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| 00:59.48 | yonij | !timeline |
| 01:00.02 | yonij | !numapps |
| 01:00.13 | yonij | We want our bot back |
| 01:00.32 | Catfish_Man | really tempted to substitute my own that responds to !* with a kick ;) |
| 01:00.58 | yonij | hehe |
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| 01:01.46 | sreich | make that *!*. Exclamation points being used as punctuation is far overrated/overused anyways ;) |
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| 01:17.22 | movicont | aww, why did the bot make its leave? |
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| 01:18.40 | Catfish_Man | the machine it's on is not functioning |
| 01:18.54 | caden | perhaps we should hold a candlelight vigil for the bot then |
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| 01:19.49 | BHSPitMonkey | I'm changing my proposal to "Bring Back socbot" |
| 01:20.03 | BHSPitMonkey | It's ambitious, but I know I can do it in the timeframe |
| 01:20.10 | sreich | haha |
| 01:20.29 | Catfish_Man | I would be more impressed if you were making 'sockbot' |
| 01:20.41 | Catfish_Man | which would DCC SEND real wool socks to people |
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| 01:21.56 | sreich | what if it is too warm for wool? |
| 01:22.07 | sreich | I mean wool socks are not useful in hot summer climates |
| 01:22.15 | Catfish_Man | v2 feature |
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| 01:23.50 | sreich | and the sudden influx of wool socks around the globe could prove to have unforeseen consequences: moth overpopulation |
| 01:24.38 | Catfish_Man | sreich: firebot, from irc.mozilla.org, will deal with the moths |
| 01:24.58 | sreich | ah, good. we are safe from man-eating moths. |
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| 01:48.48 | LetterRip | hi all, a quickie question - we have two students that did multiple proposals that are highly rated, we know which two we are going to accept - should i mark their other proposals as inelligible, or just score their other proposals down - we are trying to see easily the ranking of the remaining proposals |
| 01:49.20 | ojwb | LetterRip: it's better to just score them down |
| 01:49.28 | ojwb | as that better reflects the situation |
| 01:49.29 | LetterRip | ok that is what i thought |
| 01:49.42 | ojwb | it may not make a difference at this point - not sure |
| 01:49.57 | ojwb | if it does, scoring down is better |
| 01:50.19 | LetterRip | yeah :) |
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| 01:57.31 | LetterRip | thanks |
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| 02:38.02 | MatthewWilkes | So, are the provisional student allocations the same as usual, the number of slots can go up or down even if you don't tell carols you want it to? |
| 02:39.18 | ojwb | um, did that happen last year? |
| 02:39.46 | MatthewWilkes | Don't *think* so, but I don't think it was guaranteed not to |
| 02:39.50 | ojwb | other than perhaps going up when the "held back" slots were released |
| 02:40.06 | ojwb | well, nothing it really guaranteed until the accepted students are announced |
| 02:40.13 | MatthewWilkes | sure |
| 02:40.35 | ojwb | doesn't know, but would be surprised if slots were quietly taken away |
| 02:40.58 | ojwb | because that would potentially require orgs to reassess significantly |
| 02:41.31 | ojwb | i'd also expect orgs to be told if they get more slots, since otherwise they may not notice and end up with a random student proposal getting accepted |
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| 04:10.49 | bawr | Uhh, carols said that orgs can only lose slots if they a) give it away or b) screw up - don't have enough mentors, etc. |
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| 04:18.25 | victortyau | hi |
| 04:18.27 | victortyau | hello |
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| 04:22.27 | bawr | Greetings. |
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| 04:36.25 | robbyoconnor | sighs |
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| 04:38.38 | bawr | Heh. I just realised that the mid-term evaluation date is off by a month in my timeline. :) |
| 04:38.53 | robbyoconnor | heh |
| 04:38.54 | robbyoconnor | ? |
| 04:39.02 | robbyoconnor | bawr: "your timeline"? |
| 04:39.14 | bawr | In my proposal. |
| 04:39.39 | bawr | I, well, I don't do named months. |
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| 04:40.06 | robbyoconnor | mine was broken up into Trimesters |
| 04:40.42 | bawr | That works. :) |
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| 04:40.55 | bawr | So, did you hear back from your org since the proposal deadline? |
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| 04:44.59 | skbohra | *sigh* i didnt hear anything |
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| 04:53.59 | robbyoconnor | MatthewWilkes: ping |
| 04:54.09 | robbyoconnor | im trying to get melange working |
| 04:55.23 | MatthewWilkes | robbyoconnor: pong |
| 04:55.31 | MatthewWilkes | sure, what's the issue? |
| 04:55.45 | robbyoconnor | buildout is bombing |
| 04:55.51 | robbyoconnor | it's not finding django |
| 04:55.55 | robbyoconnor | is there something i need to do ? |
| 04:56.28 | MatthewWilkes | robbyoconnor: buildout shouldn't be looking for django, it's included as part of the source tree, what's the exact error? |
| 04:56.44 | robbyoconnor | http://pastie.org/920700 |
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| 04:57.40 | skbohra | oh! windows! |
| 04:57.43 | robbyoconnor | yes. |
| 04:57.46 | robbyoconnor | I use windows |
| 04:57.49 | robbyoconnor | get it alll out now |
| 04:58.02 | robbyoconnor | Vista no less! |
| 04:58.08 | skbohra | omg |
| 04:58.11 | MatthewWilkes | robbyoconnor: I'm not sure about that, looks like it's trying to scan the directory for eggs instead of just adding it to the python path |
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| 04:58.42 | robbyoconnor | so how do I fix this :/ |
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| 04:59.56 | MatthewWilkes | robbyoconnor: Honestly, it's very alte here, 6am, I'm not sure I can be much help debugging right now, what you could do is just try running python2.5 ./thirdparty/google_appengine/dev_appserver.py ./app |
| 05:00.10 | MatthewWilkes | think those paths are right, but it would mean you can't run the automated tests |
| 05:00.56 | MatthewWilkes | you need to copy app.yaml.template to app.yaml and uncomment a line near the top first, though |
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| 05:04.58 | robbyoconnor | done |
| 05:05.01 | robbyoconnor | hat |
| 05:05.02 | robbyoconnor | :/ |
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| 05:27.47 | tobier | crap, now my mentors think I spamming them because I sent two e-mails (got a system e-mail that my first one was return to the sender, but apparently not) |
| 05:27.52 | tobier | fail :( |
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| 05:32.03 | tobier | oh wait, that was an old one |
| 05:32.06 | tobier | fail on my part! |
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| 06:34.14 | iamsumesh | Hi everyone. |
| 06:35.41 | BHSPitMonkey | Hi iamsumesh |
| 06:35.58 | BHSPitMonkey | you must be sumesh. |
| 06:36.06 | iamsumesh | yes |
| 06:36.14 | iamsumesh | name please |
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| 06:43.17 | BHSPitMonkey | I'm Stephen. |
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| 06:51.20 | dholbach | good morning |
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| 06:57.16 | BHSPitMonkey | morning |
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| 07:40.44 | gvallarelli | Hi GSoccers |
| 07:40.52 | |Kev| | Morning. |
| 07:40.54 | killerchicken_ | Hi GSoccer |
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| 08:44.52 | dhastha | Need help? I cant edit my proposal right now. I have made a spell mistake in my email contact. when can i edit it? |
| 08:46.04 | dhastha | This page is inactive at this time. while try to edit my proposal. |
| 08:46.29 | |Kev| | You can't edit your proposal after the submission deadline. Leave a comment. |
| 08:48.39 | dhastha | |Kev|, Thank you |
| 08:50.03 | kai | hmm |
| 08:50.09 | kai | let's see |
| 08:50.13 | smtms | not a good kind of mistake to make |
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| 08:51.07 | kai | kblin: See the faq at http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs |
| 08:51.10 | kai | haha |
| 08:51.28 | kai | sort of a manual socinfo replacement :) |
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| 08:51.49 | kai | as an added bonus, I can address specific nicks |
