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| 01:02.04 | Mek | hmm, great, if you run out of diskspace while installing packages (at least in scratchbox) aegis truncates it restok.conf file, making it impossible to install or remove any packages afterwards... |
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| 01:48.16 | Sazpaimon | what's the bpp of the N9, 16 or 32 |
| 01:48.28 | Sazpaimon | i think someone told me 16, wanted to make sure |
| 01:52.21 | ieatlint | pretty sure 16 |
| 01:53.28 | ieatlint | might be 24 though, i see conflicting statements |
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| 02:21.17 | npm_ | anybody know why a single app would end up displaying two identical icons in the app-chooser? |
| 02:21.47 | npm | seems like when i updated to use an SVG icon, things broke and i can't figure out why my app shows two icons when installed, and no icons when uninstalled |
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| 03:27.08 | iekku | morning |
| 03:41.17 | berndhs | made a mistake again |
| 03:42.20 | berndhs | work on harmattan stuff after 11 at night, will give me bad dreams |
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| 03:43.22 | meegomy | how i download Real Golf 2011 into n950? |
| 03:44.22 | berndhs | get a golf club and some balls, use N950 for target ? |
| 03:44.40 | berndhs | its likely to cause some damage though, getting the balls inside the phone |
| 03:46.37 | Sazpaimon | ieatlint, if it's 24 bit, then lightspark and possibly gnash can be ported to it |
| 03:47.18 | meegomy | N9 has Real Golf 2011 pre-installed |
| 03:49.53 | iekku | berndhs, :D |
| 03:51.24 | berndhs | at least i have valgrind on the n950 now |
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| 08:34.29 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | so apparently they did lose my N950 |
| 08:35.00 | cityLights | WHAT? WHO? |
| 08:35.12 | cityLights | (hi mohammad , long time - no see) |
| 08:35.13 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | Israeli customs or post office |
| 08:35.20 | cityLights | WTF? |
| 08:35.25 | cityLights | can I help? |
| 08:35.40 | cityLights | I am going to ramle in afew hours |
| 08:35.43 | w00t | MohammadAGRX-51_: i think you need to move countries :P |
| 08:35.43 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | not sure anyone can |
| 08:35.49 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | they said they're looking for it |
| 08:35.49 | cityLights | I can pop by ben gurion |
| 08:35.54 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | which means it's gone |
| 08:36.19 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | Can I go there? |
| 08:36.25 | cityLights | is it in the post or customes? |
| 08:36.37 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | I didn't know the post office was a public part |
| 08:36.45 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | they said it was cleared out of customs |
| 08:36.54 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | but they also said it'll be delivered tomorrow |
| 08:36.55 | cityLights | so th post lost it |
| 08:37.02 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | well, been saying that since sunday |
| 08:37.03 | cityLights | BIG problem |
| 08:37.12 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | why? |
| 08:37.16 | cityLights | I didnt see your lines here |
| 08:37.18 | cityLights | sorry |
| 08:37.20 | cityLights | hmmm |
| 08:37.34 | cityLights | may need to pull some strings in this case |
| 08:37.47 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | Can I argue with them at ben gurion |
| 08:37.49 | cityLights | do you have the tracking number? |
| 08:38.01 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | w00t, yeah... |
| 08:38.08 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | cityLights, yes, no updates since seekot |
| 08:38.15 | cityLights | if its passed customs - its not in ben gurion any longer |
| 08:38.31 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | tracking still says Clearance delay |
| 08:38.40 | cityLights | got a number? |
| 08:38.52 | cityLights | I will some ppl to check for you |
| 08:39.06 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | waybill 6936258346 |
| 08:39.06 | cityLights | but I need a way to spot the package |
| 08:39.18 | cityLights | ok, I will see |
| 08:39.53 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | I can go to ben gurion |
| 08:40.09 | cityLights | this wont help you |
| 08:40.11 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | can I talk to customs there? |
| 08:40.19 | cityLights | yes you can |
| 08:40.28 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | hmm |
| 08:41.10 | cityLights | ok, I goinf back to work |
| 08:41.18 | cityLights | tell me if you need help |
| 08:41.37 | cityLights | they have a proceedure to find lost goods |
| 08:41.49 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | If it's lost I doubt ddp will send another one... |
| 08:42.24 | cityLights | they need a formal form to start investigating lost goods |
| 08:42.30 | cityLights | this is your mission |
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| 09:08.02 | faenil | Goodrmining! |
| 09:08.08 | faenil | oh yeah, mining |
| 09:08.09 | faenil | lol |
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| 09:28.04 | matrixx | codemining :) |
| 09:28.49 | iekku | saltmining! |
| 09:29.00 | iekku | slavery gets work done... |
| 09:29.07 | matrixx | :] |
| 09:29.16 | Anssi138 | ..and pyramids are useful |
| 09:29.21 | faenil | datamining to everyone! lol |
| 09:29.31 | faenil | someone says they were helped by aliens |
| 09:29.39 | faenil | because pyramids are too complex |
| 09:30.04 | Anssi138 | faenil, i saw that movie too ;) |
| 09:30.20 | faenil | I did not see that, a friend of mine told me :D |
| 09:30.21 | iekku | i think they just used subcontractors |
| 09:31.05 | Anssi138 | yep |
| 09:31.06 | GeneralAntilles | "We're not really sure exactly how they did this. So--aliens!" |
| 09:31.26 | RST38h | Cthulhu. |
| 09:32.06 | Anssi138 | they made pyramids and we do great software |
| 09:32.26 | faenil | :) |
| 09:32.52 | RST38h | Who does great software here> |
| 09:32.53 | RST38h | ? |
| 09:34.08 | iekku | o/ |
