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| 00:33.20 | rm_you | graaaah someone needs to port pandora |
| 00:33.22 | rm_you | maybe i'll do it <_< |
| 00:34.58 | rm_you | still busy fighting with QML tho <_< |
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| 01:01.52 | GeneralAntilles | Lion broke the Qt SDK. |
| 01:05.34 | MohammadAG | it's a conspiracy! |
| 01:13.53 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@f051228047.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:14.14 | seif | hey guys |
| 01:14.24 | seif | are there any community repositories for harmattan |
| 01:14.28 | seif | or somethign similar |
| 01:14.37 | Tronic | How many gigabytes does scratchbox require? |
| 01:14.46 | Tronic | I am trying to install on a laptop with small SSD :/ |
| 01:14.54 | rm_you | seif: http://ageofikon.com/prh/ |
| 01:15.06 | rm_you | Tronic: 5-6 IIRC |
| 01:15.23 | Tronic | Hmm, look like I'll have to use an external HDD. |
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| 01:35.37 | *** join/#harmattan Ken-Young (~Ken@pool-151-199-36-118.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:38.41 | Ken-Young | I just received my N950 loaner, and am trying to install the preloaded SDK on an Ubuntu machine. When I execute the installer, it states "Retrieving information from remote installation sources..." which produces an error popup window stating "Could not fetch Updates.xml" . I know my network connection is good - does anyone know what's going wrong? |
| 01:41.03 | GeneralAntilles | Repo could be down. |
| 01:42.04 | seif | hey guys quick question again |
| 01:42.39 | seif | i installed my own version of telepathy instead of the old version shipped with harmattan |
| 01:42.56 | seif | however now it tells me that around 100 packages are not needed |
| 01:43.05 | seif | can i know what the main metapackage for harmattan is |
| 01:53.19 | GeneralAntilles | Dunno |
| 01:53.28 | GeneralAntilles | probably has "pr" in its name somewhere, though. |
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| 01:57.39 | Ken-Young | Oh well, I should have done some searching. It looks like it is a known problem that the SDK which comes loaded on the N950 is defective. |
| 01:59.31 | MohammadAG | at least you got your N950 :P |
| 01:59.53 | Ken-Young | Yup, and I'm a very happy guy. |
| 02:01.32 | seif | GeneralAntilles, i know i uninsalled it |
| 02:01.40 | seif | but i couldnt find it in the repos afterwards |
| 02:09.09 | Ken-Young | How may one become root within the N950's terminal app? |
| 02:09.43 | seif | GeneralAntilles, you got an idea what else could be named in it |
| 02:09.48 | macmaN | run may-i-become-root-please |
| 02:10.06 | macmaN | or devel-su as an alternative |
| 02:10.08 | Ken-Young | macmaN, I should have guessed! |
| 02:10.27 | macmaN | if you ask it so politely, it cant refuse! |
| 02:10.33 | macmaN | even with aegis |
| 02:10.41 | macmaN | maybe aegis will drop its guard, huh DocScrutinizer |
| 02:10.47 | macmaN | if ur polite |
| 02:10.48 | GeneralAntilles | seif, may not be available in the repos. |
| 02:10.55 | seif | yeah |
| 02:11.03 | seif | thinking of getting it form the scratchbox if its there |
| 02:11.11 | GeneralAntilles | seif, given there hasn't been an SSU yet. |
| 02:11.25 | GeneralAntilles | Scratchbox's is probably not the same. |
| 02:11.50 | Ken-Young | macmaN, Thanks - devel-su seems to work. |
| 02:12.14 | macmaN | google n900 n950 migration |
| 02:12.23 | seif | GeneralAntilles, its not there -.- |
| 02:12.36 | seif | GeneralAntilles, ok any idea how i can backup my n950 contact list :P= |
| 02:12.39 | GeneralAntilles | seif, could extract it from the flashable image. |
| 02:12.44 | GeneralAntilles | Dunno about backups |
| 02:12.50 | seif | GeneralAntilles, yeah |
| 02:12.52 | seif | let me try that |
| 02:13.11 | MohammadAG | afaik there's also develsh |
| 02:14.13 | seif | GeneralAntilles, do you have an image |
| 02:14.22 | seif | because for some reason its taken ages to download here |
| 02:14.31 | seif | wait |
| 02:14.36 | seif | i am downloading the one click flash thingie |
| 02:15.35 | GeneralAntilles | seif, not handy, no. |
| 02:15.39 | GeneralAntilles | It's a big image. |
| 02:19.22 | seif | yeah |
| 02:46.33 | Tronic | What do I need to get the harmattan targets enabled within scratchbox? |
| 02:47.09 | Tronic | In particular, do I need to fetch autotools-legacy from somewhere on the host system manually, or perhaps some other files too. I have only run the admininstall script so far. |
| 02:47.41 | Tronic | (and enabled sudomode + slightly modified the login script so that I can get to sb shell) |
| 02:48.07 | seif | guys how do i add this repo to my device |
| 02:48.07 | seif | http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/elleo/Harmattan/ |
| 02:50.42 | Tronic | seif: In /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, I suppose. |
| 02:51.26 | Tronic | seif: Create new file, use the other files as reference. |
| 03:07.14 | seif | Tronic, what about the pgp keys |
| 03:12.49 | seif | Elleo, how do i add your repository to my list |
| 03:12.55 | seif | does it need a pgp key |
| 03:20.24 | GeneralAntilles | Hrm, where the hell do you turn off all of the input auto-bullshit. |
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| 03:29.22 | GAN900 | I really hate feeling clumsy with a new input device. |
| 03:29.30 | GAN900 | Stupid N950 keyboard. |
| 03:30.41 | Tronic | You mean the feeling of the keys on N950? |
| 03:31.28 | Tronic | I cannot quite put a finger on it (no pun intended) but somehow the N900 keys feel a lot better. |
| 03:33.10 | Tronic | I suppose it might be due to N950 having too flat keys. On N900 they are nicely curved, on N950 it is all flat, except for the little notches on F and J. |
| 03:56.09 | GAN900 | I can hit 60wpm on the N900 touch typing |
| 03:56.20 | GAN900 | Dunno if I'll even get there with the N950. |
| 03:56.55 | GAN900 | frals or somebody, would you please file a bug internally that you can't tell chat windows apart in the small task switcher overview? . . . |
| 04:08.31 | rm_you | GAN900: yeah i know, the keyboard feels a bit weird. almost like it didn't get a whole lot of attention. i mean, it's like the main thing about the new device, right!? -- oh wait. |
| 04:08.48 | rm_you | and on that note, bbl, sleep :P |
| 04:09.04 | GAN900 | night |
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| 06:19.28 | Tronic | The icon templates offered seem to be in 80x80 pixel size but there is no icon folder on the SDK for that. |
| 06:19.52 | Tronic | Should I scale it to 64x64 or use some folder that doesn't exist by default? |
| 06:20.19 | Tronic | This is for the application icon on the launcher. |
| 06:24.35 | ieatlint | the standard deployment icon target from the qt sdk is the 64x64 dir |
| 06:25.05 | ieatlint | so i'd say you need to probably aim for that, but that's a guess |
| 06:25.45 | Tronic | The scratchbox template project also had targets for xpm and various sizes smaller than 64x64. |
| 06:26.22 | ieatlint | not sure... qt sdk just has the 64x64 png |
| 06:36.12 | Tronic | Got it working after a lot of attempts. The working recipe: no file extension in myapp.desktop, install myapp.png into $$DATADIR/icons/blanco/80x80/apps (with 80x80 dimensions). |
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| 06:37.05 | Tronic | The menu actually uses 80x80 icons. Allows for a 64x64 logo to fit nicely inside that rounded corner box. |
| 06:37.23 | Tronic | Icon templates can e found at google://harmattan+icon+template |
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| 06:56.26 | Khertan | Morning |
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| 07:24.46 | Tronic | Yay, my first MeeGo app live on the the device \o/ |
| 07:28.41 | antman8969 | just read |
| 07:29.00 | antman8969 | tronic, you should use a .svg and put it in /usr/share/icons/scalable |
| 07:29.11 | antman8969 | despite what the default is |
| 07:29.37 | antman8969 | if you use a png you may notice that your app icon is blurry and or your install icon is blurry |
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| 07:29.53 | antman8969 | and with a svg the dimensions don't matter |
| 07:30.01 | antman8969 | but 44x44 is what I've seen |
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| 07:30.12 | Mek | uhm, the install icon is a seperate one taken from the base64-encoded one in your control file |
| 07:30.19 | antman8969 | sry, 80x80 |
| 07:30.21 | Mek | so you can have a 64x64 for that and an 80x80 for the menu |
| 07:30.37 | Mek | no need to use svg (scalabable graphics are still nice of course) |
| 07:31.12 | antman8969 | yea the install icon was mispeak, but for whatever reason any png I used was not rendered correctly on the app screen |
| 07:31.56 | wazd | so they are not svgs after all? |
| 07:32.07 | antman8969 | optionally. I am using svgs |
| 07:32.37 | wazd | antman8969: http://zhil.in/snes2.svg can you try this? :) |
| 07:32.58 | antman8969 | try making it an icon on the app screen? |
| 07:33.10 | wazd | yep |
| 07:33.23 | antman8969 | sec |
| 07:35.11 | antman8969 | looks perfect |
| 07:35.19 | antman8969 | did you make it? |
| 07:36.36 | wazd | yep |
| 07:36.42 | wazd | awesome news, thanks a lot :) |
| 07:36.53 | antman8969 | lol np, gj |
| 07:37.14 | Summeli | wazd: you're making a snes emu too?-) |
| 07:37.38 | wazd | Summeli: no but javispedro does I think ;) |
| 07:37.46 | Summeli | I have my antsnes already ported |
| 07:37.52 | Summeli | runs pretty well on N950 too |
| 07:37.57 | wazd | Summeli: oh :) |
| 07:38.14 | antman8969 | source available? |
| 07:38.19 | antman8969 | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:38.20 | wazd | Summeli: maybe I can create another one for you? :) |
| 07:38.40 | Summeli | antman8969: source is available, but I don't have the packaging working yet :( |
| 07:38.47 | wazd | Summeli: SNES controller has different color variations fortunately :) |
| 07:39.05 | Summeli | I'm using qtcreator to create the deb-packages, so I don't know how to integrate to the OBS etc. |
| 07:39.25 | Summeli | I https://github.com/Summeli/AntSnes/tree/Meego |
| 07:39.30 | antman8969 | lol yea I havn't really done too much in OBS yet either.. I've been using creator and scratchbox |
| 07:39.32 | antman8969 | thanks |
| 07:39.38 | antman8969 | I"d like to start seeing what people are doing |
| 07:39.56 | Summeli | it's basically same as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHtJpr0oKe0 |
| 07:40.36 | Summeli | the qtcreator had somekind of "publish" interface for the maemo, so I might just wait them to add that to the harmattan too |
| 07:40.53 | Summeli | or learn to actually use the obs |
| 07:41.11 | antman8969 | lol well you could do scratchbox in the meantime |
| 07:41.19 | wazd | Summeli: http://bnbgaming.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/snes.jpg <- this one? :) |
| 07:41.43 | Summeli | wazd: yeah, I have controller like that :) |
| 07:42.29 | antman8969 | it's nice having a capacitive for these kind of things now lol |
| 07:43.12 | wazd | Summeli: so be it :) |
| 07:43.52 | Summeli | I have the gpsp also almost working.. The audio is good, but the video is failing badly |
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| 08:05.05 | wazd | Summeli: http://zhil.in/emus/snes3.svg <- there you go :) |
| 08:05.59 | Summeli | thanks :) |
| 08:07.24 | Elleo | seif: as root simply do: cd /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ && wget http://mikeasoft.com/~mike/elleo.list && apt-get update |
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| 08:16.58 | wazd | Summeli: small update: http://zhil.in/emus/snes3.svg |
| 08:17.19 | wazd | Summeli: I've been wrong bout shape of the buttons |
| 08:17.29 | Summeli | that looks nice |
| 08:22.44 | Summeli | Elleo: ok, i can find my own (non-working package) already with that :) |
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| 09:03.19 | Termana | morning |
| 09:05.11 | hiemanshu | morning Termana |
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| 09:18.20 | cpscotti | learns that inheriting your "MainWindow" from QDeclarativeView is not such a nice idea.. booster FTW! :D |
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| 09:48.44 | cpscotti | Hey all.. any ideas on this: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=26944 (Using booster + QDeclarativeView + reimplementing QWidget.closeEvent) |
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| 10:13.16 | tomma | cpscotti, how about using eventfilter? |
| 10:14.13 | cpscotti | tomma, hmm dunno. Never tried.. how does that work? |
| 10:15.03 | tomma | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qobject.html#installEventFilter |
| 10:15.15 | cpscotti | tomma, that looks good! |
| 10:16.58 | cpscotti | tomma, thanks man! That looks pretty good! |
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| 10:37.25 | cpscotti | tomma, perfect! works like a charm.. Just one other bit, at installEvent's doc it says that returning true would "stop"/filter the event but I had to use even->ignore() to actually stop the window from being closed immediately. Does that sound right? |
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| 11:03.39 | slaine | right, just opened my dev kit box |
| 11:04.04 | slaine | wondering of my n900's A-10E charger will charge the n950 ? Manual seems to indicate yes |
| 11:05.35 | leinir | slaine: people say yes :) |
| 11:06.02 | slaine | good to know, didn't want to blow anything up :) |
| 11:09.01 | leinir | at least people have been reporting on forums etc that it works - i've not tried myself, i so rarely use it :) |
| 11:09.10 | slaine | What's MOSLO ? |
| 11:09.12 | leinir | as i'm by the computer anyway, i just use that ;) |
| 11:09.21 | leinir | more slow in jive? |
| 11:09.34 | slaine | leinir: see the topic |
| 11:10.25 | leinir | aah right ;) |
| 11:11.10 | slaine | lol, I got sent here to talk about harmattan and moslo is now being discussed in #meego-arm |
| 11:11.34 | Mek | moslo == boot loader iirc |
| 11:14.54 | MohammadAG | NOLO = bootloader |
| 11:14.54 | MohammadAG | moslo is something for dual boot |
| 11:15.26 | wazd | obvious names indeed |
| 11:16.43 | MohammadAG | yep |
| 11:16.46 | MohammadAG | :p |
| 11:26.07 | cpscotti | hey, anyone knows where's the source for the Boosted Widget Gallery? That one's startup is really boosted but if you just follow the booster docs you I can't achieve the same :/ |
| 11:37.18 | MohammadAG | cpscotti, are you using MTF? |
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| 11:42.36 | Damion3 | gah, do I also need to sit on #meego-arm to pick up stuff? |
| 11:43.00 | cpscotti | MohammadAG, what's MTF? |
| 11:45.06 | andre__ | meego touch framework |
| 11:45.27 | cpscotti | hmm.. no. |
| 11:45.59 | cpscotti | andre__, I'm using harmattan-platform-api |
| 11:46.15 | cpscotti | is that it? |
| 11:47.46 | tomma | qml components? |
| 11:49.22 | cpscotti | tomma, yes |
| 12:03.25 | cpscotti | tomma, andre__ MohammadAG .. so? any idea on where's that source? is that one using mtf? |
| 12:05.09 | Mek | yes, the widget gallery ones use mtf, not qml |
| 12:05.41 | DocScrutinizer | a pity about the NICE dat/time-picker of MTF and the unbearably butt ugly ones of QML |
| 12:06.41 | Mek | yeah... the qml components are lacking quite a few nice things from the MTF widgets... |
| 12:08.17 | DocScrutinizer | though even the MTF datepicker *could* be smarter: could be just calendar app called with a special parameter, but showing the whole calendar - with appointments and all |
| 12:09.24 | DocScrutinizer | so picking a date from week or month view doesn't open the day's detail view in calendar app but rather returns the picked date to caller |
| 12:09.59 | DocScrutinizer | THAT would be really awesome smart system design |
| 12:11.11 | DocScrutinizer | well, with QML we can forget about such fancy stuff anyway |
| 12:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | all hail to slotmachine :-/ without even day-of-week display |
| 12:14.59 | DocScrutinizer | I couldn't resist to open a ticket on nokia bugtrac for it, feel free to vote for it - or whatever it is you could do there |
| 12:17.48 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=219 |
| 12:28.00 | DocScrutinizer | btw who's to pester about http://www.developer.nokia.com/bugs mask design? the one-line text-edit for comment is an offense |
| 12:30.25 | DocScrutinizer | I'm tempted to send 5..20 "sequel" comments, each with just the portion of text visible for proofreading in that one-liner text field |
| 12:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | ...which btw is less than the previous one sentence post |