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| 08:53.53 | smtms | I've wondered why people do it the bot way, instead of kai's way |
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| 08:55.12 | kai | morning Lennie |
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| 08:55.17 | kai | how goes the hacking? |
| 08:55.18 | Lennie | morning kai |
| 08:55.22 | Lennie | good |
| 08:55.29 | Lennie | a lot of discussion about our possible students :P |
| 08:55.32 | Lennie | hard to choose |
| 08:56.09 | kai | right, I'll have to chat with my potential students as well |
| 08:56.17 | skbohra | Lennie: so having fun |
| 08:56.19 | Lennie | yes |
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| 09:24.41 | c_schmitz | !next |
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| 09:29.08 | drt24 | "next" is later. |
| 09:29.31 | drt24 | or 26th April |
| 09:30.00 | bawr | Wow. What do you know, I thought only religious people were good with stained glass. ;) |
| 09:30.02 | bawr | http://www.cambridge2000.com/gallery/html/P3125264.html |
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| 10:58.58 | jbartosik | !next |
| 10:59.37 | jbartosik | !timeline |
| 11:00.37 | bawr | The bot is dead. |
| 11:00.48 | Ian_Corne | and alot of info is the topic :) |
| 11:00.49 | Gangadhar | !dead |
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| 11:35.05 | banjo | !logs |
| 11:35.12 | banjo | durinbot: help |
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| 12:03.18 | thebolt | hi carols |
| 12:03.27 | carols | hey thebolt |
| 12:03.31 | carols | how's it going? |
| 12:03.32 | thebolt | realized that time-dependent greetings always ends up wrong ;) |
| 12:03.43 | thebolt | pretty well, been better, been worse. how about yourself? |
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| 12:03.58 | carols | not too bad. slot allocations run my life right now :-) |
| 12:04.10 | Ian_Corne | awesome |
| 12:04.11 | Ian_Corne | :p |
| 12:04.27 | carols | it'll be over soon :-) |
| 12:05.01 | thebolt | hehe, nice :P |
| 12:05.03 | Ian_Corne | and then the duplicate resolving can begin? |
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| 12:06.29 | codeorange | !numapps |
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| 12:07.51 | carols | yes, duplicates start on monday Ian_Corne |
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| 12:34.26 | yonij | hai |
| 12:34.48 | yonij | any thing new? |
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| 12:38.54 | _Samo | hi does anybody how can I unscore a proposal, I gave an score by mistake and I can not undo |
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| 12:40.36 | ojwb | _Samo: make the same score but negatively... |
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| 12:43.23 | _Samo | ok thanks! |
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| 12:45.27 | mlankhorst | heu |
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| 12:46.45 | thebolt | hi mr mlankhorst |
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| 13:04.23 | shreyas | any of u got any feedback from mentors |
| 13:06.15 | sheki | i did not get any |
| 13:06.20 | sheki | @shreyas you? |
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| 13:06.31 | sheki | what organization have you applied for |
| 13:06.36 | shreyas | nope, is that a bad sign |
| 13:06.41 | sheki | i dont know |
| 13:07.02 | sheki | on the groups they say it will take time for mentors to go through all the applications |
| 13:07.07 | sheki | you can wait till the 20th |
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| 13:07.27 | sheki | @shreyas is your application public? |
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| 13:11.43 | bawr | carols: So, did any/many orgs give up some of their slots voluntarily? |
| 13:12.13 | carols | bawr: no, not many have actually given slots up yet. quite a few have said they might and don't know yet if they actually can, though. |
| 13:12.34 | yonij | !numapps |
| 13:13.42 | Lennie | The bot is sad :( |
| 13:13.55 | sheki | are there specific number of slots assigned to each orgn? |
| 13:13.56 | Ivanovic | i'd expect this to maybe happen around the weekend |
| 13:14.07 | sheki | is it the same for all orgs or different for diff orgs? |
| 13:14.15 | Ivanovic | since by then most orgs should have started reviewing and got some "good idea" which ones are promising and the likes |
| 13:14.29 | Ivanovic | sheki: the numbers differ for every org |
| 13:14.51 | sheki | can the numbers be revealed now? |
| 13:14.53 | Ivanovic | dependsing on how many students the org can take (the org tells google a max number) and the ratio of proposals submitted |
| 13:15.06 | Ivanovic | no, they can not be revealed and won't be revealed till the 26th |
| 13:15.12 | sheki | ok thanks |
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| 13:32.09 | nfl | vimzard: will you be a mentor this time? |
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| 13:34.37 | nfl | saw your post on yuvipanda's thread |
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| 13:44.34 | dreimark | !worldtime |
| 13:44.56 | dreimark | !time |
| 13:45.11 | dreimark | where is our bot ? |
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| 13:45.52 | Lennie | it has died :9 |
| 13:46.06 | mlankhorst | panics |
| 13:46.09 | Lennie | It was hovering above Dutch airspace |
| 13:46.17 | Lennie | which will be closed soon due to volcanic ashes |
| 13:46.49 | thebolt | hehe |
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| 13:48.28 | thebolt | swedish airspace will be totally closed by 2200 |
| 13:48.33 | thebolt | (and most of it by 1800) |
| 13:48.38 | Lennie | 1900 here |
| 13:48.44 | Ian_Corne | Belgian is already closing I think |
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| 13:48.51 | thebolt | the not-so-nice thing is that last time that volaco erupted it lasted for a year... :P |
| 13:48.52 | Ian_Corne | not that it's of any importance :p |
| 13:48.59 | Lennie | thebolt: really? |
| 13:49.03 | Ian_Corne | ouch |
| 13:49.05 | thebolt | Lennie: yep, in 1821 |
| 13:49.07 | Ian_Corne | that's alot of dirt |
| 13:49.14 | Lennie | lol |
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| 13:49.21 | Lennie | can you imagine a year without air traffic :P |
| 13:49.23 | thebolt | hehe |
| 13:49.31 | thebolt | the dip after sept 11 will be nothing :) |
| 13:49.41 | kai | yeah |
| 13:49.46 | thebolt | hnm.. would mean i have to take a train to southern europe to get to taiwan in September ;) |
| 13:49.56 | Ian_Corne | or by boat? |
| 13:50.04 | kai | thebolt: drop by on your way |
| 13:50.10 | thebolt | Ian_Corne: probably still faster to take 24 hour train south and then fly ;) |
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| 13:50.20 | Ian_Corne | haha, yes |
| 13:50.31 | thebolt | kai: heh, hopefulyl I don't have to (and I hope I don't have to transfer anywhere close to where you live) |
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| 13:52.22 | thebolt | i wish i could drop by on quite a few friends in middle-europe before leaving though.. but no time or money (esp money) :/ |
| 13:55.27 | dberkholz | carols: what time do you need to know tomorrow whether we're giving any slots back? i just saw a date in your email |
| 13:56.11 | carols | dberkholz: time isn't too firm. i understand a lot of discussions need to happen before anyone can decide. |
| 13:56.27 | jkwood | carols: Loud and clear, and thank you (in response to your mail.) =) |
| 13:56.40 | carols | jkwood: you're welcome. :-) |
| 13:57.08 | carols | dberkholz: ultimately it could be as late as next wednesday before the irc meeting, but i'd like orgs to know how many slots they have when they start deduplication. |
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| 13:58.18 | dberkholz | carols: yeah, we basically need to have final rankings before we can say decisively how many slots we're going to use. a couple of the ideas may not have gotten any proposals good enough to fund, but we're just not sure yet |
| 13:58.45 | carols | dberkholz: understood. im sure if you were willing to give slots back, the community would thank you no matter when it happened :-) |
| 13:59.32 | kai | same here |
| 13:59.46 | kai | which reminds me that I need to get back at some mentors |
| 13:59.55 | kai | but today I'm chasing from one meeting to the next |
| 14:00.06 | dberkholz | i'm also coming up with some ideas for improving melange for admins ... bugs to be filed soon |
| 14:00.16 | carols | awesome! :-) |
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| 14:01.07 | dberkholz | we'd like the idea of grouping proposals so that only 'n' of a group of 'N' could be accepted |
| 14:01.08 | kai | oh, I'd also suggest that while socinfo is gone, a couple of people can just help out thanks to aliases set in the irc client of your choice |
