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| 00:07.13 | ojwb | tomprince: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#time_mentor |
| 00:07.23 | ojwb | "Five hours per student per week is a reasonable estimate" |
| 00:07.49 | Fatbag | 5 unbroken hours |
| 00:07.55 | ojwb | but there's quite a spread, and you can't always accurately predict for a given student |
| 00:08.10 | ojwb | Fatbag: rarely |
| 00:08.12 | tomprince | okay. I didn't expect to find that data under the student section. |
| 00:08.37 | ojwb | tomprince: don't blame me, i didn't structure it |
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| 00:09.03 | tomprince | I didn't actually think to look through those questions. :) |
| 00:09.18 | ojwb | just searched for "five"... |
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| 00:17.43 | isaacbw | 5 hours? |
| 00:17.53 | isaacbw | that's all? |
| 00:18.02 | isaacbw | oh wait. That's for mentors |
| 00:18.16 | Fatbag | try getting into a slot in the first place :P |
| 00:19.34 | Fatbag | Can I have a link to the GSoC ToS? |
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| 00:20.04 | Fatbag | I just want to completely verify that I'm eligible |
| 00:20.28 | boirea | hey, should i even bother applying for some project if im a first year student who basically only knows some java? |
| 00:21.22 | Fatbag | I've been accepted into an "accredited university", which I know I'm going to next year, and I'm turning 18 on April 14 which is before the April 23 cutoff date in the ToS, which I can't bring up. |
| 00:21.27 | Fatbag | Am I eligible? |
| 00:22.24 | isaacbw | looks like it |
| 00:22.41 | Fatbag | :) |
| 00:23.13 | isaacbw | the FAQ has questions for both of those things, but yes. You should be fine |
| 00:23.20 | Fatbag | Oh nevermind, it's on the FAQ. |
| 00:23.30 | Fatbag | Good! :) |
| 00:25.39 | ojwb | isaacbw: yes, most orgs expect a full-time commitment from students |
| 00:26.40 | ojwb | it would be better if that answer wasn't in the student section - you get the odd student who misreads it |
| 00:27.24 | mathieui | boirea: yes you should, but pick up a task that is marked as easy, and discuss with people in the project first, to know if they are OK with this |
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| 00:27.50 | mathieui | boirea: I think you could learn a lot, whatever your initial knowledge is |
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| 00:35.23 | desti | but it will be very difficult to get a spot with only beginners knowlegde |
| 00:36.24 | ojwb | you're clearly going to have to pick your project more carefully, but attitude and enthusiasm count for a lot |
| 00:36.45 | ojwb | a genius coder who never communicates is no use at all |
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| 00:37.50 | kjbft | Hello |
| 00:40.32 | desti | i will apply for one or two projects this year too, but I don't think I have a chance to get a slot, bc I'm not very experienced with programming and not even studying it :-/ |
| 00:40.46 | kjbft | Is it possible to join gsoc while having an internship? |
| 00:41.11 | nikki93 | Might be a lot of work. |
| 00:41.21 | nikki93 | It says somewhere that you should expect close to a full-time job amount of work to do. |
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| 00:41.49 | kjbft | I mean i'm really interested in joining |
| 00:41.58 | kjbft | Is there a way I can pick a project that has less work? |
| 00:42.41 | nikki93 | You describe the project yourself, so it's up to you. |
| 00:42.59 | nikki93 | (although your proposal has to be accepted by the organisation in question - and they might have requirements on the amount of work to do) |
| 00:42.59 | isaacbw | some organizations will be easier to work with too |
| 00:43.15 | kjbft | what do you mean? |
| 00:43.24 | isaacbw | an operating system would be more difficult than a GUI tool |
| 00:43.29 | ojwb | doing an internship and gsoc at the same time isn't going to work out well for either the internship, your gsoc project, or your sanity |
| 00:43.29 | kjbft | ah true |
| 00:43.54 | nikki93 | I guess it depends, you could do an easy project in an operating system, vs. a hard one in a GUI tool. |
| 00:44.20 | nikki93 | For example, a project to completely redo some large aspect of the GUI tool would be a bigger undertaking than just a few fixes on an OS project on small things. |
| 00:44.23 | desti | even easy work can be a lot of work :-) |
| 00:44.26 | ojwb | possibly not for any of them |
| 00:45.09 | nikki93 | I feel like gsoc will be satisfactory, productive, educational and fun if you are ready to put in as much time as you can. :) |
| 00:45.43 | desti | i saw it in the project descriptions from blr-cad, they have easy task with lot of work and difficult tasks with less work |
| 00:46.08 | kjbft | like during the week i may not have as much time |
| 00:46.12 | kjbft | but my weekends i will be free |
| 00:46.15 | nikki93 | It's more than just picking a project they give you, you have to give your own proposal. |
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| 00:46.33 | nikki93 | And your own proposal has more chances of being accepted if it seems substantial and worth it for the organisation. |
| 00:47.15 | nikki93 | You should just apply! |
| 00:47.26 | kjbft | haha ok |
| 00:47.28 | kjbft | thanks for the advice |
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| 00:50.28 | ojwb | i think if you have an internship, really you should just not apply |
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| 01:22.16 | akshaya4r | Hello |
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| 01:40.29 | pluskid_ | I cannot find where to submit student application. Is it in the dashboard? |
| 01:40.43 | Fatbag | it's on the home page |
| 01:40.54 | Fatbag | https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 |
| 01:40.58 | Fatbag | at the bottom, click Apply |
| 01:42.36 | pluskid_ | Fatbag: Oh, I saw "mentors: apply now!" |
| 01:42.45 | pluskid_ | I thought it is the button for mentors |
| 01:42.55 | Fatbag | um, I see "Students: Apply now!" |
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| 01:43.06 | Fatbag | "[Apply]" (in small text) "to one of the accepted organizations." |
| 01:43.31 | pluskid | Aha? |
| 01:43.41 | pluskid | I'm considered as a mentor? |
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| 01:49.07 | tomprince | pluskid: to get that fixed, mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com with the link_id (top right of your screen) (and the problem) |
| 01:49.28 | pluskid | tomprince: Thanks, I'll do that |
| 01:49.54 | tomprince | !learn apply-mentor as mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com with the link_id (top right of your screen) and tell them you are mistakenly registerd as a mentor |
| 01:49.54 | gsocbot | tomprince: "apply-mentor" is mail melange-soc@googlegroups.com with the link_id (top right of your screen) and tell them you are mistakenly registerd as a mentor |
| 01:52.47 | pluskid | OK |
| 01:52.48 | isaacbw | what's with the melange stuff? what does that mean |
| 01:53.42 | tomprince | isaacbw: melange is the webapp that underlies the gsoc site. |
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| 01:58.55 | harshadura | hi |
| 01:58.57 | harshadura | anyone thr |
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| 01:59.49 | llanford|sahana | Heya, harshadura |
| 02:02.03 | harshadura | hi llanford|sahana, pls can u tell me when applying for gsoc proposals. is thr way to add docx file into it. Or do we need to write it in the melange site itself? |
| 02:02.29 | harshadura | when adding related images also thats lil bit messy i guess |
| 02:03.34 | ojwb | docx is probably about the worst choice of format for working with an open source organisation |
| 02:04.14 | ojwb | it would be like applying for a job with the world wildlife fund with a letter written an panda skin |
| 02:04.38 | harshadura | ojwb, :| |
| 02:05.20 | llanford|sahana | harshadura, have you read the application requirements for the organization you're applying to? |
| 02:05.41 | pluskid | So proposals should be typed in the box instead of uploading (as a PDF, for example)? |
| 02:05.59 | harshadura | yeah, i read them. I am working for OpenMRS |
| 02:06.22 | harshadura | my application is read. but it looks not that nice in melange |
| 02:06.30 | ojwb | it's up to the org how they want them, but i don't think you can upload attachments |
| 02:06.42 | pluskid | ojwb: OK |
| 02:06.43 | harshadura | thats why I asked this case |
| 02:07.18 | ojwb | the edit control is pretty limited though, and tends to mess up the formatting of pasted stuff |
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| 02:07.44 | harshadura | ojwb: exactly |
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| 02:08.22 | cafarm | are non-matriculated students eligible for gsoc? |
| 02:09.09 | Catfish_Man | cafarm: no |
| 02:09.35 | ojwb | hmm, you might be accepted but not have matriculated yet though |
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| 02:09.52 | Catfish_Man | ah. Yeah, that's true |
| 02:10.11 | cafarm | ? |
| 02:10.13 | ojwb | "Google defines a student as an individual enrolled in or accepted into an accredited institution" is the FAQ wording |
| 02:10.27 | ojwb | you need to show proof that that was the case on a particular date |
| 02:10.29 | ojwb | april sometime |
| 02:10.38 | ojwb | 23rd it seems |
| 02:10.38 | cafarm | Yes, that would suggest to me that non-matriculated is eligible |
| 02:10.44 | cafarm | but its unclear |
| 02:10.58 | ojwb | so long as you are (or soon will be) enrolled or accepted |
| 02:11.09 | andytarr | is the mentor google list open to the organization's admin? |
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| 02:11.17 | ojwb | andytarr: yes |
| 02:11.22 | ojwb | you should get added automatically |
| 02:11.24 | cafarm | A non-matriculated student is enrolled... |
| 02:11.31 | andytarr | I wasn't |
| 02:11.40 | censorydep | cafarm, I'd suggest you wait for carols on that one before putting in a lot of time, energy and effort. |
| 02:12.07 | cafarm | Do I email her or is she in here? |
| 02:12.17 | censorydep | to be clearer: wait for carols and ask her. She's generally in here business hours PST. |
| 02:12.18 | ojwb | she's not here right now |
| 02:12.34 | censorydep | some of the old hands will probably have a better sense whether she takes questions via email. |
| 02:13.21 | cafarm | Ok. I'll come back during business hours. Thanks. |
| 02:13.42 | censorydep | np. And good luck! |
| 02:13.55 | andytarr | should I wait for Carol, too, about getting on the mentor list? |
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| 02:15.39 | ojwb | censorydep: you can email carols, but at this point in the process she's probably rather busy so it's good to try to avoid it if it doesn't actually need her attention |
| 02:15.46 | censorydep | andytarr, I'm more of a friend-of-GSOC rather than anything, so I am honestly not sure what the communication norms are for org admins. |
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| 02:16.01 | censorydep | and/or what ojwb said. :-) |
| 02:16.14 | ojwb | i suspect list membership is one for her |
| 02:16.30 | ojwb | previously new people have been added in batches |
| 02:16.39 | ojwb | I'd have thought by now though |
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| 02:20.01 | andytarr | ok, I'll try again tomorrow when she's more likely to be around |
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| 02:36.57 | Fafnirical | If I have a friend who is a college sophomore but only 17 years old, could he apply to GSOC? |
| 02:37.14 | Catfish_Man | Fafnirical: my understanding is that the 18 year old minimum is due to employment law issues :/ |
| 02:38.15 | Fafnirical | Catfish_Man: Oh? Really? I thought that most states in the US require employees to be 16... Could exceptions be made depending on the mentoring organization? |
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| 02:38.34 | Catfish_Man | Fafnirical: no, all the legalities are handled by google, not the mentoring orgs |
| 02:39.24 | tomprince | april 23 is the day on which things matter. |
| 02:39.25 | isaacbw | Fafnirical, it also has to do with copyright. A minor can't legally own the copyright to code |
| 02:39.33 | isaacbw | and involving parents would be a huge burden on Google |
| 02:39.57 | Catfish_Man | isaacbw: ah, thank you |
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| 02:40.15 | Fafnirical | Catfish_Man, isaacbw: Ah, okay, thank you. |
| 02:40.43 | isaacbw | but also employment laws, I'm sure. Don't cite me, I'm not a google employee |
| 02:40.51 | Catfish_Man | hehe, neither am I |
| 02:41.04 | censorydep | I am, and still don't cite me. ;-) |
| 02:41.14 | isaacbw | hah |
| 02:41.28 | censorydep | (in this case, Catfish_Man and isaacbw likely know more than I do, though) |
| 02:41.53 | censorydep | however, I will say that in my experience, GSOC is not big on exceptions of any kind |
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| 02:42.02 | ojwb | whatever the reason is, mentoring orgs can't make exceptions to the age requirement |
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| 02:42.52 | ojwb | censorydep: except the programming sort |
| 02:43.02 | censorydep | badum-pum! |
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| 02:44.15 | isaacbw | Fafnirical, how on earth is your friend a college sophomore at 17 |
| 02:44.21 | Fafnirical | Though, after checking on the legal statutes, minors can claim copyright (as per http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-who.html ), and minors can be hired in California. |
| 02:44.49 | Catfish_Man | isaacbw: my brother was taking second year math classes at Reed as a high school student, it's not thaaaat uncommon |
| 02:44.50 | Fafnirical | isaacbw: Early college. |
| 02:45.13 | isaacbw | I guess... but a sophomore |
| 02:45.25 | ojwb | there was a girl got into oxford university at age 12: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Lawrence |
| 02:45.37 | ryao | isaacbw: I am a PhD student at age 22. |
| 02:45.39 | Fafnirical | isaacbw: Ronan Farrow graduated from the college at age 16. He then started at Yale Law. |
| 02:45.48 | isaacbw | man, 12 year olds can't think the right way to get the most out of college |
| 02:45.51 | isaacbw | that's just ridiculous |
| 02:46.23 | ojwb | yeah, imagine being at university and not legally able to drink |
| 02:46.27 | isaacbw | haha |
| 02:46.40 | censorydep | ojwb, you mean like most freshman in the uS? ;-) |
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| 02:46.51 | ojwb | censorydep: indeed |
| 02:47.23 | isaacbw | I'll bet Ruth Lawrence is horribly awkward |
| 02:47.38 | isaacbw | or was. She must be 80 now |
| 02:47.48 | ojwb | bops isaacbw |
| 02:47.53 | ojwb | she was born the same year as me |
| 02:48.14 | isaacbw | oh wait, haha. I saw 1971 under the photo and thought that was the date the photo was taken... |
| 02:48.26 | ojwb | mathematician and socially awkward are fairly well correlated though |
