| 00:14.19 | downey | I kinda liked the IRC sessions although it was grueling |
| 00:14.54 | downey | and it was a lot of "nothing specific" for answers -- many times it just depends on the overall lineup of various orgs -- they try not to have too many orgs of the same kind etc. |
| 00:18.23 | terri | yeah, I got a lot of tips about how to make the ideas pages better from those rejected orgs meetings |
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| 00:35.47 | rikstr | is there any stats on how many applicants each organization receives on average? |
| 00:39.52 | Gabby | Good day all please can anybody show me where to read up on organisation? |
| 00:40.33 | meflin | orgs are listed on the websight with there contact information |
| 00:44.06 | Gabby | Okay please can you copy the link for me here? |
| 00:44.33 | meflin | https://g.co/gsoc |
| 00:45.51 | Gabby | Thank you. |
| 00:52.02 | amitp | rikstr: there's https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/resources/stats ; for example it says in 2018: 1264 students, 206 organizations, so that's an average of 6 students accepted. But that's not how many were received. |
| 00:52.38 | amitp | Earlier in this irc (last week?) I think someone posted that 25-30% of proposals were accepted, so that suggests 20-24 applicants per organization |
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| 00:53.05 | meflin | a lot of apps are spam like cve's |
| 00:53.21 | meflin | how many at an org can change a lot each year |
| 00:54.02 | Sriram | Hello, I have a question - I am interested in participating in Google Summer of Code 2019 but my family and I have already planned a trip to another country for a month during the summer - is this allowed? Do I have to ask the organization I'm working with how the schedule will work out? |
| 00:54.24 | Sriram | Am I still eligible to apply t the program? |
| 00:54.27 | Sriram | *to |
| 00:54.38 | meflin | you always have to talk to your org about any issue that could impact your scedual |
| 00:55.00 | meflin | as for any legal/tax issues involved in that we cannot tell you |
| 00:55.29 | meflin | not all visa's would allow this as I understand but I know near nothing about those things |
| 00:55.59 | Sriram | I see |
| 00:56.17 | Sriram | I think I will email the mentors with questions about this, thank you for the advice! |
| 00:56.44 | meflin | they wont know the legal stuff as well, and you will still need to put in all the time on your project |
| 00:56.57 | olly | rikstr: i don't think such stats are published |
| 00:57.06 | Sriram | I can work remotely, I do not mind doing that |
| 00:57.18 | olly | i suspect they'd have bad effects |
| 00:57.47 | Sriram | however I may not be able to access the internet all the time during this time period, so I'm not sure how they |
| 00:57.53 | Sriram | *how they will respond |
| 00:58.16 | olly | some students would try to find orgs where they think they have a "better chance", so you'd get weird effects as such applications flood to orgs which had fewer the previous time |
| 00:58.54 | olly | really you're better off applying to something you're really interested in - genuine enthusiasm tends to show through |
| 00:58.57 | meflin | Sriram: that is something to talk about with your mentors try to have a good idea of how much time you will be able to do |
| 00:59.17 | Sriram | Of course |
| 00:59.36 | Sriram | Will I still be allowed to participate in the program as a whole, however? |
| 00:59.49 | meflin | I think so |
| 01:00.00 | meflin | you need to check into the legal issues yourself tho |
| 01:00.23 | Sriram | I will do so |
| 01:00.29 | Sriram | Thank you everyone for the advice! |
| 01:01.30 | olly | Sriram: but do you really want to spend most of your month's trip overseas working? |
| 01:02.23 | Sriram | I'm not sure... like you said, I think it will be upto the mentors how much I work |
| 01:03.41 | meflin | no ... your trip does not excuse any lack of work |
| 01:04.15 | olly | i didn't say that... |
| 01:04.35 | valorie | in general the expectation is 12 weeks of work, about 35-40 hours per week |
| 01:04.49 | valorie | "full time" |
| 01:06.21 | Sriram | this helps a lot |
| 01:06.24 | olly | it may be possible to start coding early (students with exams during coding often do that) but you'll need to discuss with the org you want to apply to |
| 01:06.53 | olly | but that's usually for a week or two overlap not a month |
| 01:07.21 | meflin | and one may not ever make things up later |
| 01:07.34 | Sriram | I'm only a graduating high school senior, if not this year, I still have plenty of time to try Google Summer of Code another summer |