| 14:01.51 | dberkholz | also, i'd really like a new screen to look at mentor load (how many proposals/mentor) and add some notes on what i need to do |
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| 14:03.41 | dberkholz | i think there was one other thing, too. oh yeah, having a separate list of proposals i'm following vs all proposals |
| 14:03.54 | gvallarelli | Hi GSoccers |
| 14:04.35 | Lennie | dberkholz: I don't know about the last, since there can already be a lot of them, you a better off asking for a star feature :) |
| 14:04.51 | Lennie | dberkholz: So that it can be shown in the existing lists |
| 14:05.29 | dberkholz | sure, that would work too =) |
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| 14:05.35 | kai | Lennie: if that automatically subscribes you to updates without having to open every proposal, I'm all for that :) |
| 14:05.48 | Lennie | kai: It is actually possible to do that now |
| 14:05.55 | Lennie | just need someone to actually do it :P |
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| 14:06.13 | Lennie | and most importantly |
| 14:06.21 | Lennie | we need a star figure that is free :P |
| 14:06.35 | kai | apache2, right? |
| 14:06.38 | Lennie | yes |
| 14:06.42 | kai | drat |
| 14:06.49 | Lennie | if only it was GPL :P? |
| 14:07.12 | kai | use programmer art |
| 14:07.16 | Ian_Corne | use the same as gmail uses? |
| 14:08.11 | kai | I'd send you one, but I'm not signing that CLA as long as the paperwork takes up more time than the feature I want to contribute :) |
| 14:08.17 | kai | Ian_Corne: probably not free |
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| 14:08.45 | Ian_Corne | kai: but you're google :p |
| 14:08.51 | Ian_Corne | isn't it google's? |
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| 14:10.04 | thebolt | Ian_Corne: but melange isn't google.. it is foss |
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| 14:10.58 | Ian_Corne | aha :) |
| 14:11.53 | Lennie | :) |
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| 14:12.05 | Lennie | Great that now another one knows that Melange isn't Google :P |
| 14:12.09 | Lennie | yes send one Kai |
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| 14:27.32 | kai | Ian_Corne: neither me nor melange is google |
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| 14:28.04 | Lennie | well said :P |
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| 14:29.21 | kai | sorry for the slow reply, we just had to evacuate the building at $dayjob |
| 14:29.42 | Lennie | training evacuation? |
| 14:29.46 | Lennie | or real deal |
| 14:29.51 | Lennie | if so, wassup :D |
| 14:30.49 | kai | well, it wasn't a fire drill, but no real deal either |
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| 14:31.29 | kai | the smoke detectors we have here also detect things like steam, dust, and temperature |
| 14:31.39 | Lennie | hehe |
| 14:31.42 | Lennie | non-smoke stuff :P |
| 14:32.52 | Chainsaw | Construction work in data centres is always tricky because of it. |
| 14:33.12 | Chainsaw | Generally they have plastic sheeting out and try to make an almost air-tight seal. |
| 14:33.24 | Chainsaw | And then one of them has to go to the toilet, make tea, etc. |
| 14:33.46 | Gangadhar | !next |
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| 14:34.03 | Gangadhar | !dead |
| 14:34.06 | Lennie | bod is dead :) |
| 14:34.08 | Lennie | bot* |
| 14:34.17 | kai | and whoever installed these things didn't consider that in a room where we serilize laboratory equipment at temperatures around 180-240 Celsius, we tend to get a steam and temperatures of around 180-240 celsius |
| 14:34.19 | Chainsaw | Gangadhar: Hey, I'm not a stand-up comedian. |
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| 14:34.36 | Lennie | kai: nice :P |
| 14:34.38 | kai | Gangadhar: See the timeline at http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#timeline |
| 14:34.58 | kai | s/a steam/a lot of/ |
| 14:35.01 | Gangadhar | Kai: Ok Thanx |
| 14:35.19 | kai | so I just evacuated from the 10th floor for nothing but sports |
| 14:35.23 | Lennie | well |
| 14:35.30 | Lennie | you had your daily exercise then :) |
| 14:35.42 | kai | Lennie: but I do this in the morning and evening anyway |
| 14:35.51 | Lennie | hmm |
| 14:36.23 | Chainsaw | kai: It adds something though, doesn't it? Sirens blaring, people screaming... it's very motivating. |
| 14:36.53 | kai | Chainsaw: sirens blaring, for sure. I couldn't hear if people were screaming, because there's sirens in the stairway |
| 14:37.16 | kai | not as if you'd not hear the hallway sirens in the stairway anyway |
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| 14:37.40 | kai | anyway, I'm glad my reflexes worked |
| 14:37.49 | kai | I did a git push before leaving my desk ;) |
| 14:38.23 | skbohra | omg kai = kblin |
| 14:39.08 | kai | right |
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| 14:39.20 | kai | my whois info kind of leaks that information :) |
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| 14:39.46 | skbohra | hehe , I was just wondering |
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| 14:41.05 | skbohra | my bad |
| 14:42.00 | codeorange | i heard Berkman got some slots :) |
| 14:43.16 | skbohra | every org gets atleast a couple of |
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| 14:46.42 | Lennie | well |
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| 14:46.47 | Lennie | depends on how much an org desires :) |
| 14:46.49 | Lennie | if it only wants 1 :P |
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| 14:48.24 | kimelto | morning! |
| 14:49.24 | skbohra | Lennie: thats rare i think |
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| 14:56.28 | jkwood | That would require they 1.) Were very picky about applications 2.) Very protective of their code 3.) Didn't get much in the way of applicants 4.) Had very specialized requirements |
| 14:57.05 | ojwb | didn't get much in the way of quality applicants |
| 14:57.27 | ojwb | 100 awful applications isn't much help |
| 14:57.31 | jkwood | That falls under 1.) |
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| 14:57.45 | thebolt | nah |
| 14:57.57 | ojwb | no really - rejecting awful applications isn't "very picky" |
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| 15:02.01 | jkwood | ojwb: I won't argue that, but not accepting applicants when you're guaranteed two slots is. |
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| 15:02.14 | jkwood | Also "Didn' get much" can denote either number or quality. |
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| 15:03.26 | ojwb | no, it's stupid and selfish to accept an applicant just because you have a slot |
| 15:03.41 | ojwb | another org could make better use of it |
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| 15:04.36 | jkwood | Not necessarily. |
| 15:05.28 | anth_x | pretty assuredly. most orgs get more high-quality applications than they get slots. |
| 15:06.14 | ojwb | it's also rather a waste of mentoring time to chose a poor quality student - they're likely to need more time and less likely to produce useful code |
| 15:07.15 | annag | ojwb: +1 |
| 15:07.17 | jsd | nods in agreement with ojwb |
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| 15:08.16 | jkwood | I don't disagree with any of that, I just have a rather hard time believing anyone would actually be included in GSoC and not have more quality applicants than slots. |
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| 15:08.31 | ojwb | it may seem like gsoc is a way to "get code written for free", but that's a bit unrealistic |
| 15:08.41 | ojwb | every year several orgs give back slots though |
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| 15:09.16 | jsd | jkwood: you should take a look at some of the apps that we got |
| 15:09.17 | ojwb | i've not been involved with such an org, so I don't know what the picture there looks like |
| 15:09.40 | Ivanovic | a possible case where you give slots back can also be this one: |
| 15:09.42 | skbohra | PCIT is one such org I am sure |
| 15:09.47 | Ivanovic | you are a small org and just have two mentors |
| 15:09.48 | jsd | being a mentor is lot of work |
| 15:09.55 | ojwb | but the last two years, we had about one more good app than inital slot count |
| 15:09.57 | Ivanovic | not every mentor can always mentor every project proposal |
| 15:09.59 | jkwood | Well... let me amend that. I can understand some of the umbrella orgs being in such a position. |
| 15:10.01 | ojwb | so I can well believe it |
| 15:10.06 | skbohra | PCIT dont have ml, irc or forum |
| 15:10.20 | skbohra | i would be surprised if they get any slot |