| 12:31.44 | tomma | it does allow multiple lines... maybe your browser just doesn't know how to scale text areas ? =) |
| 12:32.14 | DocScrutinizer | umm, possible. Seems Nokia has "optimized for MSIE" all over the place |
| 12:32.42 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I usually don't have similar problems on other bugtrackers |
| 12:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | using Konqueror just in case it matters, and NO this won't change just for Nokia |
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| 12:37.04 | DocScrutinizer | btw the main problem with a lot of Nokia webpages seems JS to me |
| 12:37.22 | DocScrutinizer | not checked if this applies to bugtracker as well |
| 12:37.26 | razvanpetru | anyone else had problems updating a button's imageSource? |
| 12:37.40 | razvanpetru | I see that the property is not an alias to the actual image source for some strange reason... |
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| 12:39.04 | DocScrutinizer | ravfrom some 5 years ago and plain Qt I know that images for widgets usually are included to source, you had to do some tricks to actually use an external file for source at runtime |
| 12:39.12 | DocScrutinizer | razvanpetru: ^^^ |
| 12:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | s/tricks/dynamic loading of the image data in plain hard code/ |
| 12:41.20 | razvanpetru | iconSource: (qmlBridge.isActive(itemId) ? "image://theme/icon-m-common-remove" : "image://theme/icon-m-common-add") |
| 12:41.40 | razvanpetru | isActive from C++ is not getting called and I get a add icon :) |
| 12:42.00 | razvanpetru | so what is the JS engine doing, evaluating the first part of the ternary OP as a variable? :P |
| 12:43.16 | razvanpetru | DocScrutinizer: for Button.qml I think it was designed to be updateable, the iconSource property is public... |
| 12:46.24 | razvanpetru | anyone interested in creating a gtd app? |
| 12:49.50 | DocScrutinizer | razvanpetru: NFI about JS and QML :-) |
| 12:50.15 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, my comment probably wasn't really helpful |
| 12:51.31 | razvanpetru | hm, so what happens is this: the function IS getting called, but before the sheet is even created. of course it returns false because there's not data at that point in it :) I think I'll have to use a Loader for this one... |
| 12:52.05 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, the joy of OO |
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| 12:53.40 | DocScrutinizer | after 10+ years I'm still undecided if I consider OO a good or a hindering thing, as you have a really hard time to keep up with what's *really* going to happen on your CPU, and *when* |
| 12:53.49 | razvanpetru | it's good :P |
| 12:54.05 | razvanpetru | it's just a way to manage complexity though, nothing more |
| 12:54.23 | razvanpetru | just like functions, files and so on |
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| 12:54.41 | razvanpetru | but it's quite easier to screw up the design with it |
| 12:54.42 | DocScrutinizer | yup, basically you're right |
| 12:55.00 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I'm undecided |
| 12:55.25 | Khertan | Hello |
| 12:55.30 | DocScrutinizer | I tend to think for GUI and similar stuff it's usually the right paradigm |
| 12:55.52 | DocScrutinizer | unless you run into nice little gotchas like yours |
| 12:56.35 | razvanpetru | I think I ran into a JS gotcha myself - if it's typed in it's loaded, parsed and run :) |
| 12:56.36 | TSCHAKeee | too bad C++ OO is passed off as real OO... |
| 12:56.42 | TSCHAKeee | unfortunate. |
| 12:56.52 | TSCHAKeee | at least Qt makes it closer to something sane. |
| 12:56.55 | Mek | this gotcha has nothing to do with OO, and much more with declarative/functional code |
| 12:56.57 | DocScrutinizer | if you do, then you have a few funy hours digging through all the object sourcecode |
| 12:56.59 | razvanpetru | as opposed to fake OO? :P |
| 12:58.01 | TSCHAKeee | razvanpetru: Stroustroup was so obsessed with compiler abstract data type resolution that he put his blinders on to every other aspect of OO. |
| 12:58.16 | TSCHAKeee | I still think he's a nut. |
| 12:58.38 | razvanpetru | I kind of like the guy, he always seems relaxed when speaking/writing |
| 12:58.44 | razvanpetru | he's attained zen... |
| 12:59.14 | TSCHAKeee | he's had to. he constantly get pelted by the Smalltalk/ObjC/Ruby/Late Binding community (of which, I am one.) :P :) |
| 12:59.26 | TSCHAKeee | s/get/gets/ |
| 12:59.43 | TSCHAKeee | always startles me when an infobot does that. |
| 12:59.44 | razvanpetru | thanks infobot |
| 13:00.14 | DocScrutinizer | infobot: shame on you! |
| 13:00.14 | infobot | Shame on you on you!! |
| 13:00.20 | DocScrutinizer | thanks apt |
| 13:00.38 | DocScrutinizer | oooh even this doesn't work anymore - good |
| 13:00.54 | razvanpetru | late binding is good, but I'd like it to be explicit. e.g: I decide when to use it :) |
| 13:00.59 | razvanpetru | kind of like C# dynamic |
| 13:01.07 | TSCHAKeee | interesting approach. |
| 13:01.10 | TSCHAKeee | ;) |
| 13:01.45 | razvanpetru | ;) |
| 13:04.39 | *** join/#harmattan fiferboy (~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy) |
| 13:07.48 | razvanpetru | wow, using a Loader is pretty easy, much easier than lazy-loading widgets. on Symbian I saw big issues with app startup time from QWidget creation and the workaround was not nice at all... |
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| 13:07.51 | *** join/#harmattan rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:10.13 | Khertan | razvanpetru, you will see later that Loader isn't perfect for everythings :) |
| 13:10.36 | gri | when it loads dll/so files, it blocks ui :( |
| 13:12.11 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@46.208.181.50) |
| 13:13.29 | razvanpetru | why/how load a dll with Loader? |
| 13:13.53 | gri | com.meego -> so file |
| 13:14.27 | razvanpetru | much to learn I still have :P |
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| 13:35.03 | gri | Is there a way to install a .deb package by ignoring it's architecture? The harmattan beta sdk directory only contains libqt4-meegographicssystemhelper-dev for armel but it's independent and should also work on i386 |
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| 13:37.54 | piggz | has anyone noticed dissapearing digits from the lock screen clock? |
| 13:38.23 | gri | yep |
| 13:38.31 | razvanpetru | yes |
| 13:38.47 | Kaadlajk | it is fixed in later firmware |
| 13:38.49 | DocScrutinizer | yes, 9 and 0 |
| 13:38.53 | razvanpetru | it's a battery-saving feature |
| 13:38.59 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 13:39.02 | TSCHAKeee | haha |
| 13:39.06 | gri | I just had it twice: After first boot and after a boot where battery got completely empty |
| 13:39.18 | TSCHAKeee | rofl |
| 13:39.24 | lardman | afternoon |
| 13:39.31 | DocScrutinizer | I have it all the time now |
| 13:40.04 | DocScrutinizer | I have not all the time, all the time now :-D |
| 13:40.29 | lcuk | hi lardman |
| 13:40.36 | lardman | hey lcuk |
| 13:40.40 | lcuk | enjoying your friday? |
| 13:40.41 | gri | I have another nice feature: The phone application and messages application never shows the name of my girlfriend, only the number - all other contacts work. This may be a sign she is evil |
| 13:40.43 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: hi |
| 13:40.50 | lcuk | and are you doing anything nice this weekend? |
| 13:41.00 | lardman | lcuk: been to midwife appointment, so only just got into work |
| 13:41.03 | lardman | hi Doc |
| 13:41.10 | lardman | lcuk: more unpacking I think! |
| 13:41.11 | lcuk | gri, the phone application shows me your girlfriends name ok! |
| 13:41.23 | lcuk | lardman, how long to go now? |
| 13:41.35 | lardman | due 14/8 |
| 13:41.47 | lcuk | oooh |
| 13:41.56 | lardman | yeah, getting scarily close |
| 13:41.58 | lardman | :) |
| 13:42.05 | lardman | bbiam, have to pop to bank |
| 13:42.05 | lcuk | :D |
| 13:42.14 | fiferboy | lardman: I don't think I have congratulated you yet |
| 13:42.17 | fiferboy | lardman: Congrats! |
| 13:42.32 | lcuk | fiferboy, mrs lardman is going the hard work! |
| 13:43.18 | fiferboy | lcuk: Nah, the husband is the most important part :) |
| 13:47.27 | slaine | just fired up my n950 for the first time |
| 13:47.31 | slaine | first impressions are very good |
| 13:47.52 | slaine | I like the hardware and the software so far, not done much beyond noodle around though |
| 13:48.19 | lcuk | fiferboy, if I was starting a qml app, which database storage would be recommended? |
| 13:49.31 | mgedmin | sqlite, lcuk? |
| 13:51.54 | lcuk | mgedmin, are there sqlite bindings for qml? |
| 13:52.04 | mgedmin | no clue |
| 13:52.23 | mgedmin | fiferboy, when I finally get a harmattan scratchbox, I'll be interested in the steps you took to build your fbreader .deb |
| 13:53.38 | mgedmin | lcuk, google hints that http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativeglobalobject.html#offline-storage-api uses sqlite as a backend |
| 13:55.01 | crevetor | lcuk: there is |
| 13:55.04 | crevetor | lcuk: hold on a sec |
| 13:56.22 | lardman | re |
| 13:56.25 | mgedmin | crevetor, did you see my gitorious merge requests? |
| 13:56.26 | lardman | fiferboy: thanks :) |
| 13:56.34 | crevetor | lcuk: actually I used what mgedmin sent |
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| 14:00.44 | lardman | right, parsers.... |
| 14:01.04 | kimju | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=xkeyboard-config-addons-rm680&project=home%3Akimju%3Aharmattan - anyone want to test (or do a code review for the pre/post inst/rm scripts)? |
| 14:01.06 | lardman | RST38h: you suggested something a while back, any links to good docs to read on how to write parsers? |
| 14:01.33 | lcuk | lardman, yacc and bison |
| 14:01.53 | lardman | I need to parse command strings in a Qt/C++ app |
| 14:02.35 | lcuk | command line arguments, or interactive? |
| 14:02.38 | lardman | arbitrary numbers of brackets for both grouping and function args |
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| 14:02.56 | lardman | command-line-ish, they will be Proximus rule commands |
| 14:03.36 | lardman | wonders to create own grammar or use xml or something like that which already has a parser |
| 14:03.43 | lardman | ^whether |
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| 14:04.34 | lardman | e.g. sorts of commands in here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/proximus/documentation.txt?root=proximus&view=markup |
| 14:05.05 | lardman | any thoughts or ideas gratefully accepted |
| 14:06.25 | lcuk | lardman, does proximus already include a parser for itself? |
| 14:06.30 | fiferboy | mgedmin: Sure, let me know when you are set up and I'll send you the source |
| 14:07.02 | lardman | lcuk: no, I'm writing it now |
| 14:07.26 | lcuk | lardman, ahh I tohught proximus was an existing app with parser etc |
| 14:07.31 | lcuk | thought |
| 14:07.34 | lardman | "for itself"? It's a C++ app, so it only needs the parser to determine the tree structure of rules passed in |
| 14:08.01 | lardman | nah, just something Jaffa and I were thinking about and wrote a wiki page about |
| 14:08.02 | mgedmin | build.pub.meego.com has download icons with the arrows pointing *up* |
| 14:08.13 | lardman | and which I'm now writing |
| 14:09.40 | lardman | should push the location manager updates he started writing yesterday |
| 14:09.41 | mgedmin | kimju, I'm looking at the postrm, and I don't understand why you remove the diversion only on purge |
| 14:11.02 | mgedmin | oh, the file you're installing is a conffile! |
| 14:11.18 | mgedmin | so it doesn't get removed on remove |
| 14:11.44 | mgedmin | I'm not sure I like that; apt-get remove won't restore the layout to the default one, seems counter-intuitive to me |
| 14:12.10 | lardman | hmm, I think perhaps writing it in XML would be easier, at the expense of making it harder to read the rules |
| 14:12.49 | lcuk | lardman, you can always make a visual editor for the rules |
| 14:13.07 | lcuk | and I agree, xml would be reasonable storage |
| 14:15.38 | kimju | mgedmin, problem is that the diverted file is not the configuration file, it's the datafile for definitions. and the conffiles are under /etc/meego-input-method-configuration/hw-keyboard |
| 14:16.13 | lardman | lcuk: yeah, well people won't be looking at the rules and they will most likely be created by specific apps anyway |
| 14:16.17 | kimju | mgedmin, and if the diverted file gets removed before the config-files, update-hwkb-config will fail to set any reasonable layout. |
| 14:16.20 | lardman | so xml seems reasonable |
| 14:16.32 | mgedmin | kimju, I see |
| 14:16.42 | kimju | mgedmin, I don't like that either, but that was best i could come up with. |
| 14:17.01 | lcuk | lardman, do we have always on gps and other nice things? |
| 14:17.13 | lardman | with Proximus? |
| 14:17.22 | lcuk | i mean on device in general |
| 14:17.26 | kimju | and it seems that the purge doesn't work either, as the postrm purge gets called before the conffiles are removed. |
| 14:17.29 | lcuk | does it drain battery |
| 14:17.36 | mgedmin | kimju, and now I realize I misunderstood how this works -- the user chooses a 'developer' layout in Settings, right? |
| 14:17.39 | lardman | woth n950 yeah I have it set to be on, battery seems good |
| 14:17.45 | mgedmin | the package doesn't silently override the default layout |
| 14:17.52 | lcuk | good stuff |
| 14:17.58 | lardman | but it's not always running as I don't have the map on all the time |
| 14:18.10 | mgedmin | so there's no harm in leaving the extra layouts about; if the user doesn't want them, she can choose the default layout in Settings |
| 14:18.11 | kimju | mgedmin, there is no UI for selecting hwkb layout. |
| 14:18.24 | mgedmin | oh? oh! aaaaugh |
| 14:18.55 | kimju | mgedmin, see the readme in that package and the /usr/bin/update-hwkb-config script.. |
| 14:19.05 | lcuk | lardman, well how will that work |
| 14:19.13 | lcuk | since you dont put the map on all the time |
| 14:19.16 | mgedmin | there was a readme? I missed it |
| 14:19.33 | lardman | lcuk: it only switches on when the map is on, like on the N900 |
| 14:19.39 | lardman | or are you talking about something else now? |
| 14:19.55 | lardman | Proximus will use passive location methods until it needs gps accurary |
| 14:20.07 | lardman | then it is switched on |
| 14:20.12 | lcuk | lardman, I am talking about the "shopper" rule knowing you are near the supermarket |
| 14:20.32 | lardman | ah ok, use cellid with offline lat/lon db to work out general area |
| 14:20.41 | lardman | then gps when you're close enough |
| 14:20.44 | lardman | that is my plan anyway |
| 14:20.48 | mgedmin | kimju, I think it would be nice to also briefly mention the need of apt-get purge in the Description field of debian/control |
| 14:21.15 | mgedmin | "For technical reasons apt-get remove is insufficient to disable these additional layouts, so if you want to be rid of them use apt-get purge xkeyboard-config-addons-rm680" |
| 14:21.28 | kimju | ok, will add. |
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| 14:41.31 | razvaway | harmattan has a WebkitView but no WebView!? |
| 14:42.09 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: you ever had a look at dwimd, and the way it is using python for these "config" things? |
| 14:44.59 | razvaway | geez... |
| 14:45.07 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: for creating complex rules python for sure is a better "config syntax" than any random xml makeup |
| 14:46.19 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dwimd/ |
| 14:48.39 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: http://hg.alexanderweb.de/dwimd-main/file/tip/contrib/alex_config.py |
| 14:49.13 | crevetor | razvaway: in QML ? I use WebView on Harmattan |
| 14:49.22 | razvaway | yea, PEBKAC |
| 14:49.26 | crevetor | lol |
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| 14:53.35 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: http://hg.alexanderweb.de/dwimd-main/file/7d806ddfbaa9/README.txt |
| 14:56.56 | lardman | thanks Doc, I'll have a look see |
| 14:58.46 | lardman | The only problem there is that you need to write Python scripts, which will be difficult to do automatically |
| 15:01.26 | DocScrutinizer | not really |
| 15:01.52 | DocScrutinizer | it seems fairly easy to insert templates and edit them |
| 15:02.56 | DocScrutinizer | hpwever there you *could* use "advanced" coding superpowers to tweak the "config" directly if you feel like doing that |
| 15:04.46 | DocScrutinizer | aiui you can even have multiple concurrenttly active configs in /etc/dwimd/dwimd_plugins/configs |
