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| 02:00.24 | sleepyhead | !logs |
| 02:00.25 | gsocbot | sleepyhead: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 06:14.54 | Palash | Good Morning Everyone :) |
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| 07:03.17 | viraj | Hello |
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| 07:05.48 | viraj | Hello |
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| 07:09.42 | perepujal | viraj: Hi, just ask, if somebody knows and is available he/she will reply, make sure you have read the FAQs |
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| 07:27.06 | garvit | For FAQ's visit :: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
| 07:27.41 | garvit | Answers to all general questions |
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| 12:14.54 | darnir | It's really quiet here. Surprising given how close the application period is. |
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| 12:17.04 | pengliqun | !logs |
| 12:17.04 | gsocbot | pengliqun: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 12:17.25 | olly | darnir: i suspect most students are busy talking to orgs rather than in here |
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| 12:19.29 | PlkMdy | well, our org hasn't seen much students yet... |
| 12:19.51 | PlkMdy | and they all want to apply for the same idea, which isn't going to work very well :/ |
| 12:20.08 | olly | PlkMdy: is it by any chance the first idea on your list? |
| 12:20.15 | PlkMdy | no |
| 12:20.22 | PlkMdy | it's the one that looks easy |
| 12:20.34 | olly | aha |
| 12:20.47 | olly | i've heard several orgs notice the top idea tends to get more attention |
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| 12:22.06 | teepee_ | hmm, so is there a github wiki plugin to randomize the sections on a page? ;) |
| 12:22.30 | bitgeeky | hey PlkMdy , which org are you talking about ? |
| 12:22.36 | PlkMdy | Haiku |
| 12:22.54 | kblin | PlkMdy: yeah, I'm always with mixed feelings about adding "difficulty: easy" tasks to our ideas list |
| 12:23.01 | bitgeeky | PlkMdy, : ok will have a look at the ideas , thanks :-) |
| 12:23.11 | PlkMdy | we didn't even do that - and the task isn't actually easier, I think |
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| 12:23.34 | olly | teepee_: "Dear sir, i am interested in the first idea on your ideas page" |
| 12:23.38 | kblin | the feedback from the rejected org meeting is that the ideas list should have a variety of difficulty levels |
| 12:23.48 | olly | kblin: yeah, i saw that |
| 12:23.51 | PlkMdy | some of our tasks involve kernel-side work, which I guess make people run away - this one is creating a GUI application |
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| 12:24.18 | olly | kind of hard to think of easy ideas for some projects |
| 12:24.22 | PlkMdy | which may be easier to code, but we expect the student to also design the UI and plan for some functionalities - which needs a lot of work on its own and is easy to underestimate |
| 12:24.27 | olly | i gues it can just be relative to the page |
| 12:24.32 | kblin | but having a few "easy" tasks on the list means that all the applications you get are for that easy task |
| 12:24.42 | kblin | and usually those applications aren't any good |
| 12:24.46 | teepee_ | olly: that would be https://github.com/openscad/openscad/wiki/Ideas:-GSoC-2014#wiki-issue-handling right now |
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| 12:25.13 | PlkMdy | instead of easy/hard, we went with some "big" tasks |
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| 12:25.23 | PlkMdy | which we allow the students to split if they think they can't do it all |
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| 12:25.56 | PlkMdy | for example, we have tasks about adding support for new file systems, the big version is read/write, but read-only is acceptable |
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| 12:27.08 | olly | kblin: it looks like (as last time we took part) we're going to get most applications for the project ideas which overlap more with the stuff students will have seen in courses |
| 12:27.28 | olly | which aren't the easiest rated ones |
| 12:27.34 | kblin | olly: ok, that I would expect |
| 12:27.48 | kblin | people look at the list and say "oh, I can see how to do that" |
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| 12:27.52 | olly | yeah |
| 12:28.18 | olly | and perhaps also "oh yes, I thought that was interesting" |
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| 12:29.53 | olly | PlkMdy: just did a quick count and we've had contact from maybe 25 students so far |
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| 12:30.56 | choupy | what org do you represent olly? |
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| 12:31.11 | PlkMdy | we had something like 5 so far :/ |
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| 12:31.26 | olly | choupy: xapian |
| 12:31.41 | olly | PlkMdy: perhaps I should start redirecting some |
| 12:32.17 | PlkMdy | mh... does orgs at the start and end of the list get more applications ? :à) |
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| 12:32.28 | olly | i bet the ones at the start do |
| 12:32.29 | PlkMdy | renames to Zaiku |
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| 12:32.44 | olly | but I doubt they get a lot more good applications |
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| 12:33.31 | PlkMdy | well, I guess we're also not very well known yet, require C++ which is not the most common language, and maybe have a lot of ideas that require diving into kernel and OS stuff |
| 12:33.57 | gevaerts | thinks kernel-side is probably easier than GUI |
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| 12:34.12 | choupy | the filesystem stuff you propose is quite wide PlkMdy, that's pretty cool |
| 12:34.31 | choupy | is this where you got all the propositions? |
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| 12:35.38 | PlkMdy | choupy: no, the one that attracts everyone is "calendar application" |
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| 12:36.21 | choupy | oh, I see |
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| 12:39.38 | gevaerts | PlkMdy: if you add "proper caldav support" to that idea, I might be tempted to switch to Haiku :) |
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| 12:40.37 | PlkMdy | as stated at the top of the page, the ideas are not complete. We expect students to build their proposals by planning some features |
| 12:40.42 | gevaerts | doesn't think a calendar application really counts as "easy" |
| 12:40.58 | PlkMdy | so yes, I think this should include caldav support, and I'll tell the students if they ask me |
| 12:41.07 | gevaerts | There are a lot of headaches involved |
| 12:41.08 | darnir | Though it does sound easy. Especially to those new |
| 12:41.09 | Niharika | wonders where PlkMdy lost his vowels. |
| 12:41.30 | PulkoMandy | here they are :) |
| 12:41.34 | gevaerts | resists the horrible tasteless jokes |
| 12:41.40 | Niharika | :P |
| 12:41.51 | Niharika | goes back into hiding |
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| 12:43.00 | kblin | gevaerts: you're using "proper" and "caldav" in the same sentence |
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| 12:43.04 | darnir | Although yes, I'm wondering where the students are. Very few have connected with us too. |
| 12:43.38 | gevaerts | kblin: yes, I know it's a contradiction. This is why calendar stuff is hard :) |
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| 12:44.33 | PulkoMandy | well, in our case, using an existing library for that would be ok |
| 12:44.38 | PulkoMandy | (if there is such a thing) |
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| 12:47.08 | olly | darnir: i wouldn't worry too much - it's bound to get busier when applications open |
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| 12:47.55 | darnir | olly: I sure do hope so. |
| 12:48.15 | olly | maybe see if there's any tags you could usefully add to help students know you have projects covering X |
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| 12:48.45 | sumanah | darnir: it might be worth sending a flush-the-lurkers-out msg |
| 12:48.54 | gevaerts | does indeed see some stuff on the haiku list that makes him think "hard" "_ |
| 12:48.57 | gevaerts | :) |
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| 12:50.13 | darnir | sumanah: And what is that? |
| 12:50.24 | sumanah | darnir: or have a thing like https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2014#Who_is_interested or http://openhatch.org/projects/MediaWiki |
| 12:50.42 | sumanah | darnir: first, quickly -- do you know what "lurker" means? |
| 12:50.46 | sumanah | in online communities |
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| 12:51.45 | darnir | sumanah: Yes. I do know that. I just don't get the essence of a "flush-the-lurkers-out" message |
| 12:51.50 | sumanah | darnir: ah ok |
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| 12:52.30 | sumanah | darnir: The idea is that you send a note to the mailing list saying "By the way, if you are on this list but you never post, it would be nice if you introduce yourself and say hi" and give a sample introduction |
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| 12:53.03 | sumanah | So that lurkers (such as potential new contributors and internship applicants) have a template for bringing themselves out into the open |
| 12:53.13 | sumanah | so you know who they are :) |
| 12:53.23 | darnir | Sounds like a nice idea! I'll try that soon. |
| 12:53.30 | sumanah | :) |
| 12:53.52 | darnir | Till now, we've only relied on those who contact us directly either on IRC or mailing lists. POint is, both are quite dead. |
| 12:53.54 | perfectmak | Hello, My name is Perfect. I just joined this channel |
| 12:54.00 | sumanah | hi perfectmak! |
| 12:54.00 | darnir | Hello perfectmak |
| 12:54.17 | perfectmak | hi :D |
| 12:54.17 | Niharika | Hello perfectmak! |
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| 12:54.30 | Niharika | I thought nobody was perfect. :P I stand corrected. |
