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| 08:04.31 | Guest6934 | i havnt received welcome package from google |
| 08:05.06 | Guest6934 | are they shipped? |
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| 08:05.21 | kai | Guest6934: it's not the 21st yet, so don't worry |
| 08:05.36 | Guest6934 | ok thanks |
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| 11:43.37 | cs648 | Can someone point me to a page with info on the payment/enrollment forms we need to submit? |
| 11:43.50 | cs648 | I'm struggling to find any details on them |
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| 11:50.33 | harshadura | !next |
| 11:50.33 | gsocbot | harshadura: "next" is (#1) Students begin coding for their Google Summer of Code projects, or (#2) Google begins issuing initial student payments provided tax forms are on file and students are in good standing with their communities. |
| 11:50.43 | harshadura | !logs |
| 11:50.45 | gsocbot | harshadura: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 14:00.28 | disdi | has anyone received welcome package? |
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| 14:01.07 | disdi | has anyone received welcome package? |
| 14:01.22 | deklerkmc | Nope, I haven't gotten anything - when should they be delivered by? |
| 14:01.30 | deklerkmc | Which country are you in btw? |
| 14:03.37 | disdi | India you? |
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| 14:04.52 | kshitij8_ | !log |
| 14:04.54 | gsocbot | kshitij8_: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. |
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| 14:06.05 | disdi | has anyone received welcome package? |
| 14:07.19 | deklerkmc | South Africa… I read online that we shouldn't email Carol unless we have not received them by 21 June… So yeah I guess they should have been here by today |
| 14:07.53 | deklerkmc | If I haven't received something in 2 or 3 days time, I'll mail her |
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| 14:09.25 | disdi | me too....I was told last time the come much before the scheduled time? |
| 14:09.58 | disdi | I just wanted to make sure ....it wasn't something to do with the custom people in my country |
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| 14:11.33 | blast007 | kshitij8_: try !logs |
| 14:12.01 | kshitij8_ | blast007 got the link. thanks anyways :-) |
| 14:12.05 | blast007 | :) |
| 14:12.08 | paultag | !studentpacks |
| 14:12.08 | gsocbot | paultag: "studentpacks" is The GSoC student welcome packs were sent out very recently, and you should be getting yours shortly. Don't worry, they're on their way. |
| 14:12.14 | paultag | disdi: ^ |
| 14:14.33 | JordiGH | So some students sometimes seem to be... inexperienced. They run into a "basic" problem like not realising that they can't put a file under /usr/local (sometimes they just do the magic Simon-say sudo), and then ask for help with what looks to a Unix veteran like a very basic question. |
| 14:14.56 | armax00 | I am not at home right now but my roommates also told me I haven't recevied anything yet. |
| 14:15.02 | JordiGH | Sometimes it looks to us like they're not even attempting to diagnose the problem on their own and that we need to do too much hand-holding. |
| 14:15.14 | JordiGH | Is there some advice on what to do in these situations? |
| 14:16.01 | armax00 | JordiGH: in my experience.. I grew with people telling me "google it, do it your self, you can do it, try to find out what's the probleM' |
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| 14:16.32 | armax00 | but I gues it depends on whether the idea is to make the student learn to deal with the Unix environment |
| 14:16.38 | armax00 | (my 2cents as a student :D ) |
| 14:16.50 | JordiGH | No, that's just an intermediate "basic" tool... |
| 14:17.02 | JordiGH | I mean, don't get me wrong, I know the Unix UX really sucks until you get used to it. |
| 14:17.30 | disdi | sorry JordiGH |
| 14:17.42 | disdi | but this is how we would learn |
| 14:18.02 | disdi | no...i dont mean to offend anyone |
| 14:18.06 | JordiGH | Well, some of my mentors are getting annoyed that their students seem too needy. |
| 14:18.24 | disdi | but as a novice you tend to do such mistakes |
| 14:18.33 | JordiGH | That they need to be told exactly what to type into bash and are unable to fix any problems they encounter. |
| 14:18.35 | disdi | I too am facing similar problems |
| 14:19.08 | disdi | mainly since everone does not know everything |
| 14:19.09 | armax00 | JordiGH: maybe in such cases being more "mean" would be good.. I don't know |
| 14:19.19 | armax00 | like: try to look for it |
| 14:19.21 | gevaerts | disdi: the problem isn't having to learn |
| 14:19.31 | gevaerts | It's expecting your mentor to provide all the answers |
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| 14:19.53 | disdi | I get it but as a student you tend to go the easier way |
| 14:19.56 | armax00 | yes, I agree that this should not be the way gevaerts |
| 14:20.11 | JordiGH | gevaerts: So what should be done if the mentor shouldn't provide all the answers? |
| 14:20.12 | disdi | if your mentor dont answer you have to google it |
| 14:20.27 | gevaerts | disdi: that's the wrong order |
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| 14:21.03 | armax00 | agree |
| 14:21.30 | deklerkmc | agreed - mentors should be helping with research guidance and project specific questions, not wasting their time with technical admin. These guys have day jobs too. |
| 14:21.30 | gevaerts | JordiGH: I don't know. Maybe provide google search URLs instead of answers? |
| 14:21.47 | disdi | gavaerts..what I mean to say that these are all professional projects that need a lot of knowledge and expertise |
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| 14:22.12 | disdi | you really dont expect students actually to solve it |
| 14:22.31 | disdi | the objective is to let the students learn |
| 14:22.42 | gevaerts | disdi: the problem here is *not* complicated stuff about the projects |
| 14:22.47 | disdi | and if they can contribute |
| 14:22.51 | disdi | well and good |
| 14:22.57 | melandory | JordiGH, gevaerts or even better http://lmgtfy.com/ |
| 14:23.02 | deklerkmc | haha |
