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| 03:47.51 | vasanth2 | valorie:: Wow lol.. did you all have to go through them painfully? |
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| 09:00.00 | r0bby | vasanth2: it's...painful but yeah |
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| 13:10.46 | kl13nt | Hey, I have a quick questions. If I submit 3 proposals to 3 organizations, what happens? |
| 13:11.18 | kl13nt | If all of them are accepted, will I have a choice? Or will GSoC automatically discard the remaining proposals that have not been accepted yet? |
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| 17:58.38 | murad | is any peep here still applying to org's |
| 18:05.56 | vasanth2 | r0bby I'm sorry on their part.. now I see what the mentors have to go through each year.. 200 proposals lol.. damn.. I will try my best to make a worthy enough proposal for my mentor at least just because of this |
| 18:07.08 | vasanth2 | murad yes there are still people applying.. I am going to submit my final proposal only tomorrow.. 1.5 hours before the deadline ð
|
| 18:08.58 | kl13nt | vasanth2 I was just informed by a mentor that some students had issues downloading their Google Docs proposals for final submission. Make sure to prepare for that. |
| 18:10.05 | kl13nt | "maybe download the google doc to have a safety copy. one mentor posted about 45 minutes ago, that his students (several! ) had problems to access their google ddocs and werre not able to make changes and not able to submit" |
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| 18:24.43 | PulkoMandy | waiting until the last minute is never a good idea |
| 18:25.22 | kl13nt | Agreed. |
| 18:25.27 | mhaeuser[m] | if that's unclear, some info site said that the final proposal can actually be updated till the deadline |
| 18:26.22 | kl13nt | There's still the part where submitting multiple proposals will make only 1 of them accepted that's quite misleading for me. |
| 18:26.44 | kl13nt | Let's say I submitted 3 proposals to 3 organizations, and all of them are to be accepted, what would *actually* happen? |
| 18:26.49 | vasanth2 | kl13nt oh my god that's unexpected.. thank you so much! I will make sure to download it soon and to pass the message to other students |
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| 18:27.31 | PulkoMandy | kl13nt, the organizations will decide between them |
| 18:27.56 | kl13nt | How so? |
| 18:28.04 | PulkoMandy | the best thing to do is to mention this in your proposals and give your order of preference in case you get selected by multiple orgs |
| 18:28.35 | kl13nt | Oh, so the mentors of each organization can communicate regarding certain students? |
| 18:28.40 | PulkoMandy | the mentors will just see a "this student has also been accepted by some other org" with an email contact for the other mentor in this case |
| 18:28.50 | kl13nt | Ohhh |
| 18:28.54 | PulkoMandy | and one of them has to unaccept you |
| 18:29.34 | vasanth2 | PulkoMandy Thanks, I will keep that in mind! I spent too much time making PRs and planning out the project that I submitted my first draft only 36 hours ago ð |
| 18:29.34 | vasanth2 | The mentor is yet to respond, it's my bad for being this late.. so I wanted to make sure to edit some things in case they reply by tomorrow ð
|
| 18:30.06 | kl13nt | PulkoMandy Thanks for the tip! |
| 18:31.49 | mhaeuser[m] | do mentors usually reply to drafts? |
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| 18:38.35 | PulkoMandy | it depends on the organization, as it was discussed earlier, some orgs get about 10 proposals, some get several hundreds |
| 18:38.54 | PulkoMandy | in one case it's possible to watch the drafts and reply to everyone, in the other, not so much |
| 18:39.29 | PulkoMandy | probably these organizations will focus first on students that contacted them in other ways as well (submitting pull requests, joining IRC channels or mailing lists to discuss the project, etc) |
| 18:42.32 | mhaeuser[m] | right, thanks |
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| 18:49.33 | kl13nt | I'm communicating with two organizations now. One replied once today after days of submitting my draft, and the other has been cooperative ever since, hundreds of comments going back and forth. So it's safe to assume that some get loads of proposals while others get very few. |
| 18:51.40 | mhaeuser[m] | Interesting, I got the most comments from unaffiliated people. I was actually surprised some are expecting feedback :) |
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| 19:01.07 | kl13nt | Some organizations don't have a public channel for draft proposals, hence it'd make sense to expect feedback from mentors |
