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| 13:10.32 | harshadura | !next |
| 13:10.35 | gsocbot | harshadura: "next" is (#1) Students begin coding for their Google Summer of Code projects, or (#2) Google begins issuing initial student payments provided tax forms are on file and students are in good standing with their communities. |
| 13:11.53 | Achillion | poor bot needs an update |
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| 13:56.16 | sunu | !studentguide |
| 13:56.17 | gsocbot | sunu: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
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| 15:47.47 | nemo | koda|web: oh you're here. did you ask already? |
| 15:48.21 | nemo | Eh. Apparently AFK |
| 15:48.25 | koda|web | not yet |
| 15:48.33 | nemo | So. We were wondering if students still own the copyright on code they contribute for GSoC |
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| 15:48.42 | nemo | we are having trouble contacting someone for a relicense operation |
| 15:49.03 | nemo | I don't recall anything explicit about signing over copyright in the GSoC terms |
| 15:49.10 | gevaerts | If they don't explicitely assign it to someone else, yes |
| 15:49.18 | nemo | :-/ |
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| 15:53.27 | brlcad | nemo: each org is different and often have that spelled out in their developer documentation |
| 15:54.07 | nemo | brlcad: yeah, we didn't think to do that |
| 15:54.26 | brlcad | some require assignment (e.g., gnu), some just require unlimited rights to be provided (e.g., apache), some let them keep it but require their license be applied |
| 15:54.35 | nemo | I'm surprised there are any orgs that allow at-will relicensing |
| 15:54.54 | nemo | brlcad: well. we explicitly list the codebase as GPLv2 and all contributions as GPLv2 |
| 15:55.04 | nemo | brlcad: the problem is doing a license shift which presumably needs consent of everyone |
| 15:55.21 | nemo | and. well, student who vanished off the face of the earth 3 years ago, but still had some valuable code |
| 15:55.30 | |Kev| | Such is the pain of relicensing. |
| 15:55.40 | nemo | yep |
| 15:55.48 | koda|web | brlcad: hey were you at the summit last year? i think i met you |
| 15:56.21 | brlcad | ah, yeah you're in a world of hurt there unless you had it written at least implicitly somewhere that you have the right to relicense their work or that they're assigning their copyright |
| 15:56.39 | brlcad | koda|web: yep, I've been to a half-dozen+ summits .. awesome times :) |
| 15:57.33 | brlcad | I assume these are entire files in question, not just updates to existing code |
| 15:57.41 | koda|web | brlcad: well that's easier to manage but also slightly unfair to students |
| 15:57.50 | brlcad | did they provide files with license or copyright claims? |
| 15:57.58 | koda|web | also relic don't happen so often |
| 15:58.01 | brlcad | what's unfair? |
| 15:58.31 | koda|web | brlcad: requesting that copyright is assigned to the org... what's mine is mine :p |
| 15:59.16 | brlcad | ah, I see it the other way around |
| 15:59.17 | gevaerts | Don't do copyright assingnment without first studying the issue properly |
| 15:59.21 | brlcad | it's about being a team player |
| 15:59.52 | gevaerts | Well yes :) |
| 15:59.56 | brlcad | it's for the good of the team (the code/project) to assign, it's not about them |
| 16:00.12 | gevaerts | That depends on how the project is organised |
| 16:00.15 | koda|web | true... until the team doesn't become evil :) |
| 16:00.16 | |Kev| | I think this sounds like a discussion tarpit, personally. |
| 16:00.20 | brlcad | absolutely |
| 16:00.33 | gevaerts | i.e. is it possible for a small group to take over and take things proprietary? |
| 16:00.35 | koda|web | |Kev|: yes, ain't that fun :p |
| 16:00.36 | brlcad | the only unfair direction that I can see happening is one where licensing becomes more restrictive |
| 16:01.49 | koda|web | like with gpl3? /troll |
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| 16:02.32 | |Kev| | Althought one could reasonably argue that the relicense doesn't change the license under which everyone already has the code. |
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| 16:02.46 | |Kev| | And therefore even going to a more restrictive license doesn't hurt much. |
| 16:02.53 | |Kev| | I'm not sure I hold that position, mind. |
| 16:02.54 | brlcad | if that's your progression, from 2 to 3, and you didn't include the "or any later version" clause .. I'd say yeah, gplv3 would technically be more restrictive |
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| 16:03.19 | |Kev| | brlcad: Even if you did include the 'or later', GPLv3 is still more restrictive. |
| 16:03.24 | |Kev| | As it doesn't let you go back to v2. |
| 16:03.46 | koda|web | yes so far we are gplv2 only, we were wondering if it made sense to relic some parts in lgpl2 |