| 09:34.28 | faenil | o/ |
| 09:36.48 | RST38h | Ok, I guess the rest of us do the normal, usual shit. |
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| 09:37.16 | djszapi | ~seen wazd |
| 09:37.23 | infobot | wazd <~wazd@broadband-95-84-185-178.nationalcablenetworks.ru> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 7d 11h 55m 50s ago, saying: 'Milhouse: easter egg for geeks? :)'. |
| 09:37.37 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 09:39.03 | Wirta | is there a way to force disable autolock? |
| 09:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAGRX-51_: inform DDP |
| 09:43.39 | SpeedEvil | Wirta: place a bananna on the screen. |
| 09:43.42 | DocScrutinizer | keep them CC'd form beginning, and send a "protocol" of each phonecall you did to callee and to them |
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| 09:50.35 | Wirta | Thanks SpeedEvil |
| 09:50.52 | Wirta | had to also include a coconut for it work but that was the right direction |
| 09:51.52 | xarcass | Wirta: do you mean inside an app or system-wide? |
| 09:52.56 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | DocScrutinizer, Imma argue with DHL first |
| 09:53.10 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | I recall the local post office did the same with my first N900 |
| 09:53.24 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | after 4 hours of phone calls they "found" it |
| 09:53.33 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | seems like it's a standard answer for cba to look |
| 09:53.44 | Wirta | I have deleted all accounts (exchange) but it still doesn't allow me to disavle Device lock from settings -> Security -> Device lock |
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| 09:55.12 | MohammadAGRX-51_ | Can I sue for this btw? :P |
| 09:55.14 | xarcass | Wirta: alas, I know nothing about this kind of lock. i've thought that's about the usual lockscreen |
| 09:55.33 | DocScrutinizer | no, but Nokia can |
| 09:55.49 | DocScrutinizer | only if you keep them CC'd |
| 09:56.20 | deram | AFAIK devicelock can be disabled only with the code you have set |
| 09:56.52 | deram | might be disabled with reflash, but haven't tested |
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| 09:57.37 | Wirta | I know the code, and there should be an option in autolock delay settings to disable it fully. This option is no available when exchnage account is in use, but should appear again when exchange account is deleted |
| 09:57.52 | Wirta | For some weird reason this is not the case this time |
| 09:58.46 | xarcass | Wirta: If I were you, I would have written to the Nokia Care |
| 10:00.14 | Wirta | I was just thinkig that maybe someone has managed to disable it trough terminal, there could be some file we can modify / hack |
| 10:03.38 | xarcass | Wirta: there are many mere mortals among N9 users so I suppose it makes sense to report the problem back to Nokia, because not all people are able to use terminal to solve such issues |
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| 10:40.14 | lardman | alterego: ping |
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| 10:56.10 | lardman | anyone know whether QCamera works on the N900? |
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| 11:03.29 | merlin1991 | ffs rekonq crashed the 2nd time trying to dl the harmattan setup py for scratchbox |
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| 11:08.42 | Arkenoi | if the phone does not appear on USB at all, is charging battery externally likely to help? |
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| 11:22.46 | omicron23 | Hi there! I want to start using qml on my new N9. Now I am wondering where I can get a qmlviewer for that device. Can you give me a hint? |
| 11:23.57 | faenil | you mean qmlviewer to run on N9 ? or qmlviewer for desktop ? |
| 11:24.03 | deram | if you create qml-appliation project in SDK, it creates the viewer binary for you automatically |
| 11:24.25 | omicron23 | the qmlviewer for N9.. |
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| 11:27.26 | omicron23 | deram: does the sdk create a standalone qmlviewer which I can then use to view any qml file? Or do you mean it creates an application that has the viewer inside? (like a QApplication containing a QDeclarativeView) |
| 11:27.53 | faenil | that could be a way |
| 11:30.50 | *** part/#harmattan omicron23 (~markus@dslb-088-064-143-139.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:30.51 | deram | omicron23: it creates QApplication with QApplicationDeclarativeViewer in it hardcoded... |
| 11:31.08 | *** join/#harmattan omicron23 (~markus@dslb-088-064-143-139.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:31.13 | deram | omicron23: it creates QApplication with QApplicationDeclarativeViewer in it hardcoded... |
| 11:31.48 | deram | the paths to the qml are set there, so it is not universal viewer, but one for just that project |
| 11:32.15 | omicron23 | deram: Alright, so then I think I will create my own qmlviewer ;-) should be straight forward |
| 11:34.11 | faenil | sure |
| 11:34.15 | deram | I think this type of launcher is used for getting things running the same way in simulator, emulator and real device... also there are references to symbian |
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| 11:57.14 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen konttori |
| 11:57.23 | infobot | konttori <~konttori@net-57.nrpn.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 150d 4h 23m 57s ago, saying: 'genius6'. |
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| 11:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen konttori_work |
| 11:57.29 | infobot | konttori_work <~anonymous@net-14.nrpn.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 56d 3h 29m 53s ago, saying: 'morning'. |
| 11:57.43 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen konttori_home |
| 11:57.43 | infobot | konttori_home <~konttori@85-156-146-239.elisa-mobile.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 117d 14h 25m 44s ago, saying: 'ok, font went in now. Time to go to bed! Night all!'. |
| 11:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen qgil |
