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| 05:53.13 | kai | morning folks |
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| 06:24.25 | dholbach | good morning |
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| 07:11.19 | thebolt | Morning |
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| 07:24.33 | Waren | yop |
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| 07:42.42 | kai | ah, shoot |
| 07:42.54 | kai | shakes his fist at automated annotation tools |
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| 07:48.40 | comodo | mornin |
| 07:49.01 | comodo | anyone here who's good at network programming? |
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| 07:50.27 | smtms | comodo, if you ask your question it may turn out people who aren't good at network programming can answer it too |
| 07:50.46 | comodo | smtms: true. |
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| 07:51.29 | ojwb | perhaps that was the question |
| 07:52.55 | smtms | ojwb, you don't ask such a stupid question |
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| 07:53.09 | smtms | ojwb, in a large channel full of software developers |
| 07:53.13 | comodo | right, I'm planning to send a bunch of datablocks across a network with udp. Every block will have a serialnumber attached to it (has to do with reliability). I'm planning to use a long int for the serial, but I'm not too sure I wanna start at zero and work my way up. Someone said to me that if data gets corrupted on the way it's most likely to turn every bit to either zero or one, in which case starting at zero might be a bad idea |
| 07:53.54 | comodo | so, after that background info, my question is: what would be a smart way to set serialnumbers? |
| 07:54.19 | smtms | comodo, if you fear data corruption, you may want to use an error-detecting code (e.g. CRC) |
| 07:54.30 | smtms | comodo, UDP already offers weak form of error detection |
| 07:55.33 | comodo | smtms: how weak is the error detection in UDP? |
| 07:56.02 | smtms | comodo, read about the algorithm used |
| 07:58.44 | topfs2 | must say I've never heard of a corruption that turns everything to zero or everything to one |
| 07:58.48 | smtms | comodo, people don't start serial numbers at zero in order to improve resiliency when old packets (from a previous connection) are received, and to make attacks by blind attackers harder, but not because they fear errrors |
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| 07:59.40 | smtms | topfs2, UDP is carried over IP which can be carried over "we turn corruption into zeros" media - better play safe :-P |
| 08:00.12 | smtms | comodo, why are you designing your own protocol? |
| 08:00.50 | topfs2 | Hmm, when I think of it.Probably exists such medias |
| 08:01.59 | kai | topfs2: I'm not sure I understood your question from yesterday then |
| 08:02.44 | comodo | smtms: my project is to create a type of multicast driver with some form of reliability |
| 08:02.50 | topfs2 | kai, mostly wondered if samba could tell clients if its shares are changed. i.e. so a client knows when he should redo its cache and such |
| 08:03.15 | smtms | comodo, I believe there are existing protocols in this area |
| 08:03.26 | smtms | comodo, but maybe you are very constrained in what you can do |
| 08:03.29 | topfs2 | I haven't checked through the sources just wondered with the discussion :) |
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| 08:04.06 | smtms | comodo, when you say driver, do you mean device driver? |
| 08:04.07 | kai | topfs2: the way windows does it, yeah |
| 08:04.14 | comodo | smtms: well, the project specification says to open tcp tunnels to all clients, send data over multicast and then resend lost or corrupted data over tcp |
| 08:04.28 | comodo | smtms: no, not device driver :) sorry, should have specified that |
| 08:04.34 | kai | topfs2: don't remember off-hand what the windows file system call for this is, but it's also supported via SMB |
| 08:04.45 | kai | topfs2: SMB pretty much is "NTFS on the network" |
| 08:04.56 | comodo | smtms: it's supposed to work within a framwork of I/O drivers |
| 08:05.06 | kai | the NT-generation calls, at least |
| 08:05.08 | topfs2 | kai, cool! I need to check into it then! |
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| 08:08.35 | smtms | comodo, is their a place I can read about your project and the design of your protocol? |
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| 08:09.29 | comodo | smtms: the design of my protocol is really up to me, mostly. The project is described very briefly at http://dev.globus.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code_2010_Ideas#GlobusXIO_Reliable_Multicast |
| 08:10.09 | smtms | your mentor should pay attention to what you design |
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| 08:10.56 | smtms | comodo, is your protocol going to only run on Ethernet networks? |
| 08:11.32 | comodo | smtms: he does, but he's away for the day :) yes, only Ethernet. Only LAN. |
| 08:12.08 | smtms | comodo, Ethernet frames are protected by a 32-bit checksum (CRC-32), which is quite good at detecting errors |
| 08:12.47 | comodo | smtms: so data corruption is not really a problem, then. I only have to worry about packet loss |
| 08:13.00 | smtms | comodo, yes |
| 08:13.17 | smtms | comodo, and packet loss is what your project is about :-) |
| 08:13.48 | smtms | comodo, do you plan on handling multiple concurrent multicast transfers? |
| 08:14.10 | comodo | smtms: sweet. Then I guess I could simply start the serialnumber at 1000 or something. I'm sending to one multicast group only |
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| 08:15.22 | smtms | comodo, somebody will sooner or later start two simultaneous transfers at the same time - by mistake |
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| 08:16.09 | smtms | comodo, have you thought about flow-control - slowing down transmission when too many packets are lost or receiving nodes can't manage to write them to disk? |
| 08:16.36 | comodo | smtms: that would require two instances of the program to run simultaneously, both on the server (who sends) and on all the clients... I don't think that's a likely scenario in this case |
| 08:16.56 | smtms | comodo, you can't have two server-clients groups on the same LAN? |
| 08:17.42 | kai | topfs2: check out FileChangeNotify or whatever the api is called |
| 08:17.51 | comodo | smtms: I can, but it's unlikely to happen in this case. Especially with any type of conflicting use of multicast groups |
| 08:18.50 | comodo | smtms: the flow control is inherent in my solution, I think. There's a fair bit of blocking to ensure that everything has happened correctly before moving to the next step |
| 08:20.06 | topfs2 | cool kai looks like it was added to 3.0.25 (for the server on linux) if I have read the changelog right |
| 08:20.13 | topfs2 | and it uses inotify |
| 08:21.42 | smtms | comodo, what are your midterm goals? |
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| 08:24.35 | comodo | smtms: a working beta |
| 08:25.11 | comodo | smtms: well, mostly working :) after midterm I will do debugging and a performance study |
| 08:25.51 | smtms | and redesign and a rewrite ;-) |
| 08:26.04 | comodo | smtms: true ;) |
| 08:26.49 | smtms | comodo, what license do you use for the code you write? |
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| 08:29.05 | comodo | apache 2.0 |
| 08:30.14 | smtms | comodo, wish you luck with your work |
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| 08:35.28 | comodo | smtms: ty |
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