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| 00:41.13 | thebolt | morning |
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| 00:50.41 | alex|D-Guy2 | thebolt, nah, 2:50 am still counts as night :D |
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| 00:53.57 | thebolt | alex|D-Guy2: #gsoc is always in universal-morning-time.. its always morning when you arrive ;) |
| 00:54.29 | alex|D-Guy2 | did I arrive? ;D |
| 00:55.16 | thebolt | no, but i did :) |
| 00:55.50 | thebolt | and well, it is actually morning here.. 8:55 am |
| 00:56.17 | alex|D-Guy2 | well, I'll go to bed now, had a long day..codin' all the time :D |
| 00:56.34 | alex|D-Guy2 | cya |
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| 01:42.35 | JakeDust | thebolt: You sent that message exactly at 9:55 pm here, it's funny. |
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| 12:13.57 | kblin | ah, durn |
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| 12:15.04 | thebolt | hi kblin |
| 12:16.44 | kblin | hey thebolt |
| 12:17.11 | kblin | looks like my 10.04 system is too old :/ |
| 12:17.48 | |Kev| | Too old for whom? |
| 12:18.45 | kblin | well, third-party software I want to install |
| 12:18.57 | kblin | like ceph |
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| 12:19.08 | kblin | and stuff my co-worker sends me |
| 12:19.46 | kblin | but I can't decide what system to install.. not a plain ubuntu, for sure, unity was pretty horrid last time I looked at it |
| 12:20.17 | simonl | kblin: I hear good things about Mint |
| 12:20.33 | |Kev| | kblin: I use plain Ubuntu and ignore Unity. |
| 12:20.48 | |Kev| | Actually, that's not true. I think I'm on kubuntu-desktop these days. |
| 12:20.56 | kblin | |Kev|: so what desktop environment are you using? |
| 12:21.03 | kblin | kde, then? |
| 12:21.08 | |Kev| | Yeah. |
| 12:21.20 | |Kev| | I'm not a huge fan, but it's not offending me particularly. |
| 12:21.30 | kblin | is that more than a design study in how to make the prettiest thing you can't use? |
| 12:22.02 | |Kev| | I've not exactly been a vocal supporter of KDE, but the version you get from kubuntu 12.04 isn't offending me. |
| 12:22.20 | kblin | hm, worth a try, I guess |
| 12:22.24 | |Kev| | I don't know how much of this is KDE usability improving and how much is my standards being lowered by exposure to Unity. |
| 12:22.42 | kblin | hehe |
| 12:23.01 | |Kev| | I don't have high requirements from a DE - yet all the modern ones seem to fail to provide. |
| 12:23.18 | |Kev| | I basically want it to just do what my Mac does for me. |
| 12:23.23 | kblin | simonl: so the thing that concerns me about mint is that they've dumbed down the installer enough to not allow installs on encrypted LVMs |
| 12:23.40 | |Kev| | Which means something like Alfred, alt-tab, and application hiding. At a push I'll settle for window hiding instead of application hiding. |
| 12:24.02 | |Kev| | And alt-` |
| 12:24.20 | kblin | something the plain debian installer provides just fine |
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| 12:24.45 | |Kev| | I used to be a fluxbox user when I used to use Deb back in the lab. Maybe I should go back to that, and try to patch anything it doesn't provide. |
| 12:25.01 | kblin | but unfortunately I've got an nvidia card, and I'm not sure how painful that is in debian these days |
| 12:25.21 | kblin | and of course (like always) I don't actually have time to play with my OS, I've got work to do |
| 12:25.28 | |Kev| | Right. |
| 12:26.13 | kblin | but right now work requires me to look at ceph, and support in my 10.04 kernel really doesn't cut it |
| 12:26.25 | kblin | and the backport kernels are broken for LXC |
| 12:26.37 | simonl | I've kind of gotten used to Gnome 3. It's gotten a lot better, but you still need to fiddle with (g|d)conf to get it to work the way you (well, I) want |