| 15:10.36 | Ivanovic | so the org receives the "good" proposals only for "mentor 1", the proposals for stuff that "mentor 2" could mentor are *bad* |
| 15:11.05 | Ivanovic | since mentor1 can, due to "mentoring takes time!!!" only manage to mentor 1 student, would you still use both slots? |
| 15:11.18 | Ivanovic | yes, even if the org had 10 good proposals, this can happen |
| 15:11.47 | kai | jkwood: I know some orgs that had years where they gave back over 50% of their slots |
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| 15:12.16 | jsd | Ivanovic: it totally depends on the orgs motives |
| 15:12.18 | kai | also, what Ivanovic said |
| 15:12.27 | jsd | it totally depends on what the students want |
| 15:12.29 | kai | there's orgs where not all mentors can mentor all proposals |
| 15:12.34 | |Kev| | We went from 10 slots one year to only asking for 6 the next, fwiw. |
| 15:12.37 | jsd | i guess its a partnership |
| 15:12.39 | Ivanovic | jsd: no, it does not completely depend on the students! |
| 15:13.06 | Ivanovic | jsd: if the proposals you get are plain bad, it would be a waste of your own time to mentor this amount of slots anyway |
| 15:13.11 | |Kev| | I don't think it's ever been a slot-grabbing exercise for the orgs. |
| 15:13.17 | dho_plan9 | Nope. |
| 15:13.27 | ojwb | perhaps for the odd org it has been |
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| 15:13.37 | Ivanovic | and this is nothing about the "big picture", this is all about being selfish and looking what you got |
| 15:13.50 | jsd | sorry, i mean it completely depends on motives |
| 15:14.00 | jsd | and then it depends on what the mating ends up being |
| 15:14.01 | kai | shrugs |
| 15:14.05 | jsd | match for match |
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| 15:14.13 | Ivanovic | if it would just frustrate you later on and you think "okay, the student won't stay anyway and if i did the work myself it would have been faster, too", why should in this case a student be accepted for a project? |
| 15:14.14 | kai | it's also very selfish to not pick up bad students :) |
| 15:14.28 | kai | Ivanovic++ |
| 15:14.32 | jsd | that i totally agree with |
| 15:14.34 | Ivanovic | mentoring, even rather good students, requires time |
| 15:14.44 | jsd | but i'm sure there are orgs and students in it for just the money |
| 15:14.54 | Ivanovic | orgs for the money? |
| 15:14.55 | |Kev| | I'd be amazed to find any orgs in it for the money. |
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| 15:15.04 | Ivanovic | sorry, but 500$ is not really much money for the orgs! |
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| 15:15.22 | kai | some orgs even pass on the money to the mentors |
| 15:15.23 | ojwb | for the thought of funded development, perhaps |
| 15:15.28 | jsd | $500 x slots |
| 15:15.32 | jsd | + free coding |
| 15:15.37 | jsd | = lump sum |
| 15:15.42 | kai | jsd: again, it's not free coding |
| 15:15.44 | dho_plan9 | jsd: - failed projects |
| 15:15.50 | Ivanovic | jsd: it is far from free coding |
| 15:16.04 | kai | it's very expensive coding |
| 15:16.10 | Ivanovic | jsd: since the mentor time would, if not used for mentoring, be spent on coding by the mentor |
| 15:16.15 | jsd | i would totally agree |
| 15:16.18 | jsd | its not free coding |
| 15:16.24 | jsd | in fact its quite a bit of work |
| 15:16.27 | |Kev| | There aren't many projects where the mentors couldn't have written the code quicker and better than the students, in the time they spent mentoring etc., I suspect. |
| 15:16.34 | kai | yeah |
| 15:16.39 | jsd | but the ones that approach it from that angle think it is |
| 15:16.40 | Ivanovic | exactly, |Kev| |
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| 15:17.01 | kai | jsd: there's two reasons why I mentor |
| 15:17.01 | dho_plan9 | jsd: I haven't met anybody approaching it from a different perspective |
| 15:17.06 | kai | ok, three |
| 15:17.07 | ojwb | I don't think I could have written the code quicker or better than my student did last year, let alone my own time |
| 15:17.10 | Ivanovic | though what *is* a valid and selvish approach is winning new long term contributors by the mentoring time invested |
| 15:17.26 | |Kev| | (There certainly are some students who do vastly better in their time than the mentors would have in the mentoring time, though) |
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| 15:18.07 | Ivanovic | and those students are what makes summer of code itself worth the time required for it |
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| 15:18.15 | jsd | kai: and those three are? |
| 15:18.16 | Ivanovic | at least that is my point of view |
| 15:18.31 | Ivanovic | since the time till the accepted students are announced does use *lots* of resources |
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| 15:19.01 | Ivanovic | you got to talk with the students, review their applications, discuss ideas, often several times since you discuss the same base concept again and again with different students, all the likes |
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| 15:19.32 | kai | jsd: 1) getting long term contributors for my project 2) introducing students to open source coding the way I got into this whole mess 3) t-shirt |
| 15:19.54 | jkwood | kai++ |
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| 15:20.02 | dberkholz | i guess the question re your time investment, is whether the student is 8x less productive than you. if <8x, you mentor 5h/wk and student works 40, then it's a net win on code |
| 15:20.11 | jsd | chuckles after reading reason 3 |
| 15:20.30 | Ivanovic | kai: yeah, can just agree with this |
| 15:20.36 | ojwb | dberkholz: and I guess a factor for "chance of failure" |
| 15:20.38 | kai | jsd: my email signature says "will code for cotton" for a good reason |
| 15:20.42 | Ivanovic | dberkholz: but as mentor you invest more than 5h per week |
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| 15:21.09 | kai | dberkholz: I disagre |
| 15:21.13 | Ivanovic | at least in the time *before* the students are selected you invest almost all your "project time" in helping students work on the proposals, improve things and discuss |
| 15:21.26 | dho_plan9 | For me: 1) I like teaching. 2) I like proselytizing Plan 9. 3) I like free t-shirts. 4) It's a resume booster. |
| 15:21.41 | jsd | i work for a org that has a lot of interns - students mostly, we are after all an academic org |
| 15:21.59 | dberkholz | i'm not even talking about the other benefits, just imagining someone who only cares about a summer's worth of code |
| 15:22.00 | jsd | and the reasons that we mentor, not only for gsoc, are many |
| 15:22.03 | ojwb | Ivanovic: though at least the first time around, that does tend to drive improvements in "getting started" docs for potential developers |
| 15:22.29 | dberkholz | Ivanovic: well, that depends on how many students are applying for "your" idea |
| 15:22.31 | kai | dberkholz: the mentor would start spending his time working on the feature right away, the student spends a lot of time getting to know the code, getting his coding style synced up with the project... |
| 15:22.32 | jsd | but i would say the overarching reason is to spark interest in something we think is worthwhile |
| 15:22.34 | Ivanovic | ojwb: the main work is really discussing the projects |
| 15:22.48 | jsd | and to ignite a passion in the student |
| 15:22.58 | Ivanovic | dberkholz: at wesnoth we got 4 possible mentors this year (plus the normal "other" devs in that of course answer questions, too) |
| 15:22.59 | jsd | be that for foss |
| 15:23.01 | ojwb | Ivanovic: yes, I'm just noting that there are some side benefits |
| 15:23.05 | kai | I'm not complaining or anything like that |
| 15:23.22 | Ivanovic | and in the roughly last month we have not managed to get many improvements in wesnoth itself done due to the time the whole chan invests in soc |
| 15:23.32 | kai | but I'm certain that we don't do it for the money or "free code" |
| 15:23.49 | Ivanovic | and yes, if we get long term contributors out of it, the time is well spent |
| 15:24.17 | kai | right, without gsoc, I'd probably have much more of s3 build with waf |
| 15:24.28 | Ivanovic | if we were just after the coding progress, it would be faster for us to get stuff done ourselfs and hope for the regular people that come around and join as devs |
| 15:24.48 | dho_plan9 | The nice thing is when students come back to be mentors |
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| 15:25.45 | kai | yeah |
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| 15:26.03 | kai | pats his back ;) |
| 15:26.13 | Ivanovic | :) |
| 15:26.38 | jkwood | Ivanovic: I wouldn't call a new release "Not much done." |
