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| 00:20.28 | degasus | Will there be a notification when the proov of enrollment is accepted? I've uploaded it two days ago |
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| 00:20.56 | olly | degasus: no, you'll only hear if there's an issue |
| 00:21.20 | olly | they'll have thousands so keeping the admin overhead low matters |
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| 00:23.26 | degasus | olly: so this is a feature request for next year ;) Send a generated mail when the admin press on "accept" |
| 00:24.38 | olly | well, patches are probably welcome |
| 00:24.43 | olly | but I've no idea what the workflowis |
| 00:26.21 | olly | if you get a welcome pack in the mail, that means your proof's been accepted |
| 00:26.44 | olly | if you aren't accepted into gsoc, it doesn't really matter if the proof was ok or not |
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| 00:34.59 | degasus | olly: I haven't got any mail for gsoc :( |
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| 00:35.56 | edk__ | degasus: what email are you talking about? |
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| 00:36.49 | degasus | edk__: anything, registration confirm, comments on my proposels, anything on my enrollment |
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| 00:37.16 | degasus | I'm used to get spamed, so I wonder not to get any mail at all |
| 00:37.30 | olly | degasus: i think email notifications aren't working currently |
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| 00:37.42 | olly | but I mean physical mail |
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| 00:39.17 | degasus | olly: oh, I guess this one need some time |
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| 00:40.39 | olly | degasus: yes, it can't even be sent until after april 21st |
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| 01:52.59 | joshuatj | hi is it normal that I don't see the option to upload form on my profile? |
| 01:53.40 | joshuatj | sorry - to clarify the option to upload the enrollment form on "My Profile" |
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| 01:56.36 | umccullough | joshuatj, you might ask in #melange |
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| 01:59.51 | stqism | joshuatj: Do you see a submit proposal option? |
| 02:00.16 | umccullough | thinking he's due for an !unmentor ? |
| 02:00.38 | stqism | Most likely |
| 02:00.39 | stqism | !unmentor | joshuatj |
| 02:00.40 | gsocbot | joshuatj: "unmentor" is (#1) mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com and Cc: carols@google.com with your melange username (top of the page) and say you mistakenly registered as a mentor, or (#2) Or just register again with another GMail account |
| 02:00.56 | umccullough | assuming that's the problem :) |
| 02:01.27 | joshuatj | stqism: hmmm no I don't see submit proposal option |
| 02:01.30 | stqism | That's my guess :) |
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| 02:01.45 | stqism | joshuatj: You're signed up as a mentor, not a student most likely. |
| 02:01.50 | olly | wonders if we should really be encouraging people to sign up multiple times |
| 02:01.51 | joshuatj | you might be right, I might need a unmentor |
| 02:02.05 | umccullough | olly, probably not, but that was one of the solutions proposed by #melange :/ |
| 02:02.12 | olly | sees |
| 02:02.25 | joshuatj | thanks for the tip - I'll email melange and cc Carols as suggested. Let's see how that goes |
| 02:02.45 | umccullough | certainly not the first, nor the last ;) |
| 02:04.21 | KolibriOS|yogev | olly: I also don't like #2 but that's what madrazr proposed me when my students registered as mentors. |
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| 02:04.54 | umccullough | would be nice if melange had an account deletion feature |
| 02:04.55 | KolibriOS|yogev | olly: So I added it to the factoid for the sake of completeness. |
| 02:04.56 | olly | will try to remember to check with carols if she's happy with that being promoted as a solution |
| 02:05.08 | umccullough | well, carols did see it today |
| 02:05.26 | umccullough | and i'm sure she gets a highlight whenever it's used ;) |
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| 02:05.56 | olly | probably, unless her client treats @ as a word character |
| 02:06.02 | umccullough | possible |
| 02:06.25 | madrazr | umccullough: we did have it (and we still do for GCI), but it is a bigger problem |
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| 02:07.01 | madrazr | umccullough: it turns out people do not just click on wrong buttons like I want to register as mentor when they actually want to register as student |
| 02:07.22 | madrazr | they also do click on delete my profile and do not understand what that means |
| 02:07.27 | umccullough | heh |
| 02:07.29 | madrazr | real problem we had |
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| 02:07.33 | umccullough | <sigh> |
| 02:07.34 | madrazr | I am not making that up at all |
| 02:07.42 | umccullough | silly |
| 02:07.51 | madrazr | and in spite of having an "Are you sure, this is going to be dangerous" pop there |
| 02:08.17 | stqism | What if we made the factoid state that the student was now no longer eligible? |
| 02:08.18 | umccullough | are you sure, are you sure, are you sure... please type: "DELETE ME COMPLETE" and click "I am completely sure" |
| 02:08.23 | stqism | Rather curious |
| 02:08.37 | madrazr | umccullough: for GCI we have another layer of control. When someone clicks on delete profile button, we don't delete the profile |
| 02:08.41 | KolibriOS|yogev | I wonder if that button actually killed people who pressed it (I mean, really killed in RL), would they still press it? |
| 02:08.42 | madrazr | we get an email |
| 02:08.50 | madrazr | and ask them again |
| 02:09.02 | madrazr | but GSoC traffic is so high that we don't want to bring that upon ourselves |
| 02:09.09 | umccullough | KolibriOS|yogev, i think there was a study done about that, and as long as you paid people $50 to push it, they would |
| 02:09.38 | umccullough | or maybe that was an onion article, i don't remember :) |
| 02:10.09 | KolibriOS|yogev | umccullough: To be honest, students that registered in my org as a mentor (and they did it BEFORE even student registration started), I am thinking not to accept at all, just for this. |
| 02:10.12 | stqism | 2 buttons, one says click here to owe $5500, the other says sign up as student |
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| 02:10.27 | KolibriOS|yogev | umccullough: If they cannot read 10 words, will they work good 3 months? I doubt so. |
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| 02:11.53 | madrazr | umccullough: KolibriOS|yogev: Also I suggest creating another profile using another account to avoid unnecessary delays |
| 02:12.05 | madrazr | you guys have been seeing the traffic we are experiencing |
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| 02:12.26 | madrazr | it is the new prospective students traffic |
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| 02:12.35 | madrazr | plus the GSoC support traffic itself |
| 02:12.57 | KolibriOS|yogev | madrazr: I don't blame you and I apologize if I was rude to you. Just those students made my life hard, and you made it a bit harder :-) |
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| 02:13.18 | madrazr | the suggestion #2 is to work around the unnecessary delays or turnaround times |
| 02:13.19 | KolibriOS|yogev | madrazr: So I had to complain on that. |
| 02:13.31 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: fair enough :) |
| 02:13.41 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: no need to apologize at all |
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| 02:15.05 | KolibriOS|yogev | madrazr: Also, if I might be allowed to suggest, I think Melange is a bit special as you both are participating open-source org and provide support for students/mentors/other orgs/Google - and with all that, you only have 1 support person active in IRC (you). I think you need to have at least 2 (either via payment to 1 of you to do it full-time job or by |
| 02:15.07 | KolibriOS|yogev | other means) |
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| 02:15.43 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: that is a total fair suggestion to make |
| 02:16.25 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: we ask all our contributors or developers to be active on IRC. We keep requesting but sadly people have life |
| 02:17.02 | MisterA | you can be active on irc and still have a life |
| 02:17.09 | MisterA | phone apps are pretty great |
| 02:17.19 | MisterA | cloud-core irc clients are amazing at that too |
| 02:17.29 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: I mean he is 1 and he cannot handle both student proposals and support questions at the same time |
| 02:17.35 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: nathanielmanist1 is a full time engineer from Google who is assigned to the project as part of his work and I am pretty sure he wants to do as much support stuff as possible. But he is just inundated with a bunch of code reviews and other engineering related work |
| 02:17.50 | madrazr | one thing is |
| 02:17.54 | MisterA | I see |
| 02:18.09 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: I use web app and phone app too, but I only need to handle student proposals (I am org admin for KolibriOS). Handling both proposals and support the software is too hard for 1 person |
| 02:18.11 | madrazr | even if we convince GOSPO to pay someone for support, we want that some one to be a Melange contributor already |
| 02:18.19 | madrazr | since we don't really have time to train a support person |
| 02:18.28 | madrazr | "support staff" |
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| 02:19.11 | madrazr | my real dream is |
| 02:19.13 | madrazr | someday |
| 02:19.32 | madrazr | someday after so much time investment on prospective students, some GSoC student will step up to that |
| 02:20.31 | madrazr | MisterA: you are right. Phone apps are getting better for IRC. But shell access, running Python consoles and esp running GAE SDK are all not there yet |
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| 02:20.57 | madrazr | MisterA: if you ping me on IRC and I am on phone, I can do everything I can to tell you if the solution has something that you need to do |
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| 02:21.10 | KolibriOS|yogev | madrazr: And it's also very easy to mistype on the phone, so deleting user is not recommended via phone :-) |
| 02:21.28 | MisterA | pretty much, lol |
| 02:21.30 | madrazr | but if I have to go and check the data or for example manually fiddle with the datastore like for unmentor students, it is not possible |
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| 02:21.59 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: that too, very true |
| 02:22.10 | madrazr | I can't hate my autocorrect enough |
| 02:22.39 | madrazr | the last thing I want is for my autocorrect to correct UPDATE to DELETE in my database query :P |
| 02:22.59 | MisterA | lol |
| 02:23.04 | MisterA | you just reminded me of something |
| 02:23.12 | KolibriOS|yogev | madrazr: Yes, phones and tablets are for consumers of content, they are not for producers of content. If anybody disagrees with me, they can kill me but I won't change my mind. If you are a producer of content, you still need a PC (even though some people say it's dead), and you will need it for long time yet. |
| 02:23.14 | madrazr | MisterA: damnyouautocorrect.com ? :P |
| 02:23.17 | MisterA | no |
| 02:23.18 | MisterA | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png |
| 02:23.21 | MisterA | this^ |
| 02:23.38 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: very true. I side with you on this |
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| 02:24.08 | madrazr | MisterA: yeah, welcome SQL injection attack :D |
| 02:24.13 | MisterA | lmao |
| 02:25.20 | MisterA | KolibriOS|yogev: what I personally do when I need to use my computer is I remotely connect to it from orb or jaadu or some app and do what I need to(although I rarely need to do that) |
| 02:25.29 | MisterA | it's useful in solving issues when you're away |
| 02:25.45 | MisterA | and unable to physically access your machine |
| 02:26.14 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: Yes but what about the fully-functional keyboard? Ever tried to do stuff on your tablet like editing text, moving it to other page, etc.? |
| 02:26.57 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: Ever worked with a database via SQL tool? |
| 02:27.01 | MisterA | I personally have no problem with that. I've got typing on my phone and keyboard down to muscle memory at this point and can do it with my eyes closed. |
| 02:27.06 | MisterA | and only in class, lol |
| 02:27.08 | KolibriOS|yogev | I can give plenty of examples. |
| 02:27.43 | madrazr | MisterA: if you have ninja-ed that fair enough |
| 02:27.46 | madrazr | I am still a mere mortal |
| 02:27.53 | madrazr | :P |
| 02:28.01 | MisterA | lol |
| 02:28.29 | madrazr | MisterA: I have exactly the problems that KolibriOS|yogev mentions |
| 02:29.16 | MisterA | I can see how it's a problem for stuff like that |
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| 02:29.28 | MisterA | But I was suggesting it as a solution to inactivity on the irc |
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| 02:32.13 | madrazr | MisterA: I agree with your point in general. I really chose "life" as the word to make things intentionally vague |
| 02:32.46 | madrazr | it is sort of unfair to expect people to work more than the assigned hours if it is part of their full time job |
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| 02:33.01 | madrazr | and if he/she is a voluntary contributor it is unfair to expect anything at all |
| 02:33.02 | MisterA | of course, I agree completely |
| 02:33.08 | madrazr | even a minute |
| 02:33.20 | madrazr | if he/she contributes his time it is great! |
| 02:33.28 | madrazr | but if not, what you pay is what you get |
| 02:33.57 | madrazr | so having said that expecting anyone to install a phone app |
| 02:34.06 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: Regarding inactivity on IRC, as both madrazr and I said, we already use phone apps when AFK |
| 02:34.28 | madrazr | and be replying to IRC support questions when they are having a chat or something with their significant others is somewhat unreasonable IMHO |
