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| 00:02.46 | pygi | wolfb: poke |
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| 00:27.42 | *** topic/#gsoc is Welcome to Google Summer of Code 2011! We are accepting applications for mentoring organizations until 11 March at 23:00 UTC: http://goo.gl/CnhKl Please read the FAQs - http://goo.gl/Up2Qf and the Timeline - http://goo.gl/0lYPz for more info. |
| 00:30.19 | ojwb | tweaked the text there |
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| 00:50.02 | thebolt | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:53.49 | nano- | Hey, I accidentaly double-tapped my mouse and submited my orgs application twice :-) |
| 00:53.52 | nano- | Please advice. |
| 00:54.10 | mayanks43 | ask on #melange |
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| 00:56.40 | nano- | mayanks43: thanks. |
| 01:05.55 | ojwb | nano-: you can resubmit it up until the deadline (which allows you to update fields, etc) so I doubt clicking submit twice is an issue |
| 01:06.27 | nano- | ok.. because I have two of the same application in my list of applications :) |
| 01:06.39 | nano- | oh well.. nevermind then. |
| 01:07.02 | ojwb | nano-: hmm, that's suspect |
| 01:07.36 | ojwb | I guess two appengine processes checked it was there and then added it |
| 01:07.44 | ojwb | and there's a race/lack of locking in melange |
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| 04:20.43 | The_Tick | http://boredzo.org/blog/archives/2011-03-08/mentoring |
| 04:20.46 | The_Tick | oh hey ChipX86 |
| 04:20.49 | ChipX86 | hey |
| 04:20.53 | ChipX86 | how goes? |
| 04:21.02 | The_Tick | going good |
| 04:21.05 | The_Tick | long time :) |
| 04:21.07 | ChipX86 | yeah :) |
| 04:21.14 | The_Tick | still at v? |
| 04:21.17 | ChipX86 | yep |
| 04:21.20 | The_Tick | neat |
| 04:21.22 | ChipX86 | and recently started a company on the side |
| 04:21.36 | ChipX86 | so, busy busy |
| 04:21.40 | ChipX86 | what are you up to these days? |
| 04:23.13 | The_Tick | working infosec |
| 04:23.22 | The_Tick | using lots of esxi |
| 04:23.36 | The_Tick | random other items |
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| 08:54.53 | wolfb | pygi: hey |
| 08:55.23 | pygi | wolfb: remind me, are you geowolf? :P |
| 08:55.27 | pygi | I obviously forgot the new nick :D |
| 08:56.35 | aghisla | waves at wolfb |
| 09:05.42 | wolfb | pygi I'm _wolf_ AKA OSGeo_Wolf |
| 09:05.50 | wolfb | hey aghisla! :D |
| 09:05.51 | pygi | goodie :p |
| 09:05.54 | pygi | then I know you :D |
| 09:06.19 | EOF-sensei | need to fix kernel issues handling my keypad |
| 09:07.38 | EOF-sensei | with a little luck, reverting the i8042 driver will fix EVERYTHING |
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| 09:09.19 | wolfb | gives a bowl full of shamrocks to EOF-sensei |
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| 09:15.02 | kai | wolfb: you on vacation right now? :) |
| 09:15.33 | wolfb | kai, nope. Working |
| 09:15.45 | wolfb | how so? |
| 09:15.48 | kai | just surprised because you're not behind the nat :) |
| 09:15.59 | wolfb | I'm WFH |
| 09:16.14 | kai | ah |
| 09:16.32 | wolfb | maybe I should nick myself |
| 09:19.18 | thebolt | hi _wolf_ , kai |
| 09:19.49 | _wolf_ | hey thebolt! :) How's it going? |
| 09:20.18 | kai | hey thebolt |
| 09:20.39 | _wolf_ | kai: you too, how's life? |
| 09:21.17 | MatthewWilkes | thebolt! kai! |
| 09:21.51 | kai | _wolf_: busy with my phd, but having a lot of fun doing so :) |
| 09:22.01 | kai | hey MatthewWilkes.. |
| 09:22.30 | _wolf_ | nice! |
| 09:23.00 | _wolf_ | usually people are whining over their PHDs..glad to hear someone is enjoying it :) |
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| 09:23.35 | |Kev| | I enjoyed mine. |
| 09:23.46 | |Kev| | Apart from the 5 weeks in which I wrote my thesis at the end, but the rest was fun :) |
| 09:25.00 | thebolt | _wolf_: life is terribly nice right now |
| 09:26.00 | _wolf_ | glad to hear thebolt :) |
| 09:27.12 | kai | |Kev|: with any luck I can get enough papers out during my phd to keep the amount of things I need to write into my thesis to a minimum |
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| 09:28.06 | |Kev| | kai: Right, I had papers. Still, I would recommend that "Start writing 'the thesis' and finish within 5 weeks" is not a model to emulate :) |
| 09:28.19 | |Kev| | Even if copy/paste and cleanup is making up a significant body. |
| 09:30.00 | kai | |Kev|: so the way it works here is that if I get three papers done during my phd time, all I need to write is an introduction explaining why these papers are full on the course of my thesis work |
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| 09:30.31 | kai | with any luck, I'll have two papers in soon, so all I need is a third paper where I'm first author |
| 09:30.45 | kai | with two years to go, this sounds very doable |
| 09:31.04 | |Kev| | :o |