| 11:58.45 | infobot | qgil <c0646a28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.106.40> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 29d 13h 12m 12s ago, saying: 'ok, time to leave and join the Qt chapter - Siicon Valley. See you around!'. |
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| 12:03.01 | RST38h | ~seen cthulhu |
| 12:03.02 | infobot | RST38h: i haven't seen 'cthulhu' |
| 12:03.08 | RST38h | hm |
| 12:03.41 | M4rtinK | that's a good sign :) |
| 12:07.21 | jabis | ~seen DocScrutinizer_naked |
| 12:07.22 | infobot | jabis: i haven't seen 'docscrutinizer_naked' |
| 12:07.29 | jabis | a good sign too -.- |
| 12:08.26 | DocScrutinizer | that's just because DocScrutinizer_naked is way too big ;-P |
| 12:08.31 | clbr | is there irc-videochat now? |
| 12:09.54 | jabis | I hope not - since I'm wearing nothing but a bathrobe, and my N9 is hooked up as webcam x) |
| 12:10.19 | SpeedEvil | wants usb-gadget-webcam mode. |
| 12:10.37 | clbr | jabis: fortunately N9 does not have flash |
| 12:11.06 | jabis | yeh -.- |
| 12:11.20 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 12:11.24 | SpeedEvil | Boneheaded decision |
| 12:11.37 | SpeedEvil | Probably not so much a decision as 'we can't spare the people' |
| 12:11.39 | deram | flash is dead |
| 12:11.56 | SpeedEvil | Bullshit. |
| 12:12.04 | clbr | we would need a video url extractor |
| 12:12.07 | SpeedEvil | there re still many, many sites you absolutely need flash to use. |
| 12:12.30 | deram | put flashblock to firefox and see how much it is used besize those pesky ads |
| 12:12.32 | SpeedEvil | And not video playback sites. |
| 12:12.44 | SpeedEvil | For example, sites constructed around flash interfaces. |
| 12:12.59 | jabis | I've used flash only to rid some javascript security-drawbacks, with file uploads and stuff |
| 12:14.20 | clbr | sorry, didn't want to start this discussion ;-) I was only thinking of the camera-spy-flaw patched some days ago |
| 12:14.55 | clbr | i guess there a at least as many flash-needing websites as the ones you need the pointer mode available on the n900 |
| 12:15.09 | clbr | openstreetmap.org e.g. |
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| 12:17.58 | jabis | does N9 have java-support in the browser btw - wondering can our chairman of the board access the company bank account (Sampo Bank - uses java-applets for auth) |
| 12:18.14 | *** join/#harmattan etrunko (~etrunko@32.104.18.240) |
| 12:18.48 | SpeedEvil | jabis: url? |
| 12:19.24 | jabis | SpeedEvil, https://verkkopankki.sampopankki.fi/html/index.html?site=SBNBFI&secsystem=E2 |
| 12:19.44 | SpeedEvil | ah - nvm - I can't type that on the vkbd. :) |
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| 12:22.47 | clbr | oh, didn't know das http://openstreetmap.org/ does work on the N9, nice! but http://opencyclemap.org/ doesn't |
| 12:23.10 | jabis | lol installing java failed on teh desktop x) |
| 12:28.18 | Arkenoi | RST38h: any idea if charging battery might help? |
| 12:28.27 | cos^ | where are the flashers for N9? google fails to find them.. |
| 12:28.48 | cos^ | i can only find the ocf for N950 |
| 12:29.17 | Summeli | jabis: just use the mobile version of the netbank |
| 12:30.06 | Summeli | mobiili.sampopankki.fi |
| 12:31.39 | jabis | Summeli: I don't need to use it, but our chairman of the board - who's really not even remotely a tech person, so I'll prolly need to create 'em bookmarks for her |
| 12:32.49 | Summeli | it's even paint to get sampopankki's java working on desktop linux |
| 12:32.52 | Summeli | pain even |
| 12:33.00 | Summeli | I wouldn't bother with N9 :) |
| 12:34.22 | jabis | SpeedEvil: http://bit.ly/t0YNIl shortened version |
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| 13:00.25 | SpeedEvil | I get a box saying something about java. |
| 13:00.41 | SpeedEvil | (on n950, I believe the browser is identical) |
| 13:02.03 | SpeedEvil | jabis: Can you pm me your username and password, so I can properly test? :) |
| 13:02.05 | jabis | Ladataan java <- loading java which it never loads so no go |
| 13:02.07 | SpeedEvil | More seriously. |
| 13:02.20 | SpeedEvil | It gives the same result on a desktop if I disable java |
| 13:02.43 | jabis | I won't give our company bank account passwords to you for testing :D |
| 13:02.56 | jabis | lol |
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| 13:10.19 | DocScrutinizer | JAVA?? |
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| 13:12.22 | DocScrutinizer | well, a site that neds java to work is either a very nifty site (e.g. http://www.heise.de/netze/artikel/Netalyzr-1045926.html?artikelseite=3) or - usually - just braindamaged |
| 13:12.55 | jabis | well the latter suits for an online banking software selection |
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| 13:13.06 | DocScrutinizer | definitely |
| 13:14.19 | jabis | they lost like 40000 customers upon going live with that selection, because the system didn't work x) |
| 13:15.20 | kimju | just forget the sampo banks java in non x86 environments. it contains native code libraries for x86 and x86/64. and that native code reads for example your mac-address, serial numbers of your harddrives etc and transmit them to the bank. |
| 13:17.24 | jabis | yeh I remembered _something_ like that back when we had some linux powered desktops around the office |
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| 13:51.38 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
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| 14:50.38 | diorahman | is the 39-5 really helps to unbrick any bricked N950? |
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| 14:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | well, yes. Depending on what you did to "brick" it |
| 14:57.39 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: Unfortunately, I just got it from Nokia and it's bricked :-( I could see I couldn't upgrade it to 34-2; I think I need the previous one? |
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| 14:58.10 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: ERROR: Failed to erase MMC using 'secure' method |
| 14:58.36 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: but the 22-6 I guess, is nowhere available |
| 14:58.46 | DocScrutinizer | it is |
| 14:59.27 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: should I bet on 39-5? |
