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| 18:16.13 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2014 mentoring organization applications start on 3 February. Please check out our timeline for more info: goo.gl/Anraxm |
| 18:16.39 | vultraz_old | not a 172p I hope |
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| 18:19.35 | Ivanovic | why not? |
| 18:19.47 | Ivanovic | nice and cosy for orgs who were in only one year with one student |
| 18:20.55 | vultraz_old | You would be apt to get run over by the other guys' A380 ;) |
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| 18:21.16 | Slurpee | vultraz_old, Ivanovic - googleplex is the same location as Shore Line Amphitheater. In the past the Bridge School Benefit concert at Shoreline as been same weekend as GSoC Mentor summit. Two years ago after the festivities ended on Sunday night at Google, I walked over to the music festival :) http://bridgeschool.org/concert/ |
| 18:22.31 | Ivanovic | Slurpee: in the past the people split into groups to discuss "Open source stuff" and had rooms for this |
| 18:22.43 | Ivanovic | with a huge number of people this is a little more difficult to handle |
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| 18:24.25 | vultraz_old | If there's a concert next door too, well, I think that would be quite a sight :P |
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| 18:29.00 | vultraz_old | Unfortunately not one I will get to see |
| 18:29.22 | Slurpee | Which orgs are you from? Drupal here. |
| 18:29.27 | Slurpee | Any students looking for projects? |
| 18:31.17 | vultraz_old | I'm involved in Wesnoth, but only ever done GCI and not GSoC |
| 18:31.39 | vultraz_old | Not eligible for the latter yet |
| 18:34.13 | Slurpee | vultraz_old, did you just finish gci? |
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| 18:35.26 | vultraz_old | Didn't do it this year. Complications. Plus I believe wesnoth did not participate this time |
| 18:35.27 | Ivanovic | Slurpee: we (at wesnoth) were not in GCI this year |
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| 18:37.03 | vultraz_old | ^ |
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| 18:42.46 | carols_ | 17 minutes to go... |
| 18:42.52 | carols_ | gets excited |
| 18:42.59 | carols_ | i'm looking forward to the org apps this year |
| 18:44.32 | carols_ | hope we get some new faces too :-) |
| 18:47.10 | phant0mas | any ideas which orgs will submit projects? |
| 18:47.20 | carols_ | not yet |
| 18:47.25 | carols_ | i haven't heard from anyone for sure |
| 18:47.29 | carols_ | have you, phant0mas? |
| 18:48.00 | Slurpee | Drupal is submitting :) |
| 18:48.05 | carols_ | awesome! |
| 18:48.07 | carols_ | that's one :-) |
| 18:48.17 | meflin | Python will be submitting |
| 18:48.24 | carols_ | that's two :-) |
| 18:48.25 | phant0mas | No idea , but I can presume gnu will submit some for sure |
| 18:48.40 | Slurpee | We have been planning out ideas and just had a great time in GCI. Hoping to keep momentum moving forward. |
| 18:51.01 | carols_ | awesome. |
| 18:51.04 | carols_ | glad to hear it, Slurpee |
| 18:52.18 | Ivanovic | carols_: uhm, i told you 1h ago that wesnoth will submit once proposals are written... |
| 18:52.27 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 18:52.31 | carols_ | Ivanovic: sorry :-) |
| 18:52.39 | carols_ | i've had a lot going on this morning :-) |
| 18:52.41 | Ivanovic | but hey, you are deep down in the computer world |
| 18:52.47 | Ivanovic | there you start counting at zero |
| 18:52.48 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 18:52.50 | carols_ | indeed i am |
| 18:53.20 | Slurpee | Mondays... |
| 18:53.46 | Ivanovic | Slurpee: the day after FOSDEM, that is more than just regular mondays... |
| 18:53.52 | Slurpee | o i c |
| 18:54.35 | Ivanovic | even though i took a day off i basically got nothing done (besides preparing me some food) |
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| 18:55.54 | Slurpee | Only a few more minutes until we can see application :) |
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| 18:59.21 | carols_ | only one minute according to my watch :-) |
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| 19:00.10 | Slurpee | I see it :) |