| 02:34.37 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: yeah |
| 02:34.39 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: But those apps can only allow us to answer questions, not run DB changes |
| 02:34.42 | MisterA | of course, hahaha |
| 02:35.03 | madrazr | s/others/other/ |
| 02:35.32 | MisterA | no one would expect anything like that from you in such a situation, i'd hope not at least lol |
| 02:36.49 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: When a potential student asks me a question when I am AFK, I get a notification on my phone so I can see what he needs. If it's a question that doesn't include code, sure I can answer him. But if I need to write him some code or link him to some code that others wrote, how exactly I am going to do it via phone? |
| 02:37.08 | MisterA | i'm not suggesting something like that |
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| 02:37.27 | MisterA | it does however help to know that a student wanted to know something like that and you can send it to them the next time you see them |
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| 02:38.08 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: Well, I also use IRCCLOUD so I appear online 24/7, so I will always answer when back to computer. |
| 02:38.20 | MisterA | That always works as well |
| 02:38.25 | MisterA | you've got it figured out :P |
| 02:38.49 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: I purchased IRCCLOUD license + phone app the day we got selected :-D |
| 02:39.06 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: It's only $5 a month, I can afford that heh |
| 02:39.29 | stqism | KolibriOS|yogev: A bouncer is very nice, works with my phone too |
| 02:39.52 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: The biggest problem with it is whether the student will still be online when you answer him/her. |
| 02:39.55 | stqism | Also, was free |
| 02:40.09 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: I think even stqism mentioned someone asking and the quitting in 1 minute. |
| 02:40.18 | KolibriOS|yogev | Even before you manage to read his/her question :-) |
| 02:40.21 | MisterA | I see that all the time, lol |
| 02:40.48 | madrazr | KolibriOS|yogev: that is the most annoying thing even for me |
| 02:41.05 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: So if someone asks me at 4:00AM my time (and I am sleeping), I will see it at 10:00AM (in 6 hours) - I don't know if the student will be around to wait so long. |
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| 02:42.30 | KolibriOS|yogev | MisterA: Which brings me back to the original #melange channel problem - they need to have 2 people so they can make shifts :-) |
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| 02:46.32 | misingnoglic | Hey, I'm just making sure but an acceptance letter is proof of enrollment even for people currently attending school right? |
| 02:46.38 | stqism | KolibriOS|yogev: Email solves your issue |
| 02:47.00 | stqism | misingnoglic: Only if it says you'll be enrolled by April 21th, I think it was |
| 02:47.46 | misingnoglic | Would an acceptance letter dated last year technically prove that? |
| 02:48.14 | stqism | No, because you might not be currently enrolled. |
| 02:48.19 | stqism | Try a transcript |
| 02:49.03 | misingnoglic | ok |
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| 02:49.27 | misingnoglic | The site says though that "•a letter from a college or university dated on or before 21 April 2014 stating that you had been accepted to attend" is good, even though I don't see how that shows you are enrolled. I won't question the google overlords though |
| 02:49.40 | olly | stqism: it doesn't have to say you are enrolled |
| 02:49.56 | misingnoglic | isn't it a proof of enrollment though? |
| 02:50.02 | stqism | olly: Last year |
| 02:50.23 | stqism | olly: "dated last year" |
| 02:50.34 | olly | misingnoglic: when you say "school", do you mean "high school" or "university"? |
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| 02:50.38 | misingnoglic | University |
| 02:50.58 | olly | ah, then ignore me |
| 02:51.04 | stqism | olly: It's the idea that x could attend y school and drop out after a semester and still apply |
| 02:51.41 | olly | sure, i thought this was the case where someone was at (high) school, and had an acceptance letter for uni for the next academic year |
| 02:51.47 | stqism | misingnoglic: Since I don't represent Google, perhaps an email to carols@google.com for an officially blessed response might work |
| 02:51.57 | olly | in that case, they're good in they're accepted before 21st April |
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| 02:53.19 | olly | given an ISIC card is apparently acceptable, the "dropping out after one semester" case can't be something they're very concerned about |
| 02:53.45 | stqism | Hah, would still suggest he have a Carol blessed response :P |
| 02:54.17 | MisterA | I uploaded a screenshot of my class schedule on the week of april 21st, lol |
| 02:55.06 | stqism | MisterA: It's so simple it's brilliant |
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| 03:34.54 | Kurt_Mc | Hello, I want to verify that the documents I have from my university are sufficient for proof of enrollment, who do I talk to about that? |
| 03:35.22 | misingnoglic | The website says to just upload them and if they aren't good they'll ask you for something else |
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| 03:35.45 | Kurt_Mc | Oh cool, thanks misingnoglic |
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| 03:39.53 | umccullough | !proof | Kurt_Mc |
| 03:39.53 | gsocbot | Kurt_Mc: "proof" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/proofofenrollment |
| 03:40.11 | umccullough | that's about the best we can do from here |
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| 04:08.50 | dskilly | Hello? |
| 04:11.24 | sprinf | hi |
| 04:11.48 | dskilly | Could I ask something if you don't mind? |
| 04:12.04 | olly | !ask | dskilly |
| 04:12.04 | gsocbot | dskilly: "ask" is Don't ask to ask, just ask. Also see !smartquestions. |
| 04:12.27 | dskilly | I'm lost already... never used IRC |
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| 04:12.49 | olly | dskilly: there's an implied permission to ask questions on IRC |
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| 04:13.03 | olly | no point asking "can I ask a question?" |
| 04:13.11 | olly | and by doing so, you already have anyway... |
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| 04:14.23 | dskilly | Alright, just that it seemed so quiet, about GSoC I don't get what level of programming experience is okay to participate in a project? |
| 04:14.25 | olly | dskilly: so ... what's the question you have? |
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| 04:14.50 | olly | !amigoodenough | dskilly |
| 04:14.50 | gsocbot | dskilly: "amigoodenough" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch003_am-i-good-enough/ |
| 04:14.59 | olly | that's a good summary |
| 04:15.14 | dskilly | gsocbot & olly: thanks |
| 04:15.57 | dskilly | Oh wait, I read that and the FAQ section of GSoC and I still feel uneasy about it |
| 04:16.10 | MisterA | dskilly: it depends on the organization you want to apply to |
| 04:16.27 | MisterA | some organizations have harder projects, others have easier projects |
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| 04:16.44 | MisterA | in truth, as long as you can understand what you're doing you are probably good enough |
| 04:17.11 | olly | and play to your strengths - look for projects where other skills or interests you have are relevant |
| 04:17.36 | dskilly | Yeah, I tried looking into the ideas list from various organizations but I feel really lost |
| 04:18.19 | dskilly | Even though they provide descriptions on what to do and unfortunately I think my skill level is around entry level |
| 04:18.27 | MisterA | dskilly: have you ever worked on an actual non-academic project before? |
| 04:18.31 | olly | i'd pick an org or two you like the sound of and go and talk tothem |
| 04:18.47 | MisterA | if not, we're in the same boat. Find an organization you like or two like olly suggested and talk to them about it |
| 04:18.48 | dskilly | MisterA: None so far |
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| 04:19.00 | olly | most students haven't |
| 04:19.00 | dskilly | Alright |
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| 04:20.25 | dskilly | Is there any organizations recommended for general program creation? |
| 04:20.47 | dskilly | Or any suggestions |
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| 04:21.10 | olly | i think all the orgs have particular areas they are focussed on |
| 04:21.16 | MisterA | yeah |
| 04:21.24 | dskilly | Yeah, they look very specialized |
| 04:21.33 | olly | dskilly: the tag search on the org list is a useful tool |
| 04:21.48 | olly | though the tags people have added vary a bit in quality |
| 04:21.51 | dskilly | alright |
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| 05:05.38 | dskilly | olly, gsocbot & MisterA: Okay, thanks for the advice and suggestions, good luck |
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| 05:24.30 | Bhash90 | hi |
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| 05:25.11 | stqism | Bhash90: Hello |
| 05:26.15 | Bhash90 | I registered as a student for GSOC |
| 05:26.44 | stqism | Bhash90: Okay |
| 05:26.50 | Bhash90 | but I didn't submit the proof of enrolment yet |
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| 05:27.06 | stqism | Okay as well |
| 05:27.15 | Bhash90 | should I submit it before submit any proposal? |
| 05:27.30 | stqism | It doesn't matter at all |
| 05:27.39 | stqism | It's a matter of beating the timelines, that's all |
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| 05:36.55 | Bhash90 | stqism: I don't find any link to upload proposal |
| 05:37.15 | stqism | !unmentor | Bhash90 |
| 05:37.15 | gsocbot | Bhash90: "unmentor" is (#1) mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com and Cc: carols@google.com with your melange username (top of the page) and say you mistakenly registered as a mentor, or (#2) Or just register again with another GMail account |
| 05:37.23 | stqism | Than you most likely signed up as a mentor |
| 05:38.03 | jinks | Hey, I've got a problem trying to fill my application for the GSoC program. Is there anyone I could talk to? |
| 05:38.19 | stqism | jinks: Lemmie guess, no submit proposal? |
| 05:38.38 | Bhash90 | ok thanks |
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| 05:56.03 | kanupatar | hi guys |
| 05:56.12 | stqism | kanupatar: Hello |
| 05:56.27 | kanupatar | is there any mentoring organisations are here? |
| 05:56.35 | stqism | A couple, why? |
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| 05:57.13 | kanupatar | stqism: I would like to contribute some |
| 05:58.13 | stqism | kanupatar: I see |
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| 05:59.30 | kanupatar | stqism: i am a research student in cs and would like to contribute in some open source projects..but not interested to partipate in gsoc |
| 05:59.44 | stqism | kanupatar: What languages do you know? |
| 06:00.09 | kanupatar | stqism: C programming language, specifically embedded |
| 06:00.39 | kanupatar | stqism: I did lot of functional testing on production codes |
| 06:00.48 | kanupatar | and some device drivers |
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| 06:01.02 | stqism | kanupatar: Sounds like a low level kinda guy. |
| 06:01.04 | kanupatar | and some middleware porting |
| 06:01.12 | kanupatar | stqism: yes a bit. |
| 06:01.50 | stqism | kanupatar: Can you deal with udp, hash tables, etc? |
| 06:01.56 | kanupatar | stqism: i am clear about some basics in computer science... |
| 06:02.13 | kanupatar | stqism: I dont have contacts dear |
| 06:02.47 | stqism | kanupatar: We could really use someone who can learn libupnp and interface it in to our core library |
| 06:02.50 | stqism | All C |
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| 06:02.58 | kanupatar | stqism: right now, I can spend around 2-3 hours a day for open source activities and it can improve my knowledge as well |
| 06:03.08 | stqism | kanupatar: Noted |
| 06:03.34 | kanupatar | stqism: thanks |
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| 06:04.03 | stqism | Do you like any OSS projects in particular? |
| 06:04.49 | kanupatar | stqism: sorry, means? |
| 06:05.08 | stqism | Do you know any open source projects? |
| 06:05.10 | brlcad | kanupatar: you just need to multiply that by 15 ;) |
| 06:05.29 | dorkcat | stqism: Are you FreeBSD? |
| 06:05.37 | stqism | dorkcat: No, why? |
| 06:05.48 | dorkcat | Oh, you're in #freebsd I think.. |
| 06:05.57 | stqism | I am |
| 06:06.07 | stqism | I am also a FreeBSD user |
| 06:06.33 | dorkcat | I'm interested on plan 9, FreeBSD and illumos right now, maybe samba |
| 06:06.34 | kanupatar | stqism: I heard a lot of open source projects but haven't got chance to contribute to specific ones I am interested deeply..i would like to maintain something |
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| 06:06.54 | kanupatar | brlcad: means? |
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| 06:07.13 | stqism | dorkcat: +1, so much. Just bought a Sun Fire to run OpenIndiana |
| 06:07.35 | stqism | kanupatar: I recommend finding a project you like |
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| 06:07.53 | stqism | dorkcat: Also, +1 with Plan 9, more UNIX than UNIX |
| 06:08.08 | kanupatar | stqism: i tried but not getting some valid stuffs or contatcs |
| 06:08.21 | kanupatar | [11:31] <stqism> kanupatar: We could really use someone who can learn libupnp and interface it in to our core library [11:31] <stqism> All C |
| 06:08.27 | kanupatar | stqism: what about this? |
| 06:08.46 | stqism | kanupatar: For Tox, https://tox.im |
| 06:09.04 | stqism | It's for our holepunching, upnp is much nicer if possible |
| 06:09.44 | kanupatar | stqism: The webpage at https://tox.im/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address. |
| 06:10.08 | stqism | kanupatar: I just loaded it. |
| 06:10.14 | kanupatar | stqism: oops |
| 06:10.29 | kanupatar | stqism: then my uni might have blocked that |
| 06:10.39 | stqism | Apparently |
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| 06:10.53 | kanupatar | stqism: are you a mentor ? |
| 06:10.54 | stqism | Just checked 2 browsers with empty caches to confirm |