| 15:27.10 | Ivanovic | jkwood: you got no idea regarding the problems still left that we don't have the resources at the moment to fix... |
| 15:27.37 | dberkholz | Ivanovic: for us it's harder to gauge how much slowdown we get during evaluations, because there's just so many people in the project |
| 15:27.52 | dberkholz | Ivanovic: we've got 30-something mentors signed up and ~250 developers overall |
| 15:27.59 | Ivanovic | if the last two weeks would not have been the time with students asking questions and improving their proposals, 1.8.1 would probably be out now |
| 15:28.14 | jkwood | We're in the same boat, but we're already at a net gain due to students contributing code. |
| 15:28.26 | zooko | Folks: we want to change a student's project from what he originally proposed to a different project which is more suitable to his experience and his mentor's experience. |
| 15:28.28 | Ivanovic | dberkholz: in wesnoth we just got a rather small core group doing most stuff |
| 15:28.34 | zooko | It isn't possible to edit the Proposal itself at this point. |
| 15:28.42 | Ivanovic | zooko: post the "new proposal" as comment |
| 15:28.48 | zooko | Ivanovic: thanks |
| 15:28.58 | dberkholz | jkwood: which org? |
| 15:29.00 | Ivanovic | zooko: IIRC it is possible to update the summary once the list of accepted projects is out |
| 15:29.55 | jkwood | FreedroidRPG. Our core dev team is only 5, and all of us have been working hard talking to students the entire time. |
| 15:30.11 | Ivanovic | jkwood: sadly the problematic areas are not the "easy and simple" things, so it would be really suprising if the students sent in patches for those |
| 15:30.15 | dho_plan9 | We |
| 15:30.37 | Ivanovic | and yeah, one of our main people for the problematic areas is a mentor, too (and thus also doing proposal review and all that) |
| 15:30.44 | dho_plan9 | bleh. We are really distributed, and a lot of our development process is pretty opaque (historically, and for other reasons as well) |
| 15:31.10 | |Kev| | Ivanovic: Ah, you're a Wesnoth bod? Thanks to the team, I like Wesnoth :) |
| 15:31.11 | dho_plan9 | So for us GSoC is a great boon because it is actually a period that we can gauge how productive we are |
| 15:31.34 | Ivanovic | beside this our "monster coder" (aka SoC student 2009, mentor 2010, one coder to kill the bugs, ... aka crab_) is the most active one working with the students, basically helping each student |
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| 15:32.24 | jkwood | Maybe he'll have a good chance of finding the next one. |
| 15:33.00 | Ivanovic | it looks like we don't have one as exceptional has him this year, but who knows... |
| 15:33.09 | aghisla | great - i was thinking of something like "penguin mentoring", i.e. all students can receive help from all mentors if their own is busy or not able to answer specific questions |
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| 15:33.27 | aghisla | each student still have his reference mentor |
| 15:33.35 | Ivanovic | at least it is easy to see in the size of the chatlogs how they got "a little bigger" for #wesnoth-dev once the orgs were announced: http://wesnoth.org/irclogs/2010/03/ |
| 15:34.13 | Ivanovic | aghisla: that is what we do anyway, not only for soc students but for everyone new |
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| 15:39.40 | |Kev| | Ivanovic: I hadn't realised Wesnoth was out for iPhone - where does the money go? |
| 15:39.57 | Ivanovic | a part to apple, a part to the one porting and a part to us |
| 15:40.06 | Ivanovic | the main part to the one porting |
| 15:40.23 | |Kev| | Is that amicable? |
| 15:40.24 | Ivanovic | since it was a huge amount of work and he has to live from something... |
| 15:40.33 | Ivanovic | what do you mean with "amicable"? |
| 15:41.04 | |Kev| | Well, unless this is the result of some horrible friction in the Wesnoth community, I'll be clicking 'buy' in about 60 seconds. |
| 15:41.12 | Ivanovic | no, you won't |
| 15:41.21 | Ivanovic | the porter does regular updates adding content and the likes |
| 15:41.30 | Ivanovic | even has an official thread in our forums that he monitors |
| 15:41.53 | |Kev| | So you mean "Yes, all is good, go ahead and buy", yeah? |
| 15:41.56 | Ivanovic | that is: personally i had a chance to test the iphone version at fosdem since another wesnoth dev has an iphone |
| 15:42.14 | Ivanovic | and personally i did not like it, things are to small and the likes to really have fun |
| 15:42.25 | Ivanovic | you don't see enough for the map resulting in lots of scrolling required |
| 15:42.27 | |Kev| | Oh. |
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| 15:42.32 | |Kev| | That's a shame. |
| 15:42.35 | Catfish_Man | yeah, the game does seem pretty large scale for it |
| 15:42.39 | Catfish_Man | iPad version might be more fun :) |
| 15:42.48 | Ivanovic | but from what i heard it is among the bast games available for the iphone anyway! |
| 15:42.49 | |Kev| | clicks on the 1.8 download instead. |
| 15:43.00 | Ivanovic | and yeah, the iphone version is most likely a great thing |
| 15:43.17 | Ivanovic | that is: i got a normal tablet pc and yes, playing wesnoth on the touchscreen is *fun* |
| 15:43.26 | |Kev| | Most games (read: I only have about 4) that I have for iPhone are silly-scale games, like tower defense, or tetris-like |
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| 15:43.49 | Ivanovic | IIRC there is some test version of wesnoth available for the iphone, too |
| 15:43.58 | kai | |Kev|: get the scummvm :) |
| 15:43.59 | Ivanovic | you could fetch that to see if you enjoy it on the phone |
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| 15:44.21 | Ivanovic | and yes, i am really looking forward to playing on my openpandora |
| 15:44.34 | Ivanovic | wesnoth will probably be really nice on it, too |
| 15:44.47 | kai | anyway time to get home |
| 15:45.15 | Lennie | Kev |
| 15:45.22 | Lennie | You should play Plants vs Zombies :P |
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| 15:46.05 | Ivanovic | |Kev|: regarding the iphone port, here is the official forum thread: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28777 |
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| 15:46.13 | |Kev| | Ivanovic: thanks. |
| 15:46.16 | Ivanovic | and yeah, in general (strange enough) the users seem to like it on iphone |
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| 15:48.30 | |Kev| | Lennie: why's that? |
| 15:48.36 | Lennie | It's awesome :P |
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| 15:48.47 | Lennie | It is kinda tower-defense based |
| 15:49.07 | Lennie | you plant different kinds of plants in your garden to fight off zombies |
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| 15:49.25 | Catfish_Man | it is rather a lot of fun; haven't tried it on the phone, but I played it obsessively on my laptop |
| 15:49.52 | Lennie | :D |
| 15:50.01 | Lennie | the credit song is nice :P |
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| 16:32.46 | _Samo | will it be possible to add co mentors in projects? |
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| 16:32.58 | _Samo | co-mentors |
| 16:33.17 | Chainsaw | _Samo: Co-mentorship is not officially recognised, no. |
| 16:33.26 | _Samo | I see |
| 16:33.34 | Chainsaw | _Samo: But that doesn't mean you can't organise things that way if it works well for your organisation. |
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| 16:33.55 | _Samo | ok |
| 16:34.00 | Chainsaw | _Samo: There will just be a "lead mentor" that does the paperwork. |
| 16:36.17 | Mek | I understood that comentors are officially supported in melange this year |
| 16:36.29 | Mek | after projects are accepted you should be able to add more mentors to projects |
| 16:36.37 | Chainsaw | Mek: Ah, that's good. |
| 16:37.07 | Chainsaw | _Samo: I'm working from what I remember of SoC 2009 here. So take Mek's word for it, not mine. |
| 16:37.52 | _Samo | thanks for the info Mek and Chainsaw |
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| 16:49.12 | emmanuelp | !timeline |
| 16:49.54 | aghisla | the bot is still on vacation |
| 16:50.15 | emmanuelp | lol extended spring break? |
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| 17:14.37 | bawr | So... the official mentor guide says that it's best to assign two mentors per student, and yet co-mentoring is not recognised? Fun. :) |
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| 17:18.13 | r0bby_ | bawr: 2 mentors in case one goes AWOL |
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| 17:32.44 | maheshs | How many slots generally a organization gets? |
| 17:33.01 | |Kev| | 'some' |
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| 17:34.07 | maheshs | Any specific threshold? |