| 14:59.40 | DocScrutinizer | I'd try it, sure |
| 15:00.41 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: ok, downloading it right now, otherwise I should find a nice little box to run linux, since the flasher available on Linux only |
| 15:00.48 | DocScrutinizer | unless you definitely don't want to upgrade to most recent PR, and think you could get the device working with 22-6 or 34-2 |
| 15:01.48 | DocScrutinizer | uh, no clue about flashing from a windoze box |
| 15:02.21 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: could you point out where I can get 22-6? do you have any clues? I'm on mac :-( |
| 15:02.49 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: I really screwed when I accidentally erased it from my disk :-( |
| 15:03.12 | DocScrutinizer | aah on mac. Well I know about linux 22-6, not mac, not win |
| 15:03.30 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 15:04.33 | diorahman | yeah, I wish I could quickly get linux bos |
| 15:04.35 | diorahman | *box |
| 15:08.33 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: BTW, do I really need to upgrade it sequentially? beta-1, beta-2 and this? |
| 15:08.48 | DocScrutinizer | don't think so |
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| 15:09.48 | DocScrutinizer | at least for flashing it should work with Linux_OCF_39-5_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin right away |
| 15:10.04 | rafael2k | people, is the workaroud to load a patched kernel in order to "open" the system working? |
| 15:10.47 | berndhs | the OCF_39-5 seems to have the same problem on Fedora 15 as the previous one |
| 15:11.25 | DocScrutinizer | you don't even need a "patched" kernel - loading an unsigned original kernel will make the device enter open-mode |
| 15:11.51 | rafael2k | great |
| 15:12.04 | DocScrutinizer | well, depends |
| 15:12.05 | rafael2k | any downsides of using a unsigned kernel? |
| 15:12.43 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: well, it seems doesn't work for me at flashing stage on Mac |
| 15:12.45 | DocScrutinizer | yes, HARM userland will blow chunks on several subsystems relying on aegis |
| 15:13.34 | DocScrutinizer | diorahman: sorry to hear that |
| 15:13.41 | rafael2k | how annoying.. |
| 15:14.14 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: Hahaha, thank you -- how difficult to get a working linux box |
| 15:15.21 | npm | heh... a billion dollar prostitute?? http://www.techhog.com/featured/did-nokia-knowingly-name-their-new-windows-phone-lumia-after-a-prostitute/ |
| 15:16.05 | diorahman | DocScrutinizer: dont you think it is the device which has the problem? |
| 15:16.21 | DocScrutinizer | no, probably not |
| 15:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | flashing problems are 99% caused by PC/system or cable/cabling |
| 15:17.45 | DocScrutinizer | generic advice regarding flashing applies |
| 15:17.50 | DocScrutinizer | ~flash |
| 15:17.50 | infobot | methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware |
| 15:18.37 | DocScrutinizer | I.E get rid of conflicting drivers, use no hub, good cable, right USB port... |
| 15:23.55 | npm | has anybody tried flashing from MeeGo 1.2 netbook ? (which is where i usually plug in the n950) |
| 15:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | fsckng blog, doesn't let me post comments - oh well. Anyway, the name just fits for Nokia's first MS phone, no? |
| 15:27.32 | DocScrutinizer | and after all they are pretty much in good company with Pachero (Ford?) and Moko (Openmoko) |
| 15:28.26 | DocScrutinizer | pajero? |
| 15:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | finding a good international name is FSCKNG expensive |
| 15:31.22 | DocScrutinizer | Sony shelled out several mio $, and just one country (korea or sth) caused it to become Sony and not Sonny |
| 15:35.43 | DocScrutinizer | some Nokia sub-departments even have a record for picking such names: NOLO, FIASCO |
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| 15:41.54 | SpeedEvil | Oh come off it. |
| 15:42.00 | SpeedEvil | FIASCO has to be knowing. |
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| 16:07.45 | *** topic/#harmattan is A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73 |
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| 16:33.11 | rafael2k | people, have you realized that N950 uses compressed swap in ram |
| 16:33.37 | rafael2k | 256M of "compressed swap" |
| 16:34.02 | rafael2k | very clever in order to workaroud low ram |
| 16:34.51 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 16:35.00 | SpeedEvil | I was using it back in 1997? |
| 16:35.01 | berndhs | so you take 1/4 of your RAM to compensate for not having much RAM ? |
| 16:35.33 | rafael2k | gzip /dev/ram |
| 16:35.37 | rafael2k | :P |
| 16:36.59 | rafael2k | if I remember correctly, it adds a new layer that (de)compresses the ram blocks before storing/reading them |
| 16:37.51 | rafael2k | btw, can you people point me where to get a kernel that "opens" my N950? |
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| 16:40.07 | SpeedEvil | If you do that, large chunks of harmattan stop working |
| 16:40.19 | SpeedEvil | Aegisfs goes read-only. |
| 16:40.20 | faenil | heya :) |
| 16:40.50 | DocScrutinizer | and aiui the source for most recent kernel got not released yet? |
| 16:41.34 | DocScrutinizer | (if it differs at all from the prev version available) |
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| 16:42.43 | faenil | is there a way to enable landscape in n950? |
| 16:42.49 | faenil | not only in screensaver |
| 16:42.55 | faenil | and which works on 39-5 :D |
| 16:47.08 | rafael2k | SpeedEvil: but simple things like phone calls, messaging, irssi are affected by the lack of aegis? |
| 16:47.40 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it it superficially works. |
| 16:48.00 | SpeedEvil | But, for example, call logs and incoming messages don't/aren't stored. |
| 16:48.45 | rafael2k | fuck |
| 16:48.57 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 16:49.19 | rafael2k | well, so the tactic is, boot "open" kernel, change what I want, rebook using stock nokia kernel... |
| 16:49.25 | SpeedEvil | I need to properly understand the system to see how it might be possible to get round that. |
| 16:49.36 | rafael2k | s/rebook/reboot |