| 19:00.18 | ilv | anyone from sft cern? hope they apply this year :-) |
| 19:01.38 | carols_ | ilv: that sure was cool when we had that student at the lab when they discovered the higgs boson :-) |
| 19:02.04 | scorche|sh | aaaaaannnnnnnnnnnd they are off! |
| 19:02.13 | carols_ | :-) |
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| 19:03.03 | scorche|sh | carols_: any submissions yet? has X applied yet? What about Y? |
| 19:03.12 | scorche|sh | there - now that those questions have been asked, no one else need ask ;) |
| 19:03.14 | carols_ | scorche|sh: :-P |
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| 19:06.05 | Slurpee | Drupal has a GSoC 2014 profile :) |
| 19:07.07 | carols_ | yay :-) |
| 19:08.19 | Slurpee | Reviewed the application and now back to organizing our idea list :) |
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| 19:12.09 | carols_ | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 19:15.31 | brlcad | waits for the backup admin to make his dang profile |
| 19:16.06 | carols_ | sounds like a shoddy backup admin ;-) |
| 19:16.15 | carols_ | just kidding :-) |
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| 19:17.09 | Slurpee | brlcad, how did gci turn out for you? |
| 19:17.23 | carols_ | is curious about that too |
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| 19:22.25 | *** topic/#gsoc by carols_ -> Google Summer of Code 2014 mentoring organization applications are now open. The deadline is 14 February at 19:00 UTC. Please check out our timeline for more info: goo.gl/Anraxm |
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| 19:26.08 | brlcad | carols_: do you know if we're able to modify the org profile information after hitting the Submit button or, because now it's a two-part form, whether we won't? |
| 19:26.28 | carols_ | brlcad: i'm pretty sure you can modify it, but don't quote me, ask the melange developers :-) |
| 19:27.17 | Slurpee | brlcad, there are notes saying the applications can be edited until deadline. |
| 19:27.39 | Slurpee | I assume you can freely update/edit the application and it wont' actually be reviewed until after deadline? |
| 19:28.04 | brlcad | sure, but is the org profile (which is technically prior to the application) editable post submission |
| 19:28.38 | brlcad | carols_: thanks, will do ... or will just make sure we're done |
| 19:28.41 | carols_ | :-) |
| 19:28.48 | carols_ | they changed it all around this year |
| 19:29.05 | downey | Slurpee: "You will be able to edit your application after you have submitted it until the organization application deadline on 14 February, 2014 at 19:00 UTC." |
| 19:29.18 | downey | brlcad: ^ |
| 19:29.31 | carols_ | downey: brlcad is speaking specifically about the org profile. |
| 19:29.39 | carols_ | which is the new addition this year |
| 19:29.41 | downey | That's where the above text appears. |
| 19:29.57 | carols_ | fair enough :-) i'm pretty sure it's changeable. |
| 19:30.01 | carols_ | but best to check. |
| 19:30.10 | downey | If not, I'm sure there will be folks ready to complain :D |
| 19:30.25 | Slurpee | Org profile was part of gci and we were able to edit it. |
| 19:30.48 | Slurpee | I can go back and edit the gsoc 2014 profile too |
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| 19:34.47 | carols_ | brlcad: nathanielmanista can help you. |
| 19:34.54 | brlcad | okay, able to confirm that -- it appears as a tab on top so you can go from profile to questionnaire |
| 19:35.04 | carols_ | and back again |
| 19:35.06 | carols_ | right? :-) |
| 19:35.14 | brlcad | yep, it's all good :) |
| 19:35.17 | carols_ | cool |
| 19:35.23 | carols_ | that's what i thought |
| 19:35.26 | brlcad | thanks :) |
| 19:35.28 | carols_ | but i wasn't 100% sure |
| 19:35.37 | brlcad | too, but that's a risky click ;) |
| 19:36.09 | carols_ | true true. |
| 19:36.29 | ThomasWaldmann | moin :) |
| 19:36.34 | nathanielmanista | Yes, the org profile should be more flexibly and more sanely editable. We don't want accidentally incorrect information locked in forever or anything. :-) |
| 19:36.55 | ThomasWaldmann | carols_: is there a diff for the TOS (2014-2013)? :D |
| 19:36.58 | downey | excellent |
| 19:37.04 | carols_ | ThomasWaldmann: nope! no changes to the TOS |
| 19:37.09 | brlcad | interesting, you cannot change the backup admin field |