| 06:11.17 | kanupatar | stqism: thanks for the patience |
| 06:11.18 | stqism | kanupatar: I'm an org Admin, but I mentor too. |
| 06:11.26 | kanupatar | stqism: cool |
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| 06:12.04 | kanupatar | stqism: I really like low level stuffs like drivers, boot loaders,rtos etc etc |
| 06:12.41 | stqism | kanupatar: Sounds like someone like Haiku or FreeBSD might be a good fir |
| 06:12.43 | stqism | fit |
| 06:13.08 | kanupatar | stqism: how can I get an entry there? |
| 06:13.48 | stqism | kanupatar: #freebsd or #haiku |
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| 06:14.25 | kanupatar | stqism: thanks |
| 06:14.44 | kanupatar | stqism: what type of projects you are handling? |
| 06:15.06 | stqism | kanupatar: A distributed Skype replacement |
| 06:16.00 | kanupatar | stqism: ohh..skype is opensource? |
| 06:16.12 | stqism | kanupatar: No |
| 06:16.18 | kanupatar | stqism: then? |
| 06:16.29 | stqism | We are |
| 06:16.57 | kanupatar | stqism: what language it is? |
| 06:17.17 | stqism | kanupatar: C, with bindings for our core library in tons of stuff |
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| 06:18.57 | kanupatar | stqism: then I think I can test atleast :) |
| 06:19.38 | stqism | kanupatar: You're free to |
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| 06:20.28 | kanupatar | stqism: I can stress test it :) |
| 06:21.10 | stqism | It's a distributed network, you'd have some fun with that :) |
| 06:21.43 | kanupatar | stqism: cool |
| 06:22.00 | kanupatar | stqism: I have to gone through it basically |
| 06:22.18 | stqism | And? |
| 06:22.23 | stqism | Oh wait |
| 06:22.24 | stqism | nvm |
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| 06:24.30 | kanupatar | stqism: ok |
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| 06:27.49 | aps-sids | Hello everyone. I'm writing a proposal in GSoC website but I'm not able to figure out how to do formatting (bold text, bullets, etc.) in the Content box. Can someone please help me about the same? |
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| 06:36.58 | aps-sids | nevermind, formatting toolbar had not loaded properly. |
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| 06:38.08 | olly | aps-sids: you can also just switch the widget to source mode and paste in HTML you generated from something else |
| 06:38.17 | olly | though it can mangle formatting a bit at time |
| 06:38.31 | aps-sids | thanks for the tip olly :) |
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| 07:23.05 | rahul_ | Hii all |
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| 07:27.39 | rahul_ | here it is asking for enrollment form what is it? |
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| 07:32.27 | shrihari | !proof | rahul_ |
| 07:32.27 | gsocbot | rahul_: "proof" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/proofofenrollment |
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| 07:43.51 | ishitva | Hello |
| 07:44.14 | ishitva | I want to ask where do I have to submit my Proof Of Enrollment ? |
| 07:45.02 | ishitva | Found it . |
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| 08:05.07 | ishitva | I have uploaded my Proof Of Enrollement , till when can I expect Melange to give me the feedback whether the scans I have uploaded are valid or not ? |
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| 08:05.25 | Uzzair | Hi All |
| 08:05.26 | vedu | hello. anyone from around kolkata applying for gsoc this year? |
| 08:06.03 | vedu | ishitva: probably in 1-2 days you will get an email if the scan is acceptable or not |
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| 08:06.10 | ishitva | Okay |
| 08:06.13 | ishitva | Thanks ! |
| 08:06.14 | Uzzair | Can someone provide a sample of apllication for gsoc ? |
| 08:06.43 | vedu | ishitva: sorry. you will get an email only if the scan is NOT acceptable |
| 08:06.54 | ishitva | Okay |
| 08:07.14 | ishitva | vedu: I have submitted two scans . Front and Back of my college ID card |
| 08:07.44 | ishitva | I had to submit the back as it mentioned the duration till which I am a student of the college . |
| 08:07.53 | vedu | ishitva: does it have a join date and a expiry date? |
| 08:08.16 | ishitva | Join date is 2010 , and validity is mentioned as August 2014 |
| 08:08.32 | vedu | ishitva: them you are golden ;) btw I am just a fellow applicant |
| 08:08.49 | ishitva | Great ! |
| 08:09.03 | ishitva | So my scans will be acceptable ? |
| 08:09.44 | vedu | ishitva: yes. they will. You will be sure if a mail does not come in |
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| 08:09.56 | ishitva | Okay ! |
| 08:10.53 | vedu | Uzzair: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/public/google/gsoc2014/vedant/5707702298738688 |
| 08:11.04 | Uzzair | ok |
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| 08:13.24 | ishitva | Are the organizations making the proposals public ? |
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| 08:14.21 | olly | ishitva: some orgs require you to, others don't |
| 08:14.27 | ishitva | Okay |
| 08:14.28 | olly | you can choose to if you want |
| 08:14.34 | vedu | ishitva: it is your choice |
| 08:14.34 | ishitva | Okay |
| 08:14.46 | olly | vedu: well, not if the org require it |
| 08:14.48 | ishitva | Is it wise to include a sample patch in our application ? |
| 08:14.54 | olly | very much so |
| 08:15.27 | ishitva | Or specifying the method to be used will be better ? |
| 08:15.40 | vedu | ishitva: you mean a link, as a proof, of a (preferably accpeted) patch |
| 08:16.03 | ishitva | Accepted ptaches I have , but I am asking about the patch of the project I intend to work upon |
| 08:16.11 | vedu | ishitva: you do not need to submit actual code. but there should be links of the works you have done |
| 08:16.25 | ishitva | That I can specify as the bugs fixed . |
| 08:16.38 | vedu | you can look into my proposal. in the end of it I have mentioned it |
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| 08:17.07 | ishitva | But I thought that submitting a patch related to the project will demonstarte my ability to work on that Project . |
| 08:17.46 | kblin | some projects do have programming quizzes, there you need to provide patches |
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| 08:18.18 | vedu | ishitva: I cannot be sure. depends on the organization. |
| 08:18.37 | ishitva | Okay , so If I just explain my approach and mention a few of methods , that will be better than an actual 2 line change patch ? |
| 08:18.39 | kblin | it won't hurt, for sure |
| 08:18.49 | vedu | ishitva: but IMO doing code review on a patch in a proposal is a very bad method to do it |
| 08:18.59 | olly | ishitva: some orgs require a patch; even if they don't, including a patch is likely to make your proposal more compelling that another student who didn't |
| 08:19.01 | vedu | ishitva: yes |
| 08:19.04 | ishitva | Yes I agree |
| 08:19.16 | vedu | I said yes to Okay , so If I just explain my approach and mention a few of methods , that will be better than an actual 2 line change patch ? |
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| 08:19.49 | ishitva | olly: I have 2 accepted patches as well the reference to which I will definitely give. |
| 08:20.15 | vedu | kblin: it might hurt if your patch doesn't complie or is hard to understand at first glance. always better explain your approach |
| 08:20.25 | ishitva | but I am confused about the sample patch related to the project , as they wouldn't be able to review it through the proposal. |
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| 08:20.50 | kblin | ishitva: submit the patch through the proper channels, and then link to it in the proposal |
| 08:21.15 | Uzzair | how to create proposal any one can tell me any thing regarding proposal ? |
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| 08:21.32 | kblin | for example, one of the projects I admin for is on github, and the patches I'd expect would come in via pull requests |
| 08:21.44 | ishitva | Okay , but I already have submitted patches for three bugs , which I can easily put as a reference . Then I don't think I should inlcude a sample patch of the project I intend to work upon |
| 08:22.33 | ishitva | because the only purpose the patch on the applciation will solve is to show that I can create a patch in the manner which is acceptabel to the organization |
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| 08:22.52 | kblin | ishitva: if you think the patch is useful, go ahead and submit it. if you don't think the patch is useful, why bother? |
| 08:23.19 | kblin | have you submitted bug fixes for that org? |
| 08:23.19 | ishitva | But I still feel that I should include the patch :P |
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| 08:23.28 | ishitva | Yes I have fixed three bugs |
| 08:23.29 | vedu | ishitva: obviously they wont. take a look at my proposal. I have used code snippets but not actual patches https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/student/google/gsoc2014/vedant/5707702298738688 |
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| 08:24.05 | ishitva | vedu: Yes yours is a good application , +1 for you :) |
| 08:24.06 | kblin | ishitva: ok, I guess I'm just confused what you're trying to achive with the patch |
| 08:24.18 | vedu | ishitva: an acutal patch in code will contain +..code -..code. very hard to read |
| 08:24.36 | vedu | better you explain the patch |
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| 08:25.21 | panzone | i agree with vedu, a proposal isn' t the right place to show a real patch. |
| 08:25.31 | ishitva | kblin: The patch of the work which is required to be done throughout the project . |
| 08:26.01 | ishitva | panzone: Hmm , I guess vedu is correct . |
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| 08:26.56 | vedu | ishitva: how can you create a patch in few days that should be done in 3 months |
| 08:27.25 | ishitva | Even on the IRC I showed that patch to them , but they didn't get time to review it . So they just told that the patch looks sane , although they cannot comment about the functioanltiy , as it has to first applied then given a feedback on . |
| 08:27.38 | ishitva | vedu: a sample patch . |
| 08:28.02 | vedu | ishitva: exactly. that is what I said? |
| 08:28.08 | kblin | I still don't understand what you want to show with that |
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| 08:28.38 | vedu | ishitva: what do you mean by "sample" patch |
| 08:29.05 | ishitva | kblin: I want to show that I have understood the work pretty well and just like I fixed the issue which is smaller part of the complete project , I can fix the rest of the project too . |
| 08:29.40 | vedu | ishitva: explain that in words. where are you from btw |
| 08:29.49 | ishitva | vedu: Indai |
| 08:29.52 | ishitva | India* |
| 08:29.59 | panzone | anyway, i pubblished my proposal ( https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/public/google/gsoc2014/panzone/5629499534213120 ), could anyone with some free time read it ? i need all possible feedback, since my english is pretty poor. |
| 08:30.07 | vedu | ishitva: I guessed correct ;) me too |
| 08:30.14 | ishitva | Great ! |
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| 08:30.35 | ishitva | vedu: Because of Ish in the name right ? |
| 08:30.53 | vedu | ishitva: yes. which college? |
| 08:31.15 | ishitva | I am from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University Delhi |
| 08:31.35 | kblin | ishitva: honestly, if you want to include the patch, do so. as long as you also explain what you're planning to work on in text form, I can't see how it'll hurt |
| 08:31.51 | vedu | how long is the patch? |
| 08:32.06 | kblin | if the developers looking at your proposal are scared by a diff, you might want to look for a different project anyway ;) |
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| 08:32.10 | ishitva | Two line changes in the code . And in total 10 lines |
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| 08:32.50 | vedu | kblin: how many organizations are you mantaining? |
| 08:32.57 | kblin | two |
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| 08:33.56 | kblin | one year I was managing three, but I'm not involved in Wine enough anymore, feels a bit weird to make decisions on their behalf |
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| 08:48.09 | makis192 | Hello, I recently tried a solution that was given to me (send an email requesting it), to unmentor my google-melange account (I want to participate as a student), but 2 days have passed and nothing has happened yet… |
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| 08:49.52 | PulkoMandy | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:50.06 | makis192 | yes i did that |
| 08:50.06 | PulkoMandy | !unmentor | makis192 |
| 08:50.06 | gsocbot | makis192: "unmentor" is (#1) mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com and Cc: carols@google.com with your melange username (top of the page) and say you mistakenly registered as a mentor, or (#2) Or just register again with another GMail account |
| 08:50.42 | PulkoMandy | well, it seems a lot of students made that mistake this year, and this has to be fixed manually |
| 08:51.32 | makis192 | Well, I really don’t remember at which point I was asked what I wanted to participate |
| 08:51.53 | makis192 | Anyway thanks for the help, I guess I ll have to create another Gmail account |
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| 08:52.30 | PulkoMandy | you probably clicked the big red "register" button in the "mentor" fram |
| 08:52.44 | PulkoMandy | the "student" frame having no button at that time |
| 08:53.11 | PulkoMandy | so yes, if you're in a hurry to get access to the student area, try with another account |
| 08:53.33 | PulkoMandy | otherwise, contact the org you plan to work with and tell them you have this problem, so you can't submit the proposal there |
| 08:53.48 | PulkoMandy | you can use a google doc or some other way to work on it until this is fixed |
| 08:54.44 | makis192 | Hm yea, that might be better so I don’t just create a throwaway gmail account… |
| 08:55.02 | makis192 | Again, thank you for your help |
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| 11:17.08 | bipul | hello, I have submitted a bonafide certificate in Enrollment form. is it ok? |
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| 11:26.17 | bipul | any one around? , I am looking for a pice of information. |
