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| 06:07.18 | barra_home | morning! |
| 06:07.25 | barra_home | question for a the native speakers |
| 06:07.41 | barra_home | we're maining a help wanted section at the wiki of our OSS project |
| 06:08.04 | barra_home | are "Open position & closed positions" common terms in this field? |
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| 06:08.33 | barra_home | * maintaining |
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| 06:29.05 | ojwb | barra_home: "positions" sounds kind of odd in this context |
| 06:29.25 | barra_home | what kind of terms would you prefer ojwb ? |
| 06:29.39 | ojwb | not sure |
| 06:29.46 | ojwb | "positions" makes it sounds like a job |
| 06:29.51 | Dark_Shikari | what ojwb said |
| 06:29.59 | barra_home | ohh Dark_Shikari is here |
| 06:30.09 | Dark_Shikari | I would say there are two types of "positions" in an open source project. |
| 06:30.11 | barra_home | my favourite doom9 poster |
| 06:30.13 | Dark_Shikari | 1) Room for someone to do stuff |
| 06:30.19 | Dark_Shikari | 2) Room for someone to take responsibility |
| 06:30.23 | Dark_Shikari | they're not the same thing. |
| 06:30.37 | barra_home | yep, we already covered that in our membership article |
| 06:30.46 | Dark_Shikari | An example of 2 would be if you are the "ARM maintainer". If you're the "ARM maintainer", it's your job to speak up when something affects ARM. |
| 06:30.52 | Dark_Shikari | ... but you could write a ton of ARM code without being the ARM maintainer. |
| 06:31.00 | Dark_Shikari | Of course, doing so many turn you into the ARM maintainer! |
| 06:31.09 | Dark_Shikari | *may turn |
| 06:31.23 | Dark_Shikari | I think it's better to maintain a TODO of stuff that needs doing |
| 06:31.25 | Dark_Shikari | as opposed to "positions". |
| 06:31.35 | Dark_Shikari | open source projects about getting things done, not about filling space. |
| 06:31.42 | ojwb | in most projects, it's much easy to do stuff |
| 06:32.00 | barra_home | to be fair: there are different ways to run OSS projects Dark_Shikari |
| 06:32.01 | Dark_Shikari | http://wiki.videolan.org/X264_TODO example |
| 06:32.04 | ojwb | if you keep doing it well, people notice and it might get a more formal status |
| 06:32.16 | Dark_Shikari | barra_home: yeah, true. but most projects don't really have a very structured form |
| 06:32.17 | barra_home | I'm not saying that ours works best, but it has worked good for us |
| 06:32.35 | barra_home | we actually have, at least somewhat more structured than the common small OSS project |
| 06:32.45 | Dark_Shikari | which one |
| 06:32.47 | ojwb | if there's too much structure, there's a bar to making the first contribution |
| 06:33.00 | ojwb | too little isn't much better though |
| 06:33.07 | barra_home | see, this leads to awesome project meta discussion :-) |
| 06:33.15 | Dark_Shikari | I think organization is important, but formality is bad. |
| 06:33.27 | barra_home | yep, we're trying to find the right balance |
| 06:34.07 | barra_home | though writing a compiler or an H.264 encoder might be different to making an open source game |
| 06:34.25 | Dark_Shikari | Well, games are notable because there's a greater focus on design |
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| 06:34.29 | barra_home | because you might have quite some contributors from other fields besides programmers |
| 06:35.47 | barra_home | we basically use a role membership model ojwb |
| 06:36.03 | Dark_Shikari | Games are tricky because there's no defined concept of what you're supposed to do. |
| 06:36.11 | barra_home | so people got an idea what roles there are and how easy it is to get "involved" |
| 06:36.23 | Dark_Shikari | well, IMO, roles come after getting involved. |
| 06:36.28 | Dark_Shikari | Once you get involved, you can get into roles. |
| 06:36.34 | Dark_Shikari | but you have to get involved first |
| 06:36.34 | barra_home | http://wiki.parpg.net/Membership_in_PARPG_development#The_four_roles_in_PARPG_development |
| 06:36.51 | barra_home | getting involved in this context is being a community member at first |
| 06:37.02 | barra_home | which means: hang around in IRC, toss around ideas |
| 06:37.09 | barra_home | that's basically the starting point |