| 15:05.47 | lardman | Certainly I can understand the utility of python scripts that abstract the things to be done and checked |
| 15:05.54 | lardman | and it would be a good way to provide scripting |
| 15:05.57 | DocScrutinizer | means you simply throw in another file containing exactly one complete config for one behaviour. You'd just edit some vaiables in that template prior to copy to the config directory |
| 15:06.07 | lardman | but I'm not so keen on the executing each script every 30min, etc |
| 15:06.24 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: 30s |
| 15:06.33 | lardman | yes, typo on my part |
| 15:06.36 | lardman | even worse though |
| 15:06.38 | lardman | ;) |
| 15:07.03 | lardman | I'm doing the same though, multiple rules, the question is how to make it easily expandable |
| 15:07.19 | lardman | which may be using Python scripting to allow the addition of more complex checks |
| 15:07.27 | DocScrutinizer | and it's just the script will run all the time basically, it's just it should trigger events on certain conditions, so the sensors, if designed properly, will "block" and not constantly hog CPU and sensors |
| 15:08.12 | lardman | I thought that each of the script rules is run every 30s? |
| 15:08.40 | lardman | I'll have a look at the source and see how it's done there |
| 15:09.05 | DocScrutinizer | that's an implementation detail I had no look into. My idea is the whole thing has an event loop that blocks and only triggers for certain sensors firing |
| 15:09.50 | DocScrutinizer | we don't need to copy the implementation, but the design is kinda nice and sane |
| 15:09.51 | lardman | yep, and in that case you need to keep track of which rules need to know about certain events occuring |
| 15:10.19 | DocScrutinizer | well, aiui python does threading |
| 15:10.42 | lardman | but you may have more than one condition that can mean something should happen within a single rule |
| 15:11.14 | DocScrutinizer | so each sensor was a thread and would block until a IRQ, timer, or whatever fires/expires |
| 15:12.10 | lardman | I've not really looked at how to handle sensors that don't generate their own events |
| 15:12.30 | lardman | but I guess you would need to support polling them, so that you can then signal the rule that something has happened |
| 15:13.15 | lardman | ideally you sidestep that by checking the condition tree to see whether such polled sensors/events can trigger the tree, and if not you only check their status if other callback-type events are triggered |
| 15:13.32 | lardman | won't work all the time though |
| 15:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | yes, but that's always true, independent of implementation. So for certain sensors you will want to run some "script" on a regular schedule |
| 15:14.17 | DocScrutinizer | ack for your last comment |
| 15:14.20 | lardman | you'll want to check the sensor status on a regular schedule, but only if it's being used in a rule and only if the sensor can trigger the rule |
| 15:14.36 | lardman | otherwise it can just wait to be asked for status once |
| 15:14.37 | lardman | etc |
| 15:14.56 | lardman | that will cause a step change in power usage though, depending on how often the check is performed |
| 15:16.18 | DocScrutinizer | see, things like bme do polls several times a minute or even second, without too much impact on standby time. It's all about how much you actually do aka how much CPU load you create during the scheduled "poll" |
| 15:16.20 | lardman | though perhaps I underestimate how often the device wakes up for other reasons anyway |
| 15:16.36 | lardman | sure, so I'm underestimating |
| 15:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 15:17.36 | DocScrutinizer | ideally the device wouldn't wake up at all. powertop however shows maemo5 wakes up several times per *second* |
| 15:18.08 | lardman | ack |
| 15:19.06 | DocScrutinizer | Total wakeups 4306, 143.5/s |
| 15:19.06 | lardman | well polling things like the proximity sensor would probably only be wanted if the device is active and doing something anyway |
| 15:19.12 | lardman | ouch |
| 15:19.26 | lardman | well sounds bad, I've no clue what is bad |
| 15:19.41 | DocScrutinizer | that's quite normal |
| 15:19.57 | DocScrutinizer | so don't worry about ne wakeup every 30s ;-) |
| 15:20.02 | DocScrutinizer | one* |
| 15:20.24 | lardman | the other question is whether 30s is often enough for some sensors |
| 15:20.26 | DocScrutinizer | worry about keeping CPU and peripheral load low while doing it |
| 15:20.59 | DocScrutinizer | yes, I think the dwimd concept is missing a dynamically adjustable poll time |
| 15:21.21 | DocScrutinizer | aiui each sensor shall have its own poll pace |
| 15:21.40 | DocScrutinizer | some never polling, others maybe once a second |
| 15:21.52 | lardman | I'd also like to provide a service to other apps, so that other people can create rules for whatever they want, and pass them to e.g. proximus to service |
| 15:22.02 | DocScrutinizer | most sensors *should* work IRQ driven |
| 15:22.37 | slaine | Does the Harmattan SDK / Qt Creator pack work ok on OS X 10.7 ? |
| 15:23.32 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: just depends whether that's exposed for use I guess |
| 15:23.48 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: e.g accelerometer doesn't need 5/s sample rate do make sure you detect a movement. It is IRQ driven and thus could trigger a "script execution" when sensor is first level of a "if moving"... |
| 15:24.01 | lardman | yep |
| 15:24.49 | rm_you | holy backlog |
| 15:24.53 | rm_you | not reading all that |
| 15:24.55 | rm_you | well anyway |
| 15:25.00 | lardman | rm_you: lol |
| 15:25.25 | razvaway | is there any hope to have a content area as big as the entire screen in a Dialog? |
| 15:25.27 | rm_you | does anyone know how to install a repo + package on N950? like what a .install file did on N900? or is it un-possible? |
| 15:25.41 | lardman | not possible afaiu |
| 15:25.47 | lardman | though needs to be made so |
| 15:25.53 | rm_you | yeah |
| 15:26.02 | rm_you | i fixed up Packrat for Harmattan repos yesterday |
| 15:26.17 | rm_you | but the current .install format not only doesn't work, it is blocked by the browser |
| 15:26.39 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: I used a ISDN python based framework some 10 years or so ago. It had nice implementation of events. Lemme just check if I can find it |
| 15:26.49 | lardman | thanks |
| 15:27.19 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: you had a python "script" and in this you defined what's going to happen when e.g inbound-call event happened |
| 15:27.48 | DocScrutinizer | the python interpreter was inside the ISDN "driver" |
| 15:28.02 | lardman | My issue with that is that you may want to combine more than one event |
| 15:28.09 | DocScrutinizer | and called the according function in script on events |
| 15:28.17 | lardman | mBarocde uses Python scripting within the C++ app, so that's fine |
| 15:28.48 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: you always have just ONE event as trigger, everything else are conditions checked inside that event |
| 15:29.09 | lardman | but a rule can easily be more complex than that |
| 15:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | s/ONE/ONE arbitrary/ |
| 15:29.49 | lardman | equally, if some of the other conditions are callback rather than poll based, you don't even need to check them, just see what their last state was |
| 15:29.59 | lardman | which I'm guessing should be "cheaper" |
| 15:30.32 | DocScrutinizer | yes, exactly. that's duty of sensor object implementation |
| 15:31.22 | lardman | quite, so Proximus currently has manager classes for various things, e.g. location, which handles the callbacks from e.g. liblocation, then sends the updates to rule conditions that need it |
| 15:31.38 | DocScrutinizer | needs to be carefully and individually crafted for each sensor |
| 15:31.48 | lardman | yes indeed |
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| 15:42.12 | lardman | heads home |
| 15:42.19 | lardman | catch you chaps next week |
| 15:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | lardman|gone: HEY!!! http://www.capisuite.org/ |
| 15:48.50 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.capisuite.org/manual/ch01s02.html |
| 15:51.41 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.capisuite.org/manual/ch02s06.html |
| 15:52.48 | javispedro | installed portmap again and no sign of aegis self-destruction so far. knock on wood. |
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| 16:13.07 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: WB |
| 16:13.26 | DocScrutinizer | 13min for reflash? :-P |
| 16:13.48 | javispedro | yes, reflashing already ... hrmpf. |
| 16:13.54 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 16:14.28 | DocScrutinizer | ~curse aegis |
| 16:14.28 | infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, aegis ! |
| 16:15.33 | DocScrutinizer | this is a MEGA security vulnerability *introduced* by aegis |
| 16:16.01 | javispedro | I didn't reflash yesterday so I had to either way, to see if it fixes the nokia account thing |
| 16:17.20 | DocScrutinizer | actually it seems aegis is turning arbitrary good-minded apps into timebombs - a REAL SUCCESS for security of a user device |
| 16:17.21 | javispedro | and I'm also playing with fire, as I set portmap to start on boot via upstart |
| 16:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | how can you *dare*??? :-P |
| 16:18.27 | javispedro | ok, something is wrong |
| 16:18.30 | javispedro | he remembers my locale |
| 16:18.33 | javispedro | s/he/it/ |
| 16:18.41 | javispedro | aaaaaah, sim in. |
| 16:19.10 | DocScrutinizer | do you think any noob can come and start random crap at system boottime? like dbus-scripting daemons, or wharever? C'MON! |
| 16:19.49 | DocScrutinizer | this is a *user device*! |
| 16:19.53 | DocScrutinizer | XP |
| 16:20.30 | DocScrutinizer | I notice I'm starting to get bitter about aegis crap |
| 16:21.39 | DocScrutinizer | ponders to write and publish his first harmattan app: "Nuke Me!" |
| 16:22.19 | DocScrutinizer | you can activate the random mode on install time, for even better thrills |
| 16:22.31 | javispedro | the truth is, I do not think you can |
| 16:22.39 | javispedro | oh well |
| 16:22.42 | javispedro | sorry |
| 16:22.43 | DocScrutinizer | on default mode clicking the icon will instabrick your device |
| 16:22.44 | javispedro | yes, you can. |
| 16:24.17 | DocScrutinizer | and HEY it even is *useful* XP - use it last second prior to evil police or other staff is snatching away your device to scrutinize it and download all your contacts -HAHAHA |
| 16:25.17 | DocScrutinizer | the most simple most silly most awesome app ever written, even much better than *#-ena ;-P |
| 16:26.26 | DocScrutinizer | one line in a script: echo >>$0 |
| 16:26.34 | DocScrutinizer | instabrick |
| 16:26.56 | DocScrutinizer | oh I forgot shebang, so actually a 2-liner |
| 16:27.23 | javispedro | ponders if you need to spawn develsh |
| 16:27.34 | javispedro | and if aegis will brick after or before that =) |
| 16:27.45 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 16:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | rotfl |
| 16:28.50 | DocScrutinizer | seriously, this is *unbearable*, completely unacceptable behaviour of this aegis crap |
| 16:29.22 | DocScrutinizer | I'd consider it a showstopper for whole platform |
| 16:29.53 | DocScrutinizer | you can't rollout a device with a system that bricks on $random |
| 16:30.50 | DocScrutinizer | I mean sony got bashed for their P1(?) *rebooting* randomly |
| 16:31.23 | DocScrutinizer | what do you think engadget et al will comment on a device that *bricks* randomly |
| 16:31.37 | Summeli | how can I get log from obs? I get that my package has been "exclued" but it would be nice to know why |
| 16:31.41 | javispedro | HAH! |
| 16:31.47 | Summeli | excluded even |
| 16:31.48 | javispedro | Nokia Account NOW works, first try. |
| 16:31.56 | DocScrutinizer | SEE?! |
| 16:31.59 | DocScrutinizer | \o/ |
| 16:32.09 | DocScrutinizer | reflash HELPS |
| 16:32.50 | DocScrutinizer | probably I should add my NukeMe! app to crontab, so you MUST reflash once a day :-P |
| 16:33.22 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: fun for though: I was stracing the binary, and it does talk with /sys/kernel/security |
| 16:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | which binary? |
| 16:34.13 | DocScrutinizer | rpcmap? |
| 16:34.31 | javispedro | /usr/lib/AccountSetup/ovisome-long-string-I-am-too-lazy-to-paste |
| 16:34.41 | javispedro | no, the nokia account thingie |
| 16:34.42 | DocScrutinizer | err portmap |
| 16:34.46 | DocScrutinizer | aaaah |
| 16:35.32 | DocScrutinizer | and you straced that? duh! |
| 16:35.45 | DocScrutinizer | evil hax0r |
| 16:37.49 | DocScrutinizer | well, somebody (frals?) suspected reflashing would break login to nokia account on "our" devices. Seems it's the other way round, though I still miss to get it why it is broken at all |
| 16:39.15 | DocScrutinizer | I still wonder if it might store up some cookie whenever you enetr incorrect credentials for account on first try |
| 16:42.35 | rm_you | so what is the state of this: http://gitorious.org/appbrowser ? |
| 16:42.49 | rm_you | is there a deb somewhere i can just install, or is it not done yet at all? |
| 16:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | at least for login to http://www.developer.nokia.com on desktop PC this seems to be the root cause of all problems - I had to tag the "Rememebr me on this computer" checkmark so the login would actually let me in |
| 16:43.48 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise just trows me backon same login screen |
| 16:43.48 | javispedro | rm_you: there's no backend, so. |
| 16:43.57 | rm_you | lol |
| 16:44.09 | rm_you | well |
| 16:44.27 | rm_you | is it really just the UI? or does it actually let you browse, but there's just no way to install? |
| 16:44.27 | javispedro | Summeli: you have selected the wrong repository |
| 16:45.21 | Summeli | javispedro: ok, how do I change it?-) |
| 16:45.29 | DocScrutinizer | http://ageofikon.com/prh/ FTW |
| 16:45.40 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer: :P |
| 16:46.00 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer: so you think it's useful so far? what changes do i need to make? obviously some cleanup, but... |
| 16:46.17 | rm_you | i am home sick from work so i can mess with it today |
| 16:46.30 | Summeli | ah, found it |
| 16:46.33 | DocScrutinizer | well, it obviously needs to expose .deb to click on, rather than installfiles |
| 16:46.38 | Summeli | what's the correct repository for harmattan? |
| 16:46.46 | javispedro | MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan/Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard |
| 16:46.47 | rm_you | k |
| 16:47.21 | javispedro | with only armv7el as arch |
| 16:47.32 | DocScrutinizer | other than that it's just fine for me, YMMV regarding gfx design |
| 16:47.41 | DocScrutinizer | aka cleanup |
| 16:48.01 | Summeli | javispedro: ok, and that can be added in advanced interface i guess |
| 16:48.07 | javispedro | Summeli: ah, yes |
| 16:48.20 | javispedro | Summeli: put MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan in project |
| 16:48.26 | javispedro | and Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard in repo |
| 16:50.05 | Summeli | javispedro: thanks, I'm going forward now :) |
| 16:50.33 | Summeli | "no build results avaiable" |
| 16:50.48 | Summeli | ok, now rebuild from somewhere |
| 16:51.19 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer: ok, installer link fixed |
| 16:51.44 | javispedro | Summeli: you only depend on libqt4-dev? No GLES headers? |
| 16:52.16 | Summeli | javispedro: ok, there's a bug, it should have core, gui, and the opengl |
| 16:52.37 | javispedro | sadly, I do not think you are able ot depend on GL :P |
| 16:52.59 | javispedro | I wasn't able to few days ago because seemingly the nokia propietary packages have not been imported yet |
| 16:53.09 | DocScrutinizer | meh, trying to get mc from http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/djszapi/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan/ - not available and mc-dbg_4.7.0.9-2_armel.deb link on https://build.pub.meego.com/package/binaries?package=mc&project=home:djszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan still times out |
| 16:53.12 | Summeli | too bad :( |
| 16:53.40 | Summeli | javispedro: but I should be able to at least try to build it? yes? :) |
| 16:53.50 | javispedro | oh well, try if you wish :) |
