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| 02:46.37 | laurel | can anyone help me "why is there a need to build lua" |
| 02:51.21 | dfighter | laurel what does this have to do with GSOC exactly? |
| 02:52.58 | laurel | lua is an organization in gsoc, and in lua channel nobody answers, so i just want to communicate with lua ppl/ or someone else who is interested in lua |
| 02:54.35 | anth_r | this isn't really a good place to do that. |
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| 02:55.22 | laurel | what do you mean by a "good place'" |
| 02:56.12 | anth_r | this channel is for discussion related to GSoC. if your questions are about lua specifically, you'll have better results in forums (channels, mailing lists, whatever) devoted to that. |
| 02:57.08 | laurel | got it, i shall try once again (there) |
| 02:57.24 | tomprince | laurel: If that is a requirement for applying to lua, and you are asking why you need to do it, the reason is, if you are working on lua, you need to be able to build it. |
| 02:59.09 | laurel | tomprince its not about capability, its about the need, we already have a lot of compilers but why we require another one as "lua" which itself is built on c |
| 02:59.11 | laurel | in* |
| 02:59.44 | toso | laurel: lua, script language lua ? |
| 02:59.55 | laurel | yes toso |
| 03:00.17 | laurel | its a language similar to c |
| 03:00.34 | dfighter | it's not at all similar |
| 03:01.00 | laurel | could you elaborate @dfighter |
| 03:01.24 | dfighter | laurel have you not ever seen Lua code? |
| 03:01.26 | toso | I'd say that lua is more similar to python then to c |
| 03:01.38 | laurel | i have seen, its written in c |
| 03:02.01 | dfighter | the interpreter is, but that doesn't make it similar to C |
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| 03:02.46 | laurel | that's what i am unable to understand "what is it for", "why is it " |
| 03:03.10 | dfighter | laurel it's a scripting language |
| 03:03.13 | dfighter | have you never used one? |
| 03:03.30 | laurel | have used html |
| 03:03.51 | laurel | java script |
| 03:03.59 | laurel | a few more |
| 03:04.09 | dfighter | laurel then I don't understand your question |
| 03:04.16 | dfighter | what is the purpose of javascript? |
| 03:04.25 | dfighter | if you know that, you know what Lua is for |
| 03:05.22 | laurel | actually, if we have so many other and better scripting languages why do we need to build lua |
| 03:05.41 | tomprince | Why not? |
| 03:07.02 | tomprince | Lua is only 2y older than python, anyway. |
| 03:07.09 | laurel | i mean there should be something diff or a specific reason to build lua, |
| 03:07.21 | laurel | 2y? |
| 03:08.41 | dfighter | laurel as I recall Lua was started because of some legal issues, but since then it's been used a lot in games for example |
| 03:08.42 | bbc | lua is said to be appropriate for embedded devices and scripting interfaces |
| 03:08.48 | dfighter | due to it's simplicity and speed I assume |
| 03:09.33 | toso | laurel: so, there is a reason to build lua. |
| 03:09.40 | laurel | great |
| 03:09.59 | laurel | tthanks to all |
| 03:10.23 | laurel | most of the projects in gsoc are hectic |
| 03:11.00 | bbc | laurel: you can google "why lua" if you run out of ideas :) |
| 03:11.15 | laurel | i am really confused "which one should i pick" |
| 03:11.16 | anth_r | what does "hectic" mean there? |
| 03:11.55 | laurel | thanks bbc |
| 03:12.06 | toso | laurel: pick one that you would enjoy doing |
| 03:12.51 | laurel | i don't know which one could be so interesting |
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| 03:13.27 | laurel | i was interested in c/c++ projects but they are far more difficult |
| 03:13.40 | anth_r | i usually advise people to start by thinking about what areas of computer science they're interested in. |
| 03:13.54 | anth_r | then look through the tags for things which seem similar. |
| 03:14.06 | dfighter | C and C++ are languages, not really an area of interest, unless you mean compiler design :P |
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| 03:15.36 | laurel | oops, DS, Dbms, Gaming are my area of interest |
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| 03:15.41 | variable | laurel: FreeBSD has a lot of projects that use C and C++ |
| 03:15.54 | anth_r | most of the operating systems will. |
| 03:16.00 | toso | tux4kids is C + SDL, lot of fun :) |
| 03:16.20 | dfighter | laurel then look for those keywords in Melange :) |
| 03:16.28 | laurel | but whatever project so far i could see in 2 days on gsoc were totally out of my scope except libreoffice |
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| 03:18.16 | dfighter | laurel if you are interested in a topic and willing to learn you are probably welcome at any project |
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| 03:22.57 | laurel | k, thanks to all, it shall be great if anyone of you finds interesting project(not a compiler,language design) so plz mail me at raj1991raj18@gmail.com |
| 03:25.01 | laurel | a heart-full thanks to everyone who helped me resolving my problem |
| 03:25.23 | laurel | gtg bye |
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| 03:26.01 | toso | !next |
| 03:26.02 | gsocbot | toso: "next" is May 3 19:00 UTC: Student application deadline. |
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| 04:32.22 | sreepriya1 | Hello |
| 04:32.49 | sreepriya1 | May I know where to submit the student proposal ? |
| 04:33.09 | anth_r | google-melange.com |
| 04:33.25 | bbc | sreepriya1: look up your organization in the list on melange, then click on it, click on apply or something like this |
| 04:33.43 | sreepriya1 | ok |
| 04:33.47 | sreepriya1 | thank you |
| 04:34.02 | sreepriya1 | and can I edit even if I make a submission now ? |
| 04:34.36 | anth_r | yes. you can edit proposals up until the deadline. |
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| 04:37.50 | sreepriya1 | ok |
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| 08:39.02 | cusion | exit |
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| 08:53.23 | sese | hello , proposal cannot add image, has anyone faced that |
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| 09:51.52 | xchg | what timezone are the times in comments in? |
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| 10:51.07 | gevaerts | xchg: make a comment and find out! :) |
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| 11:00.43 | sumanah | Happy Sunday all. Hope |
| 11:00.50 | sumanah | That is, I wish you hope and strength! |
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| 11:04.02 | Naimads | Hi |
| 11:05.03 | sumanah | hi Naimads |
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| 11:06.53 | sumanah | Naimads: are you a GSoC applicant, or a mentor? (or neither!) |
| 11:07.12 | Naimads | Actually I applied once |
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| 11:08.26 | Naimads | Is it better to apply more than once in case organization won't pick me? |
| 11:08.55 | sumanah | !odds |
| 11:08.55 | gsocbot | sumanah: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 11:09.19 | sumanah | Naimads: So, I think there are a few factors. |
| 11:09.26 | sumanah | The very most important thing is the quality of your proposal. |
| 11:10.05 | sumanah | Just as you get more water if you dig one deep well instead of digging five shallow wells, similarly, if you spend a lot of time on one community and one proposal then then you will have a better chance of getting accepted. |
| 11:10.39 | sumanah | However, if you are genuinely interested in two different organizations, or two different project ideas, then it is okay to apply for two different things |
| 11:10.53 | sumanah | I hope that helps, Naimads |
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| 11:12.33 | Naimads | I think I found perfect project for me, so I better work on better application :) Thanks that helped. |
| 11:13.34 | sumanah | I'm glad to help! |
| 11:13.52 | sumanah | Naimads: think of it from the mentors' point of view |
| 11:14.08 | sumanah | what are they looking for, and how can you persuade them that you fulfill their criteria? |
| 11:14.32 | sumanah | How can you show them that you are diligent, responsive, a good listener, resourceful, and committed? |
| 11:15.11 | sumanah | For instance, reacting promptly and thoroughly to their criticism, using proper English, and so on - those are good signals to send |
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| 11:15.26 | sumanah | I have been a GSoC mentor and an organizational administrator |
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| 11:19.36 | sumanah | hi Kyzz , Nightrose |
| 11:19.58 | Nightrose | waves |
| 11:20.04 | Nightrose | how's it going sumanah? |
| 11:20.27 | sumanah | I'm all right Nightrose .... I woke up a bit early and decided to come onto IRC to help out people who are in the last weekend before applying to OPW & GSoC |
| 11:20.35 | Nightrose | \o/ |
| 11:20.43 | sumanah | (recently I've been trying to take weekends off but this weekend I think I can make an exception) |
| 11:20.52 | ipsi | Hello |
| 11:21.10 | Nightrose | sumanah: story of my life :P |
| 11:21.16 | ipsi | I needed a little help here |
| 11:21.24 | Nightrose | ipsi: do tell |
| 11:21.48 | vedant | I am having trouble attaching pictures to my proposal |
| 11:21.57 | ipsi | ok..I know v=basic programming in c and c++ |
| 11:22.12 | Aayush|Away | sumanah do my application need any improvement? |
| 11:22.16 | ipsi | Moreover i have made a vaey simple game in java earlier |
| 11:22.49 | ipsi | So i was wondering if i could apply for app development for tux4kids? |
| 11:22.57 | sumanah | Hi Aayush251! Link to it here so others can also give you feedback? |
| 11:23.05 | sumanah | hi vedant. What happens when you try? |
| 11:23.29 | vedant | please have a look https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/vedant/1# |
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| 11:24.00 | ipsi | As in i have an idea for a new app but i am not sure if c,c++, and java is enoughfor it |
| 11:24.06 | sumanah | vedant: I don't see a graphic. What happens when you try to add it? Do you get an error message? |
| 11:24.12 | Aayush251 | https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Aayush251/gsoc |
| 11:24.15 | Aayush251 | there you go |
| 11:24.23 | Nightrose | ipsi: i think you need to ask the org for that - only they can know :) |
| 11:24.34 | gevaerts | ipsi: you should really talk to the tux4kids people then |
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| 11:24.42 | vedant | No error message. I have filled in all the details of the dimensions and everything |
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| 11:25.06 | gevaerts | Also, you should make it a bit more clear that you know that c and c++ are two different languages :) |
| 11:25.15 | sumanah | vedant: by the way, "week 3: Improve documentation. Fix bugs that have been discovered over the weeks" that is not NEARLY enough time. In my opinion you should dedicate at least 3-4 weeks for this |
| 11:25.33 | sumanah | Aayush251: looking! |
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| 11:25.49 | vedant | thanks sumanah, i will correct that :) |
| 11:26.18 | sumanah | in general, I suggest students allot 1/3 of the work time to documentation, code review, bugfixing, integration testing and fixes, improvements in response to code review, merge, and so on |
| 11:26.27 | ipsi | Oh..Thnx Nightrose and gevaerts :) |
| 11:27.25 | sumanah | Aayush251: you probably have open source experience, in my opinion. Talk about whether you have ever filed a bug, or taught others how to use FLOSS, or written documentation..... |
| 11:27.41 | ipsi | What exactly is expected out of a proposal?? |
| 11:28.16 | sumanah | ipsi: have you read the student guide? |
| 11:28.21 | sumanah | !studentguide |
| 11:28.22 | gsocbot | sumanah: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 11:28.56 | ipsi | I ll try dat :) |
| 11:29.08 | vedant | sumanah I have corrected my proposal as you said but I am still having problem getting the picture displayed in the proposal |
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| 11:33.04 | sumanah | vedant: I don't work for Google and I don't have that much expertise on troubleshooting Melange :/ |
| 11:33.31 | sumanah | Aayush251: so, it sounds like you haven't laid out a schedule of how long you think it will take to do each part |
| 11:33.50 | sumanah | I know it's difficult for you to state dates until you get the datesheet regarding your finals |
| 11:33.57 | naruto_ | i have a very little bit of coding experience. Can i apply? |
| 11:34.08 | sumanah | Aayush251: but you still ought to start talking about how much time various steps might take |
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| 11:34.15 | sumanah | naruto_: Can you talk more about your "little bit"? |
| 11:34.26 | sumanah | naruto_: Different people say that and mean different things. :-) |
| 11:35.06 | naruto_ | i did a one semester course and a interactive quiz project in C language |
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| 11:36.21 | sumanah | naruto_: You can apply. Which of the mentoring projects is interesting to you? |
| 11:36.31 | sumanah | Do you use any open source software in your everyday life or your studies? |
| 11:38.20 | gevaerts | Is it possible *not* to? :) |
| 11:38.29 | sumanah | naruto_: If you want to apply for GSoC it's very useful to show in your proposal that you can learn quickly; so, for instance, looking at their database of problems (bug tracker) and solving a small, easy problem (writing a patch for a trivial bug) is a very good thing to do |
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| 11:38.59 | sumanah | gevaerts: It's possible, sure. However I figure part of the point of a conversation like this is to do consciousness-raising. |
| 11:39.19 | gevaerts | sumanah: it's not going to be easy though! |
| 11:39.28 | sumanah | Consciousness-raising? |
| 11:39.37 | gevaerts | No, not use open source software :) |
| 11:39.42 | naruto_ | Ok. thanks a lot. |
| 11:39.54 | sumanah | !studentguide | naruto_ |
| 11:39.54 | gsocbot | naruto_: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 11:39.55 | gevaerts | Raising consciousness is both possible and a good idea :) |
| 11:40.01 | sumanah | naruto_: Check that out. It'll help you. |
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| 11:40.33 | sumanah | gevaerts: Yup. I mean, I could be pedantic and say something like "are you aware that you use open source software a lot? name it" but that is offputting |
| 11:40.46 | gevaerts | True |
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| 11:42.53 | Aayush251 | Yes sumanah I'm working on schedule right now |
| 11:43.09 | sumanah | Aayush251: Great! I will probably give you a lot of feedback on that once you have it. :-) |
| 11:43.39 | gevaerts | sumanah: http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2012/05/16/300m-users/ is a nice example :) |
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| 11:45.13 | sumanah | I did not realize libcurl was in TV sets! |
| 11:45.33 | sumanah | btw gevaerts do you have any idea why vedant's graphic embedding in his/her GSoC application in Melange might be failing? |
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| 11:46.36 | gevaerts | No idea. I haven't actually used melange for the last year and a half, and I've never seen the student side, so I've never tried formatting things |
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| 11:49.40 | vedant | I have mailed the people of melange so let's see what happens |
| 11:53.29 | sumanah | Good luck vedant |
| 11:53.46 | sumanah | in the meantime, as a stopgap measure, you could put up the graphic somewhere else and link to it |
| 11:53.52 | sumanah | even if embedding does not work |
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| 11:57.44 | gevaerts | agrees |
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| 12:06.31 | banas | sumanah: Is it okay to post my proposal here to see if any of you could suggest improvements (if any) - already discussed with my mentor, she seems happy. Bust still, if there is anything I might have missed out? |
| 12:06.39 | sumanah | yes |
| 12:06.44 | sumanah | go ahead |
| 12:07.04 | sumanah | banas: and congratulations on being so eager to get feedback. That's a good sign |
| 12:07.04 | banas | I'll post the one from the Fedora wiki. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GSOC_2013/Student_Application_Sarupbanskota/Design_Hub(461) |
| 12:07.28 | banas | sumanah: Lol. thanks :) |
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| 12:08.41 | sumanah | banas: am I right in inferring that https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GSOC_2013/Student_Application_Sarupbanskota is sort of a cover letter? |
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| 12:09.14 | sumanah | banas: ok, a few things I would suggest, in sort of random order as I notice them: |
| 12:09.22 | sumanah | banas: your timezone and preferred working hours |
| 12:09.34 | sumanah | (because other people will want to know that to know when they can expect to find you on IRC) |
| 12:09.43 | banas | Something like that, yeah. Fedora makes it compulsory for people to maintain a page with those answers. |
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| 12:09.55 | banas | sumanah: Yep, that's a great point! |
| 12:10.34 | sumanah | banas: "As a starting point, I have made around 5 patches" link? |
