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| 00:19.11 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code | Student Projects Announced May 4th, 2017 | https://g.co/gsoc |
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| 14:04.07 | jack11 | brain freeze ;) |
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| 14:24.54 | pyc0d3r | hi |
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| 15:40.48 | kblin | phew, finally done chasing all my mentors |
| 15:41.17 | gevaerts | Don't let them escape again! |
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| 15:45.30 | ben__ | kblin: chasing them because today is the last day for final student selections right? |
| 15:48.17 | kblin | ben__: today as "in 12 minutes", yes |
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| 15:59.35 | ben__ | kblin: thought so. now us students only have to wait until next week for results! |
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| 17:48.51 | ben__ | offtopic but is it just me or is instagram down? |
| 17:51.37 | terri | ben__: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/instagram.com |
| 17:52.21 | terri | That both answers the question (apparently yes it's down) and gives you a tool so you don't have to ask 300 people on irc next time you want to know. :) |
| 17:53.31 | ben__ | thanks terri, i just confirmed on my phone as well |
| 17:53.43 | blast007 | for big things like that, I usually do a search on twitter to see if anyone is complaining about it :) |
| 17:55.13 | ben__ | blast007: yep, your way is the best way imo! i'll remember to check there first next time |
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| 18:02.48 | ben__ | wow, someone already posted that their proposal got accepted on social media |
| 18:03.19 | terri | ben__: that sounds like a really fast way to have a proposal rejected by google for violation of the rules. |
| 18:03.29 | Valodim | yeah that org screwed up |
| 18:03.54 | gevaerts | I bet it wasn't on instagram! |
| 18:05.19 | ben__ | nope, not on insta! |
| 18:16.16 | ben__ | did some more digging and saw an org posted the number of slots they were allotted too |
| 18:16.50 | gevaerts | As far as I know that's allowed but not considered a good idea by many |
| 18:18.31 | ben__ | oh ok |
| 18:18.58 | PulkoMandy | just because if you tell everyone you got 8 slots, and then there are only 7 accepted students, everyone will know there was something strange happening :) |
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| 18:20.22 | ben__ | i.e. one of the students was violating rules/didn't feel the student was competent/etc. :D |
| 18:20.52 | gevaerts | Or was merely chosen by another org and all other students were sub-par |
| 18:21.43 | PulkoMandy | or the org admin requested 8 slots, but then one of the mentors ran into personal problems and doesn't want to mentor anymore. Or many other explanations are possible |
| 18:21.52 | PulkoMandy | but still, usually not things you want to be visible |
| 18:22.22 | gevaerts | nods |
| 18:22.29 | ben__ | also nods |
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| 18:23.38 | gevaerts | ben__: actually, was that number of slots you found one or two? |
| 18:24.18 | ben__ | gevaerts: it was more than a handful |
| 18:24.38 | gevaerts | Hmm, so probably not gsoc novices :) |
| 18:24.51 | gevaerts | had this theory that this was new org behaviour |
| 18:26.11 | ben__ | more further digging and a student was reported by an org admin to a Google employee for plagiarizing a proposal |
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| 18:30.30 | ben__ | has no life |
| 18:30.43 | ben__ | thank goodness May 4 is coming verrry soon |
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| 18:46.43 | ben__ | is thinking of submitting 5 quality proposals next year, just so orgs would have an epic battle to decide on who gets me |
| 18:48.33 | gevaerts | often wonders what the acceptance statistics of very optimistic students actually are :) |
| 18:49.35 | PulkoMandy | well, if you start writing the 5 proposals now, you may have enough time to achieve this :) |
| 19:03.14 | Robert_S | Did I miss anything interesting this weekend? :) |
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| 21:45.16 | ben__ | @PulkoMandy maybe ;) but how would an organization handle at least a 3 way tie? i guess they'd do it by time of proposal submission? |
