| 00:00.35 | ieatlint | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:01.29 | SpeedEvil | really wants 5kWh or so for solar. |
| 00:20.17 | GeneralAntilles | ieatlint, microsims? |
| 00:20.18 | GeneralAntilles | They must. |
| 00:20.21 | GeneralAntilles | iPhone 4 |
| 00:20.58 | ieatlint | no iphone4 on tmobile here |
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| 00:59.47 | GeneralAntilles | OK, planning out all of these features is bullshit. |
| 00:59.55 | GeneralAntilles | Focus on the core, get it working, then add the bullshit. |
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| 02:26.52 | *** join/#harmattan DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 03:36.03 | rm_you | why does anyone need microsim? |
| 03:36.10 | rm_you | n950 is specifically NOT microsim :P |
| 03:36.35 | rm_you | and yes it required a knife to pop off the SIM cover, and no, the directions simply say to use your fingernail to pull it out >_> |
| 03:41.16 | hiemanshu | rm_you: you needed a knife? 0_0 |
| 03:41.24 | hiemanshu | rm_you: and yeah, its a minisim, and not microsim |
| 03:41.50 | rm_you | umm |
| 03:42.05 | rm_you | i have the same normal fullsize sim i've had for the past 8 years |
| 03:42.15 | rm_you | it's not micro/mini/anything AFAICT? |
| 03:42.39 | rm_you | unless every SIM is a minisim |
| 03:43.28 | hiemanshu | rm_you: normal sim is size of a credit card |
| 03:43.32 | hiemanshu | current sims are minisims |
| 03:43.39 | hiemanshu | iPhone 4 sized sims are microsims |
| 03:43.45 | rm_you | ah lol |
| 03:43.47 | rm_you | k |
| 03:43.54 | rm_you | never heard them referred to as minisims |
| 03:43.57 | rm_you | before today |
| 03:44.26 | hiemanshu | well they are usually just called SIMs |
| 03:44.42 | hiemanshu | since the older normal sims are very very old now, maybe back in the late 90s |
| 04:23.08 | dm8tbr | has a working phone that takes regular SIMs :-p |
| 04:23.10 | DocScrutinizer | well, my sim cover pops open easily by pushing it towards screen. Not by levering with any knife or sth |
| 04:23.19 | dm8tbr | I don't use it though |
| 04:23.34 | dm8tbr | Siemens P1 ftw |
| 04:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | moto 620 :-) |
| 04:25.37 | DocScrutinizer | my first phone though been Nokia 2110 and I had to cut a normal sim to mini for it |
| 04:26.13 | DocScrutinizer | telekom had no miniSIM at that time |
| 04:26.32 | dm8tbr | hehe |
| 04:26.33 | ieatlint | some phones require microsims |
| 04:26.43 | dm8tbr | like the N9 |
| 04:27.16 | dm8tbr | nokia 1610 took full size sims too |
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| 04:38.56 | khertan | rm_you, press and hold while you are on the task manager, and you can close apps |
| 04:39.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | or use ctrl-Q |
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| 05:12.41 | *** join/#harmattan npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-30-220.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 05:14.00 | npm | anybody have suggestions for why videos come up blank for http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_0_6_armel.deb with error "'Warning: "No decoder available for type 'video/x-flash-video, pixel-aspect-ratio=(fraction)1/1, width=(int)400, height=(int)220, framerate=(fraction)25/1'." '' ... but sound plays.... and app works otherwise |
| 05:14.49 | npm | (see http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port for source/etc) |
| 05:15.44 | npm | also, a different program complains about the binary itself: Aegis rejecting /home/developer/qtzibit_0_0_1_armel.deb: opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit not installed by the package |
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| 05:16.53 | npm | how do i tell qtcreator that the binary it is installing is the applicatuon that it's supposed to be installing :-) |
| 05:17.52 | npm | if I solve this, it'll be a good first day with the n950 -- two apps ported |
| 05:19.47 | npm | the latter being http://code.google.com/p/qtzibit/ ... which creates this http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit-youtube.png from this http://qtzibit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/exhibit/src/webapp/examples/YouTube/YouTube.html |
| 05:20.32 | djszapi_ | npm: what do you mean ? |
| 05:21.05 | djszapi_ | if you make a package and then install it on the device, it should work. |
| 05:23.06 | djszapi_ | Does c-obs load anything for anybody ? |
| 05:23.11 | djszapi_ | https://build.pub.meego.com/ |
| 05:23.37 | npm | it should work, but it gives that error from aegis, then aegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected |
| 05:23.37 | ieatlint | if you do more than a standard application model you might run into weirdness |
| 05:23.49 | ieatlint | for instance, if you project has two executables.. |
| 05:23.58 | antman8969 | npm I had that problem too |
| 05:24.00 | ieatlint | speaking speculatively here |
| 05:24.06 | npm | just one executable |
| 05:24.18 | antman8969 | the fix lies in the deployment.pri I think |
| 05:24.38 | ieatlint | oh, i see, two apps |
| 05:24.39 | antman8969 | I ended up taking the easy way out and making a new project and porting into the new project |
| 05:24.48 | ieatlint | yeah, you're deployment be screwed |
| 05:24.55 | npm | but there's a lot of stuff in there... it was puking on every shell script and python file from simile-widgets.org/exhibit which qtzibit subsumes |
| 05:25.06 | djszapi_ | npm: try to make a package from command line. Let us see whether creator bug. |
| 05:25.17 | npm | i even renamed the shell script to .txt and it still didn't like it |
| 05:25.26 | npm | had to move the #!/bin/sh down a few lines |
| 05:25.26 | ieatlint | i'll note that m.youtube.com works very well on the n950 though |
| 05:25.27 | npm | :-) |
| 05:25.32 | ieatlint | (without flash) |
| 05:25.36 | antman8969 | lol yea, but html5 doesnt :( |
| 05:25.36 | djszapi_ | since html5... |
| 05:25.48 | djszapi_ | antman8969: yes, it does. |
| 05:26.05 | antman8969 | I opted into the youtube html5, but only audio plays |
| 05:26.05 | npm | yes m.youtube.com works so the next step is i'm going to drop in the parameter to tell youtube api to only give mobile vids |
| 05:26.20 | djszapi_ | antman8969: it works here and for other X users very well |
| 05:26.27 | npm | i think qmltube for maemo was missing that .... |
| 05:26.37 | antman8969 | well thats not good |
| 05:26.42 | npm | but first qtzibit which is much higher priority :-) |
| 05:26.50 | ieatlint | nokia is putting specific efforts into making m.youtube.com work well on the device |
| 05:27.20 | npm | oh interesting.... i was wondering if (other hypothesis) that it weasn't some kind of security aegis issue |
| 05:27.38 | ieatlint | how is it trying to play the video? |
| 05:27.41 | npm | and that the browser->media player is handing off some appropriate permissions to allow the codecs to run |
| 05:27.43 | ieatlint | qt or gstreamer? |
| 05:28.00 | npm | it appears that the stuff is running in harmattan media player |
| 05:28.05 | npm | which looks like qt |
| 05:28.38 | djszapi_ | npm: well you can see from the console or syslog whether there is any aegis complain. |
| 05:29.09 | npm | the only complain was 'Warning: "No decoder available for type 'video/x-flash-video, pixel-aspect-ratio=(fraction)1/1, width=(int)400, height=(int)220, framerate=(fraction)25/1'." '' |
| 05:29.21 | npm | but it's possible that gstreamer is eating the lower level complaints |
| 05:29.41 | djszapi_ | it has nothing to do with aegis. |
| 05:29.55 | npm | the thing is the above 400x220 vid is already mobile-sized. |
| 05:30.18 | npm | which is why i was thinking it was aegis |
| 05:30.48 | djszapi_ | stop thinking of aegis. |
| 05:31.07 | ieatlint | we're all trying to |
| 05:31.08 | npm | and if it isn't one of these days i'll be inspired to do a buffer overflow in gstreamer and show why one should be concerned :-) |
| 05:32.13 | npm | actually if the security arch is done the way i'd do it, aegis should be involved... |
| 05:33.16 | djszapi_ | I have said it has nothing to do with aegis, if there is no messages. What else could I save? Think that it is aegis then, I do not care. |
| 05:33.25 | djszapi_ | * say |
| 05:33.40 | ieatlint | I think it may be aegis |
| 05:33.53 | npm | well the right way to check, which is a total pain in the ass, is to turn on full gstreamer debugging since it is eating all manner of stuff |
| 05:35.25 | npm | well given that there's a few opinions on this, and i was just proposing aegis as hypothesis, (this is software, just thinking about it causes a heisenberg effect :-) |
| 05:35.38 | djszapi_ | ieatlint: sure everything is related aegis. Be paranoid and keep repeating it if there is any problem. Even if someone from the aegis team says it is not related. Good luck and debug aegis... ;-) |
| 05:36.05 | ieatlint | djszapi_: oh no, i agree with you, i just am entertained by your reaction |
| 05:36.25 | npm | ah, so it's not aegis? |
| 05:36.31 | npm | can't tell sarcasm on irc |
| 05:36.43 | djszapi_ | npm: seriously, reading this channel. Every issue is aegis related ! |
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| 05:36.53 | npm | oh, i just found out about this channel |
| 05:36.57 | Termana | morning |
| 05:37.06 | ieatlint | that's probably aegis' fault |
| 05:37.58 | npm | heh, djszapi_... i think aegis is cool. i'm not blaming it, however i need to learn it as i've only been dealing w/ it for less than 10 hours |
| 05:38.56 | npm | however i'd like to understand what magic incantation i have to add to my .pro file so that /opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit is recognized as the legitimate app by aegis |
| 05:39.09 | djszapi_ | npm: which word of the sentence "it is not aegis related, if there is no error/warning message" you do not understand ? :) |
| 05:39.42 | npm | so "Aegis rejecting /home/developer/qtzibit_0_0_1_armel.deb: opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit not installed by the package" is not aegis related?? |
| 05:40.01 | djszapi_ | you said there is no warning, error message when I asked. |
| 05:40.27 | npm | i'm working on two progs. |
| 05:40.40 | djszapi_ | npm: very obscure what you are doing :) |
| 05:40.51 | djszapi_ | so is there an error message for what you are doing or not ? |
| 05:40.53 | npm | the question: however i'd like to understand what magic incantation i have to add to my .pro file so that /opt/qtzibit/bin/qtzibit is recognized as the legitimate app by aegis |
| 05:41.29 | npm | the pro file http://qtzibit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/qtzibit.pro |
| 05:42.01 | djszapi_ | I have no idea how it is qmake related since I do not know qmake. CMake worked out-of-the-box for me without any special thing. |
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| 05:42.16 | npm | i'm using qtcreator |
| 05:42.22 | tomma | using harmattan target in creator should handle it |
| 05:42.23 | djszapi_ | I am using vi. |
| 05:42.55 | djszapi_ | npm: actually, if it does not work in qtcreator, it is a QtCreator bug. |
| 05:43.00 | npm | my condolences. i hated vi back when i started on bsd 4.2 on a vax 11/750 :-) |
| 05:43.02 | djszapi_ | nothing to do with aegis since it works from cli. |
| 05:43.05 | npm | and i still hate it |
| 05:43.25 | ieatlint | don't start the editor war |
| 05:44.11 | hiemanshu | butterflies > * :P |
| 05:44.21 | djszapi_ | ieatlint: there is no war, we discussed the environments.... |
| 05:44.27 | djszapi_ | npm: seriously, try it out from console. |
| 05:44.39 | djszapi_ | (as I said) |
| 05:45.11 | djszapi_ | There has already been a similar QtCreator bug (similar scenario, everybody was blaming aegis, but had nothing to do with that) |
| 05:46.22 | npm | actually reading the logs is just as good as running from console "# Add here commands to install the package into debian/qtzibit." is trhe problem.... |
| 05:48.43 | tomma | how have you defined install in your .pro? |
| 05:49.15 | tomma | i have no idea if that qmlapplicationviewer template should work with harmattan |
| 05:59.22 | djszapi_ | npm: forget qtcreator until it does not work from console. |
| 06:01.42 | djszapi_ | try to localize the issue |
| 06:02.08 | Summeli | npm: the agies probably wants that manifest-file |
| 06:03.05 | npm | i already sort of solved the issue djszapi_ |
| 06:03.14 | Summeli | ok, nice :) |
| 06:03.56 | npm | now it installs successfully. but puts the binary in an unexpected place |
| 06:05.09 | npm | is there any rules on where binaries go? the one i installed successfull was in /opt/qmltube/bin/qmltube ... hopefully that's an ok location for binaries |
| 06:06.52 | djszapi_ | well, you cannot put under /etc/, but that should be okay, imho :) |
| 06:07.31 | djszapi_ | you can try to touch any file into that folder. The problem is that if a directory is completely integrity protected. That should work. :) |
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| 06:56.47 | harbaum | morn |
| 06:57.38 | dm8tbr | muten gorgen |
| 06:57.48 | harbaum | :-) |
| 06:58.23 | Summeli | npm: I have similar location for my app, it should be ok |
| 06:58.51 | Summeli | How can you add configuration files etc. with the qt creator to the deb-package |
| 06:59.11 | Summeli | I mean that if I would like to have /opt/myapp/myapp.conf file, how could I add that into the deb-file |
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| 07:10.09 | tonberry__ | harmatton can support 3gp format?? |
| 07:17.03 | thp | Summeli: just like other files (.desktop, etc) |
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| 07:17.41 | Summeli | thp: where those files are listed? |
| 07:17.45 | Summeli | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-2.2/creator-deployment-maemo.html this is pretty funny |
| 07:17.57 | Summeli | I can add .desktop etc. files, but I can't add custom files through that one |
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| 07:18.30 | Summeli | maybe I'll just search for the .desktop file and add a line after that |
| 07:19.15 | thp | Summeli: somethere in the .pro file |
| 07:19.21 | thp | 'somewhere' |
| 07:22.01 | thp | Summeli: so you have e.g. configfile.files = myapp.conf and configfile.path = /opt/myapp and INSTALLS += configfile |
| 07:22.58 | Summeli | thp: I tried that one, and result was broken package :D |
| 07:23.15 | Summeli | ..maybe there was a typo or something.. |
| 07:23.36 | Summeli | at least it made a difference, since I got the broken package ;-) |
| 07:23.56 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 07:24.09 | thp | Summeli: INSTALLS += (the + is important) |
| 07:35.47 | harbaum | if i have a qml Page { id: page { Map id:map }}, why can't i access page.map.something() ?? |
| 07:36.17 | harbaum | it sais 'page.map' [undefined] |
| 07:36.26 | thp | harbaum: leave out the 'page.' |
| 07:36.40 | harbaum | nope, then it doesn't know about map at all |
| 07:37.02 | thp | harbaum: one option is this: property alias map: map |
| 07:37.10 | thp | which exposes map as a property of page |
| 07:37.22 | thp | page.map.something() should work that |
| 07:37.33 | thp | (you put that property alias on page) |
| 07:38.03 | harbaum | still page.map [undefined] |
| 07:38.34 | harbaum | something is fishy here ... |
| 07:47.51 | harbaum | thp: Hmm, seems to be related to the fact that Map is a qwidget |
| 07:48.26 | harbaum | exposing a standard button that way works |
| 07:51.04 | harbaum | ok, ugly solution: create an addiotnal function in "page" to interface map with the rest |
| 07:57.06 | thp | harbaum: btw, is it the QML port of Osm2Go? |
| 07:57.27 | harbaum | nope, it's cacheme, basdcially the qml port of gpxview |
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| 08:24.03 | khertan1 | Morning |
| 08:28.42 | Jaffa | Morning, all |
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| 08:29.32 | khertan1 | morning Jaffa |
| 08:30.11 | Venemo_N950_webc | good morning |
| 08:30.26 | Venemo_N950_webc | djszapi, ping |
| 08:30.36 | khertan1 | is still experimenting and trying to do a qml ui which provide easy switch between many opened file |
| 08:32.43 | *** join/#harmattan razvanpetru (~razvan@188.27.87.149) |
| 08:36.16 | Venemo_N950_webc | I will make a QML IRC client... webchat is sooo unbearable |
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| 08:39.05 | razvanpetru | webapps are unbearable in general |
| 08:40.07 | Venemo_N950_webc | agreed |
| 08:40.38 | harbaum | cacheme also basically is nothing but a very specialized browser |
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| 08:46.02 | Venemo_N950_webc | now I'' leave this dreadful interface |
| 08:51.27 | djszapi | Stskeeps: telepathy-idle might help with IRC things on this gadget (N950). Unfortunately, I am not sure though. |
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| 08:55.26 | flux | I think the next logical step is to provide QML apps over HTTP :-) |
| 08:57.13 | Mek | I think somebody wrote at least a khtml plugin that allowed for exactly that |
| 08:57.37 | frals | afaik you can load components over http already flux, so almost there ;) |
| 09:06.40 | *** join/#harmattan gri (~gri@p4FCEC11E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:10.04 | khertan1 | maybe they should start improving text management before :) |
| 09:10.29 | khertan1 | and easy component to do non hierarchical multiple page |
| 09:10.38 | Stskeeps | it's possible to provide qml over http already |
| 09:10.38 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 09:11.37 | khertan1 | pfffffiou ... it s difficult to do something in qml when a component was designed for |
| 09:11.43 | khertan1 | s/was/wasn't |
