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| 03:00.00 | koda | !logs |
| 03:00.00 | gsocbot | koda: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
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| 05:03.10 | kkthecoder | from where i can get the list of the projects submitted last year by the selected students in GSOC 2012 |
| 05:03.10 | kkthecoder | ? |
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| 05:18.15 | ojwb | kkthecoder: you can see the lists for each org in melange |
| 05:18.22 | ojwb | though it doesn't show projects once they've failed |
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| 05:54.42 | kkthecoder | ojwb: this is the list of selected organizations this year.. |
| 05:55.02 | ojwb | there's a drop down to select the year |
| 05:55.15 | kkthecoder | okk.. let me check.. |
| 05:56.35 | kkthecoder | ojwb:so i can't get the project submitted by the students last year..? |
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| 05:56.47 | kkthecoder | actually earlier i have seen it.. |
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| 05:56.53 | ojwb | you can |
| 05:57.02 | kkthecoder | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:57.04 | ojwb | select 2012 as the year |
| 05:57.08 | kkthecoder | where i had saw.. |
| 05:57.36 | kkthecoder | it is showing the list of org. of last year.. |
| 05:58.00 | kkthecoder | ojwb: |
| 05:58.03 | kkthecoder | okk got it.. |
| 05:58.06 | kkthecoder | thanks.. |
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| 06:53.00 | swook | I have read some odd (to me) comments about writing to the mailing list. It included how applicants being too formal are out, and applicants addressing the list with "Dear Sirs" is inappropriate and such. It is expected that everyone judges each other but the mentioned sentiment struck me as being not too 'open'. Afterall, formality is more often than not expected in first encounters... |
| 06:53.10 | swook | out as in out of the question |
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| 06:54.02 | swook | I would think the interest and persistence a candidate can show would be more important than initial wordings of an email... isn't it? |
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| 06:58.06 | |Kev| | swook: Depends entirely on the person reading the mail. |
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| 06:58.42 | |Kev| | Just as every person reading a CV/Resume will have (sometimes vastly) different opinions on what's good and bad form, so you can expect projects to have vastly different opinions. |
| 06:59.04 | waldi | swook: "dear sirs" is a pretty formal greeting. it is just out of line in any context I know regarding communication within free software projects |
| 06:59.13 | swook | I see |
| 06:59.25 | |Kev| | But almost everyone (maybe everyone?) will rate the quality of communication very highly on their list of requirements. |
| 06:59.34 | swook | true, I agree on that |
| 07:00.01 | swook | but it can be difficult to figure out the best way of speaking to a public audience |
| 07:00.12 | |Kev| | Well, that's fairly easy, actually. |
| 07:00.19 | |Kev| | Just read the list archives before posting. |
| 07:00.28 | |Kev| | Especially posts by project members. |
| 07:00.32 | swook | well that's true |
| 07:01.01 | swook | but it just felt slightly unwelcoming seeing that comment |
| 07:01.06 | tierra | swook: I might expect some responses like that from community members, and would hope that mentors are there to step in and correct any inappropriate behavior (such as discouraging prospective students from even applying)... and if it's a mentor telling students to not even bother, that would be highly disappointing, and the org admin should probably step in and immediately correct that mentor |
| 07:01.26 | tierra | but that's all assuming that whatever replies you're reffering to are actually discouraging students from applying |
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| 07:01.36 | tierra | (and thus participating in the project) |
| 07:01.38 | swook | it was just a G+ post by a developer I 'follow' |
| 07:01.49 | swook | I was just wondering about the topic |
| 07:01.52 | tierra | if it's not discouraging students, it's probably alright |
| 07:01.52 | swook | and what people in general think |
| 07:02.28 | |Kev| | tierra: Orgs can judge students however they want, though, and it'd be disingenuous to pretend that first impressions aren't going to count significantly. |
| 07:02.58 | aadi025 | that's why sometime good proposal rejected |