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| 12:55.27 | sumanah | darnir: if you look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2014#Who_is_interested or http://openhatch.org/projects/MediaWiki you see that those pages offer easy ways for people to signal their interest (again, templated so people don't have to make up what they say from scratch) so that the org admin can find them and talk with them |
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| 12:56.19 | sumanah | darnir: http://dw-dev-training.dreamwidth.org/ is an interesting case as well -- for instance look at the "question thread" http://dw-dev-training.dreamwidth.org/56552.html |
| 12:56.38 | darnir | sumanah: That is a nice idea. And I might just copy that. I'm not the org admin, but I'll implement this for my projects. |
| 12:56.58 | sumanah | :) |
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| 12:57.34 | sumanah | perfectmak: how is your open source career going today? :) |
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| 12:58.29 | perfectmak | sumanah: I'm a newbie to open source |
| 12:58.33 | darnir | Honestly speaking. I liked mediawiki's template the best. (It was the most aesthetic) |
| 12:58.37 | perfectmak | So, it is starting well |
| 12:59.04 | sumanah | darnir: so, I think about this sort of thing as a funnel or a pipeline. There's the step of getting people to hear about your project, and then the step of getting them interested in using the project, and then contributing, and then the successive steps of helping interested people learn enough to actually contribute in some way, etc. |
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| 12:59.43 | sumanah | perfectmak: great! you have already accomplished the first few steps by learning about open source and by coming here :) what open source tools/applications/languages do you enjoy? |
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| 13:00.45 | sumanah | darnir: the stuff I have been talking about -- facilitating discovery of interested newbies -- helps around, like, step 3. There are also things you can do to help with step 1 and step 2 |
| 13:01.21 | sumanah | You're working on wget, correct? |
| 13:01.25 | darnir | realizes he is really new to this stuff. |
| 13:01.32 | sumanah | (we all were once!) |
| 13:01.34 | darnir | sumanah: Yes. |
| 13:02.05 | darnir | And I think we also need someone willing to spend time to fix the wiki and related pages. They are a horrible mess. (Wget's wiki that is) |
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| 13:02.48 | sumanah | darnir: so, you could look through the list of who has already contributed in the past in ANY way to wget -- bug reports, wiki fixes, mailing list posts, etc. -- and send them a note reminding them that wget is in GSoC and they're welcome to apply if they are eligible |
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| 13:03.37 | darnir | That sounds like a decent idea. Except I'll have to find a way to scrape all those email addresses. |
| 13:03.41 | perfectmak | sumanah: I enjoy coding in c++, tools I prefer use are qt creator, codeblocks and netbeans |
| 13:04.11 | sumanah | (I find many people assume GSoC is just for people pursuing bachelor's degrees; it's useful to remind them that people working towards associate's, master's, and doctoral degrees are eligible as well) |
| 13:04.21 | darnir | perfectmak: You're in luck! There's loads of organizations here that use C++. |
| 13:04.53 | sumanah | perfectmak: :) yeah! And KDE is in http://dot.kde.org/2014/02/25/kde-and-google-summer-code-2014 and they use Qt, right? |
| 13:05.06 | novochen | hi everyone, I'm new here. |
| 13:05.15 | novochen | I have this problem |
| 13:05.18 | sumanah | darnir: if there's a web archive of the mailing list you could use Beautiful Soup? http://www.crummy.com/software/BeautifulSoup/ |
| 13:05.21 | heller | indeed, C++ is quite popular nowadays |
| 13:05.23 | sumanah | hi novochen - tell us |
| 13:05.38 | novochen | why should student applicant get in touch with orgs before the application start? |
| 13:05.53 | novochen | i mean, what to talk about with the orgs? |
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| 13:06.03 | PulkoMandy | you will have to write a proposal from one of their ideas |
| 13:06.10 | sumanah | novochen: It sounds like you have more of a question than a problem. :) http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch008_writing-a-proposal/ |
| 13:06.12 | heller | novochen: your proposal maybe? |
| 13:06.15 | darnir | sumanah: Indeed I could. And BeautifulSoup is also a beautiful library! I have used it in the past. Really elegant stuff |
| 13:06.18 | PulkoMandy | and the best way to do that, is to ask them what you should write in it |
| 13:06.21 | sumanah | darnir: my spouse wrote it :) |
| 13:06.23 | novochen | sorry about my poor english |
| 13:06.34 | sumanah | novochen: it's better than some people's :) |
| 13:06.48 | novochen | sumanah: thanks |
| 13:06.52 | heller | novochen: consider a project will receive tons of applications, which applicant do you think they'll pick? Some unknown stranger or somehow they know from somewhere? |
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| 13:07.14 | novochen | heller: yes, I've thought about that |
| 13:07.25 | darnir | sumanah: Really!!? I found out about it through StackOverflow and I've been recommending it to everyone since then. |
| 13:07.26 | perfectmak | sumanah: Yes, they use Qt... And they are also one of my interests, because i'm a sucker for cross platform tools and development |
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| 13:07.39 | sumanah | novochen: PulkoMandy is mostly right. :) There are some organizations that are fine with you coming up with your own idea instead of using one of theirs. But regardless, the people who have spent their time developing and thinking about their project will have feedback that you can use to improve your proposal |
| 13:07.47 | sumanah | darnir: :D |
| 13:08.22 | PulkoMandy | sumanah: even if you use one of the ideas from the project, copying it into your proposal is not going to work - you still need to write your own proposal |
| 13:08.31 | PulkoMandy | well, at least that's what we expect here :) |
| 13:08.32 | sumanah | PulkoMandy: indeed. Absolutely. |
| 13:08.35 | novochen | PulkoMandy: I can't directly use the ideas from the org? |
| 13:08.41 | darnir | PulkoMandy: Precisely. |
| 13:09.10 | heller | novochen: of course you can, but they only sketch a full proposal |
| 13:09.19 | sumanah | novochen: I understand that, in the past, maybe you wrote a lot of papers for school where getting help was bad, or you could only submit one final draft. Here getting help is good. :) And you can submit many many drafts and benefit from the criticism and suggestions you get. |
| 13:09.27 | darnir | The ideas mentioned on the web are usually very abstract. They are just it, "ideas". We expect the students to come up with something more complete when submitting the proposals. |
| 13:09.31 | sumanah | novochen: Here is a sample application. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Jarry1250/GSoC_2012_application |
| 13:09.37 | Kurus22 | what happen when a student selected for multiple project?? |
| 13:09.39 | heller | novochen: we for example only sketch a proposal and require the students to think about the idea and present a nice and full blown proposal |
| 13:09.49 | sumanah | novochen: Can you now see the difference between the "idea" and a proposal? |
| 13:09.55 | PulkoMandy | Kurus22: there is an IRC meeting to decinde which one he keeps |
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| 13:10.06 | novochen | sumanah: thanks, I'll take a look at that |
| 13:10.09 | PulkoMandy | the orgs make the final decision, but usually they'll ask the student what he prefers |
| 13:10.34 | darnir | sumanah: That's an impressive application! Very thorough and precise. |
| 13:11.08 | sumanah | darnir: It is. That student did get accepted. |
| 13:11.14 | yatharth01 | Hey! how do orgs select a single proposal from multiple of them coming for same project!?? |
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| 13:11.46 | sumanah | yatharth01: I am a mentor/org admin. We try to discourage students from competing on a single idea. But if they do, we pick the better student and the better proposal. |
| 13:12.07 | sumanah | See this post, for instance, yatharth01 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-March/074889.html |
| 13:12.30 | novochen | heller: so in a word, I shall send a well-writtin proposal(even if it is listed on the idea list) to the org asap? |
| 13:12.54 | sumanah | yatharth01: if you and another student are interested in the same topic, I suggest that you TALK with the other student, talk with the mentor, and figure out which student has done more preparation and is more interested in that idea. The student with less preparation and interest should choose a different topic. |
| 13:12.59 | PulkoMandy | novochen: yes, they can review it and tell you how to make it even better |
| 13:13.05 | sumanah | agrees with PulkoMandy |
| 13:13.31 | heller | novochen: no, the application period starts on march 10th, but you should start to discuss the idea you wanna take on ASAP |
| 13:13.38 | sumanah | novochen: it's a good idea to read this guide http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 13:13.54 | PulkoMandy | heller: you can still send you application on an org mailing list for review |
| 13:14.02 | heller | novochen: of course, you can even send them a full blown proposal now |
| 13:14.07 | heller | PulkoMandy: sure |
| 13:14.17 | sumanah | novochen: there's a page called "Making first contact" http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch006_making-first-contact/ that might help you |
| 13:14.26 | novochen | heller: thanks, got it |
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| 13:14.55 | novochen | sumanah: that's gonna be very helpful, thanks verymuch |
| 13:15.20 | sumanah | novochen: :D I also wrote a post http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2014/02/26/0 with some help for new open source people - check it out |