| 06:37.16 | Dark_Shikari | It isn't that for any project? =p |
| 06:37.42 | ojwb | well, if it works for you, cool |
| 06:37.42 | barra_home | yep, but it's usually not obvious for newcomers who have never worked in OSS projects how these roles work |
| 06:38.00 | ojwb | i think I'd be put off submitting a patch if I was expected to select my role in the project first |
| 06:38.09 | barra_home | they get confused OSS projects are quite different in organization and structure |
| 06:38.19 | barra_home | nah, you don't SELECT your role |
| 06:38.20 | Dark_Shikari | ojwb: well, it's fine to throw around ideas without selecting a role |
| 06:38.22 | barra_home | you act in your role |
| 06:38.27 | barra_home | righto |
| 06:38.35 | barra_home | if you act like a lead dev, you are a lead dev |
| 06:39.06 | barra_home | the only somewhat more formal role is the developer position |
| 06:39.12 | ojwb | well, if there's a "random patch submitter" role, I'm happy I guess |
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| 06:39.18 | barra_home | which is defined by having SVN commit access |
| 06:39.27 | barra_home | yep, we call it "contributor" ojwb |
| 06:39.33 | Dark_Shikari | You need to make this clear on your wiki, as it's not obvious to people who see "job" or "position". |
| 06:39.46 | barra_home | good point Dark_Shikari |
| 06:40.00 | barra_home | I'll add a link to the membership article at our help wanted template |
| 06:40.16 | Dark_Shikari | for us, "commit access" is not a privilege, it's a mop and a broom |
| 06:40.19 | Dark_Shikari | like admins on wikipedia |
| 06:40.22 | barra_home | yep |
| 06:40.27 | barra_home | it's a burden as well |
| 06:40.34 | Dark_Shikari | I take charge of ensuring all our commits get in properly -- but I gain zero benefit |
| 06:40.38 | Dark_Shikari | I still have to get my changes reviewed |
| 06:40.49 | barra_home | it depends |
| 06:40.54 | Dark_Shikari | I just have to worry about handling 30 other commits in addition to mine. |
| 06:41.01 | barra_home | contributor's patches get reviewed before getting commited |
| 06:41.09 | Dark_Shikari | Whereas everyone else just spams me with them and assumes I'll get them done. |
| 06:41.16 | barra_home | developer's commits get reviewed after being commited |
| 06:41.53 | barra_home | hmm |
| 06:41.54 | Dark_Shikari | we use the merger/dictator git model |
| 06:41.57 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. one person handles all commiting |
| 06:42.00 | Dark_Shikari | everyone else gives him commits |
| 06:42.08 | Dark_Shikari | but that person has no special rights, all commits get equal review. |
| 06:42.14 | barra_home | that puts quite some pressure on this person :-) |
| 06:42.16 | Dark_Shikari | and that person's tree is publicly viewable so everyone can bitch. |
| 06:42.26 | Dark_Shikari | It doesn't work for a large project IMO. |
| 06:42.41 | Dark_Shikari | ffmpeg to some extent does it, with michael niedermayer trying crazily to review every single patch on the ML |
| 06:42.44 | barra_home | yep, we're still using SVN, but we plan to move to git or hg down the line |
| 06:42.47 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: works in wine |
| 06:42.52 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: and it works in Linux |
| 06:42.56 | ojwb | yeah, at some point that person can't keep up with the patches being sent in, let alone do any of their own work |
| 06:43.10 | barra_home | that's a good point ojwb |
| 06:43.18 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: but linux uses a deputy mode;l, that's different |
| 06:43.22 | ojwb | Linux isn't quite like that AIUI |
| 06:43.22 | barra_home | but it also depends on the maturity and popularity of the project |
| 06:43.26 | Dark_Shikari | yeah, linux has multiple levels of hierarchy |
| 06:43.30 | Dark_Shikari | we just have one |
| 06:43.40 | barra_home | some obscure game project can prolly live with a broken trunk for a day or two |
| 06:43.52 | Dark_Shikari | to give an idea of commit volume, we have about 0.5-1 commits per day on average. |
| 06:43.56 | Dark_Shikari | Of course, we try to make each commit count |
| 06:44.02 | Dark_Shikari | i.e. we don't just spam commits for every typo fix |