| 14:23.05 | gevaerts | It's about people asking how to use their computer |
| 14:23.09 | disdi | haha |
| 14:23.30 | shel3over | the student is a learning machine :) |
| 14:23.36 | deklerkmc | that site reeks of sarcasm |
| 14:23.41 | disdi | but these are all students.... you need to teach them |
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| 14:23.49 | gevaerts | melandory: http://tinyurl.com/kkeenx you mean? :) |
| 14:23.59 | pwebster | JordiGH: I'm working on Python and have used http://docs.python.org/devguide/ to answer many of my "novice" questions. Is there something like that that you can refer students to? |
| 14:24.04 | disdi | youc an not deny them b saying...thats too basic so I wont be telling you the answer |
| 14:24.12 | gevaerts | disdi: yes you can |
| 14:24.29 | gevaerts | If students can't e.g. figure out how to make ls show file sizes, they should not be in gsoc |
| 14:24.33 | disdi | no ... i do not agree |
| 14:24.52 | gevaerts | Then I predict a difficult gsoc for you |
| 14:24.53 | shel3over | gevaerts, agree :) |
| 14:24.55 | disdi | they are many things I do for the first time |
| 14:25.16 | disdi | you are trying to win an agrument |
| 14:25.18 | gevaerts | So? |
| 14:25.29 | gevaerts | I do many things for the first time all the time |
| 14:25.42 | disdi | the objective is to learn |
| 14:25.46 | gevaerts | Yes, so learn |
| 14:25.54 | gevaerts | Don't expect someone else to spoon-feed you |
| 14:26.07 | disdi | if a student knows only A, B, C, D |
| 14:26.27 | disdi | then atleast they would learn the entire albhabet in the process |
| 14:26.28 | deklerkmc | i think it's best to ask fellow GSOCoders for help first, n then ask the mentor? |
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| 14:27.26 | disdi | gevaerts,,I do not mean to offend you |
| 14:27.47 | disdi | but I just want to convey that students should get all help |
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| 14:28.08 | JordiGH | melandory: I don't like how snarky lmgtfy is. |
| 14:28.12 | gevaerts | I'd say there's nothing special about gsoc here. If e.g. your project requires you to use a linux system somehow, and you've never done that before, then you look on the net for tutorials, or you ask your mentor for a good tutorial, but you do *not* ask your mentor to teach you every single little bit |
| 14:28.27 | JordiGH | pwebster: I don't think we have a guide for "how to copy files in bash". |
| 14:28.52 | gevaerts | disdi: no. Students who can't learn on their own at all don't belong in gsoc. |
| 14:28.57 | shel3over | gevaerts, you r 100% right |
| 14:29.04 | gevaerts | agrees with JordiGH about lmgtfy |
| 14:29.11 | disdi | if the student doesn't know anything...they have the willingness to learn |
| 14:29.27 | disdi | that is enough |
| 14:29.33 | gevaerts | If people *really* don't get the message it's fine, but as a first hint lmgtfy is a bit insulting |
| 14:29.47 | disdi | that would make up for the shortcoming |
| 14:30.11 | gevaerts | disdi: it's not about wanting to learn. It's about *how* you want to learn |
| 14:30.24 | shel3over | JMP |
| 14:30.49 | disdi | sure ...I agree but you still have to teach them this |
| 14:30.58 | gevaerts | Are you 8 or 18? |
| 14:31.17 | disdi | they have to be told there is no shortcut to success |
| 14:31.32 | disdi | you always have to do it the harder way |
| 14:31.37 | gevaerts | It's fine to ask your mentor about e.g. good bash tutorials, but then *you* have to read those |
| 14:31.49 | armax00 | gevaerts: in fact that what I was suggesting "try to do it yourself first" |
| 14:32.04 | disdi | sure |
| 14:32.10 | gevaerts | It's *not* fine to keep pestering mentors with questions that have good explanations in the first google hit |
| 14:32.38 | gevaerts | As a mentor, I'd consider failing people at midterm for that, actually |
| 14:32.43 | darnir | gevaerts: I wouldn't limit it to the first hit. Or even the first page for that matter. |
| 14:32.53 | disdi | i just wanted to convey if we have people who dont know something or more than even something .... try to help them |
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| 14:33.26 | disdi | dont discourage them |
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| 14:33.43 | darnir | In my personal experience, searching for something and fixing it yourself provides with much more experience and learning that someone telling you, "Here's the answer" |
| 14:33.50 | disdi | mabe someday we would too be at the receiving end |
| 14:34.01 | gevaerts | darnir: yes, exactly |
| 14:34.09 | disdi | thats it gevaerts |
| 14:34.15 | pwebster | JordiGH: Ah, that is kind of an issue... If the mentor could point them to a general tutorial rather than answering with specifics, that might cut down on the questions. |
| 14:34.16 | disdi | thank you |
| 14:34.42 | darnir | pwebster: That would be perfect |
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| 14:39.41 | srjoglekar246 | Anyone from India received package? |
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| 14:40.23 | darnir | !studentpacks |
| 14:40.24 | gsocbot | darnir: "studentpacks" is The GSoC student welcome packs were sent out very recently, and you should be getting yours shortly. Don't worry, they're on their way. |
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| 14:44.35 | harshkothari | nopes srjoglekar246 |
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| 14:47.08 | kshitij8_ | negative here srjoglekar246 |
| 14:48.51 | hyades | srjoglekar246: no |
| 14:49.21 | gevaerts | hopes that everyone here will now tell the world about not having received packages |
| 14:49.44 | srjoglekar246 | hahaha^ |
| 14:49.51 | paultag | for real. |
| 14:50.49 | armax00 | gevaerts: I havent received it!! :D |
| 14:50.51 | aciid_ | Whats the hurry , the big stuff anyway comes later :D |
| 14:51.16 | aciid_ | Any idea though if you get tees with welcome package or after completing GSoC? |
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| 14:51.59 | armax00 | for what is my understanding we get it at the end |
| 14:52.13 | srjoglekar246 | big stuff == stipend? |
| 14:52.41 | srjoglekar246 | for a first paycheck, even 500$ is cool :-P |
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| 14:53.24 | paultag | personally the ACM membership is more interesting |