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| 13:15.51 | kblin | sumanah: you were looking for me yesterday? |
| 13:15.58 | novochen | sumanah: actually i have been using github for almost 2 years, but only coding for myself :p |
| 13:15.59 | sumanah | kblin: yeah, just wanted to ask how that situation went that we talked about. |
| 13:16.13 | sumanah | novochen: you're ahead of a lot of people who have never used Git :) |
| 13:16.21 | sumanah | welcome to collaboration! |
| 13:16.28 | novochen | ;D |
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| 13:17.32 | kblin | sumanah: just the usual hassle when dealing with publishers, I guess |
| 13:18.02 | kblin | sumanah: impossible deadlines, more requests than agreed for... |
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| 13:18.36 | sumanah | novochen: and like I said, your English is better than a lot of English I've seen. However it's still a good idea to use a spell-checker (like the one built into LibreOffice or a lot of email clients) before you send an email to a public mailing list -- for EVERYONE, not just people who have trouble with English. Just a tip |
| 13:18.37 | kblin | which reminds me, I should probably stop ignoring their request for a bio |
| 13:18.44 | sumanah | kblin: got it |
| 13:19.03 | novochen | sumanah: yes i will, thanks |
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| 13:19.11 | gevaerts | never uses a spell-checker :) |
| 13:19.28 | kblin | novochen: every project has at least two developers. you, and you six months from now |
| 13:19.41 | gevaerts | This means that sometimes the wrong thing is turned into a frog of course, but I can live with that |
| 13:19.44 | sumanah | kblin: :) oh I love that saying, I should use it more |
| 13:19.46 | novochen | kblin: haha |
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| 13:20.49 | gevaerts | That's fine. It's only when the third developer shows up (you six months ago) that you have to start dealing with idiots |
| 13:20.53 | novochen | i've joined the #buildbot channel for 3 days, almost no one ever spoke |
| 13:21.08 | sumanah | darnir: one more thing, about "step 1" (getting people to *know about wget in the first place*) -- if you wanted to be really provocative you could make a web video pointing out that wget is the choice of Swartz & Snowden |
| 13:21.22 | kblin | I guess IRC isn't their main avenue of communication then? |
| 13:21.25 | PulkoMandy | novochen: not all projects use IRC the same way - maybe they prefer you to use the mailing list or something else? |
| 13:21.36 | sumanah | novochen: different projects have different rhythms, including at different times of day and days of the week |
| 13:22.00 | darnir | sumanah: :D True. We actually had a couple of feature requests based on such ideas after the story broke out. |
| 13:22.41 | novochen | yes, of course. I'll try to use the mailing list later. (I find many mailing list annoying...) |
| 13:22.42 | darnir | Some people wanted Wget to be more *hacker friendly*. |
| 13:22.44 | gevaerts | darnir: is wget the one that's better than curl because you type it using only the left hand? :) |
| 13:23.12 | darnir | gevaerts: Yes. And also because you don't need extra options to download a single file. |
| 13:23.15 | sumanah | novochen: you might want to try a different interface, e.g., nabble, to make mailing lists less annoying to you |
| 13:23.27 | gevaerts | darnir: that one is minor! |
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| 13:23.40 | novochen | sumanah: thanks, i'll google that later |
| 13:23.42 | gevaerts | darnir: also, with wget I need an extra option for standard output! |
| 13:23.47 | sumanah | gevaerts: cool it? |
| 13:24.12 | gevaerts | sumanah: ? |
| 13:24.14 | darnir | gevaerts: Really? What do you mean? |
| 13:24.42 | sumanah | (we can concentrate on more GSoC-y things in here and not which-is-better) |
| 13:24.44 | gevaerts | darnir: I actually quite often don't want the output in a file |
| 13:25.22 | darnir | gevaerts: Aah! True. Then you need extra options. |
| 13:25.31 | darnir | probably agrees with sumanah |
| 13:25.34 | gevaerts | will now drop the subject :) |
| 13:25.38 | sumanah | thx :) |
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| 13:26.11 | darnir | thinks sumanah is taking up carols' role in her absence. |
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| 13:26.38 | sumanah | perfectmak: do you need any help, any questions answered today? |
| 13:26.44 | sumanah | darnir: thank you for the compliment :) |
| 13:28.04 | yatharth01 | sumanah: but what if the students come from different places and don't know each other!!? |
| 13:28.05 | perfectmak | sumanah: I don't have any questions now, the discussion so far has been helpful. Thanks |
| 13:28.23 | sumanah | yatharth01: Then you can talk over the internet, such as in IRC and by email. |
| 13:28.54 | sumanah | yatharth01: you see, I am presuming that the students have both publicly talked about their proposals, probably on the project's mailing list |
| 13:29.01 | yatharth01 | sumanah: how would I know who's applying for the same project?! |
| 13:29.24 | sumanah | yatharth01: Check out http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/ for an example -- my project's mailing list. You see that students have been talking on that mailing list about their proposals |
| 13:29.44 | sumanah | yatharth01: So that's how you would know who else is interested in the same project, and in the same topic/idea as you. |
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| 13:31.30 | yatharth01 | sumanah: you are mentoring which org? |
| 13:31.42 | PulkoMandy | yatharth01: also, if there is a conflict, the org will probably tell you |
| 13:32.00 | sumanah | yatharth01: I have, in the past, been an org admin and a mentor for Wikimedia Foundation, the project that includes MediaWiki . See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2014 |
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| 13:32.39 | sumanah | yatharth01: Which open source projects are you interested in? |
| 13:34.07 | yatharth01 | sumanah: melange for sure and confused between wordpress & mozilla |
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| 13:34.44 | sumanah | yatharth01: it's good that you have some clear interest in a few projects :) (sometimes it is hard to narrow down!) |
| 13:35.14 | novochen | i'm only interested in orgs that use python ;p |
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| 13:35.52 | darnir | jumps at the mention of python |
| 13:35.56 | sumanah | novochen: Python is a fun language. :) for next year maybe you can expand your horizons |
| 13:36.23 | darnir | novochen: We're looking for some Python programmers. |
| 13:36.28 | novochen | sumanah: yes, looking forward to that |
| 13:36.36 | ThomasWaldmann | python++ |
| 13:36.50 | darnir | sumanah: Python can be used for other things apart from fun and hobbies. |
| 13:36.56 | sumanah | I am aware! |
| 13:37.04 | novochen | darnir: what org are you in, if i may ask |
| 13:37.04 | Guest22344 | any body looking for java programmers ? |
| 13:37.17 | yatharth01 | sumanah: thnks. how probable are my chances to get selected? |
| 13:37.19 | sumanah | My spouse has in the past been a fulltime Python programmer! etcetc |
| 13:37.26 | darnir | novochen: I'm working with GNU Wget. |
| 13:37.30 | sumanah | yatharth01: Right now, I don't have enough data to tell you. |
| 13:37.52 | darnir | sumanah: Yes. The author of BeautifulSoup. :D |
| 13:38.00 | sumanah | yatharth01: Do you have a page somewhere publicly visible about one of your proposals? |
| 13:38.02 | novochen | darnir: i'll check that out, thanks |
| 13:38.11 | sumanah | Guest22344: you can find out by looking at the list of accepted orgs and searching for "java" |
| 13:38.27 | novochen | really? i've been using BeautifulSoup for a while |
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| 13:38.42 | sumanah | Guest22344: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 - put "java" in the Tags field |
| 13:38.44 | novochen | (however i switched to pyquery later..) |
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| 13:39.42 | sumanah | novochen: yes! My spouse Leonard wrote Beautiful Soup. :) I shall have to check out PyQuery. |
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| 13:40.07 | yatharth01 | sumanah: i havn't constructed my proposal yet! was jus asking to ask..like how tough is it to get into? |
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| 13:40.58 | novochen | sumanah: beautiful soup is great, i switched to pyquery only because it's more like jquery, which i've used a lot |
| 13:40.59 | sumanah | yatharth01: That I don't know. Perhaps you could look at their blog posts from last year to see how many applicants they had and how many participants they accepted. |
| 13:42.13 | sumanah | For your information, I told my spouse that people were saying "your spouse wrote Beautiful Soup!" and he did a little dance and said "you can tell them I'm doing the Beautiful Soup dance right now" |
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| 13:42.25 | novochen | lol |
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| 13:43.28 | darnir | :P |
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| 13:44.19 | PulkoMandy | sumanah: I think there is a gsocbot command for that, but I forgot which one (student count stats) |
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| 13:45.51 | novochen | darnir: you need python programmers for 'Python3 based FTP Server for Test Suite'? |
| 13:46.15 | sumanah | !stats |
| 13:46.16 | gsocbot | sumanah: I have 2 registered users with 2 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins. |
| 13:46.38 | novochen | darnir: I did a python2 FTP server for an assignment, and it was a mess... Too hard working with sockets. |
| 13:46.42 | sumanah | !numbers |
| 13:46.46 | sumanah | !accepted |
| 13:46.51 | sumanah | !lastyear |
| 13:47.00 | sumanah | !count |
| 13:47.03 | sumanah | !# |
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| 13:47.18 | Niharika | !numapps |