| 06:44.13 | Dark_Shikari | and there can be 5000-line commits. |
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| 06:44.26 | kblin | ouch |
| 06:44.30 | Dark_Shikari | Rarely;. |
| 06:44.33 | barra_home | anyway, thanks for the pointers :-) I'll have to tackle some tasks |
| 06:44.34 | Dark_Shikari | Usually the fault of GSOC. |
| 06:44.42 | Dark_Shikari | :) |
| 06:45.47 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: and those get accepted? |
| 06:46.06 | Dark_Shikari | Well, considering that we worked with them for 3-5 months on said patch |
| 06:46.16 | Dark_Shikari | we, being the same people who typically review it... |
| 06:46.35 | kblin | my first gsoc had me sending in a patch like that, and that got rejected right away |
| 06:46.57 | kblin | took me months to break apart that patch using cvs |
| 06:47.06 | kblin | I wish I had known about quilt back then |
| 06:47.13 | Dark_Shikari | heh |
| 06:47.19 | Dark_Shikari | our last GSOC had some broken-apart stuff |
| 06:47.21 | Dark_Shikari | but it was still large |
| 06:47.23 | Dark_Shikari | example: http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=commitdiff;h=80174bfdd30da508576d318323af57b2cd821c5b |
| 06:47.33 | Dark_Shikari | this was one of about ~10 patches making up that student's work. |
| 06:48.03 | ojwb | barra_home: I would suggest talking to people in your community to see what was unclear to them when they first got involved |
| 06:48.23 | barra_home | yep, we usually handle this via IRC ojwb |
| 06:48.24 | ojwb | though that's a slightly biased sample, as you're missing people who got put off |
| 06:48.27 | Dark_Shikari | though, that reminds me |
| 06:48.29 | Dark_Shikari | <Dark_Shikari> k, time to write the enormous commit message |
| 06:48.29 | Dark_Shikari | <pengvado> really? normally commit message length is inversely proportional to commit length, unless it's just an amalgamation of lots of independent patches. I mean, if I were to commit all of x264 at once, it would just say "new h264 encoder". :) |
| 06:48.35 | barra_home | yep, that's a good point |
| 06:48.57 | kblin | hehe |
| 06:49.01 | barra_home | you can't really "measure" how many people are viewing the blog or the wiki and say "that sounds too complicated for me" |
| 06:49.16 | barra_home | we try to keep the entry barrier low |
| 06:49.32 | barra_home | I think the role concept linked to can work quite well |
| 06:49.46 | barra_home | because the most basic way of contributing is tossing around ideas |
| 06:50.13 | Dark_Shikari | Yeah, I've found that's the most useful as well |
| 06:50.27 | Dark_Shikari | It's how I started anyways |
| 06:50.27 | barra_home | and it describes more substantial ways of contributing as well, e.g. sending in patches, fleshing out "proposal" (slightly stolen from the PEP concept) |
| 06:51.30 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: in game projects, I'm a bit wary about this stuff |
| 06:51.47 | barra_home | (it's written in python so most the more experienced contributed you get are already familiar with the PEPs, which is a plus) |
| 06:51.55 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: throwing around ideas isn't good in game projects? |
| 06:52.01 | barra_home | yes and no |
| 06:52.09 | barra_home | it's good as way to get started |
| 06:52.23 | barra_home | but some people actually think tossing around ideas is all what development is about |
| 06:52.34 | barra_home | they don't realize that it takes more than that |
| 06:52.41 | Dark_Shikari | We have one of those in x264. |
| 06:53.07 | ojwb | i've had coworkers who seemed to think that |
| 06:53.14 | barra_home | and they don't get that the more substantial work is a great way to have a say in the direction oft the project |
| 06:53.27 | kblin | Dark_Shikari: if I had a dollar for every person dropping by at the worldforge IRC/forum/mailing list with "I have this great game idea" or "here is my whitepaper on how you need to do it", I could fund renting out a dedicated server at a co-lo for quite a while |
| 06:53.34 | barra_home | so they complain why their awesome idea (TM) hasn't been implemented by us |
| 06:53.42 | Dark_Shikari | kblin: all ideas have to be in context |
| 06:53.56 | barra_home | basically what kblin said |