| 14:53.31 | chaithuzz2 | srjoglekar246 : +1 |
| 14:54.40 | chaithuzz2 | It would have been less headache for both google and the students if they had enabled a tracking system of the packages |
| 14:54.49 | srjoglekar246 | @paultag, please elaborate.. though the ebook collection of ACM does seem nice |
| 14:54.49 | paultag | for all the students? |
| 14:55.01 | paultag | chaithuzz2: I think that's a bit crazy :) |
| 14:55.04 | paultag | srjoglekar246: hum? |
| 14:55.26 | srjoglekar246 | As in, what are you doing with your membership? (So that I can make the bets of it) |
| 14:55.35 | paultag | I'm not a student :) |
| 14:55.41 | MatthewWilkes | chaithuzz2: I really don't understand why everyone's getting so anxious. When you order something from amazon do you call them up every day *before* the estimated delivery date asking how the delivery is going? |
| 14:56.19 | srjoglekar246 | Tracking those many packages in so many countries would be chaos...esp in India, Google will get frustrated :-P |
| 14:56.20 | hyades | MatthewWilkes: agreed :) |
| 14:56.36 | paultag | srjoglekar246: they have access to a lot of really great resources, perks are @ http://www.acm.org/sigs/sigs/volunteer_resources/SIG%20Member%20Benefits%20FY2012amended.doc |
| 14:56.51 | paultag | although wait, wrong link |
| 14:56.53 | paultag | that's for SIGs |
| 14:56.59 | paultag | damn you internet |
| 14:57.04 | srjoglekar246 | haha |
| 14:57.14 | paultag | you get my point :) |
| 14:57.24 | hyades | has to install something to open that .doc file |
| 14:57.36 | paultag | libreoffice? |
| 14:58.11 | hyades | yeah, i will get it :) |
| 14:58.18 | kai | "strings" |
| 14:58.19 | srjoglekar246 | I would like to know what happened to Yash Saxena :-| |
| 14:59.33 | hyades | something interesting |
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| 15:00.36 | srjoglekar246 | interesting? |
| 15:02.13 | hyades | who is Yash Saxena? |
| 15:02.14 | armax00 | would it be really so complicated to have the traking system for each package? it should be manged by the sending-company isn't it? |
| 15:03.15 | kai | but someone needs to mail the tracking number to every student |
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| 15:03.28 | srjoglekar246 | The guy who sent a proposal for piracy prevention to NMAP |
| 15:04.02 | srjoglekar246 | https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/google-summer-of-code-discuss/pciKTLPRu0c |
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| 15:05.00 | armax00 | kai: isn't that a service that the sending company gives? you provide the email together with the address and you are done? |
| 15:05.07 | armax00 | (asking for curiosity, nothing more) |
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| 15:05.31 | kai | right, but they don't pass on your email address to a third party |
| 15:05.58 | mwfc | they would ask for permission for that, or setup something temporary... have to worry about yet another thing :/ |
| 15:06.21 | MatthewWilkes | Also, I want to remind all of you that trying to guess the tracking number is probably illegal where you are |
| 15:06.31 | MatthewWilkes | And, yes, people do that almost every year. |
| 15:06.32 | armax00 | kai: true |
| 15:06.47 | sharky93 | but there could be something put up on melange? |
| 15:06.51 | armax00 | privacy issues of course, did not taken it in consideration |
| 15:06.57 | mwfc | i certainly would not want to do a mass mailing of that size, and find the "if you did not receive it by" version really ok :) |
| 15:07.39 | kai | sharky93: but somehow data has to go into melange |
| 15:07.53 | kai | remember, there's over a thousand of you and only one carol |
| 15:08.03 | paultag | (and y'all are the ones getting free stuff) |
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| 15:11.36 | jjs1 | Could somebody whip the mailing list? :-P |
| 15:14.03 | srjoglekar246 | whip? |
| 15:14.15 | kai | I'm sure it didn't do a thing |
| 15:14.49 | jjs1 | :-) |
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| 15:28.49 | jjs1 | Has anyone received their welcome packages yet? |
| 15:28.52 | jjs1 | gsocbot: studentpacks | jjs1 |
| 15:28.52 | gsocbot | jjs1: "studentpacks" is The GSoC student welcome packs were sent out very recently, and you should be getting yours shortly. Don't worry, they're on their way. |
| 15:28.59 | jjs1 | jjs1: But that doesn't answer my question! |
| 15:29.09 | jjs1 | jjs1: I'm sure if people had received them you'd know about it by now. |
| 15:29.15 | jjs1 | jjs1: Ok, thanks! :-) |
| 15:29.21 | paultag | checks topic |
| 15:29.31 | paultag | no, this isn't the twilight zone |
| 15:29.38 | jjs1 | There, now I've done the honours for IRC, perhaps someone can do the honours for the mailing list. xD |
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| 15:32.27 | kshitij | dual personality disorder? |
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| 15:41.54 | jjs1 | (My thanks to Atul Jangra!) |
| 15:42.38 | iamramtripathi | jjs1: +1 |
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| 15:53.45 | jjs1 | Although I will say (in response to: "MatthewWilkes: chaithuzz2: I really don't understand why everyone's getting so anxious. ..."): I would have got my first summer pay check from work by now if I wasn't doing GSoC. |
| 15:54.05 | jjs1 | So my money is running low. I imagine others are in the same position. :-) |
| 15:54.16 | atuljangra | !logs |
| 15:54.17 | gsocbot | atuljangra: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 15:54.33 | jjs1 | Indeed the whole idea of a stipend is to allow people to do choice work without having to also work for money. ;-) |
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| 15:55.36 | kshitij | nods in agreement to jjs1 |
| 15:55.36 | Achillion | I still have some beer money to last me a week, so I my coding fuel wont be running out soon |
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| 15:55.51 | Achillion | s/I my/my/ |
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| 16:21.53 | carols | serves some calming herbal tea to all the students on the gsoc discuss list |
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| 16:22.24 | MatthewWilkes | carols: We made an IRC bot yesterday that dispenses calming advice |