| 09:15.51 | harbaum | khertan1: Also some very basic widgets are missing like a combobox |
| 09:16.35 | khertan1 | i m surprize that it s easy to do page stack navigation , or toolbar page navigation |
| 09:17.07 | harbaum | why? That's how all the pre-installe dprogram work |
| 09:17.41 | razvanpetru | harbaum yeah, tell me about it, I had to spend a few hours yesterday trying to hack together a combobox |
| 09:18.05 | harbaum | i am now using a ButtonColumn instead |
| 09:18.09 | khertan1 | harbaum: yep works well in some case |
| 09:18.24 | khertan1 | harbaum: but try to do a text editor with multiple file view |
| 09:18.26 | razvanpetru | and what does the ButtonColumn do? |
| 09:18.30 | harbaum | if the number of entrie sis small |
| 09:18.33 | djszapi | There is a MComboBox in the meegotouch API. |
| 09:18.41 | djszapi | :p |
| 09:18.47 | khertan1 | harbaum: will be slow to close and open file each time :) |
| 09:19.07 | razvanpetru | djszapi: is it shippable? |
| 09:19.30 | djszapi | razvanpetru: what do you mean by "shippable" ? |
| 09:19.36 | Mek | isn't a button/something which pops a selection dialog (which unfortunately is broken to only accept ListModel as model) a perfect replacement for a combobox? |
| 09:19.51 | razvanpetru | can I just import something, declare the item in the QML and ship my software? :P |
| 09:19.58 | razvanpetru | or do I have to hack things together :) |
| 09:20.32 | razvanpetru | because this is the biggest problem of mobile Qt... you have to create the UI yourself if you want to have any hope of a good looking app. harmattan goes a long way towards fixing it... but not all the way |
| 09:21.07 | razvanpetru | for my QsWallet app I spent maybe 60% of dev time working around UI bugs and trying to make the UI look decent on Symbian touch |
| 09:21.42 | khertan1 | and you didn't depends too much on the gui |
| 09:22.15 | khertan1 | for making my source code editor i ve already lost 90% in gui |
| 09:22.41 | razvanpetru | khertan1: QML or QWidget? |
| 09:22.55 | djszapi | razvanpetru: I do not know whether they wrapped it in QML. When I wrote my Harmattan Ui in C++, it worked just fine. |
| 09:24.03 | Mek | there are a lot of widgets in meegotouch that don't exist in qml |
| 09:24.08 | razvanpetru | speaking of C++, is anyone using C++0x on Harmattan? |
| 09:25.00 | Mek | for example the entire "Fast Scroll" thing doesn't exist in qml (although it is not that hard to reimement something similar in qml...) |
| 09:25.33 | harbaum | khertan1: did you have a method to detect meego Ãn qmake? |
| 09:25.52 | razvanpetru | unix:!symbian:!maemo5 basically... |
| 09:26.20 | razvanpetru | although this will fail if you have desktop targets I think |
| 09:26.54 | harbaum | but that's exactly what i want to distibguish from |
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| 09:28.04 | razvanpetru | maemo6 would have made sense but it didn't work for me |
| 09:29.00 | harbaum | there is no built-in way. you need to do some trick. the questoin is which one |
| 09:29.34 | razvanpetru | env var? :P |
| 09:30.34 | harbaum | at build time? |
| 09:30.53 | harbaum | at runtime i am checking for /etc/issue |
| 09:32.06 | razvanpetru | yes |
| 09:32.26 | razvanpetru | so instead of unix:!symbian:!maemo5 you could check for the var |
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| 09:35.02 | harbaum | but then i'd have to set the env var. i want a full automatic thing |
| 09:35.23 | gri | at runtime there is also "uname -a" which returns "Linux RM680" .. at build time scratchbox has the hosts system name :( |
| 09:35.59 | harbaum | i am not building through scratchbox |
| 09:38.07 | gri | any way to detect whether you're building for arm or not? |
| 09:38.19 | harbaum | http://www.harbaum.org/till/cacheme/cacheme_0.9_harmattan.deb |
| 09:38.40 | harbaum | It's just the bare map with gps and some simple config dialog |
| 09:38.44 | djszapi | razvanpetru: question is that why there are missing components, still. |
| 09:38.55 | djszapi | (fundamental) |
| 09:39.03 | Stskeeps | harbaum: btw, we have agps working in n900 CE now as well if that interests you |
| 09:39.10 | kimju | could someone run "dpkg -l > foo" on device and pastebin that? |
| 09:39.38 | harbaum | Stskeeps: great, i'll give it a try |
| 09:39.48 | Stskeeps | harbaum: qt mobility should be all wired up |
| 09:40.06 | djszapi | razvanpetru: maybe you can write one and contribute it back and then it will be shared :p |
| 09:42.50 | *** join/#harmattan razvanpetru (~razvan@188.27.87.149) |
| 09:51.39 | djszapi | fwiw: telepathy-idle is packaged: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=telepathy-idle&project=home%3Adjszapi We could make a Ui for it and then we could have an IRC client for this N950 gadget. |
| 09:55.13 | alterego | I wonder if Peregrine would do that .. |
| 09:56.56 | *** join/#harmattan eman (~lemmings@124-168-1-96.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:57.44 | djszapi | I have never heard of Peregrine. However I have discussed it with the konversation developers and that project is not modularized enough yet to just use a properly library. That is what telepathy can provide, but any reasonable solution is good for this use case. |
| 10:00.26 | *** join/#harmattan eg81 (~eg81@rain.fbsd.lt) |
| 10:04.17 | *** join/#harmattan deimos (~deimos@host172-139-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:07.49 | lardman | morning |
| 10:08.28 | *** join/#harmattan kavacha (~kavacha@67.51.76.83) |
| 10:12.37 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28297.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:13.54 | DocScrutinizer | morning |
| 10:14.44 | harbaum | Do we have a place to put interesting .deb files? |
| 10:15.08 | kimju | is the obs at (pub.)build.meego.com already able to compile packages for harmattan? what repositories I should configure my project to use there? |
| 10:15.25 | djszapi | harbaum: c-obs |
| 10:15.28 | djszapi | kimju: indeed |
| 10:15.28 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: AGPS? that's rather exciting |
| 10:16.10 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: agps as in gps assisted with almanac over wire |
| 10:17.26 | djszapi | kimju: well, there is no shared repository yet. It is rather sad if you ask me. |
| 10:17.52 | lardman | is it just me or is it not possible to operate the phone with one hand? E.g. from the unlock screen I can't for the life of me open the phone app from a missed call notification |
| 10:17.56 | djszapi | maybe we could create one instead of waiting for lbt, X-Fade ? |
| 10:18.14 | lcuk | djszapi, find a way to make gitorious or github your repository and just build projects directly on devices |
| 10:18.41 | djszapi | lcuk: I like neither of them, mainly gitorious. |
| 10:18.50 | Jaffa | lardman: I often struggle, especially with swipes as my thumb/palm intersection ends up also touching the screen |
| 10:18.50 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@f051228215.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:19.07 | frals | lardman: fwiw its way easier on n9 |
| 10:19.10 | lardman | Jaffa: seems to me that they should allow me to not need to swipe so far |
| 10:19.12 | kimju | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS is missing info how to configure your obs project for harmattan, only how to use the results in harmattan. |
| 10:19.21 | lardman | frals: different sw or smaller device? |
| 10:19.31 | frals | lardman: my below-thumb-cushion seems to touch the screen on the n950 all the time when swiping |
| 10:19.31 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 10:19.45 | frals | lardman: different hw design, i guess is the cause |
| 10:19.56 | kimju | but if the harmattan support in obs is still work in progress then I'll just use scratchbox for my own needs |
| 10:19.59 | lardman | frals: cool |
| 10:20.19 | Jaffa | kimju: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3671 contains info on the destination and how to use the work in progress |
| 10:20.25 | frals | lardman: ymmv, but thats my feeling at least ;) |
| 10:20.31 | Jaffa | I didn't want to advertise it too much because X-Fade was still working on it. |
| 10:20.44 | lardman | frals: no worries :) |
| 10:21.25 | Jaffa | However, since other things may be blocking progress I don't see why the wiki page couldn't link to http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25005&postcount=29 |
| 10:24.08 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 10:24.30 | djszapi | How many packagers are here ? We could create a shared repository for packages. |
| 10:28.42 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: on which device? |
| 10:28.54 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: sorry etab |
| 10:28.55 | djszapi | Harmattan, N950 |
| 10:29.00 | djszapi | oh :) |
| 10:29.09 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: on which device? |
| 10:29.32 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: n900 |
| 10:29.51 | kimju | Jaffa, thanks, I'll test if that works for me. |
| 10:29.59 | DocScrutinizer | and you feed the alm/eph to modem via isi? |
| 10:30.42 | *** join/#harmattan smoku (~smoku@93.159.54.194) |
| 10:30.59 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right now we just ported liblocation and the stack onto meego n900 and glued qt mobility to it |
| 10:31.07 | Jaffa | djszapi: A shared repository rapidly gets problematic. Which is why the PPA and shared Apps-testing & Apps process is being followed. |
| 10:31.20 | Stskeeps | i'm aware this is not the proper way but better to have working than not at all :P |
| 10:31.35 | Jaffa | djszapi: In the short term, it's sub-optimal for those devs wanting to use more on their N950s |
| 10:31.37 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 10:31.56 | Jaffa | has found a few repos via Google, so might start a wiki page |
| 10:32.03 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: think of it as a ""closed driver"" |
| 10:32.09 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right |
| 10:32.24 | Jaffa | kimju: If it does, can you update Getting_started_with_OBS, please? |
| 10:32.35 | djszapi | Jaffa: what do you mean ? |
| 10:32.55 | djszapi | We need a shared repository because we would like to avoid the duplication. |
| 10:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: OTOH I wonder if AGPS via wire *ever* worked even for M5 |
| 10:34.21 | Jaffa | djszapi: ITP and other coordination processes |
| 10:34.44 | djszapi | Jaffa: we do not need an Apps Apps-Testing bureaucracy for the short term at all |
| 10:35.05 | djszapi | Jaffa: Also, the blog of lbt has been there for more than half a year and it is still nowhere, no names added in the team etc. |
| 10:35.23 | djszapi | we cannot wait another half a year for a proper bureaucracy, we could have an interim solution which /works/. |
| 10:35.28 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: maybe I have to eventually redo my A/B-tests, which showed TTFF is unbearable on a device with WLAN but no SIM |
| 10:38.42 | *** join/#harmattan willer_ (~Willer@189.2.128.130) |
| 10:39.59 | Jaffa | djszapi: What are you asking for? It's unclear. http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos is my interim suggestion. |
| 10:40.08 | Jaffa | djszapi: "duplication" of what? |
| 10:40.14 | djszapi | Jaffa: my asking: 13:24 < djszapi> How many packagers are here ? We could create a shared repository for packages. |
| 10:40.19 | Jaffa | kimju: I've added the forum.meego.com link to getting started page |
| 10:40.22 | djszapi | Jaffa: duplication of packages. |
| 10:40.32 | Jaffa | djszapi: How are you going to duplicate my software? |
| 10:40.42 | Jaffa | djszapi: I suspect you're talking about libraries, but you haven't mentioned that. |
| 10:40.57 | djszapi | not libraries, no, not at all |
| 10:41.05 | djszapi | I am speaking about packaging effort. |
| 10:41.25 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, stuff like aircrack-ng or libs I guess |
| 10:41.34 | djszapi | Good example, I did not duplicate any package creation process. However I saw that more packages of mine were duplicated in other own repositories..which is not nice for them |
| 10:41.43 | djszapi | They did not realize there are already such packages. |
| 10:41.47 | lardman | I would prefer to not have to build all the libraries I need, so add me to the vote |
| 10:41.54 | djszapi | They could have spent their time more efficiently with contribution. |
| 10:42.39 | MohammadAG | extras-devel for Harmattan would be awesome |
| 10:43.10 | lardman | +1 |
| 10:43.25 | lardman | and would also mean no need to learn obs ;) |
| 10:43.27 | djszapi | yep, but what is being proposed by lbt and X-Fade is a long process with so much bureaucracy. It does not really work in the short term |
| 10:43.30 | Jaffa | djszapi: So, you're not talking about libraries; but someone taking some software (e.g. from Maemo) and repackaging it *who isn't the original packager*? |
| 10:43.32 | MohammadAG | same system, devs don't have to learn new stuff |
| 10:43.58 | Jaffa | lardman: Well, given there's only one Harmattan autobuilder and its OBS, you'd still have to. |
| 10:44.02 | djszapi | Jaffa: you do not still understand ehhh |
| 10:44.31 | MohammadAG | personally I like OBS as a concept, but don't think it "just works" |
| 10:44.45 | djszapi | Jaffa: "A" person packages "P" package. "B" person also packages "P" package. Isn't it a duplication ? Wouldn't it be enough if one of them packages "P" and the other one "R" ? |
| 10:44.49 | Jaffa | 3 of you are all agreeing with each other and asking for 3 different things. |
| 10:44.51 | MohammadAG | you'll need to find the homes or repos that host the packages you want |
| 10:45.08 | Jaffa | djszapi: Use a concrete example. What is "P"? You said it's not a library. |
| 10:45.10 | lardman | Jaffa: well wrap it in a extras-style web submission page then |
| 10:45.21 | djszapi | Jaffa: that does not really matter what P is. |
| 10:45.24 | Jaffa | lardman: OBS has a web UI, AIUI |
| 10:45.51 | MohammadAG | do OBS builds eventually end up somewhere? |
| 10:45.52 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@f051228215.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:45.52 | Jaffa | djszapi: It does. Who owns "P"? Why are A & B both packaging it? Was there any avenue to discuss between themselves? etc. |
| 10:46.03 | MohammadAG | a centralized repo containing all packages |
| 10:46.05 | lardman | MohammadAG: in your own repo afaiu |
| 10:46.06 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: OBS builds end up in debian repositories (assuming you're building for Harmattan) |
| 10:46.21 | djszapi | Jaffa: it is really simple, there is no centralized place where they could look for. |
| 10:46.26 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: No, a centralised repo is specifically *not* possible. |
| 10:46.28 | djszapi | for instance, from command line. |
| 10:46.34 | djszapi | so both started packaging. |
| 10:46.34 | Jaffa | djszapi: They could, y'know, talk to the maintainer of "P" |
| 10:46.40 | *** part/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.90) |
| 10:46.40 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@93.87.57.90) |
| 10:46.43 | MohammadAG | that's my point |
| 10:46.51 | djszapi | Jaffa: No, it is not acceptable approach in my opinion. |
| 10:47.06 | djszapi | We should provide as efficient environment as possible to avoid the duplication. |
| 10:47.07 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, suppose you need libqfacebook-dev, so you packaged it and sent it to your home repo |
| 10:47.23 | Jaffa | Well whoopty fucking do. I'm explaining what's possible, and what the process is. I've also tried to mitigate the risks (which I agree with) by creating a wiki page and trying to point ppl to it. |
| 10:47.31 | MohammadAG | now suppose I also need libqfacebook-dev, and I didn't know you already packaged it |
| 10:47.37 | MohammadAG | I'd package it again |
| 10:47.54 | djszapi | yeah, what MohammadAG is ssaying basically, +1 |
| 10:48.04 | lardman | MohammadAG: good point, we could do with a search page to search all of obs repos |
| 10:48.11 | djszapi | lardman: nope |
| 10:48.14 | MohammadAG | on Fremantle, I could just apt-get install libqfacebook-dev |
| 10:48.15 | Jaffa | And the way other people have done - including MeeGo - is have "ITP" Intent to Package pages where you can see if anyone's done it. |
| 10:48.23 | MohammadAG | no packages found = I package it |
| 10:48.24 | djszapi | a centralized repository would be better since you can do it from cli. |
| 10:48.24 | frals | 12:46:26 < Jaffa> MohammadAG: No, a centralised repo is specifically *not* possible. |
| 10:48.31 | MohammadAG | package found = profit |
| 10:48.37 | frals | wait what? doesnt it work for harmattan OBS target? |
| 10:48.42 | lardman | djszapi: nope what? |
| 10:48.42 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: moinmoin |
| 10:48.49 | frals | is confused |
| 10:48.55 | frals | heads opens wikipage |
| 10:49.06 | djszapi | frals: I did not understand that either :/ |
| 10:49.24 | djszapi | lardman: search page is not enough, people tend to look packages from cli |
| 10:49.32 | djszapi | some people start packaging it if they do not find it there. |
| 10:49.34 | Jaffa | frals: Does "what" not work? |
| 10:49.42 | kimju | wouldn't those Apps and Apps testing repositories be the centralized ones? after the stuff is mature enough. |
| 10:49.46 | lardman | Jaffa: with your repo list plan, we could do with e.g. .install files (are they still supported) to allow people to add these repos I would say |
| 10:49.46 | Jaffa | frals: Harmattan OBS target is a "repository" attached to a "project" |