| 19:37.17 | ThomasWaldmann | ah, good |
| 19:37.38 | carols_ | ThomasWaldmann: but the same restrictions from last year are still in effect...mentors have to be 18 and all that. |
| 19:37.58 | brlcad | so, some of us will have to grow up? |
| 19:38.06 | carols_ | brlcad: it's relative ;-) |
| 19:38.11 | brlcad | whew |
| 19:38.20 | carols_ | i know. |
| 19:39.20 | carols_ | brlcad: did you submit the questionnaire yet? |
| 19:39.23 | carols_ | not trying to rush you |
| 19:39.30 | carols_ | but i wanted to check something once you do |
| 19:39.51 | ThomasWaldmann | note: profile submission worked if there is no error msg. even if it looks as it did nothing. |
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| 19:40.05 | carols_ | ThomasWaldmann: a great complaint to lodge with nathanielmanista |
| 19:40.25 | ThomasWaldmann | nathanielmanista: ^ :) |
| 19:40.33 | brlcad | carols_: no not yet |
| 19:40.42 | carols_ | brlcad: will you just let me know whenever you do? |
| 19:40.44 | carols_ | no rush :-) |
| 19:41.05 | brlcad | sure, can do ... but it will be incomplete |
| 19:41.15 | carols_ | sure, i'm not assessing the application yet :-) |
| 19:41.53 | nathanielmanista | ThomasWaldmann: You're saying that there should be some positive feedback to the user reporting that their profile was created, and that there currently is no such feedback? |
| 19:42.06 | brlcad | we're applying as a slightly bigger CAD umbrella this year and I've some information to gather about them for our app |
| 19:42.16 | carols_ | brlcad: fair enough. and cool :-) |
| 19:42.30 | ThomasWaldmann | someone from django/psf here? |
| 19:43.11 | brlcad | yeah, it's been a great discussion, getting some collaboration going, prioritizing things we can share amongst each other |
| 19:43.22 | carols_ | awesome. |
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| 19:44.32 | brlcad | coincidentally, this year marks our 10th year anniversary being open source too :) |
| 19:44.45 | carols_ | wow, nice |
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| 19:47.46 | carols_ | brlcad: nevermind! |
| 19:47.51 | carols_ | i fixed it myself |
| 19:47.52 | carols_ | :-) |
| 19:48.04 | carols_ | you can go back to toiling on your application |
| 19:48.28 | brlcad | carols_: hah, okay |
| 19:48.37 | carols_ | :-) |
| 19:48.38 | brlcad | interesting, the Preferences tab now appears |
| 19:48.50 | brlcad | didn't before, just two tabs (now three) |
| 19:49.09 | carols_ | brlcad: i say file a bug :-) |
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| 19:49.41 | brlcad | carols_: is it a bug? it's the #slots form |
| 19:49.44 | edsiper | carols_, who i can ping for a possible melange issue (backup admin have account but the system do not allow to see or edit profile) |
| 19:49.57 | carols_ | brlcad: it didn't appear before and it does now? that seems like a bug to me. |
| 19:49.58 | brlcad | how many we require/want and score |
| 19:50.03 | carols_ | edsiper: the melange developers |
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| 19:51.53 | brlcad | carols_: ah, it doesn't persist the form .. probably just shouldn't be showing the tab --- I'll send them a note |
| 19:52.01 | carols_ | brlcad: please do :-) |
| 19:52.18 | brlcad | carols_: so did a student pre-auth step get implemented in time? please say yes :) |
| 19:52.39 | edsiper | carols_, any nickname ?, #melange is a bit quiet at the moment |
| 19:52.42 | carols_ | brlcad: i believe one *will* be implemented, but again, that's a question for nathanielmanista |
| 19:52.44 | brlcad | (rather, THERE'S STILL TIME) :) |
| 19:52.47 | carols_ | edsiper: sure, nathanielmanista |
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| 19:53.00 | brlcad | haha, k |
| 19:53.17 | edsiper | nathanielmanista, hi, i just posted a problem on #melange |
| 19:53.22 | brlcad | nathanielmanista: please say it'll happen :) (student preauth) |
| 19:54.17 | carols_ | brlcad: it's already reflected in the FAQs for students, so if it's not implemented i'm going to have to eat my hat :-) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#2._Whos_eligible_to_participate_as_a |
| 19:54.18 | brlcad | carols_: never mind about that "bug", I'm an idiot |
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| 19:54.26 | carols_ | brlcad: ok :-) |