| 16:54.12 | Summeli | maybe I'll just wait |
| 16:54.54 | Summeli | I got the source structure working for deb and ocs, so I can wait for a while |
| 16:55.14 | javispedro | so, how does antsnes work? :) |
| 16:55.20 | Summeli | javispedro: pretty well actually |
| 16:55.32 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: transfer started! \o/ |
| 16:55.44 | Summeli | there's little things missing, like adjusting the audio (I'm stil with pulse-audio simple) |
| 16:56.26 | DocScrutinizer | "Can't install \n Invalid installation package" SH*T same as with bash |
| 16:56.30 | javispedro | pulseaudio simple is fine |
| 16:56.49 | Summeli | that was easy to use |
| 16:56.50 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer: so this is not ever going to work because of ... aegis? |
| 16:56.56 | javispedro | in fact it is probably better than the alternative unless you want to do wacky stuff such as changing rate on the fly |
| 16:57.15 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: nfc what this error message means, in Web browser |
| 16:57.16 | Summeli | javispedro: volume control would be nice |
| 16:57.21 | rm_you | lol |
| 16:57.31 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: I've seen other pkgs install flawlessly |
| 16:58.05 | DocScrutinizer | I suspect the source isn't trustworthy or sth |
| 16:59.32 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: |
| 16:59.34 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 22 18:55:55 (none) tracker-extract[5955]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/user/.config/tracker/tracker-extract.cfg' |
| 16:59.35 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 22 18:55:55 (none) tracker-extract[5955]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - Loading defaults into GKeyFile... |
| 16:59.37 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 22 18:55:57 (none) pkgmgrd[5961]: GLIB MESSAGE default - ASSUME NETWORK 0 |
| 16:59.42 | rm_you | ok |
| 16:59.48 | rm_you | so good, it's just the one package? |
| 17:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | I'd need to test with another preferably known-good .deb |
| 17:01.41 | DocScrutinizer | any suggestion on what that known-good pkg should be? |
| 17:03.31 | rm_you | erm |
| 17:03.32 | rm_you | no :/ |
| 17:03.35 | rm_you | maybe memory-game? |
| 17:03.38 | rm_you | i assume that works |
| 17:03.45 | DocScrutinizer | mompl |
| 17:04.06 | rm_you | (if the page breaks for you at any point, it's because i'm messing with it live right now :P) |
| 17:04.37 | DocScrutinizer | yup that works |
| 17:04.39 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 17:04.47 | rm_you | k |
| 17:04.57 | rm_you | well |
| 17:05.00 | rm_you | repos list works |
| 17:05.02 | rm_you | sections works |
| 17:05.12 | rm_you | finally got the system name to print "Harmattan" |
| 17:06.53 | rm_you | k, basic tweaks fone |
| 17:07.02 | rm_you | *done |
| 17:07.58 | rm_you | holy @*%& my monitors have completely different color profiles |
| 17:09.10 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder what's the issue with bash and mc .deb |
| 17:10.44 | DocScrutinizer | obviously both need some permissions they don't get, and this gets detected when browser "transfer" tries to start installation on me clicking the downloaded .deb |
| 17:12.57 | DocScrutinizer | I bet I could wget && dpkg -i the mc.deb, and on trying to run it I'd get same "operation not permitted" error |
| 17:13.05 | rm_you | yeah |
| 17:13.06 | DocScrutinizer | as I get with bash |
| 17:13.09 | rm_you | i assume so |
| 17:14.19 | DocScrutinizer | ok, so the only two .deb I was actually interested in installing so far, both failed |
| 17:14.46 | DocScrutinizer | I declare this platform unusable for development |
| 17:16.23 | DocScrutinizer | honestly it seems the only projects you could develop there are wallpaper changer class, or my NukeMe! app |
| 17:17.03 | rm_you | lolwut |
| 17:17.33 | *** join/#harmattan TSCHAKeee (~TSCHAKeee@173.9.2.181-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:18.27 | TSCHAKeee | has been using Qt Creator solely for dev, and it seems to be behaving, with the exception of it trying to load file paths for relative paths out of /home/developer, instead of the app path. |
| 17:19.13 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: send me the source package |
| 17:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I heard on Android it's also quite easy to "develop apps" as long as you stay inside the sandbox they define there |
| 17:19.29 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: ??? |
| 17:19.30 | rm_you | sooo who wants to make a QML frontend for Pianobar? :P |
| 17:19.30 | achipa | btw wget you should have out of the box ? |
| 17:19.42 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: to check the manifest |
| 17:19.52 | achipa | for mc |
| 17:19.58 | DocScrutinizer | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/binaries?package=mc&project=home:djszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan |
| 17:21.48 | TSCHAKeee | seriously, what do you expect? they've laid out what to use to develop for a phone that will be targeted for consumers. |
| 17:22.17 | DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: yes, QML |
| 17:22.48 | TSCHAKeee | is using a hybrid of STL C++, Qt C++, and QML |
| 17:22.55 | DocScrutinizer | you obviouly don't need mc on target device to click together some QML in SDK |
| 17:23.15 | TSCHAKeee | trust me, it's not just qml |
| 17:23.17 | TSCHAKeee | ;) |
| 17:23.19 | DocScrutinizer | you don't need bash for that either |
| 17:23.20 | TSCHAKeee | but whatever. |
| 17:23.36 | TSCHAKeee | qml is just the icing. |
| 17:24.45 | DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: fine, so you say the sandbox has many toys for you and fits your needs. Not mine though, I don't want a sandbox |
| 17:26.01 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@g230053189.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:26.33 | TSCHAKeee | in the end, Nokia saw fit to send me a device to create an app that will be run on the N9. So that's what I'm doing. |
| 17:26.56 | TSCHAKeee | we shouldn't lose sight of that fact. |
| 17:27.04 | rm_you | out of curiosity |
| 17:27.13 | rm_you | will an app that uses Python-Qt work? |
| 17:27.21 | DocScrutinizer | for the things I'm interested in, I need a proper toolbox *on device* starting with a real shell like bash, and not ending on I2Ctools. And I'm not going to build each and every of those tools native, with each single build taking 2 days until you figured how to get it right for aegis |
| 17:27.45 | TSCHAKeee | doesn't madde provide what you need for that? |
| 17:27.52 | rm_you | anyone have a SB environment they want to let me SSH to? :P |
| 17:28.56 | achipa | Errorcode: unknown |
| 17:29.01 | achipa | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:29.26 | DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: me? I2Ctools, bash, on MADDE? lol! |
| 17:29.50 | TSCHAKeee | no, smartass |
| 17:29.55 | TSCHAKeee | just to build the packages you need |
| 17:29.58 | TSCHAKeee | so you can do dev on device |
| 17:30.01 | TSCHAKeee | ;) |
| 17:30.16 | achipa | rm_you: define python-qt |
| 17:30.27 | TSCHAKeee | i mean, we've got OBS.... MADDE.... Qt Creator.... |
| 17:30.33 | TSCHAKeee | that covers a lot of use cases. |
| 17:30.37 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not inclined to build my own mc, just because aegis doesn't want me to use the one djszapi built |
| 17:31.47 | achipa | DocScrutinizer where is libslang2 supposed to come from ? |
| 17:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: how am I supposed to know about the answer to that question? |
| 17:32.51 | DocScrutinizer | are you asking me to run a find across my local mirror of nokia repo? |
| 17:33.11 | rm_you | achipa: Depends:python2.5, python2.5-qt4-dbus, python2.5-qt4-gui, python2.5-qt4-webkit, python2.5-qt4-network, python2.5-gobject |
| 17:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: please notice I'm not the one who built mc |
| 17:33.30 | achipa | rm_you: nope, rinse and repeat in pyside |
| 17:33.36 | rm_you | achipa: i'm looking at this package for fremantle: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/pyradio/3.9/ |
| 17:33.36 | DocScrutinizer | that was djszapi |
| 17:34.20 | rm_you | achipa: considering attempting to port, just trying to determine initial complexity. if it was just building a few packages for harmattan, i'd do it right now, but if it'll require coding and redoing the UI, it'll have to wait |
| 17:34.55 | achipa | (08:10:46 PM) DocScrutinizer: obviously both need some permissions they don't get, and this gets detected when browser "transfer" tries to start installation on me clicking the downloaded .deb |
| 17:35.04 | achipa | so this is basically guesswork ? |
| 17:35.18 | achipa | because the package fails because of a fscked dependelncy |
| 17:35.30 | achipa | nothing to do with aegis or permissions or anything |
| 17:35.32 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: for bash it's result of investigations javispedro did |
| 17:36.12 | achipa | good, well now you know that mc fails for another reason |
| 17:36.23 | DocScrutinizer | good |
| 17:36.34 | achipa | rm_you: not redoing, just packaging and import statement mods, mostly |
| 17:36.46 | rm_you | achipa: ok, i'll give it a shot |
| 17:37.00 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: what I don't get though is how it can build with a missing dependency |
| 17:37.14 | rm_you | anyone out there want to give me a shell with Scratchbox? :P |
| 17:37.26 | *** join/#harmattan apol_ (~apol@185.50.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 17:37.30 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: it's not a build-dep, he might have just left it in the control file |
| 17:38.25 | achipa | hm, it does have buil-depends... but where is it then... |
| 17:38.29 | DocScrutinizer | sighs |
| 17:39.15 | achipa | I this turns out to be some OBS buggery... |
| 17:40.15 | DocScrutinizer | ohwell, leave me a note when this platform is ready for *serious* development |
| 17:42.00 | DocScrutinizer | meanwhile I'm going to add some chrome and bells and icing to my NukeMe app |
| 17:42.35 | *** join/#harmattan qgil (c06468aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.104.170) |
| 17:43.44 | achipa | what's the platform got to do with a random package a random dude built on a random OBS build ? |
| 17:43.50 | achipa | (random ranting) |
| 17:45.43 | DocScrutinizer | go fix http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/b/bash/bash_4.1-3+maemo6+0m6_armel.deb then again ask me about state of platform |
| 17:46.44 | DocScrutinizer | scratc ramndom from $package, $dude, and $OBS for ^^^ that one |
| 17:46.52 | DocScrutinizer | scratch* |
| 17:48.02 | rm_you | DocScrutinizer: still, one or two packages don't mean the whole system is broken |
| 17:48.19 | rm_you | and obvious it is very beta, that's been well known from the start |
| 17:48.29 | DocScrutinizer | just it's the first and only two packages I really tried so far |
| 17:48.33 | rm_you | yeah |
| 17:48.34 | achipa | well if it's a Nok package go file a bug... |
| 17:48.36 | rm_you | small sample size |
| 17:49.07 | achipa | slang is not part of the API, it's only in the SDK repo |
| 17:49.09 | DocScrutinizer | a samples size of two negatives out of a pool of NNN is no random result |
| 17:49.26 | achipa | it is an unknown result |
| 17:49.45 | achipa | (if we are in the game of nitpicking :) ) |
| 17:50.40 | DocScrutinizer | add in javispedro |
| 17:51.38 | DocScrutinizer | he nuked his device two times now, err 3 times. 2 times at random moments when portmap did sth aegis didn't like, and one time when he tried to use a self compiled stock kernel |
| 17:51.57 | rm_you | lol |
| 17:53.25 | DocScrutinizer | so for me it's NukeMe app for now, all beyond that is too tedious |
| 17:53.37 | rm_you | what does NukeMe do? :P |
| 17:53.49 | DocScrutinizer | echo >>$0 |
| 17:53.55 | DocScrutinizer | instabrick |
| 17:54.05 | rm_you | lolwut |
| 17:54.25 | achipa | yeah, I'm totally sending back this thinkpad to Marc Shuttleworth |
| 17:54.28 | rm_you | random question, is there any way to just DISABLE the VKBD? it's really annoying when it pops up randomly |
| 17:54.38 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg |
| 17:54.40 | achipa | compiled a stock kernel, entered a line or two and now it doesn't boot |
| 17:55.23 | rm_you | lol |
| 18:00.09 | DocScrutinizer | please elaborate on >entered a line or two< |
| 18:01.50 | achipa | sudo rm -rf / |
| 18:01.55 | achipa | it all went downhill from there |
| 18:02.04 | DocScrutinizer | hahahahahahahaha |
| 18:02.08 | achipa | and they keep telling me that sudo is there to protect from unauthorized access |
| 18:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | *gasp* |
| 18:02.21 | achipa | so anyway |
| 18:02.27 | achipa | I took a look at the mc package |
| 18:02.32 | achipa | it lacks a manifest |
| 18:02.40 | achipa | not even a default one |
| 18:02.45 | DocScrutinizer | so anyway building and flashing a STOCK kernel is supposed to not work, yes?? |
| 18:03.29 | DocScrutinizer | no "entering rm -rf" :-P pfff |
| 18:04.13 | achipa | hey, what do I know, ask 'keeps |
| 18:04.28 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, got some useful things to do, bbl |
| 18:04.36 | achipa | and tell djszapi to build with a manifest |
| 18:11.21 | fiferboy | achipa: I thought there is at least a default manifest by virtue of building in Harmattan environment? |
| 18:11.24 | fiferboy | Is that not ture? |
| 18:12.08 | achipa | fiferboy: it was on OBS, not the 'real' SDK |
| 18:12.19 | achipa | (i.e. he didn't build with the SDK) |
| 18:13.14 | fiferboy | achipa: So the OBS implementation doesn't bestow the default manifest? |
| 18:13.52 | achipa | apparently |
| 18:14.18 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (d0365ad2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.54.90.210) |
| 18:14.27 | achipa | or does it in a was that didn't go through in this particular build |
| 18:15.08 | achipa | s/was/way/ |
| 18:15.16 | fiferboy | I'll have to check my packages from OBS, but I /think/ they have them... |
| 18:17.27 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: I tried to install the bash package but it won't brick, dammit... what am I doing wrong ? |
| 18:18.33 | DocScrutinizer | who said dpkg -i bash.deb would brick the device? |
| 18:18.59 | achipa | so you did what exactly ? |
| 18:19.17 | DocScrutinizer | what you're doing wrong? you don't listen to what I say |
| 18:19.37 | achipa | (08:54:38 PM) DocScrutinizer: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg |
| 18:19.39 | achipa | this |
| 18:19.42 | achipa | how did you get here |
| 18:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25529&postcount=94 |
| 18:20.33 | achipa | okay, so you DID do a rm -rf / |
| 18:21.16 | DocScrutinizer | I didn't install a kernel though, please don't arbitrarily mix up things |
| 18:23.37 | achipa | that was a joke |
| 18:23.40 | DocScrutinizer | >>After installing the package, do NOT modify the installed files if they request a token. Security FW will discover an unexpected change in the file and lock the device (ops! reflash)<<http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ |
| 18:24.01 | achipa | yes |
| 18:24.09 | achipa | that's what I'm saying |
| 18:24.13 | DocScrutinizer | that's about python files, perfectly sane to edit |
| 18:24.16 | achipa | you did a rm -rf / equivalent |
| 18:24.27 | achipa | it's a sane command |
| 18:24.29 | achipa | useful |
| 18:24.30 | achipa | logical |
| 18:24.36 | achipa | but also deadly |
| 18:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | allowing aegis to brick the device is deadly - for N9 merchantability |
| 18:26.23 | achipa | yes, that's why there are a couple of obstacles in terms of other sources, developer mode, etc, etc |
| 18:26.28 | DocScrutinizer | if it's not allowed to edit a python file, then it's aegis' damn duty to forbid editing, not to brick device |
| 18:27.00 | DocScrutinizer | side note: I didn't do that |
| 18:27.01 | achipa | I mean, I can brick pretty much ANY OS in two or three command line cmds |
| 18:27.48 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: then at best it's a packaging bug |
| 18:28.24 | achipa | there is no protection against bricking on ANY OS |
| 18:29.07 | achipa | (if you go into admin/developer modes and throw a wrench in there) |
| 18:29.38 | DocScrutinizer | there's a difference though between exposing /dev/hda and plastering the whole place with invisible AP mines |