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| 11:27.22 | bipul | I have submitted a bonafide certificate in Enrollment form. is it ok? |
| 11:28.12 | ajitkr1994 | please tell me about the bonafide certificate. |
| 11:28.30 | ajitkr1994 | how do we need to submit that ? |
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| 11:31.38 | jbisch | you submit the enrollment form through melange |
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| 11:33.45 | bipul | jbisch, Yes, I have register my google email there, and all sort of details and in enrollment , I have uploded my college Bonafide certificate. |
| 11:36.03 | jbisch | bipul: I was answering ajitkr1994. If your certificate is not okay, they will contact you. |
| 11:36.33 | bipul | jbisch, How about my question sir. |
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| 11:38.42 | jbisch | bipul: I think I answered your question. If the certificate is not okay, they will contact you to get something else that is okay. |
| 11:39.04 | bipul | ok thank you jbisch |
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| 11:46.45 | bePolite | Is it good to send my proposal to the mailing list of the Organization? |
| 11:47.06 | ajitkr1994 | you have to submit the proposal through melange. |
| 11:47.44 | bePolite | yep |
| 11:47.44 | jbisch | bePolite: It might be a good idea to get some feedback. Just be sure to choose the right mailing list and that you ultimately have to submit to melange |
| 11:47.49 | bePolite | I mean submitting for review |
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| 11:50.33 | bePolite | I'm feeling a little discouraged |
| 11:50.58 | PulkoMandy | just ask your org how they want to handle this |
| 11:51.13 | PulkoMandy | some prefer doing everything on melange (your proposal is editable there) |
| 11:51.26 | PulkoMandy | or on a google document, or a mailing list, or something else |
| 11:53.02 | bePolite | Okey thanks |
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| 11:55.15 | one_more_minute | !proof |
| 11:55.15 | gsocbot | one_more_minute: "proof" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/proofofenrollment |
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| 12:19.12 | nilspin | hello. |
| 12:19.26 | nilspin | where exactly do I send my proposal? |
| 12:20.02 | nilspin | I logged into melange,gave a proof of enrollment. |
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| 12:20.23 | nilspin | do I have to wait for it to be verified before I can submit my proposal? |
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| 12:29.03 | kblin | nilspin: dunno. do you have a large button to submit a proposal? |
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| 12:30.08 | jbisch | nilspin: Check the melange home page |
| 12:30.40 | nilspin | jbisch, nope. |
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| 12:31.15 | jbisch | hmm, I have no idea then. |
| 12:31.20 | nilspin | jbisch, sorry. Got it. |
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| 12:40.58 | jos | hi |
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| 12:41.40 | jos | if i have no innovative idea for a project how can i participate in gsoc |
| 12:41.56 | sthenc | take one of the suggested ideas |
| 12:42.18 | jos | hw can i do that |
| 12:42.45 | jbisch | jos: did you pick an org? |
| 12:43.10 | PulkoMandy | I guess it's good time to read the faq about how the program works... |
| 12:43.26 | jbisch | !faq | jos |
| 12:43.26 | gsocbot | jos: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
| 12:43.29 | gevaerts | !studentguide | jos |
| 12:43.29 | gsocbot | jos: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 12:43.29 | jos | buddy thanx i will read it once againn |
| 12:43.41 | gevaerts | That one is also useful |
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| 12:46.36 | jos | only today i was introduced to gsooc is it practical to make a try to submit a proposal |
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| 12:47.42 | somaen | yes |
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| 12:48.18 | somaen | There is still plenty of time. |
| 12:48.57 | jos | thanx man |
| 12:49.15 | somaen | Do you know which project you want to work on? |
| 12:49.25 | jos | no idea |
| 12:49.36 | jos | i m just goin through fa |
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| 12:49.47 | jos | i m just goin through faq |
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| 12:50.08 | somaen | Ah, well, if you find something that catches your fancy on the list of orgs, then the first step would be to get in contact with the organization. |
| 12:50.39 | somaen | Then you can discuss the project you want to do with them, and write a proposal. |
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| 12:51.25 | somaen | If there are multiple things that you like, then you are also free to apply to more than one project, although you can only be accepted by one in the end. |
| 12:51.41 | somaen | Much like applying for multiple jobs. |
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| 12:54.15 | jos | thanx <somaen> got some idea |
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| 13:26.23 | panzone | there are any mentors here ? i submited my proposal ( https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/public/google/gsoc2014/panzone/5629499534213120 ) and i could really want more feedback as possibile since my english is pretty poor and this is the first time i' m trying to apply for gsoc. |
| 13:27.59 | jbisch | useful is spelled useful |
| 13:28.41 | panzone | uh, true |
| 13:28.57 | gevaerts | I'd suggest keeping actual review discussions out of this channel |
| 13:29.23 | gevaerts | Asking here is fine, but there are about 430 people who don't need to know how words should be spelled :) |
| 13:29.37 | gevaerts | Well, they do need to know, but maybe they already do :) |
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| 13:31.03 | panzone | gevaerts: i understand but i don' t want a simple spellcheck, i want to know if this could be a valid proposal |
| 13:31.25 | gevaerts | panzone: oh, I'm not objecting to you asking here at all! |
| 13:31.30 | panzone | this is why i asked for mentors xD |
| 13:31.44 | gevaerts | It's just that if people are going to point out how to spell "useful", they should do that in a private message :) |
| 13:32.03 | gevaerts | General feedback that's useful to other students too is fine in here |
| 13:32.16 | jbisch | sorry |
| 13:32.22 | gevaerts | No harm done :) |
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| 13:33.09 | r4chi7 | panzone: you should get your proposal reviewed by your mentor. And your selection is not based on your English. It's based on how well you design your proposal |
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| 13:33.14 | panzone | jbisch: thank you anyway, i really missed that. |
| 13:34.17 | gevaerts | panzone: a quick look tells me that you shouldn't worry about your English. While a review by someone competent never hurts, I've seen *much* worse |
| 13:34.40 | gevaerts | goes back to looking for his bug |
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| 13:38.21 | panzone | r4chi7: this proposal is the result of a month of work with my organization. i just thought this could be a good place for obtaining more feedback about its qualities |
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| 13:39.23 | r4chi7 | panzone: but your mentors may not be present in this channel, and there is no one better than your mentor to give you feedback on your proposal :) |
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| 13:43.48 | panzone | r4chi7: true, but more is better in this case if possibile :) |
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| 13:52.04 | darnir | r4chi7: |
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| 13:52.47 | darnir | r4chi7: Not true. Sometimes getting reviews from outside helps. |
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| 13:53.13 | darnir | Students will often come to this channel looking for reviews to polish their proposals. |
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| 13:57.17 | _i | Can anyone please give me some advice on how to make my proposal better? |
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| 13:57.48 | Ch3ck | well it depends on the proposal |
| 13:58.00 | Ch3ck | start by working on grammar and spelling errors |
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| 13:58.16 | _i | Fine. Please go on. |
| 13:58.39 | Ch3ck | ask help from your org's mentors to review |
| 13:58.43 | Ch3ck | they best know what they want |
| 13:58.48 | darnir | _i: That's where it ends. You should have your mentor look at your proposal first and give you suggestions |
| 13:58.56 | Ch3ck | and make the corrections they propose |
| 13:59.00 | Ch3ck | darnir: exactly |
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| 14:00.25 | _i | I have already done this. But I was thinking that there might be some more points on which I can work upon. |
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| 14:01.14 | panzone | _i: same as me. a link to your proposal ? i' m a student, but if you want i want to help as much as possible |
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| 14:02.00 | Ch3ck | panzone: nice _i guess you have a mentor here already ;) |
| 14:02.33 | _i | panzone: If you don't mind then may I ask that for which organization are you applying? |
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| 14:02.52 | panzone | _i fair enough. i' m apply to GNU |
| 14:03.20 | _i | Thank you. By the way I'm applying for INCF. |
| 14:03.39 | Ch3ck | wow |
| 14:03.43 | Ch3ck | nice work guys |
| 14:03.51 | Ch3ck | panzone: what proj there? |
| 14:04.12 | _i | Upload client for ImageJ. |
| 14:04.24 | panzone | ck3ck: threads.h implementation for glibc |
| 14:04.35 | Ch3ck | panzone: nice |
| 14:04.35 | darnir | panzone: Did you have your proposal evaluated by your mentor? |
| 14:04.42 | _i | Great. |
| 14:04.53 | Ch3ck | _i: so what kind of proj is that? |
| 14:05.32 | _i | Well, there's an image processing program called ImageJ which is written in Java. |
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| 14:06.18 | _i | The task at hand is to make an upload client for including the functionality to upload to Dropbox. |
| 14:06.21 | Ch3ck | wow gr8 |
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| 14:06.25 | Ch3ck | love graphics |
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| 14:06.53 | panzone | darnir: i wrote the proposal thanks to the glibc mailing list. where mentor and all the community help me in the things i had understimate |
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| 14:07.54 | panzone | like pthread implementation complexity, a more precise development schedule and so on. |
| 14:09.18 | darnir | Yes, that's usually the case. Also the reason we suggest you have the mentor evaluate it first |
| 14:09.33 | darnir | The community is for nit-picking flaws and polishing |
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| 14:12.15 | panzone | darnir: also the mentor index me to learn gnu codestyle and glibc patch review process that help me for deciding the best way to work. |
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| 14:19.48 | r4chi7 | panzone: i believe you should include some Use Cases/Interaction diagrams in your proposal. They show that you have researched well in the area your project is in. |
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| 14:21.15 | gevaerts | Well, either that or they show you've been brainwashed by academics :) |
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| 14:22.58 | darnir | gevaerts: +1 |
| 14:23.05 | fgnievinski | GSoC is emailing me broken links; is this the right place to report, please? |
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| 14:25.40 | _i | Is it a bad thing? :) |
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| 14:32.19 | panzone | _i: normally not, but for some works using uml et similia aren' t the best things to use |
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| 14:36.23 | panzone | in this case all the time i could spent for creating use case or diagrams could be used for more usefull things, like decide what pthread functionality i' ll need |
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| 14:37.10 | darnir | Also people, don't forget to include the Community Bonding Period in your timelines. It's not free time. |
| 14:37.10 | panzone | this is only my opinion |
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| 14:39.09 | gevaerts | panzone: from the two minutes I've looked at your proposal, I'd say use case diagrams will *reduce* your chances :) |
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| 14:41.09 | VaticanCameos | I've never seen a proposal with a use case diagram. Why deviate from the prescribed format? That said, if one wants to include them, they could do so separately I guess. |
| 14:41.50 | VaticanCameos | I'm no authority on this. I just found it strange. |
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| 14:45.14 | kblin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:45.45 | MpoMp | ^promote this man |
| 14:46.22 | kblin | https://git.samba.org/?p=samba.git;a=blob;f=source3/web/swat.c;h=bbacdd15b31405328670932c4a8fe97a0796ac3b;hb=48ffca0acac83bb31266390361ee77e1eaa2f2be <-- |
| 14:47.55 | kblin | or https://git.samba.org/?p=samba.git;a=blob;f=libcli/util/ntstatus.h;h=5407da0b73d4fa8ac8c67f0c37006bdc93a8011c;hb=48ffca0acac83bb31266390361ee77e1eaa2f2be#l70 |
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| 14:49.08 | panzone | give a medal to kblin |
| 14:49.11 | summatusmentis | MpoMp: he's already got ops, what more can we do? |
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| 14:49.53 | kblin | :) |
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| 14:50.41 | TCD | summatusmentis: channel dictatorship |
| 14:51.50 | kblin | nobody has the intention to build a wall here |
| 14:51.51 | summatusmentis | that's carols |
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| 14:52.11 | summatusmentis | and perhaps lh in an emeritus way |
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| 14:57.17 | massa | Hi, I'm an applicant of GSoC this year. Could I ask about application process please? Well, I was asked to do "Connect with organizations" on My Dashboard by a community. I, however, couldn't find a link to that icon on My Dashboard. Is it for mentors only, but not for students? Thanks in advance :) |
| 15:00.18 | gevaerts | That's for mentors only |