| 01:07.44 | olly | well, that's why it's starting early rather than finishing late... |
| 01:08.02 | olly | Sriram: you can only do it twice anyway |
| 01:08.10 | Sriram | I just wanted to try it out this year and unfortunately the trip got in the way |
| 01:08.25 | Sriram | I wish it were more haha |
| 01:10.20 | fundamental_ | even if GSoC doesn't work out on it's own, there's always the possibility to scratch your itch independently for this year at least |
| 01:10.39 | meflin | you will learn a lot of stuff |
| 01:12.52 | Sriram | I was also thinking about trying out open source projects independently, it is hard to begin doing this however |
| 01:13.09 | meflin | not realy |
| 01:13.16 | Sriram | it's a bit intimidating to try and learn a project from the ground up and try contributing to it |
| 01:13.43 | meflin | same thing ... just get going you will be working with a project anyway |
| 01:14.03 | fundamental_ | I'd recommend trying to communicate with a smaller project that you might be interested in |
| 01:14.25 | fundamental_ | having some feedback helps provide context for the larger things |
| 01:14.39 | meflin | and you will be learning valuable skills |
| 01:15.17 | Sriram | I think I may try to do just that - find a smaller project and contribute to it |
| 01:15.38 | meflin | find somthing you enjoy |
| 01:16.07 | terri | Sriram: If it helps, remember that most mentors got into opens source without a program themselves. We are proof that it can be done! |
| 01:16.54 | Sriram | Wow, I'm slightly embarrassed - I didn't realize that I was talking to all mentors! |
| 01:18.33 | terri | Not all mentors, but lots of the folk who answer questions are indeed mentors or org admins. |
| 01:20.24 | Sriram | well, I think I'd better be off now - thank you once again to all who have helped |
| 01:20.42 | fundamental_ | good luck :) |
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| 01:33.16 | rikstr | olly: that makes sense, I hadn't considered that the detailed stats could open up abuse. I shouldn't focus on the stats too much, need to start working on my proposal instead of procrastinating! |
| 01:34.30 | rikstr | amitp: thanks for the link, it's still nice to see some stats |
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| 04:43.55 | valorie | was involved with Amarok and then all of KDE long before I got involved in GSoC |
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| 07:22.31 | rikstr | test |
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| 07:34.05 | wittycodes | hii people here |
| 07:34.23 | rikstr | wittycodes: yo |
| 07:35.47 | wittycodes | there is a query of mine,, is that google who is liable to pay as stipend for the program or the mentoring organisation |
| 07:40.04 | rikstr | wittycodes: I think mentors evaluate and then Google pays the stipend to you if your mentor says you passed the evaluations |
| 07:40.16 | rikstr | maybe someone else can confirm? |
| 07:50.05 | olly | yes |
| 07:51.22 | olly | I think the current way it works is that google send the student a payoneer card, which is a sort of pre-pay card, then they load money onto it for each payment |
| 07:52.01 | olly | but it could have changed |
| 08:27.57 | rikstr | olly: sounds exciting |
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| 19:47.25 | r0bby | rikstr: you are right. Mentors have the power and say whether you get paid or not. |
| 19:47.49 | r0bby | Org Admins similarly do as well. For example if as Org Admin, I see you are not blogging or having private conversations -- that won't go over well with me :) |
| 19:48.26 | r0bby | typically if you aren't blogging as required, odds are you are not working so failure will happen regardless of my intervention |
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| 21:05.20 | rikstr | r0bby: thanks for confirming! valid point about the blogging. Thank the Lord for scheduled posts! ;P |
| 21:06.34 | r0bby | rikstr: They're not scheduled -- I don't care when they happen just that they happen. I'm an org admin -- it's not horrible work but it does make me the bad guy at times |
| 21:07.42 | rikstr | r0bby: oh true, communication and showing progress is very important |
| 21:07.55 | r0bby | Google makes final decisions based on eligibility...and the reason why we can't tell students if they are accepted until Google posts the students is due to that fact -- We had this happen with a student one year |
| 21:09.57 | rikstr | eligibility? isn't it just being enrolled in college and not from one of the embargoed countries? |
| 21:12.31 | olly | and old enough and not having done gsoc twice (or more) already |