| 16:22.35 | carols | that's great, thank you MatthewWilkes. |
| 16:22.37 | Achillion | Did you load him up with valium? |
| 16:22.40 | MatthewWilkes | Not here, unfortunately |
| 16:22.43 | MatthewWilkes | At work |
| 16:22.46 | MatthewWilkes | Gives advice like "TAKE THE BACK SEAT – However much you think you might enjoy driving, it is a stressful business. Take the back seat (with a driver you trust), and spend the journey sharing your calm. " |
| 16:22.58 | carols | based on all the emails I receive from students, gsoc is a very anxiety-inducing program |
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| 16:23.15 | Achillion | Am I the only one having fun here? |
| 16:23.21 | carols | i believe so, Achillion |
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| 16:23.37 | Achillion | Neat |
| 16:23.40 | Achillion | is proud of himself |
| 16:24.10 | downey | steeps a pot of highly-caffeinated black tea for the mentors |
| 16:24.10 | sharky93 | you're not alone Achillion :) |
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| 16:25.16 | Achillion | ^5 sharky93 |
| 16:25.22 | paultag | ⁵ |
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| 16:28.14 | aciid_ | hi5 Achillion |
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| 16:33.50 | hratsimihah | Achillion: definitely not. |
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| 16:34.43 | Achillion | :) well, good |
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| 16:35.15 | hratsimihah | What's your project? |
| 16:36.23 | Achillion | Neural network sim on Android |
| 16:36.34 | Achillion | With code generation from an existing python library |
| 16:36.36 | Achillion | yours> |
| 16:36.38 | Achillion | > |
| 16:36.39 | Achillion | ? |
| 16:36.44 | Achillion | (damn question-mark) |
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| 16:41.46 | hratsimihah | Wow |
| 16:41.53 | hratsimihah | That's a cool project! |
| 16:42.21 | hratsimihah | Have you heard of Privly? |
| 16:42.38 | Achillion | I will in a moment |
| 16:42.43 | hratsimihah | Lol |
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| 16:43.01 | Achillion | personal data management? |
| 16:43.12 | hratsimihah | Basically they let you keep control of the content you post on the internet. |
| 16:43.14 | hratsimihah | Yes! |
| 16:43.17 | Achillion | sounds cool |
| 16:43.31 | hratsimihah | My project is to implement an iOS app for it. |
| 16:43.45 | Achillion | ah, so another mobile dev in the making :) |
| 16:43.55 | hratsimihah | Yup :) |
| 16:43.58 | Achillion | Going from desktop to mobile is tricky (I'm discovering now) |
| 16:44.10 | hratsimihah | How so? |
| 16:45.30 | Achillion | Well there's different kinds of situations to worry about, like what to do when the app gets sent to the background, how to handle screen orientation changes (which in android restarts the foreground activity), stuff like that |
| 16:45.51 | Achillion | On the desktop, if you're running, you're running. :) |
| 16:46.25 | hratsimihah | Lol true. |
| 16:46.46 | hratsimihah | But but |
| 16:47.12 | hratsimihah | What if you take your desktop monitor and rotate it 90 degrees? |
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| 16:47.48 | Achillion | then all hell breaks loose! |
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| 16:48.12 | Achillion | or I stop being able to do anything, in any case |
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| 16:53.10 | hratsimihah | Haha. It may be just a matter of time before desktop monitors get accelerometers too. |
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| 16:53.52 | Achillion | I dunno. Swivel monitors have been around for a while, and are great for switching to portrait for "reading mode" |
| 16:54.04 | Achillion | Most people who need them use them I guess |
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| 16:57.15 | hratsimihah | Right, but isn't the orientation switched manually? |
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| 16:58.29 | Achillion | ye |
| 16:58.48 | Achillion | I guess adding an accelerometer and a bash script isn't hard though :P |
| 16:58.52 | Achillion | or a shortcut key |
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| 17:01.21 | hratsimihah | True, a bash script and a shortcut key could make do. |
| 17:01.46 | Achillion | xrandr --output HDMI1 --orientation right |
| 17:01.48 | Achillion | :D |
| 17:01.55 | Achillion | Doesn't work on my laptop :( |
| 17:02.26 | gevaerts | --rotate |
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| 17:02.53 | Achillion | there we go |
| 17:02.57 | Achillion | thanks :D |
| 17:04.55 | hratsimihah | lol |
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| 17:06.11 | hratsimihah | xrandr: output default cannot use rotation "right" reflection "none" |
| 17:07.24 | gevaerts | Achillion: try xrandr --output HDMI1 --transform 0.7,-0.7,0,0.7,0.7,0,0,0,1 |
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| 17:07.52 | Achillion | Typing upside down is a bit tricky. I guess I could just stop paying attention to the scren and type without looking |
| 17:08.19 | Achillion | I'll try that, but on the second screen |
| 17:08.54 | Achillion | bilenear filter? |
| 17:09.18 | jjs1 | senses a distraction |
| 17:09.46 | Achillion | heh, that's neat |
| 17:09.57 | Achillion | jjs1: yeah, I should be getting home soon :| |
| 17:10.26 | jjs1 | I'll let you off then ^_^ |
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| 17:12.36 | Achillion | Right, enough xrandering. Let's commit some changes |
| 17:15.07 | hratsimihah | Lol. I just black-screened my machine with `xrandr --output default --mode 1152x720` |
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| 17:15.33 | hratsimihah | Good thing the changes were overriden with a reboot, because it was unusable. |
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| 17:16.14 | hratsimihah | gevaerts: what does the transform do? It doesn't seem to work on my computer. |
| 17:16.40 | gevaerts | hratsimihah: http://www.mshopf.de/pub/Fosdem_2009_randr13_Slides.pdf has a nice overview |
| 17:17.09 | hratsimihah | thanks! |
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| 17:17.51 | hratsimihah | Oh I see. That's amazing. |