| 06:53.57 | Dark_Shikari | the best way to start is not to create ideas, but to comment on others |
| 06:54.05 | barra_home | good point |
| 06:54.07 | Dark_Shikari | that is, I'm working on patch X, and I encounter problem Y and mention it on IRC |
| 06:54.15 | kblin | I mean there was a full project of people turning up on our mailing list about that |
| 06:54.16 | ojwb | the world in general seems to mostly fail to get that ideas aren't in limited supply |
| 06:54.20 | Dark_Shikari | the easiest way to get in is to tell me how to fix problem Y |
| 06:54.33 | Dark_Shikari | Because there's lots of ideas and just because I'm experienced doesn't mean I'll come up with the best one. |
| 06:54.47 | barra_home | to be fair Dark_Shikari: game projects work slightly different |
| 06:54.58 | barra_home | there are simply very subjective fields like writing and game design |
| 06:55.06 | Dark_Shikari | Yeah, but you still encounter problem Y |
| 06:55.08 | Dark_Shikari | when doing thing X |
| 06:55.13 | barra_home | actually: no |
| 06:55.20 | Dark_Shikari | What should this character say in this situation? |
| 06:55.24 | Dark_Shikari | How should we balance these two units? |
| 06:55.48 | barra_home | my point is: they'll come to IRC with their awesome storyline they've written |
| 06:55.59 | Dark_Shikari | That's dumb. |
| 06:55.59 | barra_home | and we should implement it |
| 06:56.15 | barra_home | I agree :-) |
| 06:56.17 | Dark_Shikari | That's the same as someone coming to x264dev with their cool algorithm on CUDA that we should implement. |
| 06:56.21 | Dark_Shikari | Everyone does. |
| 06:56.23 | Dark_Shikari | We get those too. |
| 06:56.56 | barra_home | the main problem is that the ratio of these people showing up seems to be higher in game projects |
| 06:57.14 | barra_home | because games are awesome, everyone knows them and every has ideas (TM) |
| 06:57.25 | barra_home | while not everyone might have an idea what a compiler or a lexer is |
| 06:58.11 | Dark_Shikari | this is why it's better to start by commenting on ideas than making them up from whole cloth |
| 06:58.29 | barra_home | yep, we try to get that point across :-) |
| 06:58.58 | barra_home | though to be fair, it sometimes helps if they actually flesh out their concepts in detail |
| 06:59.17 | barra_home | instead of just saying: I've read your wiki and this idea sucks and that idea is totally wrong as well |
| 06:59.48 | barra_home | I get where you're coming from: you mean commenting in a more substantial way |
| 07:00.05 | Dark_Shikari | It actually reminds me of fanfiction sites. |
| 07:00.25 | Dark_Shikari | You have people who come on and give constructive comments, you have the rare people who come on and post brilliant stuff, and then you have the people who come on and flood the place with their "brilliant prose". |
| 07:00.41 | Dark_Shikari | I guess it's true of anything involving creativity. |
| 07:05.28 | barra_home | yep, pretty much :-) |
| 07:06.21 | barra_home | I think setting some "creative guidelines" can work in these regards |
| 07:06.48 | barra_home | we plan to find a lead writer for the project so we can develope a creative vision how the game should work in terms of tone, writing themes, etc. |
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| 07:07.08 | barra_home | and once you have such a vision, it's a bit easier to judge contributions |
| 07:07.18 | barra_home | basically if they comply with the vision or not |
| 07:07.26 | Dark_Shikari | Reminds me of translation projects. How do you get a large translation project to sound as if it was translated by one person? |
| 07:07.35 | Dark_Shikari | Particularly in the case of translations where the translator basically has to rewrite the text. |
| 07:07.51 | Dark_Shikari | Fun times ensue when people disagree on style. |
| 07:08.02 | barra_home | hehe, yep that can be tricky :-) |
| 07:08.15 | barra_home | we basically cheat there, the game will be in English |
| 07:08.16 | Dark_Shikari | Must get even more "fun" when people disagree on the plot or the characters. |
| 07:08.38 | barra_home | I guess it works with creative dictatorship model |
| 07:08.52 | barra_home | and sometimes you might even have two writers who actually like each other :-) |