| 09:31.33 | |Kev| | That sounds somewhat less hassle. |
| 09:31.45 | kai | yeah |
| 09:31.57 | thebolt | _wolf_: how about you? what's going on in helsinki these days? |
| 09:32.19 | kai | of course coming up with a conclusive story is a bit harder, so preparing the defence presentation might be a bit more tricky |
| 09:32.45 | |Kev| | Ah, you're somewhere with presentations? |
| 09:33.59 | |Kev| | The only time I've heard of someone having to do a presentation where they were, it was just a formality and the PhD was already a done deal (unlike here, where the defense is potentially quite unpleasant). How's it work for you? |
| 09:34.00 | kai | yeah, starting from this semester |
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| 09:34.08 | |Kev| | (I don't know where you're based) |
| 09:34.21 | kai | oh, right. freenode cloak.. |
| 09:34.31 | kai | Tübingen, Germany |
| 09:34.42 | |Kev| | Well, that doesn't tell you much anyway. My shell's in the States, I'm in the UK :) |
| 09:34.45 | |Kev| | Ah. |
| 09:35.29 | kai | I think the presentation does count 25% of the final grade, I've never heard about anybody actually failing to get a phd for a messed up defence |
| 09:36.10 | |Kev| | Sounds significantly different. |
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| 09:37.40 | kai | the nice part about the new presentation defence is that you can narrow down the questions to pretty much your topic |
| 09:37.57 | pygi | ma |
| 09:37.58 | pygi | k |
| 09:38.04 | _wolf_ | thebolt: the snow's melting, but I'm also moving to Zurich... but still haven't found an apartment |
| 09:38.06 | kai | and of course it's highly unlikely that anybody else will have as much clue as you have in your thesis topic |
| 09:38.07 | pygi | kai: I heard a guy get kicked out of PhD program for that :P |
| 09:38.19 | pygi | so yea, experiences vary :p |
| 09:39.02 | |Kev| | kai: Well, over here defense is one internal examiner, one external examiner, and the external must be an expert (e.g. mine was the editor of the most relevant journal in the field). |
| 09:39.24 | |Kev| | So the chances of getting away from probing questions are nearly nil. |
| 09:39.37 | thebolt | _wolf_: nice :) one of my good friends from school is in zurich now, doing a phd at eth.. what will you do there? |
| 09:39.56 | kai | thebolt: googling |
| 09:39.59 | kai | it's a nice office |
| 09:40.17 | kai | with cheese fondue in the cantina |
| 09:40.25 | thebolt | haha, nice : |
| 09:40.41 | aghisla | cheese fondue? who told cheese fondue? |
| 09:41.07 | kai | |Kev|: we have five examiners, and of course you're supposed to get experts. I'm pretty sure they'll notice if you talk complete rubbish |
| 09:41.12 | |Kev| | I wonder at what point we end up so far off topic we have to start threatening ourselves? :) |
| 09:41.35 | pygi | |Kev|: Never, kai is our protector |
| 09:41.36 | pygi | ! |
| 09:41.37 | |Kev| | kai: but it's not a multi-hour affair of them grilling you over every aspect of your thesis, right? |
| 09:41.38 | _wolf_ | thebolt: kai's right |
| 09:42.25 | kai | |Kev|: no, not really. universities get budget credits for every phd they hand out, they'd be silly to make this too hard.. |
| 09:42.32 | thebolt | _wolf_: nice, congrats |
| 09:42.50 | kai | |Kev|: heck, our former minister of defence copied 62% of his thesis and even passed with the best grade ;) |
| 09:42.53 | thebolt | kai: in germany, who is opposing/reviewing you when you do your defence? |
| 09:43.03 | |Kev| | kai: but but but...I feel cheated :) |
| 09:43.43 | _wolf_ | thanks thebolt! :) We had some hotshot here in .fi who had copied 100%, and they noticed it too late IIRC |
| 09:43.52 | _wolf_ | so he got to keep his PhD |
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| 09:44.37 | aghisla | will cite Ike Antkare in her PhD thesis |
| 09:45.04 | |Kev| | I mentioned chocolate brownies in my thesis (on multi-objective simulated annealing) |
| 09:45.11 | aghisla | :D |
| 09:45.13 | |Kev| | I felt that was an achievement :) |
| 09:45.23 | aghisla | can I cite your thesis? |
| 09:45.25 | thebolt | kai: in sweden it is an expert in the field from outside uni who is the main reviewer.. usually a professor at some other university or a higher scientist at some big company |
| 09:45.30 | |Kev| | (I acknowledged my now-wife for making the best chocolate brownies on Earth) |
| 09:45.35 | thebolt | :) |
| 09:45.46 | |Kev| | Cite away :) |
| 09:46.46 | rishi | _wolf_: Are you from some Finnish university? |
| 09:47.30 | _wolf_ | rishi, several actually :P but I'm not officially connected to anything except a masters student |
| 09:47.50 | rishi | _wolf_: :-) |
| 09:48.02 | rishi | _wolf_: May I ask which one? I am doing my masters from Helsinki. |
| 09:48.35 | kai | thebolt: well, every thesis needs two supervisors. one is my professor, one is an expert from outside of the department |