| 16:49.55 | SpeedEvil | Changing stuff without providing the right signature for the altered thing will mean when it goes to run it, it has the wrong signature. |
| 16:49.57 | rafael2k | this night I;ll play with this issue |
| 16:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | as I put it yesterday: you can't get open mode in HARM, you just can "switch to another OS" - if only by loading a non-signed kernel, and then watch HARM userland fall apart |
| 16:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | rafael2k: changing "what you want" may and will cause HARM/aegis to MALF next time you boot to normal mode |
| 16:51.21 | SpeedEvil | saw MALF on n900. |
| 16:51.30 | SpeedEvil | stop dsme |
| 16:53.18 | rafael2k | DocScrutinizer: I'm starting to understand how deep the problem is |
| 16:53.45 | DocScrutinizer | and as aiui aegis is checking hashes based on inode, you basically have no chance other than reflashing to restore things to a working state |
| 16:54.46 | flux | if 'open' mode doesn't work, is there a mode in which aegis works, but you have access to a shell that has access to everything? |
| 16:55.30 | SpeedEvil | Only if you have the appropriate keys from nokia. |
| 16:55.34 | SpeedEvil | (which you can't get) |
| 16:56.26 | flux | hmm, I would expect an aegis-enabled kernel is a subset of open kernel, that is, only stuff that depends on being signed by Nokia dosen't work? (things such as perhaps encrypted (?) nokia store credential stroage) |
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| 16:56.49 | flux | so, one should be able to provide new keys and sign everything with those etc |
| 16:58.11 | jabis | even the nokia store tokens haven't got all credentials ;) |
| 16:59.10 | DocScrutinizer | no, as the keys are stored in a TPM (special storage area aka Fritz Chip) that gets irreversibly shut down on entering open mode, and e.g "crypted" or signed fs (aegisfs) can't get unlocked with a new key when it got secured with a Nokia key that's not available now |
| 17:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | which means you need to implement the whole stuff in a way that'S not linked to TPM but rather to some emu of it, then build all the fs images etc with your own new keys that you store to the TPM emu |
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| 17:01.28 | DocScrutinizer | then still you may run into nokia binaries that aren't just hash-signed but actually encrypted and thus won't ever run on your fake system |
| 17:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | there are no such crypted Nokia binaries known... yet? |
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| 17:02.47 | flux | docscrutinizer, does the flasher erase TPM? |
| 17:02.53 | flux | or rewrite |
| 17:03.08 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 17:03.46 | DocScrutinizer | unless you do that --cert-write thing that's notorious to *permanently* brick your device |
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| 17:04.19 | khertan | should probably forget his try to do a source code editor in qml for Harmattan, and recompile vim with python support ... |
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| 17:12.14 | rafael2k | lwn.net/Articles/373780/ |
| 17:12.21 | rafael2k | <- very interesting article |
| 17:12.50 | rafael2k | and one comment I found very interesting: "this is not my beautiful house" |
| 17:16.14 | khertan | Any javascript expert in the room ? |
| 17:16.35 | khertan | i m trying to understant why virtual keyboard didn't open on some editable text |
| 17:16.45 | khertan | in webkit |
| 17:17.28 | khertan | and while it s working with a n950 and his hardware keyboard, it ll be pretty useless for n9 users :) |
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| 17:18.43 | rzr | http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support |
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| 17:41.37 | ab | DocScrutinizer, one can copy content of aegisfs mounted partitions. Next time they simply might not be mounted and yet everything will continue working if your kernel parts are responding properly to aegis requests. aegisfs is a separate story than aegis verifier |
| 17:44.36 | ab | also, accounts store is not really connected with aegisfs, it is LUKS encrypted with device lock-based master key and SIM card-derived keys that should work even with aegis missing. |
| 17:44.41 | DocScrutinizer | there's exactly one way to get a really "cracked" and open and working HARM: find a liberal xloader that has a signature which allows it to get loaded by bootloader. This liberal xloader may in turn load end execute a hacked NOLO which in turn would load and execute patched kernels, without any of the three ever shutting down TPM. If there is any such xloader out there (maybe N900's?) then Nokia platsec *lost* the game and nothing they |
| 17:44.42 | DocScrutinizer | could "fix", if not (very likely) then there's simply no way to ever get a full working HARM system with user in 100% control of things |
| 17:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | s/bootloader/ROM-bl/ |
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| 18:11.23 | DocScrutinizer | of course there's a egg this chicken came from: the signing app with proper sec-key to sign xloader (or NOLO, or kernel, or...) with a proper signature matching the "pub-key" in TPM |
| 18:13.29 | DocScrutinizer | jacekowski would know more about the details, I for one think *nobody* can change the root cert burnt to the OMAP and used for verifying the xloader |
| 18:14.39 | DocScrutinizer | probably TI does this for Nokia, and I'm just wondering if the pubkey went from Nokia to TI, or the secret key went from TI to Nokia |
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| 18:28.52 | ab | DocScrutinizer, you mean, M-Shield with Nokia's BB5 as an E-Fuse? |
| 18:30.16 | ab | Motorola does similar with Droid X. Of course, their E-Fuse is their own. |
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| 18:33.41 | RST38h | "Halbherr also revealed that he's been pushing Microsoft to integrate NFC and a "positioning framework" to make its mobile OS work better with Nokia's Navteq mapping platform and thereby provide new location-based services." |
