is already fixated to my MeeGo phone. I don't think a Symbian will do anymore. |
| 21:45.20 | ajalkane | There's been a couple of times when he's found the N950 from somewhere, and comes to me saying "look how strong I am" carrying the phone. I'm always terrified. |
| 21:46.26 | GeneralAntilles | Why is Harmattan always demanding I pick a connection? |
| 21:46.35 | GeneralAntilles | My previous Maemo devices handled that just fine on their own. |
| 21:49.35 | javispedro | you mean, when there's a connection available? |
| 21:49.38 | javispedro | or when there's not? |
| 21:51.02 | GeneralAntilles | When there's not |
| 21:51.07 | GeneralAntilles | Well |
| 21:51.11 | GeneralAntilles | When I'm transitioning. |
| 21:51.23 | javispedro | so there is =) |
| 21:51.34 | GeneralAntilles | I want "If you can't find a known WiFi to connect to, just use the damn 3G" |
| 21:51.55 | GeneralAntilles | I don't want it throwing connection lists at me unless I specifically ask for one. |
| 21:52.04 | GeneralAntilles | So, there's always a connection available in the form of cellular data |
| 21:52.12 | GeneralAntilles | but it throws a list when it loses its WiFi. |
| 21:52.20 | javispedro | heh |
| 21:52.24 | javispedro | I'm sadly too used to the pick-a-connection dialog appearing every so often, as I don't have a data contract yet. |
| 21:52.40 | javispedro | but here's something fun to try |
| 21:52.48 | javispedro | open the twitter app when there's no data connection |
| 21:52.59 | javispedro | try to get out of the loop in less than five minutes without resorting to the power button. |
| 21:53.05 | GeneralAntilles | lol |
| 21:53.22 | javispedro | it spawns pick-a-connection dialogs so fast there's no way to swipe out of it |
| 21:53.42 | javispedro | so you can't close the twitter app, so it keeps spamming connection dialogs. |
| 21:53.47 | ajalkane | GeneralAntilles: Settings -> Internet Connection -> Edit networks -> [Select your provider] -> Use automatically |
| 21:54.03 | GeneralAntilles | ajalkane, yes, it's turned on |
| 21:54.10 | GeneralAntilles | Thus my complaint about it not behaving correctly. |
| 21:54.24 | ajalkane | GeneralAntilles: I guess it's a bug then. It worked in beta1 at least correctly |
| 21:54.41 | ajalkane | I haven't tried it on the latest firmwares. But will do now since it's been bugging me for a while |
| 21:54.48 | messerting | Anyone knows if mBarcode (Maemo/N900) has been ported to Harmattan (N9)? |
| 21:56.01 | ajalkane | messerting: as far as I know not yet, but I've seen such chitter-chatter on this channel that I think something similar is in works, if not the precise app |
| 22:01.02 | messerting | ajalkane: ok, thanks. I'd love to have a QR code app really soon ;) |
| 22:04.16 | javispedro | OBS is as slow to start as usual. |
| 22:19.25 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@2001:530::216:3cff:fe71:5e1e) |
| 22:28.48 | *** join/#harmattan faenil (4e0d6c8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.108.140) |
| 22:28.51 | faenil | heya people! :P |
| 22:31.44 | ajalkane | Cool, "Nokia tries to escalate that positive effect even more by giving away 25 000 Nokia Lumia 800 phones for developers." |
| 22:32.05 | faenil | ajalkane: yup, no details about that though |
| 22:32.05 | ajalkane | Harmattan got 250 + unspecified number for commercial devs :) |
| 22:32.37 | ajalkane | If I may be so blunt, if they offer it to me, I will refuse it. |
| 22:33.13 | ajalkane | If I were developing software for money, I'd certainly consider and probably even take it, but as I'm doing it on my freetime for fun, I will not waste time on Windows |
| 22:36.09 | faenil | ;) |
| 22:36.15 | faenil | good night people :) |
| 22:36.27 | jabis | I'm not too enthused either - we're considering a company strategy on starting serious mobile development with an ERP system integrated tightly with microsoft |
| 22:36.47 | jabis | so I might be "forced" to consider it x) |
| 22:37.51 | ajalkane | Oh, I'm doing anything they want at work, that's what they pay me. Doing stuff on ESB's is not much fun either, but if it's my freetime then I'm not doing ESBs or WP7s :) |
| 22:43.04 | ajalkane | gone sleeping |
| 22:44.50 | Frye | oh my head hurts, all day iPhone stuff and no time for my own N9 :-( |
| 23:25.03 | *** join/#harmattan MohammadAG (~MohammadA@Maemo/community/contributor/MohammadAG) |
| 23:29.04 | MohammadAG | Soundhound is an epic app |
| 23:29.15 | MohammadAG | wish they'd expose an API or make a MeeGo version :/ |