| 21:12.54 | olly | but students have to submit proof of eligibility and some of them fail to submit something satisfactory |
| 21:14.29 | rikstr | oh I see! |
| 21:16.59 | olly | it's a good idea to check what's acceptable early and if you're going to need to apply to your uni to get a suitable document, get on with it as some unis can take a while to do that |
| 21:18.32 | rikstr | oh definitely |
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| 21:20.11 | rikstr | I'm giving my proposal my best effort--if I don't get selected, their loss ;) |
| 21:22.38 | vmbrasseur | rikstr: I'm sure folks here can help you with it, too. :) |
| 21:23.32 | rikstr | thanks vmbrasseur! I need all the help I can get :) |
| 21:23.44 | vmbrasseur | Don't we all. ;) |
| 21:23.48 | rikstr | haha |
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| 21:59.07 | safwan | rikstr: keep in mind that proposal is not only consideration for acceptence |
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| 22:19.22 | r0bby | rikstr: There was also an instance with my former org where a student defrauded the program |
| 22:19.40 | r0bby | That was fun |
| 22:20.24 | r0bby | rikstr: Remember: we get a limited number of slots and way more proposals than we have slots -- tough decisions have to be made sadly |
| 22:23.21 | valorie | we've had to turn away students we really wanted |
| 22:23.38 | valorie | but there are only so many mentors and we like to have 2 per student |
| 22:23.58 | valorie | for KDE |
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| 22:33.27 | amitp | Always sad to have to turn away good students :-( |
| 22:35.26 | r0bby | The good students will stick around if they truly care and aren't doing it solely for recogniton and money. |
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| 22:37.54 | terri | I dunno, that assumes that all good students have the time to stick around and don't, say, have to work hard on something that doesn't leave them time for spare-time open source |
| 22:38.12 | terri | I mean, don't get me wrong, we *do* get some great people who stick around even if they don't get accepted and that's amazing |
| 22:39.57 | terri | But we probably lose great people who don't have the resources to work around the money thing |
| 22:42.34 | r0bby | Definitely |
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| 22:43.44 | safwan | The main objective of GSoc is actually promoting open source |
| 22:44.20 | safwan | I believe, if anyone dont want/cant contribute to open source, he should not participate in GSoC |
| 22:44.58 | safwan | It seems like most of the people are only flooding in open source projects while its GSoC |
| 22:45.07 | safwan | and other times, its a like graveyard |
| 22:46.52 | r0bby | safwan: Pretty valid point sadly |
| 22:47.32 | safwan | I think the mentor organizer should consider it |
| 22:47.53 | r0bby | We do |
| 22:48.08 | r0bby | The moment you engage our communities, we are evaluating you |
| 22:48.34 | safwan | because its better to have some not well proposed project person who will stick to a project rathar than having a well furnished proposal with having no open source commitment |
| 22:48.58 | terri | for mailman, we used to have similar floods of people every time I ran a hackathon. I think advertising and mentors on hand ready to help and the necessary preparation so there are easy bugs available all factor into that. |
| 22:49.18 | safwan | r0bby: The problem is actually, day by day the number of open source contributor are decreasing! |
| 22:49.50 | terri | uhh... where are you getting that impression from? That's not what I see in my professional context. |
| 22:50.01 | r0bby | as terri pointed out -- people get busy -- some can't afford to just work for free |
| 22:50.04 | terri | (Not that you couldn't be right, just it's *really* not what I see at work) |
| 22:50.40 | r0bby | All of the infrastructure resources for my org are run for $0.00 |
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| 22:51.34 | vmbrasseur | safwan: I also would be interested in knowing where you get that data. |
| 22:51.42 | terri | I think what's neat about GSoC is that we muster our mentoring resources to make the barrier to entry way lower at this time of year, so it seems weird to complain that we get more applicants then. :) |
| 22:52.07 | vmbrasseur | Because every other data point shows the numbers of contributors or people wishing to contribute are growing. |
| 22:52.25 | r0bby | safwan: Also, I was a student, mentor, and now Org Admin |
| 22:52.56 | safwan | vmbrasseur: The way the technology grows, the open source contributor of popular projects are still handful of people |