| 12:26.39 | |Kev| | I want to be able to use Linux as my desktop - particularly as I want to replace my workstation and replacing it with a similar Mac would be upwards of two grand. I just keep getting frustrated when I try to get into a productive zone with it. |
| 12:26.45 | thebolt | i am on ubuntu 12.04 and KDE as well (just switched to KDE).. its acceptable |
| 12:27.01 | |Kev| | simonl: I didn't find Gnome3 very offensive - other than the keybindings outright not working. |
| 12:27.11 | |Kev| | Gnome3 + gnome do, that is. |
| 12:27.21 | |Kev| | Couldn't be having with the overlay thing in either gnome3 or unity. |
| 12:27.54 | kblin | ok, I guess what I actually need to do is to make an image of my system so I can roll back to something that works if I have to |
| 12:28.15 | simonl | Didn't try gnome do since I started using gnome 3, but gnome shell is nowhere near gnome do's mind reading capabilities |
| 12:28.41 | |Kev| | I'd like something as good as Alfred. I've not managed to get Gnome Do close, yet. |
| 12:28.53 | kblin | googles alfred |
| 12:29.00 | simonl | too |
| 12:29.01 | |Kev| | Somewhat confusingly, the thing I miss most on Linux vs. Mac is ... vim |
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| 12:29.21 | |Kev| | gvim doesn't measure up to mvim. |
| 12:29.38 | kblin | I'm still on console vim |
| 12:29.56 | |Kev| | Terminals are the other thing. |
| 12:30.04 | kblin | is there anything fancy mvim can do you can't easily do on the console? |
| 12:30.10 | |Kev| | I don't know what it is about iTerm that offends me much less than any of the Linux terms, but it does. |
| 12:30.36 | |Kev| | kblin: other than sensible colours without hours of frustration? Probably not. |
| 12:30.49 | |Kev| | Well, yes. |
| 12:30.53 | |Kev| | Copy/paste when splitting windows. |
| 12:31.11 | |Kev| | Which fails horribly when you're in a terminal. |
| 12:31.15 | |Kev| | (Vertical splits) |
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| 12:31.27 | |Kev| | In fact, copy/paste in general with macvim works better than in a terminal. |
| 12:31.58 | |Kev| | I'm not an advanced vim user - I only finally settled on it in the last 6 months or so as being the editor I don't hate. |
| 12:32.16 | |Kev| | (Thanks to the magic powers of ctrlp, mostly - until that I couldn't stand it for anything other than single-file editing) |
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| 12:32.34 | kblin | hehe |
| 12:32.51 | kblin | I keep hitting that in other editors and wondering why the print dialog opens |
| 12:33.04 | |Kev| | Almost all other editors have it built in. |
| 12:33.11 | |Kev| | Modern editors, that is - although it may be on a different keybind. |
| 12:33.22 | |Kev| | Textmate, Sublime Text, Netbeans, Eclipse all have it. |
| 12:33.27 | |Kev| | Or something like it. |
| 12:33.27 | simonl | what is ctrl+p in this case? |
| 12:33.35 | |Kev| | simonl: Fuzzy file opening. |
| 12:33.40 | |Kev| | It's a vim plugin. |
| 12:34.08 | thebolt | (g)vim is probably the first thing i install on any new system i will use, no matter which OS :P |
| 12:34.11 | |Kev| | so ctrl-p fmuc will open blah/blah/blah/blah/amp_fmuc.c for me. |
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| 12:34.24 | |Kev| | thebolt: Me too, and always has been - but mostly for config editing. |
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| 12:34.46 | simonl | ah, yeah that I have been getting used too :) |
| 12:34.49 | |Kev| | I've always liked vim as a text editor. But not as a dev environment (until now - and I still need to make it better) |
| 12:35.00 | simonl | though not on a file level in my case :) |
| 12:35.23 | thebolt | i use it as my main "ide" these days |
| 12:35.31 | |Kev| | I need to get syntastic working better for me. |
| 12:35.45 | |Kev| | thebolt: Me too, now. |
| 12:36.15 | |Kev| | I've been through the works over the years - emacs, eclipse, netbeans, textmate, sublime text, and further back notepad++ and things on Windows. |
