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| 00:46.01 | mmadia | for reserving the hotel for the mentor summit, do we front the money? |
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| 00:48.23 | mmadia | ahhh, "Pay by Company". nevermind. :) |
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| 18:08.53 | *** topic/#gsoc is Welcome to Google Summer of Code 2011! Please read the FAQs - http://goo.gl/Up2Qf and the Timeline - http://goo.gl/0lYPz for more info. |
| 18:08.54 | yemit | "51st position out of 60 in ACM ICPC regionals" -- this guy got selected |
| 18:09.08 | yemit | He had 3 certificates |
| 18:09.25 | yemit | while the 30th position guy didnt cause he had only 1 documentary proof |
| 18:09.32 | dberkholz | sounds like you should be going for a different type of selection |
| 18:10.31 | Who | carols: we will get this final evaluation papers tonight |
| 18:10.33 | Who | ? |
| 18:10.37 | carols | Who: papers? |
| 18:10.41 | carols | i don't understand |
| 18:10.55 | Who | i mean the form , like the one we had at midterm |
| 18:10.55 | yemit | dberkholz: This is the primary way to get an internship in EU from India ( IAESTE if you've heard of it ). Within India its not so weird |
| 18:11.04 | Who | i am sorry i have a paper tomorrow |
| 18:11.13 | Who | so everything seems like paper now |
| 18:11.13 | carols | Who: i sent the questions out for the final evaluation already. is that what you mean? |
| 18:11.16 | yemit | Who: Its already sent out to the mailing list |
| 18:12.09 | Who | i see |
| 18:13.20 | dberkholz | yemit: instead, just pass and apply for an internship with google or mozilla next year. |
| 18:13.24 | Who | thanks |
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| 18:14.16 | yemit | passing is the preferable choice :) -- it also gets me a new car |
| 18:16.58 | dberkholz | you've got that much motivation to pass and you're worried about failing? |
| 18:18.14 | yemit | motivation != skillset.. I'm not sure I'll be able to clear the last milestone of my project as that seems much more advanced than I had thought initially |
| 18:18.27 | carols | yemit: have you talked to your mentor about it? |
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| 18:18.54 | yemit | thats the next step.. will do it tomorrow |
| 18:18.59 | yemit | going to sleep now |
| 18:19.08 | yemit | (I just realised this today) |
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| 18:19.54 | dberkholz | you're running about a month late on that step.. |
| 18:21.17 | downeym | :-/ |
| 18:24.00 | dberkholz | mentor communication seems like such a good predictor of how people do in gsoc. |
| 18:24.09 | kblin | true |
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| 18:25.05 | Catfish_Man | dberkholz: I would say it unfairly discourages cultures where admission of failure is socially unacceptable, but... honestly, life isn't very fair that way either ;) |
| 18:25.38 | dberkholz | i've gotta wonder how anyone ever accomplishes anything in a culture like that |
| 18:25.52 | dberkholz | just imagine putting together a car where 5 of the parts are defective but nobody would admit it |
| 18:25.54 | kblin | unless your communication with your mentor is a constant stream of "I couldn't do what I'd promised because my dog ate my computer" |
| 18:26.09 | Catfish_Man | kblin: point |
| 18:26.27 | *** join/#gsoc in3xes_ (~in3xes@180.149.49.227) |
| 18:26.44 | kblin | but I'd say the percentage of these folks is pretty low.. after mid-term at least ;) |
| 18:27.09 | scorche|sh | Catfish_Man: it is all about perspective! - our recent visitor wont fail - he succeeded half-way! |
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| 18:27.48 | kblin | it's just that gsoc was twice as long as neccessary ;) |
| 18:28.09 | dberkholz | seems like experience in gsoc is just about learning all the ways things can screw up and successively avoiding more of them each year |
| 18:28.14 | scorche|sh | it wasnt is fault - if GSoC was only half the time, he could have made it! |
| 18:28.19 | scorche|sh | s/is/his |