| 15:00.45 | massa | gevaerts, All right. Thank you for your reply! |
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| 15:02.50 | Ivanovic | massa: as applicant you do need to do two things |
| 15:02.59 | Ivanovic | 1) submit data to google *including* proof of enrollment |
| 15:03.13 | Ivanovic | 2) go to the frontpage and hit the huge "submit" button for your proposal |
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| 15:03.36 | Ivanovic | (frontpage of google-melange.com while logged into your account) |
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| 15:04.57 | massa | Ivanovic, Ok, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks a lot :) |
| 15:05.09 | Ivanovic | and make sure to submit your proposal before the deadline |
| 15:05.24 | Ivanovic | there are no extensions and the time is given for a specific date in a specific timezone |
| 15:05.39 | Ivanovic | no reason at all will be accepted, even not if the page does not work as well the last 5mins |
| 15:05.44 | massa | Haha, sure sure. Thanks for your kindness :) |
| 15:06.25 | darnir | Yes. Connections are for mentors. |
| 15:06.26 | darnir | Students write proposals |
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| 15:07.28 | umccullough | orgs are telling students to make a conneciton? |
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| 15:07.41 | PulkoMandy | (and yes, the page *will* break for the last 5 minutes as all late students rush to try submit something...) |
| 15:07.41 | umccullough | must be a new org |
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| 15:09.37 | rihbyne | guys do we need to fill in the student form entirely with asterisks before proposal deadline or we can continue later if we are selected ? |
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| 15:10.26 | koosha | What is *exactly* the Google Summit after the GSoC ? |
| 15:10.43 | umccullough | it's for mentors |
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| 15:11.09 | koosha | that's means student may not participate? |
| 15:11.17 | umccullough | generally, no |
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| 15:12.16 | umccullough | it is a way that mentors and admins can learn how to become better at gsoc in subsequent years, sharing experiences and ideas |
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| 15:19.44 | rihbyne | can a student edit the leftover details of student form after gsoc proposal deadline. if the student gets selected ? |
| 15:21.24 | MatthewWilkes | rihbyne: The mentors may choose to allow it, but don't count on it. The proposal at the point of the deadline is the one that counts |
| 15:21.46 | MatthewWilkes | rihbyne: That said, if you do need to make changes, do explain it in the comments, I'm sure the organisation will appreciate it |
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| 15:23.08 | rihbyne | ok thanks MatthewWilkes |
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| 15:25.07 | tonythomas | Are we able to edit the proposal once we have submitted it ? |
| 15:25.14 | nuskarthik | hello all I seem to be facing difficulty in uploading my proposal |
| 15:25.25 | nuskarthik | could anyone please help me out? |
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| 15:30.58 | PulkoMandy | tonythomas: yes - but the mentors get notifications each time you edit it |
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| 15:33.30 | tonythomas | PulkoMandy: Thanks! |
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| 15:46.18 | nuskarthik | so where do we upload the updated proposals? |
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| 15:47.52 | dfighter | you update it on melange |
| 15:48.01 | dfighter | you don't *upload* it |
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| 15:51.58 | nuskarthik | i have been trying for a while initial i used to get an upload button |
| 15:52.03 | nuskarthik | now its just gone |
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| 15:52.13 | nuskarthik | has my organisation removed my role? |
| 15:52.24 | dfighter | wat |
| 15:52.56 | stqism | nuskarthik: Quick, get out, it's a trap! |
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| 15:54.06 | dfighter | nuskarthik, when I see a new system, first thing I do is get to know it |
| 15:54.09 | dfighter | that is click on things |
| 15:54.12 | dfighter | and see what they do |
| 15:54.23 | dfighter | and guess what usually this results in me knowing where to find things... |
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| 15:55.16 | dfighter | so let me just state that you can find your already submitted proposal in the system |
| 15:55.20 | dfighter | you are just a few clicks away |
| 15:55.28 | dfighter | homework 1: find where it is! |
| 15:56.33 | umccullough | nuskarthik, did you request a connection? |
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| 15:57.58 | umccullough | dfighter, i think in this case, "clicking on things" is probably what has gotten this person into trouble |
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| 15:58.38 | dfighter | umccullough, obviously I didn't mean clicking randomly |
| 15:58.50 | umccullough | "removed my role" sounds like they clicked on the connection request, which is only for mentors |
| 15:59.07 | umccullough | and once you have registered to be a mentor, you cannot be a student, and must re-register |
| 15:59.25 | dfighter | well then you found his problem |
| 15:59.31 | dfighter | I've never been a mentor |
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| 16:00.12 | dfighter | so obviously that biocomputer between my ears that's so great at matching patterns couldn't match this one :P |
| 16:00.15 | umccullough | nuskarthik, did you accidentally sign up as a mentor and request a connection? |
| 16:00.34 | dfighter | however he/she also said they could find a submit proposal button earlier |
| 16:00.47 | nuskarthik | nope as a student, will just check in with the host organisation |
| 16:00.53 | umccullough | ok |
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| 16:01.08 | nuskarthik | thanks dfighter and umccullough |
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| 16:02.09 | umccullough | also, issues with melange are best directed to #melange |
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| 16:05.09 | nuskarthik | i think it's a connection issue on the organisation; they marked me as having "No Role" again |
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| 16:05.17 | nuskarthik | will let them know |
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| 16:06.04 | gevaerts | nuskarthik: that *really* sounds like you signed up as a mentor... |
| 16:06.12 | umccullough | yes, sounds like you requested a mentor role |
| 16:06.20 | umccullough | !unmentor | nuskarthik |
| 16:06.20 | gsocbot | nuskarthik: "unmentor" is (#1) mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com and Cc: carols@google.com with your melange username (top of the page) and say you mistakenly registered as a mentor, or (#2) Or just register again with another GMail account |
| 16:06.25 | dfighter | well I don't have such role thingy, and I am a student, so yes they might be right |
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| 16:07.06 | nuskarthik | oh ok thanks again |
| 16:07.21 | umccullough | not the first, and won't be the last :P |
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| 16:07.41 | dfighter | altough I'm not sure how they manage to do this |
| 16:07.55 | umccullough | clicking on things... |
| 16:08.10 | dfighter | without reading? |
| 16:08.19 | umccullough | i won't speculate on that part ;) |
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| 16:09.39 | dfighter | fair enough |
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| 16:09.57 | nuskarthik | but isn't a bit weird not to see your status i.e. student/mentor |
| 16:10.13 | nuskarthik | hey I'll own up to any mistake made by me :) |
| 16:10.43 | umccullough | fortunately, melange is a FOSS project :D |
| 16:10.51 | umccullough | feel free to help them improve it |
| 16:12.15 | nuskarthik | haha saw that :) ... hmm |
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| 16:24.37 | carols | serves some coffee and tea |
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| 17:08.59 | zombiehippie | Can I propose a project for the summer after my senior year of High school? |
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| 17:10.37 | dfighter | zombiehippie, http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#2._Whos_eligible_to_participate_as_a |
| 17:11.23 | zombiehippie | Thank you. |
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| 17:15.13 | MatthewWilkes | carols: I'm loving your emails to -discuss this year, by the way. |
| 17:15.25 | MatthewWilkes | They're making me chuckle |
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| 17:15.29 | carols | MatthewWilkes: this year in particular? |
| 17:15.33 | carols | not previous years? :-) |
| 17:15.45 | MatthewWilkes | I think you're being tougher this year. I might be wrong! |
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| 17:15.56 | carols | don't let my boss hear that |
| 17:15.59 | carols | ;-) |
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| 17:17.04 | brlcad | carols: you have a somewhat different tone this year :) |
| 17:17.07 | gevaerts | MatthewWilkes: we're all getting older, which means students in early gsocs *have* to have been better |
| 17:17.11 | carols | brlcad: do i? huh. |
| 17:17.20 | brlcad | just a little more snarky |
| 17:17.30 | carols | i certainly have emails from 2010 where i simply said "No" to students |
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| 17:17.50 | zombiehippie | Are there comparable programs for high school students? |
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| 17:17.56 | brlcad | zombiehippie: GCI |
| 17:17.57 | carols | zombiehippie: sure, GCI |
| 17:18.13 | MatthewWilkes | but it's a good thing! |
| 17:18.22 | carols | i'm glad you think so :-) |
| 17:18.24 | zombiehippie | Thanks :) |
| 17:18.27 | carols | yw |
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| 17:18.41 | gevaerts | still wonders about the "code-in" name |
| 17:18.54 | gevaerts | It doesn't give me a headache though :) |
| 17:18.57 | carols | gevaerts: that was all chris. |
| 17:18.59 | carols | he chose it. |
| 17:19.01 | MatthewWilkes | gevaerts: It's better than Google Highly Open Participation Contest |
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| 17:20.23 | panzone_ | i have a question: in case our proof of enrollment aren' t sufficent, will we have enough time to submit another one ? |
| 17:20.24 | zombiehippie | I don't understand. Is GCI closed, therefore useless to participate in? |
| 17:20.34 | carols | panzone: sure, you can always re-upload at any time. |
| 17:20.48 | carols | zombiehippie: well, no, you can't participate right now. we don't run never-ending programs. |
| 17:20.55 | stqism | zombiehippie: Like GSoC, GCI has timelines and years |
| 17:20.57 | carols | they have dates and deadlines and timeframes |
| 17:21.00 | panzone_ | carols: even after the student deadline ? |
| 17:21.06 | carols | panzone_: indeed |
| 17:21.18 | panzone_ | carols: thank you |
| 17:21.19 | carols | yw |
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| 17:21.32 | gevaerts | carols: of course, if he likes painkillers, who am I to object? :) |
| 17:21.51 | carols | gevaerts: i think he was thinking more along the lines of "school's out, code's in" |
| 17:22.18 | zombiehippie | Okay, I was asking because there are still many open tasks, but the competition is closed. |
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| 17:22.41 | carols | zombiehippie: indeed, not all of them were completed. you're more than welcome to go contribute to an open source org whenever you like. |
| 17:22.48 | carols | you could even ask them about those specific tasks. |
| 17:23.04 | carols | we don't expect that all the tasks will be completed |
| 17:23.12 | carols | that would be a bit much even for hundreds of students :-) |
| 17:23.28 | carols | in the same way we don't expect all the gsoc projects from the org's ideas pages to all be completed |
| 17:23.41 | zombiehippie | You are really helpful, thank you. |
| 17:23.59 | carols | you're very welcome |
| 17:24.02 | carols | would you like some tea? |
| 17:24.31 | Ivanovic | carols: i see one difference to the past years |
| 17:24.37 | Ivanovic | you are offering tea more often in here! |
| 17:24.42 | Ivanovic | great |
| 17:24.43 | MatthewWilkes | carols: I'm going to have to have a word with the new office about getting proper tea. They only have bags. |
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| 17:24.43 | carols | ah |
| 17:24.44 | Ivanovic | year! |
| 17:24.47 | carols | i'm drinking more tea too |
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| 17:24.54 | carols | MatthewWilkes: sigh. |
| 17:24.56 | downey | there's never enough tea. |
| 17:25.01 | MatthewWilkes | They're coffee people. |
| 17:25.03 | MatthewWilkes | I don't understand. |
| 17:25.06 | derdon | do you have cocoa as well? or is that a too special request? |
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| 17:25.12 | zombiehippie | Am I right to fell disappointed that my [thriving nodejs project](http://github.com/silverwind/droppy) will not be applicable to any sort of program, because I am not a current Freshman? |
| 17:25.15 | Ivanovic | why would anyone drink coffee instead of tea? |
| 17:25.21 | meflin | crewl and unusual punishment! |
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| 17:25.45 | brlcad | zombiehippie: it's whether you're a student on april 22 |
| 17:25.56 | carols | brlcad: 21st. |
| 17:26.01 | brlcad | sorry |
| 17:26.02 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: that is why i bring my own =) |
| 17:26.11 | carols | brlcad: or are you in australia? ;-) |
| 17:26.17 | brlcad | I wish |
| 17:26.23 | carols | me too. |
| 17:26.27 | carols | it's so nice there. |
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| 17:26.42 | MatthewWilkes | scorche|sh: I'm going to have to start. They're big on providing everything, though, so they may well just turn me loose on palais des thes with their card… |
| 17:26.50 | brlcad | says the lady in sunnyfornia |
| 17:26.55 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: this item is integral to my own work-tea-setup: http://www.libretea.com/ |
| 17:26.58 | carols | it sure is beautiful here too. |
| 17:27.04 | downey | derdon: i make a good cocoa tea |