| 07:03.22 | tierra | right, but it really is rather unfair to start harshly judging students before they've even sent in their application |
| 07:03.31 | swook | I can see why excessive formality could be unappealing |
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| 07:03.43 | swook | but it also feels slightly odd to make that a large part of a decision |
| 07:03.53 | tierra | yeah, that too |
| 07:03.54 | |Kev| | tierra: It is, but judging students will begin the moment the student first starts communicating with the org. It's unfair, but to pretend otherwise is just not to acknowledge human nature. |
| 07:03.58 | swook | because though GSoC is fundamentally different from standard internships |
| 07:04.04 | swook | it's still an 'internship' in purpose |
| 07:04.10 | swook | in a student's point of view |
| 07:04.31 | |Kev| | I'm not saying that "Oh, they said Sir, they're out" is a sensible metric, but pretending that it doesn't matter and wouldn't affect people's opinions isn't helpful either. |
| 07:04.41 | aadi025 | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:04.43 | swook | that is true |
| 07:05.10 | tierra | well, the more appropriate action would be to inform and encourage the student to be more casual or whatever is best for your community |
| 07:05.22 | swook | aadi025: I'm not saying anything about GSoC, just saying it's not unreasonable to expect students to enter it initially with the same mindset as approaching some sort of a research internship |
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| 07:05.41 | swook | tierra: that would be nice, yes |
| 07:05.59 | |Kev| | swook: That's an interesting point, though. |
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| 07:06.16 | |Kev| | From the org's PoV they may very much not want students to enter it thinking of it as an internship. Possibly. |
| 07:06.54 | swook | I've found GSoC projects can be in some ways... 'unapproachable'. Main examples being: don't ping people on IRC, don't PM them. Don't e-mail them directly, just mail the mailing list. But if you do mail the mailing list, if you don't follow our culture, we'll judge you, sometimes severely. |
| 07:07.02 | swook | |Kev|: that's fair enough too |
| 07:07.20 | swook | I would want to pick someone who has bothered to do their research as a mentor |
| 07:07.36 | |Kev| | And how open projects are varies vastly across orgs. |
| 07:07.42 | |Kev| | And I really mean /vastly/. |
| 07:07.46 | swook | oh, just to make it clear, I've no negative experience. I was just curious |
| 07:08.12 | |Kev| | Some go to great lengths to encourage and help students. Some very little. |
| 07:08.27 | tierra | you do have to consider that this program is largly here to encourage new talent to get involved (not to say that it isn't also for students that have been already toying with those orgs as well)... and if everyone isn't at least a little tolerable of new members and welcoming, that mission has failed |
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| 10:54.41 | harshadura__ | !logs |
| 10:54.41 | gsocbot | harshadura__: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 10:55.07 | OsakaFoo | !cookie |
| 10:55.08 | gsocbot | OsakaFoo: "cookie" is omnomnom |
| 10:55.18 | OsakaFoo | hugs gsocbot |
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| 11:33.02 | LekS | !help |
| 11:33.03 | gsocbot | LekS: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. |
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| 11:52.19 | LekS | !google |
| 11:52.20 | gsocbot | LekS: "google" is not the cosmic cash machine |
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| 12:04.23 | thedarki | Есть русскоговорящие? |
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| 12:05.03 | hired777 | yes |
| 12:11.03 | Phantomas | What financial document does google issue for paying the gsoc students? |
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| 12:14.54 | harshadura_ | Phantomas: Visa Debit card |
| 12:15.20 | paultag | ww … what? |
| 12:15.31 | waldi | Phantomas: none. at least for out-of-us students. you are responsible for your own tax stuff |
| 12:16.33 | harshadura_ | drinks some tea |
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| 12:27.47 | Phantomas | waldi: so there is no document from you proving that a student got money? Like a "receipt" or something. (I'm not from USA, no idea how it works there) |
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| 12:28.41 | paultag | Phantomas: I think they issue US interns tax documents as if they were contractors - W-2, I think? |
| 12:28.59 | paultag | Phantomas: but I'm not sure they do that with international folks |