| 18:29.28 | kblin | dberkholz: isn't that what _life_ is about? |
| 18:29.39 | kblin | just s/next year/next time/ ? |
| 18:29.56 | scorche|sh | life! dont talk to me about *life*! |
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| 18:30.31 | kblin | :) |
| 18:32.13 | dberkholz | maybe we should start sharing more paths to failure with each other at the summit |
| 18:32.25 | dberkholz | we don't all need to repeat the same mistakes.. |
| 18:32.38 | scorche|sh | wants to go to the summit =( |
| 18:32.41 | carols | dberkholz: i think this would be good information for you all to add to the mentor manual :-) |
| 18:33.56 | ankit_frenz | which summit we all are talking about? |
| 18:34.07 | carols | ankit_frenz: the mentor summit |
| 18:34.29 | ankit_frenz | ahh..than not for me..am just a student |
| 18:34.41 | ankit_frenz | there should be a student summit as well...:P |
| 18:34.43 | dberkholz | tries to figure out how to edit the manual |
| 18:34.59 | chrisoelmueller | no 'just' in there please :) |
| 18:35.07 | praveen97uma | yes there should be |
| 18:35.21 | ankit_frenz | is sad because there is no student summit :( |
| 18:35.21 | carols | dberkholz: i think you need a booki account, but if you contact adam hyde he can help you out, if you're motivated to do it |
| 18:35.32 | dberkholz | i made an account |
| 18:35.52 | scorche|sh | ankit_frenz: you *do* know how many students there are, yes? |
| 18:35.54 | dberkholz | ah, there, it loaded propoerly that time. |
| 18:35.55 | carols | how would the students propose we run a student summit? fly in 1,115 students to google's campus? |
| 18:35.58 | dberkholz | properly* |
| 18:36.07 | ankit_frenz | scorche yes :D |
| 18:36.09 | dberkholz | carols: a humongous google+ hangout =P |
| 18:36.14 | dberkholz | test how well it scales |
| 18:36.35 | ankit_frenz | carols: to Google campus in there respective countries :) |
| 18:37.16 | scorche|sh | ankit_frenz: there have been such things, but it is arranged on a smaller scale ;) |
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| 18:37.18 | carols | ankit_frenz: you have no idea the headache you gave me considering flying 1115 people to their respective google campus. the mentor summit is hard enough. |
| 18:37.28 | dberkholz | carols: looks like anyone who makes accounts can edit the manual, fyi |
| 18:37.29 | scorche|sh | and there is no payment for students to attend, etc |
| 18:37.40 | carols | dberkholz: yeah, i think that's the intended behavior |
| 18:38.04 | ankit_frenz | carols: yes I understand...:( |
| 18:38.32 | carols | as it is the mentoring organizations can only bring two mentors from their orgs |
| 18:38.50 | carols | that's why there's gsoc meetups |
| 18:39.26 | ankit_frenz | carols: yeah.I understand |
| 18:40.09 | bloodybeet | Hmm. So this was just a heads-up mail for the final evaluation form that is still to be put online correct ? |
| 18:40.22 | bloodybeet | First it looked like we had to reply on the mail itself, imo :] |
| 18:40.32 | carols | bloodybeet: yes, all the evaluations are done in melange |
| 18:40.44 | dberkholz | you have to read carefully |
| 18:40.49 | dberkholz | "next week" in the first sentence |
| 18:41.17 | carols | dberkholz: i've given up on thinking people read my emails :-P |
| 18:41.27 | bloodybeet | i did read that sentence! |
| 18:41.30 | zgreg | I wish there were a gsoc meetup near by |
| 18:41.30 | dberkholz | well, there is a point to be had there |
| 18:41.45 | dberkholz | while gsoc has really helped individual orgs lower the barrier to entry... |
| 18:41.45 | carols | zgreg: form one! |
| 18:41.56 | bloodybeet | zgreg, where r u |
| 18:41.59 | bloodybeet | we'll meet up |
| 18:42.03 | zgreg | there's nothing in germany, even though there are probably a lot of german students (I assume so, at least) |
| 18:42.13 | dberkholz | gsoc itself has a lot of implicit assumptions that can confuse new people |
| 18:42.33 | carols | dberkholz: like? |
| 18:42.45 | Michitux | there are a lot of german meetup groups for gsoc, but I haven't seen an actual meetup zgreg |