| 19:08.20 | r0bby | vasanth2: it's not terrible -- Google Code-in that was hard to mentor and run |
| 19:11.37 | r0bby | Oh my god |
| 19:11.46 | r0bby | got some good proposals already |
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| 21:24.48 | nmzs | Hi everybody, I know this must have been extensively asked, but believe it or not, I came to know about GSoC last Friday. Does an application now even make sense? It was a tweet by a participating company which drew my attention, indicating to me it might not be senseless. However, I couldn't really manage to get in prior contact and putting |
| 21:24.49 | nmzs | together a well-prepared application is hard enough in that timeframe. Anybody with some expericences in comparable situations? |
| 21:25.50 | mhaeuser[m] | I mean, an application doesn't take long to write, if you have something actually interesting it may be worth it |
| 21:29.25 | nmzs | I think I will get it done but am pretty sure a 24-hour application by definition looks *much* different than one which another took a week. So my question is basically: Is there any known successful application with comparable conditions :) |
| 21:29.58 | mhaeuser[m] | Companies do not get early access to the final proposals, so it does not really matter |
| 21:30.20 | mhaeuser[m] | People here report mixed results on whether they got any response to their drafts |
| 21:30.48 | r0bby | nmzs: it could -- I know someone who applied last second and got selected but you can always try. |
| 21:31.21 | r0bby | nmzs: you are up against a clock though because most have a coding prerequisite. |
| 21:31.43 | r0bby | and 24hr turn-around for non-trivial coding tasks is not feasible |
| 21:31.49 | mhaeuser[m] | do the mentors even see the timestampof the submission? And if they do, would it not get skewed by subsequent updates to the proposal? |
| 21:31.51 | r0bby | plus the proposal is work |
| 21:31.57 | r0bby | mhaeuser[m]: yes, we do |
| 21:32.08 | nmzs | Thanks! I will try, because I already started, but as you can imagine I feel like I should protect myself from unrealistic beliefs |
| 21:32.55 | mhaeuser[m] | r0bby: interesting, do you see multiple dates (updated)? Or even a full edit history? |
| 21:33.51 | r0bby | Wee see somehting like this https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/52T4HaLd/image.png |
| 21:33.58 | nmzs | @r0bby I have coding background, actually a lot. I know this sounds confusing as I lately heard of GSoC but from the skillset it might work |
| 21:34.05 | mhaeuser[m] | fun, thank you |
| 21:34.47 | r0bby | nmzs: that's all fine and dandy but there are still contribution requirements |
| 21:35.36 | mhaeuser[m] | I guess it depends a lot on the culture of the community you intend to join |
| 21:35.43 | nmzs | @r0bby I have some, this is not the right platform to figure them out, but vene the references are quite presentable |
| 21:35.53 | nmzs | it is just the timeframe which bothers me |
| 21:36.46 | PulkoMandy | Try it, if it doesn't work you will have wasted only a day on it anyways? |
| 21:37.43 | mhaeuser[m] | I don't think it took me longer than an hour to type down my proposal, it depends on how well you figured it out already I guess |
| 21:38.16 | r0bby | nmzs: You need to contribute to their project. They want you to become familiar with their codebase. |
| 21:38.46 | r0bby | That said, you are up against a clock, chatting here isn't good time management. You have less than 24hrs |
| 21:39.24 | PulkoMandy | You can submit a proposal explaining the situation and continue to discuss things and do code contributions during the application review period |
| 21:39.39 | nmzs | @PulkoMandy true that, and I will, but let's phrase it this way - I just want to know what to reasonably expect |
| 21:39.55 | mhaeuser[m] | may I ask where you intend to apply? |
| 21:40.31 | nmzs | @r0bby I am about to leave, but again, it might be helpful to just see what comes back on such questions |
| 21:41.44 | nmzs | mhaeuser[m] I sorted out the "big" ones I was attracted to in the first place. The biggest i one (sub-)project of NumFocus |
| 21:42.35 | mhaeuser[m] | ah, no clue |
| 21:43.03 | mhaeuser[m] | just it usually helps to not show up 5 h before the deadline out of nowhere, if they have some mailing list / IRC / whatever, probably knock there too |
| 21:44.49 | nmzs | mhaeuser[m] yeah, I actually submitted to. But then again I was like, everything I will end up to say is pretty much what my proposal will look like |
| 21:45.28 | nmzs | sorry not submitted but subscribed |
