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| 00:13.20 | bernardl | SRabbelier|Lappy: i think i've made the transition, but now when i sign in it says "The page you requested is invalid" |
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| 00:15.54 | ojwb | bernardl: did you try turning it off and on again? |
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| 00:18.36 | bernardl | ojwb: apparently that did the trick |
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| 00:28.40 | thebolt | morning |
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| 00:29.46 | ahel | night |
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| 00:32.07 | al12gamer | I've never coded in my life....sans Java |
| 00:32.44 | al12gamer | I know a few linux terminal commands and the basics of Java from a class.....what exactly would be "standard' requirements to attend? |
| 00:33.55 | carols | al12gamer: attend what? |
| 00:34.37 | al12gamer | the coding fest |
| 00:34.41 | al12gamer | I know its not a physical event |
| 00:35.07 | al12gamer | I'm just saying what will there be able for new coders |
| 00:35.13 | al12gamer | *able to do |
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| 00:35.44 | carols | al12gamer: ah, so you mean just participating in GsoC? because it's all done online. |
| 00:36.08 | al12gamer | yea |
| 00:36.20 | carols | al12gamer: you might want to read the student manual, in that case |
| 00:36.20 | carols | http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 00:36.36 | al12gamer | ok |
| 00:38.04 | al12gamer | no UNIV-level coding education.....highschool level though....just one class on Java though |
| 00:39.19 | carols | al12gamer: you need to be enrolled into or accepted in a university to participate. |
| 00:39.28 | carols | did you read the FAQs? |
| 00:39.40 | al12gamer | oh |
| 00:39.42 | al12gamer | yep |
| 00:39.50 | al12gamer | just seein if highschool students could participate |
| 00:39.54 | al12gamer | thanks then |
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| 00:39.59 | carols | yw |
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| 08:18.02 | lostConnection | Hello all |
| 08:19.48 | |Kev| | Morning. |
| 08:19.54 | socketguru | hi |
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| 08:36.22 | thebolt | afternoon |
| 08:36.40 | akzfowl2 | hi everyone.. |
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| 08:47.22 | lostConnection | good night |
| 08:49.38 | harlan | I'm an org admin. Is there a way I can see all of the student proposals from GSoC 2010? |
| 08:50.17 | |Kev| | harlan: Everyone who was an admin at the time should be able to see them down the LHS. |
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| 08:50.38 | harlan | I've been looking but I'm not seeing them. |
| 08:50.38 | |Kev| | I can still see ours for last year. |
| 08:50.41 | harlan | hmmm |
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| 08:51.22 | harlan | "Manage Student Proposals"? |
| 08:51.34 | |Kev| | Sounds right. |
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| 08:51.51 | harlan | ah, I didn't wait long enough. |
| 08:51.55 | harlan | thanks... |
| 08:52.02 | |Kev| | NP. |
| 08:52.24 | Mark__T | how would I sign in to -melange with my foresightlinux.org google app account? |
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| 09:27.01 | ojwb | Mark__T: it seems you have to "enable google apps" |
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| 09:50.31 | *** topic/#gsoc is Welcome to Google Summer of Code 2011! We are accepting applications for mentoring organizations until 11 March at 23:00 UTC: http://goo.gl/CnhKl Please read the FAQs - http://goo.gl/Up2Qf and the Timeline - http://goo.gl/0lYPz for more info. |
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| 12:22.12 | *** topic/#gsoc is Welcome to Google Summer of Code 2011! We are accepting applications for mentoring organizations until 11 March at 23:00 UTC: http://goo.gl/CnhKl Please read the FAQs - http://goo.gl/Up2Qf and the Timeline - http://goo.gl/0lYPz for more info. |
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| 12:32.39 | gevaerts | A wiki page is the usual method |
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| 12:44.25 | BioNukularAntrax | i cannot find a complete list of gsoc 2010 ideas |
| 12:44.39 | BioNukularAntrax | is there something like that available somewhere? |
| 12:44.49 | socketguru | it's all there |
| 12:44.57 | socketguru | as far as i know |
| 12:46.12 | ojwb | there's no complete list of the *ideas*, but there is a list of the projects that actually got worked on |