| 16:04.11 | paultag | |Kev|: what's your problem with GPLv3? |
| 16:04.19 | brlcad | |Kev|: sure, but in that case they legally would have the option despite the author (as does any other user) |
| 16:04.26 | gevaerts | thinks that "relic" sounds like "obsolete" |
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| 16:04.55 | |Kev| | paultag: I don't think I said I had a problem with it. I said that it was more restrictive to say "v3" than "v2 or later". |
| 16:05.07 | brlcad | koda|web: ah, so in that direction, I would say that is less restrictive (and hence NOT unfair to the original author) |
| 16:05.09 | paultag | |Kev|: I mean, why do you consider GPLv3 more restrictive? |
| 16:05.22 | |Kev| | paultag: Because "B" is always more restrictive than "A or B". |
| 16:05.24 | paultag | |Kev|: From an FSF point-of-view, it actually prevents restricting the user's freedom |
| 16:05.35 | paultag | |Kev|: which is what we're doing here :) |
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| 16:05.46 | paultag | |Kev|: which clauses do you see as more restrictive? |
| 16:05.51 | paultag | I'm actually curious |
| 16:06.03 | |Kev| | I think you're missing my point, or I made it awfully. |
| 16:06.23 | paultag | I think I'm missing it |
| 16:06.25 | |Kev| | Saying "You can only use this code under the v3" is more restrictive than "You may use this code under the v2 or the v3 (or later)". |
| 16:06.33 | |Kev| | Irrespective of the content of both licenses. |
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| 16:06.42 | brlcad | paultag: strictly speaking, it voids patent claims, so it could be viewed as more restrictive to anyone holding a patent |
| 16:06.59 | paultag | Ah, so you're saying the GPLv3 isn't compatable with GPLv2(hard) so that you can't link |
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| 16:07.27 | paultag | brlcad: it doesn't void them, it allows the reciever of the software to use them in the context of that work, which protects people, not restricts |
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| 16:07.42 | paultag | we should think in terms of users not programmers |
| 16:07.48 | paultag | free software is useless if we don't have free users |
| 16:07.54 | |Kev| | paultag: I think you're reading more into it than I said. But this is not important. My comment had nothing to do with my stance on the GPL (which is itself probably not what the FSF would like my stance to be). |
| 16:08.02 | paultag | |Kev|: ok :) |
| 16:08.24 | gevaerts | s/license/set/, s/v3/A/, V2/B/ :) |
| 16:08.34 | brlcad | koda|web: so yeah, I think that's a low-risk route but that's just my personal opinion, certainly not a legal position, but a risk I'd be willing to take in that situation because it's in the spirit of the original contribution but increasing the user base |
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| 16:09.13 | paultag | right, time for lunch :) |
| 16:09.24 | brlcad | paultag: I was going for brevity, to me your explanation says it voids them (for that context) |
| 16:09.41 | brlcad | and the restriction is on audience, regardless of the protection |
| 16:09.54 | koda|web | brlcad: well lgpl has... less freedom, so from certain points of view it's a restriction too |
| 16:10.03 | tierra | |Kev|: (on the "relicense doesn't change the license of existing copies though...) relicensing is really creating a derivative work, for which you'd be required to keep existing copyrighted code under the same license... definately not something you could do under any copyleft license, unless you did do copyright assignment - so yes, I also certainly don't believe in that position either |
| 16:10.30 | brlcad | again, at least my definition of restriction for the purpose of considering whether it's "unfair" to the student is one of audience |
| 16:10.40 | |Kev| | tierra: The question was whether assignment was fair, for that line. |
| 16:10.43 | brlcad | taking the code proprietary would be unfair, limited/no audience |
| 16:11.25 | brlcad | taking the code to lgpl or even mit would not, imho, as the same audience (or larger) retains access (to the student's code) |
| 16:11.40 | tierra | could you guys imagine a relicense to AGPL? heh |
| 16:11.40 | brlcad | might not philosophically align, but then that's the low-risk aspect |
| 16:11.52 | tierra | (from any GPL) |
| 16:11.54 | |Kev| | brlcad: A, but under the 'wider audience' criterion, is dual GPL+commercial better than GPL? |
| 16:12.04 | |Kev| | I'm just stoking the fire, please don't take that seriously. |
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| 16:12.12 | brlcad | better? no -- same audience |
| 16:12.40 | brlcad | in terms of availability to the code |
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| 16:20.02 | brlcad | offers carols some tea or coffee and a hearty 'good morning'! |