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| 17:27.24 | derdon | that sounds ... interesting |
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| 17:27.38 | derdon | I hope it's something else than I imagine |
| 17:27.55 | brlcad | i think i'd spend weeks working on a laptop on a picnic table up in Mir woods |
| 17:28.03 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: apparently they are now saying on their website that they sell tot he UK too with local shipping |
| 17:28.16 | carols | brlcad: sounds like my weekend! i live in sausalito. it's a long walk or a short drive. |
| 17:28.34 | brlcad | carols: that's just mean rubbing it in like that |
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| 17:28.46 | brlcad | below freezing here (again) |
| 17:28.51 | brlcad | 50mph gusting |
| 17:28.51 | carols | brlcad: well, we don't have any water |
| 17:28.53 | carols | so there's that. |
| 17:29.12 | brlcad | there is that |
| 17:29.16 | brlcad | much more green this way |
| 17:29.18 | gevaerts | brlcad: move to the *original* centigrade scale, and below freezing is *good* :) |
| 17:29.29 | MatthewWilkes | scorche|sh: I have something like that. My main one is something like https://www.bodum.com/gb/en-us/shop/detail/1805-01/ but I sometimes use http://twinings.co.uk/foodservice/merchandising/crockery/tisane-teapot-1296 |
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| 17:29.54 | carols | brlcad: we should pipe your snow runoff to our state. |
| 17:30.12 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: i find that using a teapot and all at work is too much clean-up work and only do that at home |
| 17:30.28 | MatthewWilkes | scorche|sh: If you use leaves you can use a couple of times it's fine |
| 17:30.41 | MatthewWilkes | scorche|sh: Ah, here's the main one: http://siptea.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Sip-Tea-Glass-Assam-Teapot-by-Bodum.jpg |
| 17:30.52 | terri | used to have a tea duck at work: http://www.amazon.com/DCI-Tea-Duckie-Infuser/dp/B004DDBUXQ |
| 17:31.06 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: i do, but the item i linked works for that as well - i just only need to clean one thing rather than multiple things =) |
| 17:31.11 | MatthewWilkes | terri: hehehe! |
| 17:31.25 | MatthewWilkes | scorche|sh: It's just a pot and a cup! |
| 17:31.54 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: instead of just a glass! |
| 17:31.56 | meflin | http://www.amazon.com/FORLIFE-Brew-Mug-Extra-Fine-Infuser/dp/B001JPA3Y8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394731891&s=kitchen&sr=1-3 |
| 17:32.08 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: 100% more work! |
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| 17:33.53 | MatthewWilkes | scorche|sh: You amernicans with your bagel slicers and combined cups and pots. It's just a bit of washing up! |
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| 17:34.18 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: sure, but i try not to do more than necessary ;) |
| 17:34.25 | carols | meflin: no purple :-( |
| 17:34.31 | scorche|sh | MatthewWilkes: efficiency! |
| 17:34.44 | Lyude | Other then being a student and having open source contributions already logged, what else is taken into consideration when picking who gets into the GSoC? |
| 17:34.54 | carols | Lyude: the organization's criteria |
| 17:35.00 | carols | you should ask them what that is. |
| 17:35.27 | Lyude | Oh, so the organization you're working with chooses who gets taken in? |
| 17:35.32 | carols | Lyude: yep |
| 17:35.37 | carols | they all choose the students |
| 17:36.00 | carols | google couldn't reasonably be expected to choose students, nor should we. |
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| 17:36.49 | carols | MatthewWilkes: still snarky? :-) |
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| 17:37.01 | carols | or brlcad: still snarky? :-) |
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| 17:37.48 | MatthewWilkes | Quite reasonable |
| 17:37.55 | carols | here here |
| 17:37.58 | brlcad | :) |
| 17:38.15 | MatthewWilkes | carols: hear, hear |
| 17:38.20 | carols | :-P |
| 17:38.35 | MatthewWilkes | and on that note, I'm going to hide^W go home |
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| 17:38.44 | carols | cheers |
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| 17:49.49 | VarunAgw | Is anybody else having trouble writing weekly project milestones in proposal? Any tips? |
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| 17:53.02 | somaen | Be realistic |
| 17:53.21 | somaen | Try to break your project down into as small pieces as you can. |
| 17:54.21 | somaen | This isn't always that easy before the project has started, and trying to be too specific (i.e. using "X days" or "Y hours" as estimates) is likely to miss by quite a bit. |
| 17:54.33 | VarunAgw | somaen, That's the problem I am unable to break project in very small pieces. |
| 17:54.34 | VarunAgw | yes |
| 17:54.36 | somaen | So, look at the pieces you have, and take a ballpark estimate |
| 17:54.53 | somaen | but be realistic |
| 17:54.58 | VarunAgw | hmm, Well I will try |
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| 17:55.08 | edu159 | Hi, I have submitted my enrollment form (an .png with my university ID card) but I cannot see the option for submitting a proposal after doing that.... Any idea? |
| 17:55.16 | carols | edu159: yep |
| 17:55.21 | carols | it's on the front page |
| 17:55.39 | derdon | somaen: what is a ballpark estimate? |
| 17:55.50 | somaen | educated guess |
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| 17:56.19 | somaen | ballpark estimate would be an estimate where it's order of magnitude is atleast correct. |
| 17:56.20 | derdon | I see |
| 17:56.47 | somaen | i.e. I could estimate that I'd use a few weeks to do something, but instead end up using 3 |
| 17:57.07 | derdon | guess > estimate > ballpark estimate |
| 17:57.07 | somaen | if I'd ended up using 6 months, then that's way outside the ballpark. |
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| 17:57.12 | VarunAgw | Funny thing is organisation templete require weekly estimate. I don't know how can I estimate as small as a week period |
| 17:57.17 | derdon | uhm, no. actually < instead of > :D |
| 17:57.25 | carols | VarunAgw: the org can help you with that. |
| 17:57.37 | carols | talk to them about what you want to do and they can work with you to estimate by the week |
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| 17:58.13 | VarunAgw | carols, Sure, I will try talking with them. |
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| 17:58.16 | VarunAgw | Thanks everyone for help. |
| 17:58.18 | carols | great |
| 17:58.44 | edu159 | carols: Oh damn, thanks :) |
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| 17:58.52 | carols | yw |
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| 18:00.22 | edu159 | carols: One more thing. What organisations see is your public name and your real name, or they see your user name too? I have a different one associated with the account from another year from the one that I am using with the organisation I will apply for. |
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| 18:00.48 | carols | edu159: you'd have to ask the melange developers. i didn't implement the logic, so i have no idea. |
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| 18:01.37 | edu159 | carols: sure, thanks anyway |
| 18:01.40 | carols | yw |
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| 18:08.58 | edsiper | !next |
| 18:08.59 | gsocbot | edsiper: "next" is Student applications close for GSoC 2014 on 21 March, 2014 at 19:00 UTC |
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| 18:12.31 | rahulrrixe | Hi, I am trying to upload my proposal but it is asking about enrollment form. |
| 18:12.43 | carols | rahulrrixe: have you uploaded your enrollment form yet? |
| 18:13.12 | rahulrrixe | no can you give me the link to it |
| 18:13.22 | carols | it'll be the button on the front page of melange |
| 18:13.31 | rahulrrixe | ok |
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| 18:17.52 | rahulrrixe | carols : i just need to upload the doc version of http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/student_agreement |
| 18:18.01 | carols | um, what? |
| 18:18.01 | rahulrrixe | ? |
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| 18:18.22 | carols | no, you submit your proof of enrollment in your university as per our uiinstructions |
| 18:18.24 | carols | *instructions |
| 18:19.06 | rahulrrixe | like scan of id card |
| 18:19.18 | carols | did you read the instructions? |
| 18:20.19 | rahulrrixe | carols : nopes, sorry looking into FAQ |
| 18:20.24 | carols | great |
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| 18:26.38 | carols | serves some more coffee and tea |
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| 18:30.28 | bipul | I am really sorry to ask again, but where i can look for accepted organisation list and ideas. |
| 18:31.32 | meflin | bipul: orgs are listed here -> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014 |
| 18:31.39 | meflin | each org has there own idea list |
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| 18:41.55 | jahewson | Hi, I'm getting automated e-mails from melange with the following footer: |
| 18:42.07 | jahewson | You are receiving this message because you are participating in Google Summer of Code 2014. |
| 18:42.07 | jahewson | To stop receiving these messages, go to: . |
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| 18:43.01 | jahewson | I think that "." probably should have been the unsubscribe URL but it is missing... |
| 18:43.15 | jahewson | So how can I ubsubscribe? |
| 18:44.18 | carols | jahewson: are you sure they're from melange and not a google group? |
| 18:45.43 | jahewson | The sender is no-reply@google-melange.appspotmail.com |
| 18:46.10 | carols | jahewson: are you a mentor or a student? |
| 18:46.16 | jahewson | mentor |
| 18:46.19 | meflin | hmm I'm seeing emails like this from melange |
| 18:46.38 | carols | okay, then #melange, please :-) |
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| 18:46.51 | jahewson | will do, thanks |
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| 18:51.13 | rkmohapatra | i want to know when can I be submit the form for the idea suggested by the org |
| 18:51.25 | carols | rkmohapatra: you mean when can you submit your proposal? |
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| 18:51.53 | rkmohapatra | not my proposal |
| 18:52.06 | carols | okay, then sorry, which? |
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| 18:52.34 | rkmohapatra | i am interested for the proposal that where there in the ideas of the org |
| 18:52.53 | umccullough | mm... language barrier issues |
| 18:53.38 | carols | rkmohapatra: you want to view their ideas pages, you mean? |
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| 18:55.49 | rkmohapatra | this contain list of project ideas of joomla http://docs.joomla.org/GSOC_2014_Project_Ideas |
| 18:56.08 | carols | rkmohapatra: that's correct. |
| 18:56.10 | umccullough | in order to pick one of those ideas, you must write a proposal |
| 18:56.28 | rkmohapatra | ohhhh |
| 18:57.28 | rkmohapatra | kk thanku |
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| 18:59.39 | rkmohapatra | could u show me any public proposals |
| 18:59.56 | carols | rkmohapatra: you would need to know the URL for them |
| 19:00.05 | umccullough | http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch027_proposal-example-1/ |
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| 19:04.26 | edsiper | we need Markdown in melange https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=2090 |
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| 19:08.32 | derdon | no, ReST! and now let the markup fights begin ... |
| 19:08.48 | carols | derdon edsiper: you both are welcome to take that to a PM |
| 19:08.56 | derdon | sorry |
| 19:10.26 | KK4MGV_ | markdown++ |
| 19:11.04 | carols | one more comment and i'll kick the three of you out |
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| 19:16.38 | rahulrrixe | carols : should i have to paste down my whole proposal in the content field? |
| 19:16.59 | rahulrrixe | or I should provide link to it on the additional url |
| 19:17.16 | rahulrrixe | leaving content field field blank |
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| 19:18.42 | carols | rahulrrixe: what does the org prefer? |
| 19:19.07 | rahulrrixe | carols: It doesn't mentioned. |
| 19:19.14 | Ivanovic | rahulrrixe: then *ask* them! |
| 19:19.21 | Ivanovic | rahulrrixe: it is all about communication with your org |
| 19:19.41 | rkmohapatra | i have done a mini project for realted to my proposal should i write it down on my proposal or simply talk to them in irc or anyother suggestion |
| 19:19.47 | rahulrrixe | ok |
| 19:19.54 | carols | rahulrrixe: always talk to them |
| 19:19.57 | carols | whatever the question is |
| 19:19.58 | carols | ask them |
| 19:21.11 | Ivanovic | rkmohapatra: usually both |
| 19:21.20 | Ivanovic | mention what you have done and also talk to them about it |
| 19:21.30 | Ivanovic | talking is always good during gsoc and the rest of your life |
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| 19:21.58 | Ivanovic | and ask questions which help you to improve the proposal |
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| 19:22.30 | Ivanovic | the worst thing you as a student can do is ask the org after you were not accepted why you were not accepted and then hear the reply "because you never talked to us!" |
| 19:22.33 | Ivanovic | ;) |
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| 20:01.00 | jaan_ | Hi, I can't find the enrolment form online - any help? |
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| 20:01.15 | carols | jaan_: well, you provide it... |
| 20:01.19 | carols | you mean the place to submit it? |
| 20:01.28 | jaan_ | I found where to submit it; I can't find the form to fill out |
| 20:01.37 | carols | jaan_: there's no form to fill out |
| 20:01.44 | carols | you provide your proof of enrollment in your university |
| 20:01.52 | jaan_ | Ah OK! |
| 20:01.56 | jaan_ | Awesome, thanks :) |
| 20:01.59 | olly | !proof | jaan_ |
| 20:01.59 | gsocbot | jaan_: "proof" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/proofofenrollment |
| 20:01.59 | carols | yw |
| 20:02.07 | olly | that's the list of acceptable proof |