| 07:09.16 | barra_home | I guess it helps if one writer cares most about themes and setting and the other guy is a good dialogue writer |
| 07:09.33 | barra_home | so while they'll influence each other, each of them has their "field of work" |
| 07:10.04 | barra_home | ahh well, we'll see how it'll work out for us |
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| 09:28.39 | kai | morning |
| 09:36.29 | ojwb | hi kai |
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| 11:39.21 | n4nd0 | hi |
| 11:39.44 | n4nd0 | anybody there? |
| 11:39.53 | aviraldg | Hi. |
| 11:39.57 | aviraldg | Yes, why? |
| 11:40.06 | n4nd0 | my first time here |
| 11:40.17 | n4nd0 | just checking the basics of how it works |
| 11:40.30 | aviraldg | "it"? |
| 11:42.19 | n4nd0 | this channel |
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| 12:14.39 | barra_home | any specific information you're looking for n4nd0 ? |
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| 17:20.32 | gevaerts | lh: a bit late, probably, but a coworker told me today that he really enjoyed your talk at FOSDEM in 2009 |
| 17:20.48 | lh | gevaerts: thanks, glad to hear it! |
| 17:20.54 | Catfish_Man | 'lo folks |
| 17:21.13 | gevaerts | I would have done too if I hadn't had such a headache that day |
| 17:21.52 | lh | Catfish_Man: morning, nice to see you! |
| 17:21.59 | lh | gevaerts: flu or beer? |
| 17:22.13 | gevaerts | lh: *probably* beer. This was fosdem after all :) |
| 17:22.15 | Catfish_Man | hi lh :) |
| 17:22.26 | lh | gevaerts: suspected as much |
| 17:22.54 | lh | Catfish_Man: i still find it amusing that not long after you headed to the bay area, i headed to portland. and i can't believe you left! |
| 17:23.23 | Catfish_Man | yeah, it was a sad day. My new place here (just moved last month) is awesome though! |
| 17:23.35 | Catfish_Man | ...except my housemate's alarm clock has been going for the last 15 minutes |
| 17:23.35 | Catfish_Man | wtf |
| 17:25.25 | lh | Catfish_Man: heavy sleeper? |
| 17:25.33 | Catfish_Man | no |
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| 18:34.22 | carols | hey censorydep :-) |
| 18:34.27 | carols | serves tea and cookies |
| 18:34.35 | gevaerts | Yay! |
| 18:34.36 | carols | offers some coffee to lh |
| 18:34.37 | censorydep | noms |
| 18:34.43 | gevaerts | munches some cookies |
| 18:34.49 | lh | carols: thank you very much |
| 18:34.54 | lh | returns the favor |
| 18:35.00 | carols | you're welcome. happy friday, lh :-) |
| 18:35.17 | carols | pulls up the open source couch for some coffee and email reading |
| 18:35.20 | Dark_Shikari | mmm, cookies. |
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| 18:49.40 | lh | joins carols on the couch |
| 18:50.45 | carols | :-) |
| 18:52.26 | gevaerts | is too shy to join carols and lh on the couch |
| 18:54.33 | carols | aw gevaerts, but you were so sociable at the mentor summit! |
| 18:55.00 | gevaerts | carols: There was a reason I was handing out chocolate all the time :) |
| 18:55.23 | carols | gevaerts: speaking of which... |
| 18:55.24 | carols | ;-) |
| 18:56.24 | lh | gevaerts: it's a nice L shaped couch, plenty of room |
| 18:56.58 | carols | gevaerts: you can sit on the chaise with your laptop, lh and i wont bug you. |
| 18:57.41 | gevaerts | Ah, thanks! |
| 18:57.43 | gevaerts | does so |
| 18:57.47 | lh | is too busy with her own laptop to bug |
| 18:57.54 | carols | yay :-) |
| 18:57.56 | lh | hooray! all hail the free couch. |
| 18:58.31 | Catfish_Man | is too busy with bugs on his laptop :( |
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| 19:33.49 | kblin | hey folks |
| 19:33.55 | carols | hey kblin |
| 19:34.03 | kblin | ah, hi carol |
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| 19:37.04 | carols | serves tea, coffee, and cookies again |
| 19:38.52 | kblin | code-in is over, right? |
| 19:39.04 | carols | kblin: yes, as per the topic of the room :-) |
| 19:39.05 | kblin | walks over to the bar and gets a cocktail |
| 19:39.08 | gevaerts | mixes some tea and coffee and munches some cookies |
| 19:39.54 | kblin | carols: I wasn't all serious. I can read the !timeline :) |
| 19:40.11 | carols | kblin: awesome. enjoy your cocktail :-) |
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| 19:41.23 | kblin | I'm just getting ready for some open source coding to take a break from the open source coding at work ;) |