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| 17:24.38 | jjs1 | wonders what carols inbox will look like tomorrow morning. |
| 17:24.52 | carols | jjs1: probably like it has for the past two weeks. |
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| 17:26.11 | jjs1 | And half the world will wake up to the Friday 21st cut-off point before you do. |
| 17:26.46 | jjs1 | Good luck. Though I'm sure you don't need it. :-) |
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| 17:27.50 | somaen | What cutoff is this? |
| 17:28.13 | hyades | the fedex guy's arrival |
| 17:28.28 | jjs1 | The "don't email me about the welcome packages ... unless you have not received them by Friday, 21 June, 2013" cut-off point. |
| 17:28.29 | Achillion | somaen: the date people are "allowed" to wonder why they haven't received their packages yet |
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| 17:30.20 | jjs1 | But I guess it's looked like that for the past two weeks because nobody read about that date anyway. :-) |
| 17:30.34 | carols | jjs1: you took the words right out of my mouth. |
| 17:30.41 | hyades | jjs1: even I am wondering about the number of emails |
| 17:31.12 | carols | if there is something that really makes me sad about this program, it's the amount of time i spend writing all of the documents that go unread. |
| 17:31.28 | carols | every year i spend more time writing them, too, just so that things will be clearer. |
| 17:31.33 | Achillion | If I tell you that I read all of them multiple times, would it make you feel better? |
| 17:31.34 | carols | and still, it does not matter. |
| 17:31.58 | somaen | Well, that is how information flow goes |
| 17:32.18 | somaen | It's the same with other things when the amount of new people is large enough |
| 17:32.47 | somaen | (Speaking from experience with large-ish uni-classes over a few years) |
| 17:33.09 | Achillion | I guess not :| |
| 17:33.16 | Achillion | Well anyway. I'm off |
| 17:33.27 | somaen | The only thing that can reduce it somewhat, is to boil down the most important pieces of information, and make them VERY easily available |
| 17:33.42 | Achillion | yeah like put it in your email signature :) |
| 17:34.11 | Achillion | right, I was leaving, wasn't I? |
| 17:34.12 | hratsimihah | carols: be aware that some of us really appreciate the clarity and quality of the GSoC documents :) |
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| 17:34.22 | carols | hratsimihah: thanks |
| 17:34.25 | ffledgling | thinks periodic broadcasts by gsocbot shouting "It's not the 21st yet" might help too |
| 17:34.29 | jjs1 | hratsimihah: +1 |
| 17:34.40 | jjs1 | I even print it all out to read it. :-) |
| 17:34.45 | somaen | I for one was trying to find the piece of information that said "You are not a Google intern" |
| 17:34.45 | harshkothari | hratsimihah: +1 :) |
| 17:34.54 | somaen | couldn't find it when looking through the docs this year |
| 17:36.57 | harshkothari | somaen: this is good news for you that you couldnt find this :P |
| 17:37.15 | somaen | Well, I'm not a GSoC student either this year |
| 17:37.39 | somaen | as a Mentor, I don't even think I'm in any kind of financial relationship with Google. |
| 17:37.41 | harshkothari | somaen: ohh |
| 17:37.50 | jjs1 | A project proposal for next year: "Proposal to be carols's PA. ... Deliverables: lots of macro commands and patience." |
| 17:37.51 | harshkothari | somaen: agree |
| 17:38.19 | somaen | jjs1: The macro-commands are optional, as long as you can deliver on patience |
| 17:38.20 | harshkothari | jjs1: lol :) |
| 17:39.04 | somaen | Although, I guess writing a natural language parser to handle the FAQ-part would be usefull :P |
| 17:39.40 | harshkothari | somaen: that would be very useful since google is expert into that :P |
| 17:40.24 | somaen | Who says carols isn't partially represented by the clusters at Google? |
| 17:41.52 | somaen | I know _I_ would have a hard time handling this many requests. |
| 17:42.07 | somaen | So, atleast a hat off from this former GSoC Student. |
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| 18:02.49 | cowlicks | So, we do not receive a T-shirt untill after the program is over? |
| 18:03.09 | somaen | No |
| 18:03.25 | somaen | IIRC you get a sticker |
| 18:05.27 | carols | cowlicks: you have to pass the entire program to get a shirt. |
| 18:05.41 | carols | and even then it's only if you're not in a customs-prohibited country. |
| 18:06.03 | gevaerts | If you don't manage to finish gsoc successfully, you'll be cold next winter |
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| 18:13.13 | somaen | customs-prohibited? |
| 18:13.33 | somaen | As in a country that bans t-shirts, or one of the countries that can't participate anyhow? |
| 18:13.44 | gevaerts | The former |
| 18:13.59 | gevaerts | Some countries have strict import rules on textiles and related goods |
| 18:14.15 | somaen | Ahh |
| 18:14.32 | gevaerts | The FAQ has lists I believe |
| 18:14.55 | melandory | somaen, I can not tell about all countries, but in case of Russia post and custom works awful, so I bet this is the reason |
| 18:14.57 | somaen | I'm only used to the added tax specificially on clothes |
| 18:16.29 | carols | somaen: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#7._Is_there_a_t-shirt_involved |
| 18:16.35 | carols | cowlicks: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#7._Is_there_a_t-shirt_involved |
| 18:17.01 | gevaerts | I could be wrong here, but my deduction is that basically the rule is that if it's not a simple matter of stuffing the t-shirt in a package, sticking an address label onto it, and giving it to the shipping company, the country ends up on the no-t-shirt list |
| 18:18.16 | hratsimihah | so looking forward to seeing what the tshirts will look like |
| 18:19.53 | hratsimihah | Is the sticker the same as last year? http://jayrambhia.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/package.jpg |
| 18:20.38 | gevaerts | hratsimihah: you'll be able to tell us soon :) |
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| 18:25.36 | hratsimihah | !patience | hratsimihah |
| 18:25.36 | gsocbot | hratsimihah: "patience" is very important for GSoC/GCI. Relax and go code something useful. |