| 12:46.31 | BioNukularAntrax | thanks |
| 12:48.12 | BioNukularAntrax | oh w8 where is the list with actual projects? |
| 12:49.22 | socketguru | thanks |
| 12:49.40 | BioNukularAntrax | got it |
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| 13:49.18 | bruel | Hi folks! Is it correctly understood that we have to wait till the 18.03 to see the elected projects? |
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| 13:50.55 | |Kev| | If you mean the chosen orgs, then that sounds about the right date. |
| 13:51.04 | David_Honeynet | bruel: selected orgs, yes (http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/timeline) |
| 13:51.11 | |Kev| | You can already see many offered projects, though - you just have to accept that some of those orgs may not make it. |
| 13:51.39 | bruel | Kev and David_Honeynet: Thanks |
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| 14:05.42 | bruel | Hmm - I've searched but don't seem to find a list applying organizations. Do anyone have a link? Or should have a look at the list for 2010? |
| 14:06.14 | bruel | s/should/should I/ |
| 14:06.14 | |Kev| | http://google.com/ is your friend. |
| 14:06.27 | |Kev| | Looking at last year's list is a good indication. |
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| 14:06.37 | |Kev| | Searching for orgs announcing that they're applying also good. |
| 14:06.45 | bruel | |Kev|: My ex-friend, thanks |
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| 14:36.57 | bruel | General question: Isn't knowledge of C and it's various build tools a prerequisite for OSS programming? (I have Java and Python experience) |
| 14:37.12 | gevaerts | Why would it be? |
| 14:37.33 | gevaerts | I agree it should be, and no other language should exist, but in practice lots of people write software in other languages |
| 14:38.09 | gevaerts | Unless of course you mean OSS as the Open Sound System, in which case, yes, you need C |
| 14:38.12 | thebolt | :-) |
| 14:38.17 | bruel | gevaerts: Well I dont think it should be (love Python) but I feel that I have to learn it... |
| 14:38.53 | thebolt | knowing C is always good, but no, not always required or best way of doing something.. |
| 14:39.29 | gevaerts | bruel: I think knowledge of a low-level language like C is very useful because it helps putting things in perspective |
| 14:39.36 | |Kev| | bruel: I have never written any open-source C code. |
| 14:39.45 | gevaerts | That doesn't mean it's essential or that you should be using it daily |
| 14:40.02 | |Kev| | (Not that I can't, but I never have had the need) |
| 14:40.06 | bruel | gevaerts: So it's: 'system programming': C. 'Application programming': "whatever language" |
| 14:40.22 | gevaerts | That's not really what I mean |
| 14:40.37 | |Kev| | bruel: it's 'project written in C programming': C. 'Application written in $LANG programming': $LANG |
| 14:41.01 | gevaerts | I mean, having done strings in C makes you know that handling strings is not a cheap simple thing, and if a language like python makes it easy, you realise that there's still a lot of code there that needs time to run |
| 14:41.17 | gevaerts | And if it's a new project, you get to choose :) |
| 14:41.45 | thebolt | gevaerts: hopefully you also learn that doing string handling in C is using the wrong tool for the job :P |
| 14:41.58 | gevaerts | thebolt: if you have to do a lot of it, yes, probably |
| 14:42.38 | thebolt | few things are more painful than proper string handling in C :/ |
| 14:42.51 | gevaerts | Yes, but that's exactly my point |
| 14:43.05 | gevaerts | Proper string handling, including unicode, is *expensive* |
| 14:43.53 | gevaerts | A C programmer will *never* pass a string to a function and do a switch() statement (or equivalent) on it |
| 14:43.56 | |Kev| | This is largely irrelevant, though. You write your application, you check speed, if it's too slow you profile and speed up the slow bits - they could be string or they could be something completely different :) |
| 14:44.48 | bruel | So knowlegde of C implies you have a higher "code maturity"? |
| 14:45.07 | |Kev| | bruel: I think knowledge of C implies you have higher knowledge of C :) |
| 14:45.14 | aghisla | let me link http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ten-thousand.html |
| 14:45.20 | thebolt | |Kev|: Well, that is runtime speed.. but you also have "writing speed" to consider ;) |
| 14:45.23 | gevaerts | |Kev|: I've seen java code where strings are used instead of enums, without a single good reason. I claim that that's a bad habit, even if your CPU is fast enough, and if you don't get into that habit, you will never have to optimise that code |