| 12:11.05 | sumanah | "Emily(User:Emichan) and MáirÃn(User:Duffy)" in US English we have a space before a parenthesis |
| 12:11.06 | banas | the "pull request" has the link |
| 12:11.17 | banas | ok I'll edit that. |
| 12:12.06 | sumanah | hmm, then maybe you could just expand the link to include the "made around 5 patches" text |
| 12:12.08 | sumanah | to clarify |
| 12:12.26 | banas | Ok, I'll do that :) |
| 12:12.28 | sumanah | " I am familiar with primary Open Source techniques – issue tracking, mailing lists, basic revision control. " That's great, and it is even better if you name specific tools *in addition* to saying that you understand the principles as well |
| 12:12.59 | sumanah | "I spent the last in University volunteering at FOSS events organized by my seniors." do you mean the last term? missing noun there. :-) also banas I suggest you link to an example if possible |
| 12:13.25 | banas | Oops. Yeah. Wow, you are good at this :D |
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| 12:14.58 | sumanah | banas: I am glad to help. I am a pretty good editor. |
| 12:15.04 | sumanah | "I have built decent websites, and possess good design skills." Links would be great here! |
| 12:15.58 | sumanah | "I believe this will also help me develop an interesting and well laid-out documentation for the project. " Here a silly idiosyncrasy of English is tripping you up -- we don't say "a documentation" or "an interesting documentation". "Documentation" is the kind of noun that doesn't take those kinds of articles before it |
| 12:16.06 | sumanah | I hereby apologize on behalf of English |
| 12:17.20 | banas | Lol. Cool. I'll change that :) |
| 12:19.17 | sumanah | banas: can you link to your previous posts on the mailing lists? |
| 12:19.39 | banas | You mean, on the wiki, right? |
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| 12:19.52 | sumanah | I mean, within your proposal, can you link to any emails you have sent to the mailing lists? |
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| 12:20.23 | sumanah | that way you demonstrate to the reviewer that you have sent those emails, and that you can participate as a good communicator in open discussions |
| 12:20.24 | banas | yes, sure, I'll do that. |
| 12:20.32 | sumanah | "Currently, the only collaboration tools designers are forced to use is email and services such as DropBox/SparkleShare." can you see the singular-plural disagreement there? |
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| 12:21.10 | banas | so it should be "forced to use are.." |
| 12:21.11 | banas | ? |
| 12:21.20 | sumanah | yes! |
| 12:21.27 | sumanah | good job |
| 12:22.13 | sumanah | This is really really minor but "Services such as GitHub exist, but they are more inclined towards developers, and donÂ’t really apply to the designer, who is looking for a tool that allows visual editing of work on the fly, along with its maintenance. " I would ALSO add that one problem is that code-oriented revision control systems are terrible with non-text files, because the size of the repo just balloons up so huge and diffs are not useful. But th |
| 12:22.14 | sumanah | at is just my opinion |
| 12:22.24 | sumanah | (but that is just my opinion) |
| 12:23.02 | sumanah | "Have used Git for many of my personal projects" - I may have missed this, but did you link to those personal projects? (if they are public) |
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| 12:23.49 | sumanah | (by the way, overall, these are very minor points -- I am helping you to polish. I think this is a very good application so far. Although I haven't gotten to your timeline yet!) |
| 12:24.10 | sumanah | "There is no documentation yet - a complete documentation of whatever is built. " again, remove the "a" |
| 12:25.42 | banas | yes, I understand, sumanah :) It just so happens that I am used to reading the same thing over and over again, I tend to overlook any errors. |
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| 12:26.16 | banas | and nope, the git projects aren't public. :/ though I remember having linked to github somewhere.. |
| 12:26.38 | sumanah | When I look at your diagram and explanation, I wonder whether the "organization" abstraction level is really necessary, and maybe you could just add an example to clarify. I think an "organization" is sort of like a team, a loose confederation |
| 12:28.04 | sumanah | banas: " Multiple admins have the power to pull in and merge changes into their respective projects, as opposed to just one person being in charge of the project." You see the weird bulleting there? you can try fooling around with wiki markup to fix that. If you want a single indented bullet on that line try :* |
| 12:28.06 | sumanah | (I think) |
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| 12:28.38 | sumanah | "A lot of Open Source contributors use the OpenID" I think you would discard the article there. "A lot of open source contributors use OpenID". |
| 12:28.57 | sumanah | By the way, I'm happy to help edit and polish other people's proposals as well |
| 12:29.05 | sumanah | banas just asked; you can ask too |
| 12:29.57 | banas | yes, I was actually thinking ifI should change the weird bulleting because an image comes before it. will change now. |
| 12:30.39 | sumanah | banas: this is very very minor, but sometimes you capitalize Git and sometimes you don't. You could make that more consistent. (And thank you for properly InterCapping GitHub! I am pedantic enough to appreciate it) |
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| 12:31.19 | banas | sumanah: On the organization remark you made - do you think I should modify the definition? |
| 12:31.21 | sumanah | Similarly my nitpicking heart would appreciate it if you went through and checked capitalization on things like: Rails, RSpec, etc |
| 12:31.36 | banas | lo. cool, sure, I will look through them. |
| 12:31.46 | banas | I am just amazed at how quick you are at this :D |
| 12:32.04 | sumanah | banas: I think for THAT it would be worth talking with your mentor if you're actually going to change the definition. But adding an example would be great in any case. |
| 12:32.10 | sumanah | Thank you! |
| 12:32.20 | banas | sumanah: Have you worked on some sort of large scale editing job for a good amount of time? :D |
| 12:32.46 | sumanah | I've been blogging for more than ten years, and I've been editing other people's text for probably 20+ years. Starting when I was a child. |
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| 12:34.00 | banas | woah! That explains it! :) |
| 12:34.52 | sumanah | I think your iterative model is great IF YOU CAN STICK TO IT. I think it would be great for you to explain what you want to do if one of the development stages (within an iteration) goes way over. |
| 12:35.22 | sumanah | Especially -- where do you find it likely you might get stuck, especially regarding a dependency on someone else? Does that make sense? |
| 12:35.57 | sumanah | "What do we ask from the user / What do we give the user? (SRS) " What does SRS mean? You could just do a hover (broken underline) there to spell it out |
| 12:36.15 | sumanah | "Start work on the documentation." May as well link now! |
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| 12:36.57 | banas | Yes, it makes sense. That's a good point. I will think over it and change it :) |
| 12:37.33 | banas | And my Mentor and I were in the process of discussing where we start documentation, so I'll link it as soon as we start on it. |
| 12:37.35 | sumanah | "they're likely to bring me to a good momentum." you don't have to change this, but you might want to do a bit of searching around on the web to read other examples of how people use the word "momentum" |
| 12:37.47 | banas | I'll save a reminder, though. Thanks :) |
| 12:37.55 | banas | Ok cool :D |
| 12:38.17 | sumanah | banas: oh which PyCon will you be attending? I know one just happened in northern California |
| 12:38.45 | banas | The one in India. Happens in Bangalore. |
| 12:39.24 | sumanah | My parents are from Karnataka |
| 12:39.48 | sumanah | OK, banas, since you're in generally good shape, I am going to hit you with more advanced questions and suggestions now |
| 12:40.17 | banas | sumanah: Oh nice! :) Where do you currently live? |
| 12:40.24 | banas | sure, I will try my best. |
| 12:40.37 | sumanah | (there's more grammar/capitalization polish that you could benefit from but I think these advanced questions are more interesting) |
| 12:40.41 | sumanah | I live in New York City. |
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| 12:41.01 | banas | Oh cool :) Sure, I would love to ponder on them. |
| 12:41.20 | sumanah | banas: Security. What would the threat models be? |
| 12:42.08 | sumanah | Data loss/"oh no we actually have to delete this right now for legal reasons and also wipe all copies from everywhere." A feature to implement in this round? |
| 12:42.59 | sumanah | banas: Localisation/internationalisation/language support. |
| 12:43.24 | sumanah | (by the way https://www.novainfosec.com/2013/04/03/free-must-have-security-engineering-book/ in case you want a free intro-to-security-engineering book) |
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| 12:43.51 | banas | Umm, I am new to Rails and web apps. But I have learnt there are some security issues that I could encounter when I'm using sessions. |
| 12:43.57 | banas | I remember having bookmarked a link. |
| 12:44.16 | banas | But again, I think some gems like devise handle common problems. |
| 12:45.10 | sumanah | OK. If there is a security lead within the Fedora community, now would be a good time to contact him or her and arrange for a consultation so they could look over your design and talk about what to watch out for |
| 12:45.16 | sumanah | and build that into your schedule. |
| 12:45.21 | sumanah | Similarly for i18n. |
| 12:45.29 | banas | http://guides.rubyonrails.org/security.html this one. |
| 12:45.35 | banas | and thanks for that link : |
| 12:45.37 | banas | :) |
| 12:46.23 | sumanah | banas: Accessibility to people with disabilities. If there's an a11y team, reach out to them and consider building time into your schedule for at least mapping out the TODO list, even if it is not going to make it onto your 12 weeks of work. For instance, you'd be surprised how many designers are colorblind |
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| 12:47.35 | banas | Okay, that sounds like a really good idea. I will definitely discuss on this one. |
| 12:48.10 | banas | as for security, I once participated in a CTF, where I met a web security guy. I think I can talk to him too, he'll be able to help. |
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| 12:50.00 | sumanah | banas: you may not know this yet, but if you start off your project thinking ahead about i18n then you are going to be so much happier a year down the road |
| 12:51.08 | banas | Okay, I'll take that advice too :D |
| 12:51.13 | sumanah | and then banas I think there's one last thing that might be the hardest: talk about project risks. |
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| 12:51.41 | banas | Umm, what would a risk sound like? |
| 12:51.45 | sumanah | Try to think through what could cause your project to fail. And actually state them out loud. If you can talk about how you will mitigate those risks, great. |
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| 12:52.09 | sumanah | Off the top of my head: |
| 12:52.34 | sumanah | How likely is it that your computer, net, power, etc. will all be completely fine and functional for the entire length of the summer? |
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| 12:53.09 | sumanah | What if you show your prototype to the users whom you want to use this thing and they completely hate it? |
| 12:53.16 | banas | Oh, that kind of thing. |
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| 12:53.30 | sumanah | What if you find fundamental bugs in OpenShift that mean that your architecture cannot work? |
| 12:54.14 | banas | sumanah: Yes. I get the idea now. Especially the OpenShift bug's idea. Basically, what am I depending on, and what happens if they break. |
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| 12:54.24 | sumanah | You don't have to go into endless what-ifs. But I find it refreshing and candid when a proposal says "I am aware of these risks, and here is what I think is kind of likely and how I will try to prevent or deal with it" |
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| 12:54.41 | banas | yes, sounds good :) |
| 12:54.44 | sumanah | Yes! You have it. |
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| 12:55.12 | sumanah | OK, I think that's it from me. I hope your proposal works out. And as a treat: http://techchannel.att.com/play-video.cfm/2012/2/22/AT&T-Archives-The-UNIX-System (video autoplays) A video from the very early days of Unix. |
| 12:55.26 | sumanah | Good luck banas. |
| 12:55.39 | banas | Okay, woah. I should have pinged you much earlier. In 10 or so minutes, you came up with so many edits and ideas! :D |
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| 12:55.46 | banas | Thanks a lot, sumanah :) |
| 12:55.54 | sumanah | it was actually about an hour! |
| 12:56.13 | sumanah | banas: It's fine. I'm specifically hanging out here in #gsoc hoping to help people like you right now. |
| 12:56.21 | banas | Yeah? Lol. I didn't realize the time passed so quick :S |
| 12:56.47 | sumanah | is ignoring her spouse a lot today :) |
| 12:56.51 | banas | Haha. |
| 12:57.01 | banas | Yeah, one question I had to ask. |
| 12:57.39 | banas | How do you do that on an IRC channel. I am quite new, I don't know how to make "statuses" like those. |
| 12:57.52 | sumanah | Aha! ok. So you start the line like this: /me |
| 12:58.07 | banas | has learnt something new today. |
| 12:58.10 | sumanah | so in order to make it "*sumanah does this" I say /me does this |
| 12:58.11 | banas | nice :D |
| 12:58.11 | sumanah | Good job! |
| 12:58.43 | banas | Thanks sumanah. I will now go back and think about ways to make my proposal better. |
| 12:58.49 | sumanah | Thank YOU |
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| 12:59.23 | Brian__ | Hello |
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| 12:59.30 | sumanah | Hi Brian__ |
| 12:59.48 | Brian__ | Are there any Blender events in the US? |
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| 13:24.49 | sumanah | Anyone want feedback on their GSoC proposals? |
| 13:24.59 | gwty | sumanah:Yes |
| 13:25.06 | sumanah | gwty: Go ahead and give me the link |
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| 13:25.36 | gwty | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/gwty/1 |
| 13:26.32 | sumanah | ok, gwty, I'm going to give you a bunch of thoughts, in no particular order. |
| 13:27.12 | sumanah | First: punctuation. When you use a period . then you should have a space after it, like this: "I am made of cheese. How many ice cubes go into the drink?" |
| 13:27.44 | sumanah | gwty: Many times in your proposal you have no space after the period. Fix that. |
| 13:27.49 | gwty | sumanah:Ok. I guess that improves readability. |
| 13:27.56 | sumanah | It sure does! |
| 13:28.03 | gevaerts | sumanah: nice example :) |
| 13:28.09 | sumanah | And it gives the reader the impression that you care about details and doing things right. That is important. |
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| 13:30.24 | sumanah | gwty: similarly with commas , |
| 13:30.30 | sumanah | commas take a space after |
| 13:30.32 | gevaerts | Also colons |
| 13:30.44 | gevaerts | Basically any punctuation |
| 13:30.45 | sumanah | example: "In my apartment, I have many things: a chair, a book, a spouse." |
| 13:30.56 | sumanah | Well, gevaerts, no, because parentheses are different |
| 13:30.59 | sumanah | as are apostrophes |
| 13:31.06 | gevaerts | True |
| 13:31.22 | gevaerts | Somehow I tend not to think of those as punctuation. Not sure why |
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| 13:31.33 | sumanah | "How cool your computer is (the laptop, I mean). Your flower's okay too." |
| 13:31.41 | sumanah | gwty: does that make sense? |
| 13:32.19 | sumanah | gwty: in the sentence "In other KDE applications,the tags created by this project can be shared with rest of KDE through Nepomuk interface automatically. It then can be used in Dolphin to sort images according to Quality." you have sort of some odd highlighting going on. Can you fix that? |
| 13:32.38 | gevaerts | You seem to like capitalising words. I'm not sure if that's a good idea |
| 13:33.13 | gevaerts | e.g. "...affected by various factors, mainly Sharpness,..." |
| 13:33.20 | gevaerts | This is going to be debatable I suspect |
| 13:33.22 | gwty | sumanah: Yes |
| 13:34.09 | sumanah | gwty: Separate point: in my experience, you're going to need more like 3-4 weeks in testing and code review and fixing bugs in response to that review, merging your code, documentation, and so on |
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| 13:35.19 | sumanah | gwty: I see you have a section called "testing" |
| 13:35.40 | sumanah | "The project will be tested by users, released as a special feature, and changes to code will be made based on their feedback." But where is the part where the branch gets merged into the master branch? |
| 13:35.45 | sumanah | or are you working in master the whole time? |
| 13:36.07 | gevaerts | If you're serious about unit tests, don't write them at the end |
| 13:36.20 | sumanah | I second gevaerts's suggestion there. |
| 13:36.36 | vedant | sumanah thank you a great deal by reviewing student application and providing such fine comments. kudos :) |