| 18:25.44 | hratsimihah | fine. |
| 18:26.15 | derdon | does it mean that coding is relaxing? |
| 18:26.22 | paultag | yes |
| 18:26.25 | paultag | is it not? |
| 18:26.32 | gevaerts | It can be |
| 18:26.46 | gevaerts | At the beginning of a project, it *should* be :) |
| 18:26.55 | paultag | +1 |
| 18:27.03 | paultag | Coding is always relaxing for me, nothing beats hacking something up. |
| 18:27.37 | gevaerts | had to fix a bug introduced by an idiot today |
| 18:27.42 | derdon | coding requires thinking. thinking is not relaxing to me. I am most relaxed when I have not to think at all |
| 18:27.47 | paultag | Oh! Those are my ♥ |
| 18:27.53 | paultag | derdon: who says coding requires thinking?! :) |
| 18:27.55 | gevaerts | Myself in the past. You can't get worse... |
| 18:28.10 | paultag | It feels more like breathing to me, I usually do it while watching TV and zoning out |
| 18:28.14 | paultag | it's like mowing the lawn |
| 18:28.19 | paultag | or running |
| 18:28.33 | derdon | paultag: if it's not, it's not challenging. and I don't like non-challenging programming |
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| 18:28.48 | paultag | I plan what I'm doing before I code |
| 18:28.55 | paultag | otherwise it'll lead to mistakes |
| 18:29.01 | derdon | sure, I do that as well |
| 18:29.08 | paultag | so, what's to think about :) |
| 18:30.08 | derdon | paultag: well, you don't want to tell me you don't think at all when implementing an algorithm, do you? |
| 18:30.19 | paultag | Sure I do, but it's not "work" |
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| 18:30.29 | paultag | the closest to effort would be debugging someone else's code |
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| 18:30.34 | paultag | but meh, I enjoy that a lot :) |
| 18:30.39 | gevaerts | Or your own, after a few years |
| 18:30.46 | paultag | gevaerts: or in the morning ;) |
| 18:30.49 | gevaerts | :) |
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| 18:33.13 | TheMonster | nice discussion there:) |
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| 18:34.07 | paultag | (I'm aware I'm not "normal", I've been coding well for half my life at this point, since I was 12, so it might just be something odd with my brain) |
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| 18:34.43 | gevaerts | paultag: you started late! :) |
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| 18:34.52 | gevaerts | was a year or so earlier he thinks |
| 18:35.00 | paultag | :) |
| 18:35.10 | paultag | gevaerts: I got my first firmware hacking job at 16 :) |
| 18:35.11 | paultag | that was fun :) |
| 18:35.15 | gevaerts | You win there :) |
| 18:35.18 | paultag | (I mean, really coding :) ) |
| 18:35.24 | derdon | admitting to not be normal on IRC is not a real confession, paultag ;) |
| 18:38.14 | paultag | :) |
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| 18:41.01 | harshkot_ | is enjoying this conversation :) |
| 18:41.50 | TheMonster | well, sometimes it seems that you can never be the best at programming. |
| 18:42.03 | paultag | quite. |
| 18:42.03 | TheMonster | or at anything :) |
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| 18:44.39 | harshkot_ | paultag: :) |
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| 18:50.31 | TheMonster | just wondering, when you learnt programming, was it on your own or you took classes or courses? |
| 18:51.26 | paultag | if that's a question for me, we can move to PM or so, so we can leave here free :) |
| 18:51.57 | TheMonster | oh sorry didn't know it was offtopic. I have to go anyways :) |
| 18:52.06 | paultag | :) |
| 18:53.27 | hratsimihah | learned with books, classes, side projects, books, stack-overflow, and books. |
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| 18:56.13 | Crystallis | Well, since everyone has been asking in around here about the package, I can confirm that I received my package from within the United States. |
| 18:56.25 | hratsimihah | Yiha! What's the sticker like? |
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| 18:56.44 | jjs1 | I learned to program with Web. But I learn new languages with this: http://projecteuler.net/ |
| 18:57.02 | jjs1 | A site which I thoroughly recommend. :-) |
| 18:57.07 | hratsimihah | Gotta take a look a Project Euler. |
| 18:57.18 | paultag | jjs1: doing that is a mistake IMVHO - IMVHO languages are tools, and each solves a very particular problem |
| 18:57.20 | hratsimihah | Crystallis: never mind, no spoilers. |
| 18:57.31 | paultag | and again, IMVHO, you should learn a language with what it's good at |
| 18:57.42 | paultag | otherwise you have PHP and write a GTK app with it |
| 18:58.09 | hratsimihah | paultag: Are you saying I should learned Lisp by writing an AI that will teach me Lisp? |
| 18:58.21 | paultag | No, I'm saying, use macros to create a DSL |
| 18:58.29 | paultag | since Lisp is good at that |
| 18:58.35 | jjs1 | paultag: IMHO learning is a very personal thing :-) |
| 19:00.23 | hratsimihah | Right. |
| 19:00.36 | jjs1 | Also, in my experience, if you start telling a student what the language is good (and bad) for while they just want to know all the controls structures (for example), then they blank you out so that they can concentrate. hehe |
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| 19:00.57 | paultag | I'm not saying do that for learning how to program, just learning a new language. |
| 19:02.35 | Crystallis | hratsimihah: The sticker is nice :) |
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| 19:02.53 | hratsimihah | Cool, thanks! |
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| 19:04.14 | jjs1 | paultag: I'm sure we can agree to disagree. As we've both stated, it's a matter of opinion. :-) |
| 19:04.20 | paultag | quite :) |
| 19:04.32 | jjs1 | But Project Euler is fantastic. :-P |
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| 19:04.47 | paultag | it is fun :) |
| 19:04.55 | paultag | (and helps you pick a language for each one ;) ) |
| 19:05.46 | P-Alex | Hi, it's there someone that was accepted to GSoC program this year? Have you used ACM? What it is? thx |