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| 02:49.22 | censorydep | one might argue that the same could be said for computer programmers. although I think the correlation is diminishing over time. |
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| 02:54.05 | ojwb | yeah, computer programmers used to all be mathematicians - these days they let almost anyone in |
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| 02:56.05 | isaacbw | "they" |
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| 02:56.40 | Fafnirical | So, as a summary to the question I posed earlier: Google decided to be evil and set the required age for GSOC at 18, disregarding the fact that minors can be enrolled in a post-secondary education and can legally be employed and own copyright? |
| 02:57.33 | isaacbw | ... |
| 02:57.36 | brlcad | Fafnirical: age limits are imposed by US law, not exactly by Google |
| 02:57.37 | harshadura | for age below 18 thrs another event called Google Code-In ryt? |
| 02:57.41 | Catfish_Man | Fafnirical: for values of evil that really reduce the word to meaninglessness, yes :P |
| 02:57.49 | harshadura | so these ppl can attend that |
| 02:57.57 | censorydep | Fafnirical, I think that is likely a bit of an overstatement. And I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a very good reason. |
| 02:58.17 | isaacbw | expecting Google to go out of its way to take care of all the paperwork for employing minors in all 50 states is a bit ridiculous |
| 02:58.19 | isaacbw | and unfair |
| 02:58.22 | brlcad | the rules are considerably more difficult and painful when you're not yet 18 because you technically have no legal authority to work -- your parents own you ;) |
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| 02:59.11 | isaacbw | lots of states have laws allowing minors to work, but it is far more involved than 18+ |
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| 02:59.14 | Fafnirical | brlcad: US law permits minors age 16 and above to work and to own copyright, so I don't see the legal issues. Though the labor laws vary by state, most states allow 16-year-olds to work. |
| 02:59.32 | brlcad | Fafnirical: with parents permission |
| 02:59.33 | isaacbw | the trouble is that every state handles it differently |
| 02:59.41 | ojwb | Fafnirical: we aren't the people who decided this you know |
| 02:59.50 | Catfish_Man | isaacbw: state, country, etc... |
| 03:00.25 | isaacbw | Google is already paying loads of money to make gsoc possible without billing a legal team to let minors do it. Logistically it just doesn't make sense no matter how nice it would be |
| 03:00.37 | isaacbw | it's not evil |
| 03:00.40 | Fafnirical | ojwb: I'm not saying you are. |
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| 03:03.02 | Catfish_Man | bus stop approaching, later folks |
| 03:03.41 | brlcad | Fafnirical: the laws really do get quite astoundingly complex and vary considerably -- are you allowed to work more than 39.5 hours? are you taking breaks? parental consent? filed proper state permits? what state/country/city are you in? etc.. |
| 03:04.10 | brlcad | google is liable for all of those questions being answered in most states |
| 03:04.35 | brlcad | here's an example of the complexity for just washington state in the US: http://www.lni.wa.gov/ipub/700-022-000.pdf |
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| 03:04.51 | Fafnirical | brlcad: Okay. Sorry for taking it out on you guys. I suppose then it's an issue with labor laws. |
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| 03:05.44 | isaacbw | blame the founding fathers for letting states do things their own way |
| 03:06.06 | isaacbw | and don't vote for ron paul |
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| 03:07.20 | ojwb | he can't, he's not 18 yet... |
| 03:07.35 | censorydep | no no, his *friend* isn't 18... |
| 03:07.38 | Fafnirical | ojwb: I'm over 18. My friend isn't. |
| 03:07.51 | ojwb | ruin my joke why don't you |
| 03:08.10 | censorydep | reality: ruining jokes since the dawn 'o time... |
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| 03:19.12 | infinity0 | is it just me or does the proposal page not have a "give score" option? |
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| 03:22.11 | isaacbw | if you get accepted for multiple proposals do you get to choose which one you go with? |
| 03:22.26 | ojwb | isaacbw: maybe, but don't rely on it |
| 03:22.41 | ojwb | infinity0: maybe your org admin has disabled scoring currently? |
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| 03:35.10 | klocatelli | Does anyone know of a tool that asks a series of questions to help you narrow down which copyright license would be best for your needs? |
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| 05:43.22 | asanka_J | Hi, Anyone there?? |
| 05:44.24 | kblin | not me, certainly, or I would have replied |
| 05:45.29 | asanka_J | What we should provide for the "Home page url" in gsoc student registration form??? |
| 05:45.46 | kblin | your home page? |
| 05:45.50 | kblin | if you have one.. |
| 05:46.01 | kblin | I don't think it's a mandatory field |
| 05:46.10 | asanka_J | Yaa its not |
| 05:46.17 | kblin | so there you go |
| 05:46.36 | asanka_J | you mean if i have my own web site or something |
| 05:47.11 | kblin | right... that's what was the meaning of home page in the olden days |
| 05:48.03 | asanka_J | ;) okay, Thank you for the help |
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| 06:27.49 | jatin_105 | can i send more than 1 application to same organisation |
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| 06:35.30 | kblin | jatin_105: technically yes, but talk to the org first |
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| 07:28.32 | Applify | can the mentors see how many times ive edited the proposal? |
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| 07:33.14 | PioneerAxon | Hey, Can students, change the address of correspondence during the GSOC period? I might shift to new address during this summer. So, can I change it later on or should I use address of my relative. |
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| 07:33.22 | wakeupsid_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:33.39 | wakeupsid_ | sorry |
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| 07:48.24 | PioneerAxon | Is anyone from GSOC team around?? |
| 07:50.06 | kblin | PioneerAxon: you can change it later, but be aware that shipping some of the things might take a while, depending on where you are |
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| 07:55.06 | PioneerAxon | kblin: Okay. And will I receive any information about shipment of things, prior to it? I mean will we be notified prior to release of shipment? |
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| 07:57.09 | kblin | I think that's in the FAQ |
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| 07:58.49 | brunoais | I'm already registered to GSoC but I cannot go to the private group. Is there some delay between both? |
| 07:58.54 | brunoais | another thing |
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| 07:59.17 | brunoais | how does the document about the taxes is processed? I'm outside US |
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| 08:00.05 | kblin | brunoais: what private group? |
| 08:00.38 | brunoais | https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/google-summer-of-code-students-list |
| 08:00.44 | brunoais | I read it in the FAQ |
| 08:00.45 | kblin | brunoais: if you're outside the US, you need to provide proof of that to google and then pay taxes whereever you're living |
| 08:00.55 | PioneerAxon | kblin: Okay. And will I receive any information about shipment of things, prior to it? I mean will we be notified prior to release of shipment? |
| 08:00.57 | kblin | you only get on that list if you're accepted |
| 08:01.05 | brunoais | ok |
| 08:01.18 | kblin | PioneerAxon: as I said before, I think that's in the FAQ |
| 08:01.46 | brunoais | where is the info about the documents I should take care of and when should I take care of the documents? Acfter I'm accepted (if I'm accepted)? |
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| 08:02.03 | kblin | brunoais: I think that's in the faq |
| 08:02.09 | Applify | kblin: can the mentors see how many times ive edited my proposal? |
| 08:02.53 | kblin | PioneerAxon: you should get two shipments, iirc, one at the beginning if you're accepted, and one at the end if you passed |
| 08:03.26 | kblin | Applify: I get an email every time a student applying to any of my orgs changes their proposal |
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| 08:03.41 | Applify | o oh >.< |
| 08:03.59 | PioneerAxon | kblin: Okay, I think I might use address of one of my relative. Thanks a lot.. |
| 08:04.17 | Applify | I guess there shouldve been a preview button where we fill in our proposal |
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| 08:06.33 | kblin | Applify: it doesn't seem to show on the website, though |
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| 08:06.53 | brunoais | in the FAQ it appears I have to send those documents but does not show any details. It says that the details are in the googlegroups website |
| 08:07.12 | kblin | ah, then don't worry about it until you're accepted |
| 08:07.24 | brunoais | ok |
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| 08:07.29 | Applify | well, I just edited my proposal numerous times becuase of some small errors...im afraid i mustve spammed their inboxes in the process :( |
| 08:08.27 | kblin | brunoais: you need some sort of proof you're enrolled in a university and some document stating that you're not a US citizen and not living in the US, iirc |
| 08:08.29 | brunoais | ok, got it thank you |
| 08:08.38 | brunoais | I have it |
| 08:08.55 | kblin | Applify: don't worry about it too much |
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| 08:09.00 | brunoais | I have the same proof I used for another google program for students with disabilities |
| 08:09.36 | kblin | brunoais: not sure if it's the same, it will be provided by the time you need it |
| 08:09.46 | brunoais | ok |
| 08:09.53 | Applify | yea...i guess i dnt have much of an option. I'll make sure i dont edit it anymore... |
| 08:09.55 | brunoais | and I will be warned when I need it, right? |
| 08:10.11 | kblin | brunoais: sure |
| 08:10.19 | brunoais | good thank you |
| 08:10.39 | kblin | Applify: it's the mentor's choice to get email notifications on updates or not |
| 08:10.53 | Applify | oh ok |
| 08:11.28 | kblin | I'd rather get a bunch of unimportant emails that I can delete without reading than miss an important update, so I decided to receive those emails |
| 08:11.54 | kblin | and I think I get those for all students because I'm an admin, not sure |
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| 08:12.24 | Applify | hmm |
| 08:12.38 | Applify | I havent received any comments yet though...impatiently waiting |
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| 08:16.39 | kblin | Applify: mentors are humans with a real life, too :) |
| 08:16.49 | Applify | hehe, yes :) |
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| 08:18.40 | zhulikas | I didn't had time to apply yet :( |
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| 08:18.48 | harshadura | hi |
| 08:19.01 | zhulikas | application submission is until 6th of April, right? |
| 08:19.30 | harshadura | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:20.04 | mlankhorst | hey |
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| 10:14.33 | ardahal | !timeline |
| 10:14.34 | gsocbot | ardahal: "timeline" is http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2012 |
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| 10:14.46 | ardahal | !next |
| 10:14.48 | gsocbot | ardahal: "next" is Apr 6 19:00 UTC - Student application deadline. |
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| 10:27.11 | ardahal | melange is returning error messages whenever i try to access my propsal |
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| 10:43.49 | _hsr | is it possible for two students to work on a single project? |
| 10:43.59 | maccy | , |
| 10:44.11 | harshadura | nope _hsr |
| 10:44.14 | kurbel | _hsr: no it is not |
| 10:44.48 | _hsr | damn, I got competition now :p |
| 10:44.49 | ajedwards | what if they have multiple personality disorder? |
| 10:44.52 | ajedwards | ;) |
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| 10:45.23 | _hsr | ajedwards, double the money and two t-shirts |
| 10:45.27 | _hsr | -_- |
| 10:45.30 | ajedwards | winnerrr ding ding ding |
| 10:45.52 | ajedwards | the t-shirt is _clearly_ the whole point of gsoc anyway |
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| 10:46.48 | kurbel | _hsr: at least not as a group as far as i can remember |
| 10:47.05 | MatthewWilkes | _hsr: It is possible for a single project idea to get two excellent applications and therefore the mentor organisation works with the two students to expand the proposal and split it into two chunks though |
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| 10:47.21 | MatthewWilkes | http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/faqs#two_students_one_project |
| 10:48.00 | MatthewWilkes | _hsr: Plone has done that in the past and had good success, but it's not possible with every project idea as the mentors need to be satisfied that if one student screws up or disappears it won't cause the other to fail |
| 10:48.16 | MatthewWilkes | so it's easier to try and avoid that situation if possible |
| 10:48.20 | MatthewWilkes | aww |
| 10:48.24 | MatthewWilkes | ah :) |
| 10:48.26 | _hsr | :) |
| 10:49.16 | _hsr | the situation I am now in seems a bit funny |
| 10:49.32 | MatthewWilkes | oh? |
| 10:49.39 | _hsr | afaik, all the students in my org are going after the same project |
| 10:49.49 | _hsr | including me |
| 10:50.27 | MatthewWilkes | _hsr: What is it, the cookie tasting project or something? |
| 10:50.58 | MatthewWilkes | I'd recommend you submit a second proposal for another idea if you have another one you'd like to do, if the competition is that stiff |
| 10:51.01 | _hsr | I wish :p |
| 10:51.18 | _hsr | hmm |
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| 10:51.55 | _hsr | but the current one, I've been involved too much |
| 10:52.33 | _hsr | I do have some backup Ideas, but as always, they are backups :) |
| 10:52.36 | ajedwards | if i were you i'd discuss your concerns with the organisation, if they feel it may be to your advantage then you could submit a second application... |
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| 10:56.40 | _hsr | I mean, I don't want to look needy or threatening :p |
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| 10:58.17 | MatthewWilkes | _hsr: I think it's legitimate to discuss it with them, it's not needy to say "I'm aware there is a lot of interest in this project, and in the event that you selected someone else I'd still like to work with you, if I submit a second idea will it reduce my chances of getting my first preference?" |