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| 20:05.39 | jaan_ | I also couldn't find arXiv on the mentoring organizations list - is it too late for my mentor to submit a proposal? |
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| 20:05.57 | carols | jaan_: if they're not mentoring, yes, it's too late to apply |
| 20:06.15 | carols | jaan_: but if you're a student, why don't you just find another org you'd like to work with? |
| 20:06.31 | jaan_ | I'll be working on a topic modeling project with a prof and I was hoping to try to get funded through gsoc |
| 20:06.59 | carols | jaan_: then you're welcome to apply under the ospo umbrella, but otherwise that probably isn't appropriate for the other mentoring orgs |
| 20:07.12 | jaan_ | What's the ospo umbrella? |
| 20:07.37 | carols | jaan_: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#16._What_if_there_is_no_organization |
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| 20:08.31 | olly | wonders if there are OSPO umbrellas |
| 20:08.48 | olly | i guess it doesn't rain a lot there |
| 20:08.58 | carols | much to our chagrin. |
| 20:09.19 | jaan_ | OK I think this fits the project: Prof. David Blei here at Princeton is willing to mentor me on a project to topic-model arXiv papers. |
| 20:09.25 | jaan_ | He runs part of arXiv.org, so is it really too late for him to apply as an organization? |
| 20:09.32 | carols | yes, it's really too late. |
| 20:09.46 | olly | jaan_: but that sounds suitable for the OSPO org |
| 20:09.47 | MisterA | carols: I haven't gotten any response related to it back yet(which is a good thing I guess), but is a screenshot of my class schedule the week of april 21st sufficient? |
| 20:10.02 | jaan_ | OK I'll draft a proposal - thanks a lot! |
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| 20:10.08 | carols | MisterA: you will only be contacted if there's a problem |
| 20:10.19 | MisterA | I see, alright |
| 20:10.19 | MisterA | thanks |
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| 20:13.37 | jaan_ | For submitting the proposal, I don't see "Google Open Source Programs Office" as the mentoring organization as the FAQ states. |
| 20:13.48 | jaan_ | However "Open Source Programs Office" is there - is this the one? |
| 20:14.00 | carols | correct |
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| 20:14.18 | jaan_ | Great, thanks! |
| 20:14.23 | carols | yw |
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| 20:15.22 | jaan_ | carlos: do you mind if I email you the final draft of the proposal before submitting? I'm planning on writing it like a research statement, but not sure if that's appropriate |
| 20:15.37 | jaan_ | carols* |
| 20:15.40 | carols | yes, i do mind. please just submit it and if we have comments we'll make them. |
| 20:15.47 | jaan_ | OK sounds good |
| 20:15.56 | carols | i get 400 emails a day |
| 20:16.09 | carols | i don't need more that can be managed elsewhere |
| 20:16.11 | carols | no offence |
| 20:16.20 | jaan_ | Yeah no worries, figured it's worth a shot anyway :P |
| 20:16.20 | gevaerts | carols: you really need to ask carlos to help you out a bit :) |
| 20:16.25 | carols | seriously |
| 20:16.36 | carols | i don't think we've ever heard from carlos, have we? |
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| 20:17.04 | gevaerts | He's lazy |
| 20:17.45 | carols | you're assuming it's a he. |
| 20:17.50 | jaan_ | one last Q: I'm looking at the Content field for applying under OSPO and it says 1. Why are you applying to be under the Google OSPO umbrella? 2. What university is it for and who will be your mentor? 4. What is your project idea? 5. What is your timeline for your project? 6. What are your success criteria? |
| 20:17.58 | jaan_ | Do I need to follow this structure? |
| 20:18.00 | carols | yes... |
| 20:18.07 | carols | that's why it's there. |
| 20:18.17 | jaan_ | Got it, thanks - just couldn't find it in the FAQ. |
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| 20:18.26 | gevaerts | carols: well, I've never encountered a female carlos |
| 20:18.31 | gevaerts | It's possible of course |
| 20:18.35 | carols | gevaerts: maybe that's not the person's name. |
| 20:18.55 | gevaerts | True, but then it's misleading :) |
| 20:19.00 | carols | so is gevaerts |
| 20:19.05 | carols | also very misleading |
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| 20:19.18 | gevaerts | hangs his head in shame |
| 20:19.19 | gevaerts | Yes |
| 20:19.21 | gevaerts | You're right |
| 20:19.25 | carols | cheers |
| 20:19.28 | carols | have some tea. |
| 20:19.31 | gevaerts | Thanks! |
| 20:20.27 | gevaerts | Still, if I were you, I'd try to find carlos. Whoever it is, they get a lot of your email :) |
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| 20:21.46 | MatthewWilkes | gevaerts: if there is a carlos at google he's done well to get his first name as his email address |
| 20:21.52 | jaan_ | lol my bad on the spelling =/ |
| 20:22.29 | gevaerts | MatthewWilkes: careful there! carols will have to chastise you for unwarranted assumtions too! |
| 20:22.42 | gevaerts | adds a missing p |
| 20:24.55 | olly | jaan_: topic modelling might be a fit for Xapian |
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| 20:26.19 | jaan_ | Cool, thanks olly I'll have a look |
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| 20:26.50 | jaan_ | I think my idea might be out of scope for them; I want to topic-model LaTeX equations |
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| 20:27.06 | jaan_ | have you heard of anything in this direction? |
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| 20:27.56 | olly | jaan_: i don't know a lot about topic modelling, but if the machinery isn't completely specific to that, it seems like something that would be useful |
| 20:28.05 | olly | feel free to talk to us about it anyway |
| 20:28.29 | olly | (olly == xapian org admin, to be clear) |
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| 20:28.46 | carols | olly: you're welcome to do that in the xapian channel :-) |
| 20:28.51 | carols | but it's not fit for #gsoc |
| 20:28.59 | olly | carols: sorry, yes, that's what I meant |
| 20:29.02 | jaan_ | OK I'll PM you olly |
| 20:29.03 | carols | cool |
| 20:29.04 | carols | thanks |
| 20:29.09 | olly | jaan_: #xapian would be bette |
| 20:29.11 | olly | +r |
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| 20:30.24 | rohit-dua | hello. Which form do we mean by 'enrollment form' at the upload options on google-melange? |
| 20:30.55 | carols | rohit-dua: have you read the instructions? |
| 20:31.34 | rohit-dua | carlos: I've read the FAQ. can you please point me to the instructions. |
| 20:31.40 | carols | !proof |
| 20:31.40 | gsocbot | carols: "proof" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/proofofenrollment |
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| 20:38.41 | rohit-dua | hi. how do we upload the proposal to melange? What I see is not upload options for proposal. |
| 20:38.56 | carols | rohit-dua: have you created a profile and uploaded your enrollment form? |
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| 20:39.24 | rohit-dua | not the enrollment form part!:-( |
| 20:39.39 | carols | you can't submit your proposal until you do that. |
| 20:41.39 | carols | downey: do you think we're succeeding in our mission? |
| 20:42.14 | downey | carols: well, i haven't seen any problem apps yet :) |
| 20:42.23 | carols | downey: that's something. |
| 20:42.34 | carols | do you usually have a lot of problem apps this early in the process, though? |
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| 20:42.50 | downey | carols: i'd have to look back to previous years. it's still early. |
| 20:42.56 | carols | yeah, it is. |
| 20:43.20 | olly | is fairly sure we're seeing fewer proposals that usual at this point |
| 20:43.26 | downey | too |
| 20:43.35 | carols | well, you guys asked for it :-) |
| 20:43.37 | carols | i delivered |
| 20:43.41 | carols | hopefully it's what you want :-) |
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| 20:44.50 | downey | carols: well if there's one thing for sure, we can't "make" people read the directions ahead of time :) |
| 20:44.58 | carols | that's true. |
| 20:45.07 | carols | and so obviously shown this year. |
| 20:45.18 | catallman | no kidding! |
| 20:45.45 | downey | OTOH, it means more time for tea. |
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| 20:50.43 | matrix_ | Hi everybody, I don't mean to disturb, just a quick question |
| 20:50.51 | carols | matrix_: sure, how can we help? |
| 20:51.02 | downey | Hi, matrix_ :) |
| 20:51.38 | olly | the main issue with the change I've noticed is that some students are waiting to hear, and would very likely be able to prove eligibility by april 21st, but not by march 21st |
| 20:52.03 | olly | but any rule is going to have someone just missing out |
| 20:52.07 | matrix_ | Must a proposed project STRICTLY(emphasis on that) be in accordance with an organization's "product?" |
| 20:52.25 | carols | matrix_: have you asked them? |
| 20:52.42 | matrix_ | I don't know if thats gonna sound rude to them |
| 20:52.57 | olly | matrix_: not really |
| 20:53.03 | matrix_ | so I prefer asking people, so that I don't have to ask them |
| 20:53.07 | carols | matrix_: why would that be rude? either they say "yes' and you apply to a different org or they say "no" and you go on with it |
| 20:53.21 | matrix_ | okay |
| 20:53.25 | carols | matrix_: we prefer you go directly to the org and speak to them. |
| 20:53.27 | olly | it's no ruder than just submitting such a proposal to them |
| 20:53.35 | carols | we want you guys to talk to each other |
| 20:53.36 | matrix_ | ok |
| 20:53.50 | carols | since you're going to be spending three months together, you should make sure you work well together now |
| 20:54.07 | matrix_ | Thank you Olly, you've just answered me |
| 20:54.33 | downey | matrix_: Here's a tip ... my org's mentors generally don't feel as good about proposals from people they haven't already talked with about that proposal (ahead of time). Some organizations may feel differently, but I think most are like us. |
| 20:54.36 | matrix_ | Thanks Carols |
| 20:54.40 | carols | yw matrix_ |
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| 20:55.07 | matrix_ | okay |
| 20:56.56 | downey | matrix_: Good luck! :) |
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| 21:11.53 | downey | 'bye all, enjoy the tea |
| 21:12.03 | carols | nn downey |
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| 21:18.31 | jojva | hi carols, I'm having some problems related to gsoc 2013. A french ATM where I attempted to withdraw money kept the money for some reason, but still charged my card's account. Now apparently to solve the problem the bank requires a proof that I worked for GSOC (in France we use a "Contrat de travail" (Job contract)). How can I prove I actually worked for gsoc ? I have some emails but i don't know if that's enough... |
| 21:19.19 | carols | jojva: you're welcome to request a copy of the CPT form if you'd like. |
| 21:19.54 | jojva | carols, isn't that US only ? |
| 21:20.07 | carols | jojva: no, the program is international and so is the form :-) |
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| 21:22.05 | jojva | carols, Oh I didn't see this line "You can also use this letter for general verification of your participation in the program". Will do thanks :) |
| 21:22.09 | carols | yw |
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| 21:27.46 | Dogedrop | anyone else having problem with uploading file for enrollment form? |
| 21:27.54 | carols | Dogedrop: i haven't heard any |
| 21:27.59 | carols | what's the specific problem? |
| 21:28.05 | dblia | yes i have the same |
| 21:28.14 | carols | can both of you please describe the problem? |
| 21:28.15 | dblia | Service unavaialble |
| 21:28.20 | Dogedrop | right now it will load/connect forever and finally says Service Unavailable |
| 21:28.25 | carols | okay, then please contact #melange |
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| 21:38.16 | clementm | How do you manage conflicts of interest between students and mentors (if a mentor personally knows a student) for the applications? Have you ever had such a problem? |
| 21:38.28 | carols | clementm: can you describe the "conflict" a bit more? |
| 21:38.39 | carols | as in, they're both in the open source community? |
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| 21:39.13 | clementm | if a mentor is the teacher of a student for example |
| 21:39.36 | carols | clementm: and the org admin specifically chose the accept the student and have that person mentor them? |
| 21:39.57 | carols | (in other words, decided that was the person best suited to mentor that student) |
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| 21:41.12 | clementm | well, more in the situation where they don't know about it... |
| 21:41.27 | carols | how would they not know about it? they're the org admin... |
| 21:41.34 | clementm | how can you check that he didn't favor his student? |
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| 21:41.43 | carols | clementm: that's the org admin's job |
| 21:42.07 | clementm | okay :) |
| 21:42.11 | olly | as an org admin, I'd expect my mentors to tell me about things like knowing a particular student |
| 21:43.03 | gevaerts | An org admin should know the mentors |
| 21:44.04 | carols | agreed. if an org admin doesn |
| 21:44.11 | carols | t know his/her mentors something's wrong |
| 21:44.33 | carols | i would hope i didn't select an org to participate in gsoc like that :-) |
| 21:44.38 | olly | it's harder for the large umbrella orgs |
| 21:44.48 | meflin | we are about to hit 100 mentors |
| 21:44.59 | gevaerts | I'd still expect some sort of chain of trust in such cases |
| 21:45.07 | carols | olly: that's true. but even still, you'd expect a certain level of trust in these cases, right? |
| 21:45.12 | carols | what gevaerts said |
| 21:45.19 | olly | carols: definitely |
| 21:45.21 | vedu | yes I would say it is pretty hard. |
| 21:45.24 | terri | yeah, I try to know the mentors a bit, but I do rely heavily on the sub-org admins to know and tell me of any conflicts. |
| 21:45.54 | clementm | and if the situation happens and you know about it, what would you do? would the mentor's opinion still be taken into account? |
| 21:46.00 | terri | We do also require more than one mentor for each student, so it'd have to be a pretty big collusion. |
| 21:46.06 | carols | clementm: why wouldn't they just find another mentor for the student? |