| 14:45.57 | gevaerts | bruel: knowing several rather different languages implies a higher "code maturity" |
| 14:46.09 | |Kev| | gevaerts: Sure, but "I've seen bad code that does X" doesn't really mean all that much - there's a lot of very bad code out there :) |
| 14:46.22 | thebolt | or "coder maturity" rather than code maturity |
| 14:46.32 | gevaerts | well yes |
| 14:46.42 | |Kev| | thebolt: Yes, but I thought the original argument was that languages other than C made it easy to write string handling, and that was bad because it masks the computational expense :) |
| 14:47.02 | gevaerts | |Kev|: that's not what I meant :) |
| 14:47.26 | gevaerts | Masking computational expense is *fine*, it's just that if you only ever saw such languages, you may not realise it's done |
| 14:47.55 | thebolt | |Kev|: no, the argument was that knowing how things are done in a "lower level" language can make you realize that what higher level languages hide from you is still expensive |
| 14:47.57 | bruel | aghisla: Thanks for the artu-link :) |
| 14:48.03 | gevaerts | And the best way to realise it is to have written the actual code yourself once, not to have been told about it |
| 14:48.18 | aghisla | imho, it depends on what is the potential missing resource: developers time, CPU, memory.. it justifies choices |
| 14:48.20 | |Kev| | Right - but my argument was that you will profile the app, find it's expensive, and then know it for the future. Either way you get to know that X is expensive. |
| 14:48.28 | aghisla | bruel: :) it's a great book |
| 14:48.55 | bruel | aghisla: It seems to be the right religion... :) |
| 14:49.19 | gevaerts | |Kev|: that may be true in this case, and strings and performance may not have been the right example :) |
| 14:52.09 | |Kev| | I'm not arguing against learning C, BTW, I do code in it on a daily basis. I just remember when I was younger (age 11 or so) that I thought that I should learn C because it's the only true language (which was probably true back then, mind), and I was trying to stop this discussion leading anyone to that misunderstanding :) |
| 14:52.35 | gevaerts | nods |
| 14:52.51 | |Kev| | I think you could happily go your whole programming career and not touch C, yet still be highly skilled and productive. |
| 14:52.52 | gevaerts | I did say "a low-level language like C" :) |
| 14:53.01 | |Kev| | Just not if you're working on C projects :) |
| 14:53.44 | ojwb | assembler's the one true language, C's just the next best thing |
| 14:53.50 | gevaerts | It depends on the constraints. I'm pretty sure there are some skills that are easier to learn if you have at least encountered a low level language |
| 14:53.56 | gevaerts | ojwb: but on which CPU? |
| 14:54.00 | aghisla | it's like cooking, in some cases you have time to compile your dinner from scratch, in others no |
| 14:54.11 | ojwb | well, that's what C gets you over assembler |
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| 16:29.10 | sfb | !next |
| 16:29.10 | socinfo | sfb: "next" is (#1) 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 12th - Mentoring organization application deadline, or (#2) 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 11 - Mentoring organization application deadline |
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| 17:54.25 | jhf | Hi all, long time listener, first time caller.. Is it cool if we mention on our Ideas page that we intend to donate a portion of any proceeds to charity? I'm about to submit my mentoring org application but wasn't sure if thats appropriate for the Ideas page. |
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| 17:55.46 | mlankhorst | jhf: as long as it's not the students money? |
| 17:56.03 | jhf | nope. it is not. |
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| 17:57.33 | mlankhorst | !faq |
| 17:57.33 | socinfo | mlankhorst: "faq" is http://goo.gl/Up2Qf |
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| 18:00.04 | gevaerts | jhf: if you want to be sure, ask again when carols gets online (which should be reasonably soon, if she's on her normal schedule), or send her an email |
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| 18:00.49 | jhf | gevaerts: tx, will do that! |
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| 18:01.21 | gevaerts | I suspect it's fine though, but I'm not in charge of evaluating applications :) |
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| 18:03.22 | mlankhorst | jhf: Mentoring organizations will receive 500 USD per student shortly after the final evaluation deadline, August 26, 2011. |