| 13:36.37 | sumanah | another scheduling thing: "I intend to work late into the evening/night to make up for the lost time." Have you ever done that before? Does it affect your health or the quality of your work? What about your homework? |
| 13:36.48 | sumanah | Thank you vedant :-) |
| 13:37.12 | vedant | And I have fixed the problem of my application. looks better now https://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/vedant/1# |
| 13:37.32 | sumanah | Great, vedant! Glad you were able to fix it. What was the problem? |
| 13:37.50 | vedant | pictures were not being displayed |
| 13:38.05 | gevaerts | Well yes. Why? :) |
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| 13:38.14 | sumanah | I should say: what *caused* the problem vedant? |
| 13:38.24 | vedant | maybe you could do another "in-depth" analysis and comment some more :) |
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| 13:38.40 | vedant | Oh i thought you forgot |
| 13:38.57 | gevaerts | vedant: irc channels have long memories |
| 13:39.00 | vedant | well actaully the link to the picture wasn't a direct 1. it was a llink to the webpage |
| 13:39.02 | sumanah | vedant: if you can hang around for a while, I'll concentrate on gwty first, then get to yours. Sound ok? |
| 13:39.12 | vedant | perfect :) |
| 13:39.53 | banas | Hey vedant , can I pm? |
| 13:40.06 | sumanah | waits for gwty to acknowledge the last few lines of critique |
| 13:40.23 | gwty | sumanah: I fixed the punctuation errors |
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| 13:40.34 | vedant | ok |
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| 13:40.56 | sumanah | thanks, gwty! can you also fix that highlighting around "In other KDE applications, the tags created by this project can be shared with rest of KDE"? |
| 13:41.07 | gwty | sumanah:Yes. |
| 13:42.33 | gevaerts | gwty: I'd say the timeline needs a bit of work to deal with the testing/debugging issues sumanah and I pointed out, but definitely discuss the timeline with the organisation. Then there is the "full time" thing, which isn't a blocker but again something to seriously discuss with them. Apart from that, assuming the technical bits are OK (I have no clue about those), I think it looks fairly solid |
| 13:42.36 | sumanah | gwty: I personally prefer inline linking rather than footnotes. Do you have a reason you're using footnotes instead of directly turning the text into a hyperlink? |
| 13:42.48 | gwty | sumanah: Yes, I have worked late into the night. |
| 13:43.12 | gevaerts | thinks melange line spacing is too narrow |
| 13:44.08 | gwty | gevaerts: I have spaced out testing, as I thought people take time to test and respond. |
| 13:44.31 | gevaerts | gwty: well, there's user testing and your own testing |
| 13:44.44 | gevaerts | User testing obviously is rather late in the timeline |
| 13:44.58 | sumanah | gwty: if you have worked late into the night in the past, you should mention that in your proposal. Mentors want to see proof that you are not shooting yourself in the foot! |
| 13:45.20 | sumanah | gwty: have you heard of TDD? Test-driven development? |
| 13:46.03 | gevaerts | But you seem to have things like unit testing right at the end. I'm not going to argue that tests should be written before the rest of the code (I'm not convinced of that at all), but unit tests should be written more or less at the same time |
| 13:46.32 | gevaerts | The way your timeline looks now, I'm going to assume the unit tests won't be written at all |
| 13:46.52 | gevaerts | (because that's what *always* happens when they're supposed to be done at the end) |
| 13:46.56 | sumanah | gwty: vedant - both of you should add into your proposal the specific *working times* - the hours of the day you plan to be working - next to the timezone information. |
| 13:47.18 | gevaerts | Ah, yes. That's very useful to have |
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| 13:47.48 | sumanah | gwty: why do you use "his" to refer to the users? half the potential users are women. "her or his" or "their" would be better. |
| 13:47.59 | gevaerts | Ah, yes |
| 13:48.11 | gevaerts | sees that sumanah is a much more thorough reviewer than he'll ever be :) |
| 13:48.17 | vedant | you mean right in the beginning of the proposal? |
| 13:48.22 | sumanah | vedant: yes |
| 13:48.28 | vedant | ok will do that |
| 13:48.55 | gwty | sumanah:Ok. Will use his/her :) |
| 13:49.07 | gevaerts | vedant: "hard for someone to better the existing tag guesser" -> "improve" |
| 13:49.21 | gevaerts | likes nitpicking |
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| 13:50.11 | darnir1 | Would you mind terribly if I jumped in and asked to review my proposal too? |
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| 13:50.26 | chro | if I submit 2 proposals to the same org, how do I specify which project is my top priority ? |
| 13:50.36 | sumanah | gwty: by the way, in your proposal, can you at least briefly talk about consulting a user experience expert? |
| 13:50.44 | vedant | sumanah I am following the template given by KDE. I think this will break the template |
| 13:50.46 | sumanah | darnir1: sure! I shall do that after I look at vedant's |
| 13:50.50 | gevaerts | chro: by saying "I prefer this project"? |
| 13:51.02 | gwty | sumanah: I thought footnotes linking will help the reviewer focus on the proposal, rather than on the links. |
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| 13:51.05 | sumanah | vedant: then you can put it in "about me" or "participation" or something :) (also I think it's ok to break the template) |
| 13:51.06 | chro | gevaerts: inside the proposal? |
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| 13:51.13 | darnir1 | sumanah: Thanks! You and gevaerts seem to be doing a pretty thorough check. |
| 13:51.16 | darnir1 | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/darnir/1 |
| 13:51.19 | gevaerts | chro: or in the comments |
| 13:52.08 | vedant | I think I would put it in the "other obligations" section |
| 13:52.09 | sumanah | gwty: I can understand your thinking, but look at (for example) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Jarry1250/GSoC_2012_application#Past_open_source_experience . It's not distracting to have the links available right there. |
| 13:52.55 | gwty | sumanah: Is it necessary to mention its my own idea(ie, not on the ideas page)? |
| 13:53.06 | sumanah | gwty: Because the links are part of how you are demonstrating your expertise and competence, I strongly suggest you go with inline (to make it easier to follow); right now, for me, having to go to the footnotes is distracting for me! |
| 13:53.09 | gevaerts | vedant: as a first high-level comment, more paragraphs. It's hard for me (and presumably other people too) to read basically an entire page without any natural rest point |
| 13:53.28 | sumanah | gwty: Necessary? no. But I think it's helpful, and shows that you are a very motivated candidate |
| 13:53.47 | gwty | sumanah: No, I don't know TDD. I will look into it. |
| 13:54.12 | sumanah | gwty: You haven't actually fixed all the punctuation. For instance, look at "July 4-July 14:(Patching the Scan Interface)" (missing a space) and "I plan to integrate this project with the face detection tool to scan only that area containing the face.[Faster Algorithm]" (also missing a space) |
| 13:54.30 | sumanah | look for all the commas and colons - you're missing some spaces after them |
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| 13:55.00 | sumanah | gwty: So, we've given you a bunch of feedback. I think some of the key questions for you to address in your proposal are: |
| 13:55.11 | sumanah | * when are you going to consult a user experience expert to work on the visual design of the interface? |
| 13:55.21 | sumanah | * are you going to start off in a branch and then merge? when? |
| 13:55.36 | sumanah | * when are you going to write the unit tests? You need to allot time for that |
| 13:56.39 | sumanah | * what kind of documentation needs writing? a HOWTO for users? class documentation and architecture walkthrough for future developers? TODO? blog post? video tutorial? Once you think about that you will probably see that you need more than a week |
| 13:56.49 | gwty | sumanah: Punctuation errors are hard to spot. |
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| 13:57.14 | gevaerts | gwty: use regular expressions :) |
| 13:57.15 | darnir1 | gwty: On the contrary, they come out very easily. |
| 13:57.36 | sumanah | gwty: I'm going to move on to vedant now but I hope you address those concerns. Good luck! |
| 13:58.01 | gwty | sumanah: Thank you. |
| 13:58.05 | sumanah | You are welcome! |
| 13:58.25 | vedant | gevaerts any specific section or the entire application? |
| 13:58.26 | sumanah | vedant: OK! I agree with gevaerts that more breaking-up-into-paragraphs will make this more pleasant to read |
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| 13:59.38 | gevaerts | vedant: most of it. Timeline and further are fine spacing-wise, but everything before is a bit too dense |
| 13:59.51 | sumanah | vedant: "github" should be GitHub |
| 14:00.01 | sumanah | (this is going to be in somewhat random order, sorry) |
| 14:01.11 | sumanah | vedant: "I have no other obligations." But how are you going to make up the coursework that you miss for two months (mid-July to September)? How does that exception for GSoC students work? |
| 14:01.32 | chro | " I'm currently studying combined Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE) at the University of Oxford" |
| 14:01.34 | chro | interesting |
| 14:01.43 | sumanah | chro: Yeah, Harry is a very interesting guy |
| 14:01.44 | gevaerts | darnir1: "cURL also uses Python for their Test Environment". Really? |
| 14:02.22 | sumanah | vedant: so you have heard me tell others over and over again to allot more time for testing, bugfixing, documentation, merge, and so on. |
| 14:02.31 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Yes. |
| 14:03.15 | vedant | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.41 | sumanah | vedant: I think 4 weeks is better. |
| 14:03.46 | sumanah | (Personally.) |
| 14:03.56 | gevaerts | darnir1: I'll admit that the abundance of perl files and the lack of python files in the tests/ directory surprises me then |
| 14:04.16 | chro | that are guys that start working on April |
| 14:04.25 | chro | this is unfair, and it should be prohibited |
| 14:04.29 | sumanah | chro: That is a proposal from last year. |
| 14:04.42 | sumanah | chro: The schedule was very different last year. |
| 14:04.47 | chro | ok |
| 14:04.55 | darnir1 | gevaerts: They are making a switch to Perl, since a particular test uses a module which is not cross-platform. |
| 14:05.06 | sumanah | chro: But I also don't think it is unfair for people with free time to start earlier. |
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| 14:05.23 | sumanah | vedant: As I look through your timeline I see that there is specific testing, which is great! But did you see what I said to gwty about specific types of documentation? |
| 14:05.24 | darnir1 | Wget does not support that feature and hence does not need the module. Let me pull up the ML discussion on this. |
| 14:05.44 | chro | sumanah: but then they will have a great advantage over the other students |
| 14:05.51 | sumanah | Yes, and that is okay |
| 14:05.55 | tomprince | (Although often, testing should be done at the same time as coding, rather than after) |
| 14:06.21 | sumanah | chro: if you start contributing to a project in September, then you have a huge advantage over other students *because you are a more effective contributor*. That's fine. |
| 14:06.32 | vedant | sumanah I intend to document while writing the classes and improve it over all in the end |
| 14:07.14 | sumanah | vedant: Then you should say that in the schedule :) |
| 14:07.36 | chro | sumanah: it's not ok to consider a schedule beyond the GSoC program. |
| 14:07.47 | sumanah | chro: I disagree. |
| 14:07.58 | sumanah | vedant: "Do some code cleaning and fix bugs so that the new framework and features can be pushed into the master branch." if you wait until October for that merge into master then I can nearly guarantee you that the merge will be painfully delayed. |
| 14:08.02 | gevaerts | darnir1: I realise that this curl point is really minor, but I really can't find *any* evidence of major python use there |
| 14:08.22 | chro | so GSoC should be running during the whole year, and should not be called summer of code |
| 14:08.55 | gevaerts | chro: how are people supposed to deal withschedule issues then? |
| 14:08.58 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Okay. I pulled these details from a Mailing List discussion on curl-library. |
| 14:09.23 | sumanah | chro: Well, names are always oversimplifications. But also, think about it from the perspective of the mentoring organization. Do you think it is reasonable for them to prefer people who have shown that they have a genuine and continuing interest in the open source project? |
| 14:09.30 | gary_b | i started my proposed gsoc2013 project last october :p |
| 14:09.41 | darnir1 | I'll probably pull that line till I can find more concrete evidence to support it (If it is true, that is) |
| 14:09.43 | gevaerts | chro: also, you're free not to participate if you don't like the rules |
| 14:10.21 | chro | The criteria to distinguish students should be based on other factors, not on defining a schedule to start coding much earlier |
| 14:11.06 | gary_b | i dont think it is distinguished on starting much earlier, but hopefully its an indicator of commitment |
| 14:11.11 | darnir1 | gevaerts: To be specific I have used the data from this particular thread: http://curl.haxx.se/mail/lib-2013-04/0256.html |
| 14:11.17 | gevaerts | chro: some people don't have time for full-time work for the entire gsoc period, due to differing university schedules. You're now saying those people shouldn't get a chance at all |
| 14:11.38 | sumanah | chro: There are students who have school schedules that make it difficult to participate during the set period, so mentoring organizations can make allowances for that and be flexible. I'm fine with that. |
| 14:11.56 | vedant | thank-you so much sumanah, I am on it :) |
| 14:13.18 | chro | yeah, but that's different |
| 14:13.58 | gary_b | gsoc was the catalyst for open source contribution for me |
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| 14:14.16 | darnir1 | chro: Some of us actually like contributing to Open Source and work for the particular project year round. |
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| 14:14.29 | sumanah | chro: I think you and I just fundamentally have different conceptions of what all these activities are supposed to be. I'm going to concentrate on critiquing applications now |
| 14:14.30 | gary_b | thats why i think the program is excellent for open source and students and hope it always runs |
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| 14:15.05 | gevaerts | darnir1: ah, right. There is indeed one (recent) python file. For some reason the debian source doesn't have that. I think it's not a good idea to extrapolate from that though |
| 14:15.08 | sumanah | vedant: did you do something particular and custom to the line spacing or fonts in your proposal? in my opinion you should just go with the default |
| 14:15.25 | gevaerts | darnir1: I'd concentrate on curl having lots of tests, not on how they're implemented :) |
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| 14:15.55 | sumanah | vedant: More links would be great to show you've done your research and to help mentors evaluate your ideas. Example: "Getting tags from MusicBrainz is hard coded into the Amarok source code" - can you link to the specific file? |
| 14:15.59 | gevaerts | Although of course it might make sense to study them a bit |
| 14:16.04 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Oh. I'll make those changes then. Thanks! |
| 14:16.06 | chro | darnir1: that's fine, working the whole yeah for the project. But even though, I think in your proposal you should respect the GSoC schedule |
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| 14:16.51 | darnir1 | And yes, I'll be looking at the cURL Test Files to get an idea of what Tests I should include here. Wget desperately needs more tests to prevent regressions. Maybe that should go into my proposal.. |
| 14:17.01 | sumanah | vedant: "So, it'll be very time consuming for a programmer trying to add features even just to MusicBrainz since he will have to read and understand the code." not all developers are men. Use "they" or "s/he" or similar. |
| 14:17.41 | sumanah | vedant: similarly in the next paragraph and throughout your proposal - half the potential users are women, so don't just say "he". |
| 14:18.01 | darnir1 | chro: Often we are already working on a large task for the project. In that case, it makes no sense to stash it and work on something only for GSoC. Anyways, I'm not in here to argue on that. |
| 14:18.29 | sumanah | separately: "Currently, say when a user is listening to a particular song he realizes that some tags to the song are missing." I understand that when you are speaking this aloud it is natural, but in this proposal, a more readable way to say it is "Here's an example of this problem. A user is listening to a particular song...." |
| 14:19.38 | sumanah | vedant: "The meta data that has been updated" -- usually "metadata" is one word. |