| 09:48.36 | thebolt | cited a book published in 500BC in his master thesis.. |
| 09:48.39 | _wolf_ | rishi: I'm "studying" geoinformatics at the Aalto University, school of technology |
| 09:48.52 | thebolt | kai: well, that is supervisors.. |
| 09:48.52 | kai | thebolt: for the defense, there's three more people |
| 09:48.56 | thebolt | okay |
| 09:49.16 | _wolf_ | rishi: study time has been 0, since I'm moving away and the new work is taking up so much time |
| 09:49.27 | kai | there's no rule against asking people from the same university |
| 09:49.43 | rishi | _wolf_: Ah! I am working for Aalto, but never actually go there. |
| 09:49.46 | rishi | :-) |
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| 09:50.21 | thebolt | in sweden you have a board of hm, think it is three or five people who will decide if you pass.. but during the presentation there is one (in earlier times it was 3) epople who will review, "rebuke", question etc your results and make you actually defend them ;) |
| 09:51.07 | _wolf_ | rishi: LOL Working remotely then? |
| 09:51.25 | kai | _wolf_: well, here, if people can prove the thesis was faked, the university can take back the doctorate again |
| 09:52.19 | kai | thebolt: we used to have this in the olden days, but in the 68 revolts this was turned over |
| 09:52.20 | rishi | _wolf_: No. There is this research institute run by Aalto and University of Helsinki. |
| 09:52.31 | kai | we don't have fancy robes or hats anymore either |
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| 09:52.59 | thebolt | kai: heh ok, no robes, but you do get a hat |
| 09:53.08 | rishi | _wolf_: I am a research assistant and most of the folks are University of Helsinki people (including me), even though Aalto pays my salary. |
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| 09:53.24 | _wolf_ | kai: They tried, but it turned out that the official time to complain was overdue |
| 09:53.44 | kai | _wolf_: ah, here it's not limited |
| 09:53.52 | _wolf_ | rishi: heh, funny setup :) |
| 09:54.17 | _wolf_ | kai: I'm not 100% sure, but that was the impression I got from the media |
| 09:54.40 | _wolf_ | kai: they might have misunderstood, and I misunderstood them |
| 09:55.14 | _wolf_ | I would imagine that it's stupid to have a time limit |
| 09:55.44 | _wolf_ | since plagiarism is plagiarism, no matter how long ago |
| 09:55.48 | kai | yeah |
| 09:56.19 | _wolf_ | It might have been that they stripped him of his title, but he didn't get fired from office... I'd have to google it |
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| 09:59.46 | kai | we actually managed to get enough media pressure going that this guy resigned |
| 10:00.15 | kai | my bet is he'll lay low for a year or two and then return when most of the voters have forgotten that he's a liar and fraud |
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| 10:03.39 | _wolf_ | Just read that they have developed some software which detects plagiarism here. Will release it as open source |
| 10:04.26 | gevaerts | Let's hope it won't flag too many papers as copies from their own drafts :) |
| 10:04.45 | |Kev| | Do a Levenshtien on the two documents, and report low values? :D |
| 10:04.55 | |Kev| | s/ie/ei/ |
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| 10:05.57 | c0smikdebris | hey. what role does google play in choosing students? |
| 10:06.53 | |Kev| | c0smikdebris: Essentially none. |
| 10:07.14 | |Kev| | Well, Google decides how many slots each org gets. How the org uses them is largely up to the org. |
| 10:07.19 | c0smikdebris | |Kev| so it completely depends on the mentoring org? |
| 10:08.10 | rishi | _wolf_: So you are with which organization? |
| 10:08.18 | rishi | As in GSoC organization. |
| 10:08.44 | c0smikdebris | also, is it alright to ask a mentoring organization how many applications they have received? |
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| 10:09.10 | |Kev| | You can ask whatever you want. Whether they'll reply is another matter. |
| 10:09.14 | thebolt | _wolf_: that is already used at the uni went to |
| 10:09.44 | thebolt | _wolf_: when you submit a homework in many courses it is sent to a nation-wide system (private i think) that checks it against a really big database of previous works and also online sources |
| 10:09.54 | kai | _wolf_: I think you can just use the BLAST gene and protein alignment tools in wide use in bioinformatics |
| 10:10.03 | kai | the hard part is collecting the database |
| 10:10.21 | _wolf_ | rishi: I'm with OSGeo |
| 10:11.06 | kai | thebolt: we had that for programming assignments, within the semester |
| 10:11.17 | kai | thebolt: it was utterly easy to fool :) |
| 10:11.46 | kai | as in "change a for-loop to a while-loop and you're good" |
| 10:11.49 | _wolf_ | kai, cool. Yeah BLAST is more or less a string matcher IIRC (It's almost 10 years since I played with it) |
| 10:12.41 | _wolf_ | kai, that's sad... |