| 12:29.17 | patrickg | Phantomas: you have to declare to the IRS (as non-US citizen, using the non-citizen form, which makes them tell the tax service of your country, if the necessary agreements exist between them and the US) |
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| 12:30.28 | olly | at this point you'd probably do better to focus on trying to write a good proposal and getting a place |
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| 12:31.18 | olly | if you don't, the payment details are irrelevant |
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| 12:32.41 | Phantomas | olly: Have you thought that someone who has already some income of a certain form, may not be able to get paid? |
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| 12:34.04 | Phantomas | (for his gsoc work) |
| 12:38.01 | Kiddy | Hello i am looking for some informations about the gsoc, someone could help me please ? (pm) |
| 12:38.58 | Lennie | !faq | Kiddy |
| 12:38.59 | gsocbot | Kiddy: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2013/help_page |
| 12:39.04 | Lennie | Would be the best place to start |
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| 12:41.21 | Kiddy | nevermind i already went there (on the faq) i will ask a friend that already did the gsoc maybe he won't tell me to go to web site i already went but whatever ... thank you bye |
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| 12:44.51 | neverpanic | That escalated quickly... |
| 12:45.20 | patrickg | well, what's in a name? |
| 12:47.06 | davorb | have all of the mentors been decided yet? |
| 12:47.39 | |Kev| | Who will be a mentor is determined by which projects get done. |
| 12:47.49 | |Kev| | So no, and they won't be until the students are selected. |
| 12:47.57 | |Kev| | But all the mentoring /orgs/ have been selected. |
| 12:48.39 | |Kev| | So the pool of potential mentors is fairly well fleshed out at this point. |
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| 12:51.30 | swook | |Kev|: when orgs list projects and mentors, they sometimes list "proposed" mentors, but at times simply list mentors. Do they tend to not be 'confirmed' mentors? |
| 12:54.05 | |Kev| | All mentors are potential mentors at the moment. |
| 12:54.29 | |Kev| | An org may have decided that if Project A gets selected then Person B will mentor it, but they may decide not to accept any students for Project A. |
| 12:54.48 | swook | ah right |
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| 13:03.34 | kai | swook: you can also switch mentors while the program is running, iirc |
| 13:04.43 | swook | Ah I see, that's useful to know. Thanks kai |
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| 13:13.07 | kai | swook: I never had to do that, so I'm not 100% certain. Of course the worst case scenario if you do have to switch mentors is that the new mentor won't get a t-shirt and the admin has to fill in the surveys |
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| 14:10.27 | kkthecoder | in mailing list we mail to an organization rather than a mentor..? |
| 14:13.55 | dfighter | kkthecoder that depends on the organization and what you'd like to work on |
| 14:14.52 | dfighter | for example if you want to work on a project idea that the organization provided, then it probably already has a mentor, and probably it's reasonable to communicate with the specified mentor directly |
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| 14:15.22 | dfighter | on the other hand if you want to roll your own idea, then you don't have much of a choice and address the entire community |
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| 14:15.51 | kkthecoder | okk. dfighter.. |
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| 14:51.23 | gevaerts | doesn't fully agree with dfighter |
| 14:51.45 | gevaerts | I'd say it's often best to talk to the organisation |
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| 15:34.30 | Uli- | good afternoon |
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| 15:38.21 | chrismed | hello, I'm confused; the GSoC schedule says that we start coding on June 17 and the suggested "pencil down" date is September 16; that's 13 weeks; as far as I know, our schedule should be only 12 weeks long; am I right? |
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| 15:40.02 | MatthewWilkes | chrismed: Looks right to me |
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| 15:41.59 | chrismed | MatthewWilkes: what does look right? my assumption (12 weeks) or GSoC schedule (13 weeks)? |
| 15:42.59 | MatthewWilkes | chrismed: that june 17th - september 16th is the coding period, which is 13 weeks |