| 21:55.11 | valorie | yikes, 3-way tie |
| 21:55.19 | valorie | don't even wanna contemplate |
| 21:55.29 | valorie | losing a student was already painful |
| 21:58.59 | achillion | dice roll |
| 21:59.02 | achillion | get it over with |
| 21:59.10 | achillion | (don't actually do that) |
| 22:00.40 | valorie | well, we gave up the student, and had to tell another org no, you can't take our student as well |
| 22:00.50 | valorie | so I guess we both got and gave out grief |
| 22:02.29 | ben__ | win some, lose sum :) |
| 22:02.40 | ben__ | some* |
| 22:06.18 | ben__ | well sum too, now that i think of it lol |
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| 22:10.25 | valorie | ben__: yeah |
| 22:10.40 | valorie | isn't laughing yet about wasting a slot |
| 22:12.11 | ben__ | valorie: yeah, I understand why Google won't allow a backup student instead of letting it go to waste, but it still sucks |
| 22:13.30 | olly | ben__: um, you can fill a slot with any eligible student who submitted a proposal to you |
| 22:13.32 | valorie | well, we didn't have another student to substitute |
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| 22:13.49 | olly | it's more about having another student who submitted a good enough proposal |
| 22:13.54 | olly | well, typically |
| 22:14.00 | valorie | we had good students with good proposals but no available mentors |
| 22:14.16 | valorie | and mentors with no student who proposed |
| 22:14.56 | valorie | we got maybe 1/4 of our usual proposals this year, although almost all of them were very high quality |
| 22:15.11 | valorie | (KDE) |
| 22:15.12 | Valodim | I wouldn't complain about that ;) |
| 22:15.23 | ben__ | olly: oh i see, i thought it was stuck to a student and you couldn't change it afterwards but i misread |
| 22:15.41 | valorie | I'm not complaining! just wishing that we could have used that slot |
| 22:16.26 | valorie | ben__: there has to be a student AND a mentor or mentors |
| 22:16.27 | Valodim | :) |
| 22:16.32 | valorie | we like to have two per student |
| 22:16.49 | olly | we saw fewer proposals too, and mostly less of the junk |
| 22:17.08 | olly | i'm curious that there were apparently a record number of registered students |
| 22:17.21 | valorie | more orgs this year I think? |
| 22:17.26 | olly | i guess a much lower proportion actually followed through than usual |
| 22:17.29 | olly | oh, could be |
| 22:17.37 | olly | !numapps |
| 22:17.37 | gsocbot | olly: "numapps" is 2016: 178/369 orgs; 1206/7543 proposals, 5107 students. 2015: 137/416 orgs; 1051/6409 props, 4425 students. 2014: 190/371 orgs; 1304/6313 props, 4420 students. 2013: 177/417 orgs; 1192/5999 props, 4144 students. 2012: 180/406 orgs; 1212/6685 props, 4258 students. 2011: 175/417 orgs; 1116/5474 props, 3731 students. 2010: 151/367 orgs; 1026/5539 props, 3464 students |
| 22:17.46 | Valodim | half of our proposals were complete junk, still |
| 22:17.47 | olly | 201 vs 178 |
| 22:17.50 | achillion | valorie⺠(KDE is great, thanks!) |
| 22:18.02 | olly | or vs 190 |
| 22:18.08 | valorie | thank you achillion, nice to hear! |
| 22:18.22 | achillion | :) |
| 22:20.20 | ben__ | valorie: oh yeah i understand |
| 22:21.07 | ben__ | if any org doesn't mind sharing, how many proposals did you get this year and how many out of that number were junk? |
| 22:22.58 | valorie | we got 49, and only 4 were ignored |
| 22:23.32 | Snow-Man | heh, 14, and just a couple were junk. |
| 22:23.40 | valorie | one of those 4 was a sad case where the student thought they were making 3 proposals, but put them all in the same doc |
| 22:23.41 | Valodim | valorie: that's not bad at all |
| 22:23.59 | valorie | no, that part was refreshing |
| 22:24.12 | Valodim | how many slots do you have? |
| 22:24.23 | Valodim | (or if you're more comfortable, just a ballpark number) |
| 22:24.26 | ben__ | valorie: wow, that's surprisingly low i'd think for KDE. based on all the # of projects accepted last year. |
| 22:24.29 | valorie | that kid submitted at the last minute of course, so no chance to help them out |
| 22:24.43 | valorie | yes, we were a bit stunned by the low number |
| 22:24.58 | valorie | we've gotten ~200 in the past |
| 22:25.07 | valorie | half crap |
| 22:25.07 | achillion | O_O |
| 22:25.09 | achillion | that's a lot |
| 22:25.09 | ben__ | Snow-Man: yours is very low, are you a new org? |