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| 10:59.25 | _hsr | hmm |
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| 11:11.25 | dadkins | _hsr: it sounds like you are doing all the right things...if you do submit a second proposal for a different project, i would recommend making it clear which proposal is your first choice and which is your second choice just so there is no confusion |
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| 11:12.19 | _hsr | yeah, I'll do that |
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| 11:38.56 | baltixz | good day every body.. do you have any info or any proper documentation on how to upgrade liferay portal 6.0.6 to 6.1 successfully? |
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| 11:39.21 | Zeouterlimits | Good afternoon :-) |
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| 11:39.40 | |Kev| | baltixz: I don't think this is the channel you're looking for. |
| 11:39.57 | |Kev| | Zeouterlimits: Good afternoon. |
| 11:40.24 | baltixz | tnx kev |
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| 12:17.37 | andrei__ | Hi. How are the applications going? :) |
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| 12:47.52 | namelivia | Hello everyone! |
| 12:48.02 | namelivia | I have a general question about GSoC |
| 12:48.49 | namelivia | I've seen there are lot of applications for most of proposals so |
| 12:49.06 | namelivia | is better to start focusing on one and start thinking on solutions for that problem |
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| 12:49.22 | namelivia | or select 20 tasks and wait to be selected for one? |
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| 12:50.26 | tomprince | namelivia: Something between the two, probably. |
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| 12:51.31 | tomprince | The ususual suggetion is to pick 2 or 3 ideas, and start discussing them with the relevant organizations. (And doing any qualifying tasks, etc) |
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| 13:00.05 | namelivia | ok, thanks for the reply, that's what I'm going to do |
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| 13:09.01 | d34th4ck3r | how can we view proposals which are made public? |
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| 13:11.07 | gevaerts | d34th4ck3r: "public" means you can view them without being the author or a mentor of the organisation involved. It does not meant they're indexed somewhere |
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| 13:13.36 | MatthewWilkes | Yeah, you need to have been given the URL |
| 13:14.08 | gevaerts | Or guess it :) |
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| 13:17.50 | d34th4ck3r | oh. |
| 13:17.58 | d34th4ck3r | Thanks. |
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| 13:23.08 | atanu | Hii |
| 13:23.15 | atanu | @admins |
| 13:23.23 | atanu | I have 1 doubt can I ask |
| 13:23.23 | atanu | ? |
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| 13:24.14 | tomprince | atanu: If you have a question, just ask it. |
| 13:24.15 | atanu | Ok anyone here |
| 13:24.22 | atanu | to answer my query |
| 13:24.26 | atanu | Please reply |
| 13:24.33 | tomprince | I'm not here. |
| 13:24.36 | |Kev| | You've used five lines of text (now six) (now seven) and gotten nothing said. Try asking your question. |
| 13:25.12 | atanu | Thanks a lot--- |
| 13:25.15 | atanu | Actually |
| 13:25.21 | atanu | I am interning this summer |
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| 13:25.29 | atanu | along with that can i do gsoc also? |
| 13:25.59 | |Kev| | Probably not - GSoC's pretty much a full time job - so unless you're interning part-time it's very unlikely you'd have time to do both. |
| 13:26.05 | atanu | As should i devote all my time and concentration to gsoc if i get accepted or i can manage both? |
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| 13:26.33 | atanu | My intern is mon-fri 8hrs a day |
| 13:27.00 | MatthewWilkes | atanu: GSoC is about 8 hours a day, too. You won't have time to do both adequately. |
| 13:27.51 | atanu | Ok thanks..but if i apply and get accepted can i quit later? |
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| 13:28.11 | MatthewWilkes | atanu: You could quit your internship, yeah |
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| 13:28.22 | MatthewWilkes | but it's stupid idea |
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| 13:28.40 | olasd | this is very wasteful for the mentor(s) and the mentoring org |
| 13:28.52 | atanu | No i mean can i quit gsoc? |
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| 13:29.02 | olasd | as the time they spend on you could be used for a student that actually _can_ complete the program |
| 13:29.12 | MatthewWilkes | atanu: Sure, just write at the top of your application "I don't have time to do this project and intend to quit and waste your time" |
| 13:29.25 | downey | :) |
| 13:29.26 | ajedwards | *facepalm* |
| 13:29.41 | ajedwards | some students actually want to do their projects, believe it or not... |
| 13:29.55 | MatthewWilkes | atanu: Don't waste anyone's time by applying |
| 13:30.02 | atanu | anyways thanks a lot to all |
| 13:30.26 | atanu | yeah i will not apply as the only time i can devote to gsco is satuday and sunday |
| 13:31.09 | MatthewWilkes | atanu: Yeah, that wouldn't be enough, maybe next year |
| 13:31.18 | olasd | (and nights... come to think of it, that's 5*16 + 2*24 hours a week) |
| 13:31.33 | ajedwards | you don't sleep eat or poop? |
| 13:31.42 | flaushy_ | right, sleep is the course i take next term ;) |
| 13:31.59 | MatthewWilkes | Very few people can write quality code 16 hours a day |
| 13:32.06 | atanu | thank you everyone got clarified that gsoc is a FULL time job |
| 13:32.11 | atanu | next year i will apply |
| 13:32.22 | olasd | IV coffee + glucose? |
| 13:32.24 | olasd | :> |
| 13:32.30 | ajedwards | we'll be waiting eagerly on the edge of our seats... |
| 13:32.41 | MatthewWilkes | Most people I know that have flexible work schedules get about 5 or 6 quality hours of coding a day |
| 13:33.04 | ajedwards | possibly less in summer if the weather is good |
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| 13:33.23 | MatthewWilkes | ajedwards: I just got in from sitting in the park in the sunshine |
| 13:33.27 | MatthewWilkes | I really wish I wasn't working today |
| 13:33.38 | gevaerts | isn't working today :) |
| 13:33.50 | olasd | should be working today :o |
| 13:34.00 | ajedwards | likewise... i'm writing a java application while listening to the birds outside - i have cider in the fridge and the makings of a bbq too... it's torture! |
| 13:35.43 | MatthewWilkes | ajedwards: Where abouts are you based? |
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| 13:36.03 | ajedwards | Lichfield |
| 13:36.36 | MatthewWilkes | There's no cider in the midlands! |
| 13:37.00 | gevaerts | Not for much longer, anyway :) |
| 13:37.01 | ajedwards | ofcourse there is... but maybe not for long if these fuel prices keep rocketing |
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| 13:38.27 | MatthewWilkes | This is perfect tractor fuel weather |
| 13:38.37 | MatthewWilkes | a nice, strong scrimpy with a ginger beer top |
| 13:38.41 | MatthewWilkes | scrumpy |
| 13:38.44 | MatthewWilkes | I hate autocorrect |
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| 13:41.38 | ajedwards | well the closest i'll get to cider for a couple of hours is probably this apple |
| 13:42.00 | ajedwards | that's a depressing thought |
| 13:43.01 | gevaerts | At least you won't be bothered by doctors today then |
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| 13:58.11 | buffyg | re: previous conversation about the day outside. I'm in Brighton and having trouble sticking around in front of the keyboard. The waterfront calls. |
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| 14:00.46 | namelivia | I made a superlist of projects I like, and finally I'm applying for others instead u_________u |
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| 14:01.58 | Razinov_ | Hello, it is offtopic, I do my university task. But there are a lot of programmers. I have a question. Hello. I am writing universal C++ class for optimization of variables. I have 2 types of variables: structures and simple variables (float/int). I want to name class, which represents simple variables, as RAbstractNumericVariables. But I am unsure. What do you think? |
| 14:02.31 | JordiGH | !gsoc |
| 14:02.31 | gsocbot | JordiGH: "gsoc" is Google Summer of Code, not Generic Savoir-faire on Open-source Conundrums |
| 14:02.49 | JordiGH | Razinov_: Ask in ##c++ or ##c++-basic |
| 14:03.07 | Razinov_ | thanks |
| 14:03.47 | JordiGH | ##c++ is a bit hostile sometimes, so if you don't get help there, go to ##c++-basic. |
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| 14:06.31 | namelivia | I'm surprised by the fact that many of the students seem to have very specific knowledge about very specific languages or software. Don't you? |
| 14:06.51 | JordiGH | namelivia: No, I think it's duckling syndrome. |
| 14:07.04 | kodaws | i guess that flexibily among languages comes with time and experience |
| 14:07.04 | JordiGH | namelivia: For a long time, I also thought that I was a one-language kind of hacker. |
| 14:07.29 | JordiGH | I still know C++ better than any other language, sadly. |
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| 14:08.01 | JordiGH | Well, not true, I guess I know Octave better than C++ nowadays, but it's a very niche language, not suitable for general programming. |
| 14:09.10 | namelivia | I haven't programmed in the same language for more than a year I think |
| 14:09.26 | namelivia | bosses demand |
| 14:09.35 | JordiGH | What about when you were a kid? |
| 14:09.50 | JordiGH | All I knew as a kid was BASIC. And later some i386 assembly. |
| 14:10.38 | namelivia | As I kid I only knew DIV, it was a game programming language haha |
| 14:10.47 | namelivia | I started programming seriously at university |
| 14:10.50 | Razinov_ | In Russia most schoolboys learn Pascal. |
| 14:10.59 | JordiGH | Oh, hm, I guess I also knew Logo, but I didn't realise it was a programming language. |
| 14:11.08 | JordiGH | Razinov_: Is that still true? |
| 14:11.09 | |Kev| | FORWARD 90 |
| 14:11.25 | Razinov_ | JordiGH: Logo was my first programming language) |
| 14:11.40 | kodaws | LOGO ftw! |
| 14:11.42 | Razinov_ | JordiGH: Yes, it is true. |
| 14:11.55 | JordiGH | Interesting. Is Pascal translate to Russian? I know there's a French version. |
| 14:12.14 | Razinov_ | JordiGH: No |
| 14:12.34 | Razinov_ | But LOGO was. |
| 14:12.46 | JordiGH | Классно! |
| 14:12.46 | marchael | Razinov_: is that really? I'm from Russia and in my school schoolers learn only MS Word, Paint and other related crap |
| 14:13.19 | namelivia | In Spain in university they also learn basic programming using Pascal |
| 14:13.29 | kblin | pascal in french? |
| 14:13.38 | Razinov_ | marchael: I mean that Pascal is most popular language in school |
| 14:13.51 | kblin | "si (i < 5) alors ...." |
| 14:13.55 | JordiGH | kblin: Yeah. Like that. |
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| 14:16.16 | marchael | may be, I study pascal and basic at my own :P |
| 14:16.43 | kodaws | pascal is quite popular in russia, isn't it? |
| 14:17.01 | Razinov_ | yes |
| 14:17.28 | kblin | apart from having funny ideas about where arrays start counting, pascal is pretty reasonable.. you could do way worse, imho |
| 14:17.38 | kblin | *cough*VB*cough* |
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| 14:18.04 | JordiGH | 1-based arrays make a lot of sense for numerical computing. |
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| 14:18.18 | |Kev| | They make a lot of sense for everything. |
| 14:18.19 | gevaerts | Everyone knows arrays should be 1/2-based! |
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| 14:32.50 | pokoko222 | how do you send more pull requests to github at once? |
| 14:33.07 | pokoko222 | you make a commit, pull a request... and then make another commit and pull again? |
| 14:33.27 | pokoko222 | I have some algorithms I need to break in more pull requests so... |
| 14:33.31 | edsiper | pokoko222, you just pull when you want to update your local copy |
| 14:33.44 | JordiGH | Oh, you're making pull requests to yourself? |
| 14:33.57 | pokoko222 | no no pull request to the original repo |
| 14:34.03 | edsiper | pokoko222, if you are the only one developer you dont need to pull |
| 14:34.12 | edsiper | push ? |
| 14:34.23 | pokoko222 | no I send pull requests to be considered to be merged on the original project |
| 14:34.57 | pokoko222 | I was told to separate my code in more so that it is easier to review |
| 14:35.01 | tomprince | !gsoc | pokoko222 |
| 14:35.01 | gsocbot | pokoko222: "gsoc" is Google Summer of Code, not Generic Savoir-faire on Open-source Conundrums |
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| 14:35.14 | JordiGH | pokoko222: #git might be helpful with github. |
| 14:35.21 | pokoko222 | oki doki |
| 14:35.21 | ChrisOelmueller | or #github. |
| 14:35.31 | pokoko222 | ok sorry guys |
| 14:36.41 | buffyg | In an effort to inspire students, I have drafted the following: https://www.illumos.org/projects/illumos-gate/wiki/How_to_write_an_excellent_GSoC_proposal |
| 14:36.53 | buffyg | Have other orgs provided students with similar guidance? |
| 14:37.24 | pokoko222 | buffyg: i would not complicate things that much |
| 14:37.40 | pokoko222 | i think the cruical thing is that they like what you coded before the application |
| 14:37.46 | pokoko222 | the application is just formality i think |
| 14:37.52 | buffyg | Ummm, no. |
| 14:38.06 | ChrisOelmueller | that's not true, definitely |
| 14:38.12 | kblin | buffyg: oh, you're with illumos? nice :) |
| 14:38.16 | pokoko222 | well the final word is on the mentor so... |
| 14:38.20 | pokoko222 | google is just intermediary |
| 14:38.32 | gevaerts | Who do you think looks at the application? |
| 14:38.44 | ChrisOelmueller | you don't write the proposal for google to review it. |
| 14:38.47 | buffyg | Write, and I'm the org admin who has to coordinate application review. |
| 14:38.52 | buffyg | er, Right... |
| 14:38.55 | |Kev| | pokoko222: The final word is with Google. |
| 14:39.03 | pokoko222 | |Kev|: how is that so |
| 14:39.11 | gevaerts | I can almost guarantee that if you treat the application as purely a formality, you can try again next year |
| 14:39.12 | |Kev| | They just don't veto the admin's choices. |
| 14:39.18 | |Kev| | (OR not that I'm aware of) |
| 14:39.29 | |Kev| | pokoko222: It's Google's program, they can reject anyone they like. |
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| 14:40.02 | buffyg | Anyway, I'm trying to encourage students to get a strong start with applications, so this is my attempt to encourage. |
| 14:40.09 | ChrisOelmueller | why would i accept a proposal that does not show the applicant has a clear plan what's supposed to happen, nor defines milestones for the project? |