| 18:42.51 | zgreg | btw, are there any statistics that show how students are distributed over the world? |
| 18:43.08 | zgreg | Michitux: meetup groups? where? |
| 18:43.25 | dberkholz | carols: until very recently, most information about the program was structured as a faq rather than walking people through it |
| 18:43.26 | ankit_frenz | zgreg: there was a article on GSOC blog a couple of months ago I guess |
| 18:43.50 | dberkholz | carols: even now, i think the student and mentor guides could stand to be much more prominent |
| 18:43.51 | Michitux | zgreg: http://www.meetup.com/gsoc/ |
| 18:43.53 | carols | dberkholz: walking through how? |
| 18:44.12 | carols | zgreg: http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2011/05/google-summer-of-code-where-are.html |
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| 18:44.21 | Michitux | okay, maybe it's actually not a lot zgreg |
| 18:44.54 | zgreg | hehe, gsoc seems to be kind of popular in india |
| 18:45.20 | dberkholz | carols: it's hard for me to remember a lot of the little things off the top of my head, but i get questions from new people every year. i think part of it is that some people need more repetition and emphasis of important things than usually occurs in gsoc |
| 18:45.21 | neverpanic | zgreg: Where are you? |
| 18:45.25 | zgreg | Michitux: no not really... |
| 18:45.27 | bloodybeet | wow |
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| 18:45.32 | zgreg | neverpanic: lübeck |
| 18:45.33 | bloodybeet | belgium is too small to be shown on that chart even |
| 18:45.43 | Michitux | zgreg: I thought it was a lot because karlsruhe (where I normally live currently), stuttgart which is nearby, and berlin where I'm this week are on the list |
| 18:45.44 | dberkholz | carols: the gsoc perspective seems to be that if the information is written down anywhere, then people should know it |
| 18:46.01 | neverpanic | zgreg: too far from Erlangen... |
| 18:46.02 | dberkholz | whether it's the guide, the faq, somewhere on one of the wikis related to gsoc, in the list archives, etc |
| 18:46.03 | carols | dberkholz: fair enough. if you think of anything, let me know. people tell me gsoc is confusing and then often don't offer solutions :-) i'd love to implement solutions. |
| 18:46.15 | carols | dberkholz: so less documentation? |
| 18:46.16 | neverpanic | Although I was near Berlin until this morning |
| 18:46.30 | zgreg | dberkholz: the documentation is definitely badly structured |
| 18:46.32 | dberkholz | carols: list archives are a great example of what i would call institutionalized knowledge |
| 18:46.47 | zgreg | dberkholz: you have to read and search a lot to find anything |
| 18:46.49 | dberkholz | carols: nobody's going to go back and read them, but many existing participants remember what was discussed |
| 18:46.56 | carols | dberkholz: agreed, you think there's information in the list archives that should be public? |
| 18:47.17 | zgreg | neverpanic: yeah, probably :) |
| 18:47.22 | dberkholz | not necessarily public, but at least more "in your face" to the people who need it when they need it |
| 18:47.36 | carols | dberkholz: in your face like what? on the homepage of melange? |
| 18:47.55 | neverpanic | but from what I know, there's no meetup planning going on in Germany. Might have missed it, though. |
| 18:47.56 | dberkholz | carols: i think it would be worthwhile to try and centralize information a lot more. and the guides seem like a good place to do so |
| 18:48.18 | carols | dberkholz: so then moving information from the other documents to the manuals? i'm fine with that. |
| 18:48.19 | dberkholz | so "we" just need to push people to insert useful things there |
| 18:48.26 | dberkholz | as you just were |
| 18:48.32 | carols | indeed :-) |
| 18:49.33 | dberkholz | it would be so interesting to see those "accepted students" charts per capita of CS students. |
| 18:51.02 | dberkholz | and perhaps the faq could be reorganized so it's essentially a question-based index for the manuals |