| 13:47.18 | gsocbot | Niharika: "numapps" is In 2014, 190 of 371 mentoring orgs were accepted. 2013: 117/417 orgs; 4144 students submitted 5999 proposals, of which 1192 were accepted. 2012: 180/406 orgs; 1212/6685 proposals (by 4258 students). 2011: 175/417 orgs; 1116/5474 proposals (by 3731 students). 2010: 151/367 orgs; 1026/5539 proposals (by 3464 students) |
| 13:47.24 | sumanah | AHA. thank you Niharika |
| 13:47.27 | PulkoMandy | here it is, thanks Niharika :) |
| 13:47.32 | Niharika | :) |
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| 13:47.54 | PulkoMandy | so, about 1/4 students got accepted last year |
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| 13:48.13 | sumanah | Right. And for some organizations that was actually more like 2/3 and for some it was more like 1/10 |
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| 13:49.30 | darnir | novochen: Yes. |
| 13:49.34 | sumanah | oh interesting "So you've always wanted to talk to someone on @IPythonDev team? Let's hangout tomorrow: http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2014-February/013378.html https://plus.google.com/events/ch9rfr8khfl41nge3a4rrigefv8 " |
| 13:49.46 | darnir | Maybe we can take a further discussion to #wget so as not create any noise here? |
| 13:50.03 | novochen | right |
| 13:50.11 | sumanah | :) thx darnir |
| 13:50.59 | sumanah | yatharth01: looking at your fellow applicants and talking with the specific mentoring organization will give you more data. |
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| 13:52.51 | yatharth01 | sumanah: thnk you :) gonna bother you more! hehe :D |
| 13:53.37 | sumanah | yatharth01: I'm happy to be the second person you ask, after you ask someone in your mentoring org :) |
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| 14:00.35 | yatharth01 | sumanah: so basically you the first one :) |
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| 14:07.39 | null_wang | Does anyone had joined GSOC 2013 ? |
| 14:07.55 | sumanah | null_wang: I was an org admin in 2013 |
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| 14:08.42 | darnir | And me a student |
| 14:08.52 | null_wang | WOW ! ...... |
| 14:09.17 | null_wang | can share some tips ? |
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| 14:09.35 | sumanah | !manual |
| 14:09.42 | sumanah | !guide | null_wang |
| 14:09.45 | darnir | !studentguide | null_wang |
| 14:09.46 | gsocbot | null_wang: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 14:09.51 | sumanah | AHA |
| 14:09.52 | darnir | sumanah: You're rusty |
| 14:09.55 | sumanah | yeah |
| 14:10.19 | sumanah | null_wang: there's a free book at http://open-advice.org/ with a bunch of tips as well |
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| 14:11.20 | null_wang | Thanks! |
| 14:11.22 | sumanah | :) |
| 14:11.55 | phlox81 | and if you're looking for a C++ project, I've written an overview http://meetingcpp.com/index.php/br/items/cpp-and-the-google-summer-of-code.html |
| 14:12.40 | sumanah | phlox81: thank you for writing that! |
| 14:12.45 | bePolite | Wow |
| 14:12.55 | bePolite | I wonder how the chinese keyboard looks like |
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| 14:13.53 | phlox81 | sumanah you're welcome :) reddited my site quite well xD |
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| 14:14.59 | null_wang | http://meetingcpp.com/index.php/br/items/cpp-and-the-google-summer-of-code.html I'm Interesting this .... |
| 14:17.54 | novochen | bePoilte: chinese keyboards are just like the american ones ;p |
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| 14:22.00 | novochen | new question: is it appropriate to send a self-introduction email into a dev mailing list? |
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| 14:22.39 | PulkoMandy | novochen: yes |
| 14:22.41 | tierra | usually, yes |
| 14:22.50 | PulkoMandy | how would they know you're there, otherwise? |
| 14:22.57 | novochen | PulkoMandy: thx |
| 14:22.58 | null_wang | And when ? |
| 14:23.00 | PulkoMandy | well, unless they have a separate mailing list for that |
| 14:23.03 | novochen | tierra thanks |
| 14:23.04 | darnir | novochen: Almost always yes. Unless they've explcitly forbid it |
| 14:23.24 | novochen | thanks, darnir |
| 14:23.35 | gevaerts | I'd say yes, *if* you say what you're interested in working on |
| 14:24.01 | gevaerts | If it's just to tell them your name and what your favourite colour is, then don't bother :) |
| 14:24.07 | teepee_ | points phlox81 to BRL-Cad / OpenSCAD :) |
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| 14:24.55 | novochen | gevaerts: i'm planning to state that i'm a student interested in a specific idea of your org, etc, etc |
| 14:25.11 | gevaerts | novochen: yes, that sounds fine and appropriate |
| 14:25.13 | novochen | i think that will be ok. i think |
| 14:25.26 | kblin | gevaerts: as long as you state your mission, and that's related to the org, I think that's fine |
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| 14:25.41 | novochen | thx very much |
| 14:25.42 | phlox81 | teepee_ I've looked at all C++ tagged projects, but couldn't list all 57... |
| 14:25.47 | gevaerts | kblin: yes, that's probably a better way of saying it |
| 14:26.13 | kblin | gevaerts: it's also part of the three questions ;) |
| 14:26.20 | gevaerts | phlox81: if I type "c++" in the tag field, I get 57 matches |
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| 14:26.33 | gevaerts | kblin: what is the capital of Assyria? |
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| 14:26.50 | phlox81 | thats what I said. |
| 14:27.00 | phlox81 | 1 more then java :D |
| 14:27.05 | gevaerts | phlox81: oh, I see what you mean now :) |
| 14:27.06 | kblin | yay |
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| 14:27.17 | gevaerts | phlox81: bonus question: how many C projects are there? :) |
| 14:27.27 | teepee_ | phlox81: i know, i just wonder if if small projects will get students too... |
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| 14:28.34 | phlox81 | gevaerts more :P |
| 14:28.43 | royxue | hi |
| 14:28.50 | tierra | phlox81: I appreciate that wx made the list ;) |
| 14:28.59 | phlox81 | teepee_ I hope so. I listed only a few applications and no OS. |
| 14:29.02 | novochen | hi |
| 14:29.37 | phlox81 | tierra nice to see that wx is still alive :P |
| 14:29.57 | sumanah | hi royxue |
| 14:30.09 | PulkoMandy | phlox81: did I hear OS and C++ ? We have an org for you ! |
| 14:30.56 | PulkoMandy | C++ is maybe the only OS almost fully written in C++ (or are there others I don't know about yet?) |
| 14:31.09 | royxue | i haven't participate in gsoc before |
| 14:31.18 | phlox81 | C++ is a lot, but no OS :P |
| 14:31.24 | teepee_ | PulkoMandy: does microkernel stuff count? |
| 14:31.32 | royxue | but i wanna do it this summer so will it be difficult? |
| 14:31.33 | sumanah | royxue: welcome :) |
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| 14:31.46 | sumanah | royxue: every year there are people who do it for the first time. :) |
| 14:31.53 | sumanah | You can learn. |
| 14:32.01 | PulkoMandy | !goodenough |
| 14:32.01 | gsocbot | PulkoMandy: "goodenough" is Am I good enough to be a student for GSoC? http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 14:32.03 | gevaerts | phlox81: I find 43 of them |
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| 14:32.22 | royxue | sumanah oh 3q |
| 14:32.39 | sumanah | royxue: What does "3q" mean? You have three questions? |
| 14:32.57 | phlox81 | gevaerts thats 1 too many :P |
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| 14:33.10 | novochen | sumanah: that's thank you for short |
| 14:33.16 | tierra | I did notice that a lot of projects tagged themselves with numerous languages, and I'm sure it's valid if you considered students might submit proposals to work on new or existing bindings to other languages |
| 14:33.16 | novochen | sumanah: in chinese |
| 14:33.23 | sumanah | novochen: Oh! Thanks. |
| 14:33.38 | gevaerts | phlox81: by the way, \bc\b([^#+]|$) is the "tag" I used |
| 14:33.39 | royxue | maybe i should type thx |
| 14:33.43 | royxue | sorry |
| 14:33.54 | tierra | I'm just not sure the practice of tagging those languages in that list is the best use for students browsing potential projects |
| 14:34.41 | sumanah | tierra: it's a balancing act for sure |
| 14:34.52 | gevaerts | royxue: no need to apologise for that sort of thing. Now we all learned something :) |
| 14:35.12 | heller | phlox81: C++ is perfect for writing an operating system. Or does OS stand for something different? |
| 14:36.05 | phlox81 | heller, that was the statement I replied to C++ is maybe the only OS almost fully written in C++ (or are there others I don't know about yet?) |
| 14:36.21 | phlox81 | heller, that was the statement I replied to "C++ is maybe the only OS almost fully written in C++ (or are there others I don't know about yet?)" |
| 14:36.29 | heller | haha |
| 14:36.31 | gevaerts | suspects PulkoMandy meant "Haiku" for that first "C++" :) |
| 14:36.36 | PulkoMandy | probably :) |
| 14:36.38 | tierra | for example, PostgreSQL has adding "PHP" as a tag, which is certainly valid with the phpPgAdmin being a valid sub-project to work on, and they even had a project accepted on it in a previous year, but I'm not sure just how helpful the tag on the list is for students (when it could still just be listed on the ideas page) |
| 14:37.07 | royxue | i think python program is suitable for me~so i checked Scrapy,how many programs can i apply? |
| 14:37.30 | PulkoMandy | tierra: the goal of the tag list is to get students on your idea page - so yes, having all tags for all ideas there maybe gives students a lot of results |
| 14:37.33 | sumanah | royxue: you *can* apply for several, but if this is your first time trying GSoC then you should really only write 1 or 2 proposals |
| 14:38.08 | sumanah | royxue: http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch005_choosing-an-organization/ is a useful page to look at. |
| 14:38.47 | tierra | PulkoMandy: well, to be fair here, PostgreSQL doesn't actually have any PHP-specific project ideas even listed this year... |
| 14:39.03 | tierra | so, is it valid this year? |
| 14:39.11 | PulkoMandy | mh.. no? |
| 14:39.33 | gevaerts | They probably copied tags |
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| 14:41.01 | royxue | sumanah thx |