| 10:49.49 | djszapi | centralized, shared repository would solve it without adding 10+ repositories or even more. |
| 10:49.54 | Jaffa | kimju: Exactly. |
| 10:50.03 | kimju | until that, some manual work will be needed for dependencies. |
| 10:50.04 | frals | Jaffa: "a centralised repo" for libraries and apps |
| 10:50.07 | lardman | djszapi: hmm |
| 10:50.11 | djszapi | kimju: too much bureaucracy. It does not work in the short term |
| 10:50.13 | Jaffa | djszapi: I suggest you go and read all the background around Surrounds, Apps, Extras and the discussion therein. |
| 10:50.16 | kimju | you can branch the package in obs or something |
| 10:50.32 | Jaffa | frals: That's Apps-testing and Apps |
| 10:50.35 | frals | Jaffa: basically a common OBS "project" where people can send their stuff so its in a "centralised" repo in the end |
| 10:50.40 | khertan1 | community obs isn't made for that ? |
| 10:50.44 | djszapi | Jaffa: I have done it multiple times earlier. |
| 10:50.47 | lardman | frals: +1 |
| 10:50.48 | djszapi | no thanks |
| 10:50.53 | Jaffa | IOW, when you've packaged something which works you promote it from your home repo to Apps-testing |
| 10:50.58 | frals | Jaffa: so its there? then i have no clue what the discussion is about :DDD |
| 10:50.59 | Jaffa | You can also clone projects into your repo |
| 10:51.19 | djszapi | Jaffa: why do you ignore what I am writing ? |
| 10:51.29 | lardman | Jaffa: I'm not sure such a repo should be exposed to the eventual end users, but it would be useful for us to use now, which would remove some of the Extras-* problems |
| 10:51.35 | Summeli | stupid question: how do I create my own repo? |
| 10:51.39 | djszapi | lbt's post has been there for ages, more than half a year and still nowhere, no teams, not enough people etc |
| 10:51.55 | frals | so what djszapi and lardman is asking for is apps-testing, and its there, and the only thing *packagers* need to do is promote it from their home repos to there |
| 10:51.55 | djszapi | it will not succeed in the short term meaning that we do really need a less restrict solution for the short term... |
| 10:51.58 | frals | correct? |
| 10:52.06 | djszapi | nope |
| 10:52.10 | lardman | Jaffa, frals: ah, I didn't realise it could be done like that either |
| 10:52.18 | djszapi | farls: too bureaucracy. |
| 10:52.22 | djszapi | too much QA for the short term |
| 10:52.28 | Jaffa | lardman: I don't disagree. However it doesn't exist. I'm not sure it can exist (but I'm not an OBS) expert. It doesn't take us towards the ultimate goal and so I've done what I can: explain the situation, the aim and created a page by which we can all collaborate (and there's also the ITP stuff which is EXACTLY FOR WHAT DJZAPI IS WANTING) |
| 10:52.31 | djszapi | there could be a less restrict interim solution |
| 10:52.32 | MohammadAG | how are packages considered mature Jaffa? |
| 10:52.46 | djszapi | frals: thing is that we need it yesterday ;) |
| 10:52.57 | Jaffa | frals: And the promotion mechanism from home repos to Apps-testing is currently in development. |
| 10:53.06 | lardman | Jaffa: what I want seems to exist I now know; I may have to do some fiddling around to get obs up and running, but it's not the end of the world |
| 10:53.11 | frals | Jaffa: oh, i see... that would be a problem |
| 10:53.12 | MohammadAG | if it's the same way from -testing -> to extras, then we're in for a shitload of repos |
| 10:53.19 | MohammadAG | morning DocScrutinizer |
| 10:53.29 | khertan1 | qrc:/qml/editorCreation.js: File not found |
| 10:53.31 | khertan1 | oups ... |
| 10:53.33 | djszapi | MohammadAG: agreed |
| 10:53.57 | frals | so the stop-gap solution would be for someone to set up a "apps-devel-temp" project and ask people to promote to that repo until the app-testing promotion works? |
| 10:54.02 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/QA |
| 10:54.08 | djszapi | Jaffa: your wikipage, sorry not destructive, just constructive, is a hazzle to me. |
| 10:54.09 | MohammadAG | If _I_ as a dev can mark them as stable, I'll be happy |
| 10:54.15 | Jaffa | MohammadAG: Devs can promote from home repos to Apps-testing at any time, AFAIK |
| 10:54.18 | djszapi | adding 10+ or even more later to my sources.list is not acceptable. |
| 10:54.32 | Jaffa | djszapi: Well I can't do anything else. |
| 10:54.32 | MohammadAG | Jaffa, and downvotes wouldn't kill it? |
| 10:54.42 | djszapi | it is the same what MohammadAG said. "shitload of repos" |
| 10:54.47 | djszapi | Jaffa: we CAN |
| 10:55.07 | djszapi | we can create a shared interim repository until the final one gets working |
| 10:55.16 | Jaffa | frals: I still don't know if you can cross-promote like that. You can "derive" packages (https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=attitude&project=home%3Ajaffa) |
| 10:55.26 | frals | Jaffa: just out of curiousity, what extra functionality does this promotion to apps-testing require that is been developed? since afaik meego already uses a similar approach? |
| 10:55.31 | djszapi | and later we can mostly port the interim repository into the final |
| 10:55.38 | djszapi | if there is any need for that... |
| 10:55.38 | Jaffa | frals: I'm not the person to ask. I've no idea. |
| 10:55.46 | frals | Jaffa: ok :) |
| 10:56.07 | djszapi | 13:53 < frals> so the stop-gap solution would be for someone to set up a "apps-devel-temp" project and ask people to promote to that repo until the app-testing promotion works? -> YEP |
| 10:56.13 | MohammadAG | I think the summary of the whole discussion is, having extras-devel would ease development |
| 10:56.21 | Jaffa | djszapi: Given no-one except the Treemaker folk have produceed anything which is suitable for anything other than devs on Harmattan, there is no movement from a shared short term project & repository to Apps-testing |
| 10:56.21 | lardman | all this cross-promotion and derivation needs to be documented in big developer friendly letters somewhere |
| 10:56.33 | djszapi | MohammadAG: yep, it seems we agree apart from Jaffa... |
| 10:56.39 | Jaffa | djszapi: Go and do that then, if you know how to in OBS |
| 10:56.42 | Jaffa | djszapi: Oh FFS. |
| 10:56.45 | *** part/#harmattan Jaffa (~andrew@Maemo/community/contributor/Jaffa) |
| 10:56.54 | MohammadAG | djszapi, he isn't disagreeing... |
| 10:57.00 | frals | jaffa was agreeing... |
| 10:57.00 | MohammadAG | it's called a discussion |
| 10:57.14 | djszapi | MohammadAG: I do not see the issue. Why not just create one then ? |
| 10:57.33 | frals | the problem is the automatic promotion without someone pressing accept on all submissions i guess |
| 10:59.18 | djszapi | frals: well, the whole apps ans apps-testing thing does not move towards the purpose, just very slowly. |
| 10:59.41 | djszapi | it is not acceptable. The idea has been there for more than half a year and still nowhere. |
| 10:59.59 | djszapi | there is no names added, so either we need to make the process faster or create an interim solution. |
| 11:00.05 | djszapi | which has obviously some drawbacks. |
| 11:01.08 | DocScrutinizer | noob asking here: which repo should I look for to get a midnight commander for harmattan? |
| 11:01.33 | MohammadAG | I'd guess none, you'll probably have to package it |
| 11:01.55 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: I can try to package it for you if you want. |
| 11:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | noob pondering: or is there some wiki site that holds links to all the places with repos and lists midnight commander if it exists anywhere? |
| 11:02.31 | djszapi | c-obs, you can look for it |
| 11:02.33 | MohammadAG | easy way is to apt-get source mc in fremantle target and fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -b |
| 11:02.33 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: iirc it's possible to search from the obs main page for subprojects |
| 11:02.37 | djszapi | however it is not as good as it could be. |
| 11:03.00 | djszapi | MohammadAG: I think it is better to use some newer debian version actually than fremantle |
| 11:03.05 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: obviously that's missing the point |
| 11:03.06 | djszapi | or kubuntu |
| 11:03.11 | khertan1 | if only python was integrated to qtcreator ... pff |
| 11:03.50 | lardman | hmm, that's a point, are the pyside packages in the sdk repo? |
| 11:03.52 | DocScrutinizer | just if you missed it - ^^^ noob was contributing to extras-devel-repo discussion |
| 11:03.56 | khertan1 | lardman: yep |
| 11:04.02 | lardman | phew, thanks khertan |
| 11:04.04 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, didn't miss it ;) |
| 11:04.17 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: nevertheless I'd appreciate somebody building it, yeah |
| 11:04.25 | djszapi | doing atm.... |
| 11:04.33 | khertan1 | lardman: maybe you know it, but python/pyside app will be accepted in ovi store for harmattan |
| 11:04.49 | lardman | I've never even seen Ovi store |
| 11:05.03 | lardman | I thought Ovi was being shutdown anyway? |
| 11:05.13 | kavacha | same |
| 11:05.30 | khertan1 | what that bloodyhell ? === to do a equal compare operation ! |
| 11:05.35 | khertan1 | strange qml is ! |
| 11:05.44 | djszapi | MohammadAG: so what is the outcome, should we create an apps-devel-temp for now with few of us ? |
| 11:05.49 | kimju | hmm, "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created.". seems to at least build stuff, but the repo is taking time to get created. |
| 11:05.49 | frals | == is equal but with type coercion |
| 11:05.56 | cpscotti | khertan, hehe had the same WTF first time I saw it |
| 11:06.24 | kimju | and another thing to note is that obs didn't add any build version to the package as it does with the rpm/spec stuff for meego-ce |
| 11:06.32 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: so you say there's actually some place where I could find a mc.deb if any exists, and that place is NOT called google? |
| 11:06.48 | khertan1 | cpscotti: the problem is that i say wtf every minutes with qt harmattan component |
| 11:06.52 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: I'm just repeating what someone told me ;) |
| 11:07.46 | cpscotti | khertan, my current WTF is: where can I see all the theme icons (e.g. "image://theme/icon-m-toolbar-search" ) |
| 11:08.02 | cpscotti | I beg for help.. the interweb is not helping at all |
| 11:08.10 | khertan1 | cpscotti: lol i got the same wtf some days ago |
| 11:08.19 | frals | cpscotti: /usr/share/themes/blanco/icons or smth |
| 11:08.26 | khertan1 | cpscotti: my way of discovering it was by looking at theme |
| 11:08.33 | khertan1 | and removing prefix :) |
| 11:09.05 | cpscotti | frals, thaaanks! I was at /usr/share/icons/blanco and didn't find anything.. |
| 11:09.45 | khertan1 | and now the current wtf ... is : why does qt didn't update my .js file in qemu ... |
| 11:10.25 | djszapi | frals DocScrutinizer MohammadAG lardman and others: I would also be happy if we more active users could get access to the apps and apps-testing, or lbt and x-fade would merge their packages within a reliable time, not a long process. |
| 11:10.26 | DocScrutinizer | well, there's http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free (and non-free, nokia-binaries) to search for packages. I wonder if we could get a http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free-community/* where mc could move to if e.g. mohammad feels like building it |
| 11:11.31 | khertan1 | would like also http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan/ |
| 11:11.33 | khertan1 | :) |
| 11:12.15 | khertan1 | qemu is so slow |
| 11:12.43 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: why not c-obs ? |
| 11:13.14 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: I actually don't care, just we need ONE place where rocks can aggregate |
| 11:13.47 | djszapi | yeah, that was the whole discussion about. We could have an apps-dev-temp at c-obs which satisfies also your request |
| 11:14.26 | DocScrutinizer | just like extras-devel been, just maybe with even less bureaucratic overhead, to register and get account and stuff |
| 11:14.33 | khertan1 | hu ... no ifconfig ? |
| 11:15.11 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: yeah, bureaucratic overhead quite disables to short term contribution properly. |
| 11:15.18 | djszapi | * the short term |
| 11:16.33 | DocScrutinizer | I mean, for now the number of potential contributors is rather limited, so we won't drown in crappy rogue contributions of unknown people |
| 11:17.13 | cpscotti | lol, there's a vodafone icon in the theme folder : /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons/icon-m-service-vodafone.png |
| 11:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | maybe just link to meego.com account and allow to "check in" stuff for all who got such account |
| 11:18.13 | kimju | well, if things are happening too slow, you can create your own home:user:community obs project and start acting as gatekeeper for that? |
| 11:18.45 | djszapi | kimju: that was the point of the whole discussion. To avoid that. |
| 11:19.11 | djszapi | everybody created his own repository from the beginning. Everybody made a great work there. However it is not shared, that is the point. |
| 11:19.14 | DocScrutinizer | it's actually kinda funny Nokia deploys developer devices to get a good number of apps for N9 rollout, and then a place is missing where Nokia actually can "harvest" the results |
| 11:19.30 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.105) |
| 11:19.35 | sebas | hey, does anyone else have problems installing the SDK which came with the N950? Installation fails here with the following error: |
| 11:19.59 | sebas | Could not fetch Updates.xml: Error downloading http://repository.meego.nokia.com/meegosdk/45F4AE4C67B0406F90EEE94EA5ABE69A/linux/64bit/Updates.xml - server replied: Bad Request |
| 11:19.59 | kimju | djszapi, so start sharing together? if you want a temp project, it could also be under some of your home:user.. while waiting for the long term solution |
| 11:20.04 | sebas | (it stops during setup) |
| 11:20.16 | djszapi | kimju: I think that is not a good idea... |
| 11:20.49 | djszapi | the problem is that I would still keep my repository for my own purposes since it can help later while merging into the final repository, if the temporary gets somehow messed up. I do think we need a separate and dedicated temporary repository for that. |
| 11:21.16 | kimju | yes? you can create as many home:user:something:else repos as needed |
| 11:21.32 | kimju | just name one as the community one. |
| 11:21.57 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: noob asking here: how would I find my midnight commander in that "structure"? google? |
| 11:22.04 | MohammadAG | what's the DDP's email again? |
| 11:22.14 | MohammadAG | it's been 12 or 13 days |
| 11:22.21 | djszapi | It would really be nice to create a community account for it. |
| 11:22.39 | kimju | DocScrutinizer, how would you find it from some apps-testing-temp ? |
| 11:22.51 | djszapi | kimju: google, wikipage |
| 11:22.58 | djszapi | we can add it to the aforementioned wikipage as well |
| 11:22.59 | kimju | exactly. |
| 11:23.01 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: ideally with apt-cache search? |
| 11:23.10 | djszapi | also from command line as DocScrutinizer is saying. |
| 11:23.32 | kimju | DocScrutinizer, you're not going to get any non-qa'd repo into the default images. not now, not later.. |
| 11:23.49 | djszapi | kimju: but he can add the repo to the sources.list file. |
| 11:23.50 | DocScrutinizer | default images?? |
| 11:23.57 | djszapi | nobody spoke about the default image :D |
| 11:24.05 | DocScrutinizer | you say I can't add any repo of my liking? |
| 11:24.26 | kimju | the noob wont know how to add one. |
| 11:24.51 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: except *me* there ARE NO noobs with N950 yet |
| 11:24.51 | kimju | and any more advanced user can as well add apps-testing-temp or home:user:community |
| 11:24.55 | djszapi | kimju: wikipage, IRC channel topic title, mailing list announcement. There are so many practices |
| 11:24.56 | *** join/#harmattan Teo` (~quassel@amarok/developer/teo) |
| 11:25.05 | djszapi | You cannot give 100% solution with the apps and apps-testing either anyway... |
| 11:26.04 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: and I'm absolutely unbiased about which is the name of that repo to add |
| 11:26.40 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: I just won't add one repo for mc, one for bin-utils-gnu, one for puzzlemaster... |
| 11:26.58 | kimju | what I'm trying to say that instead of complaining that someone is not creating non-qa'd common repo, you can just create one yourself. only difference is that it would be under home:user: namespace instead of some apps:testing:foo |
| 11:27.24 | DocScrutinizer | so WHAT's THE USE of such nonsense |
| 11:27.25 | kimju | in both cases you need to document the repo name to wiki etc.. |
| 11:27.37 | DocScrutinizer | of course I can create 10000 empty repos |
| 11:28.01 | DocScrutinizer | but how would I make others add stuff to it? |
| 11:28.24 | cpscotti | sebas, That one's not working. Just install normal QtSdk and then install Harmattan SDK under Experimental |
| 11:28.30 | djszapi | kimju: why do you think a community repository relates to a user and not a community account ? |
| 11:29.00 | kimju | DocScrutinizer, same way as into some other repo? document it and ask them to do so? |
| 11:29.12 | DocScrutinizer | haha |
| 11:29.34 | kimju | djszapi, I'm just trying to succest a workaround.. you can do it by yourself without waiting. |