| 21:46.36 | mhaeuser[m] | it doesn't matter too much what you say and more than you do say something, in my opinion anyway |
| 21:47.19 | mhaeuser[m] | it's a signal you have some sort of ambition, it established some social familiarity (the more you talk (but not off-topic!), the more they can get a picture of what to expect from you), etc |
| 21:47.47 | nmzs | okay, but then it doesn't matter to establish contact right with application... because, I can't provide any info and they can't to me neither prios to deadline |
| 21:48.07 | mhaeuser[m] | e.g. where I applied, I do not think anyone got a direct response to the drafts, but there was some activity regarding the proposals and people on the mailing list |
| 21:48.25 | r0bby | nmzs: your proposal would have been amazing to be honest. |
| 21:48.25 | r0bby | Don't just drop the proposal without contact -- that's a fast way to not get selected |
| 21:48.48 | mhaeuser[m] | nmzs: well yes, that is the pragmatic approach, but even when people try, thing are not always pragmatic |
| 21:48.58 | r0bby | If an org is worth their salt, they will require you fix some non-trivial bugs |
| 21:49.06 | nmzs | alright, I will send an email, but I already look silly here. I thought it will not be much better in such email |
| 21:49.10 | mhaeuser[m] | first impression matters a lot more than it sometimes should :) |
| 21:50.18 | nmzs | @r0bby they are worth it |
| 21:50.36 | nmzs | mhaeuser[m] thanks |
| 21:51.33 | mhaeuser[m] | good luck |
| 21:52.37 | nmzs | @mhaeuser[m] thanks again! bye everybody, I have some application to put together :) |
| 21:55.17 | r0bby | er I meant that they know ow to select quality students |
| 22:00.32 | mhaeuser[m] | the dark magic skill :) |
| 22:13.29 | r0bby | Yeah, definitely a hard skill |
| 22:13.55 | r0bby | but the one universal way to prevent accepting bad students is to require non-trivial code contributions |
| 22:14.44 | mhaeuser[m] | you mean prior to the admission? |
| 22:18.29 | Mc | yes |
| 22:21.02 | mhaeuser[m] | I think KDE requires that too, yeah |
| 22:21.04 | r0bby | mhaeuser[m]: yeah |
| 22:21.10 | r0bby | and they do |
| 22:21.29 | r0bby | mhaeuser[m]: every year in October sometime, mentors usually get together and we share tips and tricks |
| 22:21.40 | r0bby | One year, my org had all of our students fail |
| 22:22.00 | mhaeuser[m] | if I manage to live with Linux for another year or two, maybe I will try for KDE GSoC :) |
| 22:22.32 | r0bby | mhaeuser[m]: There's other orgs |
| 22:23.14 | mhaeuser[m] | sure, just I generally like KDE stuff, just KDE is not very interesting outside of Linux at the moment |
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| 22:23.38 | r0bby | mhaeuser[m]: FWIW, i use Konversation and that's about it |
| 22:24.10 | r0bby | One of the winning points about KDE from a community stance is having valorie around -- I've met her she's an amazing person |
| 22:24.27 | mhaeuser[m] | I use the Plasma Desktop, and they basically combine the usability pros of Windows and macOS, just not as polished as latter |
| 22:25.02 | mhaeuser[m] | and KDE has a development culture I can agree with well, with release schedules, consistent internal and external design, etc |
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| 22:26.02 | kl13nt | Can more than 1 student be assigned to the same project? |
| 22:26.23 | mhaeuser[m] | you mean project or org? |
| 22:26.34 | kl13nt | Project |
| 22:26.51 | mhaeuser[m] | that would be awkward honestly |
| 22:26.58 | r0bby | kl13nt: no. |
| 22:27.10 | r0bby | kl13nt: and this is covered in the FAQ, which you should read. |
| 22:27.34 | r0bby | The number of people who don't read information put out is telling about how successful they'll be at the program. |
| 22:27.46 | kl13nt | Whoa, why so salty mate? |
| 22:27.47 | kl13nt | I read it, but all I could get from it is that a mentor can work with multiple students |
| 22:28.00 | kl13nt | And I could've forgotten since I did that weeks ago |
| 22:28.12 | r0bby | kl13nt: eh, all is forgiven |
| 22:28.25 | r0bby | just a lot of people don't read |
| 22:29.13 | mhaeuser[m] | I cannot say I ever observed those "when people don't do X, they fail" actually being true irl :) |
| 22:29.56 | kl13nt | Doesn't mean all people don't read, and doesn't mean you can be that mena. |
| 22:29.57 | kl13nt | mean*. |
| 22:33.31 | kl13nt | Where does it say that in the FAQ? I just re-read it, doesn't mention that. |
| 22:34.24 | mhaeuser[m] | > Can a group submit a proposal together to work on a single project? |
| 22:34.25 | mhaeuser[m] | No, only an individual may work on a given project. |