| 17:34.27 | schumaml | >=0, <=1000 |
| 17:34.39 | maheshs | Wow :D |
| 17:34.43 | maheshs | 1000 is good. |
| 17:34.47 | maheshs | ;) |
| 17:34.58 | jkwood | Not for those of us who don't need 1000. ;) |
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| 17:35.43 | kblin | I'm happy if I could handle (and had the proposals) for 10 |
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| 17:36.31 | maheshs_ | Which is so lucky community to have 1000 slots? :) |
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| 17:39.49 | dzhus | If my application still got no "public reviews", chances are that org is not interested in my project? |
| 17:40.43 | MatthewWilkes | dzhus: No, it means they have nothing they want to tell or ask you |
| 17:41.37 | Arc | we are still early in the process, too early to assume anything. |
| 17:42.25 | jkwood | dzhus: To quote someone probably famous and or anonymous, "No news is good news." |
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| 17:42.25 | Arc | the largest orgs are umbrella orgs, Apache and Python for example, which get between 30 and 40 slots a year |
| 17:42.43 | MatthewWilkes | The top rated proposal at Plone has no public reviews, for example |
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| 17:46.25 | jkridner | personally, I think it is good to stay in contact with the mentors to see if they have questions all the way through the process. |
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| 17:47.06 | skbohra | dzhus: i didnt get any reviews on melange last year, still I got selected |
| 17:47.21 | skbohra | dzhus: and nothing this year as well :D |
| 17:47.30 | skbohra | so I am still hopeful |
| 17:48.21 | YuviPanda_ | my mentor asked a lot of questions before i submitted the application |
| 17:48.29 | nmudgal | skbohra: me too without any comments yet ! |
| 17:48.34 | YuviPanda_ | the application went through quite a bit of transformation because of him |
| 17:48.42 | YuviPanda_ | but nothing after that |
| 17:48.46 | YuviPanda_ | /me wonders if that's good or bad |
| 17:48.50 | YuviPanda_ | wonders if that's good or bad |
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| 17:50.47 | maheshs | Even my app is not reviewed. Hope the(bluez) is intrested. |
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| 17:50.54 | dzhus | When I first proposed a project I got no feedback on ML and some feedback on IRC (from those whom I consider potential mentor(s)), and no feedback on my actual application makes me think that just there's no one interested to mentor or discuss this. |
| 17:51.19 | YuviPanda_ | dzhus: same thing happened to me on Django - I didn't apply because nobody showed interest |
| 17:51.36 | emmanuelp | Haven't got any comments / reviews on my proposals either, but I did get some comments directly from the org through IRC, email etc |
| 17:52.13 | maheshs | Anyone applied to Bluez? |
| 17:52.25 | YuviPanda_ | anyone who *has* had a lot of comments on their proposal? |
| 17:52.48 | dzhus | Last year I picked a project from Ideas list provided by org and started discussing it with my future mentor long before applications period started, and he helped me to write a more concise application |
| 17:52.52 | schumaml | many projects of our org have just one comment: please come to irc for an interview |
| 17:52.55 | smtms | a lot? like being asked 5 times to do the same? |
| 17:53.16 | YuviPanda_ | dzhus: same thing with me this year :) |
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| 17:53.37 | schumaml | afaik none of the students have responded (the top-ranking ones are held be students who contacted us before soc, anyway) |
| 17:54.38 | emmanuelp | schumaml, what org do you represent? |
| 17:55.04 | schumaml | gimp |
| 17:55.30 | schumaml | (and I checked that our mentors added public comments :) |
| 17:55.37 | emmanuelp | cool, love gimp |
| 17:56.03 | maheshs | Hail gimp and its mentors ;) |
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| 17:56.24 | schumaml | we're also handling gegl projects (GEneirc Grapics Library) |
| 17:56.40 | schumaml | without the typo |
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| 17:58.14 | jkwood | schumaml: Props on whatever release I'm using now, seems to be much more usable than it was for a while (for me.) |
| 17:59.38 | skbohra | schumaml: heard about one window gimp , any time near ? |
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| 18:00.12 | schumaml | well, 2.8 |
| 18:00.39 | schumaml | and all sorts of problems with that (not technical, just $%&/ "journalists") |
| 18:00.57 | schumaml | some make their readers think that multi-windows will be gone for good |
| 18:01.15 | schumaml | some claim that 2.8 has been delayed since Oct 2009 because of this |
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| 18:02.26 | schumaml | question: "sources for these claims?!" replies: "oh I thought..." |
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| 18:03.04 | skbohra | hehe |
| 18:03.27 | schumaml | the most polarizing change will be the strict distinction of save and export, though |
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| 18:06.06 | r0bby_ | I dunno how mine is rated -- I just know i've gotten some positive feedback on it |
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| 18:13.03 | emmanuelp | same here |
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| 18:13.50 | emmanuelp | one of the orgs asked me for references (phone numbers & emails), I assume they at least must have liked my proposal a bit, otherwise why ask for references of the guy who wrote a proposal you didn't like at all |
| 18:14.34 | YuviPanda_ | my org hasn't really contacted me at all - haven't asked for any details :| |
| 18:15.02 | schumaml | can mean anything |
| 18:15.49 | schumaml | it's not forbidden to ask them, you know |
| 18:16.08 | YuviPanda_ | schumaml: I do keep in touch with the person who is supposed to mentor me |
| 18:16.20 | cygal | our mentoring organization interviewed every student that provided a serious application |
| 18:16.20 | skbohra | schumaml: my mentor said have patience :D |
| 18:16.25 | r0bby_ | YuviPanda_: communicate with them |
| 18:16.28 | emmanuelp | yeah, I applied for 3 different orgs, only 1 of them has contacted me, I have had to ask the other 2 myself |
| 18:16.28 | Ophiuchi | but the answer may very well be "we don't know yet" |
| 18:16.31 | schumaml | the won't and must not tell you if you will be accpeted - that is announced by google - but at least a "no chance!" should be possible, though unfortunate |
| 18:16.40 | r0bby_ | I got the "there were no proposals like yours" |
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| 18:17.25 | r0bby_ | (Mine was very carefully thought out -- i included a carefully thought out project plan and user stories |
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| 18:18.13 | schumaml | we got one proposal that had many good ideas, unfortunately for the student most of these are already present in the current development version :/ |
| 18:18.32 | emmanuelp | r0bby what org did you apply for? |
| 18:18.35 | r0bby_ | schumaml: that shows lack of initative really |
| 18:18.51 | r0bby_ | (he didn't bother to look at what was there prior to applying) |
| 18:18.57 | schumaml | r0bby_: we could advertize them more on our part |
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| 18:19.09 | r0bby_ | could have, but still |
| 18:19.16 | r0bby_ | he should have communicated first |
| 18:19.34 | schumaml | http://www.chromecode.com/ has some of it, but not all |
| 18:19.37 | r0bby_ | emmanuelp: sahana-py (python version of sahana) |
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| 18:20.08 | emmanuelp | r0bby: cool, props mate. |
| 18:20.20 | emmanuelp | hashing out these proposals is harder than you think, good work |
| 18:21.51 | schumaml | and the interface is not helping with that... |
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| 18:21.53 | r0bby_ | emmanuelp: it wasn't easy |
| 18:21.59 | r0bby_ | hardest part was the project plan |
| 18:22.11 | r0bby_ | it forces you to sit down and think "how can I do this?" |
| 18:22.19 | schumaml | but that's why melange is applying as well |
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| 18:22.43 | r0bby_ | I was smart i didnt have to fight with TinyMCE |
| 18:22.57 | r0bby_ | I typed my propsoal in a google soc then copy/pasted it over :) |
| 18:23.07 | r0bby_ | a/soc/doc/ |
| 18:23.11 | r0bby_ | s/soc/doc/ |
| 18:23.27 | Ivanovic | r0bby_: some of our students were even smarter |
| 18:23.30 | schumaml | yes, the ppor quality of the editor really surprised me |
| 18:23.35 | schumaml | poor |
| 18:23.37 | Ivanovic | they just wrote the stuff nicely in our wiki |