| 11:30.24 | DocScrutinizer | "hey devels, there's randomhackers superduper-repo, but now HERE is the REAL thing, I just created the MEGA-ACME-repo and please all check in your stuff *only* to my repo now"" |
| 11:31.31 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: don't you see this isn't a technical but a semantic / social / communication problem? |
| 11:31.40 | sebas | cpscotti: ah, ok, thanks! |
| 11:32.59 | kimju | DocScrutinizer, I'm used to work around the social problems with technical solutions :D |
| 11:33.22 | DocScrutinizer | there just has to be *one* place where every devel is supposed to drop random bits he thinks can get re-used by other devels |
| 11:33.55 | djszapi | Could someone make a summary about the ideas on the wikipage, to not lose it ? :) |
| 11:34.48 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: technical solution to this: Nokia gets a notice on wiki: "please all devels drop your stuff to jaffa's user-repo: foo.bar.meego.info/pool/rocks/bla" |
| 11:35.37 | DocScrutinizer | if jaffa comes up with same suggestion, it will most likely go unnoticed |
| 11:35.37 | kimju | if this is community work, why it needs to be nokia to do that? |
| 11:36.11 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: It could as well be president of united states, or even linus torvalds |
| 11:36.17 | djszapi | kimju: that would avoid teh discussions inside the community which also takes some time. It would be straight-forward from the beginning. |
| 11:37.16 | DocScrutinizer | it just modt definitely not be a notice from me, that is authoritative to all community |
| 11:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | and aiui we got no council for meego, otherwise it'd be the council to come up with this |
| 11:39.30 | kimju | I just don't see the problem. you want such a repo, you can technically do it. so why not just create it, document and announce it and if the community likes the idea, they are going to push stuff there. at least I would do so. |
| 11:39.40 | DocScrutinizer | as that's what maemo community council was all about (among other duties) |
| 11:40.20 | Mek | why would a meego council get involved with harmatan repositories? |
| 11:40.21 | kimju | and then when the official apps/apps-testing is ready, start migrating stuff there. |
| 11:40.25 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: you're suggesting I'm going to waste my time |
| 11:40.31 | Mek | especially repository wise harmatan has nothing to do with meego |
| 11:40.44 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: obviously you have a reason to prefer technical to social solutions |
| 11:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | possibly a lack of understanding how community works |
| 11:44.17 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: basically it's eactly what needs to be done: >> create it, document and announce it and if the community likes the idea, they are going to push stuff there<< just it's the question WHO is going to do this. I elaborated above why it's no e.g. me who's the right guy to start on it |
| 11:45.10 | kimju | I really don't see why you can't be the one to start that |
| 11:45.12 | DocScrutinizer | maybe any of the council would be right guy for that |
| 11:45.31 | DocScrutinizer | maybe $random Nokia guy. Maybe Quim |
| 11:46.47 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: I technically *can* do it, but it's prone to fail |
| 11:47.10 | DocScrutinizer | jaffa otoh would be a good choice |
| 11:47.24 | DocScrutinizer | Quim would be the best choice really |
| 11:48.59 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi (~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp) |
| 11:51.26 | lardman | hmm, following this channel is a full time job |
| 11:51.38 | kimju | sorry :) |
| 11:51.57 | lardman | np, just going to have to read offline rather than dipping in while at work |
| 12:02.24 | macmaN | anyone get a car holder for the n950 yet? |
| 12:05.11 | *** join/#harmattan lcuk (lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk) |
| 12:08.50 | Stecchino | macmaN: I've got a universal one that I got for the N900 that works quite well |
| 12:09.04 | Stecchino | also holds my gf's HTC very good to |
| 12:09.28 | Stecchino | just the charging port at the top is a bit of a bother |
| 12:09.55 | macmaN | mhm |
| 12:10.20 | macmaN | is your a 4-corner holder? |
| 12:10.23 | macmaN | or two sides? |
| 12:10.35 | macmaN | http://www.kannukas.ee/id/kataloog/katid/140/ |
| 12:10.49 | *** join/#harmattan trx (~ns-team@212.200.199.16) |
| 12:11.30 | macmaN | im kinda digging the corner holder |
| 12:11.42 | macmaN | http://www.kannukas.ee/binary/true/objekt/thumb/l/640/fail/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kannukas.ee%2Ffailid%2FHR24905_1.jpg/ext/jpg |
| 12:12.32 | macmaN | judging from the urls, it has to be one of the gayest e-shop platforms available that theyre using |
| 12:26.16 | Stecchino | macmaN: 2 sides |
| 12:27.18 | Stecchino | macmaN: basically like this: http://www.kannukas.ee/id/kataloog/act/seadista/toode/975/ |
| 12:27.56 | *** join/#harmattan eman (~lemmings@124-168-1-96.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:29.54 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: we got nice chanlogs ;-) |
| 12:30.18 | lardman | DocScrutinizer: yeah I know, but I keep forgetting to grab them before I head home - doh! |
| 12:30.31 | lardman | internet should be connected soon though so I'm told |
| 12:30.37 | DocScrutinizer | aaah |
| 12:31.28 | macmaN | Stecchino: gotcha kthx |
| 12:32.17 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: I could set up an autoresponder: <lardman>bye -->> <DocScrutinizer> lardman: don't forget to grab http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ |
| 12:32.27 | lardman | :) |
| 12:33.10 | DocScrutinizer | lardman: how about a cronjob with wget? ;-) |
| 12:33.45 | lardman | yeah lots that could be done, but that would also require me to remember to take e.g. a usb key home with me :) |
| 12:33.57 | lardman | as I'm working on a desktop here |
| 12:33.58 | DocScrutinizer | ooh |
| 12:34.15 | DocScrutinizer | N900? |
| 12:34.41 | lardman | Am using N950 day to day atm |
| 12:34.55 | DocScrutinizer | could do that as well I'd hope |
| 12:35.30 | lardman | yeah, but I'd need to do more fiddling about - may as well concentrate on the important apps that I'm working on |
| 12:35.46 | DocScrutinizer | while true; do wget http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/; sleep $(( 15 * 60 )); done |
| 12:36.01 | DocScrutinizer | for your convenience :-) |
| 12:36.05 | lardman | When I finally finish proximus I could get it to wget the data as I reach the carpark just before the wifi gives out ;) |
| 12:36.14 | DocScrutinizer | actually the link is wrong |
| 12:36.47 | DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/latest.log.html |
| 12:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | is the right one |
| 12:36.56 | lardman | thanks |
| 12:37.54 | lardman | hates sorting out document references and checking table/figure numbers before sending a report off |
| 12:39.01 | khertan1 | look like n9seconds.com is over attack :) |
| 12:40.17 | DocScrutinizer | n9attack.com - awesome |
| 12:49.41 | *** join/#harmattan fiferboy (~fiferboy@Maemo/community/contributor/fiferboy) |
| 13:00.05 | DocScrutinizer | haha, I thought I might give store.ovi.com another chance to convince me: of course no N9 (yet?), but a really funny detail is N900 shows up when you select "show: touch" and does *not* show up when you select "show: full kbd" |
| 13:01.27 | *** join/#harmattan achipa (~attila@Maemo/community/council/achipa) |
| 13:12.01 | *** join/#harmattan rm_code (~adam@66-90-160-127.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 13:14.47 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
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| 13:19.07 | *** join/#harmattan lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 13:21.22 | alterego | Anyone fancy getting this to work with the N9? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9dpXHnJXaE |
| 13:21.25 | alterego | chuckles |
| 13:32.19 | cpscotti | alterego, LOL! awesome! Imagine downloading a film on that thing... |
| 13:33.01 | cpscotti | I wonder if it's soo raw that it would work through cell phone lines ... :D |
| 13:33.24 | alterego | Yes it should do, I used to have a modem that used a similar technology. |
| 13:33.39 | alterego | But it depends on the line quality, cell phones use a lot of compression |
| 13:36.56 | cpscotti | alterego, yep.. Probably it takes out all frequencies not produced/relevant/consumed by humans |
| 13:40.24 | hiemanshu | ok, so I did some playing around with the N950, so far, its decent, loads of bugs |
| 13:41.38 | Stskeeps | just remember it's ancient firmware |
| 13:42.34 | hiemanshu | Stskeeps: yeah |
| 13:42.58 | hiemanshu | plain Qt Version of my app works perfectly on it |
| 13:43.11 | hiemanshu | need to change the UI to QML and should be done |
| 13:43.39 | hiemanshu | and Qt 4.8 \o/ |
| 13:45.22 | *** join/#harmattan rm_work (~rm_you@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 13:48.05 | harbaum | it has some very surprising and nice features: E.g. Exchange integration works so cool |
| 13:48.37 | harbaum | You can eveninvite people to meetings |
| 13:49.05 | harbaum | And you can schedule email downloads, so it dosn't wake you up in the night |
| 13:49.16 | alterego | Oh nice, they finally have ctrl+arrow navigate between words in camel case :D |
| 13:49.23 | harbaum | i thould start a thread about this on t.m.o |
| 13:49.41 | harbaum | what's a camel case? |
| 13:49.51 | alterego | ThisIsCamelCase |
| 13:51.05 | harbaum | ah, i thought it was a pack of cigarettes |
| 13:51.16 | alterego | Heh |
| 13:51.26 | alterego | CamelLightsInCamelCase |
| 14:01.53 | hiemanshu | hmmm, for some reason calling is fucked up, I can make or receive calls but I cannot see the current status of the call or even cut the call |
| 14:02.17 | hiemanshu | err sorry, cannot even receive, I dont get the accept/reject button |
| 14:02.30 | hiemanshu | it worked for a while in the starting, and then after a reboot doesn't work anymore |
| 14:02.36 | alterego | Eek, works for me :/ |
| 14:03.23 | *** join/#harmattan rcg (~rc@f053144056.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:05.15 | hiemanshu | yeah, the screen just stays black |
| 14:05.35 | khertan1 | hiemanshu: did you play with the theme or change it ? |
| 14:05.52 | hiemanshu | khertan1: I edited the contants.ini to remove the branding thats all |
| 14:06.21 | hiemanshu | but I changed it back too, no change :/ |
| 14:06.32 | khertan1 | hum oh did you change it ? |
| 14:06.36 | khertan1 | remove it from the file ? |
| 14:06.52 | khertan1 | aegis isn't a problem for this type of file ? |
| 14:06.56 | hiemanshu | well you have to remove dev_ to remove the branding, I added it back too, and it didn't work |
| 14:07.00 | hiemanshu | it shouldn't be |
| 14:07.05 | hiemanshu | because it worked fine |
| 14:07.27 | hiemanshu | I used vi |
| 14:08.18 | khertan1 | anyway aegis is more violent in case he detect modification |
| 14:08.26 | khertan1 | so couldn't be that |
| 14:08.42 | hiemanshu | khertan1: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/N950 I did the first step and even reversed it |
| 14:09.02 | khertan1 | the first time i try to send sms or try to call it wasn't working until someone call me |
| 14:09.06 | DocScrutinizer | aegis just could kill the dialer app when dialer app is opening a modified ini file |
| 14:09.12 | khertan1 | i think there is some problem somewhere |
| 14:09.35 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: but others didn't have any issue |
| 14:09.44 | hiemanshu | alterego: you removed the branding too didn't you? |
| 14:09.46 | khertan1 | DocScrutinizer how does he compare file ? hash? modification date ? |
| 14:10.01 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, yeah, I don't think it's actually aegis-related |
| 14:10.13 | DocScrutinizer | khertan1: both I guess |
| 14:10.46 | alterego | hiemanshu: I removed the "DEVELOPER EDITION" window background |
| 14:10.51 | alterego | I still have it in the status bar. |
| 14:11.08 | hiemanshu | alterego: but editing constants.ini right?? |
| 14:11.42 | alterego | Yes |
| 14:11.51 | alterego | I think .. |
| 14:11.58 | alterego | It was either that or a .css file. |
| 14:12.30 | hiemanshu | alterego: and how did you edit it? |
| 14:12.58 | alterego | ssh root@localhost |
| 14:13.08 | alterego | nano /usr/share/blah/blah/constants.ini |
| 14:13.11 | hiemanshu | ah |
| 14:13.26 | hiemanshu | I did devel-su instead |
| 14:13.32 | alterego | I actually did it from my development machine, so it was ssh root@192.168.2.15 |
| 14:14.29 | hiemanshu | well still the same on the phone edit |
| 14:14.32 | khertan1 | X Error: BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter) 9 Extension: 145 (Uknown extension) Minor opcode: 1 (Unknown request) Resource id: 0x0 < easy to debug when something goes wrong in qml |
| 14:14.32 | hiemanshu | and it works for you |
| 14:15.53 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: let's hope THAT doesn't make any difference at least :-D (ssh vs devel-su) |
| 14:16.07 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: indeed ;) |
| 14:16.33 | Mek | ssh vs devel-su does make a difference for various things |
| 14:17.07 | DocScrutinizer | eeeek I knew it, I knew it ;-P |
| 14:17.13 | Mek | you can't use aegis-developer-mode from a ssh root@, but you can after a devel-su |
| 14:17.18 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: I suspected as much .. |
| 14:17.37 | alterego | I also changed my root password, btw .. |
| 14:17.58 | DocScrutinizer | amazing aegis let you do that X-P |
| 14:18.19 | alterego | Well, yes. If it didn't I would make sure the device was wrapped in tin foil :P |
| 14:19.19 | DocScrutinizer | Mek: err, sorry, what's aegis-developer-mode? |
| 14:19.58 | Mek | not sure what aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec does, but I think it is something with running binaries that are not from a package |
| 14:20.01 | DocScrutinizer | mind you, we have no real howto about aegis at all |
| 14:20.20 | khertan1 | chmod: /opt/test21/bin/test21: Operation not permitted mesg: not a tty sh: /opt/test21/bin/test21: Operation not permitted |
| 14:20.23 | khertan1 | mouhaha |
| 14:20.51 | Mek | ah, no, that was not devel-su, it was develsh that makes it possible to use that option... |
| 14:21.03 | Mek | too many similar tools... |
| 14:21.23 | DocScrutinizer | indeed, and way too sparse docs |
| 14:21.37 | DocScrutinizer | oooh, qgil online \o/ |
| 14:21.50 | hiemanshu | yeah |
| 14:21.53 | *** join/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 14:22.34 | crevetor | hello |
| 14:22.51 | crevetor | What apps have you guys installed on the N950 ? |
| 14:23.01 | DocScrutinizer | compass |
| 14:23.07 | DocScrutinizer | but it kinda sucks |
| 14:23.11 | hiemanshu | gonna reboot and see if editing using nano using ssh works |
| 14:23.13 | Mek | angrybirds :P |
| 14:23.23 | hiemanshu | Mek: its available? :/ |
| 14:23.44 | DocScrutinizer | :-P makes me think nor for us |
| 14:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | not* |
| 14:23.53 | Mek | hiemanshu: only in the internal repo :P |
| 14:24.01 | crevetor | yeah compass sorta sucks, I think i'm going to write a qml compass in a short while |
| 14:24.04 | hiemanshu | ah |
| 14:24.15 | crevetor | Mek: Where did you get it ? |
| 14:24.29 | crevetor | :'( |
| 14:24.34 | crevetor | Mek: you work at rovio ? |
| 14:24.57 | Mek | crevetor: no, I meant the internal nokia repo |
| 14:25.04 | crevetor | Mek: ok |
| 14:25.33 | DocScrutinizer | crevetor: quite probably we couldn't install it on our N950 even if we got access to it - thanks aegis |
| 14:26.03 | crevetor | docScrutinizer: maybe... |
| 14:26.10 | hiemanshu | I am waiting for docs on creating manifest files for aegis, need to package opencv |
| 14:26.35 | DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: err there's actually something on devel.n.com |
| 14:26.45 | khertan1 | hiemanshu: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide/Aegis_manifest_file_generation_tool |
| 14:28.00 | crevetor | hiemanshu: I sorta found some :) http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide/Aegis_manifest_syntax |
| 14:28.22 | hiemanshu | ah awesome, thanks |
| 14:29.19 | DocScrutinizer | I find the majority of harmattan devels wasting the majority of their time on messing with aegis, while Mr Stallman thinks community should completely refuse to touch devices that follow this TC concept |
| 14:29.34 | crevetor | http://dz015.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-or-python-security-fw-and-harmattan/ |
| 14:30.16 | DocScrutinizer | I tend to agree with Mr Stallman here |
| 14:30.55 | alterego | They told us that we could completely disable aegis .. |
| 14:31.03 | alterego | That the device was as open as fremantle ;) |
| 14:31.04 | DocScrutinizer | indeed |
| 14:31.30 | hiemanshu | alterego: its a lie |
| 14:31.33 | hiemanshu | everything is a lie |
| 14:31.34 | DocScrutinizer | I don't see this happening - any time neither right now nor any time in the future |
| 14:31.35 | crevetor | But then you still want your app to run on aegis-enabled devices... |
| 14:31.50 | khertan1 | DocScrutinizer: and the rest of the majority his wasting their time reimplementing a for a framework where component are now essential but no developped the open way |
| 14:32.04 | alterego | I'm sure there is a jailbreak :P |
| 14:32.29 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: yes, it's called R&D cert |