| 18:29.45 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work, any better progress today? |
| 18:30.53 | DocScrutinizer | and honestly aegis enforcing a reflash of a perfectly sane system is outright malicious |
| 18:31.06 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: not invisible, but I fully agree that there is not enough docs to deal with them |
| 18:31.26 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: progress on what? :P on my QML app, no |
| 18:31.36 | GeneralAntilles | rm_work, OK, anything else then? :P |
| 18:31.44 | rm_you | GeneralAntilles: cleaned up http://ageofikon.com/prh/ a bit |
| 18:31.51 | achipa | it's not about sanity, it's about being tainted |
| 18:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | a device in developer mode is tainted by definition |
| 18:32.33 | achipa | developer mode is a flexible term |
| 18:33.02 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, and Nokia's definition is so utterly odd I don't find terms to describe it |
| 18:34.26 | achipa | you should see the Microsoft definition |
| 18:35.36 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not going to touch this thing anymore prior to Nokia explaining how I get $random binary running and *working* in DEVELOPER mode (my definition of developer mode, I don't care what's the term in Nokia speak, may it be "open mode" or "tainted" or "developer" or whatnot) |
| 18:36.19 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (6271c6f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.113.198.248) |
| 18:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | I got thid device to mess with kernel and low level stuff, that'S been my application. The system doesn't allow |
| 18:37.05 | DocScrutinizer | I'm waiting for Nokia to fix the issue |
| 18:37.47 | DocScrutinizer | I don NOT NEED aegis in what I think is a proper developer mode |
| 18:38.33 | DocScrutinizer | and I don't care if half the system refuses to run in devel mode as Nokia thinks it's too dangerous to expose IP by allowing it to run |
| 18:39.09 | DocScrutinizer | that's what TC concept is meant to define developer mode like |
| 18:39.34 | DocScrutinizer | NOT aegis forcing a reflash, WTF?! |
| 18:40.18 | DocScrutinizer | which gashead even dared to think about such nonsense |
| 18:41.22 | hiemanshu | nokia |
| 18:41.26 | hiemanshu | :P |
| 18:44.02 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 18:44.25 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, is the cable detecter really a viable thing now we have magnetometer? |
| 18:46.09 | SpeedEvil | lcuk: yes - if it can sample fast enough |
| 18:46.34 | lcuk | well how fast might it work we have qmlcompass somewhere? |
| 18:47.02 | crevetor | lcuk: what's up with qmlcompass ? |
| 18:47.20 | SpeedEvil | You're looking for signigicant 50/60hz variation in readigs |
| 18:47.55 | crevetor | The rate is supposedly user-definable |
| 18:49.14 | lcuk | crevetor, nothing up, but wondering about using it to prototype one of DocScrutinizer's device app suggestions |
| 18:50.28 | lcuk | ie testing one of the simpler non aegis items |
| 18:50.30 | crevetor | lcuk: the sources are there fyi : https://gitorious.org/qmlcompass/qmlcompass |
| 18:51.31 | crevetor | aerials-crew.com |
| 18:52.07 | lcuk | crevetor, is it on a repository for install? |
| 18:52.18 | crevetor | Oups sorry about that, wrong window |
| 18:52.23 | SpeedEvil | crevetor: it's not so much thr rate that's interesting - it's if the device has a sampling period minimum of under a few milliseconds. |
| 18:52.27 | SpeedEvil | Anyway. |
| 18:53.12 | SpeedEvil | If it's possible, you will see - wafter ignoring the static fiel - a vector changing at a frequency related to the samplerate of the matetometer and the mains |
| 18:53.35 | crevetor | lcuk: not a repo but you can download the .deb here : https://projects.developer.nokia.com/qmlcompass/files |
| 18:54.01 | crevetor | SpeedEvil: you mean like changing at 50Hz in europe ? |
| 18:54.05 | SpeedEvil | So average over a second (say), and see what the residual data looks like after you remove that average |
| 18:54.13 | SpeedEvil | crevetor: Sort-of. |
| 18:54.19 | crevetor | SpeedEvil: ok |
| 18:54.28 | lcuk | crevetor, and will this be installable on DocScrutinizer's n950 without any aegis drama? |
| 18:54.40 | SpeedEvil | crevetor: The magnetic field changes twice per cycle - or 100hz in europe |
| 18:54.46 | crevetor | lcuk: yes |
| 18:54.50 | lcuk | \o/ |
| 18:55.28 | crevetor | lcuk: or is DocScrutinizer's N950 different from the others ? |
| 18:55.37 | SpeedEvil | If you can sample at 50Hz, then the resultant frequency you will get will be something like 10hz |
| 18:56.02 | lcuk | crevetor, not sure |
| 18:57.35 | crevetor | lcuk: well in installs without drama on other N950 |
| 18:58.33 | lcuk | i am installing it now |
| 18:58.40 | lcuk | the webbrowser on n950 is very slick |
| 18:59.34 | crevetor | it is :) Sometimes it explodes on mine though : it says it crashed |
| 19:03.54 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (6271c6f8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.113.198.248) |
| 19:04.10 | GeneralAntilles | We need an N950 icon |
| 19:06.20 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 19:07.20 | lcuk | crevetor, does the compass just directly read via qt mobility? |
| 19:13.20 | mgedmin | lcuk, AFAIU yes, check out https://gitorious.org/qmlcompass/qmlcompass/blobs/master/qml/MainPage.qml |
| 19:21.09 | antman8969 | so does the obs actually let you download a package? |
| 19:21.39 | kimju | yes, it just takes a while to get published. |
| 19:21.45 | lcuk | antman8969, normally yes |
| 19:21.52 | antman8969 | is the package located on my project page? |
| 19:22.04 | kimju | and unless you have disabled the publishing |
| 19:22.19 | lcuk | it is a building factory, from the source files you provide it generates packages in each selected repository and build type out the other end |
| 19:22.34 | lcuk | antman8969, the links to the destination repositories is |
| 19:22.47 | mgedmin | once again wonders about convincing Qt Creator to build FBReader |
| 19:23.21 | *** join/#harmattan vgrade (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 19:23.23 | antman8969 | was that you looking for a link lcuk? |
| 19:23.29 | antman8969 | or just stopping typing lol |
| 19:24.01 | lcuk | mgedmin, which books are you reading atm? |
| 19:24.11 | lcuk | has not read many recently |
| 19:24.23 | mgedmin | are you interested in recommendations, or what I'm currently reading? |
| 19:24.31 | lcuk | mgedmin, conversation |
| 19:24.34 | lcuk | so either :) |
| 19:24.41 | mgedmin | if the latter, David Weber's latest series, because I'm bored and out of better books to read |
| 19:25.17 | mgedmin | if recommendations, I've received most fun from Lois McMaster Bujold, Steven Brust, Jim Butcher (Dresden Files, starting with book 2; Codex Alera was a bit dull in comparison) |
| 19:25.35 | mgedmin | Charles Stross |
| 19:27.56 | crevetor | lcuk: yes |
| 19:28.03 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: the magnetometer can sample up to 1000/7.5 s^-1 |
| 19:28.04 | crevetor | lcuk: it uses the QtMobility QML bindings |
| 19:28.28 | crevetor | I don't treat the values at all : each time the compass sends me an update I update the position of the arrow |
| 19:28.33 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: it can get read out by simple script |
| 19:29.36 | DocScrutinizer | #!/usr/bin/env python import struct f = open("/dev/ak89740", "rb") while True: data = f.read(4*2) x, y, z, valid = struct.unpack("hhhH", data) print "x=%d y=%d z=%d valid=%d"%(x,y,z,valid) |
| 19:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | should run @ 100Hz I'd guess |
| 19:31.46 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, the qml one looks pretty though :P |
| 19:31.54 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you need to run it by feeding script name to python as parameter, as shebang doesn't work, once again thanks aegis |
| 19:32.15 | lcuk | never needed a shebang to run the qmlcompass |
| 19:32.22 | lcuk | or a snake for that matter |
| 19:32.49 | lcuk | but it does appear not so quick, hopefully that can be rectified |
| 19:33.21 | DocScrutinizer | I consider eventually running the script >log.txt and feed log.txt to a fft after that |
| 19:35.05 | *** join/#harmattan CaCO3 (~CaCO3@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:35.47 | DocScrutinizer | the fun part will be to run a realtime 50/60Hz filter against the data from /dev/ak89740 and see which axis shows which value and phase for the 50Hz, then deteriming where the source of the magnic field is and output some user feedback about it |
| 19:36.29 | DocScrutinizer | determining* |
| 19:36.41 | DocScrutinizer | and magnetic* MEH |
| 19:38.26 | DocScrutinizer | I expect sme aliasing for 60Hz grids like USA as well, but that shouldn't be a problem, as we know we are looking for 60Hz, so 100Hz sampling rate is just fine to detect 60Hz |
| 19:41.23 | DocScrutinizer | the wire is 90° rotated to the one axis with signal, assuming the other two axis got no signal at all |
| 19:43.48 | DocScrutinizer | well 90° from axis with signal, and NOT at 90° of the axis with no signal |
| 19:47.34 | mgedmin | doesn't Nyquist Theorem or something say that you've got to sample at 120 Hz to detect a 60 Hz signal? |
| 19:48.04 | DocScrutinizer | meh, I'm fuzzy. The axis that could wrap around the wire if you'd bend it is the one that gets signal, I.E. it's at 90° to the direction of the straight wire, and a tangent on a circle around the wire |
| 19:48.24 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: otherwise you get aliasing, yes |
| 19:49.04 | mgedmin | aliasing means something like you detect a 10 Hz signal instead of 60 Hz? |
| 19:49.09 | DocScrutinizer | but if you *know* you're looking for 60Hz, the aliasing doesn't matter, you just look for the aliasing products rather than the original 60Hz |
| 19:49.16 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 19:49.58 | mgedmin | feels all clever for understanding this now :) |
| 19:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | well, the sensor itself has a probing delay of 7.5ms, the rest is sw to run it as fast as possible |
| 19:52.45 | DocScrutinizer | note it has no sample rate, it just starts a new probe each time you read from /dev/ak89740 |
| 19:53.25 | DocScrutinizer | I'd guess we could beat this up to >60Hz |
| 19:53.34 | DocScrutinizer | err 120Hz |
| 19:54.08 | DocScrutinizer | ~1/0.0075 |
| 19:54.08 | infobot | 133.333333333333 |
| 19:54.52 | mgedmin | whoa, infobot is a calculator too! |
| 19:55.13 | DocScrutinizer | even a somewhat smart one |
| 19:55.49 | DocScrutinizer | ~1/0 |
| 19:55.55 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 19:55.57 | mgedmin | you crashed it! |
| 19:56.02 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 19:56.31 | SpeedEvil | remembers another channel that had a bot that was an interface to bc. |
| 19:56.36 | DocScrutinizer | ~55! |
| 19:56.36 | infobot | somebody said 55! was 12,696,403,353,658,275,925,965,100,847,566,516,959,580,321,051,449,436,762,275,840,000,000,000,000 |
| 19:56.40 | mgedmin | it was a logical paradox, you know that's a sure way to break computers |
| 19:56.58 | SpeedEvil | And an author that didn't understand that you can write infinite loops in bc. |
| 19:59.44 | DocScrutinizer | well, anyway you need to add to this 7.5ms the time to read and write registers via I2C at very least |
| 20:01.24 | DocScrutinizer | but as mentioned, as long as the sampling window is significantly shorter than 1/(2f) |
| 20:01.52 | DocScrutinizer | and the sampling rate has a sufficently jitter free pace |
| 20:02.10 | DocScrutinizer | you would even get away with 2 samples / s |
| 20:02.36 | DocScrutinizer | though this would increase detection time quite a bit :-) |
| 20:03.40 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, have you installed the qmlcompass? |
| 20:03.46 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 20:03.49 | lcuk | :D |
| 20:04.29 | DocScrutinizer | but compass is doing a lot of averaging etc |
| 20:04.52 | lcuk | it looks more like qt mobility is just jittery |
| 20:05.07 | lcuk | like unsmoothed accelerometer was on n900 |
| 20:06.10 | DocScrutinizer | I think 40Hz was the highest in this QMLsensors app you could set for magnetometer |
| 20:06.11 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, thanks for highlighting the /dev node though, will have a peek at that next time I open scratchbox |
| 20:07.23 | DocScrutinizer | also the Qmagnetometer was broken as in it never yielded a OVL for me, it rather just stopped delivering values |
| 20:07.46 | lcuk | OVL? |
| 20:08.18 | *** join/#harmattan Scifig (c00c4efa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.12.78.250) |
| 20:10.27 | DocScrutinizer | https://projects.developer.nokia.com/sensorgallery |
| 20:10.45 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: magnetic overflow, sensor saturated |
| 20:12.01 | DocScrutinizer | see the example on that webpage :-) (how handy) it shows some accuracy or error value as 4th value for QMagnetometer |
| 20:12.15 | DocScrutinizer | always been 1 for me |
| 20:12.24 | mgedmin | small UI fail |
| 20:12.41 | DocScrutinizer | you'd think it should become 0 when chip asserts error, rather it stopped yielding values then |
| 20:12.45 | mgedmin | I swipe a fullscreen app just a little bit to see the status line -- battery status, clock |
| 20:12.51 | mgedmin | only the information is outdated there |
| 20:12.58 | mgedmin | it shows what the time was when I last switched tasks |
| 20:13.04 | mgedmin | and the battery animation is frozen |
| 20:13.12 | mgedmin | I even thought my USB cable fell out or something |
| 20:13.20 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 20:13.28 | DocScrutinizer | o/ |
| 20:17.35 | DocScrutinizer | btw you are aware you'd need to run such a electric current detector app with realtime schedule, to make it keep the 7.5ms pace? Wonder if that's possible without another barf up of aegis |
| 20:17.39 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 20:18.16 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hi! |
| 20:18.43 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: read last few hours backscroll, you missed all the fun ;-P |
| 20:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | cheers, bbl |
| 20:22.46 | javispedro | what can I say, other than... *sigh* |
| 20:22.50 | javispedro | I am doing that a lot lately... |
| 20:25.11 | achipa | for those that care, mc can be build with literally <50 bytes of package-file editing |
| 20:25.27 | DocScrutinizer | I'm just back again to throw in another remark: N9 magnetometer allegedly is better than N950's |
| 20:26.08 | achipa | (I just took the source file from maemo, shoved it in SB, adjusted package names and that was it) |
| 20:26.45 | mgedmin | *sigh* I need to install scratchbox |
| 20:26.45 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: so it's available for th enoob masses (i.e. me :-D) now, as a .deb? |
| 20:26.55 | achipa | and I didn't even have to touch anything aegis-related |
| 20:27.20 | DocScrutinizer | cool, that's what it should be :-D |
| 20:27.41 | mgedmin | do I dare run sudo python harmattan-sdk-setup.py admininstall? |
| 20:27.55 | MohammadAG | wonders when his N950 will ship |
| 20:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | I'd like to install it right away and see it run on my N950, would probably make my day |
| 20:28.07 | achipa | always dare, a day without reinstalling is a day not lived |
| 20:28.13 | javispedro | what was the problem with the original packaging then? |
| 20:28.18 | javispedro | (mc) |
| 20:28.24 | achipa | javispedro: stupid dependency settings ? |
| 20:28.38 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seems djszapi missed to include manifest |
| 20:28.59 | DocScrutinizer | or that |
| 20:29.00 | MohammadAG | what manifest |
| 20:29.10 | javispedro | but then it was not installable? |
| 20:29.12 | achipa | I didn't put in a manifest |
| 20:29.23 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I installed .deb package built in fremantle sdk which I doubt has manifest file |
| 20:29.28 | lcuk | and it installed/runs correctly |
| 20:29.33 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: indeed browser said "wrong packagin format" OWTTE |
| 20:29.34 | javispedro | lcuk: NO. WAY. |
| 20:29.43 | javispedro | lcuk: no digsigs, so you had to run it as user in developer-mode |
| 20:29.46 | lcuk | javispedro, I have fremantle scratchbox only |
| 20:29.54 | GeneralAntilles | achipa, can you mention to somebody UI-side that it's impossible to tell chat windows apart in the small thumbnail task switcher? |