| 10:12.42 | kai | _wolf_: yeah. you probably want to ditch the subsitution scores for just an equal scoring, but other than that you don't even have to fiddle with the software much |
| 10:13.12 | kai | the standard amino acid substitution probabilities don't make much sense for a thesis text :) |
| 10:13.22 | _wolf_ | no, not really XD |
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| 12:32.15 | mimi | hello |
| 12:32.22 | |Kev| | Hello. |
| 12:33.08 | mimi | there is so many people and no one is talking.. |
| 12:33.33 | gevaerts | We've been here a long time, and everything worth saying has been said |
| 12:33.48 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Until the next time someone mentions cookies or cakes. |
| 12:33.53 | MatthewWilkes | or gin |
| 12:35.00 | ojwb | is in busier channels where nobody is talking |
| 12:35.27 | gevaerts | ojwb: but how do you define "busy"? |
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| 12:35.45 | ojwb | was just thinking that was a poor choice of word |
| 12:35.48 | ojwb | more populous |
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| 12:36.05 | |Kev| | gevaerts: how long the queues to get on the rides are? |
| 12:36.24 | gevaerts | Oh, right. That makes sense! |
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| 12:40.31 | pygi | |Kev|: what about cocoa? |
| 12:40.52 | pygi | cookies are worthless without cocoa! |
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| 12:40.59 | |Kev| | Necessary now Carbon is deprecated. |
| 12:42.10 | aghisla | who mentioned food? |
| 12:42.16 | mlankhorst | not me |
| 12:42.31 | gevaerts | neither |
| 12:42.38 | pygi | I did! |
| 12:43.05 | aghisla | has got highlight on words about food |
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| 12:59.08 | bastiao | hi there |
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| 13:02.57 | MatthewWilkes | aghisla: I have it on beer |
| 13:03.16 | aghisla | :) |
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| 13:14.07 | _wolf_ | pygi: or milk, but cocoa is milk+additive XD |
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| 13:17.00 | BioNukularAntrax | . |
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| 14:13.31 | bear | did something happen to cause the mentoring org application to zero-out? our application, which I filled out last week, is oddly blank now |
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| 14:14.48 | ojwb | bear: sounds bad - I'd ask on #melange |
| 14:15.17 | bear | yea, very bad and very annoyting |
| 14:15.21 | bear | goes over to #melange |
| 14:16.36 | ojwb | hmm, well mine's OK, so it's not affected all applications |
| 14:17.11 | |Kev| | I'm rather glad I offered to check over our app, or we wouldn't have noticed. |
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| 14:17.59 | bear | naa - I see my problem |
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| 14:18.09 | |Kev| | Good good. |
| 14:18.12 | bear | you can't view/edit from the "Apply to be an Org" item |
| 14:18.19 | |Kev| | You hit 'new application' instead of looking at the old one? :) |
| 14:18.24 | bear | that pulls up a blank form every time |
| 14:18.30 | bear | :P |
| 14:18.41 | |Kev| | Maybe I should have asked that first :D |
| 14:18.47 | bear | that's what I get for trying to become a "morning person" |
| 14:19.04 | gevaerts | I hope you've learned your lesson :) |
| 14:19.15 | gevaerts | being a morning person isn't a good idea! |
| 14:19.27 | bear | yea, back to the proper hours for a dev for me |
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| 17:12.49 | ThomasWaldmann | slightly off-topic, but is there some student from india who knows .po files (translation) and could do us a favour? |
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| 17:13.41 | ThomasWaldmann | http://master19.moinmo.in/MoinI18n/hi < this is a obviously defect .po, but I don't speak hindi, so i can't fix that |
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| 17:19.08 | andre__ | ThomasWaldmann, 115:55: remove the useless " in the middle of a msgstr |
| 17:19.26 | andre__ | 185: make the " sign in the strings two ' |
| 17:19.34 | andre__ | and so on |
| 17:19.41 | andre__ | no need for speaking hindi. |
| 17:19.54 | andre__ | all broken syntax instead. |
| 17:20.10 | ThomasWaldmann | well, a review by a native speaker would be also ok :) |
| 17:20.38 | andre__ | ThomasWaldmann, yeah, but you asked for repairing the brokenness here, not for the sugar on top ;-) |
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| 17:21.58 | ThomasWaldmann | andre__: i tried fixing it myself, but while doing it somehow felt that better someone else should do that |
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| 17:27.06 | kefletcher | I am trying to figure out whether we can list visual design and UX experience for students on projects that will need design and code? |