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| 19:06.26 | paultag | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_for_Computing_Machinery |
| 19:06.33 | paultag | P-Alex: ^ |
| 19:06.48 | jjs1 | is off to do some work |
| 19:07.40 | P-Alex | OK :) but i've registered, but i don't see anything for free :) for example if i look in books section you must buy it... |
| 19:07.55 | paultag | P-Alex: check out the Digital Library |
| 19:08.22 | P-Alex | The same for the Online Courses, only for premium members |
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| 19:11.02 | kshitij8_ | funny enough I had purchased an ACM student membership 2 months back and now I get it for free :-D |
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| 19:13.39 | Sewar | hratsimihah: http://i.imgur.com/FWjHNp8.jpg |
| 19:14.17 | hratsimihah | Is that the sticker? |
| 19:14.23 | hratsimihah | I don't like spoilers. |
| 19:14.38 | paultag | it is |
| 19:14.58 | kshitij8_ | looks good!! thanks Sewar |
| 19:15.01 | Sewar | too late |
| 19:15.05 | Sewar | np kshitij8_ |
| 19:15.14 | hratsimihah | Not if I don't look at it, but thank you! |
| 19:16.08 | hratsimihah | Oh it is nice, my laptop said it likes it. |
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| 19:17.10 | Sewar | yeah, just cleaning first, he pen bag almost ruined it |
| 19:17.29 | Sewar | need* |
| 19:17.37 | harshkothari | Sewar: thanks for sharing :) |
| 19:17.53 | Sewar | yw harshkothari |
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| 19:44.57 | Chinu | people getting welcome package, me feels jealous. |
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| 19:46.08 | Chinu | wishes he had some hot tea :D ! |
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| 19:53.18 | pbanaszkiewicz | does anyone know how to connect this new ACM membership to an existing ACM account? |
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| 20:00.15 | DarthCodus | pbanaszkiewicz: Just what I wanna know :) |
| 20:00.16 | kshitij8_ | pbanaszkiewicz: I got my accounts linked automatically since I used same emailID for both |
| 20:01.27 | hratsimihah | kshitij8_: slick. |
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| 20:03.00 | kshitij8_ | wonders if this membership adds to the existing one or I lost my previous one. |
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| 20:06.22 | harshadura__ | gonna sleep Zzzzz |
| 20:10.15 | pbanaszkiewicz | kshitij8_: could you tell us what exactly did you do? I have the same email as previously, but can't figure out how to connect new membership to it |
| 20:11.48 | kshitij8_ | pbanaszkiewicz: does the email id registered against your previous ACM account differ from the one you're using for GSoC? |
| 20:12.31 | pbanaszkiewicz | kshitij8_: nope |
| 20:13.08 | kshitij8_ | then I dont think you need to do anything. |
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| 20:16.20 | kshitij8_ | pbanaszkiewicz: I just checked my acm account, and now it holds the member i recieved as part of GSoC and my previous one vanished |
| 20:17.08 | pbanaszkiewicz | dang. ACM shows only my previous subscription (and it's expired). I've already asked support for help, will see if they can connect my newer membership |
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| 20:18.48 | Chinu | hi, users of ACM; how good is it ? |
| 20:18.55 | Chinu | Me never used it before |
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| 20:19.36 | kshitij8_ | pbanaszkiewicz: did you check your reciepts? I had one dated 14jun on my account from google |
| 20:20.37 | kshitij8_ | Chinu: I too havent been using it for long, but I suppose the digital library is similar to the IEEE one (which is pretty good) |
| 20:20.37 | pbanaszkiewicz | kshitij8_: "There are no transactions under your record at this time." I think there's nothing we could do. I'll wait for the ACM support |
| 20:21.02 | Chinu | Thank you :D |
| 20:21.22 | kshitij8_ | Also, you get discounts for conference and othe ACM events |
| 20:22.52 | kshitij8_ | pbanaszkiewicz: yeah maybe something went wrong. You do have your new member number isnt it? |
| 20:23.08 | pbanaszkiewicz | yup I do have it |
| 20:23.42 | kshitij8_ | then no worries it'll be resolved in due time. :-) |
| 20:24.24 | kshitij8_ | Chinu: BTW you get access to Microsoft Dreamspark softwares for free too. ;-) |
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| 20:25.24 | pbanaszkiewicz | kshitij8_: ;) yeah I'm sure it'll be, thanks for your help |
| 20:25.45 | Chinu | That is really nice ! |
| 20:26.10 | kshitij8_ | pbanaszkiewicz: yw |
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| 20:55.20 | atuljangra | jjs1: Hey. Saw you reply just now. Was wired up :-) |
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| 21:17.12 | gary_b | one of the awesome things about acm membership is access to the microsoft dreamspark premium program |
| 21:17.40 | gary_b | win7, win8, visual studio 2012 ultimate all free |
| 21:18.00 | Achillion | really? |
| 21:18.02 | Achillion | I had no idea. |
| 21:18.06 | derdon | getting windows is one of the awesome things? |
| 21:18.13 | gary_b | for free lol |
| 21:18.19 | Achillion | Yes, derdon , because games require windows :) |
| 21:18.23 | gary_b | and you know the kind of free i mean :p |
| 21:18.28 | derdon | gary_b: I can get for free from my uni |
| 21:18.44 | derdon | gary_b: for nothing :P |
| 21:18.49 | Achillion | Me too, but I could always use another key or two |
| 21:19.05 | gary_b | i only have access to the standard dreamspark program through my college, which gives me less software |
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| 21:25.35 | kblin | hey carols |
| 21:25.42 | carols | hi kblin |
| 21:26.26 | Achillion | hello to all! |
| 21:27.00 | breton | !logs |
| 21:27.02 | gsocbot | breton: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 21:33.05 | kblin | holy crap |
| 21:33.28 | kblin | there's a paper from 1881 I'd like to read, it's available online, but behind a paywall |
| 21:33.48 | svuorela | maybe the author died less than 70y ago :P |
| 21:34.37 | kblin | I doubt that |
| 21:35.31 | kblin | no, actually he died in 1930 |
| 21:36.17 | kblin | so he passes the disney copyright expiration check |