| 14:19.39 | gevaerts | chro: in general, time spent on whining about what other people are doing is *not* spent on improving your own proposals, and therefore directly leads to reducing yout chances |
| 14:19.59 | sumanah | vedant: misspelling: Chormaprint |
| 14:21.00 | darnir1 | gevaerts: sumanah: Sorry for the change, but you *could* look at the Google Drive version, which I will be editing in real time according to your suggestions. |
| 14:21.01 | darnir1 | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TknRRDT_6fNu4c6x0B0b8ITZ39_e4vqwUN19DLH9Y0Q/edit?usp=sharing |
| 14:21.06 | chro | gevaerts: yeah I know. But ideas/projects were specially prepared with an adequate complexity for the GSoC period. If there is a guy that already did most of the project, than it should do something more. That's my opinion, but I would not argue that anymore |
| 14:21.24 | sumanah | vedant: your user interface -- it's a good thing you've thought about what the UI should look like, but if I were you, I would specifically allot time to work with the KDE user experience experts to make sure the GUI you make is *good* |
| 14:21.30 | sumanah | and accords with KDE's style guide |
| 14:21.43 | sumanah | vedant: does that make sense? |
| 14:22.05 | tomprince | chro: Certainly more would be expected of somebody already familiar with the codebase. |
| 14:22.14 | sumanah | darnir1: no prob! I'll look at that in ~15 min I think. |
| 14:22.25 | vedant | yes it all makes sense :) |
| 14:22.40 | darnir1 | Oh sure! I'll keep making changes till then. |
| 14:23.20 | sumanah | vedant: what is JJ? spelling it out or using a broken-underline hover explanation would be good |
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| 14:24.17 | tomprince | chro: And regardless of the size of the project, they would be expected to be working full-time, so have extensions, if they are done early. |
| 14:24.38 | gevaerts | darnir1: I think you need to explain a bit more why C isn't suited, especially if some developers have said they'd prefer C |
| 14:24.47 | sumanah | vedant: you may have already seen me talking with banas about some harder questions -- localisation (when you're writing user-facing interfaces then you need to think from the start about making sure you use translatable messages and not just strings) and accessibility to people with disabilities |
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| 14:25.32 | sumanah | vedant: KDE probably already has some guidelines on both of those topics -- if you can say in your proposal that you have read them and you can say something about how that affects what you are going to have to do, that will impress the mentors |
| 14:26.06 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Okay, I'll spend some more time on that then. I was afraid my application is already too long so I trimmed those sections. |
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| 14:26.24 | sumanah | darnir1: I have very very rarely seen an application that is really too long. |
| 14:26.37 | sumanah | And if you want you can split out appendices |
| 14:26.59 | sumanah | vedant: this is a minor prose issue, but where possible, I prefer to use active voice rather than passive voice. It's more engaging. |
| 14:27.02 | gevaerts | darnir1: also, "language is here to stay" may be true, but the main counter argument against "It's not backward compatible!" is "This is entirely new code" :) |
| 14:27.18 | sumanah | Example of active voice: "I will implement the getter." Passive: "The getter will be implemented." |
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| 14:27.57 | chro | tomprince: I agree with that. I just think that explicitly specifying dates on your schedule much earlier than the GSoC period is not much ethically correct. But ok. |
| 14:28.31 | sumanah | vedant: Sometimes it is more natural and readable to use passive voice when you are describing messaging and architecture, e.g., "displayed as soon as they are fetched via the TagGetter::Controller" - I think that is fine. But "Existing MusicBrainz code will be re-written according to the framework above." you may as well say "I will rewrite existing MusicBrainz code...." |
| 14:28.32 | darnir1 | gevaerts: I know. But I also guess that as time goes on more and more people will adopt Python3. The same way as we mark things deprecated and remove them completely after a sufficient amount of time as passed. |
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| 14:29.33 | sumanah | vedant: ok, I've given you a bunch of things to fix :-) and I need to eat breakfast. Hope this is helpful. After you address those feel free to ping me again |
| 14:29.35 | gevaerts | darnir1: all true of course, but I'd either ignore the python 2 vs 3 thing, or be complete :) |
| 14:29.47 | vedant | I have updated my proposal. Please have another look and tell me what all I have missed :) |
| 14:29.48 | tomprince | darnir1: I'm not sure that python3 is enough better than python2 for the cost of porting code to be worth it. |
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| 14:30.07 | vedant | ok sure. I will do some changes so that you can come back and have a look |
| 14:30.16 | vedant | Thanks a ton sumanah |
| 14:30.24 | sumanah | vedant: great. |
| 14:30.27 | sumanah | Back in ~10 min |
| 14:30.38 | gevaerts | Grrr. Google docs doesn't use the X selection buffer properly :( |
| 14:31.14 | darnir1 | gevaerts: tomprince: Okay, better not stir up a controversy. I'll simply mention that I'll use Python3. |
| 14:31.56 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Yeah I know. It's surprising how little support is actually provided by Google for GNU/Linux. |
| 14:32.25 | darnir1 | P.S.: I added a line on why a scripting language is a better option |
| 14:32.43 | gevaerts | darnir1: "The new Test Suite will be written on the same lines as the current one, so most people will not have a problem adapting to it." seems to conflict a bit with "I have myself struggled with writing tests for Wget on the current system". Are the issues with the current system really only due to people not liking perl? |
| 14:34.15 | darnir1 | gevaerts: It pretty much seems so. The exact words used on the mailing list were: "It is a hackish language." |
| 14:34.40 | darnir1 | And that "Every time I MUST, I learn it for 45 minutes, finish my job and unlearn it." |
| 14:34.54 | gevaerts | darnir1: ok then. Make really sure they like pythin then before you get started |
| 14:35.10 | darnir1 | gevaerts: It was suggested by the Maintainer. :D |
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| 14:35.20 | srinup | !logs |
| 14:35.20 | gsocbot | srinup: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 14:38.11 | gevaerts | darnir1: after all this nitpicking about what are really just details, now something more real: I think your timeline is too coarse. Most organisations like one or two week blocks, you have six week blocks |
| 14:38.23 | gevaerts | Also, don't postpone documentation to the end |
| 14:38.54 | gevaerts | Especially since you'll have proposed the architecture early on. Spend a tiny bit more time then, and you have most of the documentation done |
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| 14:40.30 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Yeah, I guess I should make a finer timeline. I was finding it a little difficult to break it into 1-week blocks. I'll give it another shot right now. |
| 14:40.49 | gevaerts | If you can't manage 1 week for everything, that's most probably fine |
| 14:40.57 | gevaerts | Six weeks is definitely too much though |
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| 14:41.37 | darnir1 | Also, regarding documentation, I have infact already started on it. Since, I will be writing this code whether I am selected or not, I figured I'll get started whenever I have the time. |
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| 14:41.50 | gevaerts | Right. Make that clear :) |
| 14:41.58 | darnir1 | I'll start working on it. |
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| 14:43.36 | gevaerts | Also, what sumanah has mentioned about every proposal so far, specify your usual online times. Your mentor probably already knows that, but wget being under the GNU umbrella (right?), I suspect there will be some people reading (and judging) your proposal who know neither you nor wget *that* well |
| 14:43.49 | sumanah | Back. And grateful to my husband for a very yummy omlet! |
| 14:44.13 | darnir1 | That's nice! |
| 14:44.23 | gevaerts | Sounds eggs-celent! |
| 14:44.26 | sumanah | Heh! |
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| 14:44.46 | sumanah | Also, anyone here who's a woman in India, you might be interested in this IRC chat that's happening in the next day or 2: https://techchicblog.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/irc-planning-meeting-to-promote-foss-among-women-in-india/ |
| 14:44.48 | darnir1 | gevaerts: I'll try and incorporate that somewhere in the proposal. I hadn't thought of it in that fashion. |
| 14:44.58 | sumanah | gevaerts: pm me the log of what I missed? |
| 14:45.20 | gevaerts | sure |
| 14:45.23 | darnir1 | sumanah: I'll publicize that in my institute. See if anyone is interested. |
| 14:45.47 | sumanah | darnir1: hey there. Did you see what I mentioned to vedant about passive voice versus active voice? |
| 14:46.03 | sumanah | darnir1: I'm looking at your proposal now. :) |
| 14:46.27 | sumanah | also, isn't wget great? It's such a wonderfully reliable and useful tool. I agree with you :) |
| 14:46.40 | darnir1 | sumanah: Yes I did. it's there on my to-do list of edits. That edit will take some time, so it's a little low on the list. |
| 14:47.30 | vedant | sumanah I am going to take a break now and have dinner :) |
| 14:47.41 | sumanah | enjoy vedant! |
| 14:47.46 | darnir1 | sumanah: Oh yes! Extremely reliable. Honestly, without wget, I wouldn't have been able to survive freshman year in my institute. Especially since I use Arch and nothing else could download the updates for me. |
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| 14:48.03 | sumanah | darnir1: got it. So, you might like to read http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000245.html and http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/10/26.html to help you think about scheduling |
| 14:48.52 | darnir1 | sumanah: Let me have a look at those. Thanks! |
| 14:49.08 | sumanah | darnir1: and I'll reiterate what I think I told some earlier folks: custom highlighting or font usage gets a little difficult to read :) |
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| 14:49.43 | sumanah | darnir1: links are wonderful things. Can you link to all your commits, bug reports, etc.? |
| 14:49.58 | darnir1 | sumanah: It's actually neither. I copied this from the melange page. And didn't bother removing the formaatting that got copied. |
| 14:50.06 | darnir1 | sumanah: I'll do that. |
| 14:51.08 | sumanah | darnir1: I have learned something today: that the proper name is "Wget" and not "wget" |
| 14:51.12 | darnir1 | Two whole articles on scheduling! Thank you so much for those! I need to bookmark these for mater. |
| 14:51.43 | sumanah | darnir1: "Research Lead, Code Innovation" (from https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-wget/2013-04/msg00003.html ) -- why not mention that in your proposal as well? |
| 14:52.29 | sumanah | When a mentor or reviewer is reading your proposal, they want signals that you are diligent, responsive, a quick learner, and genuinely interested in tech and open source. So mentioning that affiliation is a good thing to do |
| 14:52.31 | darnir1 | sumanah: I should? I'll add it. |
| 14:52.48 | darnir1 | Oh, didn't think of it in that way. |
| 14:53.05 | sumanah | "On August 4, my college re-opens for my last semester. However, having already finished my workload for the last semester, I will have ample free time on my hands to work nearly 40 hours a week during August-September." Wow, you have already finished all your coursework?! Why not just graduate early? Perhaps I don't understand something about your college/uni |
| 14:53.41 | sumanah | darnir1: this is a small pet peeve of mine: "GitHub", not "Github" |
| 14:54.37 | darnir1 | sumanah: I missed a word there! *Most*. I have only 2 courses to take and both are projects. So no actual courses as such. |
| 14:54.48 | darnir1 | I'll edit that. |
| 14:55.05 | sumanah | darnir1: Being specific about how much time you expect those things to take would be good. |
| 14:55.17 | sumanah | It would show forethought, which is something mentors want. |
| 14:55.51 | sumanah | darnir1: where are you going to put that weekly summary of your work? Blog? Mailing list? |
| 14:55.57 | darnir1 | sumanah: As mentioned, I believe I can still work 40 hour weeks during the time. Should I be more clear there? |
| 14:56.20 | sumanah | darnir1: I think you should be specific both about what you think you can do and about the other commitments and how long they'll take. |
| 14:56.36 | darnir1 | sumanah: Aah! I usually discuss everything I do on the Mailing Lists. Maybe I should add that. |
| 14:56.38 | sumanah | "Based on my previous experience, these projects will take n hours/week ...." |
| 14:57.02 | darnir1 | sumanah: Okay. I'll be more specific there. |
| 14:57.24 | sumanah | darnir1: see, this is where active vs passive voice is an important tool. "A weekly summary of work done / code written is proposed." If you had used active voice, it would have come naturally to you to specify where you would be putting it, because you'd have to search for the verb to use! |
| 14:57.39 | darnir1 | cannot keep up with making all those changes in real time. I'll simply keep listing them. |
| 14:57.54 | sumanah | For some it is useful to think about active voice as a kind of strong typing for English ;-) |
| 14:58.10 | sumanah | darnir1: yep, I know, I'm a firehose sometimes for these kinds of suggestions |
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| 14:58.25 | darnir1 | sumanah: That's an interesting thought. I'll actually keep that as a quotation. |
| 14:58.42 | darnir1 | sumanah: All the more better. The more the suggestions, the stronger my proposal. |
| 14:58.45 | gevaerts | The thing is that with active voice you have to do things, with passibe voice they merely have to be done, so you're allowed to try and get other people to do them :) |
| 14:58.47 | sumanah | GOOD REACTION. |
| 14:59.13 | sumanah | darnir1: It speaks well of you that you are seeking out bug reports :D A very FLOSSy attitude and a good one. |
| 14:59.16 | vedant | sumanah I am back. I am currently changing the passive voice to active. please get back to my application when you can :) |
| 14:59.27 | skoushik | sumanah: Do you think it's helpful to put up a reference of a project done by a different person? |
| 14:59.30 | sumanah | vedant: Tell me when you have addressed every one of the suggestions I gave you. |
| 14:59.34 | sumanah | skoushik: sure. |
| 14:59.58 | darnir1 | sumanah: Thanks! This is something I enjoy. |
| 15:00.01 | sumanah | darnir1: "A more extensive Test Environment" and similar capitalizations -- in general, ask yourself why you are capitalizing these things. |
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| 15:00.30 | darnir1 | If these things really matter, maybe I should add that I founded the G/LUG on my campus too. |
| 15:00.40 | sumanah | Proper nouns (such as names) should be capitalized ("Octavia Butler wrote the book _Fledgling_.") But if you just want to emphasize it, italics are better. |
| 15:01.00 | sumanah | darnir1: I think that would be a good thing to add. It shows that you are genuinely interested in FLOSS outside of the setting of GSoC. |
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| 15:01.29 | darnir1 | sumanah: I tend to capitalize words that are more important. I'll edit it there too. |
| 15:02.02 | sumanah | darnir1: In US English we don't usually do that; capital letters are reserved for special cases. (Ha, wordplay there - "cases") |
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| 15:02.52 | sumanah | skoushik: I'm not sure what you were asking. Do you want someone to link to a proposal that was accepted in a previous year? or are you suggesting that, within your proposal, you are interested in linking to a past project? |
| 15:02.53 | gevaerts | Using them randomly is a capital offense |
| 15:02.55 | darnir1 | sumanah: I should really pay more attention to these minute details. |
| 15:03.00 | sumanah | gevaerts: GROAN. :-) |
| 15:03.21 | sumanah | darnir1: If you get the details right in your proposal then you give the impression that you will also get details right during your internship. |
| 15:03.22 | gevaerts | :) |
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| 15:03.55 | darnir1 | True. |
| 15:03.56 | skoushik | sumanah: not necessarily a GSoC project. But a github link of a project related to one which I'm applying for. |
| 15:04.21 | sumanah | skoushik: Within your proposal, it is a good idea to show that you are aware of related work that you or others are doing |
| 15:04.41 | sumanah | It shows that you are a good researcher and are not going to needlessly reinvent the wheel |
| 15:04.56 | sumanah | darnir1: I agree with gevaerts that if you think thoroughly about what you actually want to achieve then you will be able to give more details in your schedule, which is good |
| 15:05.03 | skoushik | Right. Thanks! |
| 15:05.20 | gevaerts | darnir1: nobody's going to reject a proposal based on some capitals or passive sentences of course. The thing is that when having to decide between two equally good proposals, people will naturally go for the one that was slightly more confortable to read |