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| 14:41.39 | sumanah | It probably makes sense to ask the PostgreSQL people |
| 14:41.57 | sumanah | royxue: :) you might also benefit from http://sindhus.bitbucket.org/common-pitfalls-of-newcomers-in-foss.html and http://www.harihareswara.net/sumana/2014/02/26/0 |
| 14:42.33 | tierra | sorry, wasn't intending to pick on any specific projects, just wanted to point out a trend I was just noticing with the tags |
| 14:42.39 | novochen | maybe the PostgreSQL people are planning to reimplement it in php? (just a joke) |
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| 14:44.49 | royxue | sumanah ill see the websites tonight |
| 14:45.01 | sumanah | :) |
| 14:45.19 | sumanah | is glad her recommendations will be useful |
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| 14:46.45 | novochen | working on my first mailing-list email.. |
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| 14:47.04 | sumanah | :) |
| 14:47.26 | gevaerts | novochen: make sure you send it to the correct mailing list :) |
| 14:47.50 | novochen | of course, gevaerts lol |
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| 14:48.37 | gevaerts | novochen: it happens... :) |
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| 14:49.29 | novochen | gevaerts: i will double check that...thx for noticing |
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| 16:02.21 | nwinter | It looks like we're going to have far more good proposals than we'll have slots–I was told new orgs like CodeCombat typically get 1-2 slots, and there are at least 10 people who have come with solid pre-proposals and started hacking on stuff, with more every day. We're getting good contributions, which I like, but I don't want to lead people on. Should I be telling students that unless they are suuuper competitive to look at other p |
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| 16:03.22 | PulkoMandy | nwinter: I'd say yes, at least suggest them to have a backup proposal elsewhere |
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| 16:05.51 | kblin | nwinter: of course that looks like a good basis for taking on more students next year |
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| 16:18.15 | shrihari | What happens when a student submits 2 proposals to 2 different organizations? |
| 16:18.48 | Slurpee | shrihari, for one thing...time is spent focusing between two diff organizations. Are the orgs similar? |
| 16:19.59 | shrihari | Slurpee: Not very. Technology-wise slightly. |
| 16:20.31 | shrihari | Slurpee: What I wanted to know was: who decides which project gets accepted? |
| 16:20.44 | croozeus | nwinter: who tells you that new orgs get 1-2 slots? |
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| 16:20.50 | shrihari | Because FAQ says "Yes, each student may submit up to five proposals. However, only one proposal will be accepted." |
| 16:21.14 | Slurpee | shrihari, I don't represent Google, but I would assume the better proposal will win. |
| 16:21.52 | croozeus | !logs |
| 16:21.52 | gsocbot | croozeus: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 16:22.16 | PulkoMandy | shrihari: there is an IRC meeting between organization with conflicting students |
| 16:22.22 | PulkoMandy | they decide what to do |
| 16:22.24 | kblin | shrihari: if more than one of your proposals are accepted, only one of them will be accpeted, obviously |
| 16:22.36 | aastha | is it told how many slots are available with each organization? |
| 16:22.49 | PulkoMandy | usually they ask the student, but it also depends if one of the orgs has got many applications and can easily replace the student with another, or ifthey don't |
| 16:22.53 | kblin | the mentoring orgs you applied to will sort it out. They might decide to ask you |
| 16:23.01 | kblin | what PulkoMandy said :) |
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| 16:23.13 | PulkoMandy | aastha: this is decided only after the students have submitted proposals |
| 16:23.29 | PulkoMandy | (so the number can be adjusted depending on how many proposals the org got) |
| 16:23.30 | shrihari | PulkoMandy, aastha: Okay. Understood :) |
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| 16:23.37 | kblin | aastha: you'll find out once the "accepted students" list is published :) |
| 16:24.12 | PulkoMandy | and croozeus; this is what usually happens. It is better for the org to learn how to run GSoC with fewer students, make adjustments, and get more slots the following year |
| 16:24.13 | kblin | croozeus: new orgs usually don't get more than two slots |
| 16:24.15 | aastha | ohkay |
| 16:24.16 | aastha | thanks! |
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| 16:25.45 | croozeus | kblin; PulkoMandy: thanks, I didn't know that.. what if they have more mentors to offer |
| 16:26.03 | PulkoMandy | students gets more carefully watched by more mentors :) |
| 16:26.25 | nwinter | shrihari: hi again–yes, I was just mentioning how many awesome students are interested in CodeCombat, so submitting a backup proposal to another org is a good idea |
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| 16:29.45 | shrihari | nwinter: hi again :) yes, I was thinking about the same. Since CodeCombat is a new org and may not get a lot of slots. |
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| 16:31.04 | kblin | croozeus: is this something we need to discuss in a query? |
| 16:31.27 | PulkoMandy | in our org we ask students if they applied somewhere else - we understand it's difficult to get 2 good proposals up, so in this case, we can go ask the other org if the student did well, and take this into account, even if we only got the "secondary" proposal which is not as good as the main one |
| 16:31.37 | kblin | I'm happy to publicly state that like some of the other ops in this channel, I'm not affiliated with google |
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| 16:31.52 | shrihari | nwinter: I was thinking of submitting 2 proposals at the max. |
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| 16:32.27 | kblin | I'm just an op because I have been around for pretty much ten years now |
| 16:33.35 | croozeus | kblin: aha.. would you know when the org needs to fill in min and max student slots to request from Google? I didn't get an email to fill them up, but it's available in melange form |
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| 16:39.41 | kblin | croozeus: you'll get an email about that |
| 16:39.59 | kblin | croozeus: and possibly the timeline has something about that as well |
| 16:40.07 | kblin | TL;DR, not yet |
| 16:42.26 | croozeus | okay, thanks |
| 16:43.17 | kblin | croozeus: 7 April: |
| 16:43.18 | one_more_minute | !whoami |
| 16:43.18 | gsocbot | one_more_minute: I don't recognize you. |
| 16:43.18 | kblin | Mentoring organizations should have requested slots via their profile in Melange by this point. |
| 16:43.40 | one_more_minute | !next |
| 16:43.41 | gsocbot | one_more_minute: "next" is The student application period opens on 10th March |
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| 16:44.51 | Slurpee | kblin, we should have? |
| 16:45.26 | kblin | !timeline | Slurpee |
| 16:45.26 | gsocbot | Slurpee: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014 |
| 16:45.32 | kblin | not yet |
| 16:46.30 | kblin | Slurpee: if you ignore the context I had literally seconds before, you're not going to see the full picture :) |
| 16:46.43 | kshitij8_ | Its so hard to find approachable bugs to begin with. |
| 16:47.11 | kshitij8_ | With the Google Code-In finding such bugs is even harder |
| 16:47.18 | Slurpee | kblin, I'm following... |
| 16:47.47 | kblin | Slurpee: great :) |
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| 16:50.44 | kblin | kshitij8_: you could implement a new feature that contains a carefully hidden bug, and then fix that? |
| 16:51.02 | shrihari | kblin: Ha ha !! :D |
| 16:52.50 | kblin | it's also a good skill later in life to increase job security ;) |
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| 16:53.11 | kshitij8_ | wonders what impression it'll make |
| 16:53.37 | kblin | the trick really is "carefully hidden" :) |
| 16:54.20 | kblin | arguably, if you go and accidently manage to add a bug to the new feature you added, you at least added a new feature |
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| 16:55.21 | kshitij8_ | kblin seems to know a lot about adding bugs. |
| 16:55.27 | kshitij8_ | err features ;) |
| 16:56.49 | kblin | kshitij8_: same thing, really, the main difference being the quality of documentation |
| 16:57.40 | kshitij8_ | :D |
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| 17:18.46 | patg_ | I'm trying to register as a mentor for gsco but it doesn't seem to be taking |
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| 17:26.31 | patg_ | hello is there a way to tell if my mentor registration went through |
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| 17:30.07 | PulkoMandy | patg_: you should see that with the org mentor, I think |
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| 17:30.39 | patg_ | apparently went down the wrong path but am redoing it |
| 17:30.41 | paultag | whoh I read that so wrong |
| 17:31.00 | paultag | I'm known elsewhere as ptag, so that was really confusing just now |
| 17:31.01 | paultag | awesome |
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| 17:32.38 | patg_ | paultag: so if I talk to you, you might get confused and think you are talking to yourself |
| 17:32.45 | paultag | mumbles to himself |
| 17:32.56 | paultag | erm I mean patg_ |
| 17:33.04 | paultag | erm I mean. Oh, I don't know anymore. |
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| 17:43.46 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
| 17:43.55 | sumanah | much thanks carols! |
| 17:43.59 | carols | :-) |
| 17:44.03 | sumanah | serves herself a cup of hoji-cha |
| 17:44.26 | gevaerts | gets tea |
| 17:44.48 | carols | everyone's on the tea train today :-) |
| 17:45.02 | downey | tea? did somebody say tea? |
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| 17:45.13 | carols | yes, someone said tea |