| 18:03.48 | mlankhorst | however I don't think there are restrictions on what you do with it, if you want to buy winehq.org a chocolate fountain it would be a welcome gift ;) |
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| 18:04.40 | jhf | Yeah. we have a non-profit arm of our org that does various charity work to which we will send a portion. |
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| 18:04.58 | gevaerts | mlankhorst: I suspect the question is more if mentioning this on the Ideas page might be seen as an unfair way to attract students. I don't think it is, but you never know |
| 18:05.07 | jhf | yeah, exactly. |
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| 18:06.28 | mlankhorst | !next |
| 18:06.28 | socinfo | mlankhorst: "next" is (#1) 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 12th - Mentoring organization application deadline, or (#2) 23:00 UTC on Friday, March 11 - Mentoring organization application deadline |
| 18:06.35 | red[] | mlankhorst: can I bother you in pvt? |
| 18:06.40 | mlankhorst | sure |
| 18:06.44 | red[] | thx |
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| 18:16.58 | _Samo_ | we have finished our application |
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| 18:27.17 | _Samo | hi povman |
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| 19:06.28 | awakecoding | Hi |
| 19:06.35 | carols | awakecoding: hi |
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| 19:06.46 | carols | serves coffee and tea |
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| 19:06.54 | awakecoding | I have a quick question: I want to apply as a mentoring organization |
| 19:07.03 | carols | great, glad to hear it |
| 19:07.15 | awakecoding | from what I understood, if I press submit now in the application form, it saves it and I can edit it later? |
| 19:07.33 | awakecoding | and on the application deadline, it becomes the final version? |
| 19:07.48 | carols | awakecoding: you have to fill in all the required fields in order to save it, but yes, you can go back and change it later before the deadlin |
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| 19:07.51 | carols | deadline, even |
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| 19:08.34 | awakecoding | ok, so if some of the fields don't have valuable information yet, I can click submit now to fill them fully later and sleep well at night? :P |
| 19:08.39 | gevaerts | decides to put some sugar in his tea today :) |
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| 19:09.05 | carols | awakecoding: indeed |
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| 19:09.33 | carols | you splurging, gevaerts? |
| 19:09.38 | aghisla | offers some biscuits |
| 19:10.00 | awakecoding | @carols: thanks! |
| 19:10.17 | gevaerts | carols: yes. Splurging is always fun! |
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| 19:10.46 | carols | awakecoding: yw |
| 19:10.52 | carols | gevaerts: yes it is :-) |
| 19:11.22 | gevaerts | offers some chocolate for completeness :) |
| 19:11.28 | awakecoding | hum... I need a backup admin different than me |
| 19:11.29 | carols | munches chocolate |
| 19:11.32 | carols | always awesome |
| 19:11.34 | awakecoding | in order to save |
| 19:11.41 | davidL | carols: for the "Home page" field in the mentoring org. application, which is preferred: the organization's overall homepage or a homepage we've created that's specific to GSoC? |
| 19:12.01 | carols | davidL: your organization's homepage. the gsoc-specific page is your ideas page |
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| 19:12.33 | davidL | carols: alright. thank you |
| 19:12.38 | carols | yw |
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| 19:18.47 | Billg | Hello. I'm interested in participating as a student programmer in the google soc this summer. I've read through the website and understand the requirements . But I've never done an openSource project before, or even any big project before, and I am also uncertain if I know enough in programming to do this. So I was hoping to get some more advice or helpful hints about what I need to do or can do? |
| 19:19.50 | DrJoel | awakecoding: there may be fields you have to be TBD or XXX so Melange doesn't think you left it empty |
| 19:19.54 | dhaun | Billg: http://www.booki.cc/gsocstudentguide/_v/1.0/am-i-good-enough/ |
| 19:19.54 | carols | Billg: did you read the student manual as well? |
| 19:20.09 | carols | what dhaun said :-) |