| 18:51.23 | zgreg | I think I'm the only one from my university |
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| 18:56.41 | carols | dberkholz: we have their degrees, we could list it if you were interested. |
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| 18:58.51 | dberkholz | carols: i was actually thinking CS students in each country |
| 18:59.07 | carols | yeah, we could easily break it down that way. |
| 18:59.09 | carols | i have all the data |
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| 18:59.15 | carols | just didn't think anyone was interested. |
| 18:59.27 | dberkholz | carols: i don't just mean ones who are in gsoc |
| 18:59.39 | carols | dberkholz: oooh |
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| 18:59.43 | carols | you mean something else? |
| 18:59.47 | dberkholz | say there's 5 million US students who are CS majors right now, but only 100K in sri lanka |
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| 19:00.09 | dberkholz | that means that if you live in SL, your "chances" of getting into gsoc are absurdly high |
| 19:00.20 | carols | ah, i see. |
| 19:00.26 | carols | yeah, that would be interesting data. |
| 19:01.03 | carols | especially interesting to me considering my degree is in journalism and i'm working at google in open source software :-) |
| 19:01.12 | dberkholz | also minored in journalism |
| 19:01.20 | carols | very nice |
| 19:01.24 | carols | where'd you go to school? |
| 19:01.38 | dberkholz | university of richmond (SLAC, despite the name) |
| 19:02.04 | carols | SLAC? |
| 19:02.16 | dberkholz | small liberal arts college |
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| 19:02.33 | carols | ah, i see |
| 19:03.14 | dberkholz | i recently decided to apply for a job to use all of those skills. we'll see how it goes. |
| 19:03.24 | carols | good luck! |
| 19:03.55 | dberkholz | i'm pretty selective, it's the only one i'm applying for. |
| 19:04.02 | dberkholz | since i'm in no particularly rush to leave where i'm at |
| 19:04.07 | dberkholz | -ly |
| 19:04.53 | dberkholz | i keep thinking about applying at google, just not sure what i'd want to do there. |
| 19:05.03 | carols | dberkholz: i could help you figure that out :-) |
| 19:05.48 | dberkholz | just put me in charge of the whole place and we can sort things out from there. |
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| 19:06.12 | carols | i don't know that you'd want to be in charge of the whole place... |
| 19:06.21 | dberkholz | ok, we can skip the adwords folks |
| 19:06.26 | carols | exactly. |
| 19:06.54 | dberkholz | otherwise we'd actually have to think about making money |
| 19:07.02 | dberkholz | the horrir. |
| 19:07.08 | dberkholz | sigh, i need a new keyboard |
| 19:08.48 | dberkholz | i'm kind of weird, because i like technical stuff but i'm also really into the whole leadership/management thing. |
| 19:09.07 | dberkholz | hard to find something that's a good fit for that, and that i'm actually qualified for |
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| 19:09.24 | luizribeiro | that's awesome. and kind of rare, I think. |
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| 19:09.43 | dberkholz | probably pretty common among gsoc org admins, though =D |
| 19:09.47 | luizribeiro | sure |
| 19:09.54 | carols | dberkholz: we could have a more in-depth conversation about it if you're actually not being tongue-in-cheek. i can think of a couple roles that fit the criteria of what you're talking about :-) |
| 19:10.11 | dberkholz | carols: perfectly serious |
| 19:10.30 | carols | dberkholz: then send me an email and a copy of your resume and we'll talk |
| 19:11.21 | dberkholz | carols: i've got many résumés customized for different roles, so perhaps you could tell me what you had in mind first |
| 19:12.26 | carols | well, we have a couple tech lead positions available in the OSPO which would probably suit you nicely, there's also tech lead roles in specific teams or offices i could point out if you have location requirements |