| 22:53.00 | vmbrasseur | If there's data showing to the contrary, it would be helpful to see it. |
| 22:53.04 | r0bby | We had past GSoC students as mentors for Google Code-in and Google Summer of Code *AND* we had a Google Code-in student mentoring during GSoC last year! .3 |
| 22:53.11 | vmbrasseur | safwan: [citation needed] |
| 22:53.25 | safwan | r0bby: I was also a student, now a mentor |
| 22:53.41 | vmbrasseur | And Nadia's Ford Foundation report doesn't count, as it's just a study of a few projects. :) |
| 22:54.02 | vmbrasseur | (a very good study though) |
| 22:54.19 | safwan | vmbrasseur: I dont have the exact amount of data, but its from my prespective of ovbservation. |
| 22:54.41 | r0bby | safwan: How many projects? |
| 22:54.43 | vmbrasseur | I respect that this is what you have observed. |
| 22:54.57 | safwan | r0bby: 1 |
| 22:54.59 | vmbrasseur | I have been doing this for 30 years and have observed the opposite. :) |
| 22:55.16 | safwan | vmbrasseur: What you have observed? |
| 22:55.22 | r0bby | safwan: okay one org isn't even remotely enough data |
| 22:55.36 | vmbrasseur | A dramatic increase in projects, in contributors, and in people wishing to contribute. |
| 22:56.30 | vmbrasseur | But what we have right now are more projects than contributors, not enough projects that do a good job making it easy for people to contribute, and not enough education about how to contribute or even what FOSS really is. |
| 22:56.50 | vmbrasseur | So initiatives like GSoC and Outreachy are very valuable. |
| 22:57.20 | vmbrasseur | They help projects learn where the gaps are in their contribution processes so they can attract more contributors in the future. |
| 22:57.32 | terri | The other thing is that once projects get to a certain size, sometimes they spin off smaller parts to make management easier, so it's a bit harder to see an increase by just looking a single code repository. |
| 22:57.33 | vmbrasseur | And they help lots of people (selected or otherwise) learn a lot more about FOSS and how to contribute. |
| 22:57.43 | vmbrasseur | Yeah, totally. |
| 22:57.46 | vmbrasseur | Project != repo. |
| 22:57.51 | vmbrasseur | And contribution != code. |
| 22:58.09 | vmbrasseur | Or, more accurately, code is only one way to contribute. |
| 22:58.29 | safwan | Currently, new projects are lack of documentation |
| 22:58.41 | vmbrasseur | That's not a new problem. |
| 22:58.48 | vmbrasseur | But you're right, it's a problem. |
| 22:59.23 | r0bby | safwan: We used Outreachy for projects that GSoC disallows -- GSoC disallows projects which are primarily ocumentation related. |
| 23:00.16 | safwan | r0bby: Thats cool. But there should be some more engagement for engaging documentation writers |
| 23:00.34 | r0bby | There is a program but I don't think I'm allowed to speak of it publicly |
| 23:00.36 | safwan | like mozilla have good amount of contributors who are excellent in wiritng documentation |
| 23:00.38 | terri | I feel like if GSoC is the when you get the bulk of your new contributors and this bothers you, there are lots of things you can do to fix this. |
| 23:01.28 | terri | advertising, outreach, documentation, providing set times (like code sprints) to bring people together... |
| 23:01.39 | valorie | amen to that |
| 23:02.22 | vmbrasseur | I have an entire chapter in my book about how to contribute without writing code. |
| 23:02.28 | valorie | GSoC is valuable but I wouldn't like it to be the only way to bring in new contributors |
| 23:02.54 | vmbrasseur | It's a shame that GSoC mostly focuses on the code side of things, but that's undoubtedly a topic that they've discussed at length. |
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| 23:03.01 | valorie | for starters, I would say that between a quarter and a third of the students stick around for long |
| 23:03.18 | valorie | they get jobs and start building a family and poof |
| 23:03.32 | safwan | I think the important part is to have patience in the contributor |
| 23:03.38 | r0bby | vmbrasseur: I don't actually write code for my org :) |
| 23:03.45 | r0bby | I maintain infrastructure :) |
| 23:03.57 | safwan | r0bby: which org? |
| 23:03.59 | valorie | admin duties are part of my contribution |
| 23:04.09 | valorie | zero code aside from English |
| 23:04.12 | valorie | :-) |
| 23:04.41 | safwan | Like, some of my pull requests ws gone through review for 6 months and more than 100 comments |
| 23:04.41 | achillion | The hardest one |
| 23:04.43 | r0bby | safwan: LibreHealth -- we are an umbrella org consisting entirely of software forks for now |
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