| 14:32.45 | alterego | Heh |
| 14:32.47 | DocScrutinizer | and it's missing on "our" devices |
| 14:32.55 | khertan1 | While they maybe block some things with aegis, they are the only one which provide python on a phone |
| 14:32.57 | khertan1 | so ... |
| 14:33.17 | alterego | otoh, meego for N950 doesn't have aegis :P |
| 14:33.21 | khertan1 | did you have ssh problem to connect to your n950 ? |
| 14:33.24 | spenap | question: when the apps -for the developer program- are ready, where are they supposed to be published? ovi store? apps.meego? others? |
| 14:33.50 | DocScrutinizer | khertan1: you might want to read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html |
| 14:33.51 | khertan1 | spenap: as dev want ... |
| 14:33.53 | crevetor | alterego: CE ? |
| 14:34.07 | alterego | MeeGo CE |
| 14:34.18 | crevetor | alterego: did you get it to run on the N950 ? |
| 14:34.37 | alterego | crevetor: no, but people have, and there are some instructions, though I don't think they're complete on the meego.com wiki |
| 14:34.39 | khertan1 | DocScrutinizer i didn't trust myself (brain lie most of the time) ... sometime i just made some compromise until a better solution is build |
| 14:35.03 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: meegoCE will need moslo aiui - otherwise won't even boot. I don't see moslo (yet) |
| 14:35.07 | crevetor | alterego: yeah and I guess you need to whipe harmattant to get CE working right ? |
| 14:35.12 | alterego | I don't plan on putting MeeGo proper on the N950 until I either get an N9, or I complete my obligation to the DDP |
| 14:35.32 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: btw, can you do me a favour and try to replace the kernel modules package under development mode / see what happens |
| 14:35.32 | cpscotti | ~moslo |
| 14:35.35 | Stskeeps | ? |
| 14:35.38 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: actually I think uboot is still the plan. |
| 14:35.42 | spenap | khertan, thx |
| 14:35.47 | crevetor | alterego: and there are only 6 more N9's ;) |
| 14:35.55 | alterego | crevetor: ;) |
| 14:36.01 | alterego | I'm waiting for 9pm tonight! :) |
| 14:36.29 | alterego | It's annoying, because all the easy codes were taken :P |
| 14:36.34 | alterego | Which is completely unfair. |
| 14:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: please instruct me prperly :-D Sorry I don't get it what you're asking me to do |
| 14:36.46 | alterego | But probably planned for this twitter teaser daily session. |
| 14:36.55 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: ah, well, build a kernel and see what happens if you tamper with the .ko's |
| 14:37.03 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: ie, overwriting the package |
| 14:37.44 | crevetor | alterego: same here. Still haven't understood what the last one was. The music of the video ? |
| 14:37.50 | alterego | Dunno |
| 14:37.58 | alterego | I thought it was an anagram of bickle |
| 14:38.09 | crevetor | alterego: I agree it's unfair. If I had been the first to know about the contest I would have an N9 |
| 14:38.13 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: javispedro tried to build and run the STOCK kernel, without any alterations, modulo buildtime in uname -a. He didn't build modules though. Result: instant brick. Device not even enabling display |
| 14:38.31 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: yes yes i know |
| 14:38.52 | alterego | crevetor: indeed, we all guessed the number plate of the taxi, and the PRND21 |
| 14:39.11 | crevetor | alterego: I have an alarm set on my phone for 8:50 (And I love the alarm on the N950) |
| 14:39.12 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I can't compile a kernel right now, as my HDD is at 98% so no empty space for installing the SDK |
| 14:39.17 | crevetor | alterego: yep |
| 14:39.19 | alterego | crevetor: :) |
| 14:39.25 | khertan1 | what i hate about qml is that most tutorial are outdated ... or false : http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/QML_paging_using_ListView |
| 14:40.01 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i'm looking into it and have gotten somewhere with it |
| 14:40.29 | khertan1 | alterego: crevetor: it s the word written on the taxi driver jacket |
| 14:40.34 | crevetor | alterego: funny thing is that I'm less interrested in the N9 now that I've played with the N950 I watch the videos and I'm like "meh I can plays with that interface whenever I want" The only appealing thing is the sleeker design (and the NFC maybe) |
| 14:40.40 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: like finding out things to do and things not to :P |
| 14:40.48 | khertan1 | alterego: crevetor: completly unreadable if you didn't rework and refine the video |
| 14:40.51 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: wow cool |
| 14:40.59 | crevetor | khertan1: really ? Shit I thought of that and then I was like "who can even read that anyways" |
| 14:41.21 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i can say as much as you're supposed to be able to flash your own kernel, so anything beyond that is bugs :P |
| 14:41.26 | khertan1 | crevetor: my crappy text recognition in video read only 1 char |
| 14:41.30 | alterego | khertan1: oh,right. |
| 14:41.34 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: and that'd disable aegis |
| 14:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: obviousy, and yes that's promising actually |
| 14:41.55 | crevetor | khertan1: and then I thought I was a geek for making mplayer output each frame in a separate png ;) |
| 14:42.17 | khertan1 | crevetor: i use mplayer ... do output each frame |
| 14:42.34 | khertan1 | then use my python ocr script which was made previously for captcha reading |
| 14:42.36 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i've gotten as far as getting told that my warranty is void, which is what is expected to happen, and then boot whatever kernel is there :P |
| 14:42.52 | crevetor | khertan1: the captchas for n9seconds ? |
| 14:43.07 | khertan1 | and i got 5 of the 14 already found code ... |
| 14:43.10 | khertan1 | but not more |
| 14:43.15 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: what? nolo tells you "warranty void"? LOL |
| 14:43.26 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: well, technically even using flasher on n900 voids your warranty |
| 14:43.28 | khertan1 | crevetor: no it s a general python module i m making for bypassing captcha |
| 14:43.36 | khertan1 | i didn't use it on the nokia website |
| 14:43.39 | Stskeeps | if i flash back to harmattan it disappears, so no idea if it records it |
| 14:43.52 | crevetor | khertan1: neat :) |
| 14:43.55 | DocScrutinizer | ho cares |
| 14:44.00 | DocScrutinizer | who* |
| 14:44.15 | khertan1 | so even if i didn't found it ... i'm happy that my ocr works :) |
| 14:44.23 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: what warranty? :D |
| 14:44.27 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I'm looking forward to a nice terse howto |
| 14:44.32 | khertan1 | it s far from perfect ... but enough |
| 14:44.32 | alterego | I suppose it's one of the good things about us not having any. |
| 14:44.53 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: hence why i'm investigating this.. single-boot meego ce is a definate target for us |
| 14:45.04 | crevetor | khertan1: yeah sounds neat. |
| 14:45.11 | crevetor | khertan1: Where are you located ? |
| 14:45.14 | khertan1 | DocScrutinizer: it s not a warranty ... it s a reverse one ... look at the contract ... you paid if you destroy your toy :) |
| 14:45.28 | DocScrutinizer | khertan1: so what? |
| 14:45.40 | khertan1 | DocScrutinizer :) |
| 14:45.45 | khertan1 | DocScrutinizer just jokking |
| 14:45.46 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: it gets complicated because we can't just say "boot to the microsd", we need to flash a rootfs and so on, so it's not as easy as it has been |
| 14:45.51 | Stskeeps | and rootfs is in fiasco format |
| 14:45.56 | khertan1 | crevetor: i live in north of paris ... france :) |
| 14:46.02 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: but it seems possible |
| 14:46.04 | khertan1 | ok ... time to go back to code |
| 14:46.21 | crevetor | khertan1: oh your french ? So am I. Where exactly ? |
| 14:46.36 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: aiui flasher refuses to flash unsigned or incorrectly signed non-matching images |
| 14:46.49 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: nah, you've just been unlucky |
| 14:46.49 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 14:46.51 | crevetor | did anyone open the n950 yet ? |
| 14:47.03 | crevetor | or has anyone opened the N950 yet ? |
| 14:47.04 | Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: for developer mode it's more open |
| 14:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: that's why we couldn't flash a new image with all the proprietary crap like Skype etc, even if we got it somehow |
| 14:48.18 | DocScrutinizer | crevetor: I looked at battery and why the SIM cover was so hard to close |
| 14:48.47 | crevetor | docScrutinizer: there's no hidden sdcard slot right ? |
| 14:48.57 | deimos | no :( |
| 14:48.58 | DocScrutinizer | crevetor: I also had a close look at USB receptacle and been pleased by what I've seen |
| 14:49.27 | crevetor | docScrutinizer: it's not surface mounted |
| 14:49.30 | crevetor | ? |
| 14:49.30 | mgedmin | there's a tiny bump in the plastic right next to the USB slot on my n950 |
| 14:49.37 | DocScrutinizer | nope, thru-hole |
| 14:49.42 | mgedmin | I wonder if I caused it somehow |
| 14:50.07 | crevetor | docScrutinizer: cool |
| 14:50.11 | DocScrutinizer | at least it looks like it's thru-hole |
| 14:51.01 | alterego | I have 3 small dents and a small scratch |
| 14:51.08 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: no bump here - but how could you cause sth like that? |
| 14:51.09 | alterego | I accidentally dropped it after having it for one day :D |
| 14:51.22 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: \o/ |
| 14:51.29 | DocScrutinizer | alterego: hinge survived? |
| 14:51.49 | alterego | Sure, it fell 2 feet onto concrete. |
| 14:51.54 | alterego | So not too bad. |
| 14:52.05 | alterego | It's actually perfectly fine, lucky it landed back down though :D |
| 14:52.07 | mgedmin | it's the plastic edge right next to the slot, and it looks a little bent |
| 14:52.14 | mgedmin | or maybe it's a manufacturing defect |
| 14:52.32 | mgedmin | I almost dropped it once, but caught it in the air |
| 14:52.34 | crevetor | what do you guys think about the "slide out" screen sturdyness ? |
| 14:52.41 | khertan1 | does there is a way to populate dynamically items in a VisualItemModel ? |
| 14:52.44 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: or somebody been not that gentle when opening the backcover |
| 14:52.50 | alterego | crevetor: seems fine to me, but opening it is a bit fiddly imo .. |
| 14:53.09 | crevetor | alterego: yeah I'm kinda scared I'm gonna break it at some point |
| 14:53.27 | mgedmin | I've a complaint about the mail client: it doesn't show me the body of emails sent by cron |
| 14:53.41 | alterego | crevetor: I open it by pulling on the top and gently sliding it out and up. |
| 14:53.56 | alterego | I've seen people open it by just pushing from the bottom and it looks like the screen will fly off. |
| 14:53.57 | DocScrutinizer | I'm usually opening the kbd by lifting screen at upper end landscape |
| 14:53.58 | mgedmin | pushes it gently from the bottom, and the slide opens up |
| 14:54.04 | alterego | Also though, I've not really used the keyboard much :/ |
| 14:54.06 | alterego | Except when SSHing |
| 14:54.15 | mgedmin | the vkb is surprisingly usable |
| 14:54.20 | alterego | DocScrutinizer: yeah, exactly the same as me. |
| 14:54.34 | mgedmin | doesn't leave much screen space to xterm itself, though |
| 14:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | in landscape the vkbd is kinda fine, in portrait it's outright unusable |
| 14:55.35 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: its usable, its just your huge hands :P |
| 14:55.47 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 14:55.53 | crevetor | alterego: I push on the bottom the feeling is really nice :) |
| 14:56.06 | crevetor | mgedmin: totally I was surprised too |
| 14:56.54 | crevetor | HAve you guys tried swiping the terminal ? |
| 14:57.03 | mgedmin | I wonder if it would be possible to add arrow keys to the vkb... |
| 14:57.11 | mgedmin | or modify the toolbar |
| 14:57.12 | cpscotti | am I the only one thinking that QML's way to report errors (SegFault) isn't that "quick" nor intelligent.. :/ |
| 14:57.27 | hiemanshu | for some reason my app doesn't show up on the launcher, I can open it just fine when I go to search and type the name, but nothing on the home screen, apparently it failed because it couldn't find libqt4-webkit |
| 14:57.28 | mgedmin | cpscotti, ain't C++ fun |
| 14:57.28 | crevetor | Just whiped out my Atrix 4G I wonder who I'm gonna give it to |
| 14:57.47 | lcuk | cpscotti, "On Error Resume Next" is not a better design pattern either :P |
| 14:58.27 | cpscotti | lcuk, well.. but at least tell me something.. seg faults are scary! |
| 14:58.42 | cpscotti | lol |
| 14:59.13 | cpscotti | when I first read about qml I thought I'd never see a seg fault using it.. :/ |
| 14:59.15 | lcuk | copious debug lines! |
| 14:59.31 | lcuk | bug 20099 just crashes the calculator in meego |
| 14:59.33 | MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20099 nor, High, ---, marko.saukko, NEW, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." . |
| 14:59.48 | lcuk | it does not even get a segfault |
| 15:00.06 | lcuk | it is like "arghhh no, fractions I can't do fractions" |
| 15:01.11 | DocScrutinizer | btw WTF for sorting in >> cat /proc/mtd << -> http://paste.debian.net/123507/ |
| 15:01.48 | Stskeeps | hm? |
| 15:03.46 | cpscotti | lcuk, I didn't know about that one.. haha lol! |
| 15:04.37 | DocScrutinizer | 0 3 1 2 5 4 6 seems the real sequence of mtd* on NAND, judging by start addr |
| 15:04.54 | DocScrutinizer | if I'm not mistaken |
| 15:05.26 | DocScrutinizer | errr scratch that |
| 15:05.41 | DocScrutinizer | size, not start addr |
| 15:05.47 | Stskeeps | yes, i was wondering if you had lost it for a second |
| 15:05.48 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 15:11.00 | DocScrutinizer | strings /dev/mtd1 is "fun" |
| 15:11.24 | DocScrutinizer | moslo is empty |
| 15:11.28 | DocScrutinizer | as expected |
| 15:11.36 | Stskeeps | yeah, you fill that in yourself |
| 15:11.58 | DocScrutinizer | wonder what's mtd6 "omap2-onenand" |
| 15:12.16 | Stskeeps | probably the rest of the nand, or part of emmc |
| 15:14.09 | DocScrutinizer | strings /dev/mtd6ro|wc -l ->194406 |
| 15:14.32 | DocScrutinizer | o.O |
| 15:16.03 | crevetor | Do you guys know if someone is already making NFC-enabled business cards ? |
| 15:16.57 | khertan1 | crevetor: http://www.mynfcbusinesscard.com/ |
| 15:16.58 | khertan1 | :) |
| 15:17.46 | crevetor | khertan1: htanks |
| 15:18.15 | crevetor | khertan1: so where exactly do you live ? (I'm frenc too) |
| 15:18.23 | crevetor | +h |
| 15:25.29 | *** join/#harmattan CaCO3 (~CaCO3@19-233.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 15:25.36 | khertan1 | crevetor: au nord de meaux ... mais je bosse sur panam |
| 15:25.49 | khertan1 | so ... good bye all ! |
| 15:25.58 | *** part/#harmattan khertan1 (~khertan@nax2.naxos-fr.net) |
| 15:26.10 | lardman | also heads off home |
| 15:26.13 | lardman | catch you all tomorrow |
| 15:26.25 | lardman | remembers to download chan logs before he goes though ;) |
| 15:31.20 | DocScrutinizer | lardman|gone: good |
| 15:31.35 | DocScrutinizer | it worked :-D |
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| 15:36.23 | hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: what worked? |
| 15:37.53 | DocScrutinizer | the psychological trick to make lardman remember to download chanlog when he leaves office |
| 15:38.53 | hiemanshu | ah |
| 15:38.55 | DocScrutinizer | it's a simple trick but usually works |
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| 15:53.24 | lcuk | fantastic! |
| 15:53.41 | lcuk | n950 screen seems to be mostly smudge resistant |
| 15:53.49 | lcuk | however the cover for the camera is not |
| 15:53.56 | lcuk | smeary photos ahoy! |
| 15:54.20 | hiemanshu | well yeah, a cleaning the screen with a cloth or your tee, cleans it like it was new |
| 15:54.30 | hiemanshu | but is scartch resistant? :P |
| 15:54.33 | hiemanshu | is it* |
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| 16:17.11 | rm_work | hrm i was noticing the opposite? that is is basically a fingerprint magnet |
| 16:18.01 | cpscotti | rm_work, hiemanshu it all depends on how greasy is your hand/pocket/environment.... :D |
| 16:18.20 | hiemanshu | pretty clean here :P |
| 16:18.38 | tomma | my device always has clear screen after i take it from my pocket |
| 16:18.48 | lcuk | i took photo with the camera and it was hazy until I cleaned the camera cover |
| 16:21.39 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@host-94-248-201-148.kabelnet.hu) |
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| 16:23.23 | Venemo | hey |
| 16:24.08 | hiemanshu | hey Venemo |
| 16:24.30 | Venemo | hey hiemanshu, what's up? |
| 16:24.46 | rm_work | woah wtf |
| 16:25.06 | rm_work | with the screen off, and looking at an angle, it has an X pattern all over it |
| 16:25.13 | rm_work | whats with that |
| 16:25.49 | Stskeeps | same with me |
| 16:26.18 | rm_work | do you know what causes that? :P |
| 16:26.27 | rm_work | is it something to do with the way the touch works? |