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| 19:41.46 | gevaerts | will do some open source drinking tomorrow :) |
| 19:42.32 | kblin | just remember there's free beer and open beer, and free beer that's not open for a while tends to be better |
| 19:42.41 | kblin | but beer that isn't open kind of sucks |
| 19:43.01 | gevaerts | Yes, but beer that's been open for too long goes flat |
| 19:43.19 | kblin | come to think of it, this is a pretty tricky subject |
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| 19:43.34 | kblin | gets back to DNS |
| 19:43.41 | gevaerts | Yes. I need to drink more before thinking it through :) |
| 19:43.45 | kblin | you know where you are with name servers at least |
| 19:43.59 | kblin | between a rock and a hard place, usually |
| 19:45.38 | danielmarth | carols: hi, what exactly is "tie"? only equal points or also equal number of tasks? |
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| 19:50.46 | kblin | IDSFG, but I'd say points is points. why would it matter if a person did a hard task or for easy tasks? |
| 19:51.23 | kblin | s/for/four/ |
| 19:52.02 | danielmarth | kblin: i would say the same thing, but i can't really recognize that in the official rules |
| 19:53.58 | carols | danielmarth: equal number of tasks completed at which point the tie is broken by the person who completed the most number of difficult tasks |
| 19:53.58 | kblin | !faq |
| 19:53.59 | socinfo | kblin: "faq" is http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gci_program/google/gci2010/faqs |
| 19:54.54 | kblin | carols: so easy tasks trump hard tasks, unless you have an equal number of tasks? :) |
| 19:55.32 | carols | kblin: easy tasks and hard tasks have always been weight differently based on points |
| 19:55.33 | kblin | not that I mind, you have to have some algorithm for tie-breaking |
| 19:55.56 | danielmarth | carols: so the ranking is correctly, i (danielm) am 10th and i will be 10th if the points don't change? |
| 19:56.20 | danielmarth | i was just worried because the 11th person has same amount of points, but more difficult tasks |
| 19:56.31 | carols | danielmarth: the winners will be announced on feb 14. please have patience :-) |
| 19:56.58 | lh | carols: pm if you have a moment |
| 19:57.02 | danielmarth | carols: sure, but that's a question about the rules :) |
| 19:57.14 | carols | lh: sure |
| 19:57.30 | kblin | carols: sure, but if I have 100 points and another person has 100 points, the person who has reached this point by doing the easier tasks has more completed tasks |
| 19:58.03 | carols | kblin: the rules are posted on melange? im not sure what questions i'm answering here? |
| 19:58.43 | kblin | carols: great, I'm not sure why my exact question is :) |
| 19:59.09 | danielmarth | carols: "In the event of a tie, Google will review the submissions and select the entrant who completed the highest volume of âhardâ Tasks." nothing says what a "tie" exactly is |
| 19:59.24 | carols | danielmarth: tie for place |
| 19:59.51 | danielmarth | so the overall number of tasks doesn't count? |
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| 20:01.08 | danielmarth | sorry, but i am either 10th or 11th at the moment, which is actually a huge difference for me |
| 20:01.59 | carols | danielmarth: the points determine ranking. the number of hard tasks completed determines the tie. |
| 20:02.08 | carols | im not sure what's not explicit? |
| 20:02.13 | carols | help me understand :-) |
| 20:02.15 | danielmarth | ok :/ |
| 20:02.22 | danielmarth | thanks |
| 20:02.25 | carols | yw |
| 20:04.57 | kblin | danielmarth: there's a good way of getting to spend a week-end at GoogleHQ, even if you're not one of the Grand Prize Winners |
| 20:05.29 | kblin | it's a bit more involved than doing 38 tasks during GCI, though |
| 20:06.13 | kblin | but while you need to be 18 or older to participate in GSoC as a student, there's no limit on the mentor's age |
| 20:06.51 | kblin | I think the youngest mentor we had was 13, and he got to go to the gsoc mentor summit :) |
| 20:07.22 | kblin | there's also t-shirts involved... |
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| 20:13.03 | danielmarth | kblin: thanks, but i worked really hard for that... |