| 19:54.40 | brlcad | cool |
| 19:54.51 | brlcad | it's written down, it must be true :) |
| 19:54.57 | carols_ | excatly. |
| 19:55.00 | carols_ | exactly |
| 19:55.02 | carols_ | ha :-) |
| 19:55.12 | downey | i read it on the internet... |
| 19:59.35 | ThomasWaldmann | waits for backup admin to appear...... |
| 19:59.53 | leroy_ | carols_: I've seen, that scala-team participated in previous GSOC. Any information about if they will in this year? |
| 20:03.28 | carols_ | leroy_: have you asked them if they're planning to apply? |
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| 20:05.57 | fcarbogn | Hi, someone knows if the organization profile provided last year can be reused/edited for GSoC 2014? |
| 20:06.09 | carols_ | fcarbogn: nope. you have to make a new one every year. |
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| 20:06.17 | carols_ | good thing you've got almost two weeks to do it in. |
| 20:07.20 | fcarbogn | OK, I'll start the cut&paste, thanks for the quick reply |
| 20:07.32 | carols_ | yw |
| 20:07.46 | carols_ | you're welcome to file a feature request :-) |
| 20:07.55 | carols_ | maybe a melange gsoc student will find that an interesting project. |
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| 20:11.03 | apsdehal | Hi! I wanted to know can I apply for GSoC from two different organizations? |
| 20:11.16 | carols_ | apsdehal: you want to be an org admin representing two different orgs? |
| 20:11.42 | apsdehal | No I am student, |
| 20:12.00 | carols_ | apsdehal: then you want to submit two proposals to two different orgs, you mean? |
| 20:12.18 | apsdehal | Yes Thats exactly what I meant |
| 20:12.23 | carols_ | apsdehal: sure http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page#6._Can_a_student_submit_more_than_one |
| 20:12.47 | leroy_ | carols_: oh, I've just found your message, no, I haven't ask them... |
| 20:13.09 | carols_ | leroy_: well, whether they apply or not would be the first step in determining if they'll participate this year :-) |
| 20:13.11 | apsdehal | On what basis proposal will selected from the two? |
| 20:13.31 | carols_ | apsdehal: well, each organization has its own selection criteria for students. i'd recommend you ask them. |
| 20:15.10 | apsdehal | No I mean if both of the organizations select my proposal, you will select only one among them? , or organizations will come to know that I have applied to some other organization also. |
| 20:15.50 | carols_ | apsdehal: it's up to them. they will decide between themselves who will get you, possibly after asking you, and possibly not. so don't apply for an organization you don't want to possibly work with. |
| 20:16.13 | nadph | another student question: are the start/end dates ever malleable (for folks from quarter-system or southern hemisphere institutions)? |
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| 20:16.42 | apsdehal | carols_: Thanks a lot for help :) |
| 20:16.45 | carols_ | nadph: i know a lot of students use the community bonding period in different ways. some actually start coding then. so that's malleable. |
| 20:16.55 | carols_ | nadph: you should ask the organization. |
| 20:17.06 | nadph | neat. thanks! |
| 20:17.08 | astrofrog | Hi everyone - quick question: if our project participated in GSoC last year, but under an umbrella organization as opposed to being our own organization, do we select that we are not a veteran organization? |
| 20:17.20 | carols_ | astrofrog: no, you don't select veteran. |
| 20:17.23 | carols_ | good question :-) |
| 20:17.26 | nadph | much appreciated carols_ |
| 20:17.31 | carols_ | that's one of the few original ones i've heard in a while |
| 20:17.31 | astrofrog | thanks carols_! |
| 20:17.43 | astrofrog | haha ok, glad to add variety :) |
| 20:17.55 | carols_ | astrofrog: however, absolutely *do* mention in the application that you've participated before under an umbrella and make sure they'll vouch for you :-) |
| 20:17.59 | carols_ | it'll help the application a lot |
| 20:18.48 | astrofrog | carols_: ok, thanks! now maybe a question that you've had asked before - once the org profile is submitted, can we go back to it and edit it even if we've started working on the questionnaire part? |
| 20:19.02 | carols_ | astrofrog: yes you can, until the deadline |