| 22:34.30 | kl13nt | This FAQ? https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/faq |
| 22:34.33 | mhaeuser[m] | to be fair, the question is phrased badly |
| 22:34.45 | kl13nt | That's a group |
| 22:34.50 | kl13nt | Look at this scenario |
| 22:34.56 | kl13nt | An organization has a huge project |
| 22:35.01 | kl13nt | Multiple students applied |
| 22:35.08 | r0bby | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/NvzB0VIG/image.png |
| 22:35.23 | kl13nt | And their applications all look good. They want to assign the project to multiple students. |
| 22:35.41 | kl13nt | Each student applied independently. |
| 22:35.41 | r0bby | kl13nt: they can break the project up into separate projects |
| 22:35.42 | mhaeuser[m] | that is not how the term "project" works there |
| 22:35.43 | mhaeuser[m] | a project is one component you work on |
| 22:36.38 | r0bby | kl13nt: projects can re-scope things so that work can be done by multiple students but ultimately, you work independently from the other students |
| 22:36.39 | kl13nt | So like a 'task' or a 'feature' more or less? |
| 22:36.55 | mhaeuser[m] | in a bigger scale, more or less, yes |
| 22:36.56 | r0bby | kl13nt: Projects are generally feature-oriented. |
| 22:37.22 | r0bby | Like you can have one student working on a backend API functionality and another student working on the frontend |
| 22:37.22 | kl13nt | Can the organization do that re-scoping after the deadline? |
| 22:37.24 | r0bby | that's valid |
| 22:37.31 | r0bby | kl13nt: yes. |
| 22:37.42 | r0bby | My org did that last summer. |
| 22:37.46 | kl13nt | Sorry if I'm asking too much, one last question. |
| 22:37.57 | kl13nt | Org A has projects 1, 2, 3, and 4 |
| 22:38.09 | kl13nt | Multiple students apply to project 4 |
| 22:38.24 | kl13nt | The organization has the control to either accept all of them and then rescope the project? |
| 22:38.37 | kl13nt | So each student takes a feature/part? |
| 22:39.12 | mhaeuser[m] | probably, but is it not common that orgs ask for own proposals (loosely based on their suggestions)? |
| 22:39.36 | mhaeuser[m] | my org had some outdated proposal list where some of the stuff was already done, or no longer applicable iirc |
| 22:42.02 | kl13nt | Hmm |
| 22:50.57 | r0bby | kl13nt: You make the tough choice of choosing one or two |
| 22:51.56 | r0bby | kl13nt: the way things work is Google tells us how many we can accept, we request a minimum and maximum number of students we'd like to take an Google gives us the total number we can accept. We then make the hard choice of ranking them and either choose or reject proposals. |
| 22:52.12 | r0bby | kl13nt: the way things work is Google tells us how many we can accept, we request a minimum and maximum number of students we'd like to take and then Google gives us the total number we can accept. We then make the hard choice of ranking them and either choose or reject proposals. |
| 22:53.08 | kl13nt | So generally Google don't care how many students you assign to each project, just the total number you can generally accept as an organization. |
| 22:54.18 | kl13nt | kl13ntSo generally Google don't care how many students you assign to each project, just the total number you can generally accept as an organization. |
| 22:56.43 | r0bby | kl13nt: Uh one project per student. you can break the project tasks up, that's valid. The timeline this year is halved roughly |
| 22:57.17 | kl13nt | @r0bbOh, okay. Thanks for the info! |
| 22:57.25 | kl13nt | @r0bby: Oh, okay. Thanks for the info! |
| 22:57.57 | r0bby | kl13nt: Like each student is considered one slot -- so if your community has other priority projects, select the student who did the best -- sometimes it might not be easy to do |
| 22:58.32 | kl13nt | r0bby: Got it. That's more info than I could ever hope for. Thanks! |
| 22:59.24 | r0bby | some years, it wasn't easy |
| 22:59.52 | r0bby | one year, we had a student defraud the program |
| 23:00.00 | r0bby | not my org, but another one I worked with prior |
| 23:00.11 | kl13nt | Defraud? How so? |
| 23:00.44 | r0bby | kl13nt: he did more than one project I believe and they caught it when they crosschecked payments |
| 23:00.57 | r0bby | If i'm remmebering it correctly |
| 23:01.48 | kl13nt | That's smart, tbh |
| 23:02.03 | kl13nt | But dumb at the same time |
| 23:02.27 | kl13nt | Did they catch him after the payments were out? |
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| 23:26.20 | r0bby | kl13nt: He used the same address for the payments I think? |
| 23:26.27 | r0bby | I forgot the exact details but it's bad to do |
| 23:30.09 | kl13nt | Agreed |