| 20:13.15 | danielmarth | kblin: well, we'll see :) |
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| 20:14.08 | kblin | danielmarth: I work in science.. sometimes someone beats you to publishing some findings, that's just how life goes |
| 20:14.12 | kblin | best of luck anyway |
| 20:14.35 | danielmarth | kblin: yes, thanks :) |
| 20:14.36 | Nightrose | kblin: the problem is that the tasks that kick danielmarth off the top ten were added after the contest ended |
| 20:15.04 | Nightrose | that's imho not cool especially as i've been pushing my mentors and students to stick to one task at a time |
| 20:15.41 | kblin | Nightrose: wait, _added_ after the contest ended? |
| 20:15.48 | Nightrose | yes |
| 20:16.01 | Nightrose | because apparantly they were ok'd by the admin just not added to melange |
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| 20:16.40 | danielmarth | Nightrose: yes, and there is no proof of work |
| 20:17.09 | kblin | oh, as in "I just realized this student also did these 15 tasks"? |
| 20:17.27 | danielmarth | kblin: exactly, that's why i'm pretty pissed at the moment |
| 20:17.32 | Dark_Shikari | Nightrose: IMO trying to stick to one task at a time is problematic because of pipelining |
| 20:17.40 | Dark_Shikari | Because for example, suppose a task is "fix a bug". |
| 20:17.47 | Dark_Shikari | It may take a week or two for the fix to be accepted! |
| 20:17.56 | Dark_Shikari | It's not reasonable to expect students to do nothing during that time. |
| 20:18.03 | Dark_Shikari | They should be able to go work on another bug. |
| 20:18.03 | Nightrose | Dark_Shikari: i'm not saying it is unproblematic - it's just the way the rules were written |
| 20:18.07 | Nightrose | and i stuck to it |
| 20:18.23 | Nightrose | we were very quick with reviewing and so on |
| 20:18.31 | gevaerts | Dark_Shikari: if you have generic tasks like that, making sure there are some spares most of the time shouldn't be *too* hard |
| 20:18.52 | Dark_Shikari | gevaerts: well yeah, we did that of course |
| 20:18.56 | danielmarth | Dark_Shikari: i often worked on multiple tasks. once someone else claimed and finished a task i had already done locally. well, bad luck |
| 20:19.07 | Dark_Shikari | danielmarth: that's why we require all students to come on IRC to claim tasks |
| 20:19.10 | kblin | danielmarth: fair enough. I wasn't aware that was possible |
| 20:19.12 | Dark_Shikari | so it's impossible for two people to do the same task |
| 20:19.17 | Dark_Shikari | so they have to tell us |
| 20:19.22 | Dark_Shikari | "I am going to work on fixing <bug X>" |
| 20:19.30 | Dark_Shikari | and I mark it down, and I don't let anyone else doing a bugfix task do bug X. |
| 20:20.20 | danielmarth | Dark_Shikari: i wrote a wiki page while waiting for another task to be closed. in the meantime someone else finished the wiki task. it was a specific page, not just "any page" |
| 20:20.35 | Dark_Shikari | Yes, but for us, that person would have had to come on IRC |
| 20:20.38 | Dark_Shikari | and say "I'm doing this wiki page" |
| 20:20.40 | danielmarth | Dark_Shikari: that are the rules, i had bad luck and others should stick to it too |
| 20:20.43 | Dark_Shikari | and I would have told them "no you can't!" |
| 20:20.50 | Dark_Shikari | " danielmarth is already doing it!" |
| 20:21.05 | danielmarth | well, i think the first student who claims the task should get it |
| 20:21.09 | Nightrose | Dark_Shikari: that's besides the point of adding more tasks now though |
| 20:21.26 | Dark_Shikari | We added 10 after the fact because a student had finished 10 bugfixes but didn't get them in. |
| 20:21.30 | Dark_Shikari | Well, we didn't add them, just approve them. |
| 20:21.45 | Dark_Shikari | The bugfixes were timestamped before the end of the contest (the bug tracker tracks that) |
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| 20:32.46 | kblin | well, I guess the OSPO folks have a month to sort this out now, right? |
| 20:35.58 | kblin | but I'm sure glad that there's no GSoC grand prize winners or the like, a contest is so much more fuss :) |
| 20:36.18 | Dark_Shikari | Yeah, competition makes everything messier. |
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