| 14:40.18 | |Kev| | buffyg: I Don't have time to read it, but such a document seems sensible. |
| 14:40.31 | pokoko222 | no no I will respect the application and make it good, I just say, it is the mentor that has the final word... if he does not like what you coded before the application ... you can have the greatest app proposal saying you will do great things but it wont work |
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| 14:41.12 | buffyg | pokoko222: I don't know why you're trying to tell people who run the process how it's supposed to work. |
| 14:41.30 | gevaerts | pokoko222: true, but if you show great code and then submit an application saying "I'll do stuff, we'll figure out what it will be later", you're out even faster |
| 14:41.32 | |Kev| | pokoko222: The mentors don't have very much say at all, in fact. |
| 14:41.43 | pokoko222 | gevaerts: i never said that |
| 14:41.44 | |Kev| | pokoko222: It's the org admins who decide who to hand the slots to. |
| 14:41.44 | ChrisOelmueller | that sounds like a valid assessment :) |
| 14:41.55 | pokoko222 | i just said "code before application" has greatest priority |
| 14:41.58 | |Kev| | pokoko222: And they take advice from the mentors. |
| 14:42.38 | buffyg | As per my page: "Assertions are only for debugging." |
| 14:42.48 | pokoko222 | |Kev|: well by mentor I meant org admin too, a guy from the org, not from google |
| 14:43.00 | gevaerts | buffyg: are you trying to debug this discussion? :) |
| 14:43.11 | |Kev| | gevaerts: SIGSEGV. |
| 14:43.14 | buffyg | It definitely has bugs that are being mistaken for features. |
| 14:43.26 | pokoko222 | how can google know what is best for the project, someone from the org has the final word... |
| 14:43.39 | vytas | Hi, is there a limit how many projects an organization can do while still being sponsored? |
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| 14:43.41 | ChrisOelmueller | pokoko222: no way we are going to accept somebody who just provided code and did not show incentive to work with the community otherwise |
| 14:44.00 | |Kev| | buffyg: In answer to the original question - yes, directly or indirectly. Last year some mentor/admins ran a series of blog posts about this, for example. |
| 14:44.16 | |Kev| | buffyg: http://google-opensource.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/dos-and-donts-of-google-summer-of-code.html |
| 14:44.26 | buffyg | |Kev|: Brilliant, thanks. |
| 14:44.47 | JordiGH | This is kind of hilarious. The Melange guys are refusing to fix something because I submitted a patch: http://code.google.com/p/soc/issues/detail?id=1477 |
| 14:44.49 | pokoko222 | ChrisOelmueller: well of course, but but I will say again... code code code before before before app app app and you win win win :D |
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| 14:45.01 | ChrisOelmueller | you don't. |
| 14:45.20 | pokoko222 | lets say you have 2000 lines of code accepted and merged before the app |
| 14:45.28 | pokoko222 | how can a guy with a patch of 20 lines beat you |
| 14:45.33 | ChrisOelmueller | i still prefer the student who did the same in 20 lines |
| 14:45.36 | ChrisOelmueller | by far. |
| 14:45.44 | pokoko222 | reason is? |
| 14:45.53 | |Kev| | pokoko222: I'm afraid on this matter you're simply not right in the general case. |
| 14:46.01 | buffyg | pokoko222: When an org admin is writing a set of guidelines about how to write a solid application, that's a pretty solid signal of expectations used to evaluate proposals. I don't know why you're arguing the toss here. |
| 14:46.38 | pokoko222 | ChrisOelmueller: reason is? :) |
| 14:46.44 | pokoko222 | sounds like you are joking |
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| 14:47.24 | ChrisOelmueller | oh i didn't realize you were serious when referring to #LOC as code quality measurement, sorry |
| 14:47.44 | |Kev| | pokoko222: (large) SLoC counts have been accepted as a bad measure of progress for many many years. |
| 14:48.03 | |Kev| | I would take this as an opportunity to learn from the orgs and not argue about this. |
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| 14:48.13 | pokoko222 | ok then, 2000 good lines of code vs 20 good lines of code |
| 14:48.18 | MatthewWilkes | Negative delta #LOC is a great measure though ;) |
| 14:48.34 | gevaerts | True. Remove 2000 lines and we're talking :) |
| 14:48.42 | MatthewWilkes | pokoko222: Code is a liability, not an asset, 2000 lines that won't be well maintained is a bad thing |
| 14:48.52 | MatthewWilkes | for example, a feature that isn't widely used |
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| 14:49.08 | buffyg | Or a feature without a clear use case. |
| 14:49.19 | kblin | buffyg: I thought assertions wer for making your program blow up with the loudest noise possible when the world isn't as the program expects? |
| 14:49.26 | pokoko222 | all I said is this: "If the org likes your code the most before the app, you win" |
| 14:49.28 | pokoko222 | simple |
| 14:49.40 | gevaerts | pokoko222: and all we're saying is "no" |
| 14:49.42 | pokoko222 | the conversation went in other directions |
| 14:49.50 | pokoko222 | gevaerts: but how :) |
| 14:50.05 | gevaerts | There are many other considerations at least as important as code |
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| 14:50.11 | pokoko222 | such as? |
| 14:50.20 | buffyg | kblin: Yes, as currently in evidence. ;-> |
| 14:50.50 | gevaerts | Such as communication skills, ability to find out stuff on your own, being able to plan 12 weeks worth of work in advance,... |
| 14:51.11 | pokoko222 | gevaerts: that is a joke if you did the main thing right, the code sweet code before the app |
| 14:51.12 | kblin | |Kev|: Wait, wait.. measuring programming projects in lines of code is useful.. just as useful as measuring your airplane building project progress in weight in tonnes |
| 14:51.44 | ChrisOelmueller | i'd suggest you do not turn down anything that we state from experience as a joke |
| 14:51.45 | buffyg | pokoko222: You've got a fixation others don't share. |
| 14:51.54 | ChrisOelmueller | just because it's not matching what you hope gsoc is |
| 14:52.17 | pokoko222 | ChrisOelmueller: I have highest respect for you guys, I am just arguing to learn here |
| 14:52.23 | kblin | |Kev|: the idea being that this is a number you want to keep as small as possible, because you'll end up paying for it later down the road |
| 14:52.24 | pokoko222 | not to pretend to know more than you... |
| 14:52.26 | MatthewWilkes | indeed, we've failed people that are producing working code because their communication was consistently poor |
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| 14:52.36 | buffyg | There is an IT archetype, the cowboy, who can crank out unmaintainable code like nobodies business. |
| 14:52.41 | |Kev| | kblin: Read what I said very carefully - I covered that :) |
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| 14:52.49 | pokoko222 | well yes I agree communication is a must too |
| 14:52.55 | downey | communication >> code imho |
| 14:52.57 | MatthewWilkes | buffyg: And lives in a cave, charges £1000 an hour consultancy |
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| 14:53.06 | MatthewWilkes | more man now than machine |
| 14:53.07 | |Kev| | kblin: In as much as I only made an assertion about large SLoC counting :) |
| 14:53.11 | MatthewWilkes | machine than man |
| 14:53.14 | MatthewWilkes | jesus, i need a nap |
| 14:53.28 | kblin | |Kev|: you said it's a bad measure, I'd argue it's a good measure, just a number you want to keep low :) |
| 14:53.54 | |Kev| | 15:51 < pokoko222> gevaerts: that is a joke if you did the main thing right, the code sweet code before the app |
| 14:54.05 | buffyg | The cowboy appears very productive until you start worrying about teamwork and long-term maintainability. Then you realize that your cowboy has been ultra-productive in screwing your project. |
| 14:54.09 | |Kev| | pokoko222: This is, incidentally, failing at one of the things that's more important than code. |
| 14:54.23 | pokoko222 | |Kev|: which is |
| 14:54.31 | downey | "must play well with others" |
| 14:55.07 | pokoko222 | daaah |
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| 14:55.37 | |Kev| | pokoko222: Not claiming to know better than the people you're trying to learn from. |
| 14:55.50 | pokoko222 | |Kev|: I explicitly said I was not trying that :) |
| 14:56.12 | buffyg | Cowboys look like stars for a while, but they invariably have landings like meteor strikes. |
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| 14:57.03 | pokoko222 | anyways i am back to coding |
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| 14:57.16 | pokoko222 | thanks for the conversation guys ;) |
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| 14:57.29 | gevaerts | thinks this is going to be a useful experiment :) |
| 14:57.48 | buffyg | No doubt. |
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| 14:58.28 | flaushy_ | do you have a nice compilation somewhere about this roles like cowboys? |
| 14:58.49 | aashrith | hi |
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| 14:59.58 | buffyg | flaushy_: Only when someone's buying drinks. ;-> That's the usual setting for war stories. |
| 15:00.00 | |Kev| | buffyg: For what it's worth, I think cowboy coding has it's place - just typically not near anyone else :) |
| 15:00.09 | |Kev| | Urgh. |
| 15:00.12 | |Kev| | s/it's/its/ |
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| 15:00.30 | downey | |Kev|: works real well for a project team of 1. :) |
| 15:00.47 | gevaerts | |Kev|: you need them to provide light at night when they crash :) |
| 15:00.49 | |Kev| | Not even then, necessarily :) |
| 15:00.52 | flaushy_ | buffyg: okie. I heard stories like that in lectures and failed (back then) to ask whether there a nice compilations :) |
| 15:00.58 | buffyg | Until you start recruiting. "What do you mean there's no issue tracker?" etc. |
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| 15:01.37 | sfb | Man. I was really hoping to get some people interested in my Blender plugin idea. |
| 15:01.57 | sfb | I suppose I still have one more week for students to flow in. |
| 15:02.01 | MatthewWilkes | buffyg: someone's buying drinks? |
| 15:02.05 | MatthewWilkes | who? |
| 15:02.08 | MatthewWilkes | where? |
| 15:02.10 | |Kev| | I'll have a water please. |
| 15:02.22 | |Kev| | Actually, right now in this heat, I'd like a nice cold lemonade and lime. |
| 15:02.31 | MatthewWilkes | I've got through a whole bottle of robinsons's concentrated barley water today |
| 15:03.00 | MatthewWilkes | flaushy_: Do you read the daily wtf? |
| 15:03.02 | MatthewWilkes | That has a few |
| 15:03.29 | buffyg | This brings me back to the first year org thing, actually. As I've realized there are a bunch of us in the UK, what about doing a meetup in April to talk shop, kind of a mini-summit with a view to sharing secrets with first-year orgs? |
| 15:03.42 | flaushy_ | MatthewWilkes: right :) Thx for reminding me to catch up on |
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| 15:04.29 | |Kev| | buffyg: I'm not a first-year org, but I would at least think about trying to attend if it was somewhere easy for me to get to. |
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| 15:06.31 | buffyg | |Kev|: I'd like to talk to older orgs just as much as first-year orgs (we're second-year). What's the right kind of central location? London? Brom? |
| 15:07.22 | |Kev| | buffyg: I'm South Wales, working remotely for a company in greater London. So Londonish is the best chance for me. |
| 15:08.11 | MatthewWilkes | I'm about to start working on a new project split between Brum and London, so either's fine with me |
| 15:08.11 | buffyg | Ok. I'm in Brighton, so London's pretty appealing. I'll mail the mentors list, see what the interest in like. |
| 15:08.15 | |Kev| | Although I guess Brum's actually, closer, just less likely for me to be able to easily arrange a trip there. |
| 15:08.28 | buffyg | er, is like |
| 15:08.38 | MatthewWilkes | More Brummies, fewer Londoners. It's hard to tell if that's a good or bad thing. |
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| 15:14.33 | |Kev| | buffyg / MatthewWilkes: Of course, if it just ends up being a handful of us, I know a great curry place near me... |
| 15:14.50 | MatthewWilkes | |Kev|: Did I ask where you are? |
| 15:14.57 | MatthewWilkes | South Wales could be good or bad |
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| 15:15.23 | MatthewWilkes | Just don't say Cwmbrân |
| 15:16.21 | |Kev| | Bridgend. |
| 15:16.29 | |Kev| | Pretty much midway Cardiff to Swansea, and just off the M4. |
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| 15:19.47 | MatthewWilkes | |Kev|: I wouldn't be opposed to Caerdydd in principle |
| 15:20.07 | |Kev| | That works for me, obviously. |
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| 15:21.23 | MatthewWilkes | I guess we can't tempt spectie by going to gymru? |
| 15:21.38 | spectie | hi! |
| 15:21.55 | spectie | i ahve no time for the next forever ;( |
| 15:23.22 | |Kev| | That's ok, we're not asking you for forever. |
| 15:23.29 | |Kev| | Just a short while :) |
| 15:23.38 | strohel | Hi, is it just me or the Google melange site (once logged in) is slow as hell for everybody? |
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| 15:25.03 | MatthewWilkes | spectie: We'd buy you a rarebit |
| 15:25.05 | |Kev| | strohel: It certainly has periods where it's quite slow |
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| 15:25.28 | spectie | haha |
| 15:25.47 | strohel | |Kev|: I cannot even log in right now, it takes ages. :-| |
| 15:26.37 | spectie | mathieui, |
| 15:26.42 | spectie | two weekends form now woul be when? |
| 15:26.49 | boirea | heya, I'd like to get started coding something but I don't think I've got enough knowledge to hop into a project, is there anything you could recommend to me? i have some low/decent knowledge of java :) |
| 15:26.52 | spectie | weekend of the 7th or of the 14? |
| 15:27.07 | mathieui | spectie: ^W MatthewWilkes |
| 15:27.13 | spectie | yeah |
| 15:27.14 | spectie | ;D |
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| 15:28.00 | |Kev| | boirea: I'd find an org you're interested in working with, and ask theme. |
| 15:28.13 | |Kev| | They'll probably set you up with some simple tasks you could bash at. |
| 15:28.25 | MatthewWilkes | spectie: Hm? Easter weekend? |
| 15:28.48 | spectie | i'm going to be in the uk from the 1st-7th |
| 15:28.49 | boirea | that would be awesome |
| 15:28.53 | spectie | but superbusy:( |
| 15:28.55 | vytas | boirea, basically what |Kev| said, I would recommend you to search for udacity coursera and mitx |
| 15:29.27 | boirea | ill search for it, thanks :) |
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| 15:34.47 | namelivia | Very stupid question, to apply for an existing idea you have to fill the submit proposal form, right? |
| 15:34.54 | |Kev| | Correct. |
| 15:35.01 | buffyg | Off-topic but nevetheless relevant, I'll assert: Does Google+ allow IRC handles to be visible for purposes of introduction? |