| 22:25.23 | Valodim | we received ~60 proposals, ~30 were junk I'd say. Where junk ranges from "didn't follow our one-patch rule" to outright spam |
| 22:26.10 | Valodim | (for just two slots) |
| 22:26.19 | valorie | Valodim: a bit over half were students we wanted |
| 22:26.51 | valorie | some of those students had more than one valid proposal |
| 22:27.56 | Valodim | still pretty good numbers |
| 22:28.01 | terri | I think 14 is probably a more typical number. Valorie's org is one of the larger ones. |
| 22:28.24 | valorie | says terri from the largest |
| 22:28.28 | valorie | lol |
| 22:28.42 | terri | valorie: not this year, we're the lowest we've been since I started! |
| 22:28.45 | ben__ | haha |
| 22:28.56 | valorie | how many proposals did you get this year, terri? |
| 22:28.58 | Valodim | who is hiding all the big numbers |
| 22:29.05 | ben__ | terri has a lot of sub-orgs though |
| 22:29.22 | terri | At least, I assume there's someone who accepted more than us, since we're half what we were at peak. |
| 22:30.02 | terri | I'm pretty proud of that, actually, because it's due to some of our best sub-orgs finally moving on to being separate top level orgs. |
| 22:30.10 | valorie | nice! |
| 22:30.23 | terri | Yeay for good people doing good work! |
| 22:30.26 | ben__ | awesome |
| 22:30.40 | achillion | so which org are we talking about? |
| 22:31.07 | terri | I'm the org admin for Python |
| 22:31.28 | achillion | Python is the biggest GSoC (usually)? |
| 22:31.31 | achillion | Interesting |
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| 22:32.17 | terri | Not always, but some years we have been. we have about 20 sub-orgs, so we sponsor a lot of smaller groups and help them get started mentoring |
| 22:32.31 | achillion | Cool |
| 22:33.50 | valorie | KDE is somewhat similar in that we have a number of sub-teams who do the mentoring |
| 22:33.58 | valorie | although of course there can be overlap |
| 22:34.24 | valorie | and one of our former students/mentors/developers did go on to found an open science org |
| 22:34.36 | valorie | it was good to meet him at the mentor summit last year |
| 22:34.52 | valorie | (although it made me feel old) |
| 22:34.55 | valorie | lol |
| 22:35.59 | terri | I kind of like feeling old when it means new people are coming in and running things. :) |
| 22:36.37 | terri | 'sides, I keep meflin around to make me look youthful and enthusiastic. ;) |
| 22:36.57 | ben__ | lol |
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| 22:38.45 | valorie | so true, terri |
| 22:43.25 | ben__ | @valorie do you know what percentage of students end up staying and still contributing even after GSOC? |
| 22:44.21 | valorie | hmm, we did a analysis of that awhile back |
| 22:44.43 | valorie | as I recall it was maybe 25-30%? |
| 22:45.00 | valorie | of course it all depends on what you count as contribution |
| 22:45.11 | valorie | and for how long |
| 22:45.34 | valorie | our goal of course is 100% at least supporting their own code |
| 22:46.00 | ben__ | ah I see |
| 22:46.04 | ben__ | yeah it'd depend |
| 22:46.12 | valorie | how about your org? |
| 22:46.17 | terri | I think we get a few people back after a few years away too, basically when folk finish school and then start putting together a resume portfolio or just have more time. |
| 22:46.47 | valorie | it was pretty cool to see the names of early students that I recognized now as active devels and mentors |
| 22:46.57 | valorie | and our other active admin was also a student |
| 22:47.17 | valorie | gsoc has def. been great for the KDE community |
| 22:47.54 | ben__ | cool, it's good to hear some positive stuff after reading some negatives about it on Hacker News |
| 22:48.45 | terri | yeah, having folk come in on a regular schedule with fresh eyes not only gets us contributors, but really pushes us to update docs and triage bug queues and think about how to integrate new people |
| 22:48.57 | achillion | well... reading about anything on HN is just asking for negativity |
| 22:49.07 | valorie | ben__: negative about what? |
| 22:49.12 | valorie | gsoc, or KDE? |
| 22:50.05 | terri | HN does tend to attract people who want to gripe a lot more than people who are happy about things. |
| 22:50.15 | ben__ | ben__: about GSOC. there was a post about why OpenBSD is no longer participating in GSOC. |
| 22:50.20 | valorie | there is a downside to GSoC, when students treat it as just another paid internship |