| 19:20.27 | dhaun | with a name like "Bill G." that shouldn't be an issue anyway ;-) |
| 19:22.27 | psychon | what if I don't have time for gsoc because of the other three open source projects that I work on (of which two I maintain)? does that count as cheating yet? |
| 19:22.53 | carols | psychon: what do you mean by "cheating"? |
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| 19:23.11 | psychon | wasnt gsoc about bringing students to open source projects? |
| 19:24.22 | carols | psychon: yes, that is definitely one of the components for sure |
| 19:28.17 | brik | I guess he's asking whether you want students who are already participating in open source projects |
| 19:28.50 | snc | sounds like she's saying that bringing in new people is not the only goal |
| 19:28.51 | psychon | oh, hi brik, are w00t's brik? |
| 19:29.27 | brik | he doesn't own me no ;p |
| 19:29.46 | psychon | then... "chatspike's brik?" :P |
| 19:30.10 | Billg | well that handbook is a little more helpful. Thanks. and I don't understand what you said about my irc nick? do i need to change it? |
| 19:30.19 | brik | psychon: :p yes |
| 19:30.53 | psychon | plus from all I heard, he acts like you own him... |
| 19:31.26 | dhaun | Billg: sorry, just joking - I'm associating it with a certain other well-known Bill ... |
| 19:31.31 | carols | psychon: being involved in an opensource project already is great, and wonderful reason to do gsoc since you'll get paid for doing something you would have already done for free :-) |
| 19:31.47 | brik | psychon: shared custody between me and special |
| 19:31.48 | psychon | carols: which is why I said it feels like cheating ;-) |
| 19:33.18 | carols | psychon: kblin can probab |
| 19:33.18 | Billg | ok i get it now bye |
| 19:33.25 | carols | psychon: no, not cheating. |
| 19:33.35 | carols | psychon: really awesome :-) |
| 19:34.12 | carols | psychon: besides, you still have to be accepted by the org, and they may get better proposals for projects than yours :-) |
| 19:34.35 | psychon | so I should apply on the grounds that I will be rejected? |
| 19:34.53 | carols | psychon: you should apply if you want to do GSoC for the summer. |
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| 19:42.01 | DrJoel | psychon: every org has more student proposals than slots available. Someone is going to get turned down but it doesn't have to be you. If you want to do GSoC, find an org or two that you are interested in, review their projects pages and start talking to them. If they do get accepted, you will have a head start. |
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| 20:21.13 | wolfb | hey carols who should I poke to get my melange account fixed? |
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| 20:39.44 | carols | wolfb: sverre |
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| 20:42.18 | wolfb | carols: thx |
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| 20:58.40 | CrawfordComeaux | My organization is just beginning development on a few projects, so we don't have anything out there yet. Would we still be eligible to participate? |
| 21:00.56 | CrawfordComeaux | If I understand the blog post announcing the application phase for orgs, it seems like we may have a better shot if we're referred by another org that's participated in the past. |
| 21:06.01 | wolfb | CrawfordComeaux: if you don't have anything yet, do you have enough to offer the student an interesting environment to work in? |
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| 21:06.44 | wolfb | Will the student be able to make something finished and working during the summer? |
| 21:12.24 | Dark_Shikari | That's generally the idea. |
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| 21:15.24 | CrawfordComeaux | wolfb: I think there are some components that fit that scope, yes. And absolutely think we've got some interesting projects to work on. How would you describe an "interesting environment"? |
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| 22:06.39 | wolfb | CrawfordComeaux: something that works, and that is usable. If it isn't working or ready enough to start on new projects it can be hard to keep the motivation of the student up |
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| 22:19.52 | CrawfordComeaux | wolfb: are you referring to a development environment? |
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| 22:23.10 | wolfb | CrawfordComeaux: yes, and come to think of it a community to interact with too |
| 22:32.18 | araujo | hands lh a flower |
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