| 15:35.06 | namelivia | ok, thanks |
| 15:36.13 | buffyg | I find that there are people I probably know on IRC (for example, here) who send G+ invites, but I don't recognize the name they use in meatspace or social network profiles. |
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| 15:37.08 | |Kev| | I don't know the real names of most people in here. |
| 15:37.20 | |Kev| | I'm not even sure if carols is who she says she is :) |
| 15:37.35 | buffyg | ;-> |
| 15:37.40 | summatusmentis | buffyg: I think G+ gives you the ability to list a nickname |
| 15:38.26 | MatthewWilkes | is a cipher |
| 15:38.46 | |Kev| | Speaking of which, the Stanford Crypto course turns out to be rather fun :) |
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| 15:44.45 | NUS_Wu_Biao | I have a silly question. Any one can tell me whether the irc username is just the nick name i'm using now? |
| 15:45.03 | |Kev| | IRC doesn't have usernames. |
| 15:45.15 | |Kev| | Only nicknames. |
| 15:45.15 | mlankhorst | nicks :D |
| 15:45.26 | cr4zyb0y | NUS_Wu_Biao, reg your nickname |
| 15:45.48 | NUS_Wu_Biao | how to reg my nickname? |
| 15:46.01 | NUS_Wu_Biao | oh |
| 15:46.03 | mlankhorst | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:46.05 | NUS_Wu_Biao | got it tkx |
| 15:46.06 | cr4zyb0y | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:47.23 | vytas | |Kev|, what do you mean by saying Crypto class is rather fun ? I am doing this course and it is pretty good (= |
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| 15:48.25 | |Kev| | You're complaining that I said 'rather fun' instead of 'pretty good'? |
| 15:48.48 | vytas | I am not native english speaker, so I could get it wrongly ;) |
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| 15:49.28 | vytas | its initial thoughts was to name it "introduction to Cryptography". that's why i catch rather fun in different context |
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| 16:06.28 | MatthewWilkes | vytas: Are you maybe mixing up fun and funny? |
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| 16:07.07 | vytas | MatthewWilkes, I am not (: |
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| 16:08.36 | _hsr | so (:) < this is syamese twins smiling then d:p |
| 16:08.48 | vytas | its fun that you asked, but it is not funny -> did you ever heard man telling sarcasm ? |
| 16:09.02 | vytas | it is getting way off topic [= |
| 16:09.04 | MatthewWilkes | _hsr: ……… ? |
| 16:09.08 | _hsr | nvm |
| 16:09.16 | _hsr | sleep deprived |
| 16:09.19 | _hsr | ._. |
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| 16:30.15 | JordiGH | It's not kosher to discuss proposals publicly yet, is it? Or ever? |
| 16:30.38 | JordiGH | A student did a pretty cool proposal in LaTeX, but when copying it over to Melange, the formatting got messed up. |
| 16:30.51 | JordiGH | So he sent me a copy to my email instead, and I want to upload this copy elsewhere. |
| 16:31.09 | JordiGH | I'm pretty sure the student wouldn't mind having this publicly discussed (I'm about to ask him) but does Google mind? |
| 16:31.10 | |Kev| | It's Kosher if the student's happy with it. |
| 16:31.26 | |Kev| | As far as I know the student can do whatever he or she wants with their application. |
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| 16:34.12 | guifre | I also wrote in latex my proposal, is there any way to just upload the pdf? |
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| 16:37.45 | yeswanth | guifre, i believe you can submit your proposal in html format. why dont you use a latex to html converter? |
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| 16:40.31 | JordiGH | yeswanth: I think that's precisely what got messed up with my student. |
| 16:41.08 | guifre | yeswanth, have you tried to convert a IEEEtran article to html? you would know why I don't |
| 16:42.03 | JordiGH | What's used for converting LaTeX to HTML nowadays? |
| 16:42.44 | yeswanth | not very familiar with latex . i wrote my last year proposal in rst format and used a html converter and it worked fine. |
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| 16:43.08 | yeswanth | guess latex is far more advanced. |
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| 16:43.49 | |Kev| | Latex is great for writing maths documents with, and should be left well alone for everything else :) |
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| 16:45.37 | KirarinSnow-cake | I use LaTeX for everything |
| 16:45.42 | _hsr | does solving rubik's cube in less than a minute give you any advantage in getting selected |
| 16:46.00 | |Kev| | _hsr: Only that it gives you more time to work on your application. |
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| 16:46.14 | |Kev| | KirarinSnow-cake: I used to, then I recovered :) |
| 16:46.23 | _hsr | ah clever ;) |
| 16:46.35 | yeswanth | |Kev|, what do you use now? |
| 16:46.46 | |Kev| | yeswanth: Docbook |
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| 16:47.26 | yeswanth | probably , gsoc site should support submitting an application with other formats ( project proposal, anyone ;) ) |
| 16:47.28 | |Kev| | I used LaTeX for my thesis, and that may well have been a good choice. When we wrote a book, we did that in Docbook and it's much much nicer for texty stuff. |
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| 16:47.52 | kblin | wonders what's wrong with plain text for the gsoc application |
| 16:48.01 | |Kev| | kblin: No idea. |
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| 16:48.47 | kblin | |Kev|: dunno, I used to help write the mutt user's manual in docbook, and that was really annoying.. but that might just be my dislike for html-like markup languages |
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| 16:53.42 | kblin | scratches his head and tries to remember his crypto lectures |
| 16:54.44 | JordiGH | |Kev|: LaTeX is pretty awesome for everything. I used to write my philosophy term papers as an undergrad in LaTeX, and I use it to write letters and yeah, everything else. |
| 16:55.16 | JordiGH | _hsr: I'm not too impressed by speed cubing, unless you figure it out on your own. Most speed cubers I know memorise a few rules they read on the internet. |
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| 16:56.05 | _hsr | obviously the internet is where I started |
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| 16:56.33 | _hsr | later on it became kind of embedded in my brai |
| 16:56.36 | _hsr | *brain |
| 16:56.39 | _hsr | or so |
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| 16:56.57 | JordiGH | Well, if you found the rules yourself, I'd be more impressed. Or if you wrote a program that helped you find minimum-distance moves and then you memorised those moves, I would also be more impressed. :-) |
| 16:57.20 | _hsr | woah, I am currently working on one :O |
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| 16:57.24 | JordiGH | I'm pretty slow at solving the cube, because I compose pretty long moves using a lot of conjugation. |
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| 16:58.48 | _hsr | most people try to solve a face, but cares not to look for the adjacent colors |
| 16:58.57 | KirarinSnow-cake | |Kev|: is DocBook Turing-complete? |
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| 16:59.28 | _hsr | once you figure a way to solve a face with its adjacent sides correct, it's pretty easy |
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| 17:00.06 | _hsr | oh and by less than a minute means, 59secs obviously :D |
| 17:00.46 | NUS_Wu_Biao | exit |
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| 17:01.36 | kblin | grr, and of course schneier only handwavingly covers hashed MACs in his book :/ |
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| 17:08.38 | _hsr | we can edit a proposal once we subit it, right? |
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| 17:09.56 | Triskelios | _hsr: yes, you have until the application period closes |
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| 17:15.04 | buffyg | _hsr: Not only can you edit, but you can ask for feedback and revise accordingly. |
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| 17:16.38 | buffyg | Ask the org to which you're applying how they want to handle that. |
| 17:17.38 | _hsr | hmm, I was at some point afraid to submit one, in case I screw up |
| 17:17.47 | _hsr | :p |
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| 17:22.23 | buffyg | _hrs: http://google-opensource.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/dos-and-donts-of-google-summer-of-code.html |
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| 17:22.46 | buffyg | Other than that, better to screw things up when you can still fix them than when you can't. |
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| 17:29.27 | gchaix | Hi all. should I ask about issues accessing melange here or in #melange? |
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| 17:30.17 | gchaix | I think my account from pervious years is having problems and it's preventing me from getting in |
| 17:30.34 | |Kev| | #melange is probably your better bet. |
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| 17:30.48 | gchaix | nods and pops on over there |
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| 17:41.42 | StevenChristou | hello |
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| 17:47.27 | _hsr | buffyg, I think I got the don'ts covered :p |
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| 17:47.54 | LightBenderWORK | so, I have a question, I am a mentor for Digital Mars (D Programming Langauge) and I can't seem to figure out how to link up with them from the dashboard, or is that something I can't do yet? |
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| 17:48.22 | |Kev| | You can. |
| 17:48.36 | |Kev| | Assuming you're not registered as a student |
| 17:49.35 | LightBenderWORK | I don't think so, it didn't ask me for anything like tax docs or student proposals, just my profile info |
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| 17:49.58 | |Kev| | There should be some Mentors: Apply button somewhere. |
| 17:50.37 | LightBenderWORK | mm, im not seeing it, maybe I did something wrong... |
| 17:50.47 | _hsr | resources, it seems irc & the dev forums are the only place I communicate with the org. mentors |
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| 17:51.15 | LightBenderWORK | or, does my application have to be approved by someone at Google before I can link up with the org? |
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| 17:52.17 | |Kev| | LightBenderWORK: No. |
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| 17:52.34 | yeswanth | LightBenderWORK, try out this link http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/profile/mentor/google/gsoc2012 |
| 17:52.43 | |Kev| | LightBenderWORK: If I go to http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 |
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| 17:53.05 | |Kev| | I see "students: apply now [Login] or [Register] ... [Or register as a mentor]" |
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| 17:53.15 | StevenChristou | Is it ok if the project I work on is part of the eclipse foundation? |
| 17:53.17 | |Kev| | Did you register as a mentorc? |
| 17:53.30 | LightBenderWORK | i clicked the register as mentor link, of that I am certain |
| 17:54.09 | |Kev| | LightBenderWORK: Well, then you should see the "mentors: apply!" bit. |
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| 17:54.14 | |Kev| | I see it for any org I visit. |
| 17:54.28 | LightBenderWORK | yeswanth, i tried that, it just sent me to this http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/profile/google/gsoc2012 |
| 17:55.01 | gevaerts | StevenChristou: I don't understand the question |
| 17:55.20 | LightBenderWORK | arg, I see where I messed up |
| 17:55.26 | Gallardo | Hello guyz |
| 17:55.34 | StevenChristou | so we could technically work on any open source project right? |
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| 17:56.30 | |Kev| | StevenChristou: Any project you can find an org that's willing to mentor. |
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| 17:56.50 | |Kev| | LightBenderWORK: How? |
| 17:56.51 | _hsr | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/profile/mentor/google/gsoc2012?org=dlang < that sould do I guess |
| 17:57.04 | StevenChristou | ok, thanks! |
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| 17:57.43 | LightBenderWORK | I just filled out the GSoC data, not the Digital Mars org app |
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| 17:57.55 | LightBenderWORK | i've sent in my request now |
| 17:58.02 | |Kev| | Excellent. |
| 17:58.02 | LightBenderWORK | thanks for pointing me in the right direction :-) |
| 17:58.13 | gevaerts | Oh, all 180 orgs are there now! |
| 17:58.25 | |Kev| | I wonder who 180 was. |
| 17:58.38 | gevaerts | I forgot to save a list, so I can't compare |
| 17:58.40 | gchaix | glowers at melange for being stubborn |
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| 18:15.03 | JordiGH | Heh, cute spelling |
| 18:15.07 | JordiGH | "You don't need your own idea, per say." |
| 18:15.21 | JordiGH | Total eggcorn. |
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| 18:16.11 | gevaerts | JordiGH: I think that particular abomination is quite common |
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| 18:17.16 | JordiGH | It seems like an eggcorn to me. I wonder what would Carol say. |
| 18:18.02 | gevaerts | Oh, it is |
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| 18:18.49 | Applify | Hi, i was wondering if i submit the proposal without the timeline at the moment. Is that fine? Since it would take me some time to make the timeline and anyways they would take time to read the proposal, I thought this should be fine... |
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| 18:19.43 | gevaerts | Applify: I'd say that's fine, although maybe it's a good idea to mention that you know the timeline is still missing |
| 18:19.44 | |Kev| | Applify: Ask your org. |
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| 18:19.59 | Applify | my org doesnt reply. And they dont have an IRC |
| 18:20.05 | |Kev| | But I don't see any minding if you put "Work in progress" at the top. |
| 18:20.10 | buffyg | I'm with |Kev|. Best way to meet expectations is to set them. |
| 18:21.15 | Applify | buffyg: I would like to do that but the org im talking to doesnt really reply much to their mailing list, and they dont have an IRC |
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| 18:21.28 | |Kev| | I'd say that's a very bad sign, personally. |
| 18:21.40 | |Kev| | Maybe it's just me. |
| 18:21.51 | Applify | bad sign indicating what? |
| 18:21.55 | |Kev| | Wait, is this the org that said they were inundated and sorry and trying to catch up? |
| 18:22.03 | Applify | no this is different |
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| 18:22.32 | buffyg | Applify: Are you seeing responses to other applicants or not much response to anyone? |