| 17:45.22 | sumanah | hiya downey :) how is OpenMRS doing this season? |
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| 17:45.53 | gevaerts | carols: by the way, did we thank you for accepting bbauv this year, thereby giving the term "sub-org" a new meaning? :) |
| 17:46.08 | carols | gevaerts: i see what you did there ;-) |
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| 17:48.01 | downey | sumanah: Busy and exciting as usual, thanks! :-) |
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| 17:56.39 | sumanah | hi sumani! we have similar names :) |
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| 18:23.08 | Elhamer | Hi ..Is it okay to submit two separated Proposal , each one target a different project idea with in the same organisation ? |
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| 18:24.10 | carols | Elhamer: sure |
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| 18:24.42 | Elhamer | carols :ok thx |
| 18:24.45 | carols | yw |
| 18:25.21 | kfogel | carols: Hey there -- quick question re GSoC procedures: I keep getting emails containing "New connection for Arches Project" requests from google-melange. What I want to do is say to all these students "Don't connect to us here in Google Melange, instead come talk to us via our project's regular communications channels, e.g., dev list etc." |
| 18:25.38 | kfogel | carols: But will the students need some kind of formal "connection" via melange when they want to apply for our project? |
| 18:25.54 | carols | kfogel: the "connection" is their application |
| 18:26.01 | carols | it's not done through the connections system |
| 18:26.25 | carols | turns out it doesn't matter how much you tell people to do something, they only listen about 20% of the time... |
| 18:26.35 | kfogel | carols: sorry -- I'm having trouble reconciling your first and second sentences |
| 18:26.49 | kfogel | carols: :-). That is: what is it that isn't done thorugh the connections system? |
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| 18:27.03 | carols | kfogel: no, the connections system is for mentors and org admins |
| 18:27.29 | carols | kfogel: and students shouldn't be doing anything via melange right now at all |
| 18:27.33 | carols | if they are, they're doing it wrong |
| 18:27.50 | carols | well, they can look at org homepages |
| 18:27.54 | carols | but that's the lot of it |
| 18:27.56 | kfogel | carols: *nod* |
| 18:28.28 | kfogel | carols: interestingly, some of those requesting connections via melange are also among the more clueful people asking questions in our dev forum. |
| 18:28.49 | carols | kfogel: well, if there's a feature request in melange in there we welcome it :-) |
| 18:28.53 | PulkoMandy | maybe you need more big red warnings 'application through melange not open yet" ? |
| 18:29.23 | carols | PulkoMandy: i'm looking at melange right now and on the homepage it says "Students |
| 18:29.23 | carols | Registration opens on March 10, 2014, 7 p.m. UTC. |
| 18:29.24 | carols | If you plan to participate as a student, you should not register as an organization member now." |
| 18:29.28 | carols | is that not enough? |
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| 18:30.36 | brlcad | we already had one student sign up for a connection, thinking that was how they register |
| 18:30.42 | brlcad | set them straight |
| 18:30.52 | carols | what are we missing? |
| 18:30.59 | carols | can someone formulate it into a feature request? |
| 18:31.09 | carols | because i really want to make people less inclined to do it wrong... |
| 18:31.20 | kfogel | carols: I don't know why they're opening connections, but I suspect that they do _not_ think that opening a connection to an org is the same thing as registering as an organization member. |
| 18:31.26 | brlcad | i'm not sure how they came to that conclusion other than they're just eager to get started and they see a big "Register" link |
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| 18:31.41 | carols | kfogel: and how to better explain it? |
| 18:32.05 | kfogel | carols: I don't know -- I haven't tried to navigate the system as a student, so I don't really know what UI they're seeing from the start. |
| 18:32.10 | carols | we can't lock down reg for org admins and mentors... |
| 18:32.23 | carols | and we can't know whether the random person on the internet who clicks the "Register |
| 18:32.30 | carols | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:32.41 | sushant | Hello everyone |
| 18:32.46 | carols | hi sushant |
| 18:32.47 | brlcad | maybe display the two options "Register as Mentor" and "Register as Student" on the main page, but the latter taking them to a page that says "TOO SOON!" |
| 18:32.57 | carols | brlcad: maybe |
| 18:32.59 | kfogel | carols: what brlcad said, I think? |
| 18:33.01 | brlcad | they just see register and click it |
| 18:33.08 | kfogel | carols: when I look at the front page UI right now, I myself am confused, FWIW. |
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| 18:33.27 | carols | kfogel: okay, and so the confusing part is that there's only one register link, not two? |
| 18:33.30 | kfogel | carols: it says "Mentors & Administrators -- Registration with participating organizations is now open. -- [Start connection] " |
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| 18:34.00 | kfogel | carols: so if I read that, and I'm a mentor, I'm confused, because I don't understand why I'd have to register with a participating organization (I thought I was already part of my org!) |
| 18:34.21 | kfogel | carols: and if I'm a student, I'm confused, because the two final lines are "registration with participating organizations is now open" and then a button to "start connection" |
| 18:34.24 | TCD | registration for mentors in participating orgas? |
| 18:34.26 | TCD | orgs* |
| 18:34.29 | kfogel | carols: well, if I wanted to apply, I'd click! |
| 18:34.31 | PulkoMandy | the most visible part of the page is currently the "login" or "start connection" |
| 18:34.40 | PulkoMandy | which is why I said the warning should be big and red |
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| 18:35.03 | carols | sushant: you can message us here, please don't PM me. |
| 18:35.21 | kfogel | carols: I think students and mentors are just different audiences and need their own workflows. Each button that can be clicked should make clear who is expected to click it, ideally? |
| 18:35.22 | brlcad | what's missing is the student's perspective, they want to register/connect/etc .. and that's the closest they can find |
| 18:35.43 | carols | kfogel: okay, so how do we present the workflow better? |
| 18:35.59 | PulkoMandy | kfogel: this can only work once you registered as either mentor or student |
| 18:36.01 | carols | brlcad: okay, and if reg isn't open for them we should still present them a register button that doesn't do anything? |
| 18:36.11 | PulkoMandy | which is the step that's already confusing people |
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| 18:36.37 | PulkoMandy | maybe, we could allow students to register, and say "I'm a student!", but not allow them to connect to orgs |
| 18:36.50 | PulkoMandy | just so they would have a button to click at this point |
| 18:37.01 | carols | PulkoMandy: sure, could you file a feature request for that please? |
| 18:37.16 | PulkoMandy | where should I go ? |
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| 18:37.36 | carols | PulkoMandy: https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/list |
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| 18:37.41 | kfogel | carols: I hate to give an answer like this, but it's too big a question for me to be able to answer in a chat. The GSoC UI workflow from the org/mentor side was pretty confusing when I did it recently; I'm gathering that it is so for students as well. I mean, typically, when Google releases a product, there are user testing sessions and UX designers involved and whatnot... I'm guessing GSoC-on-Melange doesn't get that treatmet? |
| 18:37.59 | kfogel | carols: (not a criticism of GSoC at all, in case that wasn't clear) |
| 18:38.03 | carols | kfogel: melange is an open source tool primarily staffed by developers outside google... |
| 18:38.09 | kfogel | carols: Yeah... |
| 18:38.20 | carols | kfogel: patches welcome :-) |
| 18:38.28 | kfogel | carols: Uh, right :-). |
| 18:38.30 | PulkoMandy | kfogel: this happens every year - the Melange people are doing some tests during the year but no one shows up |
| 18:38.42 | carols | what PulkoMandy said. |
| 18:38.44 | PulkoMandy | then everyone jumps on for GSoC and complains because it's all broken |
| 18:38.56 | carols | yep! |
| 18:39.50 | kfogel | PulkoMandy, carols: Ummmm... I'm not sure how to answer that. I mean, for the problem to be solved, someone has to pay serious UX attention to the product, in a centralized and sustained way. I get it that that might not be in the cards, and that's okay; GSoC will still run just fine, and people will continue to complain, and that's okay. |
| 18:40.26 | PulkoMandy | it's difficult for this particular project, because they get all their user exposure only duing GSoC |
| 18:40.34 | PulkoMandy | then spend the rest of the year trying to fix all the issues |
| 18:40.52 | kfogel | PulkoMandy, carols: So maybe having the design/UX people here in channel during GSoC, taking notes, filing bugs, coming up with a new workflow, etc, would be the right time? |
| 18:41.05 | carols | kfogel: you say design/ux people... |
| 18:41.13 | carols | those are just the melange developers... |
| 18:41.22 | stqism | ;_; I had a student ask what he's supposed to do until the application period. |
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| 18:41.33 | kfogel | carols: So, if there aren't any such people (and I understand why there aren't), then there's no motivation for people to show up during the alleged testing phase -- it's a waste of time. |
| 18:41.57 | kfogel | stqism: (fix bugs in his chosen projects? :-) ) |
| 18:42.17 | carols | sure, that's fine with me too. which is why i said that we'd welcome a feature request we can implement in the form of a bug |