| 15:05.32 | darnir1 | sumanah: I saw an example of that today on a KDE proposal. It clearly stated that since most of the work is done on this project, I'll simply fork it and merge my changes upstream. |
| 15:06.39 | sumanah | (it's kind of depressing to know that, for many people in engineering courses, I'm the most useful writing tutor they've ever had) |
| 15:06.41 | darnir1 | sumanah: I'll increase the granularity of my schedule. The argument is *very* strong for it. |
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| 15:07.16 | sumanah | darnir1: speaking of forking and merging! In your proposal, have you allotted time for merge with master? |
| 15:07.40 | sumanah | "to understand completely all itÂ’s various features and quirks" you mean its, not it's |
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| 15:08.02 | darnir1 | Did I put an apostrophe there? It shouldn't be |
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| 15:08.40 | darnir1 | sumanah: Since it is a complete re-write from scratch, I didn't think there would be any merge conflicts to resolve. |
| 15:08.53 | sumanah | darnir1: ok. Saying that in the proposal would be good |
| 15:09.08 | sumanah | (in the schedule) |
| 15:09.40 | darnir1 | sumanah: Will add that. |
| 15:09.50 | darnir1 | thinks how many small things he's missed! |
| 15:10.16 | sumanah | darnir1: "I already have a couple of patches into master that includes adding a new feature (The --method command). The current project will allow me to improve development environment for the rest of the community. While the intended user base for this is small, it feels amazing to know that I will have contributed code that will allow others to write better and more stable code." Try reading that aloud and see how you feel about it. It will probably |
| 15:10.16 | sumanah | make you change a few things |
| 15:10.25 | sumanah | It will probably cause you to change a few things |
| 15:10.52 | darnir1 | I know.. I am terribly ashamed of my sentence construction and grammar in that paragraph. |
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| 15:11.09 | darnir1 | I'll rewrite that. |
| 15:11.21 | sumanah | We all have to learn somehow! |
| 15:11.35 | sumanah | Mistakes are fine as long as you respond constructively. :) |
| 15:12.00 | gevaerts | It's almost impossible to find all your mistakes yourself, even if you'd see exactly the same things in someone else's text right away |
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| 15:12.32 | sumanah | In general darnir1 after you finish addressing all our suggestions, try reading your prose aloud. I've often found that helpful in finding snags and places where I would like to reword things. |
| 15:12.53 | darnir1 | sumanah: Honestly speaking. I usually take pride in the fact that my language is pretty good. I don't make these mistakes that often. Which is why, it hurts to see where 4 years of engineering has taken me. |
| 15:12.59 | sumanah | (and yes, it has to be you, don't just hook it up to text-to-speech) |
| 15:13.23 | sumanah | darnir1: I don't know if you have this expression, but: don't beat yourself up |
| 15:13.41 | sumanah | your prose is way better than a lot of people's. |
| 15:13.59 | darnir1 | I'll just start writing more. Get back the hang of things. |
| 15:14.31 | sumanah | I was born and raised in the US *to two parents who edited poetry and magazines* and I was an editor on my school newspaper for many years, and I got into GNOME via writing and editing for the GNOME Journal. I am very very good. Don't compare yourself to me. |
| 15:14.54 | darnir1 | I'll take about 30 minutes to get done with these suggestions. Then I'll be back. |
| 15:15.03 | sumanah | That's it! Deliberate practice. |
| 15:15.06 | sumanah | Cool! Good luck. |
| 15:15.08 | darnir1 | sumanah: Where's the fun if you don't compete with the best? |
| 15:15.14 | sumanah | darnir1: :D |
| 15:15.33 | sumanah | OK, then I'll modify my statement to -- compare yourself to me *as a goal* but don't feel bad that you're not there yet. |
| 15:15.34 | darnir1 | BTW, I thought you mentored for MediaWiki. |
| 15:15.46 | sumanah | I do mentor for MediaWiki. But I used to be more of a GNOME contributor. |
| 15:15.58 | darnir1 | Oh. |
| 15:16.17 | sumanah | If you want my origin story you can check out http://adainitiative.org/2012/06/sumana-harihareswaras-be-bold-an-origin-story-keynote-at-open-source-bridge/ a speech I gave (text & video available) |
| 15:16.40 | darnir1 | I'll look it up. |
| 15:16.44 | sumanah | OK, anybody want a proposal critique? Sounds like I don't have anything in the queue. :-) |
| 15:17.14 | darnir1 | I'll be back in a few for a second bout. |
| 15:17.18 | sumanah | True! |
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| 15:22.21 | sumanah | Anyone want feedback on their GSoC proposals? |
| 15:23.21 | ashmew2 | sumanah, yes , im finishing up in a while , will you be online for some more time? |
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| 15:23.39 | ashmew2 | is wikimedia a good place to write a wiki page about your proposal , sumanah ? |
| 15:23.40 | sumanah | ashmew2: I'll be on and off for several more hours. |
| 15:23.45 | ashmew2 | sumanah, Great |
| 15:24.07 | Aayush251 | sumanah I've made some changes to About me and participation |
| 15:24.10 | sumanah | ashmew2: Please read this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipmediawiki to help make sure you're using the right word. I think you mean mediawiki.org ? |
| 15:24.12 | Aayush251 | please have a look https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Aayush251/gsoc |
| 15:24.34 | ashmew2 | sumanah, yes i meant mediawiki.org. NOT wikimedia. |
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| 15:25.00 | sumanah | ashmew2: I would encourage you to put up a version of your proposal on your mentoring project's wiki. Does your mentoring project have a wiki? |
| 15:25.14 | sumanah | Aayush251: OK, I'm going to give you a bunch of feedback in no particular order, hope that is okay |
| 15:25.38 | Aayush251 | Its okay :) |
| 15:25.38 | ashmew2 | sumanah, yes it does. Ill ask on the channel if thats what i should do. |
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| 15:26.08 | Aayush251 | Actually thank you for working on sunday for us :) |
| 15:26.15 | sumanah | Aayush251: the hugest thing is that you really need to talk about what you are going to accomplish and how long each thing will likely take. I know you are waiting for the dates of your finals, but even without that date you still have a lot of information you can provide |
| 15:26.31 | sumanah | examples: in what *order* will you work on the deliverables? |
| 15:26.55 | sumanah | what will you do to ensure the quality of the software? (unit tests? manual testing? automated browser tests?) |
| 15:28.09 | sumanah | (Aayush251: I'm glad I can help. I am trying to take weekends off more often these days but this is a special Sunday.) |
| 15:28.41 | sumanah | Aayush251: You have a lot of little punctuation errors. For instance, can you see the spacing error in "I have good understanding of C, Java, PHP, MySQL,HTML/CSS."? |
| 15:29.18 | Aayush251 | I'll check it out using word |
| 15:29.31 | sumanah | similarly, there are multiple spacing errors in "I will also use Wikitech-I and Wikidata-I mailing list if I still need help .Source code will be under my Github account and blog too ." Can you spot them? |
| 15:30.07 | sumanah | Aayush251: Within your browser there may be some kind of automatic spelling or grammar checker you can turn on for textareas. Maybe you should try that. |
| 15:30.10 | Aayush251 | yeah help and source |
| 15:30.31 | sumanah | Aayush251: there's another spacing error you haven't spotted. Look again. |
| 15:31.00 | sumanah | Hint: it's the same as the spacing error in "This is my first time working on an open source project ." |
| 15:31.42 | sumanah | Aayush251: in the Past Open Source Experience section, please link to your previous posts to the mailing list, bug reports you've made or commented on, patches you have submitted, and so on (for MediaWiki). |
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| 15:32.19 | Aayush251 | I dont have any . |
| 15:32.28 | sumanah | Aayush251: Another spacing issue: "Location: New Delhi, India ( GMT+5:30 )" When you use parentheses in English, you don't put spaces after the opening paren or before the closing paren. So you should have said: "Location: New Delhi, India (GMT+5:30)" |
| 15:32.51 | sumanah | Aayush251: Please be clearer - what do you mean when you say "I dont have any ."? |
| 15:33.00 | Aayush251 | yup fixed them. |
| 15:33.24 | Aayush251 | I mean I haven't made any changes to mediawiki yet |
| 15:33.29 | Aayush251 | though I am working on one bug |
| 15:33.33 | sumanah | Aayush251: if you do a control-f for " ." you'll see you haven't fixed all of them yet. |
| 15:33.46 | sumanah | Aayush251: Then you should say that you're working on it, and link to it. |
| 15:34.00 | Aayush251 | allright |
| 15:34.07 | Aayush251 | and fixed the puntuation everywhere |
| 15:34.10 | sumanah | Aayush251: Past Open Source Experience includes classes you've taught, bugs you've filed, documentation you have written, and so on |
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| 15:34.47 | Aayush251 | Oh |
| 15:35.01 | Aayush251 | So I've taken seminars on windows phone app development |
| 15:35.06 | Aayush251 | can I add that? |
| 15:36.27 | sumanah | Aayush251: I think I would put additional educational coursework taken in "about me" |
| 15:36.45 | sumanah | Aayush251: Open source is about sharing and making together. |
| 15:37.33 | sumanah | Aayush251: In http://www.linkedin.com/pub/aayush-sharma/69/431/647 I see that you've spent some time as a Microsoft Student Partner making apps. Are any of those apps open source? |
| 15:37.45 | Aayush251 | Nope |
| 15:37.49 | Aayush251 | only by me |
| 15:38.09 | sumanah | Aayush251: I mean, are they licensed under an open source license such as GPL, MIT, BSD, or Apache? |
| 15:38.17 | srinup | Microsoft and opensource in a single line, makes me wonder |
| 15:38.26 | vedant | sumanah I am done making changes. Have a look when you can and tell me what I've missed and what more have you found ;) |
| 15:38.30 | Aayush251 | yeah exactly |
| 15:38.34 | sumanah | Microsoft does support some open source work, srinup |
| 15:38.44 | sumanah | CoApp, for instance |
| 15:38.48 | Aayush251 | Though I have taken many seminars in different colleges about html 5 |
| 15:38.50 | tomprince | srinup: They have code in the linux kernel, among other things. |
| 15:38.52 | srinup | *some* |
| 15:38.55 | sumanah | Aayush251: what does "yeah exactly" mean? |
| 15:38.57 | Aayush251 | I guess it qualifies as open source? |
| 15:39.14 | sumanah | Aayush251: If I were you, I would put *seminars I have taken* in "about me" |
| 15:39.16 | Aayush251 | I mean I dont think anything related to microsoft can be open source |
| 15:39.20 | sumanah | Aayush251: You are wrong. |
| 15:39.24 | Aayush251 | since they charge for using their api |
| 15:39.36 | sumanah | Aayush251: There are open source apps for Windows Phone, for instance. |
| 15:39.48 | sumanah | If Wikimedia puts out a Windows Phone app, for instance, it would be an open source app. |
| 15:40.01 | sumanah | Just as our iOS and Android apps are open source. |
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| 15:40.40 | sumanah | And http://www.outercurve.org/ is something Microsoft founded to help aid open source. |
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| 15:41.45 | Aayush251 | was wrong |
| 15:41.59 | sumanah | Aayush251: Also, it's possible for a project by a single person to be an open source codebase; "open source" means that other people *can* read the code and contribute, not necessarily that they do. |
| 15:43.54 | sumanah | so Aayush251 I think you have a lot of work to do |
| 15:43.59 | Aayush251 | Yup |
| 15:44.14 | sumanah | the hugest thing is simply writing up the giant TODO list for the 12 weeks :-) |
| 15:44.55 | sumanah | I could give you a bunch of other nitpicking criticism and I'm sure I will at some point, but you really need to fix the things I've mentioned, so go do that :-) |
| 15:45.12 | sumanah | ok, vedant - link? |
| 15:45.13 | srinup | admires sumanah's patience :) |
| 15:45.19 | sumanah | thank you srinup! |
| 15:45.27 | sumanah | I learned a lot of it from Seth Schoen, the guy who got me into FLOSS |
| 15:47.00 | Aayush251 | Okay so I'll upload my code for app in github |
| 15:47.11 | Aayush251 | and link it in the open source section right? |
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| 15:47.49 | sumanah | vedant: "Say when a user is listening to a particular song he realizes" you're still using "he" instead of gender-neutral language. This is a signal that you haven't actually addressed all of my feedback. Look at your logs and look at everything I told you, fix it, then come back. |
| 15:48.07 | sumanah | Aayush251: That makes sense! Make sure to actually specify a license on your GitHub repository. |
| 15:48.12 | jashd | hi, can anyone give me some feedback regarding my proposal? |
| 15:48.17 | sumanah | jashd: Yup! I can do that now |
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| 15:48.50 | jashd | thanks |
| 15:49.03 | sumanah | hi jashd |
| 15:49.09 | jashd | hi |
| 15:49.16 | sumanah | is it ok for your fellow applicants to also look at your proposal? |
| 15:49.33 | jashd | ok |
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| 15:49.56 | vedant | sumanah I left only that paragraph since it is like a case study. even here you want me use gender-neutrality? |
| 15:50.04 | sumanah | jashd: ok, then go ahead & paste the link here :) |
| 15:50.15 | jashd | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NucTfg4Uhsa7WFyPokHHSwQbWlfkGf9ajwdFjVznXj8 |
| 15:51.23 | sumanah | vedant: "A user will want these tags to be fixed but it will be a real pain to do this one by one. If he clicks on the “guess tags from file” he is greeted by another dialog that takes a long while to understand. Its likely that he will just close this dialog." you keep doing it |
| 15:51.38 | sumanah | if you have multiple "case studies" then switch genders between them |
| 15:51.41 | sumanah | the first one he, the second she |
| 15:51.45 | sumanah | or vice versa |
| 15:52.06 | meflin | or just use she |
| 15:52.14 | vedant | sorry sumanah. will fix them. but the case study paragraph is ok right? |
| 15:52.53 | gevaerts | vedant: just don't use "it", or *everyone* will be upset |
| 15:53.01 | sumanah | vedant: I can see various ways to improve it. Also, vedant did you add anything to your proposal regarding talking to a designer? |
| 15:53.11 | sumanah | jashd: so, I can see that you are very experienced, and that's great |
| 15:53.46 | Aayush251 | btw sumanah should I upload the till to now completed proposal on GSoC site? |
| 15:53.47 | jashd | I am not sure if my proposal addresses all necessary issues |
| 15:53.48 | sumanah | jashd: linking to your past work would be great |
| 15:53.53 | Aayush251 | or wait for it to be fully finished |
| 15:53.54 | jashd | or if I'm missing something |
| 15:54.06 | sumanah | jashd: it doesn't address everything, no. I'm going to give you a bunch of suggestions :-) |
| 15:54.29 | jashd | thank you |
| 15:54.46 | sumanah | Aayush251: Melange may crash at the 'last minute', so don't wait. |
| 15:54.51 | meflin | Aayush251: you can edit it latter and get direct feedback |
| 15:55.03 | sumanah | Aayush251: And you can update your Melange proposal as many times as you want before the deadline. So go ahead and upload the draft now. It's better than nothing |
| 15:55.31 | vedant | yes i did. its at the beginning of the 2 the GUI points under implementation details |
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| 15:56.10 | sumanah | jashd: You are aiming to persuade the mentors that you are a diligent, responsive, competent, resourceful person. Since you have already accomplished various neat things, you should link to them, as proof of this |
| 15:56.43 | sumanah | vedant: but you haven't put it into the schedule |
| 15:57.03 | jashd | ok, I will do that. |
| 15:57.05 | sumanah | also, it's not just Amarok developers that you need to talk to, it's the KDE design team |
| 15:57.40 | sumanah | jashd: "For the period of GSoC, I only have to finish a paper (part of my PhD) to submit to a conference in June, which can be surely conciliated with the GSoC project." more specifics about how much time this will take would be very good and reassuring |
| 15:57.52 | vedant | oh yes. I will put it during the "bonding period" |
| 15:58.08 | vedant | I am finding it very hard to remove the its |
| 15:58.32 | vedant | again I used it |
| 15:58.50 | jashd | ok, I will try to elaborate that a bit more |
| 15:59.09 | sumanah | jashd: If you have already talked to a mentor who is interested in mentoring you, you should mention that somewhere |
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| 16:00.22 | sumanah | jashd: I personally think you should also specify your timezone and your work hours (what times you will be online) and how you will keep in communication with the rest of the TAJO or Apache community -- IRC? mailing lists? regular blog entries? Weekly videoconference? |
| 16:00.24 | jashd | sumanah: I already talked with a person that is responsible for the issue I'm interested in, but I am not sure if he is a mentor or not. I will talk with him about that |
| 16:01.09 | jashd | very good idea, thanks |