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| 17:28.25 | |Kev| | kefletcher: Why would you not be able to? |
| 17:29.08 | kefletcher | The instructions are really adamant about no documentation, and we want to make sure that user workflow design can be included. |
| 17:29.27 | |Kev| | I *believe* it's adamant about no documentation projects. |
| 17:29.39 | |Kev| | Not that students can't document what they're doing. |
| 17:29.57 | |Kev| | Producing mockups, or whatever, as part of a coding project is, as far as I know, entirely acceptable. |
| 17:30.01 | kefletcher | A second round question would be whether we could select a couple of students to work together on a project, one of which had more visual design and one of which had more coding experience. |
| 17:30.07 | |Kev| | No. |
| 17:30.20 | |Kev| | You can't have multi-student projects. |
| 17:31.06 | kefletcher | OK -- So that clears everything up, then. We will include those skills as good to have, but not pair anyone. |
| 17:31.15 | kefletcher | Thank you for the help. |
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| 17:31.48 | |Kev| | Note: |
| 17:31.53 | |Kev| | I am not a Googler :) |
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| 17:33.14 | gevaerts | kefletcher: you always have to take into account that student can drop out at any time. If another student's project would get in serious trouble because of that, you should redesign the projects. I believe that that's one of the main reasons for this rule |
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| 17:34.20 | kefletcher | Thanks @Kef @gevaerts |
| 17:34.30 | |Kev| | yw |
| 17:35.20 | mlankhorst | twitter :) |
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| 17:36.21 | kefletcher | yes -- multiple conventions -- trying to keep them straight. cheers. |
| 17:36.52 | kefletcher | And of couse I mean Kev rather than kef (which is my usual nickname) |
| 17:37.22 | gevaerts | You might even mean |Kev| rather than Kev :) |
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| 17:46.15 | MatthewWilkes | Was trying to work out who had sent me a package |
| 17:46.22 | MatthewWilkes | then got it, gci tshirt and sticker |
| 17:46.22 | MatthewWilkes | Yay |
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| 17:52.36 | raulk3790 | Any KDE project takers for gsoc ? |
| 17:53.36 | aakriti_ | raulk3790: yeah. You too? |
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| 17:54.37 | raulk3790 | yeah , interested in KATE as well as digikam |
| 17:55.39 | MatthewWilkes | !next |
| 17:55.40 | socinfo | MatthewWilkes: "next" is 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 11 - Mentoring organization application deadline |
| 17:56.11 | raulk3790 | aakriti_ : Done gsoc before or is this the first time ? |
| 17:56.25 | aakriti_ | raulk3790: First time. Yours? |
| 17:57.14 | raulk3790 | aakriti_ : same here , hav u contributed to KDE in any manner |
| 17:57.25 | aakriti_ | raulk3790: No. |
| 17:57.58 | raulk3790 | aakriti_ : So vat project r u planning to take up ? |
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| 17:58.27 | aakriti_ | raulk3790: Interested in Calligra. |
| 17:58.59 | raulk3790 | aakriti_ : Are u attending the KDE conf ? |
| 17:59.20 | kblin | ack |
| 17:59.26 | aakriti_ | raulk3790: No. I have exams. You in BLR right now at the conf? |
| 17:59.46 | raulk3790 | aakriti_ : yeah .. |
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| 18:05.10 | raulk3790 | Can we submit our proposals for more than 1 organization |
| 18:05.50 | dberkholz | yep, you can apply to more than 1 organization |
| 18:06.10 | raulk3790 | what if both are accepted ? |
| 18:06.22 | gevaerts | That won't happen |
| 18:06.31 | dberkholz | you'll work that out with both of them. there's a duplicate-resolution meeting |
| 18:06.50 | raulk3790 | thanks |
| 18:06.58 | dberkholz | raulk3790: assuming you're talking about applying as a student, right? |
| 18:07.03 | gevaerts | Projects are only officially accepted *after* all that |
| 18:07.16 | raulk3790 | absolutely correct dberkholz |
| 18:07.51 | dberkholz | this friday is also the deadline for organizations to apply, so it's easy for us to get confused about questions like that |
| 18:09.19 | raulk3790 | Selection of an idea should b done after 18th of march or can we get in touch with organizations like KDE GNOME who have already put up their idea list |
| 18:09.36 | _Samo | does anybody have a link to the mentor's guide? |
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| 18:10.38 | dberkholz | raulk3790: i'd get in touch now and pick a few ideas from different organizations |
| 18:10.56 | gevaerts | raulk3790: you can (and should) get in touch as soon as possible. Keep in mind that *no* organisation is sure of participation at this time though |
| 18:10.59 | dberkholz | that way you have some insurance in case one of them doesn't get in |