| 22:50.25 | ben__ | oops, valorie |
| 22:50.30 | ben__ | http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=149119308705465&w=2 |
| 22:50.41 | indrora | HN is where you go to see just how cancerous tech can be :/ |
| 22:50.43 | valorie | but there is no way around it, some students will view it and use it that way |
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| 22:51.01 | ben__ | these days i mainly go to HN for the "Whose Hiring" threads :D |
| 22:51.01 | valorie | we know we'll never get 100% of students to stick around |
| 22:51.41 | Valodim | that seems like a negative way to put it |
| 22:51.47 | valorie | well, the BSD people are right that it is a lot of work |
| 22:51.50 | indrora | ben__: "And nothing of value was lost" comes to mind after my experiences with the *bsd community |
| 22:51.55 | valorie | but it is work that we think is worthwhile |
| 22:52.14 | terri | huh, shame they felt that way. I think that Google's done a lot to streamline the paperwork in the past few years. |
| 22:52.21 | valorie | even if we only keep 10% longterm |
| 22:52.31 | achillion | valorie⺠what would you consider a realistic (yet slightly optimistic) estimate? I mean is 50% below what you would like, given 30% is the current? |
| 22:52.38 | valorie | it is still worthwhile |
| 22:52.54 | valorie | 50% would make us ecstatic |
| 22:53.11 | valorie | here's the thing |
| 22:53.11 | achillion | I would think 30% is pretty good too, to be honest (though I'm new to the scene) |
| 22:53.17 | valorie | GSoC is students |
| 22:53.44 | valorie | realistically, we don't get many young teens involved in development, although there are always a few |
| 22:53.51 | indrora | GSoC is students putting time into Opensource. Perfect storm of lack of time. |
| 22:53.54 | valorie | uni student have time |
| 22:54.04 | valorie | they do have time |
| 22:54.08 | achillion | can confirm |
| 22:54.15 | valorie | they just do less drinking, etc. |
| 22:54.31 | valorie | or make the FOSS work into schoolwork, if they are clever |
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| 22:54.44 | valorie | then some do grad and even post-grad work |
| 22:54.44 | achillion | or play less World of Warcraft |
| 22:54.49 | valorie | ha! |
| 22:54.52 | indrora | Hah. If we're allowed. |
| 22:54.55 | achillion | looks back to the hours spent on WoW during his student years |
| 22:54.59 | indrora | (to make it part of uni work, that is) |
| 22:55.00 | terri | heh. I gave up TV for open source as a young adult myself. ;) |
| 22:55.08 | valorie | but then they get jobs, and families..... and guess what |
| 22:55.16 | valorie | even if they love us, they contribute less |
| 22:55.20 | indrora | my uni has some... Interesting rules on IP. @ terri can confirm some of those. |
| 22:55.34 | valorie | unless they can get jobs working on KDE software, which some do |
| 22:55.37 | achillion | indrora⺠yeah that stuff... that's just bad |
| 22:55.54 | valorie | sometimes as their kids grow up, they come back a bit |
| 22:56.01 | valorie | but that's just life cycles |
| 22:56.18 | valorie | GSoC gives us a way to keep getting a few students every year |
| 22:56.36 | valorie | imo that is my part of developing KDE |
| 22:56.42 | valorie | since I'm not a coder |
| 22:56.48 | valorie | well, one of the ways |
| 22:56.55 | achillion | KDE Connect, IIRC, was a GSoC project initially |
| 22:57.50 | terri | I'm pretty happy if students just stick around and keep reporting bugs or answering questions on IRC. It's low-commitment but still makes a difference. |
| 22:58.19 | terri | Even some of the students who don't get accepted do that, which is amazing |
| 22:59.13 | indrora | At least google is making an effort to try and keep the quality of the orgs up. |
| 22:59.25 | valorie | achillion: yup |
| 22:59.31 | indrora | (that is, avoiding toxic communities) |
| 22:59.46 | achillion | valorie⺠such a great little thing |
| 23:00.06 | valorie | indeed! |
| 23:00.39 | Robert_S | What? Hang around on IRC and answer questions? ;) |
| 23:00.45 | indrora | Heresy. |
| 23:00.48 | terri | I wish I'd dedicated resources to tracking our engagement levels like KDE did. it's pretty fascinating |
| 23:01.36 | terri | By September, I'm usually too eager to go back to writing my own code to work on more gsoc surveys! |