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| 16:01.36 | sumanah | jashd: So, the schedule -- I understand that for something as highly mathematical as this it might be a little difficult to specify what you will do during the implementation phase and how long each bit will take. But it will reassure the proposal reviewer if you can say that you've done something of similar complexity within a similar timeframe before |
| 16:03.00 | sumanah | If you speak multiple human languages it might be nice to put that in your background, but it's very optional :-) (I am just enjoying reading English written by someone who has obviously had a lot of practice with it!) |
| 16:03.22 | sumanah | However you have a few slip-ups, e.g., "This works good when memory is small." I think you mean it works well |
| 16:03.55 | sumanah | "works similar like grace" should be "works as grace does" or something like that |
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| 16:04.27 | sumanah | "To avoid rescanning the entire relations" if relations is plural, maybe "all the relations"? |
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| 16:06.47 | sumanah | I am feeling refreshed because you use commas and so on properly :) |
| 16:07.16 | jashd | thanks for the suggestions, I'm doing the corrections right away |
| 16:07.30 | sumanah | although "Hash join keys and probe the hash table for each tuple of the larger relation, of the same partition loaded in (5)." feels a bit odd and perhaps could be reworded or repunctuated |
| 16:07.46 | sumanah | "If there is a match, the result tuple is outputted, otherwise the next tuple of the larger relation is checked." I think you mean to use a semicolon there, not a comma, in the middle |
| 16:08.19 | jashd | but here "To avoid rescanning the entire relations" I meant something more like: "To avoid rescanning both the entire smaller relation and larger relation," |
| 16:08.44 | sumanah | When you say "design the hybrid hash join" - what will the end product of that stage look like? a diagram? a specification document in English or UML or something? |
| 16:09.21 | sumanah | jashd: I think it's ok to just spell out the thing you meant. It's not too long. |
| 16:09.51 | sumanah | "the hybrid hash join algorithm first partitions both relations, via a hash function, and write these partitions out to disk" -- you mean to use "writes". |
| 16:10.36 | sumanah | When you mention a proper noun such as Cassandra or HBase you should be consistent in how you capitalize it. |
| 16:11.07 | jashd | It could be a diagram/fluxogram |
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| 16:11.59 | sumanah | When you mention that you want to keep contributing to TAJO after the end of September, it will help prove this if you give an example of the kind of thing you'd like to keep working on. Bugfixing/maintainership? Giving talks or teaching people to use TAJO? Integrating it or adding plugins for other software? |
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| 16:12.53 | sumanah | vedant: ^ that last comment is something you should consider as well :) |
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| 16:13.49 | sumanah | vedant: did you end up adding anything about accessibility in your proposal? |
| 16:14.26 | sumanah | also vedant I'm not sure whether you saw this but in the second paragraph of "A GUI for getting tags of multiple songs simultaneously" the line spacing changes in a strange, unpleasant way |
| 16:14.35 | sumanah | maybe the fontsize? |
| 16:14.42 | jashd | OK, I will do that, I have a couple of optimizations I already discussed with the guy, I will add them to the proposal |
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| 16:15.07 | jashd | Thank you very much for your precious and detailed feedback :) |
| 16:15.31 | sumanah | jashd: I'm glad I can help. And by the way please tell your research colleagues about http://software-carpentry.org/ and about https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Data |
| 16:16.09 | sumanah | the former is a set of HOWTO tutorials and videos that will help academics who aren't used to good software development practices but need to learn |
| 16:16.31 | sumanah | the latter is Wikimedia datasets that not enough researchers know about! |
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| 16:18.13 | jashd | very useful indeed :) |
| 16:18.16 | sumanah | jashd: "Sept 2 -16: Final project submission to google" It will take you ~30 minutes to tar up your codebase and put it on code.google.com with the appropriate metadata. At most. So I suggest that you allot that time to something more useful such as additional bugfixing, post-merge documentation of TAJO as a whole, or an as-time-permits additional feature |
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| 16:19.55 | vullnetyy | hello |
| 16:20.01 | sumanah | oh btw jashd do you plan on doing any benchmarking or performance tests to see how much your improvement helps TAJO? |
| 16:20.03 | sumanah | hi vullnetyy |
| 16:20.21 | jashd | well noted, I will add that |
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| 16:20.36 | sumanah | jashd: if you already have any estimates of how much you think this will help, that would be cool to add. |
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| 16:20.50 | vullnetyy | does any1 know if I need to propose my own project for GSoC or do I pretty much apply for the mentor organization and they will give me a project? |
| 16:20.59 | sumanah | !studentguide | vullnetyy |
| 16:20.59 | gsocbot | vullnetyy: "studentguide" is http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ |
| 16:21.17 | sumanah | vullnetyy: read that. It will explain the situation regarding proposing your own project versus starting from the mentor's idea. |
| 16:21.24 | vullnetyy | thnx |
| 16:21.28 | sumanah | Good luck! |
| 16:21.33 | vullnetyy | thank u very much |
| 16:21.46 | vullnetyy | im trying to get involved with a project on information security |
| 16:21.50 | sumanah | I guess I have gotten as far as I possibly can in critiquing jashd's proposal without having the faintest idea what TAJO is |
| 16:21.52 | sumanah | looks it up |
| 16:21.54 | jashd | sumanah: this is an algorithm well-known for being the best. There are already several benchmarks doing all kinds of comparisons. |
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| 16:22.19 | gevaerts | being the best at *everything*? ;) |
| 16:22.27 | gevaerts | asks it to make pancakes |
| 16:22.43 | sumanah | jashd: OK. Referring to those benchmarks and saying that you would expect n% improvement, or something like that, would be a good idea |
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| 16:23.37 | jashd | sumanah: for being the best join algorithm. Anyway, I think I can do some performance measures with TAJO, yeah, it's a good idea |
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| 16:24.36 | sumanah | jashd: so I see that this proposal would address https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAJO-35 -- you should link to that |
| 16:25.26 | jashd | ok |
| 16:25.43 | sumanah | jashd: and I see that the end goal here is to take advantage of more available memory -- if you can do something to test for that and then check again at the end to ensure that you've improved regarding those success measures, that would be great |
| 16:26.36 | sumanah | jashd: do you speak Korean? |
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| 16:27.00 | jashd | actually I think that is very important now that I'm thinking further of it |
| 16:27.10 | jashd | sumanah: no, why? |
| 16:27.39 | sumanah | jashd: I was skimming around the TAJO issue tracker and saw a lot of Korean names, so I thought that if you did, it would be worth mentioning :-) |
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| 16:28.17 | sumanah | jashd: and then I think a few last things I'll mention as overall suggestions: |
| 16:28.39 | codess | Hi everyone , if a person is enrolled in a valid institution as of May 27 , 2013 but has to commence employment at some other organisation during the course of the period , is there any legal aspect in the gsoc agreement that prohibits such a person from applying to gsoc ? Please help |
| 16:28.40 | sumanah | * show a plan for testing this *on a variety of hardware* |
| 16:28.58 | sumanah | codess: I think I'm going to wait for someone from Google to answer you. |
| 16:29.20 | codess | Yeah sure , I really need help on this. |
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| 16:29.43 | sumanah | jashd: * show an awareness of what else is going on in the TAJO & Hadoop communities for the next few months and whether you are going to be depending on people who will be very busy, whether what you are doing also serves towards an urgent goal they have a deadline to meet, etc. |
| 16:29.46 | gevaerts | codess: employment as in not having time for gsoc? |
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| 16:30.47 | sumanah | jashd: * as I said before, linking is good -- linking especially to past patches and bug reports and docs you've made is great. OK to be very detailed here :-) |
| 16:31.15 | jashd | sumanah: even if they are not much related with TAJO? |
| 16:31.16 | sumanah | jashd: * if you've discussed this with individuals, say so, and name them |
| 16:31.33 | codess | Well, yes full time employment at some other organisation. But in this case , the dates of joining are near the pencils-down dates . And since I have been working with the org before , I know that I will be able to complete the project well before that. |
| 16:31.35 | sumanah | jashd: yes. Because you're demonstrating that you understand how FLOSS works, how to make a patch, how to write a good bug report, etc. |
| 16:31.41 | codess | gevaerts: ^ |
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| 16:32.06 | jashd | I see |
| 16:33.08 | codess | gevaerts: Is it violating the gsoc agreement or something , even if I complete my project and submit my required code to the org well before pencils down ? |
| 16:33.10 | sumanah | jashd: As a mentor, I'd rather be able to tell the difference between someone who has made good patches elsewhere, and shown that they are not afraid of speaking up on public mailing lists, etc., and someone who has the exact same qualifications and idea but I'll have to teach them from scratch how to do all of those things |
| 16:33.16 | codess | and then join ? |
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| 16:33.24 | gevaerts | codess: I can't give an official answer (those who can tend to take weekends off), but I suspect there's nothing in the rules that would prevent that, *but* you need to make sure the organisation knows about any possible schedule issues in advance |
| 16:33.49 | sumanah | codess: you could email the Google Open Source Programs Office team to check and ask for an official answer |
| 16:33.52 | sumanah | they are very responsive |
| 16:33.57 | gevaerts | For an official answer, send an email to carols or ask in here tomorrow, after more or less this time |
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| 16:34.08 | codess | gevaerts: sumanah Ok, cool, thanks :) |
| 16:34.15 | jashd | sumanah: but will students be required to speak in public ? I would like that |
| 16:34.41 | sumanah | jashd: well, when I say "speak in public" I'm talking about stuff like IRC, public mailing lists, public bug trackers, public code review.... |
| 16:35.01 | jashd | oh right |
| 16:35.08 | gevaerts | codess: at first sight it sounds fairly similar to people who have summer vacations that don't line up nicely with gsoc and have to find workarounds. That's fairly common |
| 16:35.18 | sumanah | jashd: If you are also comfortable giving speeches in person, at conferences and so on, then that's great, and that is a good signal that you will be okay also sharing your work in public and opening it up for criticism |
| 16:35.54 | sumanah | jashd: Unfortunately there are many GSoC applicants who have not yet gotten used to the idea of sharing their work in public and dealing with criticism from strangers |
| 16:36.14 | jashd | I see |
| 16:36.28 | sumanah | jashd: and last: if you can talk at all about project risks -- things you are depending on that might break or cause delays or problems -- that would be great |
| 16:36.31 | codess | gevaerts: Yes. Thats true. Thats why I have made it a point to read up on stuff an prepare myself prehand . Also , a good thing is that joining is just a week before pencils down , and I can be more or less done by that time. |
| 16:37.09 | gevaerts | Yes, you should be able to find a solution for one week |
| 16:37.40 | sumanah | like, what if there are fundamental problems in code that you depend on? what if you are planning to live most of the summer in a remote village where the power is unreliable and the net is 56K dialup? etc. |
| 16:37.46 | codess | :) |
| 16:38.36 | sumanah | jashd: You don't have to list a lot of what-ifs but if you can demonstrate awareness of things that sometimes cause these kinds of tasks to fail (think about colleagues of yours in the past and what obstacles they have gotten hung up on), and you can talk a little about how you will prevent or mitigate these things, that would be great |
| 16:39.09 | sumanah | for instance: please commit your code to a repo somewhere outside your own computer several times a day, so that if your computer falls down or gets stolen, you don't lose all your work to that point ;-) |
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| 16:39.45 | jashd | yeah, I already do that constantly :) |
| 16:39.52 | sumanah | Good! |
| 16:39.53 | sumanah | jashd: I think that's about it from me! |
| 16:41.09 | jashd | ok, thank you very much for your feedback. I already have many issues to take care of. I think my proposal will look stunning after incorporating your suggestions. |
| 16:41.58 | jashd | *I mean that you gave me many issues to take care of and improve my work |
| 16:42.00 | jashd | thanks |
| 16:43.11 | sumanah | Glad to help jashd! |
| 16:43.32 | sumanah | And do pass around those Wikimedia & Software Carpentry links to your colleagues! |
| 16:43.47 | jashd | sure :) |
| 16:44.12 | jashd | jsut one more thing, is there a specific number of slots for eash org? |
| 16:44.25 | sumanah | !slots |
| 16:44.26 | gsocbot | sumanah: "slots" is (#1) Slot allocation is done manually by Chris DiBona and Carol Smith, be a good org, play nice on the mentor list and #gsoc, ask for a non-crazy-high number of slots, and you'll probably get what you ask. Note that non-crazy-high for new orgs is around 1 or 2., or (#2) http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/NotesonStudentAllocations |
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| 16:44.48 | sumanah | jashd: each organization does get allotted a specific number of slots, but no one knows what that # will be yet. |
| 16:44.58 | sharvey | sumanah: hard at work I see |
| 16:45.11 | sumanah | jashd: And there is a tiny amount of room for negotiation and so on. |
| 16:45.41 | sumanah | Hi sharvey! Well, I try to take weekends off, but yesterday and today I decided to spend a lot of time on IRC helping people with GSoC and OPW proposals |
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| 16:45.57 | sharvey | haha very nice |
| 16:46.24 | roonyH | Hi, when listing things I do on each week, |
| 16:46.26 | roonyH | what format would be better, |
| 16:46.27 | roonyH | 'Writing tests' or 'Write tests' or 'I'll write tests' |
| 16:46.50 | jashd | could you tell me what's a non-crazy-high number for a org like apache? |
| 16:46.52 | sumanah | roonyH: I personally think all of those are fine as long as you are consistent |
| 16:47.15 | sumanah | jashd: You could look at what they got last year, but that also changes over time because sometimes other projects participate under Apache's umbrella |
| 16:47.34 | roonyH | right thanks sumanah |
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| 16:47.38 | roonyH | :) |
| 16:47.42 | sumanah | jashd: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/projects/list/google/gsoc2012 |
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| 16:48.00 | Aayush251 | sumanah submitted to melange |
| 16:48.04 | sumanah | roonyH: I'm happy to look at a draft proposal and give you feedback, including on your English prose |
| 16:48.07 | sumanah | Aayush251: I'm glad! |
| 16:48.12 | Aayush251 | and I need to verify something from yurik |
| 16:48.20 | Aayush251 | then I'll submit the schedule as well |
| 16:48.41 | sumanah | Glad to hear it! |
| 16:49.05 | jashd | 38 slots I think |
| 16:49.33 | roonyH | sumanah i most certainly will send you the link. I'm still working on my proposal. I changed a lot in it looking at things you said to others. |
| 16:49.44 | CodeTab | codess: The FAQ page says " If you have a great internship starting soon or you're planning a month long backpacking trip, you likely won't be a good candidate for the program." http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#11._How_much_time_is_required_to |
| 16:49.59 | sumanah | roonyH: I'm glad I'm doing this in public so people like you can learn from the discussion here! :D |
| 16:50.17 | roonyH | sumanah you will be available for couple of more hours won't you? |
| 16:50.34 | sumanah | roonyH: yeah, ~2 more hours, although I should take a break from the screen sometime soon |
| 16:51.19 | sharvey | breaks are good |
| 16:51.21 | CodeTab | You should talk with the organization you're applying to and let them know beforehand. |