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| 18:13.30 | gevaerts | Oh, and don't *just* get in touch. Do things like e.g. fixing bugs. |
| 18:13.51 | |Kev| | Of course, that only works if the project you're applying to has bugs ;) |
| 18:13.59 | gevaerts | Or add features :) |
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| 18:14.07 | |Kev| | :D |
| 18:14.44 | gevaerts | must be careful to not divulge the secret that gsoc isn't about the code produced during the official coding period, it's about the code produced by students trying to impress organisations in order to get accepted :) |
| 18:15.02 | |Kev| | Quite. |
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| 18:22.51 | Triskelios | can I get a confirmation that "If accepted, would this be your first year participating in GSoC?" question on the organisation application refers to the organisation as a whole? (since we have mentors/admins who were previous participants) |
| 18:23.12 | |Kev| | It is an application for the org, I believe the questions all apply to the org. |
| 18:23.20 | |Kev| | You could wait until carols appears, though. |
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| 18:25.44 | codestr0m | Triskelios: it seems clear to me that illumos/openindiana would be first year |
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| 18:29.04 | Triskelios | codestr0m: just want to make sure I'm interpreting the question correctly, since we're citing Garrett's previous mentoring experience for NetBSD |
| 18:29.12 | Triskelios | codestr0m: is PathScale applying? |
| 18:29.25 | codestr0m | Triskelios: yes |
| 18:29.37 | Triskelios | how many subprojects do you have? |
| 18:29.42 | codestr0m | , but nothing to do with opensolaris |
| 18:29.47 | codestr0m | 3 |
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| 18:49.31 | LetterRip | hi i have FAQ question that hopefully I might be able to get clarified |
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| 18:50.59 | LetterRip | the libmv is a motion capture library that would like to apply for GSoC and is one we would like to vouch for |
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| 18:51.38 | LetterRip | one of their volunteers on the project works at google although he will not be the mentor, nor will he be the one doing the application |
| 18:52.24 | codestr0m | thinks libmv is a vector version of math libraries |
| 18:52.24 | LetterRip | so is the fact that a volunteer on the project from google exculsionary? |
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| 18:52.57 | codestr0m | LetterRip: why wouldn't the google vouche for the project instead? |
| 18:53.07 | LetterRip | cdoestr0m it is not google related |
| 18:53.26 | LetterRip | well libmv is a math library for motion tracking |
| 18:53.35 | LetterRip | anywho orthogonal to the conversation |
| 18:53.48 | LetterRip | codestr0m: he is not volunteering on it as part of google |
| 18:54.00 | LetterRip | he became active in the project before he was employed by google |
| 18:54.25 | LetterRip | i assume since there are google employees volunteering with other projects taht google supports it should be ok |
| 18:54.38 | LetterRip | but someone brought it up so i thought i'd seek clarification |
| 18:56.44 | gevaerts | LetterRip: I suspect it's fine, but ask carols to be sure |
| 18:57.11 | LetterRip | gevaerts: yeppers |
| 18:57.55 | LetterRip | for some bizarre reason wanted to spell carols name with a k and wasn't finding it in the list of nicks :) |
| 18:58.19 | EOF-sensei | hmm |
| 18:58.24 | gevaerts | Does the c help there now? :) |
| 18:58.58 | LetterRip | since she isn't in channel it doesn't right now :) |
| 18:59.43 | gevaerts | One of our potential mentors wanted to ask the same actually, only he would be a mentor |
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| 19:05.07 | EOF-sensei | hehehehe |
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| 19:06.37 | ankush_ | LetterRip, you can post your query on the gsoc-mailing list. |
| 19:06.52 | LetterRip | ankush_: yep that is my likely next step |
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| 19:15.56 | kblin | LetterRip: googlers working on a project is no reason the project won't be accepted |
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| 19:16.19 | kblin | the fact that jeremy allison works on samba for google never affected our gsoc application |
| 19:17.05 | gevaerts | In fact, the Google Open Source Programs Office participates as an organisation |
| 19:17.44 | LetterRip | right - the language of the FAQ though isn't particularly clear - it seems like it might exclude projects with a googler |
| 19:17.54 | kblin | huh? url? |
| 19:18.51 | LetterRip | oh looks like someone misquoted and i didn't verify - doh! |
| 19:19.12 | LetterRip | it looks like the quote someone gave me applied to the student side |