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| 21:46.13 | summatusmentis | kblin: I can see if I can access it |
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| 21:55.34 | jjs1 | atuljangra: It's good to keep busy. :-) |
| 21:56.14 | kblin | summatusmentis: Claisen, L.; Claparede, A. (1881). "Condensationen von Ketonen mit Aldehyden". Berichte der Deutschen Chemischen Gesellschaft 14 (2): 2460–2468 |
| 21:56.47 | kblin | wiley reprinted it in 2006, but apparently we don't have a subscription |
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| 21:57.33 | kblin | or maybe I'd rather have the Claisen, L. (1887). "Ueber die Einführung von Säureradicalen in Ketone". Berichte der Deutschen Chemischen Gesellschaft 20 (1): 655–657. one |
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| 22:04.31 | kblin | maybe I should check the library tomorrow. it's a german journal after all |
| 22:04.49 | kblin | if it survived a measly two world wars, we might still have a copy |
| 22:04.57 | Achillion | measly |
| 22:15.56 | kblin | anyway, bedtime |
| 22:16.26 | Achillion | gnight |
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| 22:50.34 | Fritzendugan | why is it everytime I check my email I'm flooded with messages about the welcome packages? |
| 22:50.54 | Fritzendugan | how many times has this been discussed on the mailing list :P |
| 22:51.03 | paultag | giggles |
| 22:51.08 | zero_level | Hey are the university wise statistics available now ? |
| 22:51.10 | zero_level | is curious |
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| 22:53.58 | Achillion | HALP I HAVNT RECEIVED MY PACKAGE YEt |
| 22:54.07 | Achillion | sorry, it's late |
| 22:54.09 | paultag | not helping |
| 22:54.11 | Achillion | I get weird |
| 22:54.42 | Achillion | excessive coding degrades my social skills |
| 22:54.47 | Achillion | I consider it a necessary evil |
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| 22:56.15 | GorillaWarfare | Achillion: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/working_home |
| 22:56.26 | Achillion | oatmeal, neat! |
| 22:56.34 | Achillion | dont think I've read that one, thanks |
| 22:57.20 | GorillaWarfare | Achillion: Somewhat relevant :) |
| 22:59.28 | Achillion | extremely |
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| 23:01.49 | Achillion | I can say I've experienced both sides |
| 23:01.54 | Achillion | and it's quite accurate |
| 23:03.22 | dfighter | GorillaWarfare lol at those action items :D |
| 23:03.36 | GorillaWarfare | :) |
| 23:03.38 | dfighter | show boss how to reboot router, kill self :D |
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| 23:04.21 | jjs1 | Microsoft Visio 2013 confirmed for worst software (2013): http://imgur.com/9z4IkI5 |
| 23:04.44 | Achillion | great year for MS |
| 23:05.29 | jjs1 | I've never been so many times frustrated in such a short amount of time. >:-( |
| 23:06.52 | Achillion | I'd say I'm happier since I started limiting my exposure to MS products, but that period included configuring xorg.conf by hand |
| 23:06.56 | Achillion | shudders |
| 23:07.29 | Achillion | Now where did I put that XKCD? |
| 23:07.33 | dfighter | it could be worse |
| 23:07.40 | dfighter | you could be configuring sendmail too! |
| 23:08.08 | Achillion | here we go http://xkcd.com/963/ |
| 23:08.49 | jjs1 | I'd be willing to say this is probably worse. |
| 23:08.55 | Achillion | Probably is |
| 23:09.02 | jjs1 | ^_^ |
| 23:09.21 | Achillion | dfighter: I dunno. I set up sendmail once and never had to bother with it again. Been working fine, but the use case is rather limited |
| 23:09.34 | Achillion | oh no wait, nevermind |
| 23:09.50 | jjs1 | I'm going to write to Bill Gates and ask him why my arrow wont snap where I want it. |
| 23:09.52 | Achillion | I remember, I ended up switching to mutt |
| 23:12.06 | xchg | afaik sendmail is MTA not client |
| 23:13.16 | Achillion | yeah, I wanted something to send me weekly updates from a logfile and started configuring sendmail |
| 23:13.31 | Achillion | Turns out mutt was just simpler |
| 23:13.46 | Achillion | even if it is a full blown client |
| 23:14.39 | gevaerts | mutt and sendmail have basically no overlapping functionality, so I'm not sure what yuou were doing |
| 23:15.55 | gevaerts | Also, why *sendmail*? Nearly nobody uses that for new installations these days. There are lots of other equally powerful MTAs these days that people *do* use |
| 23:16.25 | Achillion | can you use sendmail to have a cronjob notify you of things via email? |
| 23:16.46 | Achillion | or, not necessarily a cronjob, just automate sending of mail |
| 23:18.04 | xchg | you don't need to setup your own email server to be able to send email |
| 23:18.10 | gevaerts | You need a MUA and an MTA for that, *somewhere* |
| 23:18.32 | gevaerts | On a system that's not otherwise a mail server, I'd use mailx+nullmailer for that |
| 23:19.08 | Achillion | well when I started looking into it, sendmail was the most commonly used tool |
| 23:19.18 | gevaerts | Although of course if you want something more powerful, you could easily go for mailx + postfix or exim or, yes, sendmail |
| 23:19.41 | gevaerts | Don't confuse /usr/lib/sendmail with sendmail :) |
| 23:19.52 | Achillion | well, *now* you tell me |
| 23:20.08 | gevaerts | /usr/lib/sendmail is a binary provided by basically any MTA |
| 23:20.09 | xchg | Achillion: most commonly used for MTA, which you usually don't need to setup on your own |
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| 23:20.59 | gevaerts | That name is a historical result of sendmail being the first common MTA back in the old days |
| 23:21.41 | Achillion | right, nvm me |
| 23:21.42 | Achillion | carry on |
| 23:21.48 | gevaerts | If you install e.g. nullmailer, you'll get /usr/lib/sendmail and a simple config file that you tell about your remote smtp server, and that's it |
| 23:23.38 | Achillion | which is what I thought we were talking about all along |
| 23:23.41 | Achillion | obviously |
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| 23:27.29 | Achillion | I should go to bed |
| 23:27.52 | Achillion | Goodnight gee sock |
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| 23:35.18 | jjs1 | goes the way of the Achillion |
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