| 16:27.17 | Venemo | rm_work, what are you talking about? |
| 16:27.53 | rm_work | Venemo: turn off screen... hold phone at like 75 degree angle, so light reflects off it |
| 16:28.20 | rm_work | there's a grid of "X" (or could be a grid of "< >" |
| 16:28.22 | rm_work | ) |
| 16:28.40 | rm_work | yeah looks more like >< >< >< >< |
| 16:28.59 | Venemo | I can't see anything like that |
| 16:29.04 | Venemo | even if I clean my figerprints |
| 16:29.10 | crevetor | same here |
| 16:29.15 | hiemanshu | Venemo: playing with my N950 |
| 16:29.18 | rm_work | all over the screen, like 12 rows horizontal by a lot more vertical |
| 16:29.23 | Venemo | hiemanshu, you liking it? |
| 16:29.24 | hiemanshu | caant see anything |
| 16:29.25 | rm_work | crevetor: same here as in, you see it? |
| 16:29.29 | hiemanshu | Venemo: yeah, seems decent |
| 16:29.38 | rm_work | it's hard to notice |
| 16:29.41 | Venemo | hiemanshu, the hardware is very decent yes |
| 16:29.42 | crevetor | rm_work: as I don't see it |
| 16:29.46 | rm_work | hrm |
| 16:30.04 | rm_work | the angle has to be just right |
| 16:30.11 | rm_work | and look at it from landscape |
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| 16:33.22 | hiemanshu | rm_work: screen on or off? |
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| 16:34.09 | rm_work | <rm_work> with the screen off, and looking at an angle, it has an X pattern all over it |
| 16:34.11 | rm_work | yes, screen off |
| 16:34.46 | SpeedEvil | That's the capacitive thingy |
| 16:35.37 | rm_work | ok so yes, has to do with the touch stuff, figured :P |
| 16:35.47 | Venemo | achipa, since when is "unix:!symbian:!maemo5" == harmattan? |
| 16:38.14 | tomma | thats mac =) |
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| 16:53.01 | GeneralAntilles | Ah, Qt SDK is currently at 7.2GB |
| 16:53.06 | GeneralAntilles | No wonder my boot drive feels smaller. |
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| 16:59.06 | DocScrutinizer | how could I miss to notice http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3827 ? |
| 17:02.00 | fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Did you get your tab group working? |
| 17:02.11 | GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, haven't tried again yet. |
| 17:02.29 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, ha, told ya |
| 17:02.40 | DocScrutinizer | toldme? |
| 17:03.00 | MohammadAG | aegis-developer-mode |
| 17:03.04 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: hi |
| 17:03.14 | MohammadAG | told #maemo about it, but never knew about develsh |
| 17:03.58 | fiferboy | Has anyone here successfully created a Harmattan repo in OBS? |
| 17:04.04 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: note this is *not* any solution how to get rid of this rather useless "security" stuff |
| 17:04.18 | Elleo | fiferboy: yeah, things are a bit broken at the moment now it seems though |
| 17:04.30 | Elleo | packages aren't getting delivered into the repo even when they do get built |
| 17:04.44 | fiferboy | Elleo: I was wondering if something changed between creating my repo and trying to build in it |
| 17:04.51 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I don't think there's a reason to have security on the N950 |
| 17:04.55 | fiferboy | Elleo: Ah, that is exactly the problem I am having |
| 17:05.01 | fiferboy | Good to know it is not my setup |
| 17:05.11 | Elleo | fiferboy: yeah, it's not just a harmattan issue either, it's happening with other targets too it seems |
| 17:05.28 | Elleo | so just a matter of waiting until someone gets a chance to fix it really |
| 17:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nobody seems to notice there *is no* additional security in your virus requered to do a develsh command to allow bad things. ONLY added security is by *restricting* powers of any user on device, and to disable this, you need to leave the system - I.E. do sth via flasher, or enter a password, or sth like that which a malware can't do |
| 17:06.48 | fiferboy | I'll wait a while and try triggering a rebuild |
| 17:06.53 | fiferboy | Thanks for the info, Elleo |
| 17:06.58 | Elleo | no problem |
| 17:07.19 | MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I wonder if the N9 will have develsh then |
| 17:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | develsh grants *some* more power to user, but definitely not all power |
| 17:10.53 | piggz | is anyone using the meego obs to build for harmatten? |
| 17:12.24 | mzanetti | piggz: not yet (me at least). Is there already a repository that can be added to harmattan? |
| 17:12.37 | mzanetti | something like maemo-extras? |
| 17:12.53 | piggz | mzanetti: i dont think so yet, but you can use your own home repo |
| 17:13.31 | mzanetti | hmmm... ok... so for now it doesn't really give me more advantages compared to just build the .deb in qtcreator |
| 17:13.31 | piggz | but, i cant add meego:1.2:harmatten as a repo, although it appears to say it has added it, it doesn appear |
| 17:14.38 | fiferboy | piggz: I had to add the Harmattan repo through the raw editor, Jaffa had instructions somewhere |
| 17:15.01 | *** join/#harmattan rlinfati (~rlinfati@adsl-6-117.37-151.net24.it) |
| 17:15.03 | piggz | fiferboy: i just found a forum post saying to add armv7el only, noy i586 |
| 17:15.06 | piggz | s/not |
| 17:15.19 | fiferboy | piggz: But it looks like OBS is not publishing the builds right now due to an error |
| 17:15.22 | piggz | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25005&postcount=29 |
| 17:15.48 | fiferboy | piggz: Yeah, that's the post I meant. I used Jaffa's raw code |
| 17:16.27 | fiferboy | piggz: It may be the same error preventing builds from being published is keeping repos from being added |
| 17:16.41 | piggz | ok |
| 17:17.37 | mzanetti | piggz: btw. have you made any progress on your keyboard detection stuff? |
| 17:17.58 | piggz | mzanetti: no, i havnt looked at it again |
| 17:18.14 | piggz | fiferboy: the repo added when i used the raw editor |
| 17:18.29 | mzanetti | piggz: To me it looks like QSystemDeviceInfo has the information you need |
| 17:18.42 | piggz | mzanetti: thx, i will look |
| 17:18.47 | fiferboy | piggz: I guess the easy picker isn't working still |
| 17:19.55 | piggz | mzanetti: certainly looks good http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0-tp/qsystemdeviceinfo.html#InputMethod-enum |
| 17:22.12 | *** join/#harmattan vandenoever (~oever@kde/vandenoever) |
| 17:23.54 | djszapi | DocScrutinizer: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=mc&project=home%3Adjszapi |
| 17:24.26 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: \o/ |
| 17:24.32 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: thanks |
| 17:26.00 | *** join/#harmattan seif (~seiflotfy@e183145203.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:26.14 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, now what's the expert's advice how to install it the most easy way? |
| 17:26.46 | DocScrutinizer | c&p the URL to ssh whet ? |
| 17:26.57 | DocScrutinizer | wget* |
| 17:27.32 | DocScrutinizer | or use Web browser to surf to that webpage? |
| 17:29.40 | *** join/#harmattan MohammadAG (~MohammadA@pool-108-14-83-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:30.59 | djszapi | Unfortunately, c-obs is buggy and it cannot push the debian packages to the repository, but this will be the place: http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/djszapi/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan/armel/ |
| 17:31.50 | rlinfati | uff, in "16gb" you can not store all ovi maps for offline use :( i need a n950-64gb :) |
| 17:32.19 | rlinfati | btw... you can use ovi maps without register nokia account |
| 17:33.53 | *** join/#harmattan harbaum (~quassel@krlh-4d0379f3.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:38.07 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi: "will" as in >I'll look there later and eventually it will show up there<? I already was about to come back here to report about another fail of mine |
| 17:39.21 | DocScrutinizer | clicked thru all the tabs and links on that website and didn't find anything that looked like it might install on N950 |
| 17:39.47 | DocScrutinizer | except https://build.pub.meego.com/package/binary?arch=armv7el&filename=mc-dbg_4.7.0.9-2_armel.deb&package=mc&project=home:djszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan which simply times out |
| 17:40.58 | djszapi | yeah, they have bugs. I am not sure when they can publish it. I can send you the debian file, if you would like to have it right now, but yeah, that would be the place what I gave you, when they fix the bugs. |
| 17:47.42 | rlinfati | someone is using oauth in harmattan ? or i need package its ? or usa as static lib ? |
| 17:48.12 | djszapi | please package it |
| 17:48.24 | djszapi | also polkit-qt ;) |
| 17:48.41 | djszapi | I would appreciate it at least =p |
| 17:49.18 | rlinfati | yes... but kqoauth ? qoauth? ... etc.. :/ how a modern mobile OS not have a oauth library :( |
| 17:59.47 | *** join/#harmattan smoku (~spectrum@xkh0g2.infr.xiaoka.com) |
| 18:05.09 | *** join/#harmattan GeneralAntilles (~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles) |
| 18:10.01 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28297.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:19.28 | *** join/#harmattan antman8969 (6c06b0b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.6.176.176) |
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| 18:23.18 | frals | fuck sake someone is already using frals on nokia developer :< |
| 18:23.31 | Stskeeps | isn't it yourself? |
| 18:23.31 | Stskeeps | :P |
| 18:23.47 | frals | did a reset password for it just in case it is me :D |
| 18:24.40 | frals | wow, it was me! never knew i signed up there |
| 18:25.01 | lcuk | lol frals |
| 18:25.15 | lcuk | wonders how the world would cope with 2 frals |
| 18:32.10 | Venemo | frals :D |
| 18:32.24 | Venemo | lcuk, for that matter, how could the world cope with 2 lcuks? :P |
| 18:32.52 | Venemo | Stskeeps, out of pure curiousity, could you tell me the status of MeeGo CE on da N950? |
| 18:33.03 | Stskeeps | Venemo: we're ironing out some MOSLO stuff |
| 18:33.23 | Venemo | what is MOSLO? |
| 18:33.29 | Stskeeps | dual boot loader thingie |
| 18:33.48 | Venemo | okay, and how's MeeGo CE going on it? |
| 18:35.17 | Stskeeps | performing really well |
| 18:35.45 | Venemo | that is nice |
| 18:35.55 | Venemo | do the phone features work? |
| 18:36.00 | Stskeeps | yes |
| 18:36.20 | Venemo | :) |
| 18:36.52 | Venemo | okay, it's only a question of time then until I stuff my N950 with TRUE MeeGo :) |
| 18:37.13 | Venemo | which reminds me, I have my N900 still, so I'll probably stuff that with MeeGo too very soom |
| 18:38.07 | Venemo | soon |
| 18:39.32 | antman8969 | does anyone know of a class reference for the come.meego qml components? |
| 18:40.04 | GeneralAntilles | antman8969, http://library.developer.nokia.com/ ? |
| 18:40.13 | GeneralAntilles | Should be buried in the Harmattan stuff. |
| 18:40.18 | GeneralAntilles | Hard to link directly to, though. |
| 18:40.18 | Mek | and the sources... (in /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/meego |
| 18:40.39 | antman8969 | i think the sources will do. been looking through that site forever... |
| 18:40.48 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-172-115.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:41.18 | djszapi_ | Venemo: I am sorry, I have been really busy today. I think Christian is right about that. |
| 18:43.10 | *** join/#harmattan gri_ (~gri@p4FCEDE36.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:50.30 | *** join/#harmattan Venemo (~Timur@fedora/Venemo) |
| 18:52.33 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 18:58.53 | Venemo | djszapi, Christian is right about what? |
| 18:59.18 | djszapi_ | what he wrote. |
| 18:59.24 | Venemo | djszapi, you said that it is possible, and it's just a bug in QtCreator |
| 18:59.27 | Venemo | hmm |
| 18:59.55 | djszapi_ | well, you cannot copy thing as non-root into system folders. |
| 19:00.11 | djszapi_ | running a binary should be alright'ish though if you do not need desktop and after things, I guess. |
| 19:00.16 | Venemo | all right |
| 19:00.29 | Venemo | thanks djszapi_ :) |
| 19:01.10 | djszapi_ | I am not that much of expertise though, thus I sent a mail to Elena, our architect (who is not at Nokia anymore though). :) |
| 19:01.30 | Venemo | the architect of Aegis left the team? |
| 19:01.34 | Venemo | that sounds interesting |
| 19:02.03 | djszapi_ | almost everybody left the security team, but it is true for the whole organization in the mobile area. |
| 19:02.41 | Venemo | what? everybody left? |
| 19:02.59 | gri_ | the accounts-ui guy also left (got an email reply when I asked for help) |
| 19:03.13 | hiemanshu | lol |
| 19:03.18 | djszapi_ | Venemo: who cares about windows phone development :D |
| 19:03.27 | Venemo | djszapi_, :D |
| 19:03.40 | Stskeeps | Venemo: a lot of people left, many to intel |
| 19:03.44 | Venemo | djszapi_, don't mention it... I've got a paid project for WP7 |
| 19:03.52 | Venemo | Stskeeps, better to Intel than else |
| 19:04.06 | djszapi_ | thinks Intel is not any better than Nokia. |
| 19:04.18 | Venemo | djszapi_, why not? |
| 19:04.37 | djszapi_ | they chose selinux for meego |
| 19:04.58 | djszapi_ | and quite a few other things. They do not support KDE any longer since the meego thing. |
| 19:05.09 | DocScrutinizer | echo "open kbd, lock device with powerbutton!"; cd /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032; sleep 30; echo disabled >engine3_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4 5; do echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel$i/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo disabled >engine1_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4; do echo 0 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo run >engine1_mode; echo run >engine3_mode |
| 19:05.12 | djszapi_ | They rejected almost all the KDE proposals at the meego conference and so on. |
| 19:05.47 | Venemo | djszapi_, can you tell me what you have against SELinux? |
| 19:06.08 | djszapi_ | Venemo: try to just configure it and let me know if you could manage it this year :D |
| 19:06.11 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi_: I shall remind you... |
| 19:06.16 | Venemo | djszapi_, it had been working for so much time on my Fedora, I never had any problems |
| 19:06.26 | Venemo | djszapi_, there is even a GUI for its configuration! |
| 19:06.38 | Venemo | djszapi_, is there a GUI for configuring Aegis? |
| 19:06.52 | djszapi_ | Venemo: If I had time, I would look for the relevant linux kernel thread. |
| 19:07.02 | djszapi_ | where even Linus was completely against selinux :) |
| 19:07.31 | djszapi_ | and we proposed a nice meego security model, called smack. Intel thought it is not okay, they will use selinux, ok no comment :) |
| 19:09.07 | djszapi_ | Venemo: it is not aegis v. selinux arguement. It is more like smack v. selinux :) There was also a long discussion with Ryan about it on the mailing list, but the linux security people ... did not really appreciate what Ryan wanted |
| 19:09.44 | djszapi_ | but stopping supporting KDE is a bigger fault to me. |
| 19:09.51 | djszapi_ | anyway, it is just my opinion :) |
| 19:10.29 | Venemo | djszapi_, umm, well, I thinkt he community can support KDE, what does Intel have to do with that? |
| 19:10.45 | djszapi_ | financial support of the sprints, events. |
| 19:11.14 | djszapi_ | and it is really not nice they rejected all the KDE talk proposals for the meego conference. |
| 19:13.26 | Venemo | hm, well |
| 19:13.34 | Venemo | at least they aren't abandoning the platform... |
| 19:16.35 | DocScrutinizer | Venemo: test my "KIT light"! |
| 19:17.07 | djszapi_ | DocScrutinizer: I am not sure touchsupport will work fine in mc :) |
| 19:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | hey, I'm not concerned about touch support |
| 19:17.30 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, what's that? |
| 19:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | echo "open kbd, lock device with powerbutton!"; cd /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032; sleep 30; echo disabled >engine3_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4 5; do echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel$i/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo disabled >engine1_mode; for i in 1 2 3 4; do echo 0 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; echo 255 >leds/lp5523\:channel8/brightness; sleep 1; done; echo run >engine1_mode; echo run >engine3_mode |
| 19:18.51 | Venemo | hm, is there any way I can paste this in there? |
| 19:19.05 | DocScrutinizer | sure, to a ssh session ;-) |
| 19:19.19 | vandenoever | wonders how to put attachments and images on posts on forum.meego.com |
| 19:19.31 | DocScrutinizer | you didn't think I typed that on device, did you? :-D |
| 19:19.53 | crevetor | docScrutinizer: is that to get the kb leds working ? |
| 19:20.00 | hiemanshu | vandenoever: upload it to imgur.com and use the [IMG] tag |
| 19:20.03 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 19:20.13 | hiemanshu | the LEDs on mine work fine |
| 19:20.21 | DocScrutinizer | here too |
| 19:20.26 | crevetor | Mine don't... |
| 19:20.30 | hiemanshu | but calling is fucked up |
| 19:20.33 | DocScrutinizer | given ALS doesn't see too much light |
| 19:21.06 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I'm right now on wincrap... can't really do SSH from here |
| 19:21.19 | Mek | putty? |