| 20:29.56 | MohammadAG | python package lcuk? |
| 20:29.57 | lcuk | and just grabbed one of the liqbase .debs I had |
| 20:30.02 | lcuk | no, libliqbase |
| 20:30.03 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: because it depended on a lib you didn't have |
| 20:30.05 | MohammadAG | err, hardfp? |
| 20:30.06 | lcuk | and liqcalendar |
| 20:30.13 | lcuk | idk what harpfp is |
| 20:30.17 | lcuk | hardfp * |
| 20:30.21 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: I think I got that part :-) |
| 20:30.22 | MohammadAG | hardware floating point |
| 20:30.23 | achipa | GeneralAntilles: I can try... |
| 20:30.33 | MohammadAG | no binary from the N900 can run on the N950 afaik |
| 20:30.39 | lcuk | javispedro, idk what dev mode is |
| 20:30.43 | lcuk | i just sshed in as root |
| 20:30.46 | lcuk | and dpkg -i |
| 20:30.56 | mgedmin | dev mode is ON by default on our n950s |
| 20:31.04 | mgedmin | you can go turn it off in Settings, if you dare |
| 20:31.05 | javispedro | not relaxed-exec. |
| 20:31.07 | javispedro | it wasn't of mine. |
| 20:31.10 | javispedro | *on mine. |
| 20:31.11 | lcuk | MohammadAG, well it does |
| 20:31.13 | lcuk | and did |
| 20:31.18 | javispedro | I keep it: NO WAY. |
| 20:31.19 | MohammadAG | it shouldn't |
| 20:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: so is the mc.deb you built available somewhere? |
| 20:31.31 | lcuk | javispedro, *shrug* |
| 20:31.42 | MohammadAG | I second javispedro's saying |
| 20:31.43 | lcuk | what I could *not* do |
| 20:31.49 | achipa | I can upload somewhere |
| 20:31.51 | lcuk | was scp the later inary over the top |
| 20:31.54 | achipa | the .desktop file is prolly broken |
| 20:31.56 | lcuk | binary |
| 20:32.04 | achipa | I really just 1:1 took the maemo sources and compiled |
| 20:32.09 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: I don't need any .desktop :-D |
| 20:32.11 | lcuk | oh I had to move the .desktop file manually |
| 20:32.21 | lcuk | from /usr/share/applications/hildon back a folder |
| 20:32.26 | *** join/#harmattan wazd (~wazd@broadband-95-84-184-69.nationalcablenetworks.ru) |
| 20:32.38 | mgedmin | scratchbox installing ... |
| 20:32.40 | lcuk | will install another app from .deb now |
| 20:32.43 | mgedmin | wants vim! |
| 20:32.46 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: actually I prefer it comes without |
| 20:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 20:33.14 | GeneralAntilles | ctrl-q will quit MeeGoTouch applications, by the way. |
| 20:33.17 | achipa | though if you want to sniff around with this you probably want a manifest... |
| 20:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: :-D see my wiki note on kb shortcuts |
| 20:35.45 | mgedmin | harharharhar |
| 20:35.59 | mgedmin | harmattan sdk installer uses qt and assumes my charset is an ancient Latin-1 |
| 20:36.18 | mgedmin | the embedded terminal window shows malformed localized apt messages |
| 20:36.19 | mgedmin | lame! |
| 20:36.27 | lcuk | ok confirmed, n900 binary .debs install fine for me |
| 20:36.33 | javispedro | lcuk: link. |
| 20:36.35 | lcuk | libliqbase has a few wonks as per usual |
| 20:36.50 | DocScrutinizer | lcuk: but do they RUN? (err does it blend?) |
| 20:36.51 | lcuk | just grab any of mine from maemo |
| 20:36.55 | lcuk | DocScrutinizer, yes |
| 20:37.02 | MohammadAG | impossible |
| 20:37.03 | lcuk | because I am working on calendar |
| 20:37.09 | MohammadAG | hardfp is an ABI break |
| 20:37.12 | DocScrutinizer | well, probably fair enough for cmdline stuff |
| 20:37.20 | lcuk | http://liqbase.net/20110610_002.jpg |
| 20:37.25 | lcuk | n950 is on the left |
| 20:37.26 | MohammadAG | libliqbase is not cmdline |
| 20:37.27 | lcuk | running calendar |
| 20:37.31 | mgedmin | MohammadAG, does it affect apps that do not use floating point? |
| 20:37.39 | lcuk | and I am not skilled enough to install multiple sdks |
| 20:37.45 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, afaik it affects everything |
| 20:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: is harmattan hardfp? |
| 20:37.56 | MohammadAG | yes |
| 20:37.59 | lcuk | i have not touched my scratchbox install in months |
| 20:38.12 | DocScrutinizer | meh, c'mon |
| 20:38.30 | DocScrutinizer | where's a friggin fremantle .deb to install? |
| 20:38.34 | MohammadAG | If MeeGo 1.2 and Harmattan are API compatible (and ABI compatible), it should be hardfp |
| 20:38.34 | lcuk | mehs and goes playing in visual studio |
| 20:38.55 | RST38h | the heretic! |
| 20:39.10 | javispedro | lcuk: http://pastebin.com/HyfVbVLE |
| 20:39.15 | javispedro | and MohammadAG^^ |
| 20:39.45 | lcuk | javispedro, that is osso |
| 20:39.54 | lcuk | different issue |
| 20:40.09 | javispedro | also aegis complaining |
| 20:40.25 | lcuk | doesnt stop it installing though |
| 20:40.37 | lcuk | it got past those and found the dependency |
| 20:40.48 | mgedmin | was aegis _complaining_? |
| 20:40.49 | lcuk | libliqbase can be built without needing osso |
| 20:40.52 | mgedmin | it said it was installing something |
| 20:40.55 | MohammadAG | I'd guess proper installation is $? = 0 |
| 20:40.56 | lcuk | i had to remove the dependency years ago |
| 20:40.59 | mgedmin | checksums for the binaries in the .deb, I assume |
| 20:41.13 | javispedro | mgedmin: no digsigs |
| 20:41.15 | javispedro | exactly |
| 20:41.31 | lcuk | javispedro, there is a screen resolution bug which might show up bug 13084 |
| 20:41.34 | MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink |
| 20:41.49 | mgedmin | oh, hey, are there any tools to see which binaries are signed/checksummed/whatever-it-is-that-aegis-does? |
| 20:41.52 | lcuk | but I worked around that easily by forcing xvideo to use 800*480 |
| 20:41.59 | javispedro | mgedmin: in a package, or in the system? |
| 20:42.11 | mgedmin | I'm thinking a command-line tool |
| 20:42.13 | lcuk | but the point was, fremantle scratchbox built .debs actually install happily |
| 20:42.23 | mgedmin | something e.g. aegis-info /path/to/file |
| 20:42.24 | lcuk | same way as I used to use diablo scratchbox on fremantle |
| 20:42.26 | javispedro | mgedmin: but for the files inside a package, or for all of the files in the system? |
| 20:42.34 | mgedmin | so I can know if I'm allowed to tamper with that file |
| 20:42.35 | MohammadAG | diablo and fremantle were both softfp |
| 20:42.41 | mgedmin | without trying it and bricking my n950 |
| 20:42.45 | lcuk | MohammadAG, well this is softfp then too |
| 20:42.46 | MohammadAG | javispedro, does liqcalendar run? |
| 20:42.54 | javispedro | mgedmin: ah, they are stored in /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist |
| 20:43.09 | mgedmin | how can one distinguish hardfp from softfp? |
| 20:43.12 | javispedro | MohammadAG: libosso.so not found |
| 20:43.19 | mgedmin | anything in /proc/cpuinfo? uname -m? dpkg --print-architecture? |
| 20:43.22 | MohammadAG | lcuk, then how is MeeGo 1.2 hardfp |
| 20:43.39 | javispedro | I've noted anything though; aegis created digsigs for the package. |
| 20:43.45 | javispedro | s/anything/something/ |
| 20:43.52 | lcuk | MohammadAG, I don't know |
| 20:43.57 | lcuk | I build from source on meego proper |
| 20:44.05 | lcuk | as in "make; sudo make install" |
| 20:44.19 | lcuk | i have not managed to wrangle obs enough yet |
| 20:44.28 | lcuk | likes simplicity |
| 20:44.46 | lcuk | i have build-essential on my n950 |
| 20:44.58 | lcuk | I was going to rummage through and use same build commmands on that too |
| 20:45.16 | lcuk | direct .tar.gz source based distribution would be awesome for liq* ;) |
| 20:45.36 | lcuk | simple app running on any device to download/make/make install |
| 20:45.50 | lcuk | and not an autobuilder or complex packager around |
| 20:46.04 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# dpkg -i findutil.deb |
| 20:46.06 | DocScrutinizer | file /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/digsigsums cannot be opened |
| 20:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | No digsigsums file |
| 20:46.09 | DocScrutinizer | Selecting previously deselected package findutils-gnu. |
| 20:46.22 | lcuk | did not think his installing .debs was a big deal |
| 20:46.57 | lcuk | mgedmin, I have learnt a lot since me, you and Gosia were sat in that cafe |
| 20:47.07 | mgedmin | good times, eh? :) |
| 20:47.38 | lcuk | well everytime I think of open source, it is your direct conversation sat there that I think back to |
| 20:47.39 | lcuk | :) |
| 20:47.43 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# find / -name find |
| 20:47.44 | DocScrutinizer | /usr/bin/gnu/find |
| 20:47.46 | mgedmin | help does anybody know perl? |
| 20:47.50 | mgedmin | I don't, any more, apparently |
| 20:48.04 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# /usr/bin/gnu/find --version |
| 20:48.06 | DocScrutinizer | sh: /usr/bin/gnu/find: Operation not permitted |
| 20:48.33 | mgedmin | hm, crap |
| 20:49.05 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# ls -l /usr/bin/gnu/find |
| 20:49.07 | DocScrutinizer | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 Jul 22 22:45 /usr/bin/gnu/find -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/find |
| 20:49.38 | DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# ls -l /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/find |
| 20:49.40 | DocScrutinizer | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 192192 Mar 21 2010 /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/find |
| 20:49.43 | DocScrutinizer | *sigh* |
| 20:49.47 | DocScrutinizer | same as it ever was |
| 20:50.00 | DocScrutinizer | but yes, it installs |
| 20:50.53 | javispedro | aegis shows here the maemo findutils-gnu use setgid&setuid |
| 20:51.02 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, as user it runs |
| 20:51.39 | DocScrutinizer | prolly related to develsh or aegis-mode --relaxed or whatever |
| 20:51.44 | Damion3 | most of the binaries I'be tried were from the n900 |
| 20:51.46 | achipa | generally root is not what you want |
| 20:51.47 | javispedro | I have not enabled it yet |
| 20:51.56 | achipa | think about it as sudo |
| 20:51.58 | achipa | but anyway |
| 20:52.12 | achipa | DocScrutinizer http://www.mediafire.com/?zz9er1wehi8uump |
| 20:52.23 | DocScrutinizer | achipa: I'm usually root when I log in via ssh |
| 20:52.34 | achipa | su - user ? |
| 20:52.40 | javispedro | or aegis-exec -u user -l ;) |
| 20:52.42 | achipa | anyhoo |
| 20:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | that's what I did |
| 20:52.49 | achipa | same thing - almost :) |
| 20:52.56 | achipa | I couldn't be bothered to make a proper manifest |
| 20:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | su - user |
| 20:53.00 | achipa | so ignore the errors |
| 20:53.06 | achipa | start as user |
| 20:53.07 | javispedro | achipa: manifest for what -- what does mc use? |
| 20:53.10 | achipa | and that's it |
| 20:53.39 | achipa | javispedro: nothing. but I made it setuid root. just for kicks |
| 20:53.55 | javispedro | you made the mc binary setuid root, and it _launches_? |
| 20:54.02 | achipa | yep |
| 20:54.13 | TSCHAKeee | it shouldn't, unless you've deliberately relaxed privs |
| 20:54.18 | Damion3 | setuid as an aegis capability or just 4755 ? |
| 20:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 20:54.23 | javispedro | wishes for some of your aegis taming skills |
| 20:54.26 | achipa | didn't say it works ;) |
| 20:54.34 | lcuk | has anybody worked out how come maemo5 .debs work? |
| 20:54.54 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: did find work as user then on N950 then? |
| 20:55.03 | Damion3 | lcuk: I'm not sure why they shouldn't |
| 20:55.03 | achipa | DocScrutinizer: DO start it as user |
| 20:55.03 | mgedmin | ok I've got scratchbox |
| 20:55.21 | javispedro | Damion3: hard vs softfp |
| 20:55.25 | Damion3 | oh I've also used armel debian debs of perl binary libs |
| 20:55.54 | Damion3 | the linux kernel does it soft if your cpu doesn't have hardfp |
| 20:56.22 | javispedro | nope |
| 20:56.29 | Damion3 | that's been normal behaviour for decades |
| 20:56.32 | javispedro | this is abi we're talking about |
| 20:57.39 | achipa | also, for aegis younglings, when launching stuff, check syslog, usually has some enlightening "credential not present" msg here and there |
| 20:58.15 | javispedro | achipa: which most of the time are setuid/setgid, which we are not allowed to request in a manifest |
| 20:58.50 | achipa | technically, it's not that they are not allowed to request... but rather that they don't have the right source... |
| 20:58.51 | Damion3 | surely if libc uses syscalls the kernel can deal, if it's instructions then the kernel can mark as ones to trap on and deal with them. assuming the abi concerns are in what binaries have with their dealins with libc? |
| 20:58.52 | achipa | anyhoo |
| 20:58.58 | javispedro | (not from ""/unknown origin that is) |
| 20:59.04 | achipa | right |
| 20:59.48 | javispedro | considering that there are different sets of requestable privileges in developer-mode unknown origin and "normal" unknown origin, would it be too much asking for setuid/setgid? |
| 20:59.57 | achipa | have fun, off to have fun in the city ! |
| 21:00.06 | javispedro | that way I do not have to patch _all_ of the unix daemons that try to drop its privileges that way. |
| 21:00.43 | DocScrutinizer | FYI (I heard the "ignore the errors" advice :-D) http://paste.debian.net/123820/ |
| 21:01.10 | achipa | i know, I just pasted those from a develsh |
| 21:01.35 | mgedmin | fiferboy, where are you? |
| 21:01.54 | javispedro | Damion3: _calling conventions_. They're different. For floating point arguments at least. |
| 21:02.02 | achipa | javispedro: we misunderstood each other i think |
| 21:02.12 | achipa | I make id setuid root... NOT CAP::setuid |
| 21:02.29 | achipa | s/id/it/ |
| 21:02.36 | achipa | made it |
| 21:02.36 | achipa | duh |
| 21:02.52 | Damion3 | I assume aegis permits having stuff run as user do things like listen on ports under q0w4 |
| 21:03.03 | javispedro | Damion3: surprise!: no. |
| 21:03.07 | javispedro | well |
| 21:03.09 | javispedro | not entirely true |
| 21:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: blue nice mc, as user |
| 21:03.24 | javispedro | that's CAP::net_bind_service |
| 21:03.39 | javispedro | which you can indeed request, but then the usual unix limitations apply. |
| 21:03.57 | Damion3 | you mean you need root too? |
| 21:03.59 | DocScrutinizer | now let's see which directory/file to touch accidentally to make aegis nuke the device ;-) |
| 21:04.02 | javispedro | yes |
| 21:04.17 | Damion3 | actually you could use setcap against the file if the filesystem supports it |
| 21:04.46 | Damion3 | which is usual unix limitations |
| 21:04.47 | javispedro | and to use setcap you need... root. |
| 21:04.59 | Damion3 | well once, at install time |
| 21:05.34 | javispedro | which means you probably also need to request some privileges for the install scripts |
| 21:05.50 | Damion3 | yes, that will be some pain |
| 21:06.55 | DocScrutinizer | LOL /home/developer ?? |
| 21:07.10 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: for MADDE |
| 21:07.13 | Damion3 | do nokia only want everyone to develop lame ass fart apps and other basic gui nonsense? all my projects need root (well what would be root pre aegis days), kernel, and other low level faffage |
| 21:07.17 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 21:07.20 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
| 21:08.17 | Damion3 | h that said, mediatomb for sharing images with my PS3 should work as it listens >1024 |
| 21:10.49 | wazd | javispedro: ping! |
| 21:11.01 | javispedro | wazd: hi! |
| 21:11.18 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: btw, findutils-gnu fails to purge, broken postrm |
| 21:11.23 | wazd | javispedro: heya! :) I'm in the N950 gang too now :P |
| 21:11.28 | wazd | javispedro: http://zhil.in/emus/snes2.svg :) |
| 21:11.33 | javispedro | wazd: yeah, saw you on the list! |
| 21:11.41 | javispedro | ah, great! |
| 21:11.44 | wazd | javispedro: this is for you :P |
| 21:11.51 | javispedro | many thanks :D |
| 21:12.23 | Damion3 | ARG!!! |
| 21:12.27 | wazd | javispedro: maybe we should also update the artwork? |
| 21:12.47 | Damion3 | I fricking use Ctrl-Q quite a lot |
| 21:12.48 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: actually I consider a find that doesn't work as root rather useless tbh |
| 21:13.04 | javispedro | wazd: I will probably entirely redo the interface, and make it more like a "list of found ROMs" in the theme of other harmattan apps (like docs, notes, etc.) |
| 21:13.19 | javispedro | and probably add screenshot for each rom support (from your last save) |