| 18:23.01 | ashwin | Is Publicly visible proposal means other students can view it? |
| 18:23.02 | Applify | Im not very sure but i think the rest are also facing the same...not sure though.. |
| 18:23.21 | |Kev| | Applify: You should be able to tell by the mails on their mailing list. |
| 18:23.36 | buffyg | Applify: Does the mailing list have archives you can check? |
| 18:23.42 | Applify | yes i can see them |
| 18:23.48 | Applify | and yea they do have replies |
| 18:23.59 | ajedwards | Applify, are you in touch with a mentor from this project or are you firing emails at the mailing list trying to get a response? Some orgs try to direct messages to mentors in the first case |
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| 18:24.04 | Applify | but i really dont know why i dont get any...I hope i didnt do anything wrong.. |
| 18:24.24 | gevaerts | !learn public as Marking an application public makes it readable by anyone who has the URL. There is no list of public applications |
| 18:24.24 | gsocbot | gevaerts: "public" is (#1) If a proposal is public anyone can see it if they have the url. Non-public proposals are visible by the student and the mentors for the organization they applied to. There is no list of all public proposals., or (#2) Marking an application public makes it readable by anyone who has the URL. There is no list of public applications |
| 18:24.35 | gevaerts | !forget public 2 |
| 18:24.36 | gsocbot | gevaerts: "public" is If a proposal is public anyone can see it if they have the url. Non-public proposals are visible by the student and the mentors for the organization they applied to. There is no list of all public proposals. |
| 18:24.43 | gevaerts | !public | ashwin |
| 18:24.43 | gsocbot | ashwin: "public" is If a proposal is public anyone can see it if they have the url. Non-public proposals are visible by the student and the mentors for the organization they applied to. There is no list of all public proposals. |
| 18:24.52 | gevaerts | should have known it would already be there :) |
| 18:25.11 | Applify | ajedwards: Their mailing list is specifically for GSoC related stuff. So i guess putting mails there is the right way to go? |
| 18:25.26 | Applify | coz i see many other posts related to gsoc there |
| 18:25.28 | d34th4ck3r | can we edit proposal , once we have submitted it? |
| 18:25.40 | |Kev| | Applify: Do you see your own post there? |
| 18:25.43 | Applify | yep |
| 18:25.46 | |Kev| | !modify | d34th4ck3r |
| 18:25.51 | |Kev| | Hmm. |
| 18:25.59 | Applify | infact I had Michitux see my posts to verify if i hadnt done anything wrong |
| 18:26.00 | ajedwards | possibly, some orgs are just quite busy... perhaps you've gone unnoticed? |
| 18:26.05 | |Kev| | !learn modify as Students can modify their proposals until the submission deadline. |
| 18:26.05 | gsocbot | |Kev|: "modify" is Students can modify their proposals until the submission deadline. |
| 18:26.08 | |Kev| | !modify | d34th4ck3r |
| 18:26.08 | gsocbot | d34th4ck3r: "modify" is Students can modify their proposals until the submission deadline. |
| 18:26.25 | Applify | by anything wrong i mean spam or something similar |
| 18:26.29 | gevaerts | |Kev|: it's only there if you don't expect it to be |
| 18:26.32 | JordiGH | It feels weird to be piping text into people... |
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| 18:27.08 | Applify | Do you think i should put a post expressing my concern for the lack of feedback? |
| 18:27.13 | |Kev| | Applify: Which org? Do you have a link to your post? |
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| 18:27.20 | Applify | its open intents |
| 18:27.26 | d34th4ck3r | gsocbot: how exactly is modify different from edit? |
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| 18:27.49 | |Kev| | Oh dear. |
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| 18:28.25 | Applify | |Kev|: anything wrong? |
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| 18:28.37 | |Kev| | Applify: No, the 'oh dear' was at talking to gsocbot. |
| 18:28.43 | Applify | oh .. |
| 18:29.00 | |Kev| | Applify: If you share a link to your post, I'm sure someone will say if you did anything obviously wrong. |
| 18:29.05 | d34th4ck3r | |Kev|: how exactly is modify different from edit? |
| 18:29.17 | |Kev| | d34th4ck3r: They're synonyms. |
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| 18:31.02 | JordiGH | Are any of you mentors in Montréal? |
| 18:32.14 | |Kev| | desperately resists the temptation to pipe !anyone into JordiGH :D |
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| 18:32.39 | JordiGH | !anyone ||Kev| |
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| 18:38.37 | Applify | ajedwards: do you think i should put up a post on their mailing list? |
| 18:38.47 | Applify | expressing my concerns about the lack of feedback? |
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| 18:40.27 | ajedwards | i think it might be worthwhile to bring it to their attention but do so in a tactful way or you may end up offending them |
| 18:40.55 | Applify | oh. Probably send a private mail instead of putting it up on the mailing list? |
| 18:41.12 | ajedwards | i think that would be the best way to address them, yes |
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| 18:41.23 | Applify | ok great. Thx a lot |
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| 19:13.31 | JordiGH | Sigh, I think we're going to have two or three very good proposals and can only accept one. ;_; |
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| 19:14.58 | BobMarley | hello |
| 19:15.30 | BobMarley | i am registering now to gsoc |
| 19:15.37 | BobMarley | in the field ::: |
| 19:15.38 | BobMarley | include complete international calling number with country code, use numbers only |
| 19:16.03 | BobMarley | the the international calling number must be from usa? |
| 19:16.35 | ajedwards | international calling codes are exactly that, international |
| 19:16.47 | ajedwards | for example the UK is 44 |
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| 19:17.28 | JordiGH | BobMarley: Country code, area code, local number. |
| 19:17.33 | BobMarley | http://www.howtocallabroad.com/results.php?callfrom=united_kingdom&callto=portugal |
| 19:17.50 | JordiGH | Looks like 351 is the country code. |
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| 19:18.01 | BobMarley | from usa to portugal that code is diferent |
| 19:18.04 | JordiGH | So +351 (area code) number |
| 19:18.09 | ajedwards | you don't need to show them how to dial out from their country, you just need to use the two digit country code |
| 19:18.10 | BobMarley | yes i am from pt |
| 19:18.19 | JordiGH | No, the country code is still 351. |
| 19:18.31 | BobMarley | but the 2 digits varry from country to country |
| 19:18.32 | JordiGH | ajedwards: Three digits, looks like. |
| 19:18.39 | gevaerts | One to three |
| 19:18.42 | JordiGH | BobMarley: The country code isn't the 00 or the 011. |
| 19:18.43 | BobMarley | the 3 digits are the country code |
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| 19:18.52 | BobMarley | the country code is 351 |
| 19:18.52 | JordiGH | BobMarley: The country code is 351, that doesn't depend from where you're calling. |
| 19:18.57 | buffyg | right, so just give those digits, not what you use to tell the phone system you're dialling international. |
| 19:18.59 | ajedwards | ah so it is! |
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| 19:19.35 | BobMarley | yes, but it is also required the complete international calling number (icn) |
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| 19:19.44 | BobMarley | this is a 2 digit nr |
| 19:19.52 | buffyg | Complete just means the country prefix. |
| 19:19.56 | BobMarley | and it varies from country to country |
| 19:20.50 | buffyg | You don't need to provide dialling information. The prefix length is indeed variable. That's not an obstacle to providing it. |
| 19:20.57 | JordiGH | BobMarley: It depends how you're calling. Most mobile phones for example can just accept +country_code phone_number and already know how to turn the + into whatever the current country wants for international calls. Point is, just write +351 and your number. |
| 19:21.42 | buffyg | I'm pretty sure it wants pure digits, no generic +, as that's implicit in context. |
| 19:21.45 | BobMarley | How to call Portugal from United States: |
| 19:21.45 | BobMarley | dial 011 + 351 + |
| 19:21.45 | BobMarley | How to call Portugal from United Kingdom: |
| 19:21.45 | BobMarley | dial 00 + 351 + |
| 19:22.10 | JordiGH | BobMarley: Type. 351. And. Your. Number. |
| 19:22.13 | buffyg | It wants 351<etc>. That's it. Class dismissed. |
| 19:22.20 | BobMarley | ok |
| 19:22.28 | BobMarley | thanks for the help |
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| 19:23.33 | enhydra | I’m now reading ToS, and 1.3.f is ridiculous |
| 19:23.45 | enhydra | “you are not [...] a family member” |
| 19:23.57 | enhydra | seems like it’s missing some words at the end |
| 19:24.39 | BobMarley | which is the maximum age to participate at this program? |
| 19:24.50 | JordiGH | BobMarley: There isn't oone. |
| 19:24.51 | JordiGH | one |
| 19:25.02 | JordiGH | There's only minimum age. |
| 19:25.07 | BobMarley | ok |
| 19:25.11 | BobMarley | which is? |
| 19:25.15 | enhydra | 18 |
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| 19:25.41 | BobMarley | tha is bad |
| 19:25.46 | enhydra | (ToS 1.3.e: “you are or will be 18 years of age or older by April 23, 2012 at 19:00 UTC”) |
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| 19:27.15 | BobMarley | if a 16 year student knows very well to program, why he/she cant participatE? |
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| 19:28.17 | Michitux | BobMarley: I think it's for legal reasons |
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| 19:28.41 | BobMarley | ok |
| 19:29.11 | BobMarley | in the field:: Expected graduation year |
| 19:29.15 | gevaerts | enhydra: do you have a URL for the ToS? I can't seem to find it on the site, and search seems to be broken |
| 19:29.28 | BobMarley | i must write when i expect to end the undergraduate or the master degree? |
| 19:29.34 | Al_Da_Best | http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/student_agreement |
| 19:29.41 | enhydra | gevaerts, http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2012/student_agreement |
| 19:29.46 | gevaerts | thanks |
| 19:29.46 | enhydra | aww |
| 19:29.50 | Al_Da_Best | Ninja'd |
| 19:30.02 | Michitux | BobMarley: for pre-university students google does offer the gci contest (with different age requirements) |
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| 19:30.19 | yashshah | Hi, can we edit our proposal after submitting? |
| 19:30.32 | BobMarley | yes |
| 19:30.33 | edsiper | yashshah, yes, always before the deadline |
| 19:30.53 | yashshah | edsiper: BobMarley: Thank you! |
| 19:30.58 | edsiper | np |
| 19:30.59 | gevaerts | enhydra: You're right that "you are not a Google employee, intern, contractor, or family member" isn't exactly entirely correct (it seems to mean you aren't "the son of Google" :). Given ToSes for previous years I suspect it's meant to mean "you are not a Google employee, intern, contractor, or family member of one" |
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| 19:31.55 | kTwitch | Hello all, when you make your proposal public who exactly can see it? |
| 19:31.56 | enhydra | I’d even understand it as “not a family member of any family whatsoever” |
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| 19:32.02 | BobMarley | so as i em doing the undergraduate, i must write when i will end it? |
| 19:32.25 | gevaerts | !public | kTwitch |
| 19:32.26 | gsocbot | kTwitch: "public" is If a proposal is public anyone can see it if they have the url. Non-public proposals are visible by the student and the mentors for the organization they applied to. There is no list of all public proposals. |
| 19:32.52 | kTwitch | appreciate it! |
| 19:33.34 | JordiGH | In a proposal to GNU: "All aside, it will be an honour to mark my entry into open source development through the organization that is know as the mother of free and open source software." |
| 19:34.04 | JordiGH | wonders if an "open source" sermon would be out of order. :P |
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| 19:36.55 | gevaerts | JordiGH: forward it to the right people, and the sermon will be automatically generated :) |
| 19:37.02 | BobMarley | there is no gci2012? |
| 19:37.07 | BobMarley | but why? |
| 19:37.22 | Michitux | BobMarley: most probably because it hasn't been announced yet |
| 19:37.31 | Michitux | BobMarley: google doesn't pre-announce its programs |
| 19:37.53 | BobMarley | the gsoc was preannounced, i think |
| 19:38.04 | Michitux | BobMarley: i.e. look when gci 2011 was announced and espect gci 2012 to be announced at approx. the same time of the year |
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| 19:39.47 | gevaerts | BobMarley: gsoc was announced in early February |
| 19:40.09 | Michitux | BobMarley: and before february 4 it was always an "if we should run the program again" |
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| 19:41.56 | BobMarley | ???if we should run the program again ?? |
| 19:41.57 | BobMarley | why? |
| 19:42.08 | BobMarley | which is the purpose of this statement? |
| 19:42.19 | Al_Da_Best | Google have to make the decision to run it every year, it's no guarantee |
| 19:42.34 | JordiGH | BobMarley: Google isn't under any obligation to give people money with programmes like GSoC or GCI. |
| 19:43.08 | BobMarley | they are expecting people feedback ? |
| 19:43.25 | gevaerts | It's not a question |
| 19:44.03 | gevaerts | It's another way of saying "In case we run the program again" |
| 19:44.07 | chitz | Can i send multiple proposals for different project ideas of the same mentoring organization? |
| 19:44.17 | Michitux | chitz: yes |
| 19:44.21 | ojwb | chitz: you can, but it's best to talk to the org first |
| 19:45.02 | ojwb | chitz: didn't you ask the exact same question (and get the same reply) yesterday? |
| 19:46.05 | chitz | ojwb: Yes, I did. But I just read it some blog that we cannot. So just thought I should convince myself. |
| 19:46.23 | kblin | chitz: technically you can |
| 19:46.29 | Michitux | chitz: where did you read that? |
| 19:46.33 | kblin | but you should talk to the mentoring org first |
| 19:46.38 | chitz | Thanks. |
| 19:47.00 | kblin | and I'd argue that everything not on the google-opensource blog probably isn't authorative |
| 19:47.02 | chitz | Yes, I have been communicating with them for some time now. |
| 19:47.18 | ojwb | there's a lot of ignorant people out there blogging on a lot of topics |
| 19:47.31 | kblin | I think in the previous years you had 20 applications |
| 19:47.38 | ojwb | http://xkcd.com/386/ |
| 19:47.43 | kblin | you could technically apply to the same org 20 times |
| 19:47.55 | ojwb | and i'm sure someone has |
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| 19:48.36 | kblin | but I figure that spending time on more than two applications will actually reduce your chances of getting accepted |