| 20:19.10 | carols_ | that one's answered in the application, so much less original :-) |
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| 20:20.16 | astrofrog | carols_: oops, thanks, and sorry about that :) |
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| 20:21.44 | carols_ | np |
| 20:21.48 | carols_ | it's what i'm here for. |
| 20:22.28 | carols_ | my job is mostly cutting and pasting from the FAQs. |
| 20:23.12 | VarunAgw | ;) |
| 20:23.43 | scorche|sh | carols_: but thats what gsocbot is for! |
| 20:24.03 | carols_ | scorche|sh: i agree. |
| 20:24.05 | carols_ | and yet. |
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| 20:45.41 | carols_ | serve some tea and coffee |
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| 20:51.58 | carols_ | got quiet in here all of a sudden, i guess everyone went off to create their org apps :-) |
| 20:52.14 | astrofrog | maybe everyone went to read the FAQ ;) |
| 20:52.28 | carols_ | maybe so :-) |
| 20:53.35 | ThomasWaldmann | finished, mostly :D |
| 20:54.00 | Ivanovic | just sent a mail to the wesnoth folks that we need to get our stuff together now that we decided yesterday we want to participate |
| 20:54.01 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 20:54.34 | ThomasWaldmann | is there a panel that lists orgs one could vouch for? ;) |
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| 20:56.36 | carols_ | ThomasWaldmann: no, you have to do it the old fashioned way and actually ask them if they applied :-) |
| 20:56.45 | carols_ | besides, isn't it they who should be asking you to vouch? :-) |
| 20:57.24 | ThomasWaldmann | well, that assumes all have knowledge of the others doing applications |
| 20:57.30 | carols_ | true. |
| 20:57.37 | carols_ | it assumes you talk to one another. |
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| 20:58.26 | carols_ | ThomasWaldmann: besides, we don't announce who's applied for the program, even to other applicants. |
| 20:58.30 | ThomasWaldmann | uses a lot of other projects meanwhile, but I don't know their gsoc plans |
| 20:58.33 | gevaerts | But we went into software because that way we didn't have to talk to people! |
| 20:58.51 | ThomasWaldmann | gevaerts: :P |
| 21:01.26 | Ivanovic | gevaerts: some might say that sending mails and chatting in irc or even posting in forums could be seen as some form of "talk to people" |
| 21:01.36 | Ivanovic | okay, of course you can also just /query some bots... |
| 21:02.00 | gevaerts | Ivanovic: don't say that! I might get too embarassed to use irc now! |
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| 21:02.30 | Ivanovic | ohoh, i fear you understood my evil plan... |
| 21:03.01 | Ivanovic | that was my grand scheme to get this chan to quiet down (preparation for the "why were we not accepted" stuff, no matter if orgs or students) |
| 21:03.03 | Ivanovic | ;) |
| 21:03.10 | gevaerts | Evil! |
| 21:04.03 | carols_ | has decided she's taking breaks during the rejected org irc meeting this year |
| 21:04.11 | ThomasWaldmann | hehe |
| 21:04.33 | carols_ | you laugh. that's a really terrible day for me. |
| 21:04.38 | gevaerts | *day*? |
| 21:04.45 | gevaerts | I'd expect it to take a week this year :) |
| 21:04.53 | carols_ | we'll see |
| 21:05.21 | astrofrog | Actually, I'm curious how that day would work - how can you discuss applications with all rejected orgs at the same time? |
| 21:05.33 | gevaerts | astrofrog: there's a queue |
| 21:05.49 | carols_ | astrofrog: i do them one at a time. |
| 21:05.54 | carols_ | and it takes about 8 hours. |
| 21:06.00 | astrofrog | oh wow |
| 21:06.04 | ThomasWaldmann | omg. |
| 21:06.05 | carols_ | i know. |
| 21:06.10 | ThomasWaldmann | now feels the pain. |
| 21:06.11 | carols_ | my sentiments exactly. |
| 21:06.15 | downey | is anyone else having problems to log in to melange? |
| 21:06.28 | carols_ | downey: i'm not. but maybe i'm a special case. |
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| 21:06.38 | downey | carols_: won't it take 10% longer this year to review rejected orgs? :-) / :-( |
| 21:06.54 | carols_ | downey: yes it will :-( well, that assumes we get more applications this year |
| 21:06.58 | carols_ | which i don't know for sure that we will |