| 21:13.20 | Damion3 | well, to be honest I accidently press Ctrl-S quite a lot |
| 21:13.35 | Damion3 | so... I keep quitting the terminal |
| 21:13.42 | mgedmin | ouch |
| 21:13.45 | mgedmin | ouch ouch ouch |
| 21:13.48 | Damion3 | thank heaven for screen |
| 21:14.00 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: funny enough this find-utils.deb for N900 installs and works on harmattan at all |
| 21:14.07 | mgedmin | meego-terminal annoys me by setting $TERM to linux |
| 21:14.13 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yes, I found it useless too and tried to uninstall it, when I found I cannot. |
| 21:14.24 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:14.30 | mgedmin | I've ancient mutt configs that source ~/.mutt/colors.$TERM |
| 21:14.34 | Damion3 | mgedmin: at least you can change that easily |
| 21:14.37 | mgedmin | all my latest color customizations are in colors.xterm |
| 21:14.50 | javispedro | mgedmin: is it a lie? does it really use linux escape sequences? |
| 21:14.55 | javispedro | mgedmin: you could probably file the bug |
| 21:14.59 | mgedmin | javispedro, that's an extremely good question! |
| 21:15.13 | mgedmin | and the reason why I'm reluctant to just blindly change $TERM to something else |
| 21:15.13 | DocScrutinizer | so how would we get aegis to allow execution of arbitrary stuff as root? |
| 21:16.05 | DocScrutinizer | you'd think somebody @ nokia could create / patch the policy for unknown-origin? |
| 21:16.08 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: only idea: I should make that app that allows creating digsigs for arbitrary executable |
| 21:16.23 | wazd | javispedro: sounds cool :) |
| 21:16.35 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: but it also creates more problems: who will remove the signatures, etc. |
| 21:17.11 | DocScrutinizer | yes, I think this should get fixed in the basic policy applied to all such binaries |
| 21:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | hell, if we could get am abundance of N900 stuff to work on N950 under developermode root, I'd almost be willing to forget there's any aegis for now |
| 21:19.14 | javispedro | try i2c-tools from N900 |
| 21:19.20 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 21:19.30 | DocScrutinizer | but then this definitely needs root :-( |
| 21:19.33 | MohammadAG | javispedro, then edit the postrm :P |
| 21:19.37 | SpeedEvil | hmm |
| 21:19.45 | javispedro | as per the experiments above seems that the dynamic loader will not refuse to load mismatched EABI tags |
| 21:19.51 | SpeedEvil | wonders what happens if you add an 'app' like debian-chroot |
| 21:20.13 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, for your safety and to reduce terrorism, we have disabled that for you |
| 21:20.16 | javispedro | so it means you shall see funny failures if you try to run fremantle floating point apps in harmattan. |
| 21:20.30 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: disaster |
| 21:20.31 | *** join/#harmattan GAN900 (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 21:20.41 | Damion3 | SpeedEvil: there is a thread about this |
| 21:20.56 | Damion3 | aegis does have CAP::sys_chroot |
| 21:20.59 | javispedro | SpeedEvil: from the guy who made the Debian chroot: http://twitter.com/#!/qole |
| 21:21.02 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 21:21.39 | javispedro | you cannot digsig packages that are not on a image that is mounted during boottime |
| 21:21.56 | javispedro | therefore, he cannot run the binaries on the chroot .ext3 image |
| 21:22.00 | Damion3 | I've successfully run x86 binaries with a static qemu-user running ld-linux.so ./x86binary |
| 21:22.10 | Damion3 | but much more stuff works with a chroot |
| 21:22.19 | javispedro | congratulations! you just found how to bypass aegis. |
| 21:22.20 | mgedmin | why couldn't nokia set up proper apt signing for scratchbox repos? |
| 21:22.33 | javispedro | Damion3: x86binary is _never_ mapped with PROT_EXEC, but rather interpreted |
| 21:22.50 | mgedmin | that's the sh ./shellscript.sh equivalent for binaries |
| 21:23.08 | javispedro | and that's why aegis is useless. |
| 21:23.15 | Damion3 | no |
| 21:23.15 | javispedro | at least, the stupid stock policy. |
| 21:23.53 | Damion3 | because that binary when interpreted still uses ENTER to make natively run syscalls which are subject to aegis |
| 21:23.57 | DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA ROTFL |
| 21:24.32 | javispedro | Damion3: but it _RUNS_ despite being unsigned, and forbidding that is for some reason stock aegis policy. |
| 21:24.34 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, now for good: bbl |
| 21:25.08 | Damion3 | I never bothered compiling xsetkbd for arm using my qemu trick to set Ctrl to be sticky |
| 21:25.28 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 21:25.37 | SpeedEvil | What happens if you run a program under gdb? |
| 21:25.48 | javispedro | (note: if you want to run unsigned binaries as user, --relaxed-exec still works pretty well for that) |
| 21:25.51 | Damion3 | javispedro: also obviously qemu the arm binary still needs to be given exec ability |
| 21:26.51 | Damion3 | hmm, you could do it once for a copy of /lib/ld-linux.so and yes use the binary version of sh ./binary :) |
| 21:27.09 | javispedro | that's not entirely true |
| 21:27.25 | javispedro | the dynamic loader _will_ of course mmap pages with PROT_EXEC, and aegis will catch that. |
| 21:27.32 | Damion3 | mm ahha |
| 21:27.46 | Damion3 | that's why noexec on mount stops that trick |
| 21:27.48 | javispedro | it is qemu the only one that will NOT mmap external, foreign architecture executable pages as PROT_EXEC (what for? it's not going to jump to them) |
| 21:27.52 | Damion3 | indeedn |
| 21:30.09 | javispedro | (not: qemu might very well do, for lazyness reasons, but it needn't...) |
| 21:30.13 | javispedro | s/not/note |
| 21:31.30 | mgedmin | ooh, interesting |
| 21:32.03 | Damion3 | mistak |
| 21:32.14 | Damion3 | s/tak/take |
| 21:32.17 | Damion3 | s/tak/take/ |
| 21:32.29 | Damion3 | ahh, the lack of trailing slash |
| 21:32.34 | javispedro | sighs |
| 21:32.54 | javispedro | It's a tradition for me to skip the trailing slash, I do not want infobot to actually spam the channel |
| 21:33.03 | Damion3 | hh |
| 21:33.23 | Damion3 | gah the screensaver took my a |
| 21:35.35 | javispedro | now I am _really_ interested in usb hos |
| 21:35.36 | javispedro | t |
| 21:36.20 | javispedro | I bought one of those newfangled livescribe pens and hte protocol is standard OBEX. I already made a QGraphicsView app that shows the stuff I wrote on the starter notebook's first page =) |
| 21:36.38 | javispedro | (OBEX over USB CDC, ofc) |
| 21:39.38 | Damion3 | do the n950 and n9 have the same issues as n900? |
| 21:40.12 | Damion3 | unbeliveable complex kludgy kernel hacks making the h/ware sort of work? |
| 21:40.14 | javispedro | they might have less problems, but without schematic we do not know. and usb host is disabled from kernel |
| 21:40.36 | Damion3 | oh, it might be slightly better? hmm useful |
| 21:40.50 | javispedro | no, not saying that: more like "nfi". |
| 21:40.55 | Damion3 | I noticed them boasting about the otg/host stuff on the n8 video |
| 21:42.05 | Damion3 | I have a usb one time password device that would be handy to use on the phone |
| 21:42.57 | Damion3 | just hidkbd |
| 21:43.29 | javispedro | ponders that enabling support for random usb devices is probably a nogo for devices as the attack surface area would exponentially increase |
| 21:43.36 | javispedro | s/for devices/for aegis |
| 21:46.58 | Damion3 | wouldn't a lot of these issues be a bit of a non-issue if we simply got it working in relaxed/disabled/open aegis mode and then handed it to nokia to sign and make it all packaged and official? |
| 21:47.30 | javispedro | that's why I am saying it's very likely a nogo |
| 21:47.54 | javispedro | usb host means lots of kernel LoCs, and would make aegis easily breakable, even in closed mode. |
| 21:47.55 | Damion3 | you don't think they'd like this? |
| 21:48.00 | Damion3 | ahh |
| 21:48.36 | Damion3 | a few stock types like hid, storage, would do |
| 21:48.54 | Damion3 | that wouldn't help you though :) |
| 21:49.12 | javispedro | oh, cdc is enough for me. |
| 21:49.30 | javispedro | cdc = all network cards, modems, and serial to usb converters. not a small group... |
| 21:49.35 | Damion3 | by the way does everyone's keyboard LEDs flicker all the time? |
| 21:49.47 | crevetor | Damion3: nope |
| 21:49.55 | Damion3 | hmm |
| 21:50.06 | crevetor | At some point mine didn't work at all |
| 21:50.13 | crevetor | it worked after rebooting the device |
| 21:50.29 | Damion3 | it looks like it's showing network traffic or some other indicator |
| 21:50.48 | Damion3 | ie not a h/ware bug but some special mode for debugging |
| 21:51.28 | Damion3 | somebody has says that as I'm able to echo 0 to the security stuff to disable aegis, this might be sone r&d version |
| 21:53.49 | javispedro | validator-init seals those values in my device |
| 22:09.24 | mgedmin | where do I find libfribidi-dev? |
| 22:10.20 | javispedro | why, oh, why is the N950 video player slow decoding 480p h264? |
| 22:10.40 | javispedro | I mean, awesome screen, and I can only watch videos at a lower resolution that what the N900 is capable of. |
| 22:10.52 | lcuk | javispedro, are you sure it is decoding, or xvideo mode used |
| 22:11.07 | lcuk | i notice that liqbase appears to be being composited |
| 22:11.13 | javispedro | yes! I also suspect that |
| 22:11.19 | lcuk | and in doing so has to go through a yuv->rgb conversion |
| 22:11.20 | *** join/#harmattan Scifig (c00c4efa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.12.78.250) |
| 22:11.28 | mgedmin | iirc the n9 coming soon page claimed it was able to do 720p video |
| 22:11.48 | javispedro | mgedmin: try it. I can only do 360p video. |
| 22:11.54 | javispedro | (h264) |
| 22:12.29 | lcuk | hang on |
| 22:12.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | Damion3: (kbd flicker) I noticed it for a sub-second period one time. Looks like N900 R+D mode |
| 22:12.42 | lcuk | liqbase is not being composited |
| 22:12.44 | mgedmin | my n950 can play the 9 trailer from my n900 fine; I don't have any better-quality videos in easy reach |
| 22:12.44 | javispedro | I have some trailer here which is _exactly_ 854x480, and it plays sloooooooooowly. |
| 22:12.48 | lcuk | it just runs poorly |
| 22:13.11 | lcuk | sintel_trailer does not play |
| 22:13.14 | lcuk | it is .ogv |
| 22:13.24 | javispedro | nah, no theora yet |
| 22:13.29 | javispedro | neither on8 |
| 22:13.36 | javispedro | thank the gods we have vorbis |
| 22:13.44 | javispedro | (and I thank them very, very much for that) |
| 22:20.06 | GeneralAntilles | Where are the wallpapers stored? |
| 22:23.23 | rm_you | where is MUSIC stored? i put an m3u and a pls in MyDocs/Music and the player didn't find either of them |
| 22:23.44 | GeneralAntilles | WFM |
| 22:23.53 | GeneralAntilles | Well, with some .mp4 |
| 22:27.35 | npm | ~/MyDocs/Music : -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 74681773 Jul 18 17:33 RA268_110718_Ed-Davenport-residentadvisor.net.mp3 |
| 22:27.52 | *** join/#harmattan epage (~epage@adsl-99-62-39-105.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:27.52 | mgedmin | rm_you, I bluetooth'ed some mp3 files, they ended up in ~/MyDocs/.sounds/ |
| 22:27.55 | npm | playing now. finally, meego that plays mp3s out of the box |
| 22:28.09 | mgedmin | npm, didn't you hear? it's not meego :) |
| 22:28.26 | npm | yes, i have a sense of humor |
| 22:29.17 | rm_you | hrmrm |
| 22:30.00 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 22:30.24 | MohammadAG | any QML experts around? |
| 22:31.34 | npm | i was hoping those little holes on the side of the display part was some kind of special loudspeaker.. |
| 22:31.37 | npm | what are they? |
| 22:31.58 | javispedro | they are a speakr |
| 22:32.29 | javispedro | but only for voice calls as far as I can see. |
| 22:32.50 | npm | oh! |
| 22:32.52 | MohammadAG | Got an idea, but I'm not sure if QtMobility requires C++ bindings in QML |
| 22:32.52 | epage | MohammadAG: I'm a QML beginner myself but I'd be curious what your question if nothing else to provide more areas for me to learn |
| 22:33.32 | npm | MohammadAG: some parts of qtmobility are interfaced, others aren't |
| 22:33.50 | MohammadAG | Microphone access |
| 22:34.52 | npm | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:35.51 | npm | qt-mobility-opensource-src-1.2.0/examples/audiorecorder/main.cpp |
| 22:35.59 | npm | are good places to start |
| 22:36.30 | rm_you | what is the resolution of this display? is it really 720p? it doesn't seem like that's probable, so are we expecting it to downscale that to 480p? |
| 22:36.31 | MohammadAG | qml? |
| 22:36.41 | javispedro | rm_you: obviously |
| 22:36.45 | javispedro | rm_you: resolution is 854x480 btw |
| 22:36.50 | javispedro | on N9 it will be lower |
| 22:37.05 | mgedmin | eh? I thought it was the same |
| 22:37.11 | mgedmin | the screen size in inches is a bit smaller |
| 22:37.18 | javispedro | N9 uses PenTile |
| 22:37.18 | mgedmin | thus making the ppi higher |
| 22:37.27 | MohammadAG | wtf? |
| 22:37.31 | mgedmin | which means...? |
| 22:37.39 | javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile#PenTile_RGBG |
| 22:37.44 | javispedro | read both that and controversy section |
| 22:37.48 | GAN900 | bullshit pixel counting |
| 22:37.54 | mgedmin | I remember an admonition saying "do not use 1-pixel-wide lines in text or graphics" because of the N9's AMOLED display |
| 22:38.09 | javispedro | it's because it is PenTile, not any AMOLED limitation perse. |
| 22:38.38 | SpeedEvil | It's because a pixel is only a pixel, not three as in the case of most |
| 22:38.39 | mgedmin | interesting |
| 22:38.47 | npm | there's no "recording" in qtmobility QML http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/qml-multimedia.html |
| 22:38.48 | GAN900 | Most AMOLEDs that are out there are PenTile, though. |
| 22:38.50 | npm | ^^ MohammadAG |
| 22:38.54 | MohammadAG | why is it pentile? |
| 22:38.59 | javispedro | MohammadAG: cheap |
| 22:39.01 | javispedro | *er |
| 22:39.07 | MohammadAG | lol |
| 22:39.26 | MohammadAG | well the N9's screen is expensive as is |
| 22:39.28 | MohammadAG | thanks to swipe |
| 22:39.42 | MohammadAG | npm, C++ it is, easier for me I guess |
| 22:39.57 | SpeedEvil | I question the curve adds much if you buy Lots |
| 22:39.57 | MohammadAG | second question, call C++ methods directly or using signals/slots? |
| 22:40.32 | npm | fortunately, adding C++ stuff from qtmobility is pretty easy... i went through a lot of handwringing about using pyside to get this in http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego but C++ is so easy to add into QML that it's easier to skip python... already got QML anyways |
| 22:41.11 | MohammadAG | I dislike python |
| 22:41.16 | mgedmin | why? |
| 22:41.26 | npm | by the way if anybody wants to help on the above, it's open source and it's meego, and the n950 camera will be the best Youtube direct source yet |
| 22:41.27 | MohammadAG | Too slow imo |
| 22:42.58 | GAN900 | Portrait vkb ism't the world's worst feature but I wish it didn't cost so much. |
| 22:43.18 | epage | Performance all depends on the app. The place I probably get burned the most by python is start up time |
| 22:43.34 | MohammadAG | exactly |
| 22:43.38 | mgedmin | hey, seriously, where do I get libfribidi-dev for harmattan? |
| 22:43.47 | mgedmin | AFAICT libfribidi0 is preinstalled on a n950 |
| 22:44.12 | npm | i've been a long time non-fan of python: http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1994q2/1006.html :-) |
| 22:44.42 | npm | but i will admit to writing in it, and wishing i was using a better language (like lisp, or even javascript) |
| 22:45.27 | epage | I tried learnign javascript, drove me nuts. I'm curious in what way you prefer it? |
| 22:45.27 | mgedmin | oookay |
| 22:45.43 | javispedro | mgedmin: not on mine |
| 22:45.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | the little holes at side of screen are the stereo mics |
| 22:45.54 | mgedmin | (seriously, javascript???? javascript??????) |
| 22:46.23 | npm | you have to use the rigth parts of javascript http://www.amazon.com/JavaScript-Good-Parts-Douglas-Crockford/dp/0596517742 |
| 22:46.36 | mgedmin | never mind, I'm sure you can find criteria according to which js is better than python (e.g. better modern JIT compilers) |
| 22:46.48 | npm | (i don't have the book, but i already use the bood parts of javascript...) |
| 22:46.51 | epage | Mm I sure wish I had access to those jits in python |