| 12:36.19 | thebolt | gvim+make without any crazy autoconf/automake crabage etc |
| 12:36.24 | |Kev| | gedit, kate. |
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| 12:36.49 | PioneerAxon | wonders if anyone have read his blog recently about gnome classic on ubuntu 12.04 |
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| 12:38.21 | PioneerAxon | http://linux-experiments.blogspot.com |
| 12:39.21 | |Kev| | It has the same problems as Gnome3 for me. Key bindings don't work. |
| 12:40.16 | simonl | I'm using keybindings in Gnome 3, but not involving Super |
| 12:40.22 | PioneerAxon | Yeah. But if you replace window manager with compiz, then it works out to be great.. |
| 12:40.45 | |Kev| | Is there any Linux DE where cmd-h does what I want it to (where such a keybinding is possible)? |
| 12:41.02 | |Kev| | (Hide the current application) |
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| 12:41.32 | PioneerAxon | yes.. Compiz + ccsm + any supported DE |
| 12:41.53 | simonl | which button is cmd? same as "Windows key"? |
| 12:42.00 | |Kev| | simonl: Yes. |
| 12:42.14 | simonl | ah, Super in linux then :) |
| 12:42.18 | |Kev| | Yes. |
| 12:42.26 | Triskelios | PioneerAxon: this is not the place to advertise your personal stuff |
| 12:42.36 | simonl | but in gnome 3 that is broken :/ at least last I tried |
| 12:42.43 | |Kev| | simonl: Right. This irritates me. |
| 12:42.58 | |Kev| | PioneerAxon: I never found that option when using compiz. Is it new? |
| 12:43.05 | |Kev| | I only ever found 'minimise current window'. |
| 12:43.26 | PioneerAxon | Triskelios: I was not advertising my blog. It just happen to have the exact post, which was being discussed.. |
| 12:43.42 | simonl | hmm, is hiding different? |
| 12:44.04 | PioneerAxon | |Kev|: Have you tried configuring compiz with ccsm (compiz config settings manager) |
| 12:44.24 | |Kev| | simonl: Yes, if you hide an application all of that application's windows will vanish, stop being shown in the list of windows in the tray or whatever, and when you alt-tab back to it or click on it in the dock all windows will reappear as they were. |
| 12:44.31 | |Kev| | PioneerAxon: I couldn't say. |
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| 12:44.57 | |Kev| | simonl: Whereas if you minimise a window a) that window alone will go and b) it'll be shown in the minimised windows area. |
| 12:45.06 | simonl | |Kev|: Ah, yeah that is different indeed :) |
| 12:45.19 | PioneerAxon | Hmm, if you have any extra systems lying around, you can try ccsm. WARNING: It is a powerful tool. Handle with care.. :P |
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| 12:45.58 | |Kev| | There's nothing quite like patronising someone to make them feel good, is there? |
| 12:46.00 | simonl | I don't remember ever seeing that in ccsm, though I never went looking for it |
| 12:46.41 | PioneerAxon | I think there is a package called compiz-plugins-extras or something with plugins similar to this.. |
| 12:47.30 | simonl | and ccsm's shooting yourself in the foot capabilities is a nice contrast to Gnome 3's "You do not want to change this" attitude |
| 12:47.48 | kblin | :) |
| 12:48.08 | PioneerAxon | simonl: Yes.. :P |
| 12:48.09 | |Kev| | I want my OS to expose just enough to let me set it so I can be productive. |
| 12:48.28 | |Kev| | I have little desire to tweak stuff. I used to do that when I was much younger. |
| 12:48.33 | kblin | full ack |
| 12:48.41 | kblin | these days I'm just trying to get work done |
| 12:48.48 | kblin | and things keep getting in my way |
| 12:48.55 | |Kev| | And thus I'm not on Linux anymore. |
| 12:49.28 | |Kev| | Even though almost every application I use is cross-platform. |
| 12:49.32 | kblin | I couldn't afford the workstation I've got if it had an apple logo onit |
| 12:49.48 | PioneerAxon | |Kev|: What?? really?? Then how do you do personalization in Windows?? |