| 18:34.00 | RST38h | wp7 has no nfc and positioning support? =) |
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| 18:50.17 | DanielW | hi |
| 18:51.39 | DanielW | if i am able to spend some (not weeks) time on it and am a software developer, what would be the quickest way to have a working icq client on my nokia n9? |
| 18:52.44 | frals | check for telepathy-haze, use mc-tool to add icq account and chat away? |
| 18:53.17 | DanielW | there is already telepathy-haze for harmattan? |
| 18:56.22 | frals | dunno |
| 18:58.07 | frals | seems not, so you would have to compile it |
| 19:00.06 | DanielW | it's based on libpurple which doesn't exist either |
| 19:02.26 | DanielW | and libpurple has a lot of dependencies. |
| 19:02.50 | DanielW | but most of them might be optional |
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| 19:05.52 | DanielW | i read there were plans for a community repository. where can i read details about those plans? |
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| 19:08.06 | dm8tbr | DanielW: it's apps.formeego.org the deployment starts soon |
| 19:09.11 | dm8tbr | DanielW: the fastest way for icq would be to get an xmpp (aka jabber) account and use an ICQ gateway |
| 19:09.16 | dm8tbr | works great for me |
| 19:10.14 | DanielW | well i currently don't know of a public xmpp provider with working icq gateway. i suppose i can set one up for myself somewhere |
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| 19:11.01 | dm8tbr | there isn't? I thought there were a few with icq-transports? |
| 19:11.06 | dm8tbr | (I'm running my own) |
| 19:11.59 | DanielW | well i believe they all get problems when they have lots of icq users |
| 19:12.53 | dm8tbr | but yeah, I'd expect plugging telepathy-haze in there shouldn't be too hard |
| 19:13.05 | dm8tbr | bonus points for doing it on COBS :) |
| 19:13.27 | DanielW | COBS? |
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| 19:17.10 | DanielW | on my n900 i didn't use icq integrated in the normal messaging because it didn't support writing notifications. so i went for pidgin, it was very nice on the n900. a windows for every parallel chat and in the taskswitcher i got a quick overview about who is typing or has something posted. the gtk gui of pidgin wouldn't work very well on the n9 though |
| 19:18.06 | dm8tbr | community OBS |
| 19:18.25 | dm8tbr | it's also the backend for the community apps service |
| 19:18.30 | DanielW | i see. will there be some integration between the cobs and the free repo? |
| 19:19.00 | DocScrutinizer | ab: sorry, I already mentioned jacekowski is the expert. I only know the SoC has a pubkey to hash-verify the xloader. The xloader in turn loads the NOLO 2nd-stage bootloader. N9(50) NOLO first refused to load any non-signed kernel, and now (recent version) tears down the security system aka TPM in SoC when kernel is not correctly signed but still loads and executes it. You can't patch OLO to keep TPM alive as then xloader won't load |
| 19:19.01 | DocScrutinizer | NOLO, and you can't patch xloader as then ROM-bl will blow chunks (or tear down TPM, dunno) |
| 19:19.25 | DocScrutinizer | ab: this is a TI OMAP thing completely unrelated to BB5 |
| 19:20.36 | ab | DocScrutinizer, as I understood, M-Shield relies on OEM-provided chip that stores the keys and in Nokia case this is provided by BB5 system |
| 19:20.45 | DocScrutinizer | it's been there in N900 as well, just N900/fremantle xloader didn't care about NOLO signature, or properly shut down TPM then chainloaded the evidently unsigned fremantle-NOLO |
| 19:20.52 | ab | DocScrutinizer, yes |
| 19:21.18 | DocScrutinizer | M-Shield is a function *inside* OMAP SoC |
| 19:21.30 | DocScrutinizer | for all I understood so far |
| 19:21.53 | Stskeeps | ab has it right, AFAIK |
| 19:22.09 | dm8tbr | DanielW: that's what I'm saying, you'll be able to put your app from COBS into the community 'app store' |
| 19:22.31 | DocScrutinizer | ask jacekowski |
| 19:23.05 | DanielW | dm8tbr: so there are also plans for a gui package manager for that repo? |
| 19:23.26 | dm8tbr | DanielW: AFAIK it already exists, haven't tried it though |
| 19:23.36 | DocScrutinizer | all I know is there's a secure and a non-secure variant of OMAP3xx0 - the secure one is supposed to have TPM |
| 19:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | and the signing thing is even mentioned on OMAPwiki iirc |
| 19:24.33 | ab | true, this always was a case since OMAP2 |
| 19:24.48 | DocScrutinizer | the alien xloader "hack" was how they cracked milestone(?) |
| 19:27.15 | DocScrutinizer | and I even seem to recall details about implementation of signature checking into BOOTROM being mentioned in the OMAP User MAnual |
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| 19:28.21 | DocScrutinizer | allegedly there's even example code how to hash xloader, to build your signing tool |
| 19:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | all this doesn't match well with M-Shield being sth implemented via BB5 |
| 19:29.35 | DocScrutinizer | but - as mentioned - ask somebody who got a bit of a clue of it all, ask jacekowski |
| 19:30.52 | DocScrutinizer | without him I wouldn't even know about existence of xloader |
| 19:31.12 | ab | DocScrutinizer, bb5 has more features than M-Shield provides, but in this specific context all M-Shield does when interacting with bb5 is to fetch public keys from a bb5 subsystem that serves as an E-Fuse to M-Shield internally. That's my understanding. There are more things in bb5, of course. |
| 19:31.17 | DocScrutinizer | (probably ;-D ) |
| 19:32.03 | DocScrutinizer | I got nfc what's an E-Fuse |
| 19:33.01 | ab | http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/ti_mshield_whitepaper.pdf |
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| 19:34.50 | dm8tbr | DocScrutinizer: http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project#Building_Xloader_for_EMU |
| 19:35.19 | dm8tbr | EMU is HS with 'known' key for use in EVMs like blaze or zoom |
| 19:36.19 | DocScrutinizer | dm8tbr: thanks, that's what I was referring to |
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| 19:37.03 | dm8tbr | I'd expect most HS related tools to be NDA though |
| 19:40.16 | dm8tbr | http://omappedia.org/images/5/50/OMAP_Security.pdf |