| 22:47.01 | mgedmin | pypy is slowly getting there |
| 22:47.14 | epage | I |
| 22:47.15 | npm | see http://code.google.com/p/qtzibit/ for an example of "modern javascript" |
| 22:47.28 | npm | s/bood/good |
| 22:47.40 | npm | re [15:46] <npm> (i don't have the book, but i already use the bood parts of javascript...) |
| 22:48.02 | epage | I've heard how they've reduced memory usage relative to themselves but I'm waiting for pypy to add a memory benchmark to their benchmark site (and I can't tell which of their benchmarks might cover startup time but that is another important one) |
| 22:48.03 | mgedmin | anybody with a harmattan scratchbox here? |
| 22:48.15 | npm | i have a feeling that javascript runs faster in qtwebkit than qml |
| 22:48.32 | javispedro | npm: i think it's true |
| 22:48.35 | javispedro | qml used jscore |
| 22:48.37 | mgedmin | are there any useful apt sources I ought to add? |
| 22:48.58 | javispedro | while qtwebkit probably uses squirrel or some of the newer ones |
| 22:49.08 | mgedmin | I've harmattan/sdk in there; libfribidi-dev is not there... |
| 22:49.22 | javispedro | mgedmin: I do not have fribidi on the device |
| 22:49.27 | npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit-youtube.png seems to process 388 youtube feeds faster than say qmltube |
| 22:49.31 | mgedmin | oh? curious! |
| 22:49.37 | npm | and only took a page of code to write :-) |
| 22:49.40 | javispedro | mgedmin: therefore, you are from now on the maintainer of libfribidi for harmattan. |
| 22:49.50 | mgedmin | oh! I got it from fiferboy's repo along with fbreader! |
| 22:49.52 | mgedmin | duh |
| 22:49.57 | javispedro | dang it! ;) |
| 22:50.02 | mgedmin | s/repo/web page/ |
| 22:50.28 | mgedmin | cringes waiting for infobot to butt in, then relaxes after realizing his 'duh' saved everyone from the interruption |
| 22:51.29 | npm | i have no idea why i'm listening to this on these tiny Finnish speakers when i have much better Finnish ones nearby .. i guess it's the novelty of it :-) |
| 22:51.43 | npm | (and they're not Nokia's) |
| 22:52.48 | javispedro | lols at "Because Nokia employees can't sign Google's contributor's agreement, this isn't going to happen." |
| 22:52.58 | mgedmin | oh, I'll cheat and download http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/packages/libfribidi0_0.10.4-6_armel.deb instead of building it myself |
| 22:53.15 | mgedmin | javispedro, context? |
| 22:53.19 | javispedro | https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-13186 |
| 22:53.53 | rm_you | LOL yeah 720p h264 does not work AT ALL. |
| 22:53.54 | rm_you | T_T |
| 22:53.58 | rm_you | need to get mplayer compiled |
| 22:54.05 | mgedmin | yay mplayer |
| 22:54.05 | rm_you | ... working on it... |
| 22:54.06 | javispedro | mplayer will work even worse |
| 22:54.10 | mgedmin | I want to listen to internet radio |
| 22:54.19 | mgedmin | the laptop that was connected to our large office speakers kind of died |
| 22:54.25 | mgedmin | well, it didn't die, but its sound card did |
| 22:54.42 | mgedmin | so I've been plugging my n950 to the speakers and wishing it could stream internet radio |
| 22:54.56 | npm | use your n950... i'm rockin my 950 instead of http://www.genelec.com/ (nice job nokia sounds great) |
| 22:55.28 | rm_you | mgedmin: it can |
| 22:55.45 | rm_you | mgedmin: if you download a playlist from somewhere and run it from transfers, it will play (like di.fm etc) |
| 22:57.48 | mgedmin | ah, interesting |
| 22:58.07 | mgedmin | somebody told me the other day on IRC that the media player on the n950 didn't support that |
| 22:58.37 | rm_you | i have not yet figured out how to get the music player to actually SEE the playlist files and play them once they're downloaded though, nor can i figure out how to actually browse the filesystem and launch the playlists from outside of the transfers winfow |
| 22:58.38 | rm_you | *window |
| 22:58.41 | MohammadAG | you do realize the N950 uses MafwRenderer |
| 22:58.52 | rm_you | javispedro: why will mplayer work worse? |
| 22:58.57 | MohammadAG | so it should do what the N900 can do and more |
| 22:59.01 | javispedro | rm_you: no dsp codecs |
| 22:59.06 | rm_you | javispedro: :/ |
| 22:59.27 | javispedro | and whatever is causing the stock media player to be slowed down will also cause mplayer to slow down |
| 22:59.55 | rm_you | :( |
| 23:00.05 | MohammadAG | I wonder if this is ala PR1.1 |
| 23:00.14 | npm | how do you invoke playbin on n950? gst-launch seems missing |
| 23:00.19 | MohammadAG | where even fullscreen windows were composited |
| 23:00.23 | javispedro | MohammadAG: nah, drnoksnes gets 400fps |
| 23:00.30 | MohammadAG | install gst-launch |
| 23:00.38 | npm | otherwise can't you just give gst-launch -v playbin 'uri= ...' and thats it |
| 23:00.43 | MohammadAG | oh, interesting |
| 23:01.43 | rm_you | umm, how do I get svn installed in scratchbox? |
| 23:01.46 | rm_you | >_> |
| 23:02.29 | npm | i have an alternate theory on video playback. aegis is blocing access to video HW, and someone forgot to add <credential name="GRP::video" /> to the video player ? |
| 23:02.39 | javispedro | that would be so stupid |
| 23:02.51 | mgedmin | also, funny |
| 23:02.54 | MohammadAG | doubt it |
| 23:03.05 | javispedro | for a change I am not even going to check it, I still have some trust in Nokia :) |
| 23:03.06 | npm | that caused my http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port to give a black screen |
| 23:03.09 | npm | until i fixed it |
| 23:03.24 | MohammadAG | I mean, mafw bails when it can't handle errors |
| 23:03.28 | rm_you | <rm_you> umm, how do I get svn installed in scratchbox? |
| 23:03.30 | npm | by adding the aegis file |
| 23:03.34 | npm | w/ right settings |
| 23:03.54 | npm | actually it was bailing with random stupid messages that had nothing to do with it |
| 23:04.03 | javispedro | rm_you: change scratchbox target settings and add the svn devkit |
| 23:04.17 | rm_you | 10974 1 user S < 135m 13.6 14.1 /usr/bin/qmafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/qmafw-plugin/libqmafw-gst-renderer-plugin.so |
| 23:04.26 | rm_you | the video is lagging |
| 23:04.45 | rm_you | and it is only use 14% CPU (using the dsp for decoding it seems) |
| 23:04.49 | *** part/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 23:05.25 | npm | there's also GRP::pulse-access ... so i'm wondering if that needs to be granted in order to get pulse to run in realtime mode? (which could be a security issue as you could DOS the device) |
| 23:05.38 | npm | that could also cause performance issues |
| 23:05.51 | npm | i'll be looking into that next round of hax |
| 23:06.00 | rm_you | javispedro: how? |
| 23:06.04 | mgedmin | so far went the easier way by running svn/git/whatever from outside scratchbox, with a ~/scratchbox -> /scratchbox/users/mg/home/mg symlink for convenience |
| 23:06.21 | javispedro | rm_you: sb-menu ... blablabla |
| 23:06.49 | rm_you | yes but |
| 23:06.50 | npm | https://www.nixuopen.org/blog/2010/11/developing-for-meego-part-3/ is a helpful read |
| 23:06.53 | rm_you | from there what |
| 23:06.53 | javispedro | npm: audio is fine. also, you'd be surprised at how pulse is confirued. |
| 23:07.01 | javispedro | *configured |
| 23:07.28 | npm | actually i'm never surprised at how pulse is configured :-) (gum, bailing wire..) |
| 23:07.30 | rm_you | it said Devkit is installed in both |
| 23:08.12 | npm | i'm sure if you google for "pulseaudio" and "waste of batteries" you'll find one of my flames :-) |
| 23:08.26 | mgedmin | waaaaugh fiferboy did not upload a libfreebidi-dev deb, only the main libfreebidi0 deb |
| 23:08.35 | mgedmin | I've to compile freebidi from scratch apparently |
| 23:08.55 | mgedmin | is unhappy with people who don't distribute the source packages next to the binaries they've built |
| 23:09.11 | npm | javispedro: audio is fine in that it works. but i'm not sure what causes the glitching of video. since video w/o audio didn't glitch |
| 23:09.37 | npm | pulseaudio usually pulls the rug out of just about everything, esp on a uniprocessor and running in realtime mode |
| 23:09.47 | rm_you | GAH GIVE ME SVN $(*#%&)#(^%* |
| 23:10.25 | MohammadAG | GAH GIVE ME SVN $(*#%&)#(^%*: Operation not permitted |
| 23:10.26 | npm | yeah, i'm suprised at how quickly svn became second rate supported |
| 23:10.58 | rm_you | but seriously |
| 23:11.15 | rm_you | javispedro: there is no option i see in sb-menu where the end result will be me having SVN |
| 23:11.30 | javispedro | you need to edit the target |
| 23:12.04 | kimju | you can always run svn outside sb, even within the sb directories.. |
| 23:12.15 | javispedro | a bit hard to explain and atm I'm trying to beat ovi suite into installing my maps |
| 23:13.03 | rm_you | javispedro: yeah tried every option and no luck |
| 23:17.08 | npm | accli -p `pgrep qmafw-dbus-wrapper` -I |
| 23:17.32 | npm | returns interesting results... and GRP::video is set |
| 23:17.42 | npm | accli -p `pgrep music-suite` -I |
| 23:18.20 | npm | accli -p `pgrep pulseaudio` -I is only one w/ GRP::pulse so i assume only pulseaudio needs that setting |
| 23:20.03 | npm | but that's different than "GRP::pulse-access" |
| 23:20.22 | npm | maybe that's for apps that need to be able to reconfig pulseaudio routing, etc |
| 23:20.56 | javispedro | curses, no maps for me today |
| 23:23.37 | mgedmin | ok, I've got fbreader binaries, but no debds |
| 23:23.41 | mgedmin | s/debds/debs |
| 23:23.51 | mgedmin | how do I build debs? where's fiferboy when you need him? |
| 23:24.10 | npm | qtcreator? |
| 23:24.31 | mgedmin | scratchbox |
| 23:24.57 | npm | clueless question. so what am i missing out on using qtcreator. it works for me. |
| 23:25.26 | mgedmin | qtcreator is awesome |
| 23:25.26 | npm | using the Harmattan QtSDK 1.1.2 |
| 23:26.30 | npm | ok, so if i'm all good w/ qtcreator then i'm not missing out on anything other than haxor boasting :-) (actually i use emacs -- but qtcreator is smart enough to know when i edited files externally) |
| 23:27.27 | mgedmin | thing is, when you've got a project with an existing make-based build system, how do you feed it to qt creator? |
| 23:27.41 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok |
| 23:27.45 | mgedmin | I assumed scratchbox would be simpler, since fiferboy already succeeded building fbreader in scratchbox |
| 23:28.34 | DocScrutinizer | lightning killed a modemrouter of a customer, it's always the same: deaf on the 600R-line |
| 23:29.52 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder why those modemrouters (and generally modems) can't have proper OVP |
| 23:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | to ge back on topic: It's kinda nasty on fremantle ICD doesn't realize the WLAN is no working connection to internet. So it sits there on this fsckdup WLAN for hours while GPRS would work just fine |
| 23:32.11 | DocScrutinizer | I gather that'S all the same on harmattan, though not yet tested. Should finally get fixed |
| 23:32.45 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in the connection, I'm interested in the working route to */0 |
| 23:33.14 | DocScrutinizer | I.E. forget the WLAN when it doesn't ping |
| 23:33.33 | DocScrutinizer | might become an app |
| 23:36.54 | mgedmin | um, why is qt creator trying to use ccache? |
| 23:36.55 | DocScrutinizer | especially with this "connect to all open WLANs" option/app the chance to frequently pick zombies is real. So it shouldn't pick "open WLAN" but "working internet connection WLAN" |
| 23:37.57 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, http://wiki.maemo.org/mohammad7410:Packaging |
| 23:38.17 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: still no change in status? |
| 23:38.26 | mgedmin | MohammadAG, "There is currently no text in this page" |
| 23:38.44 | MohammadAG | mgedmin, sec |
| 23:38.53 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, nope, 16 days |
| 23:38.57 | DocScrutinizer | :-( |
| 23:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | pondering to send you mine :-D |
| 23:39.19 | DocScrutinizer | I might be thru with it in a few days |
| 23:40.57 | MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mohammad7410/Packaging mgedmin |
| 23:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | otoh I'm really worried about every decent devel now fighting uphill for harmattan, while fremantle dies a sudden death |
| 23:41.11 | MohammadAG | I'm not sure if it makes sense, it's just how I understand packaging |
| 23:41.28 | mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, don't worry, it won't be sudden |
| 23:41.33 | mgedmin | it'll be slow and lingering |
| 23:41.51 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, heh, I emailed ddp.program the other day, they gave me a standard answer |
| 23:41.57 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, just deprivation of nourishing is sudden |
| 23:42.00 | MohammadAG | nah, not leaving the N900 |
| 23:42.04 | MohammadAG | it's too awesome |
| 23:42.45 | MohammadAG | I mean, if egoshin upgrades our N900s to 1GB RAM and 1GHz of storage, I'll be happy |
| 23:42.55 | MohammadAG | oh wait |
| 23:43.02 | MohammadAG | abill_uk, not egoshin, sorry |
| 23:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | even I got completely distracted from jonwil and his awesome work for fremantle, and his SMSCB efforts |
| 23:43.22 | mgedmin | MohammadAG, thing is, fbreader consists of maybe five debian packages and has its own crazy/insane build system for them... |
| 23:43.32 | DocScrutinizer | blueled might be capable to actually do it :-) |
| 23:43.47 | mgedmin | Maemo 5 on the n950 hardware would be awesome... |
| 23:43.57 | MohammadAG | stfu there can only be one engineer |
| 23:44.01 | MohammadAG | and he's abill_uk |
| 23:44.08 | DocScrutinizer | I mean, he had the first working maemo phone ever |
| 23:45.10 | mgedmin | realizes that having ccache is actually a Good Idea and apt-get installs it |
| 23:45.15 | DocScrutinizer | sorry, I can't help it, I must post the link, it's just TOO AWESOME! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 |
| 23:48.42 | mgedmin | oookay, gcc used by Madde uses a different ELF/.o format and can't talk to gcc I've got in scratchbox HARMATTAN_ARMEL target |
| 23:48.43 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you're just jealous of abill_uk, admit it |
| 23:49.00 | mgedmin | I think I saw instructions for setting up a scratchbox backend in qt creator somewhere... |
| 23:49.28 | mgedmin | gives up and goes to sleep |
| 23:49.32 | DocScrutinizer | sure, he has so many fans, and I'm just the ranting fart everybody loves to hate :-D |
| 23:50.10 | DocScrutinizer | how could anybody not be jealous of un_abill |
| 23:50.38 | DocScrutinizer | btw has his recent ban expired on tmo? |
| 23:53.24 | DocScrutinizer | duh, wasn't there a whole class-c net I banned on #maemo to stop pupnik |
| 23:53.47 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, any status updates on hen950 |
| 23:53.47 | MohammadAG | holy, umm, shit |
| 23:53.48 | MohammadAG | that is awesome |
| 23:54.25 | javispedro | yes, abill_uk has been rambling on some thread about how the only future of maemo.org is to hit any Nokia employee with a shovel for an undeterminated amount of hours to suck the source code out of him |
| 23:55.07 | javispedro | *undetermined, etc. |
| 23:55.20 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 23:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nope - update=aegis sucks donkey balls |
| 23:56.05 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: have you tried again with kernel? |
| 23:56.11 | javispedro | nope |
| 23:56.19 | javispedro | sts keeps probably knows |
| 23:56.25 | MohammadAG | I'm actually surprised no Nokia employee risked his job and his future employment chances to leak source code |
| 23:56.42 | DocScrutinizer | err yup |
| 23:56.47 | SpeedEvil | s/Nok/ex-Nok/ |
| 23:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | even more, yes |
| 23:57.45 | DocScrutinizer | though with aegis all the sourcecode might turn out to be completely useless in the end |
| 23:57.45 | javispedro | we have all of aegis sourcecode |
| 23:57.55 | MohammadAG | not if you get the keys |
| 23:58.06 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, Nokia's rootcert |
| 23:58.25 | DocScrutinizer | that'd be a read revelation |
| 23:58.34 | DocScrutinizer | real* |
| 23:59.21 | TSCHAKeee | I'm ultimately curious |
| 23:59.29 | TSCHAKeee | if it will be possible to reflash the N9 with a different OS? |
| 23:59.36 | DocScrutinizer | I gues that one is on a massive gold CD under Elop's cushion |
| 23:59.55 | DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: Stskeeps tries to do that |