| 18:42.27 | aried3r | Hey, do i have to re-register every year as a mentor? I am already logged in and have been a mentor before, yet I don't get a link to apply at an org but to register (even if logged in?). |
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| 18:42.36 | kfogel | carols: this is exactly the sort of thing that can't be captured in a single bug report, though. |
| 18:42.38 | PulkoMandy | aried3r: yes |
| 18:42.42 | carols | kfogel: ok |
| 18:42.47 | kfogel | carols: this is workflow throughout the entire app, I think? |
| 18:43.04 | aried3r | fair enough |
| 18:43.20 | stqism | kfogel: I told him it was his job to do what he thinks will help him stand out, and that he's looking at our most crowded proposal :) |
| 18:43.33 | carols | kfogel: sure, i can understand that |
| 18:43.39 | croozeus | kfogel, carols: may be there can be a session planned at this years mentors summit to refine the melange work flow.. or discuss how to make him better |
| 18:43.50 | kfogel | carols: I also don't think it's the end of the world if it never gets fixed. Essentially, GSoC is saying "the cost of making our workflow really easy & clear is too high, so we're externalizing most of that cost to users & orgs every year" |
| 18:43.52 | croozeus | them* |
| 18:43.58 | kfogel | carols: I don't mean that facetiously -- it's a legit solution! |
| 18:44.03 | kfogel | carols: I do it all the time, no joke. |
| 18:44.16 | carols | croozeus: could you please suggest that to the melange folks? not my department :-) |
| 18:44.20 | carols | kfogel: indeed :-) |
| 18:44.21 | stqism | kfogel: Outsourcing? |
| 18:45.11 | kfogel | stqism: "externalizing" is a term of art in economics and is probably the right term here; "outsourcing" is slightly different, though related. I'll take off my Former English Teacher hat now! |
| 18:45.24 | carols | trundles off to a meeting |
| 18:45.39 | stqism | ^studentfaq |
| 18:45.42 | stqism | ;studentfaq |
| 18:45.49 | stqism | No? Uugh bot |
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| 18:46.34 | croozeus | !faq |
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| 18:46.35 | gsocbot | croozeus: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page |
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| 18:47.45 | PulkoMandy | https://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=2063 |
| 18:47.49 | PulkoMandy | how does that look? |
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| 19:03.44 | hiddenpearls | carols |
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| 19:08.33 | cynic | Hello All, I am wondering whether its possible to work on GSOC without CPT while in US on F1 Visa |
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| 19:09.08 | stqism | cynic: CPT? |
| 19:09.54 | cynic | Curricular Practical Training (CPT) is temporary employment authorization for F-1 visa non-immigrant foreign students in the United States while enrolled in a college-level degree program. |
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| 19:11.41 | stqism | cynic: Gotcha, I really don't think it matters, according to the FAQ, who states that you just need to be enrolled in a college/university. Though carols would know 100% |
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| 19:12.47 | gevaerts | It shouldn't matter from the GSoC side of things, but you need to be allowed to work by your visa |
| 19:13.12 | cynic | Thats my question... Do I need to be allowed to work? |
| 19:13.44 | gevaerts | cynic: see http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#6._I_am_an_accepted_student_in_the |
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| 19:14.22 | cynic | Is there any option that I can participate in GSOC without stipend? |
| 19:14.31 | cynic | Thanks gevaerts |
| 19:14.55 | stqism | cynic: That's something you'd have to work out with carols, she'd be better qualified to answer. |
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| 19:15.15 | stqism | cynic: But she isn't here, so I recommend shooting an email to carols@google.com |
| 19:15.48 | Gentlecat | stqism: that was discussed earlier, actually. http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#18._pay |
| 19:16.28 | cynic | Thanks Gentlecat |
| 19:16.35 | Gentlecat | but yeah, you should write carol |
| 19:16.44 | stqism | TIL :P |
| 19:16.44 | cynic | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:24.37 | funcode | . /msg funcode register funrepublic aroraprince0123@gmail.com |
| 20:24.42 | paultag | whoops! |
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| 20:33.32 | _flatline_ | lol |
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| 20:33.57 | cff | someone did a booboo |
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| 20:37.06 | _flatline_ | Hopefully most people in here are somewhat benevolent...? |
| 20:38.51 | brlcad | _flatline_: depends what you did/do |
| 20:38.51 | kfogel | is away: Contemplating the future of distributed version control in the face of Peak Oil. |
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| 20:49.45 | rlyshw | the new python.org is fancy |
| 20:50.17 | cheryllium | I agree. I wish pygame would update their front end as well |
| 20:50.46 | rlyshw | the pygame site looks like it's from the 90s |
| 20:50.47 | cheryllium | hi everyone, so I really want to do gsoc but I'm not sure how to make a good application, as I've never done this before |
| 20:51.16 | cheryllium | I know what organization I want to work with, but am not sure how I can go about talking to them about project ideas |
| 20:51.26 | PulkoMandy | cheryllium: that's ok, most other students are in this case |
| 20:51.45 | rlyshw | I've been joining mailing lists and hanging out in IRCs |
| 20:51.52 | PulkoMandy | you can join their IRC channel or mailing list and introduce yourself, they'll give you more detailed advice there |
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| 20:52.05 | brlcad | cheryllium: not necessarily the org you're interested in, but there are relevant guidelines here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines#Writing_a_Successful_Application |
| 20:52.25 | brlcad | talking to them is definitely the first step |
| 20:53.22 | cheryllium | how can I contact these organizations? is there a list of emails or anything on the gsoc website? |
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| 20:53.49 | brlcad | cheryllium: every org has a list of contact methods on their profile page |
| 20:53.51 | brlcad | on the right |
| 20:53.57 | rlyshw | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 |
| 20:53.58 | cheryllium | ah okay, thank you |
| 20:54.23 | brlcad | you should check out BRL-CAD ;) |
| 20:54.38 | cheryllium | I dunno, I mean, I'm pretty set on which organization(s) I'm interested in... heheh |
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| 20:55.19 | brlcad | your loss ;) jhk |
| 20:55.40 | cheryllium | haha |
| 20:55.45 | cheryllium | I'm concerned because I'm such a n00b |
| 20:55.51 | brlcad | we historically have had excellent acceptance odds for well-written pre-discussed applications |
| 20:55.53 | cheryllium | and there's 6 days until applications open |
| 20:56.01 | brlcad | that's lots of time, plenty |
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| 20:56.18 | cheryllium | I want to experiment with my proposal, of course, but I don't know how much I can learn in 6 days |
| 20:56.45 | Alegend2 | Are there any emulation-related projects for SocC 2014? |
| 20:56.48 | brlcad | you have until the submission deadline |
| 20:56.53 | Alegend2 | *SoC |
| 20:56.59 | brlcad | Alegend2: did you search on "emulation" |
| 20:57.09 | brlcad | you can filter the orgs based on keywords |
| 20:57.19 | cheryllium | is there any benefit to submitting early? |
| 20:57.25 | PulkoMandy | cheryllium: yes |
| 20:57.27 | Alegend2 | Oh. |
| 20:57.37 | PulkoMandy | mentors get more time to review your proposal, tell you how to improve it |
| 20:57.38 | brlcad | depends on the org |
| 20:57.41 | PulkoMandy | and you get more time to fix it |
| 20:57.43 | cheryllium | ah, okay |
| 20:57.55 | PulkoMandy | but yes, some orgs may work differently - just ask them if that's ok to do |
| 20:57.57 | brlcad | some don't even read them until the deadline |
| 20:58.02 | PulkoMandy | or if they don't have time to review drafts |
| 20:58.14 | brlcad | but in general, yeah -- discuss early, discuss often |
| 20:58.36 | PulkoMandy | yes, and if in doubt, just ask |
| 20:58.41 | cheryllium | I'll hop into their irc channel... I hope they're friendly :/ |
| 20:59.34 | gevaerts | cheryllium: if they're not, pick a different organisation |
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| 21:00.47 | PulkoMandy | or try the mailing list |
| 21:01.04 | brlcad | go for both |
| 21:01.09 | PulkoMandy | but yes, a friendly IRC channel can be helpful througout gsoc |
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| 21:06.18 | funcode | hello everyone |
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| 21:08.04 | cheryllium | hello, funcode |
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| 21:17.01 | funcode | any project for android programmers? |
| 21:17.14 | funcode | who has an interest in machine learning |
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| 21:19.04 | brlcad | funcode: we'd like someone to port our graphics viewer interface to android |
| 21:19.11 | brlcad | but if you search on android, I'm sure you'll find many |
| 21:19.36 | brlcad | 18 in fact |
| 21:19.57 | funcode | brlcad: besides android what all languages would you be using |
| 21:20.17 | funcode | brlcad:I can work on python and web dev as well |
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| 21:21.04 | cheryllium | is it okay for me to email proposals to an organization before march 10th, as in to ask for feedback on the idea? |
| 21:21.16 | brlcad | funcode: what would I be using? it's not my project |
| 21:21.29 | brlcad | it's your project -- your proposal |
| 21:22.00 | brlcad | there are projects ideas for nearly every language, you have to research what is interesting to you |
| 21:22.05 | funcode | brlcad:but organizations have language preferences |
| 21:22.07 | terri | cheryllium: yes, that's ok. even encouraged by many orgs! |