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| 19:50.47 | DocScrutinizer | actually most are not, it seems. It's not a security-by-obscurity concept, rather they even use u-boot, and as mentioned before I think ROM-BL is well documented by TI as well, it's just you have no chance to intercept/fake the root cert anywhere, and correctly inplemented the chain of trust ensures you're running a non-tampered system |
| 19:52.15 | DocScrutinizer | or got no more access to the root cert as the component breaking chain of trust is supposed to shut down the TPM |
| 19:54.46 | DocScrutinizer | but I know one basic thing for sure: xloader is responsible to initialize very basic things as e.g. RAM, so there's no way ROM-BL would access BB5 to fetch any sort of verification token for xloader. No, this cert is inside SoC |
| 19:55.20 | dm8tbr | yes |
| 19:55.27 | dm8tbr | rom-bl is _very_ basic |
| 19:55.57 | dm8tbr | I'd expect the fancy stuff to hapen somewhere in the later (trusted) stage |
| 19:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | NOLO |
| 19:57.00 | DocScrutinizer | N950 NOLO for sure is accessing BB5 |
| 19:57.16 | dm8tbr | that's after X-loader/MLO, right? |
| 19:57.39 | DocScrutinizer | you can tell by the semi-certified fact that firmware revision is stored in BB5, so you can't downgrade |
| 19:57.57 | DocScrutinizer | yes, xloader loads NOLO/2nd-stage |
| 19:59.25 | DocScrutinizer | ROM-bl(0th stage) -> xloader/1st-stage -> NOLO/2nd-stage -> kernel |
| 19:59.34 | dm8tbr | btw: IIRC xloader is also quite size constrained. I think it needs to fit in the CPU SRAM |
| 19:59.41 | DocScrutinizer | each one sign-checks the next one on loading it |
| 20:00.02 | GeneralAntilles | Teehee http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/apple_slide_to_unlock.jpg |
| 20:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | yes, some 64k max size for xloader |
| 20:00.16 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 20:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | or was it 16k ? |
| 20:00.42 | dm8tbr | I remebered 32 :) |
| 20:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | sth like that |
| 20:02.34 | DocScrutinizer | your (user's) only chance to repossess your own hardware is to find a xloader that has proper matching hash, and loads arbitrary 2nd-stage without tearing down the TPM |
| 20:03.07 | DocScrutinizer | (at least if you still want to run a HARM system in normal mode) |
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| 20:05.01 | DocScrutinizer | well, you *might* get away with a cracked NOLO as well, as flashing gets controlled by NOLO and so you could hack NOLO to forbid flashing of a new "fixed" xloader |
| 20:06.32 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, you can't get/do either, as you'Re missing the seckey to sign any of both |
| 20:08.10 | DocScrutinizer | either catburglar Elop's apartment and lift the seckey, or find a liberal xloader that "by any strange luck" has a matching signature so it loads and runs on N950 |
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| 20:09.52 | DocScrutinizer | NB Nokia could publish such a liberal xloader any time, as there's no threat to *user's* security at all involved in it. As it needs explicit user action caled "flashing" to install a new xloader |
| 20:11.07 | DocScrutinizer | no rogue app, however nifty, could sneak in and take over the system by installing that liberal xloader |
| 20:11.47 | DocScrutinizer | 100% protect system from user, not protect user from threats |
| 20:11.56 | clbr | it's more about the music industry's bits in your filesystem |
| 20:12.12 | Stskeeps | except there's no drm |
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| 20:16.13 | DocScrutinizer | there is some form of DRM, it's called "Nokia account" |
| 20:16.27 | clbr | is there a law in europe (finland) prohibiting to sell communications devices with back doors, btw? |
| 20:17.25 | DocScrutinizer | nope, except allegedly content providers and carriers mandating such a security framework |
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| 20:18.25 | DocScrutinizer | so one slavery creates the next one |
| 20:18.55 | clbr | maybe it's something like the n9seconds puzzle for geeks. "nokia" spelled backwards as the signing key, haha |
| 20:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | intil finally with HD+ you can't fast-forward in your recorded HDTV any more |
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| 20:19.53 | jesuschrist | hi |
| 20:20.35 | DocScrutinizer | either you go for it and accept you're seeling your attention and virtually any other right you might once have had to those making money on you, or you refuse to use those devices |
| 20:20.47 | DocScrutinizer | selling* |
| 20:23.19 | DocScrutinizer | >>Your mind is totally controlled, it has been stuffed into my mold and you will do as you are told until the rights to you are sold.<< (FZ, I'm the slime) |
| 20:24.08 | DanielW | dm8tbr: i got an xmpp account with icq transport. i added it with mc-tool but i can not connect :-( |
| 20:25.16 | dm8tbr | DanielW: sorry to hear, might be e.g. a connection issue due to tls or so |
| 20:25.33 | dm8tbr | if you have developer mode on you should be able to get to the syslog IIRC |
| 20:27.27 | xavir | hi. is there some sort of barcode and/or qr scanner app with price check available for the n9? |
| 20:29.52 | DanielW | dm8tbr: played arround with the settings and got it working. would be nice if it could show user names and not just icq uins |
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| 20:33.12 | *** topic/#harmattan by DocScrutinizer -> A place for harmattan device and development discussions |NEW flasher to "unbrick": http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member |
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| 21:29.58 | piggz | lo..just testing on the n950, a qml app that works fine on my pc...on the 950, the C++ objects i have passed to the QML with setContextProperty() are no longer visible, and im getting reference errors. Any ideas? |
| 21:30.32 | npm | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.01 | npm | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.24 | npm | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:31.57 | npm | i'm know RPM and fedora and not so much about debian packaging... |