| 19:49.07 | kblin | unless you're whoever it was who would have gotten accepted by 6 orgs back in 2007 |
| 19:49.11 | ojwb | and often the org can guide you as to which project of theirs it's better for you to apply for |
| 19:49.36 | ojwb | that was back before most orgs set qualifying tasks though |
| 19:49.41 | ojwb | and clearly an outlier |
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| 19:50.27 | kblin | right, single one I heard of in all the years gsoc has been running now |
| 19:51.23 | ojwb | which probably makes him one in about 20000 |
| 19:53.44 | JordiGH | kblin: Haha, someone got accepted by 6 orgs? |
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| 19:53.51 | JordiGH | Who was it, jwz? |
| 19:54.09 | chitz | kblin: I think I'm really confused to pick just one. :( Also there's the risk of that proposal being rejected, say because of lack of communication from either ends. But I get your points, thanks for the insight. |
| 19:54.20 | ojwb | i forget his name, i met him at a mentor summit I think |
| 19:54.56 | ojwb | chitz: if you don't talk to the org before submitting two proposals, that's a lack of communication right there |
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| 19:56.53 | chitz | ojwb: I did, but didn't hear anything from their end. |
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| 19:57.06 | c0smikdebris | ok. i've sent ~6 mails in the past week to this org and I haven't heard back from them |
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| 19:57.18 | chitz | ojwb: like partly! :) |
| 19:57.18 | c0smikdebris | maybe i should just find a different project |
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| 19:59.05 | ojwb | bear in mind that mentors are mostly volunteers with jobs, often families, etc, and will probably have got a lot of mail about gsoc recently, but if they really don't respond for a whole week, you probably want to consider other orgs |
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| 20:00.15 | c0smikdebris | ojwb: they were pretty quick before the org list came out. |
| 20:00.22 | c0smikdebris | i've tried IRC as well. no response :/ |
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| 20:04.33 | ojwb | c0smikdebris: which org? |
| 20:04.35 | andrei___ | We should make a blacklist of orgs that don't return emails >:) |
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| 20:06.15 | c0smikdebris | ojwb: overtone, they're participating under clojure |
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| 20:06.18 | c0smikdebris | http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Google+Summer+of+Code+2012#GoogleSummerofCode2012-Overtone |
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| 20:15.24 | yashshah | I would like to know, what if you apply to multiple organization and you get selected in all of them? Can we prioritize the proposals? |
| 20:16.32 | ojwb | yashshah: you may get a say, but don't rely on it |
| 20:17.02 | ojwb | ultimately it's assumed you only apply for projects you'd be happy to do |
| 20:17.03 | yashshah | ojwb: Okay! Thanks :) |
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| 20:20.48 | chitz | If my mentoring org that I wish to apply to, has provided a project template. So to call an proposal "complete", is it necessary remain in bounds of the template? Or can we add more to it? |
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| 20:21.50 | chitz | My mentoring org that I wish to apply to, has provided a project template. So to call an proposal "complete", is it necessary to remain in bounds of the template? Or can I add more to it? * |
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| 20:24.28 | mmadia | chitz -- it'd be best to ask the org directly. |
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| 20:25.06 | chitz | mmadia: Cool. Will do that. Thanks :) |
| 20:25.11 | mmadia | though, there is a comment system which many orgs make use of, for additional feedback/communication/improvements. |
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| 20:26.12 | chitz | mmadia: That all is to be done before 6th April, right? |
| 20:27.20 | mmadia | the proposal needs to be submitted before the 6th. many orgs suggest submitting it asap, as the students can edit the application up until the 6th. |
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| 20:28.18 | mmadia | and then after the deadline, discussions can still continue in the comments section. |
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| 20:29.07 | mmadia | e.g., some orgs may seek additional clarification on proposals during that time. |
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| 20:34.08 | chitz_ | mmadia: Gotcha, Thanks :) |
| 20:35.07 | Lennie | !next |
| 20:35.08 | gsocbot | Lennie: "next" is Apr 6 19:00 UTC - Student application deadline. |
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| 20:38.07 | schumaml | our mentors describe the signup process as "confuzzling" |
| 20:38.30 | epsil | where do I find the comments section? |
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| 20:39.30 | mmadia | epsil -- at the bottom of a particular proposal. |
| 20:39.44 | epsil | oh, okay |
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| 20:45.52 | buffyg | schumaml: I've had similar feedback about problems with mentor registration. People are swearing that they signed up. My cat-herding spies even swear they've seen registrations completed with their own eyes, yet I'm not seeing them come through. |
| 20:46.45 | Lennie | buffyg, registration != as requesting to become a mentor |
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| 20:47.50 | ojwb | Lennie: if this is confusing people, perhaps the page you get after completing registration should clearly direct you to sign up with an org next |
| 20:47.53 | ojwb | if it doesn't alreayd |
| 20:49.13 | buffyg | Agreed. I'm not hearing a lot of positive feedback about the UI, and my personal experience confirms that. At least if people are registered, I should be able to invite them. |
| 20:49.24 | Lennie | buffyg, that you are |
| 20:49.29 | Lennie | and if you are not then they haven't registered :) |
| 20:49.38 | buffyg | I know there aren't any melange-fixing faeries out there, so that's as good as it gets. |
| 20:49.49 | Lennie | buffyg, patches welcome... |
| 20:50.00 | Lennie | buffyg, also are you a new org? |
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| 20:50.11 | GottfriedHofmann | a nice GSoC-Logo anywhere? |
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| 20:50.18 | JordiGH | !logo |
| 20:50.19 | gsocbot | JordiGH: "logo" is The GSoC logo is available from http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/GsocLogos |
| 20:50.19 | Lennie | !logos | GottfriedHofmann |
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| 20:50.24 | Lennie | darn :D |
| 20:50.29 | JordiGH | Flawless victory... |
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| 20:50.50 | Lennie | buffyg, don't be afraid to answer that one I'm not going to do bad things :) |
| 20:51.09 | GottfriedHofmann | oh, was hoping for a clearer one like the one from 2011 |
| 20:51.29 | ChrisOelmueller | Lennie likes to eat new org admins, but never admits |
| 20:51.58 | GottfriedHofmann | text bent in the flags - hard to read as a small logo on a poster :( |
| 20:52.02 | buffyg | Lennie: No, not a new org. |
| 20:52.23 | Lennie | buffyg, don't you think this is an improvement over 2010? At least it is way faster |
| 20:52.35 | Lennie | 2011 was kind of a transition year :) |
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| 20:57.02 | ChrisOelmueller | signing up was less painful in 2011 from what my mentors report |
| 20:57.06 | denials | is giving a GSoC information session at his uni tomorrow to encourage prospective students to apply. Yay! |
| 20:57.10 | Niels_ | hey everyone |
| 20:57.17 | denials | (better late than never) |
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| 21:05.26 | Lennie | ChrisOelmueller, if you can be more specific in perhaps an email to melange-soc-dev@googlegroups.com that would be very helpful. We actually hope to get a student to redo that flow this year :) |
| 21:06.19 | ChrisOelmueller | Lennie: well i fear it was (and is) just confusing for them that they have an account in melange, but had to fill the entire form again |
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| 21:06.53 | ChrisOelmueller | i understand this might be seen as necessary because people can change roles over the program years |
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| 21:07.19 | Niels_ | I have a few questions. Please answer them. |
| 21:07.21 | ChrisOelmueller | but a reasonable assumption imho would be that mentor accounts stay mentors and can opt out to be a student somewhere |
| 21:07.42 | Niels_ | First, is gsoc available for students of all countries? |
| 21:07.49 | ojwb | Niels_: most |
| 21:08.05 | ojwb | there are a few countries google can't trade with due to US law |
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| 21:08.16 | ojwb | see the FAQ |
| 21:08.18 | Niels_ | alright, so if one wants to participate as a student, they have to be present at the gsoc meetup? |
| 21:08.28 | ojwb | no |
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| 21:09.27 | Niels_ | alright I'll just go through the faqs first. |
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| 21:10.21 | Lennie | ChrisOelmueller, it should have auto-completed their information from last year. I agree that's silly |
| 21:10.38 | Lennie | What isn't silly is that they need to agree to the ToS again (well might be silly if you hate lawyery stuff :P) |
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| 21:11.18 | ChrisOelmueller | let's say i don't particularly like them (but there surely is a way to update those other than displaying the entire registration form?) |
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| 21:11.57 | buffyg | ChrisOelmueller: +1 |
| 21:12.28 | Lennie | To some extend we need to have it on file that they signed last year too :P |
| 21:14.52 | Niels_ | alright I had a look at the faqs. A lot of questions got answered but a few still remain. |
| 21:15.30 | downey | Niels_: Go ahead with them :) |
| 21:15.33 | Niels_ | Like, the gsoc program is from May to July right? |
| 21:16.08 | downey | Niels_: May-August, more or less. http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2012 |
| 21:17.15 | ojwb | Lennie: be nice if there was an indication of what was new/changed in the ToS, though I guess the lawyers might not be so keen |
| 21:17.33 | Niels_ | ok so in this time, will the mentors be telling us only the algorithm or they also teach some coding aspects? :o |
| 21:18.06 | downey | Niels_: I think that probably depends on the specific organization, mentor, and project you're working on. That time is reserved for students to complete the project (typically I assume it's mostly coding) |
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| 21:19.42 | Niels_ | I see. |
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| 21:20.18 | Catfish_Man | Niels_: a useful mental model for it is that it's similar to an internship |
| 21:20.34 | Catfish_Man | although admittedly, internships vary so wildly that that may not help that much |
| 21:20.52 | Niels_ | yeah that was the picture I had in mind :) |
| 21:21.55 | downey | Niels_: If you're looking at specific projects, those are good question for your potential mentor(s). They should be able to tell you how they'd like to organize the summer. |
| 21:22.34 | Niels_ | One last problem I'm facing is that I'm interested in coding but I'm afraid my knowledge isn't really at the sufficient/desired level yet. I mostly work in C#, though I did work in c++ too. But I'm not fast |
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| 21:25.00 | JordiGH | http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCStudentGuide/ch003_am-i-good-enough/ |
| 21:25.09 | JordiGH | Niels_: --^ |
| 21:25.43 | downey | Niels_: ^ :) |
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| 21:26.21 | JordiGH | Niels_ --> ~:) |
| 21:26.23 | Niels_ | thanks |
| 21:26.24 | JordiGH | Looks like Elvis. |
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| 21:41.37 | Niels_ | wow the projects look scary tbh :O |
| 21:42.05 | AlexKmoch | Noooo |
| 21:42.13 | AlexKmoch | don't look scary :-) |
| 21:42.23 | AlexKmoch | so exciting |
| 21:42.50 | Niels_ | well yeah but they all seem to be hardcore stuff.. require hell of experience and expertise :/ |
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| 21:44.10 | AlexKmoch | yeah, that's true ... but see it from the other side, if you get accepted, you can go there ... doing hardcore stuff yourself :-p |
| 21:44.32 | AlexKmoch | at least that is my approach :-) I am not a hardcore coder at all |
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| 21:45.17 | AlexKmoch | on challenges we grow :-p Wow, that's enough philosophy for today |
| 21:45.18 | schumaml | there's one org tagged for beginners |
| 21:45.40 | Niels_ | hehe AlexKmoch I'll keep that in mind :) |
| 21:45.45 | Niels_ | schumaml: which one? :o |
| 21:45.53 | schumaml | Systers |
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| 21:47.49 | schumaml | they have the following requirement for joining their org (not clear if this covers gsoc as well): "Note: Systers is only open to women in computing; if you are male, you may not join" |
| 21:48.27 | Niels_ | lol |
| 21:48.32 | AlexKmoch | wow, that's weird :-) |
| 21:48.49 | ofan | .. |
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| 21:50.13 | schumaml | well, many software projects have implicit "if your are female, you may not (or actually, may not want to) join" requirement |
| 21:50.20 | schumaml | +an |
| 21:50.45 | desti_T2 | 0.o |
| 21:51.22 | schumaml | anyway, I bet some more orgs could tag themselves with beginner-friendly if they had thought about this tag |
| 21:52.24 | buffyg | We had a whole session at the mentor summit about letting girls into the treehouse. |
| 21:52.54 | Niels_ | I wanted to work on blender but their ongoing projects are quite complicated stuff :o |
| 21:53.03 | buffyg | Mostly what I learned is that it's extraordinarily hard if your community consists largely of male teenage gamers. |
| 21:53.49 | schumaml | oh yes |
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| 21:55.24 | schumaml | try to attract co-op players who despise deathmatch |
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| 21:58.03 | Niels_ | oh well thanks for answering everyone :) |
| 21:58.14 | Niels_ | Have to go now. See ya all later. |
| 22:01.03 | buffyg | I'm complaning slightly. I'd like to see women more involved, but gamerboys look like the fat edge of the wedge. I was a bit mystified as to why so much time was spent on that space. |
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| 22:02.01 | ojwb | schumaml: at least one of the systers ideas says you need to be a member or eligible to join, but they don't all |