| 19:13.12 | dberkholz | i don't have a traditional background in CS, so i'm a little sketchy on the old-school algorithms that they interview on |
| 19:13.19 | dberkholz | suppose it could always be learned |
| 19:13.34 | carols | dberkholz: indeed. that's the sort of thing you read a book for before the interviews to brush up on |
| 19:14.48 | dberkholz | carols: hmm, i've probably already got a résumé in your system that's fairly suitable for that, if you have access to it |
| 19:15.13 | carols | dberkholz: um, probably not. can you send me another copy? our applicant tracking system is a bit wonky |
| 19:15.18 | dberkholz | lol |
| 19:15.35 | carols | yeah, i completely agree. |
| 19:17.39 | dberkholz | i'll pull a decent one together and send it over. i already got some interest from SRE and SW recruiters there, so hopefully i don't confuse the system with too many different versions. |
| 19:19.05 | carols | awesome, thanks |
| 19:19.07 | carols | :-) |
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| 20:10.33 | kblin | dberkholz: given how often some google recruiters manage to completely miss all the open source stuff I'm doing, I'm not surprised their tracking system is wonky as well :) |
| 20:12.00 | kblin | then again, I did get job offers from microsoft, who never got back to me after I asked if they'd give me a contract that'd allow me to keep working on the open source software projects I'm involved with |
| 20:12.16 | kblin | so I guess their system is wonky as well :) |
| 20:12.16 | |Kev| | luizribeiro: I'm not sure it's all that rare, really. Less common than 'pure' techies, but there's a few of us around. |
| 20:12.34 | |Kev| | (I've degree-level quals in both management and compsci) |
| 20:12.44 | scorche|sh | kblin: well, recruiters are often wholly separate bits from the people who do acual work ;) |
| 20:13.01 | kblin | scorche|sh: probably they outsource to the same company ;) |
| 20:13.30 | kblin | "Hi, this is Greg from <COMPANY NAME>" |
| 20:14.14 | kblin | at least they stopped using "Hello from Google!!!" as their subject :) |
| 20:14.31 | |Kev| | I get the feeling you've got rather a lot more of these than I have :) |
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| 20:15.08 | kblin | got better a while ago, actually |
| 20:15.26 | kblin | I guess the economy crisis helped |
| 20:15.54 | luizribeiro | |Kev|: yeap, but working with managers that don't know much about software development and real computer science is pretty common around here in Brazil, though :( |
| 20:16.02 | kblin | not that I _want_ another job before finishing my PhD, so I'm good |
| 20:16.38 | kblin | luizribeiro: given that I know a bunch of computer scientists without a clue about software development, I'm not surprised |
| 20:16.39 | |Kev| | luizribeiro: Our CEO (co-)invented LDAP. I think myself quite lucky. |
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| 20:17.09 | kblin | |Kev|: ask him why they didn't think about proper locking? ;) |
| 20:17.14 | |Kev| | Heh. |
| 20:17.15 | luizribeiro | kblin: indeed, that is also a problem :) |
| 20:17.41 | dberkholz | kblin: they did? i got one in january with that subject |
| 20:17.55 | |Kev| | kblin: I know nothing (almost) about either LDAP or X.500, I leave the directory stuff to other people. |
| 20:18.02 | kblin | dberkholz: my last one was pretty targetted |
| 20:18.15 | dberkholz | kblin: "Hello to Kai!"? |
| 20:18.56 | kblin | dberkholz: no, but they noticed I had given a couple of talk on embedded stuff and asked me if I wanted to play with more of that |
| 20:19.06 | kblin | +s there somewhere |
| 20:19.18 | kblin | |Kev|: smart move, actually |
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| 20:20.23 | |Kev| | I have even less to do with our X.400/SMTP team :) |
| 20:20.29 | kblin | arguably, I've much more skills in bitching about software design than I have in software design |
| 20:20.42 | kblin | aw, smtp is kind of cute |
| 20:20.58 | |Kev| | We pretty much only do SMTP as a gateway onto X.400, though. |