| 23:01.37 | indrora | KDE also has some big-co cash flow, don't they? |
| 23:01.37 | valorie | well, I'm not sure we did a great job, but Nightrose is the Great Brain behind that |
| 23:01.52 | valorie | indrora: no big companies |
| 23:01.58 | valorie | some small ones |
| 23:02.06 | terri | maybe someday some nice volunteer will step up and it'll happen, though. :) |
| 23:02.06 | indrora | Better than most projects. |
| 23:02.10 | achillion | indrora⺠They sell t-shirts if that counts :P |
| 23:02.16 | achillion | (j/k) |
| 23:02.22 | valorie | the e.V. has some money in the bank, yes |
| 23:02.23 | indrora | achillion: *much* better than most projects. |
| 23:02.28 | achillion | :D |
| 23:02.34 | Valodim | KDE is an e.V.? |
| 23:02.43 | ben__ | terri: maybe someone will submit that as their proposal next year ;) |
| 23:02.45 | valorie | *has* an e.V. |
| 23:03.06 | terri | ben__: alas, probably not enough code to get in. Maybe GCI tasks? ;) |
| 23:03.12 | valorie | the e.V. is only about funding support for developers, such as infra and sprints, etc. |
| 23:03.13 | Valodim | ah! :) |
| 23:03.20 | Valodim | cool |
| 23:03.23 | ben__ | well, my sister is turning 13 next year... |
| 23:03.24 | ben__ | lol |
| 23:03.34 | achillion | My main complaint with KDE is that by the time I got to the booth at FOSDEM this year, they were out of the purple shirt with the cool logo and I had to get the blue one. |
| 23:03.37 | valorie | it has no say on direction of the projects |
| 23:03.44 | terri | achillion: life is hard. ;) |
| 23:03.44 | valorie | achillion: lol |
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| 23:04.04 | valorie | ben__: get her turned on to GCi |
| 23:04.09 | achillion | terri, valorie: Terrible sacrifices I tell you |
| 23:04.19 | terri | makes her own swag so she always gets the colour she wants. ;) |
| 23:04.24 | indrora | hah. |
| 23:04.39 | valorie | we have a GCi student who is mentoring a GSoC student! or at least that was one of our options |
| 23:04.52 | valorie | can't recall if that is so, or not |
| 23:04.57 | ben__ | valorie: umm... any organization with slime or silly putty? :D |
| 23:05.08 | valorie | ha |
| 23:05.14 | achillion | PuTTY? |
| 23:05.22 | ben__ | lol |
| 23:05.24 | terri | (if any of you see me at pycon in Portland this year, ask if I have any swag on me. I usually have stickers and buttons on hand, depending on how many people i've met that day) |
| 23:05.27 | valorie | we do have a 3-d print control team.... |
| 23:06.38 | valorie | also, Krita! |
| 23:07.49 | valorie | for GCi we always (so far) have some art or design projects, like 'design a mug' or 'design a tshirt' |
| 23:07.50 | ben__ | cool, will do if i ever go there |
| 23:08.32 | valorie | ben__: GCi is an online contest for 13-18 year-olds |
| 23:09.06 | valorie | somewhat like GSoC, but designed around small tasks rather than one large project |
| 23:09.12 | ben__ | oh wow, i didn't know that. i'll let her know next year! |
| 23:09.35 | valorie | not all GSoC orgs participate |
| 23:09.51 | valorie | so far, we've found it fun and exhausting |
| 23:11.08 | ben__ | !stats |
| 23:11.08 | gsocbot | ben__: I have 5 registered users with 5 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins. |
| 23:11.17 | ben__ | !numapps |
| 23:11.17 | gsocbot | ben__: "numapps" is 2016: 178/369 orgs; 1206/7543 proposals, 5107 students. 2015: 137/416 orgs; 1051/6409 props, 4425 students. 2014: 190/371 orgs; 1304/6313 props, 4420 students. 2013: 177/417 orgs; 1192/5999 props, 4144 students. 2012: 180/406 orgs; 1212/6685 props, 4258 students. 2011: 175/417 orgs; 1116/5474 props, 3731 students. 2010: 151/367 orgs; 1026/5539 props, 3464 students |
| 23:11.52 | ben__ | does Google also publish stats on how many first-time GSoC participants there were for the year? |
| 23:13.24 | terri | the blog says how many new orgs there are every year, but I don't recall if they mention first-time students. |
| 23:14.52 | ben__ | ok thanks |
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| 23:23.23 | Snow-Man | ben__: not really that new. :) |
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| 23:34.21 | terri | I'd guess it's most students, though, especially now that students can only be accepted two years. |
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| 23:38.22 | valorie | new to GSoC, but we have a few former GCi students! |
| 23:44.23 | ben__ | nice |