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| 22:22.20 | cpolymeris | just wondering: do orgs already know how many slots they'll get? |
| 22:22.33 | Al_Da_Best | No |
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| 22:25.13 | downey | cpolymeris: They probably know how many they'll ask for, but that's all. |
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| 22:25.30 | ojwb | suspects most don't even know that |
| 22:25.31 | AlexKmoch | hi, do you now the difference about the proposals for the projects and the final application, which should be submitted on the official GoSC site? |
| 22:25.41 | ojwb | since it depends on how many good proposals they get |
| 22:25.59 | cpolymeris | i see |
| 22:26.01 | downey | ojwb: Well, there's a field for that number on the org profile page. :) |
| 22:26.02 | ojwb | has a rough idea |
| 22:26.12 | ojwb | downey: yes, I haven't filled that in yet |
| 22:26.44 | ojwb | knows how many people have said they are interested in mentoring, though more might pop up yet |
| 22:27.13 | ko_lo | hi there! |
| 22:27.26 | ko_lo | I've got a small question for you :) |
| 22:27.45 | mathieui | I don’t get the NotesonStudentAllocations page on the wiki ; it says most projects have at least two students allocated, do these students work on the same task, do they collaborate, do they compete? |
| 22:28.03 | ko_lo | are all orgs ideas goods for a gsoc? |
| 22:28.06 | ojwb | it means org when it says project |
| 22:28.09 | ojwb | mathieui: ^ |
| 22:28.11 | mathieui | oh, okay |
| 22:28.14 | ko_lo | (alll idea on list) |
| 22:28.15 | cpolymeris | AlexKmoch: same thing... you send your proposal to the mailing list to discuss it, and then formally apply through google-melange |
| 22:28.18 | mathieui | clearer |
| 22:28.24 | ojwb | the double meaning of project is a pain |
| 22:29.19 | buffyg | You'll never get an IRC channel to compile at that rate. |
| 22:29.24 | AlexKmoch | cpolymeris: yeah, that's what I thought :-) kind a double effort, as some projects already have more or less fixed tasks presented |
| 22:30.05 | cpolymeris | you can always just apply in google-melange a post a link to that application (as long as you have set it to public) to the mailing list for discussion |
| 22:30.19 | ojwb | AlexKmoch: proposal and application are used interchangeably for the same thing |
| 22:30.28 | cpolymeris | you'll probably get valuable feedback on how to modify or improve it |
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| 22:31.18 | AlexKmoch | ah ok, and what does google do with the applications? do just forward it to the projects/orgs? |
| 22:31.57 | schumaml | the orgs see them immediately |
| 22:32.07 | downey | AlexKmoch: When you submit your proposals, they go to the organization, who then review it and/or assign one or more mentors to it. How they handle it is up to each org. |
| 22:32.46 | ojwb | google have very little to do with the process |
| 22:33.12 | AlexKmoch | alright :-) |
| 22:33.15 | cpolymeris | I would still send a link to the mailing list or forum, typically not all developers have access to their org's platform on melange |
| 22:33.16 | ojwb | if there's a conflict which the orgs can't resolve amongst themselves, they'll step in, but they'd rather we sorted it out |
| 22:33.31 | downey | AlexKmoch: For example in my case as org admin I review them all for basic completeness and then assign them to a mentor who evaluates and ranks all the student proposals for their project idea. |
| 22:34.32 | AlexKmoch | oh, wow, thanks for that feedback. |
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| 22:58.28 | ojwb | has anyone paid money to the SFC via their UK intermediary account? (a bit off-topic I know, but quite a few GSoC orgs are SFC members) |
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| 23:00.56 | pokoko222 | I have 2200 lines of code for the project I work on, and now I documented what all the code does in a pdf |
| 23:01.06 | pokoko222 | is it safe to send the pdf on mailing list or github? |
| 23:01.18 | pokoko222 | could someone take that and present it as his for the gsoc application? |
| 23:02.20 | gevaerts | A pdf seems rather useless. You should send the source for that |
| 23:03.05 | ChrisOelmueller | pokoko222: if you're afraid of others seeing your work, don't do gsoc. |
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| 23:03.09 | ChrisOelmueller | i'm serious. |
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| 23:04.04 | schumaml | not such much seeing, but plagiarizing is the problem, I guess |
| 23:04.05 | klocatelli | presumably he's afraid an applicant will "steal" his work, though I'm not sure why given that mailing lists have timestamps and what not... |
| 23:04.55 | pokoko222 | no it is not about seeing... |
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| 23:05.22 | ChrisOelmueller | then why don't you show your stuff, for all to be seen? |
| 23:05.37 | pokoko222 | I am just asking, I am trying gsoc for first time... |
| 23:05.52 | pokoko222 | the source will be sent to github yes but still... |
| 23:05.57 | cemycc | gsoc means opensource work |
| 23:06.00 | ChrisOelmueller | trust your org. they are capable of reading their own ML. |
| 23:06.04 | pokoko222 | ok |
| 23:06.23 | buffyg | pokoko222: I'd suggest that it's better to focus on what the org to which you're applying signals they want. |
| 23:06.24 | ChrisOelmueller | should anybody, for whatever reason, try and copy your pdf with your name into their application, it just won't work |
| 23:07.04 | pokoko222 | they want to merge the code... it has grown now to 2200 line or something |
| 23:07.30 | pokoko222 | I got to know the mentors more closely too, we exchanged many mails so I guess I should not be afraid |
| 23:07.39 | pokoko222 | I mean they know my name they know i did it so... |
| 23:07.43 | buffyg | pokoko222: I think a URL with the repo to merge is likely to be fine. |
| 23:07.52 | pokoko222 | ok guys |
| 23:08.03 | ojwb | it's pretty obvious if you get two applications which contain parts of the same text |
| 23:08.07 | pokoko222 | I know these questions sound stupid to you, I just wanna make sure I don't blow up and regret |
| 23:08.10 | MatthewWilkes | pokoko222: We are used to spammy applications including copied work, we look out for it |
| 23:08.42 | andrei__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.59 | MatthewWilkes | pokoko222: Most orgs get a few applications that are copy pastes of mailing list posts, mostly from core developers discussing the ideas list, it's obvious and they get disqualified |
| 23:09.00 | cpolymeris | happened to me last year... a late application was essentially a copy of my early one, with minor changes... even the timeline dates where the same |
| 23:09.03 | buffyg | pokoko222: Given the number of times you've asked after code here, I wouldn't be worried about having more lines, etc. I'd be trying to round things out and focus on other aspects. |
| 23:09.06 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: Plone, but we're not taking part this year |
| 23:09.21 | pokoko222 | cpolymeris: so what happened |
| 23:09.29 | andrei__ | Wow, to my shame I've never heard of you until now |
| 23:09.49 | pokoko222 | buffyg: yep the code part is done, I will do so as you suggest, there are other things now |
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| 23:10.03 | andrei__ | How was it when you took part? |
| 23:10.04 | cpolymeris | the org noticed it and disqualified the student |
| 23:10.17 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: There are lots of open source orgs, you can't keep track of us all |
| 23:10.24 | schumaml | applications without any sort of effort go like this: "You give me certain images and i will manipulate them the way you want" |
| 23:10.33 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: We had a lot of fun, this is only the 2nd year we won't be taking part |
| 23:10.38 | andrei__ | MatthewWilkes: Yeah, but I thought I knew most big CMSs :P |
| 23:10.40 | isaacbw | what was a student disqualified for? |
| 23:11.03 | cpolymeris | copying another student's application (mine) |
| 23:11.03 | andrei__ | isaacbw: Probably for shamelessly copying stuff in his application |
| 23:11.11 | isaacbw | :( |
| 23:11.15 | andrei__ | cpolymeris: Wow, an entire application? |
| 23:11.15 | cpolymeris | he had added some good ideas, though |
| 23:11.17 | andrei__ | That sounds fun |
| 23:11.26 | cpolymeris | I think it was a matter of time |
| 23:11.27 | pokoko222 | cpolymeris: well I will provide github link to my profile and code so ... I guess I am safe, if someone tries to steal anything my github account will kill him :D |
| 23:11.32 | andrei__ | freegsocapplications [d0t] com haha |
| 23:11.32 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: We have a lot of active people thanks to GSoC, former release manager was a GSoC student, lots of events are organised by ex-GSoCers, etc |
| 23:12.01 | andrei__ | MatthewWilkes: Sounds cool; I've bookmarked plone.org already anyway :) |
| 23:12.02 | cpolymeris | the guy applied the last day or so... didn't have time to write his own! |
| 23:12.13 | isaacbw | was this last year or something? |
| 23:12.14 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: :) |
| 23:12.27 | andrei__ | They should add Rule #0: Don't copy other people's applications. |
| 23:12.39 | pokoko222 | cpolymeris: it got resolved without problems or there was possibility that it does damage to you? |
| 23:12.40 | schumaml | last year (or 2010?) some student seriously tried to discuss ways for cheating gsoc right on this channel |
| 23:12.43 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: If you want to play I recommend ploud.net – free cloud based hosting |
| 23:12.50 | cpolymeris | no problems at all, pokoko222 |
| 23:12.53 | MatthewWilkes | schumaml: really? I missed that one |
| 23:12.59 | andrei__ | That sounds nice |
| 23:13.04 | pokoko222 | anyways I dont get what people get by copying, they will have to code later, dont they think about that :D |
| 23:13.11 | isaacbw | cpolymeris, was this during a previous year? |
| 23:13.18 | cpolymeris | last year |
| 23:13.34 | andrei__ | Is it anything like Heroku? |
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| 23:13.53 | andrei__ | Or just general-purpose hosting? |
| 23:13.56 | schumaml | MatthewWilkes: to make things worse, he was one of the usual suspects |
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| 23:14.15 | andrei__ | schumaml: What do you mean "usual suspects"? *confused* |
| 23:14.38 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: Just a commercial venture by a plone hosting company that has a free plan |
| 23:15.03 | andrei__ | MatthewWilkes: I see; do you do anything interesting, programming-wise? |
| 23:15.24 | MatthewWilkes | I like to think so ;) |
| 23:15.37 | andrei__ | I'd like to join some OSS org if you accept newbies to this kind of stuff |
| 23:15.43 | schumaml | andrei__: students from a certain geographic location who seem to be prone to cheating |
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| 23:15.50 | gevaerts | makes people read http://dmitry.co/index.php?p=./04.Thoughts/07.%20Linux%20on%208bit instead of spending all their time on applying :) |
| 23:16.01 | andrei__ | schumaml: Oh. Didn't think of that. I thought of spammers |
| 23:16.14 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: Newbies are welcome pretty much everywhere I think |
| 23:16.36 | andrei__ | MatthewWilkes: How do you "join" your org? |
| 23:16.59 | barrbrain | curiosly, any AU mentors or students on the channel? |
| 23:17.49 | andrei__ | I used double quotes because I don't know exactly what "joining" an oss org means |
| 23:17.56 | cpolymeris | andrei__: choose an org from the list on google-melange, go read their homepage/ideas list, start chatting on their IRC, post on their mailing list, send in some patches, profit! |
| 23:18.10 | andrei__ | Hmm I see. Thank cpolymeris |
| 23:18.10 | buffyg | Usually it means lurking from a while and then digging in. |
| 23:18.19 | andrei__ | thanks* |
| 23:18.28 | buffyg | er, for a while |
| 23:18.36 | MatthewWilkes | andrei__: http://plone.org/community |
| 23:18.41 | ojwb | barrbrain: i don't think you get many australian students, as the timeline fits badly |
| 23:19.08 | barrbrain | ojwb: I only know of 1 |
| 23:19.17 | klocatelli | lol now that's one hell of a low-end linux box |
| 23:19.25 | andrei__ | Thanks guys - gonna take a glance at MatthewWilkes's org now. Cheers |
| 23:19.31 | cpolymeris | there is a list of students by country years 2005-2010 |
| 23:19.34 | ojwb | is in NZ |
| 23:19.40 | cpolymeris | there where 58 students total |
| 23:19.46 | cpolymeris | for AU, that is |
| 23:20.00 | ojwb | which is in a similar situation |
| 23:20.07 | barrbrain | orly? |
| 23:20.30 | cpolymeris | well, azerbaidjan only had 1 |
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| 23:23.38 | cpolymeris | some very small countries, otoh, have sent a lot of students in that 5 year period: romania, 107; sri lanka 140 |
| 23:23.45 | cpolymeris | wonders why that is |
| 23:24.36 | desti_T2 | 5000$ is much more worth for them |
| 23:25.04 | ojwb | also, you need to hear about it to apply, so if it gets publicised at even one uni in a country that can make a big difference |
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| 23:27.24 | ojwb | aha, we're at 180 orgs now |
| 23:28.43 | desti_T2 | which was the last? |
| 23:30.05 | MatthewWilkes | ojwb: Finally! |
| 23:30.25 | MatthewWilkes | You know you're a geek when: you try to autocomplete 'finally' in a chat context |
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| 23:30.47 | ojwb | desti_T2: dunno - I have a CSV export from a few days ago, but it's on a different machine which is off currently |
| 23:32.41 | naderman | uh so what do you do if a student tells you in their application that they lied about their age to apply? :S |
| 23:33.21 | barrbrain | naderman: reject, I should think |
| 23:33.43 | naderman | doesn't google verify this in any way? |
| 23:34.18 | ojwb | naderman: yes, they'll want proof of this stuff |
| 23:34.27 | naderman | ah ok, so just later on |
| 23:34.43 | ojwb | i'd probably drop a note to carols in case another org fails to notice |
| 23:34.56 | ojwb | it'll just create a mess if they get accepted |
| 23:35.41 | ojwb | naderman: yes, google ask for accepted students, which means many fewer to check |
| 23:35.53 | ojwb | 1000 or so rather than 3000 or so |
| 23:35.56 | naderman | right |
| 23:36.11 | ojwb | though if you checked up front, I suspect that 3000 would be reduced |
| 23:36.21 | barrbrain | is sad, AU participation started at 16 and has steadily declined since 2005 |
| 23:36.41 | ojwb | barrbrain: AU$ is near parity these days isn't it? |
| 23:36.44 | ojwb | with US |
| 23:36.54 | ojwb | which must make it less attractive from that point of view |
| 23:37.14 | barrbrain | ojwb: I think above parity last I checked |
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| 23:38.19 | desti_T2 | has anyone found some more hardware projects like the pi3diamond? |
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