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| 21:22.55 | edsiper | cheryllium, thats the best thing you can do |
| 21:23.02 | cheryllium | okay, awesome |
| 21:23.25 | brlcad | cheryllium: suggest putting it on a web page (e.g., a wiki) |
| 21:23.32 | brlcad | e-mailing that instead |
| 21:23.38 | cheryllium | brlcad: why? |
| 21:23.49 | brlcad | mailing list etiquette |
| 21:23.53 | brlcad | unless you know theirs |
| 21:23.57 | terri | Depends on the org. I know Mailman likes full proposals in email. :) |
| 21:24.01 | gevaerts | All of this very much depends on the org |
| 21:24.09 | brlcad | exactly why |
| 21:24.21 | terri | but yeah, just ask them how they'd like to look at the proposal |
| 21:24.33 | brlcad | some orgs may be offended, others enourage it |
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| 21:24.51 | cheryllium | I'm interested in sbcl |
| 21:25.10 | cheryllium | I don't see how they can be offended by me sending them some ideas I have |
| 21:25.12 | brlcad | sounds like a great question to ask them in their irc channel |
| 21:26.10 | brlcad | cheryllium: sending some ideas is not the same as sending them your proposal (which to some people might mean a 20MB attached document, or just a few paragraphs of text) |
| 21:26.22 | cheryllium | oh, okay |
| 21:26.29 | cheryllium | well there doesn't seem to be a mentor in their irc channel atm |
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| 21:26.58 | brlcad | ask and wait, the irc way |
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| 21:27.38 | brlcad | suggest networking with at least two orgs, on proposal each, so you're not just waiting |
| 21:27.47 | brlcad | s/on proposal/one proposal/ |
| 21:28.07 | brlcad | among other factors |
| 21:28.34 | PulkoMandy | and, you're not forced to talk only to mentors - other people may be able to help you as well |
| 21:30.14 | edsiper | cheryllium, mentors will be happy to receive advanced proposals, nobody will be offended, in our org we already received a few ones, and the good thing is that they are receiving valuable feedback for their final application |
| 21:33.13 | brlcad | might bold statement to make across 190 orgs, I know more than a few that would be unimpressed with people that ignore their mailing list etiquette / rules, no matter who they are |
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| 21:34.50 | brlcad | we welcome it, and some orgs may even entertain it for gsoc, but your best bet is to just politely ask them first how you can get feedback apriori |
| 21:35.13 | CFS-MP3 | is melange having problems right now? I'm getting some error messages... can't access my organization profile |
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| 21:36.22 | brlcad | CFS-MP3: no problems here |
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| 21:43.49 | CFS-MP3 | um |
| 21:43.58 | CFS-MP3 | looks like 10 projects are now missing from the list |
| 21:44.00 | CFS-MP3 | from 190 to 180 |
| 21:44.03 | CFS-MP3 | one of them missing |
| 21:44.20 | CFS-MP3 | one of them mine, I mena |
| 21:45.15 | gevaerts | CFS-MP3: do you have anything in the filter fields? |
| 21:45.16 | CFS-MP3 | this is really really weird |
| 21:45.34 | CFS-MP3 | the list in the homepage in UE says "See all 180 mentoring organizations " |
| 21:45.41 | CFS-MP3 | in IE I mean |
| 21:45.44 | CFS-MP3 | in firefox it says 190 |
| 21:46.08 | cff | CFS-MP3: screenshot or it didn't happened |
| 21:46.22 | gevaerts | Are you looking at the 2012 page by any chance? |
| 21:46.26 | CFS-MP3 | Ah, no never mind :-) |
| 21:46.29 | CFS-MP3 | yes gevaerts that's it |
| 21:46.36 | CFS-MP3 | still however I can't see my own organization |
| 21:46.42 | CFS-MP3 | in my profile I mean |
| 21:48.48 | brlcad | CFS-MP3: admins have to go to "Managed Organizations" instead of "My Organizations" |
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| 21:49.55 | CFS-MP3 | brlcad how do I add a mentor to my org? |
| 21:50.07 | brlcad | Connections |
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| 21:50.29 | brlcad | "Connect users with Your Org" |
| 21:50.29 | CFS-MP3 | Error retrieving data: please refresh the list or the whole page to try again |
| 21:50.35 | CFS-MP3 | that's the issue |
| 21:50.47 | brlcad | log out, kill your cookies, restart browser |
| 21:51.02 | brlcad | melange can get stuck sometimes when an update is pushed out |
| 21:51.17 | CFS-MP3 | ok I'll give it a bit |
| 21:51.19 | CFS-MP3 | thanks :-) |
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| 22:16.51 | stevetr | hello? |
| 22:18.05 | rlyshw | hi |
| 22:18.54 | stevetr | what's the point of this room? |
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| 22:25.08 | Arthur_Dent | stevetr: it's for students and mentors to ask questions, for example the one you just asked ;) |
| 22:25.39 | Arthur_Dent | and then someone who knows will answer, either a volunteer or someone from Google |
| 22:26.07 | stevetr | awesome! I'm a freshman and i'm wondering if it would be possible for me to be a part of the summer of code for this year despite by newbieness |
| 22:26.16 | stevetr | *my |
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| 22:29.51 | phlox81 | ouch. GnuTLS considered harmful. http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/200802/msg00072.html |
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| 22:30.36 | gevaerts | phlox81: that's six years old |
| 22:30.57 | cheryllium | stevetr I'm a freshman too, and hey, we gotta start somewhere right |
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| 22:32.49 | nemo__ | hi anishshah101 |
| 22:32.52 | nemo__ | :) |
| 22:33.04 | phlox81 | gevaerts right |
| 22:33.19 | olly | !amigoodenough | stevetr |
| 22:33.19 | gsocbot | stevetr: "amigoodenough" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch003_am-i-good-enough/ |
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| 22:34.17 | anishshah101 | hi |
| 22:35.04 | stevetr | thanks for the advice, how can I prepare for the application process? |
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| 22:35.59 | nemo__ | is wondering why melange.com of last year of my site are all gone -> http://publiclab.org/wiki/gsoc-2013-mentors-and-student-proposals |
| 22:36.06 | brlcad | stevetr: absolutely possible |
| 22:36.09 | stevetr | scratch that, this website is awesome! |
| 22:36.12 | olly | stevetr: i'd recommend reading the rest of that guide |
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| 22:36.48 | brlcad | stevetr: first step is to find one or two orgs that you'd like to contribute to, based on your interests (so nobody can tell you which) |
| 22:36.56 | olly | nemo__: students who failed aren't listed in melange, is that what you're seeing? |
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| 22:37.22 | brlcad | you can filter orgs in melange based on keywords, for example |
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| 22:37.46 | nemo__ | olly, thx |
| 22:37.49 | brlcad | and the student guide is pretty much essential reading |
| 22:38.45 | olly | nemo__: i'd not completely convinced they should vanish completely, but that's how it's worked for ages |
| 22:39.00 | olly | vanish from the public views that is |
| 22:39.12 | olly | you can see them as an org admin, etc |
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| 22:40.13 | nemo__ | ohh I see so I will not delete the links but add this to the page ... |
| 22:40.39 | nemo__ | that you have to be org admin for the links to work ... |
| 22:41.50 | olly | nemo__: oh, looking at the page I wonder if they just changed the URL syntax |
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| 22:43.22 | olly | i thought you'd meant accepted students, not proposals |
| 22:43.42 | olly | i.e. the list here http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org2/google/gsoc2013/public_lab won't show students who failed the midterm or final |
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| 22:44.38 | nemo__ | olly, awesome was searching for this :) |
| 22:45.17 | olly | nemo__: i can't seem to see any 2013 or 2012 proposals in the dashboard |
| 22:45.39 | olly | i suspect they aren't visible currently - you might want to ask in #melange |
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| 23:36.52 | rlyshw | Not sure what to do if I can't contact a mentor that is overseeing a project I want to work on |
| 23:37.03 | sumanah | hi rlyshw! what have you tried? |
| 23:37.09 | sumanah | rlyshw: (I mean, to contact her or him) |
| 23:37.15 | sumanah | rlyshw: and how long ago did you try it? |
| 23:37.29 | rlyshw | I sent an email |
| 23:37.42 | sumanah | rlyshw: ok. Did you send it to the mentor's personal email address, or to the mailing list? |
| 23:37.50 | sumanah | (the mailing list of the project, I mean) |
| 23:38.04 | rlyshw | Not to the mailing list |
| 23:38.21 | sumanah | rlyshw: ok. So how long ago did you send it? |
| 23:38.22 | rlyshw | in IRC i recieved an automated response telling me to email him directly |
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| 23:38.28 | rlyshw | 2 days ago |
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| 23:39.08 | rlyshw | Maybe I should give it more time? |
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| 23:39.30 | sumanah | rlyshw: ok. So I think you should reply-all to the mailing list + the mentor |
| 23:39.38 | sumanah | rlyshw: and cc the org admin of the mentoring org |
| 23:39.58 | sumanah | rlyshw: also, please be sure to check your spam box |
| 23:40.11 | sumanah | make sure you have not missed a response |
| 23:40.20 | terri | 2 days isn't too long if the mentor has a cold or a busy week at work |
| 23:40.41 | terri | but it's worth trying the mailing list. sometimes people there will know if someone's not available and will be able to help. |
| 23:40.47 | rlyshw | Yeah that's true. I'll contact the mailing list and give it a bit longer. |
| 23:40.48 | sumanah | agrees with terri |
| 23:40.54 | rlyshw | Thanks! |
| 23:40.58 | sumanah | rlyshw: glad to help |
| 23:41.52 | sumanah | rlyshw: you may find this page http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch014_communication-best-practices/ helpful |
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