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| 12:50.09 | |Kev| | I didn't pay for this (Mac Pro, dual quad-core xeons), although upgrades like RAM and SSD I've since paid for. |
| 12:50.26 | |Kev| | PioneerAxon: I don't. Do keep up. |
| 12:50.34 | kblin | ubuntu's still recommending 32bit as default? seriously? |
| 12:50.43 | simonl | |Kev|: That sounds like a very nice machine :) |
| 12:50.48 | |Kev| | kblin: 4096MB should be enough for anyone. |
| 12:50.55 | |Kev| | simonl: It was, four years ago when it was new. |
| 12:51.13 | simonl | _still_ sounds like it to me :) |
| 12:51.16 | kblin | |Kev|: I've heard that line before |
| 12:51.26 | simonl | or wait, does it predate Nehalem? |
| 12:51.28 | PioneerAxon | |Kev|: 4GB is not enough.. I use RAMFS to load stuff onto RAM and use full power of my machine.. :P |
| 12:51.31 | |Kev| | I was doing lots of ML stuff at the time and needed something powerful. These days not so much, and the other bits are showing their age. |
| 12:51.44 | kblin | PioneerAxon: I think it's called irony |
| 12:51.58 | |Kev| | PioneerAxon: Are you really so young you've never been exposed to that quote? |
| 12:51.59 | thebolt | still, you can use more than 4GB total on 32-bit (PAE etc), and very few single apps needs 64-bit memory space |
| 12:52.33 | kblin | thebolt: apart from that huge number crunching stuff I've got my machine for ;) |
| 12:52.41 | PioneerAxon | |Kev|: Oops!! I just totally ignored the Bill Gates stuff.. :P |
| 12:52.42 | thebolt | will be interesting to see if the x32-people get it somewhere, give you 64-bit registers etc but 32-bit pointers/memory etc |
| 12:53.10 | thebolt | kblin: yea, true, there are some cases.. also includes my big CAD drawings, or VMs with 4GB+ in-vm RAM |
| 12:53.12 | |Kev| | simonl: I'm trying to find the proc's serial number at the moment. |
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| 12:54.38 | |Kev| | simonl: 5400 series. |
| 12:54.41 | kblin | |Kev|: I take with dual quad-xeons, you also don't need extra heating.. |
| 12:54.53 | |Kev| | kblin: My study is quite warm. |
| 12:54.58 | thebolt | and hae a smaller nuclear reactor out back ;) |
| 12:55.02 | thebolt | time for (late) dinner.. |
| 12:56.07 | |Kev| | simonl: After a brief read-around, I think the 5500 introduced Nehalem, so yes - it predates it. It's core-based. |
| 12:57.46 | |Kev| | Some nice i7 PC with 16GB RAM would suit me fine - and I could even afford one with a little saving, but I just can't bring myself to have the productivity hit switching to Linux. |
| 12:57.47 | simonl | I _think_ the xeons got a pretty good boost with Nehalem |
| 12:58.09 | |Kev| | And buying a new Mac Pro is...unlikely. |
| 12:59.02 | simonl | hehe, Well, the productivity hit might make the mac worth it after all |
| 12:59.14 | |Kev| | Looking at the list of http://wiki.compiz.org/PluginsExtra I don't see anything that suggests it'll do app hiding. |
| 12:59.36 | kblin | oh, which reminds me of the other beef I had recently |
| 12:59.40 | simonl | of course, you need to afford to buy it in the first place |
| 12:59.41 | kblin | video editing |
| 13:00.04 | |Kev| | simonl: I managed to persuade my last employer to buy this one for me. I suspect I'd have less luck now. |
| 13:00.08 | simonl | that _sucks_ in linux |
| 13:00.20 | simonl | video editing, that is |
| 13:00.47 | kblin | doing that for a 3h movie on a G4 PPC isn't fun, but I failed to find a single useful application for linux that wasn't broken somehow |
| 13:00.49 | |Kev| | I'd also miss xcode - I don't use it as my IDE, but I do use it for debugging. |
| 13:01.11 | kblin | most of them share the problem that they're trying to do multithreading in python |
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| 13:01.37 | |Kev| | Oh, and the network-condition faking stuff, that's tremendously useful when you're trying to simulate satellite links. |
| 13:02.06 | simonl | I had serious problems finding an app that a) could crop video(!) and b) didn't completely mess up the colors in the process |