| 15:43.53 | chrismed | MatthewWilkes: ok, thank you |
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| 16:46.54 | lionaneesh | Is there a restriction on the age limit of the mntors? |
| 16:46.57 | lionaneesh | *mentors? |
| 16:47.04 | carols | lionaneesh: yes, they must be 18 or older. |
| 16:47.21 | lionaneesh | carols: I am turning 18 on 18th, will that be okay? |
| 16:47.28 | carols | the 18th of this month? |
| 16:47.33 | lionaneesh | Yeah! |
| 16:47.40 | carols | yes, that's fine |
| 16:47.45 | carols | and happy birthday :-) |
| 16:47.51 | lionaneesh | Awesome. Thanks! |
| 16:47.56 | carols | yw |
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| 16:50.25 | tomprince | And, in any case, that is only for the person/people officially designated as a mentor. There is nothing preventing others from taking on that role. |
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| 16:51.30 | scorche|sh | tomprince: well, someone who is not enrolled with GSoC and labelled as a mentor will have issues trying to complete the midterm and final survey.. |
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| 16:51.38 | scorche|sh | but yes, i know what you meant ;) |
| 16:53.01 | lionaneesh | and don't forget the cool tee! |
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| 17:17.49 | doda | hi folks, what is this period officialy called, and is it to late to search for a project ? :) |
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| 17:18.43 | MatthewWilkes | doda: It's not too late, proposal submission hasn't started yet |
| 17:18.49 | dhaun | doda: I don't think it has an official name, but I'd say you're just in time |
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| 17:20.19 | doda | mhm, thanks |
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| 17:47.59 | carols | hey lh :-) |
| 17:48.03 | carols | long time no talk |
| 17:48.09 | carols | serves some tea and coffee |
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| 17:48.37 | Catfish_Man | lh! carols! hello :) |
| 17:48.43 | lh | carols, how are you? :) |
| 17:48.48 | carols | hey Catfish_Man :-) |
| 17:48.49 | lh | Catfish_Man, greets! |
| 17:49.01 | carols | lh: i'm good! just busy with gsoc, as i'm sure you know :-) |
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| 17:49.06 | carols | how are you? |
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| 17:49.58 | lh | carols, i can imagine. :) doing well, thank you. greetings from the openstack summit in portlandia |
| 17:50.32 | carols | lh: sounds nice :-) you speaking? |
| 17:50.54 | lh | carols, not this time around. flying the local flag amongst the hat folk. |
| 17:51.35 | carols | sounds great. |
| 17:51.40 | carols | hope you're having a good time. |
| 17:51.55 | megha | what if i my 2 projects get's accepted ? |
| 17:51.59 | megha | i* |
| 17:52.14 | lh | carols, indeedy. will let you get back to it. :) |
| 17:52.40 | carols | thanks very much :-) |
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| 17:53.19 | |Kev| | megha: Then the orgs will work out which one gets accepted between themselves. Possibly asking you, possibly not. |
| 17:53.34 | |Kev| | But it's not something to worry about as long as you only apply to projects you really want to do (and you should). |
| 17:54.05 | megha | |Kev|: ok, i am giong to apply for 2 projects, which both i have got very involved into. |
| 17:56.13 | doda | should the mentors see the proposal before i send it? |
| 17:56.24 | |Kev| | Ask them. |
| 17:56.43 | |Kev| | You should certainly be talking to them before you send it. |
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| 17:58.46 | doda | mhm ok, that makes sense, thanks :) |
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| 22:53.30 | KrisC | if a students proposal is accepted are they allowed to make changes to it? |
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| 22:55.32 | ojwb | KrisC: you'd discuss with your mentor/org if you think something needs changing in the light of development work |
| 22:55.36 | neverpanic | Not officially, but if you notice during the work phase that a different structure would make more sense you can always talk to your mentor. |
| 22:55.55 | scorche|sh | KrisC: that is up to the mentoring org - but you will not be able to edit it in the melange app itself |
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| 22:56.16 | KrisC | alright, thanks ojwb neverpanic scorche|sh |
| 22:57.35 | Arthur_M | Is there any way to convince Google managers to give a new project three slots? ;-) |
| 22:58.16 | ojwb | Arthur_M: i'd wait until you see what proposals you actually have |