| 18:23.45 | schumaml | I got used to them being quite capable |
| 18:23.51 | Ivanovic | leaving a short summary in teh application form together with a link to their wiki page |
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| 18:24.30 | smtms | is Google ok with this method? |
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| 18:24.43 | schumaml | I'd really like a static overview of the org's proposals, though |
| 18:24.53 | r0bby_ | smtms: google can't stop me |
| 18:25.04 | r0bby_ | I pasted it into melange :) |
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| 18:25.15 | smtms | r0bby_, I am not intersted in you |
| 18:25.28 | r0bby_ | smtms: don't make me slap you |
| 18:25.28 | schumaml | e.g. a page that's updated *on change* and not rebuilt by javascript every time I load the page |
| 18:25.30 | r0bby_ | I'll do it |
| 18:25.35 | YuviPanda_ | wrote it in markdown, put it in a gist, showed it to his probable mentor and iterated |
| 18:25.38 | r0bby_ | puts a brick in his manbag |
| 18:25.44 | robbyoconnor | :) |
| 18:25.48 | emmanuelp | lol |
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| 18:26.16 | YuviPanda_ | so I had a version controlled application :D |
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| 18:26.29 | robbyoconnor | YuviPanda_: HAHAHAHHAA |
| 18:26.36 | robbyoconnor | so did i! |
| 18:26.42 | robbyoconnor | Google Docs has a revision history :) |
| 18:26.48 | smtms | gently pushes robbyoconnor off the bridge |
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| 18:27.02 | YuviPanda_ | robbyoconnor: meh, you can't git clone from Google Docs :P |
| 18:27.03 | robbyoconnor | takes smtms with him |
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| 18:27.20 | robbyoconnor | why the hell go through the overkill? |
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| 18:28.08 | YuviPanda_ | robbyoconnor: gist is just a pastebin with a git backend, just so lame dorks can show off on IRC channels about being able to git clone text documents ;) |
| 18:28.22 | Ophiuchi | robbyoconnor: heh! let go of my student candidate :-P |
| 18:28.42 | robbyoconnor | ahhh right YuviPanda_ |
| 18:28.42 | robbyoconnor | :) |
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| 18:29.03 | robbyoconnor | Ophiuchi: he pushed me I simply used him for leverage |
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| 18:29.43 | robbyoconnor | Ophiuchi: I suppose this is akin to: "he ran into my knife" |
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| 18:34.26 | robbyoconnor | Ophiuchi: so he applied to your org? what org? :) |
| 18:34.35 | robbyoconnor | netbsd i see |
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| 18:46.56 | robbyoconnor | holy i love virous kumar |
| 18:47.18 | robbyoconnor | he sent out a nasty email then changed his tune after he saw a KDE mentor say something |
| 18:49.45 | robbyoconnor | I really do love how he typed "u" and "r" -- makes him seem... |
| 18:51.20 | sreich | smartz |
| 18:52.05 | schumaml | yeah, these really annoy me |
| 18:53.11 | schumaml | we're pretty liberal everywhere already - you can't expect perfect spelling and grammar from anyone but a native speaker - but "u", "r", "i c" and the like? no-go. |
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| 18:53.45 | Ivanovic | schumaml: +1 |
| 18:54.08 | Ivanovic | schumaml: one of the first things we tell someone joining the wesnoth irc chans is that this should not be done |
| 18:54.24 | sreich | yes, it is very irritating to see uses of it.. |
| 18:54.34 | Ivanovic | simply because we also got many people around that are non native speakers and those things make life not easier for non native speakers |
| 18:54.52 | robbyoconnor | Ivanovic: yeh the one time I jumped in and had a message which actually was of value :) |
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| 18:55.01 | sreich | while we may be hackers, we do not use or like leetspeak and such ;) |
| 18:55.07 | robbyoconnor | needless to say that guy should taker his own advice lol |
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| 18:55.13 | robbyoconnor | it's what he'll be doing. |
| 18:55.29 | Ivanovic | leet speek is not for hackers but for script kiddies |
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| 18:55.47 | ArthurLiu | we should use peer review for posting to -discuss |
| 18:55.57 | robbyoconnor | Ivanovic: http://is.gd/bukFL |
| 18:55.59 | robbyoconnor | this thread |
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| 18:56.19 | sreich | Ivanovic: yep |
| 18:56.21 | schumaml | a community-controlled bayesian filter |
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| 18:56.46 | robbyoconnor | virous kumar was quite funny: after he was chastized by a KDE mentor -- he suddenly changed his tune but no apology |
| 18:56.54 | Ivanovic | robbyoconnor: saw the mail thread |
| 18:57.07 | robbyoconnor | it was bad. |
| 18:57.44 | schumaml | just for the records - this was not a proverb that translates poorly into English, was it? |
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| 18:59.24 | robbyoconnor | schumaml: what lol |
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| 18:59.45 | schumaml | virous kumars first mail there |
| 18:59.55 | robbyoconnor | I doubt it |
| 18:59.56 | schumaml | s/kumars/kumar's/ |
| 19:00.52 | robbyoconnor | this just sounds like... a REALLY stupid kid (I'd say freshman -- no older than 18) |
| 19:01.16 | Ivanovic | yes, might be |
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| 19:01.35 | robbyoconnor | Ivanovic: that can't be a provewrn |
| 19:01.39 | robbyoconnor | he KNEW it was wrong |
| 19:01.52 | robbyoconnor | "no need to ask apoligize for google" |
| 19:01.56 | robbyoconnor | whatever that means |
| 19:02.11 | Ivanovic | i think there is some language barrier involved |
| 19:02.26 | jkwood | Is this really appropriate for discussion here? |
| 19:02.34 | Ivanovic | that is: it *could* be some local proverb which does not translate |
| 19:02.36 | robbyoconnor | perfectly approriate |
| 19:02.40 | Ivanovic | but it most likely is not a polite one |
| 19:02.43 | robbyoconnor | approriate! |
| 19:02.47 | ArthurLiu | bleh |
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| 19:03.57 | schumaml | jkwood: not sure |
| 19:04.19 | schumaml | at the moment, it doesn't seem to interfere with other discussions |
| 19:04.38 | smtms | jkwood, it's about GSoC, unlike some other discussions |
| 19:04.39 | robbyoconnor | jkwood: it's probably impolite at best |
| 19:04.43 | schumaml | and the mail should be public for anyone who's joined here |
| 19:05.20 | jkwood | Mind, I have no idea what you're talking about, so I may be completely off base here. |
| 19:05.24 | Ivanovic | in general i think the "what should behaviour on the official mailling lists look like and what should it not" is a very valid topic for this chan |
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| 19:05.35 | robbyoconnor | smtms: pushing people off bridges is SO GSoC |
| 19:05.42 | robbyoconnor | I did it to ankitg several times in 2008 |
| 19:05.55 | robbyoconnor | :) |
| 19:06.05 | robbyoconnor | smtms: <3 not </3 |
| 19:06.08 | robbyoconnor | :) |
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| 19:07.01 | schumaml | oh for $yourfaith'sequivalentfor heaven, use the proper unicode hearts |
| 19:07.33 | smtms | schumaml, are there smileys in Unicode? |
| 19:07.38 | schumaml | yes |
| 19:07.51 | robbyoconnor | schumaml: I will *NOT* use unicode hearts |
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| 19:08.19 | schumaml | http://www.decodeunicode.org/en/miscellaneous_symbols |
| 19:08.46 | smtms | schumaml, may I get your permission to use ASCII smileys in here? |
| 19:09.27 | schumaml | you'll end up in $yourfaith'sequivalentfor hell then |
| 19:09.51 | dzhus | Compose < 3 gives ⥠|
| 19:11.45 | robbyoconnor | schumaml: I <3 you |
| 19:11.52 | robbyoconnor | I'm going to hell anyways |
| 19:13.24 | smtms | dzhus's heart looks great here |
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| 19:16.30 | mlankhorst | noon |
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| 19:17.02 | robbyoconnor | mlankhorst: hi! |
| 19:17.07 | robbyoconnor | I'm behaving like saint. |
| 19:17.08 | mlankhorst | :) |
| 19:17.28 | mlankhorst | nowai |
| 19:17.38 | robbyoconnor | except for sharply telling a guy he was an idiot for tanking for his chances on the discussion list |
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| 19:46.22 | thebolt | Evening |
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| 19:54.28 | enthus | !next |
| 19:55.01 | asmeurer | sorry, the bot's dead |
| 19:55.25 | asmeurer | !next is probably something like "Accepted student applications announced on April 26 " |