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| 16:54.11 | roonyH | I have discussed with my mentor about the project. I have asked for feedback, But I'm sure they are the most busy organization on the list at this moment. |
| 16:55.01 | roonyH | Melange :) |
| 16:55.03 | sumanah | ha! |
| 16:55.09 | sumanah | True! |
| 16:55.13 | roonyH | :) |
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| 17:02.17 | jashd | if I want to apply for 2 different projects inside the same org, should I do 2 separate proposals or just 1 indicating the 2 projects and my priorities ? |
| 17:03.03 | dhaun | jashd: one proposal per project |
| 17:03.21 | jashd | ok, ty |
| 17:03.33 | dhaun | they will have to reject one in any case - how are they supposed to do that if they're both in the same proposal? |
| 17:04.17 | sumanah | :-) |
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| 17:06.49 | CodeTab | Looks like Google has already indexed some public GSOC 2013 proposals. |
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| 17:23.37 | sumanah | hi skoushik - give me a few minutes to rest my eyes and I'll be right back! |
| 17:24.06 | skoushik | sumanah sure! |
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| 17:27.55 | sumanah | ok! I am back. |
| 17:29.31 | skoushik | sumanah: it's still incomplete.. is it okay? |
| 17:30.41 | sumanah | skoushik: if you feel like showing it to me, I can look at it |
| 17:30.53 | sumanah | you can tell me specific kinds of feedback you DON'T want right now and I will honor that |
| 17:30.53 | skoushik | sumanah: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59055250/Proj_Proposal_PSU.doc |
| 17:31.11 | sumanah | skoushik: no, I won't look at a .doc file, sorry :) can you convert to a free format such as rtf? |
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| 17:31.25 | skoushik | sure.. |
| 17:32.32 | skoushik | sumanah: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59055250/Proj_Proposal_PSU.rtf |
| 17:35.24 | sumanah | opening |
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| 17:36.09 | sumanah | ok, skoushik if you have a list of TODOs regarding what you aim to fix about this proposal then you can tell me and then I won't duplicate effort by telling you those same things :) |
| 17:36.33 | skoushik | the schedule is not yet put up ofcourse.. |
| 17:37.05 | sumanah | ok. What else? |
| 17:37.19 | skoushik | and i still need some advice on the deliverables.. i couldn't get reply from the mentors.. so still waiting for it |
| 17:37.45 | skoushik | but i don't mind any advice on that from you. |
| 17:38.20 | sumanah | ok. |
| 17:38.30 | sumanah | So I'm going to give you a bunch of suggestions in no particular order. |
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| 17:38.50 | sumanah | skoushik: Do you have the hardware necessary to accomplish this project? If not, do you have plans to get it? |
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| 17:39.56 | skoushik | Unfortunately no. I spoke to one of the technical leads, and he suggested me to figure out a way to run the code without the use of a microcontroller |
| 17:40.04 | sumanah | skoushik: "As IÂ’ve checked the previous yearÂ’s code on this project" - link? |
| 17:40.27 | sumanah | skoushik: honestly I think you will not be able to succeed in this project unless you can figure out a way to get the hardware to really test it yourself |
| 17:40.41 | sumanah | How much would the hardware cost? |
| 17:40.50 | skoushik | $600 .. |
| 17:40.56 | skoushik | it's too expensive for me.. |
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| 17:41.29 | sumanah | skoushik: You will receive USD$5000 over the course of GSoC if you succeed |
| 17:41.42 | sumanah | skoushik: is there a university or college laboratory near you that you could use? |
| 17:41.54 | sumanah | skoushik: could you ask the mentoring organization to buy the hardware for you? |
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| 17:42.40 | skoushik | Well, I guess I could ask them.. maybe repay them I get the money |
| 17:42.45 | skoushik | *after |
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| 17:44.12 | sumanah | skoushik: If you are going to succeed, you need to be willing to ask for the things you need |
| 17:44.54 | sumanah | skoushik: on June 17th https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#2._What_is_the_program_timeline accepted students get the first payment |
| 17:45.17 | sumanah | skoushik: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#1._How_do_payments_work "Accepted students in good standing with their mentoring organization will receive a 500 USD stipend shortly after coding begins on June 17, 2013." |
| 17:46.18 | skoushik | sumanah: Oh.. Ok. I'll try to contact them |
| 17:46.50 | skoushik | sumanah: But I rarely get replies .. |
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| 17:47.20 | sumanah | skoushik: What have you tried? have you tried posting in their mailing list AND their IRC channel? |
| 17:47.32 | sumanah | skoushik: can you give me a link to the mailing list posts you've sent? |
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| 17:48.19 | skoushik | sumanah: They've listed their e-mail address at their homepage.. but the e-mails keep bouncing back.. tried it 3 times, but failed |
| 17:48.36 | sumanah | skoushik: well, no wonder you rarely get replies! |
| 17:48.49 | skoushik | sumanah: they have an IRC channel |
| 17:48.54 | sumanah | skoushik: give me a link to their project page. |
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| 17:49.14 | sumanah | on Melange, or their GSoC page on their website, or something. |
| 17:49.28 | luiscubal | Hello, I'm new here so I don't know how this is supposed to work, but I have a few questions about GSoc. |
| 17:49.39 | sumanah | Go ahead luiscubal |
| 17:49.44 | skoushik | http://summer.cs.pdx.edu/ideas |
| 17:49.46 | sumanah | you can ask questions here and people will try to answer them |
| 17:49.46 | luiscubal | First of all, are we supposed to work in the mid-term evaluations period? |
| 17:50.03 | sumanah | luiscubal: yes, the mid-term evaluations period is not necessarily a holiday. |
| 17:50.10 | luiscubal | Okay. |
| 17:50.25 | sumanah | skoushik: so you were emailing psu-summer-2013 at svcs.cs.pdx.edu, correct? |
| 17:50.47 | skoushik | sumanah: Yes.. I even mailed the mentors directly.. didn't get their replies |
| 17:51.19 | luiscubal | Second: In my proposal(s), should I say "I will" or "I would" when it comes to goals and deliverables? |
| 17:51.50 | gevaerts | skoushik: the melange page has a different address, maybe try that one |
| 17:52.00 | luiscubal | As in "I will do this task" vs "I would do this task" |
| 17:52.07 | gevaerts | skoushik: psu-soc-2013@ |
| 17:52.36 | sumanah | luiscubal: Say "I will". |
| 17:52.42 | luiscubal | Okay. Thank you. |
| 17:52.46 | sumanah | luiscubal: You're welcome! |
| 17:52.46 | luiscubal | That's all for now. |
| 17:52.50 | sumanah | Good luck! |
| 17:53.09 | skoushik | gevaerts: ah. i'll try that one. thanks |
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| 17:53.24 | gevaerts | skoushik: if you get through, tell them about the problem :) |
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| 17:53.41 | sumanah | gevaerts: do you have the ability to fix http://summer.cs.pdx.edu/ideas ? or do you just happen to know the address via some other means? |
| 17:53.48 | abhinav_ramana | Hi. I am interested in applying for Google Summer of Code 2013 under the mentorship of funf. Browsing through the re-organized project ideas list, with my skillset I would like to contribute to Android Application. But I have not been yet contacted by my mentor |
| 17:54.03 | gevaerts | sumanah: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/google/gsoc2013/portland_state has the other one. That's all I know |
| 17:54.09 | sumanah | abhinav_ramana: Have you tried contacting the mentor yourself? |
| 17:54.15 | abhinav_ramana | yes |
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| 17:54.26 | sumanah | abhinav_ramana: How long ago? |
| 17:54.39 | abhinav_ramana | I sent 2 emails |
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| 17:54.55 | abhinav_ramana | once 1 week back |
| 17:55.03 | abhinav_ramana | another 3 days ago |
| 17:55.59 | sumanah | abhinav_ramana: ok. At this point you should contact the organization's administrator and ask for them to ping the mentor. You should also try the organization's public mailing list and public IRC channel |
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| 17:56.46 | abhinav_ramana | funf doesn't have IRC channel |
| 17:57.09 | sumanah | skoushik: so here is a tip: the next time that you are trying to send an email, and it bounces, DO NOT WAIT before trying to chase down the problem and report it and get your message across in some other way |
| 17:57.26 | sumanah | abhinav_ramana: have you posted to their public mailing list or discussion forum? |
| 17:57.36 | darnir1 | sumanah: Done! I've made a bunch of changes. I think I just re-wrote the complete proposal! |
| 17:57.43 | skoushik | sumanah: yes. learned my lesson. thanks :) |
| 17:57.47 | sumanah | skoushik: again: if you want to succeed, you need to solve the problems that show up |
| 17:57.52 | gevaerts | Hmmm, http://summer.cs.pdx.edu/ideas and http://summer.cs.pdx.edu/about have different addresses. /about has the same one as melange |
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| 17:58.51 | sumanah | skoushik: how did you speak to one of the technical leads? |
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| 17:59.36 | skoushik | sumanah: I got into the quad copter project's IRC channel.. there weren't any mentors there, but I got to speak with one of the technical lead |
| 17:59.48 | sumanah | skoushik: so at this point you should be prepared for the possibility that this project is not going to work out |
| 18:00.15 | sumanah | http://summer.cs.pdx.edu/ideas implies that you are responsible for getting your own tools and hardware |
| 18:00.26 | darnir1 | sumanah: gevaerts: Another round of nitpicking and corrections! Here's the link for when you can: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TknRRDT_6fNu4c6x0B0b8ITZ39_e4vqwUN19DLH9Y0Q/edit?usp=sharing |
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| 18:00.50 | sumanah | skoushik: Does Atria Institute of Technology have tools you could use? |
| 18:02.08 | skoushik | sumanah: I don't think so. but even if i start building it now from scratch, i think it would take a long time to get to the project's current status |
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| 18:02.54 | sumanah | skoushik: can you say the name of the person who would be mentoring this project? |
| 18:03.08 | skoushik | sumanah: in the webpage, it's given that the mentors have agreed to loan the hardware for specific projects.. |
| 18:03.13 | skoushik | sumanah: Jenner hanni |
| 18:03.23 | sumanah | OK. skoushik have you tried to contact Jenner Hanni? |
| 18:03.36 | skoushik | sumanah: yes i have.. |
| 18:04.03 | sumanah | How? |
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| 18:04.30 | skoushik | sumanah: E-mail.. I got it through his github page.. I didn't get any reply from him though |
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| 18:07.07 | sumanah | skoushik: a pull request might also get his/her attention |
| 18:07.36 | sumanah | (a legitimate pull request) |
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| 18:08.47 | sumanah | ok, skoushik I think I have a bunch more criticism for your proposal -- of course the huge big problem is that you need to get in real communication with the mentor and their team, and develop a real schedule |
| 18:08.55 | sumanah | and explain how you are going to make this work |
| 18:09.01 | sumanah | on the hardware level |
| 18:09.03 | sumanah | other than that: |
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| 18:09.31 | sumanah | when linking to other people's work, attribute it to their names and explain why you're linking to it -- because it has principles you will follow? because you helped write it? |
| 18:09.45 | sumanah | Link to your past code that you have written |
| 18:10.16 | sumanah | link to bug reports you have filed, mailing list posts you have written, courses you have taught and led, and relevant blog posts you have written |
| 18:10.50 | sumanah | skoushik: talk about why you want to do this in particular |
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| 18:12.02 | sumanah | skoushik: talk about what your working hours and timezone would be, how you would communicate with them and keep everyone apprised of your progress, and what you will do to prevent or deal with problems |
| 18:12.06 | skoushik | sumanah: I don't have my code up online. most of it is embedded c. I think i'll put it up anyway |
| 18:12.12 | sumanah | makes sense. |
| 18:12.55 | sumanah | skoushik: I'm going to move on now because there's not much more I can say because you're missing big chunks. If I were you, if I did not get a reply within a day or so, I would switch to thinking about a different mentoring organization |
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| 18:13.23 | gevaerts | darnir1: can I give two separate comments about a single word? :) |
| 18:13.53 | skoushik | sumanah: I'm already trying for one more organisation too. I'll wait till tomorrow before I leave this one out |
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| 18:14.02 | sumanah | OK skoushik |
| 18:14.03 | gevaerts | darnir1: I'm not convinced about "most optimum solution". I'd write "optimal". Ask a native speaker though |
| 18:14.07 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Sure |
| 18:14.28 | gevaerts | darnir1: however, "optimal" means "best possible", so "most optimal" doesn't really add much |
| 18:14.59 | sumanah | darnir1: "A weekly summary of work done / code written is proposed" what medium? :) |
| 18:15.01 | skoushik | sumanah: would I still have a chance if I submit it, even though I didn't speak to the mentors? |
| 18:15.27 | sumanah | skoushik: Almost zero chance, in my opinion. However I do not work for Google or PSU. I'm just giving my opinion as a former org admin and mentor. |
| 18:15.28 | darnir1 | sumanah: I think you're reading the old version. I changed that line. |
| 18:15.45 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Edited. Sounds reasonable to me. |
| 18:15.47 | sumanah | darnir1: weird. Gimme the link? |
| 18:15.48 | skoushik | sumanah: Ah.. Alright. Thanks |
| 18:15.53 | sumanah | thought she clicked on the new one |
| 18:15.59 | sumanah | skoushik: think about it from their point of view |
| 18:16.04 | darnir1 | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TknRRDT_6fNu4c6x0B0b8ITZ39_e4vqwUN19DLH9Y0Q/edit?usp=sharing |
| 18:16.21 | sumanah | skoushik: why would they accept a student they had not communicated with? |
| 18:16.36 | sumanah | darnir1: it's still in there! |
| 18:16.40 | darnir1 | sumanah: My bad! |
| 18:16.48 | darnir1 | I made a mistake and edited the wrong document! |
| 18:17.06 | darnir1 | Wait, I'll merge changes. |
| 18:17.06 | skoushik | sumanah: Right. Got it. |
| 18:18.02 | sumanah | hey vedant ping |
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| 18:20.04 | darnir1 | sumanah: Corrected. I'm so sorry for the goof up. |
| 18:20.08 | sumanah | It happens! |
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| 18:21.33 | sumanah | darnir1: "Mailing List discussions" - watch those capitalizations |
| 18:21.53 | sumanah | darnir1: is "iri support" support for something named iri? |
| 18:22.00 | sumanah | I hadn't heard of iri before, that's why I ask |
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| 18:23.00 | sumanah | darnir1: "At this point of time a basic FTP Server will also be taking shape." reword -- "By this point, we should also have a basic FTP server." or something like htat |
| 18:23.01 | sumanah | that* |
| 18:23.17 | sumanah | "I will study the various authentication methods thats Wget supports" can you spot the extra s ? :) |
| 18:23.37 | darnir1 | sumanah: Damn those habits. I'll edit the capitalization. |
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| 18:23.56 | sumanah | btw darnir1 - do your home internet + hostel internet both have good speed, unblocked IRC & ssh ports, etc? |
| 18:24.02 | darnir1 | sumanah: Yes, it is for a command that goes by --iri |
| 18:24.16 | sumanah | darnir1: I have learned something! ok. |
| 18:24.35 | sumanah | "Support for cookie based authentication should have been implemented earlier itself." So this is one place where Indian English is not the same as US English -- "itself" and "only" |
| 18:24.40 | darnir1 | sumanah: yes. I'm glad my uni provides unblocked IRC and SSH. |
| 18:24.47 | sumanah | darnir1: you are lucky! many do not :/ |
| 18:25.13 | sumanah | darnir1: I would reword as "At this point I will have already implemented support for cookie-based authentication." |
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| 18:25.43 | darnir1 | I'll reword. And edit out the typos. Need to put it through one more round of self proof-reading. |
| 18:25.47 | sumanah | :-) |
| 18:26.08 | sumanah | also you ought to be consistent in your newlines in between schedule sections |
| 18:26.37 | darnir1 | I thought I made a mistake there at one of the page breaks. Let me check. |
| 18:27.06 | sumanah | "I will be writing the documentation along with every local commit." what does "documentation" mean here? class diagrams? walkthrough? GNU info page? |
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| 18:27.36 | darnir1 | info page. |