| 22:58.39 | ojwb | once the slots are allocated, you can ask for another and put your case |
| 22:59.01 | scorche|sh | Arthur_M: they will allocate however they will allocate - if you are allocated 2, you might be able to get another from another project willing to give one up (which happens often when more than one org wants a particular student) |
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| 23:01.13 | Arthur_M | Thanks - we have a lot of promising students so we'll ask for three if at all possible :-) |
| 23:01.19 | ojwb | Arthur_M: I'd be cautious if none of you have mentored in gsoc before though - most people are surprised how much work it can be |
| 23:01.43 | Arthur_M | Sure |
| 23:01.45 | ojwb | better to have 2 students do well than 3 struggle due to mentors being overwhelmed |
| 23:03.08 | Arthur_M | Of course |
| 23:09.43 | KrisC | are mentors paid? |
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| 23:10.29 | Catfish_Man | KrisC: mentoring organizations are paid (though much less than students), and may choose to use that to pay mentors |
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| 23:11.59 | KrisC | Catfish_Man: ok. looks like the organizations get $500/student. |
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| 23:18.58 | KrisC | if i get accepted to any of the internships i applied to, will i have to cancel gsoc if i am accepted there as well? i am sure i can manage both. |
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| 23:19.33 | ojwb | dropping out of gsoc after you're accepted is a really nasty thing to do |
| 23:19.38 | sukhe | KrisC: gsoc should be treated as a full-time job |
| 23:20.05 | KrisC | so i should cancel the internship if i'm accepted by gsoc then? |
| 23:20.07 | ojwb | the slot will get lost, so you've just spoilt someone else's chance of a place |
| 23:20.20 | ojwb | i'd say so |
| 23:20.29 | ojwb | or not apply if you'd going to take the internship |
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| 23:20.38 | someta | "I am sure i can manage both." - Famous last words. |
| 23:21.03 | ojwb | oh, i missed that |
| 23:21.09 | KrisC | i want to do both if it's allowed. |
| 23:21.10 | ojwb | you won't - one of both will suffer |
| 23:21.41 | ojwb | usually gsoc IME, since the internship is harder to quietly drop out of |
| 23:22.23 | KrisC | ok, if i hear back from companies before gsoc acceptance deadline, i won't be submitting any application. wouldn't want to waste anyone's slot. |
| 23:22.36 | ThomasWaldmann | KrisC: it's not very useful to be tired of your other job and then trying to be a creative and good software developer for gsoc |
| 23:23.03 | ThomasWaldmann | s/of/from/ |
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| 23:23.23 | KrisC | ThomasWaldmann: may not be useful but i can handle it. i've worked 2 jobs before. |
| 23:23.48 | someta | Where creativity was required? |
| 23:23.52 | ThomasWaldmann | it'll impact quality for both |
| 23:23.57 | ojwb | KrisC: seriously, don't do it |
| 23:24.00 | gevaerts | Being as effective on each one as you'd have been on just one? |
| 23:24.13 | ojwb | as a mentor it's no fun having to poke your student to work because they |
| 23:24.18 | ojwb | have another job |
| 23:24.22 | ojwb | and then have to fail them |
| 23:24.28 | ojwb | waste of the mentor's time |
| 23:24.30 | ojwb | waste of a slot |
| 23:25.24 | KrisC | you're actually right, if i have to choose between the two, i'll just stick to internship since it's higher pay and i'll get the opportunity to meet and socialize with people offline. |
| 23:26.16 | ThomasWaldmann | if money is your main motivation you should do it like that, yes |
| 23:26.33 | ThomasWaldmann | (or meeting ppl offline) |
| 23:26.46 | someta | Is it a complete waste of time to apply to an org without even looking at the source code? |
| 23:27.14 | ojwb | someta: how do you know if you can do the project if you've not seen the code? |
| 23:27.15 | jayrambhia | someta, what's the point of gsoc then? |
| 23:27.17 | gevaerts | someta: Is there a good reason to do that? |
| 23:28.20 | KrisC | ThomasWaldmann: money wasn't my main motivation, experience was. but money is also important. |
| 23:29.13 | ThomasWaldmann | hard to compare the experience without both knowing the company and the gsoc org... |
| 23:30.07 | KrisC | true, gsoc has a lot of diff organizations and could open up more opportunities for jobs within that organization. |
| 23:30.31 | ThomasWaldmann | IF they offer jobs |
| 23:32.01 | ThomasWaldmann | one must set priorities ^^ |
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