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| 21:34.13 | piggz | npm: i always use the version from the changelog file, in the format x.y.z |
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| 21:40.36 | npm | so the version in the changelog file is good enough to satisfy ovi store requirements? as opposed to putting Version: in the rules? ( I'm debian clueless, RPM is the package system i know) |
| 21:41.17 | npm | i'm trying to wrap up final steps to publish my app and i don't want to get hit by some stupid mistake like forgetting a required field |
| 21:41.54 | npm | the issue is that there is no explicit version field other than what's in the changelog... if that's enough to satisfy ovi req's then i'm good. |
| 21:42.25 | piggz | npm: well, im not going to definitely say thats the case, but thats how my apps in the ovi store have always worked :) |
| 21:42.31 | npm | other than updating to Harmattan icons now causes my app to appear twice in the launcher |
| 21:42.59 | piggz | thankfully, ive just fixed my porblem that was due to harmattan_booster library |
| 21:43.04 | npm | piggz: cool thanks. i haven't published to ovi yet so i'm learning. |
| 21:43.52 | npm | piggz: is that for single invocation launching or something else? |
| 21:43.54 | piggz | npm: also, its worth expecting a few rounds of failures :) ive had several, its worth having patience as each review process takes several days! |
| 21:44.03 | npm | doh |
| 21:44.28 | npm | that's what i was hoping to avoid. multiple rounds of failures w/ waits between each fail. |
| 21:45.04 | npm | do you have your app source online so i can take a look at your qtc_packaging/* files? |
| 21:45.07 | piggz | npm: something else...it looks like it caches the qml to improve startup time, but seems less than bug free..without it enabled im not getting the reference errors |
| 21:45.58 | npm | is that something that ovi validation kicked back to you, or some other special issue in your app? |
| 21:46.15 | piggz | well, as ive just conifgured dropbox to try dropn9, lest see what happens when i stick them in the public folder :) |
| 21:46.40 | piggz | npm: thats just something ive found testing locally...hopefully im going to submit this app tonight also |
| 21:47.01 | npm | i've been saying that for a week now :-( |
| 21:47.26 | piggz | heh, me too, just suffer from lack of time to iron things out! |
| 21:49.54 | npm | well thanks for letting me worry about one less thing (the version reqt for ovi) |
| 21:51.15 | piggz | npm: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2016511/pgz-latitude2.tar.bz |
| 21:51.26 | piggz | that was the last app i got accepted to the store |
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| 21:54.06 | npm | cool thanks. |
| 21:55.07 | npm | at some point we may want to compare source ( when its released) as there may be some overlap : http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/ |
| 21:55.55 | npm | it doesn't look as crappy anymore but this is the idea: http://nielsmayer.com/voicetogoog/voicetogoog-map-view.png |
| 21:58.20 | piggz | sure....looks cool |
| 22:01.09 | rm_work | RST38h: can you get to my repo? |
| 22:01.19 | rm_work | sheeplauncher.net/debs/ |
| 22:01.39 | rm_work | i think my server got DDOSed this morning :/ |
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| 22:14.30 | piggz | ah, it seems that harmattan_booster requires app is started with /usr/bin/invoker |
| 22:16.35 | npm | yeah that's why i mentioned the single invocation launching |
| 22:17.15 | npm | aka: sed 's:Exec=.*:Exec=invoker --single-instance --type=e /opt/voicetogoog/bin/voicetogoog:' "$(CURDIR)"/../voicetogoog/voicetogoog.desktop > "$(CURDIR)"/debian/voicetogoog/usr/share/applications/voicetogoog.desktop.sed || echo -n |
| 22:18.03 | npm | oh that reminds me... does ovi store require me to put stuff in /opt/com.nielsmayer.voicetogoog/ or can i put in /opt/voicetogoog ? |
| 22:18.45 | npm | i found some oddities between "--type=d" and "--type=e" |
| 22:19.10 | DocScrutinizer | echo -n ?? |
| 22:19.39 | npm | keeps the 'rules' file from outputting crap related to sed |
| 22:19.54 | DocScrutinizer | || : |
| 22:19.56 | npm | actually it forces success |
| 22:19.58 | piggz | npm: opt/voicetogoog should be fine |
| 22:19.59 | DocScrutinizer | || true |
| 22:20.31 | npm | well those aren't the characters i cut and pasted :-) |
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| 23:13.24 | rafael2k | I just compiled a hello world in harmattan, but ./a.out dont run |
| 23:13.43 | rafael2k | how to sign it? |
| 23:16.37 | thp | rafael2k: if you put it i a .deb, it should work |
| 23:17.09 | thp | rafael2k: i.e. use qt creator to build a .deb package or if you are using scratchbox, use dh_make to create the inital debian/ structure |
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| 23:24.47 | thp | rafael2k: (in case you didn't get the messages above) -> if you package your hello world in a .deb and install it, it will work |
| 23:26.12 | rafael2k | thp: just a matter of packaging using debian way? |
| 23:27.26 | thp | rafael2k: yep |
| 23:28.00 | thp | rafael2k: as long as you don't need any additional aegis permissions, you don't need to sign/hash anything (or it will be hashed/signed at install time) |
| 23:29.16 | thp | rafael2k: or try aegis' relaxed exec mdoe |
| 23:29.21 | thp | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:29.24 | thp | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3827&page=2 |
| 23:31.39 | rafael2k | relaxed mode is no more.. |
| 23:31.59 | rafael2k | i |
| 23:34.23 | rafael2k | the binary just get permission denied |
| 23:34.45 | rafael2k | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:35.15 | rafael2k | sh: a.out: Permission denied |
| 23:37.09 | rafael2k | Id like an easy way to run the apps I build in the device. can I create a valid .deb from harmattan itself? |
| 23:47.35 | thp | rafael2k: dh_make + dpkg-buildpackage |
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| 23:51.07 | rafael2k | thp: thx! |
| 23:52.05 | rafael2k | Ill now try to workaround the fact that apt wants to delete almost everything to install dh-make.. |
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