| 19:55.39 | stas | what happened to the bot? |
| 19:55.46 | yonij | Its dead |
| 19:55.56 | Ivanovic | it is reborn |
| 19:56.02 | Ivanovic | this time not as bot but as soc student |
| 19:56.24 | aghisla | \o/ |
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| 19:57.33 | asmeurer | :) |
| 19:57.34 | Ivanovic | isn't rebirth wonderful? |
| 19:57.51 | thebolt | so the bot has not reached nirvana yet.. |
| 19:58.00 | thebolt | poor soul |
| 19:58.11 | Ivanovic | thebolt: he was not friendly enough as bot |
| 19:58.19 | gigasoft1 | hi all, how much time do we have until student participations reviled ? |
| 19:58.25 | Ivanovic | thebolt: for example he stopped talking to you if you asked too many questions |
| 19:58.32 | ihalip_ | until april 26th |
| 19:58.42 | Ivanovic | how could a being like this be allowed in nirvana? |
| 19:58.51 | thebolt | Ivanovic: right |
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| 19:58.57 | Ivanovic | gigasoft1: the orgs will most likely decide earlier |
| 19:59.20 | Ivanovic | gigasoft1: but on april 26th the *final* results regarding accepted students and project proposals are announced |
| 19:59.48 | Ivanovic | (that is: projects are not allowed to tell their students in advance if they are accepted or not) |
| 20:00.25 | schumaml | well, they can't |
| 20:00.47 | gigasoft1 | ok, thanks |
| 20:00.51 | schumaml | depends on your definition of "accepted" |
| 20:01.37 | asmeurer | I would have thought that would be unambiguous |
| 20:01.55 | Catfish_Man | that was the best typo ever btw |
| 20:01.59 | Catfish_Man | "reviled" instead of "revealed" |
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| 20:03.57 | dho_plan9 | I wish the 26th would come sooner :\ |
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| 20:05.31 | schumaml | for example, there's no reason not to tell students that their proposals are among the top-n-rated ones of your org |
| 20:06.12 | asmeurer | schumaml: can the orgs reveal how many slots they are getting? |
| 20:06.13 | schumaml | after all you want to know whether they are apllying to another org, are to-rated there as well and would prefer that org |
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| 20:11.07 | stas | schumaml: actually i think if you started to chat with mentors during proposal period, they should have helped you making the best proposal possible |
| 20:11.25 | *** join/#gsoc iamsumesh (~iamsumesh@175.40.222.16) |
| 20:11.43 | schumaml | students started chatting with us before that |
| 20:11.54 | *** join/#gsoc llnz (~lee@router.harmonic.co.nz) |
| 20:11.57 | schumaml | soon after I posted the first mail to our developer list |
| 20:12.32 | stas | well thats cool, but I don't think all the orgs are so active |
| 20:13.13 | schumaml | well, a simple "there will be a GSoC again!" mail isn't that much action |
| 20:13.16 | stas | still, a good student shouldn't start talking to mentors in last 2 days before deadline imho |
| 20:14.01 | Ivanovic | stas: a student starting to talk in the last 2 days before the deadline really has to impress to be accepted |
| 20:14.03 | schumaml | ...or submit a proposal 38 secopnds before the deadline |
| 20:14.03 | stas | yeah, but there should be a part of students newcomers |
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| 20:14.25 | stas | Ivanovic: so true :) |
| 20:14.49 | schumaml | was the most recent proposal's time mentioned? |
| 20:15.11 | schumaml | I recall a 18:59:58.something |
| 20:15.52 | schumaml | that's last modified, so it may have been created some time before |
| 20:16.14 | stas | i wrote mine during first 3 days, and the second during last 3 days but that was caused by the discussions that came after I proposed my idea |
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| 20:19.14 | schumaml | that's a reasonable timeframe |
| 20:19.27 | schumaml | you were aware of the deadline, I assume? |
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| 20:21.26 | stas | schumaml: 2 weeks before it started :D |
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| 20:22.12 | stas | i knew about gsoc and that my org is going to participate, so I polished my code contributions before even announcing their participation |
| 20:24.26 | jkwood | stas: An admirable goal in some cases, but most open-source projects are more interested in communicating beforehand, then submitting code. |
| 20:25.14 | dho_plan9 | schumaml: no, that's when it was submitted |
| 20:25.16 | stas | jkwood: not if your code is a plugin or something written for the community |
| 20:25.19 | dho_plan9 | was a proposal to us |
| 20:25.33 | dho_plan9 | 2010-04-09 18:59:58.732495 |
| 20:25.52 | schumaml | ah |
| 20:26.04 | stas | cool :D |
| 20:26.09 | schumaml | dho_plan9: was it at least a good one? |
| 20:26.11 | stas | lucky guy |
| 20:26.12 | dho_plan9 | 1.278615 seconds away from no |
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| 20:27.01 | dho_plan9 | It wasn't well done, and there hasn't been any response to our comments. |
| 20:28.26 | asmeurer | that could be a melange problem |
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| 20:28.44 | asmeurer | I don't know how many students realize that they need to actually subscribe to their own proposals |
| 20:28.58 | aghisla | it will be nice to analyse if the success of an application is related to the submission timestamp |
| 20:28.59 | jsd | umm yeah, if you have trouble communicating with a potential student, imagine the issues afterwards |
| 20:29.04 | jkwood | stas: At least in our organization, we asked our applicants to get in contact with us before anything else. We get enough drive-by code as it is. |
| 20:29.16 | dho_plan9 | asmeurer: I'd expect an interested student to at least find that weird and check back. |
| 20:29.40 | asmeurer | but yeah, they should have contacted you on your mailing list anyway |
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| 20:30.26 | jkwood | Also, we'd hate for someone to waste their time on code that we're just flat out not going to use. |
| 20:30.42 | schumaml | same here |
| 20:31.06 | schumaml | especially if the code fixes a "bug" that's actually a feature |
| 20:31.21 | stas | jkwood: that was what I did too, but there was no need to ask potential mentors about the code I wrote half a year ago even before the proposals period started |
| 20:32.06 | asmeurer | schumaml: ? |
| 20:32.31 | jkwood | stas: Just realized I misread what you said earlier, disregard. |
| 20:33.09 | schumaml | asmeurer: e.g. a behaviour that works as intended, but may be perceived as "wrong" by casual users |
| 20:34.38 | stas | jkwood: what if a student writes some proof of concept code just to show off his idea is worth ? :) |
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| 20:38.09 | jkwood | stas: Depends on what it is, I suppose. If it's something we're going to reject anyway, we would have liked the time to have been spent on something we could use. |
| 20:39.31 | stas | jkwood: nope, I'm talking about a possible proposal based on an idea from existing TODO list |
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| 20:41.33 | jkwood | You can minimize the risk, but we've had concept code come in that we rejected despite the fact that it fit the description. Issues that could have been resolved by discussing it beforehand. |
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| 20:44.17 | stas | i see, anyway you are right, communiation is the main issue one can fail at gsoc |
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| 21:09.10 | dmj726_n900 | !timeline |
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| 21:09.58 | Catfish_Man | dmj726_n900: no bot |
| 21:10.15 | dmj726_n900 | oh...when did that go down? |
| 21:10.28 | Catfish_Man | a while ago |
| 21:11.30 | dmj726_n900 | any idea how many applicants there were? |
| 21:11.54 | thiago_home | thousands |
| 21:12.18 | dmj726_n900 | 2, 3, 4? |
| 21:12.31 | jkwood | No, we don't. |
| 21:12.39 | dmj726_n900 | ok |
| 21:12.52 | thiago_home | dmj726_n900: something like that, probably |
| 21:12.56 | thiago_home | last year there were 3000 |
| 21:13.04 | dmj726_n900 | I remember. |
| 21:13.12 | dzhus | wow |
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| 22:06.32 | yonij | hey....out of topic?? |
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| 22:39.44 | *** topic/#gsoc is Google Summer of Code 2010 is On! - Accepted student applications announced on April 26 - File Feature Requests & Bugs at http://bit.ly/a5tD87 - Read the FAQs: http://bit.ly/9q41Ey - Consider Hosting a GSoC Info Session: http://bit.ly/amIwdd - We need flyer and presentations translations, videos too! |
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