| 13:02.28 | simonl | XCode has that? |
| 13:02.56 | simonl | that is an amazing feature for mobile development |
| 13:03.09 | kblin | |Kev|: you could wrap your socket calls, I guess |
| 13:03.15 | |Kev| | simonl: The OS itself has that. |
| 13:03.39 | simonl | neat |
| 13:03.48 | |Kev| | simonl: You just say "I want my network to have x% packet loss, max 4kbit up, 4kbit down and a latency of a second" and suddenly it does. |
| 13:03.54 | |Kev| | Through a nice GUI, of course. |
| 13:04.15 | kblin | |Kev|: we've got a socket wrapper library in samba that would allow to implement that, I guess |
| 13:04.33 | kblin | not that we've tried, when dealing with file sharing, life is hard enough even if your network isn't crap |
| 13:04.36 | |Kev| | http://hector.doomsong.co.uk/scratch/netcond.png |
| 13:05.15 | |Kev| | kblin: Not quite as convenient as just firing up System Preferences and changing the network profile though, I imagine. |
| 13:05.37 | simonl | That is one killer feature for development |
| 13:05.57 | simonl | If I did any serious mobile development, I would want that |
| 13:05.59 | |Kev| | It's a fairly edge case, but if you're on that edge, it's startingly useful. |
| 13:06.07 | kblin | I can imagine |
| 13:06.32 | |Kev| | It's not quite good enough for modelling HF, but it's good enough for Iridium. |
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| 13:26.00 | kblin | ooooh |
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| 13:26.41 | kblin | just remembered there's an ubuntu 12.04 system to play with around... |
| 13:26.50 | kblin | my bachelor student set up his own system |
| 13:27.03 | kblin | as he's finished, I ran play with that without having to ruin my own box |
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| 14:17.19 | amandae | Hi, I requested a replacement card, do I have to reactivate and set a pin code like the old one ? |
| 14:19.56 | chetan_ | amandae: If the card number has changed and I believe it has, yes you must |
| 14:22.46 | amandae | chetan_ thanks |
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| 16:33.46 | billybob | with gsoc, it is really a great summer! |
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| 16:36.12 | billybob | now I am preparing to withdraw previous payment, but I forget the 'google address' i.e. 'card address' mentioned in the note |
| 16:36.24 | billybob | can anyone give me a hand, thanks! |
| 16:37.02 | billybob | !logs |
| 16:37.02 | gsocbot | billybob: "logs" is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23gsoc/ |
| 16:37.06 | Lennie | billybob, that would be Google Headquarters in MTV. You can find it on google maps |
| 16:37.14 | Lennie | it should be 1600 Amphitheatre parkway, etc |
| 16:37.26 | billybob | oh, thank you, Lennie |
| 16:37.35 | billybob | I'll have a look |
| 16:38.36 | Lennie | billybob, https://plus.sandbox.google.com/110317684749208446095/about?gl=us&hl=en |
| 16:38.46 | Lennie | https://plus.google.com/110317684749208446095/about?gl=us&hl=en |
| 16:38.48 | Lennie | or just that one :0 |
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| 16:39.44 | billybob | aha, sorry, in China we have limited network access ... |
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| 16:39.54 | billybob | those two url is not available for me :( |
| 16:40.03 | Lennie | 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View, CA 94043 |
| 16:40.04 | Lennie | ^^ |
| 16:40.11 | Lennie | now you just need IRC :p |
| 16:40.19 | JEEB | the address is also in your citibank profile |
| 16:40.22 | JEEB | if you log in |
| 16:40.28 | billybob | oh, thanks again! That should be enough! |
| 16:40.37 | billybob | ah, I see, thank you, JEEB! |
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| 16:56.24 | carols | Lennie: you have a sec? |
| 16:56.46 | Lennie | carols, wassup? |
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