| 19:21.20 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I haven't reinstalled my Linux yet :( |
| 19:21.23 | hiemanshu | Venemo: putty |
| 19:21.26 | vandenoever | hiemanshu: this post has images served from the forum server: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3903 |
| 19:21.30 | Venemo | hmm |
| 19:21.35 | Venemo | I'll give it a shot |
| 19:21.57 | djszapi_ | DocScrutinizer: mh would be funy on N9 since there is no hw kb, nor arrow buttons on the virtual keyboard :) |
| 19:22.06 | djszapi_ | * mc would be.. |
| 19:22.16 | hiemanshu | vandenoever: advanced reply, scroll below the text area, you should find 'Manage Attachments' or something like that |
| 19:22.18 | DocScrutinizer | ooh yep |
| 19:22.57 | DocScrutinizer | djszapi_: the missing arrow buttons are a mega fail |
| 19:23.09 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, agreed... |
| 19:23.19 | hiemanshu | no hw kbd is a fail |
| 19:23.26 | DocScrutinizer | hehe |
| 19:23.33 | djszapi_ | DocScrutinizer: yep, but the Harmattan Ui Designers.... |
| 19:23.40 | djszapi_ | hiemanshu: actually, it is a success for me |
| 19:23.47 | djszapi_ | I like the VK much better |
| 19:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | oh yeah, don't get me started about UI designers |
| 19:24.16 | hiemanshu | djszapi_: I like HW kbs, so I can feel the buttons and know what I am typing while staring at the teacher in class :P |
| 19:24.52 | vandenoever | hiemanshu: thanks, just uploaded a png (that got converted to jpg, but ok) |
| 19:25.07 | hiemanshu | np |
| 19:25.19 | DocScrutinizer | o/ bbl |
| 19:25.23 | hiemanshu | is there any image at all to reflash the N950? |
| 19:26.04 | *** join/#harmattan hardaker (~hardaker@mail.hardakers.net) |
| 19:26.09 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, for a brief time, the keyboard lights light up and the LED flashes quicker |
| 19:26.16 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, is that the desired effect? |
| 19:26.25 | *** join/#harmattan lbt (~david@Maemo/community/contributor/lbt) |
| 19:27.31 | DocScrutinizer | the desired effect is to show how to control LEDs |
| 19:27.58 | Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I see :) |
| 19:28.13 | djszapi_ | hiemanshu: how is this feeling different for HW or V keyboard ? |
| 19:28.28 | djszapi_ | you can get used to the VK as well |
| 19:28.28 | vandenoever | what's a good place to upload deb files for n950? source code is on gitorious |
| 19:31.37 | djszapi_ | vandenoever: why don't you put it into c-obs ? |
| 19:32.19 | *** join/#harmattan gri (~gri@p4FCED17E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:35.42 | vandenoever | djszapi_: because i dont know what that is |
| 19:39.20 | kimju | build.pub.meego.com |
| 19:40.40 | *** join/#harmattan cpscotti (~cpscotti@46.208.181.50) |
| 19:40.47 | kimju | the harmattan build seems to be still work in progress. if configured as specified in http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=25005&postcount=29 it builds things ok, but doesn't publish the resulting packages |
| 19:41.06 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-172-115.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:41.39 | *** join/#harmattan npm (~npm@cpe-76-90-30-220.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:41.49 | kimju | "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created" |
| 19:47.57 | DocScrutinizer | kimju: djszapi said there are bugs |
| 19:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=mc&project=home:djszapi |
| 19:48.51 | DocScrutinizer | .deb missing |
| 19:49.49 | kimju | yeah, noticed the comment. so it's not just me :) |
| 19:50.03 | DocScrutinizer | btw djszapi, you know mc has a "train buttons" function. So you could define whatever you like for arrow keys. E.g ctrl+u/d/l/r |
| 19:50.13 | DocScrutinizer | s/d/e/x |
| 19:50.37 | kimju | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Akimju%3Aharmattan |
| 19:56.05 | crevetor | Hey |
| 19:56.34 | crevetor | let's say I have a local project that's git versionned and I want to build it in osc. How can I do that ? |
| 19:56.45 | crevetor | I tried osc mkpac name_of_the_package |
| 19:56.55 | crevetor | but it complains about the directory being git versionned |
| 19:57.56 | *** join/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-172-115.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:58.05 | crevetor | alterego: it's almost 9 ;) |
| 19:58.13 | alterego | Oh yeah . |
| 19:59.08 | apol | hi guys, I need to use cmake to compile my project and the package I've found depends on libarchive1 which can't be found on the repositories |
| 19:59.10 | apol | any clue? |
| 20:05.39 | crevetor | alterego: shit I think the next clue is actually tomorrow |
| 20:06.02 | alterego | Lame |
| 20:06.10 | crevetor | alterego: yeah... |
| 20:19.46 | alterego | Oh well, I'll see you the same time tomorrow ;) |
| 20:20.05 | crevetor | alterego: see ya |
| 20:23.48 | djszapi_ | Venemo: heh, I have just gotten the answer from Elena. |
| 20:32.00 | crevetor | https://projects.developer.nokia.com/qmlcompass/files/qmlcompass_0_0_1_armel.deb |
| 20:32.21 | crevetor | could some of you try this out and tell me if it's accurate on your device ? |
| 20:32.59 | mgedmin | oooh, me, me, I want to try it! |
| 20:33.38 | mgedmin | can't ssh to my n950, going to reboot the damn router |
| 20:34.02 | crevetor | you can just browse there with your N950 and it will install it |
| 20:34.20 | mgedmin | you want me to type that URL in by hand? no chance! |
| 20:34.32 | mgedmin | hm, bit.ly... |
| 20:34.52 | crevetor | :) |
| 20:35.14 | lcuk | mgedmin, barcode.ly :P |
| 20:35.18 | lcuk | lardman|gone, ping |
| 20:35.44 | mgedmin | hey, is anyone able to position the cursor at the very beginning of the browser's URL bar? |
| 20:35.53 | mgedmin | are my fingers too fat? |
| 20:36.01 | crevetor | mgedmin: Yeah I can |
| 20:36.20 | crevetor | mgedmin: hold your finger still and a magnifying class comes up |
| 20:36.42 | mgedmin | no it doesn't |
| 20:36.49 | mgedmin | although I remember seeing it *once* |
| 20:36.59 | mgedmin | got it! |
| 20:37.37 | mgedmin | bit.ly == bitly.com? |
| 20:38.00 | mgedmin | oh, bit.ly is unhappy about the trailing / |
| 20:38.12 | *** join/#harmattan Sicelo (qhubekela@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 20:38.24 | mgedmin | ok, worked now |
| 20:38.42 | mgedmin | malware blah blah I agree |
| 20:38.43 | mgedmin | :) |
| 20:38.43 | djszapi_ | apol: when OBS gets it done: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=libarchive&project=home%3Adjszapi |
| 20:39.00 | mgedmin | <insert long description, indented with spaces> :) |
| 20:39.00 | crevetor | mgedmin: can you give me the bit.ly url ? |
| 20:39.06 | crevetor | :) |
| 20:39.21 | mgedmin | why does installation take so long? apt? |
| 20:39.30 | mgedmin | crevetor, http://bit.ly/r75aw6 |
| 20:39.32 | crevetor | mgedmin: probably apt |
| 20:39.33 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:39.41 | mgedmin | I have it installed now |
| 20:39.41 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 20:40.36 | mgedmin | crevetor, are you sure you're rotating the arrow in the right direction? |
| 20:40.49 | crevetor | pretty sure |
| 20:41.00 | crevetor | Oh noze |
| 20:41.07 | mgedmin | :) |
| 20:41.12 | crevetor | SHit It just remembered what I did on my other project |
| 20:41.15 | crevetor | let me fix that |
| 20:41.29 | mgedmin | I turn right x degrees, the arrow turns right 2x degrees to the same side |
| 20:42.08 | mgedmin | also, it seems to be off by 90 degrees -- when I'm in landscape mode |
| 20:42.16 | crevetor | it's actually 360-azimuth |
| 20:42.37 | mgedmin | seems accurate in portrait |
| 20:43.03 | mgedmin | at least when the phone is oriented with the top part of the screen pointing north, the compass arrow also points north |
| 20:43.26 | mgedmin | the statusline says "accuracy: 100%" |
| 20:43.33 | vandenoever | crevetor: looks nice, but it's wrong like others said |
| 20:43.38 | mgedmin | I assume that accuracy measurement comes from the hardware? |
| 20:43.51 | crevetor | mgedmin: yes |
| 20:44.02 | crevetor | mgedmin: comes with the sensor reading |
| 20:44.07 | mgedmin | nods |
| 20:45.19 | *** join/#harmattan Noobmonk3y (~Noobmonk3@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust164.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 20:45.32 | crevetor | it si wrong in landscape for sure... |
| 20:45.50 | crevetor | Ok let me fix that and repackage |
| 20:47.53 | Venemo | djszapi_, what is the answer? |
| 20:48.37 | djszapi_ | alterego: I pushed the screen package to build on c-obs, let us see |
| 20:48.50 | djszapi_ | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=screen&project=home%3Adjszapi |
| 20:50.42 | mgedmin | ooh, screen |
| 20:55.37 | crevetor | mgedmin: could you reinstall it ? |
| 20:55.53 | crevetor | I just uploaded an updated version |
| 20:57.58 | achipa | Venemo: that's a joke. a bad one. |
| 21:00.18 | piggz | if anyone in the n950 club want to update their google latitude, you can now! (i hope ;) http://www.piggz.co.uk/pgzlatitude2_0_0_1_armel.deb |
| 21:01.10 | Noobmonk3y | oooooooooo :) nice piggz |
| 21:01.30 | Noobmonk3y | is it me, or does the n950 have a pretty damn good battery life? |
| 21:01.48 | piggz | its better than the n900, but no symbian killer :) |
| 21:01.51 | Noobmonk3y | have not put a sim in it for 2 days, but it has been on with 4 apps running, still 70+% battery |
| 21:02.04 | Noobmonk3y | still has been connected to wireless and used a bit |
| 21:02.11 | javispedro | is it you, when you use it heavily it is slightly higher than n900 only |
| 21:02.16 | Noobmonk3y | lol true :P |
| 21:02.38 | javispedro | considering my n900 battery is two years old that's no compliment. |
| 21:02.47 | Noobmonk3y | my sgs2 is better then the n900 (not hard) but still down to 20% by bedtime normalyl |
| 21:03.22 | piggz | im sure if i took the sim out of my 950, it would have great battery life...its 3g internet that is the killer while @ work |
| 21:03.29 | Noobmonk3y | yeah gd point |
| 21:08.11 | piggz | right, im off for the night...feedback welcome if anyone test the latitude app |
| 21:10.01 | javispedro | for example I've had to try and remove the 10Hz tick in paused SDL applications... otherwise they suck the battery badly, for some reason even more than on n900.. |
| 21:22.07 | mgedmin | crevetor, same url? |
| 21:22.20 | crevetor | mgedmin: yes |
| 21:23.26 | *** part/#harmattan djszapi_ (~lpapp@80-186-172-115.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 21:23.38 | mgedmin | so, you don't believe in version numbers? :) |
| 21:23.46 | crevetor | naaah ;) |
| 21:24.59 | mgedmin | hm, still seems wrong |
| 21:25.24 | mgedmin | seems 90 degrees flipped |
| 21:25.43 | crevetor | in portrait or landscape ? |
| 21:25.48 | mgedmin | so, in portrait, horizontally, screen top pointing north: arrow shows north correctly |
| 21:26.12 | mgedmin | turn 90 degrees so screen top points east: arrow now points to the south |
| 21:26.21 | crevetor | it does weird things when I tilt the device... |
| 21:26.25 | mgedmin | turn 90 degrees more, screen top points south: arrow shows north correctly |
| 21:26.35 | SpeedEvil | Doing it right is hard |
| 21:26.37 | mgedmin | turn 90 degrees more, screen top points west: arrow shows south again |
| 21:26.53 | SpeedEvil | you need to work out where the earths surface is, and project a notional compass onto it |
| 21:27.13 | SpeedEvil | And then have the display as a viewport onto this notional compass |
| 21:27.15 | SpeedEvil | (sort-of) |
| 21:27.16 | mgedmin | just write a set of unit tests :) |
| 21:27.30 | crevetor | hum... |
| 21:27.30 | mgedmin | and then play with minus signs until they pass |
| 21:27.45 | mgedmin | screen top points north-east: arrow now points east |
| 21:27.52 | crevetor | anyways got to go... |
| 21:28.00 | mgedmin | crevetor, can has source code please? |
| 21:28.08 | crevetor | hold on a sec |
| 21:28.15 | vandenoever | what is a good SVG editor for use with QML? inkscape save svg 1.2 which is too new |
| 21:29.06 | javispedro | too new for what? |
| 21:29.12 | vandenoever | for use with qml |
| 21:29.17 | javispedro | improbable |
| 21:29.27 | SpeedEvil | You start out with the geomagnetic model at your location, to get the dip angle of the field (ideally), then use that and then use the accel to get 'down', and work out the angle between down and the magnetic field, then go from there |
| 21:29.28 | javispedro | qt accepted svg 1.2 way back nearly 3 or 4 years ago |
| 21:29.31 | vandenoever | the files i make with inkscape and save as plain svg look bad |
| 21:29.43 | javispedro | bad in what way? |
| 21:29.43 | vandenoever | svg 1.2 is not a standard yet |
| 21:30.00 | vandenoever | transparent box with black text looks like black box on device |
| 21:30.05 | javispedro | vandenoever: tiny |
| 21:30.18 | vandenoever | right, svg 1.2 tiny would be fine |
| 21:31.27 | vandenoever | but that's not what inkscape purports to save |
| 21:32.40 | javispedro | which version of inkscape are you using? |
| 21:32.53 | vandenoever | 0.48 |
| 21:33.31 | crevetor | mgedmin: https://gitorious.org/qmlcompass/qmlcompass/trees/master |
| 21:33.40 | mgedmin | crevetor, thanks! |
| 21:34.01 | crevetor | Ok I'm off |
| 21:34.02 | mgedmin | *grumble* *grumble* github has better UI *grumble* |
| 21:34.04 | crevetor | see ya |
| 21:34.15 | crevetor | oh well.. |
| 21:34.16 | javispedro | vandenoever: I'm using r9654 (a bit later than 0.48 iirc) and it saves 1.1 save for soome stuff about flowed text |
| 21:34.37 | mgedmin | what's the git clone URL for that repo? |
| 21:34.58 | mgedmin | ah, I can click on "QMLCompass" and *then* gitorious will tel me |
| 21:35.23 | mgedmin | so, time to install Qt Creator, I guess |
| 21:36.28 | *** join/#harmattan javispedro (~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro) |
| 21:37.02 | vandenoever | javispedro: i want normal text, not flowed text and when i create text box it's saved as flowed text for no apparent reason |
| 21:45.58 | mgedmin | oh dear, I remember seeing a web page describing the installation process somewhere... |
| 21:46.06 | mgedmin | there are so many web pages and so little space in my memory/bookmarks |
| 21:47.03 | mgedmin | I gather I have to do a custom install, since harmattan support is "experimental" and not enabled by default |
| 21:47.07 | javispedro | bah, I still prefer IRC to twitter. |
| 21:47.53 | mgedmin | will I need Qt Designer? I recall hearing on IRC that it "doesn't work" |
| 21:48.05 | javispedro | vandenoever: there was a FAQ item about that |
| 21:48.30 | javispedro | vandenoever: google a bit, it was something about right click then convert to sth |
| 21:49.38 | javispedro | the nth-char limit on twitter makes my arguments sound dumb. |
| 21:52.50 | DocScrutinizer | dang, this QMLcompass is nuts! |
| 21:52.59 | javispedro | QMLcompass? |
| 21:53.11 | javispedro | it probably just follows that qorientation sensor |
| 21:54.11 | DocScrutinizer | http://bit.ly/r75aw6 |
| 21:54.18 | DocScrutinizer | LOL |
| 21:54.57 | javispedro | btw since my aegis "lock-out" I've not been able to add my nokia account information again ("Service not available") |
| 21:55.12 | DocScrutinizer | eeew |
| 21:55.20 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: you have? |
| 21:55.39 | DocScrutinizer | err, it started to work after reflash here |
| 21:56.00 | DocScrutinizer | initially I had "service not..." |
| 21:56.12 | javispedro | sighs |
| 21:56.20 | javispedro | so it might actually really be a server failure? |
| 21:58.00 | mgedmin | which builds do I need? Harmattan Platform API or Meego 1.2 Harmattan API? |
| 21:58.19 | DocScrutinizer | lemme check if it works right now |
| 21:58.29 | rm_work | mgedmin: my stuff fails equally well on both :P |
| 21:59.07 | DocScrutinizer | maps err !!Maps just starts |
| 21:59.40 | mgedmin | whoa, FakeVim? sounds interesting |
| 22:00.06 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: !!maps does start here indeed, and it shows background disabled map, then popups Nokia login prompt |
| 22:00.26 | javispedro | and clicking on it gets me "Service not available" in ~1 sec, too short for at imeout |
| 22:00.33 | DocScrutinizer | not here, just woks |
| 22:00.54 | javispedro | that's how it used to work pre-lockout |
| 22:01.04 | javispedro | wonder if I will have to reflash again.. |
| 22:01.50 | rm_work | is there a package list anywhere? |
| 22:01.58 | rm_work | how do i actually find anything to install? |
| 22:02.00 | DocScrutinizer | well it recovered from fist lockout with 3 reboots... ;-P |
| 22:02.01 | rm_work | don't see a package manager |
| 22:02.09 | javispedro | 3 reflashes, haha |
| 22:02.19 | javispedro | rm_work: there's no extras-devel, no nokia store... |
| 22:02.22 | rm_work | also BTW, maps loads for me |
| 22:02.32 | javispedro | rm_work: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos |
| 22:03.05 | DocScrutinizer | I wonder where's that friggin accounts in settings |
| 22:03.13 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: it's not in settings, but rather separate app |
| 22:03.18 | DocScrutinizer | lemme try search |
| 22:03.28 | mgedmin | this qt creator thing is fancy |
| 22:04.31 | mgedmin | and the emulation is in-effing-credibly slow |
| 22:04.42 | DocScrutinizer | ouch, that took a while. I felt aegis workin in background, til screen came up |
| 22:05.47 | mgedmin | iirc there's a way to have qt creator deploy to my n950? |
| 22:06.17 | rm_work | mgedmin: yeah and it works well |
| 22:06.29 | rm_work | mgedmin: there's docs somewhere i found for setting it up, it's pretty easy |
| 22:06.35 | mgedmin | tools -> options -> maemo -> add! |