| 21:07.08 | carols_ | so it could take less time since we have more space for more orgs this year |
| 21:07.15 | gevaerts | downey: I suspect the rejection meeting is actually the main reason for accepting more orgs this year :) |
| 21:07.25 | carols_ | gevaerts: you're onto my scheming :-) |
| 21:07.28 | downey | longer rejection meeting == more pizza? |
| 21:07.40 | downey | heh |
| 21:07.46 | carols_ | downey: i should tell the accepted orgs they have to send me pizza during the meeting ;-) |
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| 21:08.33 | gevaerts | carols_: make sure you have enough people to offer some to if you do that :) |
| 21:08.40 | carols_ | good idea :-) |
| 21:09.27 | abhgangwar | where can i find the logs of this channel ?? |
| 21:09.35 | carols_ | !logs |
| 21:09.42 | carols_ | oh sad gsocbot :-( |
| 21:09.42 | downey | makes a note to order a few pizzas from palomino's |
| 21:10.13 | gevaerts | abhgangwar: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 21:10.25 | abhgangwar | thanks |
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| 21:11.18 | ThomasWaldmann | .oO(german mainstream tv about whistleblowers now) |
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| 21:54.21 | carols | finally got my nick back! |
| 21:54.26 | carols | feeling so much better. |
| 21:55.57 | hkaiser | carols: what can we do to avoid being denied as an organization again this year (I registered our project under 'stellar')? |
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| 21:56.47 | carols | hkaiser: have you done all the things suggested in the FAQs and the manuals? do you have a stellar ideas list? do you have an organization vouching for you? |
| 21:57.07 | carols | can you bend the laws of physics to make all the applicants fit into the number of slots allocated to how many organizations we accept this year? |
| 21:57.21 | hkaiser | we did all that except for having an org vouching for us |
| 21:57.41 | hkaiser | lol, good one! |
| 21:57.47 | carols | there you go :-) |
| 21:58.52 | hkaiser | carols: what does it mean 'to have an org vouching'? |
| 21:59.30 | carols | hkaiser: having an organization that's already participated or a googled who can tell us you should be accepted. |
| 22:00.03 | hkaiser | carols: do you mean the GSoC admin of that organization getting in contact with you? |
| 22:00.20 | carols | hkaiser: no, just putting it on the application. |
| 22:01.14 | hkaiser | carols: well, I'm deeply involved with Boost (GSoC participant for years) can I vouch for our project myself? :-P |
| 22:01.15 | Ivanovic | hkaiser: and in advance asking that org if they would vouch for you |
| 22:01.32 | Ivanovic | works best if you know some other devs that somehow contribute to your project or are regular users |
| 22:01.34 | carols | hkaiser: why don't you just have boost vouch for you on their application? |
| 22:01.48 | carols | hkaiser: or are they not planning to apply this year? |
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| 22:01.58 | hkaiser | carols: what does 'vouching' mean for the other organization? |
| 22:02.08 | hkaiser | why would they want to do that, why not? |
| 22:02.11 | carols | hkaiser: it means they're putting their good name on the line for you :-) |
| 22:02.24 | hkaiser | ok, understand |
| 22:02.31 | carols | :-) |
| 22:03.02 | hkaiser | Boost will apply this year for sure (and I'll be mentoring again, as I did for years now) |
| 22:03.07 | carols | great |
| 22:03.18 | carols | then they can just put it in that section of their application. |
| 22:03.31 | hkaiser | ok, I'll talk to them |
| 22:03.34 | carols | great |
| 22:03.41 | hkaiser | carols: thanks |
| 22:03.44 | carols | yw |
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| 22:18.19 | edsiper | hkaiser, |
| 22:18.42 | hkaiser | here |
| 22:19.40 | sidthekid | !logs |
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| 22:37.51 | edsiper | hkaiser, i sent you a private message |
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| 22:52.34 | carols | serves some tea |
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| 23:20.07 | carols | hey MatthewWilkes |
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| 23:20.10 | carols | long time no see :-) |
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