| 20:21.18 | |Kev| | We're pretty big on this modern 1980s technology :D |
| 20:21.36 | kblin | :) |
| 20:21.54 | |Kev| | I'll stick with (mostly) the XMPP stuff. A little more my era :) |
| 20:22.07 | kblin | make it web 2.0 by adding a "repost this on twitter" |
| 20:22.10 | kblin | it's easy |
| 20:23.05 | |Kev| | I was going to give a talk on how XMPP is The Web 3.0 at FOSDEM, and then got ill a couple of days before, annoyingly. |
| 20:23.19 | |Kev| | Well, why XMPP was the Cloud 2.0, actually. |
| 20:23.28 | |Kev| | Every so slightly tongue-in-cheek. |
| 20:23.37 | kblin | you don't say.. |
| 20:24.22 | kblin | hmm, somehow I'm afraid my plan to step through this svn repository one revision at a time is going to take ages |
| 20:24.38 | |Kev| | Why on Earth would you want to do a silly thing like that? :) |
| 20:25.05 | dberkholz | carols: sent |
| 20:25.12 | carols | dberkholz: thanks! |
| 20:25.16 | kblin | I've got a tool that tracks media files in an svn repo |
| 20:25.24 | kblin | and sometimes updates seem to break my database |
| 20:25.35 | kblin | trying to figure out how to reproduce this |
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| 20:27.50 | |Kev| | Hrmm. Mentors summit. |
| 20:27.57 | |Kev| | Guess I need to decide stuff soonish. |
| 20:28.47 | carols | |Kev|: already 92 people showing up, looks like it will be a big year :-) |
| 20:28.58 | |Kev| | I've yet to turn up to one. |
| 20:29.08 | carols | might be the year to do it :-) |
| 20:29.11 | |Kev| | Yeah. |
| 20:29.22 | |Kev| | I really don't like travelling much, which usually puts me off. |
| 20:30.05 | kblin | durn, what was the deadline for booking that hotel again? |
| 20:30.53 | |Kev| | 10th Sept. |
| 20:30.57 | carols | kblin: 10 sept |
| 20:31.31 | kblin | thanks |
| 20:31.41 | kblin | adds to his calendar |
| 20:31.53 | kblin | too much travelling to plan recently |
| 20:32.59 | carols | yw |
| 20:33.10 | carols | it'll be good to see everyone at the summit this year :-) |
| 20:33.15 | carols | is looking forward to it |
| 20:33.31 | dberkholz | carols: just out of curiosity, is the hotel deadline also the "waitlist opening" deadline? |
| 20:33.41 | carols | dberkholz: yes, indeed it is. |
| 20:33.45 | dberkholz | wasn't entirely clear to me |
| 20:33.54 | carols | we're holding to see how many people register by then |
| 20:34.05 | dberkholz | seems like that could be even earlier in the future, then |
| 20:34.18 | dberkholz | no particular reason people need longer than a month to sort things out |
| 20:34.24 | carols | dberkholz: i might open it earlier this year if i'm feeling generous :-) |
| 20:34.39 | dberkholz | i thought you always felt that way |
| 20:34.54 | |Kev| | dberkholz: General incompetence and indecision, at least for me :) |
| 20:35.01 | carols | dberkholz: depends on if people have been nice on the mailing list recently :-) |
| 20:36.02 | dberkholz | carols: just fyi, the other spot is http://redmonk.com/jobs/ |
| 20:37.08 | carols | dberkholz: cool, thanks |
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| 20:47.21 | carols | dberkholz: pm? |
| 20:47.38 | dberkholz | carols: sure |
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| 20:53.02 | downeym | dberkholz: we have quite the competition for mentor summit attendees this year, which was a pleasant surprise |
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| 22:00.03 | dberkholz | downeym: very cool. you gonna make it, then? |
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| 22:05.36 | downeym | dberkholz: yeah will be there, albeit dragging from an africa trip the week before |
| 22:05.47 | downeym | dberkholz: nothing caffeine won't fix |
| 22:05.52 | dberkholz | yeah, i'm doing weird contortions to make my trips work too |
| 22:06.07 | dberkholz | i might be flying to SJC in the middle of another round trip elsewhere |
| 22:06.10 | downeym | heh |
| 22:06.33 | downeym | my boss just did the 26-hour trip from kenya to SJC for sci foo and was really feeling the jet lag :) |
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