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| 18:28.01 | sumanah | You mean "GNU info" (the alternative to man pages), right? |
| 18:28.27 | sumanah | Specifying that would be good. |
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| 18:28.37 | sumanah | darnir1: I already suggested that you read this aloud, right? reading the whole thing aloud will help |
| 18:28.59 | darnir1 | sumanah: Yes. Because they use a perl script to convert the GNU Info pages to man pages. |
| 18:29.08 | sumanah | Got it. |
| 18:29.24 | sumanah | darnir1: where does Wget keep its main repo? Savannah? (the GNU dev suite) |
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| 18:29.30 | darnir1 | sumanah: I did a quick read aloud. Maybe I missed something? |
| 18:29.39 | darnir1 | yes. Savannah. |
| 18:30.22 | sumanah | darnir1: ok. Why are you planning on using GitHub rather than Savannah? |
| 18:30.53 | sumanah | darnir1: more capitalisations: Network Downloader, Project, Tests..... |
| 18:31.19 | darnir1 | sumanah: Compulsive habits will take time to change. I'm working on it. |
| 18:31.25 | sumanah | Understood :) |
| 18:31.41 | sumanah | I think overall your proposal is much improved. |
| 18:31.54 | darnir1 | sumanah: Because savannah hosts only GNU projects. Not user repositories. |
| 18:32.09 | sumanah | darnir1: Ah! ok. Thanks, I did not know that |
| 18:32.17 | darnir1 | And I state GitHub since last year's project was also hosted there. |
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| 18:32.33 | sumanah | I guess I would think that you should simply have a branch within the Savannah project..... |
| 18:32.42 | sumanah | GitHub works too. |
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| 18:33.01 | sumanah | darnir1: can you link to Kill Code Phobia or Code Innovation? |
| 18:33.05 | sumanah | in the proposal? |
| 18:33.20 | sumanah | I am going to go and rest my eyes pretty soon. |
| 18:33.33 | darnir1 | sumanah: There's a couple of issues there since, we don't actually get write access to the savannah repositories. |
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| 18:33.44 | sumanah | darnir1: I think reading this aloud "More unit tests to for the implementation of --no-clobber will also be written." would be a good idea and might help you see a problem |
| 18:33.54 | darnir1 | Only a total of 4 members have write access there. |
| 18:33.57 | sumanah | darnir1: wow! that is weird to me, but I guess I just come from a different tradition |
| 18:35.13 | darnir1 | sumanah: The position is "Research Lead, Code Innovation", read as, Research Lead *for* code innovation. We do not have an online presence since most of our work is on the background. |
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| 18:35.25 | sumanah | oh I understand better now |
| 18:35.51 | darnir1 | Ouch! Stupid errors! I should've proof read first. |
| 18:36.15 | sumanah | maybe your subconscious just likes multiples and exponents of 2 |
| 18:36.24 | sumanah | "to for" could be read as "2 4" |
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| 18:36.52 | sumanah | ok, I am making myself giggle at that, I'm definitely going to head off now |
| 18:36.58 | sumanah | and take a nap or something |
| 18:37.08 | sumanah | good luck darnir1 and good luck to all the applicants |
| 18:37.22 | darnir1 | You should. You've been actively critiquing applications for a while now. |
| 18:37.27 | darnir1 | Thanks! |
| 18:37.51 | darnir1 | This is the first time I haven't seen a trace of carols in such a long while on this channel. |
| 18:38.02 | sumanah | Even on a weekend? |
| 18:38.31 | darnir1 | That makes me think. Maybe I just noticed it today. |
| 18:38.39 | sumanah | Bye gevaerts :) |
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| 18:41.03 | gevaerts | darnir1: carols tends to be here during California business hours |
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| 18:58.36 | gevaerts | darnir1: "Since, I am not very aware of the issues plaguing these features, I will rely on mailing list discussions to identify what extra tests to write" -> that first comma shouldn't be there |
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| 19:01.14 | gevaerts | darnir1: also, I'm not sure what you mean by "cookie based authentication". Is there such a thing? |
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| 19:02.15 | gevaerts | I mean, there are cookies, and there are forms, and websites set cookies, and they may redirect to a login page if they don't see a cookie, but as far as I can see none of that requires a specific functionality for authentication |
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| 19:03.44 | darnir1 | gevaerts: A mistake on my end. I'll rectify it. |
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| 19:04.29 | darnir1 | gevaerts: One can force wget to send a specific cookie to the server to authenticate itself. |
| 19:04.51 | darnir1 | This is also mentioned in the man page. |
| 19:06.28 | gevaerts | The closest I can find is --keep-session-cookies. Is that what you mean? |
| 19:06.45 | gevaerts | Anyway, if it means something in the whet universe, it's fine :) |
| 19:07.07 | darnir1 | No, I meant the --load-cookie option. |
| 19:07.34 | gevaerts | That's just plain cookies support, isn't it? |
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| 19:08.47 | gevaerts | doesn't see what's authentication-specific about any of it |
| 19:09.22 | darnir1 | gevaerts: Hmm. Maybe I just made a larger deal about it than it actually is. |
| 19:09.35 | gevaerts | Well, cookies aren't necessarily easy :) |
| 19:09.44 | darnir1 | Oh wait! Now i remember why! |
| 19:10.35 | darnir1 | I will be writing the test environment. Which means I need to add support for different mechanisms to the server. |
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| 19:10.46 | gevaerts | Right |
| 19:10.49 | darnir1 | Normal cookie authentication, session-cookies, etc. |
| 19:11.05 | gevaerts | So you'll be simulating various sorts of common mechanisms |
| 19:11.12 | gevaerts | That makes more sense :) |
| 19:11.24 | darnir1 | On wget's end it's almost nothing, but on the server end, this has to be implemented and that will take time. |
| 19:11.40 | gevaerts | nods |
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| 19:18.05 | darnir1 | Thanks a bunch gevaerts! Your inputs truly have helped quite a bit. |
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| 19:24.07 | banas | Okay, with help from sumanah, I have made quite a few changes. Anything else I may need to work on? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GSOC_2013/Student_Application_Sarupbanskota/Design_Hub(461) |
| 19:26.44 | vedant | hello sumanah |
| 19:27.33 | darnir1 | vedant: She left. |
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| 19:31.19 | vedant | oh sad |
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| 19:38.10 | ankitkv | a student can have more than one proposals.. how does selection work in this case? does gsoc choose which proposal the student gets to follow or the student, in case of multiple acceptances? |
| 19:38.57 | thiago | you should be prepared to do any of the projects you submit |
| 19:39.07 | thiago | you may not be asked which one you want |
| 19:39.13 | dhaun | ankitkv: I wouldn't worry about multiple acceptance too much - it's rare |
| 19:39.38 | thiago | if multiple orgs do accept you, usually they ask you which one you'd rather do |
| 19:40.02 | ankitkv | alright, thanks :) |
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| 19:43.15 | abhinav_ramana | Hi.. I am interested in applying for Google Summer of Code 2013 under the mentorship of Ankur India. I tried their chat but no-one replied |
| 19:43.27 | thiago | abhinav_ramana: try their mailing lists |
| 19:43.37 | abhinav_ramana | i already posted there |
| 19:43.50 | abhinav_ramana | i mailed at project-ideas@lists.ankur.org.in |
| 19:44.31 | abhinav_ramana | noone is replying in #ankur.org.in |
| 19:44.59 | neverpanic | how long did you wait? |
| 19:45.25 | abhinav_ramana | in the chat, i waited 20 mins |
| 19:46.00 | neverpanic | I'd suggest waiting longer. People might be at work or asleep and not answer within 20 minutes. |
| 19:46.20 | abhinav_ramana | ohk... thanx |
| 19:47.08 | j4nu5 | yeah ... its past midnight here in India (im guessing most mentors of Ankur India are from India) ... ppl must be asleep |
| 19:49.06 | thiago | so yeah, wait 6 or 7 hours |
| 19:49.15 | thiago | :-) |
| 19:50.17 | roonyH | Hi, sad to see sumanah has left |
| 19:50.28 | roonyH | this is my proposal http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2013/roonyh/1 |
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| 19:52.01 | roonyH | gavaerts, thiago I'd love some feedback from mentors |
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| 19:58.09 | tomprince | abhinav_ramana: Depending on the channel, it can take hours to days for a response. (Not everybody in a channel is always looking at a computer) |
| 20:00.52 | abhinav_ramana | ya... |
| 20:00.56 | abhinav_ramana | thnx anywayz |
| 20:00.59 | abhinav_ramana | i m new here |
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| 20:13.47 | Aayush|Away | abhinav_ramana : Sunday no one replies :) |
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| 20:21.16 | dogui | Hi, where are the application's short descriptions published? |
| 20:21.28 | dogui | I read they were public while submitting mine |
| 20:25.42 | dfighter | dogui it will be public on the accepted projects list, if accepted |
| 20:25.51 | dfighter | dogui other than that I don't think it's public |
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| 20:26.42 | hjpotter92 | you can set your own application to be public |
| 20:26.44 | dogui | ohh |
| 20:27.00 | dogui | after the application deadline, then, right? |
| 20:27.09 | dfighter | hjpotter92 but that's not related to this |
| 20:27.12 | dfighter | dogui yes |
| 20:27.15 | dogui | hjpotter92: Sure, but that's not what I meant. |
| 20:27.51 | dogui | dfighter: Ok, cool. I wanted to do some reconnaissance but I guess I can't hahaha. |
| 20:28.02 | hjpotter92 | hmm, I misinterpreted your question :) |
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| 20:28.54 | dfighter | dogui you should worry about your own proposal, not others' ;) |
| 20:29.05 | dfighter | trust me if you submit the best proposal, you will be accepted :P |
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| 20:29.24 | dogui | I know, it's just that curiosity got to me : ) |
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| 20:29.57 | HJ | is there a way to get half of the $5.000 in advance? i.e. completing half of the project by the beginning date? i'll use it for the project itself as I need to buy some hardware/software. |
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| 20:30.22 | dfighter | dogui you can also ask in your organization's IRC channel or mailing list or just observe as they discuss it, if you are curious about others' stuff |
| 20:30.46 | darnir1 | HJ: You get $500 on selection and $2250 on passing mid-term evaluations |
| 20:30.53 | dfighter | HJ doubtful |
| 20:30.58 | dfighter | at best |
| 20:31.05 | dfighter | but more like outright impossible :P |
| 20:31.06 | dogui | dfighter: Nah, that's fine. Thanks man |
| 20:31.28 | TIJ | thats asking for too much i'll say..;) |
| 20:32.24 | dfighter | HJ probably the money is sent automatically to the citi card, so what you ask would be extra effort |
| 20:32.57 | HJ | ok thanks for your input darnir1 and dfighter |
| 20:33.14 | lynnug | Hi does every organization have an IRC channel? |
| 20:33.40 | dfighter | lynnug not neccessarily, why don't you ask the org you are interested in if they have one? |
| 20:33.45 | dfighter | or check their website for that matter |
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| 20:36.56 | lynnug | I checked out the website however there's no mention of an IRC channel , i emailed the mention mentor however response might be slow via email |
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| 20:39.29 | banas | They gave selected participants a citibank card? |
| 20:39.32 | banas | *give |
| 20:41.18 | dfighter | banas that's how you get the stipend, yes. Or at least that's how it worked last year. |
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| 20:41.50 | banas | Nice :) It can be refilled too, right? I mean, that becomes like a new bank account students now have? |
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| 20:42.07 | dfighter | banas no |
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| 20:42.20 | banas | then? |
| 20:42.31 | dfighter | banas it's a prepaid debit card, only Google can put money on it, afaik |
| 20:42.53 | dfighter | banas it doesn't have a bank account associated to it |
| 20:43.06 | banas | Oh, I see. Cool. :) |
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| 20:43.24 | banas | Would have been nicer if it were a bank account that could be reused :D |
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| 20:44.11 | neverpanic | why? |
| 20:44.16 | dfighter | banas if you need a bank account then open one, no one stops you from doing it ;) |
| 20:44.40 | roonyH | its one thing you can do without google :) |
| 20:44.49 | banas | Haha, sure. |
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| 20:51.16 | dogui | since we're touching the subject, can I use that card to pay online? Or is it just for atm extractions? |
| 20:51.39 | dfighter | dogui it's a fully functioning debit card |
| 20:51.45 | dfighter | you can pay everywhere with it |
| 20:52.04 | dfighter | where Visa is accepted that is :P |
| 20:52.13 | dogui | cool, thanks |
| 20:53.16 | dfighter | this is how it looked like last year http://dfighter1985.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/sdc10077.jpg |
| 20:54.16 | neverpanic | seems to be the same layout as the year before: http://www.neverpanic.de/images/uploads/gsoc-welcome-box-card.jpg |
| 20:54.53 | dfighter | yea |
| 20:55.14 | dfighter | I particularly liked that it's transparent. |
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| 21:02.09 | DroidBurgundy | o/ |
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| 21:30.14 | esac | hello |
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| 21:33.55 | esac | is there somewhere i can find more information about the organization "Google Open Source Programs Office" ? |
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| 21:44.52 | ojwb | esac: in the faq - http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page#16._What_if_there_is_no_organization |
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| 21:50.33 | diadara | Is there any limit on number of slots for a new org ? |
| 21:50.54 | kblin | it was 2 slots last year |
| 21:52.17 | diadara | are you sure kblin ,I for sure have seen orgs who got 3 slots |
| 21:54.23 | tomprince | *new* orgs? |
| 21:55.14 | kblin | I'm pretty sure. possibly one or the other got more if all of their mentors had actually done gsoc before |
| 21:56.48 | kblin | the only thing I know for sure is that every org gets at least two slots if they ask for it |
| 21:57.06 | tomprince | Or, if they where an umbrella, perhpas. |
| 21:59.02 | diadara | the one I applied for ,has something like 10 members , and about the same number of open ideas and some very good proposals |
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| 21:59.39 | diadara | so the chances of more than 3 getting selected is very sllim I guess |
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| 22:00.31 | neverpanic | !odds | diadara |
| 22:00.33 | gsocbot | diadara: "odds" is Odds, chances or probability really do not come into play for GSoC. Rambling off numbers or asking What are the odds of getting accepted... is really quite useless as one's acceptance is not dictated by luck or numbers, but by the quality of your proposal and your skills instead. |
| 22:00.35 | diadara | I meant mentors not members |
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| 22:17.17 | derdon | is it accepted to use the address of a package station in the "street address" fields in the form "register as a student"? |
| 22:18.09 | tomprince | That'd be a question for carols, probably. |
| 22:18.10 | derdon | I'm not very often at home, so I like using a package station. I suppose the address is required to send the t-shirt and certificate, so it shouldn't be a problem, should it? |
| 22:18.24 | derdon | why is carols offline? :( |
| 22:18.44 | tomprince | It's the weekend. |
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| 22:19.42 | derdon | here the weekend stopped about twenty minutes ago |
| 22:19.43 | demosdemon | email the general mailing list, carols will see if someone else doesn't respond first |
| 22:19.55 | derdon | ok, will do that |
| 22:20.41 | demosdemon | there's still 9 hours left of sunday for here, plus another 8 before the work day begins |
| 22:20.49 | demosdemon | *her |
| 22:21.32 | derdon | I have to wake up in less than 6 hours :( |
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| 22:27.53 | derdon | demosdemon: tomprince: case closed; there is a special section "Shipping Info (if different from above)" in the form |
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| 22:34.41 | esac | thank you ojwb |
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| 23:11.17 | piyushbansal | Hi, I wanted to ask if I can link the official proposal to point to a google doc, and just fill the other details in melange website ( official proposal) |
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