| 16:20.09 | carols | thanks brlcad |
| 16:20.11 | downey | mmm, tea |
| 16:20.13 | carols | good morning :-) |
| 16:20.38 | downey | boils an extra pot for today |
| 16:20.44 | carols | downey: how is it that you and I were within 50 feet of each other all weekend and didn't get to talk? :-) |
| 16:21.17 | downey | carols: lots of cat herding this week - we have 9 people on our team here that are newbies this week :) |
| 16:21.26 | carols | downey: well, that's cool. |
| 16:21.28 | downey | carols: will definitely be at the BoF - it's actually wednesday not tonight, right? |
| 16:21.38 | carols | downey: right, wednesday. |
| 16:21.42 | downey | carols: great |
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| 16:50.24 | carols | serves some more tea and coffee |
| 16:51.02 | downey | passes around some bacon maple doughnuts |
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| 16:51.23 | Achillion | O_O |
| 16:51.25 | Achillion | no |
| 16:51.31 | Achillion | not touching bacon doughnuts |
| 16:52.25 | Achillion | Sorry downey |
| 16:52.36 | gevaerts | forgives Achillion and takes two |
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| 16:52.43 | Achillion | :) |
| 16:52.50 | downey | :) |
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| 16:54.56 | carols | mmm doughnuts :-) very tasty |
| 16:55.10 | carols | are those from voodoo, downey? |
| 16:55.25 | downey | but of course :) |
| 16:55.37 | carols | excellent. |
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| 18:13.00 | carols | serves some more tea and coffee |
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| 18:15.01 | Achillion | that's a lot of coffee |
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| 18:15.14 | Achillion | goes into hyper-mode |
| 18:15.51 | MrDHat | !next |
| 18:15.52 | gsocbot | MrDHat: "next" is (#1) Students begin coding for their Google Summer of Code projects, or (#2) Google begins issuing initial student payments provided tax forms are on file and students are in good standing with their communities. |
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| 18:15.58 | ansimionescu | Tea _and_ coffee? :O |
| 18:16.09 | ansimionescu | You're living a dangerous life |
| 18:16.37 | Achillion | I sustained myself purely on coffee today |
| 18:16.44 | Achillion | "sustain" sounds wrong |
| 18:16.46 | Achillion | you get the idea |
| 18:17.22 | ansimionescu | Quit coffee a week ago. I started feeling less tired since day 1 (#truestory #yolo etc) |
| 18:17.39 | white | thanks carols for tea |
| 18:17.47 | carols | yw white |
| 18:18.01 | ansimionescu | Oh, it was for us? How sweet *blushes* |
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| 18:22.51 | nemo | Achillion: coffee is apparently the main source of antioxidants for americans :) |
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| 18:24.22 | Achillion | so I've heard |
| 18:25.01 | nemo | Achillion: also protects against radiation damage, so you're totally set if someone sets off a nuke downtown |
| 18:25.28 | nemo | you can stock your Fallout 2 shelter w/ Radaway aka Jolt cola |
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| 20:21.20 | chro | Do I need to submit any files for the midterm evaluation ? |
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| 20:21.50 | chro | I mean, code files |
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| 20:22.30 | ansimionescu | chro: don't think so. You should be able to link to a repo though if you want (you do use version control, don't you?) |
| 20:23.09 | chro | yes, ok I will do that |
| 20:26.03 | chro | when does the maintenance fees from the card start to apply? |
| 20:28.05 | chro | will my mentor be able to see my answers to my questions like "Please rate the quality of interactions and communications with your mentor. (Consider your communications with him/her as well as his/her responses.)" ? |
| 20:29.08 | carols | chro: only if you mentor is an org admin as well. |
| 20:29.26 | chro | ok, ty |
| 20:29.29 | carols | yw |
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| 22:41.17 | odaolacak | what is goign on here ? |
| 22:42.51 | odaolacak | anyone here ? |
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| 22:44.13 | odaolacak | ok whateever can i use java while i developing somethink? |
| 22:44.36 | meflin | this channel is about google summer of code, please restrict you talk to that topic |
| 22:45.55 | odaolacak | ok @meflin me to i ask about google summer of code |
| 22:46.36 | meflin | I have not seen any such question |
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| 23:27.50 | odaolacak | are there anyone from turkey? |
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| 23:31.02 | odaolacak | türk var mı türk |
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