| 21:46.41 | olly | has seen more issues with mentors being biased towards their pet project idea than towards a particular student |
| 21:47.17 | clementm | carols: I guess they could :) |
| 21:47.22 | carols | clementm: indeed :-) |
| 21:47.38 | gevaerts | clementm: if I were the org admin, depending on the situation I'd replace the mentor, add a co-mentor, or just carefully review stuff |
| 21:48.05 | gevaerts | And in case of replacing the mentor, there'd be one less candidate for the mentor summit :) |
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| 21:49.45 | sebifam | i have a question |
| 21:50.09 | carols | sebifam: sure |
| 21:50.12 | carols | how can we help? |
| 21:50.20 | sebifam | why those from binpy answer so late.. |
| 21:50.24 | sebifam | or don't even answer |
| 21:50.42 | carols | sebifam: has it been more than 48 hours since you have heard from them? |
| 21:50.56 | sebifam | I want to apply for that project and they don't even answer to my mail that i sent like 6-7 days ago |
| 21:51.14 | carols | sebifam: i'm happy to speak to them, what's the org? |
| 21:51.34 | sebifam | Let me tell you the exact story. |
| 21:51.38 | carols | no need |
| 21:51.40 | terri | carols: it's python. they're a new sub-org this year. I can speak to them. |
| 21:51.40 | meflin | python |
| 21:51.47 | carols | thanks terri |
| 21:51.54 | carols | sebifam: please speak to terri offline |
| 21:52.00 | terri | sebifam: Can you forward me the email you sent? terri.oda@gmail.com. |
| 21:52.25 | sebifam | oke |
| 21:52.28 | sebifam | i will forward |
| 21:52.31 | terri | thanks! |
| 21:53.15 | sebifam | Terri:)) |
| 21:53.16 | sebifam | ? |
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| 21:54.35 | vichugunov | Hello everyone:-) |
| 21:54.40 | carols | hi vichugunov |
| 21:57.19 | vichugunov | Where can I find enrollment form to apply for? |
| 21:57.42 | carols | vichugunov: have you read the instructions on enrollment forms? |
| 21:58.19 | vichugunov | Now I am surfing FAQ |
| 21:58.23 | carols | cool |
| 21:58.28 | carols | it's on there in about 5 different places |
| 21:58.30 | carols | so that should help |
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| 22:02.38 | carols | actually, it's linked in the FAQs 6 times. i just checked. |
| 22:03.06 | jojva | carols, wow that was fast ! :D |
| 22:03.18 | carols | turns out cut and paste is not that hard :-) |
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| 22:03.53 | jojva | I'll use this occasion to thank you a lot for this gsoc opportunity, it's been a great pleasure :) |
| 22:04.05 | carols | you're quite welcome |
| 22:04.12 | carols | do cool things in the world, that will be thanks enough for me. |
| 22:04.14 | vichugunov | I have not long ago found this actually and not have found all answers. Thank you:-) |
| 22:04.22 | carols | vichugunov: you're welcome |
| 22:04.27 | carols | i'm glad to hear it |
| 22:04.36 | vichugunov | I have been using opencv for about 3 years and it's really cool |
| 22:05.20 | vichugunov | And it's very interesting to make this project even better. It's really astonishing and awesome opportunity for everyone, who use it. |
| 22:05.26 | jojva | carols, I won't stop the wars but I'll try to provide FOSS patches |
| 22:05.30 | vichugunov | Thank you too, very cool idea |
| 22:05.34 | carols | jojva: that works for me. |
| 22:05.40 | carols | i can't stop wars either. |
| 22:05.45 | carols | much as it saddens me to say that. |
| 22:07.59 | jojva | Well Google plans to send balloons in Africa right? That's already a brilliant decision ^^ |
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| 22:09.28 | carols | jojva: i honestly have no idea :-) |
| 22:09.36 | carols | i purposefully work on the stuff that's all public |
| 22:09.47 | carols | so i don't have to remember what stuff we've announced and what we haven't |
| 22:09.51 | carols | nothing i do is scret |
| 22:09.53 | carols | secret |
| 22:10.20 | jojva | carols, haha it's been out for a long time www.google.com/loon/ |
| 22:10.24 | carols | cool :-) |
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| 22:16.54 | downey | Loon++ |
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| 22:18.29 | downey | Now if we could just convince them to go open source ;-) |
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| 22:20.44 | catallman | we had a Loon ballon on the MV Google campus when it was announced. They're HUGE :) And very pretty. |
| 22:20.59 | downey | has wondered more than once about the lawfulness of launching a balloon at the mentor summit with an amateur radio based tracking beacon |
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| 22:21.11 | downey | catallman: How big about? |
| 22:21.46 | catallman | It filled most of the lawn by the TRex. |
| 22:22.05 | downey | catallman: nice. |
| 22:22.45 | downey | Funny to think that most of its bandwidth would be used by YouTube kitten videos |
| 22:22.48 | catallman | As for launching anything; the offices are in the flight paths of 6 airports, including NASA, so that would be a "no." |
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| 22:23.00 | catallman | People have asked me before :) |
| 22:23.01 | downey | FAA-- |
| 22:23.21 | catallman | — has no sense of humor… |
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| 22:23.31 | downey | I'm all licensed with the FCC but have no sway with the other F agency |
| 22:23.44 | Guest38811 | anyone for the sage notebook project? |
| 22:23.46 | downey | Now, a hotel in San Jose OTOH |
| 22:23.58 | downey | !anyone | Guest38811 |
| 22:23.58 | gsocbot | Guest38811: "anyone" is Instead of looking for mentors from specific projects here, you will likely get much better results by speaking to that mentoring organization directly. You can find an org's contact information via the org list at http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 |
| 22:24.10 | downey | Guest38811: but you never know ;) |
| 22:26.27 | Guest38811 | i needed help with the commands to set up notebook with all published worksheets, can anyone help? |
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| 22:26.39 | carols | Guest38811: yeah, the people that can help are the Sage folks. |
| 22:27.10 | olly | ... who are unlikely to be found here |
| 22:27.22 | downey | Or maybe your favorite search engine. :-) |
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| 22:29.22 | digitalcircuit | DuckDuckGo, right? ;-) |
| 22:29.30 | carols | digitalcircuit: hm? |
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| 22:29.36 | downey | Never heard I' it. |
| 22:29.40 | downey | Of. |
| 22:29.42 | downey | :) |
| 22:30.45 | digitalcircuit | downey, I think Google referred to them as a potential competitor a while back in an anti-trust case; it's an alternative search engine, that's all http://ddg.gg/ |
| 22:31.00 | umccullough | we know, he was being facetious |
| 22:31.11 | carols | hey guys, this is getting a bit off topic for #gsoc. want to take it to a PM? |
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| 22:32.36 | digitalcircuit | duly noted, and no harm meant |
| 22:32.40 | carols | cheers |
| 22:32.42 | carols | have some tea. |
| 22:32.45 | carols | serves some tea |
| 22:33.26 | meflin | summit idea how to brew tea session |
| 22:33.42 | meflin | might need the BIG room for that tho ;) |
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| 22:35.50 | umccullough | sounds like an MDO project idea |
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| 22:36.44 | downey | Heh |
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| 22:56.00 | downey | Do the summit baristas make tea? |
| 22:56.28 | carols | downey: i don't believe so, and that's because the cafe offers tea and coffee |
| 22:56.38 | meflin | I bring my own tea :) |
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| 22:58.44 | downey | meflin: Will +1 your tea session on Moderator when I see it. |
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| 23:07.32 | downey | Happy to see an uptick in potential applicants from around Africa this year. Hope it's indicative of a larger trend! |
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| 23:08.50 | catallman | That's great news! |
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| 23:12.40 | KolibriOS|yogev | I wonder if this year there are less applications coming because of upfront enrollment letter request? |
| 23:13.28 | KolibriOS|yogev | Was just wondering how many apps the other small orgs have got so far. |
| 23:13.49 | edsiper | KolibriOS|yogev, we have 9 now |
| 23:14.06 | KolibriOS|yogev | edsiper: Nice! We only got 2 so far :-( |
| 23:14.31 | Stepik77 | Yeah, I was just going to send my proposal, but it requires enrollment form and I don't have right know anything to send. |
| 23:14.35 | edsiper | we put a "round 1" review for feedback for proposals submitted as of today |
| 23:14.49 | edsiper | most of them arrived today |
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| 23:15.18 | KolibriOS|yogev | edsiper: Also did you receive new proposals notification by e-mail already? Was it fixed? |
| 23:15.40 | edsiper | KolibriOS|yogev, as far as i remember yes, i got some emails, but for recent ones |
| 23:16.00 | KolibriOS|yogev | edsiper: Yes, sure, I don't care about backdated e-mails, just recent ones :-) |
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| 23:20.22 | catallman | ttfn all. |
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| 23:29.43 | TCD | I don't know if this is a general thing or not, but when writing my proposal's timeline..I can't seem to fill it. D: |
| 23:30.18 | olly | TCD: question if your timings are realistic - if they are, expand the project scope |
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| 23:30.45 | gevaerts | Of course, if you're anything like me, multiply all estimates by four :) |
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| 23:31.18 | olly | had a boss who's time estimation technique was "guess how long it'll take, multiply by 3 and shift to the next units up" |
| 23:31.20 | TCD | I think the fact I've never worked on anything of a similar scale before means I've got nothing to base these estimates off, and I'd rather not appear as 'Weeks 3-8: Write 15 lines of code' |
| 23:31.34 | olly | so a 5 minute jobs => 15 hours, a 1 day job => 3 weeks |
| 23:31.34 | TCD | really long lines excluded. :p |
| 23:31.44 | meflin | lines of code are the easy part |
| 23:32.07 | meflin | knowing what lines to write and debugging ... now that is hard |
| 23:32.09 | TCD | It was the simple way of saying that I don't want to appear to be giving something simple a huge timeframe |
| 23:32.15 | olly | keep breaking it down until you're at a point where you can imagine doing it |
| 23:32.45 | gevaerts | TCD: try thinking of people who might know the code and the problem space, and ask them for their opinion :) |
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| 23:33.07 | gevaerts | If you can think of anyone like that, anyway |
| 23:33.27 | TCD | gevaerts: Yeah, I was going to send my draft to the mailing list with 'halp, wat do' :p |
| 23:33.52 | olly | pretty much everyone finds the timeline hard |
| 23:34.31 | olly | by far the most common comment I have to make on proposals is that the timeline is too sketchy or the blocks of time are too large |
| 23:34.35 | olly | or that there isn't a timeline |
| 23:34.45 | gevaerts | For me it's easy. If I can imagine how to do something, it's a few hours. If I can't, it's a few weeks. Guess how good my timelines are :) |
| 23:35.27 | terri | timelines are hard for software people. there's whole books about how we suck at understanding how long things take, i gather. :) |
| 23:35.38 | dfighter | indeed there are lol |
| 23:35.57 | TCD | heh |
| 23:35.59 | gevaerts | "I know how to tighten a bolt. That means building a replica of the Eiffel Tower should take an afternoon" |
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| 23:36.52 | gevaerts | Still, that doesn't mean I'm not very critical about students' timelines :) |
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| 23:37.44 | dfighter | there's a quite vulgar saying about that kind of behavior here in Hungary :P |
| 23:37.50 | dfighter | obviously I won't translate and post it here |
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| 23:37.53 | TCD | I mean, I've identified 3 main areas I'd cover..and I've got them all down in 6 weeks :P |
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| 23:39.01 | gevaerts | TCD: my bet is that you didn't include enough time for testing and debugging |
| 23:39.06 | meflin | I have a doubt that will happen :D |
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| 23:39.18 | meflin | also documentation and unexpected roadblocks |
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| 23:39.22 | terri | Also include some time for upstream patch review and integration |
| 23:39.34 | TCD | I put a week at the end for documentation and included testing within the things :P |
| 23:39.39 | olly | and fixing patches to actually conform to coding conventions |
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| 23:39.47 | TCD | but yeah, I think I'll just ask for feedback as is and they'll know :) |
| 23:39.50 | olly | don't do documentation at the end |
| 23:39.54 | gevaerts | And time spent on flamewars |
| 23:40.01 | olly | the project will overrun by a week and end up undocumented |
| 23:40.03 | meflin | dont forget tea time |
| 23:40.12 | olly | and a solid week writing docs isn't fun for most people |
| 23:40.13 | TCD | meflin: It's not #mdo :p |
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| 23:40.35 | meflin | one does not 16 hours strait and produce good code |
| 23:40.47 | gevaerts | TCD: right, so you got testing. How about debugging? :) |
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| 23:41.06 | TCD | gevaerts: Doesn't that fall under testing? You test, and the test fails, so you debug? :P |
| 23:41.14 | gevaerts | No :) |
| 23:41.42 | gevaerts | Of course, there's the old problem of not being able to debug your own code |
| 23:42.02 | gevaerts | "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan |
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| 23:53.45 | bePolite | Please how do I submit a GSOC proposal? |
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| 23:57.22 | downey | !faq | bePolite |
| 23:57.23 | gsocbot | bePolite: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
| 23:57.33 | downey | bePolite: See above link :-) |
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