| 19:19.24 | kblin | ah, that'd be the case |
| 19:19.54 | kblin | you can't do gsoc as a student if you're interning for google |
| 19:20.23 | kblin | of course you can't really do gsoc as a student if you're interning elsewhere either |
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| 20:09.50 | ahel | !next |
| 20:09.51 | socinfo | ahel: "next" is 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 11 - Mentoring organization application deadline |
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| 21:23.55 | oy | will Google reduce slots assigned in recent years by joining a Umbrella Org? |
| 21:24.56 | oy | we had three last year, and it would be a pitty for us, if we just have only one remained. |
| 21:25.42 | gevaerts | I'd expect that that is between you and the umbrella you join |
| 21:26.07 | |Kev| | oy: Slots are, roughly, determined by the number of applications the org gets. |
| 21:26.21 | |Kev| | How the org distributes them among its projects, if an umbrella, is up to the org. |
| 21:26.39 | oy | my question is more, will the Google team automatically reduce slots |
| 21:26.50 | |Kev| | See above. |
| 21:27.04 | gevaerts | Google doesn't actually technically know about you any more |
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| 21:28.26 | oy | 've got it. thanks. We will very likely join the umbrella. Just get final money paths sorted out. |
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| 21:29.18 | |Kev| | I like the idea of umbrellas, it's roughly the same number of total slots for the projects involved, but in the case that one project has many excellent proposals, and another fewer or poorer, the best use can be made of the slots. |
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| 21:29.47 | oy | sounds appealing |
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| 21:29.57 | |Kev| | Plus it's less hassle for carols :) |
| 21:30.02 | koda | !next |
| 21:30.03 | socinfo | koda: "next" is 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 11 - Mentoring organization application deadline |
| 21:30.35 | gevaerts | Well, this slot redistribution also happens outside umbrellas |
| 21:31.12 | |Kev| | gevaerts: If an org gets 5 slots, it will *generally* pick its best 5 students. |
| 21:31.23 | |Kev| | It doesn't know how its proposals compare to other orsg. |
| 21:31.27 | gevaerts | But it's true that in those cases the people asking extra slots or giving up slots don't see eachother's proposals so they may not be comparing apples to apples |
| 21:31.41 | |Kev| | So unless it can't make 5 good projects out of it, the slots will probably not be redistributed. |
| 21:31.45 | oy | yeah, but a umbrella has extra means to route, to the more meaningful ones |
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| 21:32.50 | gevaerts | And of course as a paranoid person I always suspect all other orgs of being too soft :) |
| 21:33.27 | oy | soft in pushing students ;-) |
| 21:33.40 | tomaszg | What are the umbrellas you are talking about, actually? // Hi to all btw, I'm new here. |
| 21:34.07 | oy | LinuxFoundation |
| 21:34.10 | |Kev| | The XSF got an extra slot last year through someone giving one up, and we were very grateful - we had N+1 projects that we thought were really good - but of course we don't really know how good the apps for the project that gave one up was. |
| 21:34.25 | |Kev| | tomaszg: Organisations that don't manage a single codebase, but have many projects under their umbrella. |
| 21:34.34 | |Kev| | KDE, Gnome, Python, XSF. |
| 21:34.48 | tomaszg | Ok, thanks. |
| 21:34.51 | |Kev| | So in our case (XSF), all the XMPP clients, servers, libraries etc. go under our umbrella. |
| 21:36.19 | gevaerts | I sometimes think we should be under an umbrella, but I wouldn't know which one, and I hate real-life umbrellas (they're vicious weapons!) |
| 21:37.37 | kblin | actually I disagree.. most experienced orgs rather give back a slot before wasting it on a bad proposal |
| 21:38.08 | gevaerts | I suspect that too |
| 21:38.14 | |Kev| | Disagree with what, kblin? I don't see anything above that contradicts that. |
| 21:38.47 | |Kev| | Certainly my statement was that if it can't make N good projects out of it, it'd give them back. |
| 21:39.00 | gevaerts | And I also suspect that recycled slots might not tend to go to first time orgs |
| 21:39.06 | gevaerts | Although that's really a guess |
| 21:39.18 | |Kev| | (But that I suspect that it's not usually the case that good applications is less than number of allocated slots is most cases) |
| 21:39.32 | |Kev| | +English |
| 21:39.40 | kblin | I've seen this a couple of times already |
| 21:39.45 | gevaerts | It happens |
| 21:39.49 | |Kev| | Yes, I know it happens. |
| 21:40.04 | |Kev| | It's a small proportion of the thousands of students though, right? |
| 21:40.16 | gevaerts | What is? |