| 22:06.54 | rm_work | you run the SDK app on the device, and it will give you the password it needs to deplot the ssh keys |
| 22:06.58 | DocScrutinizer | asks me for password when trying to sync |
| 22:07.09 | rm_work | *deploy |
| 22:07.22 | mgedmin | oh, I need to run something on the device |
| 22:07.46 | *** join/#harmattan apol_ (~apol@234.Red-79-146-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:08.33 | DocScrutinizer | but yeah, seems to work |
| 22:08.39 | javispedro | sighs |
| 22:08.43 | javispedro | reflash time |
| 22:09.07 | mgedmin | hm |
| 22:09.08 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: |
| 22:09.15 | mgedmin | "Could not connect to host: Botan library exception: Botan: Decoding error: BER: Length field is too large" |
| 22:09.39 | mgedmin | using a pubkey that I've just deployed |
| 22:09.40 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:09.45 | mgedmin | it works when I use password auth |
| 22:09.58 | mgedmin | shrugs and checks /home/developer/authorized_keys |
| 22:10.47 | javispedro | ponders a best way to solve qole's aegis problems |
| 22:11.05 | javispedro | he would need to keep a list of digsigs for the chroot image's binaries |
| 22:11.09 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: prior to reflash try the several reset options |
| 22:11.17 | javispedro | and when mounting it programatically load them into kernel |
| 22:11.34 | antman8969 | has anyone seen how to make a number only vkb without having to create a custom one? |
| 22:11.37 | javispedro | because from reading the code the validor keeps the hashlist per mounted device/superblock |
| 22:11.53 | DocScrutinizer | qole's problem? |
| 22:11.55 | *** join/#harmattan seif_ (~seiflotfy@e183145203.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:12.17 | DocScrutinizer | OMFG!°!! |
| 22:12.27 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: author of EasyDebian -- a .deb with a large .ext2 image that is mounted, chrooted into, and contains a full Debian installation |
| 22:12.33 | DocScrutinizer | no way to attach external storage? |
| 22:12.44 | javispedro | of course you can attach external storage |
| 22:12.55 | javispedro | it's just that aegis will refuse to run anything from it |
| 22:13.04 | javispedro | (exception: "developer mode" and current_user=="user") |
| 22:13.04 | DocScrutinizer | hah |
| 22:13.09 | DocScrutinizer | thought as much |
| 22:13.42 | javispedro | otherwise, he might want to drop the idea of using images alltogether, now that / is ext4. |
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| 22:14.06 | mgedmin | woot, it runs! |
| 22:14.10 | mgedmin | I'm awesome |
| 22:15.29 | DocScrutinizer | got the feeling to be out of loop |
| 22:15.58 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: seen N950 "KIT light"? |
| 22:16.05 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: got that feeling too, I am very busy this week with no time to follow all news... and next's week I might be away. |
| 22:16.24 | javispedro | s/'s// ;P |
| 22:16.36 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: did a lil facy and messed with LEDs |
| 22:17.23 | javispedro | ah |
| 22:17.26 | javispedro | video? :) |
| 22:17.50 | DocScrutinizer | nah |
| 22:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | [2011-07-20 21:17:59] <DocScrutinizer> echo "open kbd, lock device |
| 22:18.06 | *** join/#harmattan TSCHAKeee (~TSCHAKeee@173.9.2.181-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 22:18.21 | DocScrutinizer | was boted :-D |
| 22:18.26 | javispedro | heh |
| 22:18.27 | javispedro | btw |
| 22:18.28 | DocScrutinizer | bored |
| 22:18.36 | TSCHAKeee | arg, i am having issues deploying from Qt Creator. It installs the qml files alongside my application in /opt |
| 22:18.37 | javispedro | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=26750&postcount=5 (my post) |
| 22:18.43 | TSCHAKeee | but it's looking for the qml files in /home/developer |
| 22:18.49 | TSCHAKeee | does nayone know how to fix this? |
| 22:18.53 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: early this week I tried to get fmrx working |
| 22:18.59 | javispedro | see that post for a few details |
| 22:19.00 | javispedro | no luck so far |
| 22:19.20 | javispedro | but I can confirm there's the tuner, it can tune, and it can report signal strength. But I don't know how to get the audio. |
| 22:19.31 | javispedro | (and signal strength greatly increases when HPs are connected) |
| 22:19.43 | TSCHAKeee | has no forehead ridges left from banging head against wall. |
| 22:19.57 | TSCHAKeee | javispedro: maybe there's a hidden i2c port somewhere? ;) |
| 22:20.07 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: nice :-D |
| 22:20.21 | javispedro | TSCHAKeee: there's probably a i2_s_ port somewhere ;) |
| 22:20.26 | rm_work | what is it with nokia putting radios in things and then hiding the fact that it exists? :P |
| 22:20.54 | DocScrutinizer | HAH |
| 22:21.00 | DocScrutinizer | now you hooked me |
| 22:21.02 | TSCHAKeee | so nobody has had issues with qml files loading from a QtCreator deployment? |
| 22:21.29 | rm_work | TSCHAKeee: i sat down and installed QtCreator and did the setup in like 5 minutes, and it worked fine for the hello world app |
| 22:21.40 | rm_work | and worked fine for my projects afterwards... |
| 22:21.45 | DocScrutinizer | rm_work: I'm ahppy about it, otherwise here you had to pay montly fee |
| 22:21.49 | mgedmin | yay, got qmlcompass to point north! |
| 22:21.51 | rm_work | i assume it's an issue with your config for QtCreator |
| 22:22.13 | rm_work | DocScrutinizer: what? montly fee to ... recieve radio signals? |
| 22:22.15 | mgedmin | in portrait mode |
| 22:22.24 | DocScrutinizer | rm_work: sure! |
| 22:22.34 | rm_work | DocScrutinizer: to WHO? cellphone company? |
| 22:23.00 | DocScrutinizer | err, the radio station |
| 22:23.10 | mgedmin | whee vim mode is just awesome |
| 22:23.16 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's a bit more complex |
| 22:23.30 | rm_work | umm |
| 22:23.37 | rm_work | how do they know you are recieving signals? |
| 22:23.39 | rm_work | >_> |
| 22:23.50 | DocScrutinizer | they got *spies* |
| 22:23.57 | rm_work | when you buy a radio from walmart do they require you to sign up and pay? >_> |
| 22:24.07 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 22:24.27 | mgedmin | ok, OrientationSensor is not the right thing to use |
| 22:24.39 | mgedmin | how do I discover if my app is in landscape or in portrait mode in QML? |
| 22:24.45 | rm_work | DocScrutinizer: ok, i officially completely do not understand what you're talking about then |
| 22:25.12 | DocScrutinizer | http://gez.de/ |
| 22:25.19 | DocScrutinizer | simple as that |
| 22:25.40 | DocScrutinizer | 99.6% are paying, the rest gets an occasional visit |
| 22:28.06 | rm_work | umm |
| 22:28.11 | rm_work | no, still totally not making sense |
| 22:28.35 | rm_work | it seems like they're trying to do something that is logistically impossible |
| 22:28.43 | rm_work | there is no real way to enforce this at all |
| 22:28.54 | rm_work | or even really get metrics on enforcement |
| 22:30.27 | DocScrutinizer | http://www.focus.de/kultur/videos/gez-spots-gebuehren-werbung-ade_vid_17975.html |
| 22:30.28 | rm_work | well heading home... |
| 22:30.41 | rm_work | i'll watch that when i get home |
| 22:33.12 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I extended the post, and added v4l packages: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=26750&postcount=5 |
| 22:33.25 | javispedro | it has instructions and brief dmesg dumps |
| 22:33.27 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: they really get spies that run around and ring doors and watch windows to spot TV users that aren't on their list of paying customers |
| 22:34.06 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: 2013 the state enforces the fee on each household |
| 22:34.20 | DocScrutinizer | so no more spy ringing your door |
| 22:35.09 | DocScrutinizer | rm_you: you should know first and 2nd channel, as the regional ones, are public hand |
| 22:35.36 | *** join/#harmattan NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28297.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:36.22 | DocScrutinizer | it was only like 1990 when we go tcommercial radio broadcast and TV at all here in Germany |
| 22:37.42 | DocScrutinizer | right now you have to pay for your PC connected to internet, as you *could* surf to URLs like www.tagesschau.de |
| 22:39.20 | DocScrutinizer | I'm wondering why they don't offer radio via landline phone call-in and then charge for each telephone |
| 22:39.31 | mgedmin | woot, fixed qmlcompass! |
| 22:40.03 | DocScrutinizer | obviously they did as well, so from 2013 on they charge *every* household, no matter if you got a radio / TV or not |
| 22:40.23 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: aaah, so no more weird rotations? |
| 22:40.29 | mgedmin | yep |
| 22:40.46 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: cool |
| 22:40.58 | *** part/#harmattan crevetor (~antoine@bureau.ubity.com) |
| 22:41.01 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: feel free to reproduce, I'm sure it must be a stupid overlook on my part |
| 22:41.06 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: same ly.tyty URL? |
| 22:41.14 | mgedmin | no |
| 22:41.18 | mgedmin | :) |
| 22:41.19 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 22:41.40 | mgedmin | crevetor's last version (same bit.ly url) works fine in portrait mode |
| 22:41.49 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: a) which chip is the FMRX on? |
| 22:41.59 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: wl1273 |
| 22:42.03 | mgedmin | correction: works fine while the orientation sensor returns TopUp |
| 22:42.07 | DocScrutinizer | b) do we have a I2S for that chip? |
| 22:42.16 | DocScrutinizer | umm then no |
| 22:42.17 | javispedro | if anyone has 1273 for that chip I'd appreciate. |
| 22:42.21 | javispedro | err |
| 22:42.26 | javispedro | s/1273/datasheet/ |
| 22:42.26 | DocScrutinizer | ds |
| 22:42.43 | DocScrutinizer | lemme check what I found "back when" |
| 22:42.43 | javispedro | technically, the chip has |
| 22:43.01 | javispedro | an "analog" path for fmrx |
| 22:43.33 | javispedro | and a "digital" path, which seems to be connected to a mcbsp something, which seems to be somekind of DMA (my knowledge of McBSP is nil at best) |
| 22:43.40 | *** join/#harmattan vgrade (~martinbro@cpc2-nrte22-2-0-cust128.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 22:44.14 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: |
| 22:44.19 | javispedro | the analog path -- no idea where it is connected. if it is at all. |
| 22:44.19 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: |
| 22:44.21 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 9 17:12:43 (none) kernel: [ 0.214965] ALSA device list: |
| 22:44.22 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 9 17:12:43 (none) kernel: [ 0.214996] #0: dfl61-twl4030 (twl4030) |
| 22:44.24 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 9 17:12:43 (none) kernel: [ 0.214996] #1: dfl61-dac33 (tlv320dac33) |
| 22:44.41 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: missing #2 ;) |
| 22:44.49 | DocScrutinizer | no #2 here |
| 22:44.56 | javispedro | check /proc/asound/cards |
| 22:45.31 | javispedro | aiui it is loaded as a module a bit later on the boot process |
| 22:45.38 | DocScrutinizer | yeah |
| 22:46.25 | *** join/#harmattan meegoexperts_mob (~Adium@i-83-67-88-78.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:46.53 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 9 17:12:43 (none) kernel: [ 0.272552] asoc: WL1273 BT/FM codec <-> omap-mcbsp-dai-2 mapping ok |
| 22:47.12 | javispedro | exactly |
| 22:47.31 | javispedro | this is the same way the std audio codec for speakers is connected, albeit on a different channel |
| 22:47.35 | DocScrutinizer | Jul 9 17:12:43 (none) kernel: [ 5.580261] wl1273_fm_module_init |
| 22:49.20 | DocScrutinizer | ls -l /dev/snd/ |
| 22:49.28 | DocScrutinizer | :-D |
| 22:50.06 | *** join/#harmattan andre__ (~andre@Maemo/community/bugmaster/andre) |
| 22:52.25 | javispedro | well, no idea, and no documentation. |
| 22:53.18 | *** join/#harmattan xerxes2 (~xerxes2@1-2-6-1a.mdp.mlm.bostream.se) |
| 22:54.30 | mgedmin | where's the deb that qt creator creates? |
| 22:54.31 | DocScrutinizer | javispedro: amixer -c2 |
| 22:54.42 | mgedmin | oh, it's outside my build dir |
| 22:54.49 | DocScrutinizer | now say "thanks!" :-P |
| 22:55.03 | javispedro | DocScrutinizer: note my updated post, I edit several channels already ;P |
| 22:55.36 | DocScrutinizer | which channels? |
| 22:55.38 | javispedro | but those are not documented either, albeit I mostly know what the Mode, Audio, and Codec Mode mixers do by now. |
| 22:55.56 | DocScrutinizer | oh |
| 22:56.17 | DocScrutinizer | indeed quite some update on #5 |
| 22:56.19 | mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, you can try http://mg.pov.lt/qmlcompass_0_0_1-0mg1_armel.deb |
| 22:56.41 | mgedmin | now how do I send the patch to crevetor? |
| 22:59.31 | *** join/#harmattan dm8tbr (dm8tbr@2001:41b8:0:f010::2) |
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| 23:00.58 | mgedmin | creates a merge request on gitorious |
| 23:01.39 | DocScrutinizer | *curses* missing c&p on e.g xterm |
| 23:01.43 | *** join/#harmattan khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-553-1-203-38.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:02.23 | DocScrutinizer | HAH, I only need mg.pov.it I guess |
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| 23:04.57 | DocScrutinizer | :sigh: |
| 23:05.05 | DocScrutinizer | obviously not |
| 23:05.55 | mgedmin | want a bit.ly link? |
| 23:06.19 | mgedmin | hey, why doesn't mg.pov.lt front page list all the irc logs I'm archiving? |
| 23:06.36 | mgedmin | 'cause I'm a lazy bastard, that's why |
| 23:08.10 | mgedmin | sleeptime |
| 23:11.49 | javispedro | some food for thought: |
| 23:11.50 | DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: please reduce decimals of accuracy to max 5 ;-P |
| 23:12.05 | javispedro | at the moment, thanks to aegis, webos guys can run a debian chroot more easily than we can on n950. |
| 23:12.52 | javispedro | (otoh, we can run custom kernels. they are stuck with stock) |
| 23:13.02 | javispedro | or "we will be able to" run custom kernels ;) |
| 23:14.30 | DocScrutinizer | btw on 33.876676857567% accuracy this thing is outright useless |
| 23:14.40 | javispedro | how does it measure accuracy? |
| 23:14.59 | DocScrutinizer | nfc |
| 23:15.21 | javispedro | installs this qmlcompass knowing that my device is FULLY safe and SANBOXED thanks to Aegis.... |
| 23:15.24 | DocScrutinizer | but at 66.6666666665348816% it starts to work |
| 23:15.25 | javispedro | NOT! |
| 23:16.08 | javispedro | mgedmin: was your patch supposed to lock orientation? |
| 23:16.55 | DocScrutinizer | nope not here |
| 23:17.12 | javispedro | I think this is clearly one application that should be locked |
| 23:19.43 | DocScrutinizer | hmm |
| 23:22.17 | mgedmin | javispedro, no, I don't know how to do that |
| 23:23.44 | mgedmin | my diff is at https://gitorious.org/qmlcompass/qmlcompass/merge_requests/1 |
| 23:23.50 | mgedmin | I agree that locking is the right thing here |
| 23:24.05 | mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, accuracy was always 100% when I played with it :) |
| 23:26.11 | DocScrutinizer | I got 33.3333333432674408%, and 66.66666666667846746some% so far |
| 23:26.48 | mgedmin | qml/main.qml: text: "Accuracy : " + accuracy*100 + "%, angle : " + angle + "°" |
| 23:26.49 | DocScrutinizer | and 0% when I shocked the thing with a speaker magnet |
| 23:27.04 | mgedmin | how do I round things up in what is this, javascript? |
| 23:28.50 | DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest 1 bar for >33%, 2 bars for >66%, and 3 bars (full) for >95% |
| 23:29.05 | Elleo | Math.round() iirc |
| 23:29.55 | DocScrutinizer | also getting this as a plugin for camera would be really nice :-) |
| 23:30.23 | DocScrutinizer | eben printed into the picture taken |
| 23:30.24 | mgedmin | my sister was surprised Maps wasn't making use of the compass for rotation |
| 23:30.31 | mgedmin | or was it Drive? |
| 23:30.34 | DocScrutinizer | or in those additional info |
| 23:31.02 | DocScrutinizer | both |
| 23:32.41 | mgedmin | ok, Math.round worked |
| 23:32.50 | TSCHAKeee | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKyryIUK1Ao <-- the new orbiter prototype coming up for the very first time on the n950 |
| 23:33.34 | mgedmin | building a .deb now ... |
| 23:34.21 | mgedmin | how do I update the .deb version number from Qt Creator? |
| 23:35.40 | mgedmin | if I edit debian_harmattan/changelog directly and then press Build, it says "no changes, etc, nothing to be done" |
| 23:35.53 | mgedmin | oh, I need to Run, not just Build, if I want a .deb |
| 23:36.41 | mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, http://mg.pov.lt/qmlcompass_0_0_1-0mg2_armel.deb reports accuracy as 33% or 67% |
| 23:36.50 | mgedmin | you'll have to talk to the original author about bars |
| 23:37.17 | mgedmin | my sister's android phone has a compass app that doesn't show accuracy |
| 23:37.38 | mgedmin | but when you put a magnet next to it, pops up a box with text "abnormal magnetic field located, please (do something that I didn't read fast enough)" |
| 23:41.52 | mgedmin | ok, now I have to convince qt creator to build fbreader |
| 23:42.02 | mgedmin | *yawn* tomorrow |
| 23:42.18 | DocScrutinizer | night mgedmin |
| 23:54.15 | *** join/#harmattan MeeGoExperts (~Adium@unaffiliated/meegoexperts) |