| 21:40.25 | |Kev| | The number of slots that get reallocated. |
| 21:40.34 | gevaerts | I'd say a few dozens |
| 21:40.45 | |Kev| | And around a thousand students? |
| 21:40.48 | gevaerts | Yes |
| 21:40.49 | |Kev| | So a couple of percent? |
| 21:40.58 | kblin | yeah, likely |
| 21:41.08 | gevaerts | But I think comparing to the number of orgs is more meaningful |
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| 21:41.16 | |Kev| | I think you can have your 'it happens' and I can have my 'a small proportion' :) |
| 21:41.32 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Yes, that may well be true. |
| 21:41.48 | gevaerts | I mean, it's usually "the last slot" in a way |
| 21:42.07 | dberkholz | we ended up giving some back last year |
| 21:42.23 | dberkholz | we might've had more students, but we didn't have any more unique projects or extra mentors for the existing ones |
| 21:42.27 | gevaerts | It's hard to really say though, since we also ask for a number of slots after looking at the proposals |
| 21:43.29 | |Kev| | We would certainly be willing to give back slots if we couldn't make use of them. I just doubt it'll realistically happen in our situation. |
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| 21:47.01 | gevaerts | I hope so for your sake :) |
| 21:47.36 | |Kev| | Thanks (I think) |
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| 21:48.27 | gevaerts | I mean, not giving back slots if you're sufficiently strict in only accepting good proposals means you received enough good proposals :) |
| 21:48.52 | |Kev| | Tru. |
| 21:48.56 | |Kev| | Urgh. |
| 21:48.57 | |Kev| | *True. |
| 21:49.02 | dotnick | tru dat |
| 21:49.04 | dotnick | :) |
| 21:49.16 | |Kev| | Yes, that's the thought that came into my mind when I read the typo. |
| 21:49.18 | |Kev| | Hideous. |
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| 23:12.16 | gevaerts | serves tea and coffee |
| 23:12.23 | carols | thanks gevaerts :-) |
| 23:12.27 | carols | sips some tea |
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| 23:20.53 | mlankhorst | ok, will this bisect point crash or work? |
| 23:20.55 | mlankhorst | taking bets :P |
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| 23:26.19 | EOF-sensei | herro carols |
| 23:26.31 | carols | hi EOF-sensei |
| 23:27.04 | mlankhorst | oh and it crashed |
| 23:27.08 | EOF-sensei | It's funny looking at abandoned projects |
| 23:27.47 | EOF-sensei | my favourite would have to be the Toxic Global Illumination Rendering Engine |
| 23:28.00 | EOF-sensei | abandoned in 2005 |
| 23:28.13 | EOF-sensei | but the thing's really nice |
| 23:28.16 | EOF-sensei | not too slow |
| 23:28.21 | EOF-sensei | and pretty compact |
| 23:32.33 | EOF-sensei | I believe the renderer is something like a measly 20k lines |
| 23:32.42 | EOF-sensei | and I'm sure it could be smarter |
| 23:33.21 | Mathnerd314 | it doesn't look abandoned... just not developed |
| 23:44.02 | EOF-sensei | Mathnerd314: it's abandoned |
| 23:44.18 | EOF-sensei | no mention of it since 2004/5/6 |
| 23:44.30 | EOF-sensei | I call that abandonment |
| 23:44.35 | Mathnerd314 | have you emailed anyone? |
| 23:44.43 | EOF-sensei | nope |
| 23:44.52 | Mathnerd314 | then it's probably not abandoned |
| 23:44.58 | EOF-sensei | hehehehe |
| 23:45.10 | Mathnerd314 | abandoned would be if the site didn't exist |
| 23:45.16 | EOF-sensei | well |
| 23:45.20 | EOF-sensei | in that case |
| 23:45.21 | Catfish_Man | that would be "gone entirely" |
| 23:45.32 | EOF-sensei | hehehehe |
| 23:45.51 | evildho | "toxic's goal is to provide artists with a free, powerful rendering tool which is actively maintained, developed and extended." |
| 23:45.57 | EOF-sensei | it's hosted on sourceforge |
| 23:45.59 | koda | i've just submitted my application \o/ |
| 23:46.09 | koda | let's hope it gets selected! |
| 23:46.11 | EOF-sensei | evildho: nice quote |
| 23:46.40 | EOF-sensei | the last three parts of the goal are nil |
| 23:46.47 | EOF-sensei | though |
| 23:47.22 | EOF-sensei | I could see something like this going splendidly as a second integrated renderer in blender |
| 23:47.31 | EOF-sensei | or something of that sort |
| 23:47.43 | evildho | the developers probably got tempted with promises of boatloads of money and videos of swooning physically accurate women |
| 23:48.23 | Mathnerd314 | if you read the news, the original developer got a job at a rendering place and signed a non-compete agreement |
| 23:48.52 | Mathnerd314 | and I'm guessing the replacement didn't really know how to develop it that well |
| 23:50.29 | evildho | from his post it seems like he was more in the latter group |
| 23:50.49 | evildho | "developers: here's kinda what i think toxic needs, users: SPREAD THE WORD OMG OMG OMG PARAGRAPHS MORE INFO" |
| 23:52.05 | Mathnerd314 | from google I'd guess it's this jperret: https